Neely Steinberg, the relationship/dating columnist for Blast Magazine, has a lot of things she loves about men; Twenty, to be exact. She posted the complete list as part of an article over at the Good Men Project, an online publication that has, by a rather strange twist of events, begun to accommodate some actual defense of men in recent days, and in the process has alienated some people whose bread and butter resides in attacks on the same.
But before we rush to praise this newfound religion, we should take a moment to examine Steinberg’s ideas, especially as honest money says they echo the oft stated sentiments of GMP founder Tom Matlack, and his increasingly vocal shill, Lisa Hickey, regarding men and masculinity. I bring Tom into this because Steinberg’s piece is indicative of where I think Tom has wanted the GMP to go all along.
So what are the qualities in a man that makes Neely’s heart go all aflutter, and lifts it up on the wings of her womanly passion? Here’s her version of the testosterone top 20:
I love when a man puts his hand on the small of a woman’s lower back, as if to say, I’m here for you if you need me.
I love when a man wipes away a woman’s tears or pushes a strand of her hair away from her face, tucking it lovingly behind her ear.
I love how millions of men go off to work every day and then come home after long work hours to share in the housework and child-rearing.
I love how men contribute hundreds of millions of dollars every year to charities in the U.S. and across the globe.
I love when a man makes us feel like women.
I love when a man waits patiently inside an elevator to let all the ladies out first.
I love how a man who would go to the ends of the earth for a woman he loves.
I love how a man who will rub his partner’s feet at the end of the day even though he’s had a hard day at work too.
I love the men who so bravely and willingly risk their lives in service to our country and to protect us all.
I love being Little Spoon.
I love the way a man looks into his child’s eyes and loses himself.
I love that men’s various discoveries throughout the ages (scientific, mathematical, medical, etc.) have made our lives easier.
I love the way a man runs into the ocean like maniac.
I love the shape of a man’s big, strong back when he leans over to pick up something heavy.
I love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman happy.
I love when a man tells a woman how lucky he is to have found her.
I love the way a man takes a woman’s delicate hand, brings it to his lips, and kisses it gently, showing how much he adores her.
I love when a man chows down on his food, as if only a 9.0 Richter Scale earthquake could shake him from his glorious feast.
I love how a man in love thinks of his partner’s sexual pleasure before his own.
I love a man who will do the jobs that most of us would never consider. Sewer inspector, anyone?
I understand the appeal. There was a time in my life when I thought the world of people who didn’t clutter my life with their own needs or concerns for their own well-being; who did all the nasty, painful, dangerous and sacrificing tasks in life, while I got to remain protected, carefree and clueless. I got to live on a pedestal at the expense of others, and I didn’t have to consider the cost.
Yes, I remember it clearly now. It was called childhood. It was a time that was, in retrospect, one of unending self-indulgence – provided by responsible people that knew such sacrifices came with raising someone who, by the nature of life, was relatively helpless. Fortunately, they also took the responsibility of walking me through pain of growing out of that and showing me the more realistic world that did not revolve around me.
Am I being verbose? Well, I could have summed all this up in one sentence.
When the things I loved about people were the closest to the twenty items on Steinberg’s list, it was also the time that I didn’t have the maturity to care about anyone else’s needs and wants but my own.
What else could such a list represent?
Twenty reasons to love? No, Neely, twenty narcissistic fantasies; twenty ideas that reveal your belief that you are more inherently valuable than the men you claim to love. And for me, twenty eye rolls and twenty reasons to figure that your notions of love originate not in the heart, but the mirror.
You tell us you “love the men who so bravely and willingly risk their lives in service to our country and to protect us all.” Well, as a man who wore the uniform, please allow me to say thank you for that. I will remember to carry your message of “love” on my next trip to the V.A. Hospital, and pass it along to the young men with no legs; men whose bodies and lives have been shredded and shattered and piled up through the ages at your entitled feet. I will tell them all is not lost. They have love of Neely Steinberg, internet relationship guru from Boston.
But first please indulge me with a question or two. Did it ever occur to you to plead with these men you “love” not to put themselves in harm’s way? Is it not strange, even perverse, that in a world terrorized with illicit wars, that you dangle love like a carrot for the men who leave body parts, or everything, on the battlefield?
And please tell me, if you really loved these men, in the most pure and real definition of the word, and you support their being fodder, would you not be better off talking of your willingness to stand with them where the metal meets the meat, willing to offer your own blood for whatever cause you have deemed sufficient to demand their sacrifice? Or are you just satisfied in a world where they fall in your stead while you bestow platitudes and hollow affections?
You also say that “love the shape of a man’s big, strong back when he leans over to pick up something heavy.” No doubt, this is a great turn on for you. But isn’t your sentence incomplete? Would it not be more accurate to add the words for me on to the end? This is one of the things you really love most about men, is it not? The willingness to do your heavy lifting; and the payment of the price for that labor with a broken body that eventually buckles beneath the weight of all your “love”?
I think that is the answer, and nowhere is it more aptly revealed than in three of your reasons in particular, as follows:
I love how a man in love thinks of his partner’s sexual pleasure before his own.
I love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman happy.
I love the way a man takes a woman’s delicate hand, brings it to his lips, and kisses it gently, showing how much he adores her.
Admittedly, these things do not rise to the level of catching bullets, staring down danger or converting one’s body into an appliance for your convenience. They do, however, make all things possible. You’ve concluded in them that even in life’s most intimate moments, even after you have been serviced and sacrificed for, that you, and only you, are the only thing that really matters.
Love? Please. These acts, or rather your infatuation with them, are not elements of any kind of love. You don’t love men. You love yourself. You just use men as your visible proof that what you want is justified and wholesome, and not the conceited, parasitic sickness that it is. If there is love to be had in this world, you are the least deserving of it.
What is a man worth to you, Ms. Steinberg? I don’t mean his service and sacrifice, but his intrinsic worth as a human being. What love do you have for your fellow man that is not based on his blood, his back or his wallet? Do you even comprehend these questions and why I am asking? Or am I asking the wrong person?
I was pleased to see that Tom Matlack finally took some semblance of a stand against his own expected utility to feminists, apparently after spending too much time on their leash settling for the crumbs of appreciation tossed down from his betters. So I do have hopes that as Tom continues to mature, to learn, and to find values that are actually worth standing up for, that he gets to the next level of his development as a man, and figures out that there is no difference between Neely Steinberg and the feminist ideologues that have just crucified him for not toting their barge. Both view Tom only in terms of what he will do to serve them; both will blithely slip a shank in his back the moment he forgets that they both “love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman happy.”
That will happen when the day comes that he starts writing about the innate human worth of men; about their real struggles and not just their willingness to sacrifice for women and other men. And no, we are not talking about men embarking on a path of solipsism that would result in more self-indulgent lists of petty desires à la Steinberg.
I am speaking instead of the simple and honest fruition of love; the idea that you are worth something before you pay for it in blood, sweat and tears. And that the idea of tending to your own needs and your own survival, and those of your fellow man, is not an act of shame, cowardice or unworthiness, except in the eyes of the depraved.
660 Posts in Total
Ta Paul. You put it beautifully.
Knock knock,
Who’s there ?
Feminist.
Well fuck off then !
Hahaha short and to the point – made me rofl!
“I love when a man waits patiently inside an elevator to let all the ladies out first.”
Who’s waiting patiently? Maybe men are just too considerate to get into a shoving match with line jumping hogs who have no perception of “wait your turn.” And have you ever seen a woman hold an elevator door (or any door) for a man – so a closing door doesn’t bang into him? Yes, some kind/considerate women like Dr. T, GWW, TB and others are truly liberated and consider men in the course of their daily routines, but many, many women don’t.
Are the majority of these women (as a group) physically weaker than men, and/or just so into themselves that they don’t see others when going through doors?
When a woman walks through a door and doesn’t even bother to turn around to see if the closing door might impact another human being, it makes me wonder.
Living in a busy behavioral sink like L.A., one might wonder if that behavior is a big city a phenomenon, and something that cuts across gendered lines, but NO – that’s not the case. It’s very largely women doing the ignoring of others (in my experience), when going through doors with closers.
I notice this more as I get older, when a door that could have easily been held open at a cost of only a few seconds, is let go, and comes my way with momentum.
Yes, in “wall to wall people L.A.” you get a lot of opportunities to observe this phenomenon. Just yesterday a young woman walked through a door ahead of me, then DIDN’T EVEN TURN AROUND to see if someone else might be immediately behind her. I guess her feeble little wrist just gave out and she couldn’t hold it anymore, or she just couldn’t be bothered to consider other human beings. I put my big shoulder into it (the door) and just slide off the impact as I went through – the pain in my old joints more noticeable, then I held the door for a second or two more for the person behind me – so the door didn’t bang into him/her.
And “yes,” I always check before letting a door go closed and hold it equally for men, or women. It’s a “human courtesy” thing.
Some sexist, dumb a$$ feminists are angered by this, by what they perceive as a chivalrous, Patriarchal act. But they really don’t count in the grand scheme of things. Everyone here has learned a long time ago that they have nothing relevant to contribute to the collection of responsible societal behaviors.
I’m also amazed by the great number of women I see entering a busy cross walk, without checking (turning their heads) to see if a car might be barreling through an intersection (running a red light). I often wonder what the percentage of pedestrians struck by cars is, based on gender.
When your a misandrist, self-centered woman, the center of the world, and the whole universe revolves around you. I guess centrifugal force just keeps all potentially impacting objects at a safe distance. :-/
“I love the shape of a man’s big, strong back when he leans over to pick up something heavy.”
That pedestal you’re on won’t lift itself cupcake.
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I think we all know exactly what you meant.
My comment was not specific to that, but rather a general statement regarding your entire list, which exemplifies the goals of the GMP; to pedestalize women above men, as a veiled attempt to promote gender equality.
Paul, why wasn’t this deleted? It’s obvious she does not understand our needs or desires, nor does she care anything about men. Isn’t it rule number one on both sides of this conflict that no matter what is said, if it’s not in complete 100% agreement with the NARRATIVE (God that’s a sickening word) of the said forum, that the poster is to be forever banned and added to a shit list to be passed from like-site to like-site? ROTFLMFAO. Equality thy name is bozo, or is it bozo-ette?
She had the ovaries to engage the forum. Suffice to say she’s in the midst of a cathartic moment. MRA’s do that to people who ask for it…straight into advanced studies with no introductory course.
“Does it follow that I meant picking up something heavy for me or did you infer that? Or perhaps I meant simply to lust after, comment on, and appreciate the shape of a man’s back – a beautiful thing!”
Now I think I understand what you really meant, although you may not even know it. You appear to aesthetically appreciate the physicality, the form, of a man like you appreciate any other muscular beast of burden, slaving its life away. It’s just so artistic to see a male laboring under the oppression of an intellectually unfulfilling role that’s based in physical drudgery and/or male disposability.
I once saw a photo, amongst a group of photos, from the early part of the 20th century. It literally showed scores of men and mules/horses engaged in brutally hard manual labor. They were shaping the earth for the foundation of a large government building. You’d likely have loved that photo, but may have failed to comprehend all the physical pain, suffering, and oppression in those statuesquely shaped noble beasts.
This isn’t that photo, just an aesthetically pleasing photo of “the noble beasts” from that era.
http://tinyurl.com/62f7wue
And here are some other photos of “the noble beasts” you may find aesthetically pleasing,
http://tinyurl.com/427rft2
http://tinyurl.com/yknvnqv
Everyone knows what you meant, Neely. The problem is not that you might appreciate men for all of the things you wrote (even though they are very self-centred). The problem is that you wrote these things in the wrong place, at the wrong time and in the wrong manner. Further, you are trying to defend them in the wrong place, the wrong time and in the wrong manner.
The GMP, for all its shallowness and feminist manipulation, is still part of the manosphere – a growing sector that exists because radical feminist ideals are rapidly entering mainstream society. Whether one agrees with what they allow to be posted there or not, the feminist incursion is a very serious problem and one that has deep and dangerous implications for society as a whole. It is not a time or place for fluffy pink bunnies like your list of 20.
Cultural misandry is not just splitting society, it is fragmenting it – i.e. rendering it into a anarchist rabble. This is a serious problem for civilisation and it needs serious people to write about it. Your list, however kindly it was written, will not be taken seriously when feminist bombs are falling all around us. It really ought to have stayed in that folder on your desktop called “Things To Never Say in Public”.
If you truly care about men, you’re going to have to show it. Ratchet up your invective so it is clear that you care and that you know what it means to care. NB. ‘Care’ is not about promoting the things that make you feel good but about doing things that a) help to relieve unnecessary suffering and b) enable the recipients of care to flourish.
If you throw fluffy pink bunnies onto the battlefield when bombs are being dropped and the lives of men are being shattered (read about Thomas James Ball in the Activism tab above and about all the men in the articles at falserapesociety.com), expect to be ridiculed.
Yes I knew what you were trying to say, Ms Steinberg. It’s the same species of man(-)ipulation that Marianne Williamson applied 20 years ago: camera-friendly, heterosexual chick secures gigs as writer (and, maybe, who knows? celebrity someday, Neely: if you’re gonna get famous, tho, better do it quick while you’re still young – ie camera-friendly) by *talking* about “lust” for men once in awhile. And we men are supposed to fall all over ourselves in appreciation…And, of course, spread the word about how “different” you are as a woman writer. Lucky us.
And as for “feminism’s having made a sexual playground for men, no?”…You *are* fuckin kidding with this one, aren’t you? Feminism has done nothing – I repeat, absolutely nothing – for men and all males, in the libido department except everything in its now overwhelming power, to have men, and boys from the earliest age, come to associate their own, natural, heterosexual life-engendering desires, with a singeing taser-zap, followed by arrest, jail, and financial ruin. And we in the ‘sixties hoped for a time when humanbeings mightn’t associate sex with shame. My parent’s generation’s quasi-victorian attitude toward sex looks like a hippy-libertine’s compared to feminism’s roaringly successful campaign to make men associate it with nothing but Pain. And society to criminalize it. Shame, O girl, deep deep shame on you – or your ignorance – in making such a mockery of history as your “feminism made a sexual playground for men” statement.
You seem like a reader. Do this: Read, or reread Aldous Huxley’s “Brave New World” – at least the scene where the future Epsilon-menials of society are made, as infants, to associate books (knowledge, curiosity) and flowers (beauty) with ear-splitting alarm bells, and electric shock.
And the excellence just keeps on coming …
A great many plusses.
THAT, was beautiful!
Dearie, just about everything in your list adds up to narcissism. What you “love” is that a man will feed your ego, crawl for you, suffer for you, set himself below you, carry you, suffer for you, even die for YOU.
You see your Supreme Wonderfulness reflected in just about every “love” statement in your list. You see nothing of his pain, his suffering, his effort, his sacrifice.
I bet you use foreskin creme to keep your youthful complexion.
Your list sounds like the kind of relation men and women shared a long time ago, feminism destroyed that, when all is said and done, men cant go back to that if the MRM is successful, it will be something different, but is a work in progress.
If she weren’t quite so narcissitic she could simply have stated “I love how a man will sacrifice any and all of himself to fulfill my needs, wants, and desires no matter how petty they are or how great the risk to himself.” There was no need for the self-indulgent verbosity that resulted in such a long list of 20 “me firsts.”
TDOM
Ah, but it was poetry!
Or pottery. Or pootery. Or poo.
Something like that.
Barf!!!!
Pass the bucket, Scatmaster.
Incredible.
Whatever you do, don’t hand this woman a mirror. She’ll spontanousely self combust in sheer delight with herself.
*Edit: Sorry, got so disgusted I forgot to give you credits, Paul.
Consider it done.
It is really hard to believe how clueless this Dear Abby wannabe is. It never ceases to amaze.
…and if you stick a broom up my arse, i’ll sweep the kitchen floor at the same time, my darling little spoon.
LOL!!!
I said that to my wife just last week.
My son thought it was hilarious.
Her not so much.
Good to see you’re setting an example for your boy. +1
Thank you Whitney. I am trying.
Oh Scatters that is flaming beautiful.
Your son knows what he is doing that’s for damned sure. I think I like him already you know ?
It is a work in progress Dr. F
He fell off the wagon last night. Responded to the call of the ham wallet (not sure if it was honey glazed or not) at 5AM in the morning to come pick the trollop up and drive her home from her boyfriends. WTF!!!!!!
A serious talk is to be had with that boy when he gets up.
Yoips ! Yeah…. a BIG talking to.
“love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman happy.”
Hmm does ” get the eff away from me ” count for both her scenarios. I tell you what it certainly works for me when encountering a narcissistic trollop.
The way I see it your gonna catch shyte either way so you might as well be true to yourself.
Great article Paul
Love isn’t about what someone else does for you. It’s about what you do for someone else.
I posted on that thread
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/20-things-i-love-about-men/comment-page-3/#comment-88217
and shortly after Joanna Schroeder blocked me from posting on the site.
Nonetheless, I asked a salient question that has yet to be answered. Name one obligation that women have towards men? I’ve never gotten an answer and in reality it’s a trick question. There are no obligations that women have that they cannot shirk off on a whim.
Another poster responded to my post and said something to the affect that all men appreciate about women is tits, ass, and sex.
If I were able to respond I would have asked her what else women have to offer? Nothing women bring to the table is comparable to the kind of emotional, physical, and financial service that men provide for women. And if I were to mention any kind of reciprocal services that a woman might provide like cleaning, cooking, child care or blow jobs then I’m a labeled a misogynist.
I can only speak for myself, but that other poster was right.
If it were not for those things, I wouldn’t be wasting a second of my time talking to them.
and that is why that Matlack character has not changed and will never change. No open commentary on their boards. Run by manginas and feminists. They are good for a larf though as Paul has shown and then ramped up a notch by the good Dr F.
The material to draw upon is unending be it silly or sober Scatters, unending.
Yes, love is definitely about all the things you do for someone else. For instance:
I love to hear her say “good boy” and pat me on the head like a good little doggy after I’ve taken out the trash in the wind and rain so she didn’t have to get wet.
I love to listen to her snore all the way to work while I fight our way through LA traffic and sip coffee in a desperate attempt to stay awake.
I love listening to her whine about how hard it is to do laundry AFTER I’ve lugged the overstuffed baskets from the second floor to the garage and then lugged them back upstairs again once the laundry is done.
I love to cook dinner for the family only to have my wife bitch and moan that the dishes aren’t clean because I didn’t wash them BEFORE I put them into the dishwasher.
That’s what love is.
TDOM
WTF? The cook doesn’t do dishes!!
I am living with my aunt and uncle while I go to school. Around these parts, the duties are split. If I cook, aunt cleans up food and table, and uncle washes the dishes. My uncle has taken it upon himself to show me some Army etiquette he learned during his service. I am thankful.
Whitney, this cook does the dishes.
Living alone, I do everything that gets done in my home.
I’ve been reading up on cruising, “sailing away,” living on a boat and crossing the oceans. Most of the source materials I’ve found, involve the idea of going as a twosome … it’s difficult to find RECIPES for one!
There is absolutely no way that I will structure my life after a fashion that requires “two”. I am completely aware that “another” will take over my life, subvert my dreams, impose her choices and whims on my needs. Even if it wasn’t a wife that did that – it was my mother – I recognize my own vulnerability in that way.
My only answer is to go it alone.
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My response was “So what?”
Our utility is matched by what? (I paraphrase myself)
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Should demand these things…what a good idea.
Ok, so now when a guy is not getting these things……I can tell him…….just demand it god damn it. And how would he do that exactly……..mmmmmm……well…he could yell at her and……..no…hell get arrested for that. I know, he could refuse to pay any bills or give her any affection, sex etc…..mmmmm…….come to think of it……they call that domestic violence now to don’t they.
He could call the police and tell them his wife is committing domestic violence by not giving him the above mentioned list of things. I have a feeling he will be arrested for DV for trying to control his wife…………any controlling behavior remember.
I know…….he could leave. Leave the house, with mortgage with his name on it which he is legally obligated to keep paying. Leave the kids……and pay zillions in lawyers fees trying to protect what little rights he has (not).
Come to think of it…there is no use him trying to demand anything. The law demands of him…….not of her…..so that’s what has to change.
Aren’t you supposed to be somewhere defending female supremacy?
“I have a great fear of what comes after a “masculine revolution.”
Oh, that’s what you’re doing here. Right.
I see. It’s “You just haven’t found the right woman” response.
When a woman is beaten by her boyfriend do you tell her, “You just haven’t found the right man?” No. Because that would be blaming the victim!
The fact is she might be the right woman but after a few years of marriage she gets bored and starts to take her husband for granted because the things he gives her are mandatory which means that in her mind she’s giving more than he is and if she stops giving him anything she can still get most of what she’s already getting.
Forced obligation is what is ruining relationships between men and women and it’s the reason men are turning away from marriage altogether. The longer this goes on the more permanent and widespread male contempt for women will become.
You see cupcake, women are allowed to keep huge laundry lists of demands over men (and get the proper backup to enforce them), whereas if a man expresses any preference or request, he’s labeled as a sexist pig/misogynist and beaten to a bloody pulp.
Oh, that was your foot he stomped on? (Smiles…)
td9red I don’t know you and so I’ll be the last to cast aspersions about your character.
“This is how you really feel about women… Ouch!”
This comment however, in the face of the facts as seen on the masthead, shows the depth of your thinking here to be astoundingly shallow.
Unfortunately it reeks of one of the very many things many modern men find distasteful of many modern women.
To be precise in this case, an infatuation with a very small cherry plucked with tweezers from a tree and placed on a table with a magnifying glass over it the size of a manhole cover.
Dissection of such a red and tiny pea exposes misdirected energies fueled by ‘me-ism’ and perhaps, ‘I don’t give a crap about you-ism.’
Again td9red, I genuinely direct my annoyance at your post here and not you as a person at all.
Please think more with empathy for your downtrodden brothers and shelve your indignation for that other gender.
Yes, I get it. This site is a place where men can come to vent. I respect that. You’re entitled. I apologize.
Sometimes the woman as bad stuff is hard to hear…
Great reply.
Perhaps there is hope for all of us after all eh ?
@Dr. F
I believe there is hope for us. But, I’m starting to lose faith. I’m more and more convinced each day that the future holds more MGTOW, which will I guess force WGTOW. This is probably the future even if the feminism fell tomorrow. I don’t see how the fall of feminism would change this result.
Oh no,you are so wrong I am delighted to say.
Take feminism out of the mix and let nature do it’s thing and you have an instant orgy of of deep respect and awe.
It was this way with our grandparents and if they were blighted with the feminist virus we’d all be different people born from different relationships.
@ Dr. F
I hear you Doc. I hope you’re right. But, men and women; the world is so different than it was in the time of our grandfathers. One of the things that early feminism or maybe simply natural progression did that was good for women, but not good for men or for the family was to give women an identity appart from their husband. Not just the doctor’s wife or the janitor’s wife. When one gains a new freedom it changes you, it changes your relationships. I don’t think women will ever be their grandmothers and a system without female privilege would not allow them to be. Our Grandmothers were taken care of financially. Modern women will have to pay their own way. This means they’ll be different.
It wasn’t a “feeling” it was a question. The intent of the question was to foster some introspection in Alice and get her to list some qualities and aspects that men might want other than sex.
She couldn’t do that. You can’t do that. All you can do is twist the question into a statement and thus avoid answering it.
There is one woman, Red, to whom I offered and gave all that I had to offer and give. And actually, what she gave me was not her vagina, but her UTERUS as a place to gestate until I was able to live on my own as a baby.
I actually meant something to my mother. I meant less than nothing to any other woman who might have brushed past me in my life, even though I would have worked hard to be a “good man” to any of them.
Now … ten years after my Mother’s death … I feel oh so poignantly, like daggers thrust into my bowels, that you and your sisters have NO regard for the likes of me; that you would use me like you use a Kleenex, and discard me as casually.
I utterly reject you, and your sanctimonious supremacy. Go cleave unto your husband, and honor him, and bother us no more. You are USELESS here!!!
They way Hickey is talking, she is acting like you have not been banned.
Fuck sake.
and his increasingly vocal shill, Lisa Hickey,
Paul, after proof reading your article I noticed you had made a small error. I corrected your mistype.
and his increasingly vocal shRill, Lisa Hickey,
Geese you’re a funny bugger. One green tick from me Scatters.
P.S.
”
” as your full stop was upside down.
“I corrected your mistype.
Should read:
“I corrected your mistype.
I have the email from Joanna Schroeder that says I can no longer post.
And I can no longer post. So I think that counts as a banning.
But lying is par for the course for a feminist.
It was a dammed good question and shame on that bunch of ostriches for not adressing it. Feminism has encouraged women to become like narcissistic egomaniacs. They have a LONG list of expectations from the men in thier lives but when you ask to see the list of what they will provide in return it’s like Blanklooksville.
“all men appreciate about women is tits, ass, and sex”
Thank feminism. These are the only things modern western women have left that are remotely attractive.
This may also explain much of the past poetry, lyrics and literature that dealt with other aspects of female beauty besides only their physical attributes. However, unless it’s being marketed specifically to women, these will only be found in the dusty archives. Young western males simply “can’t relate” any longer.
Very relevant.
I love when a man puts his hand on the small of a woman’s lower back, as if to say, I’m here for you if you need me.
He thinks: ” My god, I have to steer the bitch into the kitchen.”
I love when a man wipes away a woman’s tears or pushes a strand of her hair away from her face, tucking it lovingly behind her ear.
He thinks: ” Messy twit, you look better now.”
I love how millions of men go off to work every day and then come home after long work hours to share in the housework and child-rearing.
He thinks: ” I work nine hours a day and come home to a hairy beach ball eating chips in the middle of a shit pen.”
I love how men contribute hundreds of millions of dollars every year to charities in the U.S. and across the globe.
He thinks: ” When was the last time you cracked open your wallet hhmm ? ”
I love when a man makes us feel like women.
He thinks: ” What else ? …as opposed to a shaved gerbil ? ”
I love when a man waits patiently inside an elevator to let all the ladies out first.
He thinks: ” Gotta check out all the asses to rate them.”
I love how a man who would go to the ends of the earth for a woman he loves.
He thinks: ” Interpol helped me track down the thief. ”
I love how a man who will rub his partner’s feet at the end of the day even though he’s had a hard day at work too.
He thinks: ” This menthol should take out the stench.”
I love the men who so bravely and willingly risk their lives in service to our country and to protect us all.
He thinks: ” Better to die on my feet than live with your incessant nagging.”
I love being Little Spoon.
He thinks: ” Well run off with the fucking dish ya dumb shit. ”
I love the way a man looks into his child’s eyes and loses himself.
He thinks: ” Here’s lookin’ at you kid. ”
I love that men’s various discoveries throughout the ages (scientific, mathematical, medical, etc.) have made our lives easier.
