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Neely Steinberg loves you, as long as you don’t love yourself

Neely Steinberg, the relationship/dating columnist for Blast Magazine, has a lot of things she loves about men; Twenty, to be exact. She posted the complete list as part of an article over at the Good Men Project, an online publication that has, by a rather strange twist of events, begun to accommodate some actual defense of men in recent days, and in the process has alienated some people whose bread and butter resides in attacks on the same.

But before we rush to praise this newfound religion, we should take a moment to examine Steinberg’s ideas, especially as honest money says they echo the oft stated sentiments of GMP founder Tom Matlack, and his increasingly vocal shill, Lisa Hickey, regarding men and masculinity. I bring Tom into this because Steinberg’s piece is indicative of where I think Tom has wanted the GMP to go all along.

So what are the qualities in a man that makes Neely’s heart go all aflutter, and lifts it up on the wings of her womanly passion? Here’s her version of the testosterone top 20:

I love when a man puts his hand on the small of a woman’s lower back, as if to say, I’m here for you if you need me.

I love when a man wipes away a woman’s tears or pushes a strand of her hair away from her face, tucking it lovingly behind her ear.

I love how millions of men go off to work every day and then come home after long work hours to share in the housework and child-rearing.

I love how men contribute hundreds of millions of dollars every year to charities in the U.S. and across the globe.

I love when a man makes us feel like women.

I love when a man waits patiently inside an elevator to let all the ladies out first.

I love how a man who would go to the ends of the earth for a woman he loves.

I love how a man who will rub his partner’s feet at the end of the day even though he’s had a hard day at work too.

I love the men who so bravely and willingly risk their lives in service to our country and to protect us all.

I love being Little Spoon.

I love the way a man looks into his child’s eyes and loses himself.

I love that men’s various discoveries throughout the ages (scientific, mathematical, medical, etc.) have made our lives easier.

I love the way a man runs into the ocean like maniac.

I love the shape of a man’s big, strong back when he leans over to pick up something heavy.

I love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman happy.

I love when a man tells a woman how lucky he is to have found her.

I love the way a man takes a woman’s delicate hand, brings it to his lips, and kisses it gently, showing how much he adores her.

I love when a man chows down on his food, as if only a 9.0 Richter Scale earthquake could shake him from his glorious feast.

I love how a man in love thinks of his partner’s sexual pleasure before his own.

I love a man who will do the jobs that most of us would never consider. Sewer inspector, anyone?

I understand the appeal. There was a time in my life when I thought the world of people who didn’t clutter my life with their own needs or concerns for their own well-being; who did all the nasty, painful, dangerous and sacrificing tasks in life, while I got to remain protected, carefree and clueless. I got to live on a pedestal at the expense of others, and I didn’t have to consider the cost.

Yes, I remember it clearly now. It was called childhood. It was a time that was, in retrospect, one of unending self-indulgence – provided by responsible people that knew such sacrifices came with raising someone who, by the nature of life, was relatively helpless. Fortunately, they also took the responsibility of walking me through pain of growing out of that and showing me the more realistic world that did not revolve around me.

Am I being verbose? Well, I could have summed all this up in one sentence.

When the things I loved about people were the closest to the twenty items on Steinberg’s list, it was also the time that I didn’t have the maturity to care about anyone else’s needs and wants but my own.

What else could such a list represent?

Twenty reasons to love? No, Neely, twenty narcissistic fantasies; twenty ideas that reveal your belief that you are more inherently valuable than the men you claim to love. And for me, twenty eye rolls and twenty reasons to figure that your notions of love originate not in the heart, but the mirror.

You tell us you “love the men who so bravely and willingly risk their lives in service to our country and to protect us all.” Well, as a man who wore the uniform, please allow me to say thank you for that. I will remember to carry your message of “love” on my next trip to the V.A. Hospital, and pass it along to the young men with no legs; men whose bodies and lives have been shredded and shattered and piled up through the ages at your entitled feet. I will tell them all is not lost. They have love of Neely Steinberg, internet relationship guru from Boston.

But first please indulge me with a question or two. Did it ever occur to you to plead with these men you “love” not to put themselves in harm’s way? Is it not strange, even perverse, that in a world terrorized with illicit wars, that you dangle love like a carrot for the men who leave body parts, or everything, on the battlefield?

And please tell me, if you really loved these men, in the most pure and real definition of the word, and you support their being fodder, would you not be better off talking of your willingness to stand with them where the metal meets the meat, willing to offer your own blood for whatever cause you have deemed sufficient to demand their sacrifice? Or are you just satisfied in a world where they fall in your stead while you bestow platitudes and hollow affections?

You also say that “love the shape of a man’s big, strong back when he leans over to pick up something heavy.” No doubt, this is a great turn on for you. But isn’t your sentence incomplete? Would it not be more accurate to add the words for me on to the end? This is one of the things you really love most about men, is it not? The willingness to do your heavy lifting; and the payment of the price for that labor with a broken body that eventually buckles beneath the weight of all your “love”?

I think that is the answer, and nowhere is it more aptly revealed than in three of your reasons in particular, as follows:

I love how a man in love thinks of his partner’s sexual pleasure before his own.

I love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman happy.

I love the way a man takes a woman’s delicate hand, brings it to his lips, and kisses it gently, showing how much he adores her.

Admittedly, these things do not rise to the level of catching bullets, staring down danger or converting one’s body into an appliance for your convenience. They do, however, make all things possible. You’ve concluded in them that even in life’s most intimate moments, even after you have been serviced and sacrificed for, that you, and only you, are the only thing that really matters.

Love? Please. These acts, or rather your infatuation with them, are not elements of any kind of love. You don’t love men. You love yourself. You just use men as your visible proof that what you want is justified and wholesome, and not the conceited, parasitic sickness that it is. If there is love to be had in this world, you are the least deserving of it.

What is a man worth to you, Ms. Steinberg? I don’t mean his service and sacrifice, but his intrinsic worth as a human being. What love do you have for your fellow man that is not based on his blood, his back or his wallet? Do you even comprehend these questions and why I am asking?  Or am I asking the wrong person?

I was pleased to see that Tom Matlack finally took some semblance of a stand against his own expected utility to feminists, apparently after spending too much time on their leash settling for the crumbs of appreciation tossed down from his betters. So I do have hopes that as Tom continues to mature, to learn, and to find values that are actually worth standing up for, that he gets to the next level of his development as a man, and figures out that there is no difference between Neely Steinberg and the feminist ideologues that have just crucified him for not toting their barge. Both view Tom only in terms of what he will do to serve them; both will blithely slip a shank in his back the moment he forgets that they both “love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman happy.”

That will happen when the day comes that he starts writing about the innate human worth of men; about their real struggles and not just their willingness to sacrifice for women and other men. And no, we are not talking about men embarking on a path of solipsism that would result in more self-indulgent lists of petty desires à la Steinberg.

I am speaking instead of the simple and honest fruition of love; the idea that you are worth something before you pay for it in blood, sweat and tears. And that the idea of tending to your own needs and your own survival, and those of your fellow man, is not an act of shame, cowardice or unworthiness, except in the eyes of the depraved.

About Paul Elam

Paul Elam is the founder and publisher of A Voice for Men, the founder of A Voice for Men Radio, the AVfM YouTube Channel, and appears weekly on AVFM Intelligence Report, Going Mental with Dr. Tara Palmatier and weekly on MANstream Media with Warren Farrell and Tom Golden.

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  • JFinn

    So I re-posted the list on a popular website about marriage and divorce. However, I switched the genders. 20 things I love about women. I had to tweak a few of the items. Like the sewer/soldier stuff to “I love how, as equality spreads, women in the future…”

    Responses so far:

    “Some of that was nice but most of it was condescending and sickening…right out of the ’50’s..yuck!”(written by “A Canadian”)

    “What a crock! You sound like a male chauvinist pig to me. ‘A Canadian': I think you nailed this guy!”

    “That’s sweet. Men should have some of those traits to though. Like rubbing his partner’s feet after a long day at work.”

    ” You need a therapist not a women.”

    ” “I love being big spoon” :) I’ll have to show this to hubby.”

    “21. I’m amazed how they can bleed for a week and not die.

    22. I love how they can bury a bone without getting their nose dirty.

    Subtly isn’t your strong suite, obviously.”

    “Many women already work as Health Inspectors, and yes, they inspect sewers amongst other things…
    Just saying…”

    I’ll update this later.

    • http://mens-rights.blogspot.com/ Tom Snark

      What do you know? When you say these kind of things about women, it’s sexist.

      Still, given the revelation that this neely thing laughs about men being mutilated, I can’t say I’m surprised any more that it would put out the list above.

      It’s not ignorance. It’s hatred.

      “We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
      – Neely Steinberg on male genital mutilation

      • JFinn

        Neely’s tweets about the people objecting to her “20 things I love about men” article:

        “NeelySteinberg Some felt my list was too much about traditional masculine qualities and therefore limiting. Oh well @Gabdate I can’t understand what a man wouldn’t like from that list. I don’t get it.”

        If you read that comment section – most of the objections voiced here exist there. She’s intentionally misrepresenting them. They make it clear that the problem is that public gender issues are always gynocentric, even when talking “about” men. Also:

        “Aren’t you sweet! Some guys are not very fond of it. Sometimes you just can’t win. :)

        “Ha, thx for the RT Keisha. Let’s just say that some people take themselves waaaay too seriously.
        @quiethaylestorm post was nice. the comments?? wowzers”

        Of course, if men took themselves anywhere near as seriously as modern women do, this growing MRM wouldn’t be necessary.

        “MenAreJerks Men Are Jerks
        RT @GoodMenProject: 20 Things I Love About Men @NeelySteinberg loves men and shares a list of qualities > Yes, there is an upside!”

        No surprise that someone named “men are jerks” would like her article. Interesting that Neely RT’d her on Neely’s twitter page, though

    • Poester99

      I’m a Canadian, your “A Canadian” can go f* herself..

  • http://mens-rights.blogspot.com/ Tom Snark

    http://tpn.thepulsenetwork.com/Episodes.aspx?s=the-dating-pulse-with-nic-and-neely#video

    Neely Steinberg deserves a place on register-her.com

    Category: Bigot

    • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      At or about 1:17, “We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”

      • Fr Bob

        Yes very much out there of how she feels about men’s pain.

    • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

      Wow, what a POS she is.

    • Paul Elam

      Which video #? I got a list of them following your link.

      • http://mens-rights.blogspot.com/ Tom Snark

        One titled: “Nic and Neely’s Newsroom: The Catherine Becker Case” and the other called: “9 Reasons To Never Cut Off Your Man’s Penis”.

        • victorsvoice

          Only the one with the 9 reasons seems to be there Tom.
          The other one I can recall from my memory and with the help of an old comment that I left on a YouTube video back then.

          So you will only find one of the two videos there, Paul.

        • scatmaster

          I am still trying to download it. Not having much luck.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

      Uh oh…

      Right now Paul has caught up about this video and my guess it’s better to turn away in a minute.

      It’s going to look ugly.

      • Kimski

        Congrats, guys.
        You most certainly caught yourselves a nice pair of bigots there.

        Now, how to cook them.
        Will they be served smoked or fried?

        • BeijaFlor

          I vote “stewed in their own juices.”

          Originally I offered to contribute a pressure-cooker, but now I realize that AVfM is pressure-cooker enough.

    • scatmaster

      Looks like they have got rid of the episodes on the pulse network as well. The link forwards to a different area of the site. Good thing we got it downloaded in time they are so transparent.

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

    The Glove and The Lions – James Henry Leigh Hunt

    King Francis was a hearty king, and loved a royal sport,
    And one day as his lions fought, sat looking on the court;
    The nobles filled the benches, and the ladies in their pride,
    And ‘mongst them sat the Count de Lorge, with one for whom he sighed:
    And truly ’twas a gallant thing to see that crowning show,
    Valour and love, and a king above, and the royal beasts below.

    Ramped and roared the lions, with horrid laughing jaws;
    They bit, they glared, gave blows like beams, a wind went with their paws;
    With wallowing might and stifled roar they rolled on one another;
    Till all the pit with sand and mane was in a thunderous smother;
    The bloody foam above the bars came whisking through the air;
    Said Francis then, “Faith, gentlemen, we’re better here than there.”

    De Lorge’s love o’erheard the King, a beauteous lively dame
    With smiling lips and sharp bright eyes, which always seemed the same;
    She thought, the Count my lover is brave as brave can be;
    He surely would do wondrous things to show his love of me;
    King, ladies, lovers, all look on; the occasion is divine;
    I’ll drop my glove, to prove his love; great glory will be mine.

    She dropped her glove, to prove his love, then looked at him and smiled;
    He bowed, and in a moment leaped among the lions wild:
    The leap was quick, return was quick, he has regained his place,
    Then threw the glove, but not with love, right in the lady’s face.
    “By God!” said Francis, “rightly done!” and he rose from where he sat:
    “No love,” quoth he, “but vanity, sets love a task like that.”

    • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

      Glorious, Denis. Thank you for that gem.

  • Morgri

    Okay, So I frequent both this site, GMP, Dalrock, Standyourground, Feministing, and a few other gender sites, so I feel like I have a good enough background to comment and get slaughtered by both the Feminist and MRA.

    The big problem I found with Neely’s article was its inconsisty with the main theme. In her article she points out that she wanted write the qualities she loved about men without factoring in any ” feminism, slut shaming or gender depictions in the media or rape culture.” The first 6 or 7 examples, though, pretty much say “in my opinion a man is only good at the service of his woman.” How is this not factoring in feminism?

