I never thought my transition from female to male would lead me to the Men’s Rights Movement.
I never even knew such a thing existed until a year after the fact. My transition was not about sexual politics, but about achieving personal brain-body congruence. I was correcting an internal dysphoria that had persisted since age 7, when I angrily declared to the boy next door that I was “Super Boy and not Super Girl,” and staunchly defended my decision to enter the boys’ restroom to a stressed-out elementary school teacher.
At 11 I begged my mother to let me cut my hair as short as possible and was thrilled when our dentist mistook me for a boy. In short, everything I was inside; everything that I could sense and attach to my identity, was male, even as my body said otherwise.
That conflict intensified harshly. The next year I tried to cut off the breast stubs that grew on my chest with a steak knife, and expressed a strong desire to get breast cancer, “so that I can get a double mastectomy like Grandma!” When I was 16 I developed anorexia in order to stop my periods and shrink my breasts as much as possible.
My distress never had much to do with social roles, and for the most part I did not transition in order to gain any perceived social privilege. I played with Barbie dolls and dressed up as a princess (though I always added a sword just to prove I was a tough princess). Xena was my role model.
From a young age, though, I did express extreme anger at not being able to enlist in the Army as an infantryman, and was enraged when a friend’s grandmother presumed that I did not know how to put gas in a car because I was a girl. Any time a man showed “chivalry” towards me, such as offering to help me carry something heavy, I was insulted and angry. I also experienced howls and whistles on a daily basis from men in cars when I went out alone for walks.
“Well, I must be an extreme feminist,” I remember thinking. “Because feminists are the only other girls who seem to get as angry at these things as I do.”
I got the double mastectomy I’d always wanted the day before I turned 20. By this time I had learned of the existence of female-to-male transgender people and knew that this described my condition almost perfectly. I had gotten to the point where it was either get a sex change or kill myself.
After having my breasts removed I began administering weekly testosterone injections. My voice dropped and I began to grow a beard. At this time I began to be taken as male in social settings.
The first thing I noticed was that the cat calls from cars as I walked down the street came to an end. No longer feeling sexually threatened was a huge relief, although it also led to me to another most interesting observation. I wondered if I made an ugly boy since I no longer received daily assurance that I was sexually desirable. It actually took a while to get used to not being seen as the physically attractive sex. My gain became an unexpected loss and I began to realize there are some things on the other side of the fence that you cannot see until you cross over and stand there.
Standing there, as I do now, provides a very different view of life, and of men, than I ever had. Until I got here, there was much I was unaware of, like the previously unseen objectification of my body as an appliance.
It took a while to get it. I was pleasantly surprised when a female friend asked me to help her move furniture shortly after I began hormone therapy. At this point my muscles had developed somewhat in response to testosterone, but I was still within the female range of strength. Nevertheless, I was able to move the furniture (though I’m sure she could have done so herself). I felt very manly and tough. Wasn’t it wonderful that people now presumed I was strong and capable rather than weak and in need of chivalric protection?
I was happy, celebrating the fact that I was no longer seen as just a piece of meat–although later I realized that now society either uses me or ignores me, because I’m not attractive enough to be a piece of meat. I’m instead just an ugly, hairy beast with a wallet and a pair of muscular arms. Or, I might say with some measure of irony, a piece of meat that doesn’t even rate a cat call.
I have also found it very difficult to get used to always having to take action and make decisions. Men are expected, forced rather, to be the active agents of society. If there is a problem, men are expected to take the initiative to solve it rather than seek help or advice or take advantage of social services.
In straight relationships, the man is expected to approach the woman, initiate conversation, and move the relationship in the direction he wants it to go while simultaneously being extremely careful to monitor her unspoken cues to ensure he is not being rapey or creepy (and if he fails to correctly read those cues, he risks being put away in jail and raped himself).
Even in gay male relationships, no partner takes the “female” role: both are expected by the other to approach, initiate, take charge, and make decisions at least half of the time.
Being an active agent 24/7 is not a privilege, but a very tedious and stressful responsibility. Having it suddenly forced upon me without being trained for it since birth was mentally and physically exhausting.
The burden of all that hyperagency has a huge downside. Sometimes men need help as well. When they do, people are very reluctant to come to their aid and do not hesitate to make fun of them for needing assistance. There are virtually no domestic violence shelters for men, nobody cares if a man is homeless, or out of work, or if he is mentally ill and needs care and concern, because he’s a man, damn it. He’s supposed to be strong and capable, all the time, or else he’s useless and might as well not exist (just like an older, unattractive and overweight woman is seen as useless).
According to feminism male privilege guarantees that he has it so much easier than women. They laugh at the notion that it might be difficult to be a man in this society, because they can’t see the other side.
Well, I’ve stood on both sides of the fence and, without bias from either, I can safely say that “male privilege” in this day and age is bullshit. Women face a lot of threats, to be sure; but men face many of the same exact threats without the social and legal support that women have. Men’s issues are for the most part not even acknowledged to exist.
Due to stress from college and bullying (which, oddly enough, came only from within the campus’ LGBT/feminist community) I required a brief stint at a mental hospital last summer. I was at a very low point and began whimpering during my intake evaluation, at which point the doctor told me, “You’re a man, right? That crying is pathetic. Man up!”
Man up. It suddenly hit me that most men are probably told this phrase hundreds of times throughout their boyhood. At one point I would have given anything for people to encourage me to toughen up like Xena. Now I realized that sometimes, men, like women, just don’t feel tough and need the same love and care that women do when they are hurting. Why is this so hard for society to accept? Both men and women can be tough most of the time, but everybody has points in their lives in which they need to be taken care of by others.
Nevertheless, I stopped crying immediately (which testosterone makes physically easier to do), having been reminded that it is now socially unacceptable to show my feelings, even when being admitted to a mental hospital. I didn’t mind that much. After all, it’s a man’s responsibility to always be strong and capable, right? I was a man, damn it, and right embarrassed that I’d failed to behave like one.
After a year of these experiences, and a year of listening to extreme feminist doctrine at my liberal arts college (which schooled me on the inherent violence of male sexuality, “rape culture,” “trigger warnings,” “safe spaces,” etc.. it seemed to me that many of them wanted to be seen as weak, delicate flowers rather than as strong and capable women), I began to change the way I saw things. I took the red pill, you might say.
Since women now share traditional male “privileges,” they also ought to share traditional male responsibilities; that is, to carry their own weight and acknowledge guilt when they are guilty, and to respect and care for the men in their lives like men respect and care for them.
Current feminist doctrine wants to retain traditional female privileges (in the form of the Violence Against Women Act, courts favoring mothers over fathers and ex-wives over ex-husbands, etc.) as well as all the traditionally male rights they have rightfully earned over the last hundred years (ability to enter virtually any career they wish and fully participate in society). It is a human rights victory worthy that women now share traditional male rights, but it is unfair that they are not willing to give up traditional female rights in return, because this now puts men in a disadvantaged position.
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Very interesting read. Well done.
great article. thanks Steven.
Testosterone actually make it easier to stop crying! I am usually very skeptical of these statements but you seem very credible. Nice article.
Testosterone, contrary to popular myth, does not make men aggressive. It makes them calm when their emotions start roiling. When it does have an aggressive effect, believe it or not, it’s when it converts into estrogen in their brains during a time of crisis; that converted-into-estrogen hormone brings out the anger. Which tells you something about the easy assumptions we make about sex hormones.
Damn, up vote by 10 to the power of 8.
One of the scariest experiences I had was being put on an estrogen dominant OCP in my early 20s…I was so fecking aggressive on it. Got off it PDQ, as I hated the violent flashes of anger.
There is so much ignorance around the real effect of hormones
You know, I’ve been joking about estrogen’s poisonous effects on emotional well-being since the 1980′s. Interesting to know that there might be some truth to it.
Somehow, I suspected your special powers, Bibo.
