I know, I know, the guy is kinda like a zit that won’t pop or respond to Clearasil. And I know that this quisling is supposed to be in the rear view mirror at this point, but he has raised his empty head for one last stab at mediocrity.
It seems now, after publicly agreeing to, and participating in a debate on domestic violence, he now wants all evidence he ever participated in said debate removed from this website. To wit, he just left the following in the comment section:
Paul:
You do not have my permission to post my debate contributions on your site any longer. Since you do not have legal ownership of any of my writings, I expect you to take them down immediately.
I will put my debate contributions up on my own site. You will be free to link to them, of course, and say anything you want about them.
I wrote you about this before, and got no response. I expect a response this time.
By the way, this was the general tone of his emails whenever he had an issue with anything. Arrogant and demanding.
And of course I gave him my response in the comments. 
Thing is, readers, this debate, which I invested considerable time and unparalleled talent in putting together, is now, in it’s complete form, my intellectual property. As Manboobz voluntarily submitted writing is now inextricably tied to mine in the form of debate, removing one would essentially destroy the other.
That would represent a significant loss to me.
As you can see in the comments, if you are so inclined, I have offered Mr. Boobz an arrangement, fully detailed, for compensation that I think is very appropriate.
While he thinks it over, let it be known now that any blogger in the sphere, MRA or otherwise, has my permission to repost this debate in full on their blog or website. I would appreciate a link back to AVfM in consideration, but I am not requiring it if you are not so disposed.
I am changing the current headline on the debate to reflect Manboobz name in full, as this will help anyone find the debate who does a search on his name. May I be so bold as to request those that repost the debate to use the title I provided? I am also killing the links to his site in the debate. As we pass this around, there is no point in boosting his search results back to his blog.
Sterling!
Cheers.
Tags: Chickenshit Feminist Quisling, David Futrelle, Debate, Paul Elam
657 Posts in Total
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dhanu:
M:
Shrek6:
Class-Punk:
onca747:
scatmaster:
I’ve never been in a debate forum myself, so I’ve never dealt with opponents in any formal fashion like the domestic violence debate, but I have to say, Mr. Futrelle’s response shocks me. Far more transparent and embarrassing than I imagined. If I ever comment at a website and inform everyone that I’m through posting there, you can be certain I won’t be back. You can bet your house I won’t return to demand that someone remove everything that I said. Unbelievable.
One word.
Coward.
Paul, you really are tops, man. You should ask Welmer if all of it can be posted on The Spearhead. Imagine that. 300,000 people apparently viewed his site last month. I think. Would you stand by what you wrote, Dave, if 300,000 people read it?
@ Tim
Another great thinker in the MRM! I am sending a link to this thread to Welmer, right fucking now.
I asked the fucktard to add me to his “enemies list” blogroll on his “new comment policy” article.
My comment (paraphrasing from memory):
“Hey,do you think there’s any way you can add me to your faggy little “enemies list”? Thanks a bunch,Fagtits. Kisses.
Oh, and I dug Andrea Dworkin up last night and slapped her in the mouth with my dick, how’s that for “girl power”,assholes?
P.S. Oh, and good luck with the ladies. I really mean that. I hope that strap-on just slides right in, so your woman won’t have to beat you to get you to quit sniveling and “take it like a man”, because obviously, if she does, you’re shit out of luck,huh?
Result: Comment removed.
No addition to the “enemies list”.
It’s really a shame because the writers on his list are some of the best. His enemies list is actually better than my own Ideological Allies list. I visit his site just to redirect me to other MRA’s. It’s that good.
Seems like everything this idiot does backfires on him. If he really cared about feminism, he’d stop identifying himself as one or before he quickly takes the entire movement down singlehandedly with his buffoonery.
“Chickenshit Feminist Quisling.” I really did laugh out loud at that one.
I have to say, Futrelle’s behaviour was appalling. I can scarcely believe it.
Still laughing.
@ Theodore
Saw that, did you? Keen eye, LOL!!
I love this
[img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/50101_1563257572_5901_n.jpg[/img]
Thanks for the attention dumb ass
Good God, what a little whiner. He can’t even accept losing gracefully, he wants all evidence of his loss deleted from history.
Typical leftist.
David must learn what feminists cannot: that choices have consequences.
Unbelievable, in this new move he has more clearly admitted his defeat, thanks for all your work on this Paul. It has moved me to make a financial contribution to the site.
What a shame guys like Thanatos are posting idiotic commentary like that for all to see and be posted elsewhere too, its sad to see the shine of victories in this propaganda war being dulled by the idiots among us.
