Child-Abuse

Putting Faces on Victims – Stories of child abuse and domestic violence: When the political becomes personal

For 13 years I worked as a case manager and investigator handling child abuse cases for one of the largest child welfare agencies in the U.S.. During that time I saw the results of some of the most horrific violence and abuse imaginable.

I saw the striped scars from shoulder to heal on the back and legs of a 9 year old boy who had been beaten by his mother with an extension cord on multiple occasions. I listened to his mother after she had undergone parent training and counseling tell me in no uncertain terms that if he needed it, she would do it again. I sat with my jaw dropped in horror as I hung up the phone after learning that the judge in the case had sent the boy home to live with her against my recommendations. I often wonder what became of him.

I saw the bruising around the lips of a 10 year old girl. It had been caused by her own tongue as she incessantly licked them, unable to stop due to emotional problems after suffering physical and sexual abuse from her father and grandmother who also made her, her older brothers, and younger sister compete with the dog for food by throwing leftovers onto the back porch. The children weren’t permitted in the house. They were kept in the garage and given a 5-gallon plastic bucket to use for a toilet.

I saw the tears on the face of a 12 year old boy who had been cowering in the corner, curled into a little ball crying from the fear that his new social worker would be a woman and the tentative smile on his face when he saw that I was a man. The boy wouldn’t speak. His father told me that he had requested the case be re-assigned to a male because his son was afraid of women after having been molested by his mother and her girlfriend who had also forced him to have sex with his younger sister and had videotaped everything. The sister was institutionalized.

I sat and listened while a 6 year old girl told me she hated her father for what he had done to her, all the while calling him horrible names. Then, when asked about what her father had done, she described playing with him in the park, being taken to Disneyland , and going to movies. When asked whether he had ever hurt her, she said “no.” She eventually said that she hated him because her mother had told her to hate him. Her mother wasn’t nearly as shy about it. In between a string of expletives that would have made any sailor proud, I gathered that this guy was a cross between Ed Gein, Jeffery Dahmer, and Charles Manson.

I can go on. I can tell you about the couple whose 5 children were up for adoption because they wouldn’t stop fighting each other. I can tell you that the children’s father showed me two scars, one on his back, the other on his thigh, both the result of being stabbed by his wife. The two of them joked about it as though it were no big deal. He deserved it. He provoked it. He would flirt with other women until she would beat him senseless.

He did it because the makeup sex was incredible. Meanwhile, it cost them their children who they claimed to love more than anything.

I can tell you about the two little girls who witnessed their mother shoot their father as he slept, once in the groin and once in the head. It was shortly after the Lorena Bobbitt case and she claimed that the father had been sexually abusing the children. There was no evidence of it. The girls denied it. There were no reports to law enforcement or children’s services. She couldn’t even produce a single witness to testify that she had told anyone prior to killing the man. At her trial, she plead guilty to some lesser charge and got off with time served, a year in the county jail.

And the mother who shot and killed her husband while her daughters looked on? Her case was back in the system several years later.This time she had been sentenced to 25 years to life for the murder of her mother over money and having her new husband dispose of the body. He’s serving 12-25 while the two girls and a new half-brother are in foster care.

What does each of these cases have in common aside from being some of the most horrific cases I had to deal with during my years of service?

In two words: domestic violence.

Domestic violence is frequently categorized as man beating woman. Only men commit this atrocity, only women are its victims. If women are violent, it must be because she is defending herself or her children. That’s what many in the industry will tell you. What I will tell you is that not one of these cases was like that. I handled some that were, but most were not. In most cases that I handled that involved DV, the DV was mutual. In some it was the woman abusing the man.

In the first case of the boy beaten with the extension cord the boy’s father was in jail, having been convicted of hitting the mother. I read the police report. I read the court testimony. I might as well have been reading an Orwellian novel. The mother was beating the boy, again. She was high on methamphetamines. The father intervened to try and stop it. She then hit him, with the cord. He finally punched, knocking her out. He called the police who then arrested him, not her.

The boy was striped from head to tow and removed from her care. She was never charged.

The case of the girl with the bruised lips is the worst case I have ever seen. The two parents had eight children. The first four grew to adulthood before they had the second four. They had abused all eight. According to one of the adult daughters, her mother would beat them and their father. The sexual abuse happened on nights when their mother would kick their father out of the bedroom, usually after being quite violent.

