Man at Maldives

MGTOW and female disapproval

Yes I know: what would I, a female, know about the myriad factors that go into a male decision to Go His Own Way, or a male orientating his life to minimise or lessen, if not outright avoid, any engagement with women? It’s a fair point and the answer is: I don’t know. I can respect that decision and acknowledge that this man has the right to live his life anyway he chooses, but I really cannot get inside his head and feel what he feels or has felt.

Okay, having said that, this is not what this is about, this is about shining a bit of a spotlight on why some women, sometimes feminists, sometimes not, seem to have this visceral negative reaction to MGTOW, why some females take it upon themselves to pour scorn and vitriol on the heads of these men.

Actually the clue is in the acronym – Men Going Their Own Way. Now whether or not women will admit it, the fact is for a lot of women there is no male “way” because men only live by the grace and favour of women. Without that grace and favour men will be made feel the full force of female disapproval, which manifests itself in many ways, from the violent to the relatively benign – ever seen a women convey her disapproval of a male action by a slight pursing of her lips, a slight stiffening of her body? I am betting we have all seen this happen to a man or boy, and have noticed an immediate change in the behaviour of that man or boy.

Of course female disapproval can and does manifest itself in much more direct, abusive and violent ways, but the point is that women feel they reserve the right to arbitrate and exercise approval of male actions, male behaviour, and in fact male autonomy.

Our modern society is now exclusively orientated towards achieving, obtaining and accommodating this female approval. MGTOW comprehensively rejects and delegitimizes any necessity for female approval or sanction. MGTOW is men thumbing their noses, giving the finger to the notion that men live by the grace and favour of women. It literally pulls the rug out from under the feet of women who, whether consciously or not, have internalised the idea that men are a resource for women, that men live and die to serve women’s needs, wants and whims, that men have no other function but to be at the beck and call of women, but only if and when a woman decides she had some need that a man is obliged to answer and/or fill.

MGTOW quite clearly asserts that there is a male “way” and that the default female “My way or the highway” cultural norm is now being rejected, dismissed as basically a mirage, an illusion.

The universal pedestal that the vast majority of women believe they stand upon is crumbling beneath their feet, the illusion that they occupy some rarefied higher plane of existence in relation to men is shattered, and the self absorbed and egotistical belief that men live for and in service to women is… a joke.

MGTOW is literally a slap in the face for women. It is saying to women in clear unequivocal terms – “you are not really all that!”

Of course there is another deeper and more subtle message that MGTOW conveys that is precipitating the current spewings from female voices, feminist or otherwise: MGTOW is a manifestation of male disapproval of female behaviour, actions, etc. It is saying, “we’ve seen what you have to offer, we’ve watched the way you present your ‘goods’ and… nope, not buying!”

Oh dear Lord, men rejecting females, men giving women the once-over and not snapping up one of these delightful creatures! Heaven forfend! All this female spluttering in rage, hurling of epitaphs, heaping of scorn, is the female equivalent of a spoilt obnoxious brat throwing the mother of all tantrums at not being picked to play the princess in the school play, because… well because I am a princess!

The notion that men choose to reject women – it is simply not to be borne!

There is yet another underlying subtle message that women who have an issue with the whole MGTOW phenomenon tend to raise – men left to their own devices will turn into, if they haven’t already, uncouth violent barbarians without the “civilising” influence and monitoring of women. Wonder how that stacks up in the face of numerous YouTube videos of females (usually drunk) causing mayhem in city centres on weekends. Here in Ireland, in Dublin, we get a lot of “hen parties” around the Temple Bar area, and the behaviour of these females is jaw-droppingly loud, violent, abusive and not to put too fine a point on it, disgusting – urinating and vomiting in the street being a big problem. Hmmm, I simply cannot fathom why men would be “turned off” by that!

Really! Boys, lads – what ails ye at all? Don’t ye know that there are wimmin out there ready and willing to rip your heart out, itching to use, abuse and reject you? Literally foaming at the mouth to squeeze every last penny out of you, give birth to your children then taunt you for 18 years by holding those children hostage, to ransom?

