Suzy had been reading women’s fashion magazines for a while. And the more she read, the more concerned she got about her appearance. She started obsessing on her weight and began skipping meals. Then she started skipping nearly all of them. Before long she was severely under weight.
Her family got concerned and called in the psychotherapists, and then, when she continued to self emaciate, they called a team of doctors. She was fed intravenously in intensive care units several times, which helped her put some weight back on, but it didn’t help long term. Eventually she withered down to a living skeleton, suffered heart failure, and died.
The family, stricken with grief and still bewildered, wanted answers. And of course the psychotherapists, who thought nothing of claiming to have answers, in spite of Suzy‘s dead body, were happy to oblige.
Poor Suzy, it seems, was the victim of too many pressures to meet a beauty standard which had been forced upon her and all women by the media and the fashion industry.
Magazines, designed for women readers, show all manner of super thin models dressed glamorously in the latest fashions, surrounded by ads for weight loss programs and diet pills and it pressures them to take action to become thinner, sometimes triggering a psychological free fall where they hit bottom, light as a feather and dead as a door knob. Even the ones that don’t die or get diagnosed with some sort of disease are affected. Poor body image “issues” abound in western culture.
That is just how pernicious this beauty standard is. In fact, it’s not just a beauty standard, the self help gurus will tell you, but a male beauty standard. Wouldn’t you know? It’s always the male something, isn’t it?
That’s been a big part of the take on things every since certain numbers of women started embracing the Auschwitz and Dachau weight loss programs, and others figured that calorie control meant two fingers shoved down your throat after every meal.
Always ready to feed and legitimize this kind of insanity, the world is now starting to respond, with laws, which as we all know eventually means with badges and guns.
Australia has now made it illegal, yes illegal, for female models to be too skinny and male models too muscular. And in association with their recent legal orgy, happily pushed for by uberfeminist Prime Minister Julia Gillard, the legislation also provides funding to fight eating disorders.
For the cuteness factor, perhaps, Brown Shirt Youth Minister Kate Ellis, another radical feminist, has unveiled a body image tick-of-approval program, sort of like the Good Housekeeping seal for designer clothing.
In this, the latest fit of neurotic protectionism for women, the government down under, which can’t balance a budget, is now going to legislate women finding balance at the scales.
I am sure that when the Aussie bureaucrats figure out what too skinny and too muscular actually mean, it will end Anorexia Nervosa and stop millions of fingers from tonsil tickling their way into re-serving lunch via the big hurl.
But of course, there is another problem here.
It’s that male beauty standard thing. It doesn’t exist, and never did. There is, however, a kind of attraction biopsychology, but it applies to the human species- the whole human species. It was never a matter of conscious choice, certainly not by one sex, so it can’t be considered a “standard.” It just is.
“Standard,” is just political speak for “this must be men‘s fault, let‘s pass some laws and take more of their money to enforce them.” When it comes to what attracts men, it’s a simple formula. A waist to hip (WHR) ratio of 0.7 in women will do it. (For men it is 0.9.) That is all there is to it. It is universal, maintaining consistency, even after factor weighing for women of different sizes and the different ways some ethnicities tend to store body fat. For instance, African American women tend to store more body fat in their buttocks than Whites and Asians. And African American men are reputed to prefer women with larger posteriors.
But African Americans, when tested on attractiveness scales found the most attractive WHR in women to be, you guessed it, 0.7. The thing is that the WHR has nothing to do with the size of the woman. It is the ratio that is attractive, not the specific measurements.
It’s a human thing, and we are not getting around it. Certainly not with some wildly off base political victim ploy. Of course, where would the world be these days without wildly off base political victim ploys?
I know, I know, we’d be much better off, but the question was rhetorical. One might argue that the problem is that men prefer the universally attractive WHR in women that are smaller overall and that this contributes to the problem. That’s a fail as well.
Take a look at the overarching female sex symbols from American cinema- the blond bombshells, and even some brunettes and redheads, over the last couple of generations and see what you get. Women like Raquel Welch, Sophia Loren, Jane Mansfield, Anna Nicole Smith, Marilyn Monroe, Rita Hayworth, Jane Russell, and on and on and on.
What do they all have in common? Big boobs, trim but not tiny waists, strong, ample, “child bearing” hips, and of course the roughly 0.7 WHR. But they are generally all big girls with meat on their bones. So if men have collectively expressed what they like physically in women, it’s sure not Twiggy.
So what the hell, exactly, is really going on here, since this isn’t about men or what they want?
The truth is that when you talk to objective medical, or even objective psychiatric experts about eating disorders and poor body image, their firm answers about their origins are that they just don’t know. Most speculate, however, that family dysfunction and/or abuse plays a part.
The problem arises when the subject is handled publicly by gender ideologues who unfortunately have psychological credentials behind which to hide their activism. They never see a problem that they cannot trace back to something about men, and about how women are victims to them.
Hey, I understand, that’s where the bucks and power are. Just take a trip to Sidney and find out. My guess is, though, that you really don’t need to go that far. But what if there is a different explanation than offered by the gurus? God forbid, right? But just the same, let’s take a stab.
Someone once said that if you really want to understand people, forget psychology and sociology. If you want to understand people, look at advertising. And what do we see when we examine advertising to women in western culture. We see corporations that understand that women are obsessed with image and other exterior matters and have very little going on under the surface.
Sorry, but take it up with COSMO. I don’t make this stuff up.
In a world where women claim to want men to see them for who they are on the inside, their purchasing patterns and areas of interest say the exact opposite. In fact, their consumer behavior says there is naught but a meaningless void to see if you bothered to take a peek under the surface.