He thinks: ” Now she has a remote that opens the door for the pizza delivery.”
I love the way a man runs into the ocean like maniac.
He thinks: ” If I swim far enough I’ll make it to an island. ”
I love the shape of a man’s big, strong back when he leans over to pick up something heavy.
He thinks: ” Thank god I can’t see that smug look on her greasy face. ”
I love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman happy.
He thinks: ” Not playing ball this time baby. You screwed my friend and pranged my car.”
I love when a man tells a woman how lucky he is to have found her.
He thinks: ” Like I said, Interpol helped me.”
I love the way a man takes a woman’s delicate hand, brings it to his lips, and kisses it gently, showing how much he adores her.
He thinks: ” There’s no way in shit that she’s keeping this rock.”
I love when a man chows down on his food, as if only a 9.0 Richter Scale earthquake could shake him from his glorious feast.
He thinks: ” Faster faster.. the bitch is staring at me like she wants to ram an apple in my mouth.”
I love how a man in love thinks of his partner’s sexual pleasure before his own.
He thinks: ” Close the door, I’m having a wank. ”
I love a man who will do the jobs that most of us would never consider. Sewer inspector, anyone?
He thinks: ” For fuck sake ! You’re thirty two. Change your own damned nappy. “
rotflmao
*Standing ovation!*
-And the audience roars: ‘Encore!’
Too F’n Funny!!
Dr. F:
I had the New Years Blues and you snapped me out of it!!!! Thanks!!!!!
I laughed so hard I was crying. Just what the doctor ordered.
I love how a man who would go to the ends of the earth for a woman he loves.
He thinks: ” Interpol helped me track down the thief. ”
That was classic!! I nearly pissed my pants!!
As an undercover operative in a dress in my Radfem 101 class I typed that hurriedly.
You nearly pissed your pants… mate I nearly crapped mine.
Ah the irony Dr F, now I need to explain to my wife what the fuck I’m laughing so hard about ! Now which of those 20 to use?
Brilliant. That is all.
Oh gawd I needed that laugh…
and now for more shits and giggles ..Try to submit this to GMP as an article..
Please… yourself or anyone else is most welcome to do that or at least link it back to here.
That way I’ll really look like the bad guy won’t I ?
Hmmm… so they get the shits and we giggle ?
You know what… I reckon I like it.
16 of the 20 items on the list are things that men do for women. There were only four items that she listed that do not involve men doing something for women:
“I love being Little Spoon.”
“I love the way a man looks into his child’s eyes and loses himself.”
“I love the way a man runs into the ocean like maniac.”
“I love when a man chows down on his food, as if only a 9.0 Richter Scale earthquake could shake him from his glorious feast.”
I have no idea what Little Spoon is. Probably means something to her.
Running into the ocean like a maniac? Okay…
Men chowing down their food? Sounds like a polite way to say that men eat like pigs?
The ONLY item on that entire list that wasn’t either: 1) something that men do for women, 2) something that wasn’t an inside joke (Little Spoon?), or 3) something kind of insulting to men (men chowing down food, running “like maniac”) was:
“I love the way a man looks into his child’s eyes and loses himself.”
And even that one, I don’t like the way she phrased it. “Loses himself”? How about “sees himself”? Oh wait, that won’t work because her friend Hugo Schwyzer thinks that being a father has nothing to do with biology, that men should raise other men’s children unware and just be totally cool with it:
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/i-may-have-a-son-but-ill-never-know-for-sure/
Also, this one:
“I love the shape of a man’s big, strong back when he leans over to pick up something heavy.”
…is funny, because if you dig into the Agent Orange files, find the screen shots of the forum post about “what is good about men” (or something to that effect) and you’ll see that even the radfem sisters think that men are good for moving heavy objects. Quite a few of them agreed that men are good to have around to move heavy objects.
‘Little Spoon’ means she wants to be the one being held, while sleeping on the side close together.
“Quite a few of them agreed that men are good to have around to move heavy objects.”
Well, that places that on top of the list of things I will stop doing, both on a personal and professional level, from now on.
Say goodbye to the Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things:
Aaww, yes. I completely forgot about the lads in the RSPTTOT. Now I have to cancel my lifelong membership, and I was so looking forward to entering the Senior Lifters Ranks in a couple of years, even though it was killing my back. I can almost hear our esteemed chairmans condescending words already: ‘Indeed, it is a bad day for women and chivalry.’
Well, maybe they will consider letting Wingnut..ehh..Wingtips enter instead of me. His credentials seems impeccable, and with a wealthy background and a selfsacrificing attitude like he is displaying, he will fit right in with the rest of the crackpots.
I have to say, that I am going to miss the tuxedo and butterfly, along with the utter insanity of it all, though.
I love how a man in love thinks of his partner’s sexual pleasure before his own.
He thinks: ” Close the door, I’m having a wank. ”
There is not a woman I have been with that has ever topped my best, ahem, custard chuck. Now a few women have compared me to a certain celestial being but I digress.
Hey Scatters, I just realised something about your grav.
That Flintstone toon has a clam on a stick… get it ? A clam on a stick… Har Har.
P.S.
You make me pay homage to the puerile clown inside, ta.
Scoodley Wow Wow Wow
Hi Fye the master of scat would not lower his greatness to indulge in the antics of the clam fountain.
Her: OMG! OMG!! OMG!!!
Him: (Puzzled) -Ehh..-No,-we’re not even related..
True.
I’ve heard women say that their dildo isn’t a threat to a man. The same can’t be said in reverse. Modern advances in silicon create far superior pleasure than any woman I’ve ever had.
Plus, I don’t have to give anything back to get what I want which is almost like being a woman.
Only better because I’m not a woman.
… Custard chuck?!! … ROFLMAO!
But you’re right. And when a man realizes he can have more pleasure (ahem) on his own than he can get with a woman, that is one more hold Womanhood loses.
They lost me awhile ago. They are too much trouble and they are not worth the effort. My effort is focused on fighting their hateful ideology and openly laughing at them when they make fools of themselves which is often.
“I love it that you work in a sewer.”
And I love it that the majority of young Japanese men are going their own way. I can’t wait till this spreads. For every striking man there’s a lonely woman out there re-considering her tyrannical list of demands.
Women have nothing to do with it. I don’t give a rat’s ass if NAWALT applies to 1% of women or 99% of women. What matters is that government holds men, both individually and collectively, responsible for the choices made by women.
Men’s lives should be determined by the choices made by men.
Women’s lives should be determined by the choices made by women.
This is the definition of liberty, the long lost birthright of every American.
Agreed. But the government is controlled by a majority of female voters + white knight voters.
i guess we just need a few more typhonblues and GWWs and we should be fine^^
Yeah, having a blue-collar, industrial, utilities, railroad kind of background, I’ve been thinking with all this talk of strong backs and the things men do that women wouldn’t. What if we failed to show up for work together, just once? Just the fact that it is treated as optional or somehow unique to endeavor to do “unpleasant” tasks when they are done all day and all night by millions of men (almost exclusively) that make modern civilization both modern and civilized. And it doesn’t happen in an office or at a computer either.
GMP is what you get when women try to run a mens’ publication. Dolly for men. They have no idea what men are actually interested in and even when they get close they have no idea of how the deliver it.
re “spooning”…
What the Tuck Is Going on?
As I said, it may as well be Dolly. Even as a teenager I’d have found it shallow and immature.
Ms. Magazine:
“The Good Men Project takes on the daunting task of introducing, unlocking and dismantling the so-called Men’s Rights Movement”
Tom Matlack = good cop
Wonderful artical and yes I see the chivalry in her fantasy. I think it was GWW who said in her last artical that feminism and chivalry go hand in hand.
This is so typical of every pampered twat who claims to “love” men because of what they do vs. what they are. I have to wonder if a woman like this is even heterosexual. I see no innate desire or genuine attraction towards the male gender in her laundry list. She loves his strong back like I love my $14.99 chromatic guitar tuner. It’s incredibly handy in a pinch, in the dark, after I break a string during a gig. If it outlasts the batteries I put it in, I’m lucky.
It tickles her g-spot to get a foot rub from a man who’s 80 times more deserving and in need of one. Wow. Now that’s character. I wish I could be with a woman like that. I wish everything I did was only acknowledged when she needed self-aggrandizement for contributing less to the relationship. I wonder how she’d feel if a man told her he would only love her if she came home from the maternity ward after giving birth just to cook, clean, rub his back, wash his car, get up all night long with the baby while he slept, went to work while he took “paternity leave” and of course gave him all the sex he wants as she should know just what to say and what not to say to feel like a man.
Paul, you nailed it by calling her a child. Great article. It made my blood boil, but great article!
Many “straight” women are not heterosexual. They’re MEsexual. Rather than being attracted to men, they’re turned on by men being attracted to them.
Yep – spot on!
Chromatic tuner? I’m accustomed to a pitch-pipe. Blow on the right reed and get an accurate pitch for the song … tenor, baritone and bass parts learned their proper pitch during rehearsal.
Oh, sorry, I’m thinking music. To be exact, a-cappella music of the late 19th century … “barbershop”. I love that minor-seventh chord….
Just get any modern multi-effect unit. It’s like the back rub, the foot rub, and the blow job combined with the dependability of AC power. And all recent vintage models have a digital tuner built-in!
Funk guitarists love it, too.
Totally off-topic, but:
That’s come to be my own personal theme song I play in my head when arguing with misandrists. They don’t fight honest, the don’t fight fair, they have no sense of honor, honesty, decency, or justice, and they use “defend the womenfolk” as their unstated excuse for every contemptuous or outright evil thing they do say or advocate. I have to remind myself of that often.
I love it. It is fun to see the depths of stupidity the Feminists can stoop too. Someday we will look back and more importenty the Feminists will look back with great sorrow and weeping. They have sold themselves out and don’t even know it. I love to ignore women on a daily basis.
Oh yeah if it wasnt said in so many words the author is a piece of excrement.
FTSU!!!!
HurleyHacker
You nail stuff quite frequently don’t you ? Ever thought about sending in an article ?
Neely is a female enforcer of male utility to others (particularly women). All but two of her 20 “male qualities” define male value in terms of male utility.
Here are the two exceptions — here are the only things that Neely actually appreciates about men (other than their service and sacrefice):
I love when a man chows down on his food, as if only a 9.0 Richter Scale earthquake could shake him from his glorious feast.
I love the way a man runs into the ocean like maniac.
So, Neely the pampered queen of selfishness thinks that men are 90% appliances designed serve her needs, and 10% feral beasts that amuse her with their primitive maleness.
Here is the only thing that I love about Neely:
When dead, she will push up some beautiful daisies.
“Here is the only thing that I love about Neely:
When dead, she will push up some beautiful daisies.”
I think you are overestimating her.
This is why I f&@king love AVfM.
Ouch.
Enjoy the pain. Revel in the pain.
I wish this were the only “male attention” you would receive in your life – words-only insults, “words that wound”.
I also wish you had enough empathy to realize that men are people, too – that we strive, and hurt, and lose out, and will die alone without even a cat to console us.
No doubt Neely will misinterpret Antz’s black humour as “he wants me dead”, which is clearly not what he means.
Greetings brothers, from an Indian living in the US now. Happy to be here and learning more every day. I am actually from the atheist movement, which has also suffered from the parasitic growth of feminism within its ranks of late. Having been at the receiving end of anti-male law in India, it blew my mind to discover how widespread the problem is in the West.
A few years ago, I was attending a wedding of a chinese colleague here in NJ, and all the people there were of that ethnicity. I was his manager at work, and had gone alone, didnt have anyone to speak to there. Since my colleague was quite happy with me as a boss, and had told his father about it, he came by to thank me, but I couldnt understand shit. Then the english speaking bridesmaid came by to translate and subsequently chat, and I casually said “X[my colleague] is a good guy”, and she responded “Yeah.. He’s great. He takes care of everything for Y [the bride]“. At the time, I was thinking “what? how come she didnt say anything about what a smart guy he was, what an upbeat guy he was..etc”. It all made sense only recently. This cuts across all cultures (duh). I was an idiot to not have learnt that from my own experiences with Indian society.
“Name one obligation that women have towards men?”
Jean, that should be the only question men ask for the next fucking century.
Indeed. I think every man should take a step back from his relationships and ask “What’s in it for me?” How is all this risk and service worthwhile for me? How can I be a proud, happy, and fulfilled person if I am in a relationship where I am the only one expected to give anything.
So far I have yet to have anyone answer the question at hand. “What obligation does a woman have to a man?” I try to make this the focus of my arguments when dealing with feminists.
Jean, you are getting you question answered as we speak. The silence is deafening.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Define “equally”. How can you use a word that you assert there is no definition?
Really? Your list did not give the impression of ‘equal’
So very, very full of shit. It would be condescending if we did not see through you entirely.
“You’ve clearly never been with a woman who gives herself equally to you. She’s out there. I promise.”
I just KNEW that one would surface. Another re-written NAWALT excuse. Can’t you even see it yourself? And how many years would you think were sufficient to look, before concluding that AWALT?
Girl
You might be listening, but you ain’t hearing!
More properly –
You pretend you’re listening, Neely.
But you don’t give a rat’s ass to what’s being said.
Carly Simon (“You’re So Vain”) had a line about “looking into wide blue mirrors and enjoying the view.” This is my interpretation of your entire persona, life, ego, and gestalt.
You are the ultimate solipsist – there is nothing but you – so you have no recourse in your self-absorbed universe but to take this advice:
Go fuck yourself.
Actually it’s the opposite: She might be HEARING, but not LISTENING. Her ears work just fine, she’s just a dolt who refuses to understand.
Neely, there are NO women who give themselves “equally” because male obligations are enforced by laws and female obligations are optional.
I wonder what a feminist would say if I responded to a woman’s rape story or domestic abuse story with, “You just haven’t found the right man. Mr. Right is out there I promise”.
I’d be called a misogynist and troll. Why do you think we shouldn’t treat you the same way?
“You’ve clearly never been with a woman who gives herself equally to you. She’s out there. I promise.”
Don’t assume, some men may have been with equanimous prostitutes as opposed to others who unknowingly/unwittingly were married to un-equanimous prostitutes and only find out through divorce court.
Or, are you saying there are actually altruistic women out there replete with a top twenty list of things that their significant others like most about them? Show me! Still waiting for that top twenty list – waiting – waiting – still waiting – checking endangered specie lists, still waiting. :-/
You, Neely, have never been a woman who “gives herself” to any man, “equally” or not.
How can you “promise” such a thing? Do you know what constitutes “equally” to every man who’s reading here? Men have no need for pointless platitudes such as this. If you care about them as you say you do, you should have understood this already.
Nope, Chuck Testa. Now take your sorry ass back to the feminist drekhole whence it came.
“Name one obligation that women have towards men?”
Kudos Jean. This really does strip it down to the crux of the issue.
WTFever.
Reads like the standard women’s rag fare. In other words, “It’s all about ME and how he makes ME feel and what he can do for ME. And have I mentioned, ME?”
L’Etat, c’est moi!
Anagrams for “L’Etat, c’est moi.”
Cattiest Mole.
To test malice.
…and to be infantile because I am:
Locate me tits.
Tit cameltoes .
L’Etat, c’est moi = The state, it is me
So accurate. Although yours may be even more eloquent Dr.F.
Loved the article. The top 20 reminded me of the old joke “I love hard work” with the punchline “I could watch it all day” being left out.
I then went to Steinberg’s post. It just stuns me what passes for intelligent, adult opinion in some circles. This was her tribute to men.
“Others agreed with the general sentiment that many of this site’s [presumably Good Men Project] articles unfairly start with the basic premise that something is inherently wrong with men and men thus need to be socially engineered to become, well, good.
It was with this unfortunate perception in mind that I set out to create a list of things that I love about men.”
One thing is for sure. When something heavy needs lifting, Neely will be too busy watching the shape of your back to be getting on the other end and helping.
As for the “unfortunate perception”, which is the PC way of saying “wrong, dickhead”, the list seems to me a list of “20 ways you can get me to love you”. This is most definitely social engineering.
It’s a royal “We are pleased when we are served correctly”, if you don’t mind.
Just think! If I put my hand on her back, wipe the tears, sacrifice myself, do the work, make her come, inspect the sewer, come myself, run into the ocean … I could get to be Big Spoon.
Damn! I forgot to massage her feet! Typical male!
+1
Holy crap, you’ve just pegged her perfectly!
Hey Neely, looks like we have your no#
Fantastic article Paul.
If MRAs can teach other men that we are living beings too, then maybe the next step will be recognizing these parasites for what they are – not real people.
Grotesque infantile handicaps the ruination upon the rest of us male and female.
Rod.
Roderick, in all sympathy, I no longer believe that anyone can teach “these parasites” that men are people too.
Worst of all, “these parasites” have an equal, or greater, voice in the legislature.
I try to pretend that I’m not really here, I don’t really exist. All the while, I’m working out ways that I can leave this “greatest nation on Earth” and live somewhere that I’m not the Ultimate Enemy.
A very fine article. I must admit, I could only see the “what men can do for me” in a few of those points. I am grateful that there are a growing number of experts out there who can point out the selfishness in posts like this. I salute you as a man who served and a man who stands for the truth.
It’s a good question, what obligations do women owe men?
Any woman who calls herself a feminist that answers with anything other than….”nothing”…..is lying.
They all believe that any service of any kind they perform for any man, including their husbands, fathers of their children…and protectors and providers……is optional…..and the absence of any provision of service to their man…..of any kind……in no way reduces his obligations to her….legally..socially…morally.
The laundry list of demands and services that women expect men to provide for women is based on nothing they provide for us. It’s based simply on…….we exist….therefore you owe us. We are women…..the divine and entitled.
They seek to, and are succeeding in having all their demands enshrined in law, while simultaneously eliminating any obligations to men at all.
I have to laugh at women who throw around insults at men who won’t commit….using all sorts of shaming language……commitment phobic is a good one. Who is commitment phobic when it is women that want and have gotten all obligations to their so-called commitments legally eradicated. The only marriage or relationship they are interested in is one where the man is held to his commitments……and the woman never had any to start with….and can not be held to any promises made…..or code of behavior……or provision of service.
Yes, women now are only good for temporary immediate gratification…….nothing more…….because they have removed the requirement to provide more….or even to continue to provide that…..so they have no value anymore based on the provision of anything other than what they provide right now…….right here……this minute…..their promises are worth nothing……contracts with them are worthless…..so a guy really can’t focus on anything except any value he might obtain right now……what might that be?
Marriage is female slavery… and yet they can’t stop thinking about it.
Marriage, for a male, is the enslavement of himself to the female. He becomes her slave.
That is what you mean, isn’t it?
I was using their own words here. I do see now how little say a man is allowed in marriage. Far less now with Marriage 2.0.
Very well stated.
Thanks, Paul, for linking to my piece.
You make some interesting points, and I will think more about them over the coming days and months. I always appreciate a different point of view, even if it’s harsh. You were honest with your feelings, and I appreciate candid feedback. I have long been a critic of many aspects of feminism. I wrote a piece on Blast Magazine called “Feminism: The Winter of Men’s Discontent” about the rise of misandry and men’s growing resentment of the feminist movement: http://blastmagazine.com/the-magazine/culturefashion/kinky-stuff/feminism-the-winter-of-men’s-discontent/.
I would love your thoughts on it. I am well aware of the growing angst among men, as you will see from that piece. I have also written the below pieces that are critical of feminism and feminists. I provide you with these links not to court favor (not likely to happen, anyway), but simply to show you that I am not as one-dimensional and narcissistic as you make me out to be. Here are the links:
Analyzing Park Slope and Skirtgate:
http://blastmagazine.com/the-magazine/culturefashion/kinky-stuff/analyzing-park-slope-and-skirtgate/
When Feminism Flames: A Twitter Conversation Gone Wrong (I take on Amanda Marcotte in this piece):
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/when-feminism-flames-a-twitter-conversation-gone-wrong/
And, my critique of feminism as it pertains to hook-up culture and my experience within it:
Is Feminism to Blame for Hook-up Culture? (in which I go up against Hugo Schwyzer)
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/is-feminism-to-blame-for-hook-up-culture-a-debate/
Looking forward to your feedback.
Best wishes,
Neely Steinberg
http://twitter.com/NeelySteinberg
Your article “Feminism: The Winter of Men’s Discontent” is a good article because you don’t condescend to the anti-misandry/men’s rights movement. I would love to see an article like that in say, Time Magazine. I’ve never heard of Blast. Nevertheless, any fair treatment of men’s rights in a newspaper or magazine like that is appreciated, I would say, since what occurs more often is silence or ridicule.
I have read the links provided by Ms Steinberg and It is refreshing to read her articles which question feminist hypocrisy – an issue in which we are well-steeped. It is quite a novelty to have a pro-feminist writer ‘drop in’ and not come across as a raving lunatic. (For confirmation, please peruse the archives).
I hope that Ms Steinberg understands that Dr Elam runs site that welcomes sincere and thoughtful debate. There is room for humour, but our deep concern over the erosion of men’s rights overides everything else.
Ms Steinberg, as men’s growing antagonism towards feminism is something which interests you, I hope you take this opportunity to understand the dynamics causing this, and communicate our concerns accurately and fairly.
The Men’s Rights Movement is comprised of men and women from all walks of life. Our diversity is one of our strengths and would shock feminists if they ever bothered to engage us in good faith.
Dr Elam was not being harsh. He was highlighting the exploitative nature of your wishlist. Male utility and disposibility are prominent concerns for MRA’s. Your expectations reveal the kind of entitled attitude which informs how our feminist-run society treats men. This is not how he ‘feels’ about it. It is a fact, which Dr Elam John the Other and a range of other writers have articulated with ample evidence and citations. Please take time to read some of the articles here.
I am curious how your articles are received by your readers (the comments are sparse). Do women readers dismiss your claims of misandry? Do they distance themselves from radical feminism with classic Not All Women Are Like That denials? Have you seen the excellent GirlWritesWhat videos in which one of the most eloquent MRA’s around skewers feminist hypocricy? Are you aware of just how much of a burden a woman with your wishlist would actually be to a man?
The men and women of AVFM also appreciate different points of view as long as they don’t devolve into the ranting and shaming nonsense that usually passes for feminist discussion.
Welcome to the discussion, Ms Steinberg.
I am glad to be a part of it, AndyBob, except, of course, when commenters wish you dead. That kind of stinks.
Are you a self-identified feminist/femaleist? Former feminist/femaleist? Waffling X-chromosome Klanswoman? Klan collaborator and enabler? Because the shit that they (you?) have done to Men kind of stinks a little also, too.
In standing by your list, Neely, perhaps you might counter each of those points with how YOU offer EQUAL compensation.
Spooning is one thing, but how do you reciprocate a returning soldier “equally”?
By not getting knocked up by his best friend while he’s over there? By waiting until he’s somewhat recovered from his amputations before delivering the divorce papers? By not using his deployment to obtain full custody and moving his children 1,500 miles away?
How do you first thank a man for coming home from his Job “I” Won’t Do of inspecting sewers to vacuuming floors and doing dishes? What is YOUR “equal” contribution, since you have stated you don’t do that?
If you were to be truly honest about it, you wouldn’t be standing by your list because the only thing “equal” about it is your selfishness and self indulgence is completely equal in magnitude to his self sacrifice and selflessness.
He didn’t wish you dead. What he’s saying is that women that see men as beasts of burden, appliances, etc, are detrimental to men, not an asset, not helpful, not anything good for us. As such, pushing up daisies by comparison, by not being detrimental at least, is a service…….probably because some guy can pick them to give to his girlfriend…..oh well…….better then having to pay for them I suppose
He didn’t wish you dead, Neely. It was black humour. Grow up.
I’m glad you had the courage to come here, address us, and respond as a woman who is worth something. I respect your sense of humor, your open mindedness, and your willingness to listen. Thank you for some rare sanity in a female world full of inane insanity.
That said, I’d be grateful were you to address the false foundations of the hate movement that is mainstream feminism. What’s really ‘harsh’ here is that fact that this ugly monkey movement, alone among others, is able to be spread bigoted falsehoods with near perfect impunity, is increasingly sponsored, fed, and enforced by the state, and is immune to the most effective disinfectant (sunshine) thanks to the shenanigans that FIRE: http://thefire.org/ is fighting nationwide. That ‘harshness’ which is destroying male (and female) lives by the millions is the real story here.
For those reasons, “resentment’ is far too gentle a term for what most men in the know feel for the feminist movement. I loath the lovey-dovey reverse-sexist ‘justice’ racket. I detest the inane ‘equality’ idiocy. I abhor the perverted poor-me monkey business whose sole purpose is to institute female supremacism at (patriarchal) gunpoint.
I could seriously consider SOME of your “I’m here if you need me” points were I to see good women do some serious battle to be there for us males in terms of securing us from institutional feminist subjugation. I don’t believe you and your sisters yet understand what a huge mistake you’ve made by allowing your gender bigot Sisters to spread anti-male hate for you. On this one, it takes men a long time to become enraged but once that happens there is hell to pay because we never forget these kind of below the belt blows…especially when they come from the very sex we are brainwashed from birth to adore, to respect and to protect. Hopefully, in the future you will write articles that are better informed about the ugly undercurrents that have been formed by four plus decades of undiluted hatred from your sex to ours. There will be no going back to the good ole days before women restore respect to men en-masse.
I really don’t know why you guys (Primal and andybob) are being so complimentary about this woman for not acting live a raving radfem.
Women aren’t supposed to act like raving radfems. They don’t get points just for acting like normal people.
“I respect your sense of humor, your open mindedness, and your willingness to listen. Thank you for some rare sanity in a female world full of inane insanity.”
Please. You guys are starting to sound like Tom Matlack. All she did was not insult you, and you’re fawning all over her. Did you somehow forget about her narcissistic little list of things men should do for women? Scroll back up to read it.
Steinberg writes for a publication dedicated to dismantling men’s civil and human rights. A publication which presumes that men are ‘broken’ and need to be ‘fixed’ by having their humanity stripped away from them. To them, a man is only ‘good’ as long as he is willing to eradicate his own identity and serve his female superiors in whatever trivial ways they desire. Read Steinberg’s list again in that context and you’ll appreciate how repulsive it is. Just think about what she’s saying: unless you are willing to act like a broken slave before women, you are unworthy of love. This is nothing less than a reversal of ‘patriarchy.’ The equivalent would be to say that women had better damn well get on with the cooking, cleaning and spreading their legs when they’re told, because that’s all they are good for. Oh, and don’t they just have the cutest smiles.
