Lie to me. I promise, I’ll believe. Cheryl Crow
Every man knows that when answering the question posed in the title that he does so at his own risk.
It’s a typical non question, designed more for adulation on demand than an honest answer.
And you have seen it before, or one of a thousand variations of it, because it’s a universal part of the male experience in dealing with women in relationships.
The general rule is, women ask a question and men search for the “right” answer, or at least for one that will result in as little trouble as possible.
Perhaps illustrating further with a joke will help.
A man and woman are leaving a movie. The woman asks, “Do you think Sigourney Weaver is pretty?”
The guy knows this is potential trouble, but he also knows he has to answer.
“Well, yeah, I guess,” he says, trying not to sound at all enthusiastic. Nothing else is said and the guy feels relieved.
Two weeks later they are in a restaurant having dinner.
“How’s the meatloaf?” she asks.
“A little dry,” he says.
“Well, then,” she says, her tone snide and suddenly hostile, “Maybe you should have had Sigourney Weaver make it for you!”
It’s a funny joke, and might be best left to the realm of humor until you consider that this is how many, many men live their lives; trying their best to not say the wrong thing, even if they have to lie, and constantly being set up with a series of questions for which there is no right answer.
What does it say, one might ask, about a human being when they not only insist on being told what they want to hear, regardless of its truthfulness, but will also, in fact, deal out retribution when given the wrong answers to impossible questions?
I have three words for it.
Complete moral bankruptcy.
Actually, I have three more words that are more accurate.
Spoiled rotten child. That is actually more fitting because we don’t expect children to have the moral development that we would an adult. And nowhere but in modern western culture are we satisfied when women measure up to the moral development of a five year old.
It’s a state of affairs that affects both men and women. But there is a major difference in how and when and why it happens between the two.
First, for a man to have the world around him lying to him for the sake of his over inflated sense of self importance, he has to have a lot of money. You can bet that Donald Trump and Bill Gates have a slew of people around them that would point to a blue sky and call it green if they thought that is what those guys wanted to hear.
But The Donald and Gates represent a very decided minority of men- and they have to pay, literally, for the privilege of being surrounded by obsequious Yes Men.
Any of the rest of men that expect automatic deference, that become childish and punishing when denied agreement or coddling, are rightfully regarded as immature pricks and written off, by men and women alike.
It has to be mentioned though, that there is some reason to question whether the self importance of men like Gates and Trump is all that over inflated. Arrogant and spoiled? No doubt, but they have accomplished incredible things in their lives.
Women, on the other hand, have a much different set of circumstances. All men are Yes Men, or are damned well expected to be, and it costs those women absolutely nothing to realize their expectations; their only qualification for that status is the possession of a vagina. No need to build and empire or revolutionize technology. Just sport the P-nay-nay and the lap dogs will come a yappin’.
You don’t have to look any further than the comments on MRA websites to see what happens when some of us get uppity and start telling the truth, without say so from the Princess Collective.
I can even hear even more of it coming now. Eeewwwwww! That’s so hateful and misogynistic! You’re just frustrated because you can’t get laid!
Sure, cupcake, and I have no doubt you fully expect people to agree with that assessment. Aren’t you entitled to that, as a woman?
I will answer those comments, should they occur, in advance.
First, the truth isn’t hate speech. Never was. Second, if you don’t like the truth, grow the hell up and quit living by a standards that require people to lie. And third, grow the hell up and quit living by standards that require people to lie.
Failing any of this, quit expecting anyone to regard you as an equal. It just doesn’t work that way.
Sheesh, and they say men have fragile egos? Gimme a break.
I often consider all of this when women question me about a gender wage gap that does not exist. Or about the myth that women in this culture were ever oppressed. Or about domestic violence being only committed by men.
And my conclusion is that those questions aren’t really those questions.
Those questions are “Do you think my ass looks fat in this dress?”
Of course, I am supposed to maintain the status quo and give the answer that is expected to those and a litany of other non questions, for fear of getting Sigourney Weaver thrown back in my face. Just as I am supposed to not recognize that such inquiries are really just fishing expeditions from the imagined infallibles that are the fairer sex in modern culture, NAWALT’s notwithstanding.
