Thehunt

Movie Review: The Hunt

Movie reviews are not my thing. I have never written one until now. Indeed, the last time I even saw a movie that would have inspired a review from me for its relevance to men’s rights was Sam Mendes’ 1999 masterpiece American Beauty; the story of an average American man, Lester Burnham (Kevin Spacey), who goes full bore MGHOW after dealing with a bitch of a wife and watching an 18 year old young man tell his boss to fuck off. Of course, the story is not just that simple, but the movie conveyed all the subtlety and nuance required to carry the MGTOW message with power and sensitivity.

In one way it’s a shame I never wrote a review. It was before I was blogging. In another way it is just as well. Unfortunately Mendes, erstwhile sperm donor for sociopath broodmare Kate Winslet, is now on record supporting her life as an overdressed welfare whore.

I was fortunate, however, to have just watched a 2012 production of the Danish film, The Hunt (Jagten), and cannot resist sharing it with readers with glowing recommendation.

The film, directed by Thomas Vinterberg, stars Mads Mikkelsen as Lucas, a divorced father who is falsely accused of sexually abusing children at the kindergarten where he works as a teacher. The story begins with Lucas contending with an alienating ex-wife who is using the family court system to undermine his relationship with his teen-age son. He takes refuge from his ongoing grief with healthy, loving relationships with the school’s children. From this point on you become aware that the makers of this film are going to take off the gloves and tell this story with gritty, often gut-wrenching realism.

It is pointless for me to issue spoiler alerts here. This is a brutal story with no surprises, at least not for those who have ingested a red pill. Lucas is accused by a vindictive child, Klara (Annika Wedderkopp), after he gently rejects her crush on him. She parrots a statement she heard from her brother about an erect penis, points the finger at Lucas, claiming he exposed himself to her, and everyone goes fucking crazy. It immediately sends his life into a tailspin and turns his community into something at least as monstrous as child predators.

The town mob gets a lot of inspiration from the school headmistress, Grethe (Sussie Wold), who conducts a shallow and meaningless interview of an instigating child,  and immediately goes nuclear. She fires Lucas and informs the authorities, She also tells all parents of the school children about the danger that he has more than one victim, advising them all to be on the lookout for symptoms of sexual abuse, like headaches and bedwetting. Grethe repeatedly reminds fellow characters and viewers alike that “children don’t lie” about these things, even as the makers of this movie remind us that they most certainly do.

Lucas is arrested, and is later cleared of charges, but not before the community turns vicious. His dog is killed, he is beaten by employees of a grocery store for trying to buy food there and his ex-wife seizes on the charges against him to try to drive a permanent wedge between him and his son.

There is very little in this film on the legal process over the allegation. For those interested there is an adequate treatment of the prosecutorial malfeasance often involved in these cases in the 1995 American TV Movie, Indictment: The McMartin Trial. It is the true story of the notorious McMartin Preschool case in California, the hysteria from which resulted in the longest, most expensive (and completely unnecessary) criminal trial in American history.

What The Hunt (as in Witch), lacked in addressing the criminal justice system, it more than made up for with its deft treatment of the interpersonal tragedy and society’s instantaneously vengeful mentality in the wake of sexual allegations against men.

A brilliant screenplay (Tobias Lindholm, Thomas Vinterberg) helped Mikkelsen deliver a flawless performance as a man first bewildered and then sinking into the morbid insanity of his circumstances; ultimately fighting back as the world around him turns increasingly hostile and dangerous.

The narrative is utterly convincing and realistic, from Klara’s mother, Agnes (Anne Louise Hassing), disregarding and suppressing her daughter’s admission that she made the story up, to the portrayal of men in the story, who were the constant deliverers of proxy violence against Lucas, but who were also, in much smaller numbers (including his son), the only ones who stayed loyal to him as he worked to defend his name. Central to the story is Klara’s father, Theo, whose slow, compelling realization that Lucas is innocent is skillfully played by Thomas Bo Larsen.

The staff of the kindergarten (where Lucas was the only male employee) was the most histrionic and reckless in stoking the fires of revenge in the community, telling themselves, each other and anyone else who would listen that every child at the school with a headache is probably one of Lucas’ victims.

This is where the movie shines. It is a remarkable portrayal to two very human maladies at once. The first is the story’s real victim, Lucas, who very nearly succumbs as the accusation rips a chasm in his life. And, even as the lie takes its toll on him personally, it also spreads like a cancer through the entire community, obliterating its collective capacity for reason; fostering incredible heartlessness and evil in otherwise decent people, and worsening the evil already in residence in others.

