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I Don’t Thank Slaves, Rape Victims or Soldiers

I’m not a solider. I have never been in a war zone, never killed anyone, and the full extent of my combat training is a summer archery course and two books on Japanese swordsmanship. I was raised a pacifist, and war terrifies me. Not just the images of it, the sounds or the smells, but the very concept of war as a singular event or an institution.

And in the modern age it is an institution. War has been industrialized, capitalized, glorified, legalized, rationalized and mythologized for as long as one bastard has been able to talk another man into dying for him.

There’s a saying: Wars aren’t won by dying for your country, but by making the other guy die for his. Witty, pithy, and technically true, but also the usual bullshit. When men are sent to war, they aren’t expected to come back. That’s not the criteria for victory, just a happy coincidence if they happen to still be welcome (and useful) when they return. Low casualties look good in the press, but keeping those men alive is not the millitary’s goal. They just hate to waste investment.

Soldiers go to war so that, when somebody needs to die, they are there to do it. They lay down their lives so someone else won’t have to. They face the worst horrors imaginable. They fight and die to protect what they believe in.

I refuse to thank soldiers for that.

There is a push in the Men’s Rights Movement to get people to be more thankful for all the shitwork men do, from cleaning sewers to soaking up bullets in the Middle East. People say men put their lives on the line for the service of others, so we should give them a smart salute, a pension and a hearty Thanks.

I think that’s bullshit too.

I don’t thank a slave for a hard day’s work.

I don’t thank a rape victim for her stimulating services.

And I don’t thank a soldier for getting his identity crushed, his humanity stolen and his life ruined.

I thank people when they do something kind or helpful, out of a sense of loyalty or altruism, not when they get hurt. That’s all society does to soldiers: hurt them. Society uses and abuses men in general, but soldiering is the ultimate manifestation of the practice. Soldiers are the blunt instrument we use to clobber other countries and peoples we don’t agree with. Not just America, but any nation throughout history who has employed military force. Soldiers are implements of wholesale slaughter, but I’m not going to criticize all the men of history who participated in war. I don’t blame them; I pity them.

There is nothing heroic about war and I refuse to thank a soldier for his participation, because he is the victim. He is the indentured servant ground through bootcamp until there is little humanity left in him; the serial rape victim being butchered a little more each day on the battlefield; and he is the “freed” slave returned to his home with nothing and no idea what to do. What is heroic is that these men survive and, in the lucky cases, put their lives back together.

War destroys men. It can kill them, it can cripple them, it can leave them mentally traumatized for life. But even if it doesn’t, it leaves them changed. The very process of turning a man into a soldier involves turning him away from being a man, robbing him of his humanity to turn him into a weapon. Thanking a soldier condones not only what he did, but what was done to him.

War, as an institution, is the greatest con ever pulled, the most fantastic scam ever conceived, and we’ve been being played for thousands of years. Our tax dollars go to fund propaganda campaigns, to perpetuate the system of poverty that leaves no other way out, to train/dehumanize the young men, and then to arm them so they can go off and die like good little lambs.

The debate over war and soldiers needs to be re-framed. Blaming soldiers for the atrocities of war is like blaming the gun for a mass shooting, except that here the gun is a human being. Thanking a soldier is a sadistic kind of irony, like kicking a man’s teeth out and then thanking him for not bleeding on your shoe. Soldier’s are victims of war. Not its perpetuators, not its heroes, but its victims.

There are no Good Wars. They all started with men being coerced into risking their lives, then other men being conned into doing the same to fight them, and so on. None of them ever should have started at all. If all the men of history hadn’t been made afraid and ashamed to say no, none of them ever would have. The first wars were likely manned through fear and desperation, but once it was found to be profitable society started pushing to glorify the life of the soldier, to make men want to be soldiers.

It is time for this to stop. I don’t want soldiers to be thanked, or to be condemned, but to be promised, Never again. War is the most dehumanizing, cruel, pointless, needless, inhuman form of power control ever achieved. It is pure exploitation of another human being, like rape, but done en masse, like slavery, with the added mindfuck that a soldier’s one job is to kill other human beings. That is not natural, that is not noble, that is sick.

When I see a veteran proudly wearing his uniform, I pity him. Not because there’s anything wrong with him, but because he has been taken for a ride and will never be the same man again. Whatever he believes about his Cause, he has been changed, twisted, and turned into a tool to be used and disposed of on a whim. Throughout history, soldiers have been the pawns strewn on the board, sent to slaughter one another until the king or emperor or president with the most left “wins”. Numbers chewed through a meat grinder.

I have no respect for the military because it is a criminal organization that exploited my forefathers and continues to exploit my brothers. No amount of benefits will make it right and no number of heroic homecoming parades will change what it really is. War is wrong and it needs to stop. Being grateful to soldiers is just another way of asking more young men to follow. It’s no different than victim blaming, denying something wrong was done and leaving the door open for even more lives to be ruined by the ravages of war.

The next time you see a soldier, don’t say Thank you. Say I’m sorry. Most of them aren’t alive to hear our apologies, but they didn’t die for us. They didn’t die for anything. They were murdered by a consumptive system and they deserve nothing less than to never have another grave join their own.

Don’t thank them, save them.
Feature image by Phillip James

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About Ayami Tyndall

Ayami Tyndall is a self-trained network administrator and author from California. Mixing technology and social exploration, his science-fiction novels cast a new light on today's cultural problems. Raised rurally and in love with nature, he believes in the grand American tradition of Self Reliance.

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  • Jesse James

    As a vet, I was pissed at first. Then I wanted to cry as this is beautiful. It should be required reading.

    Although, the men who “trick us” into dying for them sometimes do have legitimate battles to fight; and they surely cannot fight them themselves.

    War, like the concept of “sin,” or death; is nothing to laugh at. Let alone trivialize or make comical. For every war that could be considered justified, a thousand were not.

    The problem with the other thousand, is that the “evil side” never let their victims (the other nation, or their own troops) have a say about it.

    Thus, war like death, will be with us as as long as human beings love themselves more than others.

    Sadly, that self centeredness is a part of who we are. Intrinsic to our nature. So I don’t see it going away any time soon.

    Because of this, the Roman adage still stands….”You want peace? Prepare for war!

    I will be glad if any one can prove it wrong. But even the one who said it originally was not in love with it. That “serial killer” butchered many. Often, they do it for fear of being butchered themselves.

    Power is what it is. Catnip to the noble minded, and the sadist. Both will succumb to it. One just thinks they can control, and “change the world.” The other embraces the chaos, and does not care who they hurt. Before I turn my guns into plow shares, I will see a world devoid of selfishness, and lack of understanding.

    I’m not holding my breath.

    • Dagda Mór

      And yet there has been a change. The introduction of thermonuclear weapons and MIRVs into the equation prevented what would almost certainly have become world war three, as the US and the Soviet Union battled it out over the ruins of Europe.

      Despite the strains of the cold war, open warfare never did break out between the two superpowers. I don’t think war is intrinsic to human nature, I think those in power have become accustomed to using it as a tool, following a tradition with a vintage of tens of millennia. What nukes do is give those in power nowhere to hide, so the lesson is clear – make the cost of war a personal one to the leadership, and war doesn’t happen.

      Dean has mentioned previously that democracies have never historically gone to war with one another – I haven’t really checked that but it sounds accurate. This is more approaching pacifism from the angle of removing the ability of leaders to go to war with one another, but it seems effective.

      On a broader note I do agree with the article, but I think countries should retain the capacity to defend themselves from aggression. I also think that there shouldn’t be barriers to men or women who want to educate themselves in the ways of force, despite being a devout pacifist myself. Realism’s voice needs to be heard as well.

      Controlling and understanding these impulses and their limits is important, this is why the majority of the most effective hand to hand combat techniques have come from Buddhist countries, which on their face should be completely nonviolent. For the most part they actually are nonviolent, but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how to fight if they need to.

      Perhaps the Swiss model is the way to go culturally, sans conscription.

      • 2cyar

        “Dean has mentioned previously that democracies have never historically
        gone to war with one another – I haven’t really checked that but it
        sounds accurate.”

        Taking the unilateral power for military action out of the hands of the President, and requiring a declaration of war from congress before attacking and/or invading other countries, would be a good first step IMO.

        • Rez

          As I recall, the thing about Dean’s words is that true (in his definiton) democraciy (universal voting right, for instance) not exactly common occurence in history. It mostly appeared in the modern times. So the root of their peacefulness to each other can lie in existance of weapon of mass destruction and common enemies.
          I, personally, don’t think that unwillingness to going to war with each other is inherent part of democracies.

      • Jesse James

        Very true, it is easy for the elites when they are not the ones going to die. However, the UCAV (think the movie stealth), drones (all land, sea, and air), and long range weaponry of every stripe; is either here, or very soon to be down the pipe. Like all within the next ten years. Look up rods of God if you really want to crap yourself! (It was suppose to be 15 years down the road like ten years ago? Also, it was the main weapon in thee last GI Joe movie).

