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The unspoken side of rape

Please be forewarned that many people will find this article highly offensive.  That being the case, a disclaimer is in order, particularly for those easily offended. 

This article was written with the intent of offending. In fact, that is pretty much its primary purpose.

Unfortunately, when addressing instances of male disadvantage or female power in this society, offence is a necessary evil. We are a culture blinded and brainwashed by decades (arguably millennia) of disinformation and propaganda about men and women. We are also a species of animal more or less hardwired to take a dim view of compassion for men and boys.  This leaves us with few tools to rattle people out of complacency and into a thoughtful discussion of those issues.

Intentional offence is one of them, and it is one proven to work as this website has repeatedly demonstrated.

This disclaimer is not an apology for, nor a retraction of, any of the points in the article. It is simply a clarification of context regarding the articles’ style, content and delivery. When society evolves to the point where we can have real discussions about issues facing men and boys, then the need for this kind of provocation will end, at which point the editorial staff of this website may consider removing this article from its archives.

Some years ago, many actually, I was a young buck full of self-confidence and ironically less affected by PC than I probably am even now, long after swallowing the red pill.

I was dating a rather fetching young woman. We had been out three times and though there was clearly sexual energy, nothing more than a couple of brief kisses had transpired between us.

We were in her kitchen getting some stuff out to make a sandwich and she was talking to me about the things that interested her in a man. She uttered some babble about liking men who were in touch with a “woman’s soul,” or some other complete inanity. It was the cosmic feminine goop-speak of the times, predating the more hostile, feminist induced, “I don’t need a man,” drivel that would become so popularized a few years later. It was bullshit, of course, but tolerable bullshit, so I didn’t bolt.

My response, however, was not quite what she was expecting at the moment.

I turned and pushed her into the refrigerator and pinned her against it. I was already hard (hey, I was 21) and pushed my erection into her thigh. I ran my hand up inside her sweater and over her breasts and I leaned in to whisper in her ear, “I know what you fucking want.”

She melted….and then proceeded to fuck my brains out for the next two days. Needless to say, for those 48 hours, I didn’t hear one word of crap about her “woman’s soul.”

Must be hard to wax esoteric and scream “OH…GOD…YES…FUCK…MEEEEEEEE!” at the same time.

It really is funny. I already knew at 21 what feminists have been trying desperately to convince the world isn’t true. Women, most all of them, want to be sexually dominated.

End of fucking story, everything else is bullshit.

Any moron with the sixth grade reading skills required for a romance novel can tell you this. I’d wager good money there is not a single one of those books that doesn’t have at least one scene with a woman saying “no” ten times, just before opening up like a spring flower and getting stuffed with enough cock to make Ron Jeremy blush.

In romance novels, that is the preamble to “happily ever after.” Being taken, with some amount of force or another, is the main draw to this genre of writing. Hell, I don’t even really call them Romance Novels. I call them “Bosom Heavers.”

Watch a woman read one and you will see why. By the time she gets halfway through one of those “no doesn’t mean jack shit,” scenes, her tits will look like they have been outfitted with low-rider hydraulics, lifting and dropping sharply with each powerful thrust she is imagining in her mind.

Even a slight peek outside the world of SlutWalks and “no means no,” drivel from the generally unfuckable inhabitants of the feminist zeitgeist reveals that no matter how much social reengineering is attempted on the masses, the ‘gina still tingles at the idea of being taken.

Time Magazine reports it, Masters and Johnson confirm it, even web sites like Healthyplace.com, which calls itself America’s Mental Health Channel, adds the voice of women to the mix with the same results.

And of course when feminists stumble on the reality of it, they are really, really offended. But there is no shock there. Feminists have been highly offended by the realities of human nature since the first time Abigail Adams asked John to tie her to the bed frame and force a cod piece up her poop chute.

But that offense is, as with most of feminism’s all too numerous offenses, just more of the obsession. Rape culture, rape advocacy, rape awareness, date rape, birth rape, marital rape, etc., etc.. Most of these things are real problems, but all of them are treated hysterically and with compulsive overkill, especially given the fact that, like it or not, there are many other more serious problems in the world.

Isn’t it more than just a little fascinating that underneath all this hoopla about rape is a whole lot of women who, when thinking about some guy pinning them down in a kitchen and forcing a hand up their blouse, generally tend to do so with their own hand or a vibrator between their legs? You don’t have to like it to know its true.

And isn’t it also interesting that the most rape obsessive morons on the planet also happen to be some of the ugliest morons on the planet?

Consider this. If rape awareness was a religion, Andrea Dworkin was The Fucking Pope. The 300+ lb. basilisk of man-hate had a face big enough and pockmarked enough to be used to fake a lunar landing. Her body was roughly the size and shape of a small sperm whale.

And she thought of little else in her life other than rape. The subject drove almost everything she said and did.

She even claimed to have been drugged and raped in 1999 in Paris, an accusation that was never proven and which came under a great deal of scrutiny, apparently for damned good reason.

C’mon people, Dworkin’s problem wasn’t that she was raped. Her problem, and I mean all along, was that she wasn’t.

Did I say she was the Pope of Rape Awareness? Let me take that back. She wasn’t the Pope, she was the Jimmy Swaggert. Like a corrupt televangelist who only shuts up about sexual purity and morality long enough to secure the services of a five dollar hooker, Dworkin was the poster child for “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”

Or, in other words, she was obsessed with rape, quite possibly even creating the illusion it happened to her, precisely because her worth on the sexual market was measured in pesos.

Dworkin wanted to be raped, which in her mind meant being sexually desired, but didn’t have the goods to make that happen so she made a career of hating both the source of her rejection, men, and the source of her competition, attractive women.

Go figure, her other pet peeve was porn.

It is much the same with the SlutWalks, those rapidly growing celebrations of stupidity and cellulite taking over the western landscape. Most of the women there may be dancing Dworkin, but money is on the idea that when not participating in the SlutWalks these girls are desperately trying to fuck their way into feeling attractive.

Attractive enough that a man would lose control of himself to have his way with them.

There are some good looking women at the SlutWalks. It is an environment where even mediocre looking women, by comparison, can look good enough to be raped. And it’s a place where really attractive women can come, half clothed, and feed their narcissistic appetite for attention on a world-wide scale.

I’m just waiting for Playboy to make a call out to do a photo spread on “Girls of the SlutWalks,” and if they do, the pretty ones will line up for their shot at being objectified.

Hear me on that one, Playboy? You can send me a check for the idea.

Now, where it concerns these good looking women, it is indeed a small number of them, but resentments between them and the fugly majority of SlutWalkers have already been witnessed and documented.

One thing’s for sure, whether a SlutWalker is really attractive, or a nauseatingly grotesque fat-body filling a tube of spandex like John the Wad filled a condom, they both get the tingle thinking about being taken.

That is why they are there. It is just the way things are. And their presence at these events is much more proof of that than evidence against it.

The real lesson here is simple. The concept of rape has a lot of utility for women. One, it feeds their narcissistic need to feel irresistible. Two, if feeds their narcissistic need to feel irresistible. That level of irresistibility is the pinnacle of a woman’s sexual viability and worth. And for a whole lot of women, sexual worth is the only self-worth they know.

It is an unconscious reality; an unspoken truth sequestered away from self-knowledge and buried beneath a mountain of social taboo and PC.

Does this mean that women, even women like Andrea Dworkin, really want to be physically raped, forced against their will to submit to sex they do not want? No. Of course not. If you think you spotted that sentiment in this article, then you probably don’t understand very much about sex. Sexual interactions are nuanced and almost never take the form of explicit verbal agreements. Besides, I would not even do what I did as a young man in this day and age. Back then, a simple no would have ended that interlude. Today it could easily mean handcuffs and a long stretch in prison.

While times have changed, people haven’t. Women’s desire for domination is real.  It is not buried so far down, or placed so far out of reach that it can’t moisten a vagina…at the mere thought of it.

Before you let your average academician, or other generic ideologue lecture you about sex, rape, consent or any aspect of human sexuality, you might want to consider that it is not very likely to help. If we want to understand something like rape, we won’t get there without a lot more thoughtful understanding of sex itself.

Right now, we are going in the wrong direction.

About Paul Elam

Paul Elam is the founder and publisher of A Voice for Men, the founder of A Voice for Men Radio, the AVfM YouTube Channel, and appears weekly on AVFM Intelligence Report, Going Mental with Dr. Tara Palmatier and monthly on MANstream Media with Warren Farrell and Tom Golden.

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  • Phil

    Andrea Dworkin weighed 300+ pounds? Paul, don’t you think you’re being a little too generous?

    • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

      “+” covers a lot of territory.

      • Promoman

        Damn. Now that’s a plumper.

      • Eff’d Off

        Right.

        I’m posting waaay up here because I’m a narco cuntok.

        Paul, when I read this this creepy image popped the fuck up.
        I mean I love it when stuff fucks up.

        Here’s to you and have a hoot on me will ya tough guy.

        [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Slutroll1.jpg[/img]

        • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

          You never fail to make me laugh! That was great. Hey, why don’t you take some of these individual frames you put in the comments here and make pages of 4 or 6 at a time out of them so I can include them into your archives.

          • Eff’d Off

            Ok Mr Paul I tell you this right up. – I have been thinking of late of doing a DR. F “clip show”. You know, chucking a few together and posting it as an eight panel centre-fold (phwooar!).

            The only thing that held me back was thinking that it might come across as narcissistic for reals, you know ?

            Your call, what suits for you:

            1/ Sending you some and you doing four together like you said, or…
            2/ Doing the Dr F. Narco eight panel wonder spread ?

            P.S.
            I wait here with my unfurled clanger as it taps the F5 key.

          • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

            What suits me is you doing this the way you think is best. That is my honest answer. I just don’t want these good panels to get lost in the comments.

          • Eff’d Off

            Ta Paul bloke, you say kind stuff. :)

            I’ll send you a bunch today.

            Remember, when you get them you just do that thing you do… you know… when you piss off all them femmo tetra-pods.

            This will be interesting. I look forwards to seeing what will happen here, it’s kinda like my own Christmas and birthday and Easter and a day off kinda all in one and all for meeeeee.

            P.S.
            Do you have any idea how terrific that word sounds when only I am allowed to say it?

      • Brendan

        A lot of territory indeed. Dworkin made the legendary Soviet weightlifter Vasily Alexeev look reed-thin.

  • B.R. Merrick

    I am reminded of Little Big Man, a funny, touching, and sad movie starring a young Dustin Hoffman, in which he is, for a time, companion to an Annie Oakley type who was obsessed with the “fear” of being raped if they were ever captured by the Indians. Lo and behold, they’re captured by the Indians, and guess who had a sour face when she wasn’t “raped” (since she looked so much like a guy)?

    • Promoman

      Yeah, the women that have faces that could make a strap-on soft are also the ones who claim to fear the rape ghost but would be overcharging even if they gave up the ass for free.

      • Eff’d Off

        “a strap-on soft”… Did you just make that up ?

        That is about as close to brilliant as one can go.
        I’m sorry, but that is insanely funny. :)

        • Promoman

          Idle time & a devilish mind makes a perfect storm for talking shit.

    • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

      A great movie. One brutal truth after another, with no feelings spared.

    • elderswam

      or there is the simpsons episode when amrge is kidnapped by the hells angels and upset when she is not taken advantage of and is told they don’t find her attractive lol.

  • Simon

    Hit the nail on the head. Most of these women are so against rape because they have no chance of being raped because they have no sexual market value.

    Reminds me of this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxTzTXOtYho

    There was a ms university beauty pagent… the ‘feminist society’ objected (look how ugly the girl representing that society is).

    If those feminists were attractive they would have been the first girls to enter the contest.

    Since they are ugly they oppose it vehemently and call it misogynistic and ‘male oppression.’

    -Simon

  • http://jmnzz.wordpress.com jmnzz

    I met Ron Jeremy once when I worked security at a casino. Nice guy. Right before I met him I ran into this group of men and women. I assume none of the were dating considering what happened next. All of these women were attractive and one of them decided to bend over and shake her ass in front of me. She was wearing a very short dress so I got a full view, twisted panties and everything.

