tantrum infantalized woman girl 750

The inevitability of MGTOW

When a MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) man and a woman engage in discussion it’s incredibly easy to predict what will be said:

“Aren’t you afraid of dying alone?”

“Don’t you crave companionship?”

“What are you going to do when you get old and need someone to care for you?”

“What about children? You can’t have children on your own.”

Then, after these and any number of variations on these, the cork in the bottle, the final conclusions are any or all of the following:

  1.  “You just never grew up.” – a way of shaming a man and declaring that he never became a man.

Or…

  1.  “You just haven’t met the right woman yet.” – Feigned sympathy and a statement that amounts to the idea that eventually you will get it.

Or…

  1.  “You just hate women.” – The most clever of the conclusions, it implies that you were damaged by a woman (because only a damaged man could have anything but complete love and devotion for women) and, if you were able to be damaged by a woman, you were never worthy of a woman in the first place.

Shame, shaming sympathy, and veiled attacks followed by more shame. It’s all predictable.

There’s something else that is predictable too – the overwhelming number of men that will ultimately decide to toss away the risk associated with entering into legally-binding social arrangements with women.

The explanation for this inevitability is as simple as explaining why healthy 40 year-old men do not spend their Saturday afternoons attending the birthday parties of their 5 year old friends. It’s as easy as understanding why bankers do not give out mortgages to 12 year olds and why it’s pathetic for a middle aged man to spend hours at the playground exchanging baseball cards with third graders.

As so many (possibly most) young women have been reduced to an infantile state, healthy, mature men have become able to see beyond the façade and recognize female behavior for what it has become, they will avoid those relationships the same way grown men avoid land deals with six year olds.  And the real tragedy here is that all of those statements listed above could be of tremendous value to women if they understood them from a male point of view.

  1. “Aren’t you afraid of dying alone?” and “Don’t you crave companionship?”

Physically, we all die alone, but it is easy to believe that a person would face the experience of death with a greater sense of peace and well-being holding memories of a life that included deep, intimate,  connections to other human beings. These types of memories can be a source of strength and that’s a commodity when facing one’s own end. Likewise, companionship is an instinctual desire, craved by humans at the core, a genetic predisposition important for our survival and mental health.

So, yes to both yet men will still inevitably choose to lead their own lives, avoid marriage and forego fathering children. The reason is simple: Women can no longer be counted on to provide those things.

The culture designed, and so cleverly implemented by feminism, has sunk countless women into a state of arrested development while also creating a legal structure that amounts to a gun pointed at the heads of all men. Women have largely become children backed by thugs.

They expect men to care for them, coddle them, protect them, bend to their will, and accept any idea or perspective they put forward. If a man refuses, expressing his mature self, they can call in the police who will arrest him for nothing. The Family Courts will take his children, property, and future earnings. The District Attorneys that will prosecute on any outlandish assertion of rape or impropriety (at least any assertion made against a man.) All of these things serve to accomplish one thing – subsidize the lifelong childhood that women have been flung into by feminists.

How can a child backed by goons be a companion? And who wants to lie on their deathbed remembering the trauma of having dealt with that quality of life (or, if you submit, a life of constant emasculation)? This doesn’t ease your final moments.

  1. “What are you going to do when you get old and need someone to care for you?”

Children cannot care for adults because children do not understand what it means to get old. How can a woman that ascribes to feminist dogma relate to the feelings that mature men experience, the sadness and regret at not having achieved everything we wanted? They have been convinced that nothing in their lives is their responsibility.

There is a pain and a joy that comes from realizing that you never had any control over where you started, but you could always control the direction you went from there. That control is limited at times. There are forces in the world completely separate from you, but in everything you can make a choice. Women have given away their ability to choose in exchange for an infantile bliss. Their care can never be anything other than a child’s care – simple, ignorant, a little sweet, but of little substance or worth. They simply do not understand well enough to have genuine compassion.

  1. “What about children? You can’t have children on your own.”

You’re right. It takes two to tango and no one allows single men to adopt, but it is out of concern for their unborn children that men will choose not to have them. A man cannot provide safety for his children when shackled to a woman-child in command of thugs. If at any time he chooses to act in his own children’s best interests where that conflicts with this infantile woman, she can destroy him and/or the children with near legal impunity. Generation after generation of single women have raised increasingly apathetic, violent, or rage-filled boys, unprepared and emotionally distraught and often violent girls, and still they push for laws to continue paternal alienation with no sign of it being reversed!

There often simply is no right woman and, in their state of suppressed maturity, it’s impossible to even hate such women. They are dangerous and frustrating lost opportunities best avoided by men.

So it has, and will increasingly become such, that a man can only truly be a man if he steps forward and screams, “NO! I will not do this!” Then, he must walk away and define his own self and his own life, separate from women, their damaged children, and the thugs that have subverted her independence and drawn all of her power to them in exchange for giving her a fantasy land fit for newborns with no ambition to ever grow up.

About Jack Goodfellow

Jack Goodfellow was born and resides in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Armchair philosopher and author, his focus in the Men's RIghts Movement is in reversing the impact that Political Feminists have had on the erosion of Civil Rights for men and women. More of his work can be found at his blog, www.Feminismishate.com

Main Website
View All Posts
  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

    I have met women who do not match these stereotypes. They are usually middle-aged or older women who never had anything to do with feminism in the first place, or young women who grew up with hard enough lives that they have actual empathy for others and were never taught to be self-entitled narcissists. But I’m rarely surprised anymore when I meet a young man under 30 who says he’s rarely or never met such a woman. One possibility I suppose is that he’s just “prejudiced” and a “misogynist.” Another is that this reflects his lived experiences and that berating him for it is just abusive.

    • Eon24

      As a 22 year old man, I have only met two, and they are very close friends of mine. I do not believe it is prejudice. Not always at least.

      It is extremely difficult to find a woman who has not been tainted by feminist ideals in the city I live in, at least. And even if you do manage to find one, you can never be sure

      • Seele

        Eon24,

        Perhaps your comparatively young age puts you in a better position to come across women of the same age group who are not exploitative, for they would still be learning from interaction with those on pretty much the same level.

        Imagine a man who is single, and of a more mature age, say, in his fifties. Women of a “compatible age” would have a greater chance to have hidden – and less honourable agendas.

        • Eon24

          I meant that a large majority of the women my age fit these stereotypes and are indeed narcissistic and lack empathy for others, and that I have only met two women who are NOT like this.

          The women my age may not be as financially exploitative. They are young and in their physical prime, with plenty of time until their looks begin to fade and it becomes harder to secure a man. But emotionally..

          It’s like it is second nature to them. They really do behave like children. I wised up to the way things are over the past couple of years. And I am still shocked sometimes by the things that some of these girls will do.

          • DukeLax

            ??? behavoir like ……make a false rape accusation because she didn’t feel like paying a 13 dollar cab fare???

          • Vương Vi-Nhuyễn – 王微軟

            I too know too many women like this, thankfully emotionally and mental mature women exist, and though you might only know 2, there are more out there, and the more we (M.(H.)R.A.’s) challenge their culture and point out their behaviours, the sooner other women will revise their behaviour and mentalities, today a woman I know started looking at her options, she went from ”independent” to ”I don’t want to die alone”, I’m not proud of how I made her think, but too many women see men as nothing more than caregivers, though when I stated ”independent” above I meant more in the way as in she uses men as toys, but wouldn’t look behind them, she stated that she’d never marry ”an incompatible man”, but toyed around with them, this is childish behaviour, we have an effect on their lives as they have on ours, point out their behaviours…

      • Greboada

        I would suggest another reason.

        After 30 years old, most of women you meet are single. Friends and colleagues remain the same, but flings and relationships pass. When you look back, single women are over-represented.

        There´s nice and worthy women, even nowadays, but you won´t find them in the 30s single market. If you´re 22, that´s an age where worthy women are still single and around. But remember that: there will be a moment in the future when they vanish. And what´s left just won´t worth.

        • Eon24

          It gets worse the older you get?

          Not a pleasant thought my friend xD

          • jbantifem

            Indeed it does man. I’m sorry to tell you. Watch yourself and read as many of our stories and the ones here on AVFM as you can. They’re 100% truthful.

            Best of luck to you. You have the power to change how things are. Always remember that. No one can make you marry or be a father if you choose not to be.

          • Masculist Man

            No one can make you marry or be a father if you choose not to be.

            If a man has unprotected sex with a woman and she gets pregnant he can be forced into fatherhood.

          • jbantifem

            Well of course. That’s why living MGTOW until you figure out what you want for your life can be a good thing.

            If you don’t stick your dick into a woman you can’t get her pregnant in the first place. It’s called being smart. That’s my whole point.

          • Doug Hart

            Why do you think women hate porn so much? They don’t give a rats ass about the women they say it degrades. If men watch porn and masturbate it takes away their monopoly on orgasms.

          • jbantifem

            My version of MGTOW solves that issue – don’t have sex. Yes, easier said than done and outrageous but why let a role in the hay destroy your entire life? If a man can’t find a woman he can trust for a lover then he should just stay the hell away from them until he does.

            In other words, use the big head before the small head. So many men make their life decisions based around sexual activity. We have to stop doing that if we want to be safe from the traps psycho women set out for us. In my opinion that’s the logical way to go.

          • Greboada

            It completely does. By then, good women are just out of the market. In your 30s, getting laid is incredibly easy, finding a good woman is like an epic quest.