The girls would try to take care of him, often having to stop some bleeding. To quote her “Things would get romantic after that.” The father once told me that he had been molested by his own mother beginning at the age of twelve. In fact, he fathered his own sister at the age of fifteen.

In the case of the boy who was afraid of women, he was in his father’s custody at the time I received the case as a result of the sexual abuse. But prior to that, custody had been awarded to his mother in the divorce. In family court the parents had each accused the other of DV, the judge chose to believe her in spite of the child’s testimony that it was his mother who was violent. The father was awarded monitored visitation to take place at his expense in a therapist’s office. He wasn’t permitted to even ask about the mother’s treatment of the children.

The girl who hated her father  hated him so badly that during one of my visits to his home while she was present, she curled up in his lap and went to sleep. Her mother was the violent one. She used to throw things at the father and destroy his property, once having intentionally burned his stamp collection worth several thousand dollars. All of which was verified by the girl before she went to sleep and away from the presence of either parent. Although she did, I didn’t need the girl to tell me this. Her actions spoke much louder than her words. When I interviewed her at her mother’s house, she refused to allow her mother to hold her and, during my interview when we were supposed to be alone, she kept checking to make sure her mother couldn’t hear what she was telling me.

Each and every one of the abusive parents in these cases had been abused as a child, whether it was physical, sexual, emotional, or neglect. This isn’t to say that all abuse victims grow up to become abusers. In fact, research suggests that it’s only a small percentage. But it is to say that a high percentage of abusers have been victims of abuse themselves.

This includes both domestic violence and child abuse. It also demonstrates that women can be just as abusive as men and points to flaws in our current system that neglect this fact, allowing and even perpetuating this “other abuse” that is said not to exist. We will not end (or even begin to address) the problems of domestic violence and child abuse until we learn to recognize that these are not gender specific problems and we address all perpetrators and treat all victims regardless of whether they are male or female.

About Walter Romans (TDOM)

I'm a chef. I'm a shrink. For better or for worse, I'm married with 4 grandkids (that's the better part). Over the last few years I have come to believe that feminism is a hate movement, not the benevolent force I used to understand it to be.

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  • Peter Cllifford

    @Theo (hope you don’t mind me calling that)

    velvet revolver (Guns ‘n Roses) have been heartbroken a Lot it’s the shit at the moment!

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com Denis

    I don’t know why but I really like this song.
    Dedicated to all the abusive assholes out there…whatever.

  • Falsely Accused Soldier

    @Everyone

    I think everyone needs to take a step back because alot of things are being said here.

    What people like Redpill, Mickey T and myself are trying to convey is action must be taken by the abused.

    Their comes a point when you come of age that if you continue to let the abuse occur then you end up being part of the problem.

    We see it in the feminist world all the time with women groping for victimhood. Of eventually using their victimization as justification for their outrageous behavior.

    Put a picture of Lorena Bobbit in your head right now. Or the women who drown their children in the bathtub/murder their husbands and claim mental instability or domestic violence.

    It’s a slippery slope and eventually leads to the epidemic we see today of lying about abuse to get what you want. I want to divorce my husband so I will claim abuse so he immediately is kicked out of the home. They don’t want the father of their children to get custody so they claim child abuse. I am mad at teacher A for giving me a bad grade or being hard on me so I will claim he tried to/did rape me. I am mad that that guy didn’t call me back or my boyfriend cheated on me so I accuse him of rape. I didn’t get that promotion and I am a woman so obviously their is sexual harrassment going on here.

    It feeds on itself and leads to terms like “patriarchy, the glass ceiling and rape culture.” It leads to laws and programs like VAWA, affirmative action and rape shield laws.

    When their is no evidence, it’s proven false or evidence is in favor of it not having occured then obviously its an institutional bias right? When that Jury of your peers comes back with a not guilty verdict then its because we were conditioned by society to do so right? When a study is done and the figures come back that their is an equal share of abuse by both genders then it is because the abused aren’t stepping forward right?

    They ask for more money to find the abuse that is obviously occuring and the beast keeps getting fed. It keeps getting bigger and bigger and starts feeding off of other parts of society.

    Women aren’t doing as well as boys in school so we change the curriculum to favor them and boys start doing worse.

