A game not worth the candle

I have the pussy, so I make the rules.

Most readers will already be aware that the author of this article does not posses female genitalia, so the preceding statement might seem, at first, odd. However, the sentiment behind “I have the pussy, so I make the rules” will be familiar as a thread in almost all modern discourse between men and women. Depending on who is asked, when this is pointed out, this elicits grudging acknowledgement, or agreeing nods, and in a few cases, resentment. What’s less common is a philosophical parsing of that narrative, usually left unstated: “I have the pussy, so I make the rules”.

Pretty obviously, this is an example of the formal logical fallacy known as the Appeal to Force. This might be argued as less a fallacy than an operational practice. Although it is usually unstated, this remains a major element in relations between men and women. In fact, in any masculine objection to this ideal the fallback narrative almost always present in modern sexual discourse is another logical fallacy, the charge of sour grapes. “you’re just bitter because you can’t get laid”.

The superb Shaming Tactics Catalog lists these as “The Pink Whip” and the “Charge of Rationalization,” respectively, and in the second case asks the relevant question, “what if the grapes really are sour?” In asking that, it must be noted again that “I have the pussy, so I make the rules,” rather than being an opening conversational gambit is a usually unstated narrative. This means that while it applies as blunt force trauma and a tool of manipulation and control, it’s more subtle application is in public popular definition of acceptable male identity. What constitutes a good man? what is a gentleman? and who ultimately determines any shared agreement of these definitions?

Another way to examine this is: who does the definition of good man benefit, and who carries the cost?

Unfortunately, most socially accepted models for male identity continue to depend on service to, or utility to the social collective, or to women. A “real man” is one who provides for, protects, or sacrifices on behalf of the collective, or of a woman. This is really just an extension of “I have the pussy, so I make the rules.” The rules in this case govern the acceptable definition of a real man.

Men, socialized in this framework are dependent for a positive social identity on the childish and selfish emotional caprice of women. If masculine adult self-determination was not sufficient to reject this model, the modern reality that females are neither socialized to acquire, nor often demonstrate any empathy, accountability or motivation beyond a narrow and short term self-interest; Men must reject both their socially conditioned model for being “good men” as well as learning a healthy contempt for collective approval.

However, development of a male model for self-value and positive identity apart from utility to collectives or females is not enough. Even as a growing culture of positive male self identity emerges from the men’s rights movement, it is necessary to publicly outline some of the emerging framework. Because of self-interested hypergamy, men not showing-off their utility to women are largely invisible to them. In fact, when such men are visible, it is through the filter of female defined male-identity, so Men Going Their Own Way are incorrectly characterized as failures. This is the opposite of the truth, men going their own way are winners by their own measure. The early adopters of this path are pioneers shedding thousands of years of behavioural programming and freeing themselves from a corrupt system of exploitation.

What are these pioneers winning? The answer to that being their own value as human beings endowed naturally and automatically with the human rights, justice, reproductive rights which under traditional frameworks men are denied in all cases except where they are of positive utility to collectives and to women.

The system wide impact of this new framework has positive benefits substantially beyond those accrued to individual practicing men. First among these is the removal from collective use of labor, money, the dispensation or absorbtion of violence on behalf of others, women, or a collective.

That collective which discounts the humanity of men and boys, and regards their worth as human beings conditional on their utility. Examining the near total failure of feminists, and women in general to respond to detailed exposition of human rights inequities impacting men, it becomes evident that women, as currently socialized, are immune to these inequities when expressed in terms of facts, logic, statistics or empathy.

Men continue to die, as they are legally marginalized and the gender-ideology driving this responds by portraying them as less than human. Rather than responding to evidence based arguments, feminists as well as non-feminist women have demonstrated no tendency except to react with accusations of misogyny to men stepping off the treadmill of service and disposability. To men arguing for human rights which women have long taken for granted, women have shown a collective refusal to acknowledge that such men are anything except criminals, monsters, weaklings, sissies, subhumans and failures. They are non-men, who in their stupid testosterone addled brains dare to pursue any path outside female-defined real-manhood. Bluntly, women, taken as a demographic have demonstrated an almost purely emotional and reactionary aversion to men’s attempts to address male disposability, marginalization, and legal disenfranchisement.

That women control the majority of discretionary spending and a small but real majority of the electorate means that women’s engagement with the human rights issues of men is a necessary component of resolving male disposability and marginalization. A demographic wide failure to respond other than by reactive emotionalism informs an alternative strategy in reaching women. A biologist does not reason with flatworms, rather – he steers their responses by modifying their environment.

The growing pathway of masculine self-actualization, in addition to benefitting men as individuals – has some significant potential to modify the political and economic environment in which public indifference to male exploitation and marginalization flourishes. As a courtesy to those few who might be moved to minimize the societal convulsion which might result, some specifics of these changes are explored here. It must be noted here, that women, taken as a subset of humanity currently operate under a few assumptions of rapidly diminishing relevance.

The first being that men, in their interactions with your female majesty are all enraptured by the prospect of access to the hole in the front of your lower torso. This is what men, as reproductively viable mammals are programmed to want, but the reductionist dogma of men as sex-obsessed troglodytes is the childish fantasy of feminine superiority reinforced in public zeitgeist. The reality is that “you’ve got the vagina, so you make the rules” is supremacist, infantile and no-longer to be tolerated bullshit.

For women, this bit of mythology is something to be abandoned, as growing numbers of men in the blue pill majority are rejecting their own expected male-as-manipulatable-lemming behavior. In the red-pill world of MGTOW, masculism, and Zeta-Male identity, men are increasingly unwilling to tolerate recitation of male-is-inferior mythology.

Regrettably, because much rhetoric opposing male human rights uses emotional rather than evidence based argument, some conclusions here might be redundant to logical thinkers. They have been listed here in spite of that hazard, because for those this is intended to enlighten, emotional reasoning will not have revealed these predicted outcomes. Some of you may be feminists, so I will type very slowly.

The hole in your lower torso which which bleeds every 28 days is of rapidly diminishing social or commercial value. This is not a new idea emerging exclusively within the men’s rights community. Naomi Wolf bemoaned the diminished market value of feminine orifices in her 2002 article “the porn myth”. What Wolf failed to grasp was that “young, hip, progressive feminists” continue to cling to the solipsistic view of the second wave, taken directly from Solanas: “Being an incomplete female, the male spends his life attempting to complete himself, to become female.“

Men’s failure to conform to this delusion provokes frustration and anger in those whose ideology informs the attempt to force conformity to their childish expectations rather than accept reality. Faced by a decades of blame, anger, manipulation and shame for failing to conform to “man-as-defective-woman,” men are, to state it mildly, weary of the ongoing abuse. Piled on top of this is that women are increasingly socialized to demonstrate violent, irrational, childish and openly sociopathic behavior, and we all go along with this as if it is normal.

All of this depends on men, for their part, allowing their self definition as “real men”, or as “good men” to rest on the judgement of women. The historical tendency of men to tolerate almost anything because positive self identity depended on valuation by women is rapidly waning. This is also why pussy’s market value is now at such a historical low. And it’s going to get worse. The recent phenomenon of slut-walk protests claiming among other things a positive cultural spin on the traditional criticism of the word slut is an expression of inability to understand having one’s cake and eating it. Widespread sluttism such as hook-up culture, cougar culture and other female driven casual sex means that sex, widely and easily available undermines women’s ability to manipulate men by controlling sexual access. Coupled with a feminine consumer culture in which young women have all the charm and wit of baboons, a feminine approved definition of male identity has rapidly diminishing currency.

