Ice Cream

Ben and Jerry’s is a radical hate group

Trigger Warning: If you have below average intelligence, if you are an emotional reasoner, if you think holding a woman accountable for her behavior is a form of domestic violence, and/or if you are a radical feminist, please be advised that this is a work of satire. And, no, satire does not have anything to do with Satan or satanic cults and the sexual abuse of children.

With all the hullaballoo over the SPLC 2011 “Intelligence” Report on emerging hate groups, we failed to notice that one of the most nefarious men’s groups was omitted from the report: Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, the purveyors of Ben and Jerry’s ice cream. It boggles the mind how someone who calls himself Manboobz, the SPLC’s very own Deep Throat, could have made such a glaring oversight. [1]

The Evidence

Ben and Jerry’s is an emerging hate group. I know this is true because I read a comment on the Internet about men who like ice cream. Here’s the smoking gun:

You like ice cream? Well, ice cream is dairy. Dairy comes from a cow. Cows are female bovine. Female bovine put a lot of work into making the blessed milk* for their children. Then what do YOU do, you patriarchal pig? You not only take the milk not intended for your species, you mix it with eggs, salt, and ice. A total perversion of it’s original form, for your own patriarchal pleasure, you misogynistic consumer you!

THAT, is misogyny writ large! [2]

Ice cream makes women fat. Fat is a feminist issue. [3] Sure many MRMs will argue that ice cream doesn’t make women fat; that some women make the choice to over-indulge in ice cream without a commensurate amount of physical exercise to counter their caloric intake, but they are wrong. It has been proven that women are not responsible for their choices. Ever.

The FBI’s newly broadened definition of rape makes it clear that women are not responsible for the choices they make. [4] Ergo, ice cream makes women fat against their will. It is nonconsensual fat.

Ben and Jerry’s is one of the most successful ice cream brands worldwide and is run by two men; Ben and Jerry. Therefore, Ben and Jerry are agents of the patriarchy; a two-man, anti-women hate group. As previously noted, ice cream comes from milk. Milk comes from female cows, as opposed to male bulls. Milk is the sacred life force of the Divine Feminine. Ben and Jerry are men who are stealing the sacred life force of the Divine Feminine for personal profit and the oppression of women by making them fat.

It cannot be stated enough that Ben and Jerry are both men. If they cared about the plight of women and women’s long history of oppression, they would rename their organization Beth and Jerry or Ben and Jenny or Beth and Jenny. Ben and Jerry are clearly representatives of the business as usual Old Boy’s Club. They are stopping women from breaking through the dairy ceiling.

The first letters of Ben’s and Jerry’s names are B and J. BJ is the abbreviation for blowjob. A blowjob is a degrading sexual act that is perpetrated on 15 out of 10 women every 3 seconds for the sole purpose of a man’s pleasure as found by the Random Statistics Generator ™ from the Outtamyass Institute of Femtechnology.  Therefore, Ben and Jerry are supporters of oral sex rape.

Need further evidence? Ben and Jerry plan to unveil a new flavor next month; Dominique Strauss-Cone.

Ben and Jerry have no fashion sense. They look like a couple of slacker stoner dudes who live in the basement of their mother’s underwater house. You just know they wouldn’t be able to support a woman. They don’t look like they even know how to groom and dress themselves. Losers.

Their callous disregard of the latest fashion trends just goes to show how right Star columnist Heather Mallick was when she wrote, “Women often shop for men, and I shudder to think how men would dress if they didn’t. Most men can’t even enter shops to buy their own pants.” [5] (* No joke: This excerpt is taken from an attack article Ms. Mallick directed at a 17-year old boy).

Ice cream is served in scoops. The French word for scoop is boule, which translates to ball. Men have balls. A few years ago, I ordered a dish of glacé at a French restaurant in Zurich. The Italian waiter teased me by asking how many “boules” I wanted. He sexually harassed me with Ben and Jerry’s ice cream.

Couples often frequent Ben and Jerry’s ice cream shops after a dinner date. Men ply unsuspecting women with Ben and Jerry’s ice cream in order to get them into bed. After a woman’s inhibitions are disinhibited with a little Cherry Garcia, for example, the act of seduction becomes much easier.

