Strike

MRA hunger strike

I’m middle aged and am a men’s rights activist. I have been active since early in 2009.

I was asked to write about a series of events that happened to me which was part of my activism. It is also part of the reason why I have been diagnosed with what is today called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or PTSD. In other wars now gone it was called “Shell Shock”. It’s the same thing but this war is protracted and is older than me.

I refer to the Barton street jail as the “Barton Bellagio” [1] to help diffuse my anger at a corrupt and feminist dictated “justice” system. What follows is my account of my fourteen day hunger strike in response to the “care” I was given by the Ontario justice system.

Please note, my incarceration was due to the allegation of a verbal threat. On August 24, 2010 I was at a neighbour’s when I got a call that the police were coming to take me into custody. It really was quite a spectacle to see; five or six police officers with tazers drawn and ready to use them on me. I left my friend’s residence and was only fifty feet from my home. There was a smoke behind my ear.

The police ran across the street (one so pumped he tripped and fell) and with tazers still drawn I gave no struggle. The officer who was to transport me to the Hamilton Central police station for processing let me have that smoke before we left. He was decent.

On the journey he asked me what all this was about and why there were so many officers instructed to respond. I said, “everything I am about to tell you is hypothetical,” thereby removing any ability of what I said to be used in court against me.

He was still left questioning why so many officers were called to take me into custody. I said to him, “It is because I have been in a war for equality with the ‘justice’ system for about a year now and I was kicking ass, taking badge numbers and filing complaints.”

There are definitely good officers on the force, and there are also some very nefarious individuals. This officer was a good one. The bad ones really shook my mental health.

At the Hamilton Central police station they processed me and I informed them right away that I was now on a hunger strike.

I told them “Don’t even bother bringing me a sandwich.” They did anyway. It made for a decent pillow and I left it behind when I was taken to court the next morning for my first appearance, a bail hearing, which I did not get.

Apparently, living here in the Ontario community all your life with your family in the same city makes you a flight risk, even if you have no criminal record. So no bail for me as I was deemed a ‘bounder.’ I was taken from the court room to a holding cell for transportation to the Barton Street Bellagio.

At the jail I was processed further. I was fingerprinted and my medical information was recorded. I was given a shot to test for tuberculosis and given papers explaining what is expected of me and what I was entitled to when incarcerated. They took my picture.

I told the intake person I wanted a few 8×10′s of that picture. “I prefer matte finish and can you please throw in a few wallet-sized, too?” Again I like to use humour to diffuse a situation. I was placed in segregation under medical watch because the hunger strike had begun for real.

I was sent to Segregation, and this is standard operating procedure when a person makes it known they are on a hunger strike. “Segregation” is a place inside incarceration. Criminals who would most likely be injured or killed by other inmates go there. Prisoners who are to be punished go to segregation.

My first few days in Segregation I was denied the general things that prisoners have. Things like two books, one of them for fun and one for spiritual reasons. I had no writing instruments.

After about a day I stopped my intake of liquids. Here’s why: I was moved to a range on the third floor but was still kept locked up in a form of segregation. My whole time there this was how it was and I knew this was wrong.

On the first night when the evening nurse stopped by my cell I accepted a couple of Advils from her. I took nothing else.

On the second night another nurse discovered I had had no water in 24 hours. She rushed me to the medical office and we struck a deal. I would start to ingest water that night but no food. She had me back in segregation but now under 24 hour CC-TV surveillance. That was on Friday.

One of the correction officers, a good guy, was a former marine. I recognized his ring and asked him if he was a Semper Fi guy. “Semper fi” is short for Semper Fidelis [2] it is the official motto of the United States Marine Corps.

He said that he was and “how did I know that?” I said I had friends in the military on both sides of the border. He then did something decent. He asked “Why are you on a hunger strike?” I told him some facts and statistics and said, “I am not in the military but as a citizen it is up to me to protect the rights of those who are serving.” He instantly got it because he was committed to fighting for his country’s constitution. I was doing the same but on a different front. That front was the seedy underbelly of proxy violence men go through every day in the courts.

