No Way

Just say No? Are you crazy?

Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned ~ The Mourning Bride by William Congreve (1697)

Have you ever refused a woman’s sexual advances?

I’ve said no to women who were too old, too young, too drunk, too fat, too thin, too smelly, and even too needy. Quite often I’ve said no for no clear reason that I can identify other than something seemed off or I just wasn’t interested. Once I even drove a woman 40 minutes to her apartment at 2 AM fully intending to spend the night – and then I drove away because I suddenly felt ill at ease – and I woke up with the flu the next morning.

Saying “no” to a woman in any context is difficult to impossible for most men – we will literally die rather than fail to protect or service them. As Karen Straughan has pointed out, male politicians have catered to women’s needs and political demands long before women even got the vote – think Prohibition for example.

Medically, having regular sex with a woman pregnant with your child seems to reduce the odds of dangerous complications like pre-eclampsia – meaning that, if a man refuses sex with a woman who was, is, or will be pregnant with his child, his “selfishness” is putting both mother and child’s lives at risk.

Historically, a man who refused any of the needs of his babymomma was placing his children at risk, so evolution seems to select in favor of men who slavishly obey their womenfolk, particularly when it comes to sex-on-demand.

Nowadays, however, college men are learning that if you say “yes” to sex with a woman who has been drinking, you are raping her, but if you say “no”, your reputation, your education, your future livelihood, and even your life can be destroyed at the woman’s whim: You’re gay. You’re a rapist. You drugged me. You’ve got a tiny dick. You hate women. Shut up, you privileged abuser. True or not, these allegations are real, unilateral power that women wield against men, and men have little defense other than walking away.

In doing background research for this piece I read a lot of articles about the reasons a man might refuse to have sex with a willing or even demanding woman. I was not completely surprised that all the items I found referenced male sexual refusal only in the context of a long-term relationship.

The idea that one can discuss why a man might refuse the sexual overtures of a new female partner seems almost like a social taboo – few are willing to entertain the radical notion that, even as the AIDS era approaches the end of its third decade, some lunatic, pathetic, yet straight man might set aside his horndog ways and resist the desires of a horny, needy woman. One man commented “You have got to be kidding me […] If I EVER turn down sex it’s because I’m in a COMA!!!”

The other thing you too rarely see is how women react to a man’s sexual rejection.

Now, I’m no great prize as a man – I’m way too much of a geek and average-looking on my best day, but I do know how to keep my cool around women most of the time, and as I grow older and more distinguished looking, I do get unwanted offers and demands for sex on a regular basis from women I barely know.

My most memorable refusal was of course the most traumatic one and over twenty years ago. After working as a computer programmer on mathematical projects for many years I was assigned a technically incompetent woman as a manager. “Terri” (an alias, as are all the names in this article) had no grasp of mathematics or computers, but in a high-pressure work culture where honesty and clarity was essential to success she was a master at covering her ass to explain away her many screw-ups and project failures. She started hitting on me almost immediately -Terri claimed I reminded her of the ex-husband she still pined for, and instead of letting me do my job, she tried to enlist me as a partner-in-crime in her scamming and ass-covering games.

I was a hard-working, loyal employee and I was appalled at what she was doing to both me and the company. When I resisted her bullshit in favor of actually working, she cut off all my communications with my clients and other employees – if I had a technical question or needed a clarification, it had to go through her, and because she was a math idiot, I never got the answers I needed. I did get a ton of flirting and joking from a woman I increasingly couldn’t stand – after years my dream job had morphed into a nightmare in less than a month.

Finally, after another frustrating, unproductive day, Terri and I were the last ones left in the office, and she asked me out to dinner “to talk about things.” I refused; I kept my work and social life separate, and I told her that I found her disgusting and unprofessional.

The very next morning she called me into her office for a “surprise” performance review – the first and only negative review I ever received. I was hoping to get fired, but that would have marked Terri as a failed manager for losing an employee who was up to that point considered a hero to the company – I should note that this was in the early 1990’s when the idea of a man filing a sexual harassment claim was unthinkable (and in a lot of ways it still is).

I left the company shortly thereafter, and then in my new job (under a competent female boss, thank god) I started hiring away all the other male programmers working under Terri – to a man, they were happy to get out. Less than a month had passed when I started calling on the last and least experienced novice programmer they had left; they gave him an instant 20% salary boost and another manager (“Bob”) called me and asked me why I was damaging them like that. I told him the whole story; soon, Terri was blacklisted and permanently stripped of all her remaining employees.

Then, for good measure, I hired Bob away from them, too. The entire product line we had worked on was soon dead and their entire division was gone in less than a year later.

I now own my own (non-computer) business in a struggling, artsy-fartsy entertainment district in a major city. At over 8 years mine is one of the longest-surviving businesses still there. I am expected to be a friendly, public “face” for my customers and regulars and while I don’t mind this at all, I do get approached by a lot of women, many of them tipsy and half my age or less. It is not unusual at all for me to be kissed, hugged and even more aggressively approached 4-6  times an evening. Most of the time I can painlessly deflect them by saying things like “it was good to meet you” and “let me know if you need anything else” but at least six times in the last year things have gotten ugly.

The first woman I refused, “Angel”, mid-twenties, former cheerleader, unwed mom of two kids by two different dads, just wanted “to take me home and fool around”. I declined politely and she seemed to take it in stride, but I soon found out from other female friends that she was complaining that I must be gay because no man had ever turned her down before. One dear friend of mine took it upon herself to set Angel straight – “I’ve seen Auggie with several beautiful women and I also know from personal experience he is NOT gay.”

The second woman, “Beth”, also mid-twenties, said that she had a crush on me, and considering her girth, I believed her – she called me gay to my face when I refused to have sex with her 250 lb, nominally Christian ass (that had already been through her second abortion). My response to her was, “well, as it happens, I wasn’t gay until I met you.” At the time I thought this was a clever rejoinder, but on reflection I concluded it carries a subtext of homophobia that was not accurate in expressing my intent.

By the time the third woman, “Chris”, early thirties and quite fetching, called me gay I had perfected my response: “Although I love my gay brothers, I am only sexually attracted to women who aren’t homophobic bitches like you.” Although she was stunned into silence, Chris still hits on me from time to time and I tolerate it because she has a number of male orbiters she parades in front of me and I don’t need open physical conflict in my business, but those guys do purchase a lot of stuff.