    Admittably, I do help out a lot with the housework at home, in fact, I think I do a bit more than my wife, but this isn’t something that makes me good. It is something I do because I want to show my appreciation and love to my wife. Me doing this does not make me inherently a good man. I force myself to do it and work on it. If the author wanted to make a point of men’s qualities then the articles without having any feminist input, then a women should not even come into the equation. Something like this:

    1. I love how a man sets goals and works hard to achieve those goals.

    2. I love how men constantly explore, research, and invent things to make society better than it is now.

    The statement above has no canotation to feminism and rape culture at all. Any feminist would come in here and make it a point that many women have the two qualities above as well, but that’s not the point. The point is the overwhelming majority of men are good without having to service women. This is inherent goodness, this is goodness that feminists/MRA/any other groups don’t have to teach men how to do, history as shown us that.

    What Neely put isn’t all bad, it just misses the point. She isn’t listening to what commenters like the one that posted “…the good men project inevitably implies that men are not basically good by default, but work has to be put in to making them that way, or in finding the exceptions who are,” are saying. She is ignoring it and trying to cover it up under the disguise of something else.

  • JFinn

    http://tpn.thepulsenetwork.com/Episodes.aspx?s=the-dating-pulse-with-nic-and-neely#video

    Another chilling episode of the Nic and Neely show. They make a lot of fun of newborn baby boys’ genitals being mutilated(adding a ‘fun’ visual.) When the issue of female circumcision was briefly broached – oh, you better believe the tone turned extremely serious. Neely correctly states that the common lies about medical benefits have been debunked while Nic passionately argues for newborn baby boy genital mutilation and filibusters with a ton of lies.

    • Morgri

      JFinn,

      I think I may be one of the few people who come to this site who don’t find anything wrong with male circumcission. Current, unbiased research, does show that circumcission has it’s benefits (i’m sure there are some downfalls as well), but I don’t think this has ever really been something that is somehow bad to men. That’s just my opinion, however.

      • JFinn

        Morgri,

        I respect your opinion. But why not let an 18 year old decide if he wants to sacrifice sexual pleasure and erectile dysfunction at his later years(both bad for men)for these supposed benefits?

        It is well documented that the myth that circumcised teenagers masturbate less was a big motivator to make this common. Furthermore, circumcision is big money in America, so I would love to research who is behind your unbiased sources. I know this makes me sound conspiracy theory-ey, but I can’t for the life of me understand the rush to not wait even 15 years for this. I don’t feel grateful that the risk of getting AIDS at 7 was lessened by half of a percent for me.

        Having said all that. The aspect of the video I have a problem with was poking a lot of fun the boy’s issue and getting really serious about the girl’s issue. All this was done while one of the hosts took the position that there are no benefits to male circumcision. Now, if you believed that, wouldn’t you be somewhat as horrified by it as you would by female circumcision? To those who claim that it isn’t the same: most female circumcisions cut ‘only’ a part of the clitoris. So, keeping that in mind, can we protest Sudanese circumcision while joking about Egyptian circumcision while posting videos of an Arby’s sandwich getting chopped(similarly to what they did in the video?)

        • Morgri

          Agreed with the last part the last paragraph.

          It’s fine to want to see evidence. Circinfo.net has some good unbiased (althougth mixed in with some unbiased) sources that you could read about. My trouble with your statement is that it implies that the research against circumcision is somehow better/ more unbiased that the research for it. It goes both ways, many of the sources listed on wikipedia’s page (my work computer blocks it) are studies that were headed up by anti-circumcision advocacy groups, thus research would represent an anti-circ. bias.

          I’m not saying that the research for circumcision that is against it is all unbiased or research for it is all unbiased, just that there really isn’t any middle ground on it. It’s sort of like Feminist and MRA fight between the two groups.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            Put it this way if you will.

            I never got ‘docked’ and am now in a position to make a choice about getting my foreskin chopped or not.

            Take a guess what my decision is and always will be ?

            Yep, same as a woman making the choice or not to have her clit hood snipped.

          • B.R. Merrick

            What more research do you need? The first three years of a baby’s life are a major part of the hardwiring process. Trauma gets hardwired into the brain along with everything else. Circumcision without anesthetic hardwires trauma into a male infant’s brain.

            http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm

            “Circumcision resulted in significantly higher levels of behavioral distress and blood cortisol levels than did the other procedures.”

            Tough shit, little man.

      • Whitney

        WTF! Either it’s wrong for both sexes or it’s OK for both.

        Is there any unbiased research for FGM? Anything that might even attempt to explore whether there are benefits to removing the clitoral hood?

        The whole premise is wrong!

        • Morgri

          I never said it was wrong for a women to have her clitoral hood snapped, that’s up to her. I realize this opinion may be unpopular here. I haven’t looked at FGM because I really don’t care about it. Circumcision was a more recent topic I got into because of the MRA’s distaste about, so I simply researched. Circumcision.org is a site that is extremely biased against circumcision, you can make the case that circinfo.net is extremely biased for it. Like it or not, there is evidence that shows circumcision is beneficial and there is evidence showing that it isn’t.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            Loss of nerve endings blunting sexual intimacy counts don’t you think ?

          • Whitney

            “I never said it was wrong for a women to have her clitoral hood snapped, that’s up to her.”

            How many baby boys had that choice?

          • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

            I don’t dispute that there are two sides of the debate.

            What you shouldn’t dispute is that circumcision is a permanent elective amputation of part of the male genitalia without the consent of that male.

            What also shouldn’t be in dispute is that there are an abundance of health problems including deformities, sexual dysfunction, and life long pain that result from circumcision that isn’t being discussed by anyone. Look at the site I posted and tell me if you’ve ever heard or seen anything like that? Many men have those problems and never know enough about it to get help.

            Why? Well let’s just say that when it comes to talking about female reproductive issues or male reproductive issues in the U.S. women always get more coverage.

            We’re all equal. It’s just that women are more equal.

      • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

        The medical benefits listed are spurious at best. For instance they claim it reduces yeast infections. Of course, if we cut off the labia of women that would also reduce yeast infections. We don’t do it. If we cut off the lips on your face you would also never get cold sores.

        The fact is that the foreskin is a useful and necessary part of the reproductive organ that protects the most sensitive area from damage. Amputating the foreskin because you “might” have an infection or you “might” not be keeping it clean is like cutting off your foot because you “might” get athlete’s foot or you might stub your toe some day.

        Add to this the FACT that the babies get no anesthetic and the procedure is terribly painful and traumatic.

        Further, you need to go online and look at the results of botch circumcisions. Very few people know about botched circumcisions and even men don’t realize that the pain and discomfort they feel is from their circumcision.

        http://www.circumstitions.com/Botched1.html

        When I first looked at this site I didn’t even know that my circumcision was botched. I knew that I had pain and that when I exercised I had discomfort and abrasion on the head of my penis. I had no idea it was from being circumcised. Most men don’t know this either. We aren’t allowed to know these things because male pain is expected. Only female pain is wrong.

        • Morgri

          Really, cause I was circumsized as a baby and I don’t remember squat, maybe I cried for a few seconds, maybe I didn’t. Point is, it’s like that ice cream bar I had 3 years ago, I don’t remember it at all. Sex is still extremely pleasurable for me, I have no trouble with sensitivity, and it’s already difficult to last as long as I’d like, I don’t think a little bit of extra sensation is going kill me.

          I have had no emotional scares from being circumsized. I will admit that I’ve thought about what it would be like to not be circumcized, but then I realize it’s like wondering what it would be like if I had a vagina, I’ll never know, who cares, get over it, enjoy what you got.

          Botched circumcisions happen like something bad happens with every other type of medical procedure in the book. I agree, it’s horrible and I’m sorry that it happened to you, but circumcission is one of the safest procedures if done by a medical professional. This isn’t to take away from people that have had the procedure go wrong, but generally this doesn’t happen.

          Again, I’m sorry that our opinions don’t line up, but such is life.

          • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

            About 100 babies die each year in the US from botched circumcisions. Is it worth it?

          • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

            Really, cause I was circumsized as a baby and I don’t remember squat, maybe I cried for a few seconds, maybe I didn’t.

            You don’t have to remember a traumatic event to be scarred by it.

            Sex is still extremely pleasurable for me, I have no trouble with sensitivity, and it’s already difficult to last as long as I’d like, I don’t think a little bit of extra sensation is going kill me.

            Congratulations. However, you have no baseline to compare your “pleasure” to. At any rate, you could just as easily been circumcised at twelve. Why would you advocate forcing this procedure on everyone just because it turned out OK for you?

            That’s like saying everyone should smoke crack because you didn’t get addicted. It’s solipsistic.

            I have had no emotional scares from being circumsized.

            You have no idea how different you might have been had you not be circumcised. The point isn’t about what might or might be. It’s about choice. I didn’t get a choice and I have to pay the price for it. I wouldn’t force that on anyone. Why would you?

            Botched circumcisions happen like something bad happens with every other type of medical procedure in the book. I agree, it’s horrible and I’m sorry that it happened to you, but circumcission is one of the safest procedures if done by a medical professional. This isn’t to take away from people that have had the procedure go wrong, but generally this doesn’t happen.

            Show me your data on this? I know of no studies on the rate of botched circumcisions. Most botched circumcisions go undiagnosed or are so permanent that doctors cannot fix the problem. In fact, it is rarely discussed even by doctors. What I do know is that if male infants weren’t circumcised there wouldn’t be any botched circumcisions at all.

            Again, I’m sorry that our opinions don’t line up, but such is life.

            Me too. Hopefully you’ll never be in a position of power to decide for everyone else.

          • Stu

            @Denis

            You’re right, all that money and affort…….and only 100 dead boys to show for it….surely there are more productive ways of killing men. :)

          • Stu

            Hey, why not just chop the whole cock off baby boys. Since they will never know what they are missing….that means it doesn’t matter right?

            Suppose we could apply the same mentality to any body part.

  • victorsvoice

    Guys… I posted the same comment above, so I’m sorry if this comes of as spam. I just want it to be seen.

    Please help me with downloading that hateful video before it magically disappears.

  • Paul Elam

    @ Neely,

    Thank you for your answers, although I have to point out that none of them were a response to the question I asked you. I did not infer romantic intent in your piece as much as entitlement. So be it, but you didn’t really answer.

    This frankly, leaves me with two possibilities. One, that you are dishonest. I tend to think that is not the case here, which leaves me with the other. You are unconscious. All the signs point in that direction.

    For instance, based on this limited contact, I know I could ask you about your statement, as follows:

    I love when a man waits patiently inside an elevator to let all the ladies out first.

    I could ask you why on earth in this day and age do you feel entitled to a sexually designated doorman? I could ask you to examine the privilege and entitlement reflected in this kind of statement. I could ask you what makes women deserve to be the first ones off the elevator while the men wait?

    I don’t think you would answer a single question honestly. Not because I think you to be a liar, but because I don’t think you could handle the cognitive dissonance. I don’t think you could cope with facing the idea that your “love: of this stuff is not only antiquated, but sexist and elitist. I think that facing all these questions, honesty and directly, would put you at odds with your self image, and that your self image will win that fight.

    So I think you would do what you have done here, which is to waltz around every question with obfuscations about your boyfriend and new love.

    Your appearance here rated a “C-” in my grade book. I think your heart is in the right place on one level, but on another your sense of entitlement is so entrenched it forces you to abandon reason and introspection whenever your ideas are held to scrutiny.

    And when your reason and introspection go on vacation, any self assessment you make about your expectations of men is useless.

    I hope you come back to your list in a few years, as you have had some time to mature and learn some more. Perhaps then you will see it for what it is, and then write something meaningful and truly loving about yourself, and about men.

    • Cumbria

      We (women) are stuck in the middle between the fairy tale fantasies and romantic notions we were raised with to women’s equal rights and all this crap the feminists are dishing out. The elevator thing is almost a quaint reminder of another time, an old-fashioned gesture which is slowly dying. Women cannot demand change and more power without expecting the men to do likewise. I, for one, am pissed about it. They should have left it alone. I think the world was a better place and most certainly the family was a happier one in my parent’s time. Just sayin….

      • Paul Elam

        I agree with you. Oh, that I had the power to squeeze toothpaste back in the tube.

        And the damned thing is, it would not require women to give up rights. We could have a fair society without exclusions. All we have to do is turn back that hands of time and abort every feminist fetus. :)

        • AntZ

          Not sure I would ever want to put that toothpaste back in the tube.

          Now that I know what (most) women think of men, I think all men should have been MGTOW long ago. Bearing the brunt of all suffering, pain, and death in return for recognition and/or respect holds little attraction to me now.

          The sooner men are individually and collectively free from all responsibility and duty towards women, the better.

          One day I might thank the hate mongers like Marcotte and Futrelle for making this difficult choice so much easier to make.

          • Paul Elam

            I am hard pressed to disagree with you on that. The old way clearly worked better for children, including the ones who looked like adults.

      • Kimski

        I think one of the biggest mistakes was letting lesbians take leading positions in feminism. The outcome were given as soon as that happened. Noone gives the opposition in a competition over the same thing a head start, and they have managed to completely cripple us in the process, by catering to womens childish fantasyworld of relationships, along with the enforcement of an unjust brand of equality.

        I used to like being old-fashioned in my gestures towards women, but when it became a demand, I wouldn’t do it even if I was beaten up with a baseball bat.Today, I wouldn’t do it if you held a gun to my head. And if I did, I would probably be shamed and scolded for it.

        • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

          Yes, the impact of the lesbian separatists–>radfems cannot be over appreciated.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/MRAGreatestHits MRA-GH

        The thing is our culture was changing anyway. Feminism just hijacked us all and took credit for things that they had no part in improving such as the science and technological advancements that have changed our existence so drastically and rapidly.

        I believe without feminism, women (and men for that matter) could have in fact ‘had it all’ so to speak or a hell of a lot closer than where feminism has taken them / us. In allowing feminazism to forsake men and boys for your supposed benefit, women have ultimately sacrificed themselves in the long run. Us & them was was never a good idea but it was a feminist idea and they are clinging to it. When entire populations of grass eaters and MGTOW have women and enablers shrieking and eventually perishing you should take it up with you feminazi slave masters.

        • Kimski

    • keyster

      I couldn’t get my dog to take a Red Pill. The vet suggested I wrap it in a piece of meat or cheese. Still no go. Eventually I just had to jam it down her throat with my finger. It was harsh, but there was no other way.

      • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

        While not my preferred route of administration, I believe pharmaceuticals delivered via enema enter the bloodstream more quickly.

        Red Pill Enema?

        http://bit.ly/wiNkJn

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

          My goodness woman !

          You are a filthy grubby depraved thing aren’t you hhmm ?

          • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

            Nope, just a pragmatist ;)

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            @ Dr. T

            Good answer, I have no smart ass comeback I’m afraid.

          • BeijaFlor

            Parm’ me, Ma’am, I’ve heard it called a lot of things – a bung-hole, for instance …

            This is the first time I’ve heard it called a “prag.”

            (Just for a laugh, mind you. God how I needed that laugh.)

        • Paul Elam

          I have contacted the company who produces “Fleet” and we have entered negotiations for a product called “Red Nozzle”

          Perhaps Ms. Steinberg would be interested in the clinical trial? :)

          • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

            Perfect. :)

            There’s a line from Woody Allen’s Manhattan Murder Mystery in which he quips, “There’s nothing wrong with you that can’t be cured with a little Prozac and a polo mallet.”

            Just replace Prozac with Red Pill.

          • Kimski

            Cool.
            Dr.T is a Woody Allen fan.

            Now I just got to find a video from Monty Python where they make fun of him, or something he’s done.
            I’ll bet there is one somewhere. ;)

          • Kimski

            @Dr.T:

            Found you this one. Enjoy.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T70-HTlKRXo

            Might not be in the surroundings he usually does it in, but it sure has a lot of ‘Woody’ in it.
            :)

        • Stu

          I reckon you’re just kinky :)

      • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

        Good thing it wasn’t a suppository.

  • scatmaster

    I managed to download episode 11:

    Who is Lorena Bobbit and Catherine Becker and what do they have in common? Nic and Neely has the 9 reasons to never cut off your partner’s penis.

    If anyone requires it just tell me how to upload a 50MG file to you and you can have it. It may disappear. As it has on You Tube and Keep Vid.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

      Good on you. I’ve been trying but have had no luck.

      How’d you do it ?

      • victorsvoice

        If you can’t find any software that downloads the videos directly, then I suggest that you work around that and record your own desktop instead. That’s what I did.

        Camtasia Studio works quite well.

        • Poester99

          Flashgot plugin in Mozilla

          http://flashgot.net/

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            Poester99 this is great ta. I use Mozilla only.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

          Ok Ta VV.

          A blokey lateral thinking work-around.

          My god listen to me will you, I’m sounding like a sexist missygiony.. I mean a mysoggee.. a mi… aww fuggit, you know what I mean.

      • scatmaster

        First I downloaded the below file

        http://www.internetdownloadmanager.com/

        Then I went to the website with the video on it using this link.

        http://cdn.livestream.com/embed/thepulsenetwork?layout=4&clip=pla_3f0789af-2e56-4198-a800-83e97ee5fbc2&height=640&width=385&autoPlay=false&mute=false

        I then clicked anywhere in the video window and in the bottom left hand corner an icon came up that said

        Download video from this page. Click the green arrow and away you go.

        See below:

        http://i.imgur.com/TB9jq.jpg

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

          Thank you Scatters, much appreciated.

          There’s more than a few times I have wondered about how to do this as opposed to the narrow choices available through The Youtube Downloader.

          • scatmaster

            Anytime my friend.

        • Rper1959

          ok have seen the video and its exactly the same as the Osborne and the other skanks on The View. Shame on you Neely , you disgust me, like , totally!

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/MRAGreatestHits MRA-GH

        Jaksta is very good.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

          Jaksta, thanks brother.

    • victorsvoice

      Did you get both parts?

      There’s a second part to the right in the relevant video section. It’s from the same episode. They list the nine reasons in that one while they just giggle and talk about Lorena Bobbit, etc. in the first one.

      • Kimski

        Yeah, the one in the upper right corner is the one I mentioned, scatmaster.

      • scatmaster

        I clicked the right arrow not the segment link.
        I downloaded all of Episode 9. Was there something I was missing?

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

      If you google ‘hjsplit’ you get a tiny utility that splits files into emailable sizes and then can be reconstructed from the receivers end.

    • Paul Elam

      Please hang on to it. Will be in contact. Thanks!

      • scatmaster

        Will do. As I mentioned it is a 50MG file.

      • scatmaster

        http://www.mediafire.com/?s0ms1e327nfbfwy

        Uploaded to Media Fire. It is a free account so may take awhile to download to your PC or Mac if you don’t have a paid account.

  • http://www.standyourground.com tonysprout

    neelysteinberg in reply to Tawil
    Interesting post. Joseph Campbell has a great quote that I have tried to live my life by: “Follow your bliss.”

    Curious: Do you think men aren’t all that interested in chivalry or romance anymore (or maybe they never were)? Do they feel that since men and women are now seen as equals chivalry and romance only exist to feed a woman’s ego?

    I think it’s a sad day when romance is gone. Maybe that’s what we’ve come to. I guess it depends, though, on how you define romance. I think men and women can romance each other, but I’ve heard men say that they show love and affection more by doing (as opposed to showing through talking, emoting). Obviously generalizing. Thoughts?

    Exactly as it should be. Equality is as..etc. Chivalry benefits ONLY women, supposedly as patriarchy benefited only men. They are different cheeks of the same ass. Feminists want to kill patriarchy, but keep the pedestal and chivalry. Methinks FRICKIN’ Not. You want to be sad about that. Hell, I’m sad about what feminists are doing to the patriarchy, but cry me no tears, and I will do the same for you. I, personally, refuse to allow women to have their cake and eat it too.

  • paddybrown

    Fuck.

    I’ve come to this discussion late, and as I read through it I was becoming cautiously optimistic about Steinberg, just as I’ve been cautiously optimistic that the Good Man Project was trying to reinvent itself since the whole Twitter furore thing. But this…

    She can’t even tell the difference between a song that sends up male stereotypes (which, incidentally, is taking the piss out of a hit song celebrating female entitlement) and laughing at actual real disfiguring violence actually inflicted against a real human being.

    It’s never been more clear that the Good Man Project is a false flag operation, and Steinberg is one of those women we’ve all known who suckers you into opening up with fake empathy before sticking the knife in where she now knows it’ll hurt the worst, just for kicks.

    Fuck you, Neely Steinberg.

    • andybob

      I was there at the beginning. After reading some of Ms Steinberg’s articles, it was clear that she is at odds with some of the man-hating excesses of feminism. I thought it would be worth our while to probe her further. Even allowing for the difficulty of confronting so much outraged opposition, I am disappointed. Ms Steinberg may have sucked the coating off the red pill with, but certainly hasn’t swallowed.

      A few words about the wishlist. I instantly dismissed it as entirely predictible. Take some advice from a gay man who has endured decades of women droning painfully on about Love and Relationships. Women are incapable of love – not as you and I understand it. For women, love is just a means to secure an easy life. It’s a trade-off for which they, and all their tattered baggage, are The Prize. They think they have men pegged out, yet they don’t have a clue.

      I no longer pity the lonely spinsters of my aquaintance. They don’t ‘get it’ and never will. Giving does not begin and end with opening your legs. They look enviously at my happy 14-year relationship and demand to know my secret. I don’t have any secrets. All I know is that being in a relationship does not entitle me to a damn thing from that person – and my partner believes exactly the same thing. Everything you receive from them is a gift. Easy.

      Ms Steinberg imbued her wishlist with a breathless schoolgirl quality which, combined with her heavily airbrushed gravatar, made me think she was barely out of her teens.

      She’s 34.

      She is also revealed as laughing publicly at the genital mutilation of men. Her apology is undermined by declaring our outrage as purse-lipped PC humourlessness. I think Dr Elam is correct in surmising that Ms Steinberg is a plausable individual who is beginning to question feminist hypocricy, but who has yet to fully grasp the extent of the radfem horror so apparent to AVFM commenters.

      Tom Snark issued a warning to me and Mr Primal not to get our hopes up about Ms Steinberg. He was entirely correct. He is now vindicated as a sage and experienced MRA. It certainly makes me appreciate the clear-eyed committment of Ms GirlWritesWhat, Dr Palmetier and our Izzey all the more. Ms Steinberg is a pale immitation of these blazing lights.

      • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

        Shit andybob, as Jade eloquently put it, I think I love you, man.

        “All I know is that being in a relationship does not entitle me to a damn thing from that person – and my partner believes exactly the same thing. Everything you receive from them is a gift. Easy.”

        Oh damn, is that the sound of the bitch rag industry imploding in obsolescence?

        You are donned, Sage.

        • andybob

          Thanks Mr Perseus, and a Happy New Year to you.

          Do you know who understands love in its purest sense? Izzey. Go to her blog and read her poems. Direct and unsentimental. It takes a lot to move a cynic like me, but Izzey’s best tears me up – damn it!

          Why is it so difficult for women to grasp that mutilating men isn’t funny? We shouldn’t have to explain it to them. They should just know – even Jeffrey Dahmer knew that mutilating humans was wrong. Even if Ms Steinberg had been a moronic sophomore caught up in some infantile fun-fem frenzy, there should still have been some moment of reflection. In typical style. this didn’t happen. She was none the wiser until an MRA ‘explained’ it to her. Pathetic.

          Ms Steinberg wants to understand why we are here. She should start by trying to comprehend that her raucous response to Catherine Becker’s crime was echoed in the mainstream media until the cackling became deafening. Celebrating blood-thirsty crimes is unacceptable. She needs to understand that we are weary of explaining that to women.

          The wishlist will come back to haunt Ms Steinberg. All of my lonely spinster aquaintances had them too. Some still have them…lining the kitty litter.

          • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

            Happy 2012 to you, my friend.

            I look out at the world through your eyes, and it is fascinating. The liberation is incredible. Stu is not fucking around when he calls you lucky. I’m digging down deep to see if I can find some gay inside me ;) Anything to get free from the bankruptcy of the vaginas.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            Mr Andrew Roberts I am here to unroll a papyrus scroll and deliver unto you this:

            Every one of your posts I read slowly because I go in telling myself I am going to really enjoy this one and it so happens I do.

            This bit, “Some still have them…lining the kitty litter.” I mean where the hell did that cricket ball come from ?

            I’m starting to think that you actually make this stuff up or something.

            Now before you reach for those rubber glasses used for emergency head expansion, I am coming to a point here and it comes with a caveat.

            Write a damned article you mean spirited selfish bastard.

            I mean look at you, you come here and spray your sublime and silky text and and exit left while the rest of us here are dazzled by the iridescence you leave in the atmos.

            Wassa matter with you mate, you some kind of a sado ? Now you know we know you know we’re a discerning lot, yet and at the same time you love watching us gobble your gossamer with wooden spoons that clack about with the frenetic blur of a scene from “Koyaanisqatsi.”

            You see, you’re time has come. Your card has been punched and while I’m at it the bell has rung.

            It’s time for an article.

            The caveat is nags, yes nags. No not horses, people nags… from myself to be sure.

            Now that we all know you know we think you’re a come hither go there bounder, it’s really only a matter of time before an article is produced by you.

            That’s right. You no submit article = me do nag post once a week.

            So the gauntlet is down and the curtain is up, and actually, I’m very interested in what you think of my caveat/nag/article/proposal thingy.

            See, I can’t even put it into words properly as I’m just so jolly cross and bothered about all this business with me and the scroll and everything. It’s not my style but someone had to do it.

            Bah !

            P.S.
            I’m going to repost this on a fresher article in case you miss it.

          • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

            @ Dr. F

            Wow Dr. F, you captured my thoughts exactly on this one. I was trying to think how to convince andybob to write, you’ve done it just right.

          • Kimski

            @Dr.F. & Andybob:

            “Every one of your posts I read slowly because I go in telling myself I am going to really enjoy this one and it so happens I do.”

            LOL! Funny. I do the exact same thing.

            “Write a damned article you mean spirited selfish bastard.”

            100% agreement from here.

            “That’s right. You no submit article = me do nag post once a week.”

            Consider that 3 nag posts a week, so you might as well get to it because I never forget a promise. I CAN make your life a living hell, Sir. :)

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            That’s right Perseus, he’s not getting away with it.

            Oh he can run and hide here and there on a staler post. Why he can even change his moniker and grav but we’ll crowbar him out.

            You hear that so called Mr Andrew Roberts ?

            Also Perseus, the nags will start as a gentle word and grow meaner and meaner.

            Pretty soon if this bounder still hasn’t delivered then the nags will be so viperous and exacting with swear words that googling his name will have your monitor sweating beads.