Lads, MGTOW is just mean, it’s not playing the game – sorry – what did you say? The game is rigged? Nooooooooooooo! Really? Ah, well then, off ya go, have fun, and for goodness sakes lads – mind yerselves – them wimmin are very very sneaky.

Note: this article is also available in Spanish.

About Anja Eriud

Until about five years Anja was quite happy to ignore feminism and feminists, She went back to college to study law and there it was, everywhere, toxic and corrupting. She was aware that women were becoming obnoxious and men were getting shafted, especially in Family Courts, but until I confronted in real life she didn't know how bd it was. Now she is one pissed off Irish chick. "FTSU is the plan right? Sign me up!"

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  • Heather Barron

    Whether or not one is a MRA, MGTOW or a Feminiist, your position is not helped by making lame arguments in defence of your position. This was a largely decent article until the author felt the need to make completely unsupportable assertion:

    Our modern society is now exclusively orientated towards achieving, obtaining and accommodating this female approval.

    A) It’s so generalized as to be impossible to be true, much less provably true. Which society? Which approval? “The rule of 3″ on a hyperbolic statement does not make it any less hyperbolic. In this case, it just means one of the three is duplication (“obtaining” is redundant of “achieving”) and the other is so generalized as to be nonsensical (How does a society “accommodate female approval”?)

    B) Statements that speak in absolutes as this one does (“is now EXCLUSIVELY oriented”) are rarely correct. Absolutes are for hyperbole, not reasoned arguments.

    • driversuz

      “…your position is not helped…”
      Chances are pretty good you are aware of the existence of the MRM because of the hyperbole on this site; I’d say our position is helped quite a bit.

      • Heather Barron

        My goodness someone thinks highly of themselves if you think I would be unaware of the MRM save for this website…

        If you *truly* believe that sensational, unsupportable claims are the way to win debates and earn credibility for your cause, by all means continue!

        • blackstarESP

          You gals have been doing it for decades.

          • Heather Barron

            So, are you saying that two wrongs make a right, or are you saying that the use of hyperbole by feminists actually achieved parity?

          • Grumpy Old Man

            No is a powerful word. It took me many years to realize this and what I can
            share is my no includes Feminism. I’ve seen the damage they can
            do with their narrow view of men and relationships. I’ve also seen throughout my career that too often we men seek to keep peace in the family which includes approval to women more often than not. Hyperbole does not work on either side, but if I was to compare…Feminist take the prize.

            Now that we have your attention, lets compare notes.

          • Heather Barron

            You list a series of disconnected anecdotes; are you claiming that they all add up to parity? Are you claiming that women have achieved equality with men? That we are treated no better, and no worse than man? Because if you are not claiming such parity, what argument are you making?

            As far as seeking peace within the family, I would argue that in a partnership each partner sometimes gives, and sometimes takes. There are unequal partnerships, and abusive partnerships, but people are still partnering up. The fact that there are bad actors doesn’t invalidate the concept of partnerships. If you want to make the case that more women than men are bad actors, then show me your evidence. Because I’m not particularly interested in your opinion. I’m sure it’s a nice one, but I prefer facts documented by multiple sources.

            Is this true or faulse? Because certainly many men observe this.

            It is demonstratively false. Words have meaning, and “exclusively” means 100%. For this statement to be true, every single action every single person took would have to be “orientated towards achieving, obtaining and accommodating this female approval”. This was the whole point of my original statement: when one speaks in absolutes, your argument will nearly always be discredited — even if it is largely sound.

            All one would need to do is provide a SINGLE example of something that does not seek to achieve, obtain or accommodate female approval to falsify that statement. (i.e. Testicular cancer research).

            Therefore, any man who claims to have observed this “exclusive orientation” is displaying confirmation bias.

            Finally, when it comes to “damage”, evil is perpetrated by people — not men or women. I have no problem with men seeking to go their own way; it’s a free country. I certainly would not dispute that in our country sometimes men get the shaft. But then, sometimes women do too. Sometimes someone gets screwed. Life isn’t fair. It never has been, and it never will be, despite the best intentions of well-meaning people.