Unfortunately, I lost interest in the right answers to anything a long time ago, figuring that the best answers are always the truthful ones. That became necessary when I discovered that I could not seek the truth and placate children at the same time.
But it gives women what they have claimed to want for so, so long.
Equal treatment.
After fifty years of endlessly disseminating information on the darker side of masculine nature- information that morphed into the unrestrained male bashing that now pervades modern consciousness, it is fair and just, in the name of equal treatment, that we begin to explore the darker, more destructive side of the feminine as well.
Funny how that does not sit so well with so many of them.
Tags: Culture, Feminism, Men's Issues, Mythbusting, Paul Elam, Women
660 Posts in Total
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Turbo:
Victor Zen:
re-construct:
ErnestoGuevara:
I’m glad I’m not the only one who realizes that questions like this are a fucking trap.
Age old issue as far as women and their inbuilt dishonesty and aversion to the
truth are concerned, lets face it they couldn’t and wouldn’t accept the truth if it
was supplied to them wrapped in a pile of $1000 bills.
As we all know (well, the men that is), It’s a complete exercise in futility to even
concern yourself with it.
The way I look at it, frank and simply honesty is always the best policy.
After all they might shut up for a short while if you tell them what they want to
hear but don’t forget they will waste no time in finding something else to bitch about anyway.
Remember too, that those men who take the easy way out (although they
can easily be forgiven for doing so in my view) only serve to cheapen and
make liars of themselves and let’s face it in todays world no woman is worth
the tarnishing of one’s integrity.
I suggest replying “I know what answer you want me to give to your question,
but frankly my dear I’m not disingenuous to do so.”
I have known women who want confirmation of their dearly held beliefs, and women who want to honestly know what I think. I can assure you that by standing up for my own beliefs in contradiction to theirs, my relationships with the former group have all but died.
That’s how truth operates. If you don’t want truth, you will be surrounded by sycophants who will be more than happy to watch you walk around in circles the rest of your life.
When a man or a woman asks a leading question, he or she is not being completely honest with you. Dishonesty can be considered a form of coercion, only it is coercion used against truth instead of an individual. As I pointed out at STR, “Coercion Is Death.” When you coerce the truth by hiding your intentions with a question meant to be a trap, you kill volition first, and any relationship that would have been possible is next to follow. The wealth that might have been created by that relationship will also die.
Therefore, to ask manipulative questions is to be death-oriented. Ladies, stand up for your own opinions, and don’t worry if some guy disagrees. Listen, and you might learn something, just as assuredly as he may if he listens to you.
I was once out with a woman on a first date. We were joined by a couple of her friends who we “accidentally” ran into. One of her friends wanted a “man’s opinion” about her dress. Before I offered an answer, I asked her whether she would really want the truth. I asked her to suppose that her dress was unflattering. Would she want here a lie that it looked nice, then proceed out in public where people would see how unflattering her dress made her look, or would she want the truth so she could change into something more flattering. All three of the women were offended at my answer and considered it an insult. I was accused of being callous and insensitive. After a few minutes, I asked my date whether she could get a ride home with her friends and left.
TDOM
The theme of this article is something I’ve noticed, too, though not originally in the context of women.
There are people who are concerned with finding accurate descriptions of reality, and they usually put far more effort into that than convincing others.
Then, there are people who live solely within the realm of human perception. They don’t actually care what the objective truth is, their concern is only what other people believe the truth is. They will expend massive amounts of energy trying to get people to agree with them, rather than turning the focus inward and increasing their own understanding of issues. Genuine truth, reality as it exists separate from human concern, is totally boring and irrelevant to these people.
Because women are, by design, built to harness the energies of others to promote themselves, the truth is neither necessary nor desirable. If in their quest for self-furtherance the truth helps them, this is incidental. This doesn’t just apply to women, though. Notice how the vast majority of people’s beliefs are conveniently self-serving. They are appalled by the notion that the truth might actually not be aligned in their benefit.
This is why I don’t believe the solution to the issues MRA’s talk about has anything to do with a general change in the attitudes of women. I do not think it is likely that many women would knowingly and intentionally decrease the quality of their immediate lives if it would promote abstract and detached concepts like truth or justice. Women are designed to try to get the best deal possible. Men are supposed to be a road block preventing this from getting out of hand. Men and women are supposed to compliment each other, and also moderate each other. As noted in the article, men have totally given up on doing this because they are terrified of being seen as ‘oppressing’ a woman.