“the writers on his list are some of the best. His enemies list is actually better than my own Ideological Allies list. I visit his site just to redirect me to other MRA’s. It’s that good.”
I had the same thoughts. He’s advertising us and he’s doing a good job.
Ohmigod. If we had any doubts about him being nothing more than a whiny little mangina, they’re gone now.
And guess what Mr. Dave Futrelle, the internet is pretty much forever. Every time someone googles your name, for a job, for a date, for a writing sample, or just to check your credit history, they’ll find your debate disaster here.
Your writing career is done. Wow. Epic fail.
“What a shame guys like Thanatos are posting idiotic commentary like that for all to see and be posted elsewhere too, its sad to see the shine of victories in this propaganda war being dulled by the idiots among us.”
If you’ll notice, what I actually did was adopt the feminist argumentative style in order to make a point about what it’s like to be on the receiving end of it,the utter contempt for his humanity was completely cribbed from HIMSELF and his compatriots.
So, call me an idiot if you wish, but all I’m trying to do is teach him to be a little more compassionate to others, and of course, to get my blog on that enemies list for t3h lulz.
Of course, if Paul feels that I’m tarnishing the “shine of his victory”, I will be a good chap about it and pipe down a bit. All he has to do is say so.
Dosnt matter, how you ment it Thanatos. You are still one of the army of loose lipped mra’s that happily provide damming counter propaganda to an enemy with much more expoure and power in the media that are always there posting nonsence in public whenever there is progress.
If you say so.
Put it this way Thantos..
If I am a pro MM journalist in the main stream media looking to do a piece in the movement and I come here and see your comments, cant put this site in my article.
If am an anti MM journalist and I am an anti MM journalist looking to do a negative piece on the MM, I come here and see your comments … bingo.
So not only are guys like you keeping us out of the mainstream, you are giving them a wealth of tools to use against us.
Just the fact that he has enemy lists on his blog tells me a lot.
Well done Paul. Now your arguments can be used as a reference in national level debates effecting national laws; and as they as set in writing, it will be difficult for the misandrist feminists to fudge and smear them.
Boobguy said–
“You do not have my permission to post my debate contributions on your site any longer. Since you do not have legal ownership of any of my writings, I expect you to take them down immediately.
I will put my debate contributions up on my own site. You will be free to link to them, of course, and say anything you want about them.
I wrote you about this before, and got no response. I expect a response this time.”
This isn’t about his (dubious) intellectual property, this is about his painful desire to have his little bloggy blog associated with a more widely read, better written, more intellectual LEGITIMATE site then his.
This is a classic diversion tactic. His first bit –
“”You do not have my permission to post my debate contributions on your site any longer. Since you do not have legal ownership of any of my writings, I expect you to take them down immediately.”
–is the misdirection, the APPARENT motivation or point of the post.
But this–
“…. You will be free to link to them….”
Is the real point here. He wants his dog and pony show to be closely tied to the main headliner and where his whiny, caterwauling, goose stepping little tantrums didnt work (after, of course, his own intellectual shortcomings were made public), now he wants to use threats to get what he wants…which is only, really, to ride your coattails…..typical feminist maneuver isn’t it?
This is you, Dave. Working for radical feminists:
quis·ling (kwzlng) n. A traitor who serves as the puppet of the enemy occupying his or her country.
And you just don’t know when to quit, do you?
David.
Im getting the impression that you are just seeking attetention and hits for your site and have no regard for intellectual intregrity and real debate. Either that or you are in total denial about what happened over the course of that debate.
Have to agree with Eoghan here. We need to be very aware of our comments since blogs such as this one are being monitored by feminists who could care less if the comment was made in jest or an exaggeration to make a point or whatever. They will simply copy and paste and point out the woman haters at avoiceformen and lump everyone in with the one comment. This is exactly what they have been doing for decades. Painting men with one brush that covers the canvas with paint from the well of a few pathological sorts. We have got to be smart about this stuff.
Looks like someone tipped off Futrelle that he actually lost and that he better cover up the blood and body parts that were strewn on the battlefield. This is a sure admission to defeat. Why would anyone not want their words to stand? Because they are ashamed. Let’s hope that Futrelle can mature a bit from this experience and develop compassion for both men and women.
I suppose that David would just ignore this:
Wow.
“He’s a fucking moron. He was, though, annoying enough to gain his 15 minutes of mediocrity.
Now that it’s over, it’s over. He won’t be getting attention from AVfM again.”
Despite the apprehension of giving underserved attention to manboobs, The DV debate was informative and educational for many.
Now, please stop paying attention to this ass-clown.
