Deconstructing Game, and PUA Frauds

January 14, 2014 By AVfM Video Source 49 Comments

From the incomparable Bar Bar. Stick this in your pipe and suck on it, Roissy. PE

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Eizieizz

Feminists love the hook up culture, because they know women
have more sexual power than men, so by freeing society from all relational
contracts (like lifelong marriage) they give women carte blanche to (ab)use their
sexual powers.

Thats why i regard pick up artists as unsuspecting minions of feminism.
- JJ
  
  Probably accurate. I still think that duping falls on them. If and when the technology related to reproduction becomes totally released, both men’s and women’s, I think they are in for some terrible consequences.
  
  For one, men will have become the manipulative players that they cried about falsely for decades. Two, they will have lost all legal advantage, and no amount of wailing to go back to how things were will salvage their predicament.
  
  They wanted equality in name only. Too bad, for them, everyone actually took them at their word. The boy who cried wolf got eaten. The girl who cried predator got treated to the icy cold indifference of men and women who may no longer care. Back to work madam. It was the “equality” you said you wanted.
- zuismanm
  
  Oranges are orange, that is why I think apples are drek…
  That is approximately your logic… Women 9in most cases) really have more sexual power than men, And really – by abandoning all relational contracts (like lifelong marriage) society gives women carte blanche to (ab)use their
  sexual powers. I just do not see – how it proves that artists are unsuspecting minions of feminism? Where is any linkage?
  And where from the hell did you take , that feminists love PUAs? Any proofs?
  - JJ
    
    I admit, the more attractive the female, the more power she starts out with. However, much of your argument is as anecdotal as mine. I was actually not trying to become the devil’s advocate for PUAs, but I guess in this thread I am. lol
    
    The fact is, women do hold most if not all the cards, initially. And also, I agree with the argument that no matter how good some men get at game, they will most likely never get the top ladies. I also know, that yes, if a man is willing to take anything, then yes some of the men most likely get a lot of women. But not the ones you see on the magazines.
    
    The difference is men have their own sexual power. That is why billionaires who get divorced lose out to someone with a complete package. Murdok’s divorce from his wife in New York recently, and her supposed affair with his friend Tony Blair. Murdok is old, Blair had similar success. If she did in fact have an affair, she left for someone who was still more attractive. A younger model if you will.
    
    Women start out with more power, but start to lose it as they age. Even the best of them. Most of the time, a man is noted at his ability for provision. But I don’t feel that is the whole argument. I think it is more his experience, both worldly and professionally, that draws a “powerful female” if you will. Like the producers who date/marry/have-affairs-with A-list actresses. It is most likely the draw of his connections (read professional reputation), and that he is wealthy (his professional ability to make money). Then it comes down to his attractiveness, and anything else.
    
    I’m not saying that the above is necessarily a shallow interaction. Someone who is powerful, has lots of connections, a ton of experience and skill in their field, and carries himself with an aura of powerful masculinity is going to have immense sexual power.
    
    For men though, it is not really about their looks. Being really good looking can help, but just as with men, if it is skin deep the person’s shit will get very old, very quick. If on the other hand they bring all of the above to the table on top of physical attractiveness, then that man is powerful. This works it’s way all the way down to the most basic level.
    
    A carpenter, who has been around the world, can make shit with his hands that people from all levels would purchase, will be very attractive. It is not just because he can provide, it is that she gets bragging rights. He is a higher status male, who could have had his pick of women, and he chose her.
    
    Does that make sense? This is why women traditionally went with older, more experienced men. The levels of attractiveness matched more. Most, not all, young bucks just did not have enough experience to compete, and would lose out. So, most men went off into the world to gain their experience, and test their fortunes. When they had sown their oats, and achieved many/most of their dreams, they bring it home and settle down.
    
    Game, if used well, can help a young man overcome the loss of great-grandfather, to grandfather, to father, to son tradition that most of us are starting to run out of. The break up of the family has harmed sons as much, most likely more, than it has females. I think the Casanova flavor that sets you off about game is a necessary evil. It will not last forever. Nor should it.
JJ

I get his point. It was a very good attempt, but I in no way assume this counteracts game, any more than it counteracts MGTOW. Men are going to have their desires, and since marriage is wholly distrusted across the board of PUA culture, then they have little to no incentive to respect the cow, than take its milk.

MGTOW/PUA are opposite sides of the same coin. Where one is willing to reject female interaction, the other desires to conquer them.

