Open letter to Professor PZ Myers

Hello Professor Myers,

Obviously, you and I have disagreed on several topics in the past, and due to the disconnected nature of online discussion, these differences of opinion have never been satisfactorily addressed. There remains unanswered a friendly challenge from myself to you to address the substance of any of several hundred articles of my authorship which can be found on the web site

However, setting that aside, I am writing this in reference to your recent and humorous invitation to myself, to Paul Elam, and to the pick-up practitioner calling himself Roosh to attend the upcoming Women in Secularism conference in Washington DC.

I cannot speak on behalf of the individual calling himself Roosh, as “pick up culture” is not a topic I follow, however, the idea of high-profile Men’s Rights Activists attending the women in Secularism Conference is in fact, an excellent idea. However, the invitation should, I’m sure you agree, include high profile female MRAs as well as Paul and myself.

As I’m sure you are aware, when Paul Elam invited me to take over the weekly AVFM radio show, one of the first changes I made was the inclusion of a permanent female co-host, in the person of Girl Writes What. In addition, the subset of the human rights movement represented by AVFM has attracted a growing number of intelligent and important women, including not only my co-host on our radio show, but an expanding list of female contributors and board members at AVFM.

Karen Straughan (GWW), Kristina Hansen (WBB), Dr. Tara Palmatier, Nurdy Dancing, Suz, Aimee Mcgee and Typhon Blue have recently been joined by Erin Pizzey, the newest member of our board of directors. Erin is, as you should know, the founder of the world’s first women’s shelter, as well as the author of several books on domestic violence.

Although the invitation was made humorously, I’d like to participate women in secularism conference. I’m confident you too would like me to attend, so I’m asking for your help to get myself, Karen Straughan, Kristina Hansen, and Erin Pizzey invited as a panel to present at the Women in secularism conference.

Best Regards


PZ’s invitation to the W.I.S. conference:

Backup, in case the original comment disappears:

Publisher’s addendum: I would love to make the conference myself but Air Force One is on cable that weekend. PE

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  • Dean Esmay

    As a firm believer in separation of church and state I support groups like this, but I very much hope they are open and inclusive to secular women such as the many women who are part of this human rights movement who are also devoted secularists.

  • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

    If you go, take the stairs, John!




    • Kimski

      I agree wholeheartedly.

      Don’t ever find yourself alone with any female individual of the opposition, JtO. They will seize any opportunity to paint you as anything but a human rights activist. Especially after you’ve hurt their ‘feewings’.

    • No Seriously

      And if you need caffeine, make sure no one sees you walking into a coffee shop; they’ll assume you’re just acquiring your raping tools

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      And, if you do go, I double dog dare you to sing this during Watson’s presentation, that is, if she’s presenting and not currently doing her “Imma Victim Victory Tour”:

      • Dean Esmay

        You are a wicked, terrible person and I am ashamed to know you.

        How long am I going to have to harass you for that interview by the way? :-)

        • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

          Just sent an email re: the interview.

          I’ve been called wicked before, but it was in New England, in which case being wicked is wicked good.

          • TheBiboSez

            Concerning “wicked good” in New England…

            “elevatorgate”? In IRELAND? Shouldn’t it have been something like “The Lift Affair”, instead? “Elevator” and “-gate” are American terms, after all.

            I mean, if it had actually happened there, or at all?

      • Zorro

        Yew R Such a Nawty Grrrl!

        • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

          Nah, just “cheeky.”

      • TigerMan

        LMAO! ;)

      • JGteMolder

        I’m going to have to return the challenge to you; how about you sing it; that way John, the man, has plausible deniability.

    • napocapo69


    • TheBiboSez

      Also, keep in mind the immortal Gerald Butler line from the movie Dracula 2000: “I don’t drink…coffee”.

  • Wulf

    “Publisher’s addendum: I would love to make the conference myself but Air Force One is on cable that weekend. PE”

    Ah come on. How about I send you the DVD?

  • Mike Buchanan

    Excellent. I look forward to seeing how this develops. Militant feminists will look ever more ridiculous over time, if they continue to refuse to engage with us in public debate. Given that we know they collectively don’t have a single argument which we couldn’t counter with minimal effort, the course of the debates will be both predictable and entertaining haha.

    Mike Buchanan


  • thefeministmra

    Bring a video camera… with a lot of battery life… or several video cameras… with several extra batteries so you can swap batteries out of one while the others are rolling. You can never be too careful.

    The buddy system will insure no one gets separated and everyone has an alibi. But remember to keep those cameras rolling.

  • ContraTerrene

    @DR. Tara Palmatier

    LOL is really overused on teh interwebs but when I saw what you posted you got one hell of a bellylaugh out of me.

    Nice one.

  • Steveyp333

    you should definitely go

    and don’t forget to FTSU

    the whole thing will be pointless if you don’t FTSU

  • scatmaster

    Evil. Brilliantly evil.

    • Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      So who is Moose and who is Squirrel?

      • scatmaster

        Working on it.

      • Reggie

        Moose = PZ
        Squirrel = Ophelia

        • Reggie

          BTW, I like that we accept that we are the bad guys. Remarkable!

          • scatmaster

            Just thought JTO’s plan was brilliantly evil in a he he he kind of way.
            Could have used Snidely Whiplash as well but Paul has the copyright on that one.

  • 86


    I suggest you cc all this to Melody Hensley, Executive Director, CFI-DC. (mhensley at Melody Hensley has been actively tweeting about this conference,, and she can probably make this happen.

