Strength

To the women that aren’t like that

Although the subject of women in the MRM is not currently a hot button issue, I wanted to write a small missive to them from a nearly worn out old hand.  In part, what I want to do is thank you from the bottom of my heart.  I am well aware that for some of you, the road has been as long as mine (*cough*typhon*cough*) and something like this has been a long time coming.  So along with my thanks comes an apology for its tardiness.

It is a comfort to know that, indeed  not ALL women are ‘like that’ and even better some of you stand up and say something, and dammit they are quite often good something’s to say.

And in no small measure it is precisely because you are not men, your unique perspective (as regards men’s issues, being fully aware of them) on men being ‘outside’ observation.  This is most definitely not to disregard or diminish in any way your viewpoints, but rather a recognition of the value of those outside viewpoints in realizing what is going on.  As an example, it never occurred to me the level to which feminism infantilized women, until I read an article criticizing same.

So allow me to attempt to return the favor.

Going very far back, in the Dark Age of the MRM there was an influx of women asking what women are supposed to do.  Essentially, these women asked for a belief system, a label they could attach themselves to, that would embody their belief in equality without demonizing men.

Some of these women stuck around and proudly call themselves MRAs.  More of them stuck around but balked at calling themselves MRAs.  And a lot of newcomer women tend to see a lot of unmasked anger, and get scared off.  Which of course leads to calls for moderation, which isn’t going to happen…

This cycle has endlessly repeated for decades, seemingly every week on r/mensrights.

You can see the dilemma.

Then I noticed a new subreddit called ‘lady MRAs’.  It’s a small, but growing group that I wish every success for.  And when I look at the writings and videos of the higher profile female MRAs there’s one thing that strikes me as a common denominator.  These women ARE what feminism pretends to be.

There is a growing body of work from these women – self aware and empathetic work that views men as partners, not competitors – that deserves to be recognized for what it is…

A replacement ideology for feminism.

Well, ok, not so much an ideology as a label to attach to basically acting like an adult, and ‘owning your shit’.  But you get my meaning.  What you are doing is piggybacking on the MRM to formulate a new understanding for women.  An answer to “what do you want me to be?” For the record…piggyback away!

I would view it as a personal favor for all men if you would consider a humble request though…

When the MRM was a few hundred guys grumbling away on discussion boards, we never got around to finding a catchy name.  This means we have to describe ourselves with an acronym, with which most people are unfamiliar.  In hindsight, I think that was a mistake on our part. So, could you guys think up a cool name for yourselves?  Because here’s the kicker…

You are forming the basis of a future belief system. You are laying the foundation for increased harmony between the sexes. You are the bridge between men and women.  And what you write now may indeed show up in the textbooks of the future.

If you ask me that responsibility couldn’t be in better hands.

  • Wikimasters, Editors, Translators, and Writers Wanted *Apply Now*

    Fight Wikipedia censorship! A Voice for Men and WikiMANNia are working to increase knowledge of men's issues through two wikis: the AVfM Reference Wiki for scholarly references, and WikiMANNia for general-interest men's issues. Volunteers needed for writing, proofreading, and organizing. Some knowledge of the German language will be helpful but *not* required.

    Please write to editorial_team@wikimannia.org...

  • Paul Elam

    “If you ask me that responsibility couldn’t be in better hands.”

    Ditto

  • Tim Legere

    Atta boy Dan!

  • DruidV

    As much as I loathe the NAWALT defense, I have to reluctantly admit that there are a very small number of females who are actually brave enough to see and also to speak out.

    I’m being generous when I guesstimate about .00001% of women are adult enough to see the big lie and what it really means for everyone, let alone speak out against it.

    My fervent hope is that these NAWALT girls are spreading the MRM message to their blue-pill head sistahs and not wasting too much time here, preaching to the choir.

    The prospect of masses of female sympathizers seems dismal now, but a jug fills drop by drop…

    • 4thtroika

      Most NAWALTs are afraid to stick their necks out for fear of being kicked off the gravy train. To those few that do, I say, “Thank you.”

      • Paul Elam

        As do I. I used to think it a tad white knightish to specifically point to female MRAs and laud their work. But think about it. It says a great deal about these women, who have every fucking reason in the world to not only embrace entitlement, but to brag about it, to throw it in our faces like the rest of women in this culture.

        The fact that they shun the entitlement crap and call women and men out for perpetuating is absolutely worth special mention.

        Also, consider that Dan is 1000% correct. These women are the spearhead of social change. How many understandably disgruntled men could have the impact of a Dr. T? Typhon? GWW?

        These, and other women you can find right here on this site, are the ones that will be saving our boys in the future in the most tangible way possible; by standing up and calling bullshit on misandry and entitlement.

        Also want to say how incredibly good it feels to see Dan Moore’s name on a byline here again, especially with such an important piece as this. U rock Dan. Always did.

        • http://menzmagazine.blogspot.com/ Dan Moore (Factory)

          Thanks Paul. I aim to write a bit more in the coming weeks, if that’s cool..

        • Valerie_Solanas

          I don’t know if you all know about the events at the recent NYC dyke march, but Cathy Brennan was confronted by transactivists. Brennan had travelled there with long-time acquaintance/friend Kim Propeack Esq. a DC lawyer with the CASA organization. While details are making the trans-circuit, I wonder if OUTTING Propeack as a Transphobic radfem ally would be helpful to anyone for political pressure? Just an advisory ;)

      • OneHundredPercentCotton

        The legal system has my son in it’s claws, and any speaking up I do would back lash and harm him.

        I think a LOT of women are in my position.

        Years ago, a man my husband worked with was fired after his wife wrote the company a letter complaining about the young women getting all the desk jobs, leaving all the heavy lifting to men in their late ’50′s and 60′s.

        Everyone made fun of the guy, especially the men.

        Now that MY husband is that age and suffers from double hernias and various joint problems from doing the heavy lifting only younger guys used to do it’s not so damn funny anymore.

        I now understand what motivated that woman to speak up like she did. I also saw what happened when she did.

    • Raven01

      Most women that use the NAWALT argument are not fit to lick the boots of those women that really are not like that.
      I don’t know why these women are the way they are. I am just glad they are.
      Actually, I half expect jealousy of the women that aren’t like that to motivate more middle of the road women to examine the differences between the MRM and feminism. As much as feminists are loathe to admit it, the disproportion power women wield in mate selection is probably one of the last things most women would give up. And, frankly with the number of women that really are not like that so low it makes them veritable gems that if they chose could have guys lined up 6 wide and 30 deep any day.

      • http://patricestanton.com/ wholebrainartist

        I’ve seen the change in “feminism” – from what seemed like a true “liberation-movement” when I skipped off to the University in 1970 – to what it’s morphed into now: an all-out celebration of Dominance, with a side of Female-Reparations & Legal-Comeuppance-for-Men thrown in just because they can.

        I have always (for the year+ I’ve even been aware of the “MRM”) attributed the ease with which I “swallowed the red pill” to the simple fact that I’d seen those changes AND that I’d slammed the door (for a second time & second degree) on the halls-of-higher-learning/propaganda in 1981, which was still well before the feminist/Women’s Studies’ indoctrination got really really bad.