As well articulated as his point may be, I think he is wrong. It will make no difference to the PUA culture until they have a viable alternative. Telling them they are wrong is essentially the same as telling MGTOWs they are wrong, and dominated by female sexual dominance.

But I don’t feel it is female sexual dominance. I agree with him, it is more along the lines of governmental strong arm tactics because females vote for, and support HUGE government. It supplants their need to actually interact in mutual fashion with a mate, rather than just abuse him by threat of government force.

You will not rid yourself of the PUA community this way. This is like slapping a train with straw. This will by no means derail the PUA community. If anything, I think they would be justified at laughing at this. Women are the government sponsored force driving the sexual market, that is true. Largely because it induces this government spending economy to have our most likely impulsive spenders to maintain their well manicured hands on the societal purse strings.

Just because PUAs are beating them at their own game, does not a good argument this video make. Until the laws change, neither the PUAs, MGTOWs, or men’s/father’s righters have any real influence outside of government. Until we can enact the type of change that destroys the career of fickle politicians and judges alike will any of this matter in the eyes of most men.

If we are relegated to this game of cat and mouse, it makes no difference how you play, as long as you are incredibly successful in how you play it. We are not given many options.
- Paul Elam
  
  “I get his point. It was a very good attempt, but I in no way assume this counteracts game, any more than it counteracts MGTOW. Men are going to have their desires, and since marriage is wholly distrusted across the board of PUA culture, then they have little to no incentive to respect the cow, than take its milk.”
  
  I am challenged to get this. You appear to me to be arguing against a point he was not making to begin with. I certainly did not hear any advocacy from Bar Bar for marriage, or for celibacy. He was critiquing mentality and priorities.
  
  “MGTOW/PUA are opposite sides of the same coin. Where one is willing to reject female interaction, the other desires to conquer them.”
  
  Aye, that is it. Right to the mentality. The PUA actually does imagine that in a day and age where women are passing around ass like an office cold, that there is some sort of conquest involved in getting laid. They are so driven by base instinct (what we around here call gynocentric) that they focus their whole lives, often to the exclusion of personal values and shaping themselves into men who cannot be trusted the moment a skirt walks by, just to feel an imagined sense of primacy in the mating game.
  
  Over pussy, the most easily obtainable commodity in western culture, ESPECIALLY for men with no standards.
  
  Besides. In a culture where pussy is as available as public toilets, who on earth pretends to make this an “art form” Two kinds. Book peddlers like Roosh. I get that part, even if I don’t respect exploiting men’ insecurities as way to make a living.
  
  And the other group is, I am totally sure, the minority of men who really truly can’t get laid, and are personally crushed by it.
  
  ” It will make no difference to the PUA culture until they have a viable alternative.”
  
  There is a viable alternative. It is called self respect, personal values and more sophisticated priorities. Things, by the way, that also open up doors with women a little less likely to be fucking BPD nightmares waiting to happen.
  
  “Just because PUAs are beating them at their own game…”
  
  As if. PUA crow constantly about getting laid. It does not mean it is happening. In fact, the culture they foster nearly demands that the men involved claim success whether they have had any or not. The shaming and hierarchy driven back stabbing in PUA pretty much demands that everyone is a Roosh.
  
  The shot I took at Roissy was intentional. I caught one of his pieces a month or two ago where he referred to this site as “A Voice for Women.” I mean, I did not take it personally, as evidenced by the fact that I did not even mention it anywhere but here, where I do now because it serves a point.
  
  The culture of PUA and Game is about men stepping on each other. It is about a dog and pony show designed to help personality shape-shifters operate with each other the same way they do with women, as frauds.
  
  The only Game they are running is on themselves, and Bar Bar sees right through it. So do I.
  - Fredrik
    
    I recently read a comment that feminism is a “cargo cult” of masculinity, trying to copy the form without the substance. The same could be said of PUA/game.
    - alek
      
      Cargo cult was first applied to explain the idiocy of the PUA/Game cult. Game is this silly notion that you can “create attraction” by merely copying the signals/cues of attractive men.
      
