Trusting Women

Women and Trust, The Ugly Truth

Women control human reproduction. This has been the case throughout history. In almost all sexually reproducing species, it is females who select mates for reproduction, and males who compete to be selected. Humans are not different in this respect.

The invention of modern contraceptive technologies has not changed this fact but has cemented it. This means that women also control access to sex, and thereby control men and society at large. This is neither objectively good nor bad. It is simply the truth.

In the late nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies what we now call second wave feminism rose to prominence. Many of the movement’s stated objectives were simple matters of equity. These objectives; women’s admittance to higher education, political office, the clergy, and the right to be taken seriously in courts of law, were met. However, they were not accomplished by force against the male dominated establishments of of education, politics, business and the church, but met willingly, by men who saw clearly that sex is no barrier to competence. Unfortunately, simple justice was only a small part of a movement which alert adults now correctly call a hate movement.

Women presently hold almost absolute control of the courts, the education system, the entertainment industry, the government, the family courts, and the police. That is not to suggest women hold the majority of jobs in those fields, rather that female-centric ideology is the dominant narrative. This wouldn’t be a problem, except that this female centric ideology includes a deep and  irrational hatred of men.

  • As evidence of this, consider the documented fact that men are far more likely than women to be the victims of violence [1], at every stage of life. But in the United States, a special set of laws called the violence against women act exists on the books to provide extra protection for women, and a fast track to conviction for men, bypassing many of the checks and balances of normal jurisprudence.
  • Based on accusation alone, our society will now utterly destroy the life and livelihood of any man of whom it is whispered: rapist. Conviction in a court of law; not needed, accusation is guilt.
  • Family court judges and lawyers are increasingly admitting that frivolous abuse of protective orders is prevalent against men, and are cynically used as a routine tactic in divorce proceedings[2].
  • Our society persists in a widespread hysteria, propagated by our media that within every law abiding, hardworking man, there lurks the heart of a kiddie-fiddler. That the word pedophile is applied almost exclusively to male perpetrators of this rare crime, while offenders if distributed by sex are approximately equally dispersed between male and female. [3] The 2008 US Department of health and human services report of child abuse indicated 42.6% of offenders in child abuse to be male, and 56.2 % being female. This report covered general abuse, including neglect, physical psychological and sexual abuse, with sexual abuse forming only 7% of overall abuse of children.
  • In cases where an adult woman is caught sexually abusing a minor, she is described by the media using terms like “teacher”, “caretaker”, or “older woman” or simply “lover” – and her crime is called “an affair”. In cases where the perpetrator is male, it is called “abuse”, “sexual assault” or “rape” and the perpetrator is called “pedophile” – for the exact same type of crime.
  • All domestic abuse in which the provisional victim does not leave after the first incident of violence means that two people, and not just one person, are responsible for the continuation and maintenance of that violent relationship. To presume that woman in such situations are powerless to extricate themselves is to cast for them the role of a child – for an adult woman in an adult relationship. To be sure, here are men who abuse their spouses, but to imagine that this happens in a vacuum and that women in such relationships do not equally abuse, assault, and instigate violence against their spouses is to live in a fantasy world.
  • In cases where women are the primary aggressor in an abusive relationship, men assaulted by their spouses who seek outside help will find themselves not helped, but arrested, imprisoned, and stripped of their home and children by a legal system which starts with the basic assumption of women’s innocence, and men’s villainy.

Our society is now to heavily tilted towards the criminalization of the male identity, resulting in the fact that there is no social, legal, or practical negative consequence for women who lie about abuse, violence, threats, or sexual abuse, or who use the law as a tool to denude men of their property, careers, homes, and children.

A man entering a relationship with a women does so on only on the hope and the trust that she will not exercise her social, legal, and political power to destroy him. This hope is founded on nothing but optimism, as there is no longer any de-motivator to women to casually and easily destroy a man for profit, or sport, or simple whim.

Women as a sex are neither inherently “bad” nor “good”, just as men, as a sex, are also simply human beings. Some are malicious, most aren’t.

Unfortunately, where advantage can be taken by individuals within a system, it will be taken. And the our society currently affords terrible privilege, power and exception from responsibility to women. Because of this, and in a climate where most elements of our society tilts toward a vilification of men and protection of, enablement of, and elevation of women; men cannot reasonably trust women.

That bears repeating : in this system men cannot reasonably trust women.

In relationships, the odds for men are stacked against any outcome except betrayal and destruction. Certainly, many women are not unethical, nor are seeking to exploit men’s near non-person status in our society. Unfortunately, many women are seeking just that outcome. There is no social or legal obstacle to women who would exploit the system we now enjoy; the system where all men are bad, and all women are good.

Women, we men can’t trust members of your sex in this system. There are admittedly few men alert to this fact as yet. The men’s movement is just waking up, there will be more of us. This is not hatred towards women, it’s just awareness and self preservation. It’s a system established by over 50 years of feminism. It is apparently what your sex wanted, and now you have it. Or, maybe this isn’t what you wanted. But if it’s not, what do you mean to do about it?

[1] http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/tables/vsxtab.cfm
[2] http://www.batteredmen.com/youngres.htm
[3] http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm08/cm08.pdf

  • Unrewarded

    *GASP*! How DARE you cite statistics? You’re just drawing away attention from women because you’re a RAPIST! MAN UP and play on ***EQUAL*** level with us feminists!

    • Unrewarded

      i no sister. hes just soooooooo bitter mayb wen hes not so negative hell get some pussay. these mra weirdos need to stop bitching… statistics and reason are for LOOOOSERS.

      • Tom M

        I think they are so scarrrry! I’m affraid!

  • Eff’d Off

    Beautiful piece, thank you.

    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Cane bumping.jpg[/img]

    • BeijaFlor

      I thought that was “Cane Rape.” Like the “Birth Rape” story a month or so ago.

  • codebuster

    This means that women also control access to sex, and thereby control men and society at large.

    The “traditional” transaction went more or less thusly:
    1) Women controlled access to sex;
    2) Men controlled access to resources (not only material resources, but also political, legal, etc).

    But men have now abdicated their responsibility wrt resources, surrendering it all to the feminist Matriarchy (and their idiot white knights in power). And thus, in effect, women now control access to both sex and resources. Frightening.

    • Rad

      Well, women also (eventually) gave up traditional control of sex, in the sense that you can get it without having to marry her etc.

      While that occurred culturally, the laws that governed marriage (and children) did not change. Thus women received all the same benefits as men without taking on the corresponding responsibilities. That’s where the privilege began.

      • http://counterfem.blogspot.com fidelbogen

        “Well, women also (eventually) gave up traditional control of sex, in the sense that you can get it without having to marry her etc.”

        Nope. Nothing was “given up”. Merely reconfigured.

        If you carefully reflect upon all the feminist innovations wrt “rape” and “male violence”, you will see that women effectively have MORE (and more draconian) control of sex than they ever did.

        So, as I have concluded elsewhere, it is a vitally important strategy for men to assert power and control in this realm by some highly innovative thinking which goes against the grain.

        http://counterfem.blogspot.com/2006/10/ideas-which-go-against-grain.html

        Of course, pussy-beggars, PUAs and alpha cocksmen might find that this subverts their cultural paradigm.

  • http://matthewabsurdity.blogspot.com/ Matthew

    Great piece,
    but I have heard of similar information for several times.

    Unrewarded have cited an interesting point. To beat feminists and their obnoxious ideology, we are doomed to face irrational comments from others.

    I think we should seriously figure out some ways to deal with them. According to my experience, most men can be easily convinced if we give them good reasons to believe in us.

    But we need to think about how to deal with women, not all, but most of whom just aren’t receptive to reasons.

    Obviously, trying reasoning won’t do any good, but I doubt if trying emotional tactics will be effective either, since we, as men, are just not biologically designed to be able to do this.

    What can we do?

  • http://avoiceformen.com Tom
    • Raven01

      If you think that is bad look into Florida’s take on the Castle doctorine.
      They’ve taken a reasonable expectation of being able to defend your home from intruders to new heights of idiocy. In one case an off duty cop was at a house party and while drunk became quite obnoxious and was asked to leave. The cop then shot the home-owner claiming “because he had a broken leg at the time he felt threatened”….. not charges were laid.
      So not only can cops enter your home illegally in Indianna, in Florida off-duty they can shoot you dead in your own home and not be charged.

  • Stu

    As far as I’m concerned you should be able to refuse entry to anybody to your house and if they enter, you should only be required to order them to leave once, and after that you should be allowed to use whatever force is required to remove them……..up to and including shooting them dead if they are armed

    • Tom M

      If they are armed – forget the warning – take the dangerous intruder out

  • KARMA MRA MGTOW – above the law
    • Tom M

      NICE job, Mick!

    • Patrick Henry

      Does Mick ever come to this site?

      • Patrick Henry

        I ask because I would like to hear his story. Maybe even a show call in.

    • B.R. Merrick

      “I’ve asked for help … so many times, no one wants to help the blokes; the chicks get in first and start throwing stones, the blokes don’t stand a chance.”

      That man is gorgeous, inside and out! Even the article talked about his “muscular build,” but didn’t bother to mention his muscular brain, or his muscular will. That’s a dad and a half.

    • railroadwino

      I get the feeling that the video in that link showing a poll sympathetic to Mick, a supportive caller, and a relatively unbiased news report had A LOT to do with the fact that Mick is telegenic. If a balding, overweight, middle-age dad had climbed that bridge he would be vilified and laughed at.

  • Tom M

    THIS IS WHAT A FEMINIST LOOKS LIKE:
    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/thumbnail.jpg[/img]

    I said, “me, Me, ME, MEEEE, damnit!”

    • Tom M

      Sweet! Got just a touch of femichivalrist knee jerk reaction there, did I?;-)

    • Tom M

      Truth in a nutshell – Ooooh, how painful!

      Gotta love it!

  • ProleScum

    Manuel, your rigor and lucidity serve as a beacon of hope in this long misandric night. Hats off to you sir.

  • Stu

    Mike Fox is on 60mins

    That’s here in Oz that is

    Seemed like an msm positive report about the plight of men for a change. It’s all about parental alienation. He said is is going to continue the fight, and that these TV and radio appearances will prove positively to his kids that he loves them. He did say that he will be continuing the fight even after his personel situation improves.

    Looks like the feminist system has created yet another MRA. A very ballsy one too.

  • Stu

    Btw, on polls here in Oz, most people support his protest. The court responded by banning him from seeing his kids. I don’t know how often he was allowed to see his kids before……probably every two weeks…..which was obviously not being enforced. So the court thinks the problem with him not getting to see his kids…….is that he has any access at all……..ban that……problem solved…….for her.

    • Raven01

      Sickening, and we see more and more PAS every year. And so far I am not away of any country that even officially acknowledges PAS exists let alone is a problem (likely because the vast majority of those guilty of it are women).

      With the information we have (Facts not conjecture) on fatherless children and their likelihood to thrive and succeed, P.A.S. should be listed for what it is… child abuse.

      • Tom M

        The vast majority of PAS accompanies false abuse allegations. Stop and prosecute the false abuse allegations and you eliminate a LOT OF ABUSE and related problems. But, that starves the DV industry and all their hangers-on and thus cannot be tolerated…

    • http://rebukingfeminism.blogspot.com Red0660

      They responded by banning him from his children? So when will things turn violent in western nations?

  • Ben

    This is quite probably the most informative, convincing, and concise article on feminism, its basis and path, from an anthro / fitness selection standpoint I have ever read! Outstanding work, Manuel. I feel that it is absolutely crucial to point out the basics, as you have done here, when trying to inform the general public about the MRM and the virtually invisible femi-fascism crisis. I have had much more success pushing red pills when I start by explaining that women control reproduction and access to sex, whereby largely controlling men, including powerful men. Pointing out the biological origin of gynocentrism is like a skeleton key for unlocking the collective blue pill psyche.

    At first I was reluctant to try to recruit a member of the general public to the MRM using this angle but, astonishingly, many uninformed persons absolutely eat this stuff up! I can only speak for myself, but I often start by talking of peacock tails and girraff necks to try to explain the very basics of natural and sexual selection (most people don’t even know the most basic of the basics). Then, I move into the notion of the disposibilty of males, how and why that was naturally selected for group survival, and how such factors shaped our culture up to and including our highest levels of government. This approach has been most successful for me.

    When people do not understand these basic concepts, they are likely to resist what we say and force us to answer questions such as, “Why is this so? How could what you are saying even be possible? If it were as you say, why haven’t I heard this on the news?” It seems to be of omni importance to point out the biological premise of gynocentrism and femi-fascism in order to convince anyone that what we say is true. I have found that without first explaining the said biological premise I will often be unsuccessful of convincing anyone of anything even after showing them examples of misandry and sexism against men until I am blue in the face. People need to know why, or “how” for that matter, our claims can possibly be true. I am completely convinced that this biological approach to explaining the men’s crisis to the general public is to be the opening move. It makes our claims seem possible.

    The most polished presentation with hundreds of examples of proof of the misandric stronghold in our society will be a waste of time if people cannot first relate to “how” this can be possible. Presenting examples before hand-feeding the ignorant masses a crash course on human evolution and the fact that females control and manipulate males by turning on and off sexual access to males is like using a morning star to tear down a fortress. The wall (that is, their information filter) has to come down first, then the morning star (facts) will work (sorry for being so metaphorical).

    Without explaining the whys and hows, it often results in blue pillers, even after they are convinced, for the most part by what we are saying, in making a U-turn and rejecting our validity at a later time. I have done a lot of thinking about this and started realizing one thing: When a scientist conducts an experiment, and finds results that are consistent with his expectations, he will be easily conviced and numerous replicated studies will not seem necessary. However, when the scientific findings are completely unreasonable and inconistent with his original intuition, a hundred more experiments with the same results and unshakable proof may still have him feeling a little leary of his findings. This, IMHO, is why the “whys and hows” need to be understood by our listeners first and foremost.

    This article accomplishes that goal with flying colors.

    • Benjamin

      @Ben,
      Your last point about scientists, and others, was spot on… when it comes to the masses of morons out there.

      That is one of the primary reasons why medicine is so lousy in the “western” world, these days… because any discovery, no matter how well documented and repeated, is rejected as a fairy-tale by M.D.’s, because they don’t have a model for “how” it works… what the mechanics are.

      So, you wrote about the same thing happening among the white knights and manginas… they don’t have a model in their minds, of a world where women hold power and hurt the men. How could that happen?!

      So, no amount of evidence will convince many of them. They need a story to hold onto… not facts.

      • Ben

        Good comments Benjamin. It took me a few months to realize that even perfect, unshakable, scientific data will be rejected by nearly everyone if they do not have a story to hold onto, as you say. People tend to act on what they “feel” or how things “seem” rather than proven statistics or documented examples. When people have an opportunity to learn about things such as men being protectors of women, while women are protectors of themselves, they begin to have some “ahh haa” moments. People need to be “primed” for new information that is contrary to popular belief.

        • http://counterfem.blogspot.com fidelbogen

          Ben: There is another angle to this that you have possibly not considered.