And so, outrageous divorce laws and the like will continue until men intervene- directly against the wishes of women and foolish manginas. How many women do you expect to support ending their having the option of an easy and profitable divorce? I’d guess even less than the number who see something wrong with it right now. The changes that need to happen will not come without massive opposition.
I was really into this article and your honesty/perspective until you compared the “Does this make my ass look fat?” question to unequal pay wages and womens oppressed past. Maybe I misread, but are you implying that pay is uniformly equal between men & women and that women always had it good in America?
Justin, both of these videos were authored by Paul. Consider these videos a direct reply to your questions. (Hopefully the embed works)
@ Justin. Welcome, and thanks for your comment and questions.
It reminded me to link readers to those points in the essay. As you will see above, each one of those statements is now linked to one of my very well researched videos. Enjoy them.
But to answer one question more directly, I have to point out that not always “having it good” and OPPRESSION are two entirely different things.
Men have never had it good when you look at the life of the average stiff.
Have we been oppressed? If so, life itself is oppressive.
Post Edited by Paul
@ Eincrou
I have not figured out how to make embed codes work for users yet. But in the meantime if you post the URL it will work, and I can go in to change it to the direct embed after I see it.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Paul wrote: “What does it say, one might ask, about a human being when they not only insist on being told what they want to hear, regardless of its truthfulness, but will also, in fact, deal out retribution when given the wrong answers to impossible questions?
“I have three words for it.
“Complete moral bankruptcy.
“Actually, I have three more words that are more accurate.
“Spoiled rotten child.”
Just last night I was having dinner with a couple of women, who were discussing a matter in which they are quite interested, but in which I have only a passing interest. I was reading a book, while they talked, but occasionally taking part in the conversation. At one point, one of them stated, with regard to another women that the three of us know, “She’s busting through the glass ceiling everywhere.”
I decided not to argue the matter — gotta choose your battles, and my book was far better company. But my thought was (and yeah, yeah, NAWALT), “White western women, especially white women of the Anglosphere, are the most spoiled organisms that have ever existed on the planet.”
Justin, in the past, at least in the US and other western nations, women’s roles were NOT more oppressive or onerous than men’s roles. As for the wage gap, it is a grotesque distortion and, therefore, a lie. The propaganda of the wage gap is based on the fact that on average a full-time employed woman makes less than the average full-time employed man. When adjusted for hours worked (full-time can be 35 to 80 hours a week), particular job (typist or solid-state physicist), dangers on the job (office worker vs. construction or garbage collecting), commuting demands, education, years in the field, within the uncertainty of such a measurement (a few percent) the difference in pay disappears. Women are NOT paid less than men for a given background, ability, and amount of work in a given field.
The loaded questions men get from women and the resulting backlash are a form of passive aggression:
http://passiveaggressive.homestead.com/HOWandWhy.html
http://www.angriesout.com/couples8.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive_personality_disorder#Passive-aggression_as_a_personality_disorder
http://mental-health.families.com/blog/dealing-with-a-passive-aggressive-manipulator-1
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Psychiatry-Psychology-General-1009/2009/2/Best-way-react-passive.htm
http://relationshipdj.com/tag/passive-aggressive-when-mad/
http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/crazy-bitch-quiz/
http://padontstandforpaloalto.wordpress.com/definition-of-the-passive-aggressive/
Women often blame men for being passive – aggressive, but from my own personal experience, it is something that women love to project onto men. With the laws changing around the world regarding aggression and criminalizing “psychological violence” http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/world/europe/30france.html being mean to one’s wife or girlfriend could get you into serious legal trouble. So perhaps men who aren’t passive-aggressive will find it is their only outlet for self-expression, just as women use it now to put men into “no-win” scenarios.
“Do you think my ass looks fat in this dress?”
The only answer I would ever CONSIDER giving to this is “yeah, it kind of does actually.”
Truth be damned.
I recently left a woman who suffered from entitlement syndrome, and ABT (Anything But This) syndrome.
