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Why I’m a Men’s Rights Activist now

I am coming out of the closet. Yep. Like many, it took me a long time to come to peace with it, years of soul-searching and introspection. But now I have come out to myself and to the world, and I feel like a weight has been taken off my chest. I am a men’s rights activist.

Growing up in the cradle of western feminism, the Upper West Side of New York City, and attending enlightened and well-funded public schools (where as kids we labored over the guilt-inducing importance of the failed Equal Rights Amendment), I was raised to be a feminist. A full-blown—male—feminist. While I never advocated a policy of feminism, I am indeed the product of it. A complete product of it. I had brilliant female teachers who advocated feminism. I shared co-ed classrooms with brilliant young girls whom I admired, whose intelligence I wished I could emulate. We wrote papers on the first female Supreme Court Jurist, Sandra Day O’Connor. While Dad turned me on to the Yankees, Mom took me to the ballet and exposed me to her interests: The Met, Lincoln Center, refined stuff, etc. Mom worked; she was an accomplished full-time educator raising two boys along with my father in our nuclear family. Our synagogues were egalitarian.

Never was I exposed to any messages that specifically reduced women or girls. That was just philistine! Any suggestion that women were on their own merits inferior to men would have been met with rejection and ridicule. Looking back on this indoctrination now, I see a lot of mixed messages.

See, radical feminism exploits the natural confidence of young boys. It seizes boys’ engrained disposition that girls are separate and it guilts them. Yes, girls are separate from boys, aren’t they? Us boys are taught from a young age that girls are indeed separate. We are taught to be gentle with girls, not rough-house with them, to treat them as ladies, to defer to their feelings, to please them. Young boys are taught to exalt girls. Boys are the dirty ones who ride bikes and fight over a touchdown. Girls are sugar and spice and everything nice. Then, BAM! We enter adolescence and we are told that girls are oppressed, sidelined, overlooked, victimized by some boogie-man patriarchy. What the hell just happened? First I was trained to separate and elevate them, to regard them as fully equals. Now they are ringing the bell of cosmic victimization. Did I miss something?

I finally became acquainted with radical feminist policy when my role as a father was legally shattered. Enter adultery by my wife, followed by an allegation of invisible domestic violence. Jon’s life, over. No proof of a crime. Whatever one thinks of my character, (fine, I am obviously scum), let’s assume the worst of me, for argument’s sake. The crucial point is that without a shred of proof, but with complaints spoken by an admitted and exposed adulterer, my life was ruined. Where are the witnesses? The hospital record? The photos? The police reports? None to be found. This low threshold of “proof” raises the obvious constitutional question about the role of the state. Should the state be so reactive that fathers are removed from children because of the words of a hysterical and adulterous woman who, as a person with the sudden liability of abandoning the marriage, has an interest in my removal? I cannot think of a more tragic sexist policy. And with this I was removed from my children, my home, my clothes, my heirlooms, my photos, my books. My whole life.

The state’s mobilization to remove me was the result of the Radical Feminist Legal Complex.

Look, I get it. If a dude hits his wife, charge him. Take him down. Felony. Existing statutes provide for this. But this dilemma is far more insidious. Apparently, New York operates along the thought-crime-like premise that domestic violence need not be “violent”—a concept at war with language and reason, as Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia recently wrote. New York entertains something called implied violence. It is absurdia infinitum. My adulterous wife conveniently claimed fear of me. This is violence to New York.

Since that day in September 2010, I have been to hell and back. Every participant in the systemic process has responded to my pleas with an apathy the likes of which I never thought could exist in a government to which I paid taxed, that once employed me, whose military I was prepared to join, whose public universities educated me. I am viewed differently now. As farm dung that fertilizes a massive—MASSIVE!—governmental process. There is an unmatched zeal “to get me”:  law enforcement, DAs, judges, court-appointed psychologists, attorneys ad litim—all shielded with immunity.

Today I have a new education to boast. I now know of VAWA, child support, orders of protection available like condoms at the health center, the Duluth model of domestic violence re-education theories, a complicit legal guild, Title IX, Title IV-D, university sexism, a consumer culture that mocks dads, prison, etc. There is an endless horizon of sexual-politics, radical-feminism policies that are reshaping every sense about manhood and fatherhood with which I was raised to see as proper and good. And took as holy. How stupid, right?

And I also learned something else: I am hated. Hated. Yes. I am hated. I get no presumption of favor—ever. The more I seek to remain a dad, the more I am told I am “angry” and thus unfit. The state is deaf to me and to what it does to me. I am also painfully alone.

I have tried to get my story out to every media outlet I can think of. I have found no support anywhere in my fight to be a father. Seems only fellow dads care about dads. Lawyers want money. Cops sneer or arrest. Legislatures are insanely politicized, as are judiciaries. Most dads’ groups are seen as “reactive” and “unfocused.” The silence of unavailable resources tortures me.

All of this is the result of a social/legal policy informed by vengeful radical feminist ideology, one that seeks to swing with a hammer than to extract with a tweezer.

Look, I am a lot of things: a loving father is paramount. The last thing I wanted is to be “that guy,” embittered and ranting about feminism. I just cannot figure out when I became such a bad guy.

So why am I now a men’s rights activist? My children. These policies keep me from them. I love them. They need me. And I need them. If this is a bad impulse, I am nothing.

Feature image by Ville Hyvönen

About Jonathan Bornstein

Jonathan Bornstein is a life-long resident of New York City. He spent many years as a High School educator; he has since fled to the private sector. His greatest role was and remain as a Dad. Since 2010 he has been victimized by the Bronx IDV Court and the state's oppressive and persecutorial policies that keep him alienated from his two children, Aaron and Lillianne.

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  • SpotOn73

    I’m here in England and really feel for you as everything you say rings true. The root of all of the issues is the allegation having to be taken seriously – no evidence needed, just a quiet word with those white knight cops – “yes ma’am”! Those fucking hypocrites – strong independent women, first thing they do is run to a group of men with weapons in uniform and lie. I’m sorry for you mate.
    The issue is that we let this creep up, slowly, insidiously, inevitably. We sat in our armchairs and wheezed out a “What the fuck….” when we saw this in the paper or the TV. As a group we were inert. We whispered to each other near the water cooler and shut up if a woman or boss approached. We never said ‘enough is enough’. Dazzled by young female bodies we lived in the moment, hoping it would be the other guy who got sacked or dumped. Maybe we even threw him under a bus in the hope of being the good guy who’d get the kiss and the sex to send us off to sleep peacefully for once.
    I haven’t seen the full Paul Elam / Matt Binder vid. I know at the end the kid points out we haven’t gone on demos. No banners or marches.
    We’re changing – a little. We’re starting. Maybe we’re regrowing our backbone, just a bit, remember when we’d argue for two hours as adolescents for something we absolutely believed in? Maybe the screen-based stuff has shifted, morphed into speech in the real world – the Detroit conference was a bloody good start. When a feminist appeaser friend was in front of me I called him a ‘disengaging prick’. It felt good and he took it.
    Jonathan, you’re in the right place. Find 2 or 3 good men near you. If you find a douchebag or nutter, let them go in the first ten minutes. You only need 2 or 3 and be selective. Talk to your local cops and politicians as a group. This is a good place to start. You’ve touched me across the miles.