It is the human instinct to protect children, especially females, and how mindlessly destructive that instinct can be, that is the real story here.

And, sadly, we are reminded by the movie’s makers that the truth, no matter how simple or obvious, will not remedy the consequences of this particular brand of lie. In this movie, just as it is in real life, Lucas will never be free of the anchor chain that any female can wrap around a man’s neck. There will never be a day when his nightmare really ends. He will always be a marked man.

On an even more somber note, this story is a reminder of the treacherous path we are now on, thanks to the toxic alliance of feminism and traditionalism. Due process of law is one of man’s most noble inventions. It is the guardian that stands watch between human beings and their tendency to destroy each other – and themselves. Feminists seek to destroy that sacred failsafe against human fallibility, and traditionalists take marching orders to destroy accused men as though they were issued directly from the mouth of God.

I have never seen that more clearly portrayed than in The Hunt. This is a must-see movie.

Editor’s note: This article is also available in Romanian.

About Paul Elam

Paul Elam is the founder and publisher of A Voice for Men, the founder of A Voice for Men Radio, the AVfM YouTube Channel, and appears weekly on AVFM Intelligence Report, Going Mental with Dr. Tara Palmatier and monthly on MANstream Media with Warren Farrell and Tom Golden.

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  • donzaloog

    That movie sounds powerful. I’m gonna have to check it out.

    • farkennel

      I disagree with your opinion of “american beauty”.The marine was a tough dude.The writers made him a closet homosexual.In my opinion the writers proved their cowardice.They had the chance to see him as a fellow that didnt accept homosexuals.When it come to the crunch…he turned out to be just what the homosexual lobby would say”see,I told you so”.I found the movie to be complete opportunistic homosexual proof that given the chance,we are all that way inclined.

  • Laddition

    I watched the film last year and did find it realistic, that’s why I didn’t particularly like it to be honest. I completely empathised with the guy’s situation, but he was just so passive, even those with an inkling that wrongs were being done did nothing about it (afair). I’d have preferred an ending written by Paul where Mads gets all FTSU on their utterly PC, utterly worthless arses.

    Just an opinion, I don’t regret watching it at all, but I’d have preferred something that sent more men to the MRA movement with fire in their bellies over the real-life level of injustice.

    I recently watched American Dream for the first time, liked that (sort of) a lot. Not one likeable character (although Spacey was really getting there). Did it have to end like that? (that is not a spoiler, that is clear from the first moments of the film)

    • Kimski

      Imagine being a complete and absolute blue piller, never questioning your place in the world, and having done everything society and women expected of you your entire life, and then come face to face with hatred on this scale, from people you KNOW and you thought knew you, too?
      Wouldn’t that sort of move the definition of the term ‘shellshocked’ unto a whole new level, perhaps?

      I watched American Beauty only last week, also for the first time. I usually stay away from movies like those out of principle, but were really surprised by this one.

      But, just like you, I hated the ending and kept hoping that there would be some kind of ‘resurrection-moment’, right up to the final scene.

      Alas, the homophobic neighbor didn’t make a mistake in the rain and killed the wife, so Lester Burnam could go on selling hamburgers, being happy with the simple things in life, and raising his girl alone.
      Well, I guess you can’t win them all. ;)

      • Laddition

        Agree with all you say!

        Like your alternative ending too…much better

      • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

        I thought the ending was one of the most powerful things about the movie. I could not see it ending any other way. The narrative was made convincing by the fact that the moment Lester broke away from the mainstream, everyone starting to converge toward killing him. His daughter joked about killing him. His wife had a gun and was thinking about it. I was not 100 percent sure who did it until they showed Frank taking off the bloody clothes.

        The world hates men who don’t toe the line.

        • Kimski

          I agree, but my problem was more that it ALWAYS seems to end like that, with every male character I identify with.
          I really liked the character Lester Burnham, but would have enjoyed the ending so much more, had he actually gotten out of the whole ordeal alive.
          I’m not sure if that makes me a softie or a vindictive SOB.
          Probably a bit of both.

          • J Galt

            Isn’t the point of the story and it’s ending to keep you in your place, to keep all of us in our place. Isn’t there a Lester Burnham whispering to all of us even now. What I liked about Lester is he dispensed his own justice by recreating himself as authentic.

          • Laddition

            I watched ‘Young Adult’ last night.

            http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1625346

            Mavis Gary, once the high school ‘It Girl’, now an alcoholic divorcée who writes a soon to be canceled young adult fiction series, makes the decision to return to her childhood home in Minnesota. There she embarks on a plan to win back her former sweetheart, Buddy. The fact that Buddy is now married with a baby doesn’t dissuade her. Along the way, she forms a bond with Matt Freehauf, another former classmate, who has been left disabled by a beating he took from a bunch of jocks.