They put their money (and their men‘s money), time and attention into how they look, and pretty much only into how they look. The fashion industry doesn’t create this, it simply exploits it. And any attempt to control it legislatively is doomed for that very reason.
The problem isn’t with the fashion industry. The problem is with women. And as long as we keep creating illusions for them to point the finger at while they are en route to get that next Gucci accessory or boob job, we will keep losing them, both in body and spirit, to their own devices.
A poll conducted of females in the UK in 2006 indicates that women there spend approximately 8 years of a 63 year life shopping, and they make more trips for their appearance then they do for food.
What if women suddenly said fuck my appearance? I can feel the hackles going up now.
But that isn’t the point, some would say. Women are judged, and harshly, on their appearance! It’s not that simple! Of course, that is a good point. So let’s try again.
What if women suddenly said, fuck my appearance and the people who judge me based on it?
Yep, that is the answer. Rather the right question. But the problem is that going this route has an unfortunate effect. Women who don’t obsess on their appearance aren’t going to be as successful as those who do at manipulating money and other goods out of men. They will have to start getting everything on their own. Bummer.
But you know, there might be something kind of positive that comes with such a crazy idea. Like the development of an internal self. Like focus on accomplishments instead of image. Like less women starving themselves to death in the psychotic pursuit of glamour.
The fact is that eating disorders radiate a problem with modern femininity. And before anyone rushes to point out that there has been a recent increase in male eating disorders, hold up. What the hell should we expect in a society that is inhabited by a lot more emasculated, feminized men? Feminists have pursued turning men into women for 50 years. The up tick in male eating disorders is proof they have made progress.
The solution here falls into the ranks of those you will never hear offered by the gurus, mainly because there is no money in the truth.
Women need to change. They need to quit living shallow, image obsessed, pitifully dependent lives spent in the pursuit of the fruits of other peoples labor, and using their physical appearance to get it done.
If they want to be seen for what they are on the inside, they need get out of the mirror and make sure something on the inside is actually there.
And perhaps, just perhaps, once their inner selves are filled with some substance and character, birthed from their own efforts and accomplishments, they will have something inside they won’t try to heave into the nearest toilet.
Tags: Eating Disorders, Mythbusting, Paul Elam, Psychology, Women
440 Posts in Total 
donations either one-time or on a monthly subscription basis.If you don't have paypal, check out the other options. If you want to get some merchandise and sponsor us at the same time, consider the AVfM store. 
ThoughtCriminal:
Paul Elam:
Jared White:
4thtroika:
Rad:
Eating disorders rarely have to do with physical appearance.
Says who?
Okay, let me revise. Eating disorders manifest themselves in ways that have appear to have a lot to do with physical appearance, but the underlying cause is usually not that. Normal people don’t stop eating if they don’t like the way they look, or make themselves puke.
The biggest problem is self esteem. When a person’s self esteem dips so low that they resort to doing extremely harmful things to themselves, that’s an eating disorder.
My point is it won’t matter if the cultural ideal is a size 0 or a size 20(meaning I’m saying it’s not the medias fault). If someone hates their self enough, they will go to extremes to change that, and that is not the way a normal person responds.
I agree that culturally women are more superficial than I would hope for, but someone has to be messed up already before they have an eating disorder.
This is coming from someone who had an eating disorder for 8 years, spent much time in hospitals and amongst many doctors, and I’m male. I met a lot of people with eating disorders, and I know it’s anecdotal, but I think that’s worth something here.
@ Neko
Sure, I agree with a lot of that, but I think we have to accept that, especially with things like eating disorders, and especially with females, there is a continuum between underlying causes and manifestations of psychological illness.
It is not always so clear where one leaves off and the other begins.
I do know this, women with eating disorders, in particular AN, are really, really obsessed with how they look. I worked, not with, but around many of them over a period of years.
The question becomes, though, just as you say, how to address the self esteem issues?
I am just not buying that blaming the fashion industry is a viable path to any answers. Like with almost any other compulsive behavior, I have never seen any solution that did not involve the individual taking responsibility for their own actions.
I agree there’s a continuum between the causes and manifestations, but if female appearance wasn’t such a culturally valued thing, a disorder would manifest in some other destructive way. Often times eating disorders are present with a host of other disorders, OCD, depression, bipolar disorder, social phobias and anxiety and so on.
I agree that blaming the fashion industry is the wrong way to approach this. I think that a lot of it has to do with the way the kids are raised. For me, growing up, my mother put a lot of emphasis on my physical appearance, how much I ate, and so on. She also was very strict in my accomplishments, but never congratulated me or praised me if I got all As, it was merely expected because I was the ‘smart’ one in the family.
I had an eating disorder up until I started my masters, after I got a degree in EE and fine art. Even though I consider myself accomplished now, I did not then at all. For some reason all my self worth was tied up in how I appeared to people, and I think that’s because that’s what people around me put the most emphasis on.
I don’t know how to fix the self esteem thing. An eating disorder is a very difficult thing to overcome, and the person themselves has to be willing to overcome it. A disorder like that is a coping mechanism, like smoking when you are stressed. Take it away and you feel like you’ve lost something necessary in your life.
The best thing we can do now is make it available for people to get treatment (and this was very hard for me as a male) when they decide they want it. Then it takes years of changing habits, and learning a new perspective with which to look at the world.
So yes, I absolutely agree with you, the individual has to take responsibility for their own actions. But I did not like hostile tone of the end of this article. Many people who have disorders are just a little bit broken in some ways. Those people are not the disorder alone.
And remember, it’s usually the people who never had an eating disorder that wind up with these kinds of accusations. Often times they are the parents (mostly mothers) of children with eating disorders, and are probably blaming these cultural influences for their own negligence.
