BPD

BPD: Sick, or just crazy asshole?

I have been a longtime admirer of the scant handful of mental health professionals that have chosen to deal in the truth, rather than just peddle whatever is sellable to women in the misandric zeitgeist.

Staying on an honest road is tough in any arena. In the feminist dominated realm of mental “health,” it is brutal. I know, I lived that life for a couple of decades. I can tell you from personal experience that the greatest amount of flak I got from other professionals was for failing to follow the party line on any given matter.

My first serious conflict was over alcoholism, which I was supposed to view as a disease. That complicated things for me, mainly because alcoholism is not a disease. I don’t speculate on that, or assert it as my “perspective.” I claim it as the irrefutable truth. There is no evidence at all, none, that alcoholism is a disease, except that it was recognized as one in the year of my birth, 1957, by the AMA, with absolutely no scientific evidence to back it up.

It was purely a political and financial decision that enabled doctors to start charging alcoholics to “treat” them, and allowed active, drinking alcoholics to do what they do best…point at something other them themselves as the culprit in their lives. It was a win-win, kind of.

Another significant area of conflict I experienced in the mental health field was in respect to the Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), or, the more accurately labeled, “dangerous asshole that should be avoided like the plague.”

Please bear with me while I cover some basics here. In dealing with mental health issues, we are dealing with a spectacularly wide and diverse array of problems and their causes.  There are disorders that a purely physiological in origin, like Organic Brain Syndrome (OBS) where medical disease (or injury) results in impaired mental functioning. OBS is a somewhat antiquated term, and has been removed from classification from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) because of a growing number of discoveries that point to organic (physiological) causes for many psychiatric disorders.

But of importance here is that what we find with many victims of brain injury or disease is that they have severely diminished control over their thoughts, and often their actions.  That capability has been taken from them due to the effects of brain trauma or disease.

Schizophrenia, a devastating condition which causes all manner of neurocognitive impairment, is also thought to be at least partially physiological in nature. As with other organic brain problems, the victim is completely powerless over their symptoms and sometimes their behavior. It is a crushing disease that literally terrorizes its victims. Imagine actually seeing demons come out of the wall to tear you to pieces, or your mind telling you that God is speaking through your dog, telling you to kill someone.

Schizophrenics do not choose these hallucinations and bizarre thoughts and without medical or even legal intervention, they sometimes have little to no control over how they respond to them. Similarly, bi-polar disorder can result in acute psychosis rendering an individuals ability to control their actions questionable at best.

There are other examples of when physiological causes are at the root of severe psychological and behavioral problems. Depression is a good example. It can be traced to a myriad of physical causes and result in some very dangerous physical symptoms, including alcoholism, drug abuse, violence and suicide.

But depression is a disorder, despite having some possible physical causes, that demands to be differentiated in approach from diseases like schizophrenia.

An individual, no matter how depressed, is capable of making an informed, rational choice about their actions. 

In that light, they are fully responsible for whether or not they drink alcohol, take recreational drugs, become violent or even kill themselves.  We can give them medication and psychotherapy, as well as provide other support services, but in the end they are fully and completely responsible for every choice they make in their lives. While their thinking can be clouded by their problem, they are fully capable of determining the difference between right and wrong as well as understanding the consequences of their actions.

That brings us to the BPD.  This individual, typically a female (yes, that is documented) is one whose mental state renders her a significant emotional, psychological and often physical danger to anyone in her life, and in particular men with whom she becomes involved romantically.

BPD is the indicated diagnosis when some or all of the following are present:

  • A long-term pattern of unstable or turbulent emotions, including frequent displays of inappropriate anger.
  • A pattern of impulsive actions and chaotic relationships, including, but not limited to impulsiveness with money, substance abuse, sexual relationships, binge eating, and shoplifting.
  • Intolerant, often hostile reaction to being alone.
  • Repeated crises and acts of self-injury, such as wrist cutting or overdosing.

There is a more thorough examination of behaviors common to BPD, but you won’t likely find them detailed in diagnostic literature. The following are traits I have drawn from personal experience observing borderline women in clinical and real life settings.

  • A remarkable facility for lying and manipulation, particularly for sympathy and adulation, but also to enlist action from others that will further their personal objectives for revenge or retaliation.
  • A propensity to make false allegations of rape, sexual abuse and domestic violence.
  • A near bottomless capacity for vengeance over the least, or even imagined, slights.
  • A sadistic pleasure in causing unwarranted harm to others who are perceived to be enemies, or even those determined to not love them “enough.”
  • The capacity to justify and rationalize any abusive behavior, no matter how extreme or how innocent the victim. No moral compass.
  • The repetitive demand that others sympathize with them, even as they cause destruction in the lives of innocents.
  • The distorted mindset that the abuse they inflict is not abuse, but that objecting to it or fighting back is abusive to them.

And one other thing must be incorporated into your understanding of the BPD. They are in total control of what they are doing.  There is no organic factor or deficit in self control that causes what they do. Their acts are willful and premeditated. They comprehend the difference between right and wrong, appropriate and inappropriate, truth and lies, reality and fantasy.

They frequently hold jobs and involve themselves in social situations where their destructive behaviors would quickly work against them. They often perform admirably and demonstrate a respectable capacity for self control and appropriate behavior. Any notion that they cannot help their actions, which you will most frequently hear from BPD’s or the unscrupulous clinicians who profit from their condition by helping them rationalize their behavior, is completely fraudulent.

They know what they are doing and often enjoy it.

Do they suffer tremendously from internal chaos and unstable emotions? Certainly. So do the depressed, and alcoholics and those with anxiety disorders and other maladies. We just don’t offer any of them as pass on hurting themselves and others. Nor should we.

Given the absolute potential for devastation that the BPD brings into the lives of anyone unfortunate enough to be in their path, it is pretty important to understand the prognosis for their condition.

There is no psychotropic medication that treats BPD and there is no known cognitive therapy that works with them. In short, they have an intractable condition that is impervious to treatment of any kind. They cannot be helped near as much as they can be avoided for the sake of helping others.

There is a running joke among psychiatric professionals about BPD’s. And yes, we told jokes about serious problems. It is one of the ways clinicians deal with the stress of working with them.  Anyway, it’s a simple one-liner.

You don’t treat borderlines, you ignore them.

And that, in the broader sense, is also indirect professional advice when it comes to anyone with the misfortune to find themselves locked in the sights of a BPD.

Get away from them.

Go directly in the other direction. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.00. Just get thee…away; chalk whatever losses you suffer up to experience and be grateful about what you could have lost.

Families of alcoholics are told to cut them off (and the enabling) as long as they are drinking. It is good advice that helps the alcoholic face their problem and often saves the family a lot of misery.  But dealing with a borderline is not near as simple or easy as going to an Alanon meeting and learning better boundaries. Their pathology is far too serious and dangerous for that.

Hear this, and hear it clearly. They are not going to get better. Ever. There is nothing you can do, no kindness you can extend, no sympathy you can embrace, no psychological slight-of-hand, nor the culmination of wisdom from your entire life’s experience that you can bring to bear to make a BPD anything other than a major, life draining pain in the ass and a potential nightmare waiting to destroy everything you have, inside and out.

In fact, should you find yourself engaging in endless internal debate about whether you should stay or leave a relationship with a BPD, I suggest you get help for yourself. Unlike them, there may be a chance to reach you and help you identify what causes you to stay attached to a lifestyle of abuse, chaos and danger.

Then again, there is always the red pill.

About Paul Elam

Paul Elam is the founder and publisher of A Voice for Men, the founder of A Voice for Men Radio, and appears weekly on AVFM Intelligence Report, Going Mental with Dr. Tara Palmatier and monthly on MANstream Media with Warren Farrell and Tom Golden.

Main Website
View All Posts
  • Corvid

    Well, this does sound familiar. My last girlfriend had, I am sure, BPD. She certainly displayed a lot of the signs listed in the article; Dr. Palmatier’s website was of very great help to me at the time, and words cannot express my gratitude to her and everyone who uses her site.

    Getting the hell out was the only way, and thank God I did.

  • HumanCredential

    To: neutrois

    Thank you for being the only voice of reason in this entire page. I’m actually sickened to have read everything that I have read here, and the only thing I know is that people with this much hate deserve everything that has happened to them. So to the author, save your sob story and put away your credentials. This whole thing? It’s your macho version of a ‘woman scorned’. Some woman in your past did you wrong and now you are vilifying everyone that has some shared characteristic with her. And all your little minions here? More pathetic weak men who cannot stand up to anyone in the real world and who have allowed people to walk all over them. If women are so bad, the gay parade is waiting for you just outside your window. Is that a knock I hear on someone’s closet door? Go answer it, boys.

    • nick

      You must be a victim.

    • lucid426

      you have it backwards there chief. borderlines deserve any and all the nastiness you can hurl their way as they’ve already done it to us without provocation. nice attempt at projection though. I’m glad you are sickened as it is all your your doing, you have no one to blame but yourselves borderlines. that is hilariously clear to everyone except you deluded (false) self. so.. basically you’re are disgusted at yourself (which we already knew) thanks for letting us know we are being effective. otherwise you wouldn’t feel the need to defend, you’d be indifferent and ignore this article if it weren’t a threat. so again, thanks for showing how much impact and awareness we are raising about you human pieces of shit. break a leg on your next performance sweetheart

  • tigerflower

    I agree with HumanCredential. There are many frightening, twisted stories of abuse at the hands of people with BPD. But what you don’t mention, or perhaps don’t understand or realize, is that BPD exists on a spectrum, as all personality disorders do. I don’t know if some people are truly evil, and I won’t comment on it – but I know that stating “all people with BPD” are evil and just waiting for the right time to eat your children, is absolutely ridiculous and laughable. AND, much more a reflection on the person who states that than a person struggling with a disorder. There are low spectrum BPDs out there that have unstable relationships, and emotional dysregulation difficulties; there are several cognitive behavioral therapies that address this and there are many success stories. As for your sweeping generalizations, I’m sorry you met someone crazy enough to make you feel this way, but for everyone else – drop the armchair psychology bull. A person with untreated BPD can be dangerous, and yes, in some instances people need to tread carefully. And personality disorders BY DEFINITION are uncureable – however, not every BPD person is vindictive, and all people with BPD DO wish to get better. Some have made remarkable progress and continue to. You only add to the unfortunate misconception that already makes this disease difficult to find and treat.

    • JGteMolder

      Actually, people diagnosed as bipolar have been cured with medication.

      Of course, those would be people that have actually something physically wrong with them, a chemical problem in the brain that can be solved with chemicals.

      Okay, strictly speaking the physically wrong doesn’t go away, the medication has to be taken continuously and alleviates the symptoms; but still…

      Now, the next category of those diagnosed with BPD; well, they’re a whole other deck of cards, in fact, they should be lumped in with BPD at all; or those physical wrong shouldn’t be lumped in with these BPDs, it depends on your definition.

      That other group, use psychiatrists diagnosis to terrorize the people around them only more, while shifting the blame for their terrorizing the people around them on their disorder and essentially on the psychiatrist.

      Now, the ones with something physically wrong with them wish to get better, because it harms themselves as much and more likely more so, than the people around them. That other group, not so much.

  • Roadkill

    I’m not sure what to say about this misinformed, ignorant and irresponsible article. I’m a middle aged man first diagnosed with BPD in my early twenties. (Incidentally the prevalence of female borderlines is due largely to the fact that males with BPD have generally been misdiagnosed with other disorders – the stats are changing). I’m a biology professor and although the condition has made my life very difficult, I have learned to persevere and keep my feelings hidden.

    I can assure you there is no “enjoyment” in the behaviours and thoughts of a person with BPD. I have general depression most of the time and then turbulaent episodes that tend to build and peak every few years – I can’t imagine a more hellish experience. My feelings change suddenly without cause and in an instant I can find myself in a very dark place where I think of nothing but suicide.

    Your critique of BPD is very dated. In the last ten years there have been numerous studies that show that these mood swings (and hypersensitivities) are the result of very real functional impairments of the regions of the brain that regulate emotion. The cause is entirely endogenous – it’s biological and likely genetic rather than learned. There is a decent, simplified synopsis here – http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-passion-is-the-enemy.