            Quite a human film about a woman hitting the wall (or starting too) as a childless divorced single woman and having a midlife crisis. She finds that all the social power that she used to command has gone. The ending wasn’t much of an ending, but it was a pretty gritty view into the life of an amoral woman hitting reality hard. It’s on netflix US currently.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      ” but he was just so passive, even those with an inkling that wrongs were being done did nothing about it”

      As someone who was first hand witness of a child accusation witch hunt, let me assure you, being accepting and passive is the only hope any accused man has of ever seeing light of day outside a prison for the rest of his life.

      Picture yourself a hooked fish flopping and fighting for your life in the bottom of a boat with the one who hooked and reeled you in watching on with absolute perverse pleasure. The more fight you put up the more “empowerment” they get from being the one to bring you down.

      The hooked fish analogy ends there, because in a court of law, the fish who passively accept their fate are the “catch and release” type, while those who fight are the too-dangerous-to-society life in prison type.

      Having grown up with a truly evil man-hating histrionic mother, my husband immediately went into passive acceptance mode and tried to guide our son, the falsely accused, to do the same.

      I, on the other hand, lashed out and fought back. I kept speaking out the truth even when told if I didn’t shut up they would punish my son more harshly – which is exactly what they did.

      I contacted every human being I knew, begging them to step forward and tell the truth as well – but they backed off in fear and even sided with the false accuser because it is social suicide to go against a child abuse accusation.

      My son was punished harshly because of my actions. The only thing that saved him from prison was his father, passively agreeing with them, passively going along with them – oh, my, how they LOVED his father and HATED me!

      For years afterward I nursed seething anger and resentment toward my husband for seemingly “agreeing” with them, for going along with them – for “letting” them do what they did to our son, even while dimly aware my husband’s actions were what saved our son. It took YEARS to accept the “wrong” thing was the right thing to do, and still causes me to choke with anger all these years later.

      You have no idea what this beast is until you are faced with it. I still can’t believe something like this could happen. I still ask myself why.

      • Laddition

        I understand both your pain and rage.

      • Redfield

        I feel very much for you, life is a process of forgiveness …. If you are given the opportunity to forgive it is far better to take it ….

    • http://sportsdroppingsusa.blogspot.com Ty Henry

      What makes the movie hit on the most visceral level IS the main character’s reaction. Men internalize their own disposability.

      • Laddition

        I only said that I didn’t like it, didn’t say it wasn’t realistic. I’m surprised that more men don’t explode, but then I don’t trust the media to report honestly about what happens, let alone the reasons behind what happens.

  • http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com Robert St. Estephe

    The McMartin case was the most well-known of many of its kind.

    Here is the case that started the 1800s-1990s witch-hunt:

    Jordan: A Middle American Nightmare

    http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/04/jordan-middle-american-nightmare.html

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      During the high profile McMartin preschool trials a similar case was being tried in Tacoma. Keri Sortland and his wife were accused by 14 children of sexual abuse.

      We found out afterward the highly recommended attorney we hired for my son was the same attorney who succeeded in winning TWO acquittals for the Sortlands.

      We had high hopes and great expectations after firing the Public Defenders who only seemed interested in doing damage control rather than trying to prove our son’s innocence.

      He talked at length about his abilities to win these type cases, no problem, no problem, until AFTER we deposited our life’s savings into his account – then it was ” plea bargain this, you can’t “win” these cases that.

      We had encountered “you’ll never get an acquittal in Seattle” time after time after time, “There are powerful feminist groups that will see to it you don’t win”.

      Which is what made an anti-feminist out of ‘ol 100% here – they DID have actual women’s groups sitting in on hearings to sway the Judges toward convictions.

      After much horrible wrangling my son was pretty much forced to accept a plea bargain for no jail time – then double crossed and jailed anyway.

      While waiting around for my son to be released from jail, his attorney again launched into his Keri Sortland story…only this time he “remembered” to include the ending – the Halloween night following the acquittal, Mrs. Sortland heard her husband answer the doorbell, crying out “I didn’t do it! I didn’t do it!” just before he was shot to death.

      Even though he obviously knew his assailant, the shooter was never found.

      I think attorneys are too scared to do anything other than just shoot for damage control – no matter how innocent a person is is doesn’t matter. “To be accused is to be guilty” is good enough reason to punish an innocent person.

      That’s how “Justice” rolls in Seattle.

