The state of play for men: Domestic Violence

Myth: Domestic violence is a crime largely perpetrated by aggressive men against women.

Summary: Men under report incidents of domestic violence targeted at them, and society downplays the scale of male suffering, and in many cases, refuses to acknowledge that it exists at all. In fact, recent studies on both sides of the Atlantic are increasingly showing that men are affected by domestic violence at least as much as women.

Discussion: In 2000, the National Violence Against Women Survey estimated that there are 830,000 male and 1.5 million female victims of domestic violence in the United States each year1. More recent studies are increasingly presenting a picture of approximate parity between the sexes in terms of partner violence, however. For example, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) is a federal agency under the Department of Health and Human Services, but it also recognized for its research into domestic and sexual violence. In 2011, it published the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey which shows that 5.0% of men and 5.9% of women reported experiencing rape, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner in the 12 months prior to taking the survey2.

In 2006, the Journal of Family Psychology (an American Journal) published the results of research which found that, between couples, the incidence of male-to-female violence was 13.66%, but for female-to-male violence it was actually higher at 18.20%3. It also found that women were twice as likely as men to initiate severe violence against their partners. This finding is supported by a more recent California State University survey of some 286 scholarly investigations, 221 empirical studies and 65 reviews independent studies. It concludes that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships4.

In the UK, the British Crime Survey (BCS) for 2010/11 reported similar results as the CDC survey in terms of the male-female violence ratio. It found that 5% of men and 7% of women had experienced domestic abuse in the year prior to the survey5. It also found that 3% of men and 4% of women reported that they had experienced stalking in the previous year5.

PARITY, a gender equality campaigning charity in the UK, submitted a memorandum to the UK Parliament back in 2007 stating:6

“There is now a considerable body of evidence, in particular by a succession of detailed Home Office surveys in the past decade of interpersonal violence in England and Wales, to demonstrate the existence of a substantial level of female violence against male partners, including severe and/or repeated physical assault. Despite this, support services specifically for male victims are largely absent or inadequate, and few women are actually charged or prosecuted for domestic violence against a male partner.”

The number of women convicted of domestic abuse in the UK has, in fact, increased fourfold in the last 7 years, from 806 in 2004/5 to 3,965 in 2010/117. However, of all prosecutions for domestic violence in England and Wales, approximately 93% of them are against men8.

Men are much less likely than women to tell others about what they had suffered. The BCS found that only 19% of male victims would tell someone in a professional organization–half the number of female victims (44%). It also found that 28% of male victims do not tell anyone–more than twice the proportion for women8.

In fact, men attempting to report violent assaults against them can expect to face disbelief, ridicule and counter allegations. Only 10% of men will tell the police in the UK, three times less than women9. In their memorandum to the UK Parliament, PARITY stated, “Anecdotal evidence suggests that the police and other agencies…are often not even-handed in their response to male victims…in a significant number of cases arresting the male victim instead of the female perpetrator.”

On the other side of the Atlantic, a recent Canadian study reported similar results. It found that women are four times more likely to report partner violence to police than men10, and concludes that: “Men who are involved in disputes with their partners, whether as alleged victims or as alleged offenders or both, are disadvantaged and treated less favourably than women by the law-enforcement system at almost every step.”

Organizations working with male victims also report a high degree of scepticism amongst professionals and the public towards male victims of domestic violence11. Much of the literature produced in the field of domestic abuse quote female victim statistics only, while completely omitting those for males, thus suggesting that the problem only applies to women. In fact, some women’s organizations even go as far as to make the highly dubious claim that a staggeringly high percentage of men (90%) who report that they are victims of domestic violence are lying (they are abusers pretending to be victims). This claim is refuted by the Mankind Initiative, a charity working with male victims in the UK. According to its own screening program, 98.75% of men calling its helpline are true victims12. It notes that no there is no equivalent research on females as no organization is willing to make the same assessment.

Moreover, the very narrative of domestic violence itself is often framed in a female only context by international bodies, governments and support organizations around the world. For example, the United Nations defines domestic violence as follows13:

“Any act of gender-based violence that results in, or is likely to result in, physical, sexual or psychological harm or suffering to women, including threats of such acts, coercion or arbitrary deprivations of liberty, whether occurring in public or private life.”

By this definition, therefore, male targeted domestic violence simply does not exist. This is the same definition used by many organizations in the UK, including the Crown Prosecution Service and the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. In the US, there is VAWA–the Violence Against Women Act, which is administered by the Department of Justice Office on Violence Against Women. There is clearly no recognition of men, other than as perpetrators, in this narrative.

Correspondingly, there is little in the way of support for male victims. There are over 1200 abuse shelters in the United States, but few will accept men. For example, Los Angeles County funds two dozen shelters exclusively for abused women, but only one shelter will accepts male victims14. In the UK, the situation is similar, if not worse. There are 7,500 beds in refuges dedicated to women, but there are only 72 beds that can be used by men15 (the majority of these can also be used by women). And while a woman fleeing abuse may find a shelter that will take both her and her children, a man attempting to do same will fear arrest for kidnap16, irrespective of whether he is the victim or not.

Over the years, large sums have been spent by governments around the world on campaigns to encourage women to report domestic violence and to seek help, with no similar campaigns targeted toward male victims, or provisions made for them. The crude negative stereotyping of men as aggressors and women as victims has no doubt obscured men’s suffering from society’s view. While the well founded fear and stigma that prevents men from coming forward to report their suffering remains, the true picture of domestic violence will always be incomplete.


