Real Men

The failed manhood of white knights

I saw a cartoon today. I present it here as the image for this article for your consideration. As you can see, it isn’t very funny, and it isn’t intended to be. Even less funny was the numbers of likes and shares it got from Facebookers. And when you click through and read some of the comments, mostly by women, it gets decidedly unfunny.

Read at your own risk. The promotion of violence is constant, and there are some comments even more alarming. The worst thing about it is that this is not a feminist thread or an MRA thread. It is just the general public; average people, whatever that is these days.

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The blue pill appeal of this kind of White Knightery, the kind you see portrayed above in the form of a cartoon thug about to deliver some “righteous payback,” is understandable. For most women these men are service machines prepared to make assaults on their behalf; willing to dispense, and absorb violence, enthusiastically, whenever a woman, any woman, advises them there is a need.

To these women, this is one of the many things that make those men real men. Read the comments on Facebook. And note that mixed in with cheering for violent acts you see the scraps of puffery offered to the male bodyguards there. These are men who will gladly stomp mud holes in their brothers if it will make a woman smile or give an approving nod; if, as they pine for in their fantasies, it will dry a single feminine tear.

Per the cartoon, real men are prepared to attack other men and beat them savagely without a second thought. All you have to do is point at their victim and say, “He hit a woman.”

You can grab your popcorn at that moment folks, because it is ON right then and there. You don’t know who it is going to be, but one of the guys, or even both of them, are about to bleed.

Remember, real men attack and bludgeon complete strangers because a woman makes an accusation. Real men will assault strangers on behalf of other strangers as long as the stranger they are being violent for has a vagina.  Consider the story of Renada Williams, who told two men that her boyfriend had raped her, so they tied him up, then beat, tortured and raped him for almost 24 hours. She was later proven to have lied.

This is not the only time this has happened. Women were singing “My Boyfriend’s Back,” long before the song was written. In fact, men wrote that song. Women just mouth the lyrics, but I will get to that.

Reacting to illegal violence, or the allegation of illegal violence, with even more illegal violence may moisten a few vaginas, but it does not seem likely to solve the fundamental problem. Clearly we need a new paradigm about sex and violence, one that puts the onus on women to take care of themselves without all those pesky, domineering men (who are just the ones they need for violence) doing it for them.

What I have done, as a service to the entirety of humanity, and all womanhood in particular, is to dismount my white horse and take an objective look at women getting hit. Doing this has enabled me to not only discern the two different types of women who get hit, but also prescribes a course of action for each type of woman. It will significantly reduce their chances of ever getting hit again. How’s that for a real man?

OK, let’s get started. Meet Female Violence Victim Number One, the true victim. This is the woman who was minding her own business, running an orphanage or serving lunch at a kitchen for the homeless, or researching a cure for scabies, and some guy comes out of nowhere and smacks her across the face for no apparent reason.

It doesn’t matter if the attacker was a stranger or someone who knew her, the attack was totally unprovoked and senseless. These women are a distinct minority, but we have them covered.

The answer for them is twofold. One, call the cops. If there is as much as a blemish on their face, or even if there isn’t, he will be arrested. Once he is in stir, she can get to the second part of the solution. She can go about shopping for all kinds of technology that will make his, or anyone else’s, next attempt to assault her a very unpleasant experience. They range from pepper spays, to stun guns to nice little Glock 9 mm’s with pink ammo clips, at least if they live somewhere that allows handguns. They even sell this stuff to women and provide classes on how to use them without men helping.

And if she messed up and shot the wrong guy, don’t worry. The courts will understand that she felt threatened and had no choice.

So, you see, for female victim number one there is no need to wait for some guy (at least one without a badge) to go skin his knuckles or get the crap beat out of himself tying to extract revenge on an attacker. She can do it herself. Remember ladies: You don’t need a man, right?

Right?

Next, we have the average domestic violence victim. According to the research we have, this woman, more likely than not, is not exactly like the true victim. She is actually a woman who hit first, at least according to the Centers for Disease Control, and ended up getting a bigger helping of the same thing she was dishing out.

This woman has a couple of options that don’t involve using the flesh and blood solution of a convenient male bodyguard. One, she can avail herself of the afore-mentioned self-defense aids recommended to true victims. This way she can improve on her abusive ways and simultaneously ensure that whoever she is abusing won’t be stupid enough to defend themselves attack her again. And yes, in case you are wondering, the cops will also side with her when called. It’s a win-win for her. Ask Chris Brown or about a million other guys.

I strongly recommend this option as the go-to. The other option is less attractive. She can get used to getting her ass kicked. Funny thing about punching men. If you hit them enough times most of them, the ones that aren’t real men, will forget you are a woman and tag you a good one.

These women and their male enablers actually think that the man she is punching is too depraved and sick to understand that she is the real victim. Her slapping, punching, kicking and spitting on him is viewed as evidence that he is the perpetrator.

This is where things get tricky, because this is where the real men really want to step in and act out violently on behalf of the woman. In fact, being so well indoctrinated into their positions as convenient fodder, their very identities hinge on beating up that guy that she tried to beat up, but couldn’t.

They will ignore his pleas that he was defending himself with the standard, pre-assault scream of indignation, “I don’t care if she hit you. You never hit a woman!”

Here is an example of what I am talking about. Note the one sorry bastard of a man in that video. He hit a woman. He was dead wrong and deserved a good thumping. End of story, right? That is right for the good men in this video; the thirty or so of them that ganged up on the guy and beat him for returning a completely unjustifiable attack from a woman. The good men, the real men, taught him, didn’t they?