    More women than men are in college pursuing their undergraduate degrees. Yet people will still claim that women are being discriminated against in the classroom.

    It just keeps feeding on other aspects of society and how it started was radical feminists taking over the DV movement in the 1970′s.

    Google Erin Pizzey* and hear her comments on how the radical bra burning feminists weren’t getting any attention in society. Then they hijacked the emerging DV movement and all the sudden started getting money and attention.

    *she opened the first DV shelter in Britain and eventually had to go into self exile because one of the first things she noted was half of the women were just as violent or more violent than the men they had left

    I said all that to say this, what we mean is change the situation. If you continue to feel sorry for yourself then your abuser wins. I am not talking about children, I am talking about when that abused child becomes an adult.

    It is about giving the person the correct tools to get out of the situation.

    If they don’t follow your advice their is nothing you can do. Except for what we in the men’s movement try to do on a daily basis. That is shedding light on the other half of the population, men. Of correcting the institutional bias that allowed the Bowspearer and the Peters of the world to be abused over and over again while everyone else watched on.

  • Theodore Labadie

    @Peter: Yes, you may call me Theo. Everyone who knows me calls me Theo, as opposed to say, Ted.

  • Theodore Labadie

    And I agree 100% with what FAS just wrote. It may sound cruel, but men and women need to take control of their pain otherwise it controls them. Feminism gives us a very poor template for how to deal with abuse. The number of women I know who allow some real or perceived trauma to consume their lives and the lives of everyone around them 10, 20, 30 years or more after the event has ended is legion.

  • bowspearer

    @FAS & Theo The problem is that you guys are taking too much of a step back. Yes the path to recovery has to ultimately be actively taken by the abused and yes the correct tools need to be supplied to them, which is the very issue here.

    The situation was this- someone who had been through a mountain of abuse was opening up for the first time in such a way that they were lashing out blindly due to what they’d endured in life.

    At that stage, the tools they needed were validation and caring- to see that maybe they had some sense of worth, that their feelings actually mattered and that they were capable of using the tools, before anyone ever even thought of throwing the tools their way.

    There is absolutely no point in throwing the tools at someone before they feel like they both deserve and are able to use them to heal. As this thread proves, not only is it not helpful, but it actually makes the situation worse.

    What you guys were doing was the equivalent of sticking a baby that was just starting to crawl on a treadmill and expecting them to start running. Another appropriate analogy would be building a house without bothering with the foundations.

    In short, yes you need to be able to provide the tools necessary and it ultimately has to be the abuser helping themselves. However at the same time, a person has to be able to crawl before they can walk. That’s something which some people here really need to remember.

    Like I said previously- the road to Hell is laid with good intentions.

  • Theodore Labadie

    @bowspearer:

    I wasn’t writing specifically about Peter. But since we’re on the topic again: once I was walking along a rocky coast in February. I wasn’t familiar with the tides and hadn’t planned my hike properly. The tide came up fast trapping me against a cliff. I had two choices: take a swim in icy cold water and probably drown trying to reach a distant beach, or overcome my fear of heights and learn how to scale a cliff PDQ. I climbed the cliff and lived. From what Peter has written here sounds to me like he may have only two choices. He can stay at home and drown or leave and live. But, it’s Peter’s life. He has to chart his own course.

  • Peter Cllifford

    @Denis and Bowspearer YUP GrimmNoir is an alpha male well he started attacking me an thumbing me down so is Jaxataxa and a few other (WHAT A BLOODY NIGHTMARE THIS HAS TURNED INTO) oh and what’s wrong with Velvet Revolver they are an awesome band

    another one of my favorites is::

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udc2AZnU0s8&feature=related

  • Peter Cllifford

    Lyrics to the song above::

    I fell through the ice
    She won’t be coming back again
    It never wins to lie
    She said you’ll never have no rights

    I’ve took it farther on the outside
    I’ve took it nearly to the brink
    And if you’ve seen me on the outside
    You would have barely seen me breathe

    Funny right here I find myself
    Inside a paper cup
    Without a warning or a reason it’s a treason
    With no answer

    You got no right
    To keep me waiting here
    You got no right
    To keep the pain in here
    That holds the crown

    And if I fall apart on the outside
    (You really don’t believe me)
    And if I take it to the brink
    And if I fall apart on the outside
    (You really don’t believe me)
    You would have barely seen me breathe

    And if I meet you out tonight
    Will you be loving me forever
    It’s always over after the night
    It’s always colder after the night
    I broke through the ice
    She won’t be coming back again
    It’s been a year and a night.