        I realize this still doesn’t explain how younger women such as GWW & Typhon Blue came so easily (?) to grasp the seriousness of the situation. Perhaps it’s simply because they are reasonable and thoughtful individuals.

        Then again I’m sure having sons would have brought-home the reality sooner for me or knowing a man who’d suffered at the hands of The Feminized System. Instead, until my fall down the rabbit hole last spring, all I really had was a tiny bit of abstract “head knowledge” (a copy of Christina Hoff-Sommers “War on Boys” I’d read partially).

        I only seek the Truth, even though it oftentimes shows me to have been the fool previously. I’m glad to be here.

        Sincerely,
        Patrice Stanton
        p.s. I hate that I am free, feel safe enough, to use my real name and so many men aren’t. To me that is a clear indication of the evil wrought by “Feminism.”

        • OneHundredPercentCotton

          Patrice, I joined the military in 1971, right out of high school, thinking it wasn’t fair that my brother was forced to serve while I sat home and sent cookies.

          I didn’t know what reaction to expect from the men I served with, but the reaction I got was resentment, bitterness, anger and blame. I was regarded as a feminist for encroaching on their domain, and on a very large scale I got my ass handed to me.

          So when I entered college in 1976 on my GI bill, feminism and women’s studies seem an appropriate place to gravitate toward. After all, I HAD just walked the feminist walk by being one of the very first women to do a very male dominated job.

          Of course, back then a woman serving in the military was held in the lowest of low esteem by everybody. The “respectable” male dominated jobs for women to demand were Physicians, attorneys, CEOs, police, and fire department.

          In class were were taught about the Rule Of Thumb, and WAVAW (Women against violence against women) featuring women’s degradation in movies and advertisment. Men are bad, women are good ruled the day. It was just after VietNam ended and men were particularly reviled, especially “baby killer” veterans.

          As badly as I had been treated, I knew 99% of what they said wasn’t true, and it sickened me to see how truly awful returning veterans were being treated. I had too many wonderful, supportive men in my life, including my husband to buy into the party line. I felt uneasy and like an outsider with this “movement” that was promising to let me have it all.

          In a Poly Sci class the male professor proudly presented a female attorney to speak to us about injustice toward women in the work place.

          At one point she began a tirade against Veteran’s Preference Points being Unfair To Women. Men were getting a 15 point lead on entrance exams for fire and police jobs just for being veterans! Not Fair!

          There were at least a half dozen male veterans, some visibly scarred or disabled, sitting there stoicly staring straight ahead. Not one man spoke up. It just wasn’t done back then.

          Finally I timidly raised my hand and said “…but I’m a Veteran AND a woman…you’d be taking those rights from me….”

          After a terminally long, cold stare down, Feminist Attorney sniffed “Everyone knows women join the service just to find a husband”.

          ..and continued her grievances.

          That was the day the curtain was pulled back and I saw what feminism was really about.

          • http://patricestanton.com/ wholebrainartist

            Funny you should say all that, for I, too, went into the Army in 1974 – out of college with a degree in geology and a husband w/ the same! We were old-fashioned back then in that we needed to keep “paying the rent” not to mention the school loans so “went in” only when we saw there was little other opportunity in our area.

            Alas my Army experience was a lot better than yours. As a geology student I was used to being the lone-female, but I also know that being married all through the stint made me bulletproof from a great deal. I did get the feeling that the women were assumed-”easy”-until-proven-otherwise!

            Let’s “talk” somewhere offline. I would enjoy that. Thanks to an MRA somewhere around here ;-) I “Skype” now…do you?

          • OneHundredPercentCotton

            Yes, I skype and would LOVE to connect. I’ve enjoyed your youtube presentations very much. Shall we meet up at Thomas Ball?

        • James Huff

          As we gain in power, and set up support systems for MRAs, there will be more and more of us able to use our real names. I look forward to that.

  • Fr Bob

    Awsome! I too would like to add my Ditto!

    Always good to hear from you Dan love your work and I still watch your videos from time to time.

  • scatmaster

    Well said and “Ditto”!

  • http://www.artistryagainstmisandry.com Jade Michael

    Forwarding this to the wife. Thanks Dan.

  • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

    I think “Lady MRAs” is pretty good. A lady is more than a woman, and waaaay more than a grrrl. And feminists HATE all that the term “lady” represents.

  • outdoors

    Nothing hurts feminist’ more than when women start to turn on them.

    Welcome back Factory.

  • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

    The Honey Badgers?

    ;)

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

      I could go for that!

  • OneHundredPercentCotton

    “MRM was a few hundred guys grumbling away on discussion boards, we never got around to finding a catchy name.”

    I am comfortaqble referring to myself as an “equalist”, rather than looking my daughter in the face and telling here I am a Men’s Rights supporter, or telling my son I support feminism as long as it doesn’t interfere with his rights….

    …not to mention there are men demanding preferential treatment and entitlements over other men because of race, sexual preference, or physical ablilites…

    All any of us have the right to demand is equality.

    Equal opportunity and equal treatment under the law is really what the Men’s Rights Movement is all about.

    I’m an Equalist. I support an unqualified Equal Rights Movement.

    • http://menzmagazine.blogspot.com/ Dan Moore (Factory)

      Which leads me to my next article…

      Paul, another one coming at you….

      • Paul Elam

        Oh damn. I hate it when that happens.

    • http://beijaflorbeyondthesunset.wordpress.com Rick Westlake

      Equalist – to my mind, that is an excellent label.

      Equal rights under the law.

      Equal responsibility under the law.

      Equal treatment on the job – meaning that if you can’t pass the fitness test, you don’t get a watered-down version. If you can’t tote the hose you don’t get to ride on the fire-engine. If you can’t shoulder the load, you don’t get the job. If you’re doing ‘apprentice/helper’ tasks on a work site, you get ‘apprentice/helper’ pay, not journeyman’s pay. And your pay is based on the amount and quality of the work you do, not on your anatomy.

      Equal opportunity to be killed or maimed on the job. Men suffer 94% of all workplace deaths? Do I smell discrimination here, or what?

      Equal treatment by the courts, especially ‘Family Court.’

      Equal rights and responsibilities as a parent.

      Equal chances of being hauled off for Domestic Violence; equal treatment (shelter, counseling, lawyers, etc.) for battered men.

      I like that label, and I’m adopting it for myself. Thank you for pointing it out!