This is exactly what women complaining about a ‘male beauty standard’ are talking about.
They want to have the same maximum social power as the most attractive women, without having the good luck or putting in the effort that brings this about.
Further, they only care about the beauty standards of the men they are attracted to; they certainly don’t give a damn about what a beta or gamma thinks.
I find myself amused when I see guys commenting about, for example, Heidi Montag’s transformation, saying they thought she was perfectly beautiful. She isn’t doing all that shit and taking those risks for them! It’s to increase her standing in the elite circles she runs with. Those idiots protesting the indictments that they have unrealistic beauty standards are clueless. They are totally invisible to the women pumping or shrinking themselves, and funnily enough, also the women complaining.
Such is the foolishness of the modern mangina.
I agree that insecurity is the root of eating disorders coupled with some other psychological issues. Insecurity can be a result of upbringing and societal pressures. I notice that the people who are the least insecure are the least superficial and materialistic and also have a large range of interests and accomplishments. When women put all their eggs in one superficial basket and their only accomplishment in life is bagging the wealthy man, many will be disappointed and have little to be proud of.
Men can not be blamed entirely for societal pressures and from my own experiences it is women who pressure themselves more than men. Ultimately women are responsible for themselves and it is quite child-like to blame others for their own destructive behaviors. Blaming is a denial of personal responsibility and these types of people will never change.
Generally, men can get dressed in 10 minutes and don’t fret about other’s perceptions. Women take longer and if the man prefers that the woman hurry up and not be so particular, she will continue to keep up her appearances for the public. Why so insecure when her hubby is satisfied with less? Hypergamy!
The insecure princess is a toxic minefield of entitlements. NAWALT, nerdy girls are better.
There are literally hundreds of journal articles and clinical books and pop-psych. self-help books on things like eating disorders and self-esteem. And we can Monday-morning quarterback about that sort of thing until we’re apoplectic. But I think the main point with Paul’s article here, is that the “male beauty standard” is another example of how men (once again) get the blame for something they really had very little to do with.
Eating disorders have a lot more to do with self-esteem and control issues, than beauty standards, but I think Neko already addressed that. In fact, it very rarely really has anything to do with looks at all.
But taking a look at other ridiculous behaviour(breast implants etc), then a point could be made.
I cannot figure out, wether men honestly want to believe they have no influence over women, or wether they want women to admit, that they are not so independant after all, but are influenced by males?
I cannot tell you how many men, I have met that tried to impress me with money, believing that is what I wanted. Where did they get that idea from? I don’t give a shit, I have my own money. I can’t be bought. I imagine seeing women who focus soley on their looks, comes across as just as pathetic and self-serving.
Men blame women for being gold-diggers, and women blame men for only caring about looks. We are as bad as each other. Money/looks makes things easy, shallow and ultimately unfullfilling.
Annie, you asked, From where are many men getting the idea that they can impress women with money? I think you probably already know the answer, but let’s use a thought experiment to better understand this.
If a man came up to you and tried to gain your affections by telling you about his sizable collection of Business Reply Mail cards, would you have asked the same question? Is his strategy so obviously destined for failure that you would legitimately wonder, “Where did [he] get that idea from?” Would you ask that question with the same seriousness as when you asked it about money, or a great deal more?
I sincerely believe that you are already aware of the fact that these men are using the strategy of telling you about their sizable collection of monetary wealth because, when weighed against all other potential approaches, it works most often. If postage cards was the currency of women’s attention, then men would approach you based on that. The intellectual or moral legitimacy of the criteria women respond to is immaterial. Consider that if they tried talking to fifty women about their money (or postage cards), you might be the one they totally fail to impress. NAWALT, indeed.
This is why I wrote the piece that Paul graciously published. From your perspective as a woman who does not care about money, it seems like we’re making a bigger deal out of this than is sensible. In your world, you do not interface with other women in this manner and so when you see us talking about these types of issues, you overestimate the importance of your status as an outlier by orders of magnitude. The unfortunate effect of this is that you equate an issue that does not affect you with one that does. You say gold-digging is just “as bad as” men’s desire for beauty, an equivalence I absolutely reject. Forgive me for this admittedly presumptuous concern, but I suspect that if our culture wasn’t so mindlessly obsessed with the ‘virtue’ of equality, you might even say a desire for beauty was worse. I detect a serious possibility of arbitrary valuation here.
I am acutely aware of how women commenting to MRA sites have an overwhelmingly propensity for making posts that call attention to themselves when the discussion is in generalities. I know exactly why a woman would be inclined do this, and as such I hold no contempt for you or them, but I have to honestly state that I see it as a distraction.
I don’t at all consider it to be a part of balance. It is intrinsically self-serving in nature. I’ve never seen a woman make a post on an MRA board that says “Yeah, that bad behavior you guys are talking about, I do that and I’m terrible for it.”
Annie, you’ve made some comments here that (in my own opinion) have been great, but sending posts that make safe and politically correct charges that men have an equivalent evil to what women are doing isn’t all that compelling in the atmosphere of brutal honesty that exists here.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: we’re not in the business of making everybody behave perfectly as we diligently work to usher in Utopia. The mission is to help men of decency and character keep their heads in a culture that regularly sends undeserving men to the guillotine. Disarming the weapon of women’s eternal victimhood (an example of which is the topic of Paul’s article) is an effective way to spur the attitude changes that can peacefully and sensibly correct the injustices. The ‘bad men’ that you’re worried about don’t care about us, and we really don’t care about them, either.
http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/articlematch.aspx?cp-documentid=25046400>1=32023
OT: but just some proof about our hook up culture and how it affects relationships negatively.