        When leaders have the ability to not lose their own (pay for it), kill the other side without consequence (as in they can’t retaliate without going nuclear), and have as little morals as most of ours do (both rep and dem); know you are in for a wild ride of propaganda telling you why your taxes are being “used for the greater good!”

        It is what it is, and always will be.

        • http://ludovicurbain.blogspot.be/ Ludovic Urbain

          Actually, soldiers are so much cheaper than equipment…

      • PaulMurrayCbr

        What’s the key thing about modren warfare? The thing that make it uniquely horrible?
        Women get killed. “Civilians”. Women. If it weren’t for that, it would still be manly and heroic.

    • Pvblivs

      The Roman adage does not stand. It is more accurate to say that war is (for practical purposes) inevitable. Any person or nation that prepares for war will — sooner or later — seek out a use for those preparations. For war to end, we would need that no nation ever prepared for it. And we all know how often THAT happens.

      • Jesse James

        True, however, do you want to be the country that was unprepared next to one that has always been preparing?

        • Magnus

          Interesting question.
          As I would argue that most wars since WW2, have been those kinds of wars.
          “That country is weaker than us, and pose a ‘threat’, so we attack them”

          But we avoid war at all cost with Russia and China, because we KNOW a was like that would be hell.

          You don’t want to fight a war against someone as strong as yourself. Ironically the Cold War did a lot for peace between the big countries, but sadly very little for the proxy wars of the same era.

  • DukeLax

    I will have to send this link to a buddy of mine who got blown up by an IED in Iraq, and see what he thinks.
    On another note, i believe many of the folks that participate in the MRM have a warrior in them. Its not easy doing what “Cafe” is doing….going into the bowels of the gender-feminist rats nest, and turning on the light. It takes some intestinal fortitude to do that shit.

    • DukeLax

      wooops maybe “Rats nest” was a little harsh, maybe its just what the reputable new york lawyer “Judith Grossman” has called a…..”Snake pit of injustice”

  • Victor Zen

    This is a fresh, unique perspective that I really have to give some thought. I’m honestly not sure what I think of the position when it is taken this strongly, at least not yet. Either way, I still think that this piece came from compassion, and I thank you for that.

    Not too long ago I talked to someone in the army that made it clear that he enlisted for himself (money, perks). His service in the military was, according to him, entirely selfish. I would like to hear his opinion on this one.

    • OldandNavy

      I am active duty enlisted and I think I will chuck my ten cents in.

      There is a big difference between words and the might to make words into concrete reality. The United states was declared through words – impotent flatulence in the face of an unblinking king without the hot red blood of dedicated colonials to back then up.

      The third reich marched and would have continued to had it not been for the steely will to oppose it. So many in the states slept sweet sleep on their soft beds because their brothers, uncles and fathers slept on stones lit by artillery fire and then came home to labor their nation into a super power.

      I dearly love the freedoms that allow the writer of this article to Penn phrases that make my blood boil. I love them so much that I will continue to stand the watch and lay ready to cast down my life so that they may endure, no matter what is written to cheapen it.

      I am a United States sailor.

      I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.

      I represent the fighting spirit of the navy and those who have gone before me to defend freedom and democracy around the world.

      I proudly serve my navy’s combat team with HONOR, COURAGE and COMMITMENT.

      I am committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all.

      Period. I don’t need a “thank you”.

      • Jesse James

        I too am a sailor, and I can tell you that the “Sailor’s Creed” you just espoused here is not repeated by the officers who lead you. They merely stand at attention while you say it. They are our masters, we are their servants as far as most of them are concerned.

        Many of the enlisted who go mustang, only go so they can get a two week reprieve from their fat wife nagging them into the ground early. Basically, they want a better pension, and the ability to buy their wife more friggin handbags.

        Your right about our forebears who slept on stones kept warm by artillery fire. But when our leaders go to war for the wrong reasons, you will be thanking that hippy for being stubborn enough to tell them to shove it on our behalf.

        Not all knights were knighted for combat. Some were knighted for other services. Not everyone is suited for combat, but that does not mean they disrespect those who do. Merely demand that those who do, are sent to die for the right reasons.

        They know how much they need us back home. Taking us away from home for BS, well that does not sit right with everyone. Be thankful that we have these guys. In Vietnam, I agree with you, they took it too far. But the American people needed to be woken up from their patriotically brainwashed slumber. I know I did.

        I am glad for men like this, for theirs may not be my courage, but it takes courage none the less to say what they say.

        • OldandNavy

          You assume too much. I understand very well the officers over me. They aren’t some mysterious, unseen cult of secret secrets, man. I have many officers in the family, as well as enlisted.

          I don’t want anyone speaking up on my behalf, either. If a person or a group of people disagree with the federal government’s reasoning for military action, then let them sing -and loudly -about it. It’s their right.

          In the mean time, I’m just going to continue shoveling the shit and training the kid who gets the shovel when my time is past. Patriotism is not a synonym for brain washing.

          My advice is to get the hell out of the navy (that you really did seek out on purpose) you volunteered into and have so little faith in. I can think of nothing more dangerous than a warrior who’s ability and obedience fold in the worst of moments due to hollow oaths and empty commitment. I certainly hope that if you are in a leadership position, you don’t subvert the chain of command in front of your juniors.

          I’m a little prickly in that area, Jesse.

      • Dagda Mór

        Period. I don’t need a “thank you”.

        Don’t worry, you won’t get one.

        • OldandNavy

          Lol. You already gave me one. You woke up today and made decisions – you, yourself – accessed a liberal information network, selected a site you agreed with and left your very own opinion. You’re welcome. You don’t need to say it. Or think it.

          • SoWhat78

            So, are you trying to say that I need to thank you for the few freedoms we have in the U.S.A? Why? What are you doing to preserve my freedom?

          • OldandNavy

            By exercising your many freedoms, you are giving me all the thanks I’m ever going to need.

            Beyond that, I’m never going to have to justify my service to each and every citizen who can’t answer that question for themselves.

          • SoWhat78

            I hold nothing against you for being in the military. Just don’t ask me to worship you and bow down before you because you were in the military.

          • OldandNavy

            Lol. Oh, not me. You misunderstand. Loathe me. Call me a Jack-booted thug of an overbearing, totalitarian regime if you like. Do it loudly.

            I’m proud of my service and that is so absolutely unrelated to your approval it would astonish a park statue.

            Hell, hate me deeply and completely. Teach your children to spit on us and scream insults at us, if it is something you believe. Just exercise your rights and never, ever allow someone to try and prevent you from doing so.

            No one said anything about bowing and such. You have mistaken my pride for a need for gratitude, somehow.

          • SoWhat78

            “No one said anything about bowing and such. You have mistaken my pride for a need for gratitude, somehow.”

            This is certainly a possibility. We are on the internet after all, and since we are not meeting in person, so we don’t see facial expressions, body language. etc. But if I have misunderstood you, I think it’s a reasonable misunderstanding, considering the fact that I have witnessed several military personnel and ex-military personnel demand to be worshiped and adored for their “service”. Also, the media (at least the mainstream media) encourages military worship 24/7. This doesn’t help things either.

            “Hell, hate me deeply and completely. Teach your children to spit on us and scream insults at us, if it is something you believe. Just exercise your rights and never, ever allow someone to try and prevent you from doing so.”

            Nope, I don’t hate you, don’t have kids, and if I did, I wouldn’t raise them to spit on you and scream insults at you. I admire your passion for all of us to have freedom of expression, even if you disagree with us. You are a nice contrast from many military dopes who say, “I fought for your freedom to express yourself, but if you say anything bad about the military, I’m going to kick your ass.”

            Feel free to be proud of your service. Personally, in good conscience, I couldn’t serve in the military, nor would I encourage anyone else to do the same, but I certainly don’t hate military personnel per se. It sounds like you and I just have a gentleman’s disagreement. No shame in that.

          • OldandNavy

            You have a pretty level headed take on it. My family has served, in every generation, since the revolutionary war. Its a bit of a family tradition and a value we see a lot of merit in.

            Others don’t but hey, that’s life. It’s a dirty job but someone has to do it, as the saying goes.

            I, too, would love to see the need for standing armies evaporate. So many young men and women who could be out doing something else, no matter how proud they are of what they are doing now.

      • Sadman365

        “I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and I will obey the orders of those appointed over me”. How much do you really know about your constitution? I bet ZERO. If you did, you wouldn’t be saying this unless you were one of two -an ignorant brainwashed sheep, or a lying hypocrite. But I’m pretty damn sure you’re the first.
        Good for you sheep. The military needs disposable sheep like you.

        • OldandNavy

          That was some kind of…..assumtive…. mess of rude. But however you like. Your fingers.

          You basically said “I disagree with you and do not understand your creed or how you function within it so….you JUST HAVE to be an ignorant-brainwashed-sheep-hypocrite” that’s a pretty tired approach.

          I suppose I could use a snarky “feminists use that one so you must be… our else you are a brainwashed Hippy…”

          I don’t know much of anything about you so I’m really not feeli’n it. That would make me a blow hard, too.