    • 2cyar

      “I know at the end the kid points out we haven’t gone on demos. No banners or marches.”

      At some point we will have to progress to marches and protests…the MHRM is still trying to coax people out of the closet. It’s not easy as there is a very real fear of retribution from entrenched ideologues. Maybe we can incorporate a march into the next conference agenda (assuming this doesn’t discourage anyone from attending?)

      • SpotOn73

        Agree with the premise of concern, however if the march is for charitable causes e.g. raising funds for homeless men, who could be against us?

    • mramra

      Spot on! Your first paragraph is very well written and sums it up. Your nick – nomen est omen :D

  • Nate Jones

    It’s easier to come out of the closet when there’s nothing left in there. Kind of like that scene in V for Vendetta when V interrogates and tortures Evee for weeks or months or whatever until she’s reduced to her strong central core where she fears nothing.

    Of course most people are destroyed by that treatment, not refined by it. Because the process is there to destroy men, not strengthen them, and those who actually do come out of it stronger are the admirable exception, not the rule.

    I watched a loved one go through this with all the horrific similarities, and somehow he’s come out of it functional and still determined to learn and grow and hope for things. I literally don’t think I’d be strong enough to survive that. I want to see change so men don’t have to face the option of coming out stronger from what should be a good and desirable thing in spite of the horrific abuse, or being utterly broken by it.

    Because that’s a bullshit situation.

    • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

      ‘V’ resonates strongly with me too. Let the pain wash over you, cry, set your mind free… and your ass will follow. “That which does not kill him makes him stronger.”

      Having said that, after multiple operations over the years for my sins as a biker lunatic and kidney stones (my doctor said the pain is worse than giving birth), I have never felt such pain as when they took my children away from me and me away from my children. …and not a day goes by without a pang. A powerful crucible.

      Destroyed? Among other things, as far as possible I avoid activities that result in the payment of tax and support the systems oppression of men and boys, some see this as dysfunctional behaviour, of course it is very logical and actually functional (with a little help from my friends).

      It’s all in the mind. There is a choice between allowing ones own destruction and allowing/accepting ones own change. No?

  • PlainOldTruth

    You and I live in an Occupied Zone. Fatherhood must be destroyed, the central tenet of cultural marxism, whose adherents I have watched first-hand (and at very close range) take the system stage by stage, following a blueprint designed at UC La Jolla. It was not designed by women to serve women. It was designed to liberate everybody from the oppressive influence of fatherhood: “Väter rauss!” Just because the war against Western civilization (so stated by Marcuse) was an psyops and information war, executed incrementally, it does not mean it was not a war. — Resistance is mandatory, vigorous, tireless, goal-driven resistance.

    • Kevin Hornbuckle

      Would you provide a citation for the Marcuse reference, please. I’d like to look it up.

  • Blue Phoenix

    Snap.

    I walked out my front door to provide for my family one morning 7 years ago and a month later it was gone. Wife. Son. Dog. In the intervening months I lost my home, business and health (the stress put paid to me ever becoming a father again without medical intervention). I was bankrupted. I was threatened with arrest. I went to court. During the court fight my son was moved without my consent 300 miles from where his maternal and paternal families lived to an area so his mother could play happy families with the man she had left me for (who she taught my son to call me `Daddy’). So I moved to…and lost contact with most of my friends and was also a long way from my family.

    Before this? I paid my bills, had not so much as a parking or speeding ticket and thought that while there were indeed some bad results in court, etc. that the justice system in this country was essentially a health animal.

    I lost friends for being an `extremist’. I was told to move on from my son/calm down/that I just had a bad experience/was a misogynist.

    Now I work in the Family Courts assisting others who are in the same boat. It’s a tidal wave. Many dads fall at the first post when they realise the horror of what they are going to have to face in their bid to stay in their child’s life (which will inevitably be long, painful, expensive and not guaranteed). Of the ones who do fight, the experience is too much for them and they leave shell shocked.

    The final group are the ones who refuse to give up no matter what. They are the ones who go to court and expect to be mauled by solicitors, barristers, judges, CAFCASS officers, Social Workers and the rest of the employees of the Family Law industry in the UK.

    If I could offer just one piece of advice it would be this: Never give up. No matter what. Be a millstone around the neck of those who are trying to stop you being part of your kids’ lives.

  • sputnik

    Welcome — I dunno; is that the right word? — Jonathan;

    I, too, chafe at the idea of identifying myself with a movement or an acronym — especially a movement that is not popularly well-regarded — but it is what it is; and so it must be, for, in the not-too-long run, it WILL be popularly well-regarded because we have right on our side, and we ARE making progress. I, too, am an MHRA, active sort of, insofar as I comment profusely. I may write. I need to find others in my area and do some active activism. I stood on the shores of lake St. Clair at the end of June, mostly just to be there. That was very, very good. Bust your ass, if necessary, to be at the next conference.

    I was divorced in ’91, and I “got off light”. Light physical abuse, heavy verbal abuse, the latter being nothing to me by that point in the marriage. But if I hadn’t been living just a few miles from the house in which I grew up, I have no idea what I would have done; I would have had no relationship with my daughter; now that she’s a tween, we’re estranged anyhow, as a result of years of parental alienation that she can’t even perceive.

    Yes, I’m that guy that lived in his mother’s basement for a while. But it was a nice finished basement, as if designed for the very purpose, with a movable accordion wall for a bedroom area, on a sloping lot such that it had a ground level walkout into a backyard bordered by a densely wooded ravine, so, cheers. And my ex relied on my mother for much child-care assistance, so I saw a lot of my daughter. Cheers again.

    But the experience was radically life-altering, nonetheless.

    The child support burden was light, and for whatever reason, the ex suddenly became more civil about eight months after the divorce, but there was a period of almost two years that I had to live with the fact that if she was insane enough to engage in abusive behaviors, she was quite possibly insane enough to lodge a false allegation. I know stress, believe me. And still, I got off light.

    As I was working two jobs, and trying to make time to be Dad, I quickly realized that there would be no second marriage; I had no time for so much as a relationship on the side. And then fate dropped Ms. Right into my lap in the person of the mother of my daughter’s best friend. The extent to which our interests and experiences were congruent and profoundly shared was unbelievable: classical music, classical poetry and fine literature in general, motorcycles, marital abuse, and our daughters. But she, too, was insane. Intimacy turned her to icky, inexplicable grief, the sort of reaction that nowadays is taken to represent some sort of lack of “enthusiastic consent” up front. And then she admitted to thirteen years of highly promiscuous runnin’ around on her first husband. So I backed away.

    And lo and behold, then one day, there she was, offering me— sex again? It was a textbook date-rape sort of scenario. And she knew how I felt about her, because I’d been very forthright on the approach, so this was about the most callous treatment I’d ever experienced in this department, or any other department, for that matter. That was the end of something…

    Thus, ever since, I have also been a confirmed MGTOW. (Damned acronyms!) It’s a state of mind not without its dissatisfactions, but not without a peculiar satisfaction in the sense of personal integrity and inner sanctity to be derived from it, entirely without bitterness. And if that was twenty years ago, now, I found nothing on the internet then that suggested itself to me as a viable men’s movement. It was just within the last ten months or so that I discovered AVfM, and as much as I hate to admit it, MGTOW nails my ass to the letter. Funny, that.