          While I agree that people are VERY slow to let go of their “models” (paradigms), and need a dramatic paradigm-shifting experience of some sort to jolt them out of it, I also realize that paradigm-shifting can happen in a variety of ways.

          Some of these ways are more subtle and gradual. For example, when the people in a social environment start playing with new ideas — even to the point of believing them — then it becomes progressively harder and harder to hold on to an established model.

          A peer group effect sets in, augmenting the power of suggestion. At some point, a critical mass obtains and a marked acceleration of conversion occurs, and then you have a collective paradigm shift when the capacity to doubt new information is fatally compromised.

          Simply knowing that people around you have stopped believing in X, makes belief in X harder to sustain.

          So the trick is, to start slow and small with the conversion process, and build up a demographic snowballing effect.

          One needs to begin with those who are already ‘easy targets’ — and it takes a bit of ‘people sense’ to figure out who these might be. Then, work your way up the ladder to the slightly more difficult targets, etc etc…

          That is how you build critical mass. Do the easy work first, and you will build up the necessary leverage to make the hard work easy at a later stage.

          Never work any harder than necessary; that’s a cardinal rule!

    • Tom M

      Excellent, Ben! You are not only quickly picking up the general and whole principles of the truth of these interrelated gender matters, but didn’t have to go through the ultimate refiners fires (married with children and then divorced…) to help you get it or force you to get it.

      You’re also far ahead of many in spreading the truth, and spreading it to to a group who needs it most – younger men.

      An article, perhaps?

      And perhaps a flier to distribute on KKKampuses across the nation,
      “Why Feminism? Why Chivalry?”

      • Ben

        Thanks Tom. I am going to start writing articles as soon as I feel that I have something of enough value to contribute, which may be very soon : )

  • Fredique

    Domestic Violence protection should be gender neutral so it protects all victims equally regardless of gender.

    As for women controlling all those fields. I don’t think it can be appointed to one gender, but rather a small select group of “elite” whom are both men and women who pull the strings.

    And also that any accusations by a woman should be provided with proof, and that the accused is innocent until proven guilty.

    The above two points combined with Shared Parenting policies for good parents (so good fathers don’t lose contact with their children) are crucial to make the current system more fair for all.

    As for women’s power in reproduction. The general sexual power of women over men has noticeably diminished in recent times: due to products like Fleshlight (sex toy for men), the ability to travel all over the world for love and affection, wide variety of pornography to satisfy sexual needs etc.

    And also the incubation of children (in external uterus) will eventually be a reality as well, albeit probably in the far future for “designer children” who are likely more close to perfection, healthy etc than any human womb child.

  • Stu

    Yes very depressing though that the thing that allows misandry and radical feminism to take control of society…..is men. If it is so hardwired into our biological makeup that we will build a system that destroys our own freedom….is there any hope. Well, there is……it’s called collapse.

    There is one other hope. Men as a group, have to recognize this biological trait, that in a natural environment may very well serve a purpose, but is obsolete and actually threatens the existence of society itself.

    You see, if we don’t recognize that, then eventually, things will be stacked legally and socially so far against men that there will be not enough men left that are willing to give a rats arse about being productive, having families, or even being law abiding. Things will collapse at that point, and decend into a third world scenario, which would sweep feminism into the rubbish bin in two seconds flat.

    The other thing is to recognize exactly what our primative instincts are driving us to do. A mangina or white knight thinks he is responding to some higher moral standards, but really he’s just driven by pure animal instinctive mindless behavior.

    Once the majority of men are aware, and understand why they have the urge to protect women and grovel to them, at all costs, it’s easier to start building a system that discourages that behavior, or even goes as far as to ban the bahaviors that lead to it. For example, in Islamic societies, the dress code for women was designed so that a woman could not use her womanly charms to influence the behavior of men. Men are not constantly aroused and manipulated by tit and arse displays. Provocative behavior is disallowed. Virtually every trick in the book that women can use to obtain advantage from men, and control of men, is forbidden. Extreme in some countries, yes, but it works.

    The reason women protest so strongly that they should be allowed to dress anyway they wish in public, is exactly because it is a tool of controlling men. This only works for reasonably attractive women, and only as long as all women are not doing it.

    I believe that all successful civilisations developed rules governing behavior that discouraged, or banned, the primative primate behavior of both sexes, in order to harness the productive and positive contributions of both sexes towards building and maintaining a society. In order to do that, you have recognize the primative urges that promote the behavior that is detrimental to developing and maintaining society. e.g. Hypergamy in the female

    Basically, if men can’t have families, where the children are theirs, and keep them in tact…..there is little hope for civilisation. In fact, it would have never gotten off the ground at all until the situation arose where those conditions could be met. Anyone that thinks overwise……show me a civilisation that was built without that condition being met

    • Snark

      “and only as long as all women are not doing it.”

      Yet each individual woman will do it, since she seeks to gain advantage over her peers.

      This is where slutdom fails.

    • Raven01

      Men allowed it to happen and it is up to us to stop it.
      We collectively embraced the experiment and it has failed miserably.
      Great comment, you have motivated me to try approaching my Member of Parliment here on such issues, particularly the DV groups locally that openly admit “male victims do not matter”.
      And not I think I’ll go more “in your face” and show up at the next take back the night march in a t-shirt from here
      http://www.zazzle.ca/anti+feminist+gifts
      by mensrightsguy, as much as I loathe giving money to a company that also sells misandric garbage.

      • http://www.coldinkstainedhands.wordpress.com Patrice Stanton

        1) I am a woman. 2) I am anti-feminazi/anti-femi-facist/, etc. 3) That Zazzle designer, “mensrightsguy” isn’t too swift [“I hate feminist” ??!] and his products are WAY overpriced.

        I’m a better designer and use CafePress. Tell me what you want on a shirt (and if you want it for white/light colored T’s AND dark/black t-shirts or just one color-group) and I’ll put it up on Cafepress and bring the link here. AND make the mark-up a ‘mere’ $2 per item over their price.

        Though I ‘try’ not to use them in speech or writing, I’d consider using “4-letter words” in the designs with a proviso.

        Patrice

        p.s. In answer to the ‘what are you doing': I am a fledgling writer in the Spec Fiction/Dystopian genre; my ‘near-future’ worlds are meant to be a wake-up call in several ways, not the least of which is due to their man-hating, decidedly Feminist-gone-amuck political/cultural/civilizational climate.

        • http://counterfem.blogspot.com fidelbogen

          I just visited your blog. I can see that you are a person with smarts and talent. You are also female.

          You are just the kind of person we need more of in the non-feminist sector.

          So, it is good to see you around.

          Since you are into graphic design, you might think about doing bumperstickers and the like…?

    • Benjamin

      @Stu,

      You couldn’t have said it better, when you wrote, “if men can’t have families, where the children are theirs, and keep them intact…..there is little hope for civilisation.”

      99.999% of the people don’t get that. It is male characteristics that make all of us able to survive and thrive… the men, the children, and the women. Male ego, male competitiveness, male co-operation (clannishness, the tendency to form teams), male jealousy (“zealous” and “zeal” are actually the same words as “jealous” and “jealousy”). These are the traits that make safety and happiness possible in the world, and make us able to have food and clothes and luxuries.

      But, may I say my friend, that “civilization” is our enemy, too? In a country having good laws, there wouldn’t be much “civilization”. Men who are civilized are those who have been tamed enough to live in the cities and work for “the man”. Civilized men are cattle.

      Let me put it this way. There are a few men (some alpha’s, in the MRM model of the world) who are trying to dominate us all, forever; and keep us working to produce lots of economic output… so that they can take almost all of it, and get richer and more powerful every year.

      That group is who wants us “civilized”. And that group is who wants feminism to thrive.

      If men were permitted to have their families (their children, their women, etc), then men would not work so hard at things that transfer the fruit of their labor to the alpha’s… and they wouldn’t spend a lot of time in the cities.

      @Stu, you also hit it right on the head, about Islam.

      Most all of you won’t want to hear it… but classic liberalism will never lead to success or happiness.

      Islam is a religion wherein the manwoman relationships are set, about 30 degrees too strict. If we’re looking for the straight and good way, Islam is 30 degrees too far to the right of center.

      Western countries are about 150 degrees too far left. About 150 degrees too lenient toward- and empowering of- women.

      The truth is that we need only to turn back to the Torah.

      There we’ll remember that women have the right to complain about domestic violence and then leave their husbands… if he knocks her eye out, or breaks one of her bones, or even just knocks one of her teeth out. You may think that’s not enough power for the women… but the other alternative is visible to you today, outside your window.

      Turning back to obeying the Torah of Yhwh, we’ll remember that inheritance of property is only to the sons (not the daughters, and a double-slice to the firstborn son. This will cause every woman naturally to seek to cooperate with and productively work together with a man, who will inherit from his father… rather than try to divide the inheritance of her own father and burn through the money for her pleasure and wasteful comfort. Money that some man earned, not her.

      (My great aunties did this, here in the USA. Grandpa wanted to develop on the inheritance land, but the two sisters simply wanted to cash it out. Grandpa’s hand was forced, since these females were extended inheritance “wrongs”, and the land sold for its farm value. Now, a few years later, that is the most expensive township for luxury homes in this area, and part of Great-Grandad’s old farmland is a PGA tour golf course and a resort. There go the family fortunes.)

      Obeying the laws of the almighty, who endowed us with certain and unalienable rights, we’ll move back to the good, old way… when a woman who made a false claim that her husband slapped her (or even a true claim that he slapped her) would be told to go home and not piss him off, next time. (By the way, that system is still in place and is normal, in most countries today.) Wow! That would be terrible! A system of rewards wherein women are incented to make their husbands happy and content, and wherein there is negative response to bad attitudes, etc! My my.

      But, if MRA’s keep standing on the idea of men and women being treated the same, by our legal framework, then there is no hope for the MRM.

      The day when women are rational, honest, accountable, responsible, ashamed of the failings, etc… that day is not coming. It never has occurred, and we ought to stop pretending that it will. They cannot be made rulers nor jurors, nor any of that. They weren’t made for that. And, they are some of the most wonderful things in the world… but they’re not any of those things I just mentioned.

      • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

        “But, if MRA’s keep standing on the idea of men and women being treated the same, by our legal framework, then there is no hope for the MRM.”

        That is the legal framework that we have. To make a 180° turn as you suggest would require a dismantling of the legal framework which is an impossible proposition. While the idealist perspective is interesting, I’m a realist and a pragmatist.

        • Benjamin

          @Denis,

          Hey, Dennis. I imagine that you were sincere, in what you wrote… but it’s still making me laugh a little.

          You don’t really think that it is too dificult to turn back 50 years worth of changes, do you?

          Our legal framework supports what I wrote, very well. Heck, repeal a couple of constitutional amendments from the last couple generations, and you’re done. So, you couldn’t really have meant that to be a “pragmatist” requires resignation to failure. (For example, “equality” teaching.)

          lol

          Besides, I said we needed to turn 150 degrees… not 180. :-)

          No, our legal framework (while it needs to be changed, sure) will support the requirements I laid out above, quite well. There is no difficulty there.

          And, if anyone in MRM is even slightly interested in success, then take your cue from the sodomy movement, of the past couple generations. They have succeeded in getting the 15 things that they wanted, because they demanded 45 things… extremely further than their real goals and needs.

          You don’t get where you need to go by asking for only what you absolutely need, and then compromising from there… that’s your pragmatism, I guess. You get there by demanding the whole kitty, fighting for it, and then compromising from there.

          FYI

          • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

            It’s not just 50 years of changes. Women were getting pussy passes over 100 years ago for killing their husbands and the tender years doctrine was made law in 1839.

            While you advocate for 150° turn, I might be targeting for say the 90° turn. Your 150° turn is extremely unpopular and turns people off, my 90° turn has relevance to many modern men and women.

            That’s not resignation to failure, that’s recognition of the massive amount of work for MRA’s.

          • Benjamin

            @Denis,

            You seem not to be bringing to mind that this isn’t just an intellectual experiment… but the real world.

            Every Mutt needs a Jeff. Every good cop needs a bad cop.

            Every person who is turned off by men calling for good and right solutions (that’s me), will as a result feel a closer affinity to those men who are calling for not-yet-good-enough solutions (that’s you).

            Feminazism has always turned off the majority of sheeple. But, Denis… they’re winning.

            Sodomy has always repulsed the large majority of the people… but, dude, they’re cleaning up. (Or making a mess, depending how you look at it.)

            Amigo, you cannot win by putting forth a message that’s appealing to the masses. But, we do need a few folks who will spin it the most appealing way, for the masses, once in a while. (That could be your job!)

            Peace,

          • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

            It’s not happening Benjamin, christians are not turning back to obeying the Torah of Yhwh and it is not popular among youth. That is the world we are living in.

            I also don’t like other people dictating my life on one extreme or the other. For me, the MRM is a men’s liberation movement.

          • Benjamin

            Denis… you zeta male, you.

            I’d appreciate it, genuinely, if you would quit with the garbage about “other people dictating your life”, and “extremes”, etc. Those are really just ad hominem attacks, with smoother words.

            Likewise, I shouldn’t probably have rattled your cage as much as I did.

            So, I am only asking you to be honest with me, and the other readers. This board is having a conversation, or a list of people’s inputs, about changing the world, the government, society, the legal system, etc. Yes, you very much are contributing your ideas about how to change “the world we are living in”, and how to “dictate” the way people live their lives.

            I am just pointing in the direction of what will work. You need not be angry about it… you’re probably just feeling pissy about it, because it doesn’t come from your exact type of mindset.

            Lastly, the points I made to you are about liberating men… just as you wrote, too. Almost everything that needs to be done, for us to come into compliance with what’s right, consists of removing various bad law… that is to say increasing liberty.

            The laws in the Torah (the word means “the directions”, by the way), are much fewer and less complicated than what we have now, in the West. So, I kinda have to call “bullshit” on you, when you resort to saying that you don’t want people dictating your life. Because this guy talking to you is telling folks to stop dictating your life, through feminist balderdash. Don’t bite my leg for it, sen~or.

          • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

            Sure, I’d like men to think for themselves and consider all the possibilities for their lives and not restrict themselves to black and white thinking. That’s liberation.

            As much as you dislike feminists, that doesn’t mean that your ideologies are an acceptable replacement.

          • http://avoiceformen.com Tom

            The question is not if it will turn back, but when and not why it will turn back but how. Fred Reed wrote a piece recently about a new book by Jared Taylor:
            http://www.fredoneverything.net/Jared.shtml

            Things can change very rapidly when we give up political correctness and acknowledge that there is a two-tier society. One thing not addressed in Fred Reed’s article is where Feminism fits into the picture. With collapse and fragmentation happening all around us, we can probably turn back 200 years of changes very quickly.

          • Benjamin

            Tom, I appreciate your saying so.

            (Thanks for the link, too… I’ll read it.)

            You’re saying what people sometimes don’t want to believe.

            A lot of people think that social, and even geologic, processes happen gradually. But, you’ve hit it right on the head. The things we MRM-types rail against… they’re all about to go away quickly. Explosively.

            I hope that people will learn which way things ought to go, so that we can steer them that-away. Because, things are about to move /somewhere/!

            Peace.