1. Patricia Tjaden and Nancy Thoennes. Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence, Findings From the National Violence Against Women Survey. US Department of Justice. 2000. Link:
2. National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, 2010 Summary Report. National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Page 39. Link:
3. McDonald R. Estimating the number of American children living in partner-violent families.
Journal of Family Psychology, Vol. 20, No. 1, pp. 137–142. 2006. Link:
4. Martin S. Fiebert, California State University, Long Beach. References examining assaults by women on their spouses or male partners: An annotated bibliography. 2012. Link:
5. Homicides, Firearm Offences and Intimate Violence. Supplementary Volume 2 to Crime in England and Wales 2010/11. Page 88. Link:
6. Memorandum (Appendix 2) submitted by PARITY to the UK Parliament Select Committee on Home Affairs Written Evidence in 2007. Link:
7. ManKind Initiative, 21 key facts about male victims. Link:
8. Crown Prosecution Service. Defendants prosecuted in England and Wales for domestic violence crimes in 2009/10. Link:
9. Homicides, Firearm Offences and Intimate Violence. Supplementary Volume 2 to Crime in England and Wales 2010/11. Page 96. Link:
10. Brown, G. (2004). Gender as a factor in the response of the law-enforcement system to violence against partners. Sexuality and Culture, 8, 1–87.
11. UK House of Commons Select Committee on Home Affairs, Sixth Report May 2008. Link:
12. ManKind Initiative, 21 key facts about male victims. Link:
13. UN Declaration of Violence Against Women, Article 1.
14. Glenn Sacks. July 2012. Link:
15. ManKind Initiative, 21 key facts about male victims. Link:
16. Glenn Sacks. July 2012. Link:

Note. The above text intentionally discusses domestic violence, as it applies to men, in both the US and UK. The problem is not specific to any one country, and it was considered useful to provide examples and references for both. However, the argument presented stands for each country independently, even if content specific to the other is omitted.

This article first appeared on the Last Legionary Blog.

About Andy Thomas (aka "Andy Man")

Andy is an outspoken advocate for human rights and a campaigner against family abuse. He writes about the harm and prejudice that men and boys routinely experience, but which society refuses to acknowledge.

Find me on  Facebook

Main Website
View All Posts
  • Rper1959

    Thank you Andy Man for your concise and well referenced summary of the situation regarding the feminist ploy of “violence against women” , sadly the situation is echoed here in Australia, despite our own government surveys showing the extent of female on male domestic violence – feminists still proclaim it to be an almost exclusively female domain.

    Indeed my local nemesis feminist betty mclellan recently wrote to our newspaper stating : “Domestic violence research continues to show it is overwhelming men who are the perpetrators and women the victims, but mens rights activists insist it is a situation of equality.”

    you can see betty in action here :

    go to 4.15 if you dont want to watch the whole vid! its depressing stuff..

    • Andy Man

      Hey Rper1959 – thanks for the comment. I do appreciate that the problem affects Australia, and many countries around the world, not just the US and Blighty. I watched the video. It was well presented – just wondering, is it yours?

      • Rper1959

        affirmative! first attempts a youtube vid’s!

        • Andy Man

          Just dropped a message to your YouTube account. Would be good to keep in touch.

        • Ray

          Excellent video.

  • kiwihelen

    Andy, thanks. I’m linking this post to my beloved with a ‘please read’ as I still think he feels ‘weird’ being a male survivor of domestic violence.
    He and I’ve been discussing an idea of living in a big sub-let house once we finally live in the same timezone. I’m going to plant a seed he might want to think about the process of it becoming a DV shelter for men…He’s looking at a career shift once his girls are adults.

    • Andy Man

      I hope the shelter works out. Thanks for the reply.

  • napocapo69

    excellent article

    • Ray

      I agree, excellent article.

      I’d love to see more articles like this, shining a light on the taxpayer funded, domestic violence industry cockroaches who infest our societies.

  • null kill

    Very well researched and beautifully articulated. Thanks.

  • Turbo

    Thank you for the research Andy Man

    • Turbo

      Incredible how Feminists will manufacture false stats and spruik them widely, but totally ignore the real stats.

      • scatmaster

        Not surprising to me in the least.
        It is their modus operandi.

        • Turbo

          Indeed Mt Scat, it is not surprising.
          I did say “incredible” not “surprising”.
          Not much they do does surprise us.

          • scatmaster

            I knew where you were coming from Mr Turbo.
            It is both “incredible and not “surprising”.
            They really are despicable examples of protoplasm.

  • blueface

    Wow, Andy Man! Excellent references.

    The treble-think is that women are simultaneously less than men – so need defending and protecting; equal to men – so can do anything men can do with equal effectiveness; and better than men – so don’t have any tendencies for violence or dishonesty (or any other negative human trait).

    It is a sad indictment of our society that you need to reference 16 documents to state the fucking obvious: that women can be violent and men can be victims in domestic violence.

    • Andy Man

      I love the “treble think” concept. :)

      • Kimski

        I prefer to view that concept as good old fashioned schizophrenia in a new package.

        Excellent work, Mr.Man.


    You did not mention How feminists corrupt Domestic Violence research & warp world politics and legislation. A scientist analyzes how political correctness creates false and misleading research

    I find this most shocking. The smoking gun how feminist attitudes world wide systematically and purposefully FALSIFY academic research. A respected academic researcher showed 7 methods of falsification:

    Method 1. Suppress Evidence

    Method 2. Avoid Obtaining Data Inconsistent with the Patriarchal Dominance Theory

    Method 3. Cite Only Studies That Show Male Perpetration

    Method 4. Conclude That Results Support Feminist Beliefs When They Do Not

    Method 5. Create Evidence by Citation: The Kernsmith study, the World Health Organization report, and the pattern of selective citation show how ideology can be converted into what can be called “evidence by citation” or what Gelles (1980) calls the “woozle effect.” A woozle effect occurs when frequent citation of previous publications that lack evidence mislead us into thinking there is evidence

    Method 6. Obstruct Publication of Articles and Obstruct Funding Research That Might Contradict the Idea that Male Dominance Is the Cause of PV

    Method 7. Harass, Threaten, and Penalize Researchers Who Produce Evidence That Contradicts Feminist Beliefs

    It shocked me profoundly, because I had some trust in academic freedom. If we can not trust academia (I mean outside women’s studies, of course), who can we trust.

    Strangely people here fail to mention this in spite of the fact that the original articles stems from this site AVM. In my extreme disgust, it was shamelessly copied by me (duly linking to the original article), with some additional comments of mine.

    Just sent this off, probably was censored for having 2 links in it (one of them linked to AVM). Resubmitting now with only one link


      Amazing listing. We are awe-struck. With such faulty research based dirty methods, world politics are changed.

      The legislation of nations and continents are changed. Victimization theories, harassment laws, rape legislation, and sexist laws like Violence against WOMEN act are justified.

      Family courts victimize men and prevent the healthy development of their offspring. All this justified by systematical falsification of research!

