newsandcommentary

Feminists fizzle at lecture on boys’ education

Back story:

Feminists target lecture on boys’ education

On the evening of Monday, July 29th, Men’s Rights Edmonton hosted a lecture by Dr. James Brown discussing boys’ underachievement in education.

Last week a feminist group calling itself Feministing at ‘Rescuing Our Underachieving Sons’ made plans to crash the lecture. They started a Facebook group event by that title, with a subtitle “Tired of slut shaming sexism racism.” They claimed, among other things, to wish to confront the members of MREdmonton about the unrelated “Don’t be that girl” poster campaign, and to seek their identities.

They further noted that “This event could be a good opportunity to ask questions and engage in face-to-face discussion…We need to go into this event prepared with researched questions and facts, so I’d like to meet up with anyone interested in attending the event next the Sunday before the event at Roast. Please feel free to add discussion and ideas below. Please also share this event and invite others. Thanks everyone!”

A few days before the event, various Men’s Human Rights Activists joined the Facebook event group, including members of Men’s Rights Edmonton like Eric Duckman and Karen Straughan (who have often shown their faces in the media). These members of Men’s Rights Edmonton left comments on the invitation page to engage the feminists in the discussion the description claimed that they wanted.

The MREdmonton folks reported that a day or two before the event the invitation page seemed to disappear, but other activists, including A Voice for Men (AVfM) Managing Editor Dean Esmay, along with a number of other Men’s Human Rights Advocates, report that they were still in the group participating in discussions a full day after the event was over, indicating that the feminists actually went out of their way to block Men’s Rights Edmonton members and spokespersons. The day after the event the group appears to have been closed for real, but AVfM did capture a screen shot for posterity; click the below image to see a full screen capture of one page:

Edmonton Slutwalk Feministing

Click image for full-size screen capture!

Although a full record of the conversations was not captured, the Facebook group discussion was notable for how often factual claims made by Men’s Human Rights Activists were ignored, while instead aspersions were cast at their character with sexist bigotry and name-calling by the feminists.

Now, back-tracking a bit to see how well the plans of the feminists matched up with what happened at the lecture:

According to group event coordinator Brittany Kustra, the purpose of the counter-event had nothing to do with Dr. Brown or the topic of his lecture, but to confront the members of MREdmonton about the unrelated “Don’t be that girl” poster campaign, and to seek their identities.

This event could be a good opportunity to ask questions and engage in face-to-face discussion. I also think it would be important to attend so that we can see who is behind this group, because they refuse to show their faces to the media.

The group had seemed poised to go into the event with verbal guns blazing.

We need to go into this event prepared with researched questions and facts, so I’d like to meet up with anyone interested in attending the event next the Sunday before the event at Roast.

They didn’t even switch off the safety.

At the lecture itself, the feminist group that arrived did not do any of the things described by Kustra on the invitation page. Rather than confront the Men’s Human Rights Activists as per their stated plan, they sat silently through the filmed lecture and question/answer session. The majority of them waited until the session was over and the camera was off, and then they fired questions at Dr. Brown, challenging his assertions, after the event was over and while he was packing up to leave.

According to Eric Duckman, not a single question was asked of the Men’s Rights Edmonton members about the posters, nor did the group make good on the threat to identify them. Once it was clear that they weren’t hiding, the feminist group seemed to lose interest. As Duckman remarked, For people who hate non-consensual stuff, they only seem to want our names when we don’t give ‘em up willingly.

Feminist attendees did ask their hosts whether or not the film footage from the event would end up online. They were unconcerned when they received an affirmative answer. The lack of upset indicates that the answer was satisfactory, rather than worrisome; they want video of themselves at the lecture to be shared online in order to prove they attended the event.

That gives them their gutsy feminist activist cred. They’ve faced the MRA beast, and emerged unscathed.

The fact that the MRAs turned out to not be beastly doesn’t matter. They’ll still look good to their peers, even though they achieved nothing.

The group didn’t pursue a single one of their stated goals, and actively avoided the goal of discussing the “Don’t be that girl” posters with the MRAs. They met the one goal that really mattered to them:

They drew attention to themselves.