Paul if you’d be so kind as to email mail me your text copies of the complete debate, I’ll make sure they’re posted on the mensrights reddit. I want to be sure I’m not leaving anything out (hence the request).
Hey Dave are you still reading this if so you are a typical FUCKTARDED CUNT-CREEPER
I Suppose DICKS turn you on?
FAGGOT!
He must be still here I have a thumbs down?!?
HEHEHEHE I must be pissing him off
hey Dave been handcuffed recently? Because PEOPLE LIKE YOU deserve to ROT IN HELL FOR WHAT YOU’RE DOING
I meen christ I wear specs But I Don’t go around LOWERING myself to bitches standards My foxtel (foxbox) has some of the most Useless Pr0n on it i looked at the “adult” channel last night and saw to people at it hammer and tong AGH HAHAHAHA they were doing it wrong so hard that you could here their legs SMACKING TOGETHER and so forcefull to I heard about agressive but it looked more GAY then aggressive!!
Peter Clifford you stink !
One word.
Coward.
Two words – thoroughly fisked.
Excellent.
Clear boundaries and consequences are like cryptonite to these people with personality disorders.
Now, please stop paying attention to this ass-clown.
Actually, I would suggest just the opposite. The ignoring strategy was appropriate to the time before the momentum started swinging our way. Now that it has, I think it is time to go on the offensive.
I haven’t read either the so-called “debate”, but I’m sure it was like Mike Tyson in the ring with Pee Wee Herman, slapping Pee Wee around with one hand while his picked his nose with the other. The fact that even Futillity knows he lost so badly that he is attempting the cat box solution (“cover it up, maybe no one will see”) indicates that he fears personal humiliation. A reasonable fear – given the circumstances.
He is likely to end up not only the object of ridicule by MRAs, but also the target of hatred by his own side for performing so badly as the champion of their cause. Singlehandedly, he has done more to discredit the feminitwits than most MRAs are able to do in a lifetime.
This public “debate” was a stroke of genius on Paul’s part, even if it was like picking on cripples. That said, I think it is time to dog-pile on the cripple, and use his lameness to show to the world just how lame the ideology he adheres to and attempted to represent really is.
Perhaps we can go so far as to get a new word into the lexicon – which becomes the superlative of “to fisk.” Paul, “futrelled” this nimrod – baiting and suckering him into making such a complete and public fool of himself that he now wants to go into hiding. “Hey, he really futrelled that fool.”
We could also introduce the word “futrellety” – to describe embarking on a quest so obviously stupid, self-destructive, and impossible to succeed that humiliation is the only possible outcome. Like the chubby boy secretly filmed playing Jedi with a broom, the only way to respond is to disappear off the face of the earth.
Stripped bare of the ability to use personal attacks to silence dissent, the position of the feminitwits can easily be shown to be nothing more than hot air.
I say we not only let Futrelle serve as the poster boy for “this is what happens when cousins marry”, but that we give him every bit of help we can.
I agree with Denis. The debate was humorous and informative but I hope that people will stop paying attention to this guy. This was clearly a pathetic attempt to attract attention to himself and increase traffic on his site. Why should we do anything to help fatten his wallet?
I can’t believe this dude how he acted like he somehow owned the things he submitted to this debate. I haven’t said anything nasty about this guy, but he really is a pussy. Now there is permanent evidence for the internet to see. To say that David was in over his head is a gross understatement and now he is trying to back out. Ha ha ha guess what buddy it’s too late and hopefully all mangiana’s and feminists now know they can’t screw with a good MRA and not get burned.
@ kloo2yoo
Sorry, but there is only two practical ways to repost all the information in the “debate.” One is to just copy the text directly from the post, or, in the event someone wants to post it on wordpress or blogger, etc. I can copy the complete html and get it to them via a word doc.
All of manboobz entries were emailed to me as .html pages, and all of mine are scattered in different word docs. I know in a place like reddit the vids and images present a problem, but they all could be linked to from there.
If you want the html, please let me know and I will send it.
Either way, we don’t need to get it there for concerns I might have to remove it from here. I am happy to tell Fruity’s lawyers to piss off, just as much as I am him.
The debate is not ever being removed from this site. I just thought it would help pass it around if it hit other blogs.
Fruity has had some success peddling pedestrian penwork to the mainstream. Fine work if you are interested in zombie land. But I do want to make sure this clown never pens a word again on the subject of DV without making sure that a few more people stumble on his self inflicted intellectual suicide, and maybe learning something in the process.