Not only that, it appears that testosterone is also linked to honesty.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/study-testosterone-is-truth-serum/263515/#
This is just one more area where feminists have things bass ackwards. With PMS being a legal defense for insane conduct, including murder, it appears that estrogen is the hormonal culprit of human failings.
Although it’s easy to draw broad implications from any study, there is support for the contention that in some ways men are more honest, although a caution I’d have in that particular study you cite may be that it’s only one area of checking honesty, and there’s other ways to interpret that (like, maybe they were less likely to trust the assurances they weren’t being watched).
The controversial Satoshi Kanazawa had interesting thoughts on this matter:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201105/why-men-lie-and-women-lie-down
For daring utter thoughts such as these he was almost completely professionally destroyed, although I gather he’s still hanging on by his fingernails.
It’s infuriating what gender ideologues have done. There really should be a genuine, actual science called “Gender Studies” which actually looked at fascinating questions like this in exacting and rigorous fashion. Such a field would be rich study for open-minded inquiry and has all sorts of potential for rigorous, double-blinded study. But the ideologues will do anything they can to stop that it seems. Only little cracks of light are able to get through.
It’s sickening that the only way to penetrate on this stuff is to be rude. It really is. But after 20 years of watching myself, and you watching even longer than me, I’ve had to come to accept that being rude and screaming is the only thing that will get anyone to fucking listen. Fucking frustrating, that.
Let’s not go too over the top here. We don’t have to demonise either testosterone or œstrogen. I used to feel very aggressive and predatory on my natural testosterone, and now that I take antiandrogens and œstrogen, I feel much more centred and under control. Trans men, by contrast, often report greater calm on testosterone. It seems it depends on what hormone suits your body and your personality. In my case, transitioning to female certainly saved my life.
Correct. Also it is the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, a process that increases through age, that results in things like, enlarged prostate which can lead to prostate cancer, increased weight, especially around the middle, and grumpy old man syndrome. Yes, men become more emotional, and more grumpy and less rational in old age because of two things……the decline in testosterone production, and the conversion of increasing amounts of their remaining testosterone into estrogen. The only reason they aren’t physically more aggressive is because……like women…..they are rendered weaker, more fragile…..and more fearful by this process. Also, every type of cancer is more prevalent in old men, rather then young men. So when testosterone levels are lower in men, and estrogen levels are higher…..in old age……they become more prone to developing cancer. The reason that chemical castration lessons the aggressiveness of existing cancer, and can lead to remission, is because removing testosterone also removes the estrogen, because the estrogen’s source is testosterone.
I know of one man who’s enlarged prostate and early prostate cancer was successfully reversed by administering a drug which blocks the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, and also wearing patches which boosted his levels of testosterone to that of a teenager. This treatment was carried out by an endocrinologist who was a woman, and a proponent of testosterone replacement and anti-estrogen treatment for all men over 45 and was adamant that declining testosterone and increased estrogen levels in aging men lead to many of the age related male specific ailments. This is apparently common knowledge in the field of hormone therapy, but is repressed by political correctness stemming from feminist ideology.
That’s something I may want to keep in mind as I age. Finding an open-minded doctor may be hard, but, I’m 46 now and only going to be getting older. (Which beats the alternative).
Where I work, I’ve actually met a handful of people who went through the reverse process of what Steven described: they were men who became women. They are actually more irritable and more aggressive.
We actually had one pre-op transsexual (i.e. boobs, female hormones and penis) come into the lab and wreak havoc because we got “her” down as a male -it wasn’t our fault, “her” insurance still got “her” down as a male and “she” was recorded as such. While any normal person would just let it slide, and take it in good humor, they just don’t seem to be able to do so.
All that talk about “testosterone poisoning” is complete bullshit. “Estrogen Poisoning” is where it’s at.
Given that you are deliberately trying to be a dick about her gender (with “her” in quotation marks) here, I’m not surprised she picked up on your retrograde attitude and talked back to you.
While we are on the subject here’s one of the best articles about testosterone ever written FWIW…. blasts our conceptions of it out of the water:
http://testosteronetrouble.blogspot.com.au/
Interesting that we falsely stereotype testosterone as frequently as we falsely stereotype men.
You might have broken down and been a guest at the nuthouse, but after all you have went through you are a very brave man indeed.
I am also glad that having gained so much insight that you have taken the additional courageous step of joining the men’s movement, you do realise that you are more of a man, a real man, than every single born-male man who white knights, manginas’ (is that a verb?
) and every man who does not make a stand?
If you are ever in London, I will buy you beers…. and that’s coming from a scotsman!
Very interesting – thanks for sharing your story. Your words are very effective for the MRM since you have lived both sides. (It would be kind of cool if someday there was virtual reality technology like in Avatar that would allow men and women to experience being other people for a few weeks. It would undoubtedly help our understanding of others.)
I hope that you are still pleased with your choice, even if there are significant burdens associated with being male.
The Avatar thing is something that I think about a lot. If you can’t wait for some virtual reality way to fully experience being on the other side of the fence, I find that it is possible to already experience this to some extent by posing as the opposite sex in online games or even message boards. I was downvoted in r/mensrights when I made this suggestion, but seriously, try it! I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong or dishonest about doing it. I find that people are more likely to befriend and try to help female characters in online games, and less likely to criticize the opinions of female posters. This is a generalization, or course – people will flame female posters sometimes too, as you know. I encourage everyone to make their own observations.
As someone who plays exclusively female avatars, but is male in real life – I’ve lost count of how many times I /danced on mailboxes as a Night Elf, or flirted casually with people to lower their defenses. I consider myself strictly straight, but open minded and not willing to take most things seriously.
And of course, none of my characters ever had to ask for free stuff. People’d toss money at me, gear at me, whatever they had, without me asking. Got promoted to guild leader three times in two separate games despite constantly insisting I didn’t want the responsibility, was a beloved guide (volunteer position) who could do no wrong in Everquest, and even had a server admin sneak me a Collector’s Edition code for the (at the time) latest expansion, just because I had casually mentioned in chat how lame it was that I wasn’t going to get to play the new content until my next paycheck.
All because I prefer to stare at female characters during my longer game sessions.
It was actually a form of culture shock when I signed up for a Korean MMA MMO and decided that I’d rather play a compact male character than the stereotypical tiny female martial artist.
Where did all my free stuff go? What do you mean, I actually have to work for my premium Dragon Coins, now? Nobody wants to drag me behind them for a few hours on autofollow while I’m /afk sleeping?
So, back on topic – yeah. The easiest way to see the gender divide in action is to pretend to be the opposite gender online – not just in form, but in action and style. Add plenty of cute emoticons at the end of your sentences
, randomly giggle and teehee at things people say in chat X), and never ask for free stuff ^_^, just assume you’ll get it if you let people know you vaguely want it. :3
I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out how to be taken as a male in a game. Same general strategy, actually – pick a female character, but drop all of the above goofiness and stick to the nonsocial aspects of gaming, for the most part. Oh, and throw free stuff at anyone claiming to be a female.
See y’all at the mailbox, teehee~!
A lot of men seem to use female characters for the same reasons you list above, so it would be silly to assume someone’s sex IRL is the same as their characters, but – yeah, somehow just adding some ‘teehee’s and emoticons seems to do the trick.
It’s emasculating, to an extent, and it works. “Real men” don’t giggle, they guffaw; they don’t titter, they smirk; they don’t blush shyly, they flush irritably – so on, so forth.
Playing as a female character, trying to be taken as a female in real life, requires self-emasculation, engaging in behaviors that are taboo to “real men.”
Using emoticons is part of that, because it conveys that sense of femininity and emotional expressiveness.
Read the following, for example:
“You are a goddamn asshole, and I wish you’d fucking die in a house fire. Naw, I’m just kidding.”
“You are a goddamn asshole!
I wish you’d fucking die in a house fire, lol >.< Just kidding! XD"
It plays to gender stereotypes, which as an MRA I'm mostly against, but as a competitive casual gamer looking to enjoy my spare time, I use for any possible advantage. (I'm also the president of the Hypocritical Oath Society.)