About VFM News and Commentary

VFM News and Commentary is part of the news service for A Voice for Men, allowing news stories, commentary and opinion pieces to be published on the site from outside sources.

Main Website
View All Posts
  • Sad Dad

    If the film ever gets online they should blur out the all the feminists in the background. LOL

  • Mickster66

    It would seem that they only excel at mindless disruption and insults, clearly, playing the victim is much easier than actually debating and coming up with solid arguments.

  • crydiego

    I actually feel for these young women. Where are the great intellectuals that sold them this empty ideology. Where are the famous, powerful, and empowered leaders that trained these girls to be bold and stand steadfast on the front lines; The leaders that would always have there backs? Where did they go when the lights got turned on? We are standing on their land, -placing flags in the soil with only open ground ahead of us and instead of an army, we are met by some kind of reluctant greeting party!

  • Francis Roy

    I was part of that conversation, and I agree that any valid point was summarily ignored. I will, for the record, congratulate the feminists on their self-restraint. Whether their self-restraint was the product of an open mind, or the avoidance of public shaming is relatively unimportant to me.

    What counts is whether they will be moved, even in the slightest degree, away from a hateful, ignorant and bigoted ideology to a more basic premise: all humans deserve to be treated with a base of dignity and respect, and that this base can only be achieved though active, open-minded, good-willed listening and a sense of integrity.

    I believe that what the feminists and the MHRM share in common is a desire for a better world where people are treated fairly and equally.

    Feminism hurts women too. When they stop making enemies or objects of men they might find that their lot in life improves as well.

    I look forward to listening to the lectures when they’re made available.

    • externalangst

      @Francis: “Feminism hurts women too”

      This is good answer to the feminist,”Patriarchy hurts men too” that claims feminism is also working for men’s rights.

      There is eminently more evidence that feminism hurts women too.

      • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

        OMG. Must have “feminism hurts women too” meme stickers NOW!

        • Francis Roy

          Wish I had added a (c) or a ™.

          Could have made a bundle!

        • Francis Roy

          “OMG. Must have “feminism hurts women too” meme stickers NOW!”

          As per your request:

          http://francisdroy.wordpress.com/2013/08/01/feminism-hurts-women-too/

          Available as RGB or CMYK. Straight up or inverted. Bumper sticker format (3.75in X 11.5in)

        • Datte Hakamura

          And T-shirts

  • The Real Peterman

    I’m glad there was no disruption of the talk proper. It’s one thing to harass men, but trying to mess up a discussion about helping children is low-down.

  • GQuan

    ^ Feminism was always a war of aggression. In no war of aggression are the front-line troops ever anything but expendable. They just never seem to notice or care, because they’ve been sold stories of honour and glory and service to the cause. And so the girls in question are convinced they’re nobly fighting for the feminist cause by confronting anything MRA – entering the battle of intellectual and moral legitimacy almost entirely unarmed, as it were – while the only people that benefit from this whole affair of feminism are the ideological leaders and powerful figures who promoted it to begin with, who are too busy enjoying their high-level careers in the legal system and the like…

    But the tide is turning. Last night, for instance, my mother (who was never feminist and is often insightful, but is not exactly “red pill”) openly announced, during a discussion of the housing/employment issues we’re all facing – that in her (correct) opinion, a large part of the initial problem was

    a) the idea pushed on young women that everyone had to go out and get jobs (and the semi-mythical “careers”),

    and

    b) the push for the breakdown of marriage and families,

    The results, of course, were that finding decent work, paying your way, achieving affordable (or even *enough*) housing and supporting the population all became far harder, and the rich and powerful benefit while the rest of us barely get by. She pretty much out-and-out laid the blame at the feet of feminism for pressuring young women into thinking they were doing something wrong by deciding they wanted to be stay-at-home parents. Note that my mother clarified that she had no interest in imposing traditional gender roles – she supports the idea of equality of option, not equality of outcome, and had no issue at all with the idea of the wife being the breadwinner – but she did say that in her opinion it’s best if one parent is raising the children while the other works, and works in a reasonable, less stressful environment. In other words: she thinks it was better that way, she sees the hardships that have resulted from the social changes, and she was quick to identify the advocacy of feminism as the culprit.