      • thehermit

        The first step should be to close all the sperm banks and not donate anymore. That would be some kind of male empowerment.

      • J.G. te Molder

        Obeying the laws of the almighty, also has us stoning adulterers, stoning people who play with a leather ball, ie 90% of the entire male world population, hacking rape victims to pieces and sending them out to our relatives, then hunt down the rapist and kill him/her… and then kill every single last of his/her family members, men, women, and children, we’d be taking priests at infallible word and hand our kids over to them to be abused by some of them, be the slaves of nobility, and whatnot. For three thousand years we followed the good book, and for 2,800 years of it we were all oppressed slaves of a tiny elite. And for the last 50 we’re heading right back to that status quo, only this time the religion is feminists, the nobility is bankers, and the knights enforcing their rule is women always ready to cry rape, and the manginas running to their cause.

        No, it’s time all religion goes the way of the dinosaurs, and we teach our children the methods of rationality and critical thought and the scientific method in school. As well as all the science of truth that shows how society works, and how people can try to manipulate it so our children are armed against it. This would include human biology, the power of sex versus resources.

        • Eff’d Off

          Please write a longer piece about this and send it in to our Paul..

          You voiced one of my core beliefs 100 percent.

        • guest

          Excellent comment, so very true, I agree with just about all of this comment.

      • http://counterfem.blogspot.com fidelbogen

        “The day when women are rational, honest, accountable, responsible, ashamed of the failings, etc… that day is not coming.”

        This may or may not turn out to be true. But pending the arrival of the necessary definitive proof, my policy is to be “agnostic” upon this question.

        Thus, you will never hear me going around preaching — as some will do — that “women are mercenary children by their nature.”

        I have no doubt that some women are that way, but I leave open the gate of possibility that others are not.

        So. . . finally: I allow every woman the necessary latitude to prove that she is what she is.

        I stand back, I stand clear, and I watch.

        And whatever she eventually proves herself to be, I hold her duly accountable.

        But I don’t start with any preconceptions.

        The idea is to keep an open mind, but weed out the bad apples right quick.

        If one would insist that women are “mercenary”, then I think they would be “mercenary” enough to maximize their ultimate advantage.

        And when feminism proves manifestly destructive of their ultimate advantage, I think we can expect to see women in critical numbers turning against it in a “mercenary” way. ;)

        Such is my vision.

  • Mark G

    Since this is a touchy subject, please try to understand the point that I am trying to make, as I may not be the best person at getting a point across. First, I do not condone rape, because it is an act of violence and should be punishable as such. What I dislike about “rape hysteria” in our society is that rape is a “gender crime”, in that only one gender can commit the crime. Although MRAs try to point out that women are just as capable of crimes that men are, this is not true with rape, simple for this reason: Men are always sexually “on” and programmed to believe that women, and sex with women are the greatest thing in the universe and supposed to be one of (if not THE) goal of the life of a heterosexual male. Therefore if a woman were to “force” herself sexually on a man, the man would not be opposed to this, because this is what he is “supposed” to do.

    How often does popular culture (TV, movies, etc) show a man making an advance towards a woman only to get slapped, punched or even charged with a crime or injured for doing so, presenting the meaning: women (or at least that particular woman) is not interested in the man. Then, look at all the times we are shown situations in which a woman initiates contact and how often does the man oppose the action. Look at commercials like Axe Body spray that specifically show men getting sexually assaulted by women for using their product. At least, it would be considered sexual assault if the genders were reversed. I cannot even think of any time in which a woman is slapped, punched or charged with a crime for initiating sexual contact with a man.

    Picture the story of: A person is in an elevator when a stranger gets on. The stranger suddenly puts their arms around the first person, pulls them close and starts to kiss and fondle them. If the first person is a woman and the stranger is a man, this is a clear sign of rape, or at the least sexual assault. If the first person is a man and the second is a woman, then this is man’s sexual fantasy, worthy of being sent to Penthouse Letters.

    I just dislike the whole rape scenario in our society because it is, yet another thing, that is bad when a man does it, and acceptable when a woman does it. The reason for this is because men are always “on” when it comes to sexual contact with women and they are never, ever told that this is a bad thing. They are kept in a perpetual state of always needing physical contact with women, like a drug addiction, that women will always have this power; women will always have this sexual control, while men will be the controlled. Which is why rape is a gender crime that only men can commit.

    • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

      You’ve described overwhelming societal attitudes and stereotypes about male victims quite well. Unfortunately, you have ascribed this behavior to all men and that simply isn’t true.

      Women also like sex and want sex, they just aren’t portrayed as such. Men don’t always want sex and men aren’t always “on”. Even the obvious average physical difference in strength doesn’t apply to all individuals. In many instances of sexual assault, there is no physical coercion but rather psychological coercion, in which women are perfectly capable of.

      What do you think those societal attitudes about men being always “on” does to boys who are abused by women when they are told that they are supposed to want it?

      • Bombay

        100,000 thumbs up. A real man always wants it – NOT!

    • Mark G

      I am sorry, it appears that I failed to make my point, which is why I started with a disclaimer. Basically I was trying to say that rape is a crime that only men get accused of because they are biologically and socially programmed to want sex, whereas women are informed that it is a choice. I recall a saying when I first joined the MRM many years ago, “When it comes to sex, for men it is a chore, for women it is a choice.” That is what I meant by men being “on”. I don’t mean on, always, just “on” when the opportunity arises.
      Therefore a man would never accuse a woman of rape; it is something that only men get charged for.

      >>What do you think those societal attitudes about men being always “on” does to boys who are abused by women when they are told that they are supposed to want it?<<
      Yes, that is what I am saying is part of the problem. Men\boys are told by society that they are supposed to want it, which leads to a situation where men would not accuse a woman of rape or sexual assault, because they are programmed to "want it".

      • Snark

        I think most people agree with you, Mark. The way it was phrased in the previous post made it seem like it was your point of view that men are always sexually ‘on’, when actually that’s the point of view you were attacking.

        • Mark G

          Lesson learned for me: If I think that my post needs to being with a disclaimer, then I probably should not post it. Heh. ;)

      • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

        It was a bit vague and needed clarification, but I didn’t automatically assume ill intent.

      • http://avoiceformen.com Tom

        While men overwhelmingly get accused more often, some women (mainly teachers and caretakers) get accused of rape and sexual assault, too. There was the case of Tonya Craft http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20004832-504083.html last year. It’s sad to see women use the same tactics on other women that we well know are used against men with impunity. It’s one of the reasons that False Rape Society http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com has on its marquee “Giving voice to the men and women harmed by false rape accusations”

    • J.G. te Molder

      Also notice how all those women who trow themselves at men in those commercials are super hot women of ultimate fantasy?

      Picture it with Slut Walk crowd, ugly women, disgusting women, and heavily overweight women. Picture becomes different, doesn’t it?

      The problem is not that what those women do is sexual assault and isn’t called as such, quite the contrary. The problem is that when men do it is called sexual assault when it isn’t. A man should be able to signal to women he wants them and use innuendo and his physical presence and even touching without being asked to. And indeed, that is in fact entirely okay – as long as women are attracted to you. And that is the problem.

      Nothing should be a sexual assault let alone rape, until there is (attempted) forceful coercion while the victim is telling you they don’t want it and are fighting back.

      If merely looking suggestively, smiling wrongly, putting your arm around someone, giving a suggestive touch from man to woman is a crime, it is criminalizing all heterosexual conduct. And indeed, for those feminists claiming all hetero sex is rape, that’s exactly what they want.

  • Rad

    As I have written elsewhere, this coercive system we have in place incentivizes women to take advantage of men, and men to be suspicious of women. This morphs consensual heterosexual sex into a dysfunctional and unhealthy activity on a culture-wide scale — and pits male against female in an unending power struggle.

  • Eff’d Off

    Yuk !

    That same company cranks out the following venom all for the sake of making more money for the execs and stock holders who can buy more things for “me me…. more things, me.”
    There is no other motivation and fuck me if it causes a few problems eh !

    Nope count me out. I’d rather be stranded on an island and forced to listen to Kylie Minogue, Liberace, Bette Midler and that git Barry Manilow on a never ending loop for fucking ever and ever.

    Yeah, take a look at these slices of hate and remember that t h e only reason for their existence is to be as siren-bots with little crowbars poking at your wallet.

    Any penny to these cunts is a penny used to make their machine possible.

    They get nothing from me except a burning effigy of Kellett “Doc-Martin kicked” right up their clackers.
    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Cap314tture.JPG[/img]

    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Capherhwwwerhture.JPG[/img]
    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Captesrhgure.JPG[/img]
    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Capture.JPG[/img]

    • Eff’d Off

      P.S.

      The company I am referring to calls itself “Zazzle.”

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

    “Women control human reproduction.”

    As Stu mentioned, this is an important issue for discussion and one that I would really like to learn more about, especially the various pro-con arguments and biological bases.

    Is this always true in other species? I spend a lot of time at “African Lion Safari” (canadian version). I watch the peacocks and that seems to be case. The lions are quite active (I took video). There were only two males in the pride, the older was obviously dominant and had his choice but there were so many females that the younger one got some too. The females were not very discerning, they were obviously in heat and very receptive to either of the males. The goats and other herd animals are much the same. What about the ducks? Most of them are already on their nests and the few remaining females are chased to exhaustion by groups of males. In modern western society women have their right to choose, but in other cultures with dowries and arranged marriage there doesn’t seem to be women’s control of human production.

    Great article and excellent references as always.

    I’ll further add that reference [3] doesn’t break down the perpetrators of sexual abuse, which is often the case for these government reports. I suspect there is a motive to maintain stereotypes rather than expose them. Also from reference [3], 64.7% of all investigations were unsubstantiated and for all cases of child maltreatment, 80% involved a parent and for all cases of sexual abuse, only 27% involved a parent. There a lot of additional interesting observations such as the risk of fatality is higher for boys across all age groups and especially for infants. This report doesn’t break down the perpetrators of child fatalities(^motive^), but other data consistently show the biological mother being the greatest perpetrator. (Canada2008, Mother and other 35.5%, Father and other 14%, Father and Mother 21.5%, Other 29%) Further breakdown by age of child, shows that mothers are especially skewed as perpetrators against younger children.

    in this system men cannot reasonably trust women.

    • Tom M

      The family terrorist:

      “If mama ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy!!!”

      “Your mama brought you into this world, and she can take you right back out of it.”

      The family protector is the FATHER, but you’d never know that from educators, media, police, courts, politicians and their hangers-on.

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

    “in this system men cannot reasonably trust women.”

    Perhaps more related, a feminist eats the red pill:

    Despite no evidence, despite the fact that she is obviously a troubled woman, despite other attempts by her in the past to accuse people of hurting her in some way, despite her own admissions of wanting to sue others still, despite my son’s spotless record and the support of myriad women who have known him for years, the state has chosen to pursue this “case.”

    If you think that women don’t lie to get back at men, how naive can you be? Yet we live in a culture of “women don’t lie,” a culture fostered by women’s groups since the 70s. A culture I helped create and support. A philosophy I believed.

    Now there are women’s groups with a strong political voice. There are women in political office, policewomen, and so on. Men and women now are predisposed to believe women when they accuse someone of rape. It is sometimes a knee jerk reaction that we have not evaluated for its veracity. We have not wanted to hear that women sometimes lie. The system has supported all women even those who lie.

    They’ve made it easy for them. If it is proven that a woman has lied, they are not prosecuted. They are at most sent to counseling. And being a “victim” can be intoxicating to some. It can let them off the hook for being responsible for their own actions.

    http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/05/women-lie–anonymous/

    Have you seen this blog?

    http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com

    • Patrick Henry

      A conversion of a hard core feminist gives me hope.

    • http://avoiceformen.com Tom

      Paul ought to interview the writer of owningyourshit.blogspot.com. Very interesting writing there.

  • Luek

    Women do control 100% of the sex this is true. And they do use it to manipulate this is also true. But if sex is so damned great and worthy of selling ones soul for then why do we refer to things that are overrated, second rate or disappointing as “not worth a fuck?”

    • BeijaFlor

      Maybe because “fuck” was considered the most obscene word in the language, back when I was young? It still has some sting in it.

      Personally I prefer “not worth a shit”.

  • Kimski

    I’ve read somewhere that the guy who invented the pill regrets it to this day, due to the sociological problems it has created. He is now making theater-pieces about science for the stage.

    I’ll bet he doesn’t regret it half as much, as a certain percentage of the male population does.

  • http://www.intellectualwarfare.wordpress.com David Green

    Manual the real ugly truth is that the average male is as unworthy of trust as the average female.

    • Patrick Henry

      I have to call BS on this one David. Get out in the real world much?

      • http://www.intellectualwarfare.wordpress.com David Green

        @ Patrick

        Men are competitors and only a FOOL trusts a competitor.

    • Herbal Essence

      Even if this were true, the point is that female evil is enabled by our society, while good men are punished for the actions of bad men.

      • Tom M

        “…for the very highly EXAGERATED actions of bad men.”

      • http://www.intellectualwarfare.wordpress.com David Green

        Yet Herbal it is dishonorable men who do the punishing and there are many more dishonorable men in this world then honorable. Hence I do not trust men any more than I do women as men are as un-worthy of trust as women.

    • Keyster

      One thing the majority of women lack, that the majority of men have…
      …is honor.

      Women used to at least have dignity, but they’ve lost that as well.
      Women cannot be trusted with power, because they’ll excersise it over men.
      …or maybe you haven’t noticed this happening lately.

      • http://www.intellectualwarfare.wordpress.com David Green

        Re: “One thing the majority of women lack, that the majority of men have…
        …is honor.”
        _____________________

        Keyster if the majority of men were truly as honorable as you FALSELY claim then there would never have been a need for the Men’s Movement. As men who are truly honorable do not willfully mistreat other men but dishonorable men do.

        • Raven01

          Honour can be misled. The “intention” counts for much. It is quite possible to be honourable while still being wrong………
          Enter Chivalry.
          This is misplaced honour. Equating supremacy of women with the good of the whole community. And demanding honourable service of men.
          We know better so such service from any of us would be dishonourable as we could not be acting in good faith.

  • Jabberwocky

    “Unfortunately, simple justice was only a small part of a movement which alert adults now correctly call a hate movement.”

    Yessir.

  • criolle johnny

    Sigh, the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th Amendments were ALL mistakes!

  • stefanie

    Just a thought – women are only around men based on the hope and trust that they will not abuse their superior physical strength. So it goes both ways.
    Don’t get me wrong – I support the MRA. But to say that you cannot reasonably trust women? This would also mean that women can never reasonably trust men.
    Any men, if he so chooses, could kill me with his bare hands. Chances of him getting caught for that are minimal (at least in my country). Any man, if he so chooses, could rape me. Chances of him getting jailed for that are (In MY country) minimal. Any man could harm me in any way he wanted, and still I am alone with men often enough.
    It’s not unreasonable to trust someone with more power. There are many good people, of both genders.

    • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

      Does anyone ever make sense (in YOUR country)?

    • http://pt-br.facebook.com/aldir.gracindo Al

      What country is this, by the way, if you really wouldn’t mind to say?