An interesting point you make about the emoticons and such, although when I used to play MMOs I played mostly male characters I still used stuff like the smileys and such because I figure they are a fair way of showing an emotion over the internet. There were a few people I talked to over different characters-some male, some female. I wonder if I was taken as a girl playing a male character for the heck of it.
Edit: Comment got eaten by the wordpress machine, bleh.
The short version is; good roleplay. It’s not just about inserting an emoticon every opportunity, but about knowing how to play to gender stereotypes well enough that you can insert an emoticon when needed.
Tabletop gaming in particular is a good way to get started in developing roleplay essentials, play as a female character in D&D, and really get into the character.
Adopt a falsetto, worry about particulars that affect you differently (do tree nymph’s get periods?) from other party members, and really get into understanding your character, essentially.
Ah that brings back memories, I’ve both used and seen other people have conversations like that. It was the quickest way of conveying some emotion rather than typing *anger* or something like that. Perhaps a tad vapid and empty but it worked well enough. It is an interesting thought on stereotypes people have, in communication habits and speech patterns to see who people assume you over the internet where there isn’t any easy way to distinguish sex or other characteristics other than by what is presented, often only in text
Wow. This is heavy. My heart goes out to you, Steven, brother.
The male experience is simply one of brutality, suffering and pain, no matter what way you slice it. It is a biologically endowed curse. The purveyors and profiteers of the lie which serves to amplify the brutality of that existence are the evil for which atonement cries out ..
A righteous fury wells up from deep within middle earth. Thou shalt not lie.
Steven, thank you so much for this article.
I have a gay friend who is convinced I am a gay man trapped in a woman’s body..
While I’ve always been more comfortable with male company and have the dubiously unfeminine habit of 24/7 agency I’ve never experienced the agony of body dysphoria – something for which I am eternally grateful. Having known a few people at various stages in their transitions (both directions), I am in admiration of anyone who has the bravery to face this process.
I hope that you’ve found someone who has shown even passing interest in you as a man! I had a long period of being viewed as ‘too unconventional to be attractive’ in my teens and 20s, and that sucks.
Steven, welcome. I very much hope we hear more from you, brother.
Scrub this “…as well as all the traditionally male rights they have rightfully earned over the last hundred years (ability to enter virtually any career they wish and fully participate in society). It is a human rights victory worthy that women now share traditional male rights…”.
These are incoherent and offensive statements. A ‘right’ intrinsically confers responsibility- if they have not acquired the commensurate responsibility, then they have not “EARNED” a n y t h i n g much less a ‘right’. They have simply manipulated and connived their way into ever more privilege, at the express expense of men and boys.
To view ‘work’ as a right is retarded. The primary characteristic of labor is the responsibility attribute, of which females bear none.
This is very easily exemplified by the fact that females only ‘fought for the right’ to a very explicit type of ‘work’- office ‘work’- after Men and Men alone raised civilization from the bare earth with their bare hands, at immeasurable sacrifice. Prior to such air conditioned offices, all of your women folk were gladly cowering behind men in the face of any actual ‘work’.
Feminism makes Bernie Madoff look like a bitch’s chump ..
Yeah, I also felt like women didn’t deserve the bone that Steven threw them at the end.
Rights and responsibilities are two sides of the same coin. If you have one without the other you are either privileged or a slave.
Thank you, Steven. Nicely done.
Now, all we need is the popcorn as the feminist heads begin exploding. Cheers.
Good article.
Steven, this is a great article, with great perspective, Would You mind if I quoted this on my blog?
Thank you so much,and feel free to quote it wherever you want.
Reminds me of Nora Vincent’s journey
Self Made Man. Once she experienced life as a man, it blew her mind and she’s thankful for female privilege now.
Actually, the experience landed her a nice little stay in a mental institution, which always makes me laugh, whenever I hear women talking about wanting part of the ‘male priviledge’. I can almost picture Jack Nicholson leaning over and shouting: “You couldn’t handle it!’, when that happens.
Well, I can show you a different story of the exact same style:
http://imgur.com/thowk
and it’s not seeing both sides of the fence.
I can understand the downvotes. My point was that I’m glad we have Steven here who is being positive and writing about these issues without being biased and without an agenda, like the image I linked to does. The image has a very one-sided view with the purpose of demonizing men meant to further the Feminist agenda, and it’s being shared among many. They don’t even see the hypocrisy of supporting women, yet demonizing men, then claiming they do it for equality.
Thanks for a fresh perspective on gender roles, is interesting to hear reflections that don’t come from the entrenched viewpoints of either “masculinity” or “femininity” which latter are anyway neurotic stances according to famous psychologist James Hillman: “I follow old Alfred Adler in considering all oppositional thinking to be a neurotic mental activity. The male-female opposition was for him the most basic of the polar pairs, and hence the most neurotic. This explains why it is so crazy-making trying to step aside from gender arguments once they are broached in friendly conversations, public forums, or academic articles You get immediately entwined, for/against, better/worse, and reduced to opposing arguments”.
What I find most compelling in your story is the emphasis on your humanity, on human being, e.g.;
There’s nothing wrong with acting classically masculine or classically feminine and sourcing our lives from that orientation, providing that we still notice males and females have much more in common – including a common need to be cared for as you say above. However when someone becomes identified with a gender to the point that they see nothing in common they give themselves over to the extreme positions of masculism and feminism otherwise known as ‘gender essentialists’ or ‘gender narcissists’.
Wholesale identification with an “opposite” and therefore neurotic role leaves out that huge area of humanity males and females have in common; fact is that males and females are both among the homeless; both are among the mentally ill, both are among the impoverished; both suffer the impact of environmental degredation and the pollution, and so on. Males and females equally experience all emotions- jealousy, pride, elation, fear, anxiety, depression, or joy, and they equally suffer physical pain, tiredness, hunger, heart attacks, diabetes, strokes, malaria or the common cold. We all appreciate the staples of life; play, food, travel, music, work and we all enjoy the aesthetic rush of a sunrise, full moon, or nature scene. And most everyone has a sense of empathy and morality that at base need not be gender specific.
So while important, gender differences don’t need not be more than a frill on the periphery of greater human being.
You use the word “masculism” as if it represents the male equivalent of feminism, but I think that there is no male equivalent of feminism, at least not yet (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction though — at least in the physical world.)
If there exists a truly male chauvinist movement somewhere that preaches misogyny and vilifies women like feminism does with men (whether or not they self-identify as “masculists”) I would be interested to know where and who its adherents are.
Yes, masculism is the equivalent of feminism in the neurotic sense that Adler describes. However masculists and feminists demonstrate Adler’s point in their own ways- ways that are sometimes different, sometimes identical. Both fail to highlight and emphasise obvious areas of commonality shared by males and females.
I’ve had a bit of a revelation, so to speak, after reading this. A good while back, six or seven years ago, I had a friend who decided she wanted to be a man. She had identified as lesbian for as long as I had known her and this came as a shock to me when I first heard about it. I remember thinking that she would never really understand what it was like to be a man. She had been a woman for so long, and even as a lesbian (a community that still sets into gender roles despite both being the same sex) she would never really know.
After reading this, you’ve proven to me that He will. And when he does realize the lie that’s been pulled over his eyes is just that, a lie, I shudder to think how it will effect him. I hope from the bottom of my heart, that he comes to the same conclusions you did, that he takes the red pill. You’re article has served another purpose though. Its proof that people from “The other side” are not only capable of understanding what men go through, but if educated on these issues (in your case it was more like blunt force trauma from what I read) they will come to our side.
Like Perseus, I’m more than happy to call you brother and welcome you in. I’m small potatoes compared to the regular commenters on this sight, but after reading your article, I think you would make a great addition to it and the movement
When I got to the part about what the doctor said, I got this really great image in my head of a movie scene.