As I was trying to play a game of pinball, the fourth woman, “Darla” immediately cuddled up to me like a wounded puppy and as if I was an old lover of hers. I asked her to let me finish my game and she stormed off into the ladies’ room. I asked the friend she was with what was going on and she said that Darla had just been released from a mental health facility – no big shock there.

I finished the game and went to grab a beer and watch a baseball game. As I sat on a tall barstool Darla came up beside me and grabbed my penis through the fabric of my pants. I resisted the strong urge to physically defend myself; luckily for me a zeta woman pal of mine noticed what was happening, pulled Darla’s hand off of me and scared her away. Crazy dick-grabbing Darla hasn’t been back.

The fifth woman, “Ellie”, with no introduction, walked up, grabbed my left nipple and twisted it hard while I was playing a video game. Now, a woman assaulted like that can scream and cry, but a man so doing that would be seen as a coward. Without saying a word, I turned slightly, locked eyes with her, and twisted my head sideways like a reptile readying to engage an aggressor. She released her grip and scampered away in terror. I barely shifted in my seat as I returned to the game.

And finally and most recently, the sixth woman “Fran” complained loudly that the jukebox had stolen her money, then rubbed her body against mine and asked me if I could “help her out.” I looked at her coldly and said, “Unfortunately for you, I am not under the purview of women.”  She teared up (ignored), then stuck out her tongue and made a raspberry noise (ignored), then flipped me off. I smiled slightly and said, “Try again once you grow up and get a job,” walked away, and then hugged a hot lesbian couple who happen to be close friends of mine.

Now, I grew up in a happy family and my parents were together until their deaths, but watching the misery of my many married and divorced friends I’ve always known that modern marriage is a terrible deal for men and soul-destroying for women. I did get dangerously close to marriage a couple of times but I always managed to escape – I guess I was born to be MGTOW long before I first heard the term not even a year ago.

Open your eyes even a crack and you will see women assaulting men with hundreds or even thousands of times the frequency that men assault women. A man who complains or refuses is characterized as a weak, worthless wimp, the butt of a joke, and he quickly learns to shut the fuck up in the face of women’s cruelty and just take it. A woman who complains about even imagined slights winds up as the prime minister of Australia.

But a few men are noticing their chains of pink shame and how easy it is to break them when they realize that men have intrinsic worth, too. Women are likewise noticing with angry concern that their whines are no longer keeping their male slaves from breaking away. I am no longer under the control of women, and I see their unease with men like us growing every day.

I’ve never been happier.

About August Løvenskiolds

Once he stumbled onto GirlWritesWhat's videos, August Løvenskiolds, aka The Bibo Sez, started eating red pills like they were tic-tacs. He likes debating feminists, but knows this stage will pass soon enough.

Main Website
View All Posts
  • AVFM seeks app writer volunteer

    Are you an MHRA? Can you write apps for iPhone and Android? Are you willing to do that for AVFM on a special project? Please contact us.

    A Voice for Men seeks a volunteer with solid app writing experience to help us develop an app that will be linked to the AVFM brand. If you have the qualifications and are serious about following through, we would love to hear from you. Your efforts could be of great assistance to this website and to our cause. Please contact Paul Elam at paul@avoiceformen.com for more details...

  • Wikimasters, Editors, Translators, and Writers Wanted *Apply Now*

    Fight Wikipedia censorship! A Voice for Men and WikiMANNia are working to increase knowledge of men's issues through two wikis: the AVfM Reference Wiki for scholarly references, and WikiMANNia for general-interest men's issues. Volunteers needed for writing, proofreading, and organizing. Some knowledge of the German language will be helpful but *not* required.

    Please write to editorial_team@wikimannia.org...

  • http://www.genderratic.com typhonblue

    “I’ve always known that modern marriage is a terrible deal for men and soul-destroying for women.”

    The “soul-destroying” thing is a new one on me.

    Eight years legally marred, fifteen years defacto and my soul seems fine. :D

    And, you’re right, as much as women think men can’t take the word “no”, they’re ten times worse.

    • Aimee McGee

      Like you TB, I don’t feel marriage has to be soul-destroying for women, as long as they go into it with realistic perceptions.
      So many I know still think its a ticket to “happily ever after”, rather than the start of a complex and challenging journey together. When it does fulfil their Cinderella script they do get bitter.
      It’s why I feel women have a lot of work to do to challenge some of the BS notions our gender perpetuates

    • August Løvenskiolds

      @typhonblue & @aimee

      Smart, strong women who can resist the temptations to divorce, or project their jealousy, or shit-test their husbands into insanity, or cheat, are rare jewels indeed. I celebrate them and their fortunate husbands.

      I was thinking more of women in the “trainer marriage” set, and how betraying their first husband’s trust undid them mentally/emotionally.

      Perhaps I’ll write a companion piece on the women I almost married – and what happened to them, and other women like them, when eventually they did marry other men.

  • Iron John

    Hello August and thank you for the article. Do you go by the same user name on YouTube as on AVfM? If so, I’ve been impressed with your comments in both places. More to the point, I think it is fair to say that the burgeoning MRM has gained another asset!

    • August Løvenskiolds

      It is most likely me – to far, no usurpers of my handle have appeared.

      “Bibo” comes from a couple of places – it is Latin for “to drink” or “I quaff”, and here in the Southern US, the word “bible”, when spoken quickly with an accent, sounds like “bibo”. This reflects my family’s mixed, wacky Catholic/Lutheran history.

      • Iron John

        I figured it meant something to that effect. Thanks for clearing that up.

  • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

    August, a terrific article. Thanks.

    Women have historically has huge power from granting access to sex. Even in the modern era they know it’s a far easier way to secure what they want in life, than paid employment. That’s surely why unattractive women, who don’t enjoy that power, are so bitter and resentful. They have equality with men, i.e. they have to work for what they want (or become parasites on taxpayers, mostly men). And how many women would choose equality over special treatment?

    Unattractive women also suffer, of course, from the existence of prostitution and pornography. Which brings us right back to Andrea Dworkin, of course.

    Mike Buchanan

    ANTI-FEMINISM LEAGUE
    http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com

    • Aimee McGee

      I don’t count myself in the attractive segment of the female population. It’s a matter of intense satisfaction I am self-supporting and I’ve got the level of professional respect I have gained for my hard work.
      But then I’m an odd Zeta woman :)

      • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

        Hi Aimee, you have my deep respect for your position, and I hope to meet you one day.