    Funniest thing about that moment was one of the guys there laughed and said “you got a fine ass bitch showing off her pussy in front of you, what are you gonna do?” and the other women in the group said similar things, egging me on. Telling me to smack their friend’s ass and feel her up.

    I shrugged and said I would fuck her right there if I didn’t need the money from my job. Casinos have cameras.

    The other women laughed and crowded around me and the one that had bent over stepped over to me and started rubbing her ass against my crotch.

    So in short yeah women do ask for sex with more than their voices.

    By the way did I mention I met Ron Jeremy? 10 points for me.

    • http://www.mensrightsboard.blogspot.com/ MasculistMan

      Did you wear a uniform or were you plainclothes?

      • http://jmnzz.wordpress.com jmnzz

        I wore a suit. With a radio and a two wire like the secret service.

    • Jack Mehoffer

      Great story! I too met Ron Jeremy AND Lemmy at the Rainbow Room about 13 years ago. They were drinking Bloody Mary’s and shooting the shit in the early afternoon. Lemmy offered me a foil-wrapped chicken sandwich from his jacket pocket. I declined.
      Nice guys.

      • Jim L

        Ron Jeremy is well known for not drinking alcohol…

  • thehermit

    Whe i was about 20,with my first gf, she told me a story about goin home through downtown on some dark streets where she was nearly raped. I’ve always had the ability to look behind people’s words, so became interested exatly WHY she told me that story, so looked into her eyes, and guess what i’ve seen: not fear, but pride.

    Yes, she was fuckin’ proud thad she was desirable enough for a man thinking about raping her… But that was not clear that time, just could not put together the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle.

    My only ecxcuse that i was too young to understand womens’ way of thinking.

  • Bizzman662

    Sales of bodice-ripping e-books soar as women use digital readers to hide their romantic novels

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1343270/Amazon-Kindle-Sales-bodice-ripping-e-books-soar.html#ixzz1Q2HsazVP

    Yeah,

    That’s not saying anything or anything.

    THIS JUST IN BLUE PILL EATERS:

    MOST WOMEN LIKE JOHNNY BAD ASS TO STUFF HER HOLE FULL OF HIS LITTLE JOHN WHILE SHE KEEPS TELLING YOU SHE LIKES “NICE GUYS” AND WANTS TO BE TREATED LIKE A “PRINCESS”………..

    TAKE THE RED PILL AND NEXT TIME YOU HEAR “NICE GUY” OR “PRINCESS” OR “TIRED OF THE GAMES”……..YOU MIGHT KNOW WHAT SHE REEEAAAAALLLLYYYY MEANS.

    • AntZ

      Quote from the story:

      “According to Nielsen BookScan, just two per cent of all printed books sold in 2009 were romantic novels, compared with 14 per cent of all e-books sold.”

      Data. Fact. No other way to interpret this: women like trashy romance, but don’t want anyone to know they like it.

      Sounds like fertile territory for “slut walks.” Genius, really. Get thousands of women to indulge in their trashy fantasies, while pretending to protest for something legitimate.

  • http://evilpenis.blogspot.com Evil Penis

    I know you have heard this kind of stuff before Paul, but I really wish you would stop writing using profanities to make your point. I absolutely love all of the work you do, and I will always respect you for everything you have done, so please don’t take this the wrong way, but I think articles like this damage your credibility.

    You know how blue pill types always try to paint you as some kind of extremist, but that really isn’t the case. Do you consider yourself and WF Price extremists? I certainly don’t. Swearing basically adds more weaponry to the arsenal of those opposing you and men’s rights. Kimmel and the Good Manginas painted you as a loony, and they keep trying. Swearing puts people off in the mainstream, you know it does. Do you want men’s rights to go mainstream or not? A lot of people are relying on you to get it there.

    You get much more mainstream coverage than the vast majority of guys and blogs, how many times (a la Lion Goodman) has someone appropriated you as the ‘leader of the MRM’?

    I honestly think that you are getting incredibly close to getting some REAL attention. Being well mannered will help.

    If they want an extremist then point them at me, it certainly isn’t you… Dont give them any excuse to say it is.

    • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

      OK, I promise. I will never swear again.

      • scatmaster

        Fucking A, oops I am Canadian, Fuckin Eh!!!

      • http://avoiceformen.com Manuel Fucking Dexter

        Stephen Fry on swearing : http://youtu.be/HSQmk6gGTcE

        • scatmaster

          LOL!!!!

      • http://mens-rights.blogspot.com/ Snark

        LOL!

      • AntZ

        Paul never called himself a leader, and I don’t think he sees himself that way. The problem is Paul, want it or not, you ARE becoming not just a leader, but THE leader.

        I don’t know if EvilPenis is right or wrong. However, clearly it is time to think STRATEGICALLY instead of TACTICALLY has arrived. A short term tactical victory is not worth the cost of long term strategic weakness.

        Having said that, many prominent leaders in other movements have used profanity in a way that does not weaken them in the long term. I doubt that there is a strategic argument against “The family courts have got to GO and I mean right fucking now!” Sure, there is a line somewhere. One of the reasons Paul is a leader is because he has an intuitive sense of where that line is.

    • Good Penis

      Evil Penis, not for nothing but your user name is Evil Penis. lol.

      • Better Penis

        I win!

        • Biggest wee-wee of them all(A.k.a. Eff’d Off)

          Nope.

          Sorry mate, I wouldn’t be caught dead without something that needed trainer wheels in front of it.

          Got you beat.

    • Bizzman662

      [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/slutwalk.jpg[/img]

      • scatmaster

        My custard chucker just receded into my butt crack looking at that.
        If she really was raped the guy must have been a cousin of Blind Melon Chittlin.

      • typhonblue

        Jeezus.

        I can say, definitively, if I was raped(again) I would burn the outfit, not parade around in it like a badge of honor.

      • keyster

        There’s a local organization of fema-lesbos that provides the signage for women to select from at the initial meet up. They make the signs look homemade and the messaging/look is similar in every city, to make it look spontaneous and “grassroots”.

        In Seattle a woman was carrying that same sign wearing jeans.

        • http://www.falserapesoceity.blogspot.com E. Steven Berkimer

          keyster,

          That’s exactly the way it was here in Chicago as well. The first group there had about 100 signs that they just handed out as people showed up. Many did bring their own signs, but the vast majority were prepared well ahead of time.

          • keyster

            I’ll be attending SlutWalk Denver to film the entire experience. I’ve got plans to make a little mini-documentary out of it for AVfM/TV. It will actually be a documentary about the making of a mockumentary, originally meant to be a documentary. Think Christopher Guest in a house of mirrors.

      • Promoman

        Assuming her sign is true, there’s a rapist who’s now asexual. She isn’t fit to rape with a stolen dick….

      • elderswam

        why is she trying not to smile?

      • criolle johnny

        She STILL has a gleam in her eye and cannot get the smile off of her face!

        • Whatever.

          This comment (and all the rest of those about this photo) is so disgusting that I barely know what to say.

          Nope, there’s no way that she’s proud of herself for participating in Slutwalk, trying to make a difference. There’s no way that she was there with her friends, and having a good time. Or just enjoying the festivity around the event. Nope, no way whatsoever. /sarcam.

          Funny, people around here seem to love minimizing the after effects of rape, essentially a big, “fuck you, get over it,” to survivors. But when a woman who has been raped has the audacity to look happy, she must’ve liked it? Way to define a woman by her rape, assholes.

          Seems like some people here still believe in a “fate worse than death,” for all you protest otherwise.

    • rebtus

      @ Evil Penis
      If you want Paul Elam to earn respect like Rodney Dangerfield, why did you choose the handle “Evil Penis”?

    • http://www.mensrightsboard.blogspot.com/ MasculistMan

      Dude,did your girlfriend make you write that?

      How the fuck can we get rid of the profanity? Shit,let me think about. Can’t come up with anything,ain’t that a cunt? I could come up with some asswipe shit but that won’t do. I can’t think of anything,fuck that shit.

      • http://evilpenis.blogspot.com Evil Penis

        @Paul

        You could’ve said ‘I swear, I won’t swear again’ 

        @good penis

        I am honoured at the way you used my name ironically, it makes me feel… important 

        @rebtus

        What is my name in any way related to Paul or what respect he gets?

        @Masculistman

        Who said ‘we’ or any other plural pronoun? I said Paul, just Paul.

        Paul is a great writer, with a great message.
        I’m very aware that I might well alienate many of you by being critical in this way. That is fine with me. I am not the only person who thinks this way. There have been many comments saying similar things on this website and on the radio show.

        Let me point you to a comment posted by Pierce at FRS: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8888796307888349295&postID=24949176630767651
        ‘Excuse me, Mr./Ms. CrackAddict, I am not your “dude.” That is not a term one hears among professional persons doing serious work, sir/madam. The only time it was uttered to any effect was when Lee Marvin used the term in reference to James Stewart in “Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.” Before Wayne killed Valance, for Stewart.’

        Could not the same be applied to swearwords? Is what Paul doing serious work or not?

        Ask yourselves this…
        Is Paul Elam an extremist?
        Is he one of the most prominent men’s rights advocates?
        Would it be better for men if Paul broke into the mainstream?
        Is he more likely to do that while a) Telling people how Vladek Filler had his life destroyed by ideologues, or b) when he is telling traditional women to ‘go and fuck themselves’?
        Do/have people tried to characterise Paul as some kind of extremist?
        Is this a good thing, when in fact he is fighting for equal rights under the law and revealing how men have had their lives ruined, and the other end of the spectrum is complaining about the ‘objective gaze’?

        Let other people do the swearing and get the misogynist label. We need to get Paul into the mainstream so people listen. It is a massive burden for him but his good work has put him in that position, he is very important for men right now.

        • rebtus

          @ Evil Penis,
          Would you be as obtuse as no to understan the irony.Practice what you preach. Lecturing Paul Elam for profanities and using a handle that would get you kicked out from Aussie or British place of worship. ( You use Britsh spelling of “honoured).

          • http://evilpenis.blogspot.com Evil Penis

            I am British.

            This is exactly my point. I am not Paul Elam. You say practice what you preach… read my blog there is much worse there. I use profanities, because I am a ‘loony extremist’… compared to Paul anyway. I have a lowly blog that rants and complains. Paul’s website and radio show are at the front line of fighting for men who are having their lives destroyed.
            Let other people (ie: me and/or anyone else with the balls to actually say something really controversial, because Paul’s message IS NOT) be called extremists.

          • sharp

            No, I see what you’re saying (I was Good Penis btw).
            I do like Paul’s not give a fuck attitude in this article, it draws attention and gets people to react the way a more reasoned approach wouldn’t and bore people.

            On the other hand, this type of language and approach may prevent him from ever getting any mainstream attention in the future, if possible.

            Then I think about all the men out there with different approaches:

            – Man burns himself to death to protest the family courts. Nobody cares.
            – Pierce Harlan is tough and no nonsense but professional and respectable. Nobody cares.
            – Glenn Sacks is extremely professional. Nobody cares.
            – Paul Elam varies his approach. Nobody cares.

            When I say “nobody cares”, I’m talking about the mainstream, obviously we care and the overall manosphere cares.

            I don’t know… I really don’t have an answer. I do get what you’re saying though.

        • http://www.mensrightsboard.blogspot.com/ MasculistMan

          I’ve heard the “let’s not be thought of as ‘misogynists'” crowd. They are the Lion Goodman’s of the world. What are we supposed to do when a feminist starts shit with us? Bow down to her? That sounds like what you would propose. I’m not curbing my speech and the faster your type accepts that the better.

          • http://evilpenis.blogspot.com Evil Penis

            If you think I am anything like Lion Goodman you are very very far off the mark… quite apart from the fact that I called him a ‘lying feminist cunt’ on my blog and he duly responded with a typical shaming rant, I do not think men should apologise to women one bit… quite the opposite.

            Again you are using plural pronouns as if I was speaking collectively to a group. I wasn’t. I was speaking to Paul.
            I’m not asking you or anyone else to curb anything, nor do I want men to. Being angry and showing the world JUST how much men are being fucked over is exactly what we need to do. That is EXACTLY what I am doing.