That’s what this is about, and as MRAs you should be ashamed at not perceiving that this list – like everything else from the GiMP – is designed to put men in a subservient position to women. ‘Good’ men are supposed to follow these twenty points to the letter, regardless of how badly women treat them, regardless of the erosion of men’s rights. You should still be willing to kneel down and kiss her feet, you worthless male scum, because your right to existence is entirely dependent on what you can do for her. You have no rights or humanity of your own.
That’s what it says to me.
I think it is a bit presumptuous to suggest that Mr Primal and I are not cognizant of the exploitative nature of Ms Steinberg’s wishlist. It is a masterpiece of borderline aspirations. In other words, pretty typical of the servile role women demand of men these days. The fact that Ms Steinberg actually dispenses relationship advice to equally deluded Little Spooners boggles the mind. Your scolding admonitions are a bit uncalled for.
Mr Snark, I wouldn’t call “not..a raving lunatic” a foot-kissing compliment. Re-read my comment and you will see that it is extremely guarded. That is because I read some of Ms Steinberg’s articles during a break at work and found they consistently challenged feminist memes. I was intrigued – and, yes, amazed that she actually showed up and gave a decent account of herself. Sure she was bit cold, but then Doctors Elam and F had just ripped her a couple of news ones (BTW, good one Dr F).
Now that I have read Ms Steinberg’s articles in detail (I was wrong about the sparse comments – they are numerous and very revealing) I am even more intrigued. She questions feminist hypocrisy again and again. She raises the issues of false allegations, victim-mongering, female-on-male violence and the patriarchy fallacy. Her concerns are consistent. It wouldn’t surprise me if Ms Steinberg topped a few feminazis’ shitlists.
Interestingly, there is no mention of male utility. This may explain why she is blind to the exploitative nature of her wishlist. Ms Steinberg is no dummy. She effortlessly revealed Amanda Marcotte as a bullying buffoon and bigot. I am curious to know if she is aware of the futility of arguing with feminists. I suspect that she is.
I have no zealous drive to convert Ms Steinberg to become a red-pill chomping MRA. However, I am curious to see just how sincere her concerns for our diminishing rights really are. How does she reconcile her professed concerns for men with the total lack of concern revealed in her wishlist?
Ms Steinberg could be a complete charlatan, a concern troll here to amuse herself among the Big Spooners. She may be on the level – unless we engage her, we will never find out.
Interesting. There seems to be consistent praise for her writings by those who have read them, and I trust those giving the accounts. However I’m not interested in reading anything until I see a message indicating that she understands the concerns over her list. She tells us she wants “to think more about the points raised over the coming days and months”, but I wonder why the long delay… the points raised can be immediately understood and empathized with – all she needs to do is empathize with the stated male viewpoint and then respond from the heart about it… takes about one minute. Why the need of months to perform a simple operation of empathy?
Something isn’t adding up.
Thanks, AndyBob, for your thoughtful, respectful comment. Much appreciated. The comments on this article gave me pause for concern about what I had created and I have been mulling it over in my head (I like time to process as opposed to having knee-jerk reactions). I understand where some men are coming from, but never in a million years did I mean for that list to come off as a form of misandry in any way, shape or form. Which is why I stand by it, because my intentions were true and came from a good place that in no way sees a man’s sole purpose as being in service to women. Absolutely ridiculous. I see men and women as being in service to each other equally. And I understand how men have come to believe that the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.
I left a more in-depth reply to Dr. F about my list. Check it out. Looking forward to your feedback.
Best,
Neely
“I see men and women as being in service to each other equally.”
Let’s see your BF’s list to see if that is really true. What do you put into a relationship that is “equal” to your list about men?
“never in a million years did I mean for that list to come off as a form of misandry in any way, shape or form. Which is why I stand by it, because my intentions were true and came from a good place”
Just because you didn’t intend disrespect, doesn’t mean it wasn’t disrespectful.
It doesn’t matter to me if your intentions come from a good place or a bad place. Either way, I’m still burdened with having to work in a sewer 8 hours every day, and you’re not. What gives?
Exactly, though she’s not really acting like a normal person. She is over here pretending, at least for the most part. Well that’s something I guess, maybe she’ll learn something by mistake. I get the feeling that is happening like red pill overdose when her initial and real motives are more of a non anonymous agent orange wannabe.
Though from my perception, Primal is just endulging her (as she is pretending to endulge us.) I think this has it’s purpose. It’s a form of engagement.
What you entirely fail to understand is that it is not just ‘feminism’ that men have come to resent.
‘Feminism’ is just the name we give to the modern, radical expression of gynocentrism.
What we resent could more accurately be termed ‘female narcissism.’
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s great that you love how certain men run into the ocean and such things. You are blithely ignorant of the fact that men have to work in sewers because women are given preference in employment and have taken all the nice, clean office jobs. No man grows up wanting to work in a sewer. It’s not a goddamn FAVOR to you.
And really, I think it’s sweet that you think an exhausted man who spends his days breaking his back to bring money to you should have rubbing your feet as his #1 priority when he gets home.
On that note, I decided to try my hand at this and come up with 20 things I love about women. It was hard, let me tell you! But here you go. I have been as honest as I could.
1. I love that, when you have sex with a woman, there’s always the chance that she won’t falsely accuse you of rape later on.
2. I love that women will let you believe that the child is yours, fulfilling your dreams of fatherhood even when it’s technically not true.
3. I love that women are so generous that they will let you pay for everything.
4. I love how women are confident enough to pursue female supremacy, yet coy enough to always call it ‘equality.’
5. I love how women save us mere men from ourselves, by infiltrating male spaces and then taking them over to serve their own agenda.
6. I love how women take men’s concerns and men’s civil liberties so very seriously.
7. I love how women can perform equally well to men in everything and also have the foresight to set up 50% quotas to make sure that they never accidentally underperform anywhere.
8. I love how women think of their own sexual pleasure first, and of men’s sexual pleasure not at all.
9. I love how women make use of us otherwise useless males by giving us white feathers or otherwise shaming us into going off to die for them.
10. I love how cute it is that women blame each and every man for everything wrong in the world, yet freak out completely over the smallest criticism when it’s directed at themselves.
11. I love the way that women flirt their way out of speeding tickets.
12. I love the passion with which women rush to defend a woman who mutilates her partner’s genitals.
13. I love how women can get any man thrown in jail at any time just by picking up the phone, but most of the time, choose not to. That’s trust right there.
14. I love how women talk about vibrators and female orgasms as if they are a matter of divine intervention, yet ridicule men for masturbating.
15. I love how women have appointed themselves arbiters of all discourse on gender and sexuality.
16. I love how women brag about their independence, but still demand help or protection from men when anything goes wrong.
17. I love the big chips on the shoulders of women who think that society owes them a living.
18. I love how women can commit all sorts of heinous crimes and avoid punishment by batting their eyelids and pretending to be sowwy.
19. I love how women believe in the power of emotional displays as a solution to the problems posed by rational and free discussion.
20. I love how women think that having friendly tiffs with reprobates such as Hugo Schwyzer and Amanda Marcotte qualifies them as pro-male.
Quadroopl, quadrupl, quadripl plussed. Etch it in stone.
You have my deepest respect, Sir.
That was awesome.
I’m beginning to see more pretending from ‘nice’ Neely too. Maybe I was premature. In which case forgive me.
Well, for my part, I think I was unduly harsh to you and andybob in my last message to you; and for that I apologise. So let’s consider it water under the bridge.
With the new relevations about Mzzz. Steinberg (including her openly mocking male victims of genital mutilation) … I am appalled, but not much surprised. Seen this sort of thing before, which is why I was suspicious. During the Futrelle saga there was some woman hanging around here very earnestly, acting like she cared and just wanted to ‘understand’, while over at Futrelle’s blog she was talking about “MRA’s tiny dicks” (which even Futrelle reprimanded her for, strangely enough).
Hats off to you matey, you were on the money the whole time eh ?
I was on the tortoise.
No apologies necessary, Mr Snark.
You were right. I was wrong. Just got overly excited to read a woman taking Ms Marcotte down a few pegs.
Dr F and I are old enough to know better.
No problem. I’m not one of those girls who gets all ‘offended’ from ‘insensitive’ schooling. Harshness can be very helpful in seductive situations like these so bring it on wherever you feel the need.
@ andybob and Dr. F
I was actually comforted that you gave her the benefit of the doubt. Strength is in both our diversity and our unity. They must ebb and flow efficiently as circumstances dictate. Ultimately the plurality won the day.
@ Primal. You’re female. Oh, nice.
@Perseus
Hardly.
Damn! This is truly special. Thank you Mr. Snark. I hope cupcake enjoys this as much as I did.
Amazing(and depressing) list.
Omg I think I came at #10.
#21
I love how women feign outrage (bitch) about men objectifying them for their sexual appearance, while dressed like sluts and openly and aggressively objectifying men for their status and money.
#22
I love how women have the depraved sense of authority to dictate what men should value in women, but will go ape hysterical if a man so much as orders dinner for a woman.
“I love how women feign outrage (bitch) about men objectifying them for their sexual appearance, while dressed like sluts..”
*Bangs head against table repeatedly while shouting ‘DOH!’
“…I am not as one-dimensional and narcissistic as you make me out to be.”
The only time Paul used the word “narcissism” was in direct reference to your 20 points, which he called “twenty narcissistic fantasies”.
And he was dead right they are 20 narcissistic statements. Each of the 20 compliments read like a Hallmark card that says nothing about the recipiant of the card but everything about how the recipient makes the giver of the card feel good, eg. “This card is for the one i love, you make me feel happy and cherished and you always make me feel like the most important person on earth”.
You have not even attempted to own up to the contention that your 20 compliments read as narcissistic statements. Your response is one of dissmissal: “You make some interesting points, and I will think more about them over the coming days and months.”
And this comment: “I always appreciate a different point of view, even if it’s harsh. You were honest with your feelings, and I appreciate candid feedback.” More vacuous fobbing off that says nothing about the criticism made against your 20 comments.
I recommend you talk directly to the point Paul made and tell us whether you can see that all of the compliments you gave men revolve around what men do to serve others, rather than what men are as people in thier own right. Have you ever considered that we can praise men for what they do for themselves- like cook, look after thier health, enjoy sport, fly model aeroplanes, commune with nature, meditate, go adventuring, mountain climbing, having fun, socialising, or following thier hearts?
I’m really stunned at the way you have sidestepped the core issue and gone straight to promoting your writings – writings i won’t be looking at until you openly explore the issues raised in this article.
Your response confirms narcissism – all you have done is promote yourself.
It’s obvious the GMP commissioned you to write a piece conveying that today’s men are not “good” enough and you agreed.
Feminism is only an off-shoot of the problem. Widespread misandry is. Feminism derived from chivalry – the promoting of female pain as a thousand times more important than male pain. And now we have the next derivation: female supremacy(while keeping parts of feminism and chivalry, of course.)
As women aged 30 and under are out-earning their male counterparts and schools continue to massively fail boys, we’re going to witness how women aren’t nearly as generous with their wealth as men have been. Women currently control 80% of spending. Men have allocated their assets through marriage, radically anti-male family courts, and many government programs. The future right wing will have a majority of women. Men will be pushed deep into poverty. I wish you good luck dealing with the first historical brotherhood transcending class, culture, and even many nationalities.
re: “It’s obvious the GMP commissioned you to write a piece conveying that today’s men are not “good” enough and you agreed.”
Utter nonsense. GMP doesn’t pay its writers. Writers submit whatever topics they want.
“writers submit whatever topics they want.”
I may have been wrong about being paid, but the quoted is at best misleading and at worst a blatant lie. That site has a clear agenda and its articles have a strong common denominator. You knew what the site was about and played into it. It’s an insult to our intelligence to claim that there is zero communication between Lisa Hicks and the writers.
There are a huge amount of MRAs who were IP-blocked from posting there, without resorting to profanity or personal insults.
Moobz bragged that he recieved a nominal fee for the hatchet job on MRAs that was commissioned by GMP.
THAT’S all you got out of his comment?
“THAT’S all you got out of his comment?”
In fairness, the rest of my comment wasn’t about her. It was about the forthcoming epic plight of men. Why would she care? – Her constituency are the young women who will cause that plight.
“Utter nonsense. GMP doesn’t pay its writers. Writers submit whatever topics they want.”
Ah. So you wanted to write an article about male utility as the price of love?
j/k
maybe.
Nothing is free in this world. You’d have to pay us more than you know to read GMP’s inane nonsense. Sites (supposedly) run for men by feckless female CEOs who censor the most interesting content/contributors in favor of feebleminded ‘community-building’ (read brand building) will never en-gender respect…other than from other feckless females or really bored males.
I read the links you provided and quite frankly you’ve disarmed me.
The transparency of your writing had me for a moment regretful of my lampooning your list of twenty, but it was fleeting and I would happily do it again.
I say that as it’s abundantly clear you have wider vision of the broad brushstrokes with this sort of thing, and take it at it’s humorous face value and not as a wallop to yourself.
This sets you as wheat from feminist chaff of which you have underlined repeatedly your suspicion of it’s presentation.
Until I read your articles, and was then able to put myself in your head, I was sure that the author of the offending list was a fluffy headed twit with a giggly disposition. You know the sort I’m talking about. We see them all the time on the air telling stories about cute Panda bears or penning tripe with titles like, “How to prepare a three course meal for kids at school.”
Quite frankly you astounded me from the shallow waft of ‘The List’ to the pen of your ‘real stuff’.
Then it occured to me that this gulf could be in fact due to your writing from a romantic heart in quick time before the unexplored thought of, well anything else really.
If this is the way it is, (and I am sure I am right until you say it’s not) then your ‘crime’ here is to have come off short to the rudderless barge of knowing the pains of another sex without discourse first.
Quite simply: How could you have known a bunch of us here, men and women, would find ‘The List’ laughable at the mildest ?
Mr Elam found it appreciably annoying and therefore worthy of an article, and kudos to him because it deserves a platform for dissection (and in my case a too tempting offer of ridicule) and as is the way of the jungle it has been proffered for public consumption.
Speaking for myself and I know the vast majority, you are very welcome to come here to give us your thoughts, bring news from another perspective, and I’ll bet you that while there might be disagreements here and there, your being here with honest presentation and intelligence will always be met with same said. We like that timbre of interaction here and it’s a good bet you do as well.
As far as A. Marcotte is concerned, you have been given a slice of unfettered honesty about her method of being. Reading your twitter exchange had me frustrated from your side of the monitor and I was unsurprised by the knee jerk and defensive belligerence from that stripe of feminist. She fills the grab bag of NPD to overflowing, and because of it, the motility of the scribes at DSMIV central are not dissimilar to the Apollo 13 technicians in response to “Huston, we have a problem.”
Not only that, but you can be assured that A.M’s method is no angel in an electric blue crowd, and is quite the ‘plain Jane’ in the skunk pond of feminist brokerage and peddlers.
“Until I read your articles, and was then able to put myself in your head, I was sure that the author of the offending list was a fluffy headed twit with a giggly disposition.”
That’s just one of the roles that women like Neely play to be manipulative: acting like an innocent little kitten in need of protection. They can turn it on and off like a lightswitch. Any time they need you to do something for them.
I upvoted you for a really great point.
I see the same thing with coy first and then bring the hammer down with workplace entitlement, footpath stone walling and just about anything else.
I’ll maintain though (until neelysteinberg says otherwise) that ‘the list’ wasn’t by design a girly tool of leverage.
I read every word of her links, and because of her obvious chagrin for feminist behaviour gives great evidence that her motivation for authoring that ridiculous and stiflingly silly piece was motivated by something else.
I stick like flies on a dead bear that her drive as it were, was based on a misspent and benign gush of unfocused romance and nothing more. I take it in good faith at this point at face value and nothing more.
Her scuffle with Marcotte was illuminating of her truer self, and with Hugo Schwayer she says,
“…I mentioned to Hugo that I was intrigued by our contrasting positions—his steadfast defense of feminism and critiquing of men versus my critiquing of feminism and steadfast defense of men—not because we disagree in the ideological sense, but because of our tendency to stray from defending our own gender.”
This is not a monkey at a keyboard, this is someone who is I think in the process of unsettling change from delivered mindset to something different.
She could have taken a smoother path of less resistance by not coming here on this site but here she is.
Also, I put to you the image of every feminist reading ‘the list’ would eye roll to the point of a migraine and she, the author, would know this before she hit the publish button yet she did regardless.
We are looking at the product of ignorance only, and if this is a crime then as a former feminist I implore you to concentrate on my actions in response to my former unknowing or stupidity..
I’ve put myself in the lion’s den; I realize that and am woman enough to take what everyone has said. Thank you for your feedback.
I’ve been critical of Marcotte and her ilk for the way they respond to different viewpoints with scorn, disrespect, rudeness, condescension, etc. It gets to the point where it makes one think twice about even engaging. I have to say, Dr. F., other than your comment and a few others, most of the comments are in the same vein of Marcotte and her followers. I get it: There is a ton of anger, and there should be for many reasons. I’m intrigued by where that anger comes from. Marcotte was raped; another feminist I know was abandoned by her father when she was young – this makes it easier (but not necessarily right) to understand this anger. Because they were wronged by men doesn’t mean all men are bad and need to be socially engineered. Same goes for men who have had terrible experiences with women. I’d be interested in hearing people on this site’s personal stories to see how those experiences have shaped their thinking. Your comment, Dr. F., at least recognized that I have a broad view of the issues, and I thank you for that.
I confess that you are right, however, regarding your comment about the list coming from a romantic motivation in me. I have fallen madly in love with a man whom I met about a year ago. I have never felt this way before. Many of the items on the list stem from our love for one another and my appreciation of all the ways in which he loves me so selflessly. That being said, this list was not ignorant or a silly tool of leverage, and I stand by it. The list was a way to thank him (I’ve never been treated so wonderfully by a man before) and other men (like my father and brother) whose selfless qualities, integrity, work ethic, etc. I so admire. It has nothing to do with viewing men as subservient in any way.
But I do think it is a reasonable question to ask me to view how I view men based on the things I listed. Again, I can say with all honesty that I don’t view men as being in service to women at all. I think women and men should be in service to each other. I think my boyfriend could write an equally long list of things I do for him, and I would never view it as a chauvinistic piece of writing. I would have viewed it as: “Wow, isn’t that so sweet that he appreciates all the things I do for him to make his life easier, happier, more fulfilling.” I also have to wonder: Do men not enjoy making women happy? Does it not feed something inside of them? Take giving sexual pleasure before their own with a woman they love, for example. I don’t characterize it as being “in service” to women, but as I have found, it is more driven by a desire to do things out of love and appreciation for the woman they are with. I could say the same for women: that we enjoy giving a man we are in love with sexual pleasure before our own, because it makes a man happy and feel good, and to see that makes us happy. That’s just one example.
When I showed my boyfriend this article, here’s what he had to say: I have never met a more loving, caring individual than you. b/c our love permeates all levels of our being, both of our feelings and needs are always at the forefront of each of our minds. Thats why decisions can sometimes be tough (dinner place, movie, etc)….its b/c we care about each other’s needs TOO MUCH sometimes to even make a decision! and to end it…..a lot of this blog is centered around the idea that “to get Neely’s love as a reward, you need to do xyz.” This is the main argument, and where the main assumption isn’t true. I do those things for you b/c I love you, you fulfill me, and you are just as caring where reciprocity is concerned. Its a two way street, and we both do it for the most unselfish of reasons.
I know some will say he’s been brainwashed, that he’s saying these things as a result of feminist indoctrinations, and there’s nothing I can say to that other than “You’re wrong.”
Re: a commenter upbraiding me for giving thanks to men who serve this country to protect us all. I was flat-out flabbergasted. I have been a strong supporter of the military (currently, and rightfully so, a volunteer profession). I’ve given money to different charities – Veterans of Foreign Wars, Homes for Troops, etc. Was I being upbraided for being a woman and saying that? Am I not supposed to show my support for the troops because men are dying for me (a female) and thus I should not have an opinion on the matter?
My coming here was not an example of being coy or manipulative. Hogwash. It was simply to set the record straight, to show that there are reasonable women out there who appreciate and love men (not for their utility to women), and see major flaws with feminist doctrine.
Looking forward to your thoughts.
Neely
@Neely,
I’d love to see the list from your boyfriend. I think that would really demonstrate the point of differing levels of expectations and narcissism between men and women.
This issue has very little to do with feminism and much more to do with traditional feminine privilege in defining gender roles.
neelysteinberg:
“I can say with all honesty that I don’t view men as being in service to women at all.”
“I think women and men should be in service to each other.”
The fact that you’ve bothered to answer the simple premise posed in the article re should men be in one-way service to women -to which you reply no and that it should be two-way and reciprocal- is good enough for me to let the original post go.
I would have liked for you to be more up front regarding the fact that your post was poorly delivered and was responsible for misleading the reader about your true views. It also sounds a little snarky to blame “men’s bad experiences” for taking offence to your post when in fact the offence was directly caused by you being unclear… you must remember you were writing it on a profeminist website, and profeminists advocate male servitude. So how about you take some responsibility here? You may cop some angst due to your failure to do so.
Anyways thats all from me. It’s good that you finally contextualised your 20 points… but remember you are (to a large extent) responsible for the misunterstanding.
I may wander over and have a look at your antifeminist writings shortly… see what all the fanfare is about.
“most of the comments are in the same vein of Marcotte and her followers. I get it: There is a ton of anger, and there should be for many reasons. I’m intrigued by where that anger comes from. Marcotte was raped”
I appreciate the dig at Marcotte. I couldn’t care less what she’s suffered, it doesn’t justify her hate.
However, I dispute you drawing a parallel with MRAs. I didn’t need to be raped to see that men are getting the shaft everywhere. Personally, I’ve been unaffected. There is no irrational source for my anger, as you suggest. Just neutral observation of the world around me. It’s not parallel to feminism, because men’s position in society is not parallel to women’s.
Just look at your own article. ‘I love men because of all the ways they make ME feel special and all the things they do for ME.’ A man would never get away with writing that about a woman. He would be strung up. He’d never write again. In contrast, a man writing about his love for women would have to pay tribute to her strength, her independence, her virtue, etc. See, when men write about their admiration for women, it’s all about HER; when women write (supposedly) about their admiration for men, it’s all about HER.
That should give you some indication about our relative positions, and that disparity is the source of my anger. Not some demon from my past that I can’t let go of.
Also, re:
“I’ve been critical of Marcotte and her ilk for the way they respond to different viewpoints with scorn, disrespect, rudeness, condescension, etc.”
Let’s remember that it was you who started off being condescending, yes?
This article is a RESPONSE to you being disrespectful. Ok?
Dr F, you are a wise and eloquent soul.
The MRM must remain honest and fair. Ms Steinberg’s articles reveal a growing awareness in the author that feminism is giving off a repellent stench – and she intends to find its source.
When reading her articles, I keep expecting her to start siding with the herd, but she never does. The Twitter exchange with Ms Marcotte is revealing. We see her nipping and gnawing the heels of the grumpy beast until she trips the registered bigot onto her arse. I don’t think Ms Steinberg likes feminists at all. Her exchange with the sleazy Mr Schwyzer is typical of her consistent defence of men.
Then there’s the wishlist. Ms Steinberg’s gravatar shows that she is very young. Perhaps she has never had a boyfriend to show her that no man with any self worth (read Dr Elam’s title) would tolerate such servitude. Perhaps she is not yet old enough to know what we know: women, despite what they say, despise subservient men. Perhaps Ms Steinberg doesn’t really know what she wants and has simply filled this black hole with images from popular culture showing all women as deserving pampered princesses.
I understand Mr Snark’s cynicism. We don’t spit on the NAWALT myth because it amuses us. As Dr F says, until Ms Steinberg indicates otherwise, I am more than open to hearing more.
@ Dr. F @ Neely
“I’m intrigued by where that anger comes from. Marcotte was raped; another feminist I know was abandoned by her father when she was young – this makes it easier (but not necessarily right) to understand this anger.”
Oh, big bad waape. Men are assaulted all the time. Get over yourself.
Intrepid, aren’t we.
Hm. Child theft, anyone? Codified hatred and theft against the men who’s backs and blood built and support this civilization, by the misnomer “affirmative action”?
“I confess that you are right, however, regarding your comment about the list coming from a romantic motivation in me.”
The romantic is the personal, your Team Vagina instituted the personal as political. Give them thanks.
@neelysteinberg
Wow, now this post really is most telling. Reading between the lines reiterates quite clearly your stance regarding your ‘list’. In fact it highlights the basis of your list.
Also “most of the comments are in the same vein of Marcotte and her followers”… Reeeally?
“I’d be interested in hearing people on this site’s personal stories to see how those experiences have shaped their thinking.” oh please, give us a break.
“I have never felt this way before. Many of the items on the list stem from our love for one another and my appreciation of all the ways in which he loves me so selflessly.” “The list was a way to thank him (I’ve never been treated so wonderfully by a man before) and other men (like my father and brother) whose selfless qualities, integrity, work ethic, etc. I so admire.”
EXACTLY! You should read Dr. Paul’s artical again.
Damn, you’ve been this way for so long, you simply cannot recognize it, let alone recognize what is wrong with it.
@Neely
You waste your time telling men here that there are women out there that love their BFs and treat them well……we know that…..and we don’t give a shit.
You see, every women treats her BF nice….while she loves him. But if a woman’s love is all you have to rely on, then most men are going to get fucked over bad.
You aren’t gong to “love” your BF forever, and I say love but it’s really just infatuation or certain chemical reactions in your brain. Your BF is totally reliant on the continuation of those chemical reactions for you to continue to treat him well……..but they won’t last……they never do……what then? Then he becomes exposed to the system that allows you to terrorize him, strip him of assets, deny him access to his children if there are any…..or just pour petrol over him and torch him after splattering his balls with a hammer and hacking his cock of with a blunt bread and butter knife.
We don’t give a toss about your feelings, or any other temporary protections. We don’t need any proof that women have feelings and act on them……we know that….in fact we know that that is all women do, and that is the problem. We want legal rights and protections……period…….you can shove your feelings…..they aren’t worth shit.
“I don’t think Ms Steinberg likes feminists at all.”
She may not like feminists, but she sure likes a bit of chivalry and male disposability. So who really cares if she has a couple of stabs at a few feminazis.
Whoops. Sorry, Tom. I meant to hit the plus button. So your score is actually 7-0 as I type this.
¨selfless qualities¨ This right here can be exploited a lot, any romantic interaction start with a transfer of resources from the men to the women, and the relationship is no different, thanks to the cult of me and self fulfillment from Oprah and other influences, thinking about your partner is the last thing a woman has in his mind, you are lucky with your relationship, don’t know if it will last.
@Neely “I’d be interested in hearing people on this site’s personal stories to see how those experiences have shaped their thinking.”