        I find penury a useful state. It renders a man invisible to women and hence no unwanted sexual invitations … being 55, overweight, myopic and diabetic, helps too, to be fair… on the downside, no wanted sexual invitations either. Swings and roundabouts, eh?

        I recently gave a senior lady journalist at a leading British newspaper an interview, and I’m guessing wildly that my appreciation of Cameron Diaz and Keira Knightley might be mentioned in the final article haha

    • Bewildered

      Hello! Sir! How is your party doing ? How is the response ?

      • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

        Thanks Bewildered. We’re getting a lot of interest in the idea of a pro-male anti-feminist party. Perhaps surprisingly, much of it from women – mothers, sisters, daughters, friends, acquaintances and colleagues of men who are being assaulted by feminists.

        Mike Buchanan

        ANTI-FEMINISM LEAGUE
        http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com

        • Bewildered

          ” Perhaps surprisingly, much of it from women – mothers, sisters, daughters, friends, acquaintances and colleagues of men who are being assaulted by feminists. ”
          LOL! Just goes to prove NAWALT.

          “”I was in a class of nine- and 10-year-olds, girls and boys, and this young woman was telling these kids that the reason for wars was the innately violent nature of men.

          “You could see the little girls, fat with complacency and conceit while the little boys sat there crumpled, apologising for their existence, thinking this was going to be the pattern of their lives.”

          Lessing said the teacher tried to “catch my eye, thinking I would approve of this rubbish”.

          She added: “This kind of thing is happening in schools all over the place and no one says a thing.

          “It has become a kind of religion that you can’t criticise because then you become a traitor to the great cause, which I am not.

          “It is time we began to ask who are these women who continually rubbish men. The most stupid, ill-educated and nasty woman can rubbish the nicest, kindest and most intelligent man and no one protests.

          “Men seem to be so cowed that they can’t fight back, and it is time they did.” ” —– Doris Lessing

          This great woman is certainly not like that. She said this in 2001,looks like the condition has worsened even further, I am happy that at least there are some people who have woken up to this nonsense.

  • http://www.iamthewill.wordpress.com Will of The People

    Excellent piece August!

    I, too have had women insist I am gay because I refused their advances. In fact, a few weeks ago, I was at a club with a friend of mine, having a drink. We got into a conversation with a couple of women, sitting out on the back patio having a smoke. One of their friends decided she was going to jump into my lap and start bouncing on me.

    Thing is, I like women bigger, with some meat on them, and this woman was built like one of the Olson twins (way too skinny for me), and her face was a train wreck on top of it. So when she started bouncing her bony ass on my lap, it actually hurt as well as being an unwanted advance from someone I found physically unappealing.

    My immediate response was to lift her from my lap, tell her “that hurts, and you’re not my type, anyway,” and stand and walk away.

    She spent the entire rest of the evening running around the entire place, pointing at me and telling anyone who would listen that I was a “fag” for not wanting to sleep with her.

    Could you imagine the reaction if a man treated a woman like that? It wouldn’t even get that far, because the second he jumped on her without warning, a dozen white knights would kick his ass, call the police, and he would be immediately convicted with attempted rape.

    It’s true, Hell hath no fury…

    Sidenote: I bet Hell has furries, though, which could be kind of entertaining

  • http://marktrueblood.posterous.com/ Mark Trueblood

    Great article, and though I am not hot stuff either I have experienced some of the same circumstances.

    Related, and even more taboo, is how a few women have an issue with men of their race dating interracially.

    • corbyworld

      Yes, I agree. Women will go on and on about their love for Latinos or any other specific cultural group or race of men and most men never bat an eye. But the minute a guy says something like ‘I love Black women’ they flip their lid. “What’s wrong with white women?!?!”

      An Asian friend of mine has a thing for white girls. He tells me that whenever he mentions it in front of Asian women he gets the same reaction. “What’s wrong with Asian women?!?!”

      What jealous little girls they can be.

      • http://marktrueblood.posterous.com/ Mark Trueblood

        Obviously either gender can be bigoted but it’s another issue where women get away with it more.

        • Wendy

          I think women get away with that and similar things because people mistake it for women being naturally more vocal about their feelings, implying that men feel it, too, and just don’t say anything.

          When, in reality, women are not only taught to be more vocal about their feelings while boys are taught to toughen up, but are also taught to basically whine for what they want. They’re taught from a young age to take offense from boys and be sure to complain about it so everyone can jump in and fix the problem.

          Basically, it seems to me, it’s another version of the pussy pass.

          • http://marktrueblood.posterous.com/ Mark Trueblood

            Good analysis. I think it also comes from the prevalent bias that if a woman does something wrong, there must be some nasty man pulling her strings.

        • August Løvenskiolds

          The current ugly, racist and anti-male slur heard in cases of interracial relationships is “trophy-hunter”. I’ve most commonly heard it used by women to refer to white men who date women of any other race, although I have heard the related term “white trophy-hunter” used by black women to refer to black men who date white women.

  • ContraTerrene

    I had exactly the same type of responses from women as you when it came to rejection. In addition, they would often run to their guy friends if they were there and try to instigate a fight.

    Sad to see such a lack of empathy and introspection on their parts, after all, all they would have to do is switch roles and imagine how they would feel if a man did that to them.

    Another reason is that women don’t recognize what strength is in a man anymore. We are viewed by many as personal defense systems complete with ATM and dildo.

    In the days of the Roman republic and empire men were mocked if they were more than usually sexual as it was seen as a lack of willpower and control over one’s emotions, how times have changed.

  • Aimee McGee

    August, I’ve seen dozens of occasions where women have hit on men and when refused they’ve got all hostile and bitter.
    One more memorable time was two women hitting in tandem on my Beloved (we are both quite relaxed social people and will often be talking to different folk on social occasions)… Anyhow, I came up to him and stood close enough to hear but not close enough to stake my claim.
    I was shocked they would not take his polite efforts at avoiding excessive intimacy in the conversation. In the end I got a second drink and went up, took his glass out if his hand and put the fresh one in it with a smile.
    Their reaction was priceless…they were dolled up to the 9s and I was in a variant of plain dress, with no make up and short hair. First reaction to me was clearly ‘gay female friend’, so Beloved puts his arm around my waist and pulls me in to stand close to him.
    “Oh, you guys are like…together?” One said. “Yep, 8 years and I’m still crazy for her.” He said
    We had a good laugh later at their shocked disbelief and clear confusion…they couldn’t get their heads around this ‘odd couple’

  • Kimski

    Spot on article, Mr.Løvenskiolds, and I couldn’t agree more with the general conclusions.