            I heard that it goes back to “normal” in 40s-50s market, but that even good women are not attractive anymore for men at this age, can’t say yet though.

      • Grant

        There are some in the 20-26 year old age category… they are snapped up by the decent men in that same group and go on to lead normal lives.

        • Vương Vi-Nhuyễn – 王微軟

          The problem with ”good girls” and ”nice girls” are impossible to find after you reach the age of 12, those will find a boyfriend at 12, and some will wait to 14, all ”good girls” will marry their childhood-sweethearts, and the bad girls will have had 100+ boyfriends by age 16 and will only date men to make their lives living inferno’s… ehh, from my own bitter experience…

          • Grant

            Not true; I met my wife at age 22. She’s wonderful!

    • jbantifem

      “I have met women who do not match these stereotypes. They are usually
      middle-aged or older women who never had anything to do with feminism in
      the first place, or young women who grew up with hard enough lives that
      they have actual empathy for others and were never taught to be
      self-entitled narcissists.”

      That would be my partner. At 45 years old she’s had just as hard a life as myself (I’m 46) and in some ways, even harder. She’s braved the elements and worked construction a lot of her life, like myself. However, she also endured unbelievable discrimination in that field due to her gender. Even though she really can outdo many men when it comes to physical labor. And I’m not kidding. lol. She’s no ‘butch broad’ though, I can tell you that. She’s an enigma, but an incredible lady. I got lucky and that is for damn sure. Best of all though, she actually listens to me. How about that for a rarity? There are a few good ones left. A few.

      As much as I’ve endured horrendous abuse and hardship at the hands of feminist government and mindset duing my time on this planet, I feel quite bad for the younger guys these days. At least when I was in high school you could talk to a young woman and have some fun without worrying about all this feminist doctrination. Things just happened naturally without a whole lot of thought behind it. Of course, I was never whipped enough to marry any of them and I faired better than many men due to that. The high school girls I knew certainly ended up changing into something no man should have to deal with in their later years though. It’s amazing how fast a demographic can be corrupted by propaganda and bullshit.

      I love this article. I personally would like to see a whole generation of young men going their own way. To see 80% of them not produce children and/or marry. Talk about FTSU. It would put radical feminism on it’s ass for good.

      That kind of solidarity is rare though. Hopefully the young men of this generation will learn quickly what the hell is going on and follow that path. It would do the world a ton of good. Both genders would benefit from it I believe. Whether women choose to believe it or not. In time it would be looked upon as a saving grace. And if it takes 2 generations of men doing it, so be it. Whatever is needed.

      • Justice4All

        For the young men that may be reading these comments, yes there are some crazy, bad people out there but living in anger and fear is no kind of life. To quote a line from the Shawshank Redemption, either “get busy living, or get busy dying.” Like isn’t about FTSU, life is about living and being the best version of yourself. Live life on your terms, not someone else’, unless of course you believe in sacrificing all on behalf of the people you love. That’s your call to make. Take it from one who knows, there is no greater joy than being loved and involved in the lives of your spouse and your kids. Get busy living.

        • jbantifem

          I was living MGTOW out of survival. If you’re not from Canada then I suggest you read the articles here about what’s going on in this country. They aren’t isolated incidents. 80% of the women in Canada will bleed a man dry any chance they get. That isn’t ‘some’ bad people. That’s the majority.

          I hate and fear no one. But I value my freedom and right to live my life as I see fit. Family joy is one thing, being imprisoned by a crazy wife is yet another.

          • Justice4All

            Yes, after reading your posts I’m sure your spirit is filled with nothing but peace, love and contentment. At least we can find some middle ground in your statement that “Family joy is one thing, being imprisoned by a crazy wife is yet another.” Let’s not sell every single male on the delusion that your experiences represents everything that happens throughout the entire world. Yes, there is risk associated with any relationship but you have absolutely zero credibility when you make a claim that 80% of women in Canada are out to destroy men. That’s the kind of crap that provides ample reason to reject the MGTOW ideology. No credibility whatsoever.

          • jbantifem

            It isn’t crap, it’s fact. More than 70% of divorces in Canada are filed by women. Are you saying that 70% of married men are all bad? If so, that’s feminist propaganda and discredits anyone who believes it.

            Look…it’s obvious you don’t agree with most men in this regard and that’s fine. But to say that I know nothing about peace, love and contentment because I chose to not engage with the opposite sex in order to deal with my own issues is ludicrous. I am filled with those emotions even more so after doing so, actually. I don’t need a woman or a family to find those things. Men are in the situations they’re in because they are forced to believe they need women to complete them. I’m here to say they don’t.

            You and I have very different experiences with women and that’s cool. It’s the way life goes. But don’t for a minute tell me who I am by a few posts I leave on this blog. Women and their white knights all but destroyed me as a man and a human being. Therefore, I am now cautious about whom I let into my stratosphere. There is nothing wrong with that and it does not make me a bad person.

            Let’s agree to disagree. Thank you.

          • jbantifem

            It isn’t crap, it’s fact. More than 70% of divorces in Canada are filed by women. Are you saying that 70% of married men are all bad? If so, that’s feminist propaganda and discredits anyone who believes it.

            Look…it’s obvious you don’t agree with most men in this regard and that’s fine. But to say that I know nothing about peace, love and contentment because I chose to not engage with the opposite sex in order to deal with my own issues is ludicrous. I am filled with those emotions even more so after doing so, actually. I don’t need a woman or a family to find those things. Men are in the situations they’re in because they are forced to believe they need women to complete them. I’m here to say they don’t.

            You and I have very different experiences with women and that’s cool. It’s the way life goes. But don’t for a minute tell me who I am by a few posts I leave on this blog. Women and their white knights all but destroyed me as a man and a human being. Therefore, I am now cautious about whom I let into my stratosphere. There is nothing wrong with that and it does not make me a bad person.

            Let’s agree to disagree. Thank you.

    • Bev

      Daughters who grow up with non feminist mothers generally take after their mothers. If their family is one of gender cooperation and load sharing they see it as a good way to live their lives.

      • Bewildered

        The importance of role models !

      • Vương Vi-Nhuyễn – 王微軟

        Girls from conservative households are just as bad, they also see you as disposable, women/girls from rational mothers are the ones you’re looking for, and it’s not just their mothers, it’s also their fathers, the T.V. the books they read, their teachers, their friends, the Internet (one of the most important media and factors), there is so much that determines it…

    • Doug Hart

      If I had married my second wife first and never met my first wife, my station in life as well as everything else would have be so vastly improved that I wouldn’t feel the need to stick my head in the paint shaker every time I am in the hardware store.

  • uranioradioattivo

    Too much truth

  • donzaloog

    I have used that saying before. “Interacting with women these days is like having a gun pointed at your head for men.”At any time she can choose to pull the trigger and it’s game over for you.

    • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

      Yes. A “baby” with a gun.

      • Bewildered

        Older the “baby” the more dangerous it becomes !

  • crydiego

    I was never completely swayed by the MGTOW idea but now I feel differently. MGTOW, or some form of it, are the only way to go now days.
    First and foremost is, don’t get married and document the fact with anyone you live with. Marriage is just a piece of legal paper that can be defined as a government sees fit, beware! Second is investing in yourself, no debt, certifications, degrees, and associations. Third is protecting your assets and this can be complicated and has legal complications; see a lawyer.
    Beyond that I still recomend sharing your life and love with another person.

    • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

      I agree with you. It isn’t easy and I think modern women require vetting, observation, and patience in order to determine her motivations are something other than the pursuit of endless youth and materialism.

      • crydiego

        There have been some great women in my life and they taught me that I should try to be a great person in the lives of others. Sadly, marraige has run it’s course, it is not safe for either party and should be avoided.
        We need domestic partnerships, and paternal contracts, and legalize sexual service contracts. We must find a way to love each other without the romance.
        Feminism never addresses love and romance because romance is not always fair or equal and can’t fit into their theory. (See title IX)

        • Stu

          Romance requires effort, time, and money from the man, while the woman just sits back and enjoys the attention.

          • crydiego

            Romance requires trust.

          • Masculist Man

            I don’t trust women so romance is out for me. Not only that painting women as virtuous is romantic and untrue. A lot of romantic crap has ruined men’s lives.

          • crydiego

            I’ve known some great women in my life, and not all women are feminists. That being said, I don’t trust women or girls.

        • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

          Agreed.

          • crydiego

            Romance requires trust.

          • Aimee McGee

            Romance is bunk. It’s a social construct designed to sell material goods.
            Deep abiding love is nothing like romance

          • crydiego

            Romance is that giddy, happy, crazy first blush of love. It has always been around, it will never go away completly. Men and women don’t trust each other anymore and romance is about trust and sharing. I believe gays still have romance and some even have the best romance of all: the secret romance!

          • Nephandus

            The original romanticism was about freeing emotion from the untenable pretence that some magic “rationality” should define all actions and purposes including emotions/desires, despite the fact that emotion creates value, thus rationality without emotion is valueless thus pointless. Even the most primitive romanticism required sincerity. Hollow facades and authoritarianism are utterly contrary. Despite being opposed to so-called rationalism, the romanticist were intellectuals who clearly identified authenticity, instead of mere sincerity, to be required for any developed romanticist. While some did pretend to shoehorn their values into reality just like their rationalist opposition, people reading “romantic” works missed the point. The larger-than-life backgrounds and fantasy elements were solely to invoke and explore real emotion in the reader, similar to how science fiction was to intellectually explore possibilities, despite fudging physics details. They weren’t intentionally selling escapism, much less semi-Machiavellian princesshood or devotion to such. Some were definitely too intellectually shallow in capitalizing on “courtly” pageantry, but most common definitions of romance today were derogatory references from ironically emotional anti-romanticists.