      This has never been proven in a study, and no guru has ever accepted the challenge to be tested in a controlled double-blind study. If there is such a thing as game, two men approaching the same number of women and making a physical move/asking for sex would get radically different results if one applies “principles of game” and the other didn’t – but no such thing has ever been observed. Take a virgin, have him hit on the same on number of women, he’ll get laid the same (all else being equal).
      
      http://seductionmyth.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/pua-rationalization-on-the-numbers-game/
      
      Game is merely the art of mind-fucking yourself into coping with the numbers-game, that’s all it is. Its about giving men a sense of and feeling of control where none exists and things are quite random (females).
      - Fredrik
        
        Interesting. Did you know that for a long time, the insurance industry has been using psychological tests to select sellers? About a third of people are irrationally optimistic — to the point that you can construct a test where the results are random, and they will still think they have some influence — and that’s who the companies want to hire. The irrational ones. Because in the end, the guy who picks up the phone and dials another number and still sounds happy and friendly after his tenth rejection in a row, will sell more insurance than the one that feels (and sounds) discouraged or frustrated at that point.
        
        I’m just sayin’. Theoretically, as with selling insurance, being irrationally optimistic could actually help guys with selling dick, if that’s what they want to do.
      - alek
        
        @Fredrik. All great points. Yes, in fact “unrealistic optimism” is and can be useful. In fact, it is often a secret behind guys who do get laid a lot (their mind simply deletes rejection and negative cues), and also behind success in other areas of life.
        
        Placebo is not a bad thing in and of itself, if its sold as placebo (mental aid). Selling a placebo product only becomes a scam when its sold as having actual chemical properties it does not have.
        
        If gameists sold their stuff as “Here are some tricks you can use to motivate yourself to approach and make moves on a lot of women and not take rejection personally” –> that’d be fine and constructive.
        
        The issue is their marketing frame is “Buy what I’m selling or I will declare you a gay rapist basement dwelling beta virgin, because TRUE alpha men DO THIS at all costs, and those who don’t will be weeded out of existence ARGGGGGH”
  - alek
    
    As if. PUA crow constantly about getting laid. It does not mean it is happening.
    
    Only about one out of every 50 PUAs/Game bloggers actually does get laid. The other 49 just beat their chests and posture online.
    
    And even with the few rare “gamers” who do get actually get laid outside the internet, every single one of these guys, they only get laid through playing the numbers-game.
    
    I remember laughing my ass off when Roosh once posted something like this (i’m paraphrasing:
    
    “These game deniers can’t believe how amazing and good I am and what I can achieve sexually because they’d rather jerk off in their mom’s basement, but my feats ARE possible if you apply yourself for years like I have”
    
    AND I AM FUCKING LAUGHING my ass off reading that thinking “WHO the fuck finds roosh’s results ‘impressive and unbelievable’ – really ?!?!?
    
    I mean the fucker fucking relocates to a country and approaches 30-100 women and pesters them until ONE fucks him. And he thinks that is fucking “impressive” and “hard to believe” from the “game denying skeptics”? The only thing we can’t believe is how can someone be so delusional at thinking that that getting such a lay is some sort of a skill.
    
    He thinks people are “hating on him out of not believing his results”. The motherfucker even had cases where he located to certain countries, living there for months without a single lay.
    - zuismanm
      
      Alex – I suggest you to take your medicines on time and leave serious questions to be discussed by healthy , grown adults…
      - Fredrik
        
        @zuismanm: “Alex – I suggest you to take your medicines on time and leave serious questions to be discussed by healthy , grown adults…”
        
        That’s a fascinating comment, because it’s such a transparent flame, and trolls are notoriously prone to projection. So, just out of curiosity, exactly how young and crazy are you?
      - Paul Elam
        
        And I suggest you find some substance in your comments here. If you fail to grasp that, please refer to the masthead to the comment policy and read it completely.
      - perseusdmurray
        
        It is amazing how these people seem unaware of how ridiculous their comments are, how empty. Do they do it on purpose? …. is it just trolling to get attention and a rise out of us?
      - alek
        
        @perseusdmurray
        
        They believe that they are being “alpha” and “controlling the frame” of the interaction. And to answer your question “no do they do not know how they come across”. Even the few PUAs who do leave the house have no idea how they come across. Most go through years of being complete weirdos even if they do force themselves to leave the house and interact with people.
        
        In my niche/hobby there’s 3 that come around to our parties, and everyone rolls their eyes “ok, here come the three weirdos”. They literally can’t read cues, act like elephant in a china shop, and then go home thinking they’ve “out-alpha-ed everyone” or something. It’s sad, very sad.
  - JJ
    
    For a significant portion, you are right. Me personally, I used the techniques a long time ago to figure out what I was dealing with. Say, 2003-2006. It worked for me, and I did not have to approach 100 women, just to nail a handful. I more likely approached what I felt was maybe 20 girls a week that I felt were very attractive and worth it. I only “bagged” the ones I was truly interested in, if it came to that.
    