    I have a number of ‘No Mam’s’ under the belt too, due to my involvement in the music business, and it’s been my experience that the better looking, the harsher the replies or retaliations.

    The gay attack has always been the first on the list, and having an drummer in the band who actually were gay, it led to some seriously nasty counter replies from him, whenever he witnessed that behavior. That used to shut them up pretty quickly, but then the crying would usually be next. From personal experíence I can only agree wholeheartedly with Typhonblue, when she writes that women are ten times worse when it comes to no’s.

    A striking amount of self infatuation I’ve witnessed over the years, come to think of it. Always wondered why women like that didn’t just go that extra mile, and ask themselves out on a date. It would make a lot more sense, considering their level of narcissism.

    “One man commented “You have got to be kidding me […] If I EVER turn down sex it’s because I’m in a COMA!!!”

    No, it’s the other way around.
    You say yes to sex. She wakes up from her drunken stupor the next day and falsely accuses you of rape. You then go to jail, where they beat you into a coma.

    • greg

      Kimski

      That’s not a False Accusation anymore. That is a Rape Charge in today’s USA.

      They’ve watered the definitions of Rape and Sexual Assault to the point where they are meaningless. Everything falls under these definitions.

      I try telling my 18yr old…

    • Bewildered

      ” No, it’s the other way around.
      You say yes to sex. She wakes up from her drunken stupor the next day and falsely accuses you of rape. You then go to jail, where they beat you into a coma. ”

      ROFLMAO! Hilarious!

      Much like the adverse health effects of refined sugar and refined flour obsessive recreational sex is proving to be detrimental to people’s mental health

  • Kukla

    Marriage is soul-destroying for women? I had no idea that having unlimited choices and rights within a marriage setting was soul-destroying. Huh, you learn something new every day!

    • August Løvenskiolds

      I think perhaps it related to the “power corrupts” idea – having sudden and complete power over both the happiness and the disposal of one’s husband (in the modern model of marriage) erodes the woman’s moral center until the temptation to abuse her power overwhelms her.

      Husbands no longer have the power nor even the understanding of the necessity to establish firm boundries for the wives who would thrive under those boundries.

      Now, both Typhon and Aimee have obvious skills at self-discipline and self-understanding and this allows their marriages to flourish. Few women in an era shaped by selfish feminist entitlements and male repression can pull this off successfully.

      • Bewildered

        ” Now, both Typhon and Aimee have obvious skills at self-discipline and self-understanding and this allows their marriages to flourish ”

        All the more reason why such women should be cherished and held up as role models for young girls.
        But NO! they love their Paris Hiltons, Kim Kardashians,Anita Sarkeesians etc. and become ‘obese’ imbibing their ‘wisdom’.

        • donzaloog

          Fuck Anita Sarkeesian.

          • August Løvenskiolds

            Um, no thanks.

            Even as I was working on my second draft of this article, a contrasting (yet, oddly, still complementary) piece was published by The Onion:

            http://www.theonion.com/articles/teenage-girl-blossoming-into-beautiful-object,31061/

          • donzaloog

            LOL! That sums up how feminists think men see women perfectly.

          • Bewildered

            ” LOL! That sums up how feminists think men see women perfectly.”

            Projection?

  • corbyworld

    Excellent article, August.

    I could honestly write part II. One brief, recent example:

    Several weeks ago I had a female client put the child locks on while in her car with her. Once we stopped so that I could be dropped off I turned to open the door. Realizing the child locks were on I turned back to her to kindly let her know.

    Before I could say a word she was on top of me grabbing at my crotch and trying to kiss me. I almost threw up it made me so sick to my stomach.

    Talk about your rock and a hard place. Push her off me and risk assault charges due to self defence? Say no to her attack on my person and risk false sexual assault charges? Let her rape me for fear of the previous and my life being ruined?

    Once I had convinced her to stop she immediately started suggesting something was wrong with me. She was not a sexual predator, I was defective.

    Women really can’t handle rejection. At least, most of them can’t. They need to justify their narcissistic attitudes by victim-blaming; by projecting their own shortcomings onto others, male or female.

    If another girl is more beautiful, she’s automatically a bitch. If a male rejects her, he’s gay. Homophobic women; they’re everywhere.

    A special thanks to our politicians for legislating males out of equal representation under the law and leaving us defenceless to women’s whims.

    A very special thanks to feminist ideologues for their sexist lobbying efforts and making this a reality.

    When it all comes crashing down you’ll wish you’d never started it.

    • MarkofWisdom

      My ex was the one pressuring for sex when I was clearly uncomfortable with it and made it clear that I wanted to wait until marriage(oh how deluded I was to think marriage had anything to offer). After nearly 2 years of nagging about it I finally caved, but at the store I got a godsend hail mary in the form of her having a stroke of conscious-“if you really don’t want to then you don’t have to”(this after years of nagging trying to make it my fault). I seized on that and apparently she really didn’t expect me to-I was accused of being defective and impotent, as well as being gay(an especially hilarious attempt at insulting me since her “best friend” was a lesbian), not to mention the giant pissy fit that followed for weeks.

  • zip

    I have a question: In Usa is it enough to get you convicted for rape if woman just says that she has been raped ? No hard evidence isn’t needed, just womans word is enough?

    That kind of impression i get, when i read news, peoples stories and this kind of sites. If that is the case, arent u afraid to have sex with women in your country, i would be if i was living in Usa.

    • greg

      The answer is yes. No evidence,, only an accusation will convict you.

      Darrell Williams. Chicago Innocence Project wrote extensively about His Case, as did “Community of the Wrongly Accused.”

      Jordan Johnson Montana, his Rape trial starts next month. He’s on trial because she says that consensual sex is Rape. Missoula County has assigned 5 Prosecutors to try to lock him up.

      Here’s 2 things I’ve read but don’t know how to post links to.