  • Ray

    Videos are great for confronting the misandrist attitudes our societies use against men, especially in areas like domestic violence law. I have some boiler plate stats I post to MSM news (propaganda) articles I find online, then end the post with:

    “…as shown in “Los Misandry” at Youtube,


    …as shown in “Witch-Hunting Males” at Youtube.”

    I’ve gotten a lot of positive responses, but also some totally insane, raving, hate comments.

    The later is to be expected, considering that many of the worst batterers and abusers who commit domestic violence are actually the gender feminists running the taxpayer funded, domestic violence industry (hate movement). :-/

  • Ray

    Excellent article. Loved it.


    I have always maintained that the reason for the upshoot of female on male violence is because they know that they can get away with it. Simple as that.


  • Gamerp4

    The more the society is shifting the more female on male violence will be reported in the near future, it isn’t that truth is not out yet, it is there like the SUN and MOON but people and political parties (Liberal) & feminists are trying to curtain everything that opposes their views on domestic violence, rape & sexual assault because they are their m-16 that they like to fire every now and often, without these sophisticated weapons, the whole feminist and liberal empire will fall off the deck.

    One thing that does strucks me is how history is manipulated i mean how can One sane person or a group of working minds think that 1/2 of humanity is the aggressive beast in everyday life, Is it believable that everyday a MAN wakes up and Beats, assaults & Rape his wife & every women he finds on every path of his life just to prove the point that he is dominant, oppressive & she is his slave?.

    Recently i saw a video ad of Canadian Women Foundation where “One woman gifts the other woman in a BABY SHOWER a ‘Rape Whistle’ and later in the same video they state that about 2/4 women in canada in their life face rape or sexual harassment” Is this what we have become after 50 years of so called “Equality” call that now We are Trying our best to “Maim” the “Men Beast”? Shouldn’t we just drop the Ball of Socalled “Victim Hood” and think for a second that Man are also flesh and blood, didnt we saw in the news, How a woman in the live media laughs and shrugs of the man who had his penis cut by a psycho woman and later says that if it was her she would have thrown it infront of the dog, “Is there nothing wrong with her calling for male castration in the live media, does it amuses the live public when a male is harmed, injured or killed.

    The last thing i want to say is that there isn’t any humanity left in majority of the women today, they are the hunter and the men are the hunted, just like Renuka Chaudhry (The Indian Feminist Politician) said sometimes ago that “I Dont care about the men, i just want them drop dead thats what is needed”. So she as a politician can fantasize about half of humanity to drop dead and there is nothing wrong in that, well lets see how you curtain the Sun and Moon because the more you try to hide the truth, the more obvious and absurd your stats about DV, Rape and Sexual Assualt will look.

    Last I am bookmarking it for future analysis, Thanks again Andy.

  • The Real Peterman

    Way back when one of the very first women’s shelters was founded, the woman who founded it discovered that men are just as likely to suffer domestic violence as women. Feminists, of course, would have none of this. For daring to suggest women could be violent, they made death threats against her–so there!

    • Gamerp4

      Yes and she even received Death Threats for it, How absurd that The Victims were called on their lies and they drew the guns from their back, all that Victim Hood just went out the window because “Their opponent” was not a man but a Woman (A Brave one i must say), as i said you cannot curtain the Sun and Moon for far too long.

  • Dr. F

    Thank you Andy Man.

    This is exactly what I have been looking for.

    My parents are hard core electric blue pillars and recently I noticed a very slight moment where they listened to me.

    It was fleeting yet it gave me impetus to try again and this article here is exactly what I will be showing them.

  • Codebuster

    … but, but… what about the children?

    Child abuse is domestic violence.

    Women are the primary perpetrators of child abuse.

    Children first learn violence from their primary nurturer.

  • keyster

    I hate DV statistics and studies because they take a volatile, charged, nebulous interaction and make it into a number. Feminists have redefined “violence” to mean anything from a threatening stare to all out physical assault.

    In very rare situations is a woman ever going to literally dominate a man physically, to the point he’s helpless and can’t defend himself from her attacks. More typically it’s that he’s afraid if he DOES try to defend himself (or heaven forbid, strike back in retaliation), he’ll be the one that goes to jail, and he knows it.

    Ironically it’s DV Law that is perpetuating female on male DV, because women feel they can initiate it with impunity…and the man is rendered defenseless out of fear of, not her, but her proxy enforcers. The most powerful weapon she has are three words, “He hit me.”

    Somehow a man saying “She hit me.”, doesn’t quite carry the same weight…in the views of the law and public opinion. That’s the power of feminist propaganda.

    If you’re in the company of an hysterical woman prone to violence the best thing you can do is call the police as a preemptive measure, so they can witness her demeanor compared to yours, should she bruise an arm while flailing about later.

    • kiwihelen

      Dr F (I think) had a guest recently who pointed out that with the obesity epidemic there are more women who outweigh their spouse. This was my beloved’s situation. I work in community health and would concur that this is increasingly common. Between that, socialisation not to hit women and the police, do we wonder why men keep their silence.

      • The Real Peterman

        I’ve seen talk shows where men claim to have been battered by their wives, and the host and audience laugh at them. Who wants to be laughed at?

    • Raven01

      Good point on proof of behaviour keyster.
      Video works as well. That guy in Florida could easily have been charged had there not been video of (I think it was) his mother-in-law attacking and eventually shooting him.
      Without video that guy faced a double whammy of deifying women and castle doctrine gone wrong.

  • Dean Esmay

    Great article, well-referenced, very much in line with much other extensive research.

    While the article itself is great (and great video by the way), I have to take issue with one thing: by banging exclusively on the Gender-Feminists, you’re missing half the equation and even, to a certain extent, making a few enemies you don’t need to make.

    The fact of the matter is that conservative traditionalists are at least as culpable in all this. Although we’re seeing a few Republicans come around somewhat, we see over and over again how many so-called conservatives practically trip over their own feet to “protect women” under almost any circumstances, whether that woman needs it, deserves it, or occasionally, whether she even WANTS it.

    While we can spend as much time as we want cataloging the horrid statements and actions of some feminists, we cannot let these become the target of rage; they are merely one data point in a slew of problematic attitudes and assumptions.