What’s on offer is universally and freely available, but comes with grotesque entitlement, violent tendencies and, a broadly unpleasant demeanour. So thanks, but no thanks.

Western nations like Canada and the United States are, it must be admitted, coming late to the party. In Japan, an emerging model for male identity includes a growing majority of the male population. These men are called soushoku danshi[1], and are characterized by an indifference to social approval, an unwillingness to pursue women, and a rejection of self-destructive competition for status, high income or materialist consumer culture. And there’s a lot of them.

According to a 2009 slate.com article, “a consulting company that is a subsidiary of Dentsu, the country’s largest advertising agency, estimates that 60 percent of men in their early 20s and at least 42 percent of men aged 23 to 34 consider themselves soushoku danshi, which translates to grass-eating men.”

“Of the 1,000 single men in their 20s and 30s polled by Lifenet, a Japanese life-insurance company, 75 percent described themselves as grass-eating men”

Young men are deciding, en mass to avoid traditional romantic pursuit of women. This doesn’t mean they’re gay, or weak, its simply that they’ve decided that the quality of their own lives matters more to them than conforming to externally applied metrics of accepted male identity. The rise of this masculine model in japan has effects far beyond frustrating women who still wish men would compete for their attention, and pay for drinks, dinner, et-cetera. Japan’s soushoku danshi, in their indifference to traditional expectations are opting out of the corporate ladder and punishing career path of high status and high income, and in the process are collapsing the country’s economic growth. This is why japanese media uses perjorative and belittling language to describe these men, defining their own identity and self actualizing apart from their “allowed” role as disposable providers and protectors.

In fact, the Japanese media treat the  soushoku danshi identically to the way the media in the west has begun to treat MRA’s and MGTOW’s.

Yoto Hosho, a 22-year-old college dropout who considers himself and most of his friends herbivores, believes the term describes a diverse group of men who have no desire to live up to traditional social expectations in their relationships with women, their jobs, or anything else. “We don’t care at all what people think about how we live,” he says.

That indifference to approval or censure is shared now by a growing number of western men, variously identified as Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) or Zeta Males. These are paths to positive male self identity de-coupled from the popular shared view of what a real man is, a protector, provider and self sacrificing dispenser of money, labor and sperm.

The issue of sperm and it’s theft, and the monopoly of reproductive rights owned by women, with the power to legally compel males to finance female exercised reproductive rights is leading many western men to carefully avoid sex. This has been so thoroughly discussed in men’s rights writing that even mainstream media has now begun to cover the issue.

James Taranto, writing for the Wall Street Journal[2], correctly pointed out that young men are increasingly aware that in the event of a pregnancy, males have no legal rights, and of which increasing reportage shows women willing to sabotage condoms or lie about birth control to achieve. Men and boys are also aware that should a woman they sleep with become pregnant they will be committed to nearly 20 years of financial service. Piling onto this is the growing climate of blood-sport in false accusations of rape, sometimes concocted from post facto regret by a woman who participated in sex but decided after it had been a bad idea. In this legal and social climate, men in small but increasing numbers are quite sensibly avoiding women.

However, this is men in the majority, blue-pill average-guy population. This doesn’t include men electing a purposeful MGTOW or Zeta Male identity. For these men who’ve taken the red pill and read the commentary on sites like this one, or written their own, they are defining a growing movement in which feminine approval or censure is irrelevant.

In simplified terms, the standard female assumption that a vagina commands respect is going to lead many women to bad decisions. Sadly, because many men are not yet prepared to discard a woman-approved definition of self identity, there remain plenty of white knights as the social enforcers of female deference. Coupled with the treatment by emotionally reactive feminists of men opting out of their traditionally allowed servitor status – these men will likely be targeted by feminist zeitgeist as enemies of all decency, and attacked at their identity, and in many cases, by the proxy use of force through blue-pill men.

This is where the wake up call in this article aims to enlighten feminist and nominally non-feminist women alike. The use of such attacks to force male compliance will likely be treated with more than the indifference many red-pill men now default to. In fact, attacks on male identity and coercion are increasingly understood for the bigotry and hatred they express.

The forbearance of men, treating attacks on male identity with patience is coming to an end. This patience was based on the social acceptance of female-defined manhood, which as mentioned above is increasingly obsolete. The acceptance of feminine attack on male sexual identity has also been based on men’s wired in behavior to protect and accommodate women – but this masculine tendency is counter-productive in a culture which exempts women from personal accountability.

Recent discussions within the feminist blogging community have endorsed the practice of “creep shaming.” This is cultivation of social shame and ostracism in men based on the internal emotional state of whatever woman offers up that insult. Of course, this method of social control depends totally on the assumption that identity-based attacks will be accommodated because of a female-defined positive masculine identity, or male desire for access to the magic vagina. That which even Naomi Wolf noted in 2002 now no longer carries much exchange value. I strongly encourage feminists to embrace and escalate this tactic, because if adherents to a doctrine of class hatred and violence continue to clearly identify themselves, treating them with appropriate respect becomes nearly automatic.

That truism “you’ve got the pussy, so you make the rules” it turns out was not an absolute law. Obviously, you’ve still got the pussy, but now it seems you’ve fucked yourselves. The game you’ve so long controlled is no longer worth the candle.

[1] http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2009/06/the_herbivores_dilemma.html
[2] http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304444604577341862453090268.html


“The saying alludes to a game of cards in which the stakes are smaller than the cost of burning a candle for light by which to play.”


“occupations […] so lacking in merit that it wasn’t worth the expense of a candle to create enough light to partake in them.”

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  • Skeptic

    Spot on JtO.
    When men stop defining themselves by female standards they really man up.
    When men stop chasing and paying for pussy in myriad ways, they increase our own self worth.

    • Darryl X

      Unfortunately, denying female (feminist) standards of “good man” or masulinity is NOT just a function of the man or his willing compliance with those standards. Imposition of those standards upon a man whether he complies voluntarily or not is institutionalized and he cannot avoid them. It is his past refusal to comply with those standard voluntarily which has inspired feminazis to institutionalize them and impose them upon him. Many men have no ability to “go their own way” because they “way” has been blocked. The exits to the edifice of feminism are closed. Resistance is futile; you will be assimilated.

      Remember Thomas Ball who died for our children.

  • Dazza

    Great article Jto.

    And the game is not worth the candle.

    Many women today are becoming so selfish to the extreme that they are like black holes, pretty much destroying everything in their path and only increasing in their destructiveness.

    Better to go your own way than to be destroyed by a toxic woman.

    • Darryl X

      Many men have no ability to “go their own way” because they “way” has been blocked.

      Unfortunately, denying female (feminist) standards of “good man” or masulinity is NOT just a function of the man or his willing compliance with those standards. Imposition of those standards upon a man whether he complies voluntarily or not is institutionalized and he cannot avoid them. It is his past refusal to comply with those standard voluntarily which has inspired feminazis to institutionalize them and impose them upon him. Many men have no ability to “go their own way” because they “way” has been blocked. The exits to the edifice of feminism are closed. Resistance is futile; you will be assimilated.