      In the State of Washington, after a Rape/Sexual Assault trial, the Judge instructs the Jury that the burden of proof is now on then defendant to prove by “the Preponderance of Evidence” that relations were consensual.

      State of California, Jury is told that Defendant “Can be convicted, based on an Accusation alone.”

    • August Løvenskiolds

      The state of Texas has seen a huge number of rape convictions overturned due to DNA evidence overriding the sworn testimony of the supposed victims. Rape shield laws designed to “protect” victims often mute rape defendents from examining cases with obvious flaws.

      If you convict the wrong guy, then the victim wasn’t protected at all – plus, you now have a brand new victim, the destroyed, innocent man.

      • zip

        “If you convict the wrong guy, then the victim wasn’t protected at all – plus, you now have a brand new victim, the destroyed, innocent man.”

        Exactly. But think about how much women have power over men, if their word is enough to get you convicted for rape.

        I know that women how does false accusations are rare and majority of women would never do that kind of thing.

        But anyway, u never can be sure if u have sex with that kind of crazy woman how goes after sex and does rape charge.

        That is scary.

      • All Contraire

        One thing you may have noticed is that all these falsely accused men––and there are so many of them––when they finally get out after years in Texas’ brutal men’s prison system, seem so inexplicably optimistic and even cheerful––despite the interminable years of constant stress and suffering, made far, far worse and less bearable knowing that, though damned and sent to hell, they are innocent.

        Are they really that happy, that humbled and grateful just to be free again and going back home?

        Indeed to the System that unjustly put them away, these men’s seeming forgiving outlook on life must be a godsend, letting the police, prosecutors, and judges off the hook and free to rest comfortably with, they ‘justly’ reassure themselves, clear consciences and renewed confidence that they are indeed chivalrous knights administering righteous justice and vengeance on behalf of Southern womanhood.

        Even more perversely, Feminist Rape Culture Advocates turn the Innocent Project’s freedmen to their own agenda in asserting that, yes, what was done to them was “not nice”; but still it is far better for a hundred innocent men go to prison than that one poor helpless victim might not be believed and get her bitter justice. Who further say that it’s a small price to pay if all men can only learn by example what rape victims feel like.

        But I don’t think optimism is what these freed innocent men are showing us at all. What I see in their bent bodies and prematurely aged faces are men who have been completely intentionally broken and stripped of their humanity by years locked up at the cruel mercy of a System designed to make them fearful and submissive every single day of their suddenly truncated lives. That forces them to put on impassive countenances as hard and confining as the stone walls they live behind and as cold as their hearts and spirits must become to survive. Masks meant to hide any weakness and the constant gnawing fear harshly ingrained into them day after day after inescapable day in that gray hell where they will be beaten and sodomized; where they may well be attacked and killed for any perceived slight or imagined offense.

        These are doomed men who, even though they have been exonerated and released, remain justifiably convinced that any minute they could be roughly seized and returned back to that hellish existence. After all it happened before.

        They may have been let out from actual Texas prisons of stone walls and iron bars. But they are lost men who are going to remain prisoners of their own inescapable fears and nightmares for the rest of what is left to them of their stolen and forever diminished lives.

        • August Løvenskiolds

          One additional factor to consider is that for the exonerated, Texas has a compensation system that dumps a lot of cash onto the freshly freed – further stoking their natural feelings of relief, and fostering a further optimism that all too often destroys them once again.

          Now, compensating those unfortunate innocents is great, in theory, but after sometimes decades of brutal, unjust incarceration, those lads have no real, relevant skills in managing the one and only cash windfall they will ever see…

          …and the state just wants them to go away, rather than take responsibility for the ongoing process those guys are going to have to go through in order to reintegrate themselves back into a society that has long forgotten them.

  • thefeministmra

    I’ve never encountered a truly nasty reaction to a rejection; usually it’s some quick insult, backhanded compliment or something indistinguishable under their breath as we part ways. I find the vindictive nature of the rejected extends as far as they feel they can affect you; which in my case is about as far as they can throw me.

    On the flip side though; I’ve received many thanks for being open and honest with them. One even called me a true gentlemen, while others usually thank me for my time. But I got the distinct impression that these women had already gone through their humbling experience; which many women still need to go through.

    I don’t think we’re opposed to casual relations with like minded females; they just need to avoid being creepy about it.

  • zip

    “The answer is yes. No evidence,, only an accusation will convict you.”

    That really is insane, I feel bad for all men how live in Usa. In Finland over 20 prosent rape accusations are false. Police have made statement to women many times that they would stop doing false accusations.

    In this country nobody is charged only if woman says so, u have to have some hard evidence too. I don’t know why do u call Usa constitutional state anymore.

    • cvar

      In parts of the US the percentage is over 50. Florida and New York have both had police departments come out and ask women to stop, wish they’d just enforce the law and punish these women. I bet it’d dry up right quick then.

      • http://none universe

        But enforcing the law, if one exists for false accusations, would ‘make it more difficult for victims of rape to come forward’. Certain jurisdictions within Canada lay charges of ‘mischief’ upon a false accuser. Mostly as a public shaming for the expense of inconveniencing the local constabulatory.

        How more difficult can it be to come forward with a rape claim when numerous caterers are at her service? “It’s forcing a rape victim to re-live the ordeal again and again”, has become the rote answer. There’s a good degree of truth in that. But receiving justice is the domain of women so a rape victim would want her assailant found, tried and dispensed with.

        In the mean time, regarding false rape accusations, it appears better to fry 10 innocent men and serve them to the penitentiary.

    • harrywoodape

      Good for Finland. That is sensible. However other nations have a much lower bar for making false accusations of rape stick.

  • harrywoodape

    All sex for a man, with the current laws, is ‘unprotected’ sex.
    I went to the extreme and insisted on video recording my sex so there isn’t a ‘falsie’ later on down the line.
    These days, most consensual sex seems to resemble rape anyway. It’s sad really, I blame pornhub.

    • zip

      “These days, most consensual sex seems to resemble rape anyway. It’s sad really, I blame pornhub.”

      What do u mean ? If two adults wanna have sex, even if sex is rough or something like that and they enjoy themselfs, what is the problem?

      I have had sex some women how don’t like soft sex and only do it in missionary position etc..Some women wanna have sex like two animals are doing it, really rough and that kind of style, if u know what im talking about.