            Prob’ly.

    • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

      You made up for lost time brilliantly, Sir. The cavalry arrived blazing.

    • Red Bones

      Dude,same thing here. I didn’t read the part about how she laughed at Becker’s husband before I responded to her.I was thinking,damn, the boys are giving her a little bit of a rough time, she might not be all that bad-then BOOM- the whole fucking sham fell apart as I scrolled.

      I need to get a Red Pill refill or something, I keep getting suckered in.

      You guys are on the fucking ball. And let me tell you, I don’t accept her fake-ass apology. I’ll think about it if she starts a shelter for battered or homeless men and/or donates to male friendly causes for the next 20 years or so, but that killed it for me.

      Laughing about a man having his dick cut off and ground up in a machine for disposing of refuse…Jesus Fucking Christ.What the fuck is wrong with you,Neely?

      Even if you did nothing else questionable in your whole life, that one act was enough to justify everything everyone here said about you,and perhaps more.

  • http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

    “One thing is for sure. When something heavy needs lifting, Neely will be too busy watching the shape of your back to be getting on the other end and helping.”

    Very astute.

    Here’s another perspective on the dichotomy of masculist/feminist perceptions regarding WORK.

    Masculist perspective:

    And on the 8th day man invented tools,

    – to free himself from the drudgery of hard physical labor and advance civilization.

    Feminist perspective:

    And on the 8th day man invented tools,

    – to oppress, and enslave womankind with merely “tricksy” variations on all the work traditionally performed by women.

  • UKMan

    Wow…that was a gripping comment thread – and a slow-motion car crash from Steinberg’s point of view. I watched her video and it was as stomach churning as expected. I wonder if it would have been so amusing if her father/brother/son/boyfriend was the victim? I can’t understand how that sort of thing can be even vaguely amusing to anyone with genuine empathy; very weird.

    Funny how the modern man-hater’s soapbox of choice, the web, has actually become their sword of Damocles. I wonder how many of them are scurrying around like cockroaches, desperately trying to delete ‘anonymous’ forum postings and videos? Pathetic bunch.

  • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

    Neely–” It has nothing to do with viewing men as subservient in any way.”

    That may not have been your intent, but clearly most of your items involved loving a man for the way he serves you.

    Neely “I also have to wonder: Do men not enjoy making women happy? Does it not feed something inside of them?

    One might ask that same question of you. Not once did you mention in your list how you love serving him. Perhaps you should qualify that question about yourself before you ask it in others.

    That said, yes, I derive a great deal of pleasure and good feelings from giving something to a woman. Fixing her car, listening to her problems, or driving her to the hospital and waiting for her while she’s in surgery. The operative word here is “give”. However, most of the time women “expect” these things and still others are compulsory thanks to feminist inspired laws for which there is no female equivalent. A man can’t “give” something if it is taken from him. If he is not allowed to give it freely or to freely withhold it then it is not a gift.

    Neely: “I could say the same for women: that we enjoy giving a man we are in love with sexual pleasure before our own, because it makes a man happy and feel good, and to see that makes us happy. That’s just one example.”

    That’s one way of looking at it. However sex is a commodity that women often trade to get something else. The absence of the female orgasm is a small price to pay when you can get a man to pay your rent, take you shopping, make a car payment, etc. I’m sure you think you make love to your man because you genuinely love him and want to show him your affection and trust for him. But at the same time hasn’t there also been times you wanted him to do something that you thought he might resist or maybe you did something that he might be angry about and you had sex with him to get what you wanted? Maybe that isn’t you but I guarantee you many men here have fallen for this and it has cost us dearly.

    Occasionally, women accuse us of being misogynists. However, if a man falls for this “love con” and is deeply hurt by it then why shouldn’t we learn to hate or distrust women?

    Neely: “Re: a commenter upbraiding me for giving thanks to men who serve this country to protect us all. I was flat-out flabbergasted. I have been a strong supporter of the military (currently, and rightfully so, a volunteer profession). I’ve given money to different charities – Veterans of Foreign Wars, Homes for Troops, etc. Was I being upbraided for being a woman and saying that?”

    No. This statement is a red herring. Nowhere in your list were there words of thanks for military service. Your list was about romantic love and you said, “I love” a man in military service. To us that is like dangling a carrot before a horse because it makes military service a condition of receiving love. It says to young men that if you want a woman to love you you must be disposable; you must suffer the horrors of war to be worthy of love.

    At once you promote male disposability and perpetuate a culture that condones war, violence towards men, and the expenditure of male lives while at the same time being able to deny that women ever promote war or male disposability or violence committed on your behalf.

    Neely:“My coming here was not an example of being coy or manipulative. Hogwash.”

    I don’t think you possess the introspective skill to make an honest statement about your intentions of coming here. I do however notice a change in the tone of your words since you’ve arrived. Clearly you’ve learned quickly that the snarky anti-male tone that is tolerated on GMP will not be tolerated here. Is this change “manipulative”? No more so than a chameleon changing its color. Perhaps the better word is “adaptation”. When you return to GMP you will change back.

    Neely:“It was simply to set the record straight, to show that there are reasonable women out there who appreciate and love men (not for their utility to women), and see major flaws with feminist doctrine.”

    I haven’t read all your articles so I can’t judge the sincerity of this statement. I do however detect a general lack of understanding of the male condition as you continue to blunder around the issues. I liken it to the 1970’s when whites were still calling blacks, “boys” and “colored” and being surprised to find that these were offensive terms.

    I’ll give you points for at least trying.

    BTW, you may have missed the question that I asked or maybe I haven’t found the answer yet. Could you list some obligations that women have towards men that they cannot get out of doing?

    tx

    • justicer

      “Could you list some obligations that women have towards men that they cannot get out of doing? ”
      Answer: knitting the shroud, for after the guillotine.

  • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

    Neely:“If men have viewed and currently view marriage as a burden, shouldn’t they be thankful to feminism? “

    This is the kind of deliberate mischaracterization and “twisting” that belies your more diplomatic posts.

    What men find burdensome about marriage is that we are blamed for everything. No one ever says that a marriage failed because the wife didn’t make enough money, give enough support, or that she was an abusive harridan who emptied the checking accounts and made babies by other men. It’s ALWAYS MEN’S FAULT. Further, what is burdensome is the reduced property rights, limited parental rights, and diminished legal rights and NON-EXISTENT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS of men who must endure the divorce industry created by feminists.

    Neely:“From what I see, feminism has created a veritable sexual playground for men, no? It is now also socially acceptable for men to not marry, or to be single longer. “

    Just because men aren’t married doesn’t mean they’ve also escaped the burdens of marriage. Child support laws guarantee any woman who wants to make a baby and does it dishonestly will be guaranteed a portion of a man’s income for at least 20 years. Even women who rape boys can get child support with that child finally turns 18. That might seem like a playground to you but it sure isn’t for us. Add to this the fact that male birth control is still 100 years behind that of female b/c and the fact that males do not get equal parental rights unless they can afford to fight tooth and nail in court or the mother deigns to allow him equal access. What part of all this is a playground? And while we are telling the truth we both know that women are still pursuing and having sex with the same “alpha male” types they’ve always wanted. Men who aren’t good looking, socially skilled, or who are underemployed are living in a sexual wasteland and female competition for education and employment resources means they will continue to be shut of this so-called “playground”.

    Neely:“I do believe, though, that feminism and sexual libertinism has contributed to the breakdown of the family, and I see this as a real negative (for both men and women), especially for lower socioeconomic classes.”

    To be clear here, the destruction of the family is a stated goal of feminism. Sexual “libertinism” is merely one of the tools to achieve that.

  • Coldfire

    @neelysteinberg

    You said:

    “Marcotte was raped; another feminist I know was abandoned by her father when she was young – this makes it easier (but not necessarily right) to understand this anger.”

    Is it a proven fact that she was raped? By that I mean is there a police file or some other documentation that can be examined to verify her claim? If not, then perhaps you shouldn’t definitively say that she was raped.

    I was raped by a woman, by the way. I didn’t even know it was rape at the time thanks to being indoctrinated into thinking that rape was something only men could do and all the evidence of the crime was long gone by the time I learned otherwise, plus the perpetrator was living in another country. I’ve never felt the need to engage in the kind of bigotry towards the sex of my attacker that Marcotte engages in towards men, so ever if her claim is true it doesn’t make it easier to understand her anger towards men; not one iota.

    • keyster

      If a woman felt like at some point in her life she was coerced into having sex when she didn’t feel like it, then yes Marcotte by feminist definition was raped.

      • Alphabeta Supe

        @keyster

        If I were a new visitor to this site looking for MRA quotes, I could easily write “MRA’s accept new rape definition” after reading this comment, even though this was clearly not your meaning.

        MRA’s sometimes seem to endorse feminist doctrine through their own sarcastic verbiage, so I thought I might just sound a warning here. I hope this doesn’t offend.

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis
    • scatmaster
      • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

        What makes that 9 reasons hateful is that the nine reasons not to do it are because of the consequences to the woman and there is no mention that it is wrong to cruelly torture and mutilate another human being.

        And BTW Neely it’s not even acceptable to mutilate a man’s genitals for attempted rape or even rape. That’s just fucking stupid.

        • AndroMeda

          Jean,
          From ‘self-defense’ on Wikipedia, I get the feeling that one can justify any kind of bodily harm in the case of attempted rape.
          The use of the right of self-defense as a legal justification for the use of force in times of danger is available in many jurisdictions, but the interpretation varies widely. To be acquitted of any kind of physical harm-related crime (such as assault and battery and homicide) using the self-defense justification, one must prove legal provocation, meaning that one must prove that he was in a position in which not using self-defense would most likely lead to death or serious injuries. The threat of damage or loss of property alone is not enough

        • http://www.standyourground.com tonysprout

          So, Neelers, I guess mutilation of female genitals is purrrfectly ok when a teen age boy is being raped by an older woman? Allow me the use of excessive verbage. Both you and sharon osbourne should have a rat forced inside of you then be sewn up. There is no excuse for what I just saw, no apology is acceptable. You are a disgusting, low life, miserable, meat-bag. Please, just exit the planet.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

        Well done Scatters. Well done mate. :)

    • Atlas Reloaded

      Regarding the “9 reasons”: These. Two.Bithces.Are.Fucking…retarded.

      Actually , that whole thing smakced of sarcasm and mockery so excuse me: These two CUNTS are fucking retarded.

  • justicer

    Hope Miss Steinberg and her Agent don’t mind, but I’ve decided to adapt a portion of that List of things she loves about men:

    I love when a woman pushes a strand of her hair away from her face, tucking it obsessively behind her ear, when she’s been confronted by one of her fibs.

    I love when a woman puts her hand on the wrong end of the telescope and says she ‘still can’t see the point’ that her man is trying to make.

    I love how millions of women doctors go off work at 3:30 to drive to Day Care, while hundreds of patients suffer irreparable harm in their absence.

    I love when a woman allows a man to contribute to charity “as long as it doesn’t conflict with the Pink Ribbon.”

    I love when a man waits patiently inside an emptying elevator to let the cloud of perfume salted with estrogen escape.

    I love how a man would go to the ends of the earth to return all his wife’s ill-advised purchases.

    I love how a woman will rub peanut butter into her partner’s priceless, autographed NFL jersey, if he has just told her to lose weight.

    I love the men who so bravely and willingly risk their lives telling the truth to their mother-in-laws.

    I love being our Little Unattached Male.

    I love the way a woman runs into Bloomingdale’s like a maniac.

    I love the shape of a man’s big, strong back when he’s walking away from it all.

    I love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman calm down and just remain silent for a second.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

      Guffaw ! This is great :)

      “I love when a woman pushes a strand of her hair away from her face, tucking it obsessively behind her ear, when she’s been confronted by one of her fibs.”

      Now that got me going but when I got to this one:

      “I love how a woman will rub peanut butter into her partner’s priceless, autographed NFL jersey, if he has just told her to lose weight. ”

      I really laughed. It has something very focused about it and that made it even funnier, unfortunately.

      Was that one drawn from a memory bank Mr. Justicer ?

      • justicer

        Thanks, Dr. F., it’s nice to see you got a laugh.
        [EDIT] I just noticed your own work of art, ‘way above this post, and was very amused by it. Nicely done!
        It’s all a mixture of memory bank and horrified, lifelong observation.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

          Ta :)

          I am happy to report that none of my memory banks were used in my post there.

  • Whitney

    I swear that recruiters like Neely are like quibids.com. It’s a complete scam and can only go through the population once before the business model is dead (unless you’re a retard). Their business model cannot even get everyone because somebody they know has been scammed so I’d say once 2 in 5 men are scammed by the recruiters, everyone knows to stay away.

    • scatmaster

      Say it ain’t so Whitney, quibids.com is a “scam”!!!
      How will I ever get my $18.87 iPad?

      • Whitney

        Your lovely wife who respects and treats you like an equal will deliver it.

        • scatmaster

          LOL

  • http://mens-rights.blogspot.com/ Tom Snark

    Reposting this at the bottom of the thread in case it gets buried.

    I’ve written the text portion of Neely’s entry to register-her. I don’t have access to the videos though, nor can I create a pdf file, which is required. So, I’ve done most of the work here, anyone else who wants to can pick this up and add those couple of bits and pieces. Here you go:

    In an episode of ‘Nic and Neely’ entitled ‘Nic and Neely’s Newsroom: The Catherine Becker Case,’ Neely Steinberg and co-host Nicole Johnson can be witnessed laughing openly at a man who was drugged, tied up and sexually mutilated by his wife, Catherine Kieu Becker, because he asked for a divorce.