It took a while but I eventually realized that no matter what I declared my intention/desire for the relationship, it would immediately register in her that that is now something she should withhold from me. So when I ended up not desiring anything, for sake of mental stability, she went ballistic and we parted.
Mischievous mind combined with ‘you go girl’. Ugh.
Another good answer to “does this dress make me look fat?” is
“No, your fat makes you look fat.”
Guys, let me tell you a weird story… Its SHOCKING the kind of men there are out there.
So me and my friend are in a club, and some chick is hitting on us, trying to get our approval and shit… And she says to my friend “yaaaa… my hairstyle’s kinda messy today, it doesn’t look so good, what do you think?”. So my friend answered honestly “yeah, it is kinda messy”.
GUESS WHAT? Some guy out of the crowd, just a random onlooker, actually immediately comes up to my friend and says “HOW DARE YOU!? That’s not how you talk to a lady! You tell her “no no, its awesome, you look great darling!”.
He doesn’t know either her or my friend. Just a random guy, lol… Can’t believe it still… I was like wtf?
Paul -
You touch on it, but deviate away (which is fine, it wasn’t the main focus of the article)…
Why do women tend to keep a mental log of mundane issues (ie: Sigourney Weaver) to bring up and hash out at a later point? Is it to use such grievances as “ammo” in an argument? A sort of mental/emotional blackmail? I don’t think its entirely passive-aggressiveness or conflict aversion, as I know my fair share of women who like to spout off the instant they feel wronged (but still like to keep track of said issues).
That all said, I don’t think women resemble spoiled rotten children, but more vindictive blackmailing expletives.
I think it’s just best to refuse to answer such loaded questions and engage in childish behavior.
If a woman ever brings up any past argument or any past hurt that she wants to deal with, again I refuse to deal with past issues. Bringing up past issues is just asking for conflict and it’s a red flag for trouble ahead. Any issues should be dealt with promptly and then put behind you. Anybody who harbors resentment and saves it for the future is nothing but trouble!
Woman: “Does this dress make me look fat?”
Here are the correct answers:
MAN: “Its not the dress that’s making you look fat”
MAN: “Yes, but you’d look fat without it”
MAN: “Why no snookems – YOU are making the DRESS look fat”
Truth and honesty, I have found is not a friend to most woman.
Intimidation, blackmail, manipulation and revenge are the tools many woman use so often, that we end up rarely noticing it.
Many woman I have met are frighteningly morally retarded.
Whether by her choice or nature, I don’t think it matters you are still regarded a tool.
Her great power is – she doesn’t care.
And her power only works on you if continue to think of her – as a person.
Comment moved to Feminist-Mangina page.
“The feminists I speak of are those that are confidant in their place in the world and do not need you or the government putting men down to do so.”
What a transparent lie. Women’s groups have campaigned for decades for legal remedies and court decisons favorable to women, and often with arrogant disregard for men’s civil rights. See rape laws – hell, see lynching et alia. And women’s place in the world is predicated on men providing it for them. You don’t even build the very houses you live in or the clothes you stand up in.
“All we ask for is equal respect and rights.”
Respect has to be earned. Asking – begging – for it deserves contempt, not respect. Likewise rights have to be earned, with blood in combat. Power never gives rights; rights have to be taken. How many women risked, much less lost their lives to establish governments where they would have the vote, or equality before the law or any sort of equality?
“We want to ability to be working parents, stay at home parents or not parents at all. Choices men have (and should have) as well. ”
Men categorically do NOT have the right to parent their children in this country without a woman’s approval as long as single fathers are denied access to their children. This is enforced by the court system. The CPS in many states routinely ignores fathers when they take children from unfit mothers and puts them instead with God knows who as foster parents. Divorced fathers are rotuinely denied primary or even shared custody. This is the system in force, and it is just a lie to say it isn’t.
Paul, I do think it is important that men have their own space to talk where we will not have to deal with disruptive women.
To me, this is like trying to have a serious adult discussion, only for bratty children to be running around screaming because nobody has put them to bed.
This is a problem which plagues all major MRM sites which do not moderate comments in advance, and while I wouldn’t suggest you do that, I would suggest IP banning repeat offenders like Ophelia here.
To be blunt, women’s views aren’t wanted, unless I’m much mistaken. By this I mean those who do nothing but express womens’ generally held views: NAWALT, shaming tactics, etc., which disrupts and derails conversation between men.