It’s of a doctor telling his patient to “man up.” And his patient’s friend has a few words for the doctor.
“Well fuck you too, doctor.” The friend will say defiantly.
“Excuse me?” The doctor will be understandably surprised.
“Tell me this doctor. Would you tell a woman who’s crying over the loss of her child to man up?”
“Of course I wouldn’t.”
“I thought not. That would make you an insensitive jackass.”
The doctor is momentarily stunned.
“And that you would only say that to my friend here makes you a sexist, man-hating insensitive jackass. Get out.”
Thumbs up if you want to see this movie.
That’s exactly what I propose everyone to do. On every such occasion. Immediately and on the spot. And then narrate the incident and its effects in a blog or comment. (Though in a case similar to the above, personally I’d avoid using the ‘bad’ words.)
Thank you Steven for a heart rending story of bravery which is very well written and uniquely insightful.
It reminds me allot of John Howard Griffin’s excellent book “Black like me” – (Griffin was a white native of Dallas, Texas and the book describes his six-week experience travelling on Greyhound buses (occasionally hitchhiking) throughout the racially segregated states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia disguised passing as a black man).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Like_Me
Steven, to me you are a very welcome addition the aVfM community.
I think your presence represents a tipping point moment of sorts for aVfM. For as the Men’s Rights Movement message sinks in and the makeup of aVfM community diversifies ever further, it makes it increasingly difficult for the movement to be mis-characterized as a bunch of angry white privileged males.
I look forward to reading more of your posts and comments should you offer them up here.
I second that motion!
Very, very fascinating, Steven. I hope it doesn’t seem to cold of me to put it that way. I can only imagine how difficult it must have been. What I find especially notable is that you are very different from some people I know who feel that they must do away with the concept of gender entirely if they are to become who they are meant to be. This seems a bit punitive to me. Anyway, you have a very strong testimonial demonstration against today’s radfems. Solanas would be soiling herself.
“Solanas would be soiling herself.”
That’s probably what she’s doing right now, quite literally, ie. she’s turning into soil.
Slightly off topic. I was going through old QI episodes (1×03 right now) and Stephen made mention of the site “amiannoying.com”. I’d suggest that everyone here go to http://www.amiannoying.com/%28S%28gravpmax3nyq21r3zfhtnf45%29%29/view.aspx?ID=13365 and upvote Ms. Solanas so that she shows up as annoying as possible. I think the person who wrote up the resume (whoever it was) should also be considered highly annoying because of the following:
Why she might not be annoying
She is regarded as a hero of the feminist movement.
Her story inspired the 1996 film, ‘I Shot Andy Warhol.’
Yes, that’s right, shooting Andy Worhol and being a feminist hero are classed as reasons why she’s NOT annoying. Go figure. If I shot Germaine Greer, I wonder if women would see that as a reason to find me “not annoying”? Not that I actually would, of course. I’m just putting it out there as a hypothetical.
“I have also found it very difficult to get used to always having to take action and make decisions. Men are expected, forced rather, to be the active agents of society. If there is a problem, men are expected to take the initiative to solve it rather than seek help or advice or take advantage of social services… In straight relationships, the man is expected to approach the woman, initiate conversation, and move the relationship in the direction he wants it to go while simultaneously being extremely careful to monitor her unspoken cues to ensure he is not being rapey or creepy (and if he fails to correctly read those cues, he risks being put away in jail and raped himself).”
Hugely important this. In effect, men and women inhabit very different worlds, and it begins at birth. The vastly different ways in which men and women experience the world impact on how men’s and women’s brains are wired. In intelligence tests it was found that on average, men used 6.5 times as much grey matter (neurons) as women, and that women used 9 times as much white matter (glia) as men (Haier, et al. 2005). In our men’s rights adversity there is opportunity… the opportunity for a new kind of life science. And if we play our cards right, we could be at the cutting edge of it.
Haier, R J, R E Jung, R A Yeo, K Head, and M T Alkired. “The neuroanatomy of general intelligence: sex matters. NeuroImage, 25, 320-327.” NeuroImage 25 (2005): 320-327.
“In effect, men and women inhabit very different worlds, and it begins at birth.”
Though I do agree for the most part, I don’t think men and women necessarily “inhabit” different world, I just think we feel differently about the world we’re in and react to it differently(ex. the inherent differences).
Well yeah, to frame it more precisely, men and women develop male and female perspectives of their one culture. And there are many cultures, so every culture has a male and female way of viewing the world. These are big questions, and it is symptomatic of our zeitgeist that these questions are so alien to the dominant paradigm.
Thank you Steven for a rare glimpse of true empathy from someone in the unique position to understand the lived experience of being both a man and women in contemporary society. An empathy for both sexes that needs to be more widely understood.
Welcome aboard Steve! Great to have you!
Incredible story.
Wow, that was an amazing and insightful story.
I am compelled to ask you Steve (and I hope you take no disrespect from this) that knowing what you know now about men’s experience; would you still have undergone the mastectomies and hormone replacement therapies?
Thanks
I do admit that if I knew then what I know now, I probably would have tried harder to see if I could find a way to be happy as a woman and take advantage of female privilege before giving in to my physical dysphoria and transitioning.
I was raised in this post-feminist society to believe that women are oppressed and men are privileged, and so a loss of social privilege is not even something I took into consideration when I made the decision to transition. Now, of course, I really wish I had not been lied to so I could have made a more informed decision.
So I suppose the only regret I have is the realization that I am now trapped in the working world forever with no hope of a male significant other ever financially helping me or letting me be a stay-at-home parent. I no longer see being a housewife as the ultimate form of female oppression, but as a luxury and privilege not available to people without breasts.
Other than that, I am happy, because my body finally feels right.
I am happy to hear you say that. Remember there’s a lot going for us too, the camaraderie that you see on this website is typical of many male relationships and I hope you can experience that in your own life. Don’t let the woman get you down!
…So thank you for your considered response.
I just feel, yes FEEL a need to blurt something out here.
I have just gone through the completely spontaneous, unsolicited comments to this article, made by regulars who frequent this site and identify as MRAs. I also think about the fact that this article went through several reviews by managers here prior to posting, all of them supportive of the article, and of Steven’s inclusion in this community.
And then I think about every time I have seen feminists of both sexes portray the people of this movement, not only in the narrowest of racial, political, ideological and sexual terms, but also casting us into the homophobic, bigoted, hateful stereotypes reserved for those that would likely as not beat Steven to a pulp and leave him for dead in an alley.
All I can think to say to them is one thing.
Fuck off and die.
i second that emotion.
HEAR HEAR!
Believe me, the only people I have ever felt would beat me to death in an ally were the LGBT and feminist activists once they realized I was a heretic.
For example, on a recent Reddit response to this article, I was referred to as a “fucking shitlord” and a “privileged oppressive turd.” I’d like to believe I have a thick skin now but this was the kind of thing that landed me in that psych ward last summer.
To everyone here who responded with support: thank you so much, because it means a great deal to me.
LOL, that was at SRS, the retarded step kids of the internet’s retarded step kids.
Don’t let ‘em land you in a psyche ward, Steven. Let ‘em land you here with another article on this subject. You will find after a while that watching them turn their heads in 360′s while they projectile vomit green soup, just because you wrote an article, is a boatload of fucking fun.
Privileged? How? To have the right to write this article?
Oppressive? To whom? To the readers who don’t like this article?
Or are “privileged” and “oppressive” just synonyms for the word “man”?
“To everyone here who responded with support: thank you so much, because it means a great deal to me.”
No Steven, it means a great deal to US to have you here, more than you know. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.
How can you possibly come to any other conclusion?
I second this proposal of my esteemed colleague in the MRA.
As a straight male who has dated a few M2F transgender (pre and post op) women, I always laugh boldly when people call me homophobic.
Pardon the bluntness, but “I’ve had a female put her dick in my mouth, have you?” has always been an awesome shock-and-awe counter.