Furthermore, many women who are tricked into bed with Ben and Jerry’s, never hear from their dates again. Not only is this an act of domestic violence [6] it is evidence that these so-called seduction artists are members of a hate group. [7]

Ben and Jerry give their ice cream flavors misogynistic names. Don’t think for one moment that I’ve forgotten the Schweddy Balls ice cream incident. [8] Forcing women and children to lick Schweddy Balls. Sickos. These two creeps should be on the sex offender’s registry.

Not to mention, Alec Baldwin was in the SNL Schweddy Balls skit. [9]

This is the same Alec Baldwin who believes PAS (Parental Alienation Syndrome) is real and supports equal custody laws. [10] On the other hand he is a liberal and contributes to the MuffPo. [11] Dammit. Cognitive dissonance is tugging at my brain cells. CONFLICTED! [12]

And let’s not forget about the Ben and Jerry’s flavor Chubby Hubby. [13] This is indisputable evidence that Ben and Jerry support same-sex marriage. Everyone knows girl on girl is hot and man on man is not.

If men are allowed to marry one another, they will deprive women of resources that they are entitled to via heterosexual marriage and then heterosexual divorce (e.g., spousal support and child support). Ben and Jerry support denying access to money and other valuable resources for marriageable women and their children.

Additional MRM hate groups currently under investigation:

Dick’s Sporting Goods

Hungry Man Dinners

PS3, Xbox and Nintendo

Dungeons and Dragons (for the old-schoolers)

The Boy Scouts of America


The Sarasota Men’s Barbershop Quartet

The Gherkin Building (Well, I mean, c’mon. Just look at it. It’s a phallic monument to the patriarchy. I hear MRMs meet in its basement and think misogynisticky thoughts and act all misogynisticky.)

Disclaimer: This is a satirical editorial. Stating that Ben and Jerry’s and its co-founders, Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, are misogynistic MRMs and leaders of the growing MSM hate movement in no way implies that AVfM or I believe that they are misogynists or members of any hate group.


About Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.

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  • AntZ

    WOW! Dr T, your pen was on fire! What writing! I can’t stop laughing!

    Poor David Futrelle … the bozo dedicated his life to satire. Mercifully, he does not have 1% of your natural ability — or the MRM would be in a world of hurt!

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Thought we could all use a little levity after this last week and this is my humble attempt.

      • scatmaster

        Dr T: When you asked for my help on a little html for your article and you said you hoped I would “like” it. You were wrong I LOVE IT!!!!!!

        I very rarely laugh out loud at the written word but this is a riot and a great job of skewering all at the same time. More please!!!!!

        I however am not CONFLICTED with JMK been number one.

        Guess she did not realize even when she removes bigoted statements from Twitter they still exist and we are still watching. Hi Jenna.

        • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

          Thank you, scatmaster. :) Your help was invaluable because a picture is worth a thousand words. And so are some tweets.

          • scatmaster

            Anytime Dr T you know where to find me if you need some more help and I am sure glad you are on our side.

  • Atlas Reloaded

    LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!! Dr T I love you you are awesome I am calling Ben and Jerry’s to have a flavor named after you!!!!!

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Thanks, Atlas. Two scoops, er, boules, please.

    • Paul Elam

      “Sticky Misogynisticky”

      • Atlas Reloaded


      • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

        Don’t forget the brownie chunks.

    • Kimski

      No, that won’t do, Atlas. Think about it. Dr.T. ice cream. T is a letter that comes before W as in Woman, thereby implying that Dr.T sees herself as better than other women. Dr.T. is an MRA, therefore the whole concept of Dr.T ice cream is misogynisticky..


      I suspected something like this was on the way, the last time you went on an ice-cream rant. How many times did you have to stop yourself from laughing to be able to write this down??
      You need to stay off that shit. It makes you hyped. Very, very funny, but hyped..-as in misogynist sugar rush.

      • Atlas Reloaded

        Very well.


        • Kimski

          LOL! I actually had to look that up for the definition.
          Sort of made it loose it’s edge, right?

      • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

        I was chuckling a little as I wrote it.

        Didn’t Jack Kerouac write On the Road in one sitting after a gallon of Wavy Gravy?

        • Kimski

          What a rush, considering Kerouac wrote it in less than 3 weeks.
          Great book, btw, but obviously not the one you should read, if you’re looking for the answer and explanation to everything in life.

  • Skeptic

    Newsflash – latest feminist internet action group Occupy Men’s Groups! cutely acronym-ed as OMG! has just held a flash mob at a B&J store in Manhattan. After smashing the cones because they are phallic symbols and spreading menstrual blood over buckets of ice cream as an act of empowerment they twittered a press release –
    “We are in sisterly affiliation with SPLC (Society for Protection from Logic and Common sense).
    This is just the beginning.
    It’s a good start and we stand together in demanding the total withdrawal of all commercialized symbols of patriarchal oppression”
    Zuccini and Cucumber farmers across the state have been alerted of the danger to their crops.
    A local man who had witnessed the flash mob commented – “Jeeze, I guess in future I’ll have to eat healthier food in my Mom’s basement instead”.

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Hi Skeptic,

      Love the Society for Protection from Logic and Common Sense. Just brilliant.

      • Skeptic

        Thanks TJ.
        I should also add a belated thanks for your hilarious article which inspired my flight of fantasy.

    • orry

      SPLC: Society for Protection from Logic and Common Sense. That should go viral immediately.

  • Cumbria

    Very clever and funny! Most definitely needed the laugh after recent events! Thank you, Dr. T. How about you, Mr. Elam. We haven’t had a good dose of your wicked wit in awhile.

    • AntZ

      Let Paul recover. The struggle can take a heavy toll on a man.

  • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

    Thanks, Cumbria. I agree, I could definitely use some more laughter.

  • Otter

    omg I laughed so hard when I read the following:

    “It cannot be stated enough that Ben and Jerry are both men. ”

    Let me try one:

    Feminists have finally leveled their sights on the greatest misogynist of all, yea that’s right, Jesus. By advocating for “love for all people” and not explicitly stating that women are more deserving of love, he betrayed a hatred of all womankind. They think he learned this from his father.

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Well, Jesus never married, spent way too much time with his friends, and was against materialism and consumerism. HATER.

    • Tawil

      Jesus’ act of aggressively overturning the money changers tables would slap him with a feminist inspired Violence Order today, and have his followers -who recount this incident with pride- branded as a hate group that preaches violent acts. By doing this Jesus has demonstrated one more act of physical violence than has AvFM (ie. zero)… so I hope the SPLC take note and put Jesus on their hit list, especially as he has millions of potentially violent followers. And thats without even mentioning St. Peter’s act of cutting off the Roman soldiers ear, and plenty of other violent acts such as the Crusades which continue in various forms to this very minute.

      • TDOM

        Jesus was also an advocate for violence against women. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” He obviously wanted to move to the front of the line and he made no such prohibition on sin for any stone after the first.


        • Paul Elam

          You have a very sick side that I really love.

        • Him There
          • Kimski

            Nothing has changed.
            Not. A. Thing.

            “Look, all I said was that feminism sucks and..
            -Ouch!-We haven’t started yet!”

          • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

            I’m going to have to watch the Life of Brian again tonight. Heck, may as well make it a double feature and top it off with The Holy Grail.

  • Merlin

    Nice one Dr.T

    Loved the post…lol Quality, I might add. We definitely need some bloody humour after all the battles recently and you pulled it off with styleeee 😉

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Aww, thanks, Merlin. I’m still chuckling at your Pavement Wars piece, which is funny cuz it’s true.

      • Merlin

        Likewise Dr.T

        It was a rip roaring read…I can see you put in some time and effort. I particularly like the BJ stats…15 out of 10. He he, that’s about right where the feminists are concerned. Gotta love those false stats they come up with.

  • Teri Stoddard

    LOVE IT!

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Thanks, Teri, and thank you also to you and your colleagues for everything you do.

  • micksbabe

    Maybe if B&J’s (hah! another unintended fem-offensive pun) made ice cream from Bull’s milk, they would be considered more pro-fem?