    A subsequent episode, entitled ‘9 Reasons To Never Cut Off Your Man’s Penis,’ suggests that women should not commit this crime, although the nine reasons given all have to do with what would be best for women – i.e. they might get arrested, it might impact upon their careers, or the man might end up getting famous (as did John Bobbit), which is not the desired outcome. Nowhere is the humanity, dignity or bodily integrity of men suggested as a reason for not mutilating men. It can be inferred that, if women did not fear reprisals in the form of legal punishment or professional sanctions, there would be no reason not to genitally mutilate men, in the opinions of the hosts.

    Another episode of ‘Nic and Neely’ deals with circumcision. While the hosts take an ultra-serious tone regarding female genital mutilation, declaring it wrong in all cases, male genital mutilation is treated lightly; the hosts make a lot of fun of newborn baby boys’ genitals being mutilated, adding a ‘fun’ visual. The conclusion of the piece is that while FGM is a serious matter and strictly wrong, MGM is something that is funny and should be supported.

    More recently, Neely Steinberg posted an article to the Good Men Project, in which she listed twenty things she loves about men. You would be forgiven, initially, for thinking that her list shows genuine and sincere appreciation and affection for men. On closer inspection, however, nearly every item on the list involves what men do for her to make her feel loved, or to make her life easier. Nowhere does she suggest an appreciation for men as they are, only for what they can do for her. Apparently, to be worthy of Neely Steinberg’s love, a man must be servile (rubbing her feet when he is more exhausted then she is), chivalrous (ladies first), and accepting of his subordinate role (working in a sewer or as cannon fodder).

    Much like the episode of ‘Nic and Neely’ entitled ‘9 Reasons To Never Cut Off Your Man’s Penis,’ this list makes it clear that men are valued purely according to their utility to women. The suggestion that men may possess positive qualities besides those which benefit women is not apparent anywhere.

    As childish as the list is, it is not the reason why Neely Steinberg is listed on register-her.com. The reason why she appears on here is the aforementioned videos, in which she apparently believes it acceptable to publicly belittle a man who has just been mutilated for life, and has had the very core of his masculinity, his future sex life, his health and well being, including psychological, all stolen from him in the most violent and grotesque way imaginable.

    The list of twenty reasons why she (ostensibly) loves men merely gives us insight into the way she views men. This issue was raised by Paul Elam at A Voice for Men, and Neely herself showed up in the comments section to defend her views. Although willing to apologise for the offence caused by giggling over the thought of men being mutilated, she did not appear to grasp the reason why this might be considered offensive by men; going so far as to suggest that the problem actually lies with men for being horrified at a brutal sexual mutilation. It seems clear that whatever ‘love’ Neely believes she has for men is not easily recognisable as ‘love’ in any genuine sense of the word.

    “We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
    – Neely Steinberg on male genital mutilation

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

      Tom.

      Done, where do I email it to ? Here’s my email
      mra.effdoff@gmail.com

    • Paul Elam

      Thank you Dr. Snark. I will work with JTO on getting the rest of the info and posting it.

      Also, good to see your incisive pen at work here again. :)

    • scatmaster

      Maybe the third time is a charm.

      Both uploaded to media fire for your use.

      http://www.mediafire.com/?0lid4c09tz11o6u

      http://www.mediafire.com/?s0ms1e327nfbfwy

      will someone in charge let me know if these are usable for our purposes or am I wasting my time repeatedly posting these links for people who say they do not have them. Oh, and no Snark intended. Just asking that is all. Hell, I will post them everyday for the rest of my life if required just need to know.

  • Primal

    Thanks to everyone here (who were wiser than I was) for showing us all how to detect impostors, to pull up the history, and to get the job done.

  • Paul Elam

    This is the longest thread, ever, on AVfM. It is not because Neely Steinberg is interesting or important. What she did do, however, was to kind of create the perfect storm for an intense discussion of male utility and disposability, the core of which, of course, is the root of all our problems.

    A secondary benefit was the gravy provided when we see that at the very heart, those who see men in terms of utility also betray an utter lack of sensitivity or empathy regarding their lives and problems.

    Neely has 20 things she loves about men, but at the end of the day when one of us is sexually disfigured, its a hoot for her. All the articles she could write in a lifetime about the wrong headedness of people like Marcotte and Schwyzer will not change the fact that she is much more like them than us.

    She is just in competition with them for our loyalty; a loyalty she no less takes for granted than the worst of them.

    • scatmaster

      I would like to say that I wasn’t fooled but I did have some doubts when others took her at face value. That has to do with me I suspect but in the back of my mind I didn’t believe her and I think the red pill may have finally come to full effect. I still did not have the confidence to speak out about my suspicions but I am getting there. Oh, by the way I ingested my red pill orally.

      • OneHundredPercentCotton

        I presumed she was simply coming from a position of ignorance. I too had my ass handed to me when I first started posting on a MRM site. I thought they were being hateful jerks until I had a few conversations about it with my sons. My sons weren’t harsh or angry with me, but opened the door a tiny crack to allow a small glimpse into the part of their lives I was completely oblivious to.

        I was gob smacked by what little I knew about men, men’s lives, and men’s perspectives even though my entire life I have lived with men and raised sons. I thought I knew every aspect of their lives only to find I knew nothing.

        I thought Neeley, coming from a place of respect and love, would be making this discovery as well, and was beginning to wonder why it was taking her so long.

        I see now she was coming from a place of mockery, disrespect and scorn. She’s all tra -la-la with a new love for now, but as it’s been pointed out, that will revert back to disrespect, mockery and scorn once the new wears off.

        You may not believe this, even now it’s not so much women’s voices that are STILL being heard, but men’s.

        Men voices silently telling women “You don’t need to see, hear, or feel the harsh realities of life. I will shield and protect you from them”. You don’t need to be responsible for keeping the peace, fighting the wars, mopping up the blood. I will shield and protect you from that”. “You do not need to break your back, work your life away, die painfully young with your body broken, your hopes wishes and dreams placed second to those you love and take responsibility for. That’s my burden to shoulder”.

        “You can run and play, throw tantrums, accusations, lies and insults. Your appreciation and respect is not a requirement for my loyalty and protection. I’ll continue to be a man, be a sport, do the right and noble thing because that’s just what men do.”

        I’ll have to find the source of that quote from a woman who also had such a glimpse into the male life. “I wouldn’t last 5 minutes”.

        • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

          Fuck.
          I need a tissue.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

          OneHundredPercentCotton you’re a bit of alright you are.

          Your sons I am sure are very happy to be related to you broadly speaking.

        • Whitney

          She’ll go back into her echo chamber and write some more. This time it might be about how we attacked her and “threatened her with death” (pushing up daisies).

          • Kimski

            We seem to be on the same page about Neely, and it’s a damn shame if she chooses that option. She was given a fair warning by Paul from the start, when he mentioned ‘the roughest crowd around’, but chose to stay on anyway. That unfortunately led to a revealing of some rather nasty character traits when some of the guys started digging in her past, but none the less she still has an option left do redeem herself. A letter of apology on her GMP blog, and a total turn around in her men related articles from now on would bring her far in my book.
            But as I mentioned in my entry to OHPC, most women prefer to live on in denial and ignorant bliss when the doorway to a man’s world has been opened to them, and I sadly suspect she’ll chose to do the same. It seems as much they don’t WANT to have a clue, as the fact that they don’t HAVE one.

          • OneHundredPercentCotton

            It’s official, she’s won the coveted bingo jack pot “I’M A VICTIM! MEN ARE MEAN!” sainthood award.

            Time to return to the fold and show off her newly minted wings.

        • Kimski

          @OHPC:

          You may be between a handful of women I’ve met in my entire life, who actually seems to get it. I salute you. It, in itself, must be just as shocking an experience to women, as taking the red pill is for men.
          My respect goes to you for still being here. Not many women choose to do so, once the door has been opened, and would rather live on in blissful denial and ignorance.

          “I wouldn’t last 5 minutes”.

          I think I used the exact same words in one of my countless attempts to convince td9red about all of the above, but you said it so infinitely much better. And very few women would. The chances for sugar and spice in a everyday mans life, are as slim as finding a rare gem in a box of serial, and mostly comes from watching the world through a happy wifes eyes, or in his childrens eyes. And most women are not happy nowadays, and the children grow up in a single parent household.
          Quite obviously somebody needs to grow up, when 2/3 are suffering from the choices of 1/3. Choices that does not even seem to make that 1/3 happy.

        • Alphabeta Supe

          @onehundredpercentcotton

          This comment reflects the plain truth of the matter. This ain’t cotton, it’s gold.

    • B.R. Merrick

      This is the longest thread, ever, on AVfM. It is not because Neely Steinberg is interesting or important.

      Ha HAAA ha-ha-ha-ha!

      :)

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

        Ah Mr Merrick there you are.

        You asked me “Frmki loop mikamika ?” recently and the answer is ‘yes’, or as said in my language quite simply as, “Elsarib vol toknowgian, sreet droot arl bingfloit alterstop magarving bloik bloik.”

    • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

      Speaking of this being the longest thread ever. . . do you think we can get a counter for each post as well as a date and time it was posted? When threads get really long and there are lots of replies it gets really hard to keep your place in the conversation and eventually things get really muddled.

      That said you are right on about Neely. She couldn’t help but show how selfish and bigoted she really is and all the while protesting that she loves men. When a woman is so out of touch with reality, when she lacks empathy and cannot see past her own privilege it’s really frustrating. But when I see this again and again with women it really makes me think the world if fucked up beyond repair.

      I realize it is sometimes hard to move away from a long held believe, but when you look at the systemic inequities or our society and how they harm men; when a comparison is so lopsided it shouldn’t be so hard to budge just a little. This is why men go their own way. Women are simply unsuitable as life partners. Their sense of entitlement means they can never offer anything else other than sex and frankly even that isn’t worth the effort anymore.

      Edit: After posting I saw that I’m not the only one who would like a few more features. That’s good.

  • justicer

    OneHundredPercent, I really like your post above.
    I have a request for those who run this website:
    – Is it possible to date the various blog entries?
    – Is it possible to time-stamp and date the various posts?
    Since this isn’t a commercial news site, I can’t see the harm in admitting that someone wrote something a few days ago, or even weeks ago, and the benefits are considerable.

    • Whitney

      Especially since the reply buttons have created non-linear posting. When I come back to a page I cannot easily tell which posts are newer and which were there before I hit the refresh button.

      BTW, the articles are dated in the byline at the top right.

      • justicer

        thanks for that, Whitney. My elderly eyes report to me very unfaithfully.

  • justicer

    Oh on that other issue, whether Neely should be allowed to post in here, we will all have taken various stands.
    A staunch libertarian, I’d err on the side of openness. A bit of contrarian text is a good goad to clarity.
    On the other hand, we can’t allow trolls to gum up the discussion, if the majority view them as trolls.
    A troll being defined, roughly, as a poster who is a provocateur, and only that; who baits other posters into saying things they want to attack; and who deliberately avoids dealing with questions put to her– as Paul has pointed out.
    Ms Steinberg is a lightweight and a flippant and condescending feminist (all tautologies). I’m not sure she was in here to be a provocateur; it’s her cemented-in feminism that renders her intellectually null. She has birth-related deficits (absence of Y chromosome; estrogenic intoxication; genetic avoidance urge) and might need a brain transplant. However, if she does become a real troll, just not answering her provocations would work best.

    • Kimski

      I agree.
      She would have to put her money where her mouth is, when she claims interest in men’s issues. I don’t want to read or hear about them from a feminist standpoint.
      I want the truth.

  • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

    In my mind she was only asking for information to use as ammo later on. That’s what women do. They claim to care about your feelings and insist that you open up and when you do they judge you and throw a fit and if they don’t do it right away then some day down the road they’ll be pissed and out comes all your secrets in one big furious rant which includes dish throwing and “thing” breaking.

    The reason men lie is because women make it unsafe to tell the truth. Women only want the “truth” if it’s what they want to hear.

    • Primal

      I’d like some more people to keep pulling on this thread…that is trying to understand why Neely decided to jump into the lion’s den in the first place…and to stay in it so long. Her ‘courage’ is very curious. So is her willingness to get beaten on repeatedly without ever engaging sincerely. This kind of masochistic conduct is counterintuitive but she sure had SOME serious reasons for volunteering as the pin cushion here. Is ‘information to use as ammunition later on’ the only good assumption or are there are others that fit in the puzzle too?

      Since there will be more like her in the future, I’d love to hear some more conjecture on her intentions. Of course, if she is still able to post here, SHE is welcome to tell us her true intentions directly but that isn’t likely given the loathsome little girl games she’s been playing so far.

      • Just1X

        I’ve spent too much of my life trying to understand wimminz’ ‘thinking’. Just judge them by what they do.

        Same as tediousRed, this one ignores whatever she feels like. Ban ‘em both and ignore them ’til it happens.

        If they were really worried about injustice to men, they’ve got enough evidence to be doing something about it for the rest of their lives. In fact they’re just playing little grrrrl games, masturbating themselves whilst wasting your time (not mine, I don’t bother with them).

        My hat is off to the real women here, including Dr T, Izzey, Typhon, 100% etc. These two? Ban ‘em

        • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

          I’m not for banning anyone including feminist trolls. Let them come and say what they want. It makes us better at recognizing and dealing with their bizarre behavior. I think it’s very therapeutic to pile on someone like Neely and tell her exactly what we think. We sure can’t do that on GMP or other feminists sites.