      • August Løvenskiolds

        Rough consensual sex can leave exaggerated bruises, scratches and other incidental markers on both willing partners that become evidence against a man should the question of rape occur.

        Let’s say that a woman is murdered shortly after such sex – the DNA and physical damage will point to the male sex partner, even if someone else actually murdered the woman.

        • zip

          Well if u are not the murderer, of course u have alibi. And u can have testimony from other partners and friends that she like to have rough sex etc.

          Don’t be too paranoid and enjoy life.

      • harrywoodape

        I do know what you are talking about.

  • Dazza

    Cool article bro.

    I started surfing when I was around 12 and would read in the surfing magazines how much better surfing is than sex. When I finally did have sex I was disappointed even at the very first time. Surfing is way better.

    One night stands don’t interest me because I am always left disappointed. It seems I am one of those guys who needs the emotional to go with the physical. Therefore it has been so easy for me to reject a woman’s sexual advances. Never really had an angry response to the rejection. Yeah they definitely looked rejected but they didn’t yell at me or insult me or anything like that.

    I really do enjoy sex in a relationship though. For me, if a woman is going to put out, she needs to put out emotionally as well for me to enjoy it.

    I agree with this quote of yours:

    “But a few men are noticing their chains of pink shame and how easy it is to break them when they realize that men have intrinsic worth, too. Women are likewise noticing with angry concern that their whines are no longer keeping their male slaves from breaking away. I am no longer under the control of women, and I see their unease with men like us growing every day.

    I’ve never been happier.”

    You are right. I do know my worth and as a result, I am not going to fall for any cheap imitations. For me to be interested in a woman, she needs to brings so much more to the table than just sex.

    She’d have to eat a vast amount of red pills for starters.

  • concujak

    I once said (very nicely too) no to an ex girlfriend… I honestly thought she would just be cool with it…

    oh boy was I wrong…

  • harrywoodape

    What is the problem? I don’t really know if it is a problem but sex has been completely disaccociated from love or affection. I can’t say it’s a problem at all. Rough sex turns many people on. If the woman wanted to prosecute…under today’s laws…much of what I have done consensually could be falsely accused as rape.

    • zip

      Maybe in Usa and why not even here. Men have to do contracts before having sex, or do video interview that woman is saying hundred times that she want to have sex and its okay if its rough.

      Times are changing, maybe these kind of things we just have to do these days before having sex with any woman.

      But of course then women are crying that isnt romantic or spontaneous and we have ruined the mood :D

      • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

        Digital voice recorder. Get one.

  • MGTOW-man

    I would like to highlight something that I say over and over on this site: change men and you change the world.

    I was not surprised by the occurrences of multiple harassment, sexual advances, and molestations from females toward males.

    Nor am I surprised by the expectations placed on men: they need to accommodate ANY woman who wants “it”, and at the same time, read her mind, even if she acts and looks interested, to see what she REALLY wants.

    One of my experiences was when I was “paired up” with a woman who in my opinion, looked like a fish. Really, she had a pointy head with sides to it, each with an eye on them. I was not interested in her at all. But when I didn’t get up on her, she accused me of being gay and told others the same.

    My friends, many who have known me for decades, said without any shadow of doubt that such baseless, speculative assumptions is all that they are. However, two of the “new friends”, males, who now didn’t trust me, agreed with the fish.

    My response to those two? I said, “You can keep your fantasies to yourselves. If you touch me wrong, they’ll never find your bodies!”

    Not very diplomatic, sure, but it worked. They left me alone from then on.

    Seriously, why our fathers continue to foster such stupidity and wheel-spinning stupor-ness that they do to their boys when they “help” their boys by teaching them how to get laid, and also at the same time, avoid teaching the skills to survive in a feminist-poisoned world… is beyond me. It continues to amaze me just how stupid some males continue to be.

    ..and men continue to cling to losing. Poor had-suckers!

    “Hardwiring?” Bullshyt! Hardwiring doesn’t account for near as much of the blame as does socialization.

    Change men and you change the world!

  • Alek

    Relevant piece crafted by two notorious apologists


    Clarissa Thorny And Schwayzer wrote this apologist piece here:
    http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/why-are-men-expected-to-make-the-first-move-in-sex-and-relationships/

    – In it, there is this entitled narcissistic attitude that Clarissa is a perfect goddess and it is impossible for any man to have REJECTED HER

    How do I know this? In her constant defense of women being lazy and practicing plausible deniability* she says she made a move on a guy ONCE (earlier in life) and it didn’t work out (hence) men must not like women making a move.

    BECAUSE AS WE KNOW THAT’S THE ONLY POSSIBLE explanation. It’s not like SHE (the perfect goddess that she is) could have POSSIBLY gotten rejected could she? No, of course not, she is a feminist and hence a perfect being of light made of sugar, spice and everything nice…

    *-> Plausible deniability is the sadistic practice engaged in by female humans where they purposefully place male humans in a double or triple bind. The human female purposefully only communicates “I might or might not be interested” and then proceeds to engage in passivity and sometimes even outright lies (for example before a woman hooks up with John she might even go so far as to claim she doesn’t like John and doesn’t see him that way) so that a) if copulation does occur, she may say he seduced her and take no responsibility b) if copulation doesn’t occur she can always claim she wasn’t even interested in the first place (plausible deniability).

    Warren Farrell calls this “date fraud” as a concept equivalent to “date rape”.

    All of this points to a deeper problem in our society where it teaches that ONLY males (subhuman filth that they are) can be worthy of rejection and a female shall never receive it. It goes to the point where the occasional rare woman does make a move, she does so with UTTER entitlement (I mean she’s a woman a.k.a. goddess, how could any sane mane not be interested in her?). And if she gets rejected, she accuses him of either being insane or gay. The first option is narcissism on her part, and the second option is homophobic bigoted filth.

  • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

    Excellent article, August! I always love your comments, and this was even better. Please submit more!

  • Steve_85

    I swore off women… must be 4 years ago now… after a bad break up with a woman that ended with me having to move to the other side of Australia to get away from all the damage she’d done to my public image.

    Nothing gets those bed invites coming faster than making it generally known that while you’re straight, you’re just not interested in women. They all have to test it.

    Don’t stick your dick in crazy. As far as I’m concerned, they’re all crazy.

    • Sting Chameleon

      If you can’t afford hiring a pro, simply don’t bother. The risk is too large and I completely agree with your stance.