          • ihateyourguts 25

            Henry Kissinger once said this:

            “Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy”.

          • OldandNavy

            Sounds like Mr. Kissinger said something stupid. Or he is just an ass hat. Nah. He’s an ass hat. And why repeat that horse shit, anyway?

            I have some more Kissinger Goooold for ya….”The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.”…..”Covert action should not be confused with missionary work”……maniacal little troll. Nobel peace prize, my nose!

            Oh, to seal the hypocrisy up right, look the man’s military record up and you will see that he was ANYTHING but a stupid animal. Pawn, perhaps, but a smart one. Effective, yes. Smart as a whip, yes. A-movin’ up that ol’ ladder? You becha’. Evil as hell? Yes.

            In 1973 that bum and Mr. Nixon (either in an attempt to stop flow of troops and supplies our just accomplish nothing, really) pushed the intense bombing of Cambodia which killed over six hundred thousand people and set the joint up for Pol Pot to take over…and kill another 1.5 mil…..and then said “why should we flagellate ourselves for what the Cambodians did to each other?”

            Don’t quote a rancid megalomaniac in support of your position unless you want to share the same low esteem.


      • Sadman365

        Oh and remember, your leader did NOT give you your freedom. No, you stupid sheep. Every human being is BORN FREE. It’s a human RIGHT. It’s NOT a privilege that your leader bestows on you, like you and the other sheep like you are made to believe. It is those very leaders that you like to serve and die for are the ones who are taking our freedoms away. But what does a misguided sheep know? Amazing what a little bit of brainwashing does to us (the so-called intelligent race). And you come here and bark back those words that you’ve been fed thinking you’re showing you’re smart.

        • OldandNavy

          Another statement born of a lack of understanding. My obedience to lawful orders has everything to do with the oath I swore to do so and nothing at all to do with brain washing of some kind.

          My understanding is that the framers of the constitution got it right – that no government or leader has the ability to grant rights, but can merely recognize them. They are natural, born-in and inalienable.

    • mike gibbs

      Obviously, that ‘someone’ was disillusioned. Did nobody tell him he would have to kill or be killed?!
      Not sure that’s worth a paycheck. I’d rather flip cheese burgers and be able to sleep at night. Still, I understand that if we did not have a military, we would be run over by those who do.
      What is the answer? Who knows. The world is going to hell in a hand basket…

      • OldandNavy

        Who knows indeed. No need for militaries? Sounds good to me.

        • ihateyourguts 25

          Not going to happen. The elites will never allow one of their greatest sources of wealth to go away. War is here to stay, and there will always be idiots who go to fight them.

      • Susie Parker

        You can sleep well at night AND flip burgers for those who over ran your country. It’s not so bad. Why fight the inevitable?

        • OldandNavy

          I suppose if they were benevolent overlords…

          • Susie Parker

            Overlords are always benevolent. Look at how appreciative Adolph Hitler was toward pacifists. “The world will be a better place when women run it.” “Better red than dead”.

          • ihateyourguts 25

            Overlords are never benevolent.

            I bet you are an feminist.

          • Susie Parker

            Feminists hate and envy Military men for their manliness, their contributions to society, their strength of character and the sheer guts it takes to be one. You know – just like you do.

    • http://ChristophDollis.com/3AF Christoph Dollis

      I’d also like to hear the opinion of someone who joined the mafia, almost certainly a male, and on the risks they face in imposing violence on others, following whatever orders they receive.

      • ihateyourguts 25

        The only thing i find admirable in, say, Cosa Nostra is that they don’t recruit women. God only knows what kind of hellhole Italy would be if that were the case. Women ruin everything they touch.

    • Susie Parker

      Think maybe this guy was feeding you something you wanted to hear? There are certainly far easier, better ways to be “purely selfish” than by enlisting in the military. Selfishness is about the least attractive quality the military has to offer – you give yourself over to a relatively small group to maintain the comforts and benefits of those would spit on your grave. All your actions are dictated and motivated for not your own benefit but the greater good of that group. You eat, sleep, dress and think as a group, low pay, harsh living conditions, and abandonment as soon as your body gives out. Yep. Sounds like a selfish man’s wet dream to me.

      • OldandNavy

        Heh. I see your point, Susie. There’s a lot of folks, however, who don’t want to see that the pay is just fine, the benefits (though being torn at on every point) are good, and being let go with a severance of your health or wounds can’t support the load is better than a lot of folks have.

        Nothing is perfect, but I have never regretted my career choice.

        • Susie Parker

          My son in law is career military, and walking around the family housing areas I can’t help but notice how many military family members are in wheel chairs and/or have debilitating medical issues. Medical benefits for his family is why my Son in law continues to serve. It was the only way he could get the prohibitively expensive medical care needed for his child from a first marriage. His first wife certainly doesn’t feel obligated to put her life on the line to provide medical care for her child’s birth defects(she didn’t stop smoking or drinking during pregnancy, why would she take responsibility for her child’s health issues now?) There are an array of reasons anyone serves in the military, but “selfish” is probably the last reason I’d find plausible.

          • OldandNavy

            Indeed. The service is more than just a tradition in my family, it is peace of mind that food goes on the table, medical care is available and if I get smoke checked, the wife and kids are well taken care of.

            Also, there’s thereally fulfilling, challenging career. So it’s a little selfish. I want to be a lost boy forever and I don’t ever wanna’ grow up.

          • Susie Parker

            It was a pretty horrible experience for me, I was more than happy to accept an early out when Vietnam ended and told my husband he would go it alone when he considered reenlisting. I’ve just turned 60 and to this day people STILL immediately ask “Was that where you met your husband” when I mention I served. ” Lesbian, whore, nymphomaniac, out-to-trap-a-husband” every day for three years got a bit wearing. My baby brother served on the Shasta during Gulf War 1, and my nephew was on The Eisenhower during the Loveboat scandal era. My Dad was a ball turret gunner in the Army Air Corp, my Grandfather was WWI Navy and had to lie to my Grandmother denying his naval service – I guess Sailors had a really, really bad reputation after the first world war. I can’t think of a single male family member of mine or my husband’s who hasn’t served.

          • OldandNavy

            Nearly the same in my family. Tell them all, those still with us that I appreciate the hard work they did while I was waiting to be big enough to pick up the rope.

            And thank you, kindly, for yours. I know how tough it can be sometimes and I really appreciate it.

            …and sailors aren’t supposed to have a good reputation, from what I understand. Heh. My wife has a shirt that says “sailor mouth” across the front and I don’t think it refers to choir attendance.

  • 2cyar

    “A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.”
    Napoleon Bonaparte

    I would ask any young person who wants to join the military today to be a ‘hero’, why they think so little of themselves.

    And if they are doing it to get a trade or skill so they can support themselves, they should be asking themselves why they don’t have any other choices.

    So many of the wars fought, in hindsight, turn out to have been for nothing, or for ego, or for some ideology etc.

    And as for that ‘human rights, freedom, and democracy’ thing? I think that MHRA’s are aware more than most of what a bunch of bullshit that is.

    Do you think your government appreciates your service? Look at how quickly they were willing to turn on General Sinclair for political reasons. See how the courts will use your service as an excuse to remove you from your home and deny access to your children because you’re ‘dangerous.’ Your government is just using you. You are only a tool, a utility, a means to their ends….and that is how it has always been. Very few wars can be considered ‘just’ wars.

    I agree that when you see a veteran, you shouldn’t be thanking them….you should be apologizing to them.

    • OldandNavy

      Apologise? Perhaps. But I don’t think that apologising for the nature of out collective species nor for the costs of a secure state is a burden you need bear.

      • CathyMurphysTeddy

        So you enjoy being rode up the hole?

        • Susie Parker

          You being the one to do the “riding”, right, CathyMurphysTeddy?

          • ihateyourguts 25

            Shut up, feminazi bitch.

        • OldandNavy

          Lol. If that is your assessment of a situation you don’t appear to clearly understand…then I suppose I do.

          Heh. Besides, don’t ask don’t tell is dead. It’s aaaaal cool now, broski.

    • George

      +2cyar: Brigadier General Sinclair is not a good example of how the government “turns” on someone. An unscrupulous woman made false sexual assault claims against him, and that truly sucks! But, by his own admission, Sinclair engaged in a variety of behaviors, over a several-year period, that he KNEW were both wrong and against Army rules. He was in a very high-visibility position. He was fully aware that he had a fundamental responsibility to set an example for subordinate officers and soldiers. HE FAILED. The truth is, if he hadn’t done the inappropriate things he did, both in this current incident and in others, he wouldn’t have been nearly as vulnerable to the false sexual assault claims. Furthermore, he wouldn’t have created a golden opportunity for feminists to advance their false, politically-motivated claims of a sexual assault “epidemic” in the military. And guess what – all Sinclair got was a small fine; he didn’t even lose his star.