A mother who unilaterally initiates divorce, uses false allegations of domestic violence (or child abuse) to gain leverage in family court and to emotionally and financially “rape” her husband then alienates him from their children will generally lead to a pretty angry man, like me and many others here. This is state santioned abuse of men and children, the men generally cope, the children really suffer the consequences. Add a society that constantly via all media villifies men as worthless and violent and the anger grows. Then deny our boys equality in education, in a school system that emasculates them, a tertiary education system that if it lets them in paints them all as potential rapists, and denies them even the outlet of sport and you may be starting to get the picture. Have a read of the articles here its a treasure trove for a serious journalist who wants to break free of political correctness and actually stands for equality and a fair go for all. Are you up to the challenge?
@Neely
I am appreciative of the fact that,unlike many other women, you at least have a list that has something to do with men and appreciation for the things we do.
That’s a great leap forward. That you show a cognizance of other people in the world is remarkable considering how all of us here have seen at least one studio audience full of women mock a man for being sexually disfigured by his wife simply because he wanted a divorce, and then competing with each other to figure out what other horrible things they could do to men incapacitated in such a manner.
I also salute you for having the courage to say what you did,here, to our faces,as it were.That act actually imbues me with greater estimation of your person than anything on your list.Many women simply write lists of all the ways we aren’t good enough or all the things that we must do for women and then hide behind a pen name or screen name and giggle at our perceived impotence to respond.
Like others here, I was miffed about the fact that your list focused on what men could do for you. Somewhere in this thread you asked what caused such a negative response while falsely drawing a correlation between MRA’s and feminists,you mentioned that Amanda Marcotte was raped,and insinuate that perhaps MRA’s are traumatized.
I’ll tell you what bothers me about it. What bothers me is when I was a little boy, I was told:
“Never hit a woman.”
“Always offer a woman your coat.”
“If you make a promise to a woman (or man,for that matter) keep it.”
“Find a woman who makes you happy and then treat her like a queen.”
“Take off your hat when a woman enters the room.”
“Raise the seat when you take a piss,lower it when you’re finished (for women).”
“A real man gives his wife his paycheck at the end of the week, she deserves it for doing all those dishes.”
etc,etc,etc, as well as generalized messages about manning up and protecting women, dying for them if necessary,blabbity-fucking-blah.
Nobody ever told me what women were supposed to do for me. Apparently nobody told them either.
I would just like women to understand that I am a person. I get hungry, I get cold, I get tired, I have dreams,goals,plans,ideas,I have unique skills which I have cultivated from a lifetime of working,thinking,and learning from others.All those things are worth something.
My needs are not subordinate to yours. My hobbies and activities are not silly fixations I need to do away with because they cut into the time I spend on you.I am not “acting like a baby” or being irrational when I say these things and put my foot down.
If you want something from me,you must offer me something in return which I estimate at an equal value.
Courtesy is a two-way street, it is not something owed to women by men as a sex.
“I also have to wonder: Do men not enjoy making women happy? Does it not feed something inside of them?”
Of course. I,for one,do. I love making my girlfriends happy. But what you don’t seem to be grasping is that it is socially and legally required of us. We are forced to do it, even if we don’t feel like it. If women would get together and just repeal all the stupid fucking laws that make it a crime not to make your wife or girlfriend happy, we’d do it willingly, and we’d do it fucking GLADLY. The reason we’re pissed is that we’re legally required to make you happy, and socially expected to, and you’re not,on either count.
So, that’s pretty much why everyone responded cynically. Your list sounded to us kind of like what I would sound like making a list of what I love about African-Americans and saying “They’re very efficient janitors,they always clean up all the trash I throw on the floor no matter how many times I do it.”,or “They saved my plantation-owning great-grandpa a fortune on labor costs.”.
You’ve done great work on this post, Tom. Big fan.
I can’t win. On the one hand I’m applauded for coming here and defending myself and leaving comments (when I don’t respond, I’m accused of going silent for lack of an argument); on the other hand, when I do respond with my honest feelings I’m accused of being manipulative. As if the men on this site are capable of being manipulated by a woman.
There is no denying it. You are performing on a stage behind a wall of chicken wire that helps keep the beer bottles from smacking you in the head.
This is the roughest crowd around. Imagine writing here all the time.
That is why it is not helpful to think of it as winning or losing, except to the extent that if you can practice intellectual honesty, you win, regardless of who agrees with you or not.
Oh, and I responded to your post to me. Looking forward to your answers.
You “somewhat” understand a woman’s anger toward men because she was raped by MEN? Her Daddy abandoned her there for ALL men deserve hatred?
She was raped by men. YOUR words.
Hate to break it to you, but MEN don’t rape. CRIMINALS rape.
MEN hunt down rapists. MEN prosecute and imprison rapists. MEN beat, murder and lynch rapists.
MEN hate rapists and are scorned and derided for their attempt to protect their wives, daughters, mothers, sisters and risked their own lives protecting total strangers from rape.
Even fellow prisoners hate men who rape women.
EVERYone hates rapists – it’s why women falsely accuse men of rape. Nothing brings down the wrath upon a man than to be accused of such a horrible thing.
The ONLY exception, of course is raping of men, a whole other matter, it’s collectively America’s favorite joke.
“This is the roughest crowd around. Imagine writing here all the time.”
Exactly, don’t take it personally.
This is the way men express themselves when women aren’t around. We’re treating you as our equal…”harsh” isn’t it?
“I can’t win. On the one hand I’m applauded for coming here and defending myself and leaving comments (when I don’t respond, I’m accused of going silent for lack of an argument); on the other hand, when I do respond with my honest feelings I’m accused of being manipulative. ”
As you can see we’ve learned a lot from feminists.
Now you have but a small taste of what it’s like to be a man.
“As if the men on this site are capable of being manipulated by a woman.”
But earlier you said it’s a given, ‘it’s the art of seduction, and it’s ancient’.
And ‘a woman’ is not primary. It’s the collective gang of females who have colluded to fuck men over culturally, legally, institutionally. They’ve created the environment, in cold calculation, whether or not you give a shit. We just have to live in it.
Neely its not about winning or losing, it how you play the game, you seem like a good sport to me, thanks for putting yourself in the firing line, but accept by doing so you will be fired at!
“I can’t win…”
That is how so very many of us, men, the derided and belittled and scorned and scolded and shamed sex – that’s right, I said it, sex, not “gender” – feel all the time.
I’m 58 years old and I have been treated like the pack mule – at best – by women, all my life. I have “manfully” borne up under this, with damn little appreciation for my role save from my mother (who lived under the roof I paid to keep over us, from my adulthood till the day she died) and now her sister (whose house I am clearing out for sale, because she can’t manage on her own any more and she lives in a “memory care” facility).
I am more fortunate, in several hollow ways, than many or most of us here on AVFM. I have never married, so I never had the wrenching torture of divorce, of losing everything I held dear to a loved wife turned vindictive bitch, of ruinous “child support” and false accusations used to bring the Hammer Of The Law down hard on my balls. I have had only a few short “loving relationships” with women my age, and those long ago, so I have escaped the accusations of “date rape” so popular today. I spent my career being extremely careful about what I said and how I behaved around my women colleagues, and so I was never accused of sexual harassment – in fact, I was sexually harassed myself, even accused of being homosexual at least once, despite the fact of behaving consciously like a professional neuter.
I have gone without “love,” if you use that word to label an infatuation-driven, sex-included relationship that lasts longer than overnight, since 1986.
And you complain that you “can’t win.”
You have won. You have won it all, outside of this little virtual man-cave. You have the spotlight, and the good career, and the adulation of your “big spoon,” and a long full life of all of this to look forward to living.
And you “can’t win” because you haven’t turned this last refuge of a few grievously-wronged men into a gallery of adulation for “Glorious Neely, Goddess Of Good!”
My honest feelings are bitter, my heart is a burned and scarred lump of flesh ground under the spike heel of Empowered Grrrl Sisterhood. If you shame me for that, I have no reason to listen.
“I do respond with my honest feelings”
Your feelings honest or not are not at issue here. Feelings amount to exactly nada.
What everyone is waiting for is tangible and unequivocal evidence that you repudiate feminism and all its components in its ENTIRETY. No “except the good things”. No “we are the world”. No “let’s all just have respect”. Nothing short of a sweeping denunciation of any condition which has even the potential of creating any kind of constraint upon any man will do. That much would get you neutrality among most MRAs.
An overall positive reception would be had following a series of actions against feminism and a credible pledge to avoid collaboration of any kind, including contributing to feminist propaganda efforts.
In no case is the expression of feeling enough. That feelings have impact is a feminist notion. Taking an unmistakable stand toward feminism’s utter destruction and contributing to it in whatever way you can matters.
Which is why women are never to be trusted. Keep your guard up at all times folks, and learn their trade so you can defend yourselves.
“I am well aware of the growing angst among men, as you will see from that piece.”
Insincere, fake, transparent, opportunist, self-interested expedient neely-come-lately, narcissist extraordinaire. I am told that you “always appreciate a different point of view, even if it’s harsh. You were honest with your feelings, and I appreciate candid feedback.” Get fucked.
Rat fleeing a sinking ship of evil, hate and brutality- oh the admiration.
Clarify; it’s not “The Winter”, it’s The fucking Spring.
All that foundation and fluffing, you would be far more credible in porn than in ‘journalism’ with your belaboring, disingenuous strings of roman characters.
Any man who gives two fucks about your self-deifying laundry list of ’20 ways I profit from male bondage’, is a self-debasing tool, indeed.
Cheers, slut.
We claim our rights in dignity, with no debt or concern as to your trifling preferences or pleasures.
“I love the way a woman in love thinks of her partner’s sexual pleasure before her own, anticipating his desires and fucking him whenever and wherever he pleases.” Imagine, reciprocation. Imagine.. Equality.
Hi Neely,
Thanks for the links.
To start with, obviously if I had read your first linked piece I would have written a different article. But that was not the case. What I did read was what I responded to, and in order to remain in good conscience, I must stand by everything I said.
Having stated that, I think your other article was very good and much needed. I also think it is, when combined with your sentiments at GMP, an opportunity for a lesson, both for you and for some of the readers here.
I offer these thoughts to you with respect, not because of your second article, but because you showed up here to defend yourself – of sorts.
Here’s the deal. If I take both of your articles in context, it appears as though there are only two options for men. One, we can tow the feminist line and live our lives in obsequious deference to the likes of Marcotte, Schwyzer, et al, or, we can find solace in the traditional male role that leaves us just as subservient to a different master; in this case, traditional women (or Neely Steinberg if you prefer).
I opt to reject the control of both, hands down.
I think you see that clearly (as you stated it quite eloquently in your referenced piece) why feminism is coming under attack from a growing number of men who are increasingly fed up with the lies, the demonization and the demands.
What I don’t think you see clearly is the nature of the rejection of your brand of anti-feminist manhood. And that may be a struggle for you.
Like I said, I commend you for showing up here to defend yourself, but keep in mind that is something that many of the men, and some women, do here each and every day. So it is not a gold medal, but just a tip of the hat for a good start on what needs to happen.
And what really needs to happen here is a more honest dialogue from you. So far, it hasn’t.
Here’s the point, Neely. As has already been pointed out in the comments, you have well asserted your skepticism of modern feminism, but what you have not done in any way is honestly and directly respond to my critique of your article at GMP.
And this is at the very core of everything going on here.
I understand you are under no obligation to do so, but I also think that since you are willing to take the time and effort to come here and speak for yourself, that you might want to do so in a way that actually responds to my critique.
What you posted, in my opinion, was egregious, but understandable. You simply expressed sentiments that women have been encouraged to embrace since long before feminism. Your thinking and perception of men has been molded by a thousand generations of biological and social programming.
But then again, so was the thinking and perceptions of women in men of the past that preferred that you fetch coffee and wait in the next room while men talked business.
I think you will agree that the time for that has passed; that we are not going to squeeze that toothpaste back into the tube. So what of your antiquated notions of men filling the role of your Prince Charming?
I could go on forever about this, but I am assuming you get the point by now. At least I hope you get the point. Your model for what you love about men demands their being expendable and servile. You have said as much 20 times over.
Can you really read back through your list and not see that?
I invite you to take that question on, directly and without wavering. Without that, I will offer praise for some of your other work, but would have to view you as a wolf in sheep’s clothing where men are concerned.
You write in your article -
http://blastmagazine.com/the-magazine/culturefashion/kinky-stuff/feminism-the-winter-of-men%E2%80%99s-discontent/2/
Quite a fine article in the listening to men.
However, the final femalist paragraph of this article makes no sense -
“It would be dishonest not to acknowledge that feminism has helped men in important ways: It’s reduced the financial burden of men; it’s allowed men the option to be stay-at-home dads and thus nurture their relationships with their children; it’s allowed men to look at women as their equal partners. Many men rejoice in these gains, and they must not lose sight of them”
Sadly to me that seems like a misguided, rationalizing and somewhat gloating entitled set of attitudes.
Contrary to those attitudes I think it’s important to accept certain facts -
* It was male invented technologies rather than feminism that freed women – domestic appliances, the birth control pill and democratic politics. Only after these inventions could feminism even exist.
Prior to that women, like men were too busy to reflect upon their sex roles.
* Men still pay the majority of income tax, yet receive only a small fraction of state support programs women receive. As this changes due to men being left behind economically there are no feminist drives to assist men in any manner at all financially or otherwise. On the contrary feminists only push relentlessly for further gains for women willfully ignorant of men’s issues.
* Feminism did not free men up to become stay at home dads. As I mentioned earlier because men invented the technologies to free women up to leave the home and enter paid employment men could then become stay at home dads. Some have done so despite DECADES of feminists maliciously poisoning the social environment with misandric hysteria branded all men as potentially a sexual risk to children. Therefore I believe the reality is men have bravely become stay at home dads DESPITE feminism.
* Women have MASSIVE protection in the form of taxpayer funded supports enshrined in law and social customs which males don’t so it’s a cruel fallacy to say feminism has created equality – totally the opposite in fact!
The reality is feminists have created sexual apartheid!
Lastly men don’t look at equal partners as a result of feminism. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Increasing numbers of men are waking up to the reality that they are anything but equals to women.
After all women are the privileged sex, men are the disposable sex. There’s just no comparison that can be made that reasonably concludes there’s even slight parity let alone equality. Again if you’d listened more deeply to men’s concerns you’d have got that.
I’ve seen the list of things you say you love about men
- none of which seem to be about men themselves but as others have so consensually pointed out rather only about men’s utility to YOU.
That’s a “men are disposable success objects” type mindset.
So I think it must be terribly hard for you to listen deeply with empathy to men.
I think the author should read – http://www.angryharry.com/notefeminismforstudents.htm.
it may help with deprogramming from the feminism cult.
To me, your reply to Paul’s article seems to appeal “hold your fire, I am on your side!” If this is not the case, ignore the rest of my comment.
If this is the case, you are disingenusous in the extreme.
There is nothing wrong with you. There is not even anything wrong with your “list”, per say. However, in the context of the feminist governance that characterizes all western governments today, you are doing tremendous harm.
Think of Amanda Marcotte as the matador delivering death blows to millions of bulls (men), to the howls of the insatiable blood lust of our misandrist culture. Clearly you disagree with Marcotte and her hate-filled feminist lynch mob.
So, you cheer for the bull. Maybe you know it is hopeless; mabye you pretend that there is “some hope” that the bull may one day prevail. Inevitably, yet another beast is slaughtered, and you throw a white handkerchieff onto the sand and wail with grief as it soaks in blood.
Then you encourage yet more bulls (men) to follow, hoping to restore a world that is long since gone.
Are you better person than Amanda Marcotte? Of course. You are filled with love, and she is filled with hate. However, which of you does MORE HARM?
You. You do more harm. You are the cheerleader of death, urging millions of men to break themselves on the bedrock of feminist hate. In civil courts, in crimial courts, in brutal work of every kind, in war, in peace, they follow your voice to their ruin. They have no protection, or even recognition, from the government that spends male tears, male blood, and male dreams as currency to finance the whims of women.
What good is it for you to point out the misandry that contaminates society, and then urge men to participate in that same society?
LIBERTY is the only voice that interests men now.
Women’s lives should be determined by the choices made by women.
Men’s lives should be determined by the choices made by men.
The social contract is a thing of the past.
The MRM:
Equal protection of government.
Equal protection under the law.
Twenty thousand thumbs up!!!!
I read the first article. Despite claiming to be about men it’s probably 85% about women/feminism.
Saying there is something wrong with feminism isn’t the same as being against it.
Also, you are still regurgitating the old patriarchy line about women being oppressed by the so-called patriarchy.
For centuries women relied on men to do the hard dirty dangerous work that was essential to survival. That required men to take charge and make decisions that women didn’t want to make.
Fighting wars, defending the family, raising crops, building houses, etc. were all things that men “had” to do because women couldn’t.
To give you a better understanding let me spell out female choice for you more clearly.
If you were a woman at this time and you could do anything you wanted to do you would have had to make a choice between doing that job and never having sex your whole life OR getting married, having sex, making babies and having your man do that job and give you those resources.
The absence of birth control, the extreme physical nature of work meant that women were eliminated from 95% of employment because they were physically incapable or would have been made so by pregnancy.
These are indisputable facts. And it was the greatest charity of men to provide and protect women unconditionally for this period and their actions were the expectation and privilege of women.
It was only with the invention of birth control and the beginning of the computer age that created an abundance of light duty employment in climate controlled offices that women suddenly saw work outside the home as something they wanted to do. Before then the vast majority of women did not want to work and shamed men if their wives had to work to make ends meet.
If you don’t believe me just look at WWII and how women fled their heavy manufacturing jobs despite industry’s desire to keep trained workers on the job. Women just didn’t want to do that work.
To regurgitate the feminist theory that men oppressed women through patriarchy is to scapegoat ALL men for doing exactly what women expected and demanded they do.
Within the context of “women can do anything a man can” –blaming men for keeping women in the home became a requirement to cover up a realization that women had been goldbricking for the last 10,000 years.
Yes, one of my grandmothers great bragging points was that she never had to work a day in her life. She often bragged that her husband never failed to provide everything, even through the great depression, even through the war…which he fought in.
She knew damn well which side her bread was buttered on. She lived through two world wars and a depression without ever having to go without anything. Her father, her husband, and her sons all had to fight in war, her brother died in one, so did her husband’s brother. Her mother, her sisters, her daughters, were all protected and provided for while the world fell apart and the male bodies piled up.
In the depression, the swagmen were everywhere. Men with no homes, no jobs, just a backpack with all they owned packed within…..wandering the landscape, sleeping on the ground…..doing odd jobs and picking up whatever work they could where ever they could…….there were no swagwomen. Society made sure women had a roof over their head and three squares per day even in the worst of times.
At least these women honored and respected men. Now they expect the same level of sacrifice with nothing in return except hate.
Neely,
At this point in this evening, I have a VERY hard time believing in “women’s compassion.”
If you actually feel compassion for men – and I hope some woman (singular-tense intentional) MIGHT feel a bit of compassion for men – thank you, even in absence of my confirmation of that.
I, for one am really hurting for compassion. I am the guy who “can’t get (compassion) in a whorehouse, even with a fistful of $100′s.” I even have a difficult time believing that my own mother – with whom I lived from the day of my birth until the day of her death, 49 years and a few months later – really had any feeling, any compassion, for a male son.
Judging from the title, I thought she was going to ridicule male masturbation.
My wife caught me loving myself
I also thought you might like to read this piece, in which I tell feminists to stop playing the sexism card:
http://blastmagazine.com/the-news/politics/leave-the-sexist-card-out-of-the-scott-brown-race-please/
Best,
Neely
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Still promoting?
How about you try something like this: “In hindsight I can see that the 20 points I listed do mostly revolve around how men can serve to benefit others, and it was a narrow and insulting selection of what is praiseworthy in men…”
Then lead on to promoting your writings… which hopefully show you to be more broad-minded than you appear in your 20 points. First things first.
How about you try something like this: “In hindsight I can see that the 20 points I listed do mostly revolve around how men can serve to benefit others, and it was a narrow and insulting selection of what is praiseworthy in men…”
A leopardess does not change its spots.
She is the poster princess for a lifeboat feminist.
Yes! Lifeboat princess. “I love how men will give up their seat for me.”
“I love how millions of men go off to work every day and then come home after long work hours to share in the housework and child-rearing.”
Interesting, so seeing that normally its the male who leaves much earlier to work because of the distance he has to travel to get there, and ends up working much later because his job normally requires him to work longer hours along with the commute to get back, does the fairer sex who gets home far sooner than her significant other, just sit back on her ass and wait several hours not doing anything in the house until hubby gets home? And we’re the one’s who are inconsiderate? Go figure.
Caveat: This does not apply to the many women who do understand the meaning of paid and unpaid work and are aware of the practicality and fairness of shared household work that normally befalls on those who arrive home first which more often times than not is the wife since hubby is still at work. Secondly, let us keep in mind who does the mowing, car and house hold repairs, plumbing , taking out the trash, walking the dog, heavy lifting and so forth.
You forgot “changing a flat tire at 2a.m. in Minneapolis when it’s -45 with wind chill.”
Everytime I read a “2nd shift” poor little put upon women men don’t clean toilets article, I remember that horrible night…there are MANY such examples, but THAT night will always stand out in my mind…
Here’s the 20-something male take on that list. Most of it are characteristics of girls I used to date; and some that are really me imagining there’s got to be women out there like that (I won’t tell you which is which, lots of guys here have their own combos). But to paraphrase what a poster here said, You have to sift through a lot of women who see you in a utilitarian manner, before it happens. I think the (ridiculous) abundance of them makes “MGTOW”. Guys still feel hurt and rejection and disappointment.
ANYHOW here is my list:
1. I love the way she laughs.
2. I love the way that when she laughs, even if I don’t feel like laughing, just the laughter will make me want to laugh…and possibly feel better (about whatever).
3. I love how she looks up at me, when she asks me if “I’m OK”.
4. I love how she’s fine with being the big spoon, she just wants to touch me.
5. I love the way she smells when I’m nestled in her neck.
6. I love how she seems to actually want to make me happy, even if she doesn’t really know how to all the time.
7. I love how she cares about my health, even more than I do sometimes. Ironically, it makes me care more too.
8. I love how she looks in dresses, or skirts. Either or both. Hell, even jeans or sweats.
9. I love how little or too much time she spends, just to look like she does: perfect. But ironically I kind of envy her, and wish she knew thats how it was: perfect.
10. I love her small hands in mine.
11. I love to hear from her, even if it’s just in the form of gratuitous texting throughout the day.
12. I love it when she wants to parade me around, and meet her loved ones, even if she knows I’m just not a very social guy. I wish I could do it for her, really I do.
13. I love to know she thinks about and talks about me (hopefully they’re good things!) when I’m not with her. I totally do the same..but you know I know how annoying it can be to outsiders so I minimize it.
14. I love her huge bag she brings for overnight stays..which turn into a weekend.
15. I love how she doesn’t (seem to) need to be constantly entertained, just being with, talking, and existing along with me is enough.
16. I love how, even though she claims she’s not that girly, she doesn’t know how feminine she can be, and that I honestly don’t care that much.
916.5 I love it. And the cute, stripey socks)
17. I love her occasional road rage, or how she loses her composure and maybe makes hasty decisions…even though we could die, well, it just shows she’s still human. besides, I do it too.
18. I love the shape of her eyebrows..it isn’t all about eye colour, yanno?
19. I love her lips. I think…well I know it’s just about how they touch mine.
20. I love that sometimes being with her is like being with someone I’ve known for years, or sometimes like being alone, but not lonely.
What a beautiful … fantasy.
And it’s orders of magnitude below what we’re expected to endure.
This is a beautiful list. Thank you!
Neely
Is anything on that list even comparable to inspecting sewers, dying in wars or lifting heavy objects?
The difference between men’s and women’s expectations of each other is quite staggering.
Fuck her laundry list anyway.
This is what you get, take it or leave it.
I heard a weird story once about women who used to exist who could inspire men to do all that shit willingly. I think it might have been in one of those seminars on ancient Mythology or something.
That is the true art of seduction. Check out Robert Greene’s book. A great read.
Neely
Yes, and ‘shitty’ seduction is precisely what you are trying to do here. You have babbled on about (the utterly idiotic feminist fantasy) ‘equality’ but you have never once bothered to address The Woman Racket (Moxon), the Money Honey (Hakim) racket or anything else with intellectual honesty. You seem to believe that playing cute is all you need to do to be respected as an equal.
You nailed it eloquently and comprehensively – good work as usual.
I’m willing to bet that those guys who just fulfil a fraction of that list are also those who die 5 years younger than their female counterparts. Item 21 therefore should be “I love the way you die so much younger than me so I can get to spend all which you had saved for your retirtement”! lol
Item 21 therefore should be “I love the way you die so much younger than me so I can get to spend all which you had saved for your retirtement”!
Bingo
For what its worth I have just tweeted this excellent article and included a brand new hashtag called “#feministscallmethings” . ( I think this hashtag was originally proposed by Typhonblue in another thread recently )
Good read Paul,
Narcissism is definitely a problem, but it’s not entirely the domain of women. It just seems that women often have more expectations of men than they do of themselves.
Lisa is letting Tom be the point man and the fall guy, but he doesn’t do anything without her approval. I think the recent drama is more of a tactical shift, but the agenda of “good men” as defined by women remains.
They really weren’t getting anywhere with the male-guilt, so they are now attempting appreciation of male utility. They are now recognizing differences between men and women and appealing to men’s traditional gender role, as defined by women.
It will be quite revealing just who and what gets selected for their MRA section.
You make some astute points I think – men ARE generally protective of women and feminists (esp. radfems) are very much aware of this. Not only are they aware of it but they exploit for all it is worth already via institutional male chivalry. Because male chivalry in the west has become institutionalised we can safely say such chivalry is cultural, but, is it also inherent? That is an important question to answer correctly because if it is deeply inherent then it would be difficult to stop that trait from being cynically abused and manipulated i.e. we wouldn’t be able to reverse or neutralise the social engineering which put it there in the first place. My view is that even if it is inherent it is not deeply so because in other cultures in the world such chivalry is not in evidence.
Is Chivarly inherent? No. Chivalry is a western concept which romanticizes the preferential and deferential treatment of women.
However, men all over the world do privilege and defer to women. Women don’t always run businesses or governments but they also don’t run oil rigs, or sewer maintenance either. I also don’t know of any military in the last 2000 years that used women as frontline cannon fodder. Even in Israel females in the military are kept in the rear with the gear while publicly they are part of combat units.