  • 33mike

    “Women, we men can’t trust members of your sex in this system. There are admittedly few men alert to this fact as yet. The men’s movement is just waking up, there will be more of us. This is not hatred towards women, it’s just awareness and self preservation. ”

    Unfortunately there are many men who we can’t trust either who have betrayed the male race.

    Remember: Thomas Ball’s immolation, he gave his life for your children.

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  • Jo

    “As evidence of this, consider the documented fact that men are far more likely than women to be the victims of violence [1]”
    This is true but you neglect to mention that majority of perpetrators of violence against men are men, and the vast majority of perpetrators of violence against women is women.
    Especially important to note is that of the violence committed against women the majority is committed by their partner – this is not true for men. This is why there is a special category of violence against women, not because there is a conspiracy against men but because the crime being perpetrated by a man or woman against their partner is considered a special case because it is not random, it involves high levels of controlling behaviour and misuse of trust. It is focussed on violence against women because the majority of violence between partners is perpetrated by men. Now I do believe though that it having a specific group for female victims of domestic violence can lead to male victims being neglected and that should be addressed – probably not by getting rid of women’s groups, but by having inclusive domestic violence groups which are not named as women’s groups. However, it is disingenuous of you to simply state that the majority of men are victims of violence without any context.
    “To be sure, here are men who abuse their spouses, but to imagine that this happens in a vacuum and that women in such relationships do not equally abuse, assault, and instigate violence against their spouses is to live in a fantasy world.”
    Really? You think that women who have been hospitalised by their partners or had knives held to their throats or chained up like dogs or electrocuted with a cattle prod are committing equal acts against their partners? It is well known that there is huge issue of power and control in these crimes – which explains why men, who are stronger than their wives, can also be victims of abusive relationships – it is a fantasy to assume that there is equal power in these relationships.
    “In cases where women are the primary aggressor in an abusive relationship, men assaulted by their spouses who seek outside help will find themselves not helped, but arrested, imprisoned, and stripped of their home and children by a legal system which starts with the basic assumption of women’s innocence, and men’s villainy”
    What can I say? Hyperbole.
    As for bias in the legal system, I do agree with you that it is there – it really shouldn’t be as the foundations of justice crumble when the courts cannot be impartial -but is should still be noted the bias exists because of the large majority of domestic violence victims in heterosexual relationships being women. It is a stereotype based on a truth, but a stereotype none-the-less and therefore should not be welcome in the justice system.
    As for the accusation of men being paedophiles, I also emphatically agree with you. There is certainly a bias against men when it comes to perceived risk of abuse. Men and women believe that a strange man is much more likely to commit abuse against their child than a strange woman. In reality the risk of either is extremely low and there is no distinction between the genders in abuse rates.

    • Kukla

      “This is true but you neglect to mention that majority of perpetrators of violence against men are men, and the vast majority of perpetrators of violence against women is women.”
      Kind of irrelevant. Violence is violence.
      “Especially important to note is that of the violence committed against women the majority is committed by their partner – this is not true for men.”
      – Actually men get abused just as much by their partners(if not more) than women do. But men are also the victims of violence elsewhere.
      “This is why there is a special category of violence against women,”
      – No, there’s a special category for women because they’re WOMEN. They get put on a pedestal essentially.
      “It is focussed on violence against women because the majority of violence between partners is perpetrated by men.”
      – Very wrong.
      http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020
      *Results. Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.*
      “but by having inclusive domestic violence groups which are not named as women’s groups.”
      “Inclusive”? Or just Men’s DV groups.
      “However, it is disingenuous of you to simply state that the majority of men are victims of violence without any context.”
      – I think the context was meant to be in general.
      “Really? You think that women who have been hospitalised by their partners or had knives held to their throats or chained up like dogs or electrocuted with a cattle prod are committing equal acts against their partners?”
      – Are you nuts? How many women experience that kind of abuse anyway? A VERY tiny minority. And for all you know they could be. I wouldn’t doubt that many women who have been abused also abuse their partners as well. It isn’t as one-wayed as you think.
      “it is a fantasy to assume that there is equal power in these relationships.”
      – Not really. It doesn’t necessarily mean the power is equal, just that they are both perpetrators.
      “What can I say? Hyperbole.”
      – It’s not a hyperbole, it is a reality in a lot of cases. Maybe not always to THAT extent but pretty close. The whole “Violence against women” craze going on today, now THAT is a hyperbole. Actually more like an outright lie.
      “You think that women who have been hospitalised by their partners or had knives held to their throats or chained up like dogs or electrocuted with a cattle prod”
      – Definite hyperbole.
      “but is should still be noted the bias exists because of the large majority of domestic violence victims in heterosexual relationships being women.”
      – That isn’t the reason for the bias at all, the bias is there because of a false female victimization and privilege in that sector of society. And again, WRONG.
      “It is a stereotype based on a truth,”
      – It is a stereotype, but it isn’t a truth.
      “In reality the risk of either is extremely low and there is no distinction between the genders in abuse rates.”
      – Actually the majority of sexual abuse of children is committed by women(and abuse in general). I have definitely seen statistics on this before but I cannot seem to find them at this time. But it is low either way.
      All you’ve done is just said a lot of the things feminists say, which have been proven false.

  • http://pt-br.facebook.com/aldir.gracindo Al

    Excellent points, JtO! I would rather say it’s not about women in charge, for, as you youself suggests, women in command doesn’t necessarily mean a problem or a solution. The problem is the ideological cognitive distortion: The view of humanity to be poisoned by misandric discourse.

    Your text exposes one important element in violence and hate crimes, man: opportunity. In this system, with this kind of poisoning, people can be terribly harmed just for being a man.

    The system is designed to create 2 levels of citizenship.

    And not only creates opportunity for different kinds of violence, but also encourages it (revenge against “millions of years of patriarchy”).

    Moreover, it’s like a parasite with numbing local toxine, lol… the victims often don’t notice exactly what’s going on… and other potential victims just aren’t paying attention, cause we haven’t been indoctrinated for ONLY 50 years, nope!

  • MOFOSTAN

    What would you call someone who is a feminist but for men? Menist? Yep, has no name.

    Yeah… I’m both a feminist and a “menist”. I’m a woman, but I defend the rights of both men and women. I think that what you have said is all true, except for one small detail. The way you present women by saying that most of us will lower ourselves to blame you and ruin your “near non-person status” is a bit offensive. Of course not all women, but not most either. Just like only few men subjugate and abuse women, same with the opposite occurrence.

    Even though we have been dealing with sexism longer, doesn’t give us, to generalize, a right to oppress men as a gender. Men are not to be oppressed! Neither are women!

    Both men and women are oppressed in different ways and in different measures. They both deserve to have an end at this matter! They both deserve to live in peace and equality for human rights.

    There are things men can do better than women, and there are things women can do better than men, but GOD DAMMIT, when it comes to human rights, discrimination, equality, and justice, we should all be treated the same.

    Being racist is such a taboo in our society now-a-days (but not completely) that it is not politically correct to refer to someone by race, but now by ethnicity. When is the day when the same level of dedication and acceptance is played towards women AND men!? When!?

    Women’s oppression is obvious and bluntly said to the point of redundancy, while men’s oppression are silently visible. They are transparent to society and are not recognized.

    • Kukla

      “Yeah… I’m both a feminist and a “menist”. ”

      Oxymoron.

  • donB

    When I read the book “manliness” by Harvey C. Mansfield, there was a passage, ” Who would have thought that women would seek to become single mothers so fast?”

    The answer is… all men should have known that some women couldn’t be trusted. Men knew women well and that while most of them were/are balanced and good people who didn’t mind the sacrifices they needed to make for the good of our species—helping most people, most of the time, about most things— the bad “apples” will unfortunately influence the rest if given the chance. That is exactly what has happened.

    Inherently, women are selfish. As mothers in care of offspring, they almost have to be. But when they let their nature spoil so much of the other things we also need as a species and hold dear, they turn into exactly what we have today.

    However, not all of the blame is on women; much of it rests on he backs of men—particularly the men of yesteryear and the ones today who still allow feminism to foment and fester into what it has and does.

    The mens movement is not about hatred. It is about repairing. Its goal is to try and fix a world gone mad at the hands of misguided women and apathetic men.

    The men of before did not try hard enough to resist the synthetic replacement scheme driven by a relatively few disgruntled women. Those men confused biological hard wiring with the duties of men. They confused manhood with the physical acts of typical maleness as a sexually reproducing species. They forgot about all the rest of what being a man entails. Today, most men still do—STILL DO!!!

    A man, as protector, should have never let the world, families, and stability unravel like it has in the ways it has over women.

    With things having gotten so bad and against men and boys, as well as the family unit, men should be able to see that the equality promises of feminism were empty lies that sought to provide superiority to females.

    It doesn’t have to be that way. Men can do things to stop this fallout. We CAN return to a more sane approach. But as we are finding out, the task here is huge, for getting mainstream men to actually act on their observations to redo this mistake is the greatest obstacle that faces us. We have our work cut out for us. I sincerely hope that the men of today will grow enough courage to change themselves so they can change the world. That is why I write here. That is what gives me hope.

    I’ve said it before, and I will say it again. I believe our main task as men is to get the average women to see how wrong things are now and motivate them to help men overcome it. When we have the masses of women helping us by turning on the feminists, then we stand our biggest chance at turning this thing around. That again is what the MRM is about. The MRM is good.

    The gaining of cooperation from ordinary women, I think, given this late date, can most rapidly and effectively be achieved by changing the way our boys are socialized to defer ONLY to women to determine their worth, power, image, ego, and happiness. Via these sacrifices of men, when there are literally millions and millions of unhappy, lonely, old-maid women who have seen their lives go by without realizing their most prominent dream of the ideal family structure, then we will generate an army of willing women who will take action to reverse the damage done by obliviously hate-filled, misandric feminists.

    It is late. We must do more than complain…as complaining is the first step out of several lengthy ones. I would like to see an influential national-level organization spring up on behalf of men. I look forward to the International Mens Day. I hope it gets used wisely to bring attention to our cause(s). The more men who participate and tell other men, the better off and successful we will be.

    In addition to writing our congressmen, voting our consciences, retraining our boys, and so on, in the meantime, MGTOW… because if men keep doing as we have so far, we stand no chance at change—except to be erased. Abstaining from women and from trying to have a decent family is uncomfortable. It is enormously sacrificial. It is unnatural. But what other choices do we have? The boys of the future will turn to us men today and say,” What did YOU do to help stop radical feminism’s hatred of males? As for me, I will not have my head hung in shame. I hope you will not either.

    The current chaos is what we get when we do nothing—like our fathers did. We must not repeat those same old mistakes.

    Hindsight is 20/20. There is more to being a man than having sex, getting married, having babies, and letting only THAT give us manly feelings. It is time we learn our lesson and practice all the other things too that entail real manhood.

    Teach the boys differently, example it when you can! They need role models. We are at the 11th hour, so…

    Get busy!

  • Pingback: Women and Trust, The Ugly Truth()

  • Tom

    Dear ladies who read this, take notice of the following.
    We men are’nt close minded, we’re not sexist or “rapists” we can easily call you “whores” for spreading your legs for the money we earn.
    We the male species don’t see too little we see too much, and those of us who haven’t noticed will soon notice, the blind of social equallity is slipping from our eyes and voices are starting to be heard.
    The media does’nt even hide the fact of your love of superiority, childrens TV shows brainwash them with the picture of the idiotic male and the heroic ever smart female belittling him.
    “Pedofiles” a term used for an ADULT with sexual intrests in children, note adult is in capitals and the word male or female isn’t mentioned.
    Equal rights were fought for, world wide for hundreds of years and now “feminists” spit on the hard work of their predecessors who did want equallity in both genders.
    A face off between genders is sure to come sooner or later and hopfully the triumphent will see the light and do what is right and set equality, Deminashing superiority once and for all.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ActorMelody Melody Brooke

    I am a woman who has come to recognize all the things you list here. Yes, men have more physical strength than women; but women have way more power in ways they don’t even acknowledge or recognize. What will revolutionize our culture is for women to recognize that men are even more emotionally sensitive than we are. Women are given all the tools to manage emotions and men told to “man up” and not to even be aware of their softer feelings. In my practice as a therapist I repeatedly see women being completely oblivious to what (to me) is obvious pain in their mates. Women who are supposed to be the more emotionally aware, are often completely blind to the pain men suffer and as a result behave as perpetrators. Until our culture acknowledges that men are capable of being hurt, abused and taken advantage of legally and personally nothing will change. I cringe every time I see a billboard that says “1 in 4 girls are sexually abused” as though the 1 in 6 (reported) boys are not. It is a travesty that perpetuates abuse in our society.

    • Nathan Carlson

      I found this because I’m feeling depressed that after spending a month trying to engage a girl in talk, and two dates and only receiving short terse response from someone who is supposedly interested in my… She tells me that I don’t ask enough questions and talk too much about myself ! I am really trying hard to engage in conversation and try and find topics of discussion, but somehow… Look, I’m at the point of giving up. I’ve had long-term relationships, I’ve been in love, and engaged and I’m really, really tired of hurting. I just want a woman who’s going to trust me, and who is going to try. Those are pretty much my two requirements. (Although I am of a faith where “marrying in the covenant” is a big deal.) I was searching for “I don’t trust women” hoping to find some reason to the madness.

  • ataloss

    Very well written and one of the most insightful, truthful pieces I’ve ever encountered on men’s current plight as a result of Fascist Feminism. Thank you sincerely for such a refreshing article.

    As a man just coming up on his 46th birthday in a few days, I’ve seen many changes in our society throughout my existence. I have a very good memory and recall events many years in the past. Even when I was quite young. As a result, I remember then as well as I remember last week most of the time. The shift in power I’ve seen in my lifespan is quite daunting, to say the very least.

    I consider myself a realist, not a pessimist and at this point in our era I do believe we, as human males, are too late to change what is happening to us. While our plight is most definitely due to the emotionally irrational decisions women have been making for several decades, we men must take much of the blame ourselves. We let it happen just as much as women made it happen. Some may say that we never should have given women control to begin with, but it’s too late for ‘what ifs’ and ‘should not haves’ at this point.

    I am a firm believer in true equality and am far from a chauvinist. However, I believe in equality for everyone. When we look back 100 years ago we are told about women’s strife and their struggle for rights and equality. However, we also see much more well adjusted children, less crime where people come from homes which had enough food, proper shelter and adequate , child-rearing guidance from their parents. Feminism has, for the most part, destroyed any sense of family stability in our society.

    Aside from the strife, grief and horrible inhumanities men face today, the family unit is now a total disgrace. More and more young people are committing horrific crimes because their parents divorced and Mom is too busy with her career and assorted lovers to properly nurture her offspring. Thus, Feminism is destroying the Maternal Instinct human females have been so revered and respected for since the beginning of human bipedal evolution.