It’s your website and all I can do is give my point of view, I will respect however you choose to run it.
Perhaps I shall make my own place on the web, which will be much more restricted and private, to which only pro-male men can contribute. Naturally, you will be invited if I do go ahead with this.
Ophelia,
I’m still waiting for that “scientific” research. You are quite representative of feminists, you think your opinion is important and facts are not.
Wouldn’t that be wonderful if men were not judged by their careers and ability to make money, then we could just sit on the couch watching oprah and eating bon-bons too.
Addendum.
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/01/18/guide-to-bird-watching-in-the-manosphere/
We will continue to tread around in these circles until the ‘manosphere’ lives up to its name as a male-centric place.
I am not pointing fingers. I myself have fallen into the trap of responding to disruptive women plenty of times, inadvertently helping to derail from the subject at hand.
Snark, consider it an opportunity to hone your debating skills with smooth talking liars.
Although there may be certain topics that require internal discussion only.
The thing is, Denis, I’ve been here so many times that I really have grown tired of it.
These people are incapable of reason – this isn’t just something we say to score points. They really do display a thick-skulled inability to engage in rational discourse. Every logical fallacy will be on display before long. You can make the most solid argument, and it will bounce back, because this isn’t what they are interested in.
So it comes to pass that I have no words for them; I never did. When my blog was still up, I pointed out several times that I would only ever talk to such people when there was a third party – an audience, a neutral observer – who could witness the fudging on their side and the honest (if brutal) arguments put forward rationally by myself.
So, for that purpose, yes, it is worth it – the honing of debating skills, as you say.
Though, this particular liar is not very smooth talking. A good trickster knows to concede points when the observer would find them reasonable – and then to find a way to turn those points back around on his opponent. Ophelia and most others like her are not even capable of this. They are merely annoying. Cumulatively, they present a great distraction from male-centric discourse.
I am opting for less than the nuclear option on this one, gents. We can actually have our cake and eat it, too.
I think a certain amount of dissent is good for the debating skills, but I also agree with Snark on one very important matter: when there is no genuine interest in debate or listening, there is nothing but distraction to be had.
That is not what I intended for this place.
@ Ophelia
I have moved your comment to the feminist/magina page. Anyone who wants to debate with you can do it there. The comments of this website are not to be used to lecture men on what women and feminists are really like, how to pick good women, and especially not to make arguments we have heard a million times about how Not All Feminists Are Like That.
Please confine your comments to that section. It gets regular hits so it will be read by most anyone who frequents this site regularly.
And PS to Snark.
I think your own site would be a great idea. You have quite a lot to say. But please don’t be a stranger here.
That’s a good article snark, thanks for sharing. On this site, we are in the majority and can afford to ignore the trolls when they prattle on without any substance.
I think that article is incomplete without the analysis of male types and debating styles. It is necessary to truly be a chameleon at times and read the crowd. On this site, you can easily get away without political correctness, as long as you have substance. On other sites, the strategy is completely different and hinges on facts, facts, facts and a few attempts at sympathy. The incessant cawing crow is quickly ignored by all, but the brave and steady truth-teller teaches other men and gives them clarity and courage. It is never a losing battle, unless you give up.
I agree with Snark. There is little to be gained from entertaining these people. The chances of something valuable and thoughtful being added is low. I don’t come out attacking them, but I do get annoyed by people coming here and claiming to champion ‘balance’ by demanding we talk about homosexuals, or by authoring posts like Ophelia’s latest. “Men are like that, too,” is just as banal an ‘addition’ to the discussion as NAWALT. There is nothing intellectually profound in calling attention to outliers, or telling us that other people not currently under discussion do it, too.
I disagree that Ophelia or anyone else is a liar. A person can emit untruths without doing so intentionally. This is why I have never had an interest in debating or arguing with anyone. Very few people actually care about objective truth, they just want you to believe what they believe. Facts, figures, statistics, and argumentation are merely what they’ve been taught can be pretty useful in convincing other people to share their views. Facts can be always be found that suggest a certain viewpoint, but it is not enough. The same principle I talked about with regards to rationales for war and other evil applies here.