Talking about weight: South Beach Diet. Believe. I’ve conservativly dropped 15 lbs in a month and never have to feel hungry. Smoothies, lean meat, and vegetibles. No bread, pasta or potatos and avoid sugar. I haven’t even followed it very strictly at all, just geared my diet more to reflect it.
BTW: Just watched The Road recently. Very MRAish dealing with father/son bonding and all around excellent, excellent movie. Must see. I’m thinking about it because Vito Morgesson (sic) got to an anorexic weight for it. Not as bad as Christian Bale did for Thinner, but still impressive how serious actors can transform their bodies for different roles.
“That’s been a big part of the take on things ever since certain numbers of women started embracing the Auschwitz and Dachau weight loss programs…”
Paul, that is EXACTLY what I thought when watching some “news” program covering the fashion industry, as some model walked down the runway. Her arms were thinner than her elbows, and her joints stuck way out. I thought to myself, “She looks like a concentration camp victim.” It was not an exaggeration.
Do any men find this appealing? She was beyond thin. No curves, no softness, no interesting proportions. Since the more buxom woman doesn’t do anything for me, either, I’m not sure who finds it attractive. (Although, I must say, if I were straight, I’d be a hip man. J-Lo’s got it going on.)
And I would agree that body image has to do with the hardwiring that occurs early in life. I think eating disorders are only a part of it. Overeating is also linked to it. I think the difference between a skinny guy like me and a skinny guy who turns to steroids is probably abuse, or the way that abuse is interpreted. That’s the important thing. It isn’t so much what mommy or daddy did to you, it’s how you, as a child, interpreted it.
I think one thing that helped me was starting to go to the gym when I was in college. All the jock boys, of whom I was always collectively afraid, were minding their own business and not looking at pitiful little me. The government’s essential school bullies were nowhere to be found. And I built some muscle. More importantly, I was amazed to discover the rapid advancement in weights that any newcomer to weightlifting can expect to experience the first few months.
So perhaps it was the sense of accomplishment that has kept me away from dangerous supplements. But more importantly, I think it has to do with honesty with one’s self. If you don’t know how and why you got hurt as a child, I think eating disorders are going to be an option. On the other hand, perhaps it’s more than that.
And yes, I’m aware that a lot of people would get pissed off with me for saying that I’ve never had a problem staying thin, but the grass is always greener…
Jabberwocky, if you have the time, I would appreciate a PM about the movie “The Road,” as the trailer looked interesting, but that author’s previous book-to-film “No Country for Old Men” has turned me off to violence, so I was wondering about that. Sorry to get off-topic, but I have no other way of contacting you.
A slight but different perspective. Being a simple minded guy, I like to keep it simple. I think the perspective in the article by Paul amply represents the disorder.
“When a person’s self esteem dips so low that they resort to doing extremely harmful things to themselves, that’s an eating disorder.”
“The question becomes, though, just as you say, how to address the self esteem issues?”
The fateful words repeat themselves, “self esteem”. Self esteem has been “monetized” as low, or high. “Low” is diminished and impoverished, “high” is abundant and wealthy. Notice how we never say someone is enjoying normal self esteem, or average self esteem. If we are low in esteem, we should be able to tank up a few liters at the local counseling venue. Or put on some bling, douse ourselves in body paint, take some viagra, get a tatoo, re-monetize. If we have high esteem well then we should share. Inspire others, help out, throw a bone, help the needy, be a fuckin hero. After all if your low then your in the market and if your high you need to get rid of it and get back in the market.
I believe when a woman tells her partner, she is suffering from low self esteem, she is really saying that you have not adequately monetized her self perception to a standard acceptable to her. Thereby tickling her hypergamy button and arousing her game.
Personally I think we have screwed our language up so much with PC and doublespeak, we don’t know what we mean any more. Self esteem for me can be healthy or unhealthy but it’s not in the public domain it’s personal and how we conceptualize ourselves. “Popular esteem” is how we believe the world out there conceptualizes us. Mommy, daddy, the milkman, the mentor and the media. “Market esteem” is where we manifest disorders. A conflict between self and popular esteem manifests how we actualize a response in our behavior to attend the problem. Self esteem is and should be evolving throughout our lives. (which personally I think is influenced by self actualization) Popular esteem is surreal and never stable, a fantasy. A battle between the two results in a state of “false esteem”, in which we await a victor. Otherwise known as a disorder.
Isn’t this what men are doing about misandry in the public’s perception.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ8imPmQ0js&feature=related
Sorry but when it comes to self esteem I don’t think we can give and take it.
This is an issue that has been and is constantly thrown at me by women and I think it’s bullshit looking for a patent.
I agree totally, B.R.,
And while I am well aware that much of my summation was conjecture, I do think that much of this has to do with psychobiological hard wiring.
When you perceived a problem, as a man, you found internal solutions. And you set about a course of action that was totally independent. Women, through a combination of biology and socialization, perceive a problem, and set about getting other people to find a solution.
And again, while I realize the highly hypothetical nature of what I am proposing here, I don’t think it is beyond reason to question whether eating disorders are rooted in an internal lack of substance.
We have a culture that obsessively points to self esteem for all manner of human shortcomings, and then takes on the quest of identifying a culprit to blame for it.
I am reminded once of a group I did. A woman talked about feeling inferior inside. Of course a couple of group members spouted the self esteem drivel that they thought I wanted to hear, and that she needed to.
But then, a man in the group turned to her and said something like, “You are inferior. In some ways, you are less skilled and competent at life than others here. In other ways, perhaps you are more. Thing is, you will always be less than and more than other people around you, in different ways. If you want to do something about that, quit talking about your parents and go accomplish something.”