    There is a Hopi Indian word that served as the title of a movie in the early eighties: koyanisqaatsi, meaning “a situation so out of balance that it cannot continue”. Hello?

    Thank you for being there, and being here: for communicating, and having the perspicacity to get on board.

  • Andybob

    “The more I seek to remain a dad, the more I am told I am “angry” and thus unfit.” Jonathan Bornstein

    Anger is not only an acceptable response to injustice, it is the only responsible one. This is one of the most incisively devastating rejoinders – provided by one of the contributors to “A Voice for Men’ – to use against anyone who attempts to silence a man who dares to speak for himself about his experiences. This is especially true when those experiences are the result of the systemic misandry which is so deeply ingrained throughout institutions which many wrongly assume are designed to protect our civil, legal, social and parental rights.

    Mr Bornstein describes his evolution as a MHRA as a series of shocks to his belief systems, some of which were indoctrinated in him for ostensibly altruistic reasons. Perhaps the most resounding shock is when one realizes that most of those belief systems were indoctrinated for everyone’s benefit but one’s own. No-one has this bitter part of the red pill shoved down their throats more violently than fathers fighting for shared child custody with vengeful ex-wives.

    Mr SpotOn73 gives very sound advice by suggesting that these fathers keep a few good men near them – the right kind of women can be great allies too. The sad truth is that many men like Mr Bornstein discover that it isn’t just media outlets and government agencies who react with apathy to the injustice he is forced to endure, but family and friends often react with apathy too. While they may not be out “to get” him, it isn’t unusual for them to be as reluctant to hear about his problems any more than bureaucrats are.

    One of my closest friends has just gone through a custody dispute. He is one of the most decent, down-to-earth guys I’ve ever met. I remember him telling me with a look of dazed shock that his parents and siblings didn’t want to talk about it, and another ‘friend’ told him not to be too hard on his ex – remember she’s the mother of your children. This is the ‘support’ he gets from his nearest and dearest? I was angry, but not shocked because I’ve heard this a few times before. He told me that he had never felt so lonely in his life.

    Fortunately, his children were old enough to vehemently deny that he was a violently abusive drunk They were each interrogated for three hours and must have been extremely convincing because she lost custody – and the house. He is not sure if it was a result of her lies, or he was just extremely lucky in the judge who presided as no-one bothered to explain it to him. BTW, his ex told him of her adulterous affair and that she was divorcing him the day after he had paid the final installment of his retirement plan – that would dramatically increase the child-support payment. What a calculating, cold-blooded horror of a human being.

    Good luck to you Mr Bornstein. Your road to being a MHRA has been an ordeal, and there’s a long ay to go. At least you will be travelling with some fine men and women who will never shame you for being angry, least of all about the injustice you continue to face.

    • Jesse James

      It’s how it happened to me.

      I have every belief in the cultural dogma existing because seeing is believing in this case does not ring true. I saw it, and experienced it for years like this isolated father. I could not articulate the tremendous amounts of disinformation, lies, deceptions, and misleading information force fed to me everyday.

      Then I got to family court. Out of 14 people in that court room I was the only man. Even the bailiff was a woman.

      She accused me of everything under the sun minus rape. Nothing but poor dear, and awwwwww. When I pointed out that I thought she had cheated with an officer being enlisted, and had not told me…I was met with gasps, and “How could he?” She went on to admit that it happened twice, and they just gave her a knowing glance that I deserved it.

      Little did I know how far down the rabbit hole I had fallen. The craziness was beyond my comprehension. Being a vet, I went into the court room thinking that I would get a “fair trial.”

      Damn, was I ever wrong. Since then, I have had to fight that woman twice more in very expensive legal battles. I supposedly won this last time. Yet she refuses to follow any of the court order. So what I won was the right to be called a real father, and rewarded with the ability to pay more attorneys fees to force her to most likely still not follow the orders. This is going on ten years.

      I went to this site for help, and JTO, PE, Dean Esmay all talked with me. But they were right, my case is below average. As far as the courts go, my situation is the rough equivalent of a nice warm hug.

      Each father comes to the realization that we are not alone, but we still have to fight our court battles alone in most cases. In many ways, it is better if you don’t receive help from AVFM. If you do, it is most likely because you are being Vladek Fillered.

      The best you can do is try to heal mentally, emotionally, and stay connected to sites like this, and the National Parenting Organization for starters. There really is not much out there for us yet. But sites like this are on the rise!

    • menrppl2

      the biggest shocks for me was my mother, best friend, and lawyer were against me.
      it is a testament to the strength of men we are only 5 out of 6 suicides

      • Kevin Hornbuckle

        It is very difficult for anyone to get a grip on how thoroughly fucked a man can be: by his own friends; by professionals whose qualifications require them to be unbiased; by schools who hold his children captive emotionally, educationally, and sometimes even physically; by police who help a woman steal all of the man’s posessions and home; by social services whose mission is to protect children but who actually use that authority to harm children.

        A lot of suicides can be prevented by men getting the word out that the betrayal is the real thing that can get you. Give up your illusions that it can’t happen to you and you will be able to actually fight when it does.

        • Andybob

          I couldn’t get my head around the three-hour interrogations of his kids. Three hours? His son is 13 and his daughter 7. They must have tried everything short of water-boarding to get them the to incriminate their dad. What a disgrace.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

            Geveva convention.

  • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

    I concur Jonathan B. Your experiences in the USA virtually mirror mine/ours in the UK. I am a MHRA veteran 2002 – until equality for Men and Boys!

  • menrppl2

    We are taught to be good men, that the system is just, women are good, and men that run afoul of either, deserve everything they get. we scapegoat any selected whipping boy too prove we are good men.

    Then with a word, our devotion too being a good man means nothing, we become the scapegoated whipping boy that everyone and everything in society uses too prove they are good.

    alone, betrayed, used, destroyed, and discarded, we hang on too any thread of our old life, and just survive…..but then

    We realise….we are not alone, and it is not us that is bad.

    Welcome too brotherhood freedom and justice….the beginning of men!

    • Cordovan Splotch

      To, not too.
      “Too” basically means “also”.
      Just trying to be helpful, I’d have ignored it if it seemed to be a typo, but I figured you may have misunderstood the word since you kept using it wrong.

      Otherwise I like your post, short and succinct but with little to no meaning lost.

      • menrppl2

        k ty
        been trying to improve my writing since I seen Dean shave his
        beard.
        I struggle with thier’s, commas, spacing, spelling and capitols, too.
        until I get it right, I like to think of myself as a welcome wagon for the writing impaired

        • Fatherless

          Gud p0stt

          • Lucian Vâlsan

            inded m8 (sic!)

  • notinline

    The learning part will kick in when society finally realizes that kicking fathers out creates the violent kids that target them..When it comes home to roost….Hence, cop killers, etc..etc…

    • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

      I wish I had your optimism. A dystopia cannot be expected to “realize” until it has no choice. Meanwhile, we all do what we can to communicate with those who might listen and learn before they are marginalized and no one will listen to them either. It is my understanding that the “solution” to violence in the fatherless is to incarcerate them, restrict firearms, and bring the full force of the state down upon them. Thus the dystopia justifies itself.