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com Denis

    @FAS, you should be informing the public, you are not educating anybody here with such basic MRA information. Nobody has to follow your advice and none of it helps people climb out of their hole.

  • bowspearer

    @Theo The thing is that Peter has proven to be a prime example of what the MRM can come to expect to encounter more and more often and if this thread is any indication, then the movements needs s fair bit of reflection on how to handle things better.

    You say that Peter may well have 2 choices (essentially to sink or swim while facing the world alone), but if that is our attitude then just what is the point of the MRM? Isn’t the whole idea behind the MRM to make that “swim” choice easier and to feel like it isn’t being taken alone but with a heap of support?

    The big problem is that you and others here seem to be trapped in an alpha way of thinking where the moment someone arguing for validation be factored into things, then the the person must be trying to push for the shelter movement’s perpetual victim-hood. Nothing could be further from the truth.

  • Falsely Accused Soldier

    @Denis

    My only advice was to get out of the situation. No one has to follow it but its a pretty basic first step.

    Alot of what I wrote isn’t basic MRA information at least to me it isn’t.

    I am getting ready to inform the public at the start of the next school year. I am going to start a mens issues group at my college campus. I am just getting my information rock solid because their is going to be a firestorm of “outrage.” I am also getting all the information regarding my campuses free speech laws.

  • Dusty

    @bowspearer:
    Most of us aren’t mental health professionals. (I allow for the possibility that some of the guys are.) Most of us aren’t equipped to deal with the problems that Peter faces- including you, unless you have direct, face-to-face contact with him. Peter is not going to get the help that he so desperately needs on an online men’s forum. He needs more than that.

    @Peter:
    I sincerely hope that you seek out professional, one-on-one help for the abuse you have received. I know what it’s like to feel helpless and backed into a corner with nowhere to go. Sometimes doing something different than what you’re currently doing- right or wrong- is better than doing nothing.

  • Theodore Labadie

    @ bowspearer:

    “You are a psychological abuser!”

    I don’t know man, shaming and finger-pointing seems like an alpha-oriented, group-think kind of tactic to me.

  • keith

    @ Bow

    Actually I gave great consideration to the comments I posted. They were not designed to admonish or attack anyone. I was attempting to inject elements of thoughtfulness that I felt would help broaden the scope and challenge us “all” to discuss rather than attack. I’m sorry it didn’t meet your standard, but it met mine.

  • bowspearer

    @Dusty “Most of us aren’t mental health professionals. (I allow for the possibility that some of the guys are.) Most of us aren’t equipped to deal with the problems that Peter faces- including you, unless you have direct, face-to-face contact with him. Peter is not going to get the help that he so desperately needs on an online men’s forum. He needs more than that.”

    So Dusty, are you saying that you need a degree to empathise with an abuse survivor or validate the hell they went through? No I don’t have mental health qualifications (which as Paul has proven can actually be a bad thing sometimes), but at the same time I can also say that I’ve found online forum support to be a handy support from time to time as well.

    Furthermore I completely agree that he needs some form of professional help. This is exactly why, as I’d already said in the thread if you remember back, that I am actually going to ask my Applied Kinesiology Chiropractor (not a conventional or recognised mental health professional, but in my personal experience and everyone else who’s used it that I’ve spoken to, infinitely more effective) to give me the details for someone practicing N.E.T. up around Newcastle.

    However that doesn’t change the ability of any of us to use a little bit of compassion or empathy.

    @Theo “I don’t know man, shaming and finger-pointing seems like an alpha-oriented, group-think kind of tactic to me.”

    Right so say, if I was African American and I had someone making overtly racist sleights and myself and another African American individual and I blasted them, calling them a racist scumbag, are you honestly saying that wouldn’t be justified? The reality is that Mickey T has been guilty of serial psychological abuse throughout this thread, and I called him out for it. If he has a problem with that then he seripously needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. If people can’t see that, then they seriously need to take a look at just what psychological abuse is.