I wanted to shake his hand and give him my chair.
@ Keith
This is why I am proud to identify as an MRA. There is more raw intelligence in that statement than can be found in a hundred psychiatric journals.
Women further distort self esteem in the control games in relationships by claiming they have been robbed of a precious commodity.
“I lost my self esteem in that bad relationship.”
I used to infuriate female clients by telling them that if you lost your self esteem in a relationship, you never had it to begin with.
Glad we’re in agreement, Paul. There’s “self esteem,” and there’s believing in lies. When children are not guided in the path of truth, and there seem to be limitless ways to do this, they become hardwired to believe falsehoods.
Every hour you are conscious you are thinking to yourself. Like I mentioned in my article “Equality vs. Reality,” about the little girl with the untied shoe, you have to think about the massive lies she’s going to start telling herself when an adult she is counting on fails her.
In some ways, I’m glad I’m never going to have kids. But I’m glad I’m becoming more conscious of the lies. It’s not enough, though. I think people need to recognize the lies, and then take action. It’s only after seeing results in truth-oriented behavior that the truth is not only known, but experienced.
Interesting topics in this article. And that “man in the group” understands individuality completely!
@ Annie
Much like a line from Warren Farrell…..
When’s the last time the girls were chatting about the new “garbage man” you met.
Hmmmmm.
BR: My email is jbbrown513@hotmail.com
I’ll be email pals with anyone who wants to. I’ve been emailing out a synopsis of my life story as an Aspergic geek whose struggle to understand people led me to evolutionary psychology which led me to the MRM.
The Road will make your stomach turn at a lot of scenes. Its intense. I couldn’t give it a review that would do it justice, but its very gray (literally and figuratively) and depressing in a way but ultimately is about the goodness and will to live within us all. I go to IMDB for quick movie info. Internet Movie Data Base.
I have to recommend JW’s synopsis- highly.
And BR, “The Road” is a good movie, just a bit of violence but nothing gratuitous or really graphic. It stayed very true to the book as well.
I thought the only shortcoming was it was a tad anti climactic, but that really is a small nit. I give the book and movie very high marks despite McCormack’s sometimes too quirky writing and the glowing endorsement from Oprah, who I am sure did not even understand the story.
@ Annie- from you in another comment.
Despite the unintelligible last sentence, I think you made your preference in men pretty clear here.
So the question is, if all you want is to get the high hard one, and none of this other stuff matters, what are you doing here?
@ BR
“Interesting topics in this article. And that “man in the group” understands individuality completely!”
Individuality is under attack, we have gone from the personal to the political.
Feminism has congregated all women into a singular political identity, seeking conformity in it’s ranks, at the expense of women’s individuality. The MRM at least in my opinion does not seek conformity to a single identity. Women don’t exist anymore only feminists. They all sound the same, with no individuality. Of course I’m not sure if they all taste the same but I’m still studying that.
@Paul- I thought the kid was a little too whiney, but I think he was meant to portray a younger child than he probably was in actuality and I guess had a very sheltered life.
When the kid would go into shock and shut down it made me think about that from an evolutionary perspective. If you think about it, it makes some sense. Do you want the children panicking in an emergency and making noise that would give away your position to your enemies or predators or would you prefer for them to go catatonic.
Still, if it was my kid, I would have been training him and preparing him to be a survivalist/strategic badass. Again, I don’t know what age he was supposed to be.
@ Paul
“You are inferior.”
Reminds me of a blonde joke!!!
Blonde walking along side a river comes across another blonde on the other side.
Calls out “HEY” “How do I get to the other side of the river?”
Blonde on the other side looks up the river and then turns and looks down the river and pauses.
Then turns back and yells out “YOU ARE ON THE OTHER SIDE”
Please Note:
The previous humor or lack thereof was not intended to offend or otherwise diminish the personal or social significance of existentialist’s, existentialism, or ze Germans.
Thank You
http://lowcarbish.blogspot.com/2010/08/and-rome-continues-to-burn.html
Watch the video at the bottom.
As I understand it, OVEREATING is not “officially” classified as an eating disorder…
Interesting isn’t it?
According to wikipedia (see “eating disorders”), over-eating is not classified as an eating disorder – and if it were, it would be the most common one.
Also, according to what I have read – over-eating carries many more health risks than under-eating.
Why doesn’t our government point this out….
Instead – they focus on anorexia – a problem that kills an average of 150 PEOPLE (not just women) per year (see the CDC web-site).
And in case any feminists are reading this – of those 150, anorexia is listed as the primary or UNDERLYING cause of death.
When I researched anorexia – I found it all to be very interesting…
@ Annie
The actual problem isn’t looks or money. We as a culture simply don’t understand relationships anymore. It’s always someone else’ fault. Truth be damned. Men want fertile women (hip ratio above), period. Women want men who satisfy their hypergamous instincts, period. All else is just gravy around this.
Add on top of this a government that caters to a woman’s insecurities about the big-bad world, and you have a recipe for disaster. To all the women who read this blog, THE GOVERNMENT DOESN’T WANT TO HELP YOU! They are not interested in making your life better. They are interested in power. The easiest way for them to get it is to lie to you. They are not interested in giving you a choice over your bodies, all they have to do is cut the funding and you don’t have a choice anymore. You are dependent on them for your “choice”. They are not interested in making sure you remain physically healthy. They want legislation that dictates what we all can and can’t do. It about power, you are not even part of the equation. You are just a catalyst to get the changes they want moving.
@ Paul
Just a side note. I can’t even look at that first image. It is absolutely disgusting!
“Australia has now made it illegal, yes illegal, for female models to be too skinny and male models too muscular.”