      Remember Thomas Ball who died for our children.

      • Dazza

        Darryl, resistance is not futile. The MRM is growing and there is much hope. Please remember all the times in history where people have battled against the odds and won. Men are brave, men are innovative and men are very good at finding solutions to highly complex problems. That is why we are such awesome inventors.

        I am sorry, but I am not one to shrink back from a battle. Feminism has waged a massive war against men, and I would still resist even if it was futile…but it’s not.

        • jms5762

          I tell my wife if shes nice to me I might give her some di k. If she dangles the pussy reward for some sort of compliance I tell her I can get it somewhere else cheaper. I also tell her I still have 2 hands. Fight fire with fire. Be a Dick. Play the asshole song by Dennis Leary for inspiration. Start routinely using foul language when she starts talking shit. Eventually she get conditioned to expect foul language when she gets that way and the undesirable behavior should diminish.

        • Europa Phoenix

          Yes, MRM is growing. It’s becoming a worldwide phenomenon :

          Il n’y a pas si longtemps, j’étais complètement conditionné par le matraquage féministe. Et puis, à force de côtoyer des femmes en vieillissant, j’ai découvert par moi-même la face sombre du monde dans lequel je vivais. Mon âme est devenue enfin prête à accepter un autre discours. Un discours que j’ai découvert sur internet, petit à petit, ici. J’ai avalé ma Pilule Rouge… elle avait un goût amer, mais elle m’a redonné la santé mentale qu’on m’avait enlevé étant enfant.

          See? You’ve got a French frog here ;-)

          • Grey Knight

            Bienvenu, monsier. Un plus homme est trés bien particulierment içi. Desolé, mon Français n’est pas parfait.

      • Stu

        I can see how you might think resistence is futile, especially given the time it’s taken for men to respond to all the crap feminism has and is dishing out. I know what you mean, they make marriage a crap dangerous deal for men, so men stop marrying and just live with a woman, so they make living together the same as marriage. Then men stop doing that and they make a long term relationship the same as marriage. Then men stop doing that and they will make casual relationships the same as marriage, and so on and so on. They also try to stop you finding women outside of the feminist shit holes we live in, and make casual sex dangerous. On it goes, for infinity. But there are things you haven’t taken into account. Each round of ramping up of the various man traps produces more male victims, and crosses the threshold of risk that yet more men are prepared to take. So the number of men disengaging grows and grows. There are also other factors that help us. Feminism can only exist, or should I say, only gain or maintain power, in a society that can afford it. Economically feminism costs a lot. It can only be sustained in a business as usual situation, lots of economic growth, lots of cheap credit available, lots of jobs for the girls, unproductive jobs mostly too……jobs that drain surplus resources and produce nothing….services that can be lived without, or done away with if need be. In a shrinking economy, recession, depression, where fat must be trimmed, they are in big trouble. Well good news is coming, western economies are toast, they are on life support as we speak. It’s a matter of time, not very long, until feminism gets put on a strict diet, one that gets worse and worse every year. These coming economic conditions will also repell more men, and increase their aversion to the risk of marriage, or any relationship that can carry any weight. On the other hand, many more women will be desperately seeking Mr Right, and settling for whoever they can get. We are going to be facing some really hard times, but the silver lining is the the MRM will grow, and feminism will shrink.

      • Darryl X

        @ Dazza and Stu –

        “The MRM is growing and there is much hope.”

        “…and I would still resist even if it was futile…but it’s not.”

        “But there are things you haven’t taken into account. Each round of ramping up of the various man traps produces more male victims, and crosses the threshold of risk that yet more men are prepared to take.”

        “There are also other factors that help us. Feminism can only exist, or should I say, only gain or maintain power, in a society that can afford it. Economically feminism costs a lot.”

        *** I agree with these sentiments above (except maybe for the part about “Feminism can only exist… in a society that can afford it”. ***

        “There are also other factors that help us. Feminism can only exist, or should I say, only gain or maintain power, in a society that can afford it. Economically feminism costs a lot.”

        *** I also agree with this sentiment. However, the problem is that the economies of the world, no matter how dysfunctional and inefficient and corrupt, can and will be sustained by sacrificing the lives and livelihoods of men. There will always be enough men and children to sacrifice.

        For instance, our feminist governments can and will always steal the wealth and survivability from a man and exchange it for political power with a woman (ie child support).

        A man can go his own way only so long as he has the means and then he dies on the street or in prison. Some men have more resources than others and can survive longer. And the economies of the various countries are imposing ever more on those men and transferring their life-lines to women.

        Even the option of exile to another country has become virtually impossible with the cost of living overseas anymore and with the aggressive and liberal and irrational suspension of passports in countries like the US and with other countries actively cooperating with countries like the US to exterminate those men.

        It’s one thing to underestimate the intelligence and resourcefulness and innovation of men (there are limits to those) but it’s just as easy to underestimate the number of men that can be exterminated or enslaved and the extremes to which governments and women will go to sacrifice the lives of those men.

        A couple decades ago, suspending passports and seizing a man’s social security (his only lifeline in retirement and old age when he can no longer work) was incomprehensible. Today, those mechansims are institutionalized and applied routinely. Death of men has been institutionalized. That’s why I have written before that our governments are exterminating men. Dead men can’t object to their own destruction. And seldom does anyone object for them.

        Although support for our cause has grown considerably in recent years, I’m disappointed it has not grown more. We will always be a minority because there are too many people who profit from the extermination of men. And our governments have become too opportunistic and predatory and very inventive in the ways they may exploit men and children.

        The Revolutionary War was only supported by approximately 17% of men. It was supported neither by women nor most men. I don’t see something like that happening here. I’m afraid that there will always be enough men to sacrifice; enough men from whom wealth can be transferred to sustain a bad economy on life-support. And enough people to enable this dynamic. Especially without a revolution.

        I think about men like Thomas Ball a lot (and there are many – millions). He just got to a point where the quality of his life had been and would be for the indefinite and foreseeable future so miserable that dying was the best option. Had he not killed himself, the government would have done it for him.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

          “A man can go his own way only so long as he has the means and then he dies on the street or in prison. ”

          MGTOW is not about giving up on life, it is about choice.You think the crackhead on the street is an MGTOW?
          If the crackhead on the street was an MGTOW to start with he would not be the crackhead on the street.

          There is no one set template for MGTOW. That is the point of Men Going Their Own Way, not MGTSW – Men Going The Same Way – you describe MGTSW not MGTOW.

          The MRM is about throwing out the cookie cutter (MGTSW) template, and destroying social proof, what you seem to suggest is we either stay tethered to the misandric poison of the current template, sperm doner and shiny success object for some chick, or we all end up the the gutter, that is the blue pill two dimensional group think that got us to this point in the first place.

          Men and boys need not just three dimensional thinking but forth!

          The MGTOW can be the rich guy driving the new Mercedes-Benz SMS AMG or the guy with the 20 year old Toyota – still the same thing.You can’t spot an MGTOW by how much he earns or what assets he has, you have to communicate with him and find out his reasons behind his life choices.

          Many might want to climb the corporate ladder and make some good money, but will choose to avoid women.

          MGTOW is about that choice and many other choices.