            When the vast. VAST majority of the elected leadership and corporate leadership in this country is men, that’s an undeniable patriarchy. You can argue the reasons for it all you like, but a guy with no money is broke and a guy with a billion dollars is rich. Objective fact is objective fact. You can argue that the guy with the money stole it, earned it, or inherited it, but that doesn’t change the fact he’s rich.

            Words have meanings. The meaning of “patriarchy” is “a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.” 80% of the Senate are men. 81% of the House are men. 95% of Fortune 1000 CEOs are men. Therefore, according to the definition of the word, this is undeniably a patriarchal society.

          • driversuz

            “VAST majority of the elected leadership and corporate leadership in this country is men, that’s an undeniable patriarchy.”

            Elected by a female majority, and women have been voting for a century now. If the majority wants females in office because they are female, they would be in office. Take your feminist talking points elsewhere. There is no “Patriarchy.”

          • Heather Barron

            Who elected them is irrelevant; the rich guy is still rich.

            Who elected the Fortune 1000 CEOs?

          • driversuz

            The definition of “patriarchy” is a social structure in which family names and wealth are passed down through the males.

            Male power is nominal, and female power is “soft” and therefore incalculable, exactly the way females have wanted it throughout history. Males use most of their “power” to create safety, comfort and luxury for females. And they always have. If you doubt me, go read gynocentrism.com. When you’re done reading that site and this one, and if you can refrain from basing your opinions on fairy tales, you will be welcome to contribute to the conversation here.

          • Grumpy Old Man

            The programing is strong in this one it is.

          • Grumpy Old Man

            I’m certain their share holders may have something to say, most CEO’s work for publicly own corporations, you know public owning the means of production in your parlance. Are you suggesting a nefarious reason?

          • driversuz

            “The cakewalk of women’s liberation is best described as women telling men what they wanted and men pushing each other out of the way to be the one to give it to them.”

            Paul Elam

          • driversuz

            Strike 1: This is a friendly warning that you may need to re-read our Comment Policy, in particular the bits about derailing and trolling. [Ref: 4416]

            Additional remarks:

            “Patriarchy” BS

          • Heather Barron

            Thank you for the friendly warning. Would you be kind enough to specify exactly which of my statements qualify as “trolling” or “derailing” so I know to avoid such distractions in the future?

          • driversuz

            Spouting feminist dogma. You can do that anywhere else on the internet, and most places it’s considered gospel. Do not waste our time with the following myths: Patriarchy Theory, the Wage Gap, Rape Culture, the Duluth Model of DV/IPV, 1 in 5,4,3 or 2… or any other feminist horsepuckey. If you want to know why, read this site; you will find all that crap refuted, hundreds of times, with solid evidence. We and our commenters are done arguing aboutit with ignorant gynocentric feminists. And if you believe one bit of it, you are indeed ignorant.

          • Grumpy Old Man

            “Words have meanings. The meaning of “patriarchy” is “a system of society
            or government in which men hold the power and women are largely
            excluded from it.” 80% of the Senate are men. 81% of the House are men.
            95% of Fortune 1000 CEOs are men. Therefore, according to the definition
            of the word, this is undeniably a patriarchal society.”

            What are you willing to do to change how the electorate votes?

          • http://erik-red.deviantart.com/ erikthered

          • blackstarESP

            Neither. I’m simply pointing out the hypocrisy :)

          • Heather Barron

            Really? Are you stating that I am being hypocritical? Because I certainly have not used hyperbole. Or are you stating that I should be prohibited for calling for reasoned arguments because unreasonable people have made unreasonable arguments?

    • Quistis Trepe

      Very good points, and I agree. If you would permit me to add my own observation that runs congruent with your thoughts on this:

      MGTOWs/MRA’s rely on creating “straw men” to underscore their points, rather than address the entire spectrum of a woman’s dreams. They have set up what they THINK are women’s motivations, such as saying that all women want to snag a man, suck out their dreams, and manipulate them. Then, having created and crafted this artificial female archetype, they believe to have struck a blow for their own independence by fighting the artificial straw woman. In that case, boy they’ve sure shown us. Their own movement has weeded out the bitter, leaving room for kinder and more intelligent men to partner up with kinder and more intelligent women to actually live a happy life together. The idea of relationships as only power struggles is a noxious one no matter which gender originates it.

