Welcome all to round 3 of the debate between myself and Frost on the subject of Game, PUA and the MRM. In round 2, Frost finally raised some points that can serve to illustrate our differences in a much more tangible way.
Thankfully, the points of contention are simple enough that I needn’t be too loquacious to address them. I can skip over his initial and lackluster stabs at humor, and the pointless attempt to explain what the debate is not about. Gee, that was helpful.
I can even forgive the embarrassingly myopic definition: “Game is the study of how women respond to men’s behavior,” and help him out with something much better:
Game is a learned skillset used for manipulating women into sex and other forms of interpersonal compliance.
No charge for that one, Frost, but a suggestion – if you want to debate someone, it’s a good idea to understand your side of the argument better than your opponent. There is also the matter that this is really just a definition of Game that Gamebots would prefer. There is, in reality, a definition that is much more accurate.
Game is the skills development required to help men stop talking women out of fucking them.
No charge for that one either, Frost. It will make sense to you in about 10-15 years.
The next point of any “significance” in Frost’s response is:
“The bottom line is that Game is a tool men can use to increase their success with women. No more, no less. If a man chooses to eschew sex for life, I admit he will have no use for Game. Otherwise, he would be a fool to dismiss the idea of thinking critically about his interactions with women.”
First, and after I dismiss the drivel (for the second time) that only celibate men disagree with him, we probably ought to give him a cookie for only taking three more paragraphs to inch just a smidgeon closer to what he is talking about when he defines Game.
Yes, Game is about “success” with women; meaning fucking them. And of course that is a worthwhile goal of any healthy heterosexual male, with perhaps one caveat. Having sex with a female is also the natural and healthy goal of a male black widow spider, which tends to benefit the female in that she usually gets a post-coitus snack.
Obviously, in the human realm sex with women is not near as dangerous as it is with the black widow. But there are risks and we do have a legion of ideologues working feverishly to create more of them. Thus far they have had a good measure of success. Where Game and PUA fail is in that they operate in complete denial of this, and take a balls-first-brain-on-the-back-burner approach. They protect that approach with hostile vigor, regarding any risk management as a weakness or some other form of “MRA faggotry.”
I have to note at this point that the male black widow can almost always be seen feverishly trying to escape his looming cannibalization when sex with the female is complete. He frequently fails, but even with a brain that has less mass than a grain of sand, he is aware of risks and attempts to reduce them with a quick flight. He does not eschew sex, but he knows the possibilities that comes with it and acts accordingly.
So, when you look at the utter lack of risk management practiced by PUA’s, it would appear they don’t have the intellect of your average arachnid. It is probably this same disregard for consequences that led Frost into challenging me to a debate. Or it might just be that Frost and those of his ilk are simply so pussyblind that talking to them about sex related risk is like talking to a lemming about the dangers of cliff diving. Hard to say, but my guess is that Frost will likely help you decide with his own words before this is over.
So, I offer what I have already written here for context to consider as I examine what Frost finally deemed important enough to number and put in bold text:
1) You think that our specific teachings are flawed.
First I have to say how dumbstruck, I am. Wow! And to think, all it took was reading Chateau Bullshit and my first response to your debate challenge and then writing half your own response to get to the volcanically hot and incisive observation that I think your “specific teachings” are flawed. And so you present that bit of intellectual wizardry as your first, heavily emphasized statement in the debate.
Daayum, son, no wonder you da shizz wif da bizzitches.
Except there is still a problem here. Your point there is as half assed as your assessment of Game and its value. It is not just your specific teachings that are flawed, but your specific everything. You have your head so rooted in the pursuit of vagina, that you completely interpreted Chateau Bullshit in the wrong way.
It was not intended to present Gamebots and PUA’s with a more efficient way to maintain their pussycentism, but a challenge to the centrism itself. And you demonstrate now that all of that flew directly over your pointed little head.
You use sales pitch catch words, e.g. “top-tier women” and references to your own stellar success over 95% of the male population. I am deeply impressed. But perhaps, Frost, you should define what “top tier” means to you. Weather girl Heidi Jones is a good looking woman. Is she top tier? Also consider Victoria Haigh. Not exactly drop dead good looking, but not bad either. Accused her man of child rape. Top tier or no, Frost? And what aspects of Game is it that will help us figure it out before it is too late for the next man caught in her web?
I could hammer at this all day, but truth tell, young man, I think you are so immersed in your own narcissistic gratification via the attention of women that you can’t see much of anything but a labia, a patch of hair and yourself, as the imagined idol of women and your fellow P-hounds.
And that brings us to your second “point.”
2) You object to the general idea of improving your relationships with women.
Part of the problem here is that your constant obfuscations are tearing down any chance you have of making a valid argument. At this point I will just inform AVfM readers that I have taken on the responsibility of translating Frostspeak into plain honest English.
It is not “improving your relationships with women,” that Frost is talking about, of course. It is getting more pussy, hopefully from some of those “top tier” women. See pics.
To the contrary, AVfM is very much interested in improving relationships with women. We do that by advocating for their equal treatment under the law as opposed to special treatment, and by advocating for their uncompromised and unambiguous accountability in matters personal.
That insistence on personal accountability goes a long way toward improving relationships in my own life, with men and women alike. It helps me maintain peace of mind, eliminates most drama and risk, and has never cost me a piece of ass that I wanted. Rather it enhances the quality of all people I choose to associate with because I screen out the dead weight early on, before they can cause real problems or simply suck up time out of my life that I will never get back.
If Game and PUA are supposed to teach men to “see themselves as the prize,” I think their failure to incorporate risk management calls irrefutable bullshit on that. But I think speaking of these things to Frost may well be lecturing on physics to a chimpanzee. Nope, I am just debating, and I use that word loosely, a pussy hound here; nothing more. He’ll never get more than six inches deep because there is nothing in him that can go any further. Pity.
It is hard to know what else to tell someone like Frost, though I am sure in his next post he will give me the ammunition to do so, just as he did before.
I do hope though, that as he wants to dedicate his life to helping young men enter barrooms full of borderline skanks and not come our frustrated or lonely, that he considers more fully the implications of such a singular mentality about sex.
Sex is available to any man who wants it without foregoing risk management, but men won’t be learning that from the legions of hucksters out there doing nothing more than exploiting their loneliness for a buck.
My last response in this debate, which will come after one more round of Frost trying to figure out different ways to convince you he has the golden key to quality pussy, and therefore a better life, will deal with the concept of male self-actualization, values, and how Game and PUA undermine those things in men.