      • Justice4all

        I’m so sorry to hear how your experience with attorney’s in Seattle went. I would agree that most attorneys take the path of least resistance when it comes to the manner in which they handle cases like yours and often advise taking the best plea deal being offered. Notwithstanding all of that, I would encourage you to read Until Proven Innocent, an outstanding account about the three male Duke Lacrosse players/students who were falsely accused and actually framed of rape. The book goes into great detail in regard to how their defense team handled their case. In particular, read about how attorney Joe Cheshire went after the DA, the police, the idiot administrators at Duke and the press at large. He did not mince words nor would he back down from demanding justice for his client. There are some attorney heroes like Mr. Cheshire out there, but they are way too few in numbers in my opinion. Thank you for sharing your story with all of us and I hope your son and your family continues to heal.

        • OneHundredPercentCotton

          The Duke LaCrosse case cost those parents 5 MILLION DOLLARS to buy their son’s innocence.

          If the Duke LaCrosse players hadn’t had the $$$$ necessary, they would all be in prison right now, praying for acceptance by The Innocence Project.

          This is The Worst thing for anyone to ever be accused of. The Worst. Not even murder sends people over the edge of sanity like an accusation of this sort does.

          At least with murder there has to be a body or missing person – SOME evidence a crime actually took place.

          With a child accusation, literally ANYTHING goes, sanity being the first to fly out the window.

          • sadman365

            And that’s exactly why I believe false rape accusation is worse than rape. Serial murderers and drug dealers (who are poisoning millions of people) enjoy a hero-like status in prisons while men and even BOYS are getting beaten and KILLED -inside prisons or outside- for merely being accused of rape (proven or not).

  • leonardchurch

    I just watched this. Literally finished it minutes ago.

    When people talk of horror films the sort of thing that comes to mind are films like insidious, paranormal activity, lesbian vampire slayers (just kidding) and the countless zombie flicks that have begun popping up.

    To me, horror has a different face. Hollywood’s glamorous stars can never achieve the feat of leaving me quaking in my bed. Before now, only one thing has done that for me before now. A recurring dream that leaves me confused, disoriented and afraid. Fear can not be created with a glossy finish. Horror is rough around the edges. Horror has a familiar face. Horror is something that you see and know you are not safe from.

    I know that I will think of this tonight. I’ll stare at the ceiling thinking of just how easily someone with nothing but love in their heart can be condemned and hunted like a beast.

    Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
    Fury has no soldiers like the men that worship her.

    Fear has no face like a hunted animal.
    Society has no kindness when fury is stirred.

    And her lies in her innocence trump even her truths.

  • farkennel

    It surprises me that the feminazi scum allowed this movie to be shown in the U.S. My guess is that if it gets a large audience,the feminazis and manginas will say “the true victims are those children who wont come forward for fear of being accused of lying”,as opposed to the ACTUAL true victim,the man who has his life utterly ripped to shreds by a vindictive cunt who knows that even if her horrific lie is found out she will never be held legally accountable for her appalling actions.

    • sadman365

      And yet, we SUPPOSEDLY live in a “patriarchal” society that’s only goal is to serves men’s interests !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Redfield

    About six years ago my ex and I had what we called “settlement” of our lives and resources! She got far more than me from my life’s work out of the process …

    Three months earlier (before settlement) ….

    I had taken my children and a few of their friends ice skating, I was half way thru a degree (plenty of reading) and had a mountain of paper work from my solicitor (lawyer) … I sat in the seating passively watching my kids and their friends, catching up on my reading …
    I came across a letter forwarded from the ex’s solicitor … The last paragraph read “my client wishes to know why your client is sleeping with our clients daughters!” I rang my solicitor immediately …. His calm response was “was wondering when I would get your call, don’t worry mate they all do that … “ Well I did worry … Within a day my four children were visiting a government agency playing with dolls and being assessed by a government psychiatrist! I had taken the letter with me, and after two and a half hours the children were with me being driven home, my oldest daughter broke the silence by saying “dad what did mum do?”

    Fast forward three months … I invited the ex over for dinner, I had sent divorce papers for her to sign six weeks earlier, but she seemed to be offended that I would want to do this??? After my youngest two went to bed I presented the ex with the letter and had a family reading of it in front of the two older children … She denied any knowledge of the accusations and said her solicitors were not acting on her behalf … Then I pulled out the divorce papers and handed her a pen without speaking further … To this day I turn side on when hugging my children, I am less inclined to touch another human in a greeting or farewell … I never got written confirmation from the government department that the children had not been sexually abused and they were never taken from me … this is the disgusting outcome from a false accusation!