    @Keith “Actually I gave great consideration to the comments I posted. They were not designed to admonish or attack anyone. I was attempting to inject elements of thoughtfulness that I felt would help broaden the scope and challenge us “all” to discuss rather than attack. I’m sorry it didn’t meet your standard, but it met mine.”

    And yet your own words (I can grab quotes if you like) limited the scope of what was deemed abusive behaviour and was very much accusatory towards Peter and myself for the “crime” of confronting what in many cases, was blatant and overt psychological abuse- very much a passive aggressive attack, regardless of your intentions. If that much of a mishandling of that attempt, despite your intentions, meets your standards, then you seriously need to rethink those standards.

  • Dusty

    @bowspearer,

    Mickey T and FAS offered what I considered to be legitimate commentary, but you “invalidate” that because there’s one way to look at the subject. I think these guys look at it the way I look at it: if Peter is a child in a man’s body (your idea), he needs to learn about being and behaving like an adult before going on an online forum for adult men.

    You said that before we react to anything Peter might say, think about how we would react to a little boy if he said that.

    I would tell him to go outside and play with the other children, because the adults are talking! He needs to learn how to be an adult if he’s going to interact with adults.

  • Peter Cllifford

    @Dusty

    Blow it out your ass I am learning here all the time but with a comment like that do you actually know what is going on in my life right now NO because your not me understood your parent didn’t collapse and hit their head and developed ***SCHIZO-EFFECTIVE-DISORDER/SPLIT PERSONALITY DISORDER*** did they kept you in the HOUSE for 11 years (only able to get out to run errands E.G. FOOD SHOPPING) while all your peers went out and partied had a good time from 16 years old to 27 in MOST ways I’m still that 16 year old and haven’t even LIVED yet I have been ROBBED of my LATE TEEN YEARS and MY EARLY ADULT YEARS! I haven’t had a propper life yet all MY AMBITIONS HAVE BEEN PUT ON HOLD my VIDEO GAME PRODUCING CARRER and EVERYTHING so WTF are you on about WILCO!!!!

  • Peter Cllifford

    Plus I was CONNED out of my virginity at six years old OKAY!!!

  • keith

    @ Bowspearer

    Maybe your right, I acquiesce to your hostility, maybe you should consider requesting my comments be removed. I will refrain from commenting further.

  • John A

    Great article TDOM, we need to remember that child abuse is done to children, by men, women and other children – not just men.

    Feminists claim that women are uniquely qualified to protect children – they are not.

    Some of the comments remind me of the following sketch,

  • bowspearer

    @Dusty No, what FAS and Mickey T did was try and look at the situation as THEY thought it should have been right down to what they deemed as “acceptable” and “understandible” and to hell with trying to see things through Peter’s eyes and trying to reach him by working within that framework of empathy. But then considering everything you have said in this last post, I have no doubt you did find it acceptable considering you clearly have your head up your ass on this one.

    I mean honestly, I could sum up your whole mentality of that last post as being “suck it up and man up”. Honestly, at times like this and on the topic of abuse, I’m honestly not sure who’s worse to deal with- radical feminists or traditionalist alphas as both are as bad as one another!

    @John a “Some of the comments remind me of the following sketch,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eDaSvRO9xA

    TO an extent, I think you’re right, but at the same time it doesn’t quite fit. The big problem has been this. A man who speaks out for probably the first time ever about the hell they went through, blindly lashing out, because of the ammount of pent up anger behind it all which was completely to be expected.

    Yet rather than actually being understanding and approaching things with empathy, the closet alphas in this thread were too busy telling said victim to “man up”, claiming that he was damn lucky he wasn’t getting off much worse, being told his story has no place here even though this is about abuse survivors and their stories and being attacked for being “childish” because this situation wasn’t as sterile as people would have liked, with copouts like “noone here has mental health qualifications so how the hell do you expect us to act”.

    Is it any wonder that the advice, which was completely ill timed, that they were too busy trying to ram down Peter’s throat to take not of their poor timing, wasn’t as well received as they might have liked. Seriously, in terms of the arrogance they showed towards Peter, regardless of the altruistic side of their intents; they might as well have just set a radical womens’ group loose on him.

  • Peter Cllifford

    A-FUCKING-MEN!

  • Mickey T

    @Theo

    Maybe I am a psycho abuser and I didn’t know it all these years. Now my life is starting to make sense. Don’t worry I’m thankful.