Ah, so he is the David Futrelle who writes for Salon then? Weak.
btw, on my spelling error in my last post he pointed out, an obvious ad-hominem attack: feminist icon Jane Austen really couldn’t spell.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturenews/8080832/Jane-Austens-famous-prose-may-not-be-hers-after-all.html
“the writers on his list are some of the best. His enemies list is actually better than my own Ideological Allies list. I visit his site just to redirect me to other MRA’s. It’s that good.”
Ya know, it would be cool if someone would post that list here, so those of us who don’t want to go to his site can find these MRA writers…(hint hint)
OK, I guess I have to weigh in on a couple of points of contention here in the comments.
First, as to posting. I had no issue at all with Thanatos’s post. I read it just the way he described it, a foil to provoke David into including his blog on the manboob enemies list that didn’t work. And as I read everything else that Thanatos posted, it was evident that he was role playing and does not normally speak in that voice.
Now, I hate to take issue with someone who has promised a donation, and with Tom, whom I would trust with my first born, but I am also not really in a position to tell anyone to be “careful” about what they post. I design a lot of my stuff to force people to use it against me.
To the Futrelle situation, I agree with zed. Which again puts me in disagreement with people I admire and respect. That debate now has over 7,000 hits. And the general consensus, even among the handful who have no steak in this game, is that Futrelle – and thus feminist ideology – got a really severe ass kicking.
And for me where we are at in the MRM is publicly kicking feminists asses and uplinking our message to the mainstream wherever possible. These debates can educate people.
And so what if it ends up with another feminist moron getting some additional traffic? What is the harm of that compared to a feminist controlled MSM? Besides, traffic does not equal credibility. And from what I can see so far, the manboob has not convinced any more than one or two people to speak up for his message.
I’d like to see Jessica Valenti speaking up for him, though she is not quite that stupid to take on an MRA.
“Fruity has had some success peddling pedestrian penwork to the mainstream. Fine work if you are interested in zombie land. But I do want to make sure this clown never pens a word again on the subject of DV without making sure that a few more people stumble on his self inflicted intellectual suicide, and maybe learning something in the process.”
You have killed his career. This is priceless because he brought it on himself.
Hey, Futrelle – link for ya: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hubris
As a professional Web Developer I’m going to spend some quality time over the next week giving Paul’s site some pro-bono link juice so that anyone who Googles for David Futrelle will get to experience his pissy, immature, 10 year old brain at its finest. Perhaps his potential employers will think twice before hiring such an obnoxious, mindless mangina.
Just think, David, your chances for ever being taken seriously again have just fallen through the floor. Oh, and your prospects with the ladies have shriveled up and died (as have your balls if your world view is any indicator) but I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that you never had much luck with the ladies to begin with so you won’t notice much of a difference in that arena.
I’m going to make a prediction here; that the ladies start to hate on David more and more since he has been publicly branded a LOSER. And the delicious irony of it all is that he did it while white-knighting for feminism
It really doesn’t get any better than that!
LOL! He introduced me a few MRA sites I had not seen before. Thank you, Manboobz!
I think this is an excellent idea. I’m going to start using it on Reddit and when people ask what it means I’ll provide a brief explanation and point them towards the appropriate debate page. David Futrelle will go down in history!!! You can’t say this debate never brought you wide spread fame and attention, David. Now please pack up your barbie dolls and go home. Don’t let the door smack you on your pimply ass on the way out.
Here you go:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/
http://www.inmalafide.com/
http://roissy.wordpress.com/
http://www.antifeministtech.info/
http://antimisandry.com/articles/
http://religionnewsblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.the-spearhead.com/
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/
http://wwnh.wordpress.com/
http://deansdale.wordpress.com/
http://whatmenthinkofwomen.blogspot.com/
http://no-maam.blogspot.com/
http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/
http://counterfeminism.info/
http://riseofthezetamale.blogspot.com/
http://www.misandryreview.com/
http://www.henrymakow.com/
http://men-factor.blogspot.com/
http://www.ladiesagainstfeminism.com/
http://elusivewapiti.blogspot.com/
http://fullofgraceseasonedwithsalt.blogspot.com/
http://counterfem.blogspot.com/
http://news.mensactivism.org/
http://theantifeminist.com/
http://equalbutdifferent.blogspot.com/
http://hereticalsex.blogspot.com/
http://mensrightsboard.blogspot.com/
http://markymarksthoughts.blogspot.com/
http://kshatriya-anglobitch.blogspot.com/
http://www.manwomanmyth.com/
http://rebukingfeminism.blogspot.com/
http://human-stupidity.com/
http://rexpatriarch.blogspot.com/
http://thenononsenseman.com/
http://failuresforgodesses.blogspot.com/
http://mgtowsurvivalguide.blogspot.com/
http://foreignwomenonly.blogspot.com/
http://ihatewhitewomen.blogspot.com/
http://www.mediaradar.org/
http://avoiceformen.com/
http://manhood101.com/
http://www.angryharry.com/
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/roberts
http://thedamnedoldeman.com/
http://www.glennsacks.com/
http://happybachelor.proboards.com/index.cgi
http://www.mens-rights.net/
http://mgtow.proboards.com/index.cgi
http://menforjustice.net/
http://www.the-niceguy.com/
http://www.the-niceguy.com/forum/index.php
http://peterzohrab.tripod.com/
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/
http://dontmarry.proboards.com/
http://www.the-spearhead.com/forum/index.php
http://www.warrenfarrell.com/
LOL! That’s a LOT of enemies!! Not even Osama bin Laden has that many enemies!!!