The number of people who actually know how to pursue truth is very limited. It is taught literally nowhere, and individuals have to learn on their own. Most people just hold a self-serving understanding of the world, and then try to mimic the tactics truth-seekers use. I learned this when I went into debate club, where they would have you argue for one side, then switch and argue the opposite. Debating, as commonly practiced, is a complete joke. If people can defend contradictory and mutually exclusive beliefs on purpose, defending one particular false belief can easily be done unintentionally.
I think everyone ought to be given a chance to bring legitimate objections, but I agree with Snark. I wish the disagreers would just say, “What you’re saying doesn’t benefit me, so I don’t want to believe it,” but unfortunately they come here pretending to know how to think properly and I see important comments get buried under scores of back and forth posts between people with no intention of changing their minds. One of the things that fascinates me about men’s sites is the high concentration of men who do know how to think, and I think their comments should not be overshadowed.
There’s more I could say, but I’m working on shortening my ‘comments.’
Good discussion and quite amazing what happens without interference. However, addressing the basis and pervasiveness of the stereotype is necessary. It is also necessary that newbies become accustomed to and learn to address the deliberate evasion of addressing the issue at hand. Sometimes, all it takes is a basic fact and a new way to seeing things.
I think it becomes quite obvious who is purposefully disruptive and evasive, but it’s not necessary to address every counter issue, only those related to the current issue.
I think liar is very accurate for somebody who says ‘scientifically speaking” and states quantifiable numbers, but are completely unable back it up with scientific knowledge. Fraud or academic charlatan would also be an accurate description. They’re not even insults like mangina or feminist, because that is just opinion.
@ Eincrou
“There’s more I could say, but I’m working on shortening my ‘comments.’”
That will only result in a net loss for this site. I honestly wish you would submit an article or ten.
I can not stand women that ask those questions and make the guy feel uncomfortable.
It’s one example of how manipulative women can be at times.
I rather someone tell me a certain outfit doesn’t look good to me, than have me walk around looking like shit. That to me is someone who is trying to help me look my best and not wanting me to look bad.
I always warn guys to stay away from girls that try that crap. They aren’t worth it.
Sometimes I feel like I’m a woman from another planet. lol
Paul,
I had overlooked your feminist/mangina page. Moving disruptive comments there and refusing to deal with them anywhere else has roughly the same effect as banning them, I am glad to say.
Does this dress make my ass look fat you ask honey? Well dear, you have always asked me to be honest with right? So the answer is, if your ass is fat it makes no difference what dress you wear. Is the woman asking this question unable to tell the difference between a fat and normal ass? I think she knows the answer, but only wants to know the opinion her man has about her ass.
@Paul @Ophelia
No woman has any business telling a man “how to pick up chicks”, or giving any kind of advice on women….
It’s called a conflict of interest.
Great information! I’ve been looking for something like this for a while now. Thanks!
@ Richard
The point the Ophelia seems to miss is that we are not interested in what women say. We are interested in what they do. An ounce of practice is worth a pound of theory any day. Until she takes a stance that reality trumps all, then I say relegate her to oblivion.
Telling the truth is a revolutionary act. We are begining to see a revolution of men. This revolution will change the world. ¿What will happen to wars if there are no men willing to sacrifice? ¿what will happen to productivity if men refuse to work extra hours? Men have the world on our shoulders, if most of us demand equalty the world will tremble.
Exactly right, Daniel. It is the collective actions of men that are the final determinant of humanity’s course, both for better and for worse. There is no higher authority capable of defeating the will of hundreds of millions of men. Right now that will is arrayed towards allowing women to attempt to create a utopia for themselves at great expense. We are trying to peacefully and calmly change that will so that women will not eventually find themselves truly subjugated by the men of the future, based on their learning from the follies we are engaged with right now.
My wife has pretty much come around to realizing how hateful and successful feminism is. The other day, I commented that if there is one group (among blacks, gays, Zoroastrians, whatever) that society really shouldn’t alienate and piss off en masse, it’s men.
A look a grave concern came over her.
She’s rightly not worried about me. She’s worried about the mob.
“So the answer is, if your ass is fat it makes no difference what dress you wear.”