Paul – while I agree that anorexia nervosa is a dangerous disorder and should not be blamed on men, what I read is that it is not a law but rather a set of proposed guidelines that, if met, will earn a fashion magazine a “tick of approval” from Australia’s youth minister. From New York Magazine:
“The new guidelines for winning this “tick of approval”:
– Disclose when images have been retouched and refrain from enhancing photographs in a way that changes a person’s body shape, for example, lengthening their legs or trimming their waist, or removing freckles, lines and other distinguishing marks.
– Only use models aged 16 or older to model adult clothes – both on catwalks and in print.
– Refrain from using models who are very thin – or male models who are excessively muscular.
– Stocking clothing in a wide variety of sizes in shops to reflect the demand from customers.
– Using a broad range of body shapes, sizes and ethnicities in editorial and advertising.
– Not promoting rapid weight loss, cosmetic surgery, excessive exercising or any advertisements or editorial content that may promote a negative body image.”
The fashion mags can choose to pursue this questionable seal of approval or not. Whether a ‘tick of approval’ will change anyone’s behavior or alter advertising practices remains to be seen.
I’m not arguing your basic premise, just encouraging caution when you report something as a law that has passed when it isn’t, and it hasn’t.
Eating disorders are complex and multifactorial. If the fashion industry were entirely to blame, we’d all be anorexic. Women who look like your first image but think they’re fat clearly have some major mental health issues. I don’t think it’s fair to imply that women with eating disorders are simply lacking “substance and character.”
With the basic point of your article, I think, which is that the term “male beauty standard” is a misnomer, I agree. If anything, it should be called “female beauty standard” since we put it upon ourselves.
I always found the discussion of female attractiveness rather trite; I’ll also point out it is not my intent to insult the article.
Rather, I’ve always found women who are of a reasonable body fat percentage (read: no excess folds), have to put forth a great deal of effort to look UNattractive (barring visible scars, birth marks, etc etc). I’m thinking upwards of 90% of girls who reach my personal BF% preference are “do-able”…So, after weight consideration (well, to be fair, obesity has made this quite a…large…issue) the real quality of a girl boils down to overall demeanor, intelligence, and the like.
I just don’t get the obsession with looks/cosmetics/clothing/etc – Don’t be a whale and smile. Bam – you’re ahead of the game!
Then, of course, there’s Roseanne Barr, who claimed to have anorexia-dyslexia: “I don’t think I’m fat enough!”
Love the Roseanne Barr quote, BR!
What about the male beauty standard for men? Don’t you guys feel pressure from each other to look a certain way? Or is that all Madison Ave too?
@ Peggy
I have never felt, outside my father screaming at me to get a haircut in my youth, any pressure from any man about my appearance. I used to dress much nicer than I do know when impressing women meant something to me, so I suppose that could be construed as some sort of male competition, but I never consciously thought of it that way.
@ Peggy
Guys don’t operate like that. It’s what you can do that matters and how honorably you treat others. Your word is worth gold or it’s not worth much at all. That’s about all men really care about.
“In a world where women claim to want men to see them for who they are on the inside, their purchasing patterns and areas of interest say the exact opposite.”
Their purchasing patterns aren’t based on how they want men to view them, they base such patterns on how they expect men to view them.
That said, they should be more concerned with learning to get what they want (be it physical resources or others, like emotional intimacy) for themselves, not by trying to appeal to the person holding those resources.
Men will base their desire for women largely on appearance. If not, then at least the initial attraction is usually dependent on purely physical appearnaces. But men don’t bother forming lasting relationships with boring people. Boring people are fine for a one-night stand, but the women who develop character are often the ones to win the prize they were never really ‘competing’ for in the first place; the love and intimacy of a deserving and well deserved good man.
I think “eating disorders” are just another example of a phoney syndrome made up by “mental health professionals” to give themselves a problem to solve.
Anorexia nervosa, is nothing more than a strategy used by women and young girls who’ve learned that starving themselves is another way to elicit the one thing most women want, most of all, most of the time – ATTENTION. If these people weren’t rewarded with the attention they crave, the “problem” would evaporate.
Recently I was having a discussion with two young women, both of whom fancy themselves as aspiring playwrights, they were talking about putting together a project on the topic of female body image and made the mistake of asking me if I’d be interested in offering a male perspective on the topic. I let em have it. I said, is there no other subject matter in the entire world of human experience that you could make a play about? I put it to them that far from helping women cope with their so called body image issues, they were instead feeding into women’s “neurosis” about the way they look, by making body image a perpetual ISSUE.
I advised them to TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE (for a change) unless they honestly believed they had something NEW to say about the topic – which for me would ONLY be to tell women to STOP WHINING about BODY IMAGE. I told them that men are going to LAVISH upon the women they find most attractive and ignore the ones they don’t find attractive, UNTIL women offer something other than the way they look that can attract the INTEREST of men as effectively as GOOD looks.
And you can lament the “shallowness” of men till kingdom come, but we aint gonna change until women give us the choice that allows us to change by giving us something to value women for other than their looks.
What that means for most women is that you will ALWAYS be fighting a futile battle to attain the heights of priviledge, adoration and attention that the top 2% of beautiful women enjoy, just for turning up. Something we KNOW you desperately want to experience too, but are continually frustrated in the getting, hence the incessant agonising over body image.
In closing I said – cure cancer or find a solution to drought. Do something useful and go make the tea woman.
My friends were shell shocked and I was triumphant. I wanted to squeeze a lil more out of the moment and asked them if they got it. They were bright girls, they did get it.
They giggled – in that “you man you” kind of way that girls do.
LOL!