    ‘Manipulations’ are not schemed and “enjoyed” as you suggest, they are the result of an inability to suppress recurrent thoughts and extreme emotions. BPDs loathe themselves, particularly after an outburst. They think of themselves as monsters to begin with, articles like this certainly are not going to help a BPD that wanders across this site (as you might know, this is a population with a 10% suicide rate, far higher than for any other mental condition). If you are not man enough to deal with someone with this condition, then you certainly should leave – borderlines are indeed difficult to deal with and if you lack the skills to do so it is indeed the best thing to do. But there is no reason to be hateful. It makes me question who’s the asshole.

    • johnnysmith

      If males are being mis-diagnosed, it makes you wonder – what other mistakes have been made? How about the possibility that many femails have also been misdiagnosed? See how you have been manipulated to believe crap that is thrown around as “facts”?
      BPD needs support of society to happen. Since society supports women mostly, that’s where you will find it.
      As for mood swings, being a biologists, surely you must know of work of Eric Kandel, the scientist who showed that our brain changes as a result of our experiences! This means that what you choose to do will reflect on your brain. Even simple things such as playing a piano will show on MRI. So, no it is not something outside of your control, but most likely – very much under your control.
      But, even if you have been misguided, I like the fact that you are working on yourself. Just think that you may not even be suffering from BPD, probably other things, although it does not really matter- if you need help, by all means, get it!

  • Roadkill

    I failed to notice that my above link directed to a pay site, here is a free copy :

    http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/benharm/Articles/BPD%20-%20raskin%20august%202010.pdf

  • JGteMolder

    I don’t give a damn about a BPD’s feelings; I care about the feelings and physical well-being of the victims of BPDs.

    Besides which, the clear, long-term, and consistent manipulation and harm that large number of female “BPDs” do and cause, is calculated, and they don’t feel bad or remorse about it. If they did, and had ups and downs, in the ups they would leave the people they are harming themselves and check themselves into asylum; they don’t, they simply continue the malicious harming and through manipulation keeping people under control.

    Now, with misandry and women are such sweet victims mentally around, there’s a good chance these women aren’t BPD at all, but are diagnosed that way to keep up the facade that the only women who act like this have something actually physically wrong with them. Indeed, these women’s behavior seems to be the exact opposite of what a BPD is supposedly behaving like; which mean they are NOT BPD, they are sociopathic narcissists. Which is technical term for selfish, evil sacks of shit.

    • finalresult

      What the ‘expert’ failed to state is the kind of men most often attracted to BPD women…. sick and crazy asshole men seeking the sex and drama…

      Often the men attracted to women with BPD are looking for a daring women to give them all kinds of sex on demand, no strings attached, little emotional involvement and I have not any sympathy for any man complaining of a current or past BPD relationshp whatsoever at all.

      If these poor male victims of BPD women were looking for a moral woman to date and take home to meet the family they would not have taken her on a joy ride of months to even years for the sex, thrill and no boundaries relationship.

      Often the men involved with BPD women are BPDish or themselves messed up and many are just plain horny men liking the sex and drama. But when reality sets in for these men they blame it all on her.

      If you won’t take her home to meet Mama after the first date which is often a great sexual time then you, man, deserve whatever becomes of you. BPD women attract messed up men!

      So when I heard a man at work whine about how a BPD woman messed up his life for over a year I just said, was all that sex worth it? and he walked away.

      • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

        Wow. You are an incredibly prejudiced and abusive asshole aren’t you?

        Why is it I think that if we flipped this around, and said “women who are attracted to psychotic men are crazy asshole women seeking sex and drama?” Maybe that’s prejudice on my part, but my guess is you’d never say that to a woman in an abusive relationship.

        In any case, your presumption that men who get involved with BPD women are themselves just as bad is bigoted garbage. While that is going to be true in some cases, it is going to be completely untrue in many, if not most, others. An awful lot of people find themselves in a relationship with one of these personalities because they seem very charming and fun, or because they grew up in an abusive environment themselves and what most people would see as signs of abuse don’t come off as “wrong” to them, or even because they think they can “heal” the BPD, seeing a wounded woman (or man) they think they understand and can fix.

        Your lack of sympathy for men in particular who find themselves in this common situation is sickening.

      • itiswhatitis999

        While I think you are wrong to state that anyone in a BPD’s path somehow “deserves” their fate and I DO agree that BPD’s are in complete control of their actions and are complete manipulative assholes; I do think you are correct when you state that BPD’s attract a certain type of person whom have issues of their own.
        There are some really good articles that explain the dynamics involved in the relationship one has with a BPD.

        http://gettinbetter.com

        • lucid426

          the borderline typically idealizes narcissists/ psychopaths but don’t necessarily date them. they tend to go for people with empathy who they can sucker into their nonsense. the person they date / marry may have issues but are probably just naive guys/girls who didn’t know better. – but the borderline will have a narcissist/ psychopath ‘friend’ (manipulator whom they idealize / emulate and act as their flying monkey.

  • http://cailcorishev.wordpress.com Cail Corishev

    I’m coming in late here, but I notice that your list of BPD symptoms is much stricter than others I’ve seen, with a heavy emphasis on outright violence and vengeful activity. Some lists include things such as moodiness, denial, being fickle (changing job or relationship goals at the drop of a hat), and so on. By those lists, I was beginning to think that all the single/divorced women of my acquaintance (and many of the married ones) between the ages of 25-55 were BPD, which isn’t terribly useful. I even wrote a blog post about how being in charge of themselves for too many years without a husband or father to give them boundaries drives women to BPD. I think your list makes more sense, since it separates the truly dangerous and hopeless cases from the women who are just flaky and badly trained.

  • Clamato

    These people truly are destructive and they view “love” thru a very distorted lens. Mine “loved” me and that is why she entrapped me into pregnancy. How did I find out she was pregnant? A month after we broke up she texted me the news. Class act. One year later and a protective order (against her), a violation of protective order (her, with a guilty verdict), a probation violation (her), jail time, and a pending invasion of privacy criminal case for computer spyware installed on my computer, and I have 50% primary custody of my one-year old daughter.

    In the end, things don’t get better they only get worse with them. If nothing else, be aware of this fact as it makes it easier to exit. All you have to do is observe and it will come to you. I tried making it work while she was pregnant and it was crazy. And once the baby was born, her demands went thru the roof while I spent time and money on a full time nanny and picking up dirty diapers and bottles because she was too busy “watching the baby”. They are assholes at the end of the day, especially those who refuse therapy and project their toxic waste on others. This woman needs a piñata not a boyfriend or husband.

    I could go on and substantiate my claims, but rest assured I have volumes of empirical evidence. The good news is slowly but surely men are getting some of their rights back. The Jodi Arias conviction is a far cry from Lorena Bobbitt’s 45 days in a mental hospital sentence based on “abusive partner”. Let’s hope these judges continue to see the light and realize that actions make one a “nurturer” not simply gender. As for family courts, I pray for the day when judges realize that just because a woman can have a baby, that does not make her a good mother. The “golden uterus” perception needs to get tossed to the curb.

    • Near Earth Object

      “They are assholes at the end of the day, especially those who refuse therapy and project their toxic waste on others.”

      True. Every letter of it.

      Take Care, Buddy

  • Travis

    This is terrible and I hope that some people that are trying to turn their lives around aren’t triggered by your callousness. BPD folks can and do get better. In fact, it boasts a 90% success rate…it’s one of the highest success rates of any personality disorder. And your comment about there being no therapies is ridiculous; Dialectical, schema and cognitive are the most popular. Your “article” (i use that term extremely loosely, as I feel its more worth cleaning my sphincter with) also derides people as “assholes” and advises people to “run away” from BPD individuals. How insensitive. So even by your accounts, depression and personality disordered individuals should be ignored, put down, exiled…how wonderful that you showed up to challenge people with actual credentials. Basically you’re a narcissist with a knack for creating a semi-charming looking website with zero fact based content. I am incredibly sorry I stumbled on this blog. You’re an asshole and I sincerely hope you choke on your own egotism.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Better to choke on my egotism than to drown in your victimhood. Oh, and next time you want talk about success rates at treatment, bring some sources.

      • caulene

        I have a daughter that’s borderline – her father was borderline, his mother was borderline, his grandmother was borderline. Over the past 10 years there has been a surge of research and treatments (successful) geared towards treating the borderline. A simple google search will prove this. There is plenty of info there. And one major finding is a very large genetic component to the illness – my ex’s family clearly indicates the truth to that. There are evil people – there are good people – mental illness or no mental illness. My daughter is in treatment and shown huge progress – she has a way to go but she is on her way up and out. What keeps her committed to therapy? A deep and abiding love for her children and her family. She absolutely does not want to hurt any of us. Are there BPD’s out there that should be avoided at all costs – yes – but there are “normal” people and other disordered people that you should avoid at all costs – thats a no-brainer. Considering the amount of verbal abuse you direct at anyone who disagrees with you – I would suggest you also have BPD – you might want to check that out. Its pretty common for two borderlines to hook up. And this woman you were involved in – she may have BPD – she may ALSO be psychopathic. Maybe – maybe not.

    • Peter Wright (Tawil)

      @Travis: “Your “article” (i use that term extremely loosely, as I feel its more worth cleaning my sphincter with)…”

      Hmmm, I think this statement just demonstrated exactly the point of the article – that you (a BPD) are a crazy violent asshole who should be avoided like the plague, yes?

  • Clamato

    Travis, let’s throw you a bone and agree with your 90% success rate just to keep the focus on you and your distorted reality. Problem is, the vast majority of BPDs don’t acknowledge they have a problem (I don’t have a source, just first hand experience, but let’s go with 90% since it seems to be working for you).

    That leaves a lot of BPDs in denial out there.

    In my book, you are not a “victim” if you work thru the issue at hand and do something with whatever circumstance is thrown at you. In my case, I am a “victim” of domestic violence of one of these female BPDs and I actually have a caseworker assigned to my case in the major metro I live in. I am “successful” in many areas of my life and have never embraced the idea of being a victim before. In this case, I took a stand and am glad I did.

  • BadassBPDMothafucka

    This article is really silly because it generalizes too much. What is this really :|? It seems to me that this is more of a pity party for BPD “victims” than an article. Kind of amusing. I read this a while ago, thought I’d comment now. Dr. Elam is often wrong here, MAYBE sometimes right. It doesn’t matter to me if he doesn’t agree with that. He won’t. Elam claims that he’s in the minority of people “dealing with truth” while he doesn’t know the truth. There is no certain truth about BPD. BPD varies from people to people. It seems to me that Paul has possibly had or seen some really bad encounters with BPD cases (no?). I understand him making jokes about BPDs because I’ve also seen it in action, specifically in a mental institution. There was this textbook example girl with BPD.. Nobody understood what was wrong with her. Many depressed patients were surprised by her mood swings and self-destructive behavior. I remember how everyone loved to hate her. To be honest she was quite annoying. Some said “thank God she’s gone” when she left. Still, making jokes about BPD is a bit like saying “it’s funny how there’s radiation everywhere ever since nuclear war, haha”.

    Info about BPD other than “crazy asshole who should be avoided more than plague”: BPD is a severe personality disorder but ranges from mild to severe. It is often caused by childhood trauma, constantly unstable environment (physical, verbal or sexual abuse) and sometimes not. Some believe that BPDs have received the absolute minimum amount of love before early adult age. Generally completed suicide percentage is 9%, which is higher than in clinically depressed people, and a bit lower than in schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. Symptoms consist of:

    extremely volatile and/or turbulent emotions, pathologically low self-esteem, black & white thinking, depression in a form of rage and emptiness, anxiety, powerful fear of abandonment, episodic dissociation, tendency to paranoia, micropsychoses, self-destructive drug abuse or behavior, suicidal thoughts, uncertainty about life goals etc.