          • Stu

            I think what Darryl is saying is that they impose increasingly draconian laws to the point that you can’t go anyway except their way. You won’t have any way of traveling, working, buying anything……the number of the beast…..receive the mangina stamp or perish. Effectively slavery…..good slaves get some perks……bad slaves get jail and execution.

            The thing is Darryl, men in jail don’t pay taxes, they consume resources, they also require more infrastructure, and more men to police them, more men consuming resources and not producing anything. And if things have gotten so crappy for men, a feminist dystopia, how will they keep all those cops, and wardens, and soldiers in line. They are relying on men to oppress men. That can not work beyond a certain percentage of the population.

            Dead men don’t produce anything, or pay taxes. A mghow is still contributing a lot more to society than either a man in jail, who is net drain on resources, or a dead man who produces nothing.

            We, the west, have built a standard of living and infrastructure and high technology society because of the concept of free men, being able to better there own lives, and acquire wealth though voluntary work, and reaping the rewards of their own efforts. It will collapse without both men being free, and men being able to benefit themselves by playing ball. It is collapsing now, as we speak. If women don’t want to be living in a third world shit hole and corrupt police state in 20 years, they better get on board the MRM and start rejecting feminism. I figure a large enough amount of women is smart enough to see that feminism is killing the goose that layed the golden egg, even if they don’t care what happens to men for men’s sake.

          • Darryl X

            “I think what Darryl is saying is that they impose increasingly draconian laws to the point that you can’t go anyway except their way.”

            That’s what I’m saying.

            “…what you seem to suggest is we either stay tethered to the misandric poison of the current template, sperm doner and shiny success object for some chick, or we all end up the the gutter.”

            Yes. Something like that. The only option is the gutter. Health care costs money (and so does everything else). Without it, we die in pain on the street. In the US, a law has been passed recently that requires a man to buy health insurance or else he will be fined ridiculous amounts of money and then imprisoned if he doesn’t pay (from what I can tell, women are pretty much exempt from any of this law and their health care is free but that’s a topic for another thread). But the federal gov’t will subsidize your health insurance if you are poor. Great. Except if you owe child support. Then the gov’t won’t subsidize your health insurance and since you can’t afford it then you will go to prison. See how nicely that works. Men who owe child support are exempt from ALL public assistance. And they are also not allowed to have jobs (driver license suspension, rules that prevent hiring someone who owes child support, passport suspension, etc…). They have been exempt from society. Can’t live on 5% of a paycheck, unless its a real big paycheck.

          • Stu


            I didn’t realize that the compulsory health insurance laws were for men only. Well, that proves it doesn’t it….we pay the health care for women, and they get the service.

            I realize that all the things you have outlined and many more draconian laws mean that many men are fucked with no options, and jail is their destiny, or death. But jail means they will be a cost to the state, death means they will not be available to extract any taxes, health insurance premiums, labor, or any other benefits for women, or the government. They will have themselves between a rock and a hard place if they lock up to many men, or kill them off, or let them die……because as much as the uneducated take everything around us for granted, and think that money is wealth, the fact is that it is men that build, maintain our society. They will have to replace men…..from where….no man in his right mind is going to want to go and live in such a country……unless he comes from a third world shit hole…..and thus….will be from a culture that despises feminism…….I recommend muslims myself lol. This doesn’t bod well for their future either as they import more and more people who are hostile to feminism.

            I’m not saying we aren’t going to go through some really hard times, we will. But the road they are on leads over a cliff. In the end it will be those that supported this crap that are in the jails.

            Also, you have to realize that for each man they treat this way, they make several enemies. That man’s brothers, father, son’s, close friends, and that doesn’t even count the women that will be horrified by these draconian laws used against their loved ones, mothers, sisters, lovers, etc. They are accumulating enemies faster and faster as they go. Many of these enemies don’t know about the MRM, they sit at home, brooding and full of hate and bitterness, and turn against society.

            It can’t go on beyond a point. Even if it goes on until every cop, every soldier, every politician, and more importantly, every woman, has male family and friends fed through this meat grinder, the end result will be that those that have enacted these laws will be hated and despised and have nowhere to hide or run.

          • Darryl X

            @Stu –

            As with all things legal, the law concerning health care isn’t black and white regulating men’s access to it only and not women. But it does create so many options for women from which men are exempt that a more than significant part of the female population has access to health benefits at the exclusion of men. I have heard no debate about these; only the contraception debacle/debate.

            I think most men do not understand the implications of this health care law for themselves or their children or their marriages (if they are married). It basically promotes family decimation as if there are not enough laws to do that already.

            Most people do not think too far ahead about such legislation and when the consequences are finally visited upon them they act as if they were blindsided when men like me predicted it years in advance.

            I’m all for socialized medicine as health care is not a commodity subject to the laws of supply and demand. Everyone needs health care at some point in time in their lives – some more than others. And it seldom has anything to do with lifestyle or choices.

            If you are dying in a hospital and a procedure will save you, the providers can charge anything they want. No supply and demand there. Either you get the procedure or you’re dead.

            However, what we have developing in the US, unlike in Europe or Australia or New Zealand or Canada, isn’t socialized medicine but fascist medicine. The government is predetermining who will live and who will die based upon their financial or economic status and political support or affiliation.

            It is truly draconian. And since it targets men particularly for death, it is a Nazi-style extermination. Just using our dysfunctional system of health care instead of ovens. Most people in the US are simply too stupid too understand its implications.

            Never ask a malignant narcissist for help. You don’t want them to help you. Their help is a deal with the devil. And it always cost you more than the help is worth.

            When people in our country approached their government(s) for a socialized health care system (like Canada or Australia), no one really understood just how corrupt and dysfunctional and evil our government is and didn’t (and for the most part still don’t) understand what they are getting. They literally signed away their souls.

            “I’m not saying we aren’t going to go through some really hard times, we will.”

            I just had this very thought when I read it in your post. Yes, a great number of men are going to endure considerable hardship before anything changes. Many already have. Many will not survive it. The war on men during the past forty-plus years has seen many casualties.

          • Susan Clarke

            I wrote a whole three paragraphs, and it’s blank. Can I remember what I wrote?
            I never understood when people told me that females make the rules. It always seemed to me that the men made the rules, and I never had a chance to make any rules, because I had so many rules to follow. Also, I remember being told to put a price on myself, which to me was baffling, ‘would that be prostitution?’ When I learned about AIDS, I knew that something worse could come from unprotected sex than an unwanted baby. I thought it was important to find out how one could find out for sure that someone did not have HIV so it would be possible to have a baby. It still doesn’t seem possible to earn enough money to pay for things that a baby needs. Also, don’t people like going to movies and dancing and to shows and events like sports events and concerts? I turned down the first invitation to a date because it was Dutch treat, and I thought I was not allowed to pay for my ticket. That was probably the only person I knew whose driving I would feel safe with being a passenger. Well, maybe I can think of two others whose driving I would have felt safe with. No, I can think of a third.

          • The Watcher

            @ Stu

            “The thing is Darryl, men in jail don’t pay taxes, they consume resources, they also require more infrastructure, and more men to police them, more men consuming resources and not producing anything.”

            You might wish to acquaint yourself with the prison industrial complex that is thriving in the USA. Slave labor is not dead.
            The above article is a good place to start.