  • Phil in Utah

    I’ve known that women take rejection a lot harder than men. Growing up Mormon, I attended a number of church-sponsored dances as a teenager. There were a number of girls that I enjoyed talking to and dancing with at these events. Now, Mormon girls are distinctly more physically attractive than the rest of the population, but of course there are exceptions on both ends of the scale. There were times at these dances when I was tired, or in a less-than-exemplary mood, or found the girl just plain unattractive, and refused to dance when asked. Now, I’d been rejected myself, and I always took it gracefully, but when I refused these entitled “Daughters of God”, their countenance became anything but holy, and instead turned nasty and demanding. They would harangue me for as long as the three subsequent songs, sometimes in groups. On more than one occasion, they made up the lie that Church policy forbade men from refusing women at dances. The adults chaperoning these dances certainly saw me being harassed, but they only intervened when I asked, and then it was little more than a token “Be nice, girls.”

    And they wondered why I felt that Mormon men are bullied into marriage.

  • andybob

    There is no subtext of homophobia in, “well, as it happens, I wasn’t gay until I met you.” What it has, is pure genius, and I am absconding with it forthwith. This article is brilliant, Mr Lovenskoid. Many fascinating insights here – and in the comments.

    You’d think a gay man would have quite an advantage in these circumstances, but it can sometimes make the situation even more bizarre. You’d be amazed at how many rejected women have sworn that sneering at me wasn’t gay-shaming at all. No, it was straight-shaming. You see, they thought I was straight, so they were trying to shame me by accusing me of not being straight…straight-shaming

    Get it? Neither do I.

    The fury of women scorned has always looked to me like fragile egos in violent meltdown. Most women are coddled and protected from the day they are born. Not just from harm, but from disappointment as well. The result is a huge number of women who just can’t cope with some of life’s harsher realities, such as being rejected by their choice of mate.

    I know that many people will disagree with this, but I have often wondered if some of the extreme reactions might stem from a sense of being caught out behaving like, dare I say it, sluts. Being rejected may feel like a critique of their behavior, which makes them feel the kind of socially shameful stigma which they then try to project onto the man.

    The women who don’t react violently always seem to be the ones who just ask for sex directly and honestly, as opposed to bouncing their bony bums on your laps and pole-dancing up your leg. Why do people turn into hams when sex is in the air? Sex doesn’t always have to be a theatrical event with costumes, accents and mood lighting.

    When I discussed this with my twin brother, I suggested that gay-shaming may not pack the punch it used to. He told me in the blunt way I love him for that I had to be straight to really understand the power that a woman can wield in such circumstances. He is also absconding with, “well, as it happens, I wasn’t gay until I met you,” and intends to use it forthwith. He sends his regards to Mr Lovenskoids.

    Even with my brother’s comment in mind, I must say that Mr MGTOW-man’s comment took me aback. The reason that Fish-head Woman accused you of being gay was because she hoped to elicit a violent response from you – one you would direct at someone other than her. Her hopes were realized.

    “You can keep your fantasies to yourselves. If you touch me wrong, they’ll never find your bodies!”

    Being gay-shamed by people who don’t even know you should not have you issuing death threats. Your friends were there, and they knew the truth. You wouldn’t last 5 minutes if you really were gay – think about it.

    • MGTOW-man

      Hello fellow MRA. I do not want to muddy the waters any more but feel I should respond to your comments about my comments. Trust me, I meant well, I still do.

      A “violent response” from me would have been to slap her for insulting me, like she would likely do to me if I had insulted her…and expect to get away with it all because she is female. I do not believe in violence short of self-defense, so that wasn’t going to happen. (Actually being gay and called so, according to several friends of mine, is not insulting, but using it as shaming language to control and punish men, is).

      I did not think my comments to the two “new friends”, (who did and still do know me) was violence or real death threats. I was merely using straight mens rules to “prove” you are not gay, since it is so darned direly important to most of them and their mind-warping egos. If one stands their ground, like I did, they will eventually respect you more so. What was I to do, run out and let them have the last word? Not going to happen! I gave quick answers and it worked. I do not have time or the will to prepare ahead of time knock-down comments that blow people down. It was impromptu.

      I could never kill anyone. I do not have it in me unless in war or unless my own life was in immediate danger—which it wasn’t.

      “He told me in the blunt way I love him for that I had to be straight to really understand the power that a woman can wield in such circumstances.”—Your brother is sooo right there…with so many facets. I wish it weren’t so, but it is.

      It wasn’t so much in being called gay, I think what fish woman wanted was to punish and control me, which infuriated me. Besides, the two new acquaintances latched on to something they actually knew nothing about, so I had that to deal with as well. Some of those people (as a group) are so confused and perhaps struggling with orientation identity themselves, that they can become very unpredictable in a flash.

      I wish I hadn’t taken you aback. To provoke my fellow fighters is never my intention when I write anything here. My aim is to speak to the uncommitted, who have tuned in, so they see and know the truth and passion built in to the fight we are going to have to fight soon and so perhaps they can relate and realize we are right and thus, stop being cowards and customers long enough to get things back on track.

      There were other comments above mine that provided THEIR remedies for when shaming lies hit them square across their heads. I was merely contributing what worked for me. Besides, I could share other examples also from my life experiences. Instead, I will leave it at that.

      I was also letting prospective female shamming- insulters know that their efforts are futile for I/we will bounce back regardless of their selfish meanness.

      I could have told the fish what I thought about her looks and behavior but I didn’t and was minding my own business when verbally attacked by the two others.

      So peace! Brother, let us stay focused on helping men and boys. No matter what, we will always be on the same side.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F (Ian Williams)

        MGTOW-man.

        Far from being a white knight for our AndyBob, I have to tell you the ‘not find bodies’ remark was dopey.

        We know you aren’t violent anyway, and your fine reply here affirms it in spades. With that spirit, I am sure you’d find moments of respite with said “friends” by not getting in the last word, seriously.

        Not convinced? Put it this way if you will.

        What does it matter the activity between the furry ears of your “friends” if those friends become “friends” because of their idiocy via treason?

        Better perhaps to have their words as a filtering device that sorts wheat from dirt and turn the other heterosexual cheek.

        Upvoted you for your integrity.

        [Admin edit: Ok AndyBob. I did the comment you nagged me over and over to write. Now let it alone mate, ok?]