    In fact one thing I would love to see the MRA community doing more of is less complaining about this or that group they don’t like, and concentrating more on positive, concrete things that need changing. Anger can be justified and can feel good but if it is not put to productive cause, or if it focuses on only one nebulous enemy, it does no good. Just trying to define “feminism” is like nailing Jell-O to the wall. It is an exercise in frustration. Instead, we should be focusing on raising awareness and a positive agenda for change.

    If you spend time reading the life and history of Martin Luther King, how many times do you remember him calling out white people as enemies, or even calling people “racists?” Extremely little actually. It was all about a positive agenda: This is wrong, this must be fixed, all we ask for is to be treated the same as anyone else. That’s a pretty good model.

    Just my two cents.

    • The Real Peterman

      I think you have a point. MLK spoke against racism but not against the people practicing it. That’s like what goes on when people speak against feminism but not feminists. And I sure don’t want to see people consumed by anger, though if you are angry that’s your right, as long as you channel it in a healthy way.

      And positive force is necessary, but when there’s a wall in the way it often has to be knocked down before we can build something to replace it. For instance, a lot of well-meaning people think men don’t suffer from domestic violence, so we have to batter down that obstacle before we can get shelters for men established.

      • Ray


        Gender feminism, essentially believes that gender is a construct, that gender roles are created by society, that gender roles benefit all males (privilege), and oppress all females, and that in a “Patriarchal society,” men use violence to maintain their privilege and oppress all females – hence the term “gender based violence.” Given the real statistics about violence, it becomes clear that the belief system of gender feminism is provably just a hate movement.

        The fact that biological mothers are provably such preeminent “kid killers” proves (all by itself), that “gender based violence” is a whopper of a lie, and the violence against women act (VAWA) is an enormous fraud. So when is Eric Holder going to start prosecuting Joe Biden, Patrick Leahy and their gender feminist ilk???

        Go to the web site, then click the ‘lumber button,’ then scroll down to ‘domestic violence’ for links to stats showing the veracity of these claims.

        # When police officers perform their duties like “good German soldiers,” then I question whether America is still free.

        # When corrupt gender feminist lies about domestic violence are used to train police to violate the freedoms and rights of innocent men, then it’s time for Nuremberg like trials for those who chose to carry out that evil – “just being good German soldiers,” IMO.

        It’s time to confront (peaceably) all the thugs who support gender feminism, IMO.

        • Ray

          “It’s time to confront (peaceably) all the thugs who support gender feminism, IMO.”

          Make that, “(peaceably, but assertively)”

        • Dean Esmay

          I agree with you completely that the Gender-Feminists (I assume we’re both using the term the same way that Christina Hoff-Sommers came up with) are off in crazy land about gender being entirely a “social construct” and that this nebulous thing called “The Patriarchy” brutally oppresses women etc. etc. That’s crazy stuff, and it’s SEXIST stuff. It’s hateful to its core, although I’m not convinced that everyone who believes that stuff is hateful so much as misguided. (Yes, some are haters, but some, they’re just young and dumb and they’ve never had those assumptions even questioned, so they just accept them without thinking).

          But I’ll bring it back around to the traditionalists: I’ve actually TALKED to cops and had one tell me point blank that he’d done many domestic violence calls and claimed he had “never” seen a case of a female perpetrator or a male victim. When pressed, he said that he invariably and always found that if the woman had hit the man, he had done “something to deserve it.” It was mindblowing, it went straight to everything we all know about the domestic violence industry: it’s incredibly misandrist. The marginalization of male victims is unconscionable.

          But–THIS COP WAS NO FEMINIST. He was a traditionalist macho man, a non-feminist, “protect the females” type. He was no male-feminist White Knight, he was a conservative old-fashioned guy who believed if a man got hurt by a woman he had it coming.

          I mean, we can’t think these disparities happened SOLELY due to the feminists right? Whatever their power in certain areas, these powerful assumptions of males as aggressors and females as victims go back a LONG way, and seem culturally ingrained at multiple levels. If we just lay it all at the feet of the Gender Feminists, then, well, to me, that’s like looking a World War II and saying “Our enemy was Italy.” Um, no, Italy was AN enemy. As I recall, there were a few other countries involved in that fight besides Italy.

          • Ray

            “I mean, we can’t think these disparities happened SOLELY due to the feminists right?”

            Wrong, gender feminist conceived VAWA is the root cause and those traditionalist cops you refer to are their half wit toadies, along with feminist trained (through VAWA STOP grants) prosecutors and judges.

            Sorry, no excusing those “good German soldiers,” “just following orders” today, or any day. Through gender feminist conceived VAWA, the law castigates innocent men. The true criminals (gender feminists, their ilk, and their toadies) should be imprisoned for the fraud and mayhem they’ve committed against those innocent men. That stance is not going to change and I don’t consider those who hold to less than that to be adherents of Constitutional equal rights and equal justice. :-/

            “Los Misandry” at Youtube,

            “Witch-Hunting Males” at Youtube.

          • Dean Esmay

            Ray: VAWA was authored by Joe Biden and passed by overwhelming bipartisan majorities in both houses of Congress. It had broad support in both political parties and from a number of political groups not generally identified as “feminist.” It had a number of conservative, traditionalist supporters.

            Ingrained cultural attitudes that women must be protected and men must be trained to protect them were around long before that act even existed. They were already in place when I was a child, where I was taught these things: women are weak and must be protected from abusive men. The household I grew up in was conservative and traditionalist, not liberal or feminist–indeed, my parents viewed feminists with contempt, as did many of the others in my family, yet the overwhelming message of “women as victims, men as perpetrators” was already well-established. And I was born in 1966, if you care.

            If you look at some of Girlwriteswhat’s videos and articles, she’s shown over and over again how laws prohibiting violence against women in particular go back CENTURIES. Well before anyone even invented a word called “feminism.”

      • Dean Esmay

        I agree completely.

        If we look at the civil rights struggle for blacks in the 1950s and 1960s, the two most iconic figures are Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. I would recommend that ANY and EVERY MRA read The Autobiography of Malcolm X (note: Malcolm is one of my personal heroes and inspirations) and also study the Reverend King’s writings and speeches. At times I think the very angry MRAs are serving the role that Malcolm X did: to raise awareness through righteous anger and fury. But at some point even Malcolm realized that it was sometimes doing more harm than good, and also that he’d had some mistaken attitudes and ideas, and toward the end of his life he was working hard to change it. (Really, do yourself a favor, read that book as soon as you can, all the way through. It’s heroic, and tragic.)