“Anorexia nervosa, is nothing more than a strategy used by women and young girls who’ve learned that starving themselves is another way to elicit the one thing most women want, most of all, most of the time – ATTENTION. If these people weren’t rewarded with the attention they crave, the “problem” would evaporate. ”
I agree with your premises here, but I would come to opposite conclusion. It is the destructive habit in order to bring about something basic that qualifies these things as disordered thought. The whole point of calling these things disorders is that it’s NOT rational to starve your body in the hopes that people will pay attention to you.
I would also add that it’s a classic case of people thinking that putting a name to a disorder excuses the behavior. You can put the name anti-social personality disorder on a person who shows lower activation in the amygdala, but just because the person is born with that brain structure doesn’t mean we excuse them when they commit murder. A fat person born with genes for an efficient metabolism that uses very little consumed food to do more work isn’t excused from their fatness (or, rather, they shouldn’t be).
So it is with Anorexia Nervosa and Bulemia. These disorders happen for a reason, but everything happens for a reason, and that doesn’t mean it can’t be changed.
“Women need to change. They need to quit living shallow, image obsessed, pitifully dependent lives spent in the pursuit of the fruits of other peoples labor, and using their physical appearance to get it done.”
QFT.
@ Peggy,
“What about the male beauty standard for men? Don’t you guys feel pressure from each other to look a certain way? Or is that all Madison Ave too?”
No. Men are natural friendsters. Besides, fat men aren’t really fat.
Seriously? You guys have never felt the desire or pressure to have a certain kind of body? Or wear certain clothes or brands? You don’t hear talk among men about what kind of suit so and so has, or how some guy has lost weight and looks good, or how you wish you had his body (not THAT way, BR!)? I’m not talking about pressure from women you date or want to date. I’m talking about overt or subtle standards that you hold each other up to in your own way.
There is a certain male body type (lean, buff, narrow waist and hips, flat stomach) that is perpetuated in the media and advertising. I just expect that men might want to have that, and to try to achieve it. Not that y’all should, no more than women should try to be something we’re not, but surely you have experienced something like we do in the way of expectations, pressure, competition about your looks.
Snark, if fat men aren’t really fat, what are they? “Comfortable?”
I was kidding with that line, but seriously, no, men do not judge each other’s bodies, not in any serious way.
That’s why you get fat guys hanging around with skinny guys who look nerdy and guys who look like they might kick your ass any minute.
We just don’t care about that.
Unlike women. I generally find that women hang out with other women of their own attractiveness gradient. Hence girls who could be models will hang out together, but they won’t allow an ugly feminist into their social circle. The ugly feminists have to hang out with each other.
This is a purely female psychopathology. I’ve written before about women’s tendency towards hierarchy. (It’s why the myths about how men shouldn’t date “out of their league,” and Game being equivalent to rape have emerged.) Physical attractiveness is its most obvious manifestation when you think about it. The pretty girls love it, because it lets them sit at the top as queen bees without having had to do squat to earn it. The ugly girls hate it, of course, and blame men for creating a false hierarchy (which men did not do) – though the ugly girls would be extolling the hierarchy’s virtues if they sat atop it. It’s pure solipsism. Any hierarchy that benefits a woman, she will almost certainly support; her mind is impenetrable to concerns of justice and right. (NAWALT.)
On the other hand, men don’t even judge each other that way. If a male friend has worked out a ton and has a toned body, the most I am going to think is, hey, good for him. But I’d never think less of a guy for NOT having a toned body, as aesthetically beautiful as the healthy male body is. As mentioned above, what matters to men, when it comes to other men, is character. Is this a man of his word? Worthy of my respect?
“There is a certain male body type (lean, buff, narrow waist and hips, flat stomach) that is perpetuated in the media and advertising. I just expect that men might want to have that, and to try to achieve it.”
Speaking personally, I’m aware that I would probably look better with something approaching that body type, and would probably be a lot healthier too. But I don’t care anywhere near enough to worry or to want to change my lifestyle. I’m not unhealthy or unattractive, and that makes me content enough.
Actually the pressures on men come in a myriad of forms: to be big, strong and bad ass. To be stoic when all you wanna do wail like a new born hungry for his mama’s milk. To be fearless when you face danger, to be brave enough overcome your fear when all ya wanna do is run for dear life. To be resourceful even though you’re one pay check away from destitution. To rise above your education (or lack thereof) and be smart and intelligent, clever and wise. To sacrifice yourself for any deemed weaker than you when all you want is for someone to take all that pressure away by taking YOUR place.
The worst trick played on men is that they are taught to endure it all in SILENCE, which is why people can blithely ask – do men have no pressure equivalent to body image? They just don’t know because men don’t say.
Other than that there are no pressures on men, comparable to the huge cross that women bear in coping with their body image issues.
ResoluteMan,
I did not ask if men have pressure “equivalent to body image”. I asked if men had body image pressure. By no means would I ever think that is the only pressure a man endures!
@Peggy Spencer
and I gave examples of image pressure, i.e. how men want to be seen vs how they might really feel about themselves in the given contexts.
@Connor
“I agree with your premises here, but I would come to opposite conclusion. It is the destructive habit in order to bring about something basic that qualifies these things as disordered thought. The whole point of calling these things disorders is that it’s NOT rational to starve your body in the hopes that people will pay attention to you.”
I take your point, but it seems to me that “eating disorders” are a mainly a phenomem in wealthy countries where there is an over abundance of food. Take “compulsive” over eating – can’t over eat in a society where food is scarce, ergo no compulsive eating disorder there, and no need for anyone to be diagnosed as “eating disordered” due to an unhealthy relationship with food.