    • kiwihelen

      100%cotton, I also struggle to explain to others what a LadyMRA is, so I go back to the roots of where my journey to MRA support began.
      I was raised by two loving parents who told us kids we could be anything we wanted to be if we worked hard and took responsibility for our actions. Then when feminists in school and college said ‘All men are bad, all men are oppressing us, all men are rapists.’ I kept saying ‘Not my father, not my brother.’ And also, by then I was meeting other men, in college, my lecturers and men in my Quaker Meeting. Some were assholes, but others were good people, kind people, human people…not some faceless patriarchy…so my list of men who were not the bad people the feminists said they were grew. I also learned that I could draw boundaries if a man was an asshole and mostly they got it…so different from the women in the ‘sisterhood’ who would persist in their bullying me because I would not join in their games or expect special treatment from men.
      Becoming active and activist crystallised around the experiences of a man who I love, and his victimisation by his ex wife, the family courts and his community displaying blatant misandry. As I read and understood that he was far from unique, I knew I had to start speaking and acting to declare Truth to Power. Uncomfortable Truths…
      I don’t detail MRA politics, unless I know I have time to do it justice. My Mum was visiting for 9 weeks and we talked a lot about it. There is now a 76 y/o lady MRA reading, listening and thinking about the issues and not afraid to speak out!
      With other folk, I let my life speak. I uphold the Quaker testimony of Equality. Quakers worked nearly 18 years to get ani-slavery laws supported in the UK. The abolition of slavery bill passed because so much other work was done to laws to prevent the slave ship owners gaining profit from their trade. I see this battle for equality needing the same tenacity and use of a wide range of tactics.
      I’m here because my nephews are not rapists, they are not patriarchal oppressors, they are not bad. Neither is my beloved, and neither are my patients.
      We are all human.

      • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

        “Lady MRA” makes me think of “Lady Gillette,” which is a razor, which makes me think of hairy leg stubble. But then that’s just my free association run amok.

        • Paul Elam

          and hairy legs makes me think of feminists, but I would not call that a loose association.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            Goodbye,

            And “loose association” makes me think of sluts—> slutwalks—> hairy legs—> “Lady Gillette,”—> “Lady MRA”, and this is just wrong to think like this.

            I am thinking in reverse and going mad am I ?

            Now go must I, and really insane quite it’s.

            Hello.

          • Steve_85

            I see what you did there Dr. F

          • OneHundredPercentCotton

            Another country song coming…

            She’s No Lady, She’s My ….MRA….

        • Tawil

          Lady Gillete, cracked me up… but hits the nail on the head. Equal rights advocate will be a fine alternative tag.

      • OneHundredPercentCotton

        I don’t have a problem explaining. Simply put, my son was falsely accused of rape. That will make an MRA out of you in six short weeks. I’m a mother of sons. I’m the mother of a “second wife” who suffers the resulting injustices her husband is forced to suffer. I’m married to a combat veteran. I have the finest brother, father, Grand father, nephews and brother in laws, and even the worst men I know are not worse than the worst women I know.

        …and I know some REALLY bad women.

      • Bewildered

        Aaaaw! This is brilliant !!!!!

        ” WE ARE ALL HUMAN ”

        If only people were to accept the incontrovertible truth of these 4 words the world would have been a better place to live in. The power of an ideology to blind you to reality is very scary.I dare say demons in the mind are more difficult to get rid off than actual evil !

        With due apologies to Abraham Lincoln I would like to quote from his Gettysburg address and adapt it to what I would like to say :

        With Malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right, as NATURE gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the PEOPLE’S wounds.
        —————————————Abraham Lincoln
        { the words in caps are the modified words}

  • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

    According to the Urban Dictionary:

    1. A Honey badger is one fearless mother fucker! She is the ultimate badass of the animal kingdom. No one knows what they look like as anyone who’s ever seen one has been immediately killed by said badger. They wouldn’t think twice about starting some shit and are actually totally fearless, when they kill something (usually 100+ kills a day) they crack open their victims skull with their teeth and eat their brain and digest their thoughts. This makes the Honey Badger the world most intelligent and ruthless mother fucker out there.

    2. The most fearless animal in the world. Honey badgers regularly eat bee larvae even though they get stung over 9000 times, steal food from much bigger animals like leopards, and even attack and eat poisonous snakes.

    A honey badger that is bit by one of the most venomous snakes in the world – a puff adder – will pass out for a few minutes, wake up all pissed, and proceed to eat the said snake.

    Honey badger don’t care. Honey badger don’t give a shit. It just takes what it wants!

    *Well, all but the last bit. I ask before I take and respect “No.”

    Overall, I like it.

    • http://menzmagazine.blogspot.com/ Dan Moore (Factory)

      Honey badgers are actually pretty badass. Then again, nearly all badgers are vicious motherfuckers….but honey badgers make everything else look like a total pussy.

    • Codebuster

      Aren’t they related to hamsters? And there’s nothing especially badass about a rationalisation hamster :)

      • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

        Maybe, but HBs are fierce and they don’t spin themselves round in circles until they drop. At least, I don’t think they do.

    • kiwihelen

      Hey Dr T if we are going to be bad ass Lady MRAs we gotta do it right and be Honey Badgers!

      • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

        Hi Helen!

        I learned about the honey badger from the guys at S4M. What I really wanna know is do we get customized jackets? Or maybe some hats?

        Dr F, will you design a logo for us? That is right after you and some of your fellow mates come over to my place for some lawn mower testing and air conditioner repair competition, that is :)

        • kiwihelen

          We could have a secret handshake…
          Do you think Dr F might want to come with some mates and help me fix the plumbing? They can even borrow my electric drill kit :)

          • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

            And I have two guns; one for staples and the other for glue!

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            No worries mate.

            I’ll be at Dr. Tara J. Palmatier’s place.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

          No worries mate.

          I’ll be at Kiwihelen’s place.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            Hey Dr. F mate,

            You can stay at my place while those two sheilas try to find you.

          • kiwihelen

            I’m restraining myself from adding XXXX to the shopping list in case ya turn up…knowing that Aussies can’t spell beer. (For the record, this is business as usual between our two nationalities – I am fully expecting the sheep jokes in return)

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            Kiwihelen,

            As someone who is proud to speak of his instigating and vigorously practicing a bizarre, and legally skirting indulgence, of commingling his primary sexual organ with the anus belonging to that of a domestic fowl, there will be no sheep jokes from me.

            Between you and me and the lamp post with no ears, I am quietly working my way up the food chain and will be by this time next year experimenting first with the less robust citizens of your country’s finest flock.

            P.S.
            You are correct about beer and Aussies. Sometimes I accidentally put each “e” in the wrong order.

          • Turbo

            @ Kiwihelen

            We dont call it XXXX because we cant spell beer, they call it XXXX in Queensland because they cant spell SHIT. Whoops, now I am gunna get it from our QLD friends.

            By the way, it is offensive to suggest that we would resort to gutter commentary such as the sheep analogy, I mean really, we here are above that sort of thing.

            Anyway, Baaahh, for now.

          • kiwihelen

            Ah, I miss living next door to the Great Southern Land… We better not start the POME jokes eh?
            Beer confession here, been living in Blighty so long, I’m starting to enjoy warm beer. I think I am risking my passport renewal…
            As for sheep, we can alway find someone else to make jokes about, when in Ireland I learned that Irish jokes were always ‘The man from Co. Kerry’, and in Kerry it was about the man from some small village in Kerry.
            Better go pack, gotta show my feminine skills this weekend…hope the 50th wedding anniversary cake I made is edible ;).

        • http://a-wayforward.blogspot.com/ caimis.vudnaus.