    • Sadman365

      THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, my friend. If we only 1% of the world’s population were like you…. But again, most are just sheeple. All they can do is follow like the sheep that they are. Easy to brainwash them and fool them with a few words…They see the truth but they’re too dumb to think.

      • ihateyourguts 25

        Well put. Soldiers are far too stupid to understand how they are being exploited. Henry Kissinger hit the nail in the head by claiming military men are just stupid animals.

        • Susie Parker

          Unlike you, of course. How do you manage to soar like an Eagle when surrounded by so many Turkeys?

  • crydiego

    I agree with a few of the things you said in your post. As for the rest, well, I don’t think it’s worth getting in a fight with someone just because of their ignorance.

    • johncullison

      Alex, I’ll take “Something a Feminist Might Say” for $600.

  • Stu

    War is driven by the requirement of men to provide for women. Just about everything is. Think about it. The competition men have to engage in to compete against each other,for reproductive success. You must continue to provide more. Continual improvement of lifestyle. More shoes, more handbags, bigger house, ,more luxuries, more, more, more, always more. But not just reproductive success, but to have a woman stay This drives men to be the better providers, have more income, the bigger house, etc, etc. This is why mgtow are content with more modest lifestyles, they aren’t trying to keep up with the “Johns”

    The fact is, men are far more content with much less in the material sense than women are. It might not look like it from the outside because what we see is so many men focusing on career, earning bigger money, buying flashy cars, big houses etc. But it is mostly to be attractive to women. It’s mostly to acquire women, or keep the one, or ones, you have. It’s to keep the supply of sex, love, affection, intimacy, etc, coming. This is because most women put a price on the provision of all of those things…..and that price is……supply them with protection and provision of tangible goods. And keep improving on that.

    If you went back two hundred years and shown any woman videos of the life of the average woman today, even a poor women,and asked if she would be happy with that, she would say……you bet…..heaven…..want for nothing. Bring them here, and they would indeed want for something……more

    Women hide this desire to exploit men behind a whole heap of bullshit words. I was talking to a woman a couple of weeks ago who was explaining to me why she was seeking a new fuck buddy. She said she really liked the guy she had been seeing on a personal and sexual level, but she wanted to find a guy for a more serious relationship and she desired a man who was more intellectual because she valued the deep, intellectual conversation etc etc. She said being university educated etc was on the top of her list because of that. LOL And she told me she had met a guy who was a CPA. Yep, university educated. She had been on two dates with him and was really impressed with him. I put it to her that it had nothing to do with intellectual conversation and all of that crap…..it had to do with him being able to provide more in a material sense then the other guy. She was really offended lol And I just said……really……what are these intellectual conversations going to consist of……..talking about crunching numbers and producing reports lol

    Now if you take a guy who has degrees in arts, and philosophy, etc, but is unemployed…..well he still has the intellectual conversation going for him doesn’t he…….yeah right. If that guy ever becomes an unemployed accountant, he wont be worth shit. And all the conversation in the world wont save him from the scrap heap.

    Women create the need for men to produce more, to acquire more, to climb over the next guy and throw him under the bus, to get more. If it was up to men, war would only happen in extreme circumstances, like famine.

    • Jesse James


      Sensei, your words cut to the marrow like a Rambo knife through butter. Hopefully, more tad poles will be ready to leave the temple next time. Know I am. I married foreign, I love my wife, don’t get me wrong; but I miss the freedom of being poor, but not needing much.

      • Stu

        You don’t need to miss being poor, you are poor lol You own…nothing. You are married, you don’t even own yourself. Hate to break it to you, but your house, your income, your job, your body even, is not yours, it’s property of……your wife. How much of those things she allows you to enjoy, is up to her…..not you. Just as a kind slave master may allow her slaves a great deal of freedom, if she chooses too.

        A definition of “owning” something, would be that you have the right to possess, and use that “thing” including the right to allow others use of it, at you discretion. And that that “thing” can not be just taken off you. Does that describe anything you “own”

        How about your body? Do you think you have the right to….stick your dick where you choose too…..for example. Do you think you have the right to deny your sexual services, or affection? Do you think you have the right just change your job…..to something lessor…….or how about not working at all……can you do that.

        How about even just……going away for a weekend………if you have to ask someone elses permission….and get their approval……..you are owned.

        Lets face it…..a married man has no right to decide anything for himself anymore. He has to consider the fact that his wife has the power to strip him of his assets, his children, his home…..or even get him locked up…..on a whim. That means you are in a position where you must do as she wants…….or else.

        You don’t need to miss being poor…..you are poorer then ever…….enjoy :)

        • OldandNavy

          Funny, I go away for the weekend whenever I want. I don’t have sex if I’m not feeling it. I DO SICK my sick wherever I please (my value of monogamy and oath swearing is a wholly internal control). I do the job I want and only a fuck tard drops the rope on the obligations they CHOOSE. My mate no more has vile “whims”than I do. Proper partner, there.

          Perhaps you need to experience an actual factual proper relationship and quit mincing about with reasonable facsimiles.

          No one “owns” anyone in a functioning union. It’s kind of whach’a call a team effort.

          • Stu

            Oh I’ve had proper relationships. And you sound just like every other guy in a proper relationship. Guess what, the sky is blue, and it’s also a fact that a man, any man, including you, only has the rights in “real relationship” that his female partner allows him. That makes it, a privilege. You know that different between a right, and privilege don’t you. I’ll remind you just in case. I right is something other people can’t deny you. A privilege is something they can deny you.

            Any man in a marriage or living together with a woman, has the privilege of continuing to live in his home, etc, etc, etc. You can tell me how many privileges your wife grants you as much as you like, the fact is they are still privileges that she grants of denies. That is a fact. Don’t get mad at me because you don’t like facts.

          • OldandNavy

            Poorly worded on my part, not knowing you and your relational background.

            I see what you are getting at, stu. I’m not going to plug my ears and argue that your view isn’t waaay too often pretty close to how our shakes out. Sorry, though. I don’t have any privileges granted here. I married a woman who takes her oaths and character as seriously as I do. We both understand that we don’t have the ability to assign each other rights or “privileges”, only to respect those of the other and the whole.

            I am sometimes dismayed at the incredibly pessimistic views around here but I recognize that everyone (hopefully) tries to root them in critical thought.that being true, I have to respect your take on it, but I don’t have to fall within it.

            But please do stop trying to liken my wife to a wolf crouching at the edge of the farm. You really are disrespecting a very good woman that you know nothing about, regardless of whatever you have decided that all women are all the time always.

          • Stu

            Not disrespecting anyone. Just trying to get you to see the reality….you rely on her good heart for your safety…..you should be able to rely on the the law…..but you can’t. She can, you cant. That is the reality Every single guy who is divorced thought the same as you do. And it makes no difference if you are comfortable with the position you are in…….but KNOW what position you are in…..and that is…..powerless. You believe you are equal in rights, and privliges. But you are not…..she has power, and have none. Whether you like it or not, your continued “rights” are actually actually dependent on her continuing to feel the way she does.

            And this is the problem my friend. Men actually do sign away their rights when the marry now. But the fact that they keep doing it……well it’s like if Coke became $20 per can tomorrow, and everybody just kept buying it…..what incentive have they got to lower the price, or even not to raise it more.

            As long as men keep paying the price, the price will continue to rise. The only thing that is going to make women consider our rights, and start actually throwing feminist legislation in the bin…..is when it has made it impossible for them to get what they want from us because of it. Men can make that NOW….or they can wait until things are three times worse……but they will have to do it sooner or later. There is no point complaining about what marriages and defacto relationships have become, legally…..if you then turn around and accept that situation and marry or cohabitate anyway…..that is just telling them…….women…and the legal system….that no matter what men say…..they have not gone too far yet.

          • OldandNavy

            I absolutely agree that, in several cases, men do not receive the same representation under the law.

            You must think me stupid or blind (or willfully ignorant). Though, if I were so, why would I speak up for men’s rights in my own community and support sites and groups like AVFM? It certainly ain’t popular a lot of days.

            Just remember that a person’s frontal lobe has a lot to do with the reality they experience. My wife’s does not include anything about her husband being disposable. It’s who she is. Mine does not include any notion that I need to somehow muck up my marriage by taking an adversarial attitude towards my wife.

            I don’t assign her the “gun to the back of the head” dangers you experience so vividly because they are simply not traits she possesses.

            She shares many of my views on men’s rights but read though this place a bit and told me “I just can’t get behind a movement that is full of people that I don’t know who insist that I just HAVE to be a diabolical cunt.”

            I wonder if we could spend more time addressing legislation and attitudes and less time assuring that if the goals of the MRM are met, nothing will be any better because so much time was spent hammering in wedges that are hard to pull out.

            Mutual respect and affection are hard when you hate each other.

            Either way, why should you argue with an idiot, Stu? What do you have to gain in discourse with one of those poor, retarded bastards, even when he agrees with a lot of your argument?

    • Camran Manikfan

      Nothing but the naked truth.

    • ihateyourguts 25

      You are right on money, Stu. Women are scum, and no worth of time and money.