On a more serious note, I think part of the reason why our opponents paint us as homophobic / transphobic is because the typical MRA is actually a fairly staunch potential ally for anyone on the T end of the LGBT spectrum.
Think about it, with inference logic.
Who can a F2M turn to for help coping when he finds out that he’s inadvertently sacrificed several privileges and rights he didn’t know he had? The feminist community? No, they deny female privilege and male suffering, and view him as a gender traitor.
Who can a M2F turn to for help coping when she finds out that she’s not entitled to new gender privileges or gender rights that are traditionally ascribed to females, even though she has changed her gender? Feminists? No, they believe in female exclusive victimhood and male privilege, and view her as a gender spy.
Right there, by opposing feminism ideology, MRAs are already lined up to be greater allies to the T-people out there. Simply by being open minded and willing to embrace differences, we have the potential to “poach” transgendered people to our movement.
So naturally, since a radfem can’t stand to see us gaining strength from the communities they’ve neglected and hated upon, they instead spread lies about us in order to hopefully preemptively encourage people not to “change sides.”
The worldview mainstream feminism paints is “Us vs Them, and they hate your guts while we’re barely willing to tolerate you.”
The actual truth is, “Them vs Us, and they’re barely willing to tolerate you, while we’re willing to accept and support you as a fellow human, and believer of male rights.”
Just my two cents, but as someone who’s never had to hide my flings with trans-women on any MR board I’ve lurked – never even felt like it might be a necessary precaution.
The same level of honesty, I’ve never felt safe sharing in feminist safe spaces, even back when I was a member of that community. (In my defense, we all make stupid mistakes when we’re young.)
(Snipe Edit: Left a confusing dangling gender pronoun, whoops. “he didn’t know she had” just doesn’t read right.)
Much more than the T’s in the LGBT acronym soup the G’s are also natural allies, if not the original founders and members, of the MRM. Gay men are often the first to go their own way and have never really been first class members of the feminist movement. They have been the bastard step-children of feminists whose acceptance has more to do with avoiding the obvious appearance of hypocrisy and denying straight men a natural, and immensely powerful, ally than it ever did with actual sympathy or compassion for the unique issues that affected them. The first, and most trivial, sign of this is that L comes before G. In order to be fully feminist one must not only be female but also lesbian. You need not only be female yourself but only have sexual attraction to other females. Gay men then, are almost natural anti-feminists, being males who have no sexual attraction to females.
I was trying to think of a way to tie that in. See, we’ve got the G community for the most part, as you stated, but we have a hard time attracting the L community for similar reasons. I’ve never known for a B to care about gender politics one way or another, though, which is why I decided just to not mention the other three groups in the original sandwich (LGBT) since only one was particularly worth bringing up, and bringing it up would also bring up the phantom that opposes it.
question is, would you ever go back?
You show impressive courage in sharing such personal details about yourself and they make for a truly intriguing story on what its like to live both sides. Thanks for sharing this with us.
Steven,
You’ve written a great article. It has opened my heart and mind to the lives of others. It has also let into your life many brothers and sisters who are here for you as friends also.
This is a gripping account of a courageous journey. Thank you for sharing it, Mr Steven.
How typical that you outraged the lesbian bullies who have LGBT in an ideological deathgrip of radfem extremism. Your voluntary transition into ‘the enemy’ would have been perceived as the ultimate treachery. You sold your vagina for thirty pieces of male privilege. Those bigots get very biblical when it suits them.
Most of the men here would be very familiar with the experience of health care professionals sneering at them for seeking medical advice. I was a 21 year-old student when I became acutely aware of how little value is placed on the health and welfare of men by a society that falls over itself to help women.
I had become dangerously underweight because every time I ate, I got a debilitating migraine that could only be relieved by inducing vomiting. I had no idea what was happening to me and didn’t want to go to a doctor because I was embarrassed that they would think I was bulimic.
Of course, that is exactly what happened. I still remember the woman doctor glaring at me from behind her desk telling me that bulimia was a girl’s disease and I should behave like a man and go away “deal with it” (those were her exact words).
Keep in mind that she said this to an obviously terrified young man who was so thin that all his bones were sticking out. She knew my father had just died after battling cancer, which I mentioned because I assumed it was probably related. And that’s the ‘help’ I got.
What a fucking bitch.
My mother had been a loyal patient of her’s for years and was sure that she would help me. I’m sure she would have, if I han’t been a man. Whenever I tell this story to women, they always say that I should have complained. Complained to who? Another disdainful professional who was going to sneer at me and tell me to “deal with it” myself?
So, I did deal with it myself. I forced myself to eat increasingly larger amounts of food and just lay on my bed enduring the migraines until they subsided. It took a couple of months, but I was eventually restored to normal (well, Andybob normal). It all turned out OK, but, I could have had a brain tumor for all she knew – she didn’t even get out of her seat to examine me.
I’ve had other experiences, but they were less of a shock because I never again assumed that help would be waiting for me if I needed it. Perhaps the resourcefulness that men are required to develop is what feminists mistake for ‘male privilege.’
I certainly hope to read more of Mr Steven’s valuable perspective. Thankyou for this post.
Andybob…if I ever caught a medic in my local area treating anyone over a food related issue in that manner I would be considering a complaint to the GMC.
This is why I get the oddest set of phone calls from local Drs about diet related cases!
“I had become dangerously underweight because every time I ate, I got a debilitating migraine that could only be relieved by inducing vomiting. I had no idea what was happening to me and didn’t want to go to a doctor because I was embarrassed that they would think I was bulimic.
“Of course, that is exactly what happened. I still remember the woman doctor glaring at me from behind her desk telling me that bulimia was a girl’s disease and I should behave like a man and go away “deal with it” (those were her exact words).
“Keep in mind that she said this to an obviously terrified young man who was so thin that all his bones were sticking out. She knew my father had just died after battling cancer, which I mentioned because I assumed it was probably related. And that’s the ‘help’ I got.
“What a fucking bitch.”
‘Holy shit’ – was my first reaction.
‘Holy f-ing shit’ was my second.
Sounds like a public sector Medicare doctor. If you went private, doctors would bend over backwards to help you since they know the male patients more likely have the $ to spend.
Wow, andybob. I am moved by your story. I’m really sorry that you were treated so despicably.
“I’ve had other experiences, but they were less of a shock because I never again assumed that help would be waiting for me if I needed it. Perhaps the resourcefulness that men are required to develop is what feminists mistake for ‘male privilege.’”
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve found myself thinking the same thing, though not articulated as eloquently as you have put it. That’s just it. Necessity is what forces a person to gain skills. For instance, living on my own, I’ve learned to cook like a real pro. Why? Because I had no choice but to teach myself. I obviously couldn’t afford to eat out everyday, and I didn’t want to eat ramen noodles every night. Men are forced to become resourceful and fend for themselves because no one will pick up the slack for them if they don’t. Women are likelier to be conditioned to feel like independence is an option. Hence, why men are more prosperous than women. Fembots need to realize that not every discrepancy between the genders is due to discrimination.
“Whenever I tell this story to women, they always say that I should have complained. Complained to who? Another disdainful professional who was going to sneer at me and tell me to “deal with it” myself? ”
To the College of Physicians, or whatever sort of board of medical ethics you have in your country. What she did was seriously wrong and deserves a major slap down.
So many onions at “You’re a man, right? That crying is pathetic. Man up!”
I know that feel, even as a hetero male…
No, not “even” as a hetero male… *especially* as a hetero male. If you were a gay male, at least people would expect that you’d have a “feminine” side to be in touch with.
Thanks for the post Steven. I cried.
Wow, what a story,
Must be interesting, to see the world and experience it from both sides of the wall that divides all of our perspectives and opinions. Now if only the rest of the world could perform such a feat as you have comrade, then maybe we all could find some peace in this world.
Alas, however, I am probably only dreaming. Dreaming of a land where the wall of differences has been torn down and all live equal and honest and support each other with no contempt for the complementing gender.