          • Stu

            You agree, with what. Who is trusting who with what?

          • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

            I agree with the post that I replied to.

        • Masculist Man

          Sadly, marraige has run it’s course, it is not safe for either party

          How is marriage/divorce dangerous for women?

          • crydiego

            The combining of assets. Contrary to popular belief women earn just as much as men. The combining of assets also includes debt and men and women are on par when it come to being users. It’s when children come into the picture that men are owned by the system.
            Being married and being a parent are not a legal or moral requirement. Marraige is the combining of debts and assets as defined by current rules, =unsafe.
            Having children is being a parent and is not safe for men but you are better off not being married.

          • Masculist Man

            I’m very aware of the wage gap myth. Usually women bring their debt into the marriage to have the husband pay it off whether it’s student loans or credit card debts. Women still win while men still lose. You did not show how marriage disadvantages women.

          • crydiego

            I told you, the combining of assets and I used the term “not safe.” The word disadvantage is from you.
            The combining of your assets with another person without a legal contract is un-safe.

          • crydiego

            The combining of debts and assets.

          • Masculist Man

            He takes on her debts she takes his assets. When it comes to assets (since when is debt an “asset”. Debt is a “liability” which is the opposite of an asset)

          • crydiego

            Fair enough, don’t combine your equity with another person without a legal contract.

          • crydiego

            Fair enough, “the combining of equities.”

            Women did not ruin marraige, the ideology of feminism plus political power did. We are fighting the women and the men who are using that ideology. They have killed marraige through combining property and then allowing no-fault to divide it back up! I don’t have as much problem with this if the marraige spans many years no matter who earned the money, but many fall apart quickly. A second marraige can be even more un-safe for men or women.

          • alex brown

            Women did ruin marriage, they are the ones who do the most divorcing.

            If it women who choose to discard men and alienate them from their kids.

          • crydiego

            It was not women as a group, it was feminist theory and it’s application through political power. No fault divorce was the final straw on the camels back.
            If you want to blame it on women as a group, remember, you are blaming half the people in the world just as a starter.

            Stop and think about what marriage is and you have to make the definition fit with religion, politics, gender, and philosophy; it just can’t be done. We used to have a thing that we cherished called marriage but it is gone. Maybe for the worse or maybe for the better, but it is gone!

            Marriage is defined by the state. You sign a paper that commits you to something that the state will define later. This was done by courts, this was done by legislators; legislators you and I helped elect! The right and left have divided us on all matters and we all want to blame the other side in total.

            The problem isn’t men, or women, or anything that simple, it is the politics of right and left that controls us.

      • Man Alive

        You can vet her all you like. It’s pointless doing so IMO as it doesn’t alter the fact that she still has “the gun in the room” in the relationship, and thus can on a whim at any time pull the trigger with a false accusation, unilateral divorce and the accompanying state bullying you’ll be subjected to so she can get her way. That’s the way western women have gone, and I won’t be convinced otherwise until I see them doing more than tweeting and blogging dissent to such but out on the streets in number protesting for a change away from the current legalized misandry. Until then it’s MGTOW as a rational response.

        • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

          Excuse me but I come from the “age of protest”–kum bay ya. Boy was that a futile, feel-good era of the branded rebel. Of course MGTOW is a rational response and is a protest all its own, but there is nothing worth having in life that comes without risk. However, far be it from me to presume anything with regard to your value system, or risk tolerance. There is simply no one-size-fits-all. That’s what charismatic demagogues are all about–imposing their values–and boy do they love to march. What if there was a slut walk and nobody came? Then someone would hire professional protestors. They’ll milk this cow until it stops spitting out money.

          • Nunya Bidness

            “there is nothing worth having in life that comes without risk”

            Are you referring to a man marrying a woman? If so, apply the same logic and you are claiming that men are not worth having because there is simply no risk to a woman in marrying a man. If not, disregard.

          • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

            Here, have a hanky. I’m not an advocate of marriage.

          • Nunya Bidness

            No hanky necessary, just asking.

          • Man Alive

            I reckon if large numbers of women ever get out and protest for the pro-male changes that AVFM advocates then the changes would happen. however I cannot live in La-la land waiting for that to happen. Hence it’s full steam ahead MGTOW and let the chips fall where they may. Life’s too short as it is…….

  • http://www.genderratic.com/ Ginkgo

    “Aren’t you afraid of dying alone?”
    How is a relationship with a woman going to prevent that? What will keep her from just walking? (Most don’t, but that’s not the same thing.)

    “Don’t you crave companionship?”
    An acquaintance of mine is 27 years into a marriage where his wife leaves the room when he comes home and he sleeps in a separate room. What was that about companionship?

    “What are you going to do when you get old and need someone to care for you?”
    Get someone young enough to care for me? Why should a wife roughly equal in age to me, old and frail by that time, be expected to change my Depends?

    “What about children? You can’t have children on your own.”
    In other contexts this is recognized for the homophobia it so often is.

    • DukeLax

      bro, some of the loneliest guys ive ever met were married men who have had their friends stripped from him, by his needy socio-pathic wife.

      • John Narayan

        I have also witnessed this.

      • ComradePrescott

        Don’t forget having his children ripped from him which I think is likely more common and really just worse.

        • DukeLax

          Im not a father myself, but have read stories in the MRM that would make a man cry.

          • Bewildered

            Men don’t cry. Crocodile tears are not real. Period.

          • ComradePrescott

            Since when do men not cry?

          • Bewildered

            Read between the lines dude !
            I was pretending to be a culturally mind raped victim.

          • ComradePrescott

            I’m too dumb.

          • Bewildered

            Hehehe! remember I didn’t say that bro! My conscience is clear. If it’s any consolation it happens to the best of us.It’s best to laugh it off and not make a big deal of it,unless of course you happen to be a perpetually offended feminist,grrr! grrrrr! grrrrrrrrrr!

    • Stu

      Aren’t you afraid of dying alone.=?

      Since most marriages and defacto relationships will end in divorce, you will die alone anyway. The difference is you will die alone and poor after she takes you to the cleaners.

      Don’t you crave companionship?

      After a number of years with the same woman, if she hasn’t booted you by then, she will become an nagging bitch, whose companionship you want to minimize in most cases.

      What are you going to do when you get old and need someone to care for you?

      Probably go to a nursing home, but at least I’ll be able to pay for it because there wont be a parasite that has squandered my money as fast as I can make it, and there wont be somebody preventing me from selling my home and other assets to finance a comfortable death bed.

      You can’t have children on your own.

      You won’t have child support payments and alimony as long as you are careful with where you dump your cum!

      • DukeLax

        beware the bar-fly “sperm-jacker”

  • Riku

    I really understand where the author is coming from but this is written in a way that may insult the few sane women left in this world who might read this. That’s why I think it could be written a little friendlier and less generalizing.

    • KnxGuy MGY

      If they were sane… they wouldn’t be offended and take it personally and would understand… now lets go tell the feminists to write their articles about men a little more friendly and less generalizing… see how that turns out.

      • Riku

        First, I know that tactic you deploy from feminists. It’s like tweeting #killallmen and mocking those who criticize it as people who can’t take a joke, and don’t understand the “true meaning” of it.
        I can already say that if I were in a woman’s skin, I would feel offended by this even as an anti-feminist who supports this site.

        Secondly, two wrongs don’t make a right. I’m here because the articles usually only challenge, but don’t cross the line and offend (anyone but feminists). This one crossed it.
        The fact that almost every article of the opposition does as well does not make it right.

        • ericniegel

          The saying “two wrongs don’t make a right” would hold more meaning if the article wasn’t true.

          There are simply too many divorces, too many innocent men punished, too many female on male rapes excused, and too many children torn from their fathers.

          It is not hating women.

          It is hating the system that made a lot of women like this.

          The fact that you “take offense” to this holds no weight here. We are not here to be nice. We are here to speak the truth.

          • Riku

            “We hate the patriarchy, we don’t hate you!
            The fact that we unfairly generalize your entire gender in this article is because of patriarchy. You should support us rather than taking offense!”

            And no, the article is not factually correct until actually every woman is as described above, any exception proves a generalization to be false.
            I don’t disagree with your list of men’s issues, but that doesn’t prove this article true either, nor does it justify how this is written – or to use part of your quote: “this holds no weight here.”

          • Bewildered

            And no, the article is not factually correct until actually every woman
            is as described above, any exception proves a generalization to be
            false.

            You would be right if this were to be stated as a mathematical theorem or a strictly logical proposition.
            At the highest level even the hard sciences are more often than not probabilistic.
            The article merely says that the probability[though it has not quantified it!] of finding a woman who conforms to the described stereotype is high.In any case even if you find, let say a 1000 exceptions in a big sample size it doesn’t necessarily invalidate a properly made statistical generalization because it merely gives you the probability of something being true.In the above example let us say the sample size is 5000,it’s reasonable to assume that you would be playing the Russian roulette.