    There are BPD cases who are dangerously disturbed and there are much milder cases (me for instance). I’m a male in my 20s now, was diagnosed early this year. I used to have Mixed Personality Disorder with Avoidant and Borderline features, now just Borderline features. I’m sure you already hate me by now ^_^.

    “If you have BPD for real, you hurt people with it. This place is a space for your victims, not you.”
    - Dr. Elam

    I hurt people with my BPD? Well, good to know. I had no idea. It’s great that you told me though, thanks. How would you know about that? Because of some stupid BPD label :D? I’m not violent and never have been. I’m hardly even verbally offensive unless I feel someone is Really offending me (by the way you did, did I even offend you back?). My BPD symptoms often don’t contribute to my behavior and therefore, I don’t need behavioral therapy. Still, I have been diagnosed with a ton of symptoms, most completely invisible to others. I keep them to myself.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F (Ian Williams)

      “Still, I have been diagnosed with a ton of symptoms, most completely invisible to others. I keep them to myself.”

      Except here it seems.

      • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

        ROTFLMAO!!!

        I also got a kick out of this.

        “I hurt people with my BPD? Well, good to know. I had no idea.”

        No shit, you self-absorbed piece of shit.

  • BadassBPDMothafucka

    *Sigh*.. Okay, the truth as to why I said I have symptoms is because I’m here to get treated by some real fancy doctors such as yourselves. Name your price.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      How about you just leave and try not to fuck anyone’s life up. That’s on the house.

  • Deucalion

    “extremely volatile and/or turbulent emotions, pathologically low self-esteem, black & white thinking, depression in a form of rage and emptiness, anxiety, powerful fear of abandonment, episodic dissociation, tendency to paranoia, micro psychoses, self-destructive drug abuse or behavior, suicidal thoughts, uncertainty about life goals etc.”
    Sounds like “crazy asshole who should be avoided more than plague” to me.
    Honestly, I’ve lived with bipolar people before. Never again, they’re irrational, unreasonable, aggressive, disrespectful, and very few even think they have a problem.
    Take my last roommate, Angela, for example. She abused my fiancée both physically and emotionally, borrowed money off of her for “medication” then went out and bought a new TV with it. She assaulted me, and when I fought back became “Afraid” of me (Afraid of someone who wont take her psychotic bullshit) and filed a TPO against me, had me arrested (The cops weren’t even listening to the fact that she hit me first) and now I have to go to useless DV classes that actively ADMIT to using the Duluth model (which is not only flawed, but actively corrupt) and yet she gets off scot free and still refuses, last I checked, to get treatment. Her ex-husband hates her (Enough to file for, and be awarded sole custody after she failed a competency hearing and was labeled unfit to be a parent), Her children want nothing to do with her, her mother and father hate her, and not even her own current husband can stand her.
    So don’t come in here preaching that bipolar people are some sort of victims of anything other than their own actions. Because, guess what? They aren’t victims, they are victimizers. And what’s worse, their thinking is so self centered they lack the ability to recognize the pain they inflict on others.

  • Kelly

    Oh, they definitely find you “disturbed and angry” if you “fight back”. I realize we all have issues, but in my case she upped the stakes when she entrapped me with pregnancy. Bringing an innocent into the mix was simply wrong. Her idea of communication consists of threats and ultimatums. She treats everyone like an object, and I mean everyone.

    • lucid426

      that was what a borderline i knew did, she entrapped a guy almost a decade older than her into having a child. haha wooow is that guy is in for it. little does my female ex borderline friend know, if she messes with me in any way, its : says goodbye to your newborn baby and spouse, ill come after you with the aggression and nastiness you come after me with. don’t be scared of them. threaten back, but absolutely follow though with threats if they smear campaign you. cheers

  • BPD Punisher

    My last personal encounter with her took place about two and a half months ago. She tried to recycle me and I tried to torture and hurt her. And I did. Big time! She will never come back again!

    Of course I got hurt too. As we all do when they reappear in our lives. I was so sick that I had to take two days off work after that.

    So I choose not to view myself as a victim. Even during the four year long nightmare with her I fought back and made her pay for the shit that she did to me.
    Anyway, I described that last encounter on bdpfamily.com
    Most of the posts on that forum contain horrible stories of the relationships and the aftermath. A lot, if not most participants view and display themselves as victims. I chose not to do that, I chose to punish her in every way I can. And I did.
    So after my post describing this last encounter I was banned from the site completely.
    Not only I cannot post, I cannot even read.
    My intentions were to display alternative ideas and alternative thinking and processing of what happened during the four years of nightmares with the BPD. And they did not like that.

    I also said that I will hurt every BPD that ever comes into my life. I know the traits and the mindset so well that I can partly manipulate them.

    I’ve met two in the last few months. I can sense them miles away.

    And if I find any evidence of her smear campaign I will make her life even more miserable. When I told her how, she threatened to kill me. So she’ll be quietly hiding in her hole destroying more lives, but no longer mine.

    Life is so much better now!

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F (Ian Williams)

      Yuk!

    • lucid426

      a good way to threaten them is to inform their spouses of their ‘borderline personality’, many have children so a good way is to get their children taken away from them. its as simple as that. say something to the borderline, like ‘ you want to try to smear my reputation? I’m going to have your kid taken away.. OR you can leave me alone. They use their children / spouses as the ultimate narcissistic supply, let them know you’ll be telling everyone about them if you get the slightest inkling they are messing with you in any way. oh and don’t feel bad about having someones kid removed from them, they will only abuse and destroy the child’s psyche growing up.

  • Andrew

    BPD punisher – you sound like an absolutely pathetic miserable person. At least BPDs can’t help themselves. you appear to hurt people for fun.

  • BPD Punisher

    Sorry, I know it sounds harsh.
    Try to abuse me and I will not turn the other cheek, BPD or not.
    I was there exposing my heart, brain and body to this pain, totally unaware what BPD was. In these strange, totally indescribable situations. Why? Part of it is my nature but mostly ignorance. I had no idea what BPD was.
    The worst, most painful relationship. The worst four years of my life. It turned my hair gray and put deep lines on my face.
    Should I sit and cry here? Should I feel like a victim for the rest of my life?
    Sorry, it’s not my nature.
    She has and will destroy more people.
    Her kids are destroyed and I’m sure will be making more harm to others.
    I gave them my heart and they loved me. But the more I gave the more pain she gave me.
    Being with normal women feels like heaven after this nightmare.
    After reading several books and, more importantly, thousands or tens of thousands of personal stories online, I have no pity for BPDs. All stories are very similar. They are the worst people on the planet.
    The picture above is close but not very precise.
    Why?
    Because it is impossible to have the Kitten from Shrek 2 and this mean vampire bitch on the picture above at the same time.
    You know what I mean…

    “Normal” attitude toward them? Sorry.
    I’ve read enough horror stories where Iraq and Afganistan veterans said that they would prefer going back to the real combat rather than living through the BPD marriage/relationship aftermath. Oh, how about those poor guys who are so fucked up after BPD presence in their lives that they cannot have sex with normal women or can’t even satisfy themselves anymore?

    I am a very kind person and have done a lot of good things to people, even total strangers. But I have never seen anything this evil.

  • Clamato

    BPD Punisher…I understand your desire for revenge and venting. It is part of the human condition, just like sin. That said, I feel it is in our best interest as humans to temper those feels with compassion and empathy and to sometimes rise above the cheapest emotion we have–anger. My dad would often tell me that it is ok to judge but to never cross the line into condemnation as that is God’s territory. He would also tell me that sometimes the best decisions we can make often feel the worst.

    Hang in there, and if nothing else realize that on some level a lot of us here can empathize with your feelings.

    Don’t let your anger destroy you. Get it to fly in a positive formation so as to decrease the gray hairs and facial lines.

    The silver lining to your BPD relationship is that she has forced you to look at some archaic wounds. Embrace that concept and you will grow. Marinate in your anger and your soul will rot.

    That’s all I got.

    I truly hope you move forward.

  • MalcolmXXL

    Hi after reading this article by one Paul Elam I would have to agree. Good or bad I am glad you brought light on this subject. The people who are family friends and spouses of BPD are truly the victims. Having said that I also agree with Neutrois argument as well as sufferers of BPD are victims too! Yes Spouses and partners should walk if not run away. As they are the ones most emotionally invested. However we should not abandon people with BPD. We should educate ourselves as much as possible and which is why I am glad and thank Paul Elam for writing this as it has generated a lot of comments. Well done! But back to Neutrois we should continue to educate ourselves only way to help deal and not ignore the problem. I am sure anyone here agrees that everyone wishes to be raised in a normal setting ( i.e caring parents who instill good values ) and also have good family genes. No one wants to have a BPD but ones who are diagnosed with it should be aware and be educated to help them help themselves. First step is admitting you have the problem and only way you get there is being supported by family and friends. Even if in some cases the BPD is not cured at least by educating yourself you can deal with people with this disorder better. Better for you (not being taken for a ride and seeing the signs) and better for them not feeling like an outcast. Knowledge is power.

  • Nik

    i feel for guys in this situation. i am currently realizing i’ve been in a relationship with the male version. at least, i’m pretty sure that’s what this is. anything that distinguishes it from bipolar? not that it matters- he loathes psychologists and any kind of therapy/mood medication. he wouldn’t get the treatment even if he he needed it. his dad killed himself. his mom tried when he was a kid. his sister was on lithium for years for schizophrenia or at least severe bipolar disorder. i know there’s a history there of depression and mental illness. but the things he does and says and reacts to… it’s a lot like my mother was and my mother was borderline. minus the violence, he kind of reminds me of Joffrey from game of thrones when things are bad. the phrase “how dare you?” and “don’t you forget who i am.” come out a lot- and just days of anger- in response to things like misinterpreting something he’s saying and getting defensive- not saying anything mean- just speaking in a tone he doesn’t like. he just doesn’t threaten to hurt himself or commit suicide since (obviously) he has a real issue with the subject. he’s admitted he feels that bad sometimes, though. but he’s so damn mean sometimes for no reason and all over the place and i just- i have no idea what to do anymore. i know if i leave he’s going to implode- what girls he will sleep with as “revenge” and what that will result in. in many ways, i feel like i stay to protect him from himself. maybe that’s crazy? maybe that damage is what has to happen for him to change. but maybe it wouldn’t even matter? i don’t know. i do love him. when things are good, they’re great, but it seems like as soon as we hit a peak, something stupid that never bothered him before will mean the end of the world and its all my fault. it’s like he sabotages things on purpose- out of fear, spite, who knows, really? my mind is so bent from all of this i have no idea anymore. any insight would be very much appreciated…

    • MendaxRabbit

      BDP is a personality disorder, it’s inflexible and pervasive. The person who has it will never alter their behavior. Bipolar disorder is a mood disorder and is usually treated with lithium. Lithium does not cure BDP, love does not cure BDP. In fact the more you love someone with BDP the more abusive and destructive and chaotic your life will be. You cannot help an abusive person, his pain is not yours to take on. Save yourself, save your life. Leave.

      The pathetic excuse that BDPs are victims. Everyone’s a victim at one point in their lives, but we do not choose to hurt others, use others, destroy others. If asshole was a disease what name would it be. They do know what they are doing and don’t think for a second that your boyfriend is ill – btw if he has BDP he’s already sleeping with other women.

      • caulene

        They do get better – therapy – Dialectical Therapy – works very well. And if you did some research you would see that there is a wealth of data indicating BPD as NOT a personality disorder but a mental illness – brain imagery is showing portions of the brain that are not lighting up as they should. Give it a few years – it will no longer be considered a personality disorder – but a mental illness with appropriate therapy and the ability to overcome. For the love of god – do your research people!

        • Kimski

          And who might you be, oh, all knowing internet Oracle?

          Let’s at least agree that it really doesn’t make much difference for those who are at the receiving end of this supposedly ‘mental illness’, and simply lock them up in asylums until the conclusive verdict is out, to prevent them from doing additional harm.

          That would be how you treat crazies in a sane world, as far as I know, but the problem is more likely that there’s simply not enough room anywhere, for the amount of women who expose these sympthoms to some extend, nowadays.