Although dreams are not real, the ideas they generate are. This world was built on ideas, ideas feed our minds, and here at AVfM, it appears that I am not the only one possessed by a “radical notion.”
This is a great story/article, presenting the best of both worlds and as such has caused me to overdose on the red pill, so to speak. Now if only we could get a few of those feminists to take some testosterone and see what we see…
Well I’m sry for the silly shit you’ve had to put up with, im sure u see more clearly the side of society that most men have to live with, and like u said, a side of society that most women will never see (are incapable of seeing).
I have a couple of questions for you if you don’t mind:
Were you genuinely/actually “forced” to change, like you’ve stated?
And, if given the chance, knowing and retaining everything u know now, would you go back if you could?
I do feel I reached the point where I was so uncomfortable in my body and of the idea of me being a woman (which for some inexplicable reason always felt wrong), that I might have killed myself if transitioning was not an option. In this way I did feel “forced” to change, so to speak.
If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have tried a bit harder to find a way to live as a woman before changing my body.
Of course, nowadays I feel wonderfully comfortable in my body and it’s sometimes difficult to remember just how awful I felt before. If I inexplicably woke up with breasts again I’d probably sprint back to the surgeon’s office–not because I’d want to give up female privilege again, but because it would physically feel wrong to have them.
There is some scientific evidence that suggests transsexualism is, in fact, a physical condition rather than a social or psychological one, and my experience leads me to believe this theory wholeheartedly.
Welcome Steven.
It is great you are here.
Most people believe all MRAs are all white privileged heterosexual male arseholes.
I’m a gay man, one member of mralondon.org.
Being gay makes me no better than any other man white or brown. We have outspoken woman and people of every creed colour, sexuality and identity at AVFM and in the MRM worldwide.
The stereotype’s used against us wont last, and you help us greatly in this by being here. Your perspective on gender is a rich one, you have much to contribute.
Welcome again, – Rod.
Great read Steven!
Welcome to the fight:
Equal protection under the law for all.
Equal protection of government for all.
Your perspective means you will have little difficulty understanding the experiential differences between being a man and being a woman.
I wonder if you have any thoughts on legal and institutional discrimination against men (black letter law discrimination and grey letter law discrimination)? When you became a man, you lost a significant number of legal and institutional protections:
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Hi anj, and welcome to AVfM.
We have some strange expectations around here. Well, strange based on what your are likely accustomed to.
We tend to value rationale over simple proclamations. For instance, quoting something said by someone and just declaring it as “incorrect,” without even attempting a refutation, is sloppy, arrogant and intellectually vacant. Suggest you revise to show you put any thought into it, and to avoid sounding like an irate librarian.
Also, unless you represent all feminists, you have offered a similarly inept rebuttal to the idea that feminists don’t take men’s issues seriously.
Last, if feminism means (as you demonstrate with your rep-re-sent-in here) that your idea of discourse is to waltz into a discussion with this kind of entitlement flatulence, expecting to be taken seriously, then I agree. You are indicative of most every feminist I have encountered.
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anj,
you want to know where that statement is true.
Read the whole aVfM website. Seriously.
Every last word.
That statement you seem to think doesn’t exist is all over it from day one.
It is the lived experience of everyone bar the odd feminist fruit fly who trolled in here to stir shit.
You may as well go to a black community and tell them they’ve never experienced racism and you take black issues very seriously.
(Hand smacks forehead)
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Are you kidding me, anj? Google “male privilege” and scores of blogs and articles written by feminists claiming about how men have it so much easier than women come up. I rest my case.
OK, this is the part where I first point out that you came in here making statements with no proof at all (see your above quote) and how hypocritical it is that you continue to demand evidence when you won’t first provide it for your assertions. So kindly check your privilege.
Next comes the part where I LOL and seek clarification that you are seriously asking that question, followed by your insistence that you are very serious indeed, to which I say the following:
The whole concept of male privilege is predicated on things being easier on men than women, or had you not noticed?
That is what so much of very, very common feminist doctrine and falsehoods are about.
It is the false wage gap, asserting it is easier for men to make a living and be upwardly mobile at work than it is for women.
It is rape hysteria and they phony concoction of a rape culture asserting it is easier for men to be safer and more secure in their person than women when every crime statistic known to man screams bullshit to that.
It is the feminist inspired absence of services for male victims of domestic abuse and their children because abuse from women does not really hurt anyone; that men protecting themselves and their children is easier when it is not, especially in a culture that denies they even exist as victims.
It is in every entitlement program for college, designed for women only, when they already represent the great majority of college graduates, and while men are falling further and further behind. Surely this implies women have it harder and need the help more than men?
It is even goddam Hillary Clinton out there speaking in public telling the whopper that women are the real victims of combat, not the men blown to pieces on the battlefield.
This is where I tell you that if you cannot find this idea anywhere in feminist political activism or dogma that you must not be looking. or that indeed you are looking the other way on purpose so as to avoid the cognitive dissonance.
And in most circumstances this is where you totally avoid every example I just listed and move on to tell me how patriarchy hurts men, too, and how all these problems are from patriarchy. and that feminists, just like you. are working on the solution if only everyone would get on board.
And that is pretty much where I call the same bullshit that I started out calling, pointing to the fact that “patriarchy hurts men, too” is transparent fucking code speak for “do more for women and pretend it is helping men.”
And it is where I tell you that you are just as clueless as to what men’s issues are as Steven was till he walked for a while in those shoes and saw through the bullshit of people like you.
And that is where you say nothing different than you came in here with, which is that I don’t understand feminism, even though I understand it better than you do.
Which takes us to the dead end that “debating” with people like you always ends up in.
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anj,
If you agree with those points, then have the honesty to admit they reflect an attitude that men do not need help because they are privileged. e.g. because things are easier on them.
I will wait for that before I will bother re-explaining what I have already stated.
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anj,
Do fuck off. All you are doing here is making unsupported declarations. Meanwhile, you avoid taking on points that are put to you directly and honestly. You’re a disingenuous, intellectual coward and I won’t waste another keystroke letting you take me in a circle. But I will leave you with a suggestion. We have a forum supported by this site. There is a section there for feminists, called The Broken Record. Go there and make crow all you want. Perhaps some of the less experienced MRAs will waste their time trying to reason with you.
http://forums.avoiceformen.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=60
Whoops, that up vote for Anj’s last comment is meant to be a down vote.
@ Turbo
Write it off to AA.
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Oh no, whatever you do, anj, please don’t go!
@anj: No intellectual feminist would state that a particular man, such as Steven is guaranteed to have an easier time than any given woman
Did you know that “It is perhaps more dangerous to be a woman, than a soldier in an armed conflict”? “Wars are being fought on the bodies of women and children”? “Sexual violence is the monstrosity of our century”?
UN Action Public Service Announcement – Stop Rape Now
coward
“Be a man.”
I think, therefore I am.
I think it’s worth questioning your credentials as a feminist, you may simply be posing and disingenuous. There is at least 27 different kinds of feminism, if you are one you would know this, please identify yourself. If you don’t know this maybe you should start reading.
I wonder if feminism should start developing secret handshakes to identify different ideologues.
Fist bump, over under, slow draw, slap, wiggle fingers, snap fingers.
“Oh, so you’re a patriarchy hurts men, women are the real victims always, lolz wut about the menz?, 10% male population is best, equal outcomes not opportunities feminist, too?”
Knuckle roll.
“Oh, but you believe sometimes a woman can be drunk and consent? Pfff, not a real feminist, are you?”
Thank you, Steven, for this fascinating article. I’ve always been curious to hear the perspectives of those who have been on both sides of the fence, as you put it, but until now I’ve only had the opportunity to hear the perspectives of male-to-female transsexuals.
There’s just one sentence in this article to which I’d like to respond. You wrote: ” He’s supposed to be strong and capable, all the time, or else he’s useless and might as well not exist (just like an older, unattractive and overweight woman is seen as useless).”