          Here’s a quickly thrown together logo you guys are welcome to use.

          https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8xPFIPRZ75Ab29FeG5WbTAtYms

          I tried to post it as an image but the site ate my post so you’ll have to go to it to look at the logo.

    • xnook

      Dr. T, it would sure as hell be interesting of you ladies could take over “honey badgers” and make it your own.

      • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

        Hi xnook, good to see you over here!

    • Raven01

      Honey badgers does have a feminine ring to it.
      If not for the bad movie from the 80′s re-branding MRA’s as wolverines would have been a perfect compliment.
      Wolverines dads even get “custody” to teach the young.

      “Fathers make visits to their offspring until they are weaned at 10 weeks of age; also, once the young are about 6 months old, some reconnect with their fathers and travel together for a time.[22]”
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine

      Damn “Red Dawn” to hell. It even works on another level with as Dan put it, “increased harmony between the sexes. “. Different but, complimentary relations. As it should have been all along.

      • andybob

        “Honey badgers does have a feminine ring to it.” Mr Raven01.

        I think Honey Badger has a porn star ring to it. Now wouldn’t that put a few feminist noses out of joint?

  • Robert St. Estephe

    This article contains a welcome message. Few people will listen to a heterosexual man discussing the rights of heterosexual men. Not in this heavily brainwashed culture (Besides, men are naturally dismissive of men’s rights because of instinctual chivalry). From early on in my involvement with Fathers’ Rights and Men’s Rights I saw that the future of this civil rights movement was going to involve the female voice. I offer her some new research that will place the early years more like a century ago rather than just “decades.” But in the early 20th century those leading women who spoke out for men’s rights were not in the least lost and confused. They were confident and deeply informed. The dark ages was the creation of the 1960s and cultural Marxism.

    We are now beginning to reveal the historical truth, facts which contradict the false historical narrative of the relations between the sexes that has been foisted on us beginning in the 1970s by the Frankfurt School Marxists, which is now the official, orthodox, narrative.

    – Here is a 1904 piece on AVfM
    http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chivalry/golden-age-of-the-mangina/

    – Here is a 1912 piece on women’s rights activists (non-marxists) saying “Give Men Rights”
    http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2012/05/1912-early-feminists-against-misandry.html

    – Here is a new post, from 1921, on UHoM by the first female member of the US House of representatives with the title “Disarmament of Women Demanded” including this quote: “Women who murder get off too easy. They’re not judged according to the same standards as men who murder, but you don’t hear the suffragists demanding equal rights for the men, do you? No the suffragists want equal rights for women with special privileges.”
    http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2012/06/disarmament-for-women-demanded.html

    – Here is an introduction to 14 Early Female Anti-Misandry Legislators, Judges and Writers (1921-1954)
    http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/08/female-anti-misandry-legislators-judges.html

    “Herstory” is collapsing! Girls and boys, please take these links and use them to quicken the collapse.

  • Robert St. Estephe

    This article contains a welcome message. Few people will listen to a heterosexual man discussing the rights of heterosexual men. Not in this heavily brainwashed culture (Besides, men are naturally dismissive of men’s rights because of instinctual chivalry). From early on in my involvement with Fathers’ Rights and Men’s Rights I saw that the future of this civil rights movement was going to involve the female voice. I offer her some new research that will place the early years more like a century ago rather than just “decades.” But in the early 20th century those leading women who spoke out for men’s rights were not in the least lost and confused. They were confident and deeply informed. The dark ages was the creation of the 1960s and cultural Marxism.

    We are now beginning to reveal the historical truth, facts which contradict the false historical narrative of the relations between the sexes that has been foisted on us beginning in the 1970s by the Frankfurt School Marxists, which is now the official, orthodox, narrative.

    – Here is a 1904 piece on AVfM
    http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chivalry/golden-age-of-the-mangina/

    – Here is a 1912 piece on women’s rights activists (non-marxists) saying “Give Men Rights”
    http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2012/05/1912-early-feminists-against-misandry.html

    – Here is a new post, from 1921, on UHoM by the first female member of the US House of representatives with the title “Disarmament of Women Demanded” including this quote: “Women who murder get off too easy. They’re not judged according to the same standards as men who murder, but you don’t hear the suffragists demanding equal rights for the men, do you? No the suffragists want equal rights for women with special privileges.”
    http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2012/06/disarmament-for-women-demanded.html

    – Here is an introduction to 14 Early Female Anti-Misandry Legislators, Judges and Writers (1921-1954)
    http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/08/female-anti-misandry-legislators-judges.html

    “Herstory” is collapsing! Girls and boys, please take these links and use them to quicken the collapse.

  • .ProleScum.

    Great, timely piece Dan.

    Lady MRAs/Honey Badgers rock!

    • http://patricestanton.com/ wholebrainartist

      I know nothing about Honey Badgers, so have nothing against them personally, but sorry, the name has some kind of sexual “ring” to it for me…

      (As the guy from “Ally McBeal” used to say…) “Bygones.”

      That said, how about, Ms.MRA’s? (Preparing for flak.)

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

    Mr. Moore,

    I like this article thank you. It’s short and sweet and not long and sour like me.

    To all the MRA sheilas out there, from me, a great big girly kiss on the lips and a rib bending hug.

    Quite frankly, here’s my plan I want to do with you lot:

    I want to take you all home and have a big eight course lunch of chocolates and cheese cake. After that, we can have pillow fights and talk about shoes an’ shit and then compare our nails.

    Yep, and then we’ll flip through catalogues showing photos of cell phones and hair products and go “ooh” and “ahh.”

    After that the fun really kicks in, check it out.

    I have a bunch of vacuum cleaners and we can test them out all over the house. You know, like a chick competition as to who can clean up the most an’ shit. If that goes down a treat I’ll break out all the cleaning products that I know bugger all about, and you lot can show me how they work by demonstrations.

    Then we’ll go into the kitchen and have another competition and see who can make the most delicious foods in a couple of hours. I’ll even freeze all the dinners in my Tupperware containers as I have hundreds of the bastards.

    Matey’s, think about it. All the chocs and Tupperware stuff and the competitions and nails and pillow fightin’ and shit. I’m getting pretty damned excited just thinking about it.

    If I’m not there when you come over, the key is under the 12 foot high cement sculpture of Dr. F near the front door. If about, ooh I dunno, eight of you get together and push on it you’ll be able to tip it no worries.

    Don’t wait for me. Just get started on them vacuums and that kitchen competition and I’ll be around later with another sheila that I met that day. Her and me might have to go straight to the master bedroom to plan stuff for more competitions for you lot an’ shit.

    I must go now.

  • Kimski

    “These women ARE what feminism pretends to be.”

    Precisely, and that’s actually really really funny and sad at the same time, when you think about it.
    50 years of trying, and feminism is still moving further and further away from any resemblance with equality.

    • http://patricestanton.com/ wholebrainartist

      It almost makes you suspect it never really was about “equality,” doesn’t it…

      • Shrek6

        It has never been about equality! This Marxist brand of feminism that has infected this world for the last 100+ years, has never been about equality.