            I started thinking about this idea when I saw a ‘debate’ on youtube about MRAs. Most people seemed to think that MRAs (ie: Paul, he was the only person they referenced as an example of an MRA – he is ‘the leader of the MRM’ after all) are exactly the same as radical feminists. They pointed to an article where Paul swore and were laughing saying ‘haha look, those MRAs are right nutcases, they’re EVEN WORSE than the feminists!

            This made my blood FUCKING BOIL. The message Paul is giving is not a radical message. The message radical feminists are giving is. People will (and do) naturally think that these two are opposites and try to find the middle ground to make things ‘fair’.

            That isn’t fair at all. If people are going to call MRAs extreme then why not actually say something extreme?

            Great article about this: http://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/mens-rights-feminism/radical-masculist-manifesto-on-equal-terms-with-radical-feminists/

        • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

          I appreciate your concerns, but here is the deal, in my admittedly not so humble opinion. The only way to get me into the mainstream is to cause enough of a stir that they come to me, looking to tear me down.

          I am ready for that. These guys, after all, are not that smart.

          But someone else already said what I was going to say next, my friend. The mainstream does not give a fuck about what I have to say because they don’t give a fuck about men and boys.

          Trying to mold myself into “respectability” for people that don’t care about a father who self immolates in front of a courthouse seems a tad bizarre doesn’t it?

          I know I came off a bit flippant with you, so let me explain further. A lot of people support this site with money and time and I want them to understand, too, that every word I post here has intent and is part of a plan, including the language I use.

          You may disagree with this and I appreciate that, but hear me out all the way.

          In order for us to be taken more seriously by the media, even if as a threat, we have to grow.

          In order to grow, we have to appeal not to the media, but to the increasing numbers of disenfranchised men.

          When we appeal to enough of those men, we will scare feminists and their henchmen even more than we already have. Much more so, as a matter of fact.

          We are approaching our first anniversary on July 3rd. By that time I estimate we will have had about 650,000 visits to the site.

          I bet between now and the next July 3rd the number of visits will exceed 1,500.000 (we have some interesting stuff coming up very soon).

          I think by the time we are getting 5,000,000 visits per year (which I think will take less than 5 years) the media and the politicians will be even more compelled to pay attention, AND IT WON’T BE BECAUSE WE USE NICE LANGUAGE.

          Think strategy, friend. And think reality. I am not here to become another Marc Rudov or Glenn Sacks or Warren Farrell, though I respect the hell out of all of them.

          I am here to fuck some shit up, not to play nice or shape myself OR YOU into something the scurrilous bitches and bastards we are fighting will approve of.

          Glenn Sacks does great work, with kind language, on behalf of fathers in this culture. FRA’s get called an “abusers lobby” just the same.

          I don’t want mainstream acceptance, I just want a big stick.

          You know why? Because in this world, a big stick IS mainstream acceptance.

          I appreciate your concerns and respect the way you voiced them but I am still going to ask you to trust me. I think I will accomplish a great deal before this is over if they don’t lock me up or kill me. And I am prepared for either.

          In the worst case scenario, I bet that AVfM will eventually scare enough people that Sacks, et al, will start sounding like people they better listen to.

          So in the end it is not my voice that counts, but yours. I am here to do what I can to make sure they listen to it,

          by any means necessary.

          • Primal

            “by any means necessary” is precisely the feminist credo. It is slowly destroying them. It will destroy you too.

          • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

            There is something you don’t understand. When I use the term “by any means necessary,” it is a given that I am talking about things that have long term efficacy and value.

            For instance, I won’t rely on lies because they ultimately fail the liar, just as they have with feminism.

            I won’t use violence, because they ultimately fail the person employing that violence as we have seen in the ultimate fall of every police state.

            So there is a fundamental (and should be glaring) difference between mine and the feminists credo, which is “by any means necessary, even if it is self imploding.”

            I would not be so quick to chant the, “You’re being just like feminists,” mantra or even some variation of it, regarding AVfM.

            This is a whole different animal.

          • keyster

            Um, yeah, so, hey Paul..um…so…I’m finding your tone to be like just a little bit antagonistic and even threatening at times.

            Perhaps if someone has a problem with your language they might want to volunteer to edit and parse your words down to suit a more mainstream audience…and post your edited writings on their own more “PG-13″ blog.

            A kind of “Menz Rightz for Kidz!” site.

            But then that would require volunteering to actually work for men’s voices to be heard, and work is difficult. So much easier and even fun to sit back criticize and pick at others work.

          • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

            :)

          • Primal

            Sounds like the very kind of humor one finds on feminist blogs. One gang isn’t better than another. We will take down feminists to the extent that we respect male independence, critical thinking and free speech which are qualities that generally DO make our sex speshul.

            As for volunteering, spare me. There are plenty of ways to contribute…and this is one very important way and one which requires hellishly hard work. Simpleminded sarcasm seems easy by comparison.

          • Primal

            I listened to your radio show regarding some future family court judge’s possible immolation. Now I’m no fan of men who wear dresses (thanks to Zubaty) and particularly the totalitarian goons who run our family courts but I become very concerned when I hear immolation as some sort of laughing matter. When you hit mainstream they’re gonna be digging for dirt to try to destroy or silence you.

          • http://evilpenis.blogspot.com Evil Penis

            “I am not here to become another Marc Rudov or Glenn Sacks or Warren Farrell,”

            In my eyes, and those of many other people I’m certain, YOU ARE already in the same bracket as these men. Honestly, the way you talk about them is the same way I think about you.

          • Stu

            And Paul got to that status by being exactly what he is being now. If you ask me, Paul is going to dwarf the other MRAs. Stick around, you watching history get written.

          • http://www.coldinkstainedhands.wordpress.com Patrice Stanton

            I have read this far in the comments and can resist no longer…I’ve been quick to condemn ‘language’ but no more. This ought to be a place where all y’all (men) speak in anyway, shape or fashion you care to. Hell, the Evil being perpetrated by my ‘kind’ against ‘your kind’ deserves more than mere ‘foul language’.

            I so agree with Paul: the mainstream (‘lamestream’) media won’t respect him either way. They will edit/twist/even lie about him if he chooses to grant them interviews in the future. I’m such a glass-way-past-half-empty that absent some secret mass mind-wiping of feminist-proPIGanda I predict media-types Paul will eventually deal with will do whatever it takes to keep him in ‘his place’ which is ‘illegitimized’.

            For what it’s worth, I laughed out loud several times – ‘despite’ the (for me) harsh ‘language’. Especially at the Dworkin=Pope. After some comment about her in an earlier AVfM article or comment I looked her up on Wikipedia: Yikes! She really was (sorry, Shamu, et al) a whale.

    • codebuster

      The purpose of swearing is to get in someone’s face to declare war… as in, “fuck you, prick”. But being forced to type “f**k you, p**k” to bypass the interne’ts spam filters makes swearing a bit lame, doesn’t it… hardly a declaration of war. So if this post does not make it to the forum, I take it Paul’s re-enabled the nasty-word filter, in response to E**l P***s’ gripe.
      :-)

      But seriously, I do wish people would either swear, or not swear at all. Typing “f**k” and its variants is just so lame and p*ss-weak. Paul’s not doing that, he’s getting in people’s faces and he’s declaring war. Which is as it should be, IMHO. While I do also understand the mainstream credibility issue that E**l P***s is addressing, I have no respect for the pc mainstream. A robust, unrestrained “fuck you” is all they deserve.

      • Izzey

        Outstanding!
        I agree, one hundred fucking percent. ;)

        All or nothing.

    • http://deansdale.wordpress.com Deansdale

      “You get much more mainstream coverage than the vast majority of guys and blogs, how many times (a la Lion Goodman) has someone appropriated you as the ‘leader of the MRM’?”
      This is actually a valid point.
      Of course sometimes one MUST swear but it should be used sparingly for greater effect.

  • Bizzman662

    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Feminism.jpg[/img]

  • Jonathan Mann

    As if anyone would rape Dworkin. Based on what she looked like alone, I’d rather eat bird poop scrapings off of the top of my car than have any kind of sex with her. I truly think she would have liked to have been raped, if not because she would have enjoyed it, than because it would have prooven her life long thesis that rape has “nothing to do with physical attractiveness” to have been valid.

  • Jean Valjean

    Why Paul, whatever do you mean no one would ever bang Andrea Dworkin.

    In fact she has had sex and here is the video!

    • Bizzman662

      OMG.

      I just threw up my hot pocket in my mouth a lil.

      • Jean Valjean

        If I knew how to edit a movie I’d download that clip and edit out Eleanore Skeppel and edit in Andrea Dworkin for the full effect.

        Maybe just planting the seed in the minds of other MRA’s will get the job done.

        • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

          Note to self. DO NOT follow Valjean’s links while eating.

          • Izzey

            I fucking hate you for making me watch that, Jean Valjean.
            I worked very late today.

            I came here to read.

            When she sat up and farted, I just fucking fell apart.
            lol lol

    • 4thtroika

      0_o

    • Stu

      How do they get fugly chics like her to do parts like that. What do they say…..”We are looking for a really fat, ugly, disgusting sack of shit…….a woman that would make a man puke at the thought of touching…..a woman that would make the neighbors dog look good….and we thought you would be intersted in the part” LOL

  • !!SPARTA!!

    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/doug1xa5ep8.jpg[/img]

  • !!SPARTA!!

    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/8kUWZ.jpg[/img]

    • http://www.falserapesoceity.blogspot.com E. Steven Berkimer

      He’s going to be very sorry. Looks like they are on a beach. He’s going to have sand in places he REALLY doesn’t want it.

      Is it just me, or does he look like Carrot Top, just not with red hair?

      • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

        He does! lol, a butt nekid evil satanic carrot top.

    • keyster

      They’e mocking what appears to be a mentally challenged homeless man.
      Funny.

      • !!SPARTA!!

        Don’t care. Nope totally don’t care. Funny is funny

  • keyster

    If they’re protesting not being able to wear immodest clothing without being raped, I doubt they’ll reach the target audience; that is the infinitesimally small minority of men who are prone to commit rape or purposefully engage in forced sex with a woman, many of whom are in jail anyway.

    What is it exactly they hope to accomplish?

    What’s the REAL message?
    If women have a chance to publicly display defiance over men, they’ll do it.
    If women have a chance to denegrate male sexuality, while appearing to be the victims of it, they’ll do it.

    Every SlutWalk sends a message loud and clear to all men.
    “You’re evil and we hate you.”

    If you ever wanted to recruit more MRA’s, thank a slut today.

    • Whatever.

      No. Not really, no. Okay, do you really think we’re supposed to assume the target audience of these protests are rapists? If protests stopped rape, don’t you think people would have paraded the fuck out of rapists until they reformed or whatever.

      It’s about taking away stigmatization (or maybe I should say ‘denigration;’ can’t have an MRA post without that) for these so-called sluts. You know, so people will stop playing that tired, “she was asking for it” card.

      As for, “If women have a chance to denegrate male sexuality…” Well… I’m honestly creeped out. You think that male sexuality is /rape/? Sheesh. And you guys say feminists spend their time putting you down. At least feminists think you can control yourselves around scantily-clad women. And if you don’t expect that of yourselves already… I didn’t know my expectations for MRAs (not men in general; I’d like to think most men are smarter than this) could sink any lower.

      Funny thing is, you’d think many guys would be rejoicing over Slutwalks. By taking away the stigma from being a sexual woman, I’d expect many women to have more sex. With men. Possibly with you.

      Or, and I’m trying very hard to look at this from your MRA perspective, women would feel more free to sleep around/be sexual, and would therefore be far less likely to “cry rape,” as you say, out of guilt. (Naturally, I think this last passage is bullshit, but I don’t know what you’ll think.)

      If you ever wanted to recruit more feminists, thank an MRA today.

      • keith

        I don’t think anyone here is interested in recruiting a feminist. Why would anyone here make an effort to recruit narcissistic, intellectually dishonest, ideological attention hoar’s that victimize themselves and blame it on men. There are no pedestals here so your stay is brief anyway. Men don’t seek relationships with sluts the state does.
        Take your genital sewer and your V monologue elsewhere, we don’t need slut predators here. And have a nice day:)

        • Whatever.

          But… You replied to absolutely nothing that I said. All I got from you was a Pavlovian response to the word “feminist.” I know you don’t like ‘em. It should be obvious that I don’t agree. But your critique of my point was rather… lacking, since you addressed little before my final sentence.