          • ericniegel

            Hahaha. This is simply classic. You actually just compared me to a feminist.

            The article is factually correct because this is the way the system works now. Go on, go out and ask some women out on dates. Get married. I dare you.

            As for your cute little comparison, you don’t see me advocating for genocide, female genital mutilation, theatening people with death. I could go on and on, but I don’t see the point when you’re busy in your little corner getting offended by someone who chooses to buck the system.

            We are not here to play to your ideals. The time for niceties passed when SCUM was excused as a parody.

          • Riku

            :) it is classic indeed. Deploy tactics feminists commonly use to justify their own or someone else’s actions and I will compare you to them.

            The way a system works (or what it allows) does not justify overgeneralizations that can have an unfair impact on the image of those who don’t fit into that stereotype or even speak up against it. “Victims of mistake”, eh.
            And no, I don’t see you advocating for genocide or whatever, at least not in the comments here, that’s all I’ve seen from you so far.
            What I do see is the support of sexist stereotypes. Even if they do apply to a large scale, they will always offend “innocent” people. Justify it by using SCUM as an excuse, or pointing fingers at feminists and saying “but they do teh same!”. Whatever. I speak up against “all men are rapists” just as much as I speak up against “all women are xyz”. You can continue speaking for a large group of people (“We”?) and try to tell me this is the wrong place for me to be, but truth is that this website has lots of members like me, and lots of members like you. And some people will shift more towards egalitarianism and fairness-ideals, and others will seek revenge for something a feminist (or feminism as a whole) has done.
            Both are fine. Choose your path, walk it.
            Take care.

          • ericniegel

            I can see where you’re coming from, but it’s not an over-generalization when I say that marriage is risking one’s life.

            And I meant “We” as in MGTOWs, I thought that was clear, but apparently not.

            It can offend the innocent women as much as they want, I can’t bring myself to care. Besides, where are these women who are offended by this? The one who HAS replied has acknowledged that there’s a lot of truth to this article.

            Also, since when has advocating for agency, and realizing the reality that the majority of women have given up their agency, been sexist?

          • Riku

            One last post before bed time :)
            It’s like I said, you are the type of guy who exercises the double standard – probably you only speak up against sexism against men.
            As someone who respects women as a class enough to speak up against possibly offensive statements that may drag innocent women into the crossfire (and even some of them won’t care, like Caprizchka, never said every woman would), just the same as with men, I just cannot agree with you. And that’s fine. You chose your path, we can agree to disagree.
            Just one more thing: even some (most?) avfm authors have realized that it’s not wise to try to speak for all of MGTOW (few rare exceptions, like marriage), just like it can’t really be defined. What if I told you I’m a mghow who rejects marriage but still loves to flirt and sometimes date. I define mgtow for me personally. And you tried to speak for mgtow as a group, me included, on this matter which we so strongly disagree on.
            I don’t care much, just letting you know perhaps you rather speak for yourself than for a huge and highly diverse group of people from all over the world.

            Cheers, good night.

          • Pvblivs

            This doesn’t drag any women, guilty or innocent, into the crossfire. While it may unfairly hurt the image of some women who don’t deserve it, it is only an admonishment to leave them alone. It doesn’t advocate taking action against them. It only advocates not getting into relationships.

          • Riku

            By spreading such a smeared image of women, many who are not like that and against it, you are taking action. So yes you (this article, the supporters) drag them into this war they may be against, they won’t use the weapons the enemies provide them with (metaphorical gun etc.) (provided they’re innocent) and may even be on our side, yet you fire full broadside into the mass. This harms their image and impacts their life in a negative way if it is done on a large enough scale. Sure, I see why this is being done. But it’s done in the wrong way, and that’s all I wanted to express. You can keep staying away from women, that’s your decision – giving women as a group a bad name, however, is unfair play and not better than the opposition using a group of violent men as examples to prove that all men are violent and one should stay away from them (bad example, I know there’s protection from violence but none from the metaphorical gun, but you get what I’m saying). They can, however, use it to prove that you should always be careful – that’s fine.
            The former is the problem. This article does the former.
            But again, we’re meeting a dead-end here. You think it’s alright/not a big deal or even that I’m overreacting, and I think the opposite.

          • ericniegel

            He didn’t broadside into anything. The article never states that every single woman is like this. You are fabricating offense out of a perfectly legitimate opinion piece based on a system that’s out to get men.

            Instead of finding something to be offended by, or worrying about who you’re offending, do something a bit more worthwhile with your time. Write an article of your own that exemplifies the women who AREN’T like this.

            Hell, write about relationships that HAVE been successful. People like me may never find one, but that doesn’t stop me from being a romantic.

            Just, for Christ’s sake, stop complaining about this fake crossfire you are so intent on dissuading.

          • Riku

            First:
            I believe that if one uses the term “female behavior” in a negative way, that is an attack on all females/people who behave very feminine. So yes, I do call this a full broadside. One of the points I feel could be improved in this article. Say “most” women or whatever, then I won’t mind as much. There’s plenty of sentences with “largely”, “most” and whatnot. Not criticizing those.
            Second: I’m a Blogger and actually shouldn’t be hard to find. I do write about relationships sometimes, most of the time criticize feminism and criticize the likes of you (talk about doing something worthwhile with my time, that’s fun!). You’re pretty lively here, I like that, but in the time I write one post you write five. Can’t keep up with that.

            Oh, and lastly…your attempt to shut me up failed. :(
            Keep on postin’!

          • ericniegel

            When did I tell you to shut up?

            The likes of me? Are you serious? And what is my like?

          • alex brown

            “I believe that if one uses the term “female behavior” in a negative way, that is an attack on all females/people who behave very feminine.”

            Feminine behaviour is privileged and soft. Men get shamed for it, women deslect men for being feminine too. Pointing out how certain behaviours are not fun to put up with is not an attack on the people doing them.

            The feminine script that women play is disrespectful towards men on so many levels.

          • Pvblivs

            “By spreading such a smeared image of women, many who are not like that and against it, you are taking action.”

            I am commenting as an observer. Watch your pronouns. I am not fully supportive. I just think your accusation is incorrect.

            From my observation, MGTOW fights no war. These men simply walk away. MRAs fight a war, or at least a battle. And while there is an overlap between the two groups, they are not the same. Now, you could say that an MRA site risks alienating potential supporters by publishing this. And they do. But it is also important to understand the frustration many men face and why they make a decision to opt out — even if they overgeneralize based on experience.

            I have heard a lot of people vent about a lot of things. And I have heard a lot of unfair generalizations. And of those broad generalizations, I seldom see an objection. Most of these are considered “acceptable targets.” But there are a few groups that people consider immune to criticism.

            I have little doubt that you have, at some point, heard some woman complain about “all men.” I am also confident that you raised no objection. And this article didn’t say “all women.” It hedged and said “many.” Yes, some women may be alienated by the article. But I expect most of them just want to lead men “back into the fold” anyway.

          • Riku

            Hi there a last time,

            “[...] mature men have become able to see beyond the façade and recognize
            female behavior for what it has become, they will avoid those
            relationships [...] ”

            He doesn’t say many. So yes, it’s an attack on everyone with female behavior.
            Don’t have a problem with the sentences where “many” is used. Never criticized those. Like I said, you guys don’t even understand what I’m talking about, so I’ll end the discussion – if you check the comment of the author: http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/m-g-t-o-w/the-inevitability-of-mgtow/#comment-1390100310
            He understood at least :)

            Peace

          • Pvblivs

            “He doesn’t say many. So yes, it’s an attack on everyone with female behavior.”

            He doesn’t? Let’s look at the WHOLE sentence.

            “As so many (possibly most) young women have been reduced to an infantile state, healthy, mature men have become able to see beyond the façade and recognize female behavior for what it has become, they will avoid those relationships the same way grown men avoid land deals with six year olds.”

            Ah, yes, there’s that word “many” — right at the beginning. You simply snipped it off. Do you think people here are stupid? Do you really think you can get away with a quote mine like that? The entire sentence set a context that you explicitly denied using a quote mine.

            Now, I should note that chopping off part of a sentence doesn’t HAVE to be a quote mine. It is only a quote mine because the added context contradicts and invalidates the “point” you were trying to make.

            “Don’t have a problem with the sentences where ‘many’ is used. Never criticized those.”

            Sure you did. I just caught you. You removed the entire dependent clause that limited the scope.

            “Like I said, you guys don’t even understand what I’m talking about, so I’ll end the discussion…”

            I understand just fine. Whether you run away or not is up to you.

          • Riku

            “Many blacks have been raised to be thugs…[...]
            White men can finally see beyond the façade and recognize black behavior for what it has become”
            lolo have a problem with teh second part? Look at teh first part, stoopeeeed!
            Smart today, aren’t we? Way to justify this bollocks. You think you’re genius and “caught” me, yet you can see that the author agrees with me on this one, and I do believe he knows better than you.

          • ericniegel

            >Argumentum ad hominem – the evasion of the actual topic by directing the attack at your opponent.

          • Riku

            Hi there to you, too.
            I wouldn’t call it evading the actual topic when I did argue that the second part of that sentence would have only been limited by the “many” of the first part if, instead of “female behavior” (which is a wide-cast generalization), “their behavior” would have been used. Only then could you clearly connect “their” to the infantile women. Just like with my example of blacks, using “black behavior” is a generalization and not limited, no matter what is said in the previous part.