    I have to tell you what just happened. I was walking my dog and beyond the horizon I heard the sound of the pounding engines of helicopters. I stopped and just watched. Three helicopters came over the horizon, I continued to watch in amazement. I was frozen, thinking of how powerful the engines were, the engineering that had to go onto keeping them in the air, the courage and skill the pilots must have. I said to myself, we can’t let them destroy it, you guys.

    When are you going to write another article?

  • Poester99

    @Bowspearer, @Peter

    “Understanding” and endless “Empathy” without actually trying to get to a fucking solution (and talking too much, while going nowhere) is such a god-damn female and feminist point of view.
    I thought that one of the points of the MRA movement was to give credance and value to men’s perspectives. You’ve certainly won your battle as the most empathic and understanding and drove all the men’s perspectives out of this forum with the endless yapping.
    Okay, Peter, we “feel” your goddam pain (even though we can’t really understand, no one can, not even the Master Empathizer Bowspearer). Now for your own growth you need to heal. Others who know more than me and Bowspearer gave some advice and since you’re a free man, among men, you can take it or leave it.

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

    @Poester99, have you ever considered that “understanding” and “empathy” for victims is what has given feminists all their power?

    As far as labelling a “female” point of view…fuck off. That’s some damn good advice for you Poester99, from somebody who knows more than you and the other alpha-assholes on this thread. You can take it or leave it.

  • Theodore Labadie

    @ Mikey T:

    Soon. I have one in the pipe, but I’m thinking of asking Paul to pull it as the topic seems sort of stale to me now. I have one that’s almost finished that discusses why women cannot create artistic masterpieces and charts the decline of beauty and technical proficiency with the rise of Marxist-Feminism. I also have an older post that tries to rehabilitate “the male gaze” but I’m thinking that I could maximize readership by turning it into a Youtube video.

    In the meantime, there’s always Science Daily

  • Poester99

    @Denis,
    It’s ironic that now I have a man such as such yourself calling me an “alpha-asshole”. Certainly wasn’t that way in high-school when I came within a hair of self-immolation. You know, that “permanent solution to a temporary problem”.

    Does that mean that you find me “maddeningly” attractive?

  • Mickey T

    @ Peter

    I believe from what I see here, Dusty, FAS and I are at least as concerned with what’s in your best interest as some other people here who believe in a different approach, treatment etc.. Their approach and advice sounds nicer and easier to you than ours, but we believe that our way of looking at it will serve you, and those around you, better.

    They more than imply they care about you more than us, but just making such an assumtion without knowing very much about us, or not hearing very much from us, indicates pre mature reasoning.

    Because someone takes a great deal of time to criticize opposing or different opinions, while reinforcing their own, does not make them right. It means they have the time. Also don’t be fooled by those who claim that because of their experience, they know what’s best. I have 40 years experience in my business and I’m still not always right in what I do there.

    And usually the easiest way, is not the best way.

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

    @Poester99, In high school maybe you were just too feminine and needed to man up? Yeah, fuck off hypocrite.

    @Mickey, I think everybody has agreed and given Peter the advice that he needs to take the first step. Re-stating that over and over and diminishing his experiences doesn’t help. You don’t know shit, you are a piece of shit just like the rest of us men and you need to be taken down a notch.

  • Mickey T

    Ok, Denis

    You mean, you and Dr Laura there have given him a thousand opinions, and we gave him four. You both over did it with your 1960s acid mind games.

    Who the HELL are you to give orders on who does what when? You sound like that arrogant bastard of a partner of yours.

    Let me tell you something else, maybe you let those scumfems make you feel like a peice of shit, but not me. Don’t include me in your sewer. You “guys” didn’t have far to go, after they declared you shit, and you will proabably drag Peter down to your levels.

    I’ve seen too many “professionals” fuck up people’s minds. You and Dr Phil there remind me of those dregs of society.

    You guys are weak. That’s why you DO sound like a couple of cunts.

    Take me “down a notch”? Not you or anyone else.

    I often wish we were all face to face here.

  • Poester99

    @Denis,

    “@Poester99, In high school maybe you were just too feminine and needed to man up? Yeah, fuck off hypocrite.”

    There, now, who’s the “alpha-asshole”,
    In case you haven’t figured it out by now, many of the men in this thread (not just the obvious ones) are participating because they have had something very bad happen to them.