    I think the idea of a panel, or debate sounds fantastic, and well within the scope of a Center for Free Inquiry discussion regarding the basic question the conference asks:

    “Which is the best path forward? How can we best advance both women’s rights and secularism? How do we set priorities? What changes can be made to the secular movement to ensure true gender equality?”

    All of that said, one thing I certainly don’t understand about this conference, or its predecessor, is why women only speakers?

    Is it the position of CFI that men truly have nothing of value to add to the answer of “Which is the best forward… to ensure true gender equality?”

    • Reggie

      Men have no place in feminists’ discussions. We just, historically, sit back and let them FTSU.

      This is blatantly sexist and deserving of a protest. Or, at least, some tough questions of the panellists and coordinators.

  • Robert St. Estephe

    I would hope that the secularist/bioethics concept of “after-birth abortion” (Peter Singer, Alberto Giubilini, Francesca Minerva) might be addressed at this gathering. This idea – a sort of “choice 2.0” – is the thing that most fascinates me in the secularist movement.

  • Stu

    You don’t get it JTO, that list of women you suggested will never do. You see, they don’t subscribe to the religion of feminism, so they have no place at a secular women’s conference. :)

    • TigerMan

      Good point Stu – even better I’d love to see PZ Myers DARE to call GWW (Karen) “vermin” to her face! Not sure that would go down well with Myers female followers either! ;)

    • Iconoclast Dynamite

      In case you’re interested in experiencing a little nausea, here’s what one of the feminist flunkies on the blog page in question had to say about female MRA’s:

      “I think some of the women involved on the anti-feminist side of this debate are behaving similarly. They want to believe desperately that if they’re the ‘right’ kind of woman, they will be treated fairly– and that any woman who is subject to this harassment must have done something to deserve it.”

      An intelligent individual who believes in gender equality, rejects an idiotic ideology harmful to both sexes, and has enough moxie to stand up to online critics and trolls…yeah, the “right kind of woman.”

      • SeaforthCJ

        Wait, did s/he just call female MRA’s inverse mangina’s?
        What the hell is the term female mangina? Womangina just sounds wrong.

  • TigerMan

    Did anyone else notice this comment from PZ Myers calling AVFM followers “vermin” and then encouraging HIS followers to arrange a mobbing of Justin Vacula??
    This guy is seriously unhinged!

    • scatmaster

      Do you think mantatz will mine quote that comment?

      • TigerMan

        I’ll probably do a duhhhh when you tell me but who is mantatz?

        • scatmaster

          manbooz: David Furtelle

          • Grey Knight

            He is as irrelevant as he is obese nowadays.

          • TigerMan

            Ohhh THAT loser – read some of his pages ONCE but quickly figured out it was a blatant hatchet job site. The only people who could take that shit seriously are those who don’t want to know the truth about the issues we pursue. When the whole raison d’être of a site is finessing ad hominems it is pointless to even try and interact or debate with the denizens there. I have never been back there! lol

          • Kimski


            Well, I’ll try to list what you’ve missed out on then:

          • TigerMan

            @Kimski – yeah and if I ever turn into a masochist I’ll be sure to read it! lol ;)

  • SJThomas

    Just reading that link, what the shit.

    PZ: “Hey, just a thought: you know who these guys really ought to complain about? The people who actually do take gigantic precautions against personal threats… Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Sam Harris. They have armed bodyguards…They take anonymous threats far more seriously than does Ophelia.”

    Comparing the reaction to ‘threats’ faced by Ophelia Benson with, y’know, actual threats against Ayaan Hirsi Ali? I just can’t fathom this type of idiocy.
    I have a rule: When a ‘threat’ (read criticism) against Ophelia is found pinned to a murdered collaborator of hers, then i’ll take it seriously.

  • Mykeru

    No joke people:

    I already see the usual suspects trying to construct a threat narrative around Justin Vacula, who has already raised enough money to attend. Barring actually preventing him from attending on a pretext, they will be filtering his ever move through their agenda.

    I use a Contour Roam helmet cam while biking. John the Other has a Go-Pro, I believe. Those who attend should be use to record every interaction, cognizant that any camera used will then be cited in some “upskirt” harassment narrative.

    Of course, if you make it to DC, lunch is on me.

    • SeaforthCJ

      Wait, did s/he just call female MRA’s inverse mangina’s?
      What the hell is the term female mangina? Womangina just sounds wrong.

      • JGteMolder

        A wonis?

  • DriveBy

    I’d be astonished if Myers accepts. Anyway, it’s surely up to the CFI as to whether the conference will allow it. From what I know of Myers, he will never allow open discussion unless he feels his argument is unassailable, or he controls the discussion.

  • chrixthegreat

    Call me paranoid but this sounds a lot like a trap to me. Get all high ranking officials of the MRM in one room surrounded by feminist ideologues, not much unlike the ones at the U of T protest. I perceive this to be a high risk activity. If you do this, lets not have all our leaders there at once and keep a spycam on you at all times, just in case.

  • Correctrix

    Did you just doxx GWW?? Haha.

    Seriously, I knew her name was Karen, but I’m surprised she’s giving her surname now too. She seemed so keen to be anonymous. Oh well, I suppose that you and Paul haven’t been murdered by bipolar feminists yet, so Karen should manage to survive too!

    • tallwheel

      Anyone could have found out her surname the way I did – by donating to her paypal account. Not sure any of her opponents would have been willing to give her even a cent just to find out her surname, though. I’d like to think her info was safe with anyone who would donate money to her cause.

      • Robert Crayle

        When I saw her video “You f***ing Cowards” I sat and thought how I would get her name and address if I was a mediocre internet bully. The paypal route took me about two minutes to come up with. Those people may not have been the brightest sparks to begin with…