      One such straw man argument is the idea that whoever makes the most money in the relationship is the one in charge of it, and that women do an injustice by trying to have an equal say in the spending or saving of the house’s finances. The breakdown of the argument is that many people don’t view money as the lynch pin of power, and in truth, it isn’t. TIME is the true commodity in a relationship. You can’t save it and you never get it back. Devoting time to raise a family, time to cultivate a career, time to spend with loved ones and spouses, and time to influence those around you. Money and jobs can evaporate, leaving the one who believes that they hold the money and thus hold the power to lose their own identity and self-destruct. A true marriage or partnership who recognizes time as the true power can overcome financial changes in fortune. I say this as someone who has typically been the primary breadwinner in my marriage. Life is too short for such power struggles. A MGTOW has been blinded by ego in this area, believing women to be after their money and dreams. Women don’t find their dreams fulfilled in marriage alone as the MGTOW straw man argument suggests. But let the MGTOWs believe it, weed out the non-hacker guys, and life will be happier.

      • driversuz

        Oh how cute. The feminists are here for a tete a tete. Shame on those men for focusing on something besides women’s dreams. The nerve of them.

        • blackstarESP

          I know, right!?

      • driversuz

        You have been banned because of a serious and direct violation of Comment Policy (trolling). [Ref: 4188]

      • blackstarESP

        “But let the MGTOWs believe it, weed out the non-hacker guys, and life will be happier.”

        You mean weed out the non-compliant guys. Got it.

    • RepublicOfNow

      This is very well-written, Heather.
      I enjoyed reading your post.

  • The Elderking

    Agree with you. I have just divorced my wife after 20 years of hell, frankly. Being a stand up guy I stood by her through mental breakdowns and vile treatment of me when ill but when my mother died (my father having died 3 years before) the whole loss really hit me and I even had a heart scare (fortunately nothing wrong).

    What did my wife do – ran away and abandoned me. So much for standing by her for 20yrs.

    That taught me about utility. I guess she thought I had served my purpose and binned me.

    Now I am free and much the wiser.

    I am not “dating” but do socialise. What strikes me now is how many women head for me like a guided missile. Years ago I would have fallen over myself for such treatment but now, with the ability to stand back, it comes across as pathetic. They are like drowning people, so desperate to get a man and, surprise surprise, we are not playing in the numbers we were. That either makes them more desperate or they turn nasty when they realise I couldn’t care less.

    As a man I can look after myself. Getting down the gym has given me a better physique than I had in my 30’s whereas most women just sag – and who wants that!

    Think about it – over 50% of marriages fall. Some men end up divorced more than once. Each time you can get screwed over. Why bother? If more than 50% of parachutes didn’t open would you skydive?

  • fernsoles

    I could care less if women approve or disapprove. The very last thing I need in my life is any woman’s approval of me for anything.

  • RepublicOfNow

    I’m certain this will be flagged for removal, as it falls outside the wishes and thinking of Feminist controlled media. Such cowardice is commonplace.

    I am glad that articles such as this one are being written. They bring to light much of why some of us choose or have long ago chosen to be a MGTOW. Although MGTOW is not a movement concerned with Feminism, or a movement at all for that matter, it is interesting to address the outside negative attitudes which are prevailing toward this concept. In short, I could care less about Feminism. They serve the needs of the weak. If you as a woman are offended by that statement, then you should take a very close look at yourself. Women are indeed inherently strong, and as such, the weakness of collective Feminism serves to reduce them.

    Feminism as a movement must inherently satisfy the need to denigrate all things which are not Feminist. Any form of thinking which falls outside the confines of their Marxist principles must be censored so as not to interrupt the pattern of catering to and defending the weak at the expense of one’s self.

    By creating certain spaces which are devoid of Feminist influence, we have chosen to live for ourselves. Imagine such narcissism: Free-thinking individuals living in Freedom. We must not have such things, even though they are constitutionally licensed.