I thought of the movie “Papillion” [3]. I thought of that little door opening and how food is passed through it. In my case the food just sat there in that little doorway in front of me. I had black tea and coffee. I refused the sugar.

I was moved to the cell right across from the guard’s office in the segregation unit. God bless that nurse she was doing her job and making sure I was being checked in on fairly regularly and I was finally given a pencil and some paper. I put that pencil to good use.

The first thing I did with that pencil was to write quotes from some of history’s greatest thinkers up on the walls that surrounded me. “They can because they think they can”, and “We must vigilantly stand on guard within our own borders for human rights “[4] now looked back at me as silent friends. I thanked John Diefenbaker and Virgil for those words.

That first weekend was not quite over, and the Ontario Ombudsman received a call from me. I told him about the hunger strike and the cruel and unusual punishment being inflicted on me. He learned from me in that call I was denied reading materials and “yard” time.

On Monday I had visitors. First a shrink.

“No I don’t hear voices. I have no imaginary friends. I am not thinking of killing anybody or myself.”

Then, he heard me say this, “I sure am angry about how men are being treated in the ‘justice’ system today.” Before he left I said, “I am using the only tool I have at my disposal.”

Next up was the warden, the captain and the lieutenant. I think a doctor was with them.

When they walked into my cell they looked around. They saw the fifteen or so quotations on the wall. They saw the chess board I had scribbled on my concrete bed with the paper chess pieces I made, and they saw the calendar I marked up on the wall. The look on their faces was not one of fear but more like an “oh shit.” The look on their faces is burned into my brain.

I could almost see the shared thought bubble over their heads, “This guy has no reference books so how did he get the quotes?” There was trepidation in that room and it was not from me.

The conversation consisted of me explaining and invoking my right not to be treated cruel and in an unusual manner while in medical segregation for a hunger strike. I was not there to be punished for some act committed in the jail. I was in there because a protected chartered right, the freedom of expression. I also invoked my right to my two books and my right to get some time in outside. I informed them that as I was representing myself I would need to have access to legal books.

I told them facts on how men are being heinously treated by the “justice” system today.

They promptly gave me a crappy-ass romance novel and a bible making my access to legal books a non-event. I never saw a book on legal matters because they made sure I never did.

I then settled into a routine, I’d wake up have my black coffee and read the bible before meditating for half hour or longer. After this I would read the crappy-ass book and then lunch would come. I would drink the back tea, do some more reading of my crappy-ass book and then grab an afternoon nap. A shower in the afternoon, then a dinner of black tea, more reading of the bible followed by the crappy-ass book. Sometimes ‘lights-out’ would happen and I wasn’t sleepy. Those nights I would drag my mattress to the door to grab the slice of light coming from the space near the hinges. That way I could read until I was tired.

There were quite a few days where I had to appear at court for bail hearings and they didn’t make life easier for me. I was put in the basement of the court house and I swear I could almost see my breath down there.

My matter would be called up I would appear before a justice of the peace or judge bail and it would be denied and so around and around we’d go, however, there were a couple of things of note regarding my court appearances for bail.

One time, standing before the justice of the peace, I started reciting about how the charter[5] guarantees me bail unless there is just cause. (section 11 e) The lawyers in that room, and the other players in the criminal court system knew about my hunger strike and then the justice of the peace said something absolutely incredible.

“I don’t give a damn what the charter says”

That was incredible in itself, but then something truly astounding happened. The lawyers (who are considered the officers of the court and are obligated to report when a judiciary acts improperly) stood up en masse and left the court room.

I responded by addressing the justice of the peace with the illegality of my treatment and he barked to the special constables.

“Remove this man from my court immediately.”

He had just fucked up and he knew it. He also knew my ability to prove it was zero because of the lawyers and their ‘land-rush’ to the exit. Accountability dies when ears are absent, and with its death stronger men need brothers. Perhaps it was at that moment I realised that a hunger strike is pain and pain makes you alone. Very alone.

Another appearance for bail was before a judge and once again I recited the charter and its guarantee of bail unless there is just cause. The crown launched their argument and the judge ruled:

“I am not going to deal with this”

I guess she knew the illegalities of what was happening and wanted no part of it.