    The point of my rant is that while we men are certainly suffering, we cannot forget that human beings overall are also digressing as a result of this Fascist doctrine. Women and men should take a good look around themselves and soak in the scenario. Watch your teenagers. Watch their friends. Take note of their inability to properly communicate with other human beings. Speech is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Texting is now the most predominant form of communication. Rarely do we hear that Feminism plays a huge part in this saddening human communication shift. Which gender is more apt to own a cell phone? A female of course. It’s no secret women are the more sociable gender among our species. How often do men talk for hours on the phone? Or spend hours in a day texting friends, socializing on Facebook and the like? Children see this behavior and pick it up. ‘Monkey see, monkey do.’ Who is the most predominant,. influential figure in a child’s life? Why, Mother of course.

    Feminism is the end of human civilization as we know it. When humans can no longer communicate verbally, family solidarity has crumbled and trust amongst human beings is lost, we cannot survive for long. Unless a massive shift occurs where ALL human beings wake up and see the astounding mistakes we are making, the human race is doomed. This is reality, not negativity.

    What can we do about Feminism and what is doing to the human male? I know not. I truly wish I did.

    Thank you for letting me take the floor for a few minutes.

    JT

  • Frodo
    • tsahpina

      u2

      • tsahpina

        men write history. no woman sends her son to die with pride. its all mens bulshit. there is a beautiful american general’s novel about termopile its calld fire gates.find it on amazon and read it. this man also wrote a novel on alexandar the great thou i cant see what was great about this alexandar. he just went to asia to revenge persians. simple as that. and was gay.

        • Frodo

          “no woman sends her son to die with pride”

          More lies

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather#A_Symbol_of_Cowardice

          • tsahpina

            no one knows the secrets of another persons hearts and especially men on womens and women on mens. most times even the person who feels something deceives her/himself about the feeling.proud about sons death. bulshit. gross crap.
            please go to bed

          • tsahpina

            i am educated and greek. why wouldnt i know. of course i know. and i also know the cause of homosexuality. but what has this do to with the topic on men not trustin women

          • Frodo

            cause of homosexuality?

            That is a debated issue

          • tsahpina

            ps
            it seems to happen in the uterus and has nothing to do with the environment after birth.
            and no choice of course
            it seems to be maternal wrong amount of testosterone on the brain and on the body or both…
            no mistake of the mother.
            of the nature. such things happen. like my hert anatomy errors

        • Frodo

          If you knew anything about Greek culture back then you would know that people practiced bi sexuality back then

    • tsahpina

      ‘dear’ frogo.
      yes,frogo,not frodo. whatever frodo means,frogo means you remind me of a male frog who could not support his bad word about female post with anything of his male own. just gave me a link. it’s his funeral thou.
      good you gave me the link cos did ‘educate’ myself.
      and now is the time for you to get educated.
      the experiments were good,the results were true.
      the interpretation of the results,conducted and drawn by MALE experimentors were totally wrong and you,as an angry male did not see the real truth in the results cos they suited you as they were interpreted cos they superficially look so to a…well,male.
      to come to the results.
      the bias of course exists. ut it’s not actually a bias. t is not the result of some fault in women,but it is the result of women’s whole life’s experience. women do like women more for the simple reason that women are better people than men are. normal men agree with this too. btw my son is a better mother,and of courese a perfect father to his two toddler sons than their biological mother. she says she and her husband,my son,should not have had children and instead they would party all their life. being a mother of two,one has autism,makes her suicidal cos she cannot go out,they are poor too cos she never worked,while my son is fighting like a lion for the kids. he says she is crazy. i am not biased towards women,i just want to see good men as sons,husbands and fathers and i HAVE seen them apart from my son,it’s two non related to me men,not aggressive at all and my sister’s son,which sister is like my daughter in law. so good a mother that one of her sons committed suicide. i have seen her fridge completely empty four times while she still had her faceal creams and nice clothes and i once saw my nephew EATING SUGAR cos there was virtually nothing to eat for him,his brother their dad and my sister. and she finally cheated on her husband instead of divorcing him. he had developed epilepsy. to go on with my story.men do’t so much or at all like other men cos they are competitors against each other for best females so call alpha females,the young and beautiful. and now-days with money and status too. nobody likes their competitors for a so important and serious prize as is reproduction with alpha females reproduction of own genes and sending them into the future. natural drive. it’s a biological imperative for men. in the meanwhile,while males fight and kill each other for a f.ck with an alpha female and females,males want harems,i am talking about mammals and especially primates as humans are top primates but being top does not prevent us from being animals,primates. so meanwhile the females,women that is,wait until the best,alpha,male,man,wins the rest of the losers,losers for this reason hate women instead of hating alpha males or their bad genes. then,all the females alpha and omega ones together,want to mate with exactly that alpha male,in order to obtain his best genes for their,women’s,children. and his money to raise the children. money,not only for the children,cos mom and kids are a package,don’t go apart till they grow up,money for mom too,cos kids can’t be happy if mom lives lousy and they well.
      not only women,but men too,only naturally prefer their mother,cos she is in nature usually the only parent and she gives it all while fathers contribution,money,if there is a good father around,children don’t regard this.
      women do associate male gender with aggression and violence cos men ARE generally aggressive and violent. women also associate males with much more urging desire for sex than women need. this is because women have 5-10 times less testosterone than men do. testosterone’s role is sex desire,so women need it. but it is also aggression hormone. females need it except for sex in order to defend themselves but primarily their kids from all kinds of danger,cat hides her kittens from their father cos he would EAT them up! a woman does not have to educated to know that men are aggressive much much more than women. and with reason. to fight other males for reproduction with the best females. men would have harems if they could,and still call themselves civilized people,if they could. muslims do it. beasts. a woman’s exerience from her own life and the life of women she knows or she has read about or seen on tv tells her what beasts men are. my husband beat on me. my father cheated on my mom. women like that,cheaters,are much more rear,statistics say it. leave alone prostitutes. a stick has two ends. no woman would be able to sell sex if there were not men ready to buy it. they both sell and buy sex,a mutual exchange,sex that for most women and rare men is the other word for love.
      maternal bonding with her child,girl AND BOY,is inborn both in mothers and their babies,while getting to love one’s biological father,when he is actively and not only passively present at home,is learned both for kids and for their father. if at all… in a word,men are not natural sociological fathers to their biological kids in mammals. in most bird species yes but we are no birds. that’s why our organisms disagree with gluten in grains. it also disagrees with lactose and casein in other species’ milk and especially after two years of life but this is another lesson for you froggy.
      women intimidate men cos men deserve intimidation. who would respect a human male who at the same time behaves like a primate and wants to be treated like a human man. nobody. only his mom loves him cos moms loves their piggies too. in short most men are pigs. but not all. what percentage of good men is there,i have no idea but it is growing. my generation was bad, my fathers even worse. my son’s better. and his sons will never even shout. cos men still believe in their natural ‘right’ solve arguments with loud voice threats and fist. just like animals,at he same time stating they are humans,while they want us women to respect them. ha ha ha! i mean good joke. and not only that. they marry one woman,moslems 4,and then they want another but stay married with the first. what idiots. women usually leave their husband for a lover except if the husbands have money and lovers are young beautiful but poor. i never said women can’t be bitches. my sister is. but this is an exemption while what astards men do in this region is a rule. good men are the exemption.
      men also intimidate women in other fields. they believe,poor bastards that women are less intelligent as gender and that women have worse character than men do. it’s so silly and penis like’reasoning’ that i will not even comment on it. these women that men intimidate,not generally that they also do,but particularly some women,seem to deserve it in these men’s opinions. they don’t know what they are talking about. nor do you my male froggy.
      the truth is what the well known,not to you of course,psychiatrists in the beginning and the middle of the twentieth century associate of freud said about women’s neurosis.. he said whatever women do to men and generally whatever is obviously wrong with most and more with some women on a psychological basis,is caused by men’s behavior towards women.in history of humankind and in a personal history of a woman. its REVENGE. he calls it women’s revolution. it’s especially accentuated after the introduction of the PILL and sexual revolution that followed. revenge…and deserved hundreds of times fold.
      i understand men,i have a son,i understand their urge for poligamous sex violence and aggression. it belongs to their nature.
      what i don’t understand is how they dare call themselves civilized acting like primates.
      you guys have to choose. either a cultured man or a primitive ape.
      so,what women do to men is a part of a game men and women play,war that is. everything would be ok if only the very existence of the war and the rules of how to play the game and fight the war were not invented by MEN. MEN ALONE. women are forced to join.
      finally,if there is god,it is and it,not a he. it is also without colour and not white (male). god was invented by men.
      in the whole of human history white men have maltreated blacks and women. so the worse off are black women and the winners of the game is HIS MAJESTY BEAUTIFUL YOUNG RICH WHITE MALE.
      her rules the world and sh..ts at all the rest,worse off men too. and the simpletons hate women for choosing such men. losers.
      i am a feminist this is obvious. but i am a feminist with awareness and logic. i have just told you a millionth of my mind. don’t ask for more cos you will lose,loser,froggy. niki. my name means victory.

  • Frodo
    • tsahpina

      FROGO I GOT YOU. YOU ARE A WOMEN HATER. LOSERS USUALLY ARE. AND I AM A FEMINIST. ONE WOULD SAY WOMEN LOSERS USUALLY ARE. BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. I HAVE A SON AND I DISLIKE ONLY PATRARHAL MEN WHILE YOU DISLIKE WOMEN IN GENERAL. IT IS TRUE THAT MOST MEN HERE IN GREECE ARE PATRIARCHAL SO I DISLIKE MOST GREEK MEN. BUT I BELIEVE YOU DON’T LIVE IN THE SOUTH EAST. SO YOU DISLIKE FOR WOMEN IS NOT TIED WITH SOME WOMEN BUT WITH WOMEN IN GENERAL. I,HAVING A SON UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT PATRIARCHAL MEN ARE LIKE IS ONLY NATURAL. WHAT I DETEST IS THEIR TRYING TO STATE THEY ARE CIVILIZED MEN WHILE THEY ARE LIKE BEASTS. BUT YOU,YOU DISLIKE THE VERY IDEA OF FEMININITY. I SUGGEST YOU READ THIS PSYCHIATRISTS ALBERT ADLER ON WOMEN’S NEUROSIS AND THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND BETTER THAT WHAT APPEARS TO YOU AS BAD CHARACTER OF WOMEN IS ONLY THEIR REACTION TO MANY MILLENIA OF MEN’S PRESSURE ON WOMEN,LIKE APES DO,WHILE AT THE SAME TIME SAYING THEY ARE CIVILIZED HUMANS. MY ASS THEY ARE! YOU CANT HAVE BOTH,BEING AN APE AND CIVILIZED. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CIVILIZED APE. BUT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT GREEK MEN AND ALL MUSLIMS ARE. AND MANY OTHER ROUND THE GLOBE…

    • tsahpina

      now you are being a gentleman which does not mean that i dont have to be a lady.
      but you started the insults first. i said many nasty things about you but you said one nasty thing,bogus,which probably means bullshit or crap,which equals all i said about you. it is true that what i said is projection but only partly. the truth is my i grew up in a country which had been for almost four and a half centuries under turk occupation. my fatherland. my motherland greece had been under turks for a little less time,’just’ four centuries. turks are muslims and muslims are beasts to women and children. their society is male society. horrible. so they left their blood trace in both my counties on men of these countries. and on women too in a way,the way they had been submissive to male malteating them. but not after the PILL. i am a bayboomer. of 47. when i was a teenager the sexual revolution and freedom from male boot for women was in full blow in england. and i went to london in my twenty and stayed there long enough to get the germ of women’s freedom from idiot men. on top,my mother was uni educated,graduated in 39 and having been a foreigner,refugee,in my fatherland,was brought up by a spinster. these two fact made her a feminist and thus she,’helped’ by my fathers falocratic behavior at her and us three GIRLS,made me a feminist. reading a lot on psychology and sociology i gradually became a very strong feminist. and when i repatriated to my motherland greece,where i found the same shit in another package,i gradually became radical feminist. this was ‘helped’ by greek strong racism against anybody who is not greek but has no money. previously i of course had married an equally backwards husbands. he was not unfaithful but was illiterate. the third contribution for my radical feminism was literature psychology and sociology i read daily in order to find out why people are idiots especially men. i know there is something in human nature and i mean in men’s nature in particular,the law of jungle and the male dominance against women and all the weaker,cos of their bigger muscle mass and strength due to so much testosterone in them,but it’s not only their nature. it’s cos they can. so i strongly object whenever and wherever i can to such phenomena especially anonymously cos otherwise i mean if i did it in their face i would get beaten by them and i would also shame my son this way. so i bark on the internet. but i am only saying the truths that i lived or learned reading.
      you sent me a link on home violence. i havent read it yet and i feel sick about finding out,cos it was stated by victims or victimizerez,not by witnesses which only count,remember i am a daughter of two layers,judge and solicitor,and a jurist myself,so i dont trust what people say. people say different things from different biases and motifs. who cares what people say. but i will read it. before i have read it ill tell you that scientifically and statistically the victims of home violence are women and to a less degree children. the victimizers are husband/father mostly brothers and other male relatives. but in most cases its the husband beats the wife. mine beat me. end of story.

      • Frodo

        .” the victimizers are husband/father mostly brothers and other male relatives”.False.

        And bogus means false

        http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

        • tsahpina

          i normally google the words i dont know but sometimes while i am typing an answer of somethig,and then google,i may lose the text i had written. so i dont google while i am typing somthing i want to send somewhere
          as for attackers not usually being husbands sexual partners fathers brothers rearly and other males even more really the britis report you sent me says its so and my experience of life says so too.
          your shortness of expression makes it impossible to talk to you cos i have a feeling you dont want to talk. you just throw stones at me bogus ones and then you leave me to talk. so i refuse it from now on. but ill finish answering what i found after i had sent you my report on the british report.
          i did not live with british feminist. my fatherland my father and my mother and my reading of stuff made me feminist. i have no idea what you are talking about saying that feminists tortured the woman you love more than your life. and this more than your life sounds shallow from a man who is not a father of a female that he loves ‘more than his own life’. if she is not your daughter,in which case i hold up my hat cos my son is like this for his two sons,then just think of whether you would die so that she lives,like would you give her your both kidneys or your heart for transplant so that she lives and you die. you should be careful of what you are saying,unless you are a woman a mother. only mothers,and not all would give their lives for their children and for children of their children. only they and only for the.
          as for muslims when i said they are beasts i said it figuratively hopng you would understand the subcontext of this statement. what i meant is that muslim marry if the law of their country allows it and if they can do it finansially more than one women while it is known fact that statistically boys are born 105-7 percent more in number than girls. the excess will die off till puberty or straight after cos of male dangerous lyfestyle and there would be then one woman for one man. every man can get informed on that natural fact. so if one marries two women he leaves one man without a woman to marry. leave alone the dream of kamikaze muslims that in paradise they would be awaited with 70 virgins. this means 69 men will be left without a woman and that this virgin died before she experienced sex. so they are bastards generally speaking cos such a fenomenon exists only in islamic counties thou it is a general trend in nature. but there is nothing natural about human civilization.

          • Frodo

            only mothers,and not all would give their lives for their children

            LIES

          • tsahpina

            muslim women kamikaze are rare and i was not talking about kamikaze per se but about men wanting 70 virgins. so when kamikaze is a womena do you believe that she wants 70 virgin MEN in paradise?!? its absurd what you are suggesting cos women in muslim word or anywhere else but especially muslim women wouldnt dream of harems of men! they cant even concieve such a notion. muslim women believe they are lower thatn men. this is the root of evil. women elieving in this and not seeing the truth behind mens overulling women. their strangth and freedom of children bearing rearing an thinking only about them and not politics or art.