    As always, any form of thought, communication or rhetoric which does not serve to further the cause of the feminist is deemed as directly targeting feminism itself. The feminine insecurities roar to the surface not only when there is defiance to the feminist movement, but when one simply has nothing to do with them. In short, one is expected to contribute to one’s own demise, and if they don’t, they are ostracized.

    Entire societies have vanished from the face of the map for such backward thinking. This is lost on the Feminist movement, as they are attempting to re-write history in such a fashion as to eliminate opposing fact, instance and thought from the public domain.

    The above article is simply further proof that Feminism and Feminists as a collective are inherently weak, and require validation from ALL, rather than from the inner strength which they so vocally choose to espouse.

    By Going My Own Way, I have chosen to live my life as I choose, not as a Totalitarian regime would have me do it. This is not due to women. This is due to Feminists. Sadly, Feminists feel they represent ALL women, and sadly, a majority of women feel represented by Feminism.

    If Feminists were truly concerned with the application of equal rights, they would recognize me as an individual exercising my rights; I do not wish to harm them, I do not wish to infringe on their rights, I do not wish to even infringe upon Feminism itself. By simply not agreeing with Feminism though, I can expect to be ostracized, mocked and threatened. Any free-thinking individual in the Western World should see the irony and sickness in this phenomenon. Read a little about Berlin in the late 1920’s up until September 1st 1939. The analogies abound.

    As always, the true colours of the Feminist movement shine through in that their purpose is the subjugation of men, not the propagation of equality and social conscience.

    • driversuz

      False flags aren’t much of an issue here. The sort of people who use them, generally don’t stick around long. Welcome.

      • RepublicOfNow

        Thanks very much for the welcome, driversuz, and I appreciate the info.

        It’s refreshing to know that there is still responsible moderation in political forums.

        May this Friday be a good start to your weekend.

  • Joe Jones

    OK. First, I’m not a MGTOW. But one thing that really struck me as being true with this article was that a lot of feminists think that a man’s only purpose is to serve women… As if he is not an independent human being, worth anything more than his service to women. I immediately thought about those “Are Men Obsolete” articles and books that have been popping up for the last few years. I think that’s evidence of this fact. (i.e., If women no longer need men – then men are worthless.)

    Reading things like “Are Men Necessary?” and “The End of Men” caused me a fair amount of dismay at the time, but your articled helped me put it perspective. Thanks for that!

  • blackstarESP

    The irony you mentioned here is typical gaslighting and crazy making that borderline disordered people practice every day in their relationships. Modern feminists are little more that damaged people who need decades of therapy to unfuck themselves from childhood trauma. I’m willing to bet most of these women were molested as kids. That aside, the best way to deal with a borderline disordered person is to walk away and never look back, hence MGTOW. A person with BPD can’t be reasoned with and possesses an unparalleled ability to make others around them lose their minds in frustrations. The similarities between modern feminism and borderline personality disorder are striking.

  • blackstarESP

    The irony you mentioned here is typical gaslighting and crazy making that borderline disordered people practice every day in their relationships. Modern feminists are little more that damaged people who need decades of therapy to unfuck themselves from childhood trauma. I’m willing to bet most of these women were molested as kids. That aside, the best way to deal with a borderline disordered person is to walk away and never look back, hence MGTOW. A person with BPD can’t be reasoned with and possesses an unparalleled ability to make others around them lose their minds in frustration. The similarities between modern feminism and borderline personality disorder are striking.

  • http://alexanderose.com/ Alexander Rose

    The thing that’s funny with this viewpoint of men being a resource is that if men want anything from women all they have to do is simply modify their behavior to game the woman and they can get anything they want from most women.

    In order for women to get what they REALLY want from a man, first of all they have to find a man who is not a complete moron when it comes to women, which is extremely difficult. Whether they want good sex or a relationship or whatever it is they want.

    And if they think good sex is limited only to good stamina and the ability to pound away for hours they don’t have a clue what good sex is, and well that is not entirely their fault because it’s all about what we are exposed to and what it hidden from us.