    • kbraszzz

      You must end this relationship. If this man had BPD, and it sounds like he does, please leave. If you don’t you will end up with deep lines on your face from him. Your life will be a series of rollercoaster rides, and not the fun kind. I know from experience. What ever you do , I cannot stress this enough, do not have children with him. Please learn from my mistakes! It may hurt to end this relationship now – but it will save you a lifetime of hurt!

  • MendaxRabbit

    I just stumbled on to this site. Does anybody not notice that this guy Paul Elam shows the typical traits of a Borderline! What type of response is
    “You don’t get deference in a place like this because you have a vagina. You have to prove your case, regardless of your genitalia. I know, it sucks, and makes you a victim.”

    Violent. Abusive. Ironically he suffers from the very thing he’s ranting about.

    Males who have Borderline are not rare by the way, show your evidence if you are going to state something so inane.

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      You are absolutely right in all your particulars. Paul is fundamentally a sadistic violent sociopath who tortures small animals for fun. He admits, openly, to eating kittens, often while they are still mewling and screeching.

      Also, like all psychotic people, he treats women like equals and doesn’t treat them with kid gloves or respect their delicate sensibilities. He treats them like adults who can be addressed like fellow adults, and really, anyone who treats women like adults is pretty much by definition a misogynist.

      Honestly, we’re very glad someone around here finally had the guts to tell it like it really is when it comes to Paul. The raping, beating, misogynist, kitten-eating philatelist is really the bane of the entire men’s movement and we should do something to get rid of him.

      • Kimski

        Maybe he just needs to change his diet slightly, Dean?
        I’d lay low on the kittens for a while, and substitute with rabbit. They’re quite tasty, and you can basically cook them in similar ways.

        • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

          The problem with eating rabbits is their tendency to kick you in the face when you try to disembowel them with your teeth. Or so Paul tells me.

          • Kimski

            Yeah, I used to have the same problem, until I saw this video. I get to dance a lot these days.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHImJVJSJ08

          • Turbo

            Speaking of rabbits.

            I once knew a magician, he wasn’t very good though. He spent a lot of time practicing, but he never perfected pulling a rabbit out of his hat.

            Eventually he just settled for pulling a hare out of his arse.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      I am not BPD, and if you say that again I will cut myself and tell your parents that you diddle kiddies!

  • clamato

    Well, I work with Victim Services at my local D.A.s office as a “victim” of one of these women. The only way to get thru it is to drop the term “victim” and see yourself as a survivor with the ultimate go of being a thriver.

    When you glance the light thru the fog run for it and only look back to reflect and learn. I thank God everyday for that strength.

    As for the rest of you, one thing a BPD woman is certainly good at is cooking bunnies and kittens on the stove top. Just sayin ;)

    When all the legal nonsense comes to a halt, I will post my story. It is a whopper. And hopefully a victory for men (and fathers) everywhere.

  • Eva

    Hi
    I read this article and no offence I find It so aggressive. Im a female and I have BPD but Im not a monster! Its not like we cause this to ourselves!!

    • STONE

      Do you warn guys that you have BPD before you get close to them?

    • johnnysmith

      No BPD sees themselves as a monster… which usually means they are. Those who question such a possibility have enough humbleness to overcome that even if they are a monster. Others are like Hitler – sure of themselves and destroying the world every step of the way.

  • Eezo

    People with BPD are seen as very difficult to cure, but it does happen. They do cause alot of chaos but don’t fool yourself into believing that how it affects your life is in any way more painful than the condition of BPD is in itself. Do yourself a favor and read ‘Sometimes I Act Crazy: Living with Borderline Personality Disorder’ by Jerold Kreisman if you want to know about the disorder. This article is a prime of example of why you shouldn’t trust shit you read online.

  • hellohello14

    OMG!!!!I have had the extreme displeasure of knowing about 3 different women who are either BPD or seriously just complete assholes to the n’th degree.

    They all fit the profile you described to a t. Is this proof of a psychotic disorder or are they just fucked up pieces of shit selfish angry mean spirited people. I hate to say but I strongly suspect the latter.

    What’s worst imho about these dipshits is that they have a tendency to really draw you in and make you their buddy. But when you get close enough whoa!!!!! The knife cannot be sharp enough.

    They love love love you until you dare challenge them in the slightest way. They are deeply offended over the absolute stupidest most inane things on earth and lack the depth, intelligence or insight to have any understanding of themselves.

    Control is their game and they will try to gain this by using any means possible; manipulation, lies, and deceit. They are fiercely jealous and competitive are in no way interested in any success you may have, especially if they feel it takes away from them in some way.

    They are takers though they swear they are the most giving people on earth. to that end they are very quick to call everyone out for everything they do wrong but see zero wrong doing in their own behavior ever and will angrily call you out for exhibiting any of the slightest behaviors that THEY exhibit on a daily basis.

    I had ONE such “friend” who was bpd or just plain old fucked up. She called emailed and texted me all day and night and wanted to be my buddy. She showered me with compliments and was so eager to be close to me. The one time I got a little short with her because she was driving me up the wall she unleashed a shit storm like I’ve never seen. She fired off texts and emails one after the other all filled with complete hatred and anger. She called me every single name in the book and insulted every single thing I ever felt remotely insecure about. She made sure to leave no stone unturned. She hit below the belt and hard and forceful. I cried and cried and cried, not really so much from her hateful words as much as the mere idea that anyone could treat anyone this way and wondered what on earth I could have ever done to deserve such treatment. I was absolutely shaken to my core. The only way to get her off my back was to threaten to have her arrested and even that took a while to get through. After I begged and pleaded to have her leave me alone she finally stopped. The following day she sent a very regretful email wanting to take back all the terrible awful things she said and pleaded for my forgiveness.. Pathetically there was a part of me that wanted to grant her forgiveness, but I thought better of this and did not reply to her email. the following day ANOTHER terrible email followed taking back the apology and adding more hatefulness and insults for daring not accept her “heartfelt” apology.

    Help me lord!!!!

    I cut that shit loose. I deleted her on FB and blocked all access she had to me (electronically and by phone). She still could have come after me as she knew where I lived.

    I decided that never seeing her ever again or doing whatever possible to assure myself of this was best.

    I have since encountered one other woman who is exactly this way. I regret that I did not see and heed the warning signs and fell into it again. I feel I FINALLY learned my lesson and will from now on avoid these types at all costs. They are just not worth it and they are imo a menace to society.

    Are they nuts or are they just fucked up assholes who are medicated with so much psychiatric meds from their doctors to “treat” them which only fuels them and keeps them feeling they are “diseased” and thereby not responsible for their infantile behavior.

  • jj586460

    Paul is exactly right. I was married for a long while, and without warning she left. I dated just a bit and then met this sexy looking attractive women. She was so accommodating so nice, so sexy, and yes, I was her knight in shinning armor listening to how everyone in her life mistreated her badly, and all her family was insane jealous yahoo’s of her success and her looks. She also had no friends and the ones she did, didn’t last long. Engaged 4 times, married 3, and all kind of weird actions and big red flags I ignored because she was so into me, and I could do no wrong, she would constantly tell me how no other guy comes close and would admire me constantly and hang on every word . That was the hook, that was the honeymoon along with all the sexual moves and sex, and then suddenly the worm turned. She would make up stories that never happen, or accuse me of flirting, without cause. We would be at restaurants holding hands gazing lovingly in each other eyes and without a word to even ignite anything would just explode to the point that I had to abruptly leave the dinner and put up with her screaming and punching me in the car calling me names etc. Then my next day, this would die. Many , and I mean many things like this would happen, and then she call and ask me to come over and make love to her. The needle from hate to love moved so quickly, back and forth, you walked on eggshells. I would walk away saying this is it she is fucking crazy, and then after 2-3 days I be getting nice calls or calls saying I caused this by not doing this or that and crying that prove I didn’t really love her. Whatever, it was never her fault, always mine. So at times, I was comforting her for feeling sad. (Amazing, isn’t it)

    No matter how nice or even if you apologized for something you didn’t do, it didn’t matter. It was insanity at best yet, I was so hooked, I would passively let it go by waiting for her to returning to her adoring state.

    Bottom line, and I know this sounds stupid, but it is very hard to stay away from these women, whether they break up with you or you them and break ups happened many times without any sense and there is no reasoning with them. It doesn’t matter how calmly and logical it is.

    Again, do not get involved, run like Paul says, but they mess you up so so bad inside your head and soul, that you still have thoughts of returning even knowing it will be the death of you and that’s regardless if your dating or found someone who you really like.

    It just hard to break away and the only way is to cut off everything because they will want you back, they can’t stand it. Whatever they say, is not really true, well maybe for the moment, but it’s nothing more than to manipulate you. You’ll be sorry if you go back. Maybe not in the beginning but trust me, you’ll burn. It’s a very bad drug you need to stay away from. Part of the allure is the fantasy in your own mind about them. They will not change, they cannot change, no matter how nice, or strict or boundaries you may think you can set up. Do not contact them ever!! I made mistakes regarding this and still feeling the pain. Oh yes, you will feel pain, but do not equates this with it’s love and you must return. True love isn’t this. Anyone on these sites that boast they can have a meaningful relationship with these people are wrong. I seen the articles saying you need to do this or that, and don’t give in, and be strong. They are just taking you for a ride, a ride into hell I may add. Remember, BPD women can talk the talk and seem masterful about relationships and things. For the most part they are intelligent!! DON’T TOUCH NO MATTER HOW SMART, HOW ACCOMPLISH, HOW CONFIDENT YOU ARE. IT WILL DESTROY YOU! STAY THE HELL AWAY!

    • itiswhatitis999

      I couldn’t agree with you more. I was involved with one for 4 years and it definitely took its toll on me. I now realize I overlooked many warning signs and that makes me wonder why? This question has me re-examining my whole life and what caused me to get involved and and be so attracted to someone with so many red flags …. The gift of a borderline
      http://www.sharischreiber.com/gift.html

  • johnnysmith

    Dear Mr. Elam and other posters here,

    THANK YOU! and thank you to others for bringing some sense of sanity and humor to my life. Just discovered BPD recently even though I have been dealing with it, against my wishes, for most of my life (I have a strong suspicion my mother suffered from it, which resulted in my low self-esteem, only to marry one bitch on steroids followed by another…). Only after years of therapy, and work on myself have I reached a sane conclusion: it is not me, it is/was them. Well, it was me in the sense that I allowed it, and walked into the minefield with no knowledge of dangers that BPD brings with it. Now I know… wish I knew it sooner.

    However, there is one terrible problem: I am married and have a wonderful son with the evil witch. She is the Master of BPD – highly functional, passive-aggressive, manipulative liar with zero regard for anything good, and all interest in ruining my life and hers in the process, while leaving nice impression on her environment (my only consolation is when she runs into a less nice version of herself in our son’s school or on a playground – oh joy to hear her complain about her own tricks only performed better by others!!!). BTW, who gives a shit about our kid – if she says she loves him, that’s all it takes. Does not matter one bit that he starts stuttering when with her and so on…

    If it were not for our son, I would be out the door in a New York minute. But with the laws the way they are, and her not employed (since 10 years ago), she would get our son, money, and an opportunity to destroy our son with no interference by me. Needless to say, I cannot allow that.

    For now, I have decided to count years, or hope for some sort of poetic justice. In the worst case, in about 10 years, my son will be grown up and we can separate. Then, I will never have to see her or talk to her again. Wow. That will be some f-ing day!

    Any ideas are welcome.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Welcome, and thank you for your comment. I also suggest you visit shrink4men.com for much more info and support on this particular subject. Best wishes. Paul

  • Shawn

    Wow! There is so much BULLSHIT here that I need a pair of boots!!! Truth? Really? Surely you jest!

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Gee, you’re really smart. I love the in depth take down you did of the article; the way you logically dissected every point and contention, offering far more rational and thoughtful commentary than what you were critiquing.

      Oh, and hitting the caps lock on “bullshit.” Priceless.

      Bravissimo, Shawn! You are an intellectual giant. I tip my fedora to you, your progeny and your ancestors.