            Your nice little definition was meant to evade my argument and attempt to make me justify xyz, so you can change topic.

            Well done.
            Keep entertaining me guys! ^_^

          • ericniegel

            And in response to your word picking I direct you to Bewildered’s post:

            “You would be right if this were to be stated as a mathematical theorem or a strictly logical proposition.
            At the highest level even the hard sciences are more often than not probabilistic.
            The
            article merely says that the probability[though it has not quantified
            it!] of finding a woman who conforms to the described stereotype is
            high.In any case even if you find, let say a 1000 exceptions in a big
            sample size it doesn’t necessarily invalidate a properly made
            statistical generalization because it merely gives you the probability
            of something being true.In the above example let us say the sample size
            is 5000,it’s reasonable to assume that you would be playing the Russian
            roulette.”

            Your passive aggressiveness is becoming tiresome. It’s fine if you disagree but stop acting like we’re inferior to you.

          • Riku

            Sup,

            you guys are not inferior, I respect your opinions, keep them. Nevertheless, I find them amusing. I disagree with the post you quoted as well, because the “probability” argument only applies when words such as some, many, few… are used. As I stated earlier, “female behavior” has not been limited by any of those words – if “their behavior” would have been used (connected to the “many women”) instead, no problemo senior. I disagree with the statement that a broad generalization only represents a “statistical probability” – no, it describes every single individual of a group. A single exception will prove it false. That is my opinion, you guys disagree, so we’re getting nowhere. Like I said, this is just killing some time for me.

            My first post was a suggestion for improvement I made for the author, and he agreed. My criticism has been acknowledged, so I’m actually done with this. I’m only discussing with you guys while waiting 17 more minutes for the bus :)
            …bleh, 12 now.

            “Riku uses kill time…
            …It is very effective!”

          • ericniegel

            K, seeya later then. Try not to come off so abrasive next time o.O

          • Pvblivs

            You explicitly said that you didn’t have a problem with the sentences where “many” was used. And you quote-mined a sentence to remove the word. Right now, you are arguing with your own claims first. Because you lied. I am criticizing your deception first.

            Now, no deflections. You do not believe that I am trying to “justify bollocks.” You are trying to deflect so that you don’t have to admit that you lied and misrepresented.the author.

            “Look at teh first part, stoopeeeed!”

            Oh, look, mockery. Should I really think you are anything other than a troll?

          • Riku

            Bored again :( Cooking.
            a) Yes, I did. Still stand by it. The part I cut out had nothing to do with the part I criticized, otherwise the wording would’ve been different. Author agreed without your permission! :( So much for misrepresenting author(s).

            2) Criticize my deceptions more! I might have hidden more…you’re the genius, the only one around here who can find ‘em and bust my lies! Nnnnoooooooo!
            3) Wasn’t mockery. At all. Wasn’t even directly aimed at you, was just parrotting a feminist with their patriarchy crap.
            But no, please don’t think I’m anything other than a troll. Please be aware that you’ve been feeding this troll for days now, and he’s still having a blast reading your **** XD

          • Pvblivs

            A) It is quite possible that the author didn’t double-check and took your word for it that he missed a qualifier. The part you cut out was a qualifier for the part you criticized. Even if it had been two separate sentences, it would still have provided context (one sentence can do that for another.) But you claimed not to have problems with sentences where “many” was used. Now either you were not very observant, or you were lying. I believe it was the latter.

            2) I’m sure other people can find your deceptions too. They may have decided “not to feed the troll.” Perhaps I am giving you too much credit. But I am giving you a chance to be a human being.

            3) It was blatant mockery. You are just like a feminist who says telling men to kill themselves was “a joke.” You’ve been caught out. You can drop the pretense.

            As an aside, Disqus reveals who upvotes your comments and upvoting your own comment isn’t that impressive. The least you could have done was log out and upvote as a guest.

          • Riku

            Thanks for feeding me <3

            1 2 3. Quick. Got only 9 minutes to kill today.

            1) I'll do the actual looking up and reading for you:

            "I agree with you there and that falls to me as a failure in my writing.
            Going back, I see a few places where the wording is too broad."

            http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/m-g-t-o-w/the-inevitability-of-mgtow/#comment-1390100310

            "Many apples taste like x, the color of apples is y"

            "As so many (possibly most) young women have been reduced to an infantile
            state, healthy, mature men have become able to see beyond the façade
            and recognize female behavior for what it has become"

            He was smart enough to see that the second part is not limited or defined by the first in both sentences.
            You were and are not.

            Oh, I'm such a liar :( Your word is law of course XD

            Btw: here is how it should have been:

            "Many apples taste like x, their color is y"

            "As so many (possibly most) young women have been reduced to an infantile
            state, healthy, mature men have become able to see beyond the façade
            and recognize their behavior for what it has become"

            2) Trolls have feelings, too! :(
            Oh thank you so much, we all know it's you who decide who's a human being and who isn't. I feel so honored! ^-^

            3) That's all cool. I got busted again. Goddammit you're good! I didn't even know that myself. But if you insist XD Anything else to add? Go ahead.

            "As an aside", you're learning how to derail! Not bad. Again, you've seen through me and my agenda to upvote myself to make my posts look extremely impressive…you're just too much for me to handle! :(

            Perhaps…perhaps if I upvote all my other posts…perhaps more smarties like you appear to feed me! Worth a try :3

            Might not be back until Monday, but perhaps from my cell phone at some point. Off traveling! =))

          • Pvblivs

            “I’ll do the actual looking up and reading for you:”

            I’ll do my own looking up. I don’t really trust you.

            “”As so many (possibly most) young women have been reduced to an infantile state, healthy, mature men have become able to see beyond the façade and recognize female behavior for what it has become, they will avoid those relationships the same way grown men avoid land deals with six year olds.”

            Nope, the clauses are still related. You cannot take them apart without a significant change in meaning. He is saying that because many young women have been reduced to an infantile state, men are avoiding relationships with women for safety’s sake.

            Because you are a liar, I don’t trust you. Now, I realize that you will claim that the clauses are unrelated and that I am not giving a reason not to trust you.

            “you’re learning how to derail!”

            The only one derailing here is you. I do not consider you sincere and strongly doubt, after your complete dishonesty that anyone will be persuaded to agree with your lies. So I will drop the discussion here.

          • alex brown

            Many blacks have been raised to be thugs. They have been raised and damaged by black single mothers.

            That is not a racist thing to say at all. In fact to deny it is happening is racist as it is silencing the plight of black men.

            Single motherhood and child support payments have hit black men the hardest.

          • Masculist Man

            Do you tell the same thing to the feminists too or are just here to bust our balls?

            Like it’s been said,playing nice is over now we take action. If that is a problem for you then there is only one of us who’s upset about it and it isn’t me.

          • alex brown

            So the truth is a smeared image?

            It is normalized for women to kick men away from their children. Men must bee seen as sub human by those women who do it.

            These women where intimate enough to open their kids and have children with these men, yet these women still kicked them away from their kids.

            Sorry I value the truth over not offending women.

          • ericniegel

            You are now two different cases of delusional, and making assumptions to boot. We are all people, and we all deserve a chance regardless of gender. I am allowed to profile and stay the hell away from the dating game, and it does not make me a double standard pusher.

            You’re getting a bit self righteous. Dial it back.

          • Riku

            Hi there,

            yes you are entitled to that opinion and nobody can force you to play the wicked dating game. I even expressed that in my recent response. This ain’t what I have a problem with at all. You can call me delusional all you want as long as you don’t even understand the context. :/

          • ericniegel

            I get the context perfectly well.

            And as for speaking for a group of people. You were pretty much doing the same thing when you said innocent women get caught in this “crossfire” which really makes no sense. If they want to be offended they can disregard the article. Censorship because of offense is a slippery slope. Stay away from it.

          • Riku

            No, you don’t…at all, sorry XD
            1) Get your point, but I didn’t speak for them, I am speaking for myself only – and I wish to speak in defense of women. They speak for themselves if they want, I merely voiced my opinion. Never did I say/speak for “we” or “us” or “all offended women” or whatever. My opinion is mine.
            2) I won’t disregard the article because I can relate very well and would like to see it improved. It’s called constructive criticism, that’s what I did in my first post here.
            3) Whatthefuq censorship? Who am I censoring, lol.
            Ah this is getting really fun. I’ll be back tomorrow!

          • Masculist Man

            If you’re a man then wait until they come for you then we’ll see what your tune is.
            If you’re a woman then the party is over and I can understand that it bothers you. Too bad for you I don’t give a fuck.

            Regardless,you are a troll and not worth my time.

          • Riku

            “Regardless,you are a troll and not worth my time.”

            But…but…you just spent 4 posts acting like the tough guy in the room..Just saying…And I bet I’m worthy of more of your responses, oh Masculist Overlord. Please dominate me with your wisdom!

          • Stu

            You can flirt, date, and fuck all the women you like. I have several lovers, they all know about each other, they have all met, some are friends, and they all know that I am unavailable for monogamy, or setting up house with, both now, or in the future. If you make it perfectly clear to women what you are up for, and what you are not up for, and you do not soft peddle the truth or water it down, and you do not allow any women to soften your stance, than you can have all the sexual and intimate, interactions that are on offer.