        But then you look at Dr. King, and he never demonized anyone. Indeed, he practiced love of his enemies, talked to them on their own terms, about equality, about decency, about judging a person on their merits not external factors they can’t control.

        At times I think the two of them together wound up creating something: people didn’t like, and were afraid of, the angry Malcolm, but he made them think. But they looked to Martin, who tugged at their conscience, and their shared values, and they said “he’s right.”

        I think we’d even be doing ourselves a favor to just use the plain old term “sexism” more often when addressing MR issues. Domestic violence laws aren’t “feminist” laws, they’re SEXIST laws, at least as they’re currently implemented. Indeed, not only do they hurt MEN, they often hurt women, women who get the wrong sort of help either because they’re the aggressors, or the relationship is mutually aggressive, but the woman is coddled (and is not helped by being coddled) and the man is imprisoned when really what’s happening is they BOTH need help.

  • Dean Esmay

    By the way to clarify myself: the actual article here does NOT bang on feminists at all I notice. Which gets a thumbs-up from me. I only notice it in some of the commenters–and I’m not chastising you guys or telling you what to do or say or think, just trying to SUGGEST: identifying an opponent is much less effective than saying “this is the agenda for change we want to see.”

    That’s all. Please don’t be too mad at me. 😉

    • HurleyHacker


      Nobody is stopping you from being that “Positive” force out there. Lots of luck with that one. Oh yeah did I mention that this is a WAR.

      • andybob

        I agree completely with Mr Hacker. This is a war.

        We cannot avoid dealing with feminists directly because they have insisted on making the personal, political. Feminism is an freeform ideology that can be tailored to suit the individual needs of its followers. It has no reality beyond the fears, feelings and fantasies of those who embrace it. Feminists love feminism because it has no principals, just like them.

        After reading some of Mr Esmay’s blog, it is clear that he is a reasonable, fair-minded and intelligent man. His call for a clean, gentlemanly war against feminism – no firing on Christmas Day and all that – simply won’t work. We have to deal with the fact that the greed, cruelty and corruption of feminism emanates from the cold, hate-filled cores of feminists themselves.

        The red pill can be bitter to swallow, but at least it makes you see clearly. Feminists must be met head-on regardless of how messy it gets.

        • Dr. F


          Matey you are nipping and snapping tonight.

          I take one look at that surgeon’s mask and I just know that there is is the precision and carvery of an operating room’s best scalpel whirring artisan on hand.

          Sorry about that feminists, but the man is on our side.

          Good on yer mate.

        • Dean Esmay

          Hurley: I want to make it clear to you that I feel your frustration and have often felt your cynicism. I have been thinking and writing on these issues, on and off, for many years, and have been viciously savaged and distorted many times by people who self-identify as feminists. There can be no question that there are some really horribly sexist misandrists out there. But without getting too much into the “NAFALT” argument, I really have met sweet, decent, civil women who self-identify as “feminist” and take much of what MRAs say as self-evidently true even though they have yet to take the red pill and haven’t really seen, as yet, just how deep the rabbit hole goes. These are women we want to reach, just as 50 years ago those who fought against racism needed to reach out to people who had bad assumptions about who just needed to be shook out of their preconceptions. There’s a reason the Klan is now a tiny fraction of the size it once was: people began to realize deep down just what the Klansmen stood for and began to realize this was not acceptable.

          People who advocate for men, like us, get used to being mocked, derided, marginalized, sneered at, laughed at, joked about, threatened, harassed, fired from jobs, sometimes even assaulted. None of this is funny. It is EXTREMELY difficult not to become bitter, hateful, resentful–but I would note that resentment is a poison that can start to consume you.

          And I think changes are possible. In some states in the US, the DV situation is improving–not improving enough if you ask me, but it IS improving. There used to be NO shelters that offered help to men, but there are now SOME.

          Plus I will leave you with this video (I hope it doesn’t get trapped in spam or whatever) from a guy who gave a TED talk who, believe it or not, wasn’t boo’d off the stage. This is a guy who’s active and GETTING GOOD THINGS DONE. We should cheer about that.

    • Andy Man

      Dean – I’m not mad at you, just the opposite–I found it highly amusing how you accused me of “banging exclusively on the Gender-Feminist” agenda, only then to realise that the article did’t even mention feminism at all. :)

      The thing is, I completely agree with you. Simply screaming “Fuck feminism!” at people who genuinely believe that feminism is all about equalilty is an exercise in futility at best.

      • Dean Esmay

        Andy: Yeah but your video DID go on and on about feminism I noted. Although I had to go looking at it. Anyway I think I clarified what I meant. I hope I did anyway.

        • Andy Man

          >Anyway I think I clarified what I meant.

          I’m not sure I follow you? There is no video in this article.

          You must be referring to a previous video I did. Even in that, I don’t bang on about a feminist agenda at all.

    • Raven01

      Seek equal government funding for battered men’s shelters then buddy.
      One group will try to shout you down.
      Just as it is now socially unacceptable to be a member of the hate group the KKK, we must also make it unacceptable to be a member of the hate group known as feminists.
      At one time the KKK was seen by many as a mostly harmless “bunch of good ol’boys” with a few bad apples mixed in. Now, no one would suggest such a thing and almost everyone would call out their bigotry.
      When we have that happen to female supremacists you will find positive change for men will come about much faster.

      I am by no means suggesting not trying to bring about positive change right now. Every effort helps.
      But, with respect, ripping on haters such as feminists is an honourable act. Doing so with forethought rather than infantile attacks will further our common goal of giving everyone a fair shake.

  • Ben

    Yesterday there was a two hour radio program in my area about men’s violence against women. The guests were attorney giant Richard Schwartz, a judge, and a woman named Sandy, who is the director of the Office of Violence Against Women at our state’s Attorney General’s office. I could only listen in total disgust as a full blown war on men was launched in my city over the radio. I wish there was some way that I could at least stop the floodgates of misinformation here at what is starting to look like a radical feminist’s Mecca. Several men even called in and asked for advice on how to restrain themselves from beating other men to death when they see a woman with a black eye. The judge on the show told these male callers that he could “definitely identify with them”. I wish I had a tape of the show. I don’t know if the violence against women radio show is going to be a weekly show or not but I sure hope not.