        It has only ever been about divide and conquer, with the intent of changing the social structures of the world.. And the end result, is the introduction of a one world govt.
        This is more easily achieved, if you have emasculated all the men. Just as Stalin was successful with the initial experiment of this brand of feminism, the successes throughout the western world to date, have been astonishing to say the least. Well, as far as the ‘one world people’ are concerned that is.

        And the women are loving it!

  • Skeptic

    I try to keep things simple, so I have a simple term I apply to females who take responsibility for themselves rather than leech off men with their parasitic privileged mentality.
    These females hate being pedestalized as some kind of special superior sexual being and are intelligent and mature enough to recognize men’s plight and act with appropriate compassion.
    These females enjoy men’s strength also, rather than fear it and jealously covet it.

    I call them women.

    Or sometimes to recognize our filial connection I’ll call them sister.

    As for the masses of females who haven’t matured to such a degree, who immaturely cling to female privilege and have a default position of entitlement and sexual victimhood – I call them girls………….

    and not very nice girls either, but rather dangerous narcissistic girls.

  • Shrek6

    Although I agree with those who say female MRAs’ are as scarce as Hen’s Teeth, I also agree we must recognise those women who support men in their uniquely mature fashion.
    They are indeed a breath of fresh air, especially when in our own personal lives, 99.99% of men will never meet a woman like this.

    So ladies, I take my hat off to you and thank you for your support and for all the heat you take from the vast majority of over-privileged sistahs out there.

    Dr. T, I like the Honey Badger thing. Geez, gives me the shivers just thinkin about it!

    And Dan, thanks to you for taking the time to point this fact out. Great article!

  • http://www.genderratic.com typhonblue

    @ Dan

    I like honey badgers. But if you want a contender for the position of overarching title…

    I put out ‘The Compassion for Men Movement.’ For your consideration.

    I think it’s concise, in that it exactly specifies what MRAs are fighting for and the absence of it in society is what underlies every issue men face.

    Further it’s good position statement in that it forces everyone against the movement to explain why they’re against compassion for men. It puts them on their back foot right before they even engage our arguments.

    Oh, and thanks for the article. It really has been a long time hasn’t it. :)

    • http://menzmagazine.blogspot.com/ Dan Moore (Factory)

      I REALLY like where you’re headed with that, but frankly I see something developing I’m not convinced even you see right now.

      Every article on sexual relations, or social expectations, or gender roles of BOTH sexes, or critical of female misbehavior, or any other of the articles directed at women, with a truly balanced and aware viewpoint…all of that forms the basis of a code of ethics for women, of a sort.

      A way to understand men better, and themselves better. And more importantly the permission to admit gender differences are not only fact, but normal and ok.

      By trying to explain men’s rights issues from a female perspective, to females, you have founded a new thing. One worthy of protection and nurturing. The female equivalent to zeta. Masculinity.

      So, be proud of your accomplishment (all of you) and continue to build on that framework. But with a cool name. :)

      • keyster

        By trying to explain men’s rights issues from a female perspective, to females, you have founded a new thing.

        I wouldn’t limit the female MRA to other women. It’s other men that’ll pay more attention to a female voice as well.

        A woman makes if OK to try a Red Pill.
        A man will “obviously” be perceived as biased.

    • http://menzmagazine.blogspot.com/ Dan Moore (Factory)

      Oh, and since I keep forgetting how long ago this all started, I’d like to state for the record that my very first MRA bbs that I attended, typhon was already a member.

      And that had to be close to 15 years ago….

      • Paul Elam

        I hear me a country song in that.

        I Knew Typhon Before She Was Blue.

      • http://www.genderratic.com typhonblue

        Oh yes, soc.men.

        Probably still has my evolution from purple pill to red pill all archived there.

        And it’s nice to see the stuff I was talking about on syg so long ago being realized here on avfm.

        Almost 15 years? Has it really been that long? It’s so funny listing to newcomers talk about the mrm not going anywhere, when old timers like you and me have seen its evolution from forums and bbs with maybe 1500 members to a subreddit forum that gains 1500 members _a month._

        Not to mention successful websites like avfm.

  • JFinn

    Thank you to the women who aren’t like that.

    Girlwriteswhat talked about how women in the MRM unfairly get more attention, using her quick rise from the start as opposed to less popular veteran youtubers as evidence.

    I call poppycock on “unfairly.” Women here may get more attention because MRAs are waging a war against misandrist women and men, rather than a war against all women. This makes female MRAs especially appreciated.
    /my humble opinion.

  • JinnBottle

    To me, Girl Writes What is one of the best, most effective MRAs we have. Her camera presence and smoothness of content delivering are BIG assets, and going to get bigger. Also, she’s one of the few of us who has excellent mastery over the written word. (I mean including rhetoric, spelling, grammar, etc. There’s more of us who are brilliant *writers*, but whose stumbles over “mechanics” detracts – more than such minor matter should, I know, but that’s the way with writing-mechanics.)

    Up until a recent radio show, I had – for no discoverable reason, now that I think about it – been glad Typhon Blue was with us, but considered her “a bit young”.

    Then I saw/heard her when she put forth her position that women should support the men, without trying to dictate to them, or “get in men’s space”.

    To me, that is the absolute ideal. Thanx, Typhon.

  • Stu

    I used to be very skeptical of women that were speaking out for men, a long time ago. I always hoped they were real, and wanted them to be real, but they often turned out to be traditionalists who just wanted a return to a different kind of female entitlement, or just a feminist that had issue with one or two of the items on the feminist entitlement list. And the rest of their views were pretty much in line with our enemies.

    But I’ve always known, when the real thing comes along, they will have more impact than any man ever could, and this is partly because of feminism having elevated women’s voices to the only legitimate voices licensed to speak on gender issues. Just the fact that the person behind the mic, or the podium, or on that screen is female, means people will actually listen to what she has to say, rather than dismiss as soon as they say anything that is not in agreement with feminists.

    It takes an exceptional person to rise above the indoctrination and cultural norms in the society they were born and raised in, especially when that society favors them, and offers them many advantages for going with the flow and singing the same tune as everyone else. We definitely need to guard the gates carefully, and be sure not to let the flood of impersonators and pretenders in, but we also need to recognize the real thing when they show up, and allow the purple pill women to take their small steps towards our side of the fence.

    As for the MRA label, I think it is needed at this point in time. We have to make some real progress towards turning the tide before we abandon it for something more egalitarian. We can’t afford to share our resources at all, with any other cause, or include anybody else’s issues in our fight for justice. We are still to small, and must focus on men’s rights, and only men’s rights. We are a counter weight against feminism at this point, and a very lite counter weight at that. At this point in time, we need to attract people who want to throw their weight behind the fight for men’s rights, not to saving the whales, or solving any other problems in the world. All those other causes already have much more money and people fighting for them than we do. Even animal rights come before men’s rights. There is far more money spent caring about homeless dogs than homeless men.

    More women in the MRM will be great, but only if they are the right women, with the right stuff. By being completely focused on men’s rights, we actually repel the women with the wrong stuff. There is just not anything else to do here except fight for men’s rights, which is why the women we have, are exceptional.