I was moved around again and given a cell where the sink was plugged up and had what looked like fecal matter floating around in it. I called the ombudsman about this and was then taken back to segregation. Before I was moved I was threatened by an overly “nice” female guard. When she threatened me I went right over to the wall and wrote her words and signed it with the date. I did it right there in front of her so she could see I didn’t care about her threats.

Yeah, I get a little pissed about this shit, but hey, I’m male it don’t matter right? And I ain’t afraid to let those who pissed me off know it right to their face if I can. Actually no, I am afraid but I will do it anyway. This was my anger in action.

When I started getting yard-time I noticed something curious. A guard was appointed to sit with me and he listened very carefully as I spoke of my situation. I spoke about how men are being treated lower than animals and he sat there writing it all down.

At that time my knowledge about men’s issues was limited to the criminal side of things. The guard was not doing this for his own pleasure. He was appointed by the crown to gather evidence to strengthen their case in court. I played along and let him write away on statistics, recent court cases and news articles.

The thing is, guards are compellable witnesses for cases and their notes are admissible in court. This one was on a mission. He was their gleaming white knight, and was by his own volition (boot licking for a promotion?) a self-appointed funnel through which reams of data flowed in for the courts to dissect. (Because of this funnel, the courts now knew exactly my position on the DV industry and its corruption via lies and fear mongering.) No other guards took notes, just him, and he was quite fastidious.

One day I received an over-sized set of coveralls and a nefarious guard said “I heard you’ll be putting on weight today.” I told him I was 140 pounds yesterday and my bet is that by day’s end I would weigh 138 and a half. He had a half ass “fuck you” smile on his face and bet my weight would be 141.

So here I was, incarcerated for an utterance not meant and fighting back with a hunger strike and making bets about my weight with a flesh-robot.

On day six the captain spoke to me in his office and he was confused. “Why are you doing this?”

I explain how my eyes have been opened now for over a year about the quiet war on our sex. I explain many things to him right there and it pours out easily and without remitting. I tell him of the numerous complaint letters I have written to many government officials and of reading their replies of no accountability. I let him know of how the family courts rely on many players to reinforce their bond with each other with a quick nod off the radar. I explain how the police, judiciaries, lawyers, bailiffs and judges each grease their appointed wheel and the furnace that powers the big engine is stoked with men. Yes captain, there really is a war going on, and the primary victims are men and boys. He listens to me, he is sympathetic and he understands me clearly.

“My choice is easy and it was simple. Not one more inch will I retreat. I will not leave this mess for the next guy to clean up.”

The application for bail and its subsequent refusal every time was taxing me physically and emotionally while my resolve was gaining strength. Nobody could take that from me. That was mine for keeps.

Every time I was transported down for a bail hearing I would talk to the guys in the transport. I would tell them about the quiet war against men and boys and how vast and deeply rooted the corruption was. I even gave advice about how to spot shifty lawyers and their well-worn tactic of wrangling the law in such a twisted way that nobody of relevance could know what was going on.

One day I came back from court and my cell was being searched and I wondered why they would do this as I was under twenty four hour surveillance anyway.

Another time my lieutenant “buddy” smuggled in an ice cream bar.

“Come on, don’t you want the ice cream?”

I smiled and remembered a story from a few years back. I said “Hey Louie you remember a guard a few years back named Laslo X?” (Laslo had been caught smuggling drugs into the jail some years earlier)

He replied “Yah I remember him.”

I said “I heard he was asking about you, something about a business proposition.”

Stupid asshole, I thought to myself. Do anything for the system and screw anybody who stands up for what’s right. He was pissed and his voice was raised as he walked to the guard’s station.

“They are afraid he is going to turn this into a Bobby Sands[6] situation.”

Ah, now who are “they”? Were they his immediate superiors or the Ontario attorney general perhaps? I didn’t know who exactly, but I knew the “Justice-Hydra” had three heads to choose from – the police, the Crown or judiciary. By this stage I was very well rehearsed with how each of those heads talk. Those three heads talk much of justice, and they always deliver their version of it depending on their motivation at the time.