    Which I like to take as a good sign.

  • ChitownMaverick

    They were able to sit still for hours without yapping, screaming into a megaphone or pulling the fire alarm?

    Maybe they really did a lesson or two from having that last little incident go public. Perhaps they were embarrassed enough by that charade to learn some manners.

    So really we should be celebrating this, it’s a step in the right direction towards civility– the first step on the path to honest discourse.

  • Jared Spencer

    I, for one am just glad that they were able to behave long enough for the event to be conducted properly. As for their build up, perhaps the real stinkers who normally get things rolling agree lying low for a few. perhaps they are realizing that extreme behavior is welcome fodder for MRA’s who would like the rest of the community to see what unpleasant idiots they are.

  • ZimbaZumba

    The state of boys education has become so dire it is little more than the Talibanization of the West.

    Most of he same people who push for the education of girls in Afghanistan do all they can to deny it to boys in the West.

  • prince_tybalt

    Yeesh, maybe they actually read my article on how to be better protesters before blocking me from the event (not sure if they then deleted my level-headed posts discussing men’s issues as well).

  • http://www.youtube.com/girlwriteswhat Karen Straughan (aka GirlWritesWhat)

    This account is not precisely accurate. One man in the audience accused Dr. Brown of “generalizing” regarding research that shows girls develop fine motor control earlier, while boys develop gross motor control earlier. Dr. Brown replied, “I’m only citing research.” The guy demanded to know the name of the study. Brown said there were over 400 studies cited in his book, several of which shared these findings, but he didn’t know which off the top of his head. The guy replied, “You call it research. I call it generalizing.” Good grief.

    At one point in Brown’s talk, he mentioned that a girl can get away with being a Tomboy, but a boy can’t really get away with being a “girly-boy”, therefore educational materials such as books should be chosen with that in mind. In the Q&A, a group of feminists behind me asked whether we shouldn’t be trying to remove the stigma of being a girly-boy. Brown replied that yes, in a perfect world, or in some utopian future. But he is dealing with what exists now, and while he’d like to change society, he’s not prepared to sacrifice 5 year-old boys to do it.

    It was this group of women who kind of swarmed Brown at the end, while he was packing up. I heard him repeat his prior answer at least twice, but they just wouldn’t seem to accept it. So apparently to feminists, asking questions is a bludgeon, not a tool of learning.

    The ONLY person who approached any of us was a young man who introduced himself as Aidan. He approached Terry Hubensky (who is awesome) and myself, asking to know more about MRAs. Both Terry and my boyfriend thought he was on the up and up, but you know, if you don’t state some token something in the beginning, playing all your cards close to your vest…it doesn’t bode well.

    By the time we’d made our way out of the library and onto the sidewalk, Aidan had told us that he’d read the facebook page, and figured all the arguments of the MRAs were pathetic. I said, “more pathetic than ‘you have a small penis’? Because that level of rhetoric was the response of most feminists on that page.” We talked a bit about the posters, and about Eric Duckman making a rape joke on the page, which got that thread deleted.

    Eric totally owned making the joke, in response to some feminist stating that she’d been a victim of rape, and feeling that this entitled her to dictate who is allowed to say what in a discussion of rape and false allegations of rape. His attitude was, “you want to tell me what I can or can’t say, because rape? NOW I’m going to REALLY say something horrible.”

    Anyway, the gist of this is that the feminist “brave Xenas” sent a dude in a plaid shirt to do their “face-to-face” questioning. Not a single other feminist approached me, or Eric, despite the fact that you KNOW they had to know who I am and what I look like.

    Incidentally, I think it was Paul who posted my TroyMedia article (http://www.troymedia.com/2013/07/22/the-lies-rapists-and-victims-advocates-tell/) on the posters to the event page on facebook. The only feminist response to it was, “Oh, an MRA opinion. THAT’S very unbiased,” before it was deleted from the page.