            The more men that are sent to prison, the more cheap labor is available for exploitation. This huge and growing problem disproportionately affects men. Just refusing to play the game is no loner enough when they can arrest you on some lame charge or another and conscript you into the workforce.

  • http://commonmanmedia.blogspot.com TCM

    Her: “I have the pussy, I make the rules.”

    You: “I have the dick, I fuck the rules.”

    That’s how you take care of that bs. Go your own way.

    • Darryl X

      Many men have no ability to “go their own way” because they “way” has been blocked. Often the only way left for them to go is their own death. Remember Thomas Ball who died for our children.

  • http://none j24601

    “I have the pussy, I make the rules”


  • Grey Knight

    I love how the soushoku danshi, MGTOW and Zeta males have a resemblance to anarchy. It will undoubtedly affect economies worldwide and feminists will have to escalate the blame game to an obviously ridiculous capacity. Everyone and their dog will notice it and the backlash will be awesome.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

    The statistics regarding the Grass-eaters is pretty awesome. I had no idea of such numbers as those in your write.

    No pun intended, but does this mean that from a grass roots level we are seeing a gathering of sheer discord that has only two ways to go: Upwards and outwards ?

    If this is the case then good luck to the MSM trying to keep that one under pink wraps. Well, they are for now and I wonder for how long ? It’s the same as an asteroid impact when the question is not “if” but “when.”

    What is their motivation for silencing this movement ? We must ask this question always. Is it fear perhaps ? Is that what it is that has them gagging themselves ?

    I think it is fear. I think they have looked at this bothersome Grass-Eaters movement and have nodded to all suits at the CEO tables that “…best we shut up for now as it might give blokes ideas.”

    Well the thing is is that there is a little ole’ somethin’ called the i n t e r n e t .

    Now that’s a right royal pain in the bum my goodness gracious me.

    Thank you for the internet all you blokes out there with your nerdy ways and your colour coded pens in your shirt pockets. Every single MRA adores you to bits for it.

    Right now I am on this internet thingy and in a few moments after this post I’ll be reading up about “Grass-Eaters” all the more. I mean why not, as I have two feet from my face access to the biggest library in the known universe, as do you the reader of this post.

    I tell you this Mr JTO, Atlas hasn’t shrugged as yet but I can attest to the fact that his back is getting itchy.

    • Steve_85

      “I tell you this Mr JTO, Atlas hasn’t shrugged as yet but I can attest to the fact that his back is getting itchy.”

      Quite possibly the quote of the week :)

  • Steve_85

    Great article Mr. JtO, as usual. I’ll tell you something you older folks might be missing:

    The young guys in western countries are wising up. Not as many as in Japan, but we’re figuring it out as well. What amuses me is that no one seems to be noticing. Well I am. I’m noticing it more and more.

    I was overhearing a conversation in a lecture yesterday, where one guy was telling his friend that he was going to propose to his girl friend. The friend mentioned the words man-trap and then explained why. By the end of that conversation, the first guy had abandoned any ideas of buying rings and I had a massive grin on my face.

    Those were guys straight out of school. Most of the guys my age (mid-late 20s) don’t seem to care, the older guys don’t believe it, but the younger guys… they get it.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

      This may well be the post of the month. Are you telling of the shape of things to come ?

      “….the younger guys… they get it.”

      Amazing vinaigrette, ta mate.

      • Steve_85

        I’m not making any predictions, simply noting an increasing trend. I personally think the shit will hit the fan because of economic factors long before misandry becomes a strong motivator. Which sucks because even though feminism is the root cause of such a collapse, it isn’t directly responsible and as we all know it’s easy to miss or ignore it. What’s worse is that it gives our invisible feminist overlords another thing to blame patriarchy for.

        Instead of having a clear, easy to see problem (feminism) that can be fixed, we will most likely have fingers being pointed everywhere except where the true problem lies.

        I hope I’m wrong.

        • Darryl X

          Unfortunately, I think you’re right. The fundamental problem is misandry and the condemnation of what men stand for – responsibility. Our economic problems are just one important symptom of misandry (feminism). Addressing this one symptom is like putting a bandaid over the stump of your leg which was cut off by a chainsaw.

        • Stu

          You have insight, that’s for sure. And you are right. And this is also happening right now. It’s going on as we speak. The economies grinding to a halt and unable to get back on their feet, because of things like consumerism, over consumption and under production (feminism). The massive amounts of people employed in bogus unproductive jobs, government expansion, etc (feminism) Bogus industries that consume much, and produce nothing or “anti industries” like the abuse industry, who’s sole purpose is to grow, and consume, and transfer wealth from productive people, to themselves, serving mostly women, employing mostly women, attacking mostly men.

          But no, the reason for the failing economies and businesses and banks isn’t because of things like, affirmative action, being forced to provide jobs for unproductive people, being forced to supply credit and loans for people who can’t balance their checking accounts, or live within their means, or save…….the reason is……..testosterone…..and the answer is……more feminization……and more misandry.

          Yeah they will point fingers at everything else, but as long as they do that, they won’t solve the problems, and eventually their bullshit will have to be abandoned or total collapse will be realized, then all we will be fighting about is who gets to eat the neighbors dog, or even the neighbor.

    • Paul Elam

      Yep, they get it alright. And the kicker is that they likely have never heard of the MRM. They just have eyes and can see the world around them.

      We are not really the enemy of feminism and other forms of female privilege. Feminism and female privilege, by their very nature, are their own worst enemies.

      Young men will vote with their feet, and have begun to. No one had to campaign for their attention.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

        Yes I find the young guys really get it.
        I still aim in my offline activism at them. Many get it but they need a website like this, as a safe haven or “I get it male friendly space” to actually know they are not alone, that it is ok and they are not crazy.

      • Zarathos022

        Best news I’ve heard all day, Mr. Elam.

        BTW, thanks for responding to my message about the “What Men Are Saying About Women” blog and The Spearhead.

    • LJ

      Droves of young men are growing up with limited our non-existent fathers. All of us here know women are half the reason. These younger men, some have to learn the hard way, but they get it. Being in my 30’s, I watch them, talk with them, heck, I’m still one of them, there is an instinct. The MRM confirms that instinct, which is an invaluable necessity.
      Men need male guidance. It is unfortunate that men have been restricted in our society. After being manipulated, emotionally abused or physically assaulted once or twice and seeing societies reaction, these guys wise up quick.
      Speak your mind when you are out in the world young men. Take no shame, reject female hypocrisy and, let them know their hole is just that, empty.

      • Darryl X

        Or worse. They are growing up with men who are not their real fathers and who promote the feminazi mentality and the irrational condemnation of their real fathers by their mothers.

        Lots of women I know are divorced and have custody of and live with their children and have boyfriends or step-fathers. These “other men” actively enable the pathology of the mothers and promote alienation of the children from their own real fathers.

        In return for their loyalty, the mothers give the step-fathers copious amounts of sex and share the child support. And it doesn’t cost the mother or her boyfriend a cent because the real father pays them to commit adultery, pays them to defraud him. Pays them to separate his own children from him. How insane is that?

        I hope all these children grow up learning the truth that these two people defrauded them and kept their fathers away from them.