  • http://menaregood.com/ Tom Golden

    Welcome Jonathan. Glad you had the courage to take a stand. All too often the thousands of different losses that men experience in your situation break them down to the point of giving up in a sea of powerlessness. You have told your story and we need more and more of these stories to be told. Sooner or later they will start making inroads into the mainstream, even if a man’s pain is disdained, they can have a huge impact on other men who are lost in that sea of powerlessness and in reading a similar story to his own he becomes alive again and starts to speak out himself.

    I hope we hear more and more from you and thanks for speaking up.

  • Roby 83

    I sued my country (Italy) at the European Court for Human Rights because incompetent judges attacked me and my child following the anti-father nazi-feminist ideology.

    • Jared

      This is quite important. Would you mind sharing more information about your case? Best wishes from Mexico

    • Model 800

      This insanity has practically gone global. I still cannot understand how so many of the people involved cannot see what it is that they are doing. A paycheck is quite simply not reason enough to so thoroughly destroy another man’s life.

      And then people wonder how the Nazis could have “happened” in the first place…

  • Susie Parker

    My son wouldn’t allow me to attend family court with him. “You’ll say something and it will just make things worse for me”.

    Instead, his girlfriend’s father went with him, having been through the same situation himself as a young man and knew the futility of expecting any sort of Justice to come out of it.

  • Lastango

    Your suffering is deeply moving. When you write: “There is an unmatched zeal ‘to get me': law enforcement, DAs, judges, court-appointed psychologists, attorneys ad litim—all shielded with immunity”, I’m reminded of the child abuse witchhunts in Massachusetts, Washington State, and elsewhere.

    Here’s a link to a brief summary of the events in Wenatachee:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/prosecutorial-abuse-the-wenatchee-witch-hunt-unravels-further

    There are so many parallels — the complete lack of physical evidence supporting accusations, a complicit and actively malicious network of bureaucracies, a destructive and biased media, the personal and professional immunity of the system’s abusers despite clear evidence they had worked to disenfranchise defendants, and the agencies circling the wagons afterward to protect themselves.

    I’m struck by this observation at the link: “The Wenatchee witch hunt gained its opportunity from a liberal mantra that 3 out of 4 children are subjected to sex abuse by a parent, close relative or child care provider.”

    That sounds like what you are saying about our culture, which has established women as victims and men as the victimizers. (In particularly, it brings to mind the wildly exaggerated on-campus sexual assault statistics the governing establishment and its allies are currently working so hard to integrate into the national awareness.) These presumptions are highly resistant to contrary proof, and contain an implicit call for the system to perpetrate injustice against men. Once men are demonized, they are fair targets for anything.

    So, thank you for your activism. We’re going to need it. Our enemies never rest, so we can’t either.

    • garyonthenet

      You enemies will rest, when they see there is no more money in it.
      Those incentives have to be removed.

    • Kevin Hornbuckle

      Repeating: “Once men are demonized, they are fair game for anything.” Including the manufacture of “evidence.” Men should read up on the history of witch hunts. They always benefit the ruling order and they always portend worse atrocities.

      It is good to see Jewish fathers speaking up. There is something repressive in even progressive Judaic culture, and that would be the corrosive feminism we have upon us today. Christianity has its own grand, horrific contribution to the special repression of men and boys (and of course, children in general). Some right wing MRAs are proponents of anti-semitism. You see their unfortunate comments pop up occasionally, not often on AVfM. The taxation system and the banking system play roles in the oppression of men and boys, but the cause of that cannot be rationally ascribed to Jews. In fact, Jewish boys and men are targets of particularly insidious discrimination. I hope AVfM will be open to wide-ranging discussions about how every religious tradition contributes to prejudice. Hillary Clinton is an example of how unexamined beliefs can spiral dangerously out of control. Her slavish loyalty to Israel is costing hundreds of Palestinian lives (including children) at this very moment. Clinton’s backing of Zionism and Zionism’s backing of Clinton is not unrelated to the systemic subjugation of men and boys; which is to say, it is related. The relationship has to be untangled carefully and thoroughly. And historically, beginning with the question: why does society need cycles of witch hunts?

      • Lastango

        Speaking for myself, I would prefer if you didn’t use AVfM threads as a platform for your positions about Zionism.

        When I see a post like yours I have the sense the poster is a fifth-columnist and false-flag infiltrator working to divide and discredit the MHRM by posting inflammatory, irrelevant material and creating false memes that lead readers down blind alleys.

        • Kevin Hornbuckle

          Are you kidding? Whenever an ideology/political movement is granted immunity and held to be beyond scrutiny there has to be trouble. Modern feminism’s prominent feature is to muzzle critics. Also, have you noticed the trend toward humanitarian interventionism, supported by Israel, targets Muslim countries so as to protect women? The hypocritical reporting on the Boko Haram travesties harkens back to Israel’s support of the racist regime that used to rule South Africa.

          The real blind alley is confusion that state powers might not be causally related to the systematic discrimination against boys and men.

          • Lastango

            You are proving my point.

            I had hoped you wouldn’t.

          • Kevin Hornbuckle

            You are proving my point by not offering any evidence. You make an unsupportable argument. I engage the logic you offer and your lack of specificity. You fail to respond with anything of substance, effectively repeating an unsupportable smear.

            What makes you any different from an autocrat who makes a false claim against a person, and then cites that person’s self-defense as justification for claim? It was you who denounced witch hunts.

          • Lastango

            Stop digging that pit your standing in long enough to notice I’m not objecting to or debating your specifics.

            If I did, I would be falling straight into the trap of establishing your framework as a valid theme for discussion, and AVfM as a proper venue for it. Then I would be helping misdirect readers away from MHRM issues, and helping confuse and conflate MHR issues with divisive irrelevancies until no one knows what the MHRM stands for/against anymore.

            That, of course, is exactly what a leftist/Marxist mole would want to have happen. Then the MHRM has been tricked into destabilizing and dividing itself from within.

          • Kevin Hornbuckle

            I comment under my actual identity. Anyone who wants to can go back and read every or any post I’ve made on AVfM and decide whether I behave as a mole.

            False accusations are not “divisive irrelevancies.” Social and religious systems that give rise to repression are not “divisive irrelevancies.” Witch hunts are not “divisive irrelevancies.”

            My framework is explicit: subjugation of boys and men happens for reasons traceable to property relations (i.e. money). Cultural and political systems are built up to disguise the use of people as property. The ‘tender years’ doctrine would be an example which has unjustly malformed the lives of men and children.

            These are hardly fabricated “wedge issues.” Why don’t you take some responsibility for your own position and explain how witch hunts have nothing to do with politics or monied interests. And when you are done with that one, please explain how the plight of men and boys is going to be resolved by the system which so grotesquely profits from it.

          • Lastango

            So far, you’ve attempted to get us talking about Jews, Zionism, Boko Haram, South Africa, and religious traditions in general.

            I can only imagine what would happen if future MHRM conferences included speakers who digressed into those stewpots, or attempted to get the audience disputing with one another about gun control or abortion. What a circus. Someone seeking to disrupt the MHRM could hardly wish for more.

          • Kevin Hornbuckle

            You view free speech as disruptive and open inquiry as seditious. I think this undercuts your warning about the dangers of witch hunts.

          • Lastango

            I view disruptive speech as disruptive, and pseudo-inquiry as sedition if the intent is seditious.