    She went thermo nuclear in a conventional war to get what she wanted, and she got it and more ….

  • Justice4all

    Paul – for a guy that’s not accustomed to writing movie reviews I would say you’ve done yourself proud. One thing that really drives me crazy though is this sites addiction to Red Pill / Blue Pill coded acronym-filled nonsense. I don’t know what MGHOW or MGTOW stand for nor will I “Google” it to find out. If you want to pull more people like myself into the men’s rights cause than start using plain English for the rest of us unless you want to only keep your message within a very narrow scope. Just a suggestion but leave the code words to the CIA and special forces, not the average reader. Those that want to talk in code can run over to Reddit which is known for that b/s.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam
    • Astrokid

      If you want to pull more people like myself into the men’s rights cause than start using plain English for the rest of us unless you want to only keep your message within a very narrow scope

      Its actually the other way round.
      The MRM leaders already bust their ass enough. Its upto people to understand whats going on in the world, up their game and put in the requisite effort. The onus is on you.
      Rest assured that Paul isnt trying to reach the commoner. The MRM has already spent a few decades doing that, getting nowhere.

      • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

        Bulls-eye. That is precisely the point. Since starting AVFM five years ago I have never, ever done anything to promote integration into the mainstream or to “pull more people” into the movement. As a mainstay that is a foolish approach.

        The point of the AVFM plan for growth is to simply reach people who don’t need to be sold. They are out there by the millions, and we are indeed starting to reach them. If they are already sold on the necessity, either through personal observation or their unfortunate personal experience, then it only remains to be answered whether they have the passion for the subject to learn to integrate.

        If they won’t bother with the jargon (and all subcultures have jargon) then they won’t be part of the movement, at least here. And I would argue that someone who will not bother to ask or to Google a term to learn the vernacular of a group, does not really seek to belong in the first place. I don’t begrudge any of them that, but I will be damned if I will abandon terms and concept that are years in development simply because someone is not interested enough in what we do to learn something new.

        What good would that do anyway?

        • MGTOW-man

          “As a mainstay that is a foolish approach. ”

          —I understand part of your argument here, but can you elaborate on how you think actively trying to convince others is a “foolish” approach? I am not saying it isn’t, or challenging you in any way. Just want to know how you surmise.

          As you might know already, I think we should be doing all we can, turning over every stone, barring nothing but violence, in our search for justice,

          In spite of your difference here, I still think you have the best thing going for our movement. Perhaps others who want to catapult us into the mainstream to try and convince borderline “lurkers” will do just that. But AVfM is the best thing going for men and boys as it is now. And I bet you would not have a problem if some other endeavor upstaged AVfM… especially if it really benefits men and boys better.

          (Thank you for all you have done and will continue to do).

          …So, why would it be foolish to try and teach/convince nonbelievers.

          Even the women had to be convinced by feminism—which took a very long time. In my view, we are wasting precious time doing what is a must. Honestly and constructively, why am wrong?

          • MGTOW-man

            Just as I figured…***crickets*** where there should be trumpets.

            I am very disillusioned rigth now…not a good way to enter the new year.

          • Fredrik

            The question is not, “What should Paul do?” That’s Paul’s business.

            The question is not, “What should AVFM do?” We are all AVFM.

            The question that matters is, “What should I do?” I have big plans for 2014, and so can you.

      • MGTOW-man

        But the MRM hasn’t historically had the voice Dr. Elam has and gives us. Now that the “infrastructure” for us is here…. (not for long…we had better be prepared, for mass-censorship is coming for the MHRM).

        MY personal opinion which is not very much in the great scheme of things is that there will not be enough people who naturally gravitate our way. Plus, the masses are being dumbed-down by the very culprits we oppose.

        Shouldn’t we play their game? They are trying to brainwash—and are doing an “impressive” job at accomplishment. . Look at it this way, if we used that weapon too, but instead with TRUTH as not only our vehicle but the delivery artillery AND the ammo as well, then it, after all, isn’t brainwashing. But sometimes, with the way truth is inconvenient, don’t we have to “open peoples heads and pour it in?” How else are we going to get enough people to help us?—the only way to get things changed.

        True, prominent MRA’s have worked their butts off already. I get that point. We all are indebted to them and I will always have nothing but thanks for them. Perhaps newcomers can take it to another level?

    • sadman365

      I feel sorry for people like you. If you won’t bother to even find out what MGTOW means, I have little hope for you that you’d care to know what feminism -IN REALITY- is all about or what is being done to men and boys. The problem with most men is they’re tooooooooo lazy to put in even the slightest effort to learn the truth and instead they just listen to what the feminists or the feminist-controlled government tell them….