        A younger fellow I know recently spoke of his real father with contempt and explained that his “step-dad” raised him. I was appalled at the hostility he directed at his own real father. His father wasn’t around. Of course a couple of us guys listened to this and started grilling him about his life and his family and his mother and his father and from everything he told us it was a classic story of parental alienation where this guy’s real father was driven from his own family and house and replaced with another man and the real father had to pay for it all himself.

        And yet this young man, with all this knowledge about what really happened (he was in his mid-20’s) still harbored such incredible resentment for his own real father whom he hadn’t seen in ages and it wasn’t even his real father’s fault.

        I condemned his attitude toward his real father and advised him to redirect that attitude toward his mother and step-dad who defrauded his real father and him for that matter. Then I told him that if I were his real father that I wouldn’t want to be around a son like him, with such screwed up perception of reality.

        Even knowing the truth this young man still was so brainwashed that he continued to hate his own real father. That is how strong the conditioning is. The brainwashing. Even in the face of the glaring and unarguable truth, these young people still hate their own real fathers.

        At one time I had hoped my own children would grow up and learn the truth and then maybe have a little more respect for me. Appreciate all the sacrifices I made for them. And yes openly condemn and maybe punish with a lawsuit their own mothers and step-fathers. But I think the prospects of that are small given my recent experience with this young man and others. Their perception of reality is so screwed up.

  • keyster

    I think you’re being too hard on the ladies. You’re assuming they’ll spontaneously transcend their innate perceptions of manhood, outside of a feminine context.

    Ain’t gonna happen.

    Young men aren’t half as affected by female shaming tactics as they are judgment by other men. If you’re not sharing in the “Brotherhood of the Ol’ Ball and Chain”, you’re not a REAL MAN to most men. IOW if you’re not putting up with a woman’s shit somewhere, you’re not in the “club”.

    To most men this is as key to the Male Experience as playing sports or belching loudly. If you present yourself as one without vaginal access, you’re automatically knocked down several rungs in the MAN social heirarchy. It’s a combination of suspician, resentment and envy that drives this “judgement”. You’re not completely “paying your dues” as a man if you’re not mated. It’s a box that’s not checked. You’re not “complete”.

    Women are always judging, scrutinizing and shaming men by default. What really hurts is when other men do it. Their isn’t as much “man pressure” as there used to be, but it’s still prevelant enough to scare the shit out of a young man. Women are more sympathetic to single men than other men IMHO,…and who cares what they think anyway?

    It’s other men that hire you and promote you and accept you into their sphere of influence, not women.

    Likes sports – check
    Drinks beer – check
    Has woman – check

    Men who are “unoccompanied” are discriminated against and shunned, by OTHER MEN.

    • Mr. J

      Funny thng occurred to me with that, Keyster………..my entire life, I’ve always told those “other men” to GO TO HELL in my mind, maybe thats why I’ve never had a decent “job”… hehehehe
      **F** THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Ethical

      “females are neither socialized to acquire, nor often demonstrate any empathy”

      “Men must reject both their socially conditioned model for being “good men” as well as learning a healthy contempt for collective approval”.

      “That indifference to approval or censure is shared now by a growing number of western men, variously identified as Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) or Zeta Males”.

      Great points. I agree with both you and keyster on this one. I agree when keyster says men admire other men who get pussy. I’d add that women control who gets it, but it’s my gut feeling that the increasing number of young men effectively opting out from the mating game are defacto MGTOWs. So I agree with John that these young men are evaluating themselves by other criteria since they’re not as much in the “mating game”.

      “Grass Eaters”? “Defacto MGTOWs”. I hear it everywhere in young men these days. They’re enjoying it all rather than sacrificing everything to win. They’ve always played by the gender rules they’ve been stuck with but they’ve seen the contradictions and they know the rules are rigged against them. Increasingly they’re disconnected from the game.

      Today’s thirteen year old girls will be looking for marriage partners in less than twenty years. With all the above huge demographic shifts are in the works. The next generation will see unprecedented changes.

    • LJ

      Keyster, where does he get these wonderful comments.
      “You’re assuming they’ll spontaneously transcend their innate perceptions of manhood, outside of a feminine context.”

      but some of it throws me “Women are always judging, scrutinizing and shaming men by default. What really hurts is when other men do it.”
      Men put each other down all the time. Hell, we do it for fun (yo mamma!).

      “It’s other men that hire you and promote you and accept you into their sphere of influence, not women.”
      One of my favorite bosses was a gay man. In the below 30 group, women are out earning men. That may be, or might have been, true but, it will not be for long. I know your going at the “men are their own worst enemies line” here but, it really is both sexes creating this environment, IMHO. Maybe GWW, TyphonBlue, Izzey or the “real women” that visit, would have feedback on that?

      • keyster

        “Men put each other down all the time.”

        Not like that we don’t.
        There are certian things that men don’t give other men shit about – – at risk of a physical response. We all know what those things are.

        “I know your going at the “men are their own worst enemies line…””.

        It’s generational. There still exists an “old guard” of men that believe other men who are not coupled are somehow defective — because if a woman won’t have him, something is wrong. It’s a glass ceiling for men in Encorpera, believe me.

        From a scene in The Departed, Matt Damon and Alec Baldwin, protege and mentor:

        Ellerby: How is your wedding coming along?

        Colin Sullivan: Great, great; she’s a doctor.

        Ellerby: That’s outstanding.

        Colin Sullivan: Yeah.

        Ellerby: Marriage is an important part of getting ahead: lets people know you’re not a homo; married guy seems more stable; people see the ring, they think at least somebody can stand the son of a bitch; ladies see the ring, they know immediately you must have some cash or your cock must work. [laughs]

        Colin Sullivan: [laughing] Yeah, it’s working… Overtime!

        Ellerby: I’m glad to hear that.

        Colin Sullivan: Yeah… Thank you.

        This dynamic is VERY true among men of influence in macho professions. It’s rampant among the executive elites, politicians, etc. It’s part of the gauntlet you run to get into the boys club. It’s the “hot wives club” at work. Those are the guys that are at least given a shot.

        Announce that you’re a commited MGTOW to the guys at work, and you might as well just say, “I’m attracted to smooth young asian boys too!”

  • Kimski

    “Being an incomplete female, the male spends his life attempting to complete himself, to become female.“

    This statement is all you need to define projection. It could only be written if you completely ignore the behavior and obvious penis envy of millions of women around the globe. I have yet to meet a guy who wants to bleed for a week every 28 days for 25-30 years.
    Just when you think you’ve heard it all..

    Outstanding piece of work, JtO.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

      “Being an incomplete female, the male spends his life attempting to complete himself, to become female.“

      Damn I better buy 100 more pairs of shoes.Shoes designed and built by a bunch incomplete females…men.

      I forgot how full of shit feminists are.Explains why so many have done – or been done by – gender studies with a small amount of journalism, English lit or so called education as a deceptive cover for the fem-brainwashing.Don’t think you are feminist!

  • prometheus1666

    I was never part of that “club” either, I just never understood why some men would put up with slave driving wives, work 2 jobs, never really see their kids so she could basically sit around and do nothing, get off of the hamster wheel you idiot!!

  • by_the_sword

    Looks like the man-slaves are running off the plantation.

  • LJ

    JtO, this is one of your best!