            The deal is, that women must give you friendship, affection, and sex, on your terms as an MGHOW, or not at all. It’s their choice, and if you make it known that you will not allow a relationship to form that carries any of the legal implications of a marriage or defacto relationship, then you are staying true to your MGHOW self. You must also be prepared to cease carrying on any intimate relationship with a woman if it becomes apparent that she is pushing for things you have ruled out. No matter how much you like her, not matter how good the blow jobs are, you must be prepared to cut her loose if she begins, or continues to not respect your decision to remain legally single, fully autonomous, and in total control of your life, you assets, your income, and your bodily autonomy. It can be tough, because many women start out wanting no strings attached fun and wild sex, but when or if they decide they want to “move the relationship forward” they often consider it their right to dictate when the relationship moves forward, and to what it moves forward too.

            If/when, they want something that your MGHOW life has ruled out, you must cut them loose. No negotiation on these issues at all. You are a free man……period….and you will not surrender on inch of that freedom. If you can not do this, then you are better off not having intimate relations with women at all, because if you are going to let a woman manipulate you through emotions, and shame, and feelings of being obligated, then you will continue all the way to where ever she wants to take you, and all roads on that map, lead to your money and assets being hers.

          • Pvblivs

            The larger issue is that the STATE is that way. When it comes to one’s personal safety and well-being, it really doesn’t matter whether or not all women are that way. If all women were that way, but the State was not, marriage might still be a desirable proposition.

            I do take claims for MGTOW advocacy with a grain of salt. I know that not all women are like that. But I also know that advocates are not looking for female approval. They are not worried about women who don’t fit the description. And they are certainly not worried about offending the women who are. Members of a separatist group simply don’t concern themselves with the few good people that may remain in the structure they left behind.

            And the fact is that if you look back, the author says many and possibly most women are infantile in that manner. He does not say all. And he makes a true statement. I think you are reading a generalization into the piece that just isn’t there.

          • John Narayan

            EWART

          • Masculist Man

            Mangina

          • Man Alive

            “It is hating the system that made a lot of women like this.”

            It’s also hating the system most women seem to uphold and promote.

          • alex brown

            System didn’t make women like this, woman have always been the same. Toxic women choose to take advantage of the system, no one is forcing them too. Women have agency!

        • Masculist Man

          Wussie

    • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

      Not that I’m sane or anything but I’m not insulted. Running with the herd is its own prison.

      • Bewildered

        hehehe! I saw what you did there !

      • DukeLax

        many Are happy herding creatures, but you sir, are not one of them!! thank god!!!

        • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

          Thank you, ma’am.

      • ComradePrescott

        I’m too dumb to get this. What?

        • Bewildered

          You need to solve “The Mystery of the mistaken identities “

        • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

          I am replying to the comment in that I don’t require the piece to be friendlier or less generalizing in order to make its point. Of course there is a time for diplomacy but I believe that such time is past. Does that make me less of a woman or merely less of a “herd animal”?

    • Keith

      Nobody likes criticism Riku, but no one got anything done by being “nice.” This is AVFM’s perspective in general. If you’re passive about these issues women will ignore it, but if the right people are even slightly offended, then at least they’re finally paying attention.

      Sort of like why slavery wasn’t an issue that was “kindly” handled over tea in polite discussion…in fact I believe there may have been some fighting over it…To avoid that scenario, jimmies must be rustled.

      If the woman reading this can’t eventually separate herself and needs to be told “I know you aren’t like those bad ladies sweetheart, here have a cookie,” if she can’t take a man expressing a logical reaction to an apathetic (to put it mildly) society and a legal system skewed to the point it can destroy him, then she is indeed part of the problem.

      • Riku

        I’m not asking anyone to be nice.
        But direct your anger at those who deserve it, leave the innocent out.

        • Keith

          I wish it were that simple and certainly it would be nice if the American legal system had the same philosophy. Unfortunately they aren’t as specific. The formula they follow is “all women” > “all men.”

          Unfortunately all the “innocent” women you mention fall into the “all” women category. Thus “all men” have very right to include “all women” in their protest until their message finally gets across.

        • alex brown

          What a passive aggressive manipulative person you are. Teaching guys self respect and autonomy in a culture that tries to condition them into being disposable is attacking the innocent?

    • Nunya Bidness

      Hi Riku,

      I wrote the article and I don’t mean for it to be offensive to women. My issue is more with the system that feminism creates than with any single women that is unfortunate to live within that system.

      To say that MANY modern women are infantile because they are plunged into a system that fosters this isn’t insulting women (unless if they want to see it that way). I truly believe that if men were given the same incentives that women are given to divorce, to not accept responsibility, to rely upon thugs and thuggish laws, some would probably exhibit the same lack of ability to mature and relate.

      I hope women who read this take to heart that the arguments they make to men to get them to accept this situation are weak arguments. No matter how wonderful a woman might be, the system of media and legal incentives is quite literally a gun pointed at men.

      When someone is pointing a gun at you, even if someone else put it in their hand and they have no ill intentions, does their individual character matter all that much? The gun is still there. The bullet is still chambered. It only takes one second of them acting contrary to their wonderful personality for a man’s life to be ruined.

      • Riku

        Some really nice and debatable points you brought up there. Thanks.

        On most I even agree.

        But you seem to misunderstand what I think is crossing the line.

        “To say that MANY modern women are infantile because they are plunged into a system that fosters this isn’t insulting women”

        Exactly, it isn’t. This isn’t what I’m talking about. I do agree that many women are infantile, and that many women can be dangerous.

        Here’s one sentence I criticize, it’s crossing the line:

        “[...] mature men have become able to see beyond the façade and recognize
        female behavior for what it has become, they will avoid those
        relationships [...]”

        Perhaps I misinterpreted that part, but to me it looks like you use the term female behavior in general in a negative context. I don’t think this is very helpful.

        It was just meant as constructive criticism, I didn’t mean to provoke this shitstorm of a discussion – merely wanted to help improve the article a little, because I like it and can relate.

        As for your arguments, I mostly agree. Where I disagree is the point where you say that if a woman marries you, she accepts that you lose your rights. I see where you’re coming from here, but some women, just like men, are simply blind to the truth. Sure, they know what can happen to you…but they don’t KNOW. Never really thought about it. And if they really KNEW they might be against marriage.
        I’d give them (those who really thought about men’s issues, but are nice enough not to pull the trigger) the benefit of the doubt and put them in the “gray area”. The ones who refuse to let the system strip you off your rights are in the green area, and the rest in the red. And yes, I agree that most women will be in the red one. But not all.

        Cheers.

        • Nunya Bidness

          I agree with you there and that falls to me as a failure in my writing. Going back, I see a few places where the wording is too broad.

          All I can say is that my goal is not to offend women. It’s to address a system that is dehumanizing to both men and women.

        • Pvblivs

          “Perhaps I misinterpreted that part, but to me it looks like you use the term female behavior in general in a negative context.”

          Given that you removed the qualification at the beginning of the sentence (and that you pretend not to object to sentences with that qualification) I think “misinterpreted” is the wrong word. “Misrepresented” fits the actual situation better.

      • Masculist Man

        Riku is a troll nothing more. They have nothing to contribute to this discussion.

  • Gerald Vrooman

    Why should I give some woman the opportunity to hit me over the head for not drinking V8 Juice? If women want to hit men over the head for not drinking V8 Juice, let them hit someone else over the head. This is really a serious issue. If some woman ever hit me over the head for not drinking V8 Juice, I would probably give her the back of my hand. Then she would call 911, and I would go to jail. You are much better off staying away from women.

  • Frustrated Person

    I’m sorry, I have to speak up about this! Are you supporting the rape and abuse to women that occurs everyday? Do you think that men should be payed more or treated with superiority in the work place?
    I have read some of the comments and people don’t think that laws should be changed because women have different opinions. Your right, but if 50,000+ of them share an opinion than don’t you think you should listen.
    I am not an insane feminist. I am a female, and if you don’t think women should be racist torwards men then shouldn’t you not be hypocritical? Stop insulting women for defending themselves. So what if some of the stories don’t change the world? Someone jsut wanted to share.
    I do know that there is sexism both ways, but instead of being sexist right back can’t you get up and talk with women? Compromise instead of conflict? Any sexism that does go against men is in no way equal to the sexism against women. Men are the dominant gender in almost all political groups. There are nearly 600 legislations about women’s bodies in effect as of right now. How many are there on mens bodies? Absolutlely none.
    Some people have been listing stories from the website. My turn:

    A woman was raped.

    Correction:
    33.3% of females on planet earth have been or will be raped in there lifetime.

    I hope you find that funny.

    • Dagda Mór

      “the rape and abuse to women that occurs everyday”
      “33.3% of females on planet earth have been or will be raped in there lifetime”
      “racist torwards men”

      “I am not an insane feminist.”

      Oh yes you are, completely batshit. Sanity challenged. A few tins short of the full shelf. You’re dipping into the squirrel stash. Seek help from a professional.

      • jbantifem

        Here here.

        Frustrated person – The information you’re being fed is lies. If you do your research you will find this out. Governments, the media and educational institutions are trying to control you. Talk to women who have never followed the feminist path and have men in their lives who have treated them well and with respect. You will find out that the statistics you’ve been spoon fed are lies and propaganda. It’s why AVFM is here to begin with.

        None of us here condone the raping of anyone. We do not hate women, we hate modern day (3rd wave) feminism. It has destroyed families, girls, boys and men. And even many women. It’s a form of Marxism that must be destroyed for the greater good of humanity.