    Just telling everyone or anyone to “fuck-off”, may make you feel better but it won’t fix anything or help anyone.

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

    @Poester99, I have no problem if you want to refer to me as “feminine” for actually caring about abused men. Why the hell are you here?

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

    @Mickey, Why the hell are you posting here anyway? Are you so arrogant that you think anyone should respect you and take the advice of a stranger who clearly doesn’t care? You are a nobody and you don’t represent the real victims of abuse.

    Whatcha gonna do mickey, scare me with your bravado old man?

  • Dusty

    @Peter,

    I don’t pretend to know all the details of your life, as I haven’t read all of your posts (I’m talking the entire site here), so I apologize. I didn’t know you were schizo-effective, for example. What I’m concerned with is when you link to a sex toy site, or enter five successive posts about how to make a smiley face icon. The latter takes away from the discussion; the former makes us all look bad.

    Can we just start over? I will try to be positive to you in the future, but please show me the same respect.

  • Mickey T

    You are disconnected, Denis. That is why you will probably never work your way out of the distress you are in. You are deaf.

    You are calling me arrogant while you are telling me that I shouldn’t be here, a place where all men are welcome, not just the ones who agree with Denis, because I don’t go along with your kind of thinking?

    So, I don’t care because I don’t show it the way you do?

    Maybe I am a “nobody”. But I can look at myself in the mirror and see a man with balls who never let a woman screw him over.

    Do you know why women control guys like you? Because they are smarter than you.

    I don’t scare you, but you scare me.

    You are a fool, Denis.

    Good luck to you

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com Denis

    Women don’t control me Mickey, I’m not a Republican bitch like you.

    I’m here supporting the victims and I have learned far more from Peter than from an ignorant old fuck like you.

  • Mickey T

    Read my words. I didn’t say YOU because I knew you would probably come back with that. I said “guys like you” because I was referring to your mentality.

    What does “Republican bitch” have to do with anything?

    The discussion took a turn for the better through no credit to you or your assistant. I have my opinion as to why, but I won’t state it because I don’t care to stir all that up again.

    If I were sincere about helping the victims I might want to consider coming up with some kind of strategy to convince others to help as well. Not play this “I’m right and you’re wrong, so go fuck off” junk.

    “an ignorant old fuck like you”

    I have no rebuttal for that. I guess you win, Denis.

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com Denis

    @Peter, it’s okay you can feel free to post your thoughts on this thread. It’s all yours, except for the violence thing.

    I would like to share my opinions without being judgmental because I’m just a piece of shit like all the other men, or at least that’s what they think of us. It doesn’t matter what other people think of you, it only matters what you think of yourself and only you can change that. It sounds simple, but I recognize that everyone has had different struggles that have interrupted their lives and with different effects. You deserve better and you need to believe that. I suspect you looking for that validation in the mrm and I hope you find it.

    My impression is that you are emotional, honest and lacking in social conventions. Men don’t normally discuss sex toys, but it would have been a good chuckle for the “penis expert”. I thought it was funny. Whatever turns your crank.

    I think you are doing a great job in improving the readability of your posts and engaging in topics. Keep up the good work.

  • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com Denis

    @Mickey, yeah you’re a Republican bitch.

    You would sell out the real male victims of abuse to eliminate pre-trial custody for accused batterers. Many of them are either falsely accused, provoked or engaged in mutual violence, but that just puts them on the streets instead. It certainly doesn’t help any men who are trapped in abusive marriages.

    The fact that you don’t understand “equal protection” means that you are either stupider than I thought or an ignorant Republican bitch. My bet is on the latter. Get used to it.

  • bowspearer

    OK way to much in the way of misguided alpha “help” here, with those giving it too caught up in their own perspective to notice what the common sense approach is.

    @Poester99 ““Understanding” and endless “Empathy” without actually trying to get to a fucking solution (and talking too much, while going nowhere) is such a god-damn female and feminist point of view.”

    And again when did any of us advocating for empathy and compassion here say that that was the be all and end all of what was certainly given.

    Answer me this, if you were building a house, would you leave out the foundations too because “a house needs walls and a roof”?