          Let them all come. There is no one to protect them here. After posting in their cloistered feminist echo chambers they are such easy targets. Who knows; when they run away to lick their wounds maybe some of it will sink in.

          • Just1X

            I agree that they never win, but look how much time people wasted posting to tediousRed.

            As soon as you see a man make the statement about a wimminz ignoring a question, it’s time for ‘her’ to leave.

            You can’t have an honest debate with a dishonest trolling wimminz (an oxymoron, I admit).

          • Primal

            I’m fine with banning trolls as long as the criteria are stated beforehand, the troll is given fair warning, and the troll is told why he or she is to be banned.

        • td9red

          “You can’t have an honest debate with a dishonest trolling wimminz (an oxymoron, I admit).”

          You can’t have a fair debate when the other team is composed of one person. It hard to keep up. It’s not about ignoring questions/topics.

          That’s why in every team sport you earn a penalty when there is an extra man on the field…

          • justicer

            The question raised here by TD is important enough to warrant ignoring that it came from TD in the first place.

            – Is it a ‘fair debate’ when one or two feminists on a masculinist site face off against “all those men”?

            A: Actually, advantage is in the court of TD and her girlfriends. Let’s call it the power in the dock, and it’s a principle of rhetorical theory: One voice in a debate, to which all questions are being addressed, is the holder of the power…theoretically. If Wingtips and TD were part of a flood of contrarians, still less, trolls, no-one would even read their posts. In fact, a troll has to be alone to do her dirty work properly.
            Secondly, women have a long and dirty history of drowning out the opposite side in debates. Look at any debate on any news channel; if women are involved, they cut the men off consistently and speak over them.
            Thirdly, men don’t aggressively pursue their speaking rights, certainly not on TV. Male t.v. hosts and male debaters would be regarded as unchivalrous and “abusive,” while the abusing female regards herself as “yelling because women have been silenced and so I have the right to prevent any man from saying what he has to say.”
            All in all, society condones the abuse of reason and discourse by women.
            Finally, let me opine that, on the face of it, I didn’t find Wingtip particularly dishonest and troll-like. Though we’re tired of being shouted at by females, perhaps we should have first answered her rationally and reasonably and then let her get angry, if that was what she’d wanted to do in the first place.
            [edit] Oh, and yes, it’s obvious that our feminist interlopers are gathering raw materials for some document they’re assembling. This material will be greeted by angry sighs and ritual bobs of the head (bobbleheading) by its cult readership.

          • OneHundredPercentCotton

            How do you propose the playing field be leveled for ya, red?

            Smash the boy’s club? Ban men from having MRA discussions without FORCING them into “equality” by allowing you to have final say?

            You can have your say all you want by going to any one of hundreds and hundreds of man bashing sites where you would already have been banned by now for saying anything favorable about males?

            Go enjoy yourself on Huffingpost – there are NO “extra” men on the field – there are no men’s voices on the field at all.

            You’ll love it there. I’ve already been banned so you won’t have to ignore me.

          • td9red

            Cotton, 100%

            I completely respect that this site is a place where men can come to speak their mind, even if that envolves some women bashing. Out of respect for that I have posted infrequently for the last few days and will continue to keep my opinions mostly to myself. Just read the articles.

            I don’t seek to bash men. If you think I’m a man basher those feminist sites that banned you, put you out quickly, such that you didn’t get the true flavor for what is said. I clearly, recognize that men face a huge number of obstacles to the freedoms that they are entitled to. This includes: bad and discriminatory legislation which locks men up for doing nothing, keeps them from their children, transfers their stuff to their ex; also they face unfair treatment in the media and at work; and a lack of respect for their feelings. These things are legitimate. But, the rest of it: women don’t love men, don’t empathize with men, are full-sized children, only seek to use men, irresponsible, bad, bad, bad…. Absolute bullshit! If a mother will not permit her children to have a relationship with their father, it’s b/c she is a BAD person. It has nothing to do with the organ b/t her legs. Its the organ in her head that is the problem. There are bad people out their and it has nothing to do with their given sex organ. This gender war which will destroy us is such bullshit. Many of the reasons behind mysogny and mysandry have nothing to do with gender. Its just bad people.

            Cotton, you mentioned in one of your posts today that women who support men’s rights, women who have woken up are viewed as traitors to their sex. Not the case. You only become a traitor to you sex when you start spewing the same anti-women bullshit that the guys want you to say. You can be supportive of men’s rights without that shit. Don’t you know that if someone will only be your friend if you insult your sister, they’re not really your friend. I say, I’m with you when your right. I’ll fight for you when you’re right. But, if I can only be your friend, if I agree to bash my sister. Fuck you

          • OneHundredPercentCotton

            I see you are no longer ignoring me, red

            My suggestion for “leveling the playing field” is to not worry about how many are on the field, but by playing by the rules.

            If you don’t, why would you expect others to?

            You are lobbing out generalities without addressing exactly WHY they are not true, or you are being coy with the truth.

            Let’s start with a woman who does not allow a father to see his children is a bad person, indeed. A LARGE number of women LEGALLY not allowing fathers to see their children is no longer just one bad woman. An over whelming number of women being so morally bankrupt they would take unfair advantage of laws depriving their children from their fathers is no longer just one bad woman. The VAST MAJORITY of women who vote for those laws, support those laws, keep silent about the horrific damage those laws inflict( even though they may not be the one directly doing it they like knowing it CAN be done if they choose) is no longer just one bad woman.

            Men complaining about it are not “bashing women”.

            Women complaining about it are not sucking up, trying to make “friends” or being men’s mouthpieces. I’m a grandmother who didn’t even know my Grandson’s last name until I saw it on a court document. I’m a Grandmother who was only allowed to see my Grandson once – and THAT was just so the mother could claim in court she wasn’t keeping him from his father.

            Two people get drunk, have sex and only the man is LEGALLY responsible? A middle aged woman has sex with a middle school aged boy and HE, an underaged boy, is LEGALLY forced to pay child support to her? No prison, no registry requirement because she’s “troubled”? Women making false rape or DV accusations for vengeance, to avoid deployment,avoid getting fired for being late, or not paying cab fares is being ADULT? It’s NOT being treated like an over grown child?

            .

            The ball is in your court, red, and the playing field is as level as it gets.

            Let’s hear what you got to say.

          • Skeptic

            100%Cotton,

            After decades of being put down, used and hurt by more women than many of us men can care to recall, and seeing women en masse vote for self privilege whilst ignoring men’s issues I think western men have a right to treat western women with due suspicion that they are bad female persons until they prove otherwise.
            Sorry, it’s come to that but there it is, and it seems fair to me.
            I don’t buy into red’s playing the victim on this issue.
            If she thinks having a vagina means I should automatically trust her after what I’ve been through these last decades then she’s sadly mistaken and being terribly narcissistic.
            Also the woman /person dichotomy is sidetracking.
            Let’s put it another way whilst playing her silly pedantic game – based upon decades of life experience I think most western women I’ve met are bad female persons. I also think I know of many thousands of men (and a few women) who think the same way.
            In addition she’s playing the old ‘can you provide evidence that……blah blah?’ whilst at the same time throwing out opinions of her own which she provides absolutely no evidence for. That’s a terribly condescending way to treat anyone.
            She’s deep in denial and simply needs to explore the www to find overwhelming anecdotal evidence from men blogging in addition to well researched articles and books that point up western women’s privileged status and indifference to men’s issues.It really is a no brainer which shouldn’t need to be debated here of all places.
            I’ve provided her with link to get her started, but feel loath to go down that road again as I got no thanks whatsoever for doing so. Another sign of disrespect for males who she appears to take for granted.
            Besides which spoonfeeding her with links is only encouraging her to be intellectually lazy and reverting to being chivalrous which is not on the cards as far as I’m concerned these days.

            One last thing for now, I appreciate your respectful supportive input here, but red needs to understand this is ‘a Voice for Men’ website, not ‘a voice for disrespectful men baiting feminists’ website.

          • td9red

            Cotton, 100%

            You’re correct I did make a general statement. Guess I think I shouldn’t have to prove that having a vagina doesn’t make you BAD.

            “A large number of women are legally not allowing fathers to see their children.”

            -A large number of fathers don’t pay their child support.
            – Men kill their domestic partners nearly twice as often as women do (from an article on the SAVE website); and men commit far more crime than women generally.

            Do these facts mean that men are bad? No, men who kill their domestic partners are bad people. There are a whole lot of bad people out there. I believe the family court system encourages women to keep their children from their partners. Additionally, so few fathers actually have sole custody of their children that it is hard to tell if they are keeping the children from their mothers just as often.

            You suggest that an “OVERWHELMING” number of women keep their children from their fathers. Can you provide some support for such a strong statement? In most divorces child custody arrangements are agreed to by the divorcing spouses without litigation.

            “The vast majority of women voted for those laws…” Come on Cotton. You live in the US. When is the last time you actually cast a vote for or against a law in your state? You voted for a Dem, Rep, or other. That person went off to the state Capitol and no one paid any attention to what they did once they got there unless it involved more taxes. Furthermore, whether you cast a vote for a Dem or a Rep the end result who likely be the same. The Dems and Reps only disagree on the really sexy issues.

            Cotton – the girl that is keeping you from your grandchild is a bad person who doesn’t understand that her child will benefit from having its father and his family in the child’s life. She doesn’t even realize that she would be helping herself by encouraging a relationship with your family. If she would let you in, she could use you as an ER babysitter one day. It has nothing to do with her vagina.

            The last paragraph addresses legitimate issues, all of which can be cured, or at least addressed, by appropriate legislation. These types of complaints are real. Women who make false rape charges should be prosecuted. (Note – As I indicated at some time previously only a small number of women make false rape charges. <~~~ EVEN many MRA sites admit this fact. There are several articles on the angryharry site that discuss this issue and suggest that only a small number of women make false rape claims. It’s unfair to blame the lot of women for this few). Drunk sex – I don’t have the answer to this one. Not many do. I suggest that the main problem is a lack of understanding and communication with the opposite sex.

          • justicer

            Bullshit, Td.
            Elsewhere on this site, I detailed the story of a man who politely complained about misbehavior, committed by a lesbian neighbor. Said lesbian neighbor then called the municipal police to say she was being “criminally harassed” — in fact, she was doing the harassment. Without batting an eyelash, cops showed up in uniform to grill the man about his “harassing” of the lesbian; it was only because he was articulate and had documented her abuse, and his own self-defense, that they left without laying charges.
            In normal societies prior to 1980, the lying female, a false-accuser, would have been charged with public mischief, a serious offense; in this case, she was able to manipulate the police into allowing her to continue to harass her neighbor, no questions asked.
            We call this systemic bias against all males, on behalf of anything that looks vaguely female, by armed, uniformed officers of the Law.
            Your flippant remarks about custody are disingenuous. What you are, TD, is an apologist for the status quo, which means, a measured advocate for the advancing reign of terror that feminist lobbies have instigated against the male populations of civilized countries– because men have been too polite to object.

          • OneHundredPercentCotton

            As expected, Red, my post went right over your head.

            Enough of the Vagina Monologues, please! I haven’t had dinner yet!

            We can yammer back and forth from here to eternity, which I don’t find worth my while.

            For now how about agreeing to a few ground rules?

            I’m not going to argue about who’s “bashing” who. Legitimate anger is not about “bashing”.

            Men are not LEGALLY allowed to harm women. Women are LEGALLY allowed to harm men.

            THAT’S A PROBLEM.

            I purposefully used the word LEGAL enough times to convey the message that women are LEGALLY allowed to literally get away with murder, while men are LEGALLY responsible for EVERYthing.

            Men are not LEGALLY allowed to refuse to pay child support. T/F? Women proportionately refuse to pay child support more than men. Has nothing to do with sex organ bashing and EVERYTHING to do with entitlement.

            Men are not LEGALLY allowed to murder their partners, or anyone else for that matter. Women literally get away with murder AT WHIM. “I was abbbbuuuussseeedddd!” Three simple words, and it’s case closed.

            Men are not LEGALLY allowed to rape or molest children. Men who break that law are harshly and severely punished THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. Women who break that law are rarely punished or lightly punished.

            It’s RARE, but when men make false rape accusations they are severely punished because it’s ILLEGAL. When women make false rape accusations, women’s groups rise up to defend them as in the Duke LaCrosse, DSK and Hofstra cases.

            They RUIN men’s lives and aren’t even reprimanded, much less prosecuted.

            NO MRA site states that false rape accusations are rare. They cite the McDowell and Kanin studies that show anywhere from half to 80% of accusation are false. False rape accusations are NOT rare.

            I challenge you to provide me ONE example where men are LEGALLY entitled to harm women, LEGALLY entitled to force women into servitude, LEGALLY allowed any advantage denied women.

            Just for the record – the girl who won’t allow my son to see his child is just doing what her mother taught her. Like her mother, she’s having babies with men she doesn’t even know to collect child support. There’s an entire culture of women who do this, the Single Mommy cultists, they’ve got the legal system wired and an elaborate “family” system with “Godparents” and all her guurls to help babysit and raise him – until the new puppy aspect wears off, anyway. The kid has everything…except a father.

          • OneHundredPercentCotton

            Thank you, Skeptic.

            Trust me – I KNEW she was going to take that route.

            She claims to respect this site is a men’s site, then complains it’s not a level playing field.