        Please open your mind and look at the facts. The TRUE facts. They’re right there for all of us to see. You just have to learn to ignore the garbage the media feeds us. They want your money and your soul. Do they deserve that? No, they don’t. They do not care for you as a human being. They view you as a child who cannot make her own decisions. Listen to your heart, it will reveal the truth.

        All the best to you and yours.

    • MisterAbsurd

      Explain how on earth you got “supporting the rape and abuse to women” from this or any of the other articles that you posted this exact comment on.

      • jbantifem

        I think we may be responding to a spambot. lol. If theyr’e using the same comment over and over that may be the case. Either that or they’re one serious nut case.

      • Bewildered

        LMFAO! She must have thought that she had ultimately met her perfect match when she saw your nick.

    • driversuz

      “I am not an insane feminist.”
      Meh. Perhaps not. Maybe you’re just a garden-variety irrational raving lunatic and a bigot. You’re certainly not very original.

    • Bewildered

      I am not an insane feminist. I am a female, and if you don’t think women
      should be racist torwards men then shouldn’t you not be hypocritical?

      You may not be a feminist by intent but you have surely taken in the toxic fumes of feminism and that has made you a very confused female.
      If English is your first language then the above quote is very embarrassing.
      You need to learn the difference between ‘sexism’ and ‘racism’.
      Also when you make an accusation of ‘hypocrisy’ you need to prove it.

      33.3% of females on planet earth have been or will be raped in there lifetime.

      1] 0.00003333% of females on planet earth have been raped or will be raped in their lifetime.

      2] 99.99999999 % of women are kind and compassionate.

      3] 0.000000000000005% of women abuse drugs

      4] 80.000786 % of women are stupid or will eventually become stupid in their lifetime.

      5] 60.765940% of women are batshit crazy or eventually become batshit crazy in their lifetime.

      Now tell me how do you prove or disprove statements like these and your shocking statement ?

      I hope you find that funny.
      Rape is not funny at all but exaggerations about the incidence of rape is almost always funny.
      If you can, imagine a child being caught telling an obvious lie. If you don’t find that hilarious then you need to develop a sense of humor.

  • DukeLax

    I read a report that said men who work in offices around women (where they feel like they are walking on eggshells all day) experience significant and measurable testosterone loss.

    They say there is very real “psycho-somatic trauma” for guys caught up in this dynamic, maybe that why we are seeing all these testosterone boosting commercials these days???

    • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

      There are assaults to testosterone on all fronts. Fear (cortisol) is one of the biggest.

      • jbantifem

        Indeed. I won’t even get into an elevator with women and haven’t for years. IF I can help it, that is. I usually wait until an empty car is available. Call me a nut case but it’s probably saved me loads of grief on more than one occasion. It’s a pretty common mindset for men with half a brain here in Canada.

        Erin Pizzey mentioned the ‘elevator syndrome’ when she visited Senator Anne Cools about 10 years ago. She witnessed it correctly from my standpoint. Why should men take the chance? Fear…of many unknowns.

        • DukeLax

          Erin Pizzey is speaking at the Detroit conference…I can’t wait!!!

          • jbantifem

            Yes that will be great. I can’t get into the US though. :-( I wish I could meet her. She’s an amazing woman.

          • Masculist Man

            I can’t get into the US though

            Why not?

          • jbantifem

            Chalk it up to radical feminist bullshit. LONG story and quite personal.

      • DukeLax

        hey have you ever seen any of ” The sandmans” videos on you tube???

        • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

          Not that I can recall.

  • Sports Droppings

    “What are you going to do when you get old and need someone to care for you?”

    Two words. “Life Insurance”. Most policies iniatiated prior to age 45 will be enough to cover long-term home care. Young men, getcha some. . .life insurance. It’s worth the $20 per month

  • jbantifem

    Before I met my female partner I was 101% MGTOW. But I went all out on it – I had nothing to do with women period. I’m even self-employed as a web developer and designer and deal with as few women as possible online. If I have to, I have to. But I’m always straight up and gone at the first indication of any gender biased bullshit.

    From the age of 37 until 45 I had nothing to do with women in my personal life. I didn’t date and never left myself open to the possibitlity of it. Yes, I was celibate and loved every second of it. Men are capable of it, for those who may have doubts.

    When I met my partner it was just one of those things that pop up in life. I told her where I stood and where I was coming from and she understood completely. Which I of course doubted for a long, long time and wrote it off as patronization. Low and behold, after 6 years of getting to know one another she proved that she was sincere. And I’m one of the most cyncial, mistrusting individuals when it comes to believing in sincere, not-for-selfish-profit human relationships.

    If I hadn’t met someone then I would still be living the same life. Some men can have female lovers and remain MGTOW. Good on them. Personally though, I couldn’t put myself in such vulnerable positions. I simply had as little to do with females as possible. And I believe I’m a better man for having done so. I know who I am, what I want and what I will and will not tolerate. Many men could learn from the same experience I believe.

    • Aimee McGee

      Six years :)
      I’m an advocate of the long, slow courtship – my partner and I are moving to the next stage after 5 years – living in the same timezones.
      Given some time we might even live in the same city!

      • jbantifem

        Good for you. I wish you both nothing but the best with your possible future together. And yes, living in the same city may help things along ;-)

        I’m not a religious person at all, but I do believe human beings could learn a lot from simple sexual abstinence for a period of time during their adult lives. Perhaps 5 years to look inside themselves. Do some soul seeking. Without any sexual barriers in the way a person can learn incredible things about what they truly want out of life. And not just the shared tax breaks, great sex and other selfish motivations that may come from being in a relationship.

        Not everyone can do it and not everyone thinks the same way, but it is something for future generations to consider so that perhaps we don’t keep making the same horrible mistakes over and over again.

        Just my thoughts on it. Enjoy your courtship Aimee.

        • Aimee McGee

          Coming from an extremely liberal faith tradition, there is much writing about the importance of respect in relationships – but most adult converts have come to the faith after a wide range of experiences. I find that those who have children are loathe to speak on options such as celibacy – so speaking to youngsters I talk about that as one of a multitude of sexual choices. I also emphasize the value of long courtship, and I speak clearly on choices about bodily integrity.
          We need to start talking about this stuff…

  • ComradePrescott

    I was just thinking the other day about how sad I am that I cannot adopt children as a single man. I sponsor a child and have thought that I will sponsor maybe a dozen a few years from now if I can get the pay increase I am hoping for, but while I think it is morally good to help needy children where I am able to I find that I wish to give my love to my own children and that I fail to provide what money cannot which is the guidance and protection of a good father as my father did for me in my youth for which I was unfathomably lucky and grateful.

    Of course, I am a sensible man. Just as you say, I do crave human relationships (with a woman romantically, with men fraternally, and with children paternally), but I’m aware that the only one I can realistically satisfy is fraternity (and even here feminism does its best to prevent me, à la “death to men’s spaces!”). I do seek romantic relationships, but unlike some of my more naive friends I take a great deal of precaution and will never move in with a girl, let alone marry her! I even go so far as to practice ABR. If ever I am falsely accused the first thing I would do is upload the truth to the internet in multiple forms and send it to many people. I would do this even before giving it to the police because I suspect the police might try to destroy it or claim it is unacceptable as evidence for one bullshit reason or another as they (and the rest of the legal system) have often demonstrated that guilt or innocent is irrelevant. But if it’s on the internet, at least I would feel some small comfort knowing that at least the people who know me can see the truth and know I am innocent. And anyone else who cared to know the truth could find it.

    I also find that there is a great hypocrisy on the matter. A man is shamed for not wanting marriage or family, but at the same time there is a great “Schrodinger’s Pedophile” thing much like “Schrodinger’s Rapist.” A man can’t sit on a plane next to a child for Christ’s sake! I find that I feel uncomfortable ever admitting that I want kids or that I love children paternally. Even in that very moment just now when I wrote that, I feel that a woman could simply write “I love kids” but if I wrote the same words it is assumed that I am the vilest of monsters for feeling what comes naturally to a human in adulthood. Instead I wrote, “I love children paternally.”

    • http://patricestanton.com/ Patrice Stanton

      (Late to the comments here as I needed an article to link to.) From a conversation I had with a long-time “Big Brother” at the ICMI14, I’d suggest you give that organization a shot. Of course “x-hours” per week with a boy not-your-own is no way comparable to having your own of course, but you would be providing a desperately needed service to not only the boys and their (sorry…) mothers, but to your community as a whole, as your influence may help now may just keep those young men from choosing destructive life-paths in the future. From my conversation with that other attendee it sounded like while Big Brothers isn’t a “perfect” organization (of course none are) it’s something very unique and important.

  • DukeLax

    The only reason Strauss Khan was not lynched over his false rape accusation…was that federal authorities overheard her telephone conversation with her boyfriend in prison saying ……” Baby…i got a big one on the line here baby, Im gonna cash in big time on this false rape accusation”.

    • http://facebook.com/DCroyalknights David Sievers

      and what of the others whom have made false claims and gotten off scott free?

  • Frank Blackfire

    Companionship? Dying alone? Wanting children? Children – no thanks. Ever. Companionship? With what, an infantile venomous viper with tits?! I’ll pass, thank you. I can think of better ways to commit suicide, nor am I masochistic. Females that spout these shaming lines (and lies) are those that are beginning to realize that men don’t need (never have, never will) some whiny, pathetic creature that is consumed with infantile greed and emotions.