    I started self improvement, learned seven latin dances, because I felt the normal hip hop clubs were more like what you discuss. Bump and grind, but no heart. Learned a couple languages, lived in two other countries, I’m military so I had work there, and I felt the techniques worked. Actually increasing the quality of my interactions with women I actually did want to pursue things with. And better able to identify the things in women I did not want ahead of time.
    
    About MGTOWs, never said they could not get laid. Personally, I feel, they are the more respectable. However my point was what difference does it make? Either option is not what most men want. Most men who MGTOW will eventually quit when they find a high quality woman. I did. Going MGTOW was one of the greatest things I did. When I used game, it was to figure out why I kept dealing with freaks, coming from a single mother, I did not have an experienced dad to tell me other wise. I fail to see the problem with my comments, or where I insulted MGTOW?
    
    I don’t care if we ever come to an agreement. I used some of those materials a long time ago. I am incredibly tall, fit, and I played high level sports back then. I had a degree, and a few certs. Yet, I wondered what I was doing wrong. So, I learned, using some of the techniques back then. I view it like any other tool. Something I can use effectively, or abuse.
    
    I know some of the PUAs you are talking about. I personally don’t care if you think I am one of them. I don’t think many women pass ass around like the common cold. I typically avoided those who did. Another one of your more hilarious quips, why I keep coming back. Honestly though, if men use those techniques for bagging the most unscrupulous women, why do you care? That is their problem. You get the ass you deserve.
    
    However, if some used the techniques to find out why some women were passing them by, and became a better mate then they were; I fail to see what the problem is.
    
    Agree to disagree I guess.
    - Chibiabos
      
      MGTOW Docent play at all
      PUA’s Play to much
      Traditionalist Played and lost
      Feminist are mad at MGTOW because they don’t play and MGTOW is mad at PUA because they do play and PUA MGTOW are mad at Traditionalist because they lost to feminist.
      
      This whole “Game” is rigged.
  - JJ
    
    Also, to answer your question about marriage, that is the whole reason for all of this. The destruction of said institution. In your own information pages, last version of your blog I checked, you basically said that any man who marries today is practically a fool. I agree.
    
    However, regardless if they are accurate or not, MGTOW or PUA both pride themselves on counteracting the double standard. Both are inferior substitutes to the concept of a healthy marriage to society. Unfortunately, what choice do men have but these two options, or taking the big plunge into the states deep pockets?
    
    Until the day comes where we have a marriage 3.0 (or whatever), PUA/MGTOW are part of a similar function. I don’t care about the moral details, that was never my point.
  - Astrokid
    
    The shot I took at Roissy was intentional. I caught one of his pieces a month or two ago where he referred to this site as “A Voice for Women.” I mean, I did not take it personally, as evidenced by the fact that I did not even mention it anywhere but here, where I do now because it serves a point.
    The culture of PUA and Game is about men stepping on each other.
    
    Paul,
    Just doing some fact checking here. I found only one article on his site where he did that.
    
    Putting The Penis On A Pedestal November 8, 2013 by CH
    Turns out that he was responding to an article here by Aaron Sleazy on Game.
    Many thanks to Paul Elam for publishing this post at his blog A Voice For Women.
    I dont think that serves as an instance of PUAs & Gamers stepping on other men. He’s just defending himself.
    
    Roosh OTOH does gratuitously bash MRAs a lot more, and I am sure its because he wants to expand his sphere (ergo sell more books).
    
    Roosh ‏@rooshv 27 Dec
    How much self-improvement does feminism require? Zero. How much does men’s rights require? Zero. A pathetic race to be the biggest victim.
    …
    Roosh ‏@rooshv 4 Jan
    Feminism: “Women are victims! Give us special benefits!”
    MRA: “We’re victims too! Help us!”
    Red Pill: “I gotta hit the gym before my date.”
    Astrokid ‏@AstrokidNJ
    .@rooshv Red Pill: … + “pussy pussy pussy” + Repeat ALL MRA talking points abt how the law/culture is fucked,but call THEM victims/whiners
    