I’ll grant that an older, unattractive, and overweight woman is generally seen as useless for the purpose of being a sex object (although you might be surprised at the strange fetishes some guys have). However, I’m sure you have noticed men instinctively holding doors for such women and government and social support services being much more readily available for them. My point here is that such women, while no longer seen as having any sexual utility, are still seen as worthwhile human beings deserving of support in a way that “useless” men seldom are.
anj,
You want a link to show where feminism touts that ““male privilege guarantees that he has it so much easier than women”?
WTF?
And you reckon I’m the one holding up a strawman argument. (hand smacks forehead for second time).
Listen, that sentence above in inverted commas about male privilege guaranteeing that he has it so much easier than women IS feminism in a nutshell.
Duh!
I think you seem to be suffering under the illusion that somehow feminism is pro-male. I reckon you should admit it definitely isn’t or drop the feminism handle. You can’t have it both ways.
Oh wait, you’re really a woman right?
If so maybe under gynocentric mores you would expect to have it both ways unquestioned.
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how about you actually look at what feminism out side the 1920′s and such years ( intel suggests it switches at the 60′s) has actually done. the feminists today are all for gaining things for women and could care less about men. you may not have to read every word but at least look at a few articles and some of the videos so you can stop being a delusional “insert whatever you like here”
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if you cared, you would stop calling yourself a feminist. humanitarian might be a better fit. or what i like to call an equalist. aside from female MRA’s, this is the term i now use to describe women that want to truly set the bars equal and are more closely related to MRA’s than they are to feminism. an example of this would be the person who wrote an article about exposing the true numbers of male rape in areas like Uganda or the Congo, which was linked to this site on an earlier article. i’ll have to see which one though, as i don’t directly remember. i point this out mostly because i believe the author is a woman, though i need to double check. if anyone knows about said article, feel free to add in the missing info
Really? Y’all sure have a strange way of showing it. Every male issue when discussed by feminists simply gets hijacked and turned into an attack on women somehow. Check out Miriam Pollack’s writings on male circ if you don’t believe me, or Hillary Clinton’s delusion quote “women are the primary victims of war. They lose their husbands, sons, and brothers.”
You’re right, feminists care very much about men. That is, the men that are willing to be appliances for them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_privilege
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/faq-what-is-male-privilege/
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/
There are your link. Kindly shut the hell up and get the fuck out already
Anj, I’ve stood where you stand.
I’m no longer comfortable with the feminist label, and use “gender equalist” but also count myself as an MRA as much of my activism is based on men’s issues.
Feminism has been hijacked by a philosophy of entitlement without responsibility and perpetual victimhood. I’m an adult with agency, so I’m willing to be responsible for my actions and although I could claim victim status, I prefer ‘survivor’ as it emphasises I’ve used my agency to overcome problems
TLS: The author was Will Storr of the Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men
This may be another article concerning the same issues of male rape in the Congo. Please read it.
Awesome piece.
Every time I hear Not All Feminists Are Like That. I just want to tell them,” Show me the proof. Show me that not all feminists are like that. And I might just believe you.” Because all I see is talk and talk is cheap.
Wow! What a nerve.
anj should check her own shit-stirring trolling privilege by asking herself this -
Where, any-fucking-where literally on the entire blessed planet is there a feminist funded and run shelter for men? a feminist funded and run support center for male students? support for male victims of female abuse? a feminist program to aid men who have been genitally mutilated? shattered in wars? for guys alienated from their kids? falsely accused and imprisoned unjustly for ‘rape’ or domestic violence?
BTW the list in that last sentence isn’t exhaustive. Those are just SOME of men’s issues which came immediately to mind.
We, with our heads screwed on straight already know the answer to that question – ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE.
Now, I very rarely used blunt swearing online, but I have to echo Paul’s sentiments here to anj – Just fuck off with your arrogant shit stirring nonsense!
I’ve been waiting for a transgendered individual to write such an article. Well done!
Greatly appreciate the article Steven, your experience and hardship elevates the value of your humanity and it’s insight. Sharing it is like breaking bread, thank you for the meal.
My Dearest Beloveds,
Looking over anj’s posts and claims it is becoming clear to me that anj IS a lot like Steven WAS before Steven’s eyes were opened to the nature of being a man and the struggles that this entails.
When the scales fell from his eyes, Steven learned a painful lesson; anj doesn’t even get that there might be such a lesson to be learned at all.
It is possible that anj is expecting that the men here will leap to her aid (as men have always done for her) and that she has never had to face her own failures and weaknesses with nothing more than her own actual skills to protect her.
anj, here, women are expected to take personal responsibility for their own words and arguments – just like men.
There is no chorus of enslaved men watching out for you here – we are men who are freeing themselves from the crazy expectations that women and society place on us. Shocking, but true.
There is no throng of women shouting down men here – their minds literally cannot process the idea that some men can grow beyond their ability to control. You are on your own here, to sink or swim, on your own merit, or lack thereof.
There is no Leonardo Dicaprio sacrificing himself to die in an icy sea to save your ass, however cold, naked and butthurt it might be without him.
Steven took an awful beating becoming male – a beating that no one ever warned him about, and it is a universal beating that no man deserves. We celebrate Steven for his courage, his honesty, his skills, and the deep insights he learned from his unique perspective. We are grateful to Steven for daring to share his experiences with us.
anj, do you have courage? Honesty? Skills? Insight?
If so, prove it – let us hear and see them.
And good luck with that. We respect women so much that we expect much more from women than anyone has ever challenged them to DO before.
If that scares you, then by all means, flee. Now.
And that is what the Bibo Sez.
Bless you!
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If “No it’s not” with nothing to back up your claim and “fuck off” is all you have to offer,
Be Gone Troll.
You may impress yourself but, no one else is buying your polished turd.
A lovely offer, anj, but I must decline.
May the Goddess bless your vibrator with eternal life.
A truly wonderful article Steven. What is also wonderful is the shit tornado occurring on the internet in response to your article. I have never seen so many LGBT and feminists so beside themselves with guilt, anger, and outright malevolence. The true colors are being seen and they ain’t the color of a rainbow.
Yes. And they have no better way to refute it other than, ‘The author misinterprets feminism,’ or, ‘The problem is traditional gender roles – solution: more feminism!’ There is a refusal to acknowledge what mainstream feminism is really about, or the fallibility of its ideology. Nevertheless, I reckon this article must have got some of them thinking at least, and that is a very good thing.
It’s rather frightening how angry people are getting on Reddit–I’ve always wanted to be tough but in fact I’ve never been a violent person and it’s hard not to feel a little bit scared.
Many transgender activists hold up signs that say “die cis scum” at their rallies (when I criticized this they said my disapproval of violence was a sign of my “privilege”) so they clearly have no problem with murdering people who disagree with them.
Not that I’m scared of being murdered, just that the thought that so many folks hate me now, and not just the cliquey folks at my college, but folks all over the Internet, is enough to make me tremble slightly.
So many people (falsely) accuse MRAs of being misogynists and are extremely hateful towards everyone who supports the movement. How does everyone deal with such accusations? Being a misogynist (or a bigot, etc.) is a terrible thing, and it must feel awful to have so many people insisting you are such a thing.
Steven, it sucks doesn’t it?
It’s the worst bit about opening yourself up to the world.
I’ve got a few years on you age wise and have learned to accept that most of it is hot air, but that equally, if I’m feeling distressed by it, I chose not to read it.
Sending you a PM in the forum if you need a listening ear.
Just my experience, not speaking for everyone.
Growing up as a male you learn to deal with these things completely on your own because, as you’ve learned, any degree of reliance on others is shunned. You have a few options but likely you’ll be choosing a combination.
Analyze:
You know these people don’t hate you personally because they don’t know you personally. They may have read some of your experiences but that’s a small sample of the whole that you are.