On the second weekend I was told I was being moved to another floor. They explained that five suicide attempts had been made recently and my cell was needed. They were being unusually decent with me and it set my bullshit-beeper ringing.

I reminded myself to never let my defences down with anyone whose compliance to the law ensures a paycheck.

I was promptly moved up to the third floor and this means the powers at hand cranked “the game” up a notch. You see, the third floor is for those with mental illnesses. I was now in the midst of the drug afflicted and the confused and the very angry. In fact, everyone there was mentally disturbed, and the Alpha males vied for the driver seat.

An Alpha male saw I was not eating anything and he didn’t like that I gave my meals to a different person each time. He wanted them for himself, and my standing my ground caused an incident.

My bullshit-beeper started ringing when out of the blue a Beta male engaged me in a way designed to distract. He was very much “out of character” and his step now fell with mine as we walked. A guard followed closely behind us and in our path was the Alpha, and he was approaching with something cupped in his hand. I did not take my eyes from him as I walked, and at the last moment the “distractor” at my side figured I wasn’t buying it and the two of them immediately left the scene as I entered the safety of my cell.

I have no doubt that I narrowly missed coming to grief with that incident, but who was there to listen to me? Sure, I knew that speaking to a guard would get me labelled as a rat and so that avenue was strictly out, but what about the medical staff? The same medical staff who had falsified their reports about me for two days?

Apparently, I had been looked after very carefully. I had been weighed and all the usual things were done. My blood pressure was apparently taken and blood tests were apparently performed. I have no memory of it, and my “memory” came off second best to some writing on a medical chart.

The next day was the last day of Summer and I was locked in my cell. I was grateful to see (through a tiny window) the annual football match between the Hamilton Tigercats and the Toronto Argonauts before my transfer the next day. This time I was going straight to high security on the fourth floor. They had taken it up another notch.

The fourth floor held those who were violent. I was now mingling with murderers and men who had committed robbery with guns and other weapons and when I arrived they gathered around me and asked questions. I watched one man crafting a makeshift shiv from two pencils bound with paper[7]. While he is doing this he calmly tells me that he heard from a guard that I am a rat.

I did the only thing I could do, and that was to tell them how my unpopular opinions have pissed off the wrong people. They begin to understand more when I explain that my hunger strike has caused those same people to dig deeper into their illegal bag of tricks in order to “win” this game. I could see by the look in their eyes that they were beginning to see me in a different light. They understood that I was not the usual type to be there. I sometimes wonder to this day if some of those that gathered about me still remember my “weird“ words about the war on men and boys. Did I ever nudge one onto a path where they now see the world differently? I’ll never know of course.

The next day was yet another bail hearing, and by this stage those that were simply annoyed by me were now quite angry. Their voices were much shriller this time, and their words heavier with new threats telling of dire consequences for me if I did not sign the bail agreement. I was not moved an inch by this new development and the Crown knew it.

They played one more card and it worked very well, they ripped into my mother while she was in the witness box. They had me in that court room watching an appointed lawyer tear right through her and they knew I would fold. They were right. I broke down and signed the bail agreement that day.

The bail agreement was that I had to live at my mother’s residence and I could not leave the property without her being in my presence.

I do not want it forgotten that the events of fourteen days told here were experienced by a person who did not have a criminal record and was representing themselves in court.

Some days I wish I never accepted the bail agreement and on other days I am thankful for signing it.

Sometimes I say I miss the Barton Bellagio. They were just getting my dry cleaning right. They got the right amount of starch in the collar and cuffs of my uniform, and there was a mint under my pillow with my covers turned down at night.

Sometimes laughter is the best medicine.