This is what needs to change. We can only do that by promoting a culture where women have both agency and power, and of course they cannot have either if they are treated like children who cannot defend themselves, or if they are allowed to leech protection and other services they should be providing for themselves.

On a more personal note, I have to admit to some pretty intense emotional reaction to some of this material. I am angered beyond words by the story of Renada Williams, and by the man who was assaulted, defended himself and was then assaulted again by a mob for daring to fight back against a woman. The video doesn’t tell us what happened to him after they took him off camera.

I am even angered, though less so, by that cartoon and the scores of hateful, violence glorifying comments from women that followed it. But at least I understand that part.

We have not only taught women that exploiting men’s physical capacity for violence is acceptable, we have all but insisted that they feel entitled to that kind of power; that they just consider protection and provision from men something owed to them.  Obviously they need to get off that boat, but I don’t blame them for being there in the first place, not with legions of white knights begging them to do it, lining up to infinity to be the next guy to slay their dragons.

I don’t know that I could resist that kind of temptation.

No, I am not angry at them. My real anger is saved for the phony, sanctimonious White Knight pricks who don’t know the difference between what they see in the mirror and Dudley Dooright. It is not that they want to do right, they want to do women.

Like chameleons, which I note is a lizard, these men are adept at blending in. The only difference is that the ambience they mimic is their perception of whatever it is women want to hear.

They have little to no concept of truth, or it’s value, or of justice, or even of human decency if it runs afoul of what they think women want to see in them. In other words, all the normal values of honesty and integrity that we generally tend to instill in men are precisely where this brand of man fails, and fails completely.

The white knight wraps all of his obsequious agreement with The Collective Woman in a shroud of “social enlightenment,” or just as bad, “traditional values.” Whether he is a male feminist or a mindless tradcon, he will tell you he does not argue with women because he values them so and appreciates their wisdom. The truth is that he does not argue with them because the idea of their rejection scares the living shit out of him. He lacks the skills or courage to argue with a woman at all.

The fact is that he does not have a woman’s excuse. As a man, he has been exposed his entire life to the expectations of personal accountability, reason and justness. He abandons all of that to act as a thug, either intellectually or physically, in hopes of female approval. Even if he knows what he is doing is wrong, he lacks the spine to do anything about it.

To him, the disapproval of a woman, and even worse the disapproval of women collectively, is more emotional upheaval than he has the courage or skills to manage. He knows that by most of the standards for men in this culture, he has failed. Undaunted, he uses the pats on the head of approval he gets from women who generally hate men as evidence that he is at least the kind of man which women who hate men will approve. It is all he has.

You can see many of them out there now, writing blogs that all boil down to one simple thing: an insecure boy repeating over and over again, “Look at me! Look at me! I am a good man!”

“I will say whatever you want to hear.”

“I only exist when you look at me.”

It’s David Futrelle. It’s a lot of other losers just like him over on Facebook, and everywhere else you turn. It’s all these good, good, real men.

Ok, so maybe I don’t hate these guys. Maybe they are too pathetic to hate. But I don’t have to look any further than the story of Renada Williams, or indeed the acts of the SPLC, to know just what they are capable of.

About Paul Elam

Paul Elam is the founder and publisher of A Voice for Men, the founder of A Voice for Men Radio, the AVfM YouTube Channel, and appears weekly on AVFM Intelligence Report, Going Mental with Dr. Tara Palmatier and weekly on MANstream Media with Warren Farrell and Tom Golden.

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  • Not buying it

    Thank you Paul, for explaining men’s realities so eloquently in this article & many others in the past Sir, I wonder if any of these Cowards male feminists would hold the same beliefs if they ever by chance experience the wrath & vindictiveness of certain females exactly the same way as some of the examples you have given, on the other hand way wonder since we have Hugo Schwyzer, the boot & highheel licker.

  • Shrek6

    Paul, thanks for such a great article. I have deliberately NOT looked at the FB comments or watched the video, because I have my teenage children with me for this week and I do not wish to have my mood changed. They enjoy being with me more than their mother, because I am psychologically sound, whereas she is NOT!

    Like you, I get very angry at the way white knights treat other men in these cases, especially when they have no idea what the hell is going on. So they beat the shit out of this poor guy, on the say so of some woman. And most women lie, so why would you want to bash someone on their say so?

    Although I have never done that, I have to admit that in my past, and I am now in my mid 50s, I have been a white knight and although I forgive myself for being like that out of childhood brainwashing, I am still ashamed that I had been hoodwinked by society and women so much.

    Now I battle with what I must teach my sons and daughter, because they are being flooded with the vomit we debate here on a daily basis.

    But I have to tell you about one statement that came from my dear Mum some years back. She is now almost 87 and although a lady, she has also lived a hard life.
    She told me that women today have absolutely no right to complain about the behaviour of any men or boys, because it is the fault of women if the behaviour of men/boys is seen to be bad.
    She said, “how can they blame anyone else, when they were the ones who taught the boys “everything” throughout their formative years.” The mothers are the ones who have first access to the blank mind and personality and they teach that boy everything!

    My Mum ain’t stupid by any means and I believe she is seeing things more clearly than I have ever done. And I have to say that it was not necessarily my parents who taught me to be a white knight. It was society that demanded it. We were brainwashed through schooling and TV/movies.

    We can only dream of the day when women will finally be made to face the responsibility of their actions and sort out their own problems, without the help of hired guns.

  • http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/ St. Estephe

    Superb introduction to this hugely important issue — women’s violence by proxy.