    The women in the MRM also send very powerful messages to other women. Basically, if you are a feminist, men will dislike you. If you are an MRA, men will love you lol. When a young women looks at some radical code pink man hating harpy, and then looks at Dr T, GWW, Typhone, or any of the women on our side, it’s like, who do I want to be like? Hated and despised vs loved and cherished…..mmmmmm…..tough choice.

    Their presence in the MRM, also gives us men the opportunity to show, that we are not misogynists, and that we have no problem working with women, and having women at the top of our organizations, but, on merit, by earning it, not by crying and whining, or tits and ass.

    The women that are part of AVFM are the greatest.

  • Skeptic

    Reading this fine piece of writing I keep thinking of a woman who did stirling work against feminists for several decades – Erin Pizzey.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey

  • blueface

    Excellent article, and short. I don’t know how to do short.

    For me there are still issues regarding a definition of “the problem” which is why we don’t have a “solution”.

    It’s certainly not a gender thing. It’s certainly true that there are many women, and I think it is many, who agree with the general sentiments expressed here.

    Feminism is an embodiment of the problem, but it’s a manifestation and not the root cause. I think JtO and GWW were closer to the mark with their radio show “Is feminism just psychopathy dressed up.”

    For me, I just want some basic simple things like decency, honesty and sanity in my life.

    And your right, women must be a part of that.

    And you are also right. Knowing what you are against is a different thing from knowing what you are for.

    Whatever we aim for, it has to be something new. Socialism, big government, big business, etc are just other manifestations of the same problem, which is why they are fine with feminism and feminism is fine with them.

    Certainly needs more thought. The thinking cap is on……

  • Eye in the Sky

    Women in the MRM are a ray of light in a darkening world.

    I’d like to suggest a new name for the White Knights, feminist apologists, and other assorted manginas. In the spirit of calling a spade a spade, they should be called what they really are: Pawns.

  • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

    NAWALT is just another example of how most women suck at math.

    When NAWALT is used it is to throw a wrench into an argument without really addressing the salient issue.

    Men who lose their children to their ex-wives is not the issue to most women. NAWALT is the issue.

    Saying NAWALT is just a way of not agreeing with MRA’s on issues that there is no disagreement to be had.

    NAWALTS is almost always true but to someone who faces discrimination from 90% of women it is little comfort.

    When someone say NAWALT I say, “Which ones?” I challenge them to tell me which women aren’t like that. Show me one. How do I determine which ones aren’t going to divorce me and take my children? Which ones won’t try to get knocked up by secretly not taking their birth control? Which ones won’t get drunk one night and try to stab me and then call the cops and get me put in jail for DV?

    For those women who say NAWALT they never have an answer to this question. Their attempt to silence me through NAWALT ends up silencing them.

    NAWALT is irrelevant. Not all Germans were Nazis but that didn’t stop Hitler from killing millions of Jews.
    Not all whites wanted slavery but that didn’t stop Africans from being imported as slaves.

    Women who say “NAWALT” are usually not included in NAWALT. They ARE like that.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      I know the futility of this conversation, but do I dare point out the many Germans were imprisoned and killed opposing Nazis? And many German Americans fought and died opposing Nazis, as well.

      Not all whites wanted slavery and organized the Under Ground Railroad, abolition movement and civil rights.

      Black people tend to disparage all whites as “racists” while forgetting many took the beatings, burnings and murders as well.

      …and now those same “whites” remain loyal even while told what racist haters they are because they are white.

    • kiwihelen

      You ask where are the women who are not like that…simply we ARE hard to find, because often we’ve gotten to the point we are not out hunting for a man to support us.
      I had come to the radical step of knowing I was leaving the dating game behind and focusing on my career and studies.
      My beloved is a man from my past and we do a long distance relationship that will remain as that until either the kids from his first marriage are both adults and he is free to join me, or I have a job with similar earning capacity and responsibility to the one I have now to go to in his locality. Any commitment we make will have the equivalent of a ‘pre-nuptial’ to maintain separate economic identities.
      Much to our regret we are past child bearing, but had we had children, the SAHP would have been decided on by earning power, using the role models set by my 3 older siblings (brother and BIL both were SAHP for now adult children, BIL2 and sister coshared the responsibility in their own business)
      Simply, a woman who is not like that has become comfortable with her own identity and doesn’t NEED a man She choses a relationship because she genuinely wants to be with that person, but it won’t be at any cost… It will be on terms they both are agreeable to.
      (I might add, he was more blue pill than me at the start of this and it took a lot of explaining why the job and legal issues were non-negotiables)

  • keyster

    I’ll take it a step further Dan to say; if the MRM is to be successful (success measured by mainstream recognition, if not acceptance), it won’t be a man that does it, because society will never allow it.

    Identity politics is the order of the day, the reality, like it or not. A man or group of men taking a stand against feminism (cultural translation WOMEN), and promoting “men’s rights” vis a vis “the rights women have fought so hard for” – is a zero sum game.

    Image MATTERS and you have to play by the rules to break-through. The Male of the movement doesn’t have chance if it doesn’t adapt. No one will listen to him and he’ll be subject to all manner of ridicule and shaming. That’s the way it is and it’s not about to change anytime soon.

    What’s needed is a charismatic, well-spoken, relatively attractive woman for the MRM to rally behind…because it can NEVER be a man. She gives good face and presents a compelling interesting argument, (think Steinem, not Freidan).

    (As I’ve said the early 90′s Camille Paglia is close to a model for this type of woman, although her bombacity was a distraction).

    What’s the first step you ask?
    Establish a NARRATIVE in a female voice.
    Write a book, publish it, promote it, get it out there.
    And every TRUE MRA should be 100% behind this effort.

    The Times are ripe for this – the cultural window is open. If the MRM, led by men, was going to break-through, it would have by now. We’re incapable of it. That sounds rather Misandric I know, but those are the facts on the ground.

    • Sting Chameleon

      In other words, we need a female Trojan Horse.

      • keyster

        Sort of, yes.
        It’s image, it’s perception; presentation on the front lines.

        The Athiests of America were perceived as a bunch of angry white middle aged men. They placed a young,
        attractive well-spoken woman as president to help shift that image (and attract more women and younger men).

        MRA’s (and Men) tend to be so damn literal about the world, or how they envision the world SHOULD work. It’s political, it’s PR and it’s marketing. The Femocracy has an informed and sophisticated approach to the machinations of a successful social movement.

        MRA’s do not. They’re still struggling to formulate a narrative. I’d like to think that work is done and the time for REAL activism (through a mainstream break-through) is soon upon us. Will we be ready? Can we control our “Andrea Dworkins”? Can we temper the misogyny?

  • http://patricestanton.com/ wholebrainartist

    I admit it, I’m “old school.” Today is my husband and my 20th anniversary and I made this for him but I wanted to share it here too. I’m fool enough to believe there are young women out there (please, oh, please) that won’t make a man’s life a living Hell. I’m also fool enough to hope there are men out there who will, some day, be given something sort of like this on such an occasion.