They only hate your view on gender experience and likely hate it because it conflicts with their own ideology. Their doctrine hasn’t taught them how to react to these claims with anything other than anger and dismissal. You are now expected to -
Internalize:
You know that you don’t hate women. You know that you’re an MRA because you’ve seen that men have problems that are being ignored by the majority of society.
If you’re confident that you’ve come to this conclusion (applies to any conclusion, not just MRA) through objective, informed, and open minded means then you can find some comfort in your convictions. Make sure to check your positions on issues when they’re legitimately challenged by evidence so that you know you’re not being fooled.
In this way you can have some measure of assurance that you’re doing what you perceive as ‘right’. You will find some people that will tell you ‘you’re doing the right thing’ or some alternative, but now you’re expected to be strong in your own sense of self rather than finding comfort in other peoples agreement.
Non-ideal outcome:
If you understand your own convictions and the reasoning behind them you have a better ability to deal with adversity by shrugging it off. This relates to the idea of ‘being a man’ and ‘manning up’ in that you’re expected to just take it and move on. Often this will leave you grappling with problems internally which isn’t ideal but it’s something everyone does.
Eventually you become desensitized and the process becomes easier. You might come to the same conclusion as I did; that feelings and emotions aren’t reliable or very important and your thoughts alone are much better at determining your sense of self.
In this way a born male has it easier than you do because we’ve been able to swim out to the deep end throughout our lives.
Ideal outcome:
Pretty simple idea of just letting it go. Take whatever troubles you, understand the emotional effect it has, then let the emotions pass. Try to understand that although you feel sad you are not the sadness you feel, you’re just experiencing sadness. Replace ‘sad’ with anything else that can cause suffering.
I think it’s pretty much the Zen way of dealing with emotions but I’m not sure since I know little about it.
Well that ended up long and filled with baseless opinions but that’s what I’ve grown up to be as a male in Australia, I’m sure behavior changes based on the society you live in. It’s not like we’re sat down and taught to do this but this is the sense I’ve made of the whole ‘man up’ crap we’re fed.
Thanks for writing your article. It was interesting to read your views and I hope you’ll write some more if you feel the urge.
Thank you so much; this is very valuable advice that I wish I’d been given long ago!
It’s great advice, much of this is mindfulness training
Good article Steven and welcome to AVfM. We’re glad you survived your trials with your sanity intact, now you can seize control of your own life and live how you wish, not how others force you to be.
How ironic that a FtM guy can say all my thoughts better than I can even think them.
Welcome aboard Steven. Great article. Glad you found the truth, that the true gender equality promoters are right here. Feminists have no desire for such equality.
“I do NOT expect this to happen FUCK YOU”
Here I come to save the Daaaayyyyy! Stop picking on it, it has a vagina and you will show it the respect it’s entitled too!! Just love it when feminists go slumming!!
and when they get screechy.
This article reminded me of this, and many other similar ones I’ve read: http://skepchick.org/2011/12/sacrificing-privilege/
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to proof Steven’s experiences to be wrong in any way. This was truly a fascinating blog post, and handled a very interesting subject which I haven’t unfortunately had an opportunity to read about that many times before. It just seems like even those who have been both sexes can’t have truly unbiased opinions about gender issues. The problems of the side where they transition to always seem to be the worse, and the side where they started is the one that gets off easy. I think that’s because gender issues touch all of us, and this is really just a matter of perspective. It is easier to point out flaws in everything when you have something to compare it to.
And no, I’m not a feminist. Like I said, gender issues touch both of us, and most of them are just two sides of the same coin. Blaming it all on patriarchy and misogyny isn’t going to help anything and men’s rights have just as much, if not even more, value in our society. (I like to scare people with my leg hair, though. That probably makes me look like a feminist.)
Like I said earlier, great post. Thank you, Steven.
That link seems to be trollbait. There are a few worthwhile points but the biggest problem I have is that it centres around ‘privilege’.
Privilege is such a nebulous term. Privileges are mentioned everywhere but what do they explicitly refer to?
Universal human privileges compared to other lifeforms, or other primates? Is the opposable thumb a privilege that we should check for when we deal with other animals?
Or how about race privilege? My white ancestors slogged through hard times in world wars and started lives in a brand new country across the world to see me to where I am today. Am I to discard all their hard work because someone else’s ancestors evidently didn’t put in the same effort or were unsuccessful in their efforts? Am I responsible for what my ancestors did? Should I begrudge others who are more successful than me?
Now the biggie, male privilege.
“..The experiences of trans men in the workplace, and how they noticed that they were taken more seriously, were listened to with greater interest, and felt more respected after transition”
“When someone claims “Women have it way easier than guys”, I get to confidently say, “No, we don’t”. And I have something pretty substantial to base that on.”
“But nonetheless, male privilege ends up being something very real and very concrete for me. Something specific and palpable, that was there and then it wasn’t. I’m able to point to specific advantages I used to have that I no longer get to enjoy, and specific ways my life is different now as a woman.”
The author Natalie is lamenting what they had when she seems to fail to realise what she’s taken on.
A man will most likely have no one admiring their body publicly unless they’re a) a celebrity b) a bodybuilder of a sort. When you make that adjustment to become a female where all of a sudden people notice you then of course you will feel uncomfortable. Its part of the anatomical change. Men are wired to notice women and they’re also socially encouraged to by other men…. AND WOMEN.
Women have exploited this for ages (literally) and while it may be hard to cope for this individual since she did not develop into the role over puberty, its hardly appropriate to complain when she no longer has to take on the responsibility of initiating relationships.
If she wants to be a FGTOW, then fine, abstain from the deal. But wearing revealing clothing such as “…And once (cat called) four times over the course of a single particularly hot August day when I chose to wear a slinky spaghetti-strap dress without a cardigan or jacket” shows the depths of her ignorance if she is not seeking sexual intimacy.
The man wearing tight jeans showing the shape of his penis and singlet revealing torso & biceps is the closest male equivalent I can think of. There’s a special kind of guy that does that, guess what his objective is.
As you say Pantsuman, gender issues touch both of us. We should not remain ignorant about what goes on around us.
Thanks for the post.
Can we have more of this please.
I find much of the writing on this site is very much in keeping with the non-factual, emotional harpies of feminism so many of you denigrate.
This is one of the very few, educated, well written, factual pieces I’ve read on this site.
Frankly (as a woman) I think they men’s movement is so small (in comparison to the women’s movement) that you can’t afford negative impact. You must be above reproach until you have more of a footing. (often the way with any smaller group).
There needs to be more of this kind of writing for you to be taken seriously and actually achieve anything like equality.
I could stand up and cheer for this article.
There is hope for equality while people can write like this.
I would suggest that you read more articles here before jumping to such conclusions, but thanks for the kind words and suggestions. Maybe one day we’ll have enough traffic to matter.
“Frankly (as a woman) I think they men’s movement is so small (in comparison to the women’s movement) that you can’t afford negative impact.”
Every time we are blessed with “as a woman” I laugh, think WTF and wonder if perhaps this person can have opinions or can be a subject matter expert as a human being rather than by their genitalia.
Her opinions stand on their own, but since the topic is gender, she happens to have let us know which is hers. No need to get snarky about it.
That’s some good, positive feedback. Thanks.
Completely agree with your praise of this article. An excellent piece by Steven.
Totally disagree with the rest of your comment.
This site is choc full of educated, well written, factual pieces, written by the many talented contributors. Also, the MHRM is growing and gaining a stronger footing every day, without asking permission from anyone, thanks in large part to this site which you seem to be so negative about.
Negative impact means we are being heard, and those who oppose us do not what like they are hearing.
@Dean Esmay articles read – opinion upheld.
This one is considered and well written article that others could learn from in terms of content & style.
IMHO even on a site that has so many – every article matters.
Well you be sure to let us know of any other articles that get your seal of approval, OK?
L-cakes, why not write something yourself? You will get plenty of opinion and feedback in the process and after publishing