          • Frodo
          • tsahpina

            u have short memeory problems? i never said 20. i never said any number. i only said i lived there in my twenties. give me my sentecne and youll see. why would i lie such a thing. why do you think i would have a better opinion on myself if i had live in england so long. no. i have a love/hate feeiling for the english. and i dont lie. please go to sleep. i have work to do. and btw my comprehension in eglish,my passive english is very good. my expression my active is not at all any more. i grew out of practice and got older. and you too. i can see it in you posts. you have a simplistic way of thinking typically amercan. i give up. and you avoid to tell me who the woman you love more than your lif is. your abuser,i dont think so but it is possible cos you said you loved her. psycho. me too. cos i loved my hus too

          • Frodo

            Good riddance.You are not welcome here anymore

          • Frodo

            Erin Pizzey is loved by thousands and thousand of MHRAs all over the world.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey

            and you dont know what you are talking about

          • Frodo

            ” . i am cosmopolitan or at least european. england at my 20 playd shaping role on my character. ”

            ?????

          • Frodo

            And another lie you told me.
            You say you live in the UK for 20 years.
            You English comprehension is very poor.
            LIES

          • Frodo

            men willing to die for their children,for the women they love,for their country,for their religion MANY

            women willing to die for their children,for the men they love,for their country,for their religion How MANY?

            Who died when the ship Titanic sank?

            Who died more?
            Men?
            Women?
            Children?

          • tsahpina

            ah frodo didnt you ban me?! ha ha ha!!!
            didnt i say good bye?! ha ha ha!!!

            frodo we are almost the same fools.
            we both see the ugly side of the other sex and the other person.
            but we are not the same.
            cos i see the ugly side of my gender and of myself.
            frodo you lack knowledge and brains.
            a long way is before you till you reach,if ever,the insight into the truths on how the affairs on the earth run.
            and if you are religious which i am afraid you are,being a simple not very highly in positive sciences educated american,then i know you will never see the truth.
            the causality law. the determination law.
            to see such not so obvious to common eyes truths of how the world runs,one needs courage,religious people by definition dont have it,brains of the five to ten percent of human population,only,and at least good basic knowledge of physics chemistry and biology,psychology neuropsychiatry and sociology help,which knowledge can be obtained in high school if one listens to teachers and reads their textbooks. i doubt you have all these qualities of the brain,or else you would not ask such silly questions as you just did.
            you are blind.
            i cannot help.
            cos whatever i tell you you will dismiss on diferent biases you have.
            i was like you ten years ago.
            i saw men as faulty always.
            and then my son grew up and became a man.
            so my soul split in two.
            from one point i wanted to see only women as righteous cos i am a woman.
            from the other side i wanted to see only men as righteous cos my son is the most precious i have,above myself.
            SO I BECAME OBJECTIVE. N O T B I A S E D !!!
            from then on everything was easy.
            i had all the predispositions to learn and see the truth.
            i am an atheist. i am courageous, i am intelligent. and i have all the basic knowledge in the positive and theoretic sciences i mentioned above.
            niki
            if you are willing to listen with open ears ill tell you what SCIENTIFIC METHOD is. and then you will start applying it in whatever you think about. without mixing in your gender biases and religion.
            but if you are religious you are a lost case for true knowledge…
            in that case i pity you. cos you will forever stay in your dark angry world thinking that men are good women are bad and not seeing that nature has only one course,the evolution of alive matter. everything else is secondary to nature. so whatever happens happens cos it is the only possible way of alive matter to SURVIVE and not die away.
            and why all this,you will say god. and you are in dead end way. i will say this is a silly question cos why there is matter in empty universe no one will ever find. if there was not matter in it there would not be any wold. matter did not become or got created.
            IT JUST IS.
            and mind you these are not my opinions
            they are my knowledge
            cos i am very highly educated and brainy
            while you are just a commoner who asks silly questions and has no means,that is courage brains and knowledge to find the answers. and if and when there are no answers this simply means that its a wrong question or that HER MAJESTY SCIENCE.has not found them yer. she may never will but it does not mean there is god,it simply means that earthan scientists have not the appropriate tool,brain,to discover the REAL TRUTH AND CAUSE OF ALL IN THE UNIVERSE.
            including the answers to your silly questions on why women dont do or achieve this or that and why they dont.
            the simple answer is that their role in reproduction is such. and mens is different. no one gender is bad or good. they are just performing their role.
            on titanic btw women were saved to reproduce. children were saved cos they are the future of humanity. men were not saved cos one man can fertilize as many women as many times he can have an ejection of semen daily. and even more. cos scientists can take semen of the best man,an alpha male,and insemenate many women.
            as alpha bulls and horses are used to insemenate many cows and mares.
            MEN ARE STALLION. no worth in a non stallion man.
            all women are necessary for reproduction cos it takes one egg a year to have a baby. men do it in millions daily…
            ah frodo ah…

          • Frodo

            Lets take this conversation some where else.Let me know where

          • Frodo

            “cos i see the ugly side of my gender ”
            i see the ugly side of humanity.

          • tsahpina

            you say it now that i have opened your eyes.
            but before you were drawn by these antifeminists bitches to thinking that women exploit men.
            what holy bullshit.
            no one exploits no one. humans do just the same as animals do. males exploit females. just look at lions. and cats. this is what human males try to do,and it would be all right cos its only natural if only they didnt want to be called civilised men!

          • Frodo

            No.Humans exploit humans.

          • Frodo

            Do you know who died the most when the Titanic ship sank?
            Men?
            Children?
            Women?
            Rich?
            Not rich?

          • tsahpina

            of course i know it all. i am a jurist. its called capitalism. the rich went into the saving boats. the poor drowned. old story. but it is completely another story. exploitation in humanity is the biggest from men to women cos half the population is women. then of white to black. and so on. the victims of racisms and eploitation are the ones who complain. i have to go to sleep. its early there but half past 2 at night here.

          • Frodo

            Good night
            Far more men died when that happened.They sacrificed themselves.

          • tsahpina

            i had explained to you why women and children are saved first but you are dumb to understand that no one sacrifices themselves except for their children and mothers of their children. the policy of every civilized society is that women are the most precious because of their capability to bear children. then follow the very children cos they are the future generation. then come men. then come old people. why is it so hard for you to understand that rules are there either because of natural need or capitalistic exploitation. get your brains working scientifically and not emotionally

          • Frodo

            Single men died there too.
            Why dont you get some sleep and if you want we can chat somewhere else another time?
            Take care

          • tsahpina

            single men died cos boats were full of women and children. there are no heroes in real life. hero is one who dies cos he has no other choice. please please please get real. good night cos its night in amerca too. here its over 4 in the morning. i overate late last night and couldnt sleep. there is no other place and i am getting tired of expelling your idealizm out of you and pushing some scientific method of thinking into your scull

          • Frodo

            Boats were full of women and children because men stayed on the ship.
            Women an children first.
            When the Costa Concordia sank things were different.Times change.
            Peace.

          • Frodo

            the policy of every civilized society is that women are the most precious because of their capability to bear children.

            Primitive society’s too

            I know.

            Good night

          • Frodo

            Gyno sympathy.

            Women have more sympathy for women
            Men have more sympathy for women.

          • tsahpina

            its no sympathy of men for women. its their protective and providers instinct and their imperative to have women for sex. men don’t like other men cos they all compete each other for the alpha females,the young fertile and beautiful. women have no sympathy for other women cos they all too kinda compete for alpha males,young,strong,fertile,hansom,athletic,strong,for their best genes for their children. and for best protection and providing for women and children.
            its a shame that a man does not not only know this but does not feel anything like protection and providing for women and children. this means he has aged and has no testosterone and thus is no man any longer. sorry,but you provoked me into saying this cos you insisted on the ‘injustice’ of women and children being saved first from the sinking ship and any physical danger in genera. both women and children are the future of any species,women that have eggs,only one egg per year per woman can become a baby while one man can insemenate numerous women. this is why cocks are killed and hens are saved.. for eggs and new chicken you dumb thing. you can ban me but you cant hide from the truth that what man in their peak consider their honor,protection and providing for women and children,you have no idea about. i wonder you ever had…

          • Frodo

            you insisted on the ‘injustice’ of women and children being saved first from the sinking ship

            Not injustice
            Just fact.

          • tsahpina

            i said that the men who had no their own wives and children tho to protect by saving them,in the saving boats,felt this rurle as injustice.

          • Frodo

            http://www.nowhitefeather.com/gynosympathy/

            “Gynosympathy is the well-documented, yet poorly examined, tendency in
            human being to sympathize with females more than males, leading to the
            preferential protection and appeasement of women.”

          • tsahpina

            yes,but this is not a choice of a culture,this is again the command of the nature for saving the species throu saving women with uteruses. men kinda subconsciously understand that all women are precious for the survival of species cos one uterus takes 9 months to rear an embryo and later there is 2,5 years of lactation,never mind that humans invented baby formulas,there is no such thing in nature,and even after this period lasting more than 3 years,the small child in animal kingdom cannot survive without mother until it is in its puberty. in humans it is true that men can bring up a newborn without its mother but the psychological consequence of this mens kind of bringing up a small baby are catastrofical for the child. in a word children need uterus and then mother until they are ready for survival by their own,which means until they can ward off enemies of alive nature and natures elemental enemies. in nature females with small kids and no male protection survive ok,cats do and many other species. so in nature in many species even mammals females and their young are the society and males are only insemenators. this is especially evident in elephants where the society is females with kids while grown up males get chased away and are received back only when females are in heat. so one lay person may ask why then males are born at the same rate as females. its easy to answer. males compete each other for sex and thus the winners,the best,the alpha males do the insemenation of all females. the rest of the males die virgins. and everything is ok by females’ point of view cos THERE IS NO LOVE in animal societies. sex is while it is being performed,a mating of just two individuals process but since there is no love in animal kingdom,there is poligamy for the alpha males. muslims live like that so in my opinion they are nearer to nature regarding this nearer to animals than other human societies where there is a rule of commitment to one sexual partner. that that is unnatural such human societies dont care cos men are exclusive only on the paper while out of marriage they form other sexual relationships. not all men do it but most,yes. i personally had a father who was like this,but am lucky that neither my late husband nor my son are like this. for what reason is out of the issue in this conversation. there are opinions of known psychologists that the faithful to one sexual partnere in a commited relationship are more intelligent men than the cheating male sexual partners. this makes sense. these more intelligent men make a diliberate choice for love with one sexual partner but not for loveless sex with multiple sex partners at the same time…
            why women cheat on men i am not sure but i am sure there is a logical explanation. it is true that nothing happens WITHOUT a cause while it is not true that nothing happens FOR a cause.

          • Frodo

            i know

          • Frodo

            If you are saying that i an without empathy and compassion you insult me in the deepest way and misrepresent me nearly to the point of slander

          • tsahpina

            sorry but this was when we two did not know each other and when you wanted to ban me. now is different. i now know the cause of you not understanding the workings of nature and your personal history kinda. sorry again for all i had said before i knew the causes of you antifeminism. one woman did it to you. now you can understand what one man can do to a women. make her feminist. i believe most feminists have a personal history of bad father brother and husband. but necessarily father and as a consequence husband. my father was cheating but not violent. my husband was not cheating but was violent. there was no brother. but i can see brothers who are sons of bad fathers and husbands to their mothers,who,sons,became as bad as their fathers as husbands to their wives and fathers to their children. and thus the mysery goes on cos their sons are going to be bastards too and their daughters are going to marry bastards…
            but there are genes that play role too. and there is the role of mother as rearer of a son. in my case,my father was cheating but not violent. so i married a non cheating but violent man. and then i bore a son. his better genes from his fathers and my exclusive rearing of him,husband was the guest at the house comming only to collect food sleep sex and clean clothing,these two factors made my son an exclusive sexually husband and devoted to the point of being a mother to his sons,father.

          • Frodo

            apology accepted

          • tsahpina

            you are a good person. i never doubted that,but now i know for sure.
            i tested myself on ok cupid test WHATS WRONG WITH YOU. its on the fourth page of the list of tests. type in google searchig machine BROWSE OK CUPID TESTS and you will have the list of tests. go to the fourth page,on the bottom of the page. then find the test on the bottom of the fourth page. then test yourself. the results come in one text for all. its about the number of negative points. as smaller the number s better. no points would be an ideal person,one like dostoyefski created in his novel idiot. i will not tell you what the test is looking for,what kind of badness in us. you will see it when you have done the test. but be honest othrwise you will not know whats wrong with you and how much wrong. nor before you do the test do you know what the test is looking for and finding out.
            well in this test i had 21 points. the zero till 28 it the best of persons. i really got amazed. i redid the test trying to be even more honest and the result was the same. 21. the test found that i am…but you will read it when you have done the test,in test results,what i am,the first category of people having zero to 28 pints.
            so,since this is obviously true,cos i know what i am really like deep inside me,there is a good question and this is why i give bad impression in the beginning of my new acquaintances,like in you. this happens all the time throughout my entire life.
            the only possible explanation is ASPERGERS syndrom that i most probably have. look it up if you dont know what it is. i know that from all the bad things about people with this condition,i have only one,but this is the major one. the deep incapability to read the social ques and follow them. i am deeply bothered that there are social QUES at all. in my mind all things should be said and not left for the listener to read the ques one is sending. why ques. why not openly saying you are boring to me or i dont like you for this or that reason. why send ques. for me its mind games.
            do the test and find out what i am like and what YOU are like regarding this very special aspect of lack of good character.

          • Frodo

            ok

            email me.
            taking the test now

          • Frodo

            You misunderstand.

            i know a lot about nature

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Geographic_Channel

          • tsahpina

            its not my misunderstanding.
            its your not giving the info about you initially.
            i was judging you on the base of what you said and i judged well based on the fact about you that i had. its your fault you did not provide the judge with all the evidence of your knowledge and capabilities. i judged only what i knew about you based on what you had said to me about you before

          • Frodo

            “its no sympathy of men for women”
            That is not what the scientific research is saying

          • tsahpina

            science research sees mens sympathy for women on the surface. the real cause of this sympathy is doblefold. one is the symathy of a strong for survival individual for the weak one. this happens in nature too. the other is even deeper in the subcoscence of males. it is their knowledge that without females there is no sex for them,males,and no species. this means end of story. so men ‘like’ women cos first they pity their body weakness and second they need the females for sex and reproduction of the species. this is why. all and evry liking in nature including humans has its deep cause,the need. we like what we need. we like whats good for us. we like what pleases us. of course in rotten human society there are deviations of liking whats not good for one. but this is sickness of the mind. not health. cos healthy minds like only whats good for them. fruit not icecream.

          • Frodo

            There are still things you are forgetting.
            Unless you want to chat by email or some other way this is the last time i am going to respond.

            Take care
            Peace.