    • Ben

      Specifically, I remember that Sandy said that due to growing up with domestic violence, the boys are more likely to be abusers themselves while the girls are more likely to pick abusive partners. The next time this show comes on the air, I will let everyone know and we will tie up their phone lines and take turns FTSU on the air.

    • Dean Esmay

      Not to give you a hard time or beat a dead horse Ben, but: do you really think it was JUST the feminist mindset that was spreading this? You sure there wasn’t ALSO some good “old-fashioned” “conservative” “traditionalist” mentality behind a lot of that?

      I’ve talked to SOOO many men (and women) who snort at feminism who ALSO take this same line on “violence against women” that you describe. You haven’t?

      Once again, I note that World War II wasn’t JUST a fight against Italy. 😉

      • Ben

        I would say there was a huge overtone of conservative / traditionalist mentality present. In fact, I would bet that nearly none of the guests, callers, or the host identify as “feminists”. To only identify feminists as the belligerents is to put too fine a point on it — I totally agree with you.

        I also think that they were just spouting what this culture trains them to spout. Most people are not independent thinkers. That radio cast were all just talking heads who are puppets for the demagogues in the abuse industry and don’t even know it. And, they can’t be told anything either because their egos won’t allow it, especially by an undergrad student. That is why I am slowly walking away and deciding to just nod and smile when I hear this kind of thing. You get slammed HARD and shamed if you mention men’s rights or try to debunk the domestic violence lies. People WANT to have an “enemy” — a big strong man beating a little, pretty woman triggers everyone’s reptile brain and gets them fired up for a primal, histrionic nirvana. Misandry is like a religion, but even more enrapturing. When you take away the man-as-perpetrator / woman-as-victim paradigm, you are taking their relgion away from them.

      • Ray

        “Not to give you a hard time or beat a dead horse Ben, but: do you really think it was JUST the feminist mindset that was spreading this? You sure there wasn’t ALSO some good “old-fashioned” “conservative” “traditionalist” mentality behind a lot of that?”

        Frankly, I think you’ve got your head buried in the sand not to understand, that OVERWHELMINGLY it’s gender feminism that’s the root cause of the present, taxpayer funded, domestic violence hate war against men. So why do you keep trying to minimize gender feminism’s role?

        And yes, they (feminists) have ignorant conservative toadies who carry water for them, unqestioning their lies, but they’re not the primary (driving) force.

        • keyster

          Keep telling them Ray.
          One day they’ll have to look in the mirror.
          The straining to blame Conservatism for Feminist governance is often palpable.

          They want to “progress” the natural/traditional order of civilization into a gender egalitarian utopia. They think feminists will one day realize feminism isn’t fair to men and seek atonement through policy change. LOL!

          Men have been utilities since the dawn of time. We need to enlighten civilization to the fact that this isn’t fair, because women have greater value.

          Meanwhile the Gender-Feminist/Marxist agenda marches on in our halls of legislative-jurisprudence.

        • Dean Esmay

          Laws prohibiting violence against women go back many centuries. If you like, I’ll dig up some examples for you, there are a ton of them. Going back to way before this country was even a country in fact.

          As I mentioned elsewhere, I was taught the “male perpetrator/female victim” model when I was a very small child, growing up in the late 1960s. In a family that viewed feminism with dismissal if not contempt; my quite conservative stepdad used to love to rag on feminists and my mom thought they were stupid. But the female-victim/male-brute model? Firmly in place from my very earliest memories.

          • Ray

            “Ray: VAWA was authored by Joe Biden and passed by overwhelming bipartisan majorities in both houses of Congress.”

            Your over obvious attempt to misdirect is pathetic. I said, “OVERWHELMINGLY it’s gender feminism that’s the root cause of the present, taxpayer funded, domestic violence hate war against men.”

            Joe Biden and his gender feminist ilk were the ORIGINATORS of misandrist VAWA, and after they ORIGINATED that front in the hate war against men, conservatives acquiesced in the name of “law and order” to all the fraudulent stats and propaganda that were bandied about unopposed. Your lies of omission are LIES none the less. I’m not buying you liberal lies today, or any day. VAWA is the left’s as Biden has cited his ownership, “my baby,” so stop lying about it.

      • TheMoralGodless

        Dean, there are about 150 gazillion articles and comments on this website alone that call out chivalry and traditionalism for being part of the problem.

        This is not a productive argument to persuade us that we should give feminism a pass.

        • Dean Esmay

          Yes indeed, but you have copious others who don’t do that. See, for example, the linked videos and some of the comments above.

          I have been writing about and giving money to equal, non-genderized treatment for domestic violence victims for more than a decade. Conservative traditionalists are as bad as the Gender Feminists on this question in my experience. I don’t think I’ve got my head buried in the sand; maybe I do, and my experiences are unique or I’m deluded. Or maybe what I’m saying is true.

          • Englishwoman

            I totally agree that domestic violence against men is a terrible thing. I am also convinced that men are often so ashamed of tolerating DV that they don’t tell anyone, and therefore domestic violence against men is under-reported, just as rape always was (and still is, to some extent. I understand DV between lesbian couples is also under-reported, for the same reason.

            However I cannot see that DV against men is anything to do with feminism. Feminism brought DV against women out of the closet, We forget how recent the provision of shelters for battered women and children is. Back in the 1950s a terrorised and beaten woman had nowhere to turn if family couldn’t or wouldn’t help. Feminism allowed women to speak out against DV. That was a good, good thing.

            Now, as time’s gone on, the male victims of DV are finally coming forward. Like male rape victims. they feel a terrible, totally undeserved shame. It’s true of women too, but even worse for men,

            Feminism says we’re all equal: so male victims of DV are just as deserving of support and shelters as female ones. But I think men should remember that the process of “speaking out” against the hidden crimes of sexual abuse and DV in the family was started by feminists. As men come into the light, and speak out they are continuing that feminist process.

            Men can be victims of DV. No doubt. But the crime figures for murder and serious violence make it clear that it is women who make up most of the casualties.

            Trying to say it’s a unisex crime, that women are just as guilty, simply isn’t so, and it weakens your argument to ignore the greater physical strength and level of aggression present in men. Men commit far more violent crimes than women do, both inside and outside the home. That’s just how it is.