          • Xayadvara

            With all due respect, WHO THE MEGAFUCK are you??

            If these Slutwalks are intended to remove stigma, then they are going the wrong way about it and you know why?? Cause they are fucking asking us out to tolerate their naked BS & Irresponsibility.

            Do you know why we sneer?? Because thats fucking immature – as if the responsibility of the person has no voice there at all, AS IF WE HAVE TO TOLERATE ANYTHING ANYONE DOES SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING BELOW THEIR STOMACH – SHOVE THIS THROUGH THAT SKULL OF YOURS

  • Malestrom

    Wow Paul, laying down the cold, hard truth like a barrage from a battery of howitzers with this one.

    Probably one of the best articles you’ve done so far in my opinion.

  • MC

    Girls want to feel irresistible, but not exactly. There are plenty of “nice guys” that she knows want to fuck her. She doesn’t want them though. They don’t understand her sexuality.

    The girl wants you to know that she wants it every bit as much as you do. That’s why when you said “I know what you want” it turned her on so much. You acknowledged her desire for you.

    I don’t feel it’s just narcissism. As a man, you also want a girl to desire you, but in a different way. A girl wants you to tease her, and you want to tease her until she’s clamoring for your cock. Women want to be teased, men want to be desired.

    She doesn’t want to feel like you want it way more then she does. A girl still wants to feel that you’re turned on by her enough to not wait for “consent” and even ignore consent, but you also have to acknowledge that she wants it just as much as you do.

    • keyster

      If feminists controlled the sex act:

      “May I at some point in the very near future begin to insert my erect penis into your vagina?”

      “Yes. I officially grant you my consent to insert your erect penis into my vagina, provided I DO NOT change my mind during the foreplay or female arousal period, at which point I will announce , “NO! I’ve changed my mind and have decided to rescind my previous grant of consent.”

      You will then immediately cease and desist from penile to vaginal penetration of any kind or be subject to accusation of rape along with ensuing criminal and legal proceedings the act entails, poste haste.

      How ROMANTIC!

    • Outraged

      Amen MC. That is why girls get turned off if a guy ASKS: “Can I give you a kiss”. Women just want men to be mind-readers and just plow straight into them. No matter how much Feminism advances, women STILL always want the man to make the first move.

  • keith

    What more can be said?

  • BobbyL

    Andrea Dworkin looked like Leslie West. (Sorry Leslie).

  • Stu

    Hey, summer has started over there. I’m going to beat Eff’d to it and post my work of art.
    [file]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/fundraising.bmp[/file]

    See, even Manblobz agrees

    Send money now

    • Eff’d Off

      @ Stu.

      That is damned funny ! Good one :)

      OK Mr Stu – you tell me please if you know how I can get that second panel as my avatar please. I’ve not been able to work out how to do this and maybe you can shed light on this ?

      P.S.
      Have I indeed created a monster or is art imitating life as we know it ?

  • Renly

    I wonder if rape victims who have had rape fantasies in the past feel as if they may have deserved it or really wanted it. The fantasies and the reality of it actually happening could really mess someone up. Of course, the fantasy is different in that you’re still in control.

    Maybe this happens to some (maybe even a lot of them perhaps?) victims?

  • Renly

    Great post, as well.

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

    I think these slutwalks are great. Not only is it divisive amongst feminists, it also degrades their message to white knights and decreases women’s inflated sexual market value. Pretty women don’t need feminism, but there’s nothing wrong with fatties as long as they’re not bitches.

    • 4thtroika

      True. I’ve known lots of women that were a little on the heavy side but were nice to people and fun to be around. That’s half the battle right there.

    • keyster

      That’s what they’re so oblivious to.
      It has less to do with your appearance than with your personality.

      Acting out the defiant, recalcitrant, ballbusting shrew is man repellant.
      Acting pleasant, cordial and friendly…smiling even, is man attractant.
      A woman with a sweet disposition will never be lonely for male company.

      Women don’t need beauty salons, they need personality make-overs.
      Stop being so mad at men! (and doing arcane things like SlutWalks)
      Start being mad at feminists!

      What do men want to hear?
      “I hate feminists, I actually like men.”
      I had a woman say that to me once and I was left speechless, or breathless.

      • Malestrom

        You don’t actually believe any of that do you? It is ALL to do with appearance. Whether the men a woman wants to be fucked by will be interested in fucking her is essentially 100% determined by her appearance. Sure, a nice personality might get her some ”male company” (ie, the platonic friendship of low to mid level men) but unless she is hot it isnt going to get an alpha male’s dick into her pussy, which is what she wants more than anything else in the entire world.

  • andybob

    To swear or not to swear. This dilemna has cropped up a few times and there are reasonable arguments for and against. One consideration is cultural. The Brits are quite relaxed about swearing. As for us Aussies, well, we just don’t know any better. So, swearing just doesn’t have that much impact and is usually overlooked. This doesn’t seem to be the case in the USA where cursing is sometimes taken as a sign of ungodliness. Horrors!

    Ultimately, I think Mr Elam is correct in suggesting that a more in-your-face approach will attract attention from the disenfranchised man-in-the-street. It’s a welcome relief from a PC-infested world that offers little but constraints and obligations. Why must the MRM act like an obedient housetrained puppy when it should be pissing all over the carpets – “fucking their shit up” as it were?

    When feminists schoolmarmishly tsk tsk, then you know you’re doing something right. When you piss them off into the bargain, then you have really done well. Remember the radical versus the earnest feminist working hand-in hand to shit-stir with one hand, and placate with the other? The MRM must have a similar unapologetic core driving it forward while others do the PR gladhanding to quiet the horses. Edgy and slightly rabid can work in our favour if done smartly. I think Mr Elam’s has demonstarted that he has these smarts in spades. Keep doing what you’re doing.

  • http://human-stupidity.com Human-Stupidity.com

    Great article!

    There is a real problem: how to know when NO really means NO

    I think most women know how to make themselves clear. “Stop, damn! I am serious. No more BS”. But the ambiguity is better for crying rape the next day.

    I have a suggestion. Let us introduce a safe word. “Andrea Dworkin”

    Whenever a woman says “Andrea Dworkin”, you have to immediately stop any sexual activity. It is recommended to drop the women for good. After hearing this word you probably lose your erection anyway.

    =============

    I am also trying to write in provocative style. Only to be set straight that the provocative stuff is actually fairly reasonable.

    We are all so brainwashed that the obvious truth seems too offensive.

    Weakness is a mighty weapon for fragile feminist crybaby girls: The Sexual Harassment Industry

    • http://www.falserapesociety.blogspot.com E. Steven Berkimer

      Someone mentioning Andrea Dworkin in the middle of sex play is certainly going to get me to stop.

      Talk about an image that kills the sex drive immediately.

      • Eff’d Off

        Please see my above drawing.

  • Aharon

    Great piece.

  • reasonable

    http://reason.com/archives/2011/06/20/rape-factories

    Some new light shed on rape within the prison system. Staff members are more likely to rape than fellow prisoners.

    Feminists continue not to care.

  • keyster

    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/male-attention.jpg[/img]

  • keyster

    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/male-attention-2.jpg[/img]

    Sorry, my previous picture violated the motivational post theme a little.

  • Edmond

    I believe The Conscious Men enjoy rape fantasies as well………..being taken from behind by a burly lumberjack or a bearded biker.
    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/ImaLumberjackandImOK.jpg[/img]

    • elderswami

      ahahahhahahah

  • Johnny

    Here’s the big RAPE scoop. The worst mass rape in human history was orchestrated by Pauline Nyiramasuhuko of Rwanda. Here is the Wikipedia article says of her: “She is accused of having incited troops and militia to rape thousands of women during the Rwandan Genocide of 1994. She was tried for genocide and incitement to rape as part of the “Butare Group” at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) in Arusha, Tanzania. In June 2011, she was convicted of seven charges and was the first woman to be convicted of genocide by the ICTR.”

    Today she was officially convicted by the United Nations Court with having personally orchestrated mass rape of women, and genocide. Check the news…. its out there today.

    Johnny.

  • Nick S

    I have sometimes overheard young women talking on the bus and elsewhere, about (for example) going out to a seedy part of town wearing a skimpy outfit and then noting how “I managed to not get raped!”. They are usually talking to young men.

    It is clear from the way they say it that it is meant as an indirect boast. i.e. they are really saying “I am so gorgeous that men can barely control themselves in my presence”.

  • Nick S

    Nearly all of the inane babble that spews from the mouths of feminists is pure projection. For example, if they complain about how men occupy most of the positions of power in society they are really saying that they are only interested in men who are higher status than themselves, and that men who are marginalized, lower status, homeless etc. are invisible to them.

    If they complain about how men have abused their power or conspired to keep women oppressed they are really talking about how they behave if given a position of power.

    If they are obsessed with rape, it is usually because they have a thing for sexually aggressive men, or they are getting off on the idea that they are really so irresistibly gorgeous that men cannot control themselves around them.

    It is all pure projection of their own character failings onto the evil menz.

  • criolle johnny

    Dworkin’s problem wasn’t being raped. Her problem was never being fucked. She was mad as hell about it.

  • Ken

    You stated:

    “Dworkin wanted to be raped, which in her mind meant being sexually desired, but didn’t have the goods to make that happen so she made a career of hating both the source of her rejection, men, and the source of her competition, attractive women.”

    …..I do not agree with this, I think there is an even larger issue at play….

    Dworkins generation of rad-fems struggled to get the idea of rape culture out into the mainstream. You can bet your life that Dworkin spent a lot of time thinking about rape. This is clearly evident in her writings. Her deviant ideas about rape and victimization served to help with this generations rad-fem infection.

    Women of this generation have been sold a bill of goods by people like Dworkin. Women are literally surrounded from birth with thinking like Dworkins in forms both subtle and blunt.

    The BS rape statistics that we see everyday painting all men as rapists may be easily debunked, however, few bother to look that deeply, they instead just accept the idea of “Rape Culture” and the notion that “All men are rapists”.

    It’s not really even a conscious level thought process anymore for most of this generations women. Girls are taught from grade school on up that men are inferior beasts who are absent of thought beyond rape.

    The indoctrinated girls believe this without question….
    They are constantly in “rape-awareness” mode….

    Then they don’t get raped……

    But…..

    ……they have based so much of their own personage on the idea that they exist as victims in a rape culture that they actually feel invalidated at some level…..

    Don’t misunderstand me. I am not saying that women need to be raped, want to be raped, or would benefit in any way by being raped……

    I am saying that women are indoctrinated with the expectation that they will at some point in their life have to deal with rape at some level, and, whether or not they consciously intend to, they prepare themselves for this.

    This preparation is pretty serious. They are PUMPED to fight back. They carry a lot of anger and fear and they need to release it. So they start looking for new ways to define rape and abuse, and then use feminist reasoning to find a way to manufacture a situation that will allow them to release some of this negativity.

    What I am saying here is that I doubt that Andrea Dworkin actually wanted to be raped, she just could not live with the idea that no one raped her.

    It may seem like a minor distinction but if you think about it you may come to see it as a systemic reaction to indoctrination.

    Its an expectation that is never realized.

    The unconscious thought process would manifest itself quite plainly:

    . o O ( All men are rapists.)
    . o O ( No one has ever tried to rape me.)
    . o O ( Something is wrong with me.)
    . o O ( I hate men for making me feel this way.)
    . o O ( This is a form of male oppression.)
    . o O ( This hurts me.)
    . o O ( This is a form of rape.)
    . o O ( I deserve support.)

    Remember these are not simple thoughts, these are base emotions cultivated through years of conditioning by, and saturation of, feminist ideologies.

    They begin to feel victimized by the fact that they are not victims.

    There is not as much attention or recognition for this type of “pseudo-victim” available, however, their conditioning and indoctrination REQUIRES an outlet……….

    …..so they make one up…..

    In some cases this fabrication may be purely cognitive. This can take many forms. She may redefine a sexual encounter in which a man lavished her with gifts over the course of 5 dates before expressing a desire to become intimate. Later, after using feminist theory to reinvent the experience, she determines it was a planned “rape by mental coercion”…. because the gifts and attention that the man plied her with were nothing more than an attempt to mentally coerce her into sex…..