    Here’s a nice little 1911 story from my historical collection — of a man murdered by proxy on a woman’s false accusation: “Eunice Murphy Arranged to Have Her Fiance Lynched – To Get His Money – 1911”

    http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/10/eunice-murphy-arranged-to-have-her.html

  • http://themanonthestreet.blogspot.com/ TMOTS

    Paul,
    FYI, here is the full video as to what lead up to that part. This woman comes out and verbally goes crazy on these two guys… then when she asks why they dont say anything, he replies that maybe they dont want to talk to her! Then she slaps him and the white knight mele begins…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV-2qAYzWvE&feature=related

    TMOTS

  • DruidV

    Dr. Paul,

    I think you are going too easy on these pussy beggar White Knghts!!!

    The Buddah nature in you, I suppose.

    How can you not easily hate these hateful traitors?

    These despicable betrayers are nothing akin to millions of hapless Japanese-American interns during WW2, for example, who certainly did have a legit claim to innocence and who were promptly ignored and imprisoned anyway. Safety first and all that kind of gubmint bullshit, even back then…

    No, quite the opposite of that in fact, these White Knight scumbags are willing and eager enemy agents! Back stabbing turncoats, who will gladly throw you, me and every other Man out there (their own fathers and sons included, if needs be) directly under the vagenda bus; All for a wink and a nod.

    At least in the past, enemy agents of espionage and sabotage, like Mata Hari and Tokyo Rose, the Rosenbergs and even Benedict Arnold himself, through their treacherous actions, had something to gain for their respective groups. There was something tangible and exploitable to be gained by these people, through their conscious choices and behaviors.

    What does a WK stand to gain from his arrogant, selfish and quite conscious stupidity?

    The undying adoration (read: open contempt) of misandrists, female supremacists and other traitorous White Knights, like himself.

    The resulting indignant scorn and shunning of him by his own kind, is nothing he would ever even consider or be motivated by, in the face of an impending nod from (but no promises of) pussy….

    • Codebuster

      The merest scent of pussy is enough to have these supplicating goons varying their behavior and formulating strategies to impress the babied sex. They remind me of PUAs.

  • AntZ

    89 of the first 100 likes are women. Disgusting.

    In more positive news, many women are compassionate and pro-equality. The number of ex-feminists on this list is really eye-opening, inspiring, and fills me with hope.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/LadyMRAs/

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

      Thanks for the link AntZ, maybe now I can find a few women who don’t think I’m crazy!

  • http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/ St. Estephe

    Agree with the ideas. Hari ought to be left of the list. But I studied the Mata Hari case (because of its child custody aspect) and am convinced she did nothing other than being a double agent (on the side of France). The French gov’t needed a scapegoat for the horrible battle losses. That is why she was executed. She was just a high class hooker and a lousy spy, but a lousy spy on France’s behalf.

    • DruidV

      I only used Hari as an example of conscious choice, which she certainly did exercise.

      Her innocence is left up to the history books and a grain of salt.

  • AntZ

    Male privilege! Boys given candy bars! Girls denied the candy bars!

    http://i.imgur.com/j725r.png

    • xtrnl

      Warning: Not safe for work! I wish someone had told me.

      • Paul Elam

        Sorry, that one did not occur to me.

    • yurlungur

      Why do you have to post such a sick image.

  • Codebuster

    Great article Paul.

    About that video clip from India – here’s the irony – whom might we think women are most likely to get all moist and tender for? The bleating beta-chumps herding, or the defiant bad-boy that strikes back? He may have lost this round… but maybe somewhere in women’s fantasies, maybe in some future transformation of society…

    • http://none j24601

      No doubt about it, Codebuster, plenty of moist pussy for the dude who hit back, that’s for sure.

  • Codebuster

    She said, “how can they blame anyone else, when they were the ones who taught the boys “everything” throughout their formative years.” The mothers are the ones who have first access to the blank mind and personality and they teach that boy everything!

    I seem to recall someone saying something recently… something that’s on the tip of my tongue… now, what was it? Ah yes, it’s coming back to me… something to do with children and learning. Children first learn silence from their primary torturer… uhhh no, that’s not it… Ah yes, here it is… it is:

    Children first learn violence from their primary nurturer.

    A thesis regarding human sexuality and how it ties in with culture: Women define the things that matter and inculcate the things that matter in their infants’ minds. Men (who were once infants) actualize the things that matter. Men do women’s bidding, actualizing women’s violence by proxy.

    Funnily enough, women are also the primary abusers of children. Do we see a pattern here? (It might help to be up to date regarding current developments in the mind sciences – e.g., Norman Doidge)

    • Kukla

      “Women define the things that matter and inculcate the things that matter in their infants’ minds. ”

      What planet is this from?

      • Red Bike

        Earth. And it is true. It isn’t pretty, but it is true.

  • Phil in Utah

    Very excellent article, Paul. A White Knight’s behavior is inherently misogynistic, since he denies women their agency.

    Also, not that it matters, but chameleons don’t change their colors to blend in. They change colors based on their emotions. Even so, it’s an apt comparison.

  • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

    In addition to the “Like” button, Facebook really should offer both a “Shh” button for the over-sharers and attention whores and a “STFU” button for garbage like this.

    • Kimski

      Best reasons for actually entering that selfpromoting and selfcentered site, I’ve heard so far, Dr.T.

      On the other hand, I’d be spending all my time in there downvoting all the crap that most people upvote or like, and this latest example would just be another good place to start.

  • keyster

    The playing field needs to be tilted for equality to exist. These are men that keep the playing field tilted towards them, when the girls start sliding off it.

    It makes a man feel good to do something for the weak or less capable. Feminists and MRA’s alike will never program that out of him. The only difference is that women are tacitly aware men possess this trait, while men just react instinctually with or without pretext.