    I don’t feel the need to label myself or defend myself as not being a certain label like other men commenting. Who I Am is none of anyone’s business. The only thing that matters are My words in this comment.

  • Unreal

    Maybe it’s different in Ireland but in the US I have yet to come across a woman who is angry about mgtow. Most of us don’t give two shits.

    Men who reject marriage and family? They’re called bachelors and they’ve been around forever. It doesn’t make you special.

    • driversuz

      You’ve never heard the contempt behind the phrases “Failure to Launch” and “Where have all the GOOD men gone?”

      • Unreal

        Failure to launch? Please enlighten me.

        • driversuz

          “Peter Pan” men, who never “grew up” (and made themselves into suitably productive potential husbands and fathers.) Guys who don’t have traditional goals and don’t waste time living up to the goals others have set for them.

          You know, “losers” who won’t get off their asses and live up to their “potential.”

          • Unreal

            True story. I’m in my early 40s (female), never been married. My twin brother has also never been married.

            At family functions, who do you think gets all the bewildered “why aren’t you married yet” questions?” Me.

            It could be because it is assumed a 40 something woman who isn’t married is single by choice, but a 40 something man who isn’t married is single because he can’t be a suitable partner.

          • driversuz

            Or worse, that he refuses to be a suitable partner!

          • diasent

            I dont consider myself a loser and thats the only opinion that matters. All else is worthless. Now enjoy your day. Thanks for reaffirming my mgtow position.

          • driversuz

            Welcome to AVfM.
            And you’re welcome. May your parents never hire you a fake girlfriend to entice and shame you into Manning Up and toeing the line.

          • diasent

            I believe that my y chromosome makes me a man. I toe the line when i have to. Got me a house, a car a job with amazing benefits. I’m golden and my parents know this. All they are concerned with is my happiness and since i became mgtow my life has been amazing. So thanks for the back handed cheers, but i am better than that.

          • driversuz

            It may surprise you to know that I was referring to the movie “Failure to Launch,” and not to your real life. It may also surprise you to know that waltzing in here and bragging about how superior and awesome you are, is probably not the best way to become a member of this community.

            Neither is showing thinly veiled contempt for the director of moderation. Lighten the fuck up already, or be dismissed as a troll.

          • diasent

            Lol. My bad. Having not heard of those films, i thought you were trolling us mgtows and couldnt help myself. As for bragging all i was stating was i got all i need in my life without the relationship thing. Cannibal trolling is an art of subtlty. As for the contempt thing. Nah i was only playing. Again my bad

        • http://erik-red.deviantart.com/ erikthered

          there’s even a movie named that, it’s a chick flick

  • anthony mcnaughton

    Despite my lack of total agreement with this article , it is well done and the intent of the author is clearly constructed and understood….I’ve been a bachelor all my life , having a solid and good relationship with a variety of women , but , just knowing I had the ability and power to “go my own way” , is more than likely the dexterity of my independence and self sovereignty . My relationships have always been open and honest , without the clutter of the standards/values dictated/set by others , including the designs of (gendered) political correctness that are so deceptive……her just knowing that I was free to “go my own way” kept her/us transparent/genuine in the many happy and concerning issues of our relationship……This is an excellent focus to ponder and sort out , some of the concepts in this article, need to be embracingly dealt with in a sincere and building way…..men have been in an imposed (societal) “grinding-down” process for quite some time now and “going their own way” seems to serve as the most healthy response to survival , both in person and spirit……It’s saddening to see the sorrows and strife women are feeling and acting upon with regards to this developing reality and direction men are taking , but , women have been “going their own way” for years now , regardless of their ties through marriage and family . I’ve noticed that , the very kind of men women hated yesterday , they , themselves have become today .

  • http://erik-red.deviantart.com/ erikthered

    stats are in no way absolute truth, but they do give you some insight. you know that 20% of the sample group are admitted cheaters.

    either they are cheaters, or liars, both not particularly good for relationships.
    the way the sample group was chosen and if any other surveys corroborate it matters too, but from one study, you can see that there’s a significant chance of ending up with a cheater or liar.