          • tsahpina

            you are not willing to type your email address here and you expect me to type mine here?!
            i risk more than you do. i said many things about my private life here. i am not afraid of the general readership hers. i am afraid someone who knows me and dislikes me knowing not what results on the ok cupid test WHATS WRONG WITH YOU i took,the best,can find out who i am and use it against me. you disclosed nothing about you except about your bad ex wife and your love for erne or whatever the name of the antifeminist woman is. antifeminist woman. a shame. no man has ever betrayed the brotherhood of men so badly as antifeminists do. i have a son and he is perfect as husband and father and good enough as son. but i did no stop being a feminist or even worse become an antifeminist on the accoutn of my good son.no. cos my son and other men like him are exemptions to the rule that men exploit women and not the other way round,thou it looks on the surface that women explit men. yes they do. but they only take back what had been taken from them from the dawn of the humanity. animal males also exploit their females. lions do it mere than any other species. lionesses work for lions and have babies too. ok lions could not give their damn for babies. but they eatf food that lionesses bring. in human societies it looks on the surface that men work and women and children use the produce of mens work. but the cauese of this is much deeper. much.

          • Frodo
          • Frodo

            The men who decided to stay on the sinking ship-what do you think they were thinking?

          • tsahpina

            you are obviously not aware of the international non-written codex that the weak get saved first from the sinking ship and wherever there is danger. the reason for modern societies,not medieval,to have such a code is that the strong,men,not only can save themselves being more capable and strong,but also that they are much less important for the survival of human race in general cos one man is enough,stallion,remember,to make many many babies on a given day,as many times as he can an ejection of semen which is in 17 old boys over ten times,so men are dispensable so to say,while for a baby to develop from an egg in a woman’s uterus it takes nine months plus many years of rearing it by a woman,which makes any fertile woman precious and indispensable. except for women who are obviously not only more precious from men but also much weaker when it comes to survival in danger,the weaker are children who are precious too cos they have not lived and they are the future of any given species.the old people are there too,only because they are weak cos they not only have lived their share but are also not needed for the survival of a species,which survival oe species is the the only thing NATURE cares about,the women and babies and children. any normal man has protective and providing for the weak,especially women and children,instinct,which is in modern societies called GENTLEMANSHIP. but there are no gentlemen nor ladies when own survival is at stake,thus the modern states take care of the survival of women and children by having made this CODE OF HONOR FOR MEN. the captain is the last to leave the sinking ship. now please leave me alone with this cos i am quite disappointed that a person who dares call himself a MAN does not know this and has no protective and providers instinct towards women and children,which is common among all normal men who still have testosterone.

          • Frodo

            CODE OF HONOR FOR MEN

            I know these things.
            And other things

            If you want to speak to me any more pick another place

            If not i am not going to respond to you anymore .let someone else.

            Good bye peace.

          • tsahpina

            i can see in my inbox that after your goodbye you continued to answer my comments. i understand very well why you want another place for this discussion of ours but i have told you that i dont have another room in my apartmen. only one room that serves as sitting and bedroom.and i dont even have the kitchen room as separate, its tied to the one room i have. only bathroom is another room. so its either here or nowhere. sorry

          • Frodo

            what i mean to say is we could chat somewhere else.A chat room.There are many places online where people communicate

            but ok

          • Frodo

            “you are obviously not aware of the international non-written codex that the weak get saved first from the sinking ship”

            Please stop insulting my intelligence like that

          • tsahpina

            sorry but in the beginning of this discussion of ours you appeared to me as a lay person who has no idea of the deeper causes of the course of nature and human societies. you comment questions and answers were then…well appeared as if you were not aware of the causality principle in nature. and i still dont know if you believe in god. cos god believers minds are closed and blind for the causality principle which simply means that all the phenomena that take place are the consequences of previous chain of causes back to the beginnings of the material universe. all. no place for god there. whoever cannot see that god is impossible to exist,event thou it seems to us that the world without a creator is equally impossible,this one cannot thing causally. and causal thinking is the only thinking that reveals truths. out brains are not omnipotent. this means that we cannot find all the truths out. some of the truths of the universe as is the no beginning of time no end of time no end of pace and maybe even innumerable atoms of the matter in univrse,are impossible for our weak brains to digest. but it does not stop them from being true and neither does it call for creation of god in our minds. god did not create us. we created it. i am proud that i took no part in this shameful comedy for human intelligence.

          • tsahpina

            well hear what. the men that had their own children saved on the boat and themselves stayed on the sinking ship to drown,gladly gave their lives for their children. its called paternal instinct. but since children cant survive without their mothers,such men also gladly gave up their lives for the mothers of their children.
            but,the men that had no children and mothers of their children,their wives that is,they had no personal interest to give their lives for children and wives of other men. but mens honor and instinct of protector-provider,prevented them from showing their desire to be saved on the expense of others’ children and their mothers. now this is gentlemanship and manhood,they rather died but to be called unmanly.
            strange and new to you,cos you are old and forgot what it is to be a man. i am old too,but once mother always mothe. i forgot to be a woman but not a mother. you forgot and being a man and being a father cos from the natures point of view,survival of the species which means survival of women with eggs and their children,men are of no interest to be saved again cos one man has millions of sperm enough for all women. i have a son,and i also like you see the injustice from a personal mans view,i am my sons mother,but nature is not the mother of men,she is the mother of fertile women and their children. crude. but natural and in the end this saves the species. who cares about men. nature cares about survival of species. this is what you dont know cos this is taught in high schools in lessons on evolution while in america you use the time that you could learn about he biological laws of nature,nonsense about ‘god’. sorry but you ‘asked’ for it! now you can hide from the readers but you cant hide from yourself. if you have any manship left in you you will be ashamed. now ban me if you will i dont care. i did not know there were such cowards and unmanly men. fui!

          • Frodo

            nature cares about survival of species.

            i know

          • tsahpina

            its good that you general follows the nature’s com of the species depends

          • tsahpina

            sorry for the previous which is just a fragment and it accidentally got printed.
            i was saying that humanity just follows the nature’s command of saving a species by saving as many women…who only have uterus…men haven’t…to rear the embryo and who are also needed to bring up the small children..and children,who are the future of the species,and not save men,who are dispensable cos one can insemenate many many women.
            btw all men want all women to be saved in order for them,the men,to have the sex. when it comes to personal survival,thou,men who don’t have wives and children feel this as injustice,and it actually is from the point of view of an individual’s survival,but as i previously said and you said you knew that,the nature does not care about the survival of individuals but of a species. so this is not injustice from natures point of view or from men’s who have wives and children,but is from the individual point of men without wives and children.

          • Frodo

            “btw all men want all women to be saved in order for them,the men,to have the sex.”

            you are forgetting something.

          • tsahpina

            what?

          • Frodo

            who cares about men

            I do
            i suspect you do not.
            Am i wrong?

          • Frodo

            ban me if you will

            I dont want to

          • tsahpina

            why not? i believe cos you now see that,true,i bark a lot,but my barking is scientific truth and thou it may not be liked by general population it eventually brings much more good that bad from saying the ugly truths of nature’s workings.

          • Frodo

            why not?

            Pick another place for us to talk and i will tell you why.

          • tsahpina

            sorry no other place. and i forgot what i said why not about. i cannot follow it all so well cos my computer is lousy and i have no time for this. i do have an email address so if you want THAT yous should,being a gentleman that i am sure you are,give me yours first,especially that YOU are asking for another place,not i. i am not ashamed to say anything in the open here for one simple reason that no one who knows me can trace me here.

          • Frodo
          • tsahpina

            i tried both

            frodo@mail.com

            and

            frodo@gmail.com.

            nothing worked.

            type your email address correctly please

          • Frodo

            not gmail

            just mail.com

            http://www.mail.com/

            frodo.was@mail.com

          • tsahpina

            i tried
            frodo@hotmai.com
            and i found you.
            its in my sentbox with the text i typed in the email ‘is it you’
            is it really YOU or does someone else has this email that i made up from what you had typed as your email address.
            cos you wrote only ‘mail’
            and as far as i know there are only two possibilities
            its either gmai or hotmai

          • Frodo

            not hotmail

            just frodo.was@mail.com

          • Frodo

            is i ok if i send you an email?

          • tsahpina

            too late now it’s already out.
            i have no other place nor do i need it.
            you do and i understand why
            but even if i had a place for you to hide,you cant hide from yourself.
            ill finish it here. you should have thought better before provoking an unknown person into telling you that it is known fact that in whole human history men exploited women. thats why women want to have sons and not daughters. cos men live easier lives. no man wants to be a woman. all women would want to be men. cos its easier.
            frodo you are no exploiter. you are exploited. this is why you are biased.
            i myself was exploited but i bore it courageously.
            but my son is exploited by a woman,just like you.
            this is where my real bias started.
            but i have overcome it by brains and knowledge.
            i now know that things on earth are the only way they can possibly be,according to the
            LAW OF CAUSALITY.
            now you can ban me or not. please yourself. but you will never be in peace with women cos you have no idea.

          • Frodo

            And Muslim women who die as martyrs have the same promise of 70 virgins.so once again you dont know what you are talking about

          • Frodo

            YOU can find out who Erin is yourself.i gave you links

          • tsahpina

            NOW you show the weakness of character that made you chose such a women to marry and stay with her and love her. the same goes with me. the only difference between you and me is that i am aware and have self introspection while you dont.
            as for girls choosing boy over mother,no no no. grils generally dont betray mothers. boys generally betray mothers.
            i did not betray my mother. my husband did and my son did. and my father did. all the trree men i loved betrayid their mothers. but i am only now aware of this cos the i am the victim now.
            so what about you resolution that you chase me away from here.
            and for that matter what about my rsolutinon that i never speak to you again,you bad man… ha ha ha!!!

          • Frodo

            I have seen such a thing many times.

            So you do not know what you are talking about

          • Frodo

            Are you aware that many women in saudi arabia ask that men marry more than 1 wife?

          • tsahpina

            listen man. i dont follow you links any more. and yes i know that muslim women do that. there is no love except in exclussive sexual relatioship. so no one like no one in harems. this means that it might suit an older woman that her ‘husand’ takes another woman to help her in domestic work cos he is not her love anyway
            as for your loved woman she is probably your mother. in that case it may be true but then its usually not overcome edis complex by the man.
            statistically boys are born 5-7 percent more than girls. every large hospital on anual basis has sauch data. its a knwn fact. its also in animals. so why so many males and so much sperm in each if on is enough for many women.
            so that they compete and the best is the sperm donor.. he fathers all the babies in as many females he can grab fom other males. this is how nature ensures good fathers genes. as for mothers genes nature does not have the luxury of selecting the best egg donor. to produce a baby takes arond one year and to raise it to puberty another fifteen. so every egg is welcome to nature.
            please dont judje my english only ased on these texts. i am under pressure and i type fast and thus so many errors. my pressure has to do with you and my son. you both are on me this hour. especially he with his love for…you know what. and its ony natural but it doesnt prevent me from feelin ghurt. a woman psychiatrists calls this phenomena in a book THE BETRAYAL OF THE MOTHER FROM HER SON. common. ut for me it something that kills me every day. i cannot,being a woman,understand that my boy loves pussy more than me. not her,her pussy. its cos women never love dicky more that their mothers. and this is cos sex means much less,as much less women have testosterone,to women than to men. women live for their children. men live for their pussies. and you are going to send me another lindk that i will not follow and say again that i lie. you are a bad man. you think you know me. you know nothing. actually nobody knows nothing. only their own experience. and they are usually delusional whan it suits them, i cant any more. tyred of typing. too many errors and bad computer. sorry

          • Frodo

            “as for your loved woman she is probably your mother’

            You are a very sick person.

            Now go away

          • tsahpina

            oh NOW i understand. you were maltreated by a woman in marriage the way i was by a man in mine. so you started hating women but no one understood. i too starded hating men but no one understood except women in the same possiton.
            and then came erin who understood,for you
            and then came albert who undrstood,for me
            so now you love erin and i love albert.
            but there is a difference. you had the strngth in you muscles,not in rain apparently,to stop her form abusin you.
            so you were not afraid. just hurt.
            i did not have the strangh to stpop the ause and was very afrid. i though i could go nowhere.so proably did. you we both were psychotic ut you more cos you had the strength. as for chasing me away,you cant do it unless you inform the autorities of the site. then they will read my stuff and your stuff too.sonce this is enlish speaking site,probably american they will be on your side. i insulted you but you insulted me. too and many times. you said that i lied so many times instad of saying that i am wronng. and these autorities are men. so cheers idiot. THIS word will chase me away but its i who chose to go away. if i am alowed to come badk i wiill not come to you. you lose be sure. cos you coudl learn trom me how it looks on the other side of the fence. i learned from you,and saw psychosis in state with with this devil of a women and even say you loved her. i had to stay with my devil cos i couldnt raise my boy alone cos i am a sick person at heart from birth. bye rude man!

          • Frodo

            I do not hate.Why can you not get that thru your head?

          • Frodo

            i am a moderator.
            But i do have empathy for you.
            Rude? out of ignorance you said the rudest things and never apologized

          • Frodo

            Your country does not have social services for women?

            Another lie?

          • Frodo

            Feminism is based in lies.
            Lies about Domestic violence
            Lies about sexual assault.
            Lies about pay

            Lies about the history of humans and women’s supposed lack of agency.

            So you as a feminist a rad feminist i have a very hard time believing anything you say

          • Frodo

            He loves his girlfriend.
            So.
            Young people men and women think about sex a lot.and who they are sexually attracted to.Its part of normal healthy growing up.
            You should know this

          • tsahpina

            he love his two sons and her pussy not her. he says she is crazy.
            men loving pussy more than mother is natural but hurts the mother cos women never love dick more than mother and especially their children. i am talking about normal women and in general.
            women love children first mother second husband third father fourth,if,and then brother.
            men love sex first children second wife third mother fourth father fifth and sibling.
            and all agree that women are better people than men.
            not your woman not my man. generally. its general agreement among sociologists and psychologists.

          • Frodo

            men love sex first

            LIES

          • Frodo

            Feminist sociologists and psychologists. say that.
            but it is lies

          • Frodo

            I have empathy for you or i would just delete you comments and bann you from posting here

            But you will never be free from your depression and fear until you stop hating.

            and that is something that your psychologist will not tell you.
            You are being lied to

          • Frodo

            you are very unaware of how often girls choose boys over their parents.Very sad

          • Frodo

            “boys are born 105-7 percent more in number than girls.”
            What?

          • Frodo

            not my daughter???? She is old enough to be my mother .
            Once again you do not know what you are talking about

          • Frodo

            If feminists tried to kill her again i would gladly stand between her and anything that would hurt her..Thousands of MHRAs would

      • Frodo

        “muslims and muslims are beasts to women and children”another falsehood

        http://www.avoiceformen.com/gynocentrism/the-myth-of-patriarchal-oppression-in-iran/

        • tsahpina

          albert adler the psychiatrist understood the hidden motif behind the feminine neurosis. men.
          as for the antient greeks its not up to you to talk about it so i refuse to answer your silly question. ah man do you really think these women sent their sons to die with pride. mens bulshit.