      • Shawn

        Its not worth it to me to waste my precious time arguing with a fucking idiot who I hope does not treat ANYONE with a mental disorder. If you really want a counter argument to your nonsense, read neutrois’ post again. It says the same things I would say. The definition of prejudice-Making sweeping statements about ALL people in a group based on what a handful of them did.
        I pity you.

        • johnnysmith

          Shawn, do you suffer from BPD? (be honest please)

        • lucid426

          classic aggressive co dependent behaviour here, shawn. trying to defend narcissists, psychopaths and borderlines. you think you are defending something, standing up for the mentally ill. but all you do is defend abusive people, who cannot and will not change. ever. you’re a bit like the nazis, they thought they were great, moral, just people. standing for something, but they kinda, you know, followed a psychopath right into world war. so keep following and defending psychopaths/ ‘borderlines’, little sad co dependent nazi. should probably try to inform yourself instead of acting out of emotional reactions, you do nothing but defend the likes of kiddy diddlers and street hookers. congratulations.

  • johnnysmith

    Just remembered something:

    1990 Ridley Scott film “Thelma and Louise” must be the most disgusting example of the way society pushes PBD values on unsuspecting subjects. I was way younger when I saw it, that was when it first came out, and I was disgusted by it. Even then, I could see the right from wrong – most others could not though.

    I wonder how well it would be received if it were about two male buddies going on a shooting spree against women…

  • Sister

    Thank you for telling it like it is. My older brother and only sibling has BDP, along with a whole nasty slew of other problems that have made a wreckage of his life and those of my parents and grandparents. I have managed to make a very good life for myself, in great part because I moved overseas more than a decade ago, and he remains in North America. We are totally estranged, by my decision. This infuriates him, because I am the only person who has not agreed to allow him to control their lives, I am the only person who has rejected his behavior, who has not allowed him to behave as he does without suffering any consequences.

    Being born into a family with a brother like this has left me with a lot to work out, especially because he is still causing great damage to my family – and he is being permitted to do so by my family members, whose major decisions in life all seem to have been made with an eye toward appeasing him, as opposed to taking care of themselves and of… me, their other child/grandchild. Things were never discussed in my family, and so I was raised with no language to talk about my experience of my family life. I was left to deal with it on my own, which I somehow managed to do. For a long time, I buried it. I could not say his name for years. But when shit really began to hit the fan, I could not keep things buried anymore, and I finally began trying to talk about it. It’s been overwhelmingly difficult for many reasons, not the least of which are my own anger and disgust about what has been permitted to happen in my family, by what he is allowed to do because he is “ill”. He is a complete parasite – all his abuse and aggression and manipulation has been rewarded all his life – he is totally financially supported, doesn’t work, because… he is “ill”.

    I have been looking around on the web and my preliminary searches have uncovered resources that mostly seem to be about understanding BDP and working with it and etc. I do not know anyone else with BPD, but in my brother’s case, I do not think that working with him is appropriate, because his version of reality is so stubbornly divergent from my version – and my version is supported by facts, evidence and reason, whereas his is supported by his wishes and desires, and is essentially a fiction that grows increasingly bizarre and extreme as the years go on.

    I think my brother is beyond help and should be avoided at all costs, because the alternative is to be viciously abused. I think my life and those of my kids are worth more than his, since we are productive, healthy, conscientious members of society who bring good into the world, work hard, and take responsibility for ourselves. I think we should be preserved and he should be left to either start making some better choices about how to behave, or to rot and die in the consequences of abusing other people. But unfortunately there have never been unfavorable consequences to his behavior. I am the only one in my family who has estranged myself from him. I permit him no access to me and none to my children. My policy towards his abuse is zero tolerance. I wish I wasn’t the only one, perhaps things would have turned out better for everyone.

    Anyway, thank you for writing what you did. For me, it was an affirmation of my stance, which I have essentially been holding alone for more than 20 years. I consider this stance to be healthy, justified, and correct, and also necessary for my safety and that of my children. I felt vindicated in this when I read “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker, and now I also feel vindicated in this by what you wrote. I would like to see on the web some spaces that support siblings of people with BPD, and more written accounts by these siblings – especially those of us who have concluded that there is no alternative but to get as far away as possible. I guess I may have to start something myself, one day. Maybe I will. In the meantime, though – thank you!

  • Sister

    I would like to add one more thing. There seems to be a classic book called “Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking your Life Back when Someone You Care About has BPD”. I am looking for a resource that is more about helping a person maintain maximal boundaries when someone she does NOT care about has BPD. I do not care about my brother at all anymore, but I do care about me and my children. I also care about my parents, but they have to take care of themselves and if they do not, that is not my problem to solve – even though I end up having to pay the consequences for their chronic mishandling of things.

    I have a temporary solution here, in that I have placed myself and my kids far away from my dangerous brother. But what about the future, when there are situations in which our paths may have to cross, such as in dealing with health matters for our aging parents, or funerals? Where is the book helping people navigate these waters? I do not want to have anything to do with my brother ever again, I want zero contact. But that may not be possible. So… any thoughts?

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

    Yeah, people who inflict incalculable harm on anyone that comes into contact with them often suffer from being “stigmatized.”

    Blow it out your pie hole.

    • buddy1226

      Your description in this piece is dead on. In the last 18 months I have been destroyed by what I believe to be the devil incarnate. The false allegations and the part about being able to enlist others to further their cause to do damage is something I am unable to comprehend.

      This has messed me up really bad and I’m a shell of the man I was before I met her. I never thought a woman could cause this much destruction in my life. I thought i was better than this. Why I ignored a million red flags is beyond me. She destroyed me once and i let her back to finish the job a second time. There is no remorse whatsoever either and I was good to this evil bitch. I treated her like a queen and put up with her abuse because I felt sorry for her because of her childhood but truth be known she was a major source or trouble from age 12.

      I’m left to pick up the pieces from this devastation and I still and hung up on her. I still want her. Someone slap some sense into me, please!

      • Fredrik

        You can keep on letting her into your life, or you can have a chance of future happiness. They are mutually exclusive. Choose wisely. /slap

  • JumpinJackFlash

    This ignorant, ill informed, bitter, misogynistic, hate filled rant came from a mental health “professional”???

    God help us….as if there weren’t already enough of a stigma attached to poor mental health. For your information, the two most severe cases of BPD I have ever observed were in young men, one of whom had mutilated his own body so severely that there was barely an inch of him not covered in scars, and another whose repeated overdoses left him partially blind.

    Whilst working as a student nurse on a gynae ward, we saw a female BPD patient who came in almost weekly needing surgery due to inserting sharp objects with force into her own vagina. One thing is for certain; ALL of those individuals were acutely disturbed, and suffering greatly due to BPD.

    How DARE you trivialise and ridicule other people’s mental suffering, and then call yourself a “professional”!!

    I was diagnosed with BPD many years ago, and let me tell you now it is REAL, and it EXISTS. Feeling like you could conquer the world one minute, then wanting to slit your wrists the next, strange, frightening, and bizarre thoughts that you cannot control or explain, depression that leaves you barely able to even function, and feelings of despair and shame when you come out of one of these emotional hurricanes and realise the damage you have done…trust me, it is not a fun way to live for anybody involved.

    The attitude of mental health “professionals” towards BPD, and many other conditions never ceases to appal me….we had a schizophrenic guy on a general ward the other day who was supposedly under the “care” of two mental health “nurses” who ended up jumping out of a 5th floor window because these two “professionals” were more concerned about getting their pay sheets signed rather than actually caring for their patient. I observed another RMN tell a Bi-Polar woman that if she lashed out at us again she would “hit her”!? How the hell do people with such attitudes ever get employed in the first place?!

    BPD can and does improve, but the person has to ACCEPT they have a problem, and WANT to recover, which takes serious hard work. If the BPD sufferer has a co-morbid illness, i.e. depression, or psychosis, then medication can be used alongside dialectical behavioural therapy, or mentalisation based therapy.

    I am living proof that BPD gets better; at 17 I was in and out of jail and hospital, abusing drugs, and self harming regularly. At 32 I am now better and happier than I’ve been in years.

    Two of the most essential qualities for nursing (or medicine) are compassion and empathy, both of which you very clearly LACK, and therefore should probably never have entered either profession.

    The kind of bitterness you display in your blog is classic of a guy who has been involved with too many GENUINELY BAD, and TRASHY women because he allowed parts of his anatomy other than his brain to do the thinking when selecting a partner.

    Your poor judgement of character does not give you the right to demonise sufferers of BPD just because you had a few bad experiences of people who claimed to have it. In my experience, most TRUE sufferers of this condition feel genuine and deep remorse for their actions, and genuinely WANT to improve themselves and recover.
    Your “no scientific evidence for this condition” argument is also flawed…..a part of the brain called the amygdala which is involved in the regulation of emotional responses is thought to be defective in BPD patients.
    Google it. That’s probably where you get most of your other “education”……..

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      If you put paragraph breaks in your comment I might read it.

      • JumpinJackFlash

        Oh I’m terribly sorry, no excuse for poor paragraphing, is there?

    • lucid426

      misogynistic, nice ad hominem. set up another straw man while you’re at it. theres tonnes of Women here posting about their horrible experience with ‘borderline’ people. sit down.

  • garytech67

    As a victim of BPD, I can say my life, children, family, friends were in a living hell. The signs were all there from the start but not being educated will leave an everlasting wtf was I thinking moment. I got the full on effect from the start until the end.

    . 7 years of marriage to a BPD will leave you broken, financially ruined, relationships shattered, children in broken shells as most know here you will have to rebuild from the start.

    I hope most have the strength and I wish them the best recovery. It has taking me 2 years of understanding what she did, and why she did those things. I am diff a static like most on here. The laws in this country need or should I say should be required to change. Its really bad when a BPD uses the laws against their partner..

    I’m on my second relationship since the divorce, and I find it applauding that most women use emotional tactics to control men. I ran from the first relationship to much jealously and alcohol. I see a pattern of how women in this country can get away with absolutely anything. I’m close to calling off the new relationship due to many emotional swings. I’m beginning to realize as a society this is a norm and completely acceptable for women to behave in such manners.

    I believe in the near future all high school students will have to be educated on what is a healthy relationship looks like.

    As far as I go…..I’ve been to anger management, domestic violence, 2 course of family and marriage, 4 courses in sociology Please educate yourself, so you know when its time to get out. I read a post in here where a guy say BPD’s can get better, but at what cost to everyone around them? I am no expert but shouldn’t there be a law in place to protect the victims of BPD?

    If you come across my rant, please read about what happened to one of the kennedy’s yes the camelot family. I was in a marriage just like that and lashed out by pushing her to leave the house and did I pay for that mistake by being publicly humiliated and so on……………. . again best wishes to your health

    • mantooth

      A law to protect victims of BPD? Yes an ignorance law. Maybe you didn’t know this person well enough when you married them. It’s true that it’s scummy for someone to break a social maxim, and these people should be outed. You sound like you got issues yourself. It does really take two to tango, being an enabler to that kind of stuff is bad too. Soon theyll have a name for a disorder that describes the People Who Enable People with BPD and Fall In Love With Fundamentally Broken Emotional Wrecks. It’ll be called PWEPBFILWFBEW

      • garytech67

        so your playing the bpd card to get arise out of me.
        from your posts that i have read you surly have not been saved from yourself and everyone around your destructive path. like i said if youre not educated or experience. the bpd mask will stay strong and hide who they truly are behind that mask. yes there should be a law that recognizes these behaviors and protect ppl that have know ideal a train is about to run them over. i can tell you the bpd knows the other person is running from their insanity and uses the courts to torment them.

      • mantooth

        I was just making the point that those kinds of laws are the kind of laws used to prohibit people’s freedom in the guise of “rights”. I really don’t like the idea of child support laws either because alot of people get hurt because child protective services and the court are used for petty vendetta’s without the childrens’ interest involved.

        In America it used to be legal to lock your wife up from hearsay, or anyone questionable, we don’t need anymore laws that help people be kidnapped or alienated for being different. I’ve been the victim of people using the court for personal vendetta’s that were more emotional than anything and it sucks.