  • white demon

    I agree with what Mr. Paul says about white knights seeking women’s approval.

    From what I’ve gathered and seen, most white knight males seem to have psychological issues, also, some of them, if not most, actually only white knight in an effort to get laid!

    What baffles me is that most women say that they are psychologically more stronger than men, and yet seem to always want a “less psychologically stronger” man to come to their aid when in distress! (come to think, women say that they can do anything a man can, and do it better, yet, when it comes to heavy lifting, dirty and dying on the job, suddenly, “oh no, I’m a woman, I can’t do that”!)

    Like most of You, I’m not angry with these women. I’m angry with the white knights who let women get away with what they do at the expense of their brothers.

    (Now, I know I’ll get red marked for this)
    Sometimes, I wish this to happen to me one day: I want a woman to slap me hard for answering (verbally that is) back to her after she provokes me first and I’ll stay still (hopefully), then I want a white knight to come and congratulate me on been a “real” man for not ever hitting a woman even though she hit me first or what ever, I’ll then invite him to a corner, nicely, and when he is with me alone, dump all my anger on him (physically)!

    Ye, go on fantasizing whitedemon………..

    • Red Bike

      Your tactic will leave you empty feeling. It isn’t the White Knight that hit you. It doesn’t matter what you do to him, you still suffered the de-humanizing indignity from a woman. There is only one recourse to save your humanity…you must be permitted to be human and defend yourself regardless of the gender of the aggressor.

  • http://commonmanmedia.blogspot.com TCM

    I used to have a girlfriend that claimed to be the victim in every relationship she was in (including being beaten by one of them, raped by another, etc), and that one of the men around her still posed a threat. I was so deluded, I considered getting a concealed handgun license. Thankfully, I caught her in several lies before I got in too deep, and bailed.

    Two years later I was introduced to the MRM, and read The Myth of Male Power. Now my perspective has completely changed. Looking back, if I had been exposed to the MRM earlier, I would never have considered what I did back then.

    In generations past, men would have been cautioned to be wary of the falsehood behind many a woman’s tears, and that a great many women are fundamentally dishonest. But today, depicting the dark side of female nature, even if it saves lives, is considered taboo.

    Thanks for this article, Mr. Elam.

    • Red Bike

      The fact that more and more young men have less and less contact with their fathers has a lot to do with it. The rest is due to the single mothers constantly deriding their children’s father in his court-enforced absence. If you grow up around that shit you come to believe it. Fortunately for me, I had the advantage of having grown up in an intact and loving family. Curiously enough, my mother warned me against women’s dark side, lies and entrapment, not my father.

  • Chris

    One of the things that really infuriates me regarding manginas and white knights is most don’t realize they are being played as suckers by the women they “save.” I hope all the manginas and white knights reading this comment wake up and realize they are pawns being manipulated by women for women’s selfish gains. I have been seeing an ever-increasing amount of mouthy women who routinely cross The Line. All men understand there are certain things you can’t do or say to another man without expecting some type of consequence. Female privilege allows women to not only cross The Line, but rub it in men’s faces every chance they get. If women were held accountable for their actions and words, then this wouldn’t even be an issue.

    • keyster

      Women start becoming aware of their power over the Male during puberty. Very rarely will you ever hear a woman confess that “guys are such idiots when it comes to women”, but every now and then they’ll reveal this, while laughing or with an air of contempt.

      It’s an insidious power they wield over the male.
      It’s a dirty little secret.
      Don’t be a sucker.
      You’re little head has no brains.

      • Kimski

        I concur.
        And the same thing happens when you ask one of them in private, what it is women really want.
        First the little laugh comes out, and then the confession that most of them have absolutely no idea.
        Pure instinctive bitchin’ at the most basic primal level.

    • Red

      If they were capable of ‘waking up’ as you put it, they wouldn’t be manginas in the first place. Hold no hope for these types, only contempt.

  • Chris

    Men have physical power, and women have sexual power. Men are expected to use their physical power responsibly, but women are not expected to use their sexual power responsibly. Nine times out of ten, a man can’t use brute force to get what he wants. Doing so usually ends up with him being arrested. Women identify the manginas and white knights and use their sexual power to get what they want. Manipulation is a woman’s greatest strength, which can be more powerful than a man’s physical strength, but only if the man doesn’t understand female nature. If a man doesn’t fall for a woman’s tricks, then she has no power over him. It seems some women get involved with manginas and white knights as a way to get what they want in life without ever having to lift a finger. Why do the dirty work yourself when you can get some sucker to do the work for you.

    • Kimski

      “It seems some women get involved with manginas and white knights as a way to get what they want in life without ever having to lift a finger.”

      The dysfunctional behavior becomes even more weird, when you find out that they secretly despise the men that does these things for them. There’s absolutely no gain in it for the WK, and he just ends up looking like the idiot he is, if he falls for this kind of shit.

  • Bubbles
    • Raven01

      The white knights act as free hitmen or mafia muscle to kill and injure.
      But, in both of those cases the woman acted as the “don” ordering the hit or other violence.
      These women need to be prosecuted as such and, publicly shamed as horrible people. That alone might make a few white knights hesitant to ask “How high?” when any woman says “Jump to commit violence on my behalf”

  • Tawil

    The following headline, “Teen’s screams for help ignored” http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/6762759/Teens-screams-for-help-ignored details a story of a girl who called out for help as a gang of 15 males attacked her male freind… naturally she expected male strangers to jump in front of the gang of 15 assailants and use thier bodies as shields. She was shocked that no male would intervene and absorb the violence of the gang when she screamed for help.