Not to get off-topic, Attila L. Vinczer, but the clothes you wear actually can make a difference, whether you’re too fat or too skinny. For instance, I like to wear t-shirts that have horizontal stripes across the chest because it makes my chest and shoulders seem wider. A fat-assed woman is aided by the right cut of dress, and preferably very dark colors. But that, of course, is not the point of the article.
To get back on-topic, I am reminded of an episode with one woman I know who approached me with a picture of a house in some magazine, gushing about how beautiful it was, and “Don’t you just want to live there?” Now, I’m a very literal person, and in spite of the fact that it was a nice-looking house, it didn’t have a front porch. I’ve always wanted to live in a house with a front porch, because my parents’ house has one, and we always used to sit on the porch to watch the summer rain. Since this house didn’t have one, I said, “No.” Without even the chance to explain myself, the magazine was whisked away and she stormed out of the room.
From time to time, I’m glad I don’t have to worry about the sexual aspect of the whole male-female relationship deal. You poor bastards.
“From time to time, I’m glad I don’t have to worry about the sexual aspect of the whole male-female relationship deal. You poor bastards.”
No shit. They need us in the movement if only for some perspective and breathing room.
“From time to time, I’m glad I don’t have to worry about the sexual aspect of the whole male-female relationship deal. You poor bastards.”
There’s a lot of anti-gay crap in our culture. Despite that, though, I often think that gay guys are incredibly lucky.
“Justin, in the past, at least in the US and other western nations, women’s roles were NOT more oppressive or onerous than men’s roles”
There are a lot of myths out there about what men “really” did to women. Men were sent to war, and if countries were invaded, men were killed. Women, survived. When women couldn’t own land? neither could men. The monarchy owned it all.
When women could not get an education, neither could men. The priests, were the only ones allowed to read. Most repression and oppression happened to both men and women, and often women were more protected from this, than men due to our breeding capacity.
However. Feminism, at least in the beginings had a point. The same point you are now making. In a world of choices, that began with the “enlightment” period of human social evolution, the choices, MUST be equal(as much as possible) and this is what women originally fought for, because it was not fair.
The anger men feel, at having choices stripped from them, as a result of gender? is the rage that feminists felt. And rightly so. Feminists are now using it, to fuel passion and anger for their personal gain that is no longer necessary and are engulfing our society.
I hate what is happening. This is a man’s forum, and I will do my best to respect it as a place you want to feel safe, and vent your frustrations.
But some of us women, really do want to help, we are trying and learning. When you believe that the very thing you are going through(removal of fair choices) never existed for women, it’s hard to support you.
It’s anger, justified but not rationalized.
No the dress does not make your ass look fat, it is fat.
Men usually have better things to get on with in their life than put up with the hassle a woman could cause them if he doesn’t bow to her every whim; but since there’s no right answer, anything you do will result in some random response depending on the woman’s state of mind at the time, it might be worth pushing through with honesty and all the subsequent results. Don’t lie in the first place is my result that way if a woman stays with you it won’t be based on an unhappy false foundation that can only last as long as you pour energy into maintaining it.
If the question or comment seems pointless, I’ll simply ask – what do you want me to say?
Just read this article and laughed my @$$ off. Since high school, I have always answered this question type the same way. Deadpan the voice; look the idiot in the eye and say, “No, that (dress, top, pants, whatever) does not make you look fat.”
It’s about a 60/40 split on whether the fireworks begin or not.
If she asks a question like “Do you think Sigourney Weaver is pretty?” reply with a likeminded question, “Do you think Brad Pitt is handsome?”. This will show the side of your argument without actually confronting the problem head on, and she’ll leave questions like this behind. If she persists though with the original question, tell her “nowhere near as pretty as you look!”, and mean it.
If she asks a question like “Do you think my ass looks big in this?” you should focus less on the fat, and more on the tone. The answer should be – unless she has a fat ass, no. If she has a fat ass, tell her that it looks “fine”. If she asks “Do I look fat in this?” focus more on the parts which don’t look fat with an appropriate response of “no, I actually think it makes your (body part) look attractive!”. This way, focusing on one point shows that you’ve examined her outfit, and chosen something which looks better.
In all scenarios, you do not lie, and you please the lady. Everyone wins.
Women can be manipulative, so men can be too. We’re all human, after all =]
Oh, and smile.