            I realize were are both (uninvited) guests, and I appreciate being allowed to post. There are simply NO women’s sites that allow such repartee for women who support men’s rights.

            I think most women have the complacement notion that other women support the status quo. It’s nice to see others here who don’t. I can only hope other women take notice, find their voices, and start taking a strong stand against this injustice as well – for the sake of their sons, and all men.

          • td9red

            Cotton, 100%

            This is going nowhere. No one will ever make me hate myself or my sisters simply b/c they have a vagina and no one will ever make you see that your daughter, you, me are not bad just b/c we have vaginas.

            Your posts go over my head b/c your brain is 11% to 12% larger than mine. I do hope you can somehow improve your reading and comprehension skills, however. Than I can stop repeating what I have already said.

            LEGALLY
            Cotton, I mentioned in the prior post that there are legit LEGAL problems. That men have a real and honest gripe when complaining about unfair LAWS and unfair treatment under the LAWS; that LEGISLATION is needed to correct these problems. Clearly, you missed that.

            As to the false rape accusations. Go back and read what I wrote. Than reread your “interpretation” of what I wrote. It should become clear to you where you went off track. Than read the article below. http://www.angryharry.com/esrapeillusion.htm?note
            Remember we were talking about whether women were inherently bad and you suggested, well a LARGE number of women do this or that so that suggests the whole lot is bad…. When you read the article it will become clear that the same small group of crazy women make false rape claims over and over again.

            Yes, there is a large segment of the population that has baby after baby with a number of different men. And, it is a vicious cycle from mother to daughter and on and on. A lot of us do what our parents did. Didn’t you say your daughter is a SAHM… If I am one day blessed with a daughter I hope to interest her in going to med school.

          • OneHundredPercentCotton

            So it’s back to your vagina yet again, red? You DO realize I am not a man? Your body parts are neither interesting or relevant to the conversation.

            No where on this thread, or any other that I’ve encountered, have I found HATRED of women being promoted – except, falsely, by you.

            I DO see there is tremendous rage toward INJUSTICE – except by you.

            I think the rage is justified.

            Why don’t you? Because YOU benefit richly from it.
            ________________________________________
            Here’s an excerpt from the AngryHarry article you posted:

            “So, given this prevailing attitude towards men, why on Earth should men nowadays be concerned about women being ‘raped’?

            Thus, when a woman writes to me and complains about my publicising of false allegations, thus demonstrating her total lack of concern for men who have to suffer from the consequences of such things, then why should I be concerned about her ever being raped?

            such a woman is very likely to be a false accuser herself

            Furthermore, of course, such a woman is very likely to be a false accuser herself – because, quite clearly, she has no concern for men who are falsely accused.

            Perhaps she does not want people to talk about false allegations because she, herself, might wish to make one.

            Clearly, she does not care about men having to deal with false accusations, and so she, herself, is very likely to be a false accuser – whenever it suits her.

            After all, in her mind, she is doing nothing particularly wrong.

            She does not care about the plight of falsely accused men.
            _____________________________________________

            How did you get “only 1% of women make false accusations so men have nothing to be pissed off about” out of that that article?

            Men take rape accusations VERY seriously. Just look at any comments sections after a rape is alleged, men will be offering to shoot, castrate, hang or burn at the stake any man accused – without even considering he might be innocent.

            When Crystal Mangum falsely accused the Duke LaCrosse team of rape, it’s true. She was “just” one lying woman.

            …except hundreds of thousands of women rushed to defend her, make excuses for her, insisted she was telling the truth and publicly paraded the innocent men as rapists.

            The state went into full witch hunt mode to convict those innocent men to appease the hundreds of thousands of women echoing the false rape accusation, going so far as to alter and withhold evidence.

            If those young men had not come from families that afforded the FIVE MILLION DOLLARS to save their sons from a false rape accusation THEY WOULD BE IN PRISON TODAY.

            You see, red. It wasn’t just one lying woman. It was an entire nation of women who convicted those innocent young men in the press without even knowing the facts.

            When she was not even prosecuted for all the hell she put those men and their families through, it sent a message to every young man in this country: YOU ARE NEXT. YOUR ARE EXPENDABLE. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO JUSTICE IF YOU ARE MALE.

            It’s not “hating women” to be pissed off about it. It’s not “hating women” to realizing how much the legal system has ensnared men at the behest of women.

            I thought you already stated you had a daughter, red. AND a son. And you were an attorney.

            Shuck and jive. Obfuscate and lie. Is it REALLY “woman bashing” to call you on it?

            I

          • justicer

            td-red, about this baby-making scam that Cotton describes as she enumerates female deviant behaviors.
            The perpetrator (of the false accusation) I described in my post above is collecting welfare checks for babies she somehow won custody over, don’t ask how. No, I don’t think any male is supervising this scam. No, I don’t see any Child Protection officer worrying about the various harms that may come to these children. No, she did not experience any difficulty in abusing the justice system, either.
            And no, this is not “human” deviance, it’s female deviance. Sure, males have negative impulses they will always be fighting; however, Saint Female is as phony a construct as the Noble Aryan of the Third Reich.

        • Primal

          Oh, I’m judging em alright. I really really hate to get taken by loathsome little girls like these. By understanding their intentions, I hope to be able to cut em off at the pass next time.

      • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

        I remember a while back either on this site or Glennsacks when Melissa from Feministing (I think) came on the forum and acted all nice and supportive for a couple weeks and then revealed on her site that she had “infiltrated” the MRM and gained our confidence and now she was going to write another book.

        Neely is a writer and was probably gathering information to write about. The same goes for GMP. They’ve also been asking for men’s stories. I think there is a profit motive to write a book but also I believe that anything we say can and will be used against us.

        Say it or don’t say it. It will all be used against us.

        • Primal

          I went back through everything she said here, just to see if I could get a better read on her ‘true’ intentions. It looks like a complicated combination of sincerity, love-struck stupidity, and as always the ever present romantic seduction racket (which is probably as unconscious as conscious). Next time, I won’t offer one good thing before she (or someone like her) directly addresses the core conundrums…conundrums which she dodged and ducked from the very beginning.

          Your thoughts are well taken too. What we say will be used for whatever nefarious purposes are possible. However, Neely proved to be a very naive infiltrator here. She left loads of personal ‘love’ behind which we can use to respond effectively if need be.

    • Alphabeta Supe

      Women also lie because hypergamy is a conniving bitch.

  • Kimski

    @Jean Valjean:

    Having seen that pattern of behavior on more occasions than I care to remember, I can only fully agree. It is an undeniable truth, no matter how you twist and turn it.

    And when held responsible for that behavior, in an attempt to explain not telling them the truth, they will deny it ever took place or that they betrayed your trust in them by opening up.

    Woman is not an enigma. She is a raving psycho with voting rights in a lot of different situations, and it seems that it is worsening for the majority at a rapid pace.
    Just calling it as I’ve seen it for way too many years, with way too many different women on way too many occasions. And I’ve honestly had more than enough for a very, very long time.

  • Adi

    I was leaning towards Neely until I saw that wretched video. I couldn’t get past the beginning. I wish I hadn’t even started watching it.
    People like Neely have no clue how much this hurts.

    The truth is, she only came here for self-promotion. She got backlinks to her posts and a potential new set of readers.
    Paul, I suggest removing all direct links to her posts or at least adding the no-follow attribute, so she doesn’t benefit from them. We can’t let her walk away from this a winner.

  • Tawil

    There are two main problems the MRM deals with:

    1. feminist driven misandry.
    2. male aiding of that feminist-driven misandry- ie. chivalry.

    Neely is absolutely clueless and uneducated on No #2. It’s embarassing.

    However she gets the problem with No. #1, which means she has half the picture and is the reason why most of us have let her off the hook. Half the picture is better than none… and she attacks No. #1 with some verve.

    The hope, as expressed by Paul Elam (I think it was he who expressed it somewhere above) is that Neely takes what she has read here, thinks about it, matures a bit, and eventually comes back to write about how No, #2 ultimately supports the depravity of No. #1.

    At the moment she is far too blinded by love and romantic stereotypes to take any of this on…. but hopefully after maturing a bit….

  • scatmaster

    As stated above their is probably a “profit motive” involved here.
    Trust me this will wind up on GMP or in some online book store and the discourse will be cherry picked by the misandric bitches and their eunuchs.

  • http://lifespeculiarities.blogspot.com/ Izzey

    Damn…..I missed one hell of a rodeo.

    Last night I read about 250 replies to this. I done wore myself out. ;)

    I’m sorry I missed so much here. I’m now on the tail end of pneumonia. (Being sick really sucks, but it gives you a lot of time to think about your priorities)

    Coming back with fresh eyes.

    I love when a man makes us feel like women.”

    I love being a woman that speaks up (and fights for) the rights of men.

    Izzey

    • Kimski

      Aww, you should have been there, Izzey. There were wild mustangs, clowns and fireworks. And later on there were someone who tried to mess with the bulls, who then got the horns. It was a real hoot. ;)

      Glad to hear you’re feeling better.

      • http://lifespeculiarities.blogspot.com/ Izzey

        I’m catching up on the ‘reruns’ now. Sheesh…so glad I speed read. ;)

        Thanks, Kimski.

        I missed eating the cotton candy. lol
        Still in pajamas here, and waiting for the ‘all clear’ from the doctor. But I am starting to feel better. I did not know you could walk around with pneumonia thinking you were just exhausted from recovering from the flu.

        I will be steppping right over the “bulls” shit though.

        Got some writing to do.
        Watch for it.
        ;)

        • scatmaster

          Hey Izz:
          We missed ya!!!!
          Glad you are back and hope you get on your feet soon. In your case I know
          ya can’t keep a good woman down.

          Izzey: contact me at scatmasterd@gmail.com about places to stay near the Titanic memorial in D.C. You said you knew of some.
          The ones I have been looking at are about $300.00 a night and that is a no go IMO.
          I have also been looking for costume shops in the area but it looks like I may be using local ones here and paying extra days rental and bringing them over the border much cheaper and easier in the long run.

      • scatmaster

        Hey Kimski: expat Canadian living in Denmark.
        What part of Canada are you from lad?

        OT: Scatmaster (yes I am speaking in third person) just noticed the males position in the picture accompanying this article. When my wife started pulling that shit I just went into another room. I haven’t missed her since and I get a good nights sleep.

        • Kimski

          @Scatmaster:

          I originate from Lillooet in British Columbia, but lived in Vancouver at the time my mother abducted my younger sister and me, as she was facing losing a custody battle in the very early 70’s. She had been enjoying herself with another man out of boredom for quite some time, before my dad finally found out and filed for a divorce.

          One month later, I started in school over here without knowing a single danish word and nobody intervened in the whole ordeal, or asked any questions. My dad didn’t even know which country we were in, until the early 80’s when my mom found another victim to marry, and the divorce proceedings finally went through.

          At that time the danish court decided that we had been with her for so long, that the decision obtained in the prior custody proceedings was overthrown, and she was then granted custody over us. This was after keeping her crime a secret for more than ten years, and she was never prosecuted or sentenced for kidnapping, although that was actually the nature of her crime.

          After having fulfilled his role in the little game she played, my first stepfather was immediately discarded, and she then proceeded to marry up 3 times in a row. And she ended up being a very wealthy woman before she died some 5 years ago, from a long lasting and painful lymphatic cancer. You can run your whole life, but you will not escape Karma, it seems.

          I did not participate in her funeral and was branded the black sheep of the family long before that, because I kept asking ‘inappropriate’ questions about my being in denmark whenever I had the chance. Mostly because I got a new explanation every time I asked, and not surprisingly it was all lies. Her main excuse was the 1 slap in her face she received at the time my dad found out about her betrayal, (-which she of course never mentioned). But that didn’t seem to keep her from beating the shit out of her own kids on a regular basis, all through my childhood. Oh, no, my sister´s and my own backside knows every household appliance very intimately.

          I got to meet my dad 2 times in my life and on the last occasion we got drunk together on a fishing trip, and I finally found out how deep the rabbit hole went. She was really some piece of work, but only the first in a long line of equally dishonest and morally corrupt bitches I’ve encountered in my life, so far.

          So why don’t you tell that story if you’re planning a paperback, Neely Steinberg?
          It’s a prime example of hypergamy, female domestic violence, claiming of victimhood, and pussy pass granted from the law that most women get or enjoy doing in the western world today. And it is all sanctioned by you and your scumbag ilk in the name of the ‘Holy Equality’.
          I have therefore devoted the rest of my life to fight your special breed of hell spawn, in the name of those who come after me who happens to be males.

          • justicer

            Female deviance wrapped in a toasted Danish.
            I hope you find some peace and comfort, Kimski, in the solidarity of your brothers. We’re with you.

          • Kimski

            Thank you, Justicer. I live a good life now and are quite content.
            All that stuff is water under the bridge now, and as I usually say: ‘That is how you build an MRA.’
            The maintenance comes free of charge with the women you meet. :)

  • td9red

    Cotton, 100%

    Sometimes I’m not sure you’re not a man. It shocking to see how a women could so easily accept the idea that her own sex is so bad that upon first introduction, they should not be trusted and be not believed b/c they were born female.

    Seriously, you should consider purchasing Hooked on Phonics. You need to learn to read the comments and actually try to get what the writer is stating, instead of purposely mischaracterizing the comments. The reason that you cause more harm when you speak out to women on behalf of men is b/c you name call, offend, berate and never hear the other person. You might do a better job of speaking if you get through your entire argument without an insult.