    QUOTE: “I can’t imagine how frightening that must have been for my daughter, screaming for help to adults and being totally ignored.

    “Part of me understands why they would fear getting involved, but people have to start taking a stand.”

    The incident had shocked her daughter who had “no idea there were people like that in our community”.

    “It has knocked her. She has not slept for the last couple of nights.”

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

      “It has knocked her. She has not slept for the last couple of nights.”

      Oh trust me, she is still asleep.

  • TigerMan

    Grrrr gr grr grr grrr gr g gr grrr. Grrrrr gr gr grrr grr g grrr. Gr g gr g grrr gr gr g. If you catch my drift…

  • Paul Elam

    OT

    Even the feminists are starting to wake up (a little) to what the Radfem Hub is all about.

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/05/23/radfem2012-excluding-on-the-basis-of-gender/#disqus_thread

    • TigerMan

      Interesting comment thread there too, some mra’s doing sterling work combatting some of the propaganda b\s being perpetrated there. Sophie Warnes is only critical of the RadFems for their intolerance of trans-women but is quite happy with the rest of their blinkered views :
      Quote
      “But it’s worth noting that at no point in the explanation of what radical feminism is on the conference website, does it say that transphobia, or even ‘trans theory criticism’, is an integral part to the politics of radical feminism. It does, however, list those issues that I do think are important to discuss: male-perpetrated violence against women, the sex industry, cultural misogyny, and the effects of economic and environmental policies on women across the world.”
      The trouble with such a view of the world is if we were to learn from it then it would mean the complete IGNOREance of the needs and welfare of the opposite sex. Igoring the needs and welfare of approx 50% of the human race is not a virtue but rather a bigoted expression of selfishness and prejudice. The truly sad thing is bigots like Sophie Warnes seem totally oblivious to that failing so entrenched as she must be in her blame game against the male of the species.

  • Raven01

    Completely O/T:
    Please offer suggestions on the “profanity” I am triggering over at the new statesman.
    Futrelle/MRA Watch annoyed me so I may be inadvertently cussing up a blue fog and not realizing it, lol.
    “Watch the ManWomanMyth video series. I doubt you are ready to accept the full depth of misandry that forms the core of all major feminist organisations. But, I believe their commentary(and interviews) might open your eyes.
    If you have 20 000 “moderate sailors” but, the admiral and every captain is a bloodthirsty bigot your seas will run red. That is what happens with feminist organisations.
    Any man or woman with a conscience and half a brain cannot in good faith support any feminist organisation.
    Perhaps, you should watch the GirlWritesWhat videos on youtube for research aswell. Once your mind cracks open a bit, head on over to Shrink4Men. Sure there is some venting going on there but, after the things these men endure upon finding a place where someone will finally not ridicule them what else could you expect? Once there I simply ask that you divorce your knee-jerk reaction from your judgement and fully absorb exactly what it is these people have had to put up with, and that this mistreatment is often times supported by society(a society following the dictates of a feminized government i.e. men taxed to provide a myriad of women only services and not one single Office of Men’s Health, not a single domestic violence shelter willing to help men etc) is disgusting. A victim of an abusive person is still a victim no matter the gender.
    For the record, Dr. Tara Palmatier and GirlWritesWhat are both regular commentors/contributors to AVoiceforMen along with being co-hosts on 2 of AVfM’s internet radio shows on BlogTalkRadio. If these women are “the lunatic fringe” sign me up for a boatload of crazy, as they are both intelligent well spoken women with a good deal more compassion and principles than seems common in modern western women.”
    Failing that, I’ll play with my dogs and try looking at it with fresh eyes in a few hours.
    Thank you in advance to anyone that can see what I can’t atm.

  • eoghan01

    The story of Renada Williams is awful. Even if she had been sexually assaulted, it would have been terrible to seek revenge like that. I’m 95% sure that the vast majority of feminists would agree with that claim, actually. With the exception of a few outliers, I’d say that feminists in general tend to discourage violence, and particularly sexualized violence. Just my two cents.

    • Paul Elam

      Exactly two cents received.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

        Ka-Ching !

      • Raven01

        I think you were short-changed Paul.
        Here is hoping this kid has an open mind and isn’t just another feminist shill.
        I have my doubts but, I also have hope.
        @Eoghan.
        Download the AgentOrange files. Read them. See who has already been identified in that vile garbage. Then come back and tell me your thoughts on “most feminists” not being like that?
        It is my assertion that “most feminists” are blathering idiots. Yes, even the well-intentioned ones. They support a machine bent on destroying men and maleness just by claiming allegiance to feminism.

        • eoghan01

          Post a link so I can download them, and explain to me why I should take these comments as representative of feminism (unless you think the files make that clear). And stop suggesting that I’m a kid. ;)

          edit: and patiently await my response. I need to go to bed so I can take my daughter to daycare tomorrow.

          edit2: also, can you give me (or direct me to) your working definition of feminism? I just want to make sure we’re talking about the same thing, because these terms can get a little nebulous….

          • Sting Chameleon

            Tomato, tomahto. By the end of the day, it’s a destructive force nonetheless. Educate yourself before coming here to spew nonsense.

      • Zuberi

        Hey Paul, is there a page on this forum that offers self defense advice for young and old men? We should create one so that young and old men can defend themselves against the diseased, pugnacious cunts who are called “white knights”.

        • Sting Chameleon

          Find an academy that teaches Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Krav Maga in your area, the latter is preferable since they teach you how to deal with armed opponents. It’s expensive, but totally worth it.

          • Zuberi

            I’m familiar with boxing, wrestling and karate. I’d like to learn muay thai and capoeira.
            Do you know any martial arts?
            Are you tall?