            But I am not claiming you are a cultural Marxist come here to jam the threads. It’s possible you are compulsive or lack self-awareness to the point you don’t recognize what’s appropriate or helpful. Or you may have deliberately hijacked the forum as a place to grind your personal axes. In the latter case, if this were an auto website, commenters at a thread about the new Explorer would, say, suddenly find you posting about the connection between Henry Ford and Jews.

            There are other possible explanations, and I don’t much care at the moment which one or combination accounts for your approach. But I care very much that what you are doing damages the MHRM.

          • Kevin Hornbuckle

            You are in full-on smear mode. You don’t have any interest whatever in understanding the issues or promoting open inquiry of things that affect men and boys. Your insipid ‘reasoning’ is the same reasoning that feminists use to remove MRA comments and ban MRA commenters.

          • crydiego

            Take your politics elsewhere because it leads to hate.

          • Kevin Hornbuckle

            Male disposability is a political problem. Pretending that it is not has the effect of increasing the hate.

          • crydiego

            I think you could say, every problem affecting men is a political problem. So every statement about men’s problems are political statements, thoughts-political, actions-political, etc. The glass is half full or the glass is half empty is political.

            So I’ll go along with you, Men’s problems are political. Now please tell me what your politics are and why it is any answer to men’s problems. From what political direction are you coming from?
            Don’t just jump in and say this is political without explaining your particular brand of politics and who should be in charge of world order. Every problem in politics leads to the, “bigger picture,” a grander plan that is about every aspect of life.
            If you are going to make men’s problems political then where is your fucking manifesto!
            Four legs are good.

          • Kevin Hornbuckle

            My brand of politics is working class Marxist. Anyone who wants to can look it up and determine that in a few minutes.

            Who should be in charge of world order? Everyone and no one. Generally speaking, the working class should democratically manage production for our own benefit.

          • crydiego

            First let me apologize for being snotty. It is clear that
            you are an honest, straight forward person and I kinda disrespected you, so I’m
            sorry.

            I would just like to make clear about my feelings and why I
            don’t think it is wise to inject any politics into the men’s rights movement.

            You are a Marxists, yet others are extreme right wingers, and still others are spread out everywhere in between. There is politics, religion, and numerous other ethnic and social affiliations that affect and define any one person’s beliefs. To side with one is to be in conflict with others. Politics by its very nature is divisive.

            Let’s take the men’s movement now with its fight for everyone’s right to be treated equally under the law. This does not conflict with any of the political right or left. Although it may go against some religious dogma, -that dogma can still be voluntarily practiced under laws of equity. To champion for any political affiliation under Men’s Rights Movement is to divide it and a divided house…….

            If a Marxist does something to support men’s rights and equity I would support them in that action. If all they do is talk the talk and promise things, I will ignore them; same for republicans, democrats, and even Buddhists.

            I am saying that there are no reasons to take sides politically and it is even unwise. This movement is going to be courted by every political group out there. So please join with me in fighting against their empty words and promises; all of them!

            I speak only for myself here but feminism went political and was owned by it. It was its greatest strength for awhile but now it is the cause of its excesses and its greatest weakness. Let the politicians know, what ever they do, it will have to meet with the approval of half the world.

          • Kevin Hornbuckle

            I agree that, “feminism went political and was owned by it. It was its greatest
            strength for awhile but now it is the cause of its excesses and its
            greatest weakness.”

            Men’s rights is far broader and deeper than any political labels. It is very, very important to avoid dogmatism because the ruling elites have the ability to manipulate identities to serve their own ends. Feminism is a prime example. There is potential for that to happen to the MRM too. In order to defend against the slipperly slope of identitarianism (the state’s/ruling class’ ability to manipulate cultural identities for its own objectives) men have to have basic understanding about how politics, religion, economics, and culture interrelate. To pretend that they don’t is to set oneself up for betrayal. We see examples of such betrayals on these very pages.

            You don’t see me telling anyone that they shouldn’t be making political statements. I’m all for open discussion. The fact that I use Marxist principles to understand the subjugation of men and boys is offensive to certain participants familiar to AVfM. I’m not in the habit of feeding people comfortable lies. This will never change about me. Personally, it is the only way I am able to stand up to feminist bullshit. But clearly, there are other flavors of bullshit that also have to be rejected.

          • crydiego

            I understand what you’re saying. If we can stay together, we will win.
            All the best to you.

          • crydiego

            Take your politics elsewhere.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ David King

            If this were a general interest web site, then perhaps your commentary might be apposite but, as it is, AVfM is a men’s human rights organisation and your remarks are only very, very tangentially related. The problem is not that they have no relevance to men’s issues, it’s that the explanation you offer is framed in terms of race and political philosophy.

            Yes, men’s issues are political, but they are political in their own right rather than tagged onto and in support of some other political perspective (eg the morality of capital).

            @Lastango:disqus is doing the right thing by refusing to engage in a subject that would derail the subject at hand. It’s not a question of free speech, it’s a question of relevance and appropriateness. There are lots of other subjects besides race and zionist politics that aren’t welcome here. We’re not muzzling you, only requiring that you stay on topic.

          • Kevin Hornbuckle

            “The problem is not that they have no relevance to men’s issues, it’s
            that the explanation you offer is framed in terms of race and political
            philosophy.”

            Who mentioned race? I averred that racism in South Africa was wrong. I don’t think you disagree with that. Am I wrong? Are you of the belief that Jewish people form a “race”? That is a long-debunked myth. It is dangerous for Jews and nonJews alike.

            My political philosophy is that men and boys should not be forced into an underclass. So yes, I frame my opposition to misandry in terms of political philosophy because it is a political problem.

            I didn’t say anything about “the morality of capital.” But now that you open that door, here is the basic point: capital is amoral. It grows and loots and plunders because that is what it does. Period. The purpose of men constituting an underclass is the exploitation of our labor, ultimately for the benefit of capital. Male disposability is central to this process.

            I don’t think AVfM readers are so fragile that they can’t occasionally experience a little dissent.

        • sputnik

          I didn’t get much of any “positions on Zionism”, here, as much as I got that he’s an “equal-opportunity” critic of ideologies lurking within various religions. Zionism just happened to come up more prominently. Am I too easy?

          • Lastango

            Thanks for asking.

            No, you are not to easy. Rather, you are under-informed about how deep that meme runs, and what it connects to. To learn more, you might start here:

            http://www.maskofzion.com/2012/04/zionist-infestation-of-africa-zimbabwe.html

            Above, Hornbuckle refers to “humanitarian interventionism”. At the link you’ll discover the boldface declaration “Cultural Zionism Spreads Under The Guise Of ‘Humanitarianism’”. The conclusion the piece draws is:

            Apart from the alarming connections of the World Jewish Relief of London to the international Zionist criminal network and the racist core of
            Orthodox Jewry, the real reason why Feigenbaum is bouncing around
            Zimbabwe is revealed by her words, and it isn’t “humanitarianism.”

            Hornbuckle also mentions South Africa. At the link you will read:

            The malevolent apartheid regime of South Africa is perhaps where the Jewish supremacist entity’s ties were the strongest. In South Africa,
            Jews benefited and thrived under the racist regime’s protection,
            maintaining and strengthening their ties with the Zionist entity.

            And at the end:

            What the people of Africa, Black and Arab, Christian and Muslim, and everything in between, must know, is that the Zionist entity, inspired
            by a primordial Jewish supremacist ideology, has no interest in your
            land except to exploit it, and exploit you. Zionism is a cancer that
            infests, infects and destroys everything in its path. But like any other
            cancer, it can be counteracted and cut out, so it never returns.