[1] http://www.bellagio.com/
[2] http://www.usmcpress.com/heritage/marine_corps_motto.htm
[3] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070511/
[4] http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/2/4/h4-4052-e.html
[5] http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/charter/page-1.html#l_I:s_7
[6] http://www.irishhungerstrike.com/bobbysands.html
[7] http://www.amazon.com/Golf-Pencils-Box-of-144/dp/B001ANQTKG

About Dan Perrins

Dan "Dannyboy" Perrins, up until a few years ago, was blissfully ignorant of what was going on. Then a series of events demanded he either grab his ankles and let a corrupt "just-us" system have its way with him or take action. He chose the latter, and he is now the Ontario News Correspondent for AVFM News.

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  • echofoxtrot

    Holy shit, sorry to hear about this experience.
    If you’ve ever looked into the personal sovereignty stuff going on now, I know that this one fellow who was locked up on a bullshit charge told the judge that he was the executor of the estate of (the man locked up), and demanded his freedom if the judge could not show a contract between (the man locked up) and the state (or province), county, and city. The judge sprang him within 5 minutes. This works because an executor always outranks the judge (who is an administrator).

  • Roger O Thornhill

    We’ve never met Dannyboy, but my heart is with you my friend!

  • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

    beyond words

  • Aimee McGee

    Practical thoughts here, I’m sure the feelings will come later for me.
    1) there are indisputable biochemical markers in the blood after 72 hours of fasting. Anyone who has a hunger strike who can afford to do so, get blood samples taken before breaking the fast…because it could be later used as evidence.
    2) if anyone ever hears of an MRA on a hunger strike, please contact me for advice on refeeding, as there is potentially fatal risks when food is reintroduced if the fast is longer than 5 days. Refeeding syndrome is not well understood by medics, but it is real and avoidable

    • http://mrathunderinthehammer.blogspot.com/ Dannyboy

      Aimee,
      You mean like glucose levels?
      That was one of the tests they were to do on me daily, as well as weight, bp, and heart rate.
      It was a little “weird” eating again after 14 days. I did make a call to the phone nurse and her advice was to eat slowly to start.
      If I remember correctly I started with some clear soup and some orange juice.
      I’m back up to my respectable 160 lbs now though.

      • Aimee McGee

        You would have had raised cholesterol, most of is in the form of triglycerides and high circulating levels of ketones. That would prove a prolonged fast. Also certain genetic markers would have been able to be tested for, but thats getting into fancy teritory.
        They were just conducting tests to show they undertook a “duty of care”. Your body would have been breaking down protein to produce glucose in a process called gluconeogenisis, to meet your obligate glucose needs, so your blood glucoses would have been low normal, but that shows nothing (hell, mine are probably low normal now after 6 hours not eating)
        Glad you asked a nurse before starting eating. You did right starting slow. Our rule of thumb is 1/4 calorie requirement first day, 1/2 second day and usual amount third day because of the risk of refeeding syndrome which is really nasty and what killed quite a few people who survived the concentration camps, when they were liberated. :(

  • napocapo69

    I’m pretty sure some feminist will assert that it’s all about patriarchy

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Remember, If something good happens, it is because of feminism. If it is bad, patriarchy.

      Fundamentalists view God and the devil in the same way.

      • Darryl X

        I’m not sure I’m a fundamentalist but I’ll expand upon your thought. I don’t think it is God and the devil to which you are referring.

        In Christianity, people are encouraged to attribute any success in life to God and any failure to flesh.

        The purpose of this construct is to discourage one from developing an over-inflated ego, from becoming narcissistic and elevating one’s self above other people and God.

        This is something people are vulnerable to. Most people including myself I know do this if they are not careful to check themselves occasionally.

        Some more frequently than others. Attribution of success to God and failure to flesh encourages personal responsibility.

        It is why feminism is a failed cult (and everything else for that matter). It puts feminists above others and God and discourages personal responsibility.

        It is this elevation above others and God which makes feminism a hate movement. It is why they are addicted to power and control. They think they are above all else.

        Including reality and the truth. You can ignore the truth but not its consequences.

      • lensman

        Amen to that bro. I still wouldn’t call feminism a religion for the plain reason that most religions still leave a bit of leeway, most of the time, when it comes to freedom of thought and expression.

        No, the correct way to view feminism is like a cult. Cults and feminism use the same intimidation methods, tend to infantilize their followers and warp their member’s sense of reality….