  • CCRoxtar

    Women are like rainbows. They may look beautiful (most of them, anyway) but only idiots chase them.

    • eoghan01

      True that. Wouldn’t it be better to interact with women as actual human beings worthy of respect and interest, rather than as objects to be pursued?

      • Kimski

        That becomes really difficult when you think that respect is something that should be earned, and not delivered on demand for not accomplishing anything of value to anyone but one self.

        As to the interest. Hmm..I’m not that much into mental and physical spanking and humiliation, so I consider the pursue part somewhat counterproductive to my well being, also.

  • Dazza

    Great article Paul.

    Blinded by their approval of women, white knights are manipulated by women into committing acts of violence against other men. In truth, it is both the women and the white knights who are being violent.
    The puppets and the puppet masters.

    Where it gets tragic is that white knights are representing men. Very poor representations of men indeed. For white knights are merely extensions of women. They don’t consider mens issues nor do they even care for them. They have made a conscious decision to become enemies of their own gender for the sake of getting some kisses and cuddles from the women they desire. As a result, they look at the world through a selfish woman’s lens. They will sign the ‘white ribbon’ pledge, never realizing that his own gender is the primary victim of violence. Stupidly he perpetuates this violence by bashing a guys head in, simply because a women told him to. He puts himself in a violent situation, never knowing that he was manipulated into doing so because a cowardly women wanted to commit an act of violence but was too gutless and concerned by the opinion of others to do it by her own hand.

    If you are a white knight, stop seeking the approval of women. Stand on your own two feet and use that protective instinct to defend the rights of your own gender.

  • Atlas Reloaded

    Great article Paul. But..

    “Obviously they need to get off that boat, but I don’t blame them for being there in the first place,”

    I do. I do blame them. Seeing no reason why I can’t blame them and white knights at the very same time.

  • DruidV

    “With the exception of a few outliers, I’d say that feminists in general tend to discourage violence, and particularly sexualized violence. Just my two cents.”

    That’s a joke, right kid?

    You need to wake up and smell what you’re shoveling.

    Don’t believe me? Ask the millions of Men who are brutally raped (the true meaning of the word rape, btw, not your feminized, bastardized version of the word in which if a man talks back to you, you consider it rape) in prison everyday, because of the willful and wrongful accusations of women. For just one small everyday example of the benign benevolence of the collective (feminists and their supporters and enablers).
    When you have finished with this assignment, come back and explain to us again how feminists and even everyday wimminz aren’t wetting their boxers over just this one facet of feminist sponsored violence against males.

    Til then STFU & GTFO!

  • Luek

    Real men never beat women they only beat assholes who have dumped all over them.

    Women just have to recognize the reality that not every male is a masochistic Joe Biden and there are definitely consequences for being an idiot. Believing that you as a female are immune to retaliation just because you have a small 1.25 sq. inch invaginated area in your groin area and 2 mediocre enlarged sweat glands on your chest is magic thinking and could get you killed.

  • Europa Phoenix

    When I was 21, I wrote a short story that I published on a French literary website.
    God, I was completely brain-washed at the time! The plot was the reflection of my state of mind : nothing but pure White-Knight non-sense.
    Of course all the positive comments I had were written by women, and I admit I felt good… I was not like the others, I was a “good man”. I had their approval. Oh, I was so proud of myself… until the coming of THE negative comment.
    I can remember it 13 years later : “This is a spineless story, written by a mommy’s child who knows nothing of life”.
    I was infuriated, so I answered back with anger. The same reader (a man) finally wrote “I was wrong, maybe you’ve got some guts”.

    Today, I can imagine his reaction. He was a Paul Elam saddened by the young guy I was, but I’m sure he knew I needed to grow older to kill my inner White-Knight.

    Don’t lose hope. The man who drew this poor cartoon could change his mind in the future. Maybe he’ll join artistryagainstmisandry.com like I did :-)

  • DruidV

    I look at the propaganda of the femunist narrative and I compare it to that of the Nazi party in pre-WW2 Germany.

    On conclusion, the Nazis were way better at it. At least a few of the blatant lies they spewed were within the realm of the possible to millions of terrified German civilians. I can understand how a destitute, war torn population (yes fellows and gentlemen, the German people were still feeling the pain of WW1) would buy into anti-semitic fear mongering, aimed at the Jews.

    What I cannot fathom is how a fat, stupid, lazy peacetime population like that of the U.S. can exercise NO critical thinking at all and is happy to just embrace the lie, heads down…

    It’s surreal, at best…

    • Red Bike

      American White Knights think they’ll get more pussy if they beat up an occasional hapless soul who was wrongfully accused of hitting a woman – all for the uniquely savage pleasure women get from turning men against each other.

  • Autcel

    “Real person” helps anyone in need without risking themselves. Men do need help from time to time too.

  • Garethp

    I have to ask a question, based on the definition of a “White Knight” that I was brought up with, that I believe in. Someone who protects those who are the disadvantage, those who are not able to protect themselves. Regardless of Gender. It was instilled in me by feminists, yet I truly believe in it as a core value. Whether a guy is being beat of for defending himself against a women, or if a women is getting beat up by some guy on the street, step in on the side that needs help. I believe being a white knight is to try and do good, to help. But, being a male, this could conceivably be because I was taught that as a male I should protect those who are weaker or need protecting.

    So tell me, in your opinion, am I a construct of a feminist society, oppressed because I follow the teachings that I should use my power to protect those I think need it, or am I free because I follow my own values and morals, to try and help those that need it regardless of gender, or of what others deem to be the correct course of action?