Deferring to women is genetic. Privileging women is a response to female reproductive monopoly and beauty power. The more beautiful the woman the more privilege she can get. As for ugly women there is a saying: “ugly women are like men. They are going to have to work”. That said, ugly or not, they still get protected status of a female whether they are 19 or 90, fat or skinny, pretty or homely.
Well said. Protection of women is a very old business. However chivalry as we know it -the knightly code of honour- apparently began in 12th century France according to Joseph Campbell:
Moyers: So the age of chivalry was growing up as the age of romantic love was reaching out?
Campbell: The Middle Ages was a strange period because it was terribly brutal. There was no central law. Everyone was on his own, and, of course, there were great violations of everything. But within this brutality there was a civilizing force which the women really represented because they were the ones who established the rules for this game.
Moyers: How did it happen that the women had the dominant influence?
Campbell: Because if you want to make love to a woman, she’s already got the drop on you. The technical term for a woman’s granting of herself was ‘merci.’ The woman grants her ‘merci.’ Now, that might consist in her permission for the man to kiss her on the back of the neck once every Whitsuntide, you know, something like that – or it may be a full giving in love. That would depend upon her estimation of the character of the candidate… The essential idea was to test this man to make sure that he would suffer things for love, and that this was not just lust.
Moyers: Joseph, that may have emerged in the troubadour period, but it is still alive and well in East Texas.
Campbell: That’s the force of this position. It originated in twelfth century Provence, and you’ve got it now in 20th century Texas. [From - The Power of Myth].
Interesting post. Joseph Campbell has a great quote that I have tried to live my life by: “Follow your bliss.”
Curious: Do you think men aren’t all that interested in chivalry or romance anymore (or maybe they never were)? Do they feel that since men and women are now seen as equals chivalry and romance only exist to feed a woman’s ego?
I think it’s a sad day when romance is gone. Maybe that’s what we’ve come to. I guess it depends, though, on how you define romance. I think men and women can romance each other, but I’ve heard men say that they show love and affection more by doing (as opposed to showing through talking, emoting). Obviously generalizing. Thoughts?
Chivalry was always a choice for males (since the 12th century) so they enjoyed giving or withdrawing it based on whether they detected reciprocity by a women- the power was man’s.
In the last 30 years feminists have worked hard to enforce chivalry legally- no choice, its now law. This is why males are bucking against chivalry now – they see it as a legal mandate with penalties for those who don’t display it.
For example if today’s men don’t show satisfactory chivalry to wives, she may get jaded with him and take the house and kids… so he is forced to show a basic layer of chivalry in order to legally keep his house and kids and wife. Or if he doesnt pay for her shoes like a good chivalrist, she can claim “financial abuse”. Men once showed chivalry by opening car doors, now the doors are opened into political positions and board rooms (quotas) or into universities as affirmative action, all legally mandated regardless of whether the candidate is deserving. And on a merely social, non-legal level, women have become more overtly hostile, violent even, if chivalrous expectations are not met- this never used to be the case just 40 years ago.
There is definately a sense among men that chivalry is now expected, automatic, and legally enforced… and it is this that feminists have worked into law and that makes men feel that chivalry is no longer a gift that can be freely given and taken away.
On the positive side of this development it has given men a chance to step back and realize how chivalry breeds narcissism, an insight they would not have been so clear about in the past. It’s a kind of enlightenment.
@neelysteinberg
Romance is far too connected to chivalry, at least in this culture. Ask any women to define romance and it will look a bit like your list and no doubt also include numerous points about having things paid for and bought for them. In short it will involve sacrifice on the mans part and endulgance on their part. On this basis, romance sucks and should sink like chivalry should. And men should build their own life rafts and save themselves. Of course you and women in general would think this is a sad day when it ends, I’m sure slave owners thought it a sad day when that ended also.
“Deferring to women is genetic. Privileging women is a response to female reproductive monopoly and beauty power.”
As I understand, survival always trumps reproduction. So when dealing with women in our anti-male climate begins to result in a legitimate threat to survival(suicide, losing your income, home, and assets, imprisonment for false allegations…etc) you’ll see men adapt to this and begin to shun the very practices that put their survival at risk. We’re seeing more and more men every day opting to forgo marriage, children, or even any interaction with females at all. It’s sad, but it’s gotten to the point where it just isn’t worth the risk.
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Neely,
“Shouldn’t [Men] be thankful to feminism? From what I see, feminism as created a veritable sexual playground for men, no?”
I would like you to understand something which I’m sure others will address long before I post this poorly written reply. Asking anyone to be grateful for being -or the potential of- abuse is ludicrous. The only time I have been grateful for harm caused to me is when I was studying a martial art. It was a controlled and measured environment with clear limits and responsibilities. When I made mistakes, I was corrected. When I was sloppy, I was corrected. The differences between abuse and training are quite clear; the differences between current domestic theory and abuse are not.
The idea feminists ‘made’ a sexual playground for men is also worthy of ruthless refutation which I simply do not have the energy or time for (as I’m equally amused and angered by the ideas you have expressed; go figure) beyond saying “Hey. Neely; women like sex just as much as men do! Arguably more given a certain toy/product industry built directly around their pursuit of fulfilling such a want.”
“No thank you” Neely. I will not be grateful to feminists. On issues of equality such as sexual autonomy, socio-economic sovereignty, sanctioned domestic violence, and various others they have remained quite silent and certainly inactive especially when it comes to ownership of female acts/behavior. Paternity Fraud, No-Fault (read: his fault) Divorce and the indentured servitude that come with each individually let alone combined is nothing to be thankful for.
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@ neelysteinberg
“shouldn’t they [men] be thankful to feminism? From what I see, feminism has created a veritable sexual playground for men, no?”
No. Contrary to popular belief, we men aren’t governed entirely by our dicks. With all due respect, no veritable fuck-fest is worth the erosion of my rights and of due process for men. Neither is it worth the constant demonisation and belittlement of men that pervades our culture. The likelihood that I will lose contact with any children that I father; the fact that young men are being neglected in academia; and the fact that I am guilty until I prove myself innocent in the event of a false allegation are all results of feminism as well. What do we get in exchange for our rights? More pussy? Keep it…we don’t need it.
@Neely
Yes I suppose you could give some credit for feminism creating a sexual playground for men……but an even bigger sexual playground for women. Then again, you could give credit to men for creating all the contraception methods as well. Without these things, women’s sexual freedom couldn’t exist.
I have taken absolute maximum advantage of this playground……to a ridiculous degree. Funny too, I’ve got fuck buddies that I’ve had for over 10 years……no strings, no committments…..just nice friendships….with benefits……that’s longer then any relationship or marriage I’ve had ever lasted…..and guess what……none of them are feminists. Some of them call themselves feminists……but they aren’t. They are what I call single issue feminists. They have jobs, so they think that makes them feminists……they have sexual freedom and a bunch of fuck buddies……..so they think that makes them feminists……but I look how they treat men…..and find that they have nothing in common with feminists.
If the credit for the sexual playground can be given to feminism…which to some degree…..but not all….is true…it is not that way anymore. Feminists are at war with male sexuality……attempting to brand all male hetro sex acts as rape and violence against women.
Feminists encourage women to dress provocatively, to be seductive…..to tease men with their sexuality….but to be hostile to men’s sexuality…..it’s an insane mix. Go on a slutwalk….declare yourself a slut…..but don’t actually be one….don’t actually put out…..at least not without crying victim about it…and making false allegations of rape and sexual harassment and assault.
The feminist version of sexual freedom for women is…..parade around tantalizing men with your sexual wares….then complain and call a man a rapist for even looking…..then go and get your sex at the lesbian orgy for feminist man haters. That is the sexuality promoted by feminism. Feminism loves fake sluts…..teasers…..phonies……and hates real sluts because real sluts love sex and love men.
The sexual playground is a consolation prize anyway. It’s like, well take away everything a mans life was based on…..in exchange, you get to fuck lots of different women. But now feminists are taking away the consolation prize, it’s becoming dangerous to visit the sexual playground…….that leave men with what……nothing……unless your lucky enough to be gay…..or bisexual….and they are making sure there is no safe haven in gay relationships now too…..dragging them into the family court to be legally stripped of their assets in the same manner as straight guys.
They have turned on porn….and they are even starting to claim a man masturbating is some sort of abuse of women.
Feminism is just an anti male hate movement…..period. It used sex like a lure to get men to feel ok about the destruction of family life…and they have no intention letting men continue to enjoy that sexual freedom that they used as a lure, or a sedative.
This is a great question and I have spent the better part of the afternoon thinking of the things I have to thank Feminism for.
When my sons were born, my biggest fear for them was to be killed in war.
Thanks to a false rape accusation and feminist’s insistance that victims never lie, my son is a felon with a sex offense.
Thanks to feminism, the military won’t allow felons with sex offences to enlist and serve their country. Even though he would have been proud to serve his country – he is barred from enlisting. So, yes. Thank you Feminism.
My daughter started dating a guy I just didn’t care for. I didn’t think he was right for her, but she was mad about him. Once he found out about her brother’s conviction he immediately broke off the relationship, fearing his Ex wife would find out and use it against him seeing his son. So again, Thanks, Feminism.
My youngest son was in middle school when a “concerned mom” felt the need to inform all his classmates his older brother was a dreaded sex offender. He became depressed, and we put him in a private school in a near by town after some of the kids stated harassing him about it. The school was an excellent prep school, even though it strained our budget beyond the pale to afford it. He was accepted into an excellent university thanks in no small part to that school. So, Thanks, Feminism. He couldn’t qualify for any scholarship as a white male with excellent grades, but thank you anyway.
The sweet young couple that put their home up for sale next door had a hell of a time selling a home next door to a “listed predator!!!” They were VERY nice people, always kind to my son. The house finally sold at a terrific loss to them, lowering all the home values in the neighborhood, but thanks to Feminism, the world is a better, safer place for children…unless you are a child affected negatively by association, then who cares?
Th neighbors stopped speaking to us, shunned us, gave us dirty looks, bu not one of our friends or family wavered in their belief in his innocence. So thanks, Feminism…you really find out who your friends are, and that IS priceless.
@ Stu @ neely @ C.A. George
Stu,
An incredible fountain of wisdom you are, what an asset. You continually put my thoughts into liquid crystal better than I could. And your comment works read like full posts, me thinks they should be so.
@Lucian Cross
This is not poorly written. Your reply addresses her flippant, offensive and misandric comments sufficiently enough for such views.
Men did not want marriage destroyed, this was done BY feminism. Telling most of the population who have been so deeply effected by divorce either their parents, their own or loved one, that they should be thankful provides another window into where you are truly coming from Neely.
Telling them they should be thankful for their daughters, sisters, mothers, wives becoming a pack of whores is also the height of offensive.
@ OneHundredPercentCotton
Wow! Sorry to hear you and your family have gone through so much due to a false allegation. I can only imagine how helpless you, and particularly your son felt when it happened.
This is an excellent piece. As Esther Vilar spelled out so powerfully in 1971, many women are kept in a time capsule of perpetual childhood throughout their lives… Paul here provides a contemporary example of the same arrested development that feminists everywhere are advocating for all women. We might say that feminism is the project for increasing female narcissism from it’s already high levels of the past.
An alternative title here could have been “From the Mirror To The Window: inviting feminists to Grow Up”.
For most adolescents growing up means a confrontation with the reality principle. But there exist insidious counter-culture cells within society that say, “You don’t ever have to grow up if you side with us and our political agenda… we own a slice of public reality that allows you to forego most of the frustrations of the reality principle”. And then women or men join the group. Psychoanalysts refer to this as the “narcissistic contract” whereby protection and indulgence is assured by the sub-culture based on absolute allegiance to the group. In other words, if a woman pledges absolute allegiance to the ranks of feminism she will be sheltered permanently from the need to grow up… but of course there is a trade-off in that she will also need to be a faithful servant of the feminist message.
Corneleus Castoriadis wrote about this:
Oh, and a recommendation to fathers: stop calling your daughters “princess” by the time they turn 10rs. This will help with acceptance of the reality principle. (PS. of course you can go on secretly thinking of your daughters as princesses
A ‘passion for military men’. It’s all right here: http://video.foxnews.com/v/1363164924001/the-american-sniper/?playlist_id=87937&intcmp=obnetwork Terrifying how the female mind works where the ‘enemy’ is concerned. Notice no questions about how he will remember those 150 shots going ‘home’ as he ages.
I’d love to see hot blondes like this babe bravely and willingly risk her ‘love’ in service to our country and to protect us all. It might change the utterly infantile nature of the female perspective on combat. The obscenity of modern combat is the kind of chilling thing that women need to know first hand.
“Fuck you, Mom” -a scene from Born On The Fourth Of July shows how he will perhaps feel one day.
Let’s hope.
“I love when a man waits patiently inside an elevator to let all the ladies out first.”
Ladies? What are those, exactly? Having come of age in the 1990s, I don’t believe I have ever seen such a thing. I have only heard of them spoken of, mythically, like unicorns.
Neely, next time you’re in an elevator, don’t stand directly in front of the doors. It’s rude and makes it harder for men to get past you.
I think I actually dislike this Neely chick more than the radfems.
At least the radfems are honest about their plans to turn men into appliances.
The Neely chick is just Machiavellian.
“I love men when they serve us”
The greatest irony and most hilarious statement in the world is when western feminists and women pretend men are the privileged sex and how people with privilege can’t see and aren’t aware of that privilege.
I think she deserves some applause for coming here and standing up for her views with an open mind to our concerns.
This is really what we wanted all along.
“This is really what we wanted all along.”
Ok then, MRM over, we won.
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Easy there, I was just joshin’.
AVFM does more to foster open debate than GMP project ever could.
Every single article on the good men project is infused with these 2 messages:
1. Men are to be viewed solely as a force affecting women
2. Men by and large are not good
It’s a bigoted website. All the “anti-feminist” writers there are good cops to lure guys in, so that they can absorb the rest of the shaming language.
Here’s a man who is good for women: a man who will fight women from constantly minimizing the value of men. That way women won’t feel DEGRADED being with us.
Women constantly tell each other stuff like “let him come to you” and “you deserve better.” It won’t be too long before more guys will get angry at other guys who allow themselves to be seen as merely sperm donors+wallets. And it didn’t have to come to this.
“I’ve put myself in the lion’s den”
Neely, I really enjoyed reading your work and your heart seems to be in the write place. That being said, this is no lion’s den. AVfM is simply a no-bullshit zone.
The killers over at Radfem, well, that’s an entirely different story. Radfem is the “lion’s den” where psychopathic shit bags gather to discuss the final solution to that pesky male question.
Again, enjoyed your writings.
Neely Steinberg is a writer cynically carving a niche as a contrarian feminist.
She has no tested affinity with men’s rights.
“It’s a bigoted website. All the “anti-feminist” writers there are good cops to lure guys in, so that they can absorb the rest of the shaming language.”
JFINN, that is right on the money mate. The tone there has changed some in recent weeks but that is easily explained away. There original message is not gaining acceptance so they have tried to adjust there bait a bit. In the end they can not deviate from there original intent of encouraging male servitude and here is why, the survival of feminism is completely reliant on male silence, male acceptance and male servitude. Simply put, feminism is parasitic in nature. Some men are no longer willing to play host.
“Name one obligation that women have towards men?” Jean Valjean
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“If it takes me longer than 10 minutes to respond, it doesn’t mean I’m avoiding.”
With all due respect Neely, I don’t recall posing a question. Also, you might read up a bit before you go on the defensive. Just a thought.
Women have “choice”. Men have no choice. All men have is RESPONSIBILITY.
If a woman does not want to be a parent she can abort. If she later decides she does not want to be a parent, she can freely leave her children in a fire station or police station.
If a man does not want to be a parent, tough shit. He WILL be parent if SHE chooses. He WILL pay child support if she chooses. There are not options out – unless you consider prison opting out.
If a man DOES want to be a parent, tough shit. He will be a parent if SHE decides he may.
It’s the same for ever man, so that’s what makes it “equal”.
Neely: Jeez, OperationPutOut: Don’t get your panties in a bunch.
That’s Operation Opt Out not Put Out. I’m sure that’s just wishful thinking on your part.
NeelyL Most of these children are raised by women; the fathers are nonexistent.
All of these men do exist. Some are killed by violence, others are discarded by the mothers and still others are forced out by government programs that reward the mother for doing so. And then there is widespread misandry and the innate selfishness of women who use reproduction as a way of getting a paycheck.
Neely: I’m not placing blame necessarily on the men for disappearing, but is it not then women’s obligation to raise men’s progeny in these instances. I see this as an obligation towards the men who were equal players in creating a human being.
Funny how it’s always “our” kid when you want something but when we want equal parental rights it’s always “your” kid.
To answer your question: No. No woman is ever obligated to have a child. It’s a choice that women make autonomously and often without the consent of the father. No man who has not expressly consented to father a child should be expected to be a father or punished for not being a father or providing support. Women have an “out” at every stage of reproduction. From a myriad of birth control options to abortion to be used before, during, and after sex, to abortion and adoption. All of which can be used unilaterally and concurrently thus guaranteeing 100% that she will produce no children that she does not choose to. No man has this reproductive control. Therefore, no man should ever be held to the same standard of accountability as a woman.
Women bitterly lament a time when most of the time men got custody of children. Back then women didn’t have to pay men a dime in child support. Now women get custody most of the time but men have to pay women. If you want the kid all to yourself; if you want to shut men out of the child’s life then you should bear the full cost of raising that child and not force it on men or the state. BTW that’s called “equality”.
“70% of children in African-American families are born to single mothers…..(I blame feminism and entitled programs, in part, for creating this enviroment)”
The problem of the Negro people in America didn’t start with feminism and the welfare system—they simply exacerbated it. To be more accurate we’d have to be more explicit, and to be more explicit we’d have to go to the real seat of the problem. You’ve been too simplistic in your analysis. The Negro phenomenon must be viewed in its historical context because the conditions of today were determined by what took place in the past.
It’s fashionable today to tell Negroes “forget the past and let’s move on,” or “stop bringing up the past!” But it’s only in a careful study of this history that we may see more clearly the great theatre of events in which the Negro people—specially the men—were [forced] to play a part. We may then understand better what role he has been forced to play and why so many of them “are not around” or are “non-existent.”
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch#g/a
See this channel, the videos with LPS(Legal Parental Surrender) and the others are good too.
” I’m not placing blame necessarily on the men for disappearing, but is it not then women’s obligation to raise men’s progeny in these instances. I see this as an obligation towards the men who were equal players in creating a human being”
neely, ya need to do a bit of research on reproductive rights luv! they don’t contrary to popular feminist belief only apply to women!!!!
Its not “mens progeny” its a couples progeny ( you know half the chromosomes come from each!!)
It takes 2 to get pregnant,2 to agree to sex and 2 to agree on what contraception if any is used.
But once a pregnancy occures it takes one ( the woman) to decide to abort or to continue with the pregnancy. If she aborts the father has no say, and cannot intervene to save his child. If she continues and the father wants no to, he cannot opt for an abortion against her will , you know “her body” her choice. But based on “her choice” he can be legally obliged to suport the child (state enforced chivalry) but denied contact. If there was equality in reproductive rights then it would also be ‘his sperm his choice” , should he not wish to continue a pregnancy and the mother declines an abortion, then he should have the right to decline to support the child.
The most immoral action however is for a women to plan and agree with a husband and father to have a family, but then remove the children and still expect him to support them whilst denying the children and father their basic human right of an ongoing and meaningful relationship.
You could think about that one and write an article on it.
Why does the ‘Good Men Project’ site strike me as ‘Jizzabelle Light’, or ‘HefferPo Women+’ ? Grief, what a Trojan horse.
@Neely,
You spew the feminist rhetoric that “I see men and women as being in service to each other equally”, but you avoid the question of what YOU or other women contribute to relationships that is equal value to men’s contributions.
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You’re using the word, so obviously you have some definition in your head. Define it and illustrate it with examples of how men and women are in service to each other equally.
Yes, but the word equal is subjective. What I think may be equal isn’t equal in your eyes (and I’m guessing that will be the case, anyway). If we are talking about being in service to each other equally within relationships (that is, loving relationships in which two people are compatible), though, I would say for starters we service one another equally with our emotional support, physically (as in, sex), and through compromise.
Also, sometimes service to one another in relationships can be lopsided but on net is equal. Maybe the woman works two jobs to help put her husband through school or to help him start a company, knowing that years later he will pull the weight financially. Maybe a man who suffers from depression isn’t able to give emotionally and therefore his girlfriend has to give more in this way, but when he comes through the haze he is able to give back when she is in need. The genders on both of these hypotheticals can, of course, be reversed.
Equality is subjective to you, because you choose to define it that way as it suits your needs.
To me, equality is already well defined by reciprocity of exactly equal actions.
Therein lies the point, modern women (including you and many feminists) define equality as whatever they want. Making a damn sandwich isn’t equal to working in a sewer, dying in war or lifting heavy objects.
Holy crackerjack, you hear that, Female Supremacists? Steely McNeely is on to you-
“Yes, but the word equal is subjective. What I think may be equal isn’t equal in your eyes (and I’m guessing that will be the case, anyway).”
It might be hard to measure the equality of an apple and an orange. You’ll have to excuse us for posing such a question because it has been the same question that feminists have been asking for the last 50 years. How do you make men and women equal? Clearly we are not equal and feminist attempts to make us so have created injustice and misery for millions of men.
Perhaps you would prefer to judge “equity” rather than equality?
If you were to do so then you will find that women are getting a bargain because none of the things they offer men are compulsory.
The eye of the beholder and all. That’s precisely what your gender bigots sisters say when asked to define ‘feminism’. It’s an easy way to play the ugly Orwellian double speak game ad infinitum.
Equality is objective as are all dictionary definitions. Otherwise there would be no basis whatsoever for shared understanding or personal responsibility. The subjective Woman’s Way of Knowing is utter stupidity which destroys communication.
As for servicing one another equally what bunk. Men and women are vastly different animals. Sexual skills, mental talent, emotional ability and a host of other strengths and weaknesses are distributed utterly unequally between the sexes. There is no equal ‘giving back when in need’ possible if the differences are unequal throughout the relationship thanks to essential sex differences.
It looks very much like you have swallowed Valley Girl nonsense hook line and sinker. It also looks like you have bought the Big Lie that feminists spread about equality between the sexes. You seem be an utterly confused little girl who cannot or will not see the “gender”-as-sex indoctrination that you are drowning in.
Equity (which acknowledges serious inequalities) might indeed be possible between the sexes (after feminist has been tossed to the dogs) but that’s not likely anytime soon.
Ask one of your gynocrat fellows. They are expert.
No manipulation indeed?! This loathsome little girl game is getting very very old. I’m getting more and more angry to that I ever bothered to even consider taking you seriously.
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Oh, yes, of course, you have been a silent reader of AVfM all this time, and you have only now just chosen to speak so that you can defend a woman’s traditional expectation that men will ride in the back of the bus for her. Sure. Whatever.
I don’t have a list of things I love about women, so I can’t post one. And that is the fucking point here. I could easily make a list of things I admire in people; honesty, integrity, fairness, etc. But I don’t live my life walking around telling myself and others what they are supposed to be based on whether they have a penis or vagina. News flash for you Einstein, that is not love, it is sexism. It is bigotry. Dressing it up in warm and fuzzies, and more importantly, turning it into a reward because you have no concept of you own manhood that excludes you as cannon fodder and lapdog, doesn’t make it any less sexist.
And I must say, your last paragraph was very telling. You and your parents have money and education, so no one should criticize you? Are you fucking serious? Yep, you are, which is why everything else you said needs to be seen through the lens of your own idiocy. And for the record, my Daddy had a fish worm farm, so don’t argue with me.
Do yourself, and everyone here, a favor. Please prostrate yourself to Neely in one of her venues. This kind of stuff here makes me embarrassed for you.
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Hi Neely, my bio, which has everything relevant to my opinions is here:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/paul-elam/
Respectfully, I asked you one very simple question. In fact, a yes or no proposition. I would appreciate your direct answer to it, rather than referring me to hunt down one of your other comments to someone else. Thank you.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Q: “Same goes for men who have had terrible experiences with women. I’d be interested in hearing people on this site’s personal stories to see how those experiences have shaped their thinking.”
Even MORE telling, Neely- maybe YOU could expound a little on what YOU percieve men’s horrible experiences might be.
Ask any man, any time, any where what women’s terrible experiences are and they CAN and WILL tell you – they know because the have ALWAYS taken an interest in protecting women from harm.
To the very best of your knowledge – can YOU give us just a few details of what YOU think MEN’S terrible experiences might be?
It would be interesting to know YOU actually hear what these men are trying to tell you.
@Neely
“Marcotte was raped; another feminist I know was abandoned by her father when she was young”
How many rapes have you heard of that are sanctioned by the UN? Look around and see how much institutionalized, world sanctioned sexism happens toward women.
Food relief was given to women only in Haiti. Sanctioned by the UN. Name one bit of outright discrimination against women that is actually sanctioned by the UN.
Most of the men on this site are against unjust laws that are biased or outright sexist against men. How such laws got passed was due to a general feeling in the population that men are utility and anything that happens to a woman is 10 times worse than anything that happens to a man. It’s dehumanizing and ubiquitous.
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You:
1/ Wealthy American background.
2/ Both parents educated.
3/ Father a soldier, mother a homemaker.
4/ Worked in Car and chemical factories during summer breaks while studying.
5/ Studied physics and history.
6/ A year working in engineering and consulting.
7/ Graduate degree.
8/ Speak two languages conversant in another.
9/ Builds a financial model quickly,
10/ Rebuilt engine of a 1963 Corvette Stingray with bare hands (no gloves)
11/ Successful, accomplished man that is lucky to be loved by somebody as intelligent, beautiful, and appreciative as Neely.
Me:
1/ Brought up inside the bum of a giant cement relief of Eggbert Humperdink.
2/ Both parents juggled Rhino craps on footpaths for education.
3/ Father loves doughnuts, mother scared of apricots.
4/ Worked as an inner clown trainer for the shut ins.
5/ Studied “The art of Motorised Coffins that Glow in the Dark” by the cadaver of Dianne Arbust.
6/ A year studying my knob and nuts.
7/ Another year studying my knob and nuts.
8/ Speak five languages, (made them all up myself)
9/ Can build a model of my knob and nuts really quickly.
10 Rebuilt an enormous lego construction of an actual stingray with my bare feet (no shoes)
11/ Successful lucky man lucky to be loved by the lollipop woman who in actual fact has a stellar set of norks and a lush bush probably.
Now, you rather puffed up person, how does any of your list or my list make the slightest difference to the content of what we have to say ?
I don’t mind looking foolish, but I’ll bet the very thought of it happening to you is scary and it seems you did it in spades.
Your partner will grow weary of your self adulation.