  • Tim Garf

    There is a civilization that was advanced enough to have cities and trade over very very long distances, it existed for over 1000 years without war. This IS! achievable. It was in a documentary, wish I could remember the name =(

    • Dagda Mór

      I believe there was some evidence to indicate that the earliest civilisations were formed because of and for the purposes of trade rather than war.

  • Daniel Qian

    This sounds like a response to a recent comment of mine. I want to make it clear that I agree with you in the sense that gratitude is not enough; I want to end male disposability, not perpetuate it. My point is that it would be practical and useful for us to change other people’s frame of mind, and hatred is incompatible with gratitude; you can’t feel both at the same time. Simple as that.

    Don’t think of an elephant. Stop thinking of elephants! You’re doing
    the not thinking of elephants all wrong!! Why are you thinking of
    elephants, when I told you not to?!

    I think it’s much more powerful to say what you want than what you
    don’t, because it gets people thinking about it. Brain space is a scarce
    resource — precious real estate — to be treasured and used carefully.

    Which means that I did it wrong above. The most effective response to
    hatred might be to promote a frame of mind that is incompatible with it
    — like gratitude. Maybe a Twitter campaign to look for one man every
    day that you see doing some dirty, dangerous and/or soul-crushing work
    that keeps the gears of our civilization spinning, and say thank you.

    It’s easy to see how #ThankAMan or something like that could be used
    snarkily by the usual suspects, but I think that the hardcore
    misandrists are actually a small minority. Even most feminists just
    don’t really know what all is done in their name. I picture the
    sarcastic uses being swamped by sincere ones.

  • crydiego

    As a man, just because there is a war doesn’t mean you have to be part of it. Don’t war. Don’t be that guy!

    • Susie Parker

      You are writing this from a prison cell for non payment of taxes, right?

      • crydiego

        Great point Susie. I was making fun of this post blaming young men for going to war,(like the, Don’t be that guy posters.) However, you nailed it, —if you are funding the wars, don’t go around lecturing the young people that fight in them!

      • ihateyourguts 25

        What’s the matter, Susie? Did this article hit little too close to home?

        • Susie Parker

          Whassa matter, gutless? I’ll happily answer your question after you have the courtesy to answer the question I asked first. Are YOU writing this from a prison cell for non payment of taxes? Do you live in a third world country that has no military sanctions or protection, or do you enjoy living in a Communist dictatorship where YOU feel loved and valued instead of a worthless “sheeple”? I have a great deal of respect for true Pacifists who put their morals where their mouth is. I’ve yet to ever meet one, but that doesn’t mean they don’t really exist.

  • Jesse James

    I am all for diplomacy first. But like I always say your diplomacy is in direct proportion to your military’s ability to prevent enemy tanks from rolling down your streets.

    Sending a diplomat to fight for you when your enemy can obliterate you on demand is not boasting a high rate of success throughout human history.

    I hate war, and what it has done to my family, and the men I have served with. Fortunately, I only had 50 cals aimed at me, I did not suffer their sting. But I understand. War is hell, make it worse for your enemies, and they will leave you alone.

    So what if Machiavelli was an extreme prick. Did not mean he was wrong because of it.

  • fathers4fairness

    Yes – War is a shitty business and it does represent a complete failure of rational, polite society.
    But a rational, polite society is the only world women know – because they have been protected and sheltered by men. The state is now taken over that role – and women now do not have to reciprocate to their husbands, fathers or sons – they just have to vote for an expanded government who pretends to look after them.

    AngryHarry has said that women could never survive in a completely male world were it not for their tits – and he is dead right. But who except Feminists seriously would want to live in a 100% Male world – think all Sparta all the time (or MGTOW).

  • PaulMurrayCbr

    “As arrows in the hand of a mighty one, So are the sons of the young men. O the happiness of the man Who hath filled his quiver with them, They are not ashamed, For they speak with enemies in the gate!”

    War has always been an institution. Even when mankind was a few hundred thousand feuding tribal dirtbags, men were disposable. Sons are just arrows to be shot at the enemy and discarded.

  • comslave

    Words will not give you peace and security unless backed by men willing to fight to give those words meaning.

  • fathers4fairness

    How we treat male armies?

    “He was one of the dozens of activists with Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA) who planted thousands of flags to honor veterans who had killed themselves.

    By noon, 1,892 American flags graced the Mall, representing the number of veterans who have taken their life this year alone since January 1st, 2014 – an average of 22 per day.”


  • http://vonmunchausen.com/ Von Munchausen

    This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read.
    You pity the military? Believe me son, nobody in the military needs your pity.
    You mentioned that you thank people for doing things out of a sense of altruism and loyalty… What do you think these men join for? There are roughly 2 million men in the military, and millions more veterans. Each one of them has different reasons.
    Your refusal to accept the growth, maturation, toughening, and general positive influence the military has on young men doesn’t change the reality.
    Men join the military to better themselves. To develop lifelong friendships, and a deep bond with other men that you will obviously never understand.
    Your pity is as irrelevant as a high paid group of bitches trying to ban the use of a word.
    One more thing: No good wars?
    -WWII stopped the NAZI quest for world domination (and Japan’s).
    -The Civil War stopped slavery (and was an attempt to get states rights back on track by the south)
    -The Revolutionary War broke our ties with a tyrannical England.
    – 6 Day war ended Egyptian aggression against Israel (for 40 years)
    I could go on. The truth of the matter is that war has been nearly continuous for as long as civilization has existed. Often beginning at the drop of a hat, and the only thing standing between weak minded fools like you and grisly death has often been the same soldiers that you denigrate. Your idealistic bullshit where all war is bad is simple minded and ignores reality and millennia of history.
    Yes, most wars are about money, yes men die. But imagining a beautiful world where nobody ever fights doesn’t turn it into reality.
    No military man that I know would ever willingly accept your notion that they are victims.
    Your comparison with slaves and rape victims is also nonsense.
    It is the same intentionally inflammatory rhetoric used by feminists to deflect from reality.
    Enjoy your weak minded ideals.

    • http://funkymunkyluvn.wordpress.com/ Jason Gregory

      All war is anti-male because all war is violence against men.

      • http://vonmunchausen.com/ Von Munchausen

        Violence against men by other men is a reality of the human condition.
        That doesn’t make soldiers victims.
        Violence is not anti-male. It is a part of being male.

        • http://funkymunkyluvn.wordpress.com/ Jason Gregory

          Ah…my misunderstanding.

          All war is pro-male because all war is violence against men.

          • http://vonmunchausen.com/ Von Munchausen

            At no point did I condone violence. Although reading that kind of thing into the stuff I wrote reminds me of how women think. War and violence should be avoided if at all possible.
            I merely accept the FACT that violence exists, and prefer to prepare for it properly.
            It seems wiser than “wishing really hard” that is would go away.

          • http://funkymunkyluvn.wordpress.com/ Jason Gregory

            You’re the one who “reminds me of how women think,” saying that men (soldiers) aren’t victims of war.

          • http://vonmunchausen.com/ Von Munchausen

            Wait.. insisting that I and my military brothers are not victims is “thinking like a woman?
            Did I step through some looking glass into opposite world?
            Victimization is the hallmark of feminism and apparently the author of the above article.
            I claim the exact opposite of being a victim, and I know my fellow veterans would agree.

          • http://funkymunkyluvn.wordpress.com/ Jason Gregory

            As such, you must agree, in your thinking, with Clinton when she talks about women being the primary victims of war…because, according to you, men (soldiers) are not victims of war. Congrats! You are thinking like a feminist woman. :-)

          • http://vonmunchausen.com/ Von Munchausen

            Dude, Every single person in the American military is there voluntarily.
            Accepting any type of victim status due to my own choices would be thinking like a feminist woman.
            I accept the risks that my choices entail.

          • http://vonmunchausen.com/ Von Munchausen

            I might have missed it before, but are you being facetious here?

          • http://funkymunkyluvn.wordpress.com/ Jason Gregory

            “WAR is a racket. It always has been.

            It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.” –Smedley Butler
            ( http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html )

            War has always been about economic stratification and profit. It is business–the business of creating, reinforcing, and maintaining dominance hierarchies of wealth and power–the flipside of hypergamy.

            When you defend such dominance hierarchies as “voluntary,” you simultaneously defend hypergamy. These dominance hierarchies and hypergamy are simply different sides of the same coin.

            There is no way to get rid of one without simultaneously getting rid of the other. (It’s like trying to get rid of one side to a coin and not the other.) If your duty as a soldier is to defend these dominance hierarchies, then your simultaneous duty is a defence of the “gold diggin’ whore.”

            As such, your duty as a soldier is to do violence against other men for the sake of a few men who benefit from the profits of your violence…for the sake of all women who prefer/demand men with economic status.

          • Sadman365

            Thank you, friend. Only if more men were like you …Unfortunately, most men are like the sheep you’ve been talking to (Von). Stupid, gullible, self-loathing sheep who think very little of themselves and always willing to be disposable cannon fodder (for their lying masters) and they do it all for a few meaningless titles (heroes, brave…) or a ribbon !!!! Ah…so much for the “intelligent race”.