  • Auntie Pheminizm

    > “the feminist ploy of “violence against women” , sadly the situation is echoed here in Australia”



    How do you think this happened?

    Feminists said men sucked the Big One. Men, maligned as supreme a-holes, did what?


    ‘Nuff said.

    If someone calls you a douchebag, and you don’t counter them, well you confirm their accusation because, well, you acted like a…douchebag.

    It’s pretty simple. When one group attacks another and the attacked folks don’t respond, guess who wins?

  • Auntie Pheminizm

    > “I hope the shelter works out.”

    Men: willing victims.

    Decades ago an MRA offered his farm in Canada as a haven for abused men.

    The response from the MRM?


    We get the pain we put up with.

    Until men are willing to act, do more than palaver online, nothing will change.

    Feminism know this. And count on male passivity.

    The reason men are in the soup we’re in is because we tolerate it. More accurately, guys will suffer any and all amount of pain rather than be seen “attacking women.”

    This lets women’s groups attack us like shooting fish in a barrel.

    Guys must like it.

    They must feel it’s better to be slimed than be ignored by Mummy.

    There’s no pain suffered by feminists who inflict pain on os. Instead of fighting back, we bloviate about our wounds.


    And needless.

    Alas, men didn’t see fit to protest 50 years of ever-increasing misandry. Do you REALLY expect our torturers to give a shite about us now?

    The reason mass media ignore us is we’ve done little to attract reporters.

    The problem…and solution…is in the mirror.

    • Dean Esmay

      Auntie: Setting up a single shelter somewhere in North America won’t work. Cultural attitudes in general have to change. Hopefully the internet will help make that shift possible with time.

  • Auntie Pheminizm

    > “I hate DV statistics and studies”


    Where is the MRM rebuttal?

    > “they take a volatile, charged, nebulous interaction and make it into a number.”

    And it works. Because men let it.

    > “Feminists have redefined ‘violence’ to mean anything from a threatening stare to all out physical assault.”

    And we men let their definitions stand.

    If I stand up at a town meeting and say you have carnal knowledge of sheep, and you say nothing, guess what: you get perceived as a wooly lover.

    Feminism is only half the problem. The other half is men who let feminists frame issues to men’s detriment.

  • Auntie Pheminizm

    > “But then you look at Dr. King, and he never demonized anyone.”

    Not so sure. Before he was murdered Martin had a lot of second-thoughts. He also admitted the benefit of having Malcolm play “bad cop.”

    Malcolm himself came to understand that “whiteness” didn’t equate with racism. And that blacks could be racist, too. In fact, I think he was killed because he thought Farrakhan (“Calypso Louie” acted like a Grand Kleagle of the KKK.

  • Englishwoman

    Domestic violence against anyone is wrong. Absolutely no doubt on that. And I’ve known people of both sexes who’ve been victims. But this blog entry doesn’t convince. What qualifies as domestic violence can cover a very wide range of behaviour. I’ve seen leaflets that include shouting as a form of violence. One of the basic facts is the strength of men relative to the strength of women. If it’s irrelevant then why do we split the sexes in sport? Can women not slam a tennis ball as hard the guys? Well, we know the answer to that. Fear is a major component of domestic violence. How terrified is a 200 pound guy of a 120 pound woman? Unless she’s got a gun, of course. We don’t have that problem round here, thank goodness.

    So domestic violence is just people of both sexes hitting each other. Is there’s no truth in the idea that it’s largely women who are the victims, or that they’re more likely to be seriously injured? Can it really be true that battered women are a myth? That they don’t need shelters? That they’re stupid to fear their ex and his obsession with revenge?

    If you wanna establish the truth about who’s battering who, let’s look at the bottom line. What do the murder statistics tell us? When the police are called to a domestic murder how likely is it that the corpse is female?

    The answer is… Well, here’s the stats:

    In 2007, 1.9% of all homicides and 2.4% of the men murdered were murdered by intimates (138 were the husband or ex, and 150 were the boyfriend (or ex)).

    Total murders for 2007 were about 5-7 per 100,000 in the population, and women were murdered by intimate partners at a rate of about 1-3 per 100,000 (2005 data)

    As far as race, white, black, immaterial. The data s how that there is a constant proportion of white AND black girlfriends, wives, and ex’s who are murdered.

    As far as the “but women do it too” crowd, save it. Women are murdered about 5x times as often as men (for intimate partner homicide.

    Killing your ex and kids is about revenge and control. We know there is a constant, knowable, predictable pattern if we look hard enough. Yet, still, there is the “truthiness” element: we feel that it takes two to tango, she must have been asking for it, etc. With the internet, we can see, when a man decides to kill the 8 year old to get back at the ex-wife, the entire community is stained, a touched by evil-ness. Your kids go to school knowing that their friend is buried because his daddy killed him. Do you want to live in that kind of community? Let’s clean this one up.

    This is from a learned journal, Neurological Correlates

    British research, from the Women’s Aid site (, is as follows:

    • Women are much more likely than men to be the victim of multiple incidents of abuse, and of sexual violence: 32% of women who had ever experienced domestic violence did so four or five (or more) times, compared with 11% of the (smaller number) of men who had ever experienced domestic violence; and women constituted 89% of all those who had experienced 4 or more incidents of domestic violence. (Walby and Allen, 2004)
    • On average 2 women a week are killed by a male partner or former partner: this constitutes around one-third of all female homicide victims. (Povey, (ed.), 2004, 2005; Home Office, 1999; Department of Health, 2005.)

    Soo… Women are five times more likely to be murdered by their partner than to murder him. This kinda puts the “who is battering who” argument to rest.

    • kiwihelen

      You ask how scared a 200lb man can be of a 120lb woman.


      If she has threatened to kill herself and the children, should he report to anyone that he is a victim of her domestic abuse.

      If she threatens to drag him through the courts with false acusations of inappropriate behaviour to the children. The accusation doesn’t even have to stick. By the time the social workers etc have had their field day, that man’s reputation has been so besmirched that people believe there must be some substance to the claim in the first place.

      You say the problem is men are afraid and ashamed to admit they are victims of domestic violence. I suggest the problem is worse than that – they are disbelieved.