    https://twitter.com/AstrokidNJ/status/419560953798090752
  - zuismanm
    
    And you base all that on what?
    First of all: who are you to dictate to other males how to view getting laid and what weight to grant it on their personal life … I even do not know how to relate all those bullshit about “can not be trusted the moment a skirt walks by”… I have met very few PUAs but no one of them meat even remotely those baseless description. Have no idea what on are you basing your insinuations… They are so driven by base instinct (what we around here call gynocentric) that they focus their whole lives, often to the exclusion of personal values
    I am just trying to understand – are you denying existence of base reproductive instinct, or its importance for healthy life of males? Or, how do you know that Most PUAs “focus their entire life” on sexual conquest? Any proofs? From what I have seen – it is totally baseless allegation… I understand that few people in MRA movement became obsessive about idea of converting as much males as possible onto celibate MGTOWs and “channeling” their sexual frustration energy into watercourse of MRA revolution. It is really funny – how history repeats itself. 100 years ago communists pedaled same idea of pressing down males sexuality to force males to channel all their energies for advancing of “global revolution”. Really – history always repeats itself twice: first time as tragedy , second – as farce… Over pussy, the most easily obtainable commodity in western culture, ESPECIALLY for men with no standards Hmmm I even do not know what say on it… I have seen more then once here references to researches that states , that today in many colleges percentage of virgin boys is higher than of girls… Are we cherry picking? That means each time look only at facts that are convenient just now? I think – right sentence should be
    “pussy is most easily obtainable commodity in western culture for ALPHA MEN WITH NO STANDARDS”. News flash: 99.99% of men are not alpha, And even – majority of them are not (and yes – it includes also PUAs) “WITH NO STANDARDS”…
    - alek
      
      –> Take a shower.
      
      –> Leave House
      
      –> Approach Woman and start interaction
      
      –> Make a Move
      
      –> Have Sex or Get Rejected
      
      (repeat until sex is had)
      
      — The only difference between guys who get laid and those who don’t – is that the latter ones try more often. Once you stop giving a fuck, getting laid is in fact truly easy. No really, its the easiest thing in the world. —
      
      p.s.
      
      You can argue with me, or actually leave the house and do your own experiment. Try to make a move on a 100 women WITHOUT having sex. Its impossible. You’ll have sex quite a few times. And it doesn’t matter if you act alpha, betta, gamma or multirama around them.
      
      p.p.s
      
      That’s how must ex-gamers left the cult. They did tracking and learned that truly NOTHING matter, it really is numbers in – numbers out.
      
      p.p.s
      
      In terms of “standards”. No gamers have even proven to get hotter women at a higher-ratio than a non-gameist of equivalent looks. There is simply no evidence. So you might need to approach 60 super-hot women to fuck one whereas it takes “just 30” with cute ones? Same deal, no gameist has ever proven to beat the odds at any level higher than average.
      
      You really wouldn’t worship pussy so much if you finally got laid zuissman, nor believe one must “be alpha” or “special” to fuck “women of standards” – really, truly all you need is a penis and the balls to ask for sex.
      
      For your sake and sanity I hope you finally leave the house and start actually practicing this “game stuff” real hard so you can actually grow indifferent to pussy quicker.
      
      Pussy truly is not that amazing nor does it require being “won over” whether its with flowers, dinners, dates or “game”. All you need to fuck vagina is a penis, it really is that simple.
      
      The easiest way to increase the number of hot women you fuck is to be in circles where there is more of them, they truly are not a special breed like you seem to worship them as…
      - zuismanm
        
        Alek.
        I left “the house” some twenty something years ago. When such term as PUA still did not even exist(I think so – at least no one used it then in my cycle ). You can argue with me, or actually leave the house and do your own experiment. Try to make a move on a 100 women WITHOUT having sex. Its impossible. You’ll have sex quite a few times. And it doesn’t matter if you act alpha, betta, gamma or multirama around them I am not going to argue with you. It is meaningless… You simply speaks bullshit. And you know, how I know it? I have tried then – some 20 something years ago. More then 100 times. It simply did not work…
        While 2-3 months of “intensive work” under close instruction of some good fellow, that decided to help me – then young stupid guy and teach about real nature of females and how to approach them, solved a problem. And you know what was most funny? He never ever laid down any woman by himself! Since he was she… So – please stop your bullshit… May be you can sell it to some one , but not me….
      - alek
        
        I have tried then – some 20 something years ago. More then 100 times. It simply did not work…
        
        So… you made a move on a 100 women, and all 100 women said “ewww get away from me zuismanm I am completely uninterested in you”?
        