          • OldandNavy

            Haha. I hate getting awards. It means I have to rearrange my rack and update all of my uniforms. It’s a pain in the ass.

          • Sadman365

            Jason, you’d be better off reasoning with a donkey than with this ass. Can’t you see how stupid he is? No point really arguing with such ignorant sheep.

          • http://ChristophDollis.com/3AF Christoph Dollis

            You’re not victims—the question is whether you are perpetrators.

        • 2cyar

          “Violence is not anti-male. It is a part of being male.”
          Wow…Stereotype much? You’d make a great feminist.

        • OldandNavy

          It’s part of being human.I’d be the first to smile about being out of a career because humans suddenly didn’t want to kill each other or take what others have.

          • http://vonmunchausen.com/ Von Munchausen

            Wouldn’t it just be wonderful if all 7 billion people on this planet suddenly decided that there would never be another fight? No wars, no simple assaults… Nothing?
            Until such a landmark treaty is signed by every soul on this planet.
            In the meantime I will continue contributing to the philosophy:
            Si vis pacem, para bellum

          • Sadman365

            Ha ha ha. It’s not that hard. All it takes is for gullible sheeple like you to start saying NO to their leaders when they’re told to pick up a gun and go kill other men under FALSE PRETEXT or for stupid meaningless titles like (heroes, brave men….). Remember, almost non of the 7 billion people on this miserable planet would EVER want to go and start wars by themselves. It’s always those criminals in charge who start wars and stir up all the hatred and fear mongering and whip their sheeple into frenzies to get them (men) to sacrifice themselves and go into other countries to kill other men….It’s ALWAYS been this way. There’s NO just war, EVER. Also remember, you would NOT have to defend yourself IF I was decent enough a person not to attack you. How do I become a decent person – I don’t attack you because some mother fucking lying greedy crazy son of a bitch tells me to. And even if he tells me to, I have a choice to say NO. As simple as that.

          • http://vonmunchausen.com/ Von Munchausen

            So when the “criminals in charge” tell their sheep to come and kill you. The answer is to expose your heart for the knife?
            Who enforces this lovely peace you envision, where everyone “just says no to killing someone?”
            Ignoring history and human nature is the height of folly. Regardless of the nature of war, it is and always has been reality. Again: Si vis pacem, para bellum
            Oh and keep trying with your meaningless insults… They are entertaining.

          • Sadman365

            Obviously your brain has a lot of dead cells (just like the majority of the sheeple). You can’t get the point, can you? You’d rather stick to what your brain has been stuffed with than to think logically. It’s useless and futile to try and reason with you and your likes but all I can say if we suddenly started drafting women and forcing them to fight in wars -this was a proposition by some senator or congressman but I can’t remember his name- I GUARANTEE you the sheeple all over the world would say no to wars and we would have no more wars. But since we’ve gotten so used to always throwing men into the grinders we’ve become so desensitized to their needless deaths and suffering. At least if we’re going to force men to fight we should also force the fucking women to fight too. We can’t just force the men. But I’m sure for manginas like you you would be against that too.

          • http://funkymunkyluvn.wordpress.com/ Jason Gregory

            Stanhope has a pretty good bit about this. I’ll paraphrase him: “So long as dudes who wanna kill other dudes are in the military killing other dudes who wanna kill other dudes, then all the right people are getting killed, freeing up all the best parking spaces.”

          • Sadman365

            I wish it were like that. I’d have no problem. Unfrotunately, most of the dudes who are sent to kill and get killed are forced to do it. Most of the countries have compulsory military service (conscription) that only applies to men and those men are forced to fight….
            I am all for those who are stupid enough to want to fight -on both sides- to wipe each other out and go to hell, along with their leaders too. I wish it were like that. But you know it isn’t.

        • Sadman365

          “Violence against men by other men is a reality of the human condition.
          That doesn’t make soldiers victims”. !!! Man! Only when I think people can’t get any dumber, then I see this.
          So if I shove my ass up your stupid ass that wouldn’t be considered violence then, would it be? jackass. That’s just a ” reality of human condition”. Right. So why even bother with laws and penal codes that deal with this kind of violence? Let’s just do away with them and accept all violence by male against male as something natural! But what about female on female violence? Oh, did you stupid mother fucking sheep know that such violence exist, too? Or maybe you’re too fucking dumb to think.
          So, what about f on f violence? How is any different than m on m?
          “that doesn’t make soldiers victims” !! Really? You fucking dumb bastard. Millions and millions of men have been thrown into wars -THEY DIDN’T WANT TO FIGHT IN- because they were FORCED under the gun, and you piece of ignorant pathetic shit say soldiers aren’t victims? Ever read about the two British BOYS (one was only 14) who were shot outside their homes because they didn’t join the war? So those aren’t victims in your warped fucked in the head mind. Are they?
          Do us a favor and go kill yourself, fucker. I spit on you and every one like you. BTW, what the fuck are you doing here? You need to go join some feminazi group or something.

          • http://funkymunkyluvn.wordpress.com/ Jason Gregory

            I totally understand where you are coming from, Sadman365, and you’ve rightly pointed out that these men are like “brainwashed sheep.” You’ve made clear your contempt for these men, but your contempt may be better directed at the culture that creates them, rather than the actual men who are victims of it.

            “We live in a culture where violence against men is prevalent, normalized, excused, and celebrated by the media and in popular culture.” (http://funkymunkyluvn.wordpress.com/2014/02/14/the-male-body-and-the-masculinity-police-part-ii/)

            All men grew up on a steady diet of cultural misandry. All men share these experiences. Some men believe, as a result, that “real men” are better men if they are willing to kill other men in the name of patriotism, bravery, honor, and etc. Some men believe that “real men” are better men if they have ribbons and medals for killing other men. These beliefs are partly the result of cultural misandry–something that all men experience.

            When you tell a man to “go kill yourself, fucker” because he believes his ribbons and medals make him a better man, consider the fact that you’re telling him the same thing that our culture has been telling him and all men. It’s what soldiers are told to do–go kill yourself and other men, fucker.

            Care should be taken so that we don’t become the monsters we fight. We’re not going to dismantle systemic cultural misandry by perpetuating it. Compassion for these men does not entail an endorsement of their suicide. In fact, that would be an endorsement of the monster that we fight.

          • Sadman365

            Jason, I believe sometimes you have to be blunt and unapologetic when addressing such group of sheeple. It’s proven that “shock” can work in knocking some sense into their useless non-functional brains. But here’s what I believe : as “intelligent” beings -as we always claim to be- I don’t think any amount of societal brainwashing or conditioning should make us dumb and blind to what is RIGHT and what is WRONG. If we were the “intelligent” beings that are capable of logical thought and capable of discerning GOOD from EVIL then we (all of us) should be able to choose the GOOD and RIGHT and NOT just blindly follow like stupid sheep and parrots what our society/customs/leaders…tell us. If we don’t, then we’re worthless beings that are not different than animals. Like one guy once said, a human who cannot think doesn’t deserve the air he breathes, and I add he/she doesn’t deserve any respect and I certainly wouldn’t show any respect towards them.
            Jason, I’m not an angel from outer space or something. I’m a human being…What I want to say is I too am exposed to the same bullshit and conditioning/brainwashing that all the sheeple are exposed to BUT I chose to USE my brain and conscience and common sense…and say NO and FUCK YOU to all that bullshit. No amount of brainwashing and societal conditioning is going to make me a blind sheep that just follows, EVER. God didn’t talk to me or send me an angel to show me the truth. No. I already have what should be the ONLY thing I need to see the truth for what it is and also see the lies -my BRAIN.
            We cannot condone the violence/crimes committed by criminals because most of those criminals come from abusive families with a history of violence. Can we? You know it’s proven most of those criminals have been abused as children but still the law doesn’t excuse them. What I’m saying is just because you’re raised among sheep you -I don’t mean you- shouldn’t become a sheep too. A lot of men were once feminazi supporters, manginas and white knights but once they started using their rusty brains the started to realize they’ve been duped…and are no longer sheep.

          • http://vonmunchausen.com/ Von Munchausen

            Your emotional response reminds me of feminists who scream about fat acceptance and how bad slut shaming is. Fat, Ugly women bitching that the world isn’t more accepting of their horrid appearance or decision making paradigm.
            I recognize that some men will never have the stones to join the military, but most men at least have the decency to respect my choices (whether they agree or not).
            The truth is, violence is a reality of life. Your idealistic, insult laden, comment does nothing to change that. Screaming about historical examples of people doing terrible things also changes nothing about reality.
            My choice was made to better myself, and add to something larger than me.
            Your insults tell me much more about you than me.
            Remember, such bitterness and anger is like trying to kill someone else by swallowing the poison yourself.