      Just keep your head buried in the sand, but don’t start crying later when shit comes your way….

      • Justice4all

        You need not for sorry for me and your remarks are a clear example of why our movement is so marginalized. Instead of welcoming a person like myself, you rush to judgment based on a few words and turn your back to an ally. Certainly you are free to do so but how does that help the cause? If you think that I am not well versed than you are a fool. I have read and carefully studied the writings of virtually every contributor that posts on AvFM along with studying articles, op-eds and books on the subject written by CH Sommers, Cathy Young, Warren Farrell, KC Johnson, Judith Grossman, Mike Adams, Stephen Henrick, etc… (I could go on ad nauseum but most readers will get the message). Although I need not explain my background, experiences, reasoning or credentials I can assure you that I am actively engaged in the MHRM (as much as I personally oppose using acronyms I will do so here) and am bringing this message to a new generation of future MHRM activists. I have battled and continue to do so for men’s rights on a daily basis, have dedicated a website to this fight, have a following on Twitter and so forth. You clearly missed the point of my message which others have not which essentially boils down to that of strategic direction and tactics used to gain a following. Paul’s argument is essentially to stay away from the mainstream, that’s his philosophy and I respect him for that but that doesn’t mean that I believe that to be the most effective manner in which to grow the movement. Our “rollup-your-sleeves and jump into the fray” street-level experience indicates that people like Astrokid are wrong when they state that reaching the commoner is ineffective, as we are seeing firsthand that many are disenfranchised and are looking for a place to call home in regard to men’s rights issues. Paul is incorrect when he states that he “…that someone who will not bother to ask or to Google a term to learn the vernacular of a group, does not really seek to belong in the first place.” Why? Because I won’t speak in code-worded “vernacular” too? That kind of reasoning is beyond silly. I would hope that belonging doesn’t mean blind acceptance of every view posited or being denied the ability to openly question the tactics used to bring awareness to the cause. We are working our @ss off to champion the MHRM cause in our little corner of the world and will continue to do so with or without your condescending approval, thank you very much. Although my remarks may be taken the wrong way on this post, our group is proud of the collaborative approach we take with other MHRM/MRA’s. Now please remind me (and our group) who’s head is buried in the sand again?

        • OneHundredPercentCotton

          With “advocates” like you on “our” side…seriously,who needs enemies?

          This is a grass roots movement – not a hot house fragile orchid tending movement.

          Grass roots can grow through the cracks in a sidewalk or dark basement, and anything that wants to thrive and survive that badly – will.

          Now please go back to oooohing and ahhhing over your fragile flowers.

          For every weed that’s pulled – two more will grow in it’s place. That’s the law of nature.

          • Justice4all

            What a well constructed and sensitive response, thank you. I and my fragile flowers feel better already. Speaking of weed, you may want to partake a little of that yourself and chill out. Then you too can ooh and ahh with the rest of us real activists.

          • Justice4all

            What a well constructed and sensitive response, thank you. I and my fragile flowers feel better already. Speaking of weed, you may want to partake a little of that yourself and chill out. Then you too can ooh and ahh with the rest of us real activists.

        • Astrokid

          Our “rollup-your-sleeves and jump into the fray” street-level experience indicates that people like Astrokid are wrong when they state that reaching the commoner is ineffective, as we are seeing firsthand that many are disenfranchised and are looking for a place to call home in regard to men’s rights issues.

          Dude.. I am not objecting to SOMEBODY wanting to reach the commoner. I am a donor to organizations like SAVEservices, NCFM, J4MB and a couple of documentary makers in both West & East who attempt to reach the commoner. You want to do something for the MRM, go ahead.
          I am ALL for pluralist approach to activism. In fact, I am part of the Atheist movement also where a similar debate played out several years ago.. and in the end no faction won out and both factions continue to work as before and have different audiences in mind.

          I have chosen a path that best suits my temperament and is a lot better and efficient use of my energies.. and thats the AVFM way. One reach-commoner approach is currently being undertaken by Fidelbogen.
          http://counterfem.blogspot.com/2013/12/coalition-js38-blog.html
          You dont see me go there and tell him he should be doing things differently, esp something as common as jargon usage.

          What we get here regularly are people who keep telling us “you are doing it the wrong way”. There’s this dude with pseudonym “86” who keeps posting on reddit that AVFM should structure its articles better, do better editing etc. I asked him why he doesnt lead by example.. i.e
          1) he fund professional tutorials for the writers/editors here, OR
          2) he do the better writing himself, and submit the articles for publishing.