    This is unlikely to be reported to authorities. Instead it will be talked about with all of her friends and colleagues for weeks. This gives her both a license to express her rage at not having been victimized, and, the attention and support that she craves. Later once the void is filled and the facts are forgotten she will be thought of as a rape victim, and, reinforce the statistics through which she has been conditioned to view the world.

    This validates her need to be recognized as a victim.

    Other times, as you suggest with Dworkin, the manifestation of the need for victimization is less cerebral and more fantastic.

    The woman will not even try to find an actual situation from their life experience to validate their “right to be victimized” and they will simply make something up….

    Here is an example.
    http://journalstar.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/arrest-warrant-issued-for-alleged-hate-crime-victim/article_b6283ddb-cca0-5b98-a8a8-391ba171dc28.html

    I know this comment is becoming an article and I do apologize for being so long winded……

    I think I have expressed what I am trying to say adequately at this point…….

    The feminist ideaologies of “rape-culture” create an expectation of victimization in women. It is so deeply conditioned into the female psyche that if victimization does not occur it creates a void.

    Women like Dworkin are not actually desirous of rape, they just want to fill the void……….

    It sucks……… its going to take generations to undo this kind of damage……… If it can be undone at all.

  • Cake

    http://25.media.tumblr.com/23bb50e4f5f5791e1ae37a81597b461b/tumblr_mhpt9b5pjT1r6k2lwo1_500.jpg

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/47523687fc5f804bb2a0aaed7bf2d480/tumblr_mhpt9b5pjT1r6k2lwo5_1280.jpg

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/1a8ba5ac7b4d7138d2738d532d3a8ba9/tumblr_mhpt9b5pjT1r6k2lwo9_1280.jpg

    I have zero respect for your idea of “critical thinking”. God-damn turn off to anyone reasonable who wants to support the MRA.

    On a side note, I’m all in favor of swearing… just not when it is used to distract from fucking terrible logic.

    • Cake

      I should add that my comment was assuming that you’re trying to make a valid argument rather than start a circle jerk for rape apologists.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      You post pictures to make your point, and you want to criticize my logic?

      LOL, fine. I will suffer through life without your respect.

      • Cake

        Where do you get that pictures are illogical? I posted them because they seemed elementary enough to get the point across to your fallacy-ridden brain. My bad.

  • ivster

    This disgusts me to know that I live amongst such neolithic people with such a narrow view of sexuality and rape. A woman can wear whatever she wants and she isn’t giving consent. No does mean no. If a woman is laying passed out on the floor she is not giving you permission to ravage her. Permission is not the drug slipped into the drink, in fact permission is standing at the door way completely lucid and mutually agreeing and giving consent.

    Rape is not okay. Blaming the victim/survivor is not okay. This entire article and the comments that have been left are not okay.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      I agree. Rape is not OK. Please point me to anyone saying that.

      • Meow

        Alright. In your article, in your own words, YOU’RE SAYING RAPE IS OK. You may have not done it on purpose, however you are saying that women want to be raped to feel “irresistible.” You are telling the men reading this article that rape is ok, women are just to modest, or shy to tell men flat out to “take me now” so instead they play hard to get and its a mans job to know when to act. WHICH IS WRONG. Half of the comments on here are saying, “wow good article, i need to try this sometime” Also no, women dont have to tell a man to kiss her, he can make a move and hope she does back, BUT if a man goes for the move and the girl does not THEN SHE IS NOT GIVING CONSENT, if you kiss a girl and she does not kiss back, SHE IS NOT PLAYING HARD TO GET, SHE WANTS YOU TO BACK OFF, THAT IS NOT CONSENT. Same goes with in bed stuff. Also if a girl does give consent at first but changes her mind, that is when you back off and stop, because if you forced her to keep going or tell her she wont regret it or anything of the sort, you are raping her, even if you have been married to her for 20 years, if you force someone to keep going, that is rape. Rape is forced sex. Forced sex is sex without consent from one of the party. Oh, and f.y.i., Slutwalks are events for rape victims/survivors to come together and show support for one another, to show that they aren’t alone. Women who go to Slutwalks half naked are showing that no matter what someone is wearing they are not asking for rape, it shouldnt even matter what someone was wearing when they were raped, they never gave consent and that is the god damn problem

        • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

          No, wrong. I said that a likely motivator for Andrea Dworkin’s false rape story, as well as her obsession with rape, was that she had no sexual capital and resented it. And it is quite plausible.

          The rest of your little lecture is superfluous.

          Try again, with a brain.

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            What I hear is that a morally repugnant bigot likely had sexual motivations for objectifying an entire gender in her own rape fantasy.

            To me that seems sort of a “duh”. But apparently it’s difficult for others to comprehend that bigots can have sexual reasons for spewing rape panic about a group of people.

            After all the KKK lived in perpetual fascinated fear of black penises invading white women’s delicate parts. They often concocted elaborate fantasies around this fear. And realities! No doubt there wasn’t just one southern damsel who indulged in some jungle love and then screamed rape to complete her fantasy.

            If Andrea specified “black men” when she spewed her filth about rape, would people have seen it for what it is? A bigot sexually objectifying a group of people as “brutal sexual savages” because of her own twisted view of sex, sexual desire and her own latent desire to be ravished by the “black ape”?

          • Cake

            The problem isn’t someone explicitly saying rape is okay. However saying that anyone is asking for it is kind of a huge problem. A vast majority of guys are not rapists by any means, regardless odds are a couple of them are going to find this page and read comments like-

            “I truly think she would have liked to have been raped” -Jonathan Mann

            “she was fuckin’ proud thad she was desirable enough for a man thinking about raping her” -thehermit

            “guess who had a sour face when she wasn’t “raped”” B.R. Merrick

            You’re bad enough at logic yourself. Do you expect a rapist or hardcore misogynist to read your article and understand the inconvenient distinction between being sexually dominant and committing rape (that was left COMPLETELY implied btw)? It wasn’t until ivster’s comment that anyone said anything really negative about rape itself.

            I know only small group of wackos think like this, and I know you don’t want those few bad eggs to ruin this cutesy little safe zone for men to bash fugly women. At the same time I see zero difference between the strawman arguments you make about ALL feminists and the ones they make against you because it’s all for the same exact reason; letting the few crazies validate their twisted views and ruin the entire movement. You guys can parade around saying “we have big penisez so we’re like a different aminal. we’re totally edgy and not liek the evil feminists”, but who’s really going to take you seriously? The only motive I can find for this article to start a circle jerk for your supportive readers. Honestly best of luck with this calculated revolution. X’D

            I think the cutest part is how you try to sound super smart and critical of others after failing at the most basic logical fallacies.

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            @ Cake

            Let’s imagine this article was, instead, an examination of how the KKK(including female member’s) elaborate and obsessive fantasies about hordes of black men in the night preying on white women might indicate a latent desire to either be ravaged by savage, horrifying black men(white racist women) or cuckolded by savage, horrifying black men (white racist men–hell they were probably fantasizing about some rough trade too.)

            And you came along and “tut-tutted” about how the real problem isn’t the sexual objectification and dehumanization of an entire group down to some sort of savage rape-beasts, the REAL problem is that some black men might get the idea that white women(or men) want to be raped.

            Because, of course… what? There is one black man somewhere who was just holding back his urges to rape white women and now he believes he gets to let fly?

            “Do you expect a rapist or hardcore misogynist to read your article and understand the inconvenient distinction between being sexually dominant and committing rape (that was left COMPLETELY implied btw)? ”

            You realize that a social movement which is trying to make rape out to be some sort of desirable thing that all men secretly want to do is more likely to “sell” men on rape (if it’s possible to sell anyone on rape) than an article saying “women have rape fantasies?”

            Nobody but seriously damaged individuals want to rape. And they rape to act out that damage, maybe to normalize it because they’ve never received the right kind of intervention.

            Saying that a blog post pointing out women’s rape fantasies will make men rape is bigoted nonsense that takes away from the truth.

            Rape causes rape. You want to end rape? Then you have to acknowledge _every_ rape victim, no exceptions and no hierarchies of worthiness.

            In fact I think the sexual violation here is the expectation from women that men engage in this kind of behaviour _at all_. Its degrading to men to be expected to offer up their desire with none offered in return. It’s a stupid game and psychologically healthy men only play, as far as I can tell, because they have no choice.

            It’s this or not be touched(a human need that we go insane without access too.)

            So your assumption that men even want to be sexually aggressive is more dehumanization of men’s actual experiences.

          • Cake

            @Typhonblue

            Are you saying that men today are sexually objectified and dehumanized? That they’re exploited today on a level remotely comparable to what blacks were facing and that this is a much bigger issue than what rape victims (of all genders I might add) must deal with?

            Let’s try one more time with our analogies.

            I must also point out that it is the rape apologists who say that men can’t control themselves. You’re preaching to choir when you say men shouldn’t be viewed as mindless sexual predators- the few who do commit such acts should be fully responsible for their crimes.

            “So your assumption that men even want to be sexually aggressive is more dehumanization of men’s actual experiences.”

            Are you saying that male rapists don’t exist at all? I’ve said multiple times that a large majority of men AREN’T rapists, but apparently you have trouble reading.

            “You realize that a social movement which is trying to make rape out to be some sort of desirable thing that all men secretly want to do is more likely to “sell” men on rape (if it’s possible to sell anyone on rape) than an article saying “women have rape fantasies?””

            I never said I supported this particular social movement. I’m saying these arguments this article made against it are stupid, and counter productive.

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            “Are you saying that men today are sexually objectified and dehumanized?”

            Yes.

            “That they’re exploited today on a level remotely comparable to what blacks were facing and that this is a much bigger issue than what rape victims (of all genders I might add) must deal with?”

            You know that there are black men right?

            And, yes, I do think the sexual demonization of men by bigots like Andrea Dworkin is important to address. It contributes to men _being_ raped. In fact it also contributes to women being raped, but that’s besides the point.

            “I must also point out that it is the rape apologists who say that men can’t control themselves.”

            And no one is saying that here except Andrea.

            Why are you protesting an article about a rape apologist who sexually demonized a group of people because the article suggests she did so to objectify them as part of her own twisted fantasies?

            “Are you saying that male rapists don’t exist at all? I’ve said multiple times that a large majority of men AREN’T rapists, but apparently you have trouble reading.”

            I’m saying that male rapists are sexually deviant and are so due to psychological damage. Saying that normal men want to be sexually aggressive and aren’t obligated to be so is demonizing to them it also erases the majority of their experience because most men appear to prefer the _sexually submissive roles_ or _sexually desired role_.

            Female rape fantasies are thus about extracting as much desire from a man as possible while giving as little as possible. They are innately degrading to the male non-participant, who didn’t chose to be part of the fantasy.

            And this shit is being pumped out _everywhere_. Everywhere you turn you see feminist poster campaigns trying to tie maleness with rape and sexual aggression. Casting the male viewer in the role of rapist and the female viewer in the (apparently thrilling to many) role of rape victim(free of charge!)

            It’d be like a poster campaign on college campuses with a play boy bunny with her ass in the air saying “this is what you really are, ladies.”

            Except that we somehow believe the grinning frat boys when they say “no this is an awareness campaign, it’s not about our sexual fantasies.”

          • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

            @ Cake

            “..understand the inconvenient distinction between being sexually dominant and committing rape..”

            ahhh, now you’re on to something, smarty pants …

          • Meow

            Well for one, please tell me where you got the idea that Andrea Dworkin’s rape was a false story. (No seriously please give sources.) Just because she was fat? If that is the only reason then you are saying that she should be happy that someone would rape her, which is disturbing and wrong and i hope i am wrong on every account. If you were raped by a woman would you not ever shut up about it? Would you just let it go? No, probably not, it would haunt you forever, and you would always suffer from it, especially if no justice was brought to you from the law. If you were raped you would be obsessed with just like she was– you would want to rise awareness for rape as well as she did. The fact that you’re saying she became obsessed with rape because of her sexual fantasies is stupid. Just because there wasnt enough evidence that doesnt mean it didnt actually happen, that doesnt mean she lied about it for attention and its stupid of you to assume that.

        • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

          @ Meow

          ” YOU’RE SAYING RAPE IS OK. You may have not done it on purpose, however you are saying that women want to be raped to feel “irresistible.” You are telling the men reading this article that rape is ok.”