      I have great empathy for any survivor of domestic violence. It’s not a gender issue. It is about poverty, drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness and social disadvantage.

      We can throw round numbers or we can start creating a fair and equitable system which allows all people who are in violent relationships the chance to change their circumstance.

      • Englishwoman

        Kiwihele: You replied to my point “How scared a 200lb man can be of a 120lb woman?”

        With: “Plenty.”

        “If she has threatened to kill herself and the children, should he report to anyone that he is a victim of her domestic abuse….”

        Good points. You’re right. However, when you go on to say “We can throw round numbers” I feel this too readily accepts the polemic of the blog post which seeks to diminish the fact that women are the main victims of DV. Ignoring the male role in this is not a small thing. Ignoring it perpetuates the violence.

        I agree that we need “a fair and equitable system which allows all people who are in violent relationships the chance to change their circumstance.” However I don’t think we’ll get there without confronting the beliefs that fuel what one might call classic end-stage DV: the murder of a woman who has finally escaped abuse (this is the most dangerous time for DV victims) and those men who annihilate their families on the basis that if he can’t have them, no one can. The psychology of these offenders shows they think of their wives and children as possessions.

        There is a well-known DV dynamic that has its basis in mysogyny, whereby a man is entitled to hit his woman. This is still acceptable in many communities. It only became illegal quite recently. The man treats the woman with contempt. She is less than him, and she is his property. The woman colludes in submission and self-hatred. This is classic patriarchal stuff, and it needs dismantling. Eradicating this is the responsibility of every parent of boys. I feel that victims should be told how much it matters that they leave. A woman who tolerates abuse is harming her children.

        • Dean Esmay

          Where we would not agree, Englishwoman, is with the contention that “women are the main victims of DV.” This is a highly questionable assertion on multiple levels.

          Like you, I once uncritically accepted the view that men feel entitled to hit women. This turns out to be a lie. Like you, I also once uncritically accepted the view that “patriarchy” is at the root of domestic violence. This is also a lie.

          An enormous amount of study shows that women are just as likely to be violent in abusive relationships as men are. They also show that male victims are routinely ignored, laughed at, or not believed. Study also shows that the vast majority of violent child abuse is committed by women, not men.

          It takes a lot of time to unlearn widespread cultural falsehoods. The image of the brutal dominant patriarchal man beating a helpless victim woman is a gross stereotype that is often wildly at odds with reality. It’s sexist, and demeaning toward both women and men alike. The truth is far more complex, and deeply buried by ideologues who do their best to ignore data that goes against this set of cultural assumptions you and so many people espouse and believe. While I have no doubt your intentions are good ones, you have been led to believe a lot of things that are not true. Realizing that is the first step toward meaningful change.

          • Englishwoman

            While I’m sure there is unreported DV against men — after all we know there’s unreported DV against all ages and both sexes, I’m afraid the research does not support your assertions, It’s no good saying ” An enormous amount of study” supports your contention when in fact what’s known about violent crime flatly contradicts you.

            Let’s go to that bottom line again. Ignore slaps or nagging: let’s look at homicidal violence. Were women the most violent in relationships (as you claim) we’d expect them to kill both men and children. Crime statistics give us the plain facts: men are five times more likely to kill their partner than women are, and when women do kill, it may be in response to years of abuse.

            Men are generally much more violent than women. The stats show this. Women commit less than 13 percent of all violent crimes in the United States. Given that we know women commit a much lower rate of violent crime than men, your claim of some hidden iceberg of female violence just doesn’t make sense,

            The only area in which women are violent in a way that approaches men is in killing their own children which, in women, is typically a result of postpartum illness. In the UK the murder of a child younger than 12 months by its mother is covered by the Infanticide Act, which classifies such a crime as manslaughter in recognition of the effects of childbirth.

            I am sure the third of Middle Eastern women who are regularly beaten by their husbands, and the thousands of victims of dowry murders every year will appreciate the thought that it’s really men who are the hidden victims. One of the things that’s striking about this blog is its blinkered focus on the culture and mores of developed world. What is known about DV in the developing world and in our own history makes a nonsense of your claim that men are the primary victims of violence in the home and that it’s women who are the aggressor. In vast swathes of the world beating your wife not only isn’t a crime, it’s accepted.

        • kiwihelen

          As a survivor of domestic abuse myself, I know some men abuse. I also know the statistics about the high risk time period around leaving – and I have seen men experiencing an escalation of DV at that same period of time – with no place to go.

          Some men believe they are entitled to abuse. So do some women in my experience, but worse they don’t see what they are doing (including physical violence, unwanted sexual attention, verbal abuse, financial abuse, alienation of the children) as abuse. We need to teach all people regardless of gender about respecting other’s personhood.

          You say “a woman who tolerates abuse is harming her children”.

          How about – any parent who tolerates abuse is harming their children.

          You say that the abused person colludes by staying and that their reasoning is based on self hatred and submission reinforced by the patriarchy. This is an incredibly simplistic assessment. Those who remain in violent situations do so for a myriad of reasons. One common problem I find amongst victims of domestic abuse they think they can “solve” the problem by “doing more/better/differently”. Some victims stay because they see the relationship they are in as “normal”. Repeatedly, I find amongst male survivors that they don’t even know they are being abused until they google “crazy wife/girlfriend” and end up learning about female on male domestic abuse

          As part of my job, I have a mandatory responsibility to report to social services and/or police situations where a child or a vulnerable adult (vulnerabilty being conferred by physical or mental health issues or disability on a temporary or permanent basis) is at risk.

          I have done this and I will continue to do so. For those who are not covered by mandatory reporting, I signpost and explain safe practice for chosing to leave. The problem I have is I have no where other than one website and phone line in the UK where I can direct a man for help if he is a victim of domestic violence. Even if the rates of DV for men are as low as you seem to suggest, this is an area of an unmet need.

          It is my nature to be an activist. I prefer to do rather than talk about things like this. Hence my distaste for throwing numbers around. Even one person experiencing domestic abuse is one too many. It is not a gendered issue. It is a human rights issue.

  • Otter

    Dude in my experience from a playful level to actual intent to harm women are far more likely to engage in violence. Hands down. I saw ONE guy throw a girl against a locker over a decade ago, since then I’ve seen women slap, bite, throw stuff at, punch, and kick men over… and over… and over.