    “No where on this thread, or any other that I’ve encountered, have I found HATRED of women being promoted – except, falsely, by you.”

    Please point out where I said that this site or comments on this site PROMOTE HATRED OF WOMEN. I have said no such thing.

    “DO see there is tremendous rage toward INJUSTICE – except by you.”

    Rage toward injustice is justified. But, than I have said that in more than one post since yesterday. You just don’t get it. You are such a bulldog that you fail to see that I’m more than half way there. Instead you keep pushing. What I suggest is that rage against half of the population simply b/c they share the same sex organs with someone who hurt you is silly.

    I have never said that I have a daughter. I have a 2yr-old son. Why don’t you point to the comment where I say I have a daughter??? Is every women who does not agree with you hook, line, and sinker a liar? Does it somehow make you feel good to mischaracterize comments and call me a liar.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      “The reason that you cause more harm when you speak out to women on behalf of men is b/c you name call, offend, berate and never hear the other person.”

      Please post any comment where I’ve name called, offended or berated. You are free to explain how a comment “offended” you or made you feel berated, but only if you enlighten me to which comment that might be. Please point out all the “bashing” you claim is happening. Cut and paste.

      I specifically cut and pasted the article you claimed said false accusations were low, when in fact, the writer was extremely angry about how HIGH they were. You wondered aloud why men were so PO’d about so few accusers when in fact he asked why should men care about rape when women didn’t give a damn about false rape accusations.

      These threads are too difficult to retrieve past postings, and I don’t intend to slog through them to prove a point.

      We can agree to disagree. From now on, if you want to attribute my thoughts of feelings to something you claim I said – include the quote. For instance:
      ______________________

      Quote: ( Red) “Fuck you”
      _________________________
      Stay classy, eh?

      • scatmaster


        ______________________

        Quote: ( Red) “Fuck you”
        _________________________

        Her true character is coming out 100%. You are doing a fine job.

    • Red Bones

      “Sometimes I’m not sure you’re not a man. It shocking to see how a women could so easily accept the idea that her own sex is so bad that upon first introduction, they should not be trusted and be not believed b/c they were born female.”

      Have you been reading this thread? Everyone that mistrusted Neely turned out to be right. She laughs at men who are sexually mutilated,ergo, she is a very bad person.

      Everyone who attempted to give her the benefit of the doubt,myself included to some extent, basically got dickslapped in the mouth.

      Put yourself in a man’s shoes. Your ability to reproduce and enjoy sex for the rest of your life is at stake. Which makes more sense,be suspicious of all women, even ones who seem to be positive about men (as Neely seemed to be), or fuck up and wind up in close quarters,and on the wrong end of a butcher knife, with somebody who has no legal accountability who thinks cutting your genitals off is just hilarious?

      Think about it. If you’re wrong,you get ridiculed on national tv for your mistake and everyone is going to tell you you were too stupid to catch the “red flags” and you deserve your suffering. Keep that in mind.

      What would you do?

      It’s not that women are bad,it’s that the system rewards the ones who are. You’d have to be pretty fucking stupid to trust someone who has an incentive to do you harm. Frankly,I’m surprised there’s even a handful of women with good intentions toward us.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      “We couldn’t be anymore different. You indicated you took the route of the SAHM. I never considered it. It was never an option. I married later after my education was completed. While it would’t have been right for me, I would strongly caution a daughter of mine against it, and strongly caution my son against women who want to SAH, I completely respect your choice.”
      ____________________________________________
      Interesting you mention an non-existant daughter before an actual son. Twice.

      odd, that.

      I found a quote where you claim you NEVER are insulting or crude, too. Shall I dig that one out as well?

      • td9red

        Wow, this is really getting silly Cotton. I can’t believe I am arguing with a woman on a men rights site. But, lets go through my statement:

        “….I would strongly caution a daughter of mine against it, and strongly caution my son against women who want to SAH, I completely respect your choice.”

        “WOULD” (implies future tense) I would caution [A] (note I don’t say MY daughter. My husband and I want a second child and would be delighted if it were a girl, being as we have a son.) daughter. Contrast the second part of the statement regarding “my son” with the first part of the statement, “and strongly caution MY son (implies present tense).

        -I WOULD caution A daughter
        -and strongly caution MY SON <~~~~Get the difference.

        "I specifically cut and pasted the article you claimed said false accusations were low,"

        Cotton this is not what I said. My words, "very few women make false rape accusations"

        Reread the angryharry article. He suggest that 80 to 90% of rape claims made to police are false. I have read many articles on this topic. I have read articles which suggest anywhere from 30% to 90% of reports to police are false. I tend to split figures in half, so I believe probably 60% of claims to police are false. Note, Harry argues in the article that of the high rate of false claims to police 80 to 90%, this does not mean that 80 to 90% of women as a group, make false reports of rape to police, but, instead the percentage of women who make false reports to the police is very small. That the women who make false reports to police tend to make these claims over and over again about different men and this inflates the number. Do you see how the statement I made is different from the statement you attributed to me?

        Cotton – I said long ago, maybe a week ago that it is fine to disagree with someone. You are strong willed and so am I. We are not going to change each other's mind. As I have indicated I clearly agree with the need to change laws that discriminate against men. But, I will not under any circumstances believe that women are simply bad seeds. People are bad.

        • OneHundredPercentCotton

          Q: Wow, this is really getting silly Cotton. I can’t believe I am arguing with a woman on a men rights site.
          _____________________________________

          And I can’t believe I’m arguing with a MOTHER of a SON on a men’s rights site.

          I’m afraid I do “get it”, red, and it’s pretty distressing. Shall I dig up your quote where you are worried about women being thrown under the bus while you could care less you have a son who is ALREADY thrown under the bus just because he’s male?

          Are you placing concern for your non existant daughter above your living, breathing son, red? Or is it just all about YOU? YOUR rights? YOUR comfort? YOUR entitlements? You’ll allow your son to suffer for your own selfish interests?

          Again I’m going to ask WHY you mention a non existant daughter ahead of mentioning your living, breathing little boy? Where are your priorities that the rights of a daughter you don’t even have over shadow the lack of rights of a son you DO have?

          I’ve wondered a million times reading MRA sites “WHERE ARE YOUR MOTHERS???”

          I guess you effectively answered that question – loud and clear.

          I’ve read thousands of articles about false rape accusations in the last 14 years since my son was falsely accused, red. YOU implied they were rare and claimed that was backed up on MRA sites – which I well knew was BOGUS.

          One woman making a false rape accusation with thousands and thousands and thousands of women supporting and defending her is, in fact, multiplying the false rape accusation by every single person who supports it.

          You can quote me on that.

          The laws are bad, and the people who instigate them, know the law is bad yet use them for their own gain anyway, knowingly support others in injustice, and punish and harm the innocent anyway ARE culpable.

  • justicer

    This debate (td-red versus Men’s rights) reminds me of how many women respond to reports of misbehavior by their gender. Even rational and fair women will hesitate before accrediting some man’s account of female abuses of men. There is always a moment of pulling back, perhaps, where they are asking themselves whether they themselves are guilty; or simply, they fear validating any man- the unspoken thought is “Am I allowed to listen to this?”
    So, unless the woman has exceptional exposure to feminist lies; has a material interest in looking at a female abuser objectively (e.g, she’s the victim’s new girlfriend), or unless she’s a trained and honest psychologist, you won’t get a full commitment from any woman to put an end to female deviance, or to advance men’s rights.
    Td has an ideological fixation here: to avoid gender-based generalizations, or the suggestion that there are “bad” women ruining men’s lives; there are just a few ‘misguided’ but good ones, so what else is new?
    At one point, I thought TD was an old-fashioned but closeted marxist with a class-solidarity mindset that refused to take biology into account — i.e., a dogmatic behaviourist who believes that handing out power and money will make everyone into a perfect angel. But I don’t see that any more.
    This line about ‘oh, we’re not all angels, but then, so is nobody else!’ is an old cop-out, designed to blunt anaysis and obfuscate. It was used by Western spokesmen for the Soviet tyranny between 1935 and 1959: oh, there are a few rough patches, but no-one’s perfect!
    Feminists condescend to admit there ‘may be a few male victims’, but no large body of them, no systemic victmization,and, they add, it’ll do men good to be victims now and then.
    From what I see, TD is the fembo crocodile with the fixed and rehearsed smile. I rather think we should not respond to her from now on.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      Even the most ardent feminists I’ve ever talked to will immediately take exception for their own sons. “Oh, not MY son! Other “men” yes. YOUR son, yes, but not MY son!” It’s always other people’s sons that are bad, while theirs are the exception – thanks to their supreme mothering, of course.

      Not a peep of that from red, however. Very telling.

      • Paul Elam

        Red is quickly wearing out her welcome. And she has been allowed to go much further than any one of us could hope for on a feminist site. Let me know when the rest of you get tired of her.

        • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

          Tired.

        • Zorro

          Yaaawwwwnn.

          Tired.

          • Bombay

            I like that moose!

          • Paul Elam

            Yep, the moose rocks.

        • Skeptic

          Tired of tdUSrad?
          No. Exhausted.
          It’s like Billy Connolly used to say – “No point trying to have a discussion here, they’re like a radio that’s stuck on only a one way channel – transmit”.

        • Sting Chameleon

          Beyond tired my friend.

  • td9red

    Paul,

    She’s attacking me. I’m not permitted to defend myself?

    • Bombay

      Your me, me, me knows no end. Tired.

    • Paul Elam

      Actually, not here, not any more. I have been following your posts here for some time. I see nothing in them that indicates anything more than superficial lip service to intellectual honesty. Your purpose here seems to be that we all need to reconsider basic beliefs that mold to your worldview. And at times, you stray into the bizarre. The bizzare is not so bad. The lack of intellectual honesty is.

      This is not a forum for you, Red. It is a forum for men and women who believe that misandry is the predominant issue facing men, and that feminism is now a hate movement furthering female elitism at the expense of men and boys. Most of us are angry about it, and we are sick and tired of people telling us not to be.

      I can’t believe that you came in here, lamenting all this, and now are shocked that you are being attacked. Take that kind of fucked up, privileged thinking elsewhere. You are banned.

      • Skeptic

        Thank you Paul for getting rid of the feminist troll and in no uncertain terms too (big sigh of relief).
        Now back to business free of her crap gumming up the works ……

  • justicer

    Amen.
    And…I apologise for my windy post, above.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      I thought your post hit the nail right on the head.

      As someone who has witnessed a false rape prosecution, honesty has becomes very precious to me. The Truth becomes the thing I value above all else.

      I have found, without exception, MRA sites are where truth and justice are to be found.

      …without exception.

      Feminist sites are outright comical as they stampede from lie to lie to “prove” themselves Oppressed or Victimized.

      …except it isn’t funny. It’s ruining lives, it’s killing souls, it’s evil and destructive.

      I’m sorry I wasn’t able to convey this to red, but hopefully in retrospect she will realize this was never men against women, but simply men standing their ground in the truth.

      …’cause that’s what men do.

      • andybob

        Dear Ms Cotton,

        You are forever and always on my list of “Blazing Lights”.

        Much Respect,
        Andybob

  • Thoth

    Frankly Scarlett I dont give a damn, keep on looking for John you unstable half aborted life form.
    Ive seen enough Dear John from you wretched uncaring alien cunts that I could stomach for an eternity.

    the world is in shambles, war strife suffering and this cunt laments on about her material pleasures oblivious to reality.

    DISGUSTING!

  • Lee

    I unfortunately gave up on reading each comment, but I feel like something needs to be pointed out.

    Replace ‘love’ with ‘appreciate’ and you may have a more valid list.

    On a side note Neely, if you had someone doing all these things for without appreciating it, you would be downright insane. I sure hope would offer a whole lot more in return than SirThinxAlot’s list. -.-

    Romantic love/infatuation is an emotion not too well explained by a list like this. Any honest attempt to explain this would contain things relating to the 5 senses and sexual chemistry…you know, things that affect hormones and basic biological reactions.

    The caring version of love’s list would contain a bunch of ways she expresses it by things done for him, perhaps. :P

    Unless, by ‘love’, she meant ‘really like’. Then she is as much a self-absorbed leach as she denies being.

  • Otter

    Yea I used to post over at GMP until I recognized that they are only trying to define “good men” as those men who provide benefit to women. They moderated my comments every time I criticized feminism and claimed that while men shouldn’t be allowed to take hand in constructing femininity, that they felt they deserved to construct “positive masculinity.” The place is crawling with women who think men exist to serve them.

  • Hg_CNO_2

    I have been reading Patricia Love’s book on Emotional Incest.

    It made me see this kind of behavior in women as even worse than Paul characterizes it here. It occurred to me that by an adult wife acting this peurile in a supposed ‘loving’ relationship with a man, she could render or ‘redefine’ almost anything sacrificial he does for his kids as emotional incest! “You were supposed to treat ME like that!”

    I suppose I could say I dodged a bullet with my ex in exactly such a case: she was always jealous of our kids for this reason. She ultimately took it out on them (and me) by kicking me out.

    Why am I lucky you ask? Well, because she didn’t throw me in prison or try to take full custody of my kids, and I fought to remain in their lives the entire time, right from the outset.

    YAY ME! YAY MY KIDS!

    I am soooo lucky to not have a completely psycho and vindictive cunt of an ex in a world which that kind of thing is fully enabled and even encouraged! (Her cuntstick egg-donor did in fact do everything she could to encourage her to go that route, having not learned a fucking thing in her own case with an early dying son – at 14 years of age)