I don’t usually don’t do this, but I’m going to have to disagree with Zed. If David’s blog weren’t totally overrun by a bunch of unoriginal/unfunny trolls right now (you’re doing it wrong), you would mostly notice that all the feminists and David supporters are giving themselves high-fives and pats on the back for a debate well won. Kind of like the scene over here, really. And that’s why making a giant stink about a debate that has no judge or supposedly neutral/trusted arbiter who declares a victor is generally a huge waste of time. If anything, I’ve noticed this debate (and the publicity given to manboobz) has brought out the worst in the MRA community. Just mosey on over to his blog and read the comment threads to see what I’m talking about. It goes like this:
Party A says something (X) and makes sweeping generalizations about party B
Party B counters sweeping generalizations with different generalizations (and/or ad hominem to good effect), categorically rejects X without refutation and instead posits Y
Party A: You’re fucking stupid
Party B: No you’re fucking stupid
Party A: No YOU’RE fucking stupid
Party B: NO YOU’RE FUCKING STUPID
Honestly. Nobody even throws in a good “your mom” for effect. It’s all very sad.
Point being, that is, we can all recognize that this debate wasn’t going to change the minds of die-hards on either side – feminists will keep being feminists (and thinking they’re always right), and MRAs will keep being MRAs (and thinking they’re always right). To an outside observer, both sides look eerily familiar. (And in case people are wondering where my loyalties lie and so on, my writing should speak for itself.) Maybe I’m just more in touch with those outside observers, because I’m constantly trying to bring people into the MRA community.
Dave gets Horny over MALE STRIPPERS!
Will you please….
Dave the Cave TROLL is at it again Paul hahahaha I have 12 thumbs down can you ip ban the little Mangina! he is really stinking up the place hey dave close your legs I can smell your cunt reek!
….please take your silly….
Hey Paul Tittyboy is thumbing me down not only me but You, Zed, Denis, Tom, Eoghan, Roland3337, Natasha, Frank, Thanatos, Snark, Jon j, Theodore Labadie and Tim. If you can find a way to IP ban the little prissy dickslip We would appreciate it.
…inane and empty hate filled posts and….
Now J. Durden is copping it!
…do something nice for everyone like…..
I’m tumbing up everyone to COMBAT what FUTRELLE is doing
….stop taking illegal drugs or start taking the prescription ones because…
Look futrelle::
You either PISS OFF or maybe you would like me to Ring a Q.C. about you and get your Internet account banned for LIFE!!
….every sincere MRA thinks you absolutely suck !
That said, I think it is time to dog-pile on the cripple, and use his lameness to show to the world just how lame the ideology he adheres to and attempted to represent really is.
Count me in, Zed. As in the movie ‘Gladiator’ when no one believed that slaves could destroy their opponents in the coliseum, so it is here. MRA’s are the proverbial David against the Feminazi Goliath Matrix, and Paul has chopped the limbs off of one their supplicants. It’s not yet time for a gentlemanly pause. I say we dogpile this loser and let everyone know how dissatisfied we are with the state of affairs; and that simply judging the consequences alone of DV, in isolation of all other factors, is the work of highly biased ideologues who do not seek the truth, but rather, a scapegoat: the human male.
Consequentialism defined: those moral theories which hold that the consequences of a particular action form the basis for any valid moral judgment about that action, or create a structure for judgment.
I suggest anyone look this up and let it sink in for awhile, because this is what we are up against. Can the moral worth of an action be judged on it’s intent or it’s consequences? Futrelle is a consequentialist; he couldn’t give a rat’s ass what the context is.
In fact, gender ideologues and feminists don’t care, either.
Which is why we need to kick this guy around for awhile, and make an example of him.
Two excellent articles written by Paul on Domestic Violence and Criminal Injustice.