            O’ Africa! Cut out the Zionist cancer from your midst. Cut it out like a
            knife to flesh and vow never to mix with it again. It is what Sankara
            would have wanted. It is what Qadhdhafi would have wanted.

            That is where this theme is headed. And it is not only from Africa that Zionism is to be cut out “like a knife to flesh”, in a final solution so it can never return. Since Hornbuckle also mentions the Palestinians, let’s continue on to CI Broadcasting, which states it is “Bringing Islam to the world, and the world to you.” Here’s what they think you should know:

            We must always be on the alert for wolves in sheepskins! The South African Zionist Federation and their associates want to use you to further their racist supremacist ideology of Zionism.

            For years this has been the basis for the brutal killings of fellow
            Palestinians, the forceful eviction of Palestinians and more recently
            through the racist and xenophobic violence against mainly African
            migrants and refugees inside Israel. Their occupation and the theft of
            the land and natural resources of the indigenous people is nothing but a
            legalisation of Jewish supremacy to further dehumanise everyone outside
            their scope of Zionist purity.

            http://www.ciibroadcasting.com/2012/06/28/cosatu-condemns-south-african-zionist-federations-abuse-of-blacks-under-religious-guise-to-legitimise-apartheid-in-israel/

            By now, you are no doubt beginning to smell that a diverse gathering of very large rats is lurking somewhere nearby.

          • sputnik

            Fascinating. It never ceases to amaze me the general level of intelligence and awareness among most MHRAs. That’s why it was such a pleasure to hang in St. Clair Shores for several very long nights!

            Yah, I’m not unaware of this thread in contemporary (and not so contemporary) political discourse. And to the extent that there is an element of truth to it, I’ve always been content to draw a distinction between Zionism and Judaism, many Jews, both Orthodox and Progressive, being quite adamantly anti-Zionist, with very good, good-bookish justification, to boot. The world’s a weird place. And what quasi-imperialists there may be under the aegis of Zionism aren’t at all unlike any other would be profiteers. What has been said, in your sources, could easily be said about the U. S., or China in Sudan over oil, or Russia in the Crimean Peninsula, again. I chose to go easy on Hornbuckle — another example of a men’s movement kinda guy who obviously ain’t too shabby in the intellect department — in the moment, jus’ ‘cuz, even though I did find his comments rather on the strong side.

            Basically, I agree with you, and Dean Esmay in a reply to Hornbuckle near here. Even were Hornbuckle’s content unimpeachable, we would need to keep it just that much cleaner, here.

            That said, I HAVE noted with dismay the tendency to attack Islam as a patriarchal culture by highlighting the plight of women and girls. I think Hornbuckle has a good point; he just needs to keep it a little more *en pointe*.

            And fundamentally, this particular article is not the place to be making that point in the first place. Maybe that’s the biggest rub, now that we’ve gotten all that other shit out of the way! :-)

          • Kevin Hornbuckle

            Well that is creative. Tag me with a bunch of right wing bullshit.
            You are like the Democrats who accused all people who had anything critical to say about Obama, of being secret Tea Party members or right wing revanchists. Your smear tactics are exactly in form with feminists who characterize all MRAs as dangerous and who then conveniently conclude that men’s issues don’t really exist.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

        We are generally not interested in debating the Israeli/Palestinian conflict here, for the same reason we are generally not interested in debating the pro-life/pro-choice matter. There is a fringe group of MRAs who insist that legal abortion is inseparable from the men’s movement; the argument is that if we allow baby boys to be killed in the womb and have such disrespect for life in general, and separate sex from the natural function of reproduction, it is all part and parcel of the planned destruction of the family, and on it goes, there are whole blogs where you can find this explored, and inevitably it degenerates into an “abortion is murder!” “no it isn’t!” debate.

        There is another fringe which attempts to tie every single war ever waged by anyone for any reason as part of a mass systemic attempt to destroy males.

        There is still another fringe that insists that religion in general is the reason behind itall, or the Abrahamic faiths in specific. Have fun with that, we won’t be going there here either, there are other blogs where you can go explore the argument that religion in general or certain specific religions are the root cause of men’s issues.

        If someone wants to write an article on how particularly shat-upon Palestinian men are, we would probably host an article on it–indeed as it happens I recently invited someone to write just such an article. But I am not interested in turning this site into a mass derailment on the Israeli/Palestinian question. Sorry, please take that elsewhere.

        • Kevin Hornbuckle

          The author of the article above comes from the liberal Jewish tradition which is a very important constituency, not only for its size but for its contribution to humanities, science (Albert Einstein for one), philosophy, politics (key roles in U.S. civil rights leadership), etc. When someone from that tradition takes a stand for men’s human rights, it is significant. My initial comments were about how liberal American Jews are perhaps more vulnerable to misandry. Discovering how misandry is embedded in various religious and cultural traditions should be of great interest to a website dedicated to men’s rights.

          By the way, an increasing portion of American Jews are opposed to Zionism and have formed organizations to which work to formally reject it. The implication that antiZionism can come only from reactionaries is simply false.

          The rape culture industry on campuses these days is traceable to ‘get out the vote’ drives organized by Democrats. They are destroying due process for the purpose of political self interest. That is a matter of misandry. It is destroying the lives of falsely accused young men, and certainly plays a role in the progressive decline in male enrollment and graduation rates.

          Dean, your admonition looks a lot like a new rule for AVfM: its okay to oppose misandry and the cultural abuse of men and boys so long as you don’t go too deep in understanding the political and economic roots of it. Certain lines of inquiry are forbidden. The better strands of women’s liberation got similarly derailed in favor of the narcissistic, fetishized feminism which dominates politics and culture today. You made about the same point a few years ago in a video published on this website.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

            The very fact that this entire thread about a man whose chlidren have been severely abused by a misandrist court system and who has himself been nearly destroyed by it has been totally derailed by your desire to make this all about Zionism because he happens to be Jewish is proof enough that you’re obsessed and have no sense of decorum or appropriateness.

            So let’s make this really really clear: I see one more comment from you on Zionism and you’re banned from this site, for good. I mean it. Even one more, even one in response to this comment: ONE MORE WORD on Zionism from you and you are parmabanned from this site. Got it?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

            In fact, what as I thinking? I already asked you to move on. You’re banned. Take your obsession with Israel to some site to someplace where they’re more interested in that shit.

  • PlainOldTruth
  • garyonthenet

    Jonathan, I am Gary Trieste, I also grew up in the upper West Side in Manhattan. Went to shul there too.
    And I have been through hell, and not back yet, as you have.

    I am reminded of another article on the family courts on AVFM that talks about the backstory of the system that has officially and legally destroyed us:
    http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/fathers/american-family-courts-the-first-amendment-and-violations-of-free-speech/

    It is horrible what they do to us, and yes I have also felt that officially designated hate against me as well, and no one to turn to.
    Official assistance? There isn’t any, the attitude is ‘Hey, well you shouldn’t have done what you did.”
    But I didn’t DO anything, I have only had things done to me, and my daughter ripped away from me.
    It is like being a Jew in Nazi Germany. You didn’t actually have to DO anything, it is just who you are.