    • Paul Elam

      What you are describing is not what is meant by White Knight as it is used here. Our description is more of a man who protects and serves women to a degree that is both infantilizing to women and demeaning and/or exploiting of the men. It has no real resemblance to what you are talking about.

    • IrieDave

      He should legally arm himself and let his would-be attackers know what they’ll be facing if they try to assault him.

  • Adam

    Yeah, immediately thought of this article last night. A girl kneed my brother in the balls “for a laugh”, and as a reflex reaction without thinking he punched her in the face, so it was self-defense. Now she has put up a picture of her black eye on Facebook and there are about 65 comments of guys calling him “scummy” and talking about how they’re going to beat the shit out of him. It doesn’t matter that she attacked him first, she’s a girl, and it was “just for a laugh”. A few of them even went around looking for him last night. It’s a fucking joke.

    • Luek

      @Adam: So, why hasn’t he charged her with sexual assault along with any stupid White Knights who threaten him with conspiracy to commit more assault and battery upon him? Nothing will happen until men start treating crap misandric incidences like this one as crimes.

      • tallwheel

        He probably would if he thought his charge would be taken seriously. Men often feel there is no place to turn for help, and too often there really isn’t.

        I think he might be better off seeking the help of close friends who he can trust.

    • Skip47586

      How do you know she kneed him first? If your brother had punched a woman without having been hit first do you think he’d admit to it?

      • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

        Statistically we know women are more likely to hit men than vice-versa, but of course one can never be entirely sure if one was not a witness.

        • Red

          Correct. The statistical data regarding domestic violence coming out of the CDC and the FBI is pretty damning against women.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

            What’s more damning is the way the top-line summaries of so much of that bely the data underneath.

            And I don’t trust the FBI data at all, actually, since it’s only based on police reports.

  • CCRoxtar

    I’m glad this article mentions the song “My Boyfriend’s Back.” I discuss it also (along with a few other thoughts; skip to 5:10 for the part about MBB) in one of my YouTube vids:

  • IrieDave

    I would just completely avoid women who claim that they’ve been victims of domestic violence because most or perhaps all of the time it’s an unhealthy women who seeks that kind of situation in the first place, if she’s even telling the truth about it. It takes two to tango as they say.

    • tallwheel

      Yep. I think that’s sound advice. It should be recognized as a red flag. If she really was the hapless victim of a unilaterally violent man who used her as a punching bag, then I sincerely pity her. However, there is just no way to confirm that is the case, and I think the majority of the time, it isn’t.

    • Red

      Yes. And…because the CDC sez women start the fights and hit first and are the first to use a weapon. Any woman who proclaims to have been in an abusive relationship is probably going to hit. Life is too short for that.

  • James Williams

    White knightery violence is the potential in a lot of people to engage in lynch mobbing. It is an unsavoury psychosis that many people possess in natural abundance.

  • Skip47586

    Ya know, the white knightery phenomena came as a result of decades or more of political agitation by women because male on female violence had become an epidemic. Every man believed he had the right to control the women in his life, usually his wife and daughters, by beating the hell out of them if they didn’t do what he wanted. It’s good that many men have come to believe this is immoral and that they’re willing to stand up for a woman who’s being attacked lest we go back to the bad old days. You don’t want to go back to the bad old days, do you, of men controlling women through violence?

    Also, I think a lot of people here are overestimating, for the sake of convenience, the rate at which men who beat women do so in response to being hit by said woman. Usually, when a man hits a woman, she has not hit him first, he’s just doing it because he’s angry or wants to control her.

    Even in the situation where the woman hit first, the guy should only defend himself instead of attempting to beat her to death like some guys seem to advocate.

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      Oh lord, I’m getting a headache. What you’re saying here is common “wisdom” that is actually a clusterfuck of wrong so long I don’t even know where to begin. I’m getting a headache even trying to formulate a response. It just shows us how much more work we have to do to make people understand what the history of all this was really like. Stick around long enough and ask intelligent questions and assume that maybe, just maybe, possibly, you’ve been misinformed for much of your life on a lot of this, you’ll benefit and have some useful insights. Right now you don’t even know where you’re wrong or where your statements are questionable. But we try to speak to open minds, if you have one.

      Anyone else want to try to help out on this one?

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

      Wow. There has never been an epidemic if male on female violence. EVER. And nobody here is overestimating the “rate at which men who beat women do so in response to being hit by said woman.” Statistically, we are probably underestimating it. Do you believe every terrible thing you’ve ever heard about men or do you just despise men as a matter of principle?

      • Red Bike

        “And nobody here is overestimating the “rate at which men who beat women do so in response to being hit by said woman.” Statistically, we are probably underestimating it.”
        I’m not seeing the relevance of this issue, whether or not it is over- or under-estimated. If it is considered at all, then it is an admission that women hit men with the expectation that there will be no repercussions. Until we deal with women’s expectation of unlimited permission to commit violence against their domestic partners, any other discussion of the matter is pointless. If women want men to stop retaliating with violence for violence, then give us the same unfettered right to have your sorry asses jailed when you hit us as you have when we hit you. Make it mandatory that any allegation of physical assault by a woman against her domestic partner results in her immediate and unquestioned jailing. If you’re not willing to discuss equal treatment before the law then this is just all talk going nowhere.

    • Red Bike

      “Usually, when a man hits a woman, she has not hit him first, he’s just doing it because he’s angry or wants to control her.” These lies have been debunked by several studies and by data collected by both the CDC and the FBI. There is no point on having a discussion with you when you cling to myths.