Too much commentary on relatively unimportant and minor actors in the grand scheme of things. We need to change the attitudes of the uninformed and politically correct public. Debating with a minor feminist and then continuing in an exchange of insults doesn’t get that job done.
@ Denis,
Agreed. And thank you. I need a couple of days off. STILL dealing with these kidney stones, on meds, blah, blah, blah. But I am sure this will blow over, and I am not sure what else I could do to keep the momentum on this issue anyway.
@ Paul,
Frigging kidney stones they hurt like hell Lets hope this blows over BTW I think there are a few trolls on here pressing the thumbs down buttons on most people here!
Males are happy to kiss
Friday, October 29, 2010 » 10:18am
A new study says heterosexual male students are more comfortable kissing their male friends than ever before.
British university students now see nothing wrong with showing friendship to another man through a kiss on the lips.
Researchers at the University of Bath have found 89 per cent of men at two UK universities said they were happy to kiss another man on the lips through friendship.
Dude, I’m beginning to think the troll is you.
@Theodore Labadie,
Well, well this is a turn of Interesting events so now you ADMIT you were dissing my posts Dude I have been giving your posts a thumbs up HOW DARE YOU say I’m the troll when all I’ve ever tried to be here is friendly to all except feminists and manginas
Oh and if you’re concerned about the post above here is the link::
http://bigpondnews.com/articles/OddSpot/2010/10/29/Males_are_happy_to_kiss_532195.html
there you go and NO the troll is David futrelle get it right he doesn’t post he just sits there untill the website resets and tick on the thumbs down button.
Well if that’s the way you feel that’s your problem MISTER LABADIE! I will not tolerate abuse from the likes of you! I hope the AVFM website and other mens rights websites expand and it gets better from now on until we have a “fair playing field”
I doubt I will be posting anything Much here again!
If anyone of you (including Paul Elam) wish to contact me the address is fr33kSh0w2012@yahoo.com.au I am not posting here offering my TIME to be abused and contested by people like you labadie GOOD DAY!
I’m now Highly Irritated!!
Smoochies.
Oh so you want to be friends now? make up your mind will you and NO i would never kiss a man on the lips YECK! sorry not that way inclined!
I am 27 years old i live and was born in Australia and yes Australia is the FEMINAZI CAPITAL of THE WORLD!
Holy Crap !
You mean we live on the same land mass ?
On behalf of my country I deeply apologise for this… thing that thinks Mr Futrelle has been the only one down voting him.
(Hands cupped to mouth) We “bruvvers” have been thumbing you down because you carry the flag for lollipop-eyed bow spinning clowns. …not us.
I for one can’t down vote this twerp Peter C. fast enough !
He’s long gone now, already been banned.
Peter,
Chill dude.
Thanks Paul, but I don’t like accusations where there shouldn’t be any
I’ve mirrored the debate here, with a link back: http://feminismreview.blogspot.com/2010/10/dv-debate-david-futrelle-fulminates.html
You performed admirably. I’d have to disagree with some of the MRA reception towards this debate in that it accomplished nothing. I read a number of supportive comments (towards you or even MRAs in general) from passive observers or perhaps even disillusioned feminists on Futrelle’s blog. This might indicate that an informed, sober debate is the high-profile way to engage feminism, as they’ll often have similar ‘meltdowns’ and back out when their research is exposed as flawed and their methods as questionable.
While articles are excellent for informing and educating MRAs, debates – online and perhaps even in the public sphere – are the best way to win new supporters to our cause IMHO.
Yes, which is why I originally suggested Youtube. Futrelle didn’t want Youtube, and his reason now is obvious, but other debaters in future may not be so reluctant. A Youtube video does not need to be a video of the actual debater, only a recording of his voice with a static picture relevant to the debate–very easy to do with Movie Maker. People eat up Youtube like candy. And a vid can link back to the blog. Much more traffic.
Peter Clifford
Dude with faixfax at the helm.
To Peter Clifford
Archives of Sexual Behavour
In this article, we combined data from 145 interviews and three ethnographic investigations of heterosexual male students in the U.K. from multiple educational settings. Our results indicate that 89%have, at somepoint, kissed another male on the lips which they reported as being non-sexual: a means of expressing platonic affection among heterosexual friends. Moreover, 37% also reported engaging in sustained same-sex kissing, something they construed as non-sexual and non-homosexual. Although the students in our study understood that this type of kissing remains somewhat culturally symbolized as a taboo sexual behavior, they nonetheless reconstructed it, making it compatible with heteromasculinity by recoding it as homosocial. We hypothesize that both these types of kissing behaviors are increasingly permissible due to rapidly decreasing levels of cultural homophobia. Furthermore, we argue that there has been a loosening of the restricted physical and emotional boundaries of traditional heteromasculinity in these educational settings, something which may also gradually assist in the erosion of prevailing heterosexual hegemony.