  • Héctor Muñoz Huerta

    It is true that we are living in a culture that infantilizes people, not just women, really: I have 30 year old work mates who collect lego toys and spend serious amount of cash in superhero memorabilia that they hang in the walls of their room in their parent’s house instead of going out and having their modest but very own place.

    Looking to have or not a relationship is a very personal choice but there are plenty of good women out there with whom you can build a good relationship.

    • KnxGuy MGY

      Superhero memorabilia! hell yeah! at least their room/apartment/house will not be bland and boring with throw pillows and pebbles in bowls. they have a hobby which a lot of women do not have. Spending their money on what they want when they want with no apologies about it. Sounds like you have Mates Going Their Own Way to me. And why does everyone, and i mean absolutely everyone, HAVE to OWN their own place? especially if they’re male. Sounds like societal expectations to me.

      • Héctor Muñoz Huerta

        They are not MEN going they own way, they are boys hiding in their parent’s home spending serious money in childish fetishes with no purpose in life. Their greatest achievement is presenting themselves in social events with a green lantern T-shirt. That is lame.

        • Pvblivs

          You know what you will think is even more lame? They don’t need your approval. Personally, I would want a place of my own, of course. But who cares?

        • ericniegel

          >Lame
          >Boys
          >Childish fetishes
          >No purpose in life

          Enough with the shaming language. You’re tripping over your own damn feet.

          I’m writing my book, and I recently picked up several hobbies that many women agree are a waste of time.

          So you can definitely stick it where the sun don’t shine. I do what I find fun, not what someone else finds fun.

          • Héctor Muñoz Huerta

            I assure you my concern has nothing to do with what girls like or dislike.

          • ericniegel

            I didn’t mention your concern over what women think. It’s what YOU think that bothers me.

            You’re rather quick to judge people you do not even know. It’s bothersome and you sound exactly like everyone else who hates men for being single.

            Perhaps before you jump on the MGTOW hate bandwagon you should do some actual research. You know, that thing where you look at all the facts as presented.

        • driversuz

          They are men rejecting your (and society’s) definition of what it means to be “A Man.” If they appear immature, and I’m sure some of them do, it’s probably because they are early in the process of defining their own identities – with few role models to follow.

          • Héctor Muñoz Huerta

            I think it’s worrisome when an important amount of individuals of a generation show signs of immaturity into their 30’s.

            It’s not about doing or not doing whatever girls like or what “the man” expects from you: it’s about men wasting themselves into trivial childish hobbies in their prime years and not being able to withstand criticism because they are entitled “to what hey find fun” and not care as if they were 16. It’s a huge waste.

          • ericniegel

            Define childish hobbies.

            Tabletop games?
            Video games?
            Writing?
            Drawing?

            What is your definition of a childish hobby? Surely you realize these people are grown and do what they want with their free time. If you think they are irresponsible or do not care about anything that is a preconception on YOUR part, and it’s your fault alone that you see them that way.

            Many MGTOWs are college students or career men, they do not live in their parents’ basement as you are so quick to believe. They have jobs, they go to school, they pay bills, and they don’t give a fuck what you have to say about their hobbies because no one reserves the right to tell them they are a waste.

            Get over yourself. You are no more fit to judge them than anyone else.

        • Masculist Man

          Fuck you bitch.

      • Héctor Muñoz Huerta

        They are not MEN going they own way, they are boys hiding in their parent’s home spending serious money in childish fetishes with no purpose in life. Their greatest achievement is presenting themselves in social events with a green lantern T-shirt. That is lame.

  • http://chaoticia.blogspot.com/ Class Punk

    “Don’t you crave companionship?”

    One of the things I’ve noticed is that women are generally less curious than the men their age and I think most men crave companionship most as it relates to specific cultures and hobbies. Many blue pill men are playing old relationship scripts to keep their sanity intact; and they’ve been shamed by their significant other and society out of the level of a higher level of curiosity that most women don’t support, where this curiosity would do more for their wellbeing than the women.

  • Kevin Hornbuckle
    • Kevin Hornbuckle

      google: killer just snapped (article in Register Guard)

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    Like I have always said, if the only way to get you a woman is to lie to her/them, about nearly everything under the sun—especially “equality” stuff, then what does this customer-cowardice mentality say about the liar. A liar like this is NO man—no matter how may women he gets and how many children he sires. Real men do not lie like this—not this lie!

    I was once told to not scrutinize or evaluate women, for it will only lead to isolation…something that has not come true. Of course, I said it was too late; I had already completed that and proud of it too. This, I would not change.

    “So it has, and will increasingly become such, that a man can only truly be a man if he steps forward and screams, “NO! I will not do this!” Then, he must walk away and define his own self and his own life, separate from women, their damaged children, and the thugs that have subverted her independence and drawn all of her power to them in exchange for giving her a fantasy land fit for newborns with no ambition to ever grow up.”

    —Absolutely, VERY, VERY well said. MGTOW is inevitable and is likely the only lasting solution to femi-selfishness. Nothing else says “NO” like MGTOW-NO does! Nothing else can! if you say no, you have to mean it…MGTOW certainly does!

  • Copyleft

    One of my favorite responses to “Aren’t you afraid of dying alone?”:

    “Heck no–I’m takin’ somebody -with- me.”

    • Masculist Man

      Cool response

  • Justice4All

    Am probably going to regret posting my thoughts on this subject but will do it anyway. I can think of nothing more useless than the MGTOW movement other than the other extreme movement on the opposite end of spectrum which is feminism, both of which I view as extreme and myopic ideologies. Anyone that has followed my posts will know that I am fervently against feminism which I view as the greater of evils whereas MGTOW is just a goofy but harmless manifestation of conspiracy theory… btw Elvis is alive, JFK was assassinated by the Cuban government and the moon landings were produced in Hollywood.

    • jbantifem

      Don’t listen to this guy young men. He has NO clue.

      • Justice4All

        Young men, read the posts and decide on your own who the person is here that has no clue. MGTOW is so far out in left field that it’s right there with the Easter bunny and UFO sightings.

        • Guest

          How can they compare your posts to mine? Yours are private.

        • alex brown

          Yep nothing to add. Most likely a trad con of some sort.

          • Justice4All

            You should recognize this reply as it is the perfect response to your post…Your thoughts are lazy and clichéd.

    • crydiego

      I view it as part of a don’t get married movement, extreme maybe, but a part I respect. It doesn’t mean that they can’t share their life and love with others. They seem to be saying that they will only do it as equals or they will move on.

      • Justice4All

        There have been so many versions of what MGTOW represents that it’s hard to keep them all straight. If MGTOW was simply about men not choosing marriage and/or choosing celibacy than I would support it. But the comments that I read from people within the so-called MGTOW movement are often dripping with anger, resentment, hatred and contempt which I can never support or respect nor will I support people advising young men to view all women as she-devils because of their own personal experiences. Yes, gynocentric feminism is a toxic, hate-filled ideology that has and continues to destroy many men’s lives for sure, no argument there. But not all women subscribe to

        • crydiego

          You youself said, “goofy but harmless.”
          I don’t think you and I disagree, really. Both men and women have a right to choose their own way and others have a right to voice an opinion on it and it’s effects. Forgive me if it should be affects.

        • alex brown

          “Am probably going to regret posting my thoughts on this subject but will do it anyway. I can think of nothing more useless than the MGTOW movement other than the other extreme movement on the opposite end of spectrum which is feminism,”

          Your thoughts are lazy and clichéd. Bare assertion about MGTOW being a mirror image of feminism. Please explain what MGTOW and feminism have in common?

          • Justice4All

            In common? Okay, I’ll bite, how about Self-centeredness to start with? How about viewing the world through the lens of “what’s in it for me”? How about displaying plenty of anger, resentment, rants, ravings on websites like this one? I could go on but will stop here. MGTOW followers sound more like rad-feminists but from an opposite view. Which is why I could never support either extremes.

  • Vương Vi-Nhuyễn – 王微軟

    I can never be a M.G.H.O.W. well I am ”a different kind of M.G.H.O.W.” but not one who could be without a relationship as I myself am emotionally dependent, I crave the constant need to hug/cuddle a woman, I’m über-clingy, though being on the complete opposite of the spectrum that does bring me close to women, and in many cases infantile women, women with entitled look on relationships, it’s a rare sight to find a woman who believes that she should ”prove her love” (something that is somehow only trusted upon the man to do), or should ”invest in making the relationship work” (a relationship is 100% her right and 100% his responsibility), I can completely understand why so many men reject modern relationships, even courtly love seems to be without merits, but at-least then men had a few rights in it, now a relationship to most men is like an extra job, for the woman it’s like having your personal servant, not all relationships share this dynamic, but many women have grown to expect it, and I may be naturally sub-missive, or at-least have grown up to be sub-missive, I cannot KaoTao to a person I cannot respect, it takes a rare woman to actually get me to cater to her emotions.

    • jbantifem

      I used to be clingy and rely on women for emotional support as well. It always failed me. I hope you have much better luck than I did with it. I believe you may be making yourself very vulnerable though. That is just my opinion. Peace to you.

  • John Smith

    Wow, those are some pretty selfish reasons to spit out offspring. They want free home health care and their children to watch them die.