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Ha! I’d love to see a radical feminist try to milk a bull. That one’s going on my bucket list.

      • Atlas Reloaded

        If she failed she’d surely blame the bull.

  • 4thtroika

    Bravo! I’d laugh, but my throat is too raw from all the coughing I’ve been doing this week.

  • Iron John

    LOL! That was hilarious! I could not have written any better myself. Thanks for the laugh, and for helping us all in the MRM keep some perspective.

  • LJ

    It’s so obvious, of course feminists need someone else to Deep Throat for them.
    +1 for the reference.

    Dr. T, I’d be happy to mail you The Rules,” if you’ll address them somewhere.

  • Paul Elam

    Off topic:

    Good news to report here. I have been in touch with someone in Factories family. He is under direct medical care and I am told he is doing better.

    I will post more info as it becomes available.

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      That’s a relief. Thanks for the update, Paul.

      Maybe it’s trite, but this always picks up my spirits:

      • DukeLax

        Dr T…you Quack …me up ….lol

    • AntZ

      I am happy to hear it! I have been reading some of Factorie’s archived writings for a voice for men. He has a gift. He also has many friends. And he is doing more good than he will ever know.

    • Fr Bob

      That is great news Paul.

    • Dr. F

      Excellent news, ta.

    • Iron John

      Thanks for the update.

    • JinnBottle

      Paul – relieved to hear it. Thanx.

    • xtrnl

      That’s a huge relief. Factory is a huge inspiration to me. It’s so rare that you find a man willing to stand up for men, and with such determination and confidence. I’ve been thinking about starting my own youtube series, just like him. I hope that he can access this site and see how much he means to all of us.

    • Tim Legere

      Great news! Thanks for letting us know.

    • Kimski

      Very good news.
      Thank you for letting us know.

  • Darryl X

    “And, no, satire does not have anything to do with Satan or satanic cults and the sexual abuse of children.”

    Sorry – I lost it on the trigger warning. I’ll try and get through the rest of the article later.

  • Darryl X

    “Furthermore, many women who are tricked into bed with Ben and Jerry’s, never hear from their dates again. Not only is this an act of domestic violence [6] it is evidence that these so-called seduction artists are members of a hate group. [7]”

    Can you blame them after all the “nonconsensual” fat the men put on the woman. Am I even allowed to write that? Sensual? Are women even allowed to be sesual? Even if it’s nonconsesual?

  • xtrnl

    LMAO! Thank you so much for that much needed laugh, Dr. P. It’s been a while since an article’s made me LOL like this. BTW, I was just wondering, how is Factory doing?

    • Paul Elam

      See my comment above.

      • xtrnl


  • .ProleScum.

    Love it Dr T. Thanks for the laughs.

    …Dungeons and Dragons, indeed!

    And thanks for passing on the good news about Factory, Paul.

  • AntZ

    OT: Great story if someone wants to write about it

    Feministe just ran an article about a new film called “Seeking Asian Female.”

    Here is the story:

    * 60 yo American man buys “Chinese bride” add
    * gets hundreds of offers
    * selects a hot 20 year old
    * marries her right off the plane

    and …

    * after marriage, they have occasional quarrels

    So Jill of feministe uses the last point as an example of why “Asian fever” is an illusion in the mind of unrealistic Western men.


    There is an online video, and it is stupidly clear that this Asian bride offers 1000 times more respect, affection, compassion, desire, intimacy … and on and on … than ANY American woman ever would.

    The biggest problem that the Asian 20-year old has with her 60-year old husband is that sometimes she has to call him many times before he comes to the table to eat the elaborate meals that she prepares for him.

    Lol :)

    Jill could not have written a better “foreign bride” advertisement if she had tried.

    The amazing part is, these feminists live in an alternate reality that is so bizarre and disconnected that she thinks this movie supports HER position (that Western man have nothing at all to complain about).

  • orry

    “BJ is the abbreviation for blowjob. A blowjob is a degrading sexual act that is perpetrated on 15 out of 10 women every 3 seconds for the sole purpose of a man’s pleasure as found by the Random Statistics Generator ™ from the Outtamyass Institute of Femtechnology”

    That’s brilliant Dr. T. I’m on my way to the emergency room right now to have my sides stitched up.