Women compete on looks, men compete on ability, accomplishment and intellect.
Oh, women compete on more than just looks, trust me.
Sure they do, sometimes. Including the competition between women on what they can get with their looks.
I will give you the NAWALT, but I think it is pretty clear that women measure up against each other on pretty much appearance alone (or what it can get them) and men measure against each other in the ways I described.
Hanging on to exceptions only dilutes our understanding of the rule.
@Paul
Aaargh! stole my line.
@Peggy
Can you give some examples of female competition that do not involve rivalry over looks?
There are traits most men in society find attractive, and society can mold them to some extent – if everyone else is going after a goal it must be worth it says the inner ape- but there are men for every standard. I’d say we should teach women and men they don’t have to live for / on one another using their bodies to manipulate prey into getting in their mouths and feeding them. Better yet we shouldn’t care so much about their own or others appearance – we let people profit off exploiting this natural urge to look attractive, IMO magazines like cosmo should be regulated if they’re using sex to sell. Even if the problem has its roots in nature we can prune the bushes and try keeping it at bay, rather than feeding it with manure. Telling women they need to change won’t do it, we need real action backed by legislation, and in the current climate i can’t see that happening
Sexually men want certain things. I dont care if it hurts their feelings I wont sleep with them.
Don’t flatter yourself Lib from your statement they probably don’t want to sleep with you either.
@ResoluteMan
“Can you give some examples of female competition that do not involve rivalry over looks?”
Sure. Sports. Academics. Art.
@Peggy Spencer
What, you mean like, who’s the best looking artists’ model? Just kidding. LOL!
“Seriously? You guys have never felt the desire or pressure to have a certain kind of body? Or wear certain clothes or brands?” Peggy, you can find ghetto boys who will only wear Reebok, so in certain subcultures, yes, you have to wear the right brand. Also, in the business culture, the higher your salary, the more likely you are to be concerned about where you bought your suit. And the Bowflex people are making a mint off of a “certain kind of body,” so yes there are indeed men out there who feel the pressure (otherwise there’d be no steroid problem.)
But I think ResoluteMan has it right on this one. For the most part, men may wish for a better body, but the men out there carrying a bit of a paunch have simply given up and are looking for fulfillment elsewhere. Men’s needs tend to be simpler than women’s. I haven’t completely given up on building more muscle (even after 20 years in the gym), but I have contented myself with maintaining what I’ve got. And a man who is confident in himself who also has a paunch… ooo baby!
I’m surprised, however, with all this talk about what men look for in women, that no one has mentioned FEEDING THE MAN. A woman’s looks, sure, that’s what a lot of men are preoccupied with, but of equal (or nearly equal) value is dinner, every night, without fail.
I like to suit up to get women, simply because it works to make them compete for my attention. I don’t bother on a daily basis or when I’m around friends. I don’t feel any pressure from guys or even much competition. I don’t make any additional effort to have a perfect body, just healthy. On a relative basis, I think women work a lot harder to look good and critisize themselves more than men.
I just heard there was a study done that says the pill makes women smarter. The study claims that women’s brains grow by 3% while on the pill. Sounds to me like the start of yet another myth of female supremacy.
Really informative, Thanx Paul.
Self esteem. Feminists talk about it a lot because you can’t weight it, it has no color, size or shape, it’s a perfect tool to talk alot about for such women. They can give it any quality they like. The problem is, bullies often have high self esteem measured by the questions such women ask, and many successful people are very insecure.
Anorexia, was blamed on men with Steinem, Ann Landers and others blaming men. Steinem came up with ripping off the Beauty Myth author; what was her name, Wolf? Claiming 150,000 women died a year, compared that to Hitler killing Jews only for these women it was men killing women. Steinem spoke recently at a forum on eating disorders, still blaming men of course, and saying if early feminists should have done anything differently it would be to be ruder, of course. Well how about this… instead of being ruder, an almost impossible task, take a math class and science classes and psychology too and learn the difference between feminist porno and gender issues. Feminist porno excites feminist women as they rip into men. The 150,000 a year number turned out to be somewhere between 50 and 100. Turns out that it affects men and that men on steroids are the other side of that coin. Turns out that genetics play a part. IF 150,000 women were dying a year in 30 years Safeway would only have male shoppers with the exception of the dozen or so emaciated women crawling down the aisle toward the vita-water aisle but blocked off by skinny dead bodies. If rich men wanted skinny women Micheal Douglas would not have married — Clint Eastwood would not have married — Donald Trump would not have married, women with sexy bodies.
guy beauty standard or gay beauty standard? i think that’s the real question
My take on EDs including anorexia – the co-morbid incidence between personality disorders(PDs) and EDs is not a coincidence. Many people (because men get EDs too – I am involved in their treatment) are the children of PDIs and often wear the consequences of this upbringing developing their own PD and comorbid conditions.
Outside the issue of PD and EDs, women are each other’s own worst critics when it comes to body image – it is not men who force us to conform to fashion and body styles, it is female on female competition.
I had recent reason to wear head-covering due to a surgical procedure. Over the several weeks I was wearing scarves I never once received a negative comment on my choice from a man – in fact many male friends, colleagues and clients commented that the look suited me.
I got heaps of shit from women who felt I was doing it for the wrong reasons. What fecking “wrong reason” is covering up a bald spot after having a skin cancer removed? But no, they tried to link it to my faith, to my support of MRA, and very few actually asked me for the reason I was needing to avoid exposing my scalp.
The only woman who gave me a complement was an African muslim woman in one of my classes I was taking part time – she wanted to know how I had tied the scarf I was wearing that day as she had never seen that fold before, and she wanted to be able to use if when she was playing sport.