Ref: http://www.ericandersonphd.com/journal-articles.php
The study is a bit sus to say the least.Also you can download at the link above.
One more thing as an MRA you must know you can NEVER thrust the media, always go to the original source.
I hate the media they spin so much shit!
Of course, the true traditional heteromasculinity in English culture was rather affectionate. You only have to go back as far as say, Tolkien, to find its remnants. But something happened around about the time of the advent of feminism and the birth of sexology. Suddenly, men weren’t supposed to touch.
Still, as E.M. Forrester wrote in Maurice, “England has always been disinclined to accept human nature.” That’s probably why it invented feminism in the first place.
sry it’s “Forrster”
Paul… I think you did an outstanding job. My view on what went down and future ‘debates’ though is this… no matter how absurd it might sound; please bare with me on my reasoning.
If an idiot like David wants to have another debate…. he needs to have it with somebody like Tara Palmatier. The simple reason is this…. She is a WOMAN who GETS IT. And as long as we have a few educated women who are actually on our side, who can put attention seeking male whores like David in their place…. the better it actually is for all of us MEN who know what’s going down. Even if it was coincidence or not with her recent post concerning male abuse… I was glad to see such an ally lurking in the wings. Thank you Tara…
Paul… again.. my hats off to you. Thank you for all the time you put into it even with your health issues. I know what it’s like to give it all you’ve got, even at the expense of one’s health….
peace
“Point being, that is, we can all recognize that this debate wasn’t going to change the minds of die-hards on either side – feminists will keep being feminists (and thinking they’re always right), and MRAs will keep being MRAs (and thinking they’re always right). To an outside observer, both sides look eerily familiar.”
-J. Durden
I can’t say that looking eerily like Feminism bothers me all that much.
Up until recently, there was only one army in this war. I’d rather look like the enemy, than look like a no-show. In wars, there are striking similarities between both sides – probably far more than there are differences. But the war is about those few differences. Those differences remain, regardless of a few unavoidable, and cosmetic, similarities.
Mongo:
Fighting fire with fire on this one isn’t going to do much except grant some angry guys some catharsis. One of the things I’ve appreciated about the MRA community was its general capacity for reasoned and articulate discourse. Then you look at guys like Peter Clifford and the horde of talentless trolls (trolling is an art form, damn it!) on the manboobz blog and you can throw reasoned and articulate discourse out the window.
As you said, there *can* be similarities between enemies, but the differences are the most important part. One of those important differences in this context, for me at least, is the exaltation of logos above pathos in public discourse. Flinging ad hominems around and calling everybody a cunt, while cute, doesn’t seem like it’s going to do much to advance any kind of agenda worth advancing. (And as an active duty Marine and fan of military history, I can tell you that armies don’t always look “strikingly similar.”)
Yes and I can tell you getting shot is an absolute bitch you drop like a sack of shit and the area feels ICY HOT and then BOILING HOT and your whole body feels ITCHY and STIFF all over while the effected area then feels like someone poured a combination of hydrocloric ACID and RED CHILLI PEPPER JUICE MIXED TOGETHER! not fucking nice at all betcha J. Durden can attest to that being a marine he would have got shot heaps of times and he would have KEWL GNARLY SCARS to PROVE IT!
Love the zelda avatar Mr Durden!
Hey Mr Durden have you heard of Duncan O’Finioan, Super Soldier and Psychic spy?
The Zelda avatar is a sort of scar in its own way. A funny little reminder.
I am not familiar with Duncan O’Finioan, but I’m looking him up now.
Are there two Peter Cliffords on this thread?
Yes, and they are both in the same head having some sort of weird fight as to who is the real one. that guy is a paddock short of a roo.
No surprise here. Just a continuation of the long and sordid history of historical revisionism by feminists. This debate was unfair from the begining of course. Paul kept using things like logic, reason, objectivity, statistics, science and “facts,” …when we all know that those are just patriarchial tools of male hegemony and oppression. Manboobz, on the other hand, used the more valid and more inclusive “women’s ways of knowing” by focusing on his subjective feelings, intution and listening to the inner voice of his mangina.
@ Carlos
Suitable for framing.
Point being, that is, we can all recognize that this debate wasn’t going to change the minds of die-hards on either side
J. Durden,
I don’t normally comment here, but I read that and had one thought:
For those who stop by here regularly, the debate wasn’t about MRA’s or Feminists, but was aimed at those who are on the fence. Debates don’t target the die hards, as they are there, regardless of what is actually said. I would be willing to wager, that Paul’s levelheaded approach with the links/proof/stats (etc.), backing him up, swayed many more people thank Futrelle’s meltdown. Futrelle came across as a spoiled brat who didn’t get his way. Paul came across as an intelligent and informed writer.