    They seem SO VERY interested in asking questions.

    • Francis Roy

      Karen Straughan said:
      “At one point in Brown’s talk, he mentioned that a girl can get away with being a Tomboy, but a boy can’t really get away with being a “girly-boy”, therefore educational materials such as books should be chosen with that in mind. In the Q&A, a group of feminists behind me asked whether we shouldn’t be trying to remove the stigma of being a girly-boy. Brown replied that yes, in a perfect world, or in some utopian future. But he is dealing with what exists now, and while he’d like to change society, he’s not prepared to sacrifice 5 year-old boys to do it.”

      How do you believe the speaker might have responded to a request for clarification of the last line? Was the intent to express that shifting his/our attention to changing society globally would detract from attending to the more focused matter of boys and education in these current conditions?

    • PaddyDT

      Generalization guy really irked me. I’m not sure how he would propose doing social scientific research without statistical analysis leading to generalizations.

      What really got me, though, was the way he babbled about how the variation within genders was as large as the variation between the genders. Well, yeah – Individuals of either gender can and will fall at both extremes of the spectrum. But if the majority of boys fall on one side of the spectrum, and the majority of girls on the other, then we have ourselves a bona fide phenomenon.

  • Turbo

    I love the last comment on the screenshot from Penny. It is in feminist speak, but I think I can translate.

    —————————————————
    I want to convince you not to engage them (MRA’s).

    They will listen to you and then proceed to use logic, statistics and reason to completely dismantle your arguments. We feminists are not used to these tactics and your complete feelings of helplessness will get you upset.

    They understand that we feminists are emotional children, and when you start screaming like a wounded banshie they will take video and show other people how naive and selfish we are.

    Just ignore them, trust me, you are unarmed against their logic.

    ——————————————————

    • Francis Roy

      Yet, they are persuasive enough to turn the world to their benefit and increase the socio/politico economic harm and detriment of men.

      It is unwise to feel smugly superior or to dismiss them.

      • Turbo

        “It is unwise to feel smugly superior or to dismiss them.”

        Francis Roy, I realize you are new here, read a lot more and you will get the idea.

        You are conflating smugness with laughing at stupid.

        • Francis Roy

          Not so new :)

  • patriarchal landmine

    feminism is facing it’s own death.

    • GQuan

      Indeed it is, but it has society in a death-grip and isn’t going to let go willingly.

  • Datte Hakamura

    Considering the event wasn’t disrupted, I’d call this a win. Now on to the next.

  • Coryjolson

    Hi I’m new to to the site and have been reading posting after post. I find most of the things this site and AVFM is trying to accomplish to be very good things for society. While I’m taking my self imposed studying of the merits of the group and it positions which I find appealing. It might take me a couple of days to read and ponder all this new information. Well I just thought I should greet you all.

    • ali

      Welcome

    • onca747

      Welcome aboard.

  • MGTOW-man

    “A few days before the event, various Men’s Human Rights Activists joined the Facebook event group, including members of Men’s Rights Edmonton like Eric Duckman and Karen Straughan (who have often shown their faces in the media).”
    —Good for them/us…for crashing their party that almost no one wanted to attend. Too, expecting legitimate answers from them on the issues raised by the MHRA’s probably scared them away because they rely on hype, rhetoric, and hyperbole to further their lies and related goals, not proof, true research, and other forms of real substantiation. Fakers like them are likely flummoxed when faced with such real stuff and will have a tantrum on you for being too honest. This is exactly why they will not debate us openly for all the world to see.

    Glad to see the success of the lecture and that it will be online. Thus, we need to promote the viewing of it every chance we can get.

  • onca747

    It’s clear the only motivation of these coffee shop feminists was for the world to see them not yelling “shut the fuck up” and not looking like a bunch of loud mouth hooligans. Instead the world saw them as impotent gutless wonders. What a pitiful display, but I suppose that’s bound to happen when you use feminism’s two most feared weapons against it: Facts and logic.