    • Sadman365

      Von, typical dumb sheep. Aren’t you? I ask you the same question, you stupid dumb slave. You always take one part of the equation but not the whole equation. Instead of giving fighting the Nazis as a good example of a good war, why not you stupid mother fucking sheep ask WHY DIDN’T THE GERMAN SOLDIERS REFUSE TO SERVE HITLER AND MARCH TO THEIR DEATHS??? After all, if they said NO (to killing and dying) just because their crazy leader told them to, the Allies (soldiers) would NOT have had to fight them. NO? But again, obviously you’re a misguided brainwashed SHEEP that’s unable to think logically and instead just regurgitate garbage he’s been fed.
      REMEMBER, if I say no to invading someone else’s land (always under false pretenses and lies), there would be no need for others to sacrifice themselves to try and stop me… I guess that’s too hard for you to understand.

  • Mike Hunt

    I appreciate that A Voice for Men tries to be politically inclusive. That is a good thing, generally.

    But this is without a doubt the single most ridiculously stupid article ever to grace the pages of this website.

    • Magnus

      Care to elaborate?

      • Mike Hunt

        No, not really.

        • ihateyourguts 25

          The only truly bad people in any war are the fat, lazy, elitistic psychopaths sitting in Wall St. and London Financial District.

  • http://funkymunkyluvn.wordpress.com/ Jason Gregory

    “All war is anti-male because all war is violence against men.”

    Excellent article! I like to see this stuff here because it challenges men to think about the depths of cultural misandry and shows the degree that some men will go to defend their “freedom” to perpetuate violence against men. It shows the depths to which men will go to defend their own servitude to their disposability. Men will defend to the death their role as an object-of-utility for a woman, for women, and for society in-general.

    Men who hate this article–I suspect they actually hate men and themselves, for they go to great lengths to defend the “nobility” of killing other men and subjecting their own body to the likely possibility of being killed by other men. The male body is the most culturally acceptable locus of violence…and this fact remains because men ensure it.

    • Sadman365

      Again, THANK YOU, my friend. I’m clipping this and putting it in favorites. No. I’m going to print it out and put it on a wall.
      And yeah. Those here who are claiming to be for men’s rights or anti-feminism and then support wars or attack men who oppose the military (WARS) are a bunch of misguided fucks who don’t seem to know their heads from their asses. To me, they belong with the feminists- in hell.

      • ihateyourguts 25

        I couldn’t have said it better.

  • 2cyar

    I kind of compare it to an analogy of a guy who knows his married friend’s wife is cheating on him. Now does he tell him or not? Maybe his friend has a couple of kids, and his wife puts on a good act, and they all look real nice together as a family. Does this guy really want to take that away from his friend? Sure, it’s all just an illusion, but unless he is the one actually fucking his friend’s wife himself, the decision might still be pretty hard for some people. The author of this article decided to tell him the truth and let his friend decide for himself.

    Something to think about.

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_StCzStBy0?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360

    • Susie Parker

      Nobody fucks their Pacifist friend’s wife. Nobody fucks with you when you’re a pacifist because Pacifists are smart, kind, helpful, altruistic, sleep well at night and always have better things to do. Chicks dig pacifists. Pacifists fuck your wives when you’re deployed because you are stupid and deserve it. Stop joining the military, stop paying taxes that pay for supporting baby killers and rapists. Be brave enough to be passive.

      • Guest

        Really? NAPALT? Since we’re all about telling The Truth about , I say let’s roll out a little honesty about those “True Pacifists” as well.

      • Susie Parker

        “James Nunya Susie Parker • 2 hours ago “What? Those actions aren’t very pacifistic if you ask me. ”

        Really? NAPALT?

        Since we’re all about exposing The Truth of those nefariously deluded evil doers joining the military, I say we roll out a little truth about I-Spit-On-Your-Grave pacifists while we’re at it.

        ” A kind/altruistic person doesn’t mess around with married people.”

        Unless he’s far off, deployed to a war zone and she’s lonely and in need of some “kindness”.

        “A true pacifist doesn’t put themselves in a situation that could cause violence.”

        I’m too noble to “cause violence” but not too noble to refuse to pay taxes for others to “cause violence” that benefits me.

      • Sadman365

        Thank you, Susie. Tell the mother fucking sheep. Tell them. What the fuck is wrong with these dumb fucks? I can never understand human stupidity. These brainless slaves and sheep sacrifice life and limbs for LIES, LIES and more LIES by their leaders. Those of them who make it back in one piece -although always missing their sanity- then get FUCKED by the leader (the state/country) and are thrown on the streets as a thank your for being stupid and dumb to serve. Of course, their wives also give them the middle finger. Many of them have come back to find their wives are no more. They’ve left them for someone else….

        • Susie Parker

          I was being sarcastic. I have served in the military, my husband is a combat vet, drafted against his will during Vietnam. I have no respect for “pacifists” who support war by paying taxes and enjoy the benefit of living in a country that another man defends. If you are in prison for refusing to pay taxes to support your pacifism, or you live in a third world country that does not benefit from war, then I respect your pacifism. You know and I know you aren’t that kind of pacifist. I served during a time when GIs were literally being spat on – and the majority still served, and served proudly – without your thanks. They don’t want or need your thanks, so don’t be jealous of them because others offer it. It’s unbecoming.

      • Bewildered

        LMFAO! I see what you did there !

  • http://ChristophDollis.com/3AF Christoph Dollis

    I don’t like equating soldiers with slaves nor rape victims:

    1. Slaves and rape victims aren’t volunteers.

    2. Slaves and rape victims do not get paid.

    3. Slaves and rape victims do not kill people (not all of whom are combatants by any means).

    • Susie Parker

      Actually a great deal of rape victims and/or those who speak for rape victims fully support the proxy violence, proxy rape and full on enslavement of innocent men to pay for the crime “men” commit.

      I’ve come to fully detest these “victims” who, wrapped in the mantle of victimhood, support the destruction of Due Process and Constitutional protections.

      • Sagamanus

        Holy Jesus to god do you sound like a mindless marching moron. Are you a real person and not a bot?

        • Susie Parker

          Stop victimizing me! You are giving me PTSD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m a WOMAN! Dare not to disagree with ME!

    • Magnus

      Not every soldier had a choice.
      Today in the USA, and most NATO countries it is volunteered work to go abroad and fight.
      But a lot of countries still have Conscription, meaning unless you are a pacifist you are not allowed to say no.

      And the USA have a history of a draft, which DID send people to a foreign country to die.

  • Susie Parker

    As a Vietnam era veteran myself, it is very bitter sweet to see the out pouring of appreciation and thanks heaped on my currently active duty Marine son-in-law. Maybe after witnessing first hand the ugly contempt and blaming of those young men DRAFTED and FORCED into military conscription in my own era, something about it just doesn’t seem quite right to me, either.

    I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again – I believe 98% of those expressing their “thanks” are, in fact, saying “Thank you for volunteering so my own precious ass doesn’t get forced into your situation”. ” Thank you for putting your own body, mental health and family ties on the line so my sweet ass can continue to enjoy being a “pacifist” at your expense”.

    Only women and dishonest men enjoy the claim of being a “pacifist”. Unless you are writing this from a prison cell because you refused to be “talked into” paying taxes to support those sacrificing themselves physically on your behalf, all I can say is keep your hypocrisy to yourself. You’re fooling no one but yourself.

    “Talked into going to war” my ass.

    Men have been “talked into going to war” by force or at gunpoint, since the beginning of time.

    You don’t have the decency to even say “Thank you” to those voluntarily serving in your stead so you can sit on your ass writing willfully ignorant articles, please, allow me to do it for you.

    I guess the “acts of kindness” by Reserve and active duty military personnel ordered to clean up after floods, hurricanes and tornadoes just simply don’t count? Obviously the civilian types who line up to sell those servicemen coffee and sandwiches while they’re sandbagging, digging out, dodging rats and snakes and rescuing the stranded speaks volumes of “appreciation”.


    I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
    The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
    The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
    I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:
    O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”;
    But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play,
    The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
    O it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play.

    I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
    They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn’t none for me;
    They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
    But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!
    For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, wait outside”;
    But it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide,
    The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
    O it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide.

    Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
    Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
    An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
    Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
    Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul?”
    But it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll.

    We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
    But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
    An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
    Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
    While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind”,
    But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind,
    There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
    O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

    You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
    We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
    Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
    The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
    For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
    But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
    An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
    An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool — you bet that Tommy sees!

    Rudyard Kipling

    • OldandNavy

      Heh. I’m kindly stationed in a community that is over 80% current or prior military…..and everyone in town, likes the navy or not, is keenly aware of where pretty much all of the economy comes from.

      If the military – and their paychecks – rolled out today, the entire northern half of this island would look like Detroit tomorrow.

      We don’t get protests much around here. It’s relaxing. Well, there are those dingle berries who buy an expensive house next to an approach training airfield and then complain about the jet noise, but they are consummate rewards and no one gives them very much heed.

  • Magnus

    I see a lot of angry “what do you know” and “Some wars are needed” posts here in the comments.
    And I respect people that are willing to put on a uniform and die in a far away country fighting a war my politicians started. I respect their guts, and their sense of duty. I respect their skills and loyalty.
    But what I don’t respect is when old men and women decide to send these young men to die. Old men that are past their fighting age, and women that was never asked to fight in the first place.