        I also just don’t want people to assume just because someone has been diagnosed with a disorder doesn’t mean they ARE that disorder. Some people let it define them. I understand you are bitter and need to vent your frustration, especially if you are still living in the wake of this bad relationship.

        Your Oversimplified views of people and lack of compassion worry me. Alot of people like that worry me. It sounds like she put you through the ringer. You sound like you got taken advantage of and you might just be a really nice guy who is generous.

        Good luck, anyone who stays with someone as long as you did to work out bad ish is either a saint or dumb as a box of rocks. I don’t know if you are the former or the latter or somewhere in between. It’s frustrating to live with the stigma associated with BPD that is proliferated by people with lack of empathy and understanding.

        Oversimplified views of people and lack of compassion worry me.Not everyone has the same level of dysfunction or symptoms. Just like how some people with asthma can do hard cardio workouts and some can’t.

        Be kind; Everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
        -Plato

      • sssojourn .

        Mantooth ? ” really ! ” . Maybe if the BP Person wasen,t hiding who they truly are, and was up front and honest , you might have a point as to it being there partners fault for them not recognizing it. Pointing the finger of blame is a HUGE BPD trait, god forbid you take some accountability for yourself and your actions. ” iam worried about the lack of compassion ? ” ” is that a joke ?” You the bpd are complaining about people with out empathy ? ,Yes , it’s the normal persons fault – those friggin normal people are alway screwing up the bp,s life- maybe we should have a law condemning normal people ?,you would love that wouldn’t you ? We will call the law- GOFUCKYOURSELFYOUPHONNYFOOL. I will be contacting the legislature shortly to see if I can have that passed – please be patient, as it’s a very serious decision they will be making. Please hold.

  • mantooth

    The tone of this article is bitter, and for a reason. But it’s no reason to write the other person off entirely, Especially if they show insight and depth pertaining to their disorder. All the insight and depth in the world will do nothing without action and support though.

    I am a person who fits the bill for BPD. It wasn’t until I nearly 13 years after being this way that I noticed my behavior pattern and seriously took responsibility for my own web of shit I created. The fights, the deep cutting, the emotional blackmail. Which was a shame because I wasted alot of time on self-pity, blame-games, and medications I had no business taking that really made things worse. I think that’s a big part of BPD. People who start out with some mood disorders with a few other minor problems; they get disenchanted by the psychiatric system.

    I have a hard time believing that BPD is legit as well. I think it’s just there for lack of a better term. I guess, though like alcoholism, it is a personality disorder. Something that has a good prognosis if dealt with but will always be lingering in your basal ganglia somewhere depending on how long and how pervasive the symptoms have become. It’s an extremely tough thing to deal with and usually ties in with learned helplessness.

    Most of the women I’ve dated long term have had strikingly similar symptoms. Yes I am a male. So it’s been alot of years of fog and dysfunctional relationships, being blacmailed, blackmailing, being stabbed multiple times by my significant others(not to say I didn’t embrace the conflicts leading up to these incidents). At times when I was able to manage my symptoms, I would seek out other people with similar problems and play the role of caretaker, but never for long before I would get fed up.

    It’s an extremely one sided game people with “BPD.” It was very very tough for me to admit to myself and out myself to my loved one’s how much I had been jerking them around emotionally even if some of them had known I was an asshole. It’s basically like an emotional child in a world of adults. I know how to better regulate my emotions, but I have no illusion of control over hard worn habits. I still can’t be in relationships because it becomes nothing but trouble and I tend to use people and become very codependent.

    With that said, it’s frustrating as fuck to be with someone who has BPD, who has absolutely no depth or insight into their own fucked up coping skills. Two people like that shouldn’t really be together anyway unless they both can handle themselves and function reasonably. It’s always this tit for tat game of dominance brought on by pity pimping and bouts of anger. It’s a waste of emotional stamina and for those who are with someone like that who is just completely dense and stubborn; not willing to confront themselves.

    Like I said, some people learn to manage themselves better, just as with any disorder. I struggle to this day, but there is more control. It’s a matter of threshold. I think in the future, we are going to be seeing alot more obscure disorders like these that are wide-encompassing.

  • lynch03

    Dialectal Behavioral Therapy is an evidenced based treatment for borderline personality disorder

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2963469/

    Furthermore depression does cloud judgement and decision making ( do i really need a reference for this)

    Secondly, you come off as a condescending asshole, mental health disorders are way more complicated and layered then you seem to think they are.

  • dealingwithit

    So, I stumbled upon this article while trying to do a little research. I was served with papers from an individual with BPD who I treated for a long time; However, I did not directly notice the BPD until splitting happened and she was already on the path of destruction. I am just so terribly overwhelmed with the whole thing and it is effecting my entire life. She is claiming I victimized her in every way, you can imagine…when all I tried to ever do; was tirelessly help her. I feel so scared of her and I am having a hard time seeing my other clients and maintaing my other work, because I am so on edge, freaked out and honestly, pissed!!!…I just am glad I found this article and guess I needed to vent a little! It’s just not fair, that people can bring a lawsuit against you because they say they are victims when they really are the perpetrator. UGH!!! I would love any words of wisdom or encouragement. Family and friends that haven’t dealt with this are like; “wow that’s crazy” but, they don’t really understand the turmoil caused. I am actually even scared that by posting this I will have some sort of backlash the whole thing has just made me paranoid.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Sorry to hear of your struggles. There are many in this community that know from personal experience the kinds of things you are experiencing. I would also like to suggest shrink4men.com as another community of people who are no stranger to what you are going through. Hang in there, and hang around.

      • dealingwithit

        Thank you! I am actually a woman…didn’t even think to mention that…but, will def check out anyway! Thanks again, I am just such a mess over it.

        • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

          Your sex doesn’t matter. Borderlines are equal opportunity destroyers. I also want to reiterate a visit to shrink4men. Dr. Palmatier knows her stuff and has written scores of exceptional articles on this subject. They are mainly written for men that are experiencing the wrath of personality disordered women, but she has female readers and clients because the experiences are universal.

          • dealingwithit

            OK awesome, I will! Thank you!

    • garytech67

      use your records, and make no contact if you do have contact (which BPD’s will harass) use a video recorder, she is out for blood they bpd’s only know how to destroy, she feels you abandon her. the courts arent stupid but remember they have to take everything serious and by not following the law the judge or pros will lose their seats or be sued by your predator. read an article in shrink4men about the kennedys….then get a lawyer. oh yes be afraid ask your lawyer to get a gag order and a protection order against her……if you dont she will smear your name and a lot more…..she is already 3 steps ahead….just remember your not the first or last person she has done this toooo!!!!!!

      • dealingwithit

        UGH I feel sick! Yes, she did think I abandoned her…it all started with me saying I was going on a months vacation. I haven’t had contact in a long time…and stopped replying to her craziness, which of course led to more attacking and ultimately this. I am just afraid that I didn’t document correctly, or am forgetting things, it sucks! Thank you though I will check the article out and appreciate your advice. It seriously is nice though to have you guys understand, what I am talking about. I unfortunately was naive, didn’t recognize it for what it was and was so fresh in the industry and just wanting to help people and thinking everyone could be helped, harsh, cold reality that, that is not the case and this is a very painful lesson to have to learn.

  • rockingyog

    To Paul Elam:
    1. Hats off for all your years of efforts you have taken to study about BPD and for doing so much research on this subject.otherwise it is very difficult to make such a confident and generic statements.
    2. Also it is great that you were not at all fucked up by a Borderline women just before writing this article therefore definitely your article can not be biased at all.
    3. Your solutions is so accurate that it will solve problems of all the victims. Anyways who cares about Borderlines even if they are someone’s mother,sister,daughter,wife or friend. after all they are Borderlines and its purely their mistake how they are so they deserve to suffer.
    4. I think all the researchers who are working on to find concrete causes and treatments for BPD are just wasting their time.They should read your article, afterall you are a doctor and not any common man also without years of research no one can derive such a wonderful conclusion “Get away from them!!”
    5. Best thing is without being Borderline you exactly and accurately knows how they feel inside when they gets attack. I don’t know how you achieved this but it tells that you are masterpiece who can actually understand pain going inside the mind of Borderlines.

  • educateyourselfbeforeyouspeak

    I’m a Clinical Psychologist and this article is NOTHING but the ramblings of an uneducated and bitter individual. Yes, some mental illnesses (BPD included) can cause people to harm others, but that doesn’t make the illness less real or less painful for the sufferer. This article is merely a person unable to handle people with mental illness releasing steam (which is perfectly fine… but NO NEED TO BASH PEOPLE WITH BPD). I know it’s difficult to deal with these people, but it doesn’t mean they are evil or hopeless. For example: You wouldn’t call a mentally retarded woman evil for throwing a fit in the middle of a store because her mental incapacity is not her fault.

    In addition, BPD isn’t defined in 1 particular way as you described it. There are some individuals filled with rage (as you described), but others are instead just depressed and hopeless. With ANY mental illness you can’t generalize entire groups of people based on an exact idea of what an illness means to you. Every single individual is unique. There are 9 criterion for BPD and an individual must meet 5 of them to be officially diagnosed according to the DSM. If those 5 don’t include anger for an individual, this kills your entire theory. I have worked with many BPD patients and I’d estimate about 60% experienced uncontrollable anger and about 40% did not. So you basically just completely insulted 40% of patients who don’t even fall into that category. You’re going off of a poorly backed-up stigma and its just sad. This just reminds me of why I teach seminars in schools on mental illness. Its because of people like you who are going around spreading ignorance.

    Also, you can’t speak for these people unless you are inside their heads or are in a mental health field. Many patients do want to get better. Even for BPD patients its TIRING and DRAINING being angry all of the time. So many of them just don’t want to suffer anymore. They are angry for reasons which psychologists must investigate through extensive psychoanalysis. There is always something causing that anger. That something is usually something causing them inner pain.

    Lastly, many people with BPD have very painful pasts. I am fully aware that the cause of BPD isn’t fully understood yet, but in my experience and in many of my colleagues’ experience, this has been the case. However, like I said every individual is unique. I am not saying that all have painful pasts… I am only saying that in my personal experience I have found that it frequently correlates to BPD.

    http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=20075&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=44745

    http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=Borderline_Personality_Disorder_(BPD)&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=81017

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      How many clinical psychologists use the term “mentally retarded” anymore?

      Anyway: Paul’s background is in psychology, although his specialization was in substance abuse treatment. In any case, it would be much easier to have sympathy for borderlines if they showed genuine remorse for their victims and their behavior and a firm commitment to change. What percentage of this population do you find can do all three of those?

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com August Løvenskiolds

      If your reading and comprehension skills are so poor that you conflate “mental retardation” (an archaic term now replaced by “intellectual disability”) with BPD then your credentials as a Clinical Psychologist have been overwhelmed by your gynocentrism. Those with intellectual disability don’t understand why their behavior is wrong; those with BPD revel in their comprehension of their cruelty.

      If folks with BPD “suffer” it is only from the damage that they have unintentionally caused themselves by their deliberately cruel and callous actions toward others – actions that are voluntary and undertaken despite their full capability of distinguishing right and wrong.

      BPD behavior should treated in the same way we treat ax murderesses – by avoiding them, and locking them away if the law permits.

      Oh, and that crap about “painful pasts”? You have been manipulated by the BPD sob stories if you believe that without outside verification of their spurious claims – many of which involve false accusations against innocent men.

      Learn this mantra, and repeat it often: “BPD women are fully responsible and capable adults who should be held accountable for the evil they spew.”

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

      Your sympathetic assessment of the personality disordered might actually appear unbiased if you didn’t introduce it with an ad hominem attack on the personality of the psych professional whose article you are dismissing out of hand.

    • sojourn

      I,am good and compassionate person, this I know. For every one bpd person there’s a pile of destroyed lives behind them, physically , mentally, emotionally, and financially .
      The people complaining about this article ,are either bpd or clinicians who have not felt there wrath. (yet). Do you also feel for the psychopath ? As they to have a personality disorder, and most are very charming when they want or need something.