        — Make a move means = try to kiss them, invite them home, try to take clothes off etc… —
    - perseusdmurray
      
      The problem with current, well it seems to be not just current, is the change in a man when he wants a woman. He loses all personal power, because he doesn’t want to do anything to lose the woman in question. He alters his behaviour and speech to what he thinks will get him the woman. In a nut shell he sells himself out.
      
      “First of all: who are you to dictate to other males how to view getting laid and what weight to grant it on their personal life ” Having a view on this is not dictating. Neither is addressing the differences between PUA’s and MRA’s.
Zorro

That was so pathetic, my Geiger counter fell asleep.

For pity’s sake, Paul, will you for Fuck’s Sake stop posting anti-Game posts.

Tiresome doesn’t even begin to describe it.
- Paul Elam
  
  With all respect, Zorro. I will post whatever the fuck I want to.
  - Zorro
    
    With all respect, Zorro, I will post whatever the fuck I want.
    
    No period. And stop ending your sentences with prepositions.
    
    Texan.
    - Paul Elam
      
      Ok, I will post whatever the fuck I want to, dickhead.
      - Zorro
        
        Classic!
    - perseusdmurray
      
      It is always a person on the back foot with no point to make, that attacks sentence structure, spelling etc.
      
      Really, if you are trying to “win” or get one up through pointing out your opponent didn’t use a full stop, you may as well just admit you are a moron. In the absence of a valid point you reduce yourself to this.
      
      Pathetic, Zorro, pathetic.
      - perseusdmurray
        
        and you go so low and embarrass yourself by using “Texan” as an insult.
    - Jim Doyle
      
      That “to” you are referring to is an infinitive particle. It only resembles the homophonic preposition.
      
      If you are going to be pedantic, you pretty well have to be right. Get your grammar right.
Zorro

And just to pre-empt your obviously tsunami response, herewith the premise:

CHRISTIANITY: A long time ago in a Middle Eastern place not too terribly far away, there was some bloke named Jesus. He was born at this time in this place and lived for, oh, say, 33 years when he was assassinated by the bloody Romans (but they did build the roads!).

Two thousand silly ridiculous years later, there are Catholics (Vatican I, Vatican II, Vatican Mel Gibson), and Protestants (regular protestants, Baptists, Episcopalians, 7th Day Adventists, Southern Convention Baptists, Fred Phelps Douchbaggeries, and…
1 Catholicism

1.1 Catholic Church
1.1.1 The Latin Church
1.1.2 Eastern Catholic Churches
1.2 Other churches and movements
1.2.1 Independent (self-identified as Catholic)
1.2.2 Marian Movement
1.2.3 Roman Catholic Orders
1.2.4 Miscellaneous Catholic Organizations

2 Eastern Orthodox

2.1 Eastern Orthodox Church
2.2 Other churches

3 Oriental Orthodoxy

3.1 Other Churches

4 Church of the East
5 Other early Christians
6 Protestantism

6.1 Pre-Lutheran Protestants
6.2 Lutheranism
6.3 Anglicanism
6.3.1 Anglican Communion
6.3.2 Other Anglican Churches
6.4 Calvinism
6.4.1 Continental Reformed churches
6.4.2 Presbyterianism
6.4.3 Congregationalist Churches
6.5 Anabaptists
6.6 Brethren
6.7 Methodists
6.8 Pietists and Holiness Churches
6.9 Baptists
6.9.1 Spiritual Baptists
6.10 Apostolic Churches – Irvingites
6.11 Pentecostalism
6.12 Charismatics
6.12.1 Neo-Charismatic Churches
6.13 African Initiated Churches
6.14 Messianic Judaism / Jewish Christians
6.15 United and uniting churches
6.16 Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
6.17 Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement
6.18 Southcottites
6.19 Millerites and comparable groups
6.19.1 Adventist (Sunday observing)
6.19.2 Adventist (Seventh Day Sabbath/Saturday observing)
6.19.3 Church of God movements (Sunday observing)
6.19.4 Church of God movements (Seventh Day Sabbath/Saturday observing)
6.19.5 Sabbath-Keeping Movements, Separated from Adventists
6.19.6 Sacred Name groups
6.19.7 Movements not related to the Millerites but comparable to them
6.19.7.1 Sabbath-Keeping movements, predating the Millerites
6.20 British-Israelism
6.21 Christian Identity
6.22 Miscellaneous/Other

7 Nontrinitarian groups

7.1 Latter Day Saints
7.2 Oneness Pentecostalism
7.3 Unitarianism and Universalism
7.4 Bible Student groups
7.5 Swedenborgianism
7.6 Christian Science
7.7 Other non-Trinitarians

8 New Thought
9 Esoteric Christianity
10 Syncretistic religions incorporating elements of Christianity

Thank you, Wikipedia, for saving me the time to deal with this fucking nonsense.