  • http://counterfem.blogspot.com Fidelbogen

    All the more reason to break off political kinship with the PUA stink-bug.

    They’ll do for allies at the last ditch, perhaps. But apart from that . . . away with them!

  • Zarathos022

    MGTOW- Having fucktons of fun living their lives for no one.

    Another article that’s full to bursting with win from JtO.

    • http://counterfem.blogspot.com Fidelbogen

      Sly irony?

      • Zarathos022

        Well, no one else except themselves, rather. What I was saying was that they are living their lives according to their own terms without the approval of society (women or otherwise). And hopefully having fucktons of fun in the process like I said.

  • Malestrom

    I’ve never heard that maxim explicitly stated before, ”i have the pussy so I make the rules”, but it immediately struck me that the correct response would be; ”but you dont have the only one”.

  • Skeptic

    I’ve found an interesting thing has happened since I made the (conscious) decision a few years ago to eschew close relations with women as too risky in these feminist times to be worth the effort, and instead intensify my involvement in the Men’s Right Movement.
    Gradually as I let women slide to a peripheral position, I noticed my relationships with other guys deepened without much effort. It’s just been a natural process whereby being a social creature I’ve still wanted company and mixed and mingled.
    I didn’t get ANY heat from other guys about taking that position either. As illustration I recall a while back in my first ever staff meeting as a newly hired teacher being asked by the school Principal in front of the entire school staff if I was married. I coolly and defiantly answered “I’m not comfortable with that question”. It was HE who then apologized on the spot in front to everyone for being quote – “old fashioned”. There was a buzz in the air at this, and a definite recasting of the school zeitgeist.
    On another occasion I found myself in Japan in the company of a Welsh guy and Australian woman in a small city where Westerners were very few and far between. We were all in the same boat – just visiting for a few days to get a visa application done, so there was a distinct sense of ‘let’s stick together to pool our brains and figure all this strangeness out’.
    The Ozfem casually, like it was nothing at all, let slip some outrageous bit of femspeak about Japanese culture being patriarchal …blah…blah….blah….
    So I asked her point blank if she was a feminist, to which she nonchalantly replied “Yeah, sure”……..
    at which point I told her I didn’t want her company.
    Ashen faced and visibly shaking she asked why and I calmly told her
    “For the same reason that Jews don’t hang out with Nazis”. This left her even more stunned.
    I’ll never forget her sunken face and her dwindled body language as she stood rooted to the spot realizing she was all alone as the Welsh guy and I sauntered off leaving her without the male protection she expected.
    It was another seminal moment when I realized the immense power of social rejection and how very much humans being the deeply innate social creatures we are fear ostracism.

    I put these matters out here because I recall a period after deciding to be a Man Going His Own Way (although I didn’t have those words to describe it) of feeling quite isolated, lonely and vulnerable offline.
    My message therefore to heterosexual men who are considering doing similar and Going Their Own Way is to have some patience and understand you WILL break out of the isolation from other men that you may have created by competing with other men for pussy thus only having superficial relations with other guys………. and the reward will be a sense of brotherhood and camaraderie you’ll enjoy immensely.
    You’ll no longer need so much to maintain ‘cool’ and appear always strong to meet the internalized female mandate which you shared unconsciously with other hetero guys to be so detached from yourself and other guys and so focused on pleasing women……….
    and you’ll feel, well, more human.
    Hell, if you’ve been using numbing activities such as overwork and/or substances to keep the lid on it all you’ll feel again period.
    To any guys who heed this advice from someone who’s been there – welcome to a WHOLE new ballgame brother.

    For those who haven’t read it yet here’s a link to a free downloadable PDF book which fits with JtOs all too often correct assertion of ‘I have the pussy so I make the rules’ Its called ‘If Men have all the power, how come women make the rules?’ by Jack Kammer – a classic well worth reading!


    • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

      Thank you, Skeptic.
      Cheers Brother

    • Darryl X

      Wow. Truly inspiring story. Mind if I borrow that anecdote? About the Welsh and the Ozfem. It fits really well into a story I’m writing.

      • Skeptic

        Sure. Use the story. Go for it.

  • andybob

    “Some of you may be feminists, so I will type very slowly.” Mr JTO

    This article is classic JTO. It is richly layered with a variety of effortlessly integrated points delivered with a wit which is scathing and elegant all at once. Can anyone imagine a belligerent feminist trying to compete with this? Feminist invective has never evolved beyond the kind of lazy and hysterical peevishness which characterizes this little gem:

    “Being an incomplete female, the male spends his life attempting to complete himself, to become female“. Valerie Solanas

    Yesterday, I saw a remarkable example of Naomi Wolf’s “diminished market value of female orifices” while commuting on a train. I inadvertently sat on the same seat as a woman who was having a very animated conversation with what I assumed was her university professor. She was one of those peroxided, fake-tanned 40-something women who dress like their 16 year-old daughters. She had on low-rise jeans, a sequined top and a pink, blingy handbag. British accent, possibly northern.

    [I promise, hand-on-heart, that this woman was studying…Drama.]

    She was attempting to coerce the professor into giving her some kind of extension on a drama assignment. In a loud, gravelly voice that can only be achieved by a 3 pack-a-day habit, she began by using her well-worn charms. “Oh go on, Jason [first names with the prof?], please!” She then progressed to trying to get sympathy. “Things haven’t been going well lately.” Then came a few excuses, “I didn’t understand my assignment. I have been sooo busy”. Then came guilt (accompanied by some pouting), “My holiday wasn’t as long as yours.” Then, to my total astonishment, came an offer of a bribe. “I’ll give you $300”. All this was overheard by the entire carriage – she probably scored an ‘A’ for voice projection.

    Finally, when all of her feminine wiles had been exhausted, she started to get nasty and accusatory, “You’ve made things so difficult for me.” Then came appeals to a higher force, “I’m going to complain about your curriculum”. She violently banged the seat beside her when she said this He must have finally hung up on her. Out came her iPad on which she was furiously pounding some kind of message/complaint. Someone called in the middle of this and she said, “Can’t talk now. I’m writing to Jason”.

    My heart sank for Professor Jason. Was she making good on her threat? Was she paving the way for some kind of false accusation? All of this occurred in the space of about nine minutes. I was stunned by the breathtaking speed in which the flirty act devolved into demonic anger as she contemplated the range of options available to her to inflict revenge on her professor – all because she was too lazy to do an assignment on time. Professor Jason must feel like he is walking on a minefield. His classes must be crammed full of entitled women.

    I see lots of women like her – angry harridans embittered that life is no longer the all-expenses-paid free ride they have always known. Feminism gives these women the power to exact revenge on those bastard men who just don’t appreciate the finer points of mature pussy. Her type will never be reasoned with. Women like her have as much interest in fairness towards men as I have in learning macramé. Avoid them at all costs. Go your own way gentlemen.

    Keep up the quality writing Mr JTO. This is superb.

    • Stu

      You should have took her picture, in case she appears in the latest headlines accusing her prof of rape.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

        Stu – I sent you and Karma an email.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

    Mr Andrew Roberto,

    This is pretty funny but deeply necrotic of all things decent,- kindness, fairness, respect, patience, manners and so on.

    In this way we are hearing of some “Neo-Shakespearean” tragedy. And you saw it mate and I have just one question for you.