  • Skip47586

    Also, I thought I should add that there are MANY men who will say the most misogynist, vile things to women, that they’d never say to a man, because they are larger than the woman and know they can get away with it. There would be far fewer conflicts between men and women if men would simply treat women with the same respect that they give to men of the same size and fighting ability. Unfortunately, many men don’t do that and instead try to use women as doormats.

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      Who are these men? I’ve never met one, although I’ve heard rumours of them.

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      “There would be far fewer conflicts between men and women if men would simply treat women with the same respect that they give to men of the same size and fighting ability.”

      Why don’t you test your theory out. Find a female friend who is about your size and fighting ability.

      Find a large man, have your female friend go up to him and call him a “fat lazy fuck” and try to pick a fight. You should record the result.

      Now find a different large man, and you go up to the man and call him a “fat lazy fuck.”

      Repeat until you gather enough evidence to either prove or disprove your assertion that “men don’t respect women as much as a man of equivalent fighting size and strength.”

      Or you’re put in the hospital.

      And if you’ve suddenly wised up and realized you’re really not interested in learning very rapidly how little you’re respected as a man relative to a woman “of equivalent fighting size and strength”… you can look at this study:

      “Men’s greater use of direct aggression is not evident in studies of intimate partner aggression. In previous research, the effects of target sex and relationship intimacy have frequently been confounded. This study sought to examine these effects separately. One hundred and seventy-four participants (59 male and 115 female) read vignette scenarios in which they were provoked by a same-sex best friend, an opposite-sex best friend, and a partner. For each target, participants estimated their likely use of direct physical and verbal aggression as well as noninjurious forms of anger expression. Results showed that men lower their aggression in the context of an intimate partnership and that this is an effect of the target’s sex. In contrast, women raise their aggression in the context of an intimate partnership and this is an effect of intimacy with the target. The use of noninjurious angry behavior did not vary between targets for either sex of the participant, which suggests that the effects of target are confined to behaviors which carry an intention to harm. Possible effects of social norms and oxytocin-mediated emotional disinhibition on intimate partner aggression are discussed.”

      http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ab.20388/abstract

    • Shrek6

      What a stupid thing to say!
      Or have you only ever mixed with losers (men) who don’t respect anyone, including women?

      In all my years, I have worked and socialised with hundreds of men of varying backgrounds and many have been as rough and ready as any. But in all those years I never ever experienced the sort bull you are talking about.

      Men getting violent over women sure. If you are stupid enough to swear around a woman, speak of another man’s woman/wife, you are very likely to get your head knocked off by these deluded white knights. But I never saw, or even heard through the grape vine that any of these men behaved like you suggested.

      There are abusive men as there are abusive women. They are both mongrels and they both prey on weaker innocent victims, because they are gutless cowards. The only problem is, the abusive women get away with it.

      And please don’t come here with the crap theory that men are out there treating women like you say they are and say it as if it is a general problem in the community. You are just shit stirring, sprouting the same old feminist crap and asking for trouble by writing that up.

    • Red Bike

      An example please? A vile statement isn’t necessarily misogynist. A misogynist statement isn’t necessarily vile. How about a specific example, if indeed you can think of one?

    • Red Bike

      “There would be far fewer conflicts between men and women if men would simply treat women with the same respect that they give to men of the same size and fighting ability.” There would be far fewer conflicts between men and women if women weren’t the entitled and legally protected aggressors that studies have shown them to be.

  • Jade Davis

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    Does modern feminism resemble the Ku Klux Klan?

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  • Red

    Paul is just another White Knight, the very idea of suggesting you are not a real man if you hit a woman who continues to hit you! I’d like very much to punch this a55hole out for pretending to be a voice for men or a real man. The world has changed. It’s time for a completely level ‘playing field’ for men and women. If you hit me thinking you can get away with it because you are a woman, you’re likely to find yourself waking up laying on your behind, the same exact treatment I would dish out to a man. Equal is equal. The expectation that you can get away with physical violence against another person because you’re a woman and he’s a man is going to get you in trouble, as it should. In other words, if you’re a man and your actions result in you getting your a55 kicked, there should be no difference in outcomes for a woman. If you don’t want to scape yourself off the ground, it’s very simple, don’t lay your hands on me.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

      You have been banned because of a serious and direct violation of Comment Policy (general attack, ad hominem, trolling and violence). [Ref: 1007]

      Additional remarks:

      "Paul is just another White Knight, the very idea of suggesting you are not a real man if you hit a woman who continues to hit you! I'd like very much to punch this a55hole out for pretending to be a voice for men or a real man." nuff said, Dan.

      • Red Bike

        Red’s comments were no different than those of Typhonblue below with the exception of his anger at Paul’s shaming tactics. If this site isn’t willing to examine it’s own actions and complicity in the feminist view, then I don’t see how it is any different from the feminist view, let alone how it can claim to be a Voice for Men. It is extremely angering to suggest that any man is less of a man because he chooses to defend himself. That’s the kind of shit I would expect to hear from Andrea Dworkin. And that kind of thinking by men is EXACTLY how we arrived at this point.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ David King

          You have been banned because of a serious and direct violation of Comment Policy (ban evasion). [Ref: 1008]

          Additional remarks:

          Look, we don't particularly disagree that men should be able to defend themselves, and of course we think that what applies to men should apply to women — but we also have a clear comment policy that forbids even hinting at violence.

          Also, when you get banned, coming back with a different account is not on. Had you actually <i>read</i> the <a href="http://www.avoiceformen.com/policies/comment-policy/">comment policy</a>, you'd have seen there was a means to appeal the original ban instead.

  • Red

    Most gay men are disgusted by women, unless they are masochistic, which a few are.