…8/ Speak five languages, (made them all up myself)
Dude, no way! Me, too! Frmki loop mikamika?
Stop it ! You’ll just encourage me to talk more shit.
This is obviously neely’s partner.
“We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
- Neely Steinberg on male genital mutilation
“I’ve got to say, there is a lot of bitterness on this website.” Correct. You say it as if your an insulated tool with no sense of reality. Oh that’s right, you are.
Hey HotRod Trustfund McFucknuckle. Come back in a year after her hypergamic instincts kick in and your orgasmatron haze wears off and she’s stolen your children, gutted your assets, seized all products of your future labor, sentenced you to debtors prison, and slandered you with molesting your children and ‘domestic violence’ to accomplish the feat. Don’t sweat it because you have NO RECOURSE. And fuck yourself before you scoff and feign ‘absurdity’- there’s major motion pictures about it starring for example George Clooney, as well as essential books, see Racket, The Woman. Not to mention the 80% of divorces initiated by females, ‘no-fault’. Let’s see your adorable ‘list of 20′, then.
The most ignorance, childish naivete, and hollow ‘education’ around here is oozing out of you. Not to mention a nasty case of narcissism. But alas, birds do flock.
” Hey HotRod Trustfund McFucknuckle. ”
Wonderful stuff.
Agreed. A beautiful take on the rusty knight, painted with flaking white Rust-Oleum, that I want to call “Mistah Wing-Tits.”
The shaming language starts in the first paragraph.
Predictable. Manginism personified. Has it all along with white knighting. Sad excuse for a human being.
From what I gather, you have only been with Neely for a relatively short while….correct? Also, I believe just a short while back, she was with someone else……or did I read wrong. Also, didn’t I read that the last relationship ended badly and they aren’t on good terms.
I got one thing to say…..you next….and come back in a couple of years and tell us how lucky you are than.
I could be wrong, but I reckon 75% chance I’ll be right.
When her feelings have waned, there is nothing……nothing…..no reason whatsoever……not legal…..not social…..for her to stay with you……no matter if you have kids, joint property, house, mortgage etc etc. She will have no drawbacks at all…..in dumping your arse and trading up to the next better guy…..in fact she has every legal and financial incentive to do just that. Say thanks to feminism.
He will not listen to you Stu. He is happy been the recipient of her strap-on.
Would you not love it when your wife/gf prepared you a dinner upon your arrival home even though she had a long day herself?
A man can’t even say he likes such a thing without being called a sexist.
I might be able to make a list of things I would like but it would merely be wishful thinking.
Or that she’ll do the dishes after cooking so that you can druel over your own homo-erotic fantasies while watching UFC?
Here you reveal what a liar you are. This is right out of the female playbook. When talking to men if you can’t make a convincing point then make sure you question their masculinity and hurl insults and insinuations.
I doubt you’ve ever lurked here before. In fact, judging by this line you reveal who you really are:
I am a successful, accomplished man that is lucky to be loved by somebody as intelligent, beautiful, and appreciative as Neely.
You are Neely’s mangina boyfriend aren’t you? You couldn’t even be honest about that but you expect us to take you at your word for the rest?
Your entitled life as the son of wealthy parents has created in you a solipsistic mind. You simply have no concept of being passed over because a company or school gave a woman preferential treatment because when you have money you already get the best of education and already have connections to get the best jobs.
When feminists bitch about how the patriarchy ruled over women and men had all the power they are actually talking about the few men who ruled everyone else because they had money and influence. Men just like you. The irony is that men like you are the men they most want to fuck.
@wingtips.
-And the men who therefore, by definition, also financially and verbally supports feminism.
In other words, you are the enemy just as much as any batshit crazy bitch at RadFem.hub. Maybe even worse, because you’ve sold out the only people you should ever pledge allegiance to:
-Your fellow men.
Let me tell you a little something, that you might not want to hear:
When the feminists finally succeed in their plans of eradicating the male population down to the 10% that is their stated goal, you will be among those taken to the camps along with the rest, just as soon as you’ve fulfilled your purpose. And not a single man is going to help change that scenario for you.
Not a single one.
Really, i mean she just called his boyfriend on us, i mean is this reality, maybe im in a movie?
Made it half way through the third item and now I’ll be cleaning up vomit the rest of the day.
I knew the name Neely was familiar.
Remember Catherine Kieu Becker?
Neely here has/had a show together with someone that goes by the name ‘Nic’ (Nicole Johnson). The show is called ‘Nic and Neely’.
Back then, Nic and Neely created two episodes, one titled: “Nic and Neely’s Newsroom: The Catherine Becker Case” and the other called: “9 Reasons To Never Cut Off Your Man’s Penis”.
They have since taken down both episodes (I remember sending a angry message to them and I urged others to do the same.)
I remember seeing them sitting around laughing and giggling while discussing the whole subject.
Evidence that one of the episodes once existed, you can find here: http://www.frequency.com/video/9-reasons-to-ne/12041547
And here:
http://www.savevid.com/video/nic-and-neelys-newsroom-the-catherine-becker-case.html
Odd title of a video for someone who claims to love and cherish men, no?
I can only imagine if a man created such videos: “9 Reasons To Never Mutilate Your Partner’s Vagina”
Hey Neely, how about the fact that just a few reasons are enough?
1. It’s fucking crazy.
2. It makes you a violent criminal.
3. It’s absoultely fucking disgusting.
But apparently, Neely here is a person who actually feels the need to sit down and create a list for herself on why she ought not to mutilate another human being.
Maybe there’s a way to download or view removed YouTube videos.
Victorsvoice
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
http://tpn.thepulsenetwork.com/Episodes.aspx?s=the-dating-pulse-with-nic-and-neely#video
Horrifying episode. You would never do a show laughing the whole time about a mutilated woman.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Oh yeah, because MAKING FUN OF A MAN WHO JUST SUFFERED VIOLENT GENITAL MUTILATION is totally okay to laugh about. Those MRAs are so PC!
Seriously, just stop. You are disgusting. So fucking disgusting I can’t even express my rage.
“9 Reasons To Never Cut Off Your Man’s Penis”.
Words absolutely fail me. I don’t understand how a human being could ever trivialise something like this.
Let me guess, your nine reasons all had to do with how men can use their penises to make YOU feel good.
“We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
- Neely Steinberg on male genital mutilation
Regarding slicing off a man’s penis and throwing it in the garbage disposal — Neely wrote: “Have women and men become so sensitive and PC nowadays, that we are unable to laugh at anything anymore?”
OK, let us both laugh at your mother being raped. Go ahead, start a scenario and I’ll join you in amusement. But don’t forget to keep a light attitude about it!
If you came here and read men joking and laughing about women losing their breasts to cancer, would THAT be funny?
If you read rape jokes or sexual slavery jokes would you consider that just all light hearted fun?
…or the mindset of a very sick, sadistic person?
“Have women and men become so sensitive and PC nowadays, that we are unable to laugh at anything anymore?”
No they haven’t.
Political Correctness is totally dead.
There’s a new Broadway show in the works as we speak, called “Jack the Ripper: The Musical”. It’s a glorious send-up about vaginal mutilation, in a frivilous and light hearted context.
You SHOULD talk about them again, Neely. If you are serious about being more sensitive, why don’t you write an article or do a video on what you have learned from your experiece while being INsensitive.
I have news for you, though. I know it won’t happen. For the record, I don’t find anything funny about sexual mutilation, regardless of the sex of the victim.
But if I am being too PC and sensitive, how about I write a jolly fun thank you to whoever raped and beat Amanda Marcotte? Would that give you the laugh you are looking for?
@Tom: You were right. You know your Neely types
1) Its a crime
2) What if you reconcile
3) your name will live forever in infamy
4) your actions may make him famous a.l.a john bobbtt
5) you never want your partner to cut off your genitals
6) seeking therapy will help diffuse your anger
7) your personal and professional prospects will be tainted forever
8) you will have to explain your violent actions to your friends and family
9) if you are looking for your 15 minutes of fame, this is not the way to do it. Ask Anthony Weiner
I don’t know, ask your ‘feminist’ EEKWALITEE cunts who INVENTED PC, you falsely accusing tardbot.
Juxtapose
“I just can’t for the life of me wrap my brain cell around what these evil men are correctly bitter about.” I so feel your pain, McNeely.
Guys… You know the drill…
Usually after we call people out on their bigotry, evidence usually seems to magically disappear… Webites are shut down due to snow storms, etc.
So please download the video.
She should be entered to bigotry category at register-her. How is this any different to the comments and reaction to ‘the view’? How are the excuses any different?
‘we didn’t end on good terms’ What a fucking surprise!
looks like its been taken down now, did anyone save it ?can you repost it somewhere if so???
http://www.mediafire.com/?0lid4c09tz11o6u
http://www.mediafire.com/?s0ms1e327nfbfwy
As posted in the comment thread below.
They removed the page that compiled all of the videos but not links to the individual vids themselves. Denis found them and I uploaded them to mediafire for anyones use.
“We were having a little bit of fun”
Sick fuck.
Sick, sick fuck.
Looks like you missed something off your list.
21. I love how a man screams in agony when he is genitally mutilated; it gives me and my girlfriends something to titter over.
“We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
- Neely Steinberg on male genital mutilation
“I don’t have the video; my old partner took it down – we didn’t part on the best of terms”
Cut his penis off, did you?
“We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
- Neely Steinberg on male genital mutilation
Laughing and “having a bit of fun” while discussing why someone should be sent to prison is hardly believable.
Clearly you think the mutilation of another human being is comedy played out for your amusement.
And tell me again why we should care about violence against women?
Beer swilling and sandwiches are funny. Genital mutilation and torture are not. When you grow up, maybe in 12 reincarnations, you’ll figure that out. In the mean time, tell us some of your best stuff about massacring vaginas. I could use a hearty laugh.
Neely: We were having a little bit of fun, I admit. Apologies if it was offensive.
“IF” it was offensive? Is there any doubt as to whether this is offensive? Do you know a place on this planet where it wouldn’t be offensive to laugh and make jokes about a woman who was poisoned by her husband, strapped to a bed, revived so he could cut her tits off and then throw them both in the garbage disposal?
You think you are a good person. You do your best to be diplomatic and you protest that we are twisting things but like most women you refuse to recognize your own bigotry. It’s there and your dogged determination to minimize or rationalize it is what makes people hostile towards you.
“You think you are a good person. You do your best to be diplomatic and you protest that we are twisting things but like most women you refuse to recognize your own bigotry. It’s there and your dogged determination to minimize or rationalize it is what makes people hostile towards you.”
That was put so terrifically. Dammit the menz impress me.
If I can just repeat that for clarity: “It’s there and your dogged determination to minimize or rationalize it is what makes people hostile towards you.”
Men make beautiful words.
Oh, that is IT.
This Neely is a misandrist scumbag of the worst possible kind. Forget when I compared it to the radfems that Agent Orange exposed. It IS a goddamn radfem.
Paul, this is your site, and you may do as you please. But I would recommend, in light of this revelation, that this thing be blocked from posting on a site for men. It laughs about a man who was mutilated in the worst possible way. In my mind, it does not belong here, but I respect that this is entirely your decision.
Neely: stop trying. There is no way I am about to believe you ‘love’ anything about men when you actually film yourself laughing about a man who suffered genital mutilation. I’d call you a sick puppy, but that would be unfair to sick puppies. I hope your partner knows about this – really, I do – because if I were him I would be getting as far away from you as I could, as fast as possible, in fear for my own life and body.
“We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
- Neely Steinberg on male genital mutilation
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Edit.
I had written something here, but I have changed my mind; I am not going to do it the dignity of a written response.
I was leaning 85% your way Neely,
However, I saw the video and now politely rescind future dialogue with you.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
@Neely,
It may not have been malicious but it does illustrate your complete lack of empathy and love for men as human beings (as opposed to human doings)
I stayed out of it for the most part Dr. F but…..
and what happened to Episode 17?
Was that the one?
Edit: Never mind Snark just posted which one.
Has anyone downloaded them yet?
Everything you say on the Internet is forever.
Neely, why don’t you (and wingtips) grow a pair, stay and explain what’s changed about your point of view, and why? It sound like this is what you were getting at with your first article? or are you a fair weather friend that would go right back to being a sassy man-hater if your current relationship ever soured..
Lesson learned. I DO apologize.
This sounds like “Oops, my bad” in a Reno 911 episode when she ‘accidently” discharged a rocket launcher.
OHPC: I saw this coming a mile away.
She and her brethren require professional help.
They are damaged and most beyond repair.
They can just not see through their bigotry and trust me when surrounded by her sistas and their mangia lackeys in the dens of their echo chamber the blatant misandry will spew forth unabated.
She is as hateful as Marcotte and her ilk.
@scatmaster
Go check out the Lisa Steadman interview, where they compare finding Mr. Right (TM) with finding the perfect pair of shoes.
@Wingtips:
Congratulation with your new found status as a foot appendage.
@Neely Steinberg:
Congrats with the new heavy-thing-lifting shoes, and the subsequent shooting yourself in the foot.
@ Kimski
LOL… now that was sharp.
Will do Kimski. Thanks.
LMAO … now that was quality.
Stu’s video pokes fun at men far more than at women.
It’s not misogynist it’s crude humor. Plus, no one is beating women or cutting them up and laughing about it so it’s hardly a comparison.
You comparison is invalid. However, if it was overtly misogynist there is a limit to how much this site will tolerate. People who are abusive and offensive can and will be reigned in regardless of their affiliation.
That said, which feminist said, “I believe that man-hate is a legitimate response to patriarchy oppression?”
We do have a right to express our legitimate anger at women for the things they have done and continue to do. You call that “misogyny” because you think you can demonize it with that word. We call it expressing the full range of human emotion which is a right denied to us by women who want to control us. If men are not allowed to express emotion then it makes it a lot easier for women to exploit us or watch us die while committing violence on their behalf.
@ neelysteinberg in reply to Dr. F
“I apologize for offending anyone with this video. It didn’t come from a malicious place. But I am very sorry for having made it and to see how much rage and frustration it caused. I won’t take such things so lightly moving forward. It was a mistake. I hope anyone who was offended can accept my apology.
I am truly, truly sorry.”
I’m not going to ridicule this sufficiently apparently sincere apology. However, I do encourage you to consider and reflect upon what you have experienced today in the context of you as a contributor to “The Good Men Project”. WTF? Resignation, maybe?
Actually your wrong Neely. The video I posted is a send up of men. He’s a comedian doing a parody of Alanis Morissette’s song, I’m a bitch I’m a lover.
Yobbos and okas are exaggerated Aussie rough round the edges blokes. They are a cultural icon in Oz. Frequently the subject of jokes and send ups like this one. In reality most of them are good guys, rough as guts with big hearts. They tend to be obsessed with sports, drink way too much, but actually are hardly ever drunk. They usually are employed in trades, labor and all the really hard work that society relies on. The most common vehicle they drive would be the Ute, or a Holden Sedan of some sort. Blue singlets, flannelette shirts, can’t say a single sentence without swearing.
My neighbor is a massive yobbo. Single, owns his own house, has bbqs all the time with yobbo mates over.
I mentioned to my neighbor over the fence a few months back that the fence was falling apart and I was always nailing and screwing boards back on. I suggested we’d have to get a new fence soon. That was it….the next day an army of yobbos, compete with eskies full of cold VBs rolled up in utes full of lumber, power tools in hand…..5 hours later…..and new fence and a mountian of empties. And that’s pretty much what yobbos are like.
If you’re ever broken down on the side of the road and anybody ever stops to help, chances are it will be a yobbo. Most of them are chivalrists……nobody is perfect lol.
Ah yes the ‘yob’. A lovable creature for the most part, parallels can be made to the redneck. Can be quite racist and simplistic (‘except for their ‘wog’ mate at work Who is a ‘good wog’ etc)
Generally called a “bogen” in Melbourne though something of a sub-species.
Yes easy to make fun of the yobbo but things would fall over pretty quick if he weren’t around.
I think it was Meredith Brook’s song, her one hit, but great parody video! Thanks Stu
Neely this is true comedy but you may need to understand Australian culture to appreciate it. Genital mutilation however should be understood to be wrong in any culture, even for an entitled American woman.
Don’t apologise for offending people. Apologise for doing the wrong thing.
Exactly, fuck feelings, they change like the wind anyway. Women are obsessed with them, like they make the world go around, when in reality they produce nothing.
Women frequently get the wrong idea about men who won’t commit to…..commitment phobic. They think men are “afraid” of being hurt……again…..projecting their feelings centric view onto men.
Men aren’t afraid of getting hurt. I don’t know how many times I got this crap when I was collecting fuck buddies like postage stamps…..as soon as the subject came up…..commitment…….I used to just say….not interested. No matter how much I’d try to explain why not, they just don’t get it because they can’t see past their feelings centric views. I wasn’t and never have been afraid of being hurt…..couldn’t give a fuck if a woman dumps my arse and doesn’t see me anymore…..as long as she doesn’t take my house, my money, etc etc on the way out the door. And that is what I was protecting…not my fucking feelings……the produce of my labor….my money……my means of retaining my standard of living that I’d worked hard for.
Nothing to do with feelings.
I respectfully disagree with Tom Snark. I believe everyone should be allowed to speak even women who hate men like Neely here.
Besides, people like Neely and others who post in feminist echo chambers are no match for open and uncensored debate.
I’m all for them showing up and taking a beating (figurative of course).
The rule I generally apply here is intellectual honesty. I am fine with many differeing opinions. I am fine with feminists being here, white knights, etc, and I think the comments here prove it.
But when a person has no intention of responding honestly to questions, and is evasive of points that make them uncomfortable, they offer nothing to the discussion.
So in effect, not everyone is allowed to speak here, and I really prefer it that way. We are still 100 times more tolerant of dissent than any feminist site I can think of, and more than most vanillla sites.
But it is intellectual honesty that seperates a person making a comment from a troll.
Neely has not been honest.
Lacking intellectual honesty assumes there’s an intellect to begin with. We’re witnessing someone who doesn’t even understand the difference between passive and active behavior in verbal exchanges.
Actually, Tom, I have another website that I intend to showcase her on in a few days. I will run the announcement here as well so we can make sure that the search engines give it high profile.
In fact, I said in a few days because I am up to my eyeballs behind on the show and on a huge series we are about to run on Australia. If you would like to do the honors and make the entry, I will notify John. That goes for anyone else here as well. She has been qualified.
As to banning her, I will give her an opportunity to start practicing some intellectual honesty before doing that. It is the warning I give everyone before taking that step.
So here is the deal, either she comes up to task and acutually answers honestly the questions posed about her OP over at GMP, or I will invite her out the side door.
Sorry Neely, rules is rules. That man you were giggling at has been mutilated for life, the very core of his masculinity, his future sex life, his health and well being, including psychological, all stolen. It is not a fucking joke except to a sick, sick fuck.
Come to think of it, not sorry at all. Do us all a favor and go ahead and get the fuck off my website.
When Dr.F wrote this yesterday:
“Uh oh…
Right now Paul has caught up about this video and my guess it’s better to turn away in a minute.
It’s going to look ugly.”
-I don’t think there was a single MRA present, who didn’t know what was going to happen next. Can’t say I’m going to cry myself to sleep over it.
Thanks mate, the last two lines buttoned up you post abso-bloody-lutely.
Our Andybob and our Dr.F, that guy that talks in the third person, read in detail Neely’s articles and got wobbly legs with delight about a women taking one on the chin and swinging a few back at Ms Marcotte.
While our quickness to hold up a hand and ask for more inspection was commendable, it was a poor substitute for a measured analysis through the glass of more patience. So yeah, I felt like a bit of a donk and so did our Andybob.
Praise goes to Victorsvoice for ringing the bell on her, and it was interesting to see in a matter of seconds the number of posts splashed about here like cards from a croupiers hand.
It reminded me when as a kid I’d be in the bush with my brother and for a laugh we’d stomp about near a bull ants nest and watch as hundreds of the little buggers would come running out angry as a mad woman’s washing. They were always furious as they fell about each other, but we always respected them because we knew if we mucked about with them we’d get nipped. Not only that, but if one of them got you then it was game over, you had to run because the rest were going for you.
Anyway, I’ll think twice before I think some of you are getting a bit too easily twitched, in fact I’ll be shutting my gob next time and watching you like a frightened flyer watches keenly every line and furrow on an air hostess in bad weather. (Tom and Perseus for example.)
Yesterday was an extremely interesting turn of events don’t you think ? I say it because here we had someone on the site typing voluminous post after the other, at a typing speed I can only envy, and then once the offending evidence had been presented the abruptness of the wall of silence that came was enough to blow your hat back on and relight your pipe.
Kudos to Scatters for grabbing the video before it vanished and then raising it again so it may be handled with a long set of tongs. (Incredible timing really. I mean we were all just talking about it and then it went away.)
Paul, your capacity to hear unpopular voices from suspicious camps is beyond admirable, and I can see the fence you walk on these matters is sharp indeed. In this woman’s case I applaud your ‘one strike you’re out’ response and your subsequent pulling back the lever on the ejection seat.
That’s all I really wanted to say and oh yeah Paul, how did it feel when you did indeed pull back that lever ?
Great post and I am blushing. Please stop. 8)
Blush away Scatters because it won’t matter one bit, you dug into the dunny and threw that dollop of dung on the wall. A service to all brothers and sisters of MRA bent.
You can always stand under a red light to disguise the fact of your blushing, just don’t show a bit of leg or you might be asked, “How much for prong in the hay buddy ?”
Paul/anyone:
I’ve written a text summary which I’m pasting below. Unfortunately I lack the tools to create a pdf file, which is requested on register-her, nor do I have the videos to hand. Someone who downloaded/uploaded them could link them in. I also don’t have the city etc. information. But anyone please feel free to use my text:
In an episode of ‘Nic and Neely’ entitled ‘Nic and Neely’s Newsroom: The Catherine Becker Case,’ Neely Steinberg and co-host Nicole Johnson can be witnessed laughing openly at a man who was drugged, tied up and sexually mutilated by his wife, Catherine Kieu Becker, because he asked for a divorce.
A subsequent episode, entitled ’9 Reasons To Never Cut Off Your Man’s Penis,’ suggests that women should not commit this crime, although the nine reasons given all have to do with what would be best for women – i.e. they might get arrested, it might impact upon their careers, or the man might end up getting famous (as did John Bobbit), which is not the desired outcome. Nowhere is the humanity, dignity or bodily integrity of men suggested as a reason for not mutilating men. It can be inferred that, if women did not fear reprisals in the form of legal punishment or professional sanctions, there would be no reason not to genitally mutilate men, in the opinions of the hosts.
Another episode of ‘Nic and Neely’ deals with circumcision. While the hosts take an ultra-serious tone regarding female genital mutilation, declaring it wrong in all cases, male genital mutilation is treated lightly; the hosts make a lot of fun of newborn baby boys’ genitals being mutilated, adding a ‘fun’ visual. The conclusion of the piece is that while FGM is a serious matter and strictly wrong, MGM is something that is funny and should be supported.
More recently, Neely Steinberg posted an article to the Good Men Project, in which she listed twenty things she loves about men. You would be forgiven, initially, for thinking that her list shows genuine and sincere appreciation and affection for men. On closer inspection, however, nearly every item on the list involves what men do for her to make her feel loved, or to make her life easier. Nowhere does she suggest an appreciation for men as they are, only for what they can do for her. Apparently, to be worthy of Neely Steinberg’s love, a man must be servile (rubbing her feet when he is more exhausted then she is), chivalrous (ladies first), and accepting of his subordinate role (working in a sewer or as cannon fodder).
Much like the episode of ‘Nic and Neely’ entitled ’9 Reasons To Never Cut Off Your Man’s Penis,’ this list makes it clear that men are valued purely according to their utility to women. The suggestion that men may possess positive qualities besides those which benefit women is not apparent anywhere.
As childish as the list is, it is not the reason why Neely Steinberg is listed on register-her.com. The reason why she appears on here is the aforementioned videos, in which she apparently believes it acceptable to publicly belittle a man who has just been mutilated for life, and has had the very core of his masculinity, his future sex life, his health and well being, including psychological, all stolen from him in the most violent and grotesque way imaginable.
The list of twenty reasons why she (ostensibly) loves men merely gives us insight into the way she views men. This issue was raised by Paul Elam at A Voice for Men, and Neely herself showed up in the comments section to defend her views. Although willing to apologise for the offence caused by giggling over the thought of men being mutilated, she did not appear to grasp the reason why this might be considered offensive by men; going so far as to suggest that the problem actually lies with men for being horrified at a brutal sexual mutilation. It seems clear that whatever ‘love’ Neely believes she has for men is not easily recognisable as ‘love’ in any genuine sense of the word.
“We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
- Neely Steinberg on male genital mutilation
Tom.
Done, where do I email it to ? Here’s my email
mra.effdoff@gmail.com
Outstanding work, Tom.
Holy shit- that McNeely? I remember that reprehensible shitbag, I wanted to punch my computer through a wall when I saw that performance. I can’t even talk about how disgusting Neely was. Defies descript.
Neely, I want to see the follow-up episode. I want to see the episode where you and your glamqueens gleefully and raucously exalt skewering and mutilation of vaginas and uteri, upon request for divorce. Come on, let’s see that PC transcendent sense of humor of yours shine through like a laser. Have some fucking integrity, will you? Just a goddamn trace of it? Breath not held.
Inhumane children in large bodies, caked in face paint, running the world. Thank you cult of femaleism.
Btw, genius recall, victor.
What the fuck is up with this Kneely-broad and her lists anyway?
So I re-posted the list on a popular website about marriage and divorce. However, I switched the genders. 20 things I love about women. I had to tweak a few of the items. Like the sewer/soldier stuff to “I love how, as equality spreads, women in the future…”
Responses so far:
“Some of that was nice but most of it was condescending and sickening…right out of the ’50′s..yuck!”(written by “A Canadian”)
“What a crock! You sound like a male chauvinist pig to me. ‘A Canadian’: I think you nailed this guy!”
“That’s sweet. Men should have some of those traits to though. Like rubbing his partner’s feet after a long day at work.”
” You need a therapist not a women.”
” “I love being big spoon”
I’ll have to show this to hubby.”
“21. I’m amazed how they can bleed for a week and not die.
22. I love how they can bury a bone without getting their nose dirty.
Subtly isn’t your strong suite, obviously.”
“Many women already work as Health Inspectors, and yes, they inspect sewers amongst other things…
Just saying…”
I’ll update this later.
What do you know? When you say these kind of things about women, it’s sexist.
Still, given the revelation that this neely thing laughs about men being mutilated, I can’t say I’m surprised any more that it would put out the list above.
It’s not ignorance. It’s hatred.