          In short, the leaders here are already running at full steam.. and its a miracle that they are able to sustain such an operation. Unless someone has already walked in their shoes, its unfair to ask them to do more. If you want to see change, BE the change and lead by example.
          for eg if you think jargon usage at AVFM is a problem, do the legwork and collect the numbers of unintuitive jargon from sample articles. Show that it is disproportionate when contrasted to other subcultures. Show how the problem can be solved.

          • Justice4all

            I’m pretty sure that I never asked anyone from AvFM to do more on any of my previous postings. All I suggested was to do away with the coded jargon but apparently that was met with considerable skepticism which is actually kind of funny considering how much work and energy many of us put into advancing men’s rights. But dude, reread your original posting above and it appears that you were in fact commenting on the ineffectiveness of targeting the commoner, otherwise how do you explain the statement “the MRM has already spent a few decades doing that, getting nowhere.” In the end, people tend to gravitate to the message (and messenger) that they believe is aligned to suit their own unique purpose. I’m not suggesting that anyone here is “doing it wrong”, I’m suggesting that there is a broader audience that is receptive to the MHRM cause and that speaking plainly may be a worthwhile endeavor to connect with that base. There are too many armchair quarterback’s who wallow in their bitterness and anger and think that their personal experience is the only pain-filled story worth talking about. It’s going to take all of us pulling in the same direction if we want to effect change as opposed to bashing each other over the head, especially about something as trivial as jargon.

          • Astrokid

            But dude, reread your original posting above and it appears that you were in fact commenting on the ineffectiveness of targeting the commoner, otherwise how do you explain the statement “the MRM has already spent a few decades doing that, getting nowhere.”

            I stand by the statement about the MRM. Its historically been largely ineffective. Thats what has given rise to the Malcolm X version of today.
            There are NUMEROUS articles on this site as to why..
            1) Look up Paul’s 40+ minute interview with Lionel Goodman, where he explains towards the end how male and female psychology works. why the commoner was VERY receptive to female pain when 2nd wave feminism took off. but its not receptive to male pain
            2) Check out ”The X%. Why feminism worked..’ ‘ which explains the ‘gender laws’ and State exploitation of the psychology.

            I still believe that reaching the common man is very difficult. The returns are VERY low. I have already tried it, and I have moved on. But I financially support some orgs who want to do it. WHY?
            1) because they are finding it very difficult to raise money. In short, a lot of people who talk the talk about reaching commoners, wont walk the walk.
            2) Current attempts at reaching the commoner are different from the past, because of the Internet.

            All I suggested was to do away with the coded jargon but apparently that was met with considerable skepticism which is actually kind of funny considering how much work and energy many of us put into advancing men’s rights…
            It’s going to take all of us pulling in the same direction if we want to effect change as opposed to bashing each other over the head, especially about something as trivial as jargon

            Oh.. jargon is trivial now. It wasnt trivial before LOL. And yeah.. you didnt ask AVFM to do more on any of your previous postings.

            One thing that really drives me crazy though is this sites addiction to Red Pill / Blue Pill coded acronym-filled nonsense. I don’t know what MGHOW or MGTOW stand for nor will I “Google” it to find out. If you want to pull more people like myself into the men’s rights cause than start using plain English for the rest of us unless you want to only keep your message within a very narrow scope

            Chill bro. Did you find out what MGTOW is yet? Read up the intro, and the ‘levels of MGTOW’ here
            http://www.mgtow.com/

          • MGTOW-man

            “It’s going to take all of us pulling in the same direction if we want to effect change as opposed to bashing each other over the head,” (quoted from justice4all)

            —The infighting has to stop, the childish avoidance and ignoring of “lesser” activists and posting commenters (who might be :irritations to the “elite”‘) has to stop. The cliquishness has to stop. The competition bewteen us— who may differ on some terms but are on the same overall side— has to stop. We must unite. We must galvanize. And we must change the rest…the duped, the brainwashed, the stupid, the wrong—the masses! They simply will not come to us in numbers that will make a difference.

            I do believe however, that the leaders who contribute soooo much already are right to let others take the reigns…by brancing out on their own. I will always be grateful and indebted to my heroes who started this site and maintain it.

            But I am like you…I want more. I want to win. I want to know why it is “foolish” to try and be more proactive in the mainstream media. We men have NEVER had the voice we do now.(last 5 years or so). If we do not use it wisely, to make the biggest bang we can, we will be very sorry!!

            I’d rather win, and if we lose, know I did everything I could to win. WE must find this out on the other side of having tried…turning over every stone, barring nothing but violence in our quest for recognition and justice.