          Your entire argument rests on the idea that men are waiting to get permission to rape.

          That men will rape simply because they’re told women have rape fantasies.

          Do you also believe black people steal compulsively whenever they see an unguarded purse?

          Do you think men are human beings at all?

          • Meow

            No, im not saying men are waiting to get permission to rape, im saying its important that ANYONE waits for permission from another to do something to them, otherwise it is forced and that is the horrible part. I never even said women have rape fantasies, yes women do like to be kinky and have rough sex, BUT THAT IS NOT RAPE.

            Also why do you assume it has to be a black person? An Asian, white, black, Indian, anyone of any race or gender could steal an unguarded purse, it all depends on that persons personalty & what they have done in the past.

            Yes i think that men are human beings where did that even come from? I am a feminists because i believe that women should have the same rights as men– meaning i wish we could all live in a happy utopia of equality, but we will never be able to because of women who think men are all rapists and because of men who think feminists are disgusting.

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            “im not saying men are waiting to get permission to rape”

            This is what you said:

            “You are telling the men reading this article that rape is ok.”

            So? First of all he’s not saying rape is “okay”, he’s saying rape fantasies _exist_.

            Your condemnation of this article rests on the idea that telling men that some women fantasize about rape will make men rape because they’ve been told it’s “okay”.

            No. They won’t.

            “because of men who think feminists are disgusting.”

            Feminism is an ideology. I find the ideology of feminism–that men oppress women–to be odious. Finding the ideology odious is entirely within my right to do.

        • Bombay

          I always thought that people who are half naked in public are exhibitionists.

          Noun 1. exhibitionist – someone with a compulsive desire to expose the genitals
          flasher
          compulsive – a person with a compulsive disposition; someone who feels compelled to do certain things
          streaker – someone who takes off all their clothes and runs naked through a public place
          2. exhibitionist – someone who deliberately behaves in such a way as to attract attentionexhibitionist – someone who deliberately behaves in such a way as to attract attention
          show-off
          egoist, egotist, swellhead – a conceited and self-centered person
          grandstander – someone who performs with an eye to the applause from spectators in the grandstand
          hot dog, hotdog – someone who performs dangerous stunts to attract attention to himself
          poser, poseur – a person who habitually pretends to be something she is not.

          Yup. Slut walks do fit the definition.

          • Meow

            Oh yes, that may be true, but just because someone is wearing something that shows off a lot of skin that doesnt mean you have permission to do anything to them, and they’re wearing those things during Slutwalks to show that, not for the “attention” they want awareness.

          • Bombay

            @Meow

            LOL. Nice little scenario you got going in your mind.

            “you have permission to do anything to them”
            “not for the “attention” they want awareness”

            Who wants to touch them? Please cover up gross half naked women.

            When I was at my son’s high school I saw all these slut walkers – yes it is an everyday dress for many girls there. I asked my son about them and he had the same opinion. He was truly grossed out every day by these sluts. LOL. What you want people to think and reality can be two different things.

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            “Oh yes, that may be true, but just because someone is wearing something that shows off a lot of skin that doesnt mean you have permission to do anything to them, and they’re wearing those things during Slutwalks to show that, not for the “attention” they want awareness.”

            Why are you sexualizing Bombay? Did he indicate he was, in any way, interested in being sexualized by you?

            And in such a demeaning way. You’re casting him in your rape fantasy as a rapist and then lecturing him about not raping you.

            It’s like rapeception in here.

          • Bombay

            Yeah, its like men with speedos marching down the street as a message not to touch them. Think about that. How conceited can a person get?

          • Meow

            @Bombay
            Im not talking about teenagers, I know they wear clothes to reveling sometimes, trust me im still in high school, but i am talking about grown women attending a Slutwalk. Some women wear the clothes they were wearing when they were raped, or sometimes women wear lingerie, but theyre not doing that to get attention, but to show that it does not matter what they were wearing, they were still raped and that is wrong. The same goes for men. If i saw a guy walking down the st. in a speedo i would probably turn away quickly and think to myself oh good lord why, but if i found out later the reason why i would probably be more ok with it, because he wasnt doing it just to show off his stuff…. Also a guy in a speedo is actually really gross so i would get a message not to touch him anyway, but if a someone was wearing something i thought was hot, i wouldnt walk up to them and get in their bubble, i would leave them alone, but still have my own thoughts

            @Typhonblue
            No i am not. Sorry if i came off that way, but im just trying to get my point across. I used the word you as a pronoun, not that i was actually saying that Bombay is a rapist, and dear lord stop trying to push rape fantasies onto me….

            But also just wanted to say that anything that someone does to themselves is just fine if it makes them feel good (wearing makeup or reveling much skin, anything) as long as nobody gets hurt from what that person is doing

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            @ Meow

            ” dear lord stop trying to push rape fantasies onto me…”

            Stop pushing them on men.

            You’re assuming that men think clothing is an “excuse” to rape a woman.

            Not even the policeman who said the horrible, horrible thing that launched a thousand slut walks thought women wearing certain clothing was an invitation for them to be raped. He said that it would attract the attention of sexual predators, therefore if women wanted to stay safe they should avoid wearing that kind of clothing(I disagree categorically that clothing is a risk factor for rape, but everyone is misrepresenting what this man said.)

            No psychologically healthy man is going to rape you because you wore a miniskirt. Most likely a rapist won’t rape you because you wore a miniskirt, he or she will target you if you look like an easy target.

            So who are you telling not to rape you because you wear a mini skirt? No one but the made up rapist in your own mind. Which, incidentally, you’re objectifying every man you meet down to.

            This speaks to the nonsensical centre of the whole slut walk bullcrap.

            If there are people who think clothing is a license to rape, then informing those who want to be safe of that fact is important. If clothing choice has no relation to risk of rape (most likely) then parading around like a fucking idiot in your underwear saying “this isn’t an invitation to rape me” is just being juvenile and smug about it.

            And the implication is that men are “beasts” who need to be told not to rape someone who’s provocatively dressed. Which according to actual research is an attitude (men are sex starved maniacs that always want it and won’t take no for an answer) that actually _DOES_ correlate to increased rapes, both of female victims of male perpetrators and male victims of female perpetrators.

            So the slut walks, if they’re doing anything at all, are encouraging the attitudes that correlate with increased rape in a population.

            There are no words at how fucking annoying this is.

            Incidentally I was raped. I guess I had a really strange reaction to it because the last thing I’d want to do is parade around in a… well, I guess it would be a child’s one-peice pyjama saying “does this make you want to rape me?”

            God, even typing that was awful.

          • Meow

            @Typhonblue
            Not just men think certain clothing is an excuse to rape, many women also think the same thing. It’s wrong to tell a rape victim that they deserved/got what was coming to them because of their clothing, thats what i was trying to say.

            “I guess it would be a child’s one-peice pyjama saying “does this make you want to rape me?”
            “parading around like a fucking idiot in your underwear saying “this isn’t an invitation to rape me is just being juvenile and smug about it.”

            –Are you saying that certain clothing is indeed an invitation to rape then? Because it seems what im saying is just going in one ear out the other, it does not matter what you are wearing, no one has the right to do what they want with you because of something you did/said, ever. Seeing a person in a swim suit on a hot day is in no way an invitation to even touch them, same goes with clothing.

            Also no i think clothing has a lot to do with rape/harassment. People wear miniskirts(or other things) to make themselves look nice and there is nothing wrong with that, but say that “stalker” sees “walker” in something attractive(getting unwanted attention from a stranger) and then stalker makes a “move” realizing walker seems like an easy target…. Clothing does have something to do with rape. However im not saying just because someone does wear a miniskirt that someone is going to rape them, but it does increase the chances thanks to unwanted attention.

            So are you calling Slutwalks bullcrap, or just that part of Slutwalks? I think its pretty awesome that people can come together and show support for one another because of a similar thing that happened to them

            “you’re objectifying every man you meet down to.” Hmmm yes that must be it, thanks for telling me something about myself that i wasnt even aware of, oh yes, its so very good to know i think of my dad, or my brother as a rapist, yes thank you for pointing this out to me.

          • Near Earth Object

            @ Meow

            “Because it seems what im saying is just going in one ear out the other, it does not matter what you are wearing, no one has the right to do what they want with you because of something you did/said, ever.”

            Your core assertion is:

            “…no one has the right to do what they want with you…”

            Does the following statement hold the same truth value for you, Meow?

            No one has the right to do what they want with you because of your gender.

    • Xayadvara

      ” If a woman is laying passed out on the floor she is not giving you permission to ravage her.”

      ” Blaming the victim/survivor is not okay.”

      I left my iPhone on the railway platform to get a cup of Tea. I FUCKING DIDN’T GIVE ANYONE THE PERMISSION TO STEAL IT FROM ME. But if someone steals it from me, I can say that noone has the right to steal it from me. But if someone blames me for being irresponsible in the first place, I FUCKING MUST LEARN TO ACCEPT THE IRRESPONSIBILITY THERE BECAUSE THE WORLD OUT THERE CERTAINLY DOESN’T GIVE A FUCK. In other words, grow up – be responsible & WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT YOU ARE STUPID – YOU ARE IRRESPONSIBLE – ACCEPT IT & GET OVER IT. Period.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/Correctrix/videos Correctrix

    Hot photo. :)

  • girl

    I am disgusted by this article. Yes, women do enjoy rough sex. Yes, men don’t get enough sympathy or whatever. But if you spend 2,000+ years declaring yourself superior to the other gender, well, you’re gonna get some backlash. As a girl who stumbled upon this article on tumblr, I will give you an analogy. You’re with a guy you really like. He is attractive, smart , and funny. He offers you some chocolate cake, but you decline at first. With a little smile, you finally give in, and the chocolate cake tastes delicious. It’s perfect, and everything you ever wanted. Now you’re with a guy you don’t really like. He’s all over you, shoving chocolate cake in your face. You don’t want it. He keeps shoving it in your face. You ties you up and shoves the cake down your throat. Your throat burns and tries to force the cake out so you can breathe. Tears run down your cheeks and you’re choking. You can’t breathe. You want this chocolate cake away from you. You try to tell him to stop, but more cake keeps suffocating you. You vomit, brown chunks mixed with blood. He shoves the vomit back into your mouth and says, “Eat it! What’s wrong with you? I thought all women liked chocolate cake!” There’s a huge difference when it comes to rough sex and rape. Women like kinky sex with guys they actually like. If they don’t want it, it’s rape, and it’s horrible. Don’t try to justify rape because it’s all about what a girl DOESN’T want, not what she seems to want.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      I am 56. Pretty old, for sure, but I haven’t been doing anything for 2,000 years. That much I am sure of. The rest of your post has exactly nothing to do with this article, especially any rape justification.

      Get over yourself, or if you learn to read and comprehend you may not need to.

      • Cake

        Oi you. You don’t justify rape, but your article allows others to make that justification regardless of your intent. And don’t be stupid. We don’t live in a vacuum where history is irrelevant.

        Came to this place as a male rape victim because it advertised itself as a safe place. What a load of stupid crap.

        • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

          “Came to this place as a male rape victim because it advertised itself as a safe place. What a load of stupid crap.”

          You realize that men being demonized as sexual savages by bigots is also a form of sexual violation that has been practiced against marginalized groups of men throughout history? Black men, jewish men, lower class men.

          And now all men.

          • Cake

            Then why does this article and these comments talk about rape so carelessly??? The only reason I can understand why it gets away with it is because it uses the theme “feminism is bad. let’s make fun of fat women.” as a rallying context.

          • Gordon Wadsworth

            @ Cake: Why does our culture throw the word rape around so carelessly? Why am I accused of having a predilection for rape as a man? Why do I have to read posters at university reminding me not to rape anyone?

            But sure, in a culture gone mad, point the finger at an MHRA for not being sensitive.

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            Because, like any sane human being, they are disgusted with being objectified as rapists in someone else’s rape fantasy.

            Do these women ever ask their fantasy rapist if he wants to be there? No. Nor are they asking all the men they’re casting in his role.

          • Cake

            @Gordon

            Goodness, even the old white men can’t read anymore. I’m pointing my finger very specifically at Paul for being a poor representative of the MHRA.