        • MGTOW-man

          Thanks for your constructive comments. That goes for all the others who contributed as well. I did not realize how much controversy I would create when I set out to state something that happened to me.

          I thought the purpose of the article, “just say no…” was so that we could address the shaming (punish and control) language hurled at us (often “sucker-punch”-delivered in a threatening environment) when we are honest enough with ourselves, with others, and especially when we do not want to have sex with people in which we are not interested—for whatever reasons we have. Not all men are alike, nor should we be. So expecting all of us to behave as sex machines when we are “supposed to” is garbage, and is something I would like to see changed. Thus, I was glad this article appeared on one of my favorite websites.

          I made my comment foremost so that “outside” readers can see that we aren’t just going to sit back and take their bull. We are NOT going to let them steamroll us like they try.

          Honestly, at the time, I was faced with a situation that required something out of me, so I took on the aforementioned defensive posture… and it worked.

          While I do not regret saying what I said to them at the time it was said because I know the situation best and did what I felt was necessary, (if I had just pleaded with them to not be so “nasty” etc, it would have made the situation much worse. I have had to fight over this/similar issue(s) before, so I have learned that heading it off at the pass is much better, if given the chance), however, I probably shouldn’t have written it here on this forum. So with that in mind, please accept my apology for anyone who was offended—fellow MRA’s, that is.

          To the rest of you out there who are listening but are uncommitted, fat chance!

          I value constructive criticism very much and will admit that here, on this forum, my comment WAS somewhat “dopey”. But I did tell the truth which is what I always set out to do no matter what—especially with/about (those kinds of) women and men and their behavior.

          Again, thanks to all. And it is reassuring that no matter what, we will remain on the same side, fighting for a common cause. United, we stand a chance; divided, we will be erased.

          Love you all.

      • andybob

        As Dr F said, a fine reply. Thanks for taking the time to post it. I completely believe my brother’s assurance that I can never fully appreciate the unique stresses and strains of the straight man’s experience.

        How is this for a bit of absurdity: the only time I have ever been gay-shamed is by people who thought I was straight. So, you see, I find the whole idea of gay-shaming to be, well, absurd. However, if I were staright, I would probably think of it differently.

        I don’t know – so, who am I to judge?

        All I know is that I hate seeing people manipulated by the taunts of dickheads like fish-head woman and her ilk. They don’t deserve that much effort.

        Anyway, peace back to you brother. It must rankle misandrists no end that people like us can stand proudly shoulder-to-shoulder on the same side to fight for the rights of men and boys. Much respect to you.

        PS: Don’t believe Dr F – I hardly nagged him at all!

        • MGTOW-man

          “It must rankle misandrists no end that people like us can stand proudly shoulder-to-shoulder on the same side to fight for the rights of men and boys.”
          —The fact that we can do this is, according to their choice of label, “hatred”. However, when we can successfully gather most men and unite against the unraveling, then they will see just how much we indeed loved and still love women…girls, men, and boys—always have. Always keep that in mind, brother. And much respect to you as well.

    • August Løvenskiolds

      Thank you, Andybob. I am honored by your “absconding”; is it still absconding if I approve of it?

      The homophobic subtext of the phrase “I wasn’t gay until I met you” is subtle but still bugged me – if I might explain my convoluted thinking – ignoring the humorous component and taking it literally, the phrase suggests that my exposure to a toxic person’s attitudes quickly and easily altered my sexual orientation – from straight to gay, in this case, but that is not important.

      Such an easy alteration of sexual preference, if possible, might be used to justify abominations like gay-shaming, and even coersive gay reparation theory – “pray the gay away”, and all that crap. Considering the large incidence of suicide among gay men and boys, I was discomfitted to be even tangentially associated with such thinking, and so I altered my response to be explicit in my love and support of gay men.

      Again, this is just my own convoluted self-judgment and is not intended to cause offense to others who might not share my perspective in this matter.

      • andybob

        For me, the literal interpretation – that your exposure to a toxic person’s attitudes quickly and easily altered your sexual orientation – is the humorous component.

        “I wasn’t gay until I met you” actually pokes fun at the idea that orientation is fluid. Because orientation is so fixed, the gay-shaming wench that made you ‘turn’ must have been an absolute horror. It’s the perfect riposte – a gem. Thanks for sharing it.

        I hope this is the first of many articles by you.

        • http://none universe

          Yes, double entendre to the max.

          And, yes, essay of excellent prose.

  • donzaloog

    Great article. Good job.

  • Sting Chameleon

    It’s so satisfying to watch some entitled skank foam in the mouth when she gets rejected, I’ve taken it up as a hobby.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/ManSpeakOut?feature=mhee ManSpeakOut

    A few years ago I was hanging out at a school football game with a few friends of mine. Out of nowhere a woman sneaks up behind me, pinches my ass and then runs off into the distance. I stood there and stared with a “WTF just happened” look on my face as she ran away.

    I ignored it and went on about my day. Later she and a friend of hers approached me from my right side and walked right up and grabbed my genitalia and asked “How do you like that?”

    I with a sense of discomfort in my voice easily noticeable said “I don’t know”. I was stunned and caught up in the heat of the moment and wish I said something better.

    At this point onlookers started to take notice, the women noticed and took off and I never saw them again.

    Another story happened at a Mcdonalds about three years back. I was hanging out with my same friend in the previous story. I was hanging with him and a few of his friends. One of the women in our group did not have enough money to pay for her meal.

    When I was getting ready to order she came up to me and leaned on my shoulder, her face pressed up against mine and began winking her eyes so that her eye lashes would tickle my cheek. She then asked if I could give her some money so she could eat.

    I did not cave and told her that I did not have the money to pay her way. She continued to beg me for another 30 seconds but after noticing that I was gonna gonna budge she left me alone and tried her luck with another man in our group.

    He sadly caved in and gave what she wanted. All I could do was just shake my head.

  • blueflavored

    You make some great points, and I was on board until the very end (I really like the dig against homophobic women, that’s an awesome comeback), but this–“Open your eyes even a crack and you will see women assaulting men with hundreds or even thousands of times the frequency that men assault women”–I cannot abide. Thousand of times? Hey, I deal with creeps all the time at my workplace, too. Pulling ridiculously exaggerated figures like this out of your ass detracts from your argument.