    • DukeLax


      • DukeLax

        laughing my ass off …..”Random statistics generator” lol

  • keyster

    From the cognative dissonance file:

    Ben and Jerry’s is owned by Unilever, a British and Dutch food and home product conglomerate. It is the third largest consumer goods company in the world, behind Procter/Gamble and Nestle. Their market cap is around $100 Billion. Their CEO makes $3.75 million a year in salary alone (that’s $72,000 per week).

    Unilever purchased Ben and Jerry for $326 million in 2000. Part of the deal was that some of Ben and Jerry’s social principles would be instilled into Unilever.

    Ben and Jerry would prefer you just think of them as self-righteous humanists, seeking social and economic justice for the oppressed classes.

    Ironically Unilever is also the maker of SlimFast.

    • Rper1959

      Ah the irony added to the satire, unbelievable!

  • Tawil

    Dr. T, that is a killer from beginning to end…. has to go down as one of the most entertaining AvFM articles ever written. And it is educational to boot !!

  • Turbo

    Love it Dr T

    “the Random Statistics Generator ™ from the Outtamyass Institute of Femtechnology”


    “It is nonconsensual fat


    Very good news about Factory Paul

  • Dr. F

    Dr. T. You are quite the ridiculous creature are you not ?

    All this gibberish about ice creams and oppression and patriarchy.

    Although, makes me want to out right now and get me one of them doughnuts so I can fight back.

  • Rper1959

    With much thanks Dr T, I was in very much need of a good laugh this weekend and this has done it for me.

    In fact I laughed till tears realising the sordid truths behind your satire,

    Anyway off to Baskin and Robbins to oppress a few more female cows, ( Ben and Jerry have not made it to Aus yet). Have a good one!

  • TDOM

    “Don’t think for one moment that I’ve forgotten the Schweddy Balls ice cream incident.”

    I was, in fact, beginning to believe you had forgotten their Schweddy Balls. It’s good to see that you didn’t. But if you had, I had your back with the following article about one Million Moms attempt to castrate them by cutting off production.

    Great job. And let’s not forget that both ice cream and women can be frigid. Just another cold, hard fact.


    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Good read and a good take on it. Thank you.

  • JinnBottle

    “In order to eradicate the ‘boy code’ and make them as woman-sensative as girls, boys need to stay much longer in the presence of their mother than they currently do” – summary of latest Feminist developmental theory of males.

    “A guy who lives in his mother’s basement” – Feminist summary of a Loser.

    “Men can hardly go into a store and pickout trousers for themselves” – summary of Feminist notion that men have no regard for how they look.

    “He spends more time in the mirror than *I* do” – summary of NYC women’s (feminists’) notion of a Loser.

  • Mellaril

    “Couples often frequent Ben and Jerry’s ice cream shops after a dinner date. Men ply unsuspecting women with Ben and Jerry’s ice cream in order to get them into bed. After a woman’s inhibitions are disinhibited with a little Cherry Garcia, for example, the act of seduction becomes much easier.”

    This is so true! The only time I ever got my exgf into a porn shop was after we visited an ice cream parlor. It might have had a little something to do with the wine we had at dinner but we’d had wine with dinner other times and never hit a porn shop so it had to be the ice cream….

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Definitely, the ice cream, Mellaril. Good to see you find your way over here!

  • JinnBottle

    Only Feminism could demand that, in the name of Fairness, women have equal opportunity to drop bombs on children.

  • JinnBottle

    Summary of Manboobz’s notion of a “strong woman”: a gal who’ll please, please, pleeeez, grind her high heel in his ass while he scrubs the floor.

    Speaking of that, I see we MRAs are too “gutteral” for the Southern Poverty Law Center’s “watchdog”. I guess the SPLC now only serves poor people whose shit, like theirs, don’t stink.

  • JinnBottle

    Just read thru Manboobz’s SPLC article, where he lists all the major “misogynist” sites. My reaction? In the words of John Procter of Authur Miller’s “The Crucible”: “I must find such a society, and join it.”