2,000 years after Jesus died, he could walk into a room filled with his followers and say, just like Steve Buscemi in Fargo, “I LEFT SIMPLE FUCKING INSTRUCTIONS!”

Get it, Paul?

Or, if you prefer: Feminism!

Wave 1
Wave 2
2.0
Environmental Feminism
“Big” Feminism
Helen Gurdy Brown’s “Lipstick” Feminism
Camille Paglia’s Amazonian Dissident Feminism

Yadda, yadda, yadda.

What’s the overlap?

“I have a vagina. Hip, Hip HOO-Ray!”

Which brings us to GAME.

What is it? What is it for? Who invented it? Why does it exist? DOES it exist?

You really want to open that barn door?

I am neither pro- nor anti-game. It is a pathetic distraction in the MHR Movement, IMHO.

You want to dwell on it, Paul? Fine. Then everyone will know Paul Elam can’t sleep at night because somewhere on the planet is a man who wants to stuff his cock into a vagina!

OH, MY FUCKING GOD!

Yeah, peanut. That’s you.
- Paul Elam
  
  No Tsumani for you. Will just add you’re being comically butthurt. If you read the title, you knew what the post was about. There are thousands of other articles on the site. Go read one and quit trying to play editor.
- perseusdmurray
  
  now using prior restraint to respond to a comment not made…. straw men are easy to fight. oh Zorro, the irony of your handle is stark …. it’s almost not funny.
- Jim Doyle
  
  “OH, MY FUCKING GOD!
  Yeah, peanut. That’s you.”
  
  Paul has an ego, but it’s nowhere that big.
  
  He explained that the core problem with Game is that it is just playing into the gender roles the MHRM aims to take apart. If Game doesn’t like being shot at, it shouldn’t stand so close to the target.
- perseusdmurray
  
  Zorro!?… more like some obscene Dr Seuss after a botched lobotomy.
nick

Pua = Vagina dependents! LOL!!! Great video. I personally could never be a pua. Even if it worked its still too much work for a not so great payoff. I mean sex is great but I never felt like jumping thru hoops to get it.
Duke

Ive always pictured “Game” as beta males ( kinda like opportunist chimpanzees sneaking in a poke when the alpha turns his back). In modern America Only guys with no assets to lose are running around spreading their seed all over. Guys with any assets at all ( if they even dare to have hetero-sex) are making sure the used condom with 18 years of his disposable income in it; is not just laying around in the trash can when he’s done so she can just grab it and break out the turkey baster.
Duke

I know of more than a couple middle class white women (who im friends with on facebook from high school days) who wanted children, but statistically the only ones that are spreading their seed far and wide, are guys with nothing at all to lose, and these guys are now fathering many, many, many children. A few girls have found their “Snag” sensitive new age guy; to be the provider, but the kids are not his. So we may in fact be dealing with a point in time in US history where the guys with absolutely nothing to lose, are the most successful breeders.
- perseusdmurray
  
  jesus, that is a scary insight!
Fatherless

I’ve always respected the central PUA insight that what women say they want in men has little to nothing to do with what they actually respond to, and I like the fact that they form communities of men to share information, experiences, and strategies.

But what a waste of a life when there’s a whole universe of excellence and endeavor to explore, but all your microscope ever examines is pussy.

And whenever I read PUA material the titillating accounts of conquests always come off to me as indicative that PUA’s are better at seducing men than seducing women.
- alek
  
  But what a waste of a life when there’s a whole universe of excellence and endeavor to explore, but all your microscope ever examines is pussy.
  
  One obvious mathematical example of that is the lack of amazing results.
  – In year one of being super-obsessed with hitting on every pussy in sight:
  > They reach a level of fucking 1 in 30 women
  
  – In year ten of being super-obsessed with morphing their entire life around over-analyzing and hyper-shifting every face of their life around pussy
  > They are still only fucking 1 in 30 women
  
  [And this is the people who have dedicated 8-12 hours a day for 10 years to it] – what fucking wasted effort and energy.
  
  http://seductionmyth.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/pua-rationalization-on-the-numbers-game/
  
  PUA’s are better at seducing men than seducing women.
  