    (Sorry: There seems to be a glitch in the vid – some of the middle is missing…maybe try viewing on YT. Title: “Dear James,” channel: patricesez)

  • knightrunner

    Most good women have a man that they care about. What effects men effects those good women.Lady MRAs are a natural part of the progression of the MRM. I for one see them as a asset. Most men are here because their backs have been shoved against the wall. The women that are here have rejected their entitlements and our down here digging ditches through solid granite with us. They bring a ray of hope and at the very least they piss off the feminist.
    Paul: What do you think about a 5th show? The divine secrets of the honey badger sisterhood perhaps.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      HoneyBadgerSisterhood is pretty flippin’ cute!

      Although much smaller in stature, a Honeybadger Vs. Mommabear could make for an interesting dust up.

  • keyster

    An MRA’s sex is irrelevant; however the outward perception people have of it is very relevant.

  • Skeptic

    I appreciate the work being done by the women MRAs at aVfM. I agree it makes a difference when women are seen as being anti-feminist as it offers a female role model for other females to follow.
    However, I’m trying to be rational and objective in doing the math. Out of MANY MILLIONS of possible women who could have become active MRAs over the years I can still count a minute number of women who talk the MRA talk and walk the MRA walk.
    So extrapolating that trend at it’s current rate I can expect to know as few as say, 50 active women MRA by 2050.
    I’m therefore not filled with much hope that many westernized feminist influenced ‘women’ will drop their entitlement mentality and become active MRA any time soon during my lifetime.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      I attended segregated schools as a kid. I saw a world where mothers didn’t go to work, drugs, out of wedlock pregnancy and divorce were RARE.

      …and I’m not 60 years old yet.

      A lot can change in a relatively short amount of time.

      Not to pessimistic, but I believe all but a very few (1%?) are going to end up dropping their entitlement mentality here pretty shortly.

      Infighting and bickering keeps attention away from the bigger picture.

      • Skeptic

        I too have seen in my lifetime the facets of western life you mention regarding work, drugs, out of wedlock birth and divorce.
        So I can agree the changes have been large in a relatively short amount of time.
        However, you don’t give any reasons why you believe “all but a very few (1%?) are going to end up dropping their entitlement mentality here pretty shortly.”
        So I’m not clear what you base such optimism on.
        Personally looking at the cold hard facts on the ground (I’ve known of little more than a handful of active female MRA in my entire life) I don’t see how another cohort of GirlWritesWhats, TyphoonBlues and Dr Ts are going to suddenly spring up. That’s not to belittle their efforts to inculcate spoilt girls via the airwaves and internet into being adult women with compassion for men, but simply to point out what I see and ask where are these legions of women breaking ranks with feminism and showing an interest in the MRM?

        • OneHundredPercentCotton

          I was being pessimistic – not optimistic. I don’t see enough prosperity in our future to continue with spoiled brat entitlements – we’re all (most of us anyway) in a sinking boat together, and the sooner it’s realized, the sooner we circle the wagons and work together.

          So this time last year did you think GWW, Dr. T or TYB would still be slugging it out for men’s rights?

          This time last year I thought I was the last woman in the world with any sense of justice or fair play. What a wonderful thing to find there ARE female justice warriors. Intelligent, eloquent and thoughtful women with, from what I can tell, motivations that are pure.

          • Skeptic

            There’s plenty of prosperity in future if Haremica decides to plunder outside it’s national borders.
            In fact then the world is literally your oyster, isn’t it?
            Don’t expect feminist Haremica to be so imperialist?
            I mean they’ve only 130 overseas military bases as it is. Only more global military firepower including nukes than the rest of the world’s nations combined. Oh, and looky here Haremica has taken to drone striking with impunity wherever it Goddam likes, so feminist Haremican governance would never be tempted to use all that power over others would they?
            Yeah, right.

            It’s true that a year ago I didn’t know of how GWW, Dr. T or TYB would be slugging it out for men’s rights.
            So applying logic to that numerical fact – that’s three women per year with their level of social influence.
            I’m afraid that doesn’t really encourage me to believe your idea that “all but a very few (1%?) are going to end up dropping their entitlement mentality here pretty shortly.”

          • DruidV

            It seems there are a scant few females at AVFM who actually understand and perhaps are even capable of feeling some of our very justifiable indignation at our own disenfranchisement from the hands of our past fifty years worth of wimmin. It is also worth noting that we appreciate your Herculean restraint of the use of shaming language and/or insinuations that we have “bad attitudes”.

            We AVFM men understand that this compulsive use of shaming language is an almost inherent genetic predisposition for western females and your individual efforts to keep it stifled, are above and beyond!

            Kudos to all three of you!

          • OneHundredPercentCotton

            Skeptic, again you misunderstand. The 1% I refer to is the power elite, not women.

          • Skeptic

            “Skeptic, again you misunderstand. The 1% I refer to is the power elite, not women.”

            Thanks for clarifying your earlier statement. When you write with enough clarity then I can understand what you’re saying.
            Yes, I agree there are a small minority who wield power for themselves, who you refer to as the 1%.
            I’m also cognizant of a much larger percentage of the population who cling to entitlements whilst turning a blind eye to males’ plight – women (apart from a tiny band who support Men’s Rights).
            So far nobody has explained to me how they think that huge cohort of privileged entitlement princesses is going to be persuaded to become Pro MRA, drop their victim mentality and embrace adulthood.
            So, based on what I’ve observed over several decades now, I’m still expecting the ranks of female MRA to swell at a snails pace. For as much as I wish it weren’t so, that’s precisely what I’m seeing to date.
            But perhaps I’m out of the loop and a female MRA (or as JtO refers to them Zeta female) can tell us how they expect to win the greater mass of women over more quickly?
            Until I get such an explanation (and find it convincing) I don’t see any reason to agree with you about the pace of female change.
            I’ll be here over the short term to see whose prediction comes true and who had the more realistic prognosis for the pace of female change.

  • externalangst

    In regard to the perceptions of men working in the MRM and the number of women MRAs in the future:

    Anything is possible in politics

  • http://lifespeculiarities.blogspot.com/ Izzey

    Hmmm… I’m feeling a little left out here. lol!

    Actually, I am so happy to see Dan Moore posting articles again. (I was pulling for you Dan)

    I am also very happy to see GWW, Typhonblue, and most especially Dr. T. doing all the fine work they have been doing here.

    For years I was involved in the streets (still am) and then I met Paul long before this website was created. It was also then, that I really got involved online.

    But these three women are not alone.

    My wish is that more women will become aggressively involved. It is only then that a society that favors them, will take notice and effect a fair and truely “equal” balance of the scales.

  • Skeptic

    Somewhat off the topic of this thread but related -

    I see the powers that be are already swiftly working on their next ponzy scheme designed to transfer wealth, health and power from men to women.
    A provision of Obamacare that divorced fathers ought to pay close attention to is the extension of “dependent children” to age 26. (http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/06/28/health-care-bill-closer-to-reality-child-support-to-be-extended-to-26/)

    I can’t see the electoral majority (women) voting for that and it becoming law – sarcasm on.

    Tick……tick……..tick……..

  • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

    Frankly, I think it’s sad that we need women to speak for us just so we can get fair treatment.

    Supposedly we have all the power and yet our disadvantages are so clear. Meanwhile, we can’t even speak up for ourselves without the help of women.

    I hate that. I find it disgusting. I’m not saying I don’t appreciate that there are female MRA’s. But it bothers me that we are supposedly all equal and yet a man’s voice is not allowed to be heard or spoken. I am considered wrong because I am male.

    How will getting women to speak for us change that?

    It won’t. It will reinforce female power over men.

    I’ve had enough of that already.

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

      Yes, it’s disgusting. However since you’re not “allowed” to speak for yourselves, someone (to whom a few of teh wimminz might listen) must speak for you. Or the “official” silence will continue, because you’re Them.

      It was the men in power who gave women the legal right to have a voice. Now that teh wimmins have most of the power, it’s time to pressure them into giving it back.

      It IS appalling that men must now fight to regain the masculine identities with which they were born, but it’s an undeniable reality. Women will speak for you or women will speak against you, but the truth is, women are currently the only ones allowed to speak at all.

      Fight smart. Use our power, to reclaim your power.

      • Gamerp4

        Although your right in this present scenario there seems to be only women who have a “right” to speak but why were they given all the power, i am still amazed that the socalled call for “equality” and “women’s right” were actually female supremacy altogether.

        I donot believe in the analogy of NAWALT, because after all women with MRA’s or With Feminism gain most out of the system today, no matter how much we in MRM say that we believe in NAWALT but there is a fear in us that women can screw us anywhere they like because of the power they have, I am not going to trust any women if thats matter, i will always have open eyes and open mind when confronting women and i dont need women to reclaim my manhood or masculinity and women dont own it, they own the system but not the individual living in it.

        • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

          “… i dont need women to reclaim my manhood or masculinity and women dont own it, they own the system but not the individual living in it.”

          My point exactly. As I said, we can speak for you or we can speak against you – since we “own” the system, we CAN speak. Women are either assets to MRAs, or we’re liabilities. Whether or not you make practical use of the ones who speak “for” you, is up to you.

          Unlike what you’re accustomed to in women, female MRAs aren’t asking for men’s trust, gratitude or devotion. We’re simply trying to do what’s right, and we will continue to do so with or without men’s blessings. We’re kind of used to being viewed with suspicion, so rejection rarely hurts our feelings.

          • Bev

            “female MRAs aren’t asking for men’s trust, gratitude or devotion. We’re simply trying to do what’s right, and we will continue to do so with or without men’s blessings.”

            I have to agree. I do what I do because it is the right thing to do.

  • http://lifespeculiarities.blogspot.com/ Izzey

    For the record–

    I cannot stand this label “NAWALT”

    It should be NAPALT.
    Not All People Are Like That.

    Because we sure do have our fair share of chivalrous, white knight, mangina’s running around….enabling all of this bullshit.

    Hence, that metaphorical little red pill we are pushing here.

    I guess that makes me one of the ‘pill pushers’.
    Yeah, I like that. Call me that.

    I’m a red-pill-pushing-bitch.

    • DruidV

      For every white knight and mangina still out there, there are 10,000 chivalrous, feminist and traditionalist females shaming him, abusing him and manipulating him emotionally for their own personal gain, as well as otherwise encouraging him to harm other males for their own personal benefit.

      Within the manosphere, white knights and manginas are still endemic, but the cancer is slowly being cut out, one male at a time.

      The same absolutely CANNOT be said of the overall female populace of the Western world at large.

      The term “NAWALT defense” was coined by MRA’s for a very specific, as well as for a very good reason.

      The very idea of watering it down with gender neutral language, is laughable on its face.

      “naWalt defense” is an appropriate, truthful term and it should remain unchanged till the “W” changes its mindset, across the board.

      Demographically, there are certainly far more Men who see and get the big lie and work against it, than there are women.

      • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

        “Demographically, there are certainly far more Men who see and get the big lie and work against it, than there are women.”

        Of course. Women don’t see the problem, short- or long-term. We’re working on that, right beside you.

        • Gamerp4

          Maybe you are but not “All” of them, as i said i donot believe the term NAWALT, because after all it was the womyn who fought for feminism “female supremacy” it was them who saw oppression in everything, and it is still them who are driving radical feminism.

          So ya 10 of “You” may make a small change but the vast majority of the WOMYN still want “US” to pay the due of our forefathers socalled “subjugation”.

          [..My point exactly. As I said, we can speak for you or we can speak against you – since we “own” the system, we CAN speak. Women are either assets to MRAs, or we’re liabilities. Whether or not you make practical use of the ones who speak “for” you, is up to you...]

          I donot see any women speaking for us at all, not in the media, not in public sphere, (I am not saying you, i am just generalizing) hack i dont even see those women whose SON was badly treated or faced the false allegations of rape and DV. either way I just want women in MRA to follow, not to lead us to another female supremacy because we have it enough already , and it is “you” who has to decide how your gonna be an asset to MRM and how far you want to be used.

          Even though i still donot have any trust to give you because of my past repercussions, I still believe that womyn in MRM has to go far to gain the trust because we were burned by the poison you and your sister supported and are still supporting.

          [...Of course. Women don’t see the problem, short- or long-term. We’re working on that, right beside you...]

          Hmm I see so my denying the term NAWALT is pretty much analyzed by your upper comment, as i dont see women having any problem with the current system, because after all lets face it, it was Thomas Ball who killed himself not his wife. But still i want woman like you in MRM because we have to keep walking side by side for humanity and civilization to survive.

          • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

            Actually I tend to ignore the term NAWALT. It’s true, but it doesn’t prove anything.

            Also, I think I was unclear about something. When I said we can speak “for” you, I didn’t mean we’ll do your speaking instead of letting you do it. I meant we can speak “in favor of” you rights. Beside you, not in your place; there are quite enough women trying to take “your place.”

      • http://lifespeculiarities.blogspot.com/ Izzey

        That was an ‘Izzey post’ out of frustration for what feels like the rest of the world not moving fast enough for me.

        To address your excellent rebuttal…

        I still hate the label. It is probably because it used sarcastically most times. (I do have to clarify that it is used the least sarcastic, here at AVFM)

        It stings a bit. (I do have the occasional ‘thin-skinned’ day.)

        I stand corrected. And your post is one of the best I’ve seen addressing the term.

        Izzey

  • Skeptic

    Legally ALL USA women are exactly like that, and until they decide to mature into responsible adulthoood by getting off their collective infantile entitled arses will continue to be so.

  • MenDiscontinued

    Why is it that the “ones who aren’t like that” the very first to bitch and complain? Are they defending bad behavior in other women for a reason? They shouldn’t be getting pissed off at all, they should be supportive, by all logic tells me…. so confusing.

    • Lorenzo Benito

      If Girlwriteswhat is to be believed, what they are doing is what comes naturally to most women: when they see or hear something they don’t like, they complain until men come and change it to their liking.

      Since it is usually an effective tactic, you can hardly blame them for sticking to it.