    I first wrote on AVFM my story:
    Missing Anya http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/government-tyranny/missing-anya/

    All except close relatives and friends shrug their shoulders and say “Gee, sucks to be you don’t it?”
    And I am still battling the system. Because of that attitude, and certainly no one who has any competance in the law would advise me w/o huge sums of money, I created Family Court Dads yahoogroup to share and network on family court legal strategies and issues, and related angst. It did help a lot. If you want to join:

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FamilyCourtDads/info

    More power to you, your article touched me.

  • Renaissance Man

    Great piece. Thanks.

  • http://caprizchka.wordpress.com Caprizchka

    Hillary Clinton has a role in the formulation of policies that award sole custody to mothers while she was at Yale. As a New Yorker, you’re obliged to vote for her and if you don’t, you’re a sexist. Don’t be angry. Get even.

  • Kevin Hornbuckle

    I’m sorry this is happening to you and your children, Jonathan. I think the theme of your article is that men, especially fathers, have to sober up to the reality of how badly things are stacked against us. You cannot be prepared to protect yourself and your kids until you understand how systematically your rights have been dissolved away by modern feminism. It is a slow process which takes a lot of learning.

  • Dawn Blast

    Wish I could say this on better circumstances. But welcome aboard

  • http://www.StudioBrule.com Steve Brulé

    Welcome to the club brother. There’s no money, but the company is far better!

  • crisp

    Jonathan Bornstein, I would be more than interested in your mothers views on what has happened to you?, has it affected her in being able to be a grandmother?, has she supported you, or are you an example of what she denigrated in men?

  • 2cyar

    People criticize the MHRM for just talking and not actually “doing” anything but probably the most urgent task at this point is to first provide forums where men are able to talk about their problems and nightmare experiences without the usual shaming, dismissal, hating, and denial…and second to educate other men out of their blindness to their real (non) status in society so they can possibly avoid being blindsided and left crumpled in the road when reality suddenly hits them like a two ton mack truck. Whatever marriage ‘may’ have been at one time, it has been intentionally gutted by court rulings and the state until it can be quite literally ‘suicidal’ for any man to enter in to and it’s only going to get worse. Feminist oriented groups and individuals are now agitating to have any man who fights for access to his children classified as abusive to women and children because he would rather raise his children than to just pay up and let them move on without him. STFU and pay up is society’s call to duty for men. Young men especially need to know that the quickest route to throwing away whatever rights they do have, and becoming even lower than dog shit, is to get married. They need to be educated and supported so they can resist social pressure to conform to this tradition until another framework for long term relationships and child rearing can be formulated outside of the state’s unjust marriage offering that takes into account current irreversible cultural realities..

    • Shamednomore

      “until another framework for long term relationships and child rearing can be formulated outside of the state’s unjust marriage offering ”
      Hopefully that day will come soon, just hope I’m still around to see it. With regard to attracting more people… I believe we need to offer them something more than just a different view on gender relations. We need to offer physical activism and support services that men need in order to get them interested. Kind of what the feminist did by offering battered women services, marches and rallies. If we could assist and motivate men through action I think that’s the next step for growth and success.
      Myself, I’ve been at this for several months and at times its a little frustrating. In my community I feel like a lone MRA…I know there are others out there, but we are largely anonymous . I try to engage regular blue pill folks in my social circle with relevant conversation, some are agreeable some just smile…I go on the city police Facebook site and always comment on gendered issues to give a MRA perspective etc etc…But I would love to be more active and socially connected to the movement. That is where I feel we need to grow.

    • Model 800

      The strangest aspect behind all this is that the PTB have completely removed the carrot and replaced it entirely with a giant stick as far as gender relations are concerned. And yet, they act surprised when the more perceptive young men refuse to “man up”. There is simply a point beyond which you cannot whip people into doing something that is so outrageously against their self-interest, as demonstrated by Gandhi with his nation-wide coordinated “sit in”. What were the British to do? Shoot all the Indians into “going back to work”? Good luck with that bachelor tax fellas.

  • crydiego

    Well said Jonathan.

  • Ted Harrold

    I have no words to properly express how this makes me feel and how sympathetic I am. All I can say is that your children deserve to have you back and I hope with all I have that this happens asap.

  • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

    RBK posted “MGTOW Just Can’t Get Laid”. Us and ‘The Guess Who’

  • TPH

    Welcome to the movement Jonathan. I spent a small fortune getting custody of my son’s from my cocaine addicted ex-wife, even 3 arrests and felony charges wouldn’t hold sway in family court. I was raised by a feminist mother and egalitarian father, I was a believer in feminism until I began to see just how it operated, despite the claims of working towards equality for everyone.

    A good portion of my family and extended family consider me to be an asshole and bully since I fought for my sons custody in family court. I was repeatedly told to “drop the case” and let my ex have full custody by quite a number of relatives, both male and female. My sons are the most important thing in my life, I would face the fires of Hell to save them.

    I was questioning feminism before my divorce, afterwards I knew, absolutely knew that radical feminism had poisoned the judiciary and government. Gynocentrism is an old concept, but now its new face is

    feminism. I believe in equality for all, just not one gender and am willing to stand up for it. I am a Mens Rights Activist because I feel a deep need to address the incredible double standards and Misandry men face on a day to day basis, society sees the problems and double standards boys and men face and sleeps. If anything, I hope to be an alarm clock – waking up men and getting them to see the situation all around them and get them to begin using critical thought, pushing back against the orthodoxy of feminized society and government.

  • http://www.judgybitch.com JudgyBitch

    Jonathan, I am an adult survivor of parental alienation and while I cannot even begin to comprehend the depth of your pain right now, I can tell you that the future can be very different. Here is the story of what happened when my father, who never gave up on me, finally found me and told me his side of the story: http://judgybitch.com/2014/06/15/repost-for-fathers-day-first-i-feared-him-then-i-loathed-him-then-i-forgave-him-and-now-i-take-care-of-him-the-story-of-my-father-and-me/

  • Mike Zhao

    Wow. That’s it. You captured it totally.

  • RiseOfDivergents

    Because of events like this I became anti feminist even before I knew about MHRM. This is the reason antifeminism is the strength not a liability. Antifeminism is the first step towards the search for truth and then you find folks who know the truth, who see it as it is and want to work for real equality, democracy and making state responsible; those folks are known as MRAs.

  • http://www.stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/ Angelo

    Another reason to be a MRA NOW. Have you heard this shit? “Connecticut Man Arrested for “Passive Aggressive” Behavior to a Watermelon by Misandric US Police”
    http://stgeorgewest.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/connecticut-man-arrested-for-passive.html

  • http://patricestanton.com/ Patrice Stanton

    Dear Jonathan: Oh, that yours was a tale that NEVER had to be told again. I am so sorry for the circumstances that brought you to the “pages” and people of AVfM, but thank god that this place is here, eh? I know you have already found many hands to lift you up – and willing ears to hear you speak – in what is certainly a most oppressive time in you and your children’s lives. From here on out, all the best.

  • MGTOW 4Ever

    MRA are made through getting fucked. MGTOW are the products of the fucking.

    It seems to me that MRA lost something and want to get it back no matter what the odds are.

    MGTOW on the other hand have lost or no what the loses can be therefore they just simply avoid the “fucking” MGTOW know the odds and its like wining the lottery or getting money our of American Politics.