      In my personal opinion the high functioning bpd is the most dangerous person in our society today, as they are protected and enabled by our court systems , family court where there false allegations of rape and alike is common occurrence . Many bpd flock to these positions of authority like child molesters are to schools.

      Bpd in my opinion, and the opinion of some others is a mix bag of all mental illnesses combined in one person, psychopathy, bpd, bp, sociopathy,, narcissist , this is why it is so hard to diagnose , combined with the fact that they HIDE ,or are in severe denial of there problem ( MASK ) who they are. While destroying everyone around them in a mask of innocence.
      I blame the majority of this condition on bad parenting skills/ over indulged and under indulged with the luck of the draw. Spoiled and or abused.

      I find it really ironic that these people cry foul while dishing out all the twisted pain and suffering to anyone around. Then trying to suck up sympathy to anyone who is stupid enough to listen.

      • dealingwithit

        Yeah so I worked with someone; misdiagnosing the BPD for PTSD: “what a poor, poor, victim” I would think to myself.

        “How on earth could someone have such a terrible life”

        “I need to help her”

        Sure, I was young and eager to help all people and all problems…I mean I even remember a professor in Grad school saying “if you get a person with BPD, refer them out” I was appalled, I thought “OMG, who will work with them? How sad…that can’t be right everyone can get better.”

        Boy was I fucking retarded…I bent over backwards trying to help someone and now guess what? Now my life is basically destroyed; because this person decided; I no longer helped her and was “manipulating her”…me: “what, why? are you insane?” Yeah they are. As rational human beings we cannot see things through their eyes…but, they also can’t see them outside of their fucked up vision…awe, how sad, what poor victims they are.

        Sorry, compassion only goes so far!!! This site I believe to be a somewhat support site for people who have, in fact, actually been “victimized” by the people who love to use that word the most. It is not a site to help people with BPD…sorry…Go somewhere else!

        Also, people who seem to be all in uproar about the feminine thing…I get it, I am a female, but, it does not negate the fact that most people with this disorder are female; it’s just simply a fact. I am not offended by the whole fact this is pointed at females…because it’s pointed at females with BPD and they just happen to be “crazy fucking assholes!” Period.

        If you are someone with BPD and you truly want help or to better yourself; use these examples to recognize the hell you can cause to people and take it on as your responsibility to stop yourself from being like others with BPD. It’s simply the inability to take responsibility…that ends up creating the worst.

        Uggghhh…ok, I could go on and on…but, I can only take so much talk about BPD and how sad is for them; before I feel like I might vomit.

    • lucid426

      yeah, no you’re not.

    • lucid426

      yeah, no you’re not.

    • Elza

      Thank you <3

      • lucid426

        you know what you are similar to? a nazi. the nazis thought they were doing great things, supporting someone awesome and misunderstood.
        keep your little bubble of denial and delusional affirmations as to your victimhood close, its going to be harder to maintain as this information becomes widespread to the public. poor baby.. lol you poor ignorant shit.

        may others targeted find joy in the fact that borderlines/ psychopaths will never be happy, never have real love or have the empathy, never do anything meaningful or change the world. they are 100% useless, selfish and irrelevant. once educated about the severity of their pathology, just ignore them as the little barking chihuahuas they are.

    • Object

      ‘I’m a Clinical Psychologist and this article is NOTHING’

      Stinking up the place, smells like BPD to me

  • gms4141

    I am in this hell, married to her with children. I need to get out. What will the courst do with the kids. I am a man. Will they side with me or teh crazy mother who is screwing them up.

    • garytech67

      I hope you have documented everything. Get a lawyer have him ask for a phys test based off your documents/recordings etc….. It will be hard, she is already years ahead of you. Everything that will embarrass you she will bring up. she will send your family,work,friends and anybody else she can involve letters of what you said or didnt say. If you have pets or material items protect them all. Since you have kids you will be her life long target of abuse, she will call social service on you also. Money separate everything now, if she is employed she will quit her job and use the kids or say that your the abusive one. when you get a lawyer make sure you do a depiction and every day life and events. good luck!!! you will need it . all the above happened to me and I was not prepared and got my ass handed to me. But there is only one thing you must do when you leave absolutely have no contact with her without someone present and record all conversations. the court system will be stacked against you all the way to the bitter end. remember that the judge seats on a seat and wont put himself/herself on the line for you.

  • Maxsymons

    I am a man I am 26 and have BPD. I would like to say that I found this article after a Google search that involved me trying to better my condition. I will be more specific I searched BPD and paranoia in the hope of finding some good advice and coping mechanisms to deal with this problem. I found your page and feel very hurt and sad at what I have read. The bit that gets me the most is the quote that we enjoy what we do….. Well I am sure my friend Sue who also suffered with BPD must have enjoyed it so much that she couldn’t handle the joy anymore which is why she killed herself two years ago. I have been in a relationship for three years. Over the course of this three year relationship my girlfriend has experienced the quintessential BPD relationship. She stood by me and offered tirelessly all the things you say do not work including: Kindness, wisdom, love and patience. She has stood by me because she loves me and sees in me from day one the man inside without BPD. She is an angel, I am better and we are both very happy. I would like to say to all with BPD not to take any notice of this spiteful article. You can get better, you can be happy; you can make others happy you need to look at this article as a motivation to prove the world wrong. I would like to say this to the nasty author who with his education and profession should know better… NEVER TRY TO TAKE AWAY PEOPLES HOPE AND SELF RESPECT….. THIS ARTICLE IS ABUSE! YOU ARE NO BETTER THEN THE CARICATURE YOU HAVE DESCRIBED…. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED AS MANY WITH BPD DO…. HOWEVER IM SURE YOU ENJOYED WRITING THIS ABUSIVE ARTICLE MUCH LIKE HOW YOU SAY PEOPLE WITH BPD ENJOY WHAT THEY DO.

    • Elza

      ^What he said <3 I'm right there with ya buddy. I feel hurt because I
      know this is the viewpoint of so many. Have you seen this "Paul Elam's" site though? Disgusting. And so much hatred toward women too. This guy's opinion means nothing.

      • lucid426

        actually elsa, its your opinion who means nothing, for you to say this guys opinion means nothing, your perspective has to actually count, you know, be objective. its not. if this site/blog meant nothing, you’d feel no need to defend borderlines, just ignore it and move on. must be some kind of threat huh. pretend you are afraid of stigmatization and wah wah wah all you want. you’re afraid of this information becoming more and more public [which it is! :) unfortunately for you sick fuck abusers (borderlines) this information is becoming common knowledge, you won’t be able to hide your pathology. your best bet is to relax and try to behave like a decent human being.. but no no, further prove the point of this article by unleashing a poorly written temper tantrum of promethean proportions, projecting and crying victim at every turn. don’t worry, we will not go away exposing your bullshit lies and projections and denial. and I will personally continue to inform the world in various ways about sick fuck abuser personality disordered individuals as long as i live, ( and oh, I’m young )and theres not a damn thing you can do about it. have a nice day.

        • Elza

          Hmmmm…you just confirmed my original thoughts. It’s you, sir, who isn’t being objective. I am being quite reasonable without any anger in my tone. Good luck “informing the world.” I think you will find most people don’t listen to your point of view when you are barking and angry.

          • lucid426

            sorry, i don’t read replies from the personality disordered. have a nice day friend :)

          • Elza

            Oh good! I’m so glad you’ve made it perfectly clear that it’s you who is prejudiced and non objective. Otherwise you would listen to all sides of the story, whether or not you disagree. That’s what being objective is. I never said borderlines can’t be manipulating and abusive. But they aren’t throw aways. Nobody is! And there is hope and I’m so so tired of dogmatic and blind opinions that prevent people from seeing and finding a way out.
            People seeking help…check out Mentalization on YouTube. I don’t know much about DBT but I hear it’s changed a lot of lives.
            …bye bye Paul. Don’t fret. You no longer need to pretend your not reading my “personality disordered” posts. Which honestly made me giggle and has still left an amused grin on my face :D

          • lucid426

            yup, I didn’t read that one either brut I bet I can reply just as well. I’m sure its full of how mean i am, projections and how you are such victims. ill save my sympathy for actually mentally ill people who can’t help it. not borderlines/ narcissists / psychopaths. borderlines are posers, you don’t suffer 5 % the amount you cause. so keep talking to yourself because they only people who will agree with what you are saying are borderlines / narcissists / psychopaths.. maybe some delusional co dependents who’s opinion is equally invalid. i hope you continue to prove my point and make a further fool of yourself. have yourself a great day (again) :)

    • Elza

      ^What he said <3 I'm right there with ya buddy. I feel hurt because I
      know this is the viewpoint of so many. Have you seen this "Paul Elam's" site though? Disgusting. And so much hatred toward women too. This guy's opinion means nothing.

    • Surreal

      After a 3 year relationship with a BPD male I can tell you that it nearly and utterly destroyed me. I’m sorry you have found this article offensive but the reality is that the kind of damage BPD’s do to us is so out of this world that no one could possibly believe it unless they lived it. As for me I thought my ex and I were made for each other until that is the abuse, distortions, constant over reacting to NOTHING, accusations, policing, rages, crazy jealousy, volatile mood swings, instant emotional dysregularity, verbal abuse, acting out violent behaviors, transference of fear, constant push and pull, violent twisting of the truth or real circumstances to make it look like I was guilty of what ever he was accusing me of, intelligent manipulative emotional and mental manipulation and all under the guise of him just being very sensitive. (anyway the list is endless) I wasn’t allowed to defend myself or get mad back because if so I was rendered guilty. My God I’m giving you the cartoon version of the hell I have endured and literally survived but at the price of me suffering PTSD and all types of re-ignited childhood core traumas that somehow got transferred to me while he goes onto his next victim who he hopes is a more material version of me and his new found love shopping shopping sprees. Meanwhile I have appointments booked to see a psychiatrist, counselor and psychologist. Seriously the kind of damage BPD’s do is so malevolent that they manage to get deep inside our souls and then they begin vivisecting us while we are very much alive. Maybe you are a rare person suffering with BPD (I’m sure anything is possible and I’m happy you found a good woman) but my ex continually told me how sensitive he was and how much he cared for people blah blah blah yet he was blind sided by the amount of abuse he was putting me through.

      To this day he will still say that he doesn’t want to let me go and that he still loves me even though he is reinventing himself to suit his lifestyle now without me. I don’t even know who he is and maybe I never did. 3 years and all I have to show for it is a near break down……….well I’m healing quickly and soon I shall be starting a real new life…………..bye bye Mr. Crazy Ex BPD Mindfucker of all time……….no hard feelings of course :)

  • Joe canton

    Most women 40 and under have BPD or some form of it this made up condition. BPD is not a disorder. BPD is basically society raising a lot of women and letting them believe they are children and can get away with everything. so…that’s what they do. absolute power corrupts absolutely and that’s what women have now. They have no controls, nobody to tell them no to anything anymore, nobody to keep them from going bananas. They’re out of control assholes. They are 2 year olds in a adult body with immense power. Not all of them but do you have the time and money to find the 10% that aren’t? then 1 of that 10% you’re attracted to and get along with? think about it? that’s thousands of dates and thousands of dollars. You’ll be 60 before you find one if then and broke or in jail or ruined from one of these encounters. I don’t have that amount of time or resources. I tried but went…I’m spinning my wheels and wasting money. You actually have better odds going overseas to look for sane women. A lot of those women overseas have had hard lives. sometimes abuse but, they still are very nice and do not fall back on the BPD because they didn’t have a perfect life. They figure that’s just life (sounds like the rational thinking of men doesn’t it?) and they move on to better things….with you without playing the victim card.