    Next time something like this chances your way can you please film it ? Not for you Mr Roberto, but as a MRA guide for Dummies for the fresh crop of red pillarians, and it may be in a chapter called something like, “Beware. 9 angles in 9 minutes. A Showcase. – Vol 3, Example, 34.”

    • andybob

      Wouldn’t that have been great? I was dumbstruck by her complete shamelessness. It was like she was reading from a script titled, “The Gamut of Female Manipulation for the Over-40’s”. You’re right, she attempted to work every angle and made each of them sound plausible.

      This sounds ridiculous, but I had an overwhelming urge to confiscate her iPhone and iPad and tell her that men didn’t invent this technology for women to create mischief. She was some piece of work who probably has some poor beta she despises paying for her to fulfil her drama degree delusions. I’m so glad I’m gay.

      • BlueBlood

        That would have made for some pretty compulsive viewing, mate.

        A: Feminism has given you all the priveleges and entitlements known to humankind – how do you intend to use this responsibility to help the world?
        B: RESPONSIBILITY? Thats for men. Fuck me, how far behind times are you?!?

  • Rad

    I’ve found that the shoshoku-styled men are the easiest kind to make friends with here in Japan.

    Though there is no desire for a ladder career, I find that they have more professional attitudes about their work than most other Japanese men.

    I have never seen a shoshoku asleep in the back room or at his desk, or in a co-worker’s conveniently tinted van in the parking lot. But I have seen the old guard doing this on many occasions.

    Shoshoku danshi seem to come about their attitude more honestly because they do not internally resent what they are doing for a living. There is no desire to “steal a moment”, no incentive to cut corners or indulge in fake aizuchi behavior, because they are where they want to be. They haven’t weighed their life down by living the culture’s duty model. Only those with a desire to escape feel the need to do these things.

    You can find many shoshoku danshi working in 7/11’s. They all have very comforting presences. Moreso than female employees. Though that may be a projection on my part having grown up in the West.

    Anyway, I have been working on an essay on this topic for awhile, but I lack the requisite knowledge to finish it at this time.

  • BlueBlood


    This is not really a reply but a mini post. I don`t quite have the material yet for an article submission.

    I`m still not sure that the `Grass Eaters` – `Soushoku Danshi – probably more accurately translated as `Leaf eaters,` but that`s a pedant talking – actually exist. As I`ve said before, I have extensive experience in Japan, and what I see is couples not forming. I have spoken to numerous random people and it doesn`t seem to be any form of `MGTOW,` but more of `I have enough porn to get by.` The distinction may be lost, but it`s important. They are not turning their back for the same reason we are, and it`s a big mistake to quote them and assume them as allies.

    They do not give a rats arse for our cause. They love their face creams, tight jeans, and multi media entertainment.

    They are anti `the previous salari-man culture,` and its a mistake to believe they ever did it for a woman; it was for the Emperor.

    OT: Lest we forget the tens of thousands of men who died in WW1. Not to mention the 0 Anzac women who were raped at Gallipoli. The feminist attempt to hijack Anzac Day makes me sick to the core.


    • tallwheel

      I’m an American in Japan here for 10 years, and my opinion tends to be similar to yours, BlueBlood. I’m not sure soushoku danshi are turning the back for the same reason as MGTOW, or for the reasons that the MRA wants to see them as. I see the phenomenon being related primarily to two things: 1. economic conditions, and 2. a generally more feminine upbringing of most males in recent decades.

      As for 2., I have a suspicion that there are a lot of men who want pussy, but just don’t know how to get it. They’ve been raised to be non-aggressive and aren’t good at taking action toward women, and they are also terrified of rejection, because female approval is considered just as important in Japan (if not more so) than in the West. On the Japanese wikipedia page about soshoku danshi there is a quote from Masahiro Morioka which is not on the English page that says basically, “…they are men who are afraid of getting hurt, and hurting other people”.

      1. Is more straightforward, and one of the same causes as MGTOW. While it used to be expected that a man would work for one company his entire life and be paid more than enough to support a family, men today are finding it harder to obtain such a job in the first place, and even if they do lifetime employment is no longer guaranteed. Men end up working just as hard and long as their fathers did, with less returns and less expectation of success.

      These combined with changing attitudes toward divorce are causing a lot of men to stop trying. Most of them still want pussy, though, I would wager; and if they could choose to live in the same economic system their fathers did, I suspect they would choose it in a second.

  • http://www.veteransoutreach.info Grunt

    The assertion of American females that “I have the pussy, blah blah blah” is valid right up until the point the American man’s feet touch ground in Europe or South America.

    Capitalizing on a beneficial situation works both ways, you see. When one party’s attempt to capitalize (exploit?) results in the other party escalating the situation up and away from the original parties ability to complete…well, all bets are off.

  • the tall one

    I think the “grass-eaters” of japan is a fascinating turn of events. Is it a sign akin to MGTOW? I seriously doubt that. Why? MGTOW has as many ideas on how to go about it as there are members, so any real collusion of ideas overseas isn’t likely to be accurate.

    I would, however like to point out that grass-eaters do exist (depending on how you define it), I say this not because of idealogical beliefs, but because I’ve heard from many sources (including financial) that have not only mentioned grass-eaters, but bemoaned the lack of economic muscle these men generate.

    I do believe the generation of grass-eaters we are seeing is a combination result of the japanese economy (salary man!) and western societal influences. Was feminism to blame? No, but it did it’s part.

    Ultimately any argument I make is somewhat of an irrelevance since arguing the origins solves nothing. So instead, what I ask is: Now grass-eaters are here, what will the rest of the world do to define a sub-culture within society?

    • the tall one

      I digressed from subject matter, dreadfully sorry. In terms of the vaginal Bastille that is relational oppression, I have to wonder what goes through women’s heads when they complain about men only wanting sex, but then hold it over our heads until they get ______, ______, _______, and ______.

      It’s basic economics to create a demand for an item, but if the cost of production is greater than the profit, it’s bad business to continue producing. Get it now?

  • http://www.cyclotronmajesty.net CyclotronMajesty

    JTO you should write a book!

  • MGTOW-man

    This article says the same thing I have been saying all along but in more lofty terms than I do.

    I have been my own man, going my own way, for many years now…way prior to the terminology being born. I love and like most women, and am straight as an arrow, (getting all that I care to get), but decided a long time ago that letting females determine if I “get to be a (real) man” is stupid, wheel-spinning, counter-productive, and lacking in self-respect…downright foolish! The same goes for letting the herd-mentality of collective men determine my worth and manhood achievement too. In May’s archive of “What is a real man”, I commented on this subject.

    Because we, (meaning, the editors and I) are more alike than it may appear, why can’t we communicate?

    Why not? I say the same things you say, but in more layman-friendly, understandable terms. I do so on purpose: to attract, interest, and motivate the average man out there to do something about the condition they are allowing and that is deteriorating rapidly. I truly believe that it is possible to speak over one’s head. Being right isn’t enough, but being understandable by the majority, is better and will draw more attention and support.

    Keep it simple. While most people are capable of extracting and extrapolating clever quips, clues, and context, when it is easy, simple, and straightforward, more people will read… and do.

    Just thought I would try to help men and boys in my own way. That’s right; That is all I want to do; help men and boys. Let me.