          • Frodo

            http://www.pbs.org/empires/thegreeks/background/8c_p1.html

            “Come back with
            your shield – or on it” (Plutarch, Mor.241) was supposed to be the
            parting cry of mothers to their sons. Mothers whose sons died in battle
            openly rejoiced, mothers whose sons survived hung their heads in shame

          • tsahpina

            both groups lied. the ones whose sons survived rejoiced but hid it pretending shame and the ones who saw their sons dead cried and pretending pride. men wrote that bulshit. cos men are not mothers and will never understand mothers. even womena who are not mothers dont understand mothers. only mothers understand other mothers.
            so what relation to you is the women you say you love more than your own life? lover of daughter. i dont think mother or sister.

          • tsahpina

            psihi is a greek word meaning soul
            but i did no mean the word. i meant the condition haveing its cause in his a mans condition. not so much in girls. cos they are same sex as mothers and as for girls’ fathers,well they are not mothers.. mothers count.
            i dont know what you mean by lies. you probably mean heroes. i am talking about dying for ones child. fathers do it to?!
            germany has succeded its technology on dilgence and intelligence and not on exploitiation of other worlds like english and america. and some other countries,france and spain.

          • Frodo
          • tsahpina

            a psycho. many forms of psycho but the origin the same. mother.

          • Frodo

            You think the word psycho comes from mother? in what language?

      • Frodo

        And you a Greek,what do you know about your own ethnic heritage?
        How many Greek Sparten boys were told by their mothers “Come back with your shield or on it?”

        • tsahpina

          i know greek ancient history more than its recent history and you think you know it.
          so leave greek history alone. and especially why women do what women do. ALBERT ADLER answered this seeming puzzle best of all. because of what men do to them. but it is not so simple as this phrase sounds. i know you will not find and read his book on women’s neurosis even if you could so there is no point arguing with a man who hasnt informed himself about the origin of female apparently strange and ugly behavior especially prostitution,to discuss such issues with a simpleton on the issue of male gender. a man can understand women and its still an if,when he has a daughter who will be a potential victim of male behavior towards women as lower gender. btw,female gender is biologically the basic gender. thats why men have nipples. i can explain it in detail but why should i be bothered with a male who probably thinks there is god and calls this god a he. a father. when was the father the caregiver of a child?!

          • Frodo

            Even The greatest minds among men do not understand women.And you did not answer my question.How many Greek Sparten mothers told their sons to come back with their shield or dead upon it?

          • Frodo

            Some women choose to be prostitutes
            some do it because of poverty.

            And at the same time you ignore the dangerous and deadly things some men do to earn money
            Like working in mines
            Or demolition.
            Or roofing
            Or scaffolding.

        • tsahpina

          you know only your brain if you are not delusional. you also hear from other men but they can also be delusional.
          people chose friends so that they suit their purpose.
          so you believe that you and your friends that have similar experiences with women know better than thousands of psychologists sociologists and psychiatrist who have treated thousands of people and they all agree that men love pussy more than mummy and its only natural cos it makes people reproduce,and that doing so boys betray their mum in general. its not equivalent with girls and fathers cos girls husband and father could not care less about who is boss in family cos its always mum,but mom and daughter in law fight over the same position in the mans heart and pussy wins. simple as that and natural. but hurts as hell.
          the only thing that makes me feel better is that he has two sons and they will revenge me,i mean their wives will do exactly what she does to me. this behavior is as much inborn as is learned. so my son learned it from his father,my husband,who betrayed his mother. but she had two other sons in the great yard around three houses,so she was not so much abandoned as i am. and both these two daughters in law married to my husbands two brothers hated the mother of their husbands. and she hated them back as much. she only loved me and yet another daughter in law,the two of us that were away. maybe this was the reason but in my case she loved me cos i saved her alcoholic son from the guts. and i had a uni degree a good job as an executive in a local firm a car,second hand bought by the money i earned,and a promise for a flat from the firm,that materialized soon enough. this is why she loved me. so i had no bad experience from my mother in law and it is a nightmare what i live now with this woman and my son. i pity him cos i know he is stuck. not with pussy but with his two boys that he simply adores. he is a crazy father from a movie!

          • Frodo

            And who would you want YOUR man to choose?

          • Frodo

            Here is a psychologist for you.

            Her name is Dr. Tara.

            http://www.shrink4men.com/

            She also is an anti feminist and if she knew i was having this debate with you im sure it would have come to and end a long time ago

          • Frodo

            Dr Paul Elam was a drug and alcohol counselor for a very long time untill he noticed how feminists had infected psychology with hatred of men and started this site.

      • Frodo

        Interesting that you spent time with British feminists.Perhaps some of the same British feminists who harassed ,stalked and abused a woman that i love more than my life itself?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1215464/Why-I-loathe-feminism—believe-ultimately-destroy-family.html

      • Frodo

        And if you dont know the meaning of an English word-Google is you friend

        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bogus

        • tsahpina

          you know better than that. social service cant help. no one can help what is going on between the walls. especially that the victim thinks or really has no other chose but to endure. i did have a chose but i couldnt see it then. i saw it when my boy grew up to 17. when i no longer needed the abuser. and i fed him on top. his little salary he spent on drinking. what idiot was i!

          • Frodo

            Social services?
            shelters for abused women none of that?

          • Frodo

            Are you sure this is not the reason you were with your husband?

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia

          • Frodo

            I tell you something again that your psychologist will not.

            you will never be free from your depression and fear until you stop hating .

            Your psychologist will not tell you the truth.

          • tsahpina

            this is obviously true.
            but,moderator or no,i end the discussion with you. i feel you poison me. and another thing that you said is kinda true,that i loved him because of his ‘sins’ but not the way you think. i believe i felt bad about myself all my life cos of my dad and my heart condition and there was also economic misery in family,that i had to find someone to feel good about,like higher than him,and help him instead of help myself.
            ok
            but what about you,why did YOU love your abusive wife.ll
            and so on.
            but i moderate you out of my life.
            this is a punisment for you for making me scared you will chase me out of here.
            so i chase you out of my life first. as i did with my bad hus.
            this time for ral adio

          • Frodo

            good bye,i hope you take my advice.and take the time to read all the links i sent you.
            If you do read all the links i sent you and do come back and refrain from being abusive and disruptive i will not ban you.
            Letting go of your hate is your way out.Peace be with you

          • tsahpina

            it was not YOU who banned ME.
            it was I who banned YOU.
            i know this is about VANITY,yours and mine,but this is the truth.
            I BANNED YOU OUR OF MY LIFE. AND YOU LOSE.
            FOR I WILL LISTEN TO YOUR ADVICE BUT YOU WILL NEVER TO MINE. WE ARE ONE ANOTHER’S MIRROR.
            YOU HATE AND YOU DON’T KNOW. I HATE AND I DO.
            SO YOU WILL DO NOTHING ABOUT IT AND I WILL DO A LOT ABOUT MY HATE. OH YES I WILL.

          • Frodo

            No dont hate you.
            You are projecting.
            but if you want to leave and not come back that is up to you
            good bye.
            peace

          • tsahpina

            PPS
            I DID NOT SAY YOU HATE MEEE.
            COS I AM IN A MIRRORED POSITION WITH YOU.
            YOU HATE THE PERSON,WOMAN,THAT MADE YOU SO BITTER ABOUT WOMEN,IN GENERAL.
            WITHOUT HER IN YOUR LIFE YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT MAN ALTOGETHER.
            AND DON’T BE FOOLED. IT’S TRUE THAT ALL THE CONSEQUENCES HAVE THEIR CAUSES,AND THAT THUS THIS WOMAN DID NOT HAPPEN TO COME INTO YOUR LIFE WITHOUT YOU HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. YOU CHOSE HER. IT’S ALSO TRUE THAT YOUR CHOICE,BY THE LAW OF DETERMINATION,DIN NOT COME WITHOUT A PREVIOUS CAUSE,
            BUT IT IS ALSO TRUE,STATISTICS SAY THAT WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO A SINGLE PERSON IS 50% A CHANCE EVENT.
            CHANCE. ACCIDENT.
            TAKE THE PRINCE WILLIAM OF ENGLAND.
            WHEN HE ENROLLED TO A CERTAIN UNIVERSITY MANY MANY GIRLS ENROLLED THERE TOO IN HOPE THEY ONE DAY BECOME PRINCESSES AND EVEN LATER IN THEIR OLD AGE IF THE MARRIAGE SURVIVES QUEENS OF A KING OF GREAT BRITAIN!!!
            SO DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT KATE WAS THE BEST. NO WAY. SHE WAS ORDINARY AS MOST OF THEM BUT WAS DAMN LUCKY TO BE AT THE RIGHT PLACE AND TIME WHEN THE PRINCE WAS READY TO START DATING A GIRL FROM HIS ENVIRONMENT.
            CHANCE.
            SO IT IS 50& TRUE THAT YOU ARE TO ‘BLAME’ IN A WAY,NOT SUBJECTIVELY BUT OBJECTIVELY,COS YOUR ‘CHOICE’ WAS NOT FREE BUT DETERMINED. THE OTHER 50% IS PURE CHANCE THAT YOUR FUTURE BAD WIFE HAPPENED TO BE IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME,TO BECAME YOUR FUTURE BAD WIFE.
            SO YOU NOW HATE WOMEN WITHOUT KNOWING IT.
            HATRED IS SUCH A HATED EMOTION THAT FEW AWARE ONES,LIKE I AM,ARE READY TO ADMIT IT.
            YOU ARE NOT. SO YOU PUT IT IN YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS. SIMPLE AS THAT.
            AND STOP SENDING ME THE WORD ‘PEACE’.
            IT’S YOUR FAULT THAT I SIT HERE SINCE 7 AND IT’S ONE O’CLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON,WRITING AND READING CRAP AND BULLSHIT INSTEAD OF WALKING FOR FITNESS.

          • Frodo

            Well i dont hate her either.She has a personality disorder.She was either born with it or developed it early in life.
            i wish you peace and contentment and i wish for you forgiveness so that you can be free of your fears and and depression and hate.
            I have empathy and compassion for you.
            i have many female anti feminist friends who are very dear to me.
            i wish that you could be one of them.

            Perhaps you think i am harsh

            my friend Suz the chief moderator who has been my friend a very long time, she would not have allowed this go go on.

            i am much softer.

            I wish you peace weather you like it or not.

          • Frodo

            Not vanity

            my responsibility as a moderator

    • tsahpina

      have you got a link on that one too?! lol

  • Frodo
    • tsahpina

      i have read it now but nothing changes.
      almost all men are stronger than almost all women.
      so when men report assault from women there is something deeply sick in their psychology in being a victim of a much weaker from them person,a woman. these men are not men in an ordinary way of understanding what a man is. they are not dominant psychologically over women thou they have the means,their physical strength to fight off any attempt of asault on them by women. this of course changes if a woman threatens a man that she will hurt or kill him from afar using a weapon or another man to attack ‘her’ man for her or from behind and finally poison him. in that case the man will not use his natural strength to fight off even an atempt of attack from a woman,he would be afraid to do so cos she will revenge him the above mentioned ways. or in his sleep. but i believe that men who report physical attack from their women are those not afraid from the above mentioned womens measurs,but waklings. women are weaklings,when they are,usually because of their physical weakness in comparrison to men. men are weaklings in regard to women cos of their sick psychology.
      whatever the case,my father maltreated my mother and us three daughters by his bad behavior but no physical attack,he was after all sick at heart,my husband beat me four times when he was drunk,and then i divorced him,and my brother in law yelled at my sister under alcohol or not so that it was heard on far away and threw things on the walls,once he threw a pan full of cooked meal. in my both fatherland and motherland,both balkan countries under turk influence from centuries in the pasta,are bastards.
      and then i find the article in question about men not trusting women. of course they should not trust people whose lives they make hell from the dawn of human ‘civilization’.
      and it is the only natural way of behavior for males in animal kingdom and humans are just intelligent animals. but their emotions are worse than in animals. there is poetry and filossophy and there is alcohol and psychosis.
      in conclussion humans are sick apes.

      • Frodo

        i was beaten by my exwife for years.i put up with it because i loved her.i work mostly with men(construction, not a bunch of sissys) and rarely does a day go by that i dont hear a man say that his wife hit him with a stick or a frying pan,or burnt him with cooking oil,or cut him with a knife,or scratched him with finger nails.

        • tsahpina

          because i know what reputation serbia has round the world regarding croats bosnians and kosovo. some is true but not all. but the main reason is racism in greece. they are big nosed as much as the english german american chinese and maybe french. dont know about japanese. so i have come to habbit to hide serbia from my past cos i have nothing serian in my blood,i am my mothers clone,nor in mentality. i am cosmopolitan or at least european. england at my 20 playd shaping role on my character. nor serbia. i hate greek racizm and am ashamed of it. its so low. but of all the above mentioned big nosed countries only greece and amercia have some right. greece becaues of its past culture,150 gnerations ago,so there is no trace of that in nowdays little idiots of greeks. america is exactly the opposite example. it has no past but it has economic sussess present. but china is taking over.
          yet,germans are the most worthy nation on the world. and nazists…

          • Frodo

            Germany? how?

      • Frodo

        I showed you plenty of scientific evidence that women are just as violent as men.
        Just because men choose not to use their superior strength to defend themselves against abusive women does not mean that the women are not abusive.

        You have a hatred of men and are coming close to being banned

        • tsahpina

          mysterious and hiding irrelevnat facts. i hid that my fatherland was serbia but if you know any geografy,since i mentioned turks invasion you would have known that its ulgaria serbia or rumania but not hungary. so i have to quess you are in america probably probably eastprobably east or mid. not west. and you hide your age too.
          WHY?!
          i remind you that there is a motif behind every and any human thought emotion word gesture and move. whats you motif to hide such irrelevant things. my sister does the same. she hides everything except that for the things she has to say. i on the other hand say everything except fro the things i have to hide. those who hide are afraid people are going to misuse their knowledge about them. those who say it all are not.

          • Frodo

            So?
            i dont know much about Europien geography.
            And why did you hide your fatherland.yess im American

      • Frodo
        • tsahpina

          none. i have a generalized anxiety disorder with and inclination for depression. i have had a bad heart from birth. you hate women as much as i hate men,generally,thou we both love some of them. before you leave me alone please tell me where you are and what age. it matters especially the age. the whereabouts matter cos its two hours plus greenwich time,ten to ten here and you are already online. so its either early there or night time. where? age matters cos we accumulate bad life experiences which finally come out as hatred. you are aware of my hatred but not of yours. i am your mirror and you mine. and as you can see we both have bad experiences with the other gender. so its ALWAYS PERONAL

          • Frodo

            Our ages are very close and the time here is 2:54 am

          • Frodo

            I do not hate anyone.ther is no person walking this earth who i hate.
            so you are projecting

      • Frodo

        Since you know so much about psychology.which one of these describes you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_B_personality_disorders

      • Frodo

        Here is another report for you

        http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm.

        Now go away and dont come back

  • Andrew

    Bitch Your son probably looks like the turd i just gave birth to, i shall.name it earl. By the way it takes two to tango there for you cannot make a baby wothout men. You and which ever guy you decided to sleep with that night made a baby not just u stop thinking your so high and mighty men and women should be equal no sex should have more control or power than the other.