    • Raz

      Ditto. What this moron has effectively done is provide us a list of top MRA sites to visit on a regular basis (if you’re not already).
      If Manboobz isn’t listing your site as a preyer of “Hate” or “violence”, then it probably isn’t worth a damn.

  • Him There

    Ice cream cones were designed by men to look like men’s willies so when Innocent Woman licks one she is forced against her will into fellatio.

    Also, “May Contain Traces of Nuts”, therefore Patriarchy.


  • Raz

    WOW. This caliber of tong & cheek wit is something I wasn’t expecting from Dr. T.
    JTO, sure, but…Tara? Really! Thats awesome.
    Great piece! I LOL the whole way through.

  • All2Keen

    I love here to read this kind of article. From the title and “trigger warnings” all the way through, satire at it’s best. Bravo, Doc T. Let the “conflicted” try and label this article.

    I would love to see people come here and try to label this as anything other than satire. Just the right kind of article to have on A Voice for Men.

    Keep rockin’ the hits Doc T.

  • Skeptic

    Damn! I used to be able to walk past an ice cream shop without getting a hard-on. Now my primal patriarchal impulses will stick out like a sore thumb!
    Will B & J compensate feminists by bringing out a new “butcher men” flavor?

    When the non hormonal male birth control pill arrives will women submit to this oppression? –

  • andybob

    Exploitation of oppressed female bovines? What udder nonsense!

    So, you’re clever and cute.

  • Phil in Utah

    Dr. T, PLEASE stop making me laugh! I need to get to sleep.

  • Ben

    “nonconsensual fat” Love this!!

    Great work, Dr. T! It sends my Ridiculometer™ into overdrive. This is the precise type of thing we need right now. What bitter-sweet anti-fembot weaponry you have formulated with this piece! There is SO much being said in this article — SO much. Thanks for writing it!

  • keyster

    Seriously, humor is a key aspect of the fight.

    Just ask:
    Jon Stewart
    David Letterman
    Steve Colbert
    Bill Maher
    The writing staff at SNL

    Being proper and unobjectionable is not a strategy against ridicule, mockery and personal invective.

  • DruidV

    Great writing Dr. T!

    This would actually have been quite funny, if it wasn’t exactly how these feminasties think and speak.

    The sad reality is that this “satire” is nothing of the kind to these types and the only emotion it conjured for me is one of sheer dread.

    When will the stake finally be driven through its heart?

  • Patrick Henry

    I’m headed down to Ben and Jerry’s today and gettin’ me some Boston Cream Pie, if you know what I mean… ya make it two “scoops.” I got to shows these boys my support. Can’t wait to get my spoon into that frozen, divine feminine. Mmmm…

  • Perseus

    Brilliant piece Dr. T. Apt and thorough skewering of the gross peddlers of deceit and hatred toward men. Feminism exerts its tyrannical rule through weakness and subversion; by definition we can win, the scum can be beat.

    OT: This is quite interesting in an MRM context, particularly the last quarter:

    She studies shame, but she ‘only studies women’. And then is like hit with a freight train when a man enlightens her that men bear the ass end of it all. Like wtf? The depth of female selfishness, and under the guise of ‘equality and humanism’, continues to startle.

    Females, as a rule, do not genuinely and sincerely care about males, outside of their utility. To the extent that they appear to, it comes across as forced and contrived. What a bummer.


  • TPH

    I can’t wait for Dr T to do an article on Thanksgiving seeing how all the Turkeys consumed are female!

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Stuffing = Rape. Kitchen twine to tie the legs. Turkey basters, breast meat. There’s a lot of material.

      Thanksgiving: A Day of Violence Against Women.

  • Nick Langford

    Thank God no one told Dr Tara about Matt O’Connor and his breast milk ice cream (That’s human breast milk. From human breasts. Yum.) What would she have made of that, I wonder?–father-for-justice-and-ice-cream-extremist-6576400.html

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Definitely not a milkshake, that’s for damn sure.

  • Whothehell Cares

    It seems Ben and Jerry are even more violent towards women than Tom and Jerry are to each other.