    The chances of changing anything are like wining the lottery and or the State Failing. So why waste time and resources when I can use said resources to Help Myself.

    I respect MRA efforts but then again I also smirk in sarcasm at them cause I know they are fucked. Can’t get fucked if you don’t play the game.

    If enough men stop playing the Game then their is no game.. The act of doing nothing is actually doing something.

    • 2cyar

      Fair enough and perhaps you’re right, but for myself I’m not looking to get anything back but rather for something else completely new and different. I would like to see the current order flipped on its head and gynocentrism ended once and for all and replaced with equal rights, equal treatment, and equal obligations for all. It’s a process that may indeed prove futile and MGTOW will continue to grow whatever the case.

      “When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people
      to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another,
      and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal
      station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a
      decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should
      declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

      • http://www.angryharry.com/ Angry Harry

        1. This men’s movement cannot be stopped. And it is growing all the time.

        2. Being an MRA is FUN, huge fun. And it is also very empowering if you learn how to empower yourself through it. Get Skype. Chat to other MRAs. Try to convert others through heinous subterfuge and masterful persuasion. Aggravate those feminists whenever you can. Wind them up. Poke fun at them.

        Destroy their credibility. Expose their malice and their stupidity.

        Rally others to the cause.

        Invade their heads. Change their minds. Get them mad.

        Just keep involved and enjoy yourself.

        See it as an online video game wherein you are part of an ever-growing team of MRAs who are fighting the wicked enemy and helping to bring it down.

        That’s what I do.

        3. Re-read item 1 above.

        • markis1

          One thousand upvotes

    • http://www.angryharry.com/ Angry Harry

      So, why are you here?

      • sputnik

        Moreover –more in reply to MGTOW 4Ever — your opening assertion isn’t enough of a valid generality to amount to much. It shore don’ apply to female MRAs!— in the same sense of the word “fucked/fucking”. And there are plenty of guys — particularly counselors — who don’t have personal horror stories to tell, but they’re here, ain’t they!

        MGTOW is not the end all and be all, and while I support MGTOW as a matter of personal pragmatism for many guys (myself included), it’s the death of a civilization in the not-so-long run. Not long at all. I get what you mean by “doing nothing is doing something”, and if that (not)happens for awhile, it may have an effect, but I ain’t holdin’ m’breath. I have a nephew who deserves a viable life. Even my damfool daughter… Something has to be done, my friend! :-)

      • BeijaFlor

        Even as a man committed to Going My Own Way, I testify with Angry Harry on this.

        MGTOW is a personal solution, a personal choice, a lifestyle. Men’s Rights Activism is an effort to influence the future, to push for change, to ameliorate and to right the wrongs of the past fifty years of Toxic Feminism – and make no mistake about it, feminism is toxic and we are mired in its poison.

        I haven’t been burned, like so many of us here. Never married; no children; and I haven’t “played the game,” meaning the dating/mating game, for nigh-unto 30 years now. But I cannot blind myself to the injustice suffered by my fellow man, and I can certainly offer SOME help toward creating a better, equitable future. That a self-labeled MGTOW would “smirk in sarcasm” at such struggles, at such pain, leaves me embarrassed and ashamed of the MGTOW label.

  • Whothehell Cares

    A Father’s right to be a father to his children is the most important issue that the MHRM can tackle. Many (though not all) other perceived issues will simply fade away as a flow on effect, if Fathers rights are restored.

  • John Durant

    And this is why I have chosen to stay single. I have seen far too many men victimized throughout my lifetime, from my fathers friends who one by one were divorced and screwed by the state to my father who got royally screwed by my mother in their divorce. Then there was my mothers overbearing attitude towards me. Not being allowed to have a model railroad. The dirty looks I would get whenever I would buy anything for my pleasure such as a nice book, or some model trains that I would have to run elsewhere to enjoy. Always being told that I should be saving my hard earned money instead of enjoying it. Then watching my own friends be screwed over by their significant others. For the longest time, I did not date because I didn’t make enough money to support a family. Now I see it was for the best. I have no family to support and I can come and go as I please. I have no wife to take me to the cleaners, no children to be used as weapons against me. I see women becoming more and more narcissistic and selfish. The way things are today, MGTOW is the only way.

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    “We are taught to be gentle with girls, not rough-house with them, to
    treat them as ladies, to defer to their feelings, to please them.”

    —But feelings are now fair game and fair target for scrutiny. Women’s feelings are of no more importance than men’s and should not be solely protected. If wrong here, doesn’t this smell of women, all because of their precious feelings owning them (skewing their perspectives with bias) and also needing so much special preferential attention, are inherently not equal with men in this philosophical context? The only way to prove that wrong is to also give males the exact same consideration as given to females.

    As humans, of course we are all equal. It is all the other stuff above and beyond that of being a human animal (species), that proves we are not equal. It could be ironed out, but they insist on making things worse, however.

  • Kevin Hornbuckle

    This is rotten to the core!

  • Tofeldian Sage

    Jonathan, you’ve written an excellent piece here. Thank you. I’m generally trying to move on from my own similar experience, but I have to admit that 10 years later my vengeful ex-wife continues to pour poison into the ears of my adult children. One of them knows it, two of them suck it all in. It never really ends. I used to look forward to being a grandfather. Now I dread knowing that I will have grandchildren that I will never see. It is sick, sick, sick.

    But what really resonated for me was the sense of betrayal by my own society. Like you, I spent my lifetime doing what society asked me to do. I went to work every day, and I put every dime into one common account from which 5 people were housed, clothed and fed. I came home from work every day, and loved my wife and loved my children. I did this for 20 years. Now my wife and two of my three children despise me.

    What made it worse was the line-up of institutions behaving exactly as you described. For me, the police, the courts, the bank, Canada Revenue Agency, Canada Post. I used to be proud of my country, and proud to be a citizen. Now I am indifferent at best, and ashamed at worst. I now look at the police with deep suspicion, and I have very low regard for the courts. If they weren’t carrying arms, and operating jails, I would tell them to their faces. (I often wonder how a police state would be different.)

    Every day I am mindful of the fact that my family was destroyed by a woman. There are no mechanisms in my society designed to counteract that, no means even to discuss it. But destroyed it is. I cannot now look at any woman, no matter how appealing or sympathetic, without knowing in the back of my mind that she has that power, and that she cannot be controlled if she chooses to use it.

    Now when my society says to me “Here is what you can do for your society” I turn a deaf ear. I consider my society to be corrupt, and I am dispossessed within it.

    I went to the Detroit conference, and it was genuinely uplifting to hear such great speakers, many of whom I have long admired. I tried my best to thank each one of them in person for the work they had done, and to let them know how it has buoyed me through these past few years. They are part of a turn-around, both in society and in me.

    We cannot live like this, afraid to commit our lives to each other. It isn’t right, and I know that, but it is the pretty pass we have arrived at. Feminism has taken us from an advanced society built on the strength of the family and reduced us to a bunch of co-located individuals. Erin Pizzey said it best: Feminism has done widespread and lasting damage.

    Now I am ready to work to unseat it.

  • K Pow

    Im sorry you had to go through all that.

  • MrImmoli

    “New York entertains something called implied violence. It is absurdia
    infinitum. My adulterous wife conveniently claimed fear of me. This is
    violence to New York.”

    Is this true? I can’t find any good information anywhere online.