“We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
- Neely Steinberg on male genital mutilation
Neely’s tweets about the people objecting to her “20 things I love about men” article:
“NeelySteinberg Some felt my list was too much about traditional masculine qualities and therefore limiting. Oh well @Gabdate I can’t understand what a man wouldn’t like from that list. I don’t get it.”
If you read that comment section – most of the objections voiced here exist there. She’s intentionally misrepresenting them. They make it clear that the problem is that public gender issues are always gynocentric, even when talking “about” men. Also:
“Aren’t you sweet! Some guys are not very fond of it. Sometimes you just can’t win.
”
“Ha, thx for the RT Keisha. Let’s just say that some people take themselves waaaay too seriously.
@quiethaylestorm post was nice. the comments?? wowzers”
Of course, if men took themselves anywhere near as seriously as modern women do, this growing MRM wouldn’t be necessary.
“MenAreJerks Men Are Jerks
RT @GoodMenProject: 20 Things I Love About Men @NeelySteinberg loves men and shares a list of qualities > Yes, there is an upside!”
No surprise that someone named “men are jerks” would like her article. Interesting that Neely RT’d her on Neely’s twitter page, though
I’m a Canadian, your “A Canadian” can go f* herself..
http://tpn.thepulsenetwork.com/Episodes.aspx?s=the-dating-pulse-with-nic-and-neely#video
Neely Steinberg deserves a place on register-her.com
Category: Bigot
At or about 1:17, “We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
Yes very much out there of how she feels about men’s pain.
Wow, what a POS she is.
Which video #? I got a list of them following your link.
One titled: “Nic and Neely’s Newsroom: The Catherine Becker Case” and the other called: “9 Reasons To Never Cut Off Your Man’s Penis”.
Only the one with the 9 reasons seems to be there Tom.
The other one I can recall from my memory and with the help of an old comment that I left on a YouTube video back then.
So you will only find one of the two videos there, Paul.
I am still trying to download it. Not having much luck.
Uh oh…
Right now Paul has caught up about this video and my guess it’s better to turn away in a minute.
It’s going to look ugly.
Congrats, guys.
You most certainly caught yourselves a nice pair of bigots there.
Now, how to cook them.
Will they be served smoked or fried?
I vote “stewed in their own juices.”
Originally I offered to contribute a pressure-cooker, but now I realize that AVfM is pressure-cooker enough.
Looks like they have got rid of the episodes on the pulse network as well. The link forwards to a different area of the site. Good thing we got it downloaded in time they are so transparent.
The Glove and The Lions – James Henry Leigh Hunt
King Francis was a hearty king, and loved a royal sport,
And one day as his lions fought, sat looking on the court;
The nobles filled the benches, and the ladies in their pride,
And ‘mongst them sat the Count de Lorge, with one for whom he sighed:
And truly ’twas a gallant thing to see that crowning show,
Valour and love, and a king above, and the royal beasts below.
Ramped and roared the lions, with horrid laughing jaws;
They bit, they glared, gave blows like beams, a wind went with their paws;
With wallowing might and stifled roar they rolled on one another;
Till all the pit with sand and mane was in a thunderous smother;
The bloody foam above the bars came whisking through the air;
Said Francis then, “Faith, gentlemen, we’re better here than there.”
De Lorge’s love o’erheard the King, a beauteous lively dame
With smiling lips and sharp bright eyes, which always seemed the same;
She thought, the Count my lover is brave as brave can be;
He surely would do wondrous things to show his love of me;
King, ladies, lovers, all look on; the occasion is divine;
I’ll drop my glove, to prove his love; great glory will be mine.
She dropped her glove, to prove his love, then looked at him and smiled;
He bowed, and in a moment leaped among the lions wild:
The leap was quick, return was quick, he has regained his place,
Then threw the glove, but not with love, right in the lady’s face.
“By God!” said Francis, “rightly done!” and he rose from where he sat:
“No love,” quoth he, “but vanity, sets love a task like that.”
Glorious, Denis. Thank you for that gem.
Okay, So I frequent both this site, GMP, Dalrock, Standyourground, Feministing, and a few other gender sites, so I feel like I have a good enough background to comment and get slaughtered by both the Feminist and MRA.
The big problem I found with Neely’s article was its inconsisty with the main theme. In her article she points out that she wanted write the qualities she loved about men without factoring in any ” feminism, slut shaming or gender depictions in the media or rape culture.” The first 6 or 7 examples, though, pretty much say “in my opinion a man is only good at the service of his woman.” How is this not factoring in feminism?
Admittably, I do help out a lot with the housework at home, in fact, I think I do a bit more than my wife, but this isn’t something that makes me good. It is something I do because I want to show my appreciation and love to my wife. Me doing this does not make me inherently a good man. I force myself to do it and work on it. If the author wanted to make a point of men’s qualities then the articles without having any feminist input, then a women should not even come into the equation. Something like this:
1. I love how a man sets goals and works hard to achieve those goals.
2. I love how men constantly explore, research, and invent things to make society better than it is now.
The statement above has no canotation to feminism and rape culture at all. Any feminist would come in here and make it a point that many women have the two qualities above as well, but that’s not the point. The point is the overwhelming majority of men are good without having to service women. This is inherent goodness, this is goodness that feminists/MRA/any other groups don’t have to teach men how to do, history as shown us that.
What Neely put isn’t all bad, it just misses the point. She isn’t listening to what commenters like the one that posted “…the good men project inevitably implies that men are not basically good by default, but work has to be put in to making them that way, or in finding the exceptions who are,” are saying. She is ignoring it and trying to cover it up under the disguise of something else.
http://tpn.thepulsenetwork.com/Episodes.aspx?s=the-dating-pulse-with-nic-and-neely#video
Another chilling episode of the Nic and Neely show. They make a lot of fun of newborn baby boys’ genitals being mutilated(adding a ‘fun’ visual.) When the issue of female circumcision was briefly broached – oh, you better believe the tone turned extremely serious. Neely correctly states that the common lies about medical benefits have been debunked while Nic passionately argues for newborn baby boy genital mutilation and filibusters with a ton of lies.
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Morgri,
I respect your opinion. But why not let an 18 year old decide if he wants to sacrifice sexual pleasure and erectile dysfunction at his later years(both bad for men)for these supposed benefits?
It is well documented that the myth that circumcised teenagers masturbate less was a big motivator to make this common. Furthermore, circumcision is big money in America, so I would love to research who is behind your unbiased sources. I know this makes me sound conspiracy theory-ey, but I can’t for the life of me understand the rush to not wait even 15 years for this. I don’t feel grateful that the risk of getting AIDS at 7 was lessened by half of a percent for me.
Having said all that. The aspect of the video I have a problem with was poking a lot of fun the boy’s issue and getting really serious about the girl’s issue. All this was done while one of the hosts took the position that there are no benefits to male circumcision. Now, if you believed that, wouldn’t you be somewhat as horrified by it as you would by female circumcision? To those who claim that it isn’t the same: most female circumcisions cut ‘only’ a part of the clitoris. So, keeping that in mind, can we protest Sudanese circumcision while joking about Egyptian circumcision while posting videos of an Arby’s sandwich getting chopped(similarly to what they did in the video?)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Put it this way if you will.
I never got ‘docked’ and am now in a position to make a choice about getting my foreskin chopped or not.
Take a guess what my decision is and always will be ?
Yep, same as a woman making the choice or not to have her clit hood snipped.
What more research do you need? The first three years of a baby’s life are a major part of the hardwiring process. Trauma gets hardwired into the brain along with everything else. Circumcision without anesthetic hardwires trauma into a male infant’s brain.
http://www.circumcision.org/response.htm
“Circumcision resulted in significantly higher levels of behavioral distress and blood cortisol levels than did the other procedures.”
Tough shit, little man.
WTF! Either it’s wrong for both sexes or it’s OK for both.
Is there any unbiased research for FGM? Anything that might even attempt to explore whether there are benefits to removing the clitoral hood?
The whole premise is wrong!
I never said it was wrong for a women to have her clitoral hood snapped, that’s up to her. I realize this opinion may be unpopular here. I haven’t looked at FGM because I really don’t care about it. Circumcision was a more recent topic I got into because of the MRA’s distaste about, so I simply researched. Circumcision.org is a site that is extremely biased against circumcision, you can make the case that circinfo.net is extremely biased for it. Like it or not, there is evidence that shows circumcision is beneficial and there is evidence showing that it isn’t.
Loss of nerve endings blunting sexual intimacy counts don’t you think ?
“I never said it was wrong for a women to have her clitoral hood snapped, that’s up to her.”
How many baby boys had that choice?
I don’t dispute that there are two sides of the debate.
What you shouldn’t dispute is that circumcision is a permanent elective amputation of part of the male genitalia without the consent of that male.
What also shouldn’t be in dispute is that there are an abundance of health problems including deformities, sexual dysfunction, and life long pain that result from circumcision that isn’t being discussed by anyone. Look at the site I posted and tell me if you’ve ever heard or seen anything like that? Many men have those problems and never know enough about it to get help.
Why? Well let’s just say that when it comes to talking about female reproductive issues or male reproductive issues in the U.S. women always get more coverage.
We’re all equal. It’s just that women are more equal.
The medical benefits listed are spurious at best. For instance they claim it reduces yeast infections. Of course, if we cut off the labia of women that would also reduce yeast infections. We don’t do it. If we cut off the lips on your face you would also never get cold sores.
The fact is that the foreskin is a useful and necessary part of the reproductive organ that protects the most sensitive area from damage. Amputating the foreskin because you “might” have an infection or you “might” not be keeping it clean is like cutting off your foot because you “might” get athlete’s foot or you might stub your toe some day.
Add to this the FACT that the babies get no anesthetic and the procedure is terribly painful and traumatic.
Further, you need to go online and look at the results of botch circumcisions. Very few people know about botched circumcisions and even men don’t realize that the pain and discomfort they feel is from their circumcision.
http://www.circumstitions.com/Botched1.html
When I first looked at this site I didn’t even know that my circumcision was botched. I knew that I had pain and that when I exercised I had discomfort and abrasion on the head of my penis. I had no idea it was from being circumcised. Most men don’t know this either. We aren’t allowed to know these things because male pain is expected. Only female pain is wrong.
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About 100 babies die each year in the US from botched circumcisions. Is it worth it?
Really, cause I was circumsized as a baby and I don’t remember squat, maybe I cried for a few seconds, maybe I didn’t.
You don’t have to remember a traumatic event to be scarred by it.
Sex is still extremely pleasurable for me, I have no trouble with sensitivity, and it’s already difficult to last as long as I’d like, I don’t think a little bit of extra sensation is going kill me.
Congratulations. However, you have no baseline to compare your “pleasure” to. At any rate, you could just as easily been circumcised at twelve. Why would you advocate forcing this procedure on everyone just because it turned out OK for you?
That’s like saying everyone should smoke crack because you didn’t get addicted. It’s solipsistic.
I have had no emotional scares from being circumsized.
You have no idea how different you might have been had you not be circumcised. The point isn’t about what might or might be. It’s about choice. I didn’t get a choice and I have to pay the price for it. I wouldn’t force that on anyone. Why would you?
Botched circumcisions happen like something bad happens with every other type of medical procedure in the book. I agree, it’s horrible and I’m sorry that it happened to you, but circumcission is one of the safest procedures if done by a medical professional. This isn’t to take away from people that have had the procedure go wrong, but generally this doesn’t happen.
Show me your data on this? I know of no studies on the rate of botched circumcisions. Most botched circumcisions go undiagnosed or are so permanent that doctors cannot fix the problem. In fact, it is rarely discussed even by doctors. What I do know is that if male infants weren’t circumcised there wouldn’t be any botched circumcisions at all.
Again, I’m sorry that our opinions don’t line up, but such is life.
Me too. Hopefully you’ll never be in a position of power to decide for everyone else.
@Denis
You’re right, all that money and affort…….and only 100 dead boys to show for it….surely there are more productive ways of killing men.
Hey, why not just chop the whole cock off baby boys. Since they will never know what they are missing….that means it doesn’t matter right?
Suppose we could apply the same mentality to any body part.
Guys… I posted the same comment above, so I’m sorry if this comes of as spam. I just want it to be seen.
Please help me with downloading that hateful video before it magically disappears.
@ Neely,
Thank you for your answers, although I have to point out that none of them were a response to the question I asked you. I did not infer romantic intent in your piece as much as entitlement. So be it, but you didn’t really answer.
This frankly, leaves me with two possibilities. One, that you are dishonest. I tend to think that is not the case here, which leaves me with the other. You are unconscious. All the signs point in that direction.
For instance, based on this limited contact, I know I could ask you about your statement, as follows:
I could ask you why on earth in this day and age do you feel entitled to a sexually designated doorman? I could ask you to examine the privilege and entitlement reflected in this kind of statement. I could ask you what makes women deserve to be the first ones off the elevator while the men wait?
I don’t think you would answer a single question honestly. Not because I think you to be a liar, but because I don’t think you could handle the cognitive dissonance. I don’t think you could cope with facing the idea that your “love: of this stuff is not only antiquated, but sexist and elitist. I think that facing all these questions, honesty and directly, would put you at odds with your self image, and that your self image will win that fight.
So I think you would do what you have done here, which is to waltz around every question with obfuscations about your boyfriend and new love.
Your appearance here rated a “C-” in my grade book. I think your heart is in the right place on one level, but on another your sense of entitlement is so entrenched it forces you to abandon reason and introspection whenever your ideas are held to scrutiny.
And when your reason and introspection go on vacation, any self assessment you make about your expectations of men is useless.
I hope you come back to your list in a few years, as you have had some time to mature and learn some more. Perhaps then you will see it for what it is, and then write something meaningful and truly loving about yourself, and about men.
We (women) are stuck in the middle between the fairy tale fantasies and romantic notions we were raised with to women’s equal rights and all this crap the feminists are dishing out. The elevator thing is almost a quaint reminder of another time, an old-fashioned gesture which is slowly dying. Women cannot demand change and more power without expecting the men to do likewise. I, for one, am pissed about it. They should have left it alone. I think the world was a better place and most certainly the family was a happier one in my parent’s time. Just sayin….
I agree with you. Oh, that I had the power to squeeze toothpaste back in the tube.
And the damned thing is, it would not require women to give up rights. We could have a fair society without exclusions. All we have to do is turn back that hands of time and abort every feminist fetus.
Not sure I would ever want to put that toothpaste back in the tube.
Now that I know what (most) women think of men, I think all men should have been MGTOW long ago. Bearing the brunt of all suffering, pain, and death in return for recognition and/or respect holds little attraction to me now.
The sooner men are individually and collectively free from all responsibility and duty towards women, the better.
One day I might thank the hate mongers like Marcotte and Futrelle for making this difficult choice so much easier to make.
I am hard pressed to disagree with you on that. The old way clearly worked better for children, including the ones who looked like adults.
I think one of the biggest mistakes was letting lesbians take leading positions in feminism. The outcome were given as soon as that happened. Noone gives the opposition in a competition over the same thing a head start, and they have managed to completely cripple us in the process, by catering to womens childish fantasyworld of relationships, along with the enforcement of an unjust brand of equality.
I used to like being old-fashioned in my gestures towards women, but when it became a demand, I wouldn’t do it even if I was beaten up with a baseball bat.Today, I wouldn’t do it if you held a gun to my head. And if I did, I would probably be shamed and scolded for it.
Yes, the impact of the lesbian separatists–>radfems cannot be over appreciated.
The thing is our culture was changing anyway. Feminism just hijacked us all and took credit for things that they had no part in improving such as the science and technological advancements that have changed our existence so drastically and rapidly.
I believe without feminism, women (and men for that matter) could have in fact ‘had it all’ so to speak or a hell of a lot closer than where feminism has taken them / us. In allowing feminazism to forsake men and boys for your supposed benefit, women have ultimately sacrificed themselves in the long run. Us & them was was never a good idea but it was a feminist idea and they are clinging to it. When entire populations of grass eaters and MGTOW have women and enablers shrieking and eventually perishing you should take it up with you feminazi slave masters.
I couldn’t get my dog to take a Red Pill. The vet suggested I wrap it in a piece of meat or cheese. Still no go. Eventually I just had to jam it down her throat with my finger. It was harsh, but there was no other way.
While not my preferred route of administration, I believe pharmaceuticals delivered via enema enter the bloodstream more quickly.
Red Pill Enema?
http://bit.ly/wiNkJn
My goodness woman !
You are a filthy grubby depraved thing aren’t you hhmm ?
Nope, just a pragmatist
@ Dr. T
Good answer, I have no smart ass comeback I’m afraid.
Parm’ me, Ma’am, I’ve heard it called a lot of things – a bung-hole, for instance …
This is the first time I’ve heard it called a “prag.”
(Just for a laugh, mind you. God how I needed that laugh.)
I have contacted the company who produces “Fleet” and we have entered negotiations for a product called “Red Nozzle”
Perhaps Ms. Steinberg would be interested in the clinical trial?
Perfect.
There’s a line from Woody Allen’s Manhattan Murder Mystery in which he quips, “There’s nothing wrong with you that can’t be cured with a little Prozac and a polo mallet.”
Just replace Prozac with Red Pill.
Cool.
Dr.T is a Woody Allen fan.
Now I just got to find a video from Monty Python where they make fun of him, or something he’s done.
I’ll bet there is one somewhere.
@Dr.T:
Found you this one. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T70-HTlKRXo
Might not be in the surroundings he usually does it in, but it sure has a lot of ‘Woody’ in it.
I reckon you’re just kinky
Good thing it wasn’t a suppository.
I managed to download episode 11:
Who is Lorena Bobbit and Catherine Becker and what do they have in common? Nic and Neely has the 9 reasons to never cut off your partner’s penis.
If anyone requires it just tell me how to upload a 50MG file to you and you can have it. It may disappear. As it has on You Tube and Keep Vid.
Good on you. I’ve been trying but have had no luck.
How’d you do it ?
If you can’t find any software that downloads the videos directly, then I suggest that you work around that and record your own desktop instead. That’s what I did.
Camtasia Studio works quite well.
Flashgot plugin in Mozilla
http://flashgot.net/
Poester99 this is great ta. I use Mozilla only.
Ok Ta VV.
A blokey lateral thinking work-around.
My god listen to me will you, I’m sounding like a sexist missygiony.. I mean a mysoggee.. a mi… aww fuggit, you know what I mean.
First I downloaded the below file
http://www.internetdownloadmanager.com/
Then I went to the website with the video on it using this link.
http://cdn.livestream.com/embed/thepulsenetwork?layout=4&clip=pla_3f0789af-2e56-4198-a800-83e97ee5fbc2&height=640&width=385&autoPlay=false&mute=false
I then clicked anywhere in the video window and in the bottom left hand corner an icon came up that said
Download video from this page. Click the green arrow and away you go.
See below:
http://i.imgur.com/TB9jq.jpg
Thank you Scatters, much appreciated.
There’s more than a few times I have wondered about how to do this as opposed to the narrow choices available through The Youtube Downloader.
Anytime my friend.
ok have seen the video and its exactly the same as the Osborne and the other skanks on The View. Shame on you Neely , you disgust me, like , totally!
Jaksta is very good.
Jaksta, thanks brother.
Did you get both parts?
There’s a second part to the right in the relevant video section. It’s from the same episode. They list the nine reasons in that one while they just giggle and talk about Lorena Bobbit, etc. in the first one.
Yeah, the one in the upper right corner is the one I mentioned, scatmaster.
I clicked the right arrow not the segment link.
I downloaded all of Episode 9. Was there something I was missing?
If you google ‘hjsplit’ you get a tiny utility that splits files into emailable sizes and then can be reconstructed from the receivers end.
Please hang on to it. Will be in contact. Thanks!
Will do. As I mentioned it is a 50MG file.
http://www.mediafire.com/?s0ms1e327nfbfwy
Uploaded to Media Fire. It is a free account so may take awhile to download to your PC or Mac if you don’t have a paid account.
neelysteinberg in reply to Tawil
Interesting post. Joseph Campbell has a great quote that I have tried to live my life by: “Follow your bliss.”
Curious: Do you think men aren’t all that interested in chivalry or romance anymore (or maybe they never were)? Do they feel that since men and women are now seen as equals chivalry and romance only exist to feed a woman’s ego?
I think it’s a sad day when romance is gone. Maybe that’s what we’ve come to. I guess it depends, though, on how you define romance. I think men and women can romance each other, but I’ve heard men say that they show love and affection more by doing (as opposed to showing through talking, emoting). Obviously generalizing. Thoughts?
Exactly as it should be. Equality is as..etc. Chivalry benefits ONLY women, supposedly as patriarchy benefited only men. They are different cheeks of the same ass. Feminists want to kill patriarchy, but keep the pedestal and chivalry. Methinks FRICKIN’ Not. You want to be sad about that. Hell, I’m sad about what feminists are doing to the patriarchy, but cry me no tears, and I will do the same for you. I, personally, refuse to allow women to have their cake and eat it too.
Fuck.
I’ve come to this discussion late, and as I read through it I was becoming cautiously optimistic about Steinberg, just as I’ve been cautiously optimistic that the Good Man Project was trying to reinvent itself since the whole Twitter furore thing. But this…
She can’t even tell the difference between a song that sends up male stereotypes (which, incidentally, is taking the piss out of a hit song celebrating female entitlement) and laughing at actual real disfiguring violence actually inflicted against a real human being.
It’s never been more clear that the Good Man Project is a false flag operation, and Steinberg is one of those women we’ve all known who suckers you into opening up with fake empathy before sticking the knife in where she now knows it’ll hurt the worst, just for kicks.
Fuck you, Neely Steinberg.
I was there at the beginning. After reading some of Ms Steinberg’s articles, it was clear that she is at odds with some of the man-hating excesses of feminism. I thought it would be worth our while to probe her further. Even allowing for the difficulty of confronting so much outraged opposition, I am disappointed. Ms Steinberg may have sucked the coating off the red pill with, but certainly hasn’t swallowed.
A few words about the wishlist. I instantly dismissed it as entirely predictible. Take some advice from a gay man who has endured decades of women droning painfully on about Love and Relationships. Women are incapable of love – not as you and I understand it. For women, love is just a means to secure an easy life. It’s a trade-off for which they, and all their tattered baggage, are The Prize. They think they have men pegged out, yet they don’t have a clue.
I no longer pity the lonely spinsters of my aquaintance. They don’t ‘get it’ and never will. Giving does not begin and end with opening your legs. They look enviously at my happy 14-year relationship and demand to know my secret. I don’t have any secrets. All I know is that being in a relationship does not entitle me to a damn thing from that person – and my partner believes exactly the same thing. Everything you receive from them is a gift. Easy.
Ms Steinberg imbued her wishlist with a breathless schoolgirl quality which, combined with her heavily airbrushed gravatar, made me think she was barely out of her teens.
She’s 34.
She is also revealed as laughing publicly at the genital mutilation of men. Her apology is undermined by declaring our outrage as purse-lipped PC humourlessness. I think Dr Elam is correct in surmising that Ms Steinberg is a plausable individual who is beginning to question feminist hypocricy, but who has yet to fully grasp the extent of the radfem horror so apparent to AVFM commenters.
Tom Snark issued a warning to me and Mr Primal not to get our hopes up about Ms Steinberg. He was entirely correct. He is now vindicated as a sage and experienced MRA. It certainly makes me appreciate the clear-eyed committment of Ms GirlWritesWhat, Dr Palmetier and our Izzey all the more. Ms Steinberg is a pale immitation of these blazing lights.
Shit andybob, as Jade eloquently put it, I think I love you, man.
“All I know is that being in a relationship does not entitle me to a damn thing from that person – and my partner believes exactly the same thing. Everything you receive from them is a gift. Easy.”
Oh damn, is that the sound of the bitch rag industry imploding in obsolescence?
You are donned, Sage.
Thanks Mr Perseus, and a Happy New Year to you.
Do you know who understands love in its purest sense? Izzey. Go to her blog and read her poems. Direct and unsentimental. It takes a lot to move a cynic like me, but Izzey’s best tears me up – damn it!
Why is it so difficult for women to grasp that mutilating men isn’t funny? We shouldn’t have to explain it to them. They should just know – even Jeffrey Dahmer knew that mutilating humans was wrong. Even if Ms Steinberg had been a moronic sophomore caught up in some infantile fun-fem frenzy, there should still have been some moment of reflection. In typical style. this didn’t happen. She was none the wiser until an MRA ‘explained’ it to her. Pathetic.
Ms Steinberg wants to understand why we are here. She should start by trying to comprehend that her raucous response to Catherine Becker’s crime was echoed in the mainstream media until the cackling became deafening. Celebrating blood-thirsty crimes is unacceptable. She needs to understand that we are weary of explaining that to women.
The wishlist will come back to haunt Ms Steinberg. All of my lonely spinster aquaintances had them too. Some still have them…lining the kitty litter.
Happy 2012 to you, my friend.
I look out at the world through your eyes, and it is fascinating. The liberation is incredible. Stu is not fucking around when he calls you lucky. I’m digging down deep to see if I can find some gay inside me
Anything to get free from the bankruptcy of the vaginas.
Mr Andrew Roberts I am here to unroll a papyrus scroll and deliver unto you this:
Every one of your posts I read slowly because I go in telling myself I am going to really enjoy this one and it so happens I do.
This bit, “Some still have them…lining the kitty litter.” I mean where the hell did that cricket ball come from ?
I’m starting to think that you actually make this stuff up or something.
Now before you reach for those rubber glasses used for emergency head expansion, I am coming to a point here and it comes with a caveat.
Write a damned article you mean spirited selfish bastard.
I mean look at you, you come here and spray your sublime and silky text and and exit left while the rest of us here are dazzled by the iridescence you leave in the atmos.
Wassa matter with you mate, you some kind of a sado ? Now you know we know you know we’re a discerning lot, yet and at the same time you love watching us gobble your gossamer with wooden spoons that clack about with the frenetic blur of a scene from “Koyaanisqatsi.”
You see, you’re time has come. Your card has been punched and while I’m at it the bell has rung.
It’s time for an article.
The caveat is nags, yes nags. No not horses, people nags… from myself to be sure.
Now that we all know you know we think you’re a come hither go there bounder, it’s really only a matter of time before an article is produced by you.
That’s right. You no submit article = me do nag post once a week.
So the gauntlet is down and the curtain is up, and actually, I’m very interested in what you think of my caveat/nag/article/proposal thingy.
See, I can’t even put it into words properly as I’m just so jolly cross and bothered about all this business with me and the scroll and everything. It’s not my style but someone had to do it.
Bah !
P.S.
I’m going to repost this on a fresher article in case you miss it.
@ Dr. F
Wow Dr. F, you captured my thoughts exactly on this one. I was trying to think how to convince andybob to write, you’ve done it just right.