You are quite correct that all armies aren’t the same. But that doesn’t mean you can’t have your own squad that mimics the enemy, if for nothing else, infiltration and sabotage. They can do far more damage, than most are willing to admit.
E. Steven Berkimer,
My reservations are a direct result of sharing this debate with people who are on the fence and gauging their reactions. I haven’t been browsing the comments religiously, but has there been anyone that came forward and said “You know, I was really on the fence about this, but you’ve convinced me”? Obviously Futrelle has a much smaller readership, so you’re not going to see the same volume of gloating and high-fiving and victory celebrations, but you do see the exact same character of those festivities. And, keeping those on-the-fencers in mind, it really didn’t help when a bunch of trolls decided to flood Futrelle’s blog and basically hurl insults and epithets.
I understand very well that the objective of a debate is never to persuade your opposition – I debated competitively at high level for a number of years, occasionally serving as a judge. I am reticent to provide this link, because I wrote the post while in the throes of a manic episode, but I discuss at length what debate is really all about. There’s also some military “strategery” in there to, re: infiltration and sabotage.
My reservations are a direct result of sharing this debate with people who are on the fence and gauging their reactions. I haven’t been browsing the comments religiously, but has there been anyone that came forward and said “You know, I was really on the fence about this, but you’ve convinced me”?
To me, one of the saddest things about the MM is that we have basically spent the past 40 years arguing over “strategy”, and spending a lot more time worrying about the “fence sitters” than paying attention to the ground that was being gained by our enemies. It seems in general that the longer a man stays at this, the more willing to go on the offensive he becomes, as well as the more willing he becomes to be offensive. Paul is something of a case study of a man who has turned being offensive into an art form.
Many years ago I gave up trying to convince anyone of anything, and decided to let the family courts and the behavior of women convince any man who could look at social conditions today and still deny that there is a serious problem. The entire dialogue has broken wide open in the last 6-7 years, which I attribute entirely to a few aggressive men who have stopped worrying about fence sitters, jumped in the ring, and started breaking a few noses. Go to any lame stream media site and read the comments on any article about a subject related to the gender war. You will see hundreds of men who have never even heard of the MM covering our points chapter and verse.
The momentum is swinging against the feminitwits. There will always be holdouts like Futrelle, but public humiliation and outing him as a complete loser will skunk him completely and make people want to avoid him. I recently saw an article by a self-described “4th wave feminist” which said that describing oneself as a feminist was a good way to lose friends, relationships, and become socially ostracized. Of course, this woman simply wanted the best of cafeteria feminism, but she is far from alone among young women who do NOT want that label applied to them.
No football team ever comes out of the locker room at half time down 5 touchdowns and pulls their punches out of fear of losing the “fence sitting” fans. Women are beginning to wake up to how badly the feminitwits have screwed the pooch for them, and in another 5 years there will be women slapping anyone who insults them by calling them a “feminist.”
Manginas like Futrelle may stubbornly hang on a little longer, while all his femmie buddies keep putting him the LJBF zone. No one comes off the fence to hang with the losing side.
That is why Men are Going Their Own Way. You are free to pursue your favorite strategy, but almost no man has listened to any other man for the past 40 years, and I have no reason to believe they are suddenly going to start now.
If the goal is to publicly humiliate idiots for being idiots, I find it far more effective to bait them into making themselves look stupid than to hurl a bunch of insults and label them as stupid. Most reasonable people can ferret out an idiot when they see one – there’s rarely a need to get belligerent about it. One of my favorite games to play is the one where you take an opponent’s hypothesis/argument/point and pretend as though you accept it, and then take it to its logical conclusion. “You’re right, using dictionaries to define words is an awful idea! I’m much more confident that I’ll get an unbiased opinion from someone who receives millions of dollars from advocacy groups to prove an agenda. Thank you for enlightening me and bringing me out of my ignorance.”
I’m not saying we shouldn’t go tustle with feminists – I do it all the time, on Reddit, Facebook, forums, and in real life – but I am saying there are better and worse ways of going about it.
Read the debate….
Good work, Paul. You were Ike to David’s Tina.
I went to his site. Boring as hell. In fact, the only two articles that had the most comments were the ones where he was calling out the MRA’s to debate him.
So yeah…
He’s definitely doing this shit for attention. It’s only way he can actually get traffic for his wack assed site.