    That’s the problem which everyone here who’s so busy telling him to “man up” is missing. The “solutions” you’re referring to are like the walls and roof of a house. Sure, you definitely need them to work, but without a solid foundation of empathy and compassion where someone will actually listen cause they do reel like you actually do care about them, those so called “solutions” fall down just as dramatically and quickly as a house without foundations.

    This is why the alpha approach and the radical feminist approach both are as bad as each other- regardless of whether you insist on only laying foundations or deliberately leavign out the foundations and building on everything else- either way you wind up with one hell of a failed project in terms of the house itself.

    The question is, would those people guilty of that here rather “do things right” or “be right”?

    @Peter I have to apologise- yesterday’s session with my kinesiologist was pretty full on and didn’t get a chance to ask him about someone up in Newcastle. I’ll do that when I see him again next week.

  • Mickey T

    Are you trying to make some point, Denis?

    Get control of yourself, man.

    People who you are supposed to help are watching.

    Finished with you!

  • Peter Clifford

    @Dusty,

    NO dusty I am NOT THE SCHIZO-EFFECTIVE

    My MOTHER IS THE SCHIZO-EFFECTIVE and I am LOOKING AFTER HER

    o.k. as I’ve always given people the benefit of the doubt I always do that’s just me

    (NOT RELATED TO ARTICLE)
    I was thinking about the sex toy becasue every time i have a knob-flogging sesh I end up with sores on my dick red sticky sores must be the lube I’m using being highly IRRITANT to peices of the skin (I’m circumcised B.T.W. :( ) or maybe the skin on my hands is acting like a shredding machine shredding some of the skin on my cock away IDK.

  • Mickey T

    From “Chid Maltreatment” 1994 program- Nat. Ctr. for Child Abuse- DHHS

    Total children murdered————-1,111

    Mothers———————————- 611

    Step/Boyfriends————————-438

    Biological Father————————–62

  • http://donothaveone Sisyphus

    I too worked for Child and Family services (obviously not in the same city) and was surprised at how often the mother was the perpetrator of abuse. In my childhood I’d only ever known men to be abusive.

    I can’t count the number of times I was shocked and awed (not in a good way!) by imbecile judges returning children to abusive homes.

    It doesn’t matter who is doing the abusing, the system needs to get the bloody kids out of there!

  • bowspearer

    @Sisyphus yet how can the system do that when the vast amount of research it draws on not only generates an unhealthy response of what are in many cases loving and nurturing father, but in some cases actually isolates children from them in abusive situations, while not only creating a potential vulnerability around mothers who are abusive, but in some cases, both invalidating the abuse of child victims and even forcing them to stay with abusive mothers because of the warped family court system.

    The recent case in Canada where a known abusive mother drowned both her kids out of spite in a custody case, while the father was denied custody, even though the mother had a known history of psychological illness; is a glaring and iconic example of what is a silent epidemic that occurs to varying degrees but in all cases leaves psychological scars.

    You say you want it to stop, but as your participation in the comments section of the article “I Want The Fucking Apology” demonstrates, the moment someone starts to deal with the inequalities men face, you are part of a society which automatically and blindly jumps to the conclusion that by acknowledging men’s issues you are diminishing women’s issues.

    When translating that to domestic violence and child abuse that mindset equates to, and in practice demonstrates itself to be, that by acknowledging male victims you must automatically be dismissing female victims, or conversely, by shedding light on female abusers, you must be dismissing the extistence of women.

    You might think that this train of logic is either ridiculous or extreme, yet this year in Australia alone, government departments for the advancement of women were found to have been guilty of falsifying data. Furthermore, a recent report into a study which suggests that 1 in 3 victims of domestic violence were male, was met with a response by the Women’s Council of Australia which sought to specifically turn the entire issue into a gender war blindly and baselessly concerned with the status quo rather than ending the scourge of abuse:

    http://www.oneinthree.com.au/storage/pdfs/1IN3_Womens_Council_Analysis.pdf

    If you truly wish to see an end to child abuse, then you need to recognise that your own attitudes and biases are part of a collective consciousness which perpetuates the very system which you claim to despise and direly wish to see changed.

    The question is, whether you are willing to engage in that much introspection, to truly become an enlightened force for good.

  • cyber saint

    It’s a shame we live in such a hypocritical society. There is a story behind every scar in a child and there are those….who protest for their freedom to look like a slut.

    [img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Child abu.png[/img]