            The way you generalize as though you speak for everyone here worries me. If I’m not allowed to be critical of other members and certain messages, I’ll stop now. I’d rather not be asked to silently conform every popular author who gets a blog (because this is too much like the feminists you guys “hate”).

            @Typhon
            See, I understand what you’re saying, and why you believe it. It is a terrible stereotype to live with. There are a few crazy people out there who unfairly believe most men are rapists. There are also crazy people out there who believe that most women’s rights activists think of most men as rapists. Even if rape fantasies are popular I’ve been around enough women, and even enough rape victims I’d dare to say, to get the sense that a large majority of them don’t believe that every guy is a rapist, and don’t want them to be in reality. I have great faith that most people can separate fantasy from reality.

          • Gordon Wadsworth

            I don’t speak for anyone but myself. I’m sorry for your pain, especially because you likely have to push to have it acknowledged.

            Just my own personal opinion here: whether or not this site is a safe place, I believe it’s working to make society at large a safe place so men aren’t forced to swallow their pain in silence. Or worse, swallow their pain in silence while being accused of being privileged. Why don’t you stick around for awhile and check out some other articles?

        • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

          Dude, wtf are you some kind of sick perv? “Justify rape”? What kind of creep would get that idea from a romance novel? You may want to seek some help. You need to learn to separate fantasy from reality.

          • Cake

            I don’t understand what you’re referencing.

            I’ll post these comments I found before-

            “I truly think she would have liked to have been raped” -Jonathan Mann
            “she was fuckin’ proud thad she was desirable enough for a man thinking about raping her” -thehermit
            “guess who had a sour face when she wasn’t “raped”” B.R. Merrick

            But people are making an uproar because I suggested if someone- who was already sexually deviant and psychologically damaged- saw this it would reaffirm a common belief found to be held by rapists that most people are like them. This is the exact problem we’re having here! I’m saying that I’m grossed out that an article for men’s rights would be so poorly written to leave the message about rape so open to interpretation by the sick people they’re apparently trying to combat.

          • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

            @ Pudding

            uproar, huh. so who was it again that was starting an uproar?.. was it Pudding?..

            hmm.. so did you arrive here from the 50 Shades comment section? I mean you really must have showed those folks what’s up .. how grossed out you are by …

          • Cake

            No. The only thing I’d touch that book with is a flaming stick. Read what I type ffs. I might be expecting too much from the internet, but ad-hominem attacks will only recruit more retards.

          • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

            @ Cake

            Which ad-hominem señor?

            Well it’s comforting to know that you are willing to touch us without a flaming stick, I guess that’s a compliment of sorts. So, of course, it’s a bigger deal when this tiny obscure MHRA website does commentary on the phenomena of romance novels and ‘female porn’ than the actual novels and porn themselves. Hmm, interesting, and how do you arrive at that? ffs

        • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

          Do you really think that people are allowed or disallowed to hold beliefs because of articles they read?

          And I never said history was irrelevant. I just did not know exactly what to say to anyone so obtuse as to believe that history can be fairly summed up with something as simplistic and dumbed-down as “2,000+ years declaring yourself superior to the other gender”

          I lost patience with that level of ignorant revisionism, like at least 1,900 years ago, so all I have left for it is snarky replies.

          • Cake

            That’s fair enough. But if you don’t care about the message sent by the way in which you make arguments, why do you dismiss the concerns you disagree with on the basis that they way do it doesn’t directly address your article? I believe the point she was trying to make is that there’s a healthy way of going about a submissive sexual role, and you’re generalizing it in a very dangerous way saying that women who may want this actually want to be raped, but only when they don’t agree with you.

        • Turbo

          “Came to this place as a male rape victim because it advertised itself as a safe place. What a load of stupid crap.”

          If this is true Cake, and I have no reason so far to believe it is not, then surely you now understand that in this deeply feminist society governed by deeply feminist laws, you are fucking invisible. You are a man and therefore cannot be raped, or even sexually abused.

          You are a fucking sex addict that walks around with a hard on ready to rape on a seconds notice. That is what feminism tells us, I am surprised that you do not recognize that yet, or perhaps you do.

          But I urge you to stick around and learn more about this place, the people who run it and the general thrust of what is trying to be achieved here. I am positive that you will find it a rewarding experience. Just be patient and read a while. You will find that as a man who has been sexually abused, there is no better place to find understanding of your plight.

          • Cake

            So what I’m understanding is that I shouldn’t judge this website based on an article it published. Also I’m understanding you’re allowed to largely ignore the issues with victim blaming here so long as you use the keyword “dirty scary feminists”. Just because I don’t like them doesn’t mean I’ll like you for trying to feed on that. See black-and-white logical fallacy.

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            Judge this article?

            An article that essentially says a bigot who demonized the sexuality of an entire group of people possibly did so for her own sexual titilation?

            If Paul had said the same think about the KKK and them beating the drum of the savage black man… that maybe they were projecting their inner sexual fantasies and fetishes on an entire group of people… you know what you’d be doing? You’d be having a good laugh with Paul and thumbing your nose at the KKK.

            Even if Paul alluded to how fat the Grand Poobah was, or how much she craved a lil’ bit of the old in and out from the dreaded black mamba.

            The humour is not on rape victims or rape fantasies; it’s on bigots who drag entire groups of people into their delusions and demonize their sexuality while attempting to maintain some sort of “pure” moral righteousness.

            Maybe they’re not so pure or righteous and it’s them with the dirty little minds. Not the (black)men they’re demonizing.

            What the fuck is there to judge?

        • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

          “why do you dismiss the concerns you disagree with on the basis that they way do it doesn’t directly address your article?”

          Because we are in the, uh, comments, to, uh, my article.

          Actually there is a more fair answer for you, but I have to say that I don’t much like having to say the obvious.

          I wrote an article that implied the possibility (which I still stand by) that Andrea Dworkin concocted a rape allegation out of thin air in order to draw some sort of sexual attention to herself.

          I also spiced it up with some true life experience of my own and some knowledge of what makes women tick sexually, which for many is being sexually dominated by men. That includes a common theme of rape fantasies in women.

          The responses were that I supported rape. Real, actual, rape.

          It is just fucking stupid.

          I mean, that is fine. The tumblr feminist crowd, one of the dumber groups in an already dumb subculture, sent about 10,000 hits my way. That is good for the Alexa for sure. And I got a lot of hate mail. Poor me.

          But if anyone wants to come here to rationally debate their objection to this article I am afraid they will be held to a standard of actually responding to what was in it.

          So far, the arguments have been presented something like this:

          • Cake

            Aha you don’t need youtube videos to tell me that you got hate mail from idiots. That’s a given for any article on any sort of site of this nature. My problem isn’t with the idea that you presented. It’s interesting, but the way you presented it is poor as shit and claiming that everyone who complains is a stupid butthurt feminist, claiming that ‘you’re just spicing’ it up is a remotely adequate excuse to carelessly talk about rape without what it may imply about actual victims, is delusional.

            Whining that you don’t explicitly say anything positive about rape doesn’t shield you from the criticism that this relaxed attitude towards consent is toxic for stereotypes against men.

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            “Whining that you don’t explicitly say anything positive about rape doesn’t shield you from the criticism that this relaxed attitude towards consent is toxic for stereotypes against men.”

            The idea that men will somehow start raping because someone informed them that women have rape fantasies is the real toxic stereotype against men here.

            You people from tumblr brought your rape culture with you.

    • Gordon Wadsworth

      This is the most apt metaphor for feminism I’ve ever seen. Just change the word he to she and the word cake to feminism and you’ll understand what it’s like to be a male in this culture.

      P.S. The more I read your reply the more incredible it becomes. The author’s point was to deconstruct this culture of rape hysteria by conjecturing a repressed female desire to be dominated sexually. Way to show up and miss the point by accusing him of justifying rape.

      I can’t decide if you’ve humorously proven his point by showing up and detailing a graphic rape scene or not.

      In any case, nobody here advocates violence of any kind. Give your head a shake.

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      “Yes, men don’t get enough sympathy or whatever.”

      Well, they’re certainly not getting it from you.

      “But if you spend 2,000+ years declaring yourself superior to the other gender, well, you’re gonna get some backlash.”

      I see you’ve got your excuses in order.

      You know there are a lot of men on this site that have been raped and don’t need you to implicitly deny their experiences by “informing” them of what rape is because “men just can’t know.”

    • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

      um.. let’s see girly twirly. you lost me at ‘sympathy or whatever’. I so wanted to give a fuck about your chocolate cake escapades, but somehow I just couldn’t muster the empathy, er whatever.. too busy thinking about myself and my own issues er w/e ..

    • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

      but if you spend 2000+ years feigning and milking the ‘inferior’ role for everything it’s worth, actively allowing and encouraging the other sex to do all of the- you know- dying.. well, you don’t get to backlash shit ..

  • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

    No one here is saying that raype is cool, neither are they saying that theft is cool. Neither are they saying that flaunting one’s shit is cool or uncool. Neither are they saying that some vain, inconsiderate chum who flaunts his shit getting thieved is cool, and while wrong, neither are they hysterically saying that it’s a particularly bfd.

  • Cake

    Hopefully my last thought on this though- if you’re as intelligent as you’d like to believe, you would realize that implying anyone wants to raped would create a knee-jerk response. You then make fun of their knee-jerk responses for not being well thought out when honestly this argument is so terribly constructed it doesn’t deserve critical thought here. Oh shit, you’re attempt at riling people up riled some people up. Pat yourself on the back. There’s nothing about this article and the initial comments that invited open discussion and constructive criticism, ergo it is masturbatory piece of work meant to inflate your egos at the expense of intellectually-honest revolutionary conversations.

    The rest of this website isn’t anywhere near as terrible, but I think I’ll find a healthier place without a literal wall of bigotry staring me down, and articles & comments that remind me I’m a victim of stereotypes nearly as often as popular media itself perpetuates them. Supporting men ideally should be showing them that they can defy harmful societal expectations and lead fulfilling lives; not how to revel in anger at stupid pop culture.

    • August Løvenskiolds

      So sorry that you weren’t up to the challenge, cupCake, but not everyone is. Some are meant to soar; others, be sore.

      Byebye now. Take care.

    • Turbo

      “Supporting men ideally should be showing them that they can defy harmful societal expectations and lead fulfilling lives; not how to revel in anger at stupid pop culture

      It is impossible to defy harmful societal expectations when they are ingrained in law, that is the point.

      I still think you should stick around Cake, just my two cents worth.

    • John A

      Cake, no one said those women want to get raped – they said they had rape fantasies. I’ve had all sorts of fantasies, including war fantasies and I can tell you that I do not want to fight in a war. So just because someone fantasises ‘x’ does not mean that they want ‘x’ to happen to them. The whole point of fantasies is that they are not real. Are you intelligent enough to grasp this?

  • Near Earth Object

    “There’s nothing about this article and the initial comments that invited open discussion and constructive criticism…”

    Sounds to me like you are missing a pinch or dash of something–perhaps even a cup, Cake.

  • August Løvenskiolds

    It is not your clothing – it is how you walk that gets you raped.

    From slate: http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/04/09/journal_of_interpersonal_violence_study_suggests_attackers_choose_victims.html

    The authors secretly filmed 12 people walking—eight women and four men, some of whom had been attacked before. Then, they showed the footage to a group of inmates, some of whom exhibited interpersonal traits commonly associated with psychopathy—manipulativeness, a lack of empathy, superficial friendliness—and asked them whether or not each person would make a good victim.

    These “victim ratings” were then compared against each person’s actual history of victimization. Sure enough, the people whom the psychopaths picked as “likely victims” were usually the ones who had been victimized in the past. These people were often said to have “walked like an easy target”—slowly, asynchronously, with short strides.

    The sample size here is really small, so I’d caution against giving this study’s findings too much weight. Nevertheless, it reinforces something that seems pretty intuitive. Criminals aren’t looking for a challenge. Rather, they want someone timid and inattentive. So bound down the street like you own it. Your new, aggressive gait may deter criminals. And even if this study turns out to be total BS, you’ll still get where you’re going a lot faster. Everyone’s a winner!