    I was with someone with BPD and experienced all that you all have and more. The rage, the court battles, the constant harassment, the embarrassment to my self esteem that I was letting it happen. Then I wised up. Not going to find it in the west, most women are broken today in the west. Stayed single and for the cost of a few meaningless dates with psycho women went overseas. The philippines to be exact. found a wonderful woman around my age and it’s been 5 years..not 1 fight, not 1 blow up, not one anything. Dinner on the table when I’m finished from work and she’s happy to do it for me because…get this….she says that’s what women are suppose to do TAKE CARE OF THEIR SPOUSE. I take care of her. I pay the bills. Now if you are going to do this you have to not put on blinders and think some 20 year old filipina loves you if you’re 45 and fat. You have to apply the same principles of attraction as in the west and ask her the very hard questions and push her to observe her emotions and tactics. However like I said for the small price and hassle of going through immigration it’s well worth it. The odds are astronomically better. An immigration study was done where over 80% of western men and foreign women marriages still are going strong after 10 years. Head my warning young men…go east for women.

    Also…get this. When you bring your wife to the US they sit her down at immigration and try to indoctrinate her into feminism. they give her literature on domestic abuse, who to call, what to do, call the police….everything to try to change her! My wife went…why in the hell are they giving me all this crap? what’s wrong with women in your country? I just smiled and went…don’t know but don’t worry about it.

    You’ll also have to get used to all those women with these so called BPD or personality disorders trying to belittle you…Oh you married an asian woman because you’re weak, can’t handle a real woman, blah, blah, blah. Just smile and leave it to some white knight to get his life ruined and don’t even respond. You won’t have to and if you do this, you’ll know why. Did I also mention they tend to not get hugely obese like western women? I have no idea why guys just don’t get it over here. stop dating these bitches and take the red pill and think outside the box. If something isn’t working….CHANGE. look elsewhere. very far if you have to. not just another state. go east young men and enjoy your life.

  • maimed4life

    Old best friend from high school came to visit me from out of state last Christmas. We hooked up again online. I might add, that I financed 1/2 the costs of her trip. Long story short, she invited me to come live with her, even wanting to take some of my things with her upon returning on her holiday trip to expedite the move. She indicated in emails, phone calls, that her sister, whom I hadn’t seen since she was ten years old, was getting more involved with her own daughters and an expected grandchild, and didn’t seem to be available for her friendship anymore. I didn’t think anything of it until later. Many emails later, I quit my (hated) job, sold most of my household – at a loss, hired a Craigslist mover, and moved to friend’s state. Considerable $$ outlay, and loss of true value of my possessions at yard sale. I incurred total costs for the move.

    The mover and I had gotten friendly on the trip, and arrive after a 12 hour drive. Very chilly reception. The mover raised her eyebrows, and looked at me funny. She later asked me if this person had been expecting me. I chalked it up to the early morning hour for my cold reception.

    Come to find out, this ‘move’ was a huge triangulation maneuver on friend’s part to anger her sister. From the outset, she would complain about her sister, maligning her, etc. I didn’t get involved, just thought it queer, and wondered why sister would never speak to me. A couple weeks after I moved in, as a paid tenant, I suggested I make other arrangements, as I could see there was some really strange negative dynamic going on here, and I didn’t want to interfere with her family relationship. Oh no! I’m just imagining things. And by the way, it’s probably because she told her sister 30 years ago that I’d slept with their father. Umm…why? Because she thought I had, but don’t worry about it, her father denied it.

    I’m pretty much in an unfamiliar city, unemployed, and can’t really afford to move back to my old state at this time. I don’t drive – I’m epileptic. Not really a hardship, a grocery store is right next door, but employment is another issue.

    She cuts her hair like mine. Starts dressing like me, buys similar if not identical outfits. Am I veering into Single White Female land?

    It wasn’t long until she switches off and pairs up with the sister against me. Uh, what? Never having sisters, I’d never encountered this triangulation chick shit. There’s three sisters in that family, and apparently they do this all the time with each other. Now I’m getting concerned…I’m still in a foreign city, isolated, limited funds. Add to that, I’d witnessed her raging – just flat out raging – against several of her neighbors. Screaming in public. At least eight different instances in two months. Neighbors won’t even talk or make eye contact with her. I’m being blamed for silly things that I’m not responsible for, many times. Her father kicks her out of his house for raging against her sister at family reunion. The offhand sniping starts. Concern level rises.

    She has a Chihuahua that she’s, well, crazy about. She starts feeding her homemade dog food after I arrive. She notices some beef jerky in my room and accuses me of feeding it to her dog. Um, no, I’m not. It’s too expensive to feed to a dog, and I don’t feed her dog anyway. She mentions the dog has a past hx of electrolyte imbalances. Dog gets severely constipated, and she starts giving human enemas to this poor thing. Same day the dog gets really sick, she drops $100 at the grocery store on herself. This is a normal weekly expense. When she finally admits the dog needs a vet, she complains that she can’t afford it. The vet’s diagnosis? The dog is severely dehydrated from the enemas. Constipation could be from the homemade dog food. Friend admits she’s ashamed of ‘poisoning’ her dog with her homemade organic dog food. Later, I’m accused of poisoning her dog.

    A couple of months after I arrive, she puts her house up for sale. Very odd. Find out later she’s skipping out on unapproved renovations to her house that the HOA not only paid for, but she got done because she was on the board. They fire her twice from the HOA board, and are going after her for the $$.

    We go apt. hunting, and of course, it’s entirely her choice of where/what we will be moving to. I’m a quiet and passive person, I just went with the flow. I’m kind of out of options here.

    We move to the new apt, of course she gets the master suite – about 30% more room. I had no problem with that – I’ve sold all my furniture! No, the rent ratio doesn’t change from half/half. I don’t mention it – I let it slide. She tells me the day before how she wants my boxes out on the sidewalk for the movers, then she starts bitching at me the next day for doing so. The day we move in, she and her sister are battering me back and forth like a pinata. It seemed that every time she saw or was with her sister, was when she abused me most. The FIRST DAY of living in new place (as equal partners now on shared lease), she storms down to office and tries to break the lease. Why? Because I finally asserted myself and took equal kitchen & fridge space, which I hadn’t enjoyed before. Did I mention she has an over-eating disorder, and will literally consume an entire fridge worth of food in a week? She moves much of her stuff back out of the new unit the next day to storage. This goes back and forth several times. The neighbors are getting an eyeful. The apt. mgr tells me friend told her I had said and done things that she actually did. That’s when it sank in something is really, really wrong with this person.

    On top of rent, we shared utility expenses. She pays electricity, I pay water, and we split the costs. The water and electricity monthly bills are within $3-5 dollars of each other, so it’s basically a wash. After her scene with trying to break the lease, I’m extremely leery of her paying the rent. In fact, she has threatened NOT to pay the rent, because the property mgr. doesn’t care where the dollars are coming from. So, I decide I’ll reconcile all the bills at the end of the month at rent time, and chances are there will only be a couple of bucks exchanging hands. She has a raging hissy fit, because I won’t pay her electricity bill when it comes in. Of course not, I’ll likely never see a ½ payment on my water bill from her – she’s gonna be long gone.

    I start staying in my room to get away from her. Her (cowering) dog cries outside my door. Friend comes to me literally crying, to please let the dog in my room because the dog misses me so. She soon accuses me of poisoning her dog. I think she was jealous her dog preferred my company.

    She and her sister fight a lot. Her sister told her “Everybody in our family hates you!!!” This is really how this family talks to each other. Later, she tells me the same exact thing. Then again, it’s upgraded to MY family hates me too. She further tells me I have no friends. Huh? I just moved here from out of state, and you’ve introduced me to exactly one person.

    I refused to fight with her. I just sat quietly in awe. It’s like watching a psychotic break in real time. I can’t believe people actually act this way. I’m getting regular nasty mails, I’m getting sick and developing severe shakes anticipating her arrival at home at night.

    After 6 weeks of daily raging – which I’m taping for my safety – she moves out to her sister’s, says she’s breaking the lease. She’ll sublet her room to the “Biggest, blackest, (n-word) she can find. A week or so before the end of month, she indicates I can take the master bdrm. I move her remaining property to the living room. The next day, she and sister arrive, and have a fit. They call the cops, and say I stole $1,000 cash from her room. This claim would vary between $500 to $1,000. Not. Very. Believable. The cops tell me that she wants me to move everything back. I do so. She comes by the next day, and bitches me out for doing so, because it would have been more convenient for her to move her property from the living room. Didn’t I see her winking at me while speaking with the cop? Another created no win situation.

    When she finally moves out, her sister and unwed new mommy daughter come over, and friend tells them to steal anything of mine they can find. “Get Julia’s laptop!” She turns on all the faucets and lets them run. It was like a flash mob. They left poopie diapers in the now emptied master bdrm.

    I’m so damaged by this it’s incredible.

    https://vimeo.com/86774773

  • maimed4life

    Sorry, the above video was truncated. Here’s a good one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpbsG6-e1Aw&feature=youtu.be

    I taped about 30 of these rages. No PI is revealed. Legal in Tx.

  • lucid426

    umm yeahhhh… its bpds who are disgusting. almost always a bpd is attached to a narcissist / psychopath and will try to play the victim card and defend them (puke).bpds, just pathetic co dependents in complete denial thinking they are standing up for the’mentally ill’. more like deluding yourself and defending someone who abuses you every way but physically. you deserve the maltreatment because of your ignorance masquerading as stubbornness. i hope whatever psychopath/narcissist you idealize and whom abuses you does so horrendously. you deserve it, borderlines. the funny thing is they think others actually buy into their victimhood delusion. no one feels sorry for narcissists ,borderlines or psychopaths. and they deserve no sympathy.

    these facts are becoming more common, so, say goodbye to your false persona (false self) and the fake images of yourself you portray to the world. your vile nature and non -conscience, non-empathy is becoming more evident by the day. cheers borderlines ;)

  • dantastic

    Nice projections and assumptions, says a lot about your delusional, toxic mind… sir? funny you immediately assume I’m male. sexist, abusive little shit.

    Sorry no, I’ve been with a Woman for 2 years. Actually she gave me some ideas as to how to respond here.) I’ve had 2 relationships with bpds over several years, 1 male, 1 female. [actually the male was a psychopath but you get the idea. same deal really, female 'bpd' is pretty much psychopathy in denial]
    (both friends, no rejections, sorry.. but why not, you can pretend that if it makes you feel better) well, I rejected them, by kicking them the fuck out of my life if that counts.

    I’ve seen these people fuck with several peoples lives who have trusted them. nothing but human garbage, trying to hide that they are human garbage.
    so, correction; Im *angry* and you’re damn right.

    You, on the other hand will never be in true love, do anything meaningful in the world, make any change, or have any real relationships due to whatever borderline/ narcissistic / psychopathic psyche you and (probably many of your little grease ball friends) have.

    lol… umm yeaaah why would you even think your perspective means anything to me.. I’m so much better than you in every way. I have a conscience, empathy, feelings. not you. and you never will. people are not equal, not morally equal, emotionally,ethically, psychologically.. etc etc

    why don’t you go impulsively get some tattoos and delude yourself into thinking you’re special or something.

    thanks for the laugh and opportunity to vent though sweetheart -D & K

  • maria deniels

    Am Mrs Benita obaba from USA,i want to testify of the good work of DR FRANK.
    i was humiliated by my ex husband and also treated like a commoner because he got in contact with with a harlot who turned him against me totally.
    i need vengeance by all means so i got in contact with DR FRANK who help fight against the harlot and the two of them had a serious marital breakdown and confusion was now their breakfast and all and everything went down the drain and he is begging me now like seriously,as am saying this right now my husband is even more 100% in love with me again but i don’t want to give him any chance again because i don’t want to get hurt.
    so whatever your situation look like just email the below address now.
    zooloozospellcast@yahoo.com

  • TediUSA

    My ex-boyfriend was a BPD and it was as you described him.I listened to my guts back then and GOT OUT OF IT as soon as I realized what I was dealing with.However I am still psychologically damaged ,the whole experience was like being hit by a train .The BPD’s are PURE EVIL,there are as destructive,cruel,sadistic and manipulative as one can imagine.As for my ex-boyfriend…..he keeps using people and leaving a trail of havoc and destruction where he passes……he is back with his latest wife,there are some really naïve and stupid women out there, sadly,that make the perfect BPD victims.