    And this is why I would agree that “I’m sorry” is a good term to say to a soldier.
    “I am sorry, I as a voting citizen made you go through hell”

    It’s in my mind not an apology of pitty, but an acknowledgement that I as a citizen live in a country that asked the soldier to go to war.

    And this becomes a gender issue as long as countries around the world demand that it is the men that do the fighting. (I won’t get into a debate of the capabilities of women soldiers here, because when the war comes I am sure we can find a place for them too)
    As long as men are required to sign up for the draft, participate in Conscription or face jailtime and other sanctions if they don’t, then this is a men’s rights issue.

    I have debated back and forth with myself and others on how much I think it’s okay to “glorify the soldier”, and as I said I still respect anyone who willingly put on the uniform… but should we respect our self when we send them to fight a war?

    • OldandNavy

      Health view point…and I don’t really think that any sane person likes wars. I don’t. Been in one. Sucks.

      I’m ready to go again, as needed – I just don’t long for it.

  • Sadman365

    James, fuck you and fuck all of the military men in your family, and fuck every stupid son of a bitch who supports the military and any war. Remember mother fucker, if it weren’t for sheep like you who just follow, there would be no wars. If the German soldier said no to Hitler, Hitler would NOT have been able to invade. But because he (Hitler or any other leader) knew it was easy to manipulate the sheep LIKE YOU with a few stupid words (homeland protectors, brave, heroes…) and because those soldiers were as good as a bunch of sheep being taken to the slaughter house, he (Hitler and every other single mother fucking war mongering leader in the world) could start wars and invade other countries. Remember you stupid fucking sheep, if the Russian soldiers NOW (in the current conflict in the Ukraine said to the criminal war monger Putin NO, I’m not going to invade, THERE WOULD BE NO INVASION AND NO WAR. But again, thanks to sheep like you who always glorify wars as something patriotic and good millions of men will continue to die NEEDLESSLY because their sick leaders’ greed (to take over someone else’s land).
    I hated Hitler but he said it well “Lucky for the leader men don’t think…”, meaning they’re always willing to sacrifice themselves for whatever stupid reason the leader gives them. Also, like the guy mentioned here, Napoleon also said “a soldier will fight long and hard for a colored ribbon”. That just sums it all up. Take your patriotism and SHOVE it up your stupid disposable ass, SHEEP.

    • Susie Parker

      Do you really think James doesn’t see your little rant for what it is? Like you aren’t a disposable sheep yourself?

      • ihateyourguts 25

        I think the only sheeple here is you. Well, you and that Navy guy.

        • Susie Parker

          You didn’t answer the question, gutless. Aren’t YOU just a disposable sheep yourself? Are YOU writing this from a prison cell or a third world country with no military sanctions or protections, refusing to pay your own hard earned wages in support of those other men who go to war so you don’t have to? Please explain how you reconcile your own sheepful compliance supporting and enjoying the benefits of war while at the same time claiming moral superiority – as though your hands are clean.

    • OldandNavy

      Lol. Baaaaaaaaaaaah.

      • ihateyourguts 25

        You are fucking delirious. Do you actually believe that the Government gives a rat’s ass about you? IT DOESN’T. Not a single Government in the entire world gives a shit about soldiers and veterans, because they consider you as disposable garbage.

        And a guy who is willing to get killed on the behalf of women and the elite do not deserve pity, as this article claims, but the deepest contempt possible.

        I would rather have the women go to military and get killed on men’s behalf, because they owe us far more than we owe to them.

        • OldandNavy

          That was one long breath and a forceful…aww fuck it. Bullshit.

          I could give my own rat’s ass what value the government places on me and blah blah blah blah.

          I do what I do because I chose to do it. Protecting me some wiminz wasn’t even a thing in the recruiters office.

          Do continue, though, manufacturing comfortable generalisations (from a safe distance and warm snuggly ignorance, no less) about who we are, what we do and why we do it.

          You got the right. Isn’t very endearing but then I don’t think endearing was what you were going for there, chief.

          Either way. Your head really is no more or less hard than mine on this subject, to be honest. We are both pushing the merry go round along…..and I do so bore.

        • Susie Parker

          Like they give a shit about you? Not a single Government in the entire world gives a shit about you because they consider you as disposable garbage.

    • ihateyourguts 25

      Well put. Soldiers are brainwashed sheeple, and if they had as much guts as they think they have and brag about, they would say “FUCK YOU!” to their so-called “superiors”. But that won’t happen, because only mentally retarded would even consider joining military.

      • Bewildered

        Aren’t you being too idealistic ? Dream as much as you want about your “heaven of freedom” but don’t forget we live on planet earth populated by imperfect people.
        There’s always a chance that a war might be forced on you,what then?

      • Susie Parker

        If pacifists had as much moral superiority as they brag about, they would say “FUCK YOU!” to their so-called war mongering government and NOT SUPPORT WAR WITH THEIR PARTICIPATION IN CONTRIBUTING MONEY TO PAY FOR WAR.

      • Sadman365

        YUP. They think they have the guts to fight and kill other INNOCENT men and boys MOSTLY FOR NO REASON other than they’ve been told to (by their superiors), but they don’t have the guts to say no to committing such evil acts. What kills me is that they don’t seem to see what’s wrong with this. I understand it when people say well, we need to defend our country -although I’m still against FORCING men and ONLY men but not women to do it- but I’m talking about the aggressors. Why can’t those soldiers say NO? How is invading another country a “patriotic” thing or considered as “defending your homeland” …??
        Again, all I can say about people’s logic is quote Einstein’s “only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity….”.

  • http://ludovicurbain.blogspot.be/ Ludovic Urbain

    It’s not like rape.

    It’s much worse.

    It’s not like forcing someone to commit rape.

    It’s much worse.

    It’s forcing someone to commit murder.

    It’s important to not trivialize the horror of being manipulated in doing something horrible.

    Not only is murder much much much much much worse than rape, it’s also much worse to be forced to harm, rather than just be harmed – at least for me, that may be because I want to be able to look myself in the mirror.

  • Copyleft

    This was a good article that raises an important point about how society uses and discards men. We then dress up their disposal as something “noble and heroic,” when really it’s not much different from trying to sell us on the notion of endless servitude–a type that sometimes even results in death.

    “You’re doing it for freedom!” “Everyone will be grateful to you!” “You’re defending our country!” All these are just reassuring lies we tell recruits in order to get them to (sometimes literally) sign away their lives.

    When I see veterans and wounded soldiers, I don’t think “hero.” I think “victim.” I feel pity and compassion for them.. but I don’t admire them or encourage others to volunteer for the same experience. You may have bought into the sales pitch and convinced yourself that what you were doing was noble and heroic… but being gullible isn’t admirable either.

    • OldandNavy

      Actually, I was told that I would be rendering necessary service for fair compensation and full ride college support. Oops, that matches my contract.

      You have a point that the service isn’t for everyone and I certainly don’t encourage just any ol’ teenager to hook up with uncle Sam.

      You don’t even know what’s going on, man. True, a lot of folks get disillusioned with the service but that doesn’t stop them from taking the paycheck and the bachelor’s degree while complaining about all that cake they are eating.

      Yeah, there are a lot of guys and gals with grievous battlefield injuries (physical and mental) but then, only a true moron would join up without thinking about that – and they did sign up, pen in their very own hand.

      Those who have gone ahead of me, those drafted and chewed against their beliefs, I can feel for. But No pity here for anyone who enters a military (currently a 100% VOLUNTEER force) then has buyers regret about military consequences.

  • Claymore

    For an article that says so much it really lacks any substance whatsoever. Complete imbecilic drivel borne out of a large ignorance of history and the human condition. There is a reason that it is so easy to claim yourself as a pacifist in the western world. None of that reason has anything to do with pacifism though.

    I will say that for pacifists you guys seem to sing a very hateful tune towards your fellow men, and forefathers who were definitely not duped, but fought hard and well for everything that you hold dear today.

    As for the author of this article, he seems to speak very much as an expert of how war ‘leaves them changed’ considering his likely amount of experience with those people. I can count on one hand how my tour changed me negatively as a man, however the positive changes were immense.

    I will also add that OldandNavy did an excellent job elaborating why veterans don’t need to be thanked, but it has nothing to do with anything that article states.

  • Sadman365

    I would NEVER say thank you to a soldier who voluntarily and blindly follows orders to commit atrocities against other men and boys because he’s told to. But I DO feel sorry and feel deep sadness for all those men and boys (child soldiers) who were DRAGGED from their beds and FORCED UNDER THE GUN and SHAMED into fighting. They’re (on both sides) INNOCENT VICTIMS. They ARE the epitome of violence against men. I hope all those MURDEROUS criminals (leaders) who force(d) those men and boys to fight rot in hell, but even that isn’t good enough a punishment for destroying the lives of countless millions of men.