  • alex224922

    UM.
    No, my “gina” doesn’t fucking “gingle” at the thought of being raped.
    I was raped by my boyfriend in high school. I was sitting on his bed, with all my clothes on, talking to him because I wanted to have a conversation with him and nothing else. He playfully pushed me down onto his bed and I said, “No hon, I’m not in the mood today.” He tried again because he thought I was teasing, so I raised my voice, got angry and said, “NO, not today.” He then proceeded to guilt me and tell me he really wanted to, but I stood my ground. Finally, he wasn’t having it. He started horsing around with me and then pushed me onto the bed again, got on top of me, and started trying to take my clothes off. I told him NO again, trying to get up but he held me down. That’s when I started yelling at him and hitting him, but he didn’t stop. I was in shock. This was my boyfriend, and he definitely knew me well enough to know the difference between me “secretly wanting it” and not wanting to have sex. I kicked, I hit, I cursed, I CRIED and he still forced his way in.
    There is a DIFFERENCE between rape and consensual sexual dominance. Yes, I enjoy being dominated in bed, but my new boyfriend ALSO enjoys being dominated. My ex didn’t dominate me. He forced me to have sex that I DID NOT WANT. I did not enjoy it, I did not like being raped. You’re a fucking idiot for thinking that part of me deep down actually liked that, that I liked feeling like a piece of meat and having my willpower taken away. You fucking prick.
    Also, “ugly girls don’t get raped?” FUCK YOU. Anyone can get raped because rape is often NOT an act of sexual desire, only violence and domination. You need a therapist because your head is screwed on backwards, sir.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Tell you what. I will get a therapist. Maybe a professional will be able to help me understand why you fail so miserably at reading comprehension.

      I think we need a new word for people like you. Let’s call it rapetard. Yeah, I like it. And no, it is not directed at whether or not you were a rape victim. But your mentality about the subject represents exactly what I write about when addressing rape hysteria and false rape culture.

      Nowhere in this article did I justify or condone rape. Nowhere in anything I have ever written or said or thought in my life have I justified or excused rape. It is just not in me.

      If your emotional state is so labile, so out of control, perhaps it is you that really needs a therapist. You have my sympathy for being the victim of an asshole (if that actually happened) but what you don’t have is the victim power to suck me in to participating in your histrionics. Go dab your eyes, find your emotional leveling (if it is there) and try again.

      • Meow

        No, i agree with Alex, you should look into getting a therapist… You say “labile, so out of control” but Alex seems just fine to me, Alex was only telling an event from a victims eyes; do you have any idea what it must be like to have been raped and then read this article saying women enjoy it? Its fucking nasty. Of course Alex is going to be “emotional” if i ever met someone who wasnt upset about being raped i would be very worried. Also why do you keep questioning if people were actually raped or not???? yeah someone might regret having sex with someone and tell others that it was rape, but how often do you think that happens???? You’re also saying it like women only do that, but if a man/woman had sex with a another and thought later “oh no, he/she might tell however” and instead tells people that they were raped… That is wrong and gross and people who do that are messed up, but seriously why do you keep questioning if people were actually raped??? You should have more sympathy for someone who was actually raped instead of someone who is being blamed for raping someone.

        Also wow thanks, “rapetard” now you are also making fun of rape victims and people with learning disabilities, amazing, thanks you prick

        • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

          ” do you have any idea what it must be like to have been raped and then read this article saying women enjoy it? ”

          What must you go through when you realize that there is an entire genre of fiction devoted to female rape fantasies?

        • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

          Oh, I understand the problem here. It is the same problem that led to the misunderstand the article to begin with.

          I said:

          “Let’s call it rapetard. Yeah, I like it. And no, it is not directed at whether or not you were a rape victim. But your mentality about the subject represents exactly what I write about when addressing rape hysteria and false rape culture.”

          Your response?

          “Also wow thanks, “rapetard” now you are also making fun of rape victims”

          Once again, me:

          “…no, it is not directed at whether or not you were a rape victim.”

          And your response to that:

          “now you are also making fun of rape victims”

          Ah, are we missing something here? Like maybe the ability to comprehend English?

          Or is it that you are willing to lie to further your point?

          • Bombay

            That is also my conclusion. She is just talking at us with one non sequitor after another.

      • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

        @ Paul

        ” You have my sympathy for being the victim of an asshole (if that actually happened)”

        If this isn’t appropriate with a male victim, than it isn’t appropriate with a female victim.

        • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

          It is appropriate with both, I think.

          • JGteMolder

            If someone, regardless of sex or gender or sexuality, smashes the door down screaming about being raped like it’s a merit badge and demanding everyone better get on their knees and not question anything they are saying, otherwise they’ll pull out the rape-victim card to show how ashamed you should be (or just whip that thing out in the middle of a conversation); I say it’s appropriate, again, regardless of sex.

            (Especially when they admit to enjoy sexual domination games, and their text heavily implies they enjoyed them with the partner that supposedly raped them, yet not using the safe word… or were dumb enough not to establish one.)

            If someone is simply relaying their experience, regardless of sex, and explain what it is, it is not.

    • Near Earth Object

      “Anyone can get raped because rape is often NOT an act of sexual desire, only violence and domination.”

      What I am hearing here is that men can be raped.

      Thank you for that acknowledgement.

      • Ken

        Near Earth Object has stomped the yard!

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      “You’re a fucking idiot for thinking that part of me deep down actually liked that, that I liked feeling like a piece of meat and having my willpower taken away.”

      As a victim of a female rapist, do you think I enjoy having myself sacrificed at the altar of feminist ideology? Do you think I enjoy having feminists a. deny what I experienced was rape (Mary Koss) b. minimize what I experienced as a lesser form of rape because of patriarchy c. deflect blame from my rapist onto patriarchy and label her a “victim of patriarchy?”

      Nope. Don’t enjoy that at all.

      In fact I made the extremely bad mistake of revealing my victimization on a feminist website. Secondary victimization and a bout with suicidal ideation was the result. And I had no one but me to turn to.

      I deal because, unlike worthy victims such as yourself, I don’t get a government funded, politically active body telling me that the world owes it to me not to hurt my feelings.

      I had to learn to adjust to a world that doesn’t give a shit and stop expecting it to because, guess what? I didn’t have the option to pretend the world should give a shit about my feelings.

      And adjust I did!

      I took charge of protecting myself. And , ultimately, that’s the way it should be. I don’t want to be in perpetual mental paralysis. I don’t want to live dependant on other’s charity. And I sure as hell don’t want to live in a world sanitized for my safety. The world will not make itself safe for me and it shouldn’t.

      If this article was too intense for you, it’s your responsibility not to seek out something you find offensive.

      And you sought it out, knowing what it contained(or what other people told you it contained). Your click path wasn’t motivated by pain, but self-righteous anger.

      Now if I didn’t get to use my pain to shut people up, you don’t either. That’s when you cross the line from victim to abuser.

      • August Løvenskiolds

        Typhon, your mix of insight, courage, grit and hard work is astonishing and inspiring. If feminists are NOT terrified of you, it is only because they are too befuddled to know what they are up against.

        You rock.

        • Bewildered

          She’s a great role model for young women.

      • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

        “You’re a fucking idiot for thinking that part of me deep down actually liked that, that I liked feeling like a piece of meat and having my willpower taken away.”

        BTW, no one said that rape fantasies equal the real thing. Or that rape victims “secretly enjoyed it”.

        Again, the one thing being said is that a bigot who demonized the sexuality of an entire group of (black)men maybe… MAYBE… was motivated by her own sexual fantasies and resentments to do so.

        It’s insulting, and rude… But then so is a lot of stuff on the KKK or the Nazis or the WBC or….

      • Bewildered

        I took charge of protecting myself. And , ultimately, that’s the way
        it should be. I don’t want to be in perpetual mental paralysis. I don’t
        want to live dependant on other’s charity. And I sure as hell don’t want
        to live in a world sanitized for my safety. The world will not make
        itself safe for me and it shouldn’t.

        If this article was too intense for you, it’s your responsibility not to seek out something you find offensive.

        And
        you sought it out, knowing what it contained(or what other people told
        you it contained). Your click path wasn’t motivated by pain, but
        self-righteous anger.

        Now if I didn’t get to use my pain to shut people up, you don’t either. That’s when you cross the line from victim to abuser.

        BRILLIANT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        The difference between “empowered” and “strong” !

  • Robert Sides

    > “since the first time Abigail Adams asked John to tie her to the bed frame and force a cod piece up her poop shoot.”

    Er, I assume he wasn’t SHOOT-ing bullets in her “chute.” : >D

    Nonetheless, I had to wipe coffee off my monitor after reading Paul’s description.

    Still can’t stop laughing.

  • Robert Sides

    > “The 300+ lb. basilisk of man-hate had a face big enough and pockmarked enough to be used to fake a lunar landing. Her body was roughly the size and shape of a small sperm whale.”

    Hell. Now I’m wiping OJ off the monitor.

  • Robert Sides

    Salsa (and probably other partner-dance) instructors often lament how hard it is to teach “nice” Western guys. The latter don’t like to lead. The think they’re brutes if not “co-leading.”

    The look on women’s faces when they’re not given good leads is priceless.

    The bitter… and embittering… irony is that almost ALL women today, despite all their talk, still want men to make first-moves, socially and sexually. Nonetheless, a handful of oogly-moogly fugly wimmin have made inititiating increasingly dangerous for guys. Sexual harassment can now mean anything from being subjected to the infamous MALE STARE to not looking at women enough.

    Thoroughly modern feminists are, at heart, Victorian prudes

    So… not only does cowardly Snookums duck all the hard (!) stuff required to begin relationships, she’s expanded both definitions of “inappropriateness” and concomitant penalties.

    Lesbian feminists must be happy-happy. More and more men are foregoing relations with even toxic hotties. That increases the prey-pool for lumbering lesbo femihags.

  • Robert Sides

    Posted jpeg links appear like this on my computer:

    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Feminism.jpg[/img]

    Anyone know why?

    They’re not “active.” If I copy and paste the URLS (with or without bracketed data) nothing shows up, save error messages.

    Help!

    I use a PowerPC Mac with Tiger OS (yeah, I know: a pathetically paleolithic set-up).

  • Heroinfriday

    While I know what you were trying to say, this came out wrong. You’re being called a rape-supporter and a rape advocate for this one article because it was written poorly. To us, we understand what you’re trying to say. To them, you’re a rapist.
    Slip-ups like this one can fuck you, the site, and the movement up.

    • Near Earth Object

      “While I know what you were trying to say, this came out wrong.”

      May I ask, what do you think the author of this article was “trying to say”?
      Your ‘constructive’ criticism will give us both more to work with.

      “To us, we understand what you’re trying to say.”

      Who is “us”?

      “Slip-ups like this one can fuck you, the site, and the movement up.”

      Come Monday, this article was written twenty-two (22) months ago. Empirical evidence speaks to the contrary. Can we agree on that?

  • James

    So what you are saying is that women secretly want to get raped? I understand that there are plenty of women out there who are aroused by a man dominating them, but how the hell can you imply…. I’m sorry, let me use a better word, condone, rape? If you intention was to enlighten the people of the Internet that many woman want domination, then I give you an F- on this article. Think of the lives of rape victims, men and women, and how their rapist changed them forever. Many have taken their own lives because of it and many others fear to say anything because of people like you, who basically say that it is socially acceptable. I bet all the women and children who were raped during WWII by the Russians, British, Americans, and other soldiers were secretly wanting it, right? S please stop throwing the coal of bullshit into the furnace, you are encouraging rapist to act. Also you’re supporting men to dominate women, which is dangerous. She might be giving off wrong signs and then who is to blame? Quit encouraging it. Your words might end up putting some moron in prison, because he believes what you say. Instead encourage communication of sexual fantasies and fetishes. F@cking moron.

  • RevSpinnaker

    You realize Paul, that Andrea Dworkin most likely was raped as a child. She fits many of the adult pathologies, weight gain, animosity towards men…

  • Doug Lefelhocz

    I find this article offensive. So I’m not a man who engages in situations like the story at the beginning of this article describes, and never have been such a man. But that such a situation might get classified as rape and end up with handcuffs and a long stretch in prison I do find offensive. And I’d probably find this article even more offensive if that “affirmative consent” nonsense got passed in California and I lived there.