  As someone who was involved with it for 10 years, and even professionally I concur. The game community IS about seducing men, not women.
  
  http://seductionmyth.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/another-pua-celebrity-admits-that-game-doesnt-exist/
electricman

Excellent video, but I was already aware of these points since I was like fifthteen.. Competing for anybody, or putting them on pedestals does not benefit society as a whole. This competition for human females amongst human males definitely causes violence, and puts males at a disadvantage, especially during a period in time where females already have enough advantages over males., and during a time where males are still expected to adhere to traditional gender roles on a much greater level than females.

I don’t deny there’s evidence that suggests males and females have certain behavior tendancies pertaining to their birth sex, and I’ve read a good deal of it. However, many aspects of our individual personality traits are also subject to biological mechanisms, and these don’t always adhere with social expectations of us according to our birth sex. Traditionalists also tend to cherry pick evidence, and frequently ignore a great deal of evidence acquired by sociologists and psychologists that many of our behaviors are the result of social constructs and our enviroment too, if not most.

Tell me this traditionalists, if men are biologically programmed to behave a certain way, then why have most men and boys admitted to me that they wish they had the freedom to cry, express their emotions more easily and wish they didn’t have to put up such a rigid hypermasculine front? Most guys tend o talk to me because I have a quiet reputation, as well as a trustworthy one. Studies taken by many prominent sociologists and psychologists have also revealed the same points I had made above. It appears that it’s the traditionalists who have resorted to social engineering by bullying men into behaving a certain way rather than just allowing us men the freedom to be ourselves.

When you look at most threads filled with white knights, tradtionalists and PUA’s their bullying and intimidation tactics tend to show through so often with those who disagree with them. Obviously my latter statement here proves my points above in the third paragraph. Men are bullied and intimidated into being the way they are, not because of biological hard wiring. It’s funny how the men who are biologically hard wired to play the game frequently have arguments with men disagreeing with them on various gender issues, even though these men too are supposedly ‘hard wired’ to be the sme way their opponents are. . .

Sentience is also a major part of nature, and unlike lower animals we’re the one species that has the ability (because we’re sentient enough) to be aware of whether we’re evolving in the right direction or not. The fact is most people will take the easiest path available when it’s an option. People also have a tendancy to overrate the quality of their own lives as David Benatar and others have demonstrated. Men are brainwashed into believing they’re getting a great deal by being the pursuers, because society expects men to enjoy their so called ‘privileges’, while women don’t pursue simply because they don’t have to, and in doing so would take the balance of power away from them. Well, I’m a guy, and I guess I’ve gone against my biological programming by writing all of this down.
- perseusdmurray
  
  @ Electricman, while clearly you are a fan of your own “cleverness” and leader of your own fan club, when you say “Tell me this traditionalists”…. you show yourself up as completely misidentifying your audience.
  - perseusdmurray
    
    p.s. “It’s funny how the men who are biologically hard wired to play the game frequently have arguments with men disagreeing with them on various gender issues, even though these men too are supposedly ‘hard wired’ to be the sme way their opponents are. . .” You seem to think you are pointing out a contradiction here, but there is no contradiction.
    
    You are taking two different issues being “hard wired to play the game frequently” and “arguments with men disagreeing with them on various gender issues” and suggesting they conflict with each other, logically. So this proves your point. They do not, so disprove your point.
    
    So no this does not “Obviously” prove you “points above in the third paragraph”. That’s is regardless of whether one agree with either or both of those assertions.
    
    It is strange how often on blogs one see someone being so smug and so wrong….. or maybe it’s not. They do tend to attract the pseudo intellectuals.
aewehr

I really wasn’t all that interested in the post (it’s pointing out a rather un-remarkably self-evident truth), but all the “game” trolls indicate it’s hitting a nerve.

The reactions to the video are far more interesting than its content. I suppose you could call it an art form for that reason.
Eoghan

Something I’ve noticed recently.

Roissy is an aging guy who according to his own testimony is still in the bars has been sleeping with lots of women but is not being approached for marriage or a long term relationship – presumably because his lifestyle leaves him not fit for purpose – that is highly critical of his equivalent female peers for being in exactly the same position he is in and doing what he is doing – and he accuses them of projection, rationalization and a lack of self awareness.

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