            Multitasking is a gross uderstatement!!

            I am not capable of this on my own for I do not have the skills, the patience, or the support. Nor do I genuinely have time unless I revamp my entire life. But I would really like to convince others who have this affinity and the time and resources, to get louder, a LOT LOUDER!

            We won’t win ANYTHING by wispering. I love this site more than any other. But I want the MHRM to grow exponentially in only a matter of months…not decades, finally…when it is too late.

  • MGTOW-man

    I would like to see more movie reviews on AVfM.

    I am not a movie buff largely because of the media slant. So without this slant (mostly) “The Hunt” would be refreshing to see for reasons other than the obvious. But movies are huge. People spend gargantuan amounts of time enthralled. Much of the brainwashing going on is via movies. Thus, as a tool, turning over every stone in our fight, if there is anyone out there who watches a lot of movies, who wants to be a critic—especially in the context we espouse, It would be a great service to our movement for those to be active in this arena.

  • crydiego

    For those that present all these different directions and approaches; start a blog of facebook page. You have some valid points and the more people speaking out, the better for all.

    • MGTOW-man

      I agree. It is up to us newcomers to take things to another level. On this note, I have often wondered why AVfM or any of its admin staff (or other interested readers with the scope of influence) haven’t organized a single march, let alone an organized series of them. Not everyone, but lot of people will participate, more will join in, and a plethora of others will get their very first dose of blue pill education and hopefully the antidote to feminism’s toxicity.

      Precious time is wasting. We must spend this time better. Before we know it, another hair-brained feminist “help” for women only/male punishment will bowl us over. We need to head these things off. Prevention is better than reaction.

      It is understandable that in time the mainstream etc will come to us. When they do, we win in the long run. But we can win earlier…at least on some points. We have never had the voice we have now. It is unrealistic to think that the MRM-of-past had a real fair shake at changing things then without putting it in this context. Said another way, the feminists must be laughing because we have exhausted the chance and won’t embrace a new one now that we have a vehicle for change. Yep, they will come to us alright, real fast too!@#$%^&*!!!!!—with their bellies hurting from laughing waaay too hard.

      Keeping them on the defensive making them spend their money that way is the undermining that I agree with Angry Harry that we need to be doing AMAP.

      I am still waiting on an answer as to why it is “foolish” to jump start something more than the status quo. If the pattern continues with what I have experienced so far here, I will never get an answer…not even a link.

      But if only a link can be sent, keep it.

      I want warm constructive human involvement which is precisely why I came here. Responding to us little nobodies only when one can scold, mock, or ostracize, with no building up, no inclusiveness, no cohesion, no unity, no encouragement…no sense of warmth whatsoever… is worst than just keeping quiet. But keeping quiet is a betrayal.

      Even if our formidable leadership (heroes I am proud of) understandably haven’t the energy or desire to ‘start over”, then why not some of the newer people who possess the affinity, the means, the scope of influence, the time, the money, the desire?

      If I (little ole nobody me) were to try to get a march started in a prominent city of America, the only ones to join me would be the crickets. Even if a march is the right and timely thing, all because I speak too harshly about the commonsensical and stereotypical but natural behaviors of men and women and why we are in this mess…(and related opinions/observations of mine) people will clique-up, ignore me, brown-nose the others, and the worst thing that could happen would result.

      Similarly, because I think a vote for Hillary Clinton or for a more democratic senate/house by someone claiming to be a MHRA is the stupidest thing a mens advocate/activist could do, I will be marginalized. Yet no one will come forward to explain why, with the powers-that-be already in place behind the scenes that REALLY control our government and economics, why it wouldn’t be worse if Hillary has both houses of congress at her fingertips. Voting for feminists or the proud waters that have housed them is what is foolish and stupid. Why, at the very least, we can stop a feminist in her tracks. That is enough to NOT VOTE FOR HILLARY!@#$%^&* duuuh!

      We must stop the infighting. Who cares if we all agree on every point. Who cares is some of us are big, with the rest of us being little nobody pee-ons? The only real point is that we are on the same side…HELLO!?…regardless of why! We should maximize this effect, not diminish it with silence and other non-cohesive behaviors.

      It is this isolation, this avoiding, this mockery, this competition, this cliquishness, this treatment of lesser and lowly “self-described” activists, this alienation, this brick wall we hit when all we want is to be included…(thus generating more excitement and motivation)…a compounding effect… is what is disappointing me. Surely, we can do better than this?!!

  • jens

    Makes you proud to be Danish. This movie could not have been made in Sweden.