@Dr.F. & Andybob:
“Every one of your posts I read slowly because I go in telling myself I am going to really enjoy this one and it so happens I do.”
LOL! Funny. I do the exact same thing.
“Write a damned article you mean spirited selfish bastard.”
100% agreement from here.
“That’s right. You no submit article = me do nag post once a week.”
Consider that 3 nag posts a week, so you might as well get to it because I never forget a promise. I CAN make your life a living hell, Sir.
That’s right Perseus, he’s not getting away with it.
Oh he can run and hide here and there on a staler post. Why he can even change his moniker and grav but we’ll crowbar him out.
You hear that so called Mr Andrew Roberts ?
Also Perseus, the nags will start as a gentle word and grow meaner and meaner.
Pretty soon if this bounder still hasn’t delivered then the nags will be so viperous and exacting with swear words that googling his name will have your monitor sweating beads.
Prob’ly.
You made up for lost time brilliantly, Sir. The cavalry arrived blazing.
Dude,same thing here. I didn’t read the part about how she laughed at Becker’s husband before I responded to her.I was thinking,damn, the boys are giving her a little bit of a rough time, she might not be all that bad-then BOOM- the whole fucking sham fell apart as I scrolled.
I need to get a Red Pill refill or something, I keep getting suckered in.
You guys are on the fucking ball. And let me tell you, I don’t accept her fake-ass apology. I’ll think about it if she starts a shelter for battered or homeless men and/or donates to male friendly causes for the next 20 years or so, but that killed it for me.
Laughing about a man having his dick cut off and ground up in a machine for disposing of refuse…Jesus Fucking Christ.What the fuck is wrong with you,Neely?
Even if you did nothing else questionable in your whole life, that one act was enough to justify everything everyone here said about you,and perhaps more.
“One thing is for sure. When something heavy needs lifting, Neely will be too busy watching the shape of your back to be getting on the other end and helping.”
Very astute.
Here’s another perspective on the dichotomy of masculist/feminist perceptions regarding WORK.
Masculist perspective:
And on the 8th day man invented tools,
- to free himself from the drudgery of hard physical labor and advance civilization.
Feminist perspective:
And on the 8th day man invented tools,
- to oppress, and enslave womankind with merely “tricksy” variations on all the work traditionally performed by women.
Wow…that was a gripping comment thread – and a slow-motion car crash from Steinberg’s point of view. I watched her video and it was as stomach churning as expected. I wonder if it would have been so amusing if her father/brother/son/boyfriend was the victim? I can’t understand how that sort of thing can be even vaguely amusing to anyone with genuine empathy; very weird.
Funny how the modern man-hater’s soapbox of choice, the web, has actually become their sword of Damocles. I wonder how many of them are scurrying around like cockroaches, desperately trying to delete ‘anonymous’ forum postings and videos? Pathetic bunch.
Neely–” It has nothing to do with viewing men as subservient in any way.”
That may not have been your intent, but clearly most of your items involved loving a man for the way he serves you.
Neely “I also have to wonder: Do men not enjoy making women happy? Does it not feed something inside of them?
One might ask that same question of you. Not once did you mention in your list how you love serving him. Perhaps you should qualify that question about yourself before you ask it in others.
That said, yes, I derive a great deal of pleasure and good feelings from giving something to a woman. Fixing her car, listening to her problems, or driving her to the hospital and waiting for her while she’s in surgery. The operative word here is “give”. However, most of the time women “expect” these things and still others are compulsory thanks to feminist inspired laws for which there is no female equivalent. A man can’t “give” something if it is taken from him. If he is not allowed to give it freely or to freely withhold it then it is not a gift.
Neely: “I could say the same for women: that we enjoy giving a man we are in love with sexual pleasure before our own, because it makes a man happy and feel good, and to see that makes us happy. That’s just one example.”
That’s one way of looking at it. However sex is a commodity that women often trade to get something else. The absence of the female orgasm is a small price to pay when you can get a man to pay your rent, take you shopping, make a car payment, etc. I’m sure you think you make love to your man because you genuinely love him and want to show him your affection and trust for him. But at the same time hasn’t there also been times you wanted him to do something that you thought he might resist or maybe you did something that he might be angry about and you had sex with him to get what you wanted? Maybe that isn’t you but I guarantee you many men here have fallen for this and it has cost us dearly.
Occasionally, women accuse us of being misogynists. However, if a man falls for this “love con” and is deeply hurt by it then why shouldn’t we learn to hate or distrust women?
Neely: “Re: a commenter upbraiding me for giving thanks to men who serve this country to protect us all. I was flat-out flabbergasted. I have been a strong supporter of the military (currently, and rightfully so, a volunteer profession). I’ve given money to different charities – Veterans of Foreign Wars, Homes for Troops, etc. Was I being upbraided for being a woman and saying that?”
No. This statement is a red herring. Nowhere in your list were there words of thanks for military service. Your list was about romantic love and you said, “I love” a man in military service. To us that is like dangling a carrot before a horse because it makes military service a condition of receiving love. It says to young men that if you want a woman to love you you must be disposable; you must suffer the horrors of war to be worthy of love.
At once you promote male disposability and perpetuate a culture that condones war, violence towards men, and the expenditure of male lives while at the same time being able to deny that women ever promote war or male disposability or violence committed on your behalf.
Neely:“My coming here was not an example of being coy or manipulative. Hogwash.”
I don’t think you possess the introspective skill to make an honest statement about your intentions of coming here. I do however notice a change in the tone of your words since you’ve arrived. Clearly you’ve learned quickly that the snarky anti-male tone that is tolerated on GMP will not be tolerated here. Is this change “manipulative”? No more so than a chameleon changing its color. Perhaps the better word is “adaptation”. When you return to GMP you will change back.
Neely:“It was simply to set the record straight, to show that there are reasonable women out there who appreciate and love men (not for their utility to women), and see major flaws with feminist doctrine.”
I haven’t read all your articles so I can’t judge the sincerity of this statement. I do however detect a general lack of understanding of the male condition as you continue to blunder around the issues. I liken it to the 1970′s when whites were still calling blacks, “boys” and “colored” and being surprised to find that these were offensive terms.
I’ll give you points for at least trying.
BTW, you may have missed the question that I asked or maybe I haven’t found the answer yet. Could you list some obligations that women have towards men that they cannot get out of doing?
tx
“Could you list some obligations that women have towards men that they cannot get out of doing? ”
Answer: knitting the shroud, for after the guillotine.
Neely:“If men have viewed and currently view marriage as a burden, shouldn’t they be thankful to feminism? “
This is the kind of deliberate mischaracterization and “twisting” that belies your more diplomatic posts.
What men find burdensome about marriage is that we are blamed for everything. No one ever says that a marriage failed because the wife didn’t make enough money, give enough support, or that she was an abusive harridan who emptied the checking accounts and made babies by other men. It’s ALWAYS MEN’S FAULT. Further, what is burdensome is the reduced property rights, limited parental rights, and diminished legal rights and NON-EXISTENT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS of men who must endure the divorce industry created by feminists.
Neely:“From what I see, feminism has created a veritable sexual playground for men, no? It is now also socially acceptable for men to not marry, or to be single longer. “
Just because men aren’t married doesn’t mean they’ve also escaped the burdens of marriage. Child support laws guarantee any woman who wants to make a baby and does it dishonestly will be guaranteed a portion of a man’s income for at least 20 years. Even women who rape boys can get child support with that child finally turns 18. That might seem like a playground to you but it sure isn’t for us. Add to this the fact that male birth control is still 100 years behind that of female b/c and the fact that males do not get equal parental rights unless they can afford to fight tooth and nail in court or the mother deigns to allow him equal access. What part of all this is a playground? And while we are telling the truth we both know that women are still pursuing and having sex with the same “alpha male” types they’ve always wanted. Men who aren’t good looking, socially skilled, or who are underemployed are living in a sexual wasteland and female competition for education and employment resources means they will continue to be shut of this so-called “playground”.
Neely:“I do believe, though, that feminism and sexual libertinism has contributed to the breakdown of the family, and I see this as a real negative (for both men and women), especially for lower socioeconomic classes.”
To be clear here, the destruction of the family is a stated goal of feminism. Sexual “libertinism” is merely one of the tools to achieve that.
@neelysteinberg
You said:
“Marcotte was raped; another feminist I know was abandoned by her father when she was young – this makes it easier (but not necessarily right) to understand this anger.”
Is it a proven fact that she was raped? By that I mean is there a police file or some other documentation that can be examined to verify her claim? If not, then perhaps you shouldn’t definitively say that she was raped.
I was raped by a woman, by the way. I didn’t even know it was rape at the time thanks to being indoctrinated into thinking that rape was something only men could do and all the evidence of the crime was long gone by the time I learned otherwise, plus the perpetrator was living in another country. I’ve never felt the need to engage in the kind of bigotry towards the sex of my attacker that Marcotte engages in towards men, so ever if her claim is true it doesn’t make it easier to understand her anger towards men; not one iota.
If a woman felt like at some point in her life she was coerced into having sex when she didn’t feel like it, then yes Marcotte by feminist definition was raped.
@keyster
If I were a new visitor to this site looking for MRA quotes, I could easily write “MRA’s accept new rape definition” after reading this comment, even though this was clearly not your meaning.
MRA’s sometimes seem to endorse feminist doctrine through their own sarcastic verbiage, so I thought I might just sound a warning here. I hope this doesn’t offend.
Here it is:
The newsroom
http://tpn.thepulsenetwork.com/lifestyle/the-dating-pulse-with-nic-and-neely/07-20-11-nic-and-neelys-newsroom/
9 reasons to never cut off your husbands penis
http://tpn.thepulsenetwork.com/lifestyle/the-dating-pulse-with-nic-and-neely/07-20-11-the-9-with-nic-and-neely/
Both uploaded to media fire for your use.
http://www.mediafire.com/?0lid4c09tz11o6u
http://www.mediafire.com/?s0ms1e327nfbfwy
What makes that 9 reasons hateful is that the nine reasons not to do it are because of the consequences to the woman and there is no mention that it is wrong to cruelly torture and mutilate another human being.
And BTW Neely it’s not even acceptable to mutilate a man’s genitals for attempted rape or even rape. That’s just fucking stupid.
Jean,
From ‘self-defense’ on Wikipedia, I get the feeling that one can justify any kind of bodily harm in the case of attempted rape.
The use of the right of self-defense as a legal justification for the use of force in times of danger is available in many jurisdictions, but the interpretation varies widely. To be acquitted of any kind of physical harm-related crime (such as assault and battery and homicide) using the self-defense justification, one must prove legal provocation, meaning that one must prove that he was in a position in which not using self-defense would most likely lead to death or serious injuries. The threat of damage or loss of property alone is not enough
So, Neelers, I guess mutilation of female genitals is purrrfectly ok when a teen age boy is being raped by an older woman? Allow me the use of excessive verbage. Both you and sharon osbourne should have a rat forced inside of you then be sewn up. There is no excuse for what I just saw, no apology is acceptable. You are a disgusting, low life, miserable, meat-bag. Please, just exit the planet.
Well done Scatters. Well done mate.
Regarding the “9 reasons”: These. Two.Bithces.Are.Fucking…retarded.
Actually , that whole thing smakced of sarcasm and mockery so excuse me: These two CUNTS are fucking retarded.
Hope Miss Steinberg and her Agent don’t mind, but I’ve decided to adapt a portion of that List of things she loves about men:
I love when a woman pushes a strand of her hair away from her face, tucking it obsessively behind her ear, when she’s been confronted by one of her fibs.
I love when a woman puts her hand on the wrong end of the telescope and says she ‘still can’t see the point’ that her man is trying to make.
I love how millions of women doctors go off work at 3:30 to drive to Day Care, while hundreds of patients suffer irreparable harm in their absence.
I love when a woman allows a man to contribute to charity “as long as it doesn’t conflict with the Pink Ribbon.”
I love when a man waits patiently inside an emptying elevator to let the cloud of perfume salted with estrogen escape.
I love how a man would go to the ends of the earth to return all his wife’s ill-advised purchases.
I love how a woman will rub peanut butter into her partner’s priceless, autographed NFL jersey, if he has just told her to lose weight.
I love the men who so bravely and willingly risk their lives telling the truth to their mother-in-laws.
I love being our Little Unattached Male.
I love the way a woman runs into Bloomingdale’s like a maniac.
I love the shape of a man’s big, strong back when he’s walking away from it all.
I love when a man knows what to say and what not to say to make a woman calm down and just remain silent for a second.
Guffaw ! This is great
“I love when a woman pushes a strand of her hair away from her face, tucking it obsessively behind her ear, when she’s been confronted by one of her fibs.”
Now that got me going but when I got to this one:
“I love how a woman will rub peanut butter into her partner’s priceless, autographed NFL jersey, if he has just told her to lose weight. ”
I really laughed. It has something very focused about it and that made it even funnier, unfortunately.
Was that one drawn from a memory bank Mr. Justicer ?
Thanks, Dr. F., it’s nice to see you got a laugh.
[EDIT] I just noticed your own work of art, ‘way above this post, and was very amused by it. Nicely done!
It’s all a mixture of memory bank and horrified, lifelong observation.
Ta
I am happy to report that none of my memory banks were used in my post there.
I swear that recruiters like Neely are like quibids.com. It’s a complete scam and can only go through the population once before the business model is dead (unless you’re a retard). Their business model cannot even get everyone because somebody they know has been scammed so I’d say once 2 in 5 men are scammed by the recruiters, everyone knows to stay away.
Say it ain’t so Whitney, quibids.com is a “scam”!!!
How will I ever get my $18.87 iPad?
Your lovely wife who respects and treats you like an equal will deliver it.
LOL
Reposting this at the bottom of the thread in case it gets buried.
I’ve written the text portion of Neely’s entry to register-her. I don’t have access to the videos though, nor can I create a pdf file, which is required. So, I’ve done most of the work here, anyone else who wants to can pick this up and add those couple of bits and pieces. Here you go:
In an episode of ‘Nic and Neely’ entitled ‘Nic and Neely’s Newsroom: The Catherine Becker Case,’ Neely Steinberg and co-host Nicole Johnson can be witnessed laughing openly at a man who was drugged, tied up and sexually mutilated by his wife, Catherine Kieu Becker, because he asked for a divorce.
A subsequent episode, entitled ’9 Reasons To Never Cut Off Your Man’s Penis,’ suggests that women should not commit this crime, although the nine reasons given all have to do with what would be best for women – i.e. they might get arrested, it might impact upon their careers, or the man might end up getting famous (as did John Bobbit), which is not the desired outcome. Nowhere is the humanity, dignity or bodily integrity of men suggested as a reason for not mutilating men. It can be inferred that, if women did not fear reprisals in the form of legal punishment or professional sanctions, there would be no reason not to genitally mutilate men, in the opinions of the hosts.
Another episode of ‘Nic and Neely’ deals with circumcision. While the hosts take an ultra-serious tone regarding female genital mutilation, declaring it wrong in all cases, male genital mutilation is treated lightly; the hosts make a lot of fun of newborn baby boys’ genitals being mutilated, adding a ‘fun’ visual. The conclusion of the piece is that while FGM is a serious matter and strictly wrong, MGM is something that is funny and should be supported.
More recently, Neely Steinberg posted an article to the Good Men Project, in which she listed twenty things she loves about men. You would be forgiven, initially, for thinking that her list shows genuine and sincere appreciation and affection for men. On closer inspection, however, nearly every item on the list involves what men do for her to make her feel loved, or to make her life easier. Nowhere does she suggest an appreciation for men as they are, only for what they can do for her. Apparently, to be worthy of Neely Steinberg’s love, a man must be servile (rubbing her feet when he is more exhausted then she is), chivalrous (ladies first), and accepting of his subordinate role (working in a sewer or as cannon fodder).
Much like the episode of ‘Nic and Neely’ entitled ’9 Reasons To Never Cut Off Your Man’s Penis,’ this list makes it clear that men are valued purely according to their utility to women. The suggestion that men may possess positive qualities besides those which benefit women is not apparent anywhere.
As childish as the list is, it is not the reason why Neely Steinberg is listed on register-her.com. The reason why she appears on here is the aforementioned videos, in which she apparently believes it acceptable to publicly belittle a man who has just been mutilated for life, and has had the very core of his masculinity, his future sex life, his health and well being, including psychological, all stolen from him in the most violent and grotesque way imaginable.
The list of twenty reasons why she (ostensibly) loves men merely gives us insight into the way she views men. This issue was raised by Paul Elam at A Voice for Men, and Neely herself showed up in the comments section to defend her views. Although willing to apologise for the offence caused by giggling over the thought of men being mutilated, she did not appear to grasp the reason why this might be considered offensive by men; going so far as to suggest that the problem actually lies with men for being horrified at a brutal sexual mutilation. It seems clear that whatever ‘love’ Neely believes she has for men is not easily recognisable as ‘love’ in any genuine sense of the word.
“We’re going to chat about it later and have a few laughs. Totally barbaric, but funny nonetheless.”
- Neely Steinberg on male genital mutilation
Tom.
Done, where do I email it to ? Here’s my email
mra.effdoff@gmail.com
Thank you Dr. Snark. I will work with JTO on getting the rest of the info and posting it.
Also, good to see your incisive pen at work here again.
Maybe the third time is a charm.
Both uploaded to media fire for your use.
http://www.mediafire.com/?0lid4c09tz11o6u
http://www.mediafire.com/?s0ms1e327nfbfwy
will someone in charge let me know if these are usable for our purposes or am I wasting my time repeatedly posting these links for people who say they do not have them. Oh, and no Snark intended. Just asking that is all. Hell, I will post them everyday for the rest of my life if required just need to know.
Thanks to everyone here (who were wiser than I was) for showing us all how to detect impostors, to pull up the history, and to get the job done.
This is the longest thread, ever, on AVfM. It is not because Neely Steinberg is interesting or important. What she did do, however, was to kind of create the perfect storm for an intense discussion of male utility and disposability, the core of which, of course, is the root of all our problems.
A secondary benefit was the gravy provided when we see that at the very heart, those who see men in terms of utility also betray an utter lack of sensitivity or empathy regarding their lives and problems.
Neely has 20 things she loves about men, but at the end of the day when one of us is sexually disfigured, its a hoot for her. All the articles she could write in a lifetime about the wrong headedness of people like Marcotte and Schwyzer will not change the fact that she is much more like them than us.
She is just in competition with them for our loyalty; a loyalty she no less takes for granted than the worst of them.
I would like to say that I wasn’t fooled but I did have some doubts when others took her at face value. That has to do with me I suspect but in the back of my mind I didn’t believe her and I think the red pill may have finally come to full effect. I still did not have the confidence to speak out about my suspicions but I am getting there. Oh, by the way I ingested my red pill orally.
I presumed she was simply coming from a position of ignorance. I too had my ass handed to me when I first started posting on a MRM site. I thought they were being hateful jerks until I had a few conversations about it with my sons. My sons weren’t harsh or angry with me, but opened the door a tiny crack to allow a small glimpse into the part of their lives I was completely oblivious to.
I was gob smacked by what little I knew about men, men’s lives, and men’s perspectives even though my entire life I have lived with men and raised sons. I thought I knew every aspect of their lives only to find I knew nothing.
I thought Neeley, coming from a place of respect and love, would be making this discovery as well, and was beginning to wonder why it was taking her so long.
I see now she was coming from a place of mockery, disrespect and scorn. She’s all tra -la-la with a new love for now, but as it’s been pointed out, that will revert back to disrespect, mockery and scorn once the new wears off.
You may not believe this, even now it’s not so much women’s voices that are STILL being heard, but men’s.
Men voices silently telling women “You don’t need to see, hear, or feel the harsh realities of life. I will shield and protect you from them”. You don’t need to be responsible for keeping the peace, fighting the wars, mopping up the blood. I will shield and protect you from that”. “You do not need to break your back, work your life away, die painfully young with your body broken, your hopes wishes and dreams placed second to those you love and take responsibility for. That’s my burden to shoulder”.
“You can run and play, throw tantrums, accusations, lies and insults. Your appreciation and respect is not a requirement for my loyalty and protection. I’ll continue to be a man, be a sport, do the right and noble thing because that’s just what men do.”
I’ll have to find the source of that quote from a woman who also had such a glimpse into the male life. “I wouldn’t last 5 minutes”.
Fuck.
I need a tissue.
OneHundredPercentCotton you’re a bit of alright you are.
Your sons I am sure are very happy to be related to you broadly speaking.
She’ll go back into her echo chamber and write some more. This time it might be about how we attacked her and “threatened her with death” (pushing up daisies).
We seem to be on the same page about Neely, and it’s a damn shame if she chooses that option. She was given a fair warning by Paul from the start, when he mentioned ‘the roughest crowd around’, but chose to stay on anyway. That unfortunately led to a revealing of some rather nasty character traits when some of the guys started digging in her past, but none the less she still has an option left do redeem herself. A letter of apology on her GMP blog, and a total turn around in her men related articles from now on would bring her far in my book.
But as I mentioned in my entry to OHPC, most women prefer to live on in denial and ignorant bliss when the doorway to a man’s world has been opened to them, and I sadly suspect she’ll chose to do the same. It seems as much they don’t WANT to have a clue, as the fact that they don’t HAVE one.
It’s official, she’s won the coveted bingo jack pot “I’M A VICTIM! MEN ARE MEAN!” sainthood award.
Time to return to the fold and show off her newly minted wings.
@OHPC:
You may be between a handful of women I’ve met in my entire life, who actually seems to get it. I salute you. It, in itself, must be just as shocking an experience to women, as taking the red pill is for men.
My respect goes to you for still being here. Not many women choose to do so, once the door has been opened, and would rather live on in blissful denial and ignorance.
“I wouldn’t last 5 minutes”.
I think I used the exact same words in one of my countless attempts to convince td9red about all of the above, but you said it so infinitely much better. And very few women would. The chances for sugar and spice in a everyday mans life, are as slim as finding a rare gem in a box of serial, and mostly comes from watching the world through a happy wifes eyes, or in his childrens eyes. And most women are not happy nowadays, and the children grow up in a single parent household.
Quite obviously somebody needs to grow up, when 2/3 are suffering from the choices of 1/3. Choices that does not even seem to make that 1/3 happy.
@onehundredpercentcotton
This comment reflects the plain truth of the matter. This ain’t cotton, it’s gold.
This is the longest thread, ever, on AVfM. It is not because Neely Steinberg is interesting or important.
Ha HAAA ha-ha-ha-ha!
Ah Mr Merrick there you are.
You asked me “Frmki loop mikamika ?” recently and the answer is ‘yes’, or as said in my language quite simply as, “Elsarib vol toknowgian, sreet droot arl bingfloit alterstop magarving bloik bloik.”
Speaking of this being the longest thread ever. . . do you think we can get a counter for each post as well as a date and time it was posted? When threads get really long and there are lots of replies it gets really hard to keep your place in the conversation and eventually things get really muddled.
That said you are right on about Neely. She couldn’t help but show how selfish and bigoted she really is and all the while protesting that she loves men. When a woman is so out of touch with reality, when she lacks empathy and cannot see past her own privilege it’s really frustrating. But when I see this again and again with women it really makes me think the world if fucked up beyond repair.
I realize it is sometimes hard to move away from a long held believe, but when you look at the systemic inequities or our society and how they harm men; when a comparison is so lopsided it shouldn’t be so hard to budge just a little. This is why men go their own way. Women are simply unsuitable as life partners. Their sense of entitlement means they can never offer anything else other than sex and frankly even that isn’t worth the effort anymore.
Edit: After posting I saw that I’m not the only one who would like a few more features. That’s good.
OneHundredPercent, I really like your post above.
I have a request for those who run this website:
- Is it possible to date the various blog entries?
- Is it possible to time-stamp and date the various posts?
Since this isn’t a commercial news site, I can’t see the harm in admitting that someone wrote something a few days ago, or even weeks ago, and the benefits are considerable.
Especially since the reply buttons have created non-linear posting. When I come back to a page I cannot easily tell which posts are newer and which were there before I hit the refresh button.
BTW, the articles are dated in the byline at the top right.
thanks for that, Whitney. My elderly eyes report to me very unfaithfully.
Oh on that other issue, whether Neely should be allowed to post in here, we will all have taken various stands.
A staunch libertarian, I’d err on the side of openness. A bit of contrarian text is a good goad to clarity.
On the other hand, we can’t allow trolls to gum up the discussion, if the majority view them as trolls.
A troll being defined, roughly, as a poster who is a provocateur, and only that; who baits other posters into saying things they want to attack; and who deliberately avoids dealing with questions put to her– as Paul has pointed out.
Ms Steinberg is a lightweight and a flippant and condescending feminist (all tautologies). I’m not sure she was in here to be a provocateur; it’s her cemented-in feminism that renders her intellectually null. She has birth-related deficits (absence of Y chromosome; estrogenic intoxication; genetic avoidance urge) and might need a brain transplant. However, if she does become a real troll, just not answering her provocations would work best.
I agree.
She would have to put her money where her mouth is, when she claims interest in men’s issues. I don’t want to read or hear about them from a feminist standpoint.
I want the truth.
In my mind she was only asking for information to use as ammo later on. That’s what women do. They claim to care about your feelings and insist that you open up and when you do they judge you and throw a fit and if they don’t do it right away then some day down the road they’ll be pissed and out comes all your secrets in one big furious rant which includes dish throwing and “thing” breaking.
The reason men lie is because women make it unsafe to tell the truth. Women only want the “truth” if it’s what they want to hear.
I’d like some more people to keep pulling on this thread…that is trying to understand why Neely decided to jump into the lion’s den in the first place…and to stay in it so long. Her ‘courage’ is very curious. So is her willingness to get beaten on repeatedly without ever engaging sincerely. This kind of masochistic conduct is counterintuitive but she sure had SOME serious reasons for volunteering as the pin cushion here. Is ‘information to use as ammunition later on’ the only good assumption or are there are others that fit in the puzzle too?
Since there will be more like her in the future, I’d love to hear some more conjecture on her intentions. Of course, if she is still able to post here, SHE is welcome to tell us her true intentions directly but that isn’t likely given the loathsome little girl games she’s been playing so far.
I’ve spent too much of my life trying to understand wimminz’ ‘thinking’. Just judge them by what they do.
Same as tediousRed, this one ignores whatever she feels like. Ban ‘em both and ignore them ’til it happens.
If they were really worried about injustice to men, they’ve got enough evidence to be doing something about it for the rest of their lives. In fact they’re just playing little grrrrl games, masturbating themselves whilst wasting your time (not mine, I don’t bother with them).
My hat is off to the real women here, including Dr T, Izzey, Typhon, 100% etc. These two? Ban ‘em