        …the only difference of course is that feminism actually has the state on its side. It’s far more likely to see Bradley tanks take down an MRA’s house than a SCUM convention.

  • dhanu

    At start I read it as the author’s personal experience. At about one-fourth of the whole article, I could no longer believe something THAT horrible could happen for real (for example, the judge’s announcement of having nothing to do with the charter), and thought that it’s fictional and was a bit relieved. However, no such thing (about it being fictional) was mentioned in the end. So this is a real story? If so, I’m convinced that the system is beyond any possibility of return and a total collapse and reconstruction is the only way to establish the justice and order, no matter how hard we try. Still finding it unbelievable.

    • Bev

      It’s everywhere. The same type of story plays out in every western nation and now includes India. It is useful to attend your local court on the days when DV cases are heard and watch a procession of bewildered men being pole axed by by a justice??? system that does not even pretend uphold the rule of law.

    • http://mrathunderinthehammer.blogspot.com/ Dannyboy

      dhanu,
      It is very real. I went in about 160 lbs and came out at exactly 129 lbs.
      I am only fairly sure about my entrance weight as I didn’t weigh myself that morning before I went to jail.
      I do know however that I have been about 160 lbs for about 25 years now.
      If you would like more proof of this ordeal I should be able to I get copies of the Ontario Ombudsman’s records on this.

      • dhanu

        Oh no, no doubt it’s real word-for-word. I meant, it’s just so ridiculous that no one can normally think of this level of inhumanity, and all that for no justifiable reason at all. A blatant disregard of not only the constitutional rights but also of humanity of a person merely for his being a man! Now how is that believable? That was my point. That this actually happened then proves what? That the system is hopeless.

    • Darryl X

      “(for example, the judge’s announcement of having nothing to do with the charter)”

      I believe this. I’ve experienced similar myself. We are in frightening times. It’s what happens when people become consumed with their own power and addiction to it.

  • Skeptic

    Dannyboy,
    Wow! I had no idea brother.
    I can totally see why you’d be such a fired up Men’s Rights Activist reading this.
    I have no doubt what you say is word for word true, and reading many other accounts of out and out abuse of decent men in USA I feel dismayed and pissed off.
    Not just because such things are happening undeservedly to many of my brothers in the USA, but because at the same time the USA government goes around the world acting like moral policeman.
    What is frightening and sadly ironic is that at the same time as parading around the globe like international moral high-grounders, with many of the laws and conventions they enact and enforce THEY are a form of terrorism themselves in their own backyard, perpetrated by themselves on their own USA men.
    I’m delighted you’ve courageously posted this piece which should wake many others up from their current cultural slumber.
    I also commend you for the restraint you’ve shown in not resorting to ad hominems whilst with skilfully chosen words still painting such a powerful viscerally charged description.

    Thank you.

    • Ex Machina

      I also have no doubt this is a faithful retelling of the events that actually transpired.

      While he is doing this he calmly tells me that he heard from a guard that I am a rat.

      Damn,brother. You must’ve really squeezed somebody’s balls. Sounds to me like they moved you up there to take one in the ribs and put out word to make sure it happened. Not being a criminal yourself,I’m amazed you didn’t catch a shiv. You didn’t have any of the usual protections in place.

      All I can say is, you did good. You didn’t snitch,and you kept your head up. Don’t worry about the bail agreement thing, you did what you wanted to do,or they wouldn’t have acted the way they did.

      I hope you did get through to some of those guys in there. Next time they’re out, maybe they can get at the right people.

  • Tawil

    That’s a moving story Dannyboy…. reading about the various protagonists took me from disgust to anger to admiration and more.

    Every time one man fights the system, the system learns something.

    After the way you were treated all I can say is thank God you retained a sense of humor, and not descend into oblivion.

    • http://mrathunderinthehammer.blogspot.com/ Dannyboy

      Tawil,
      I am very thankful for my ability to laugh at things, I believe if I wasn’t able to laugh at my life, I would have descended into oblivion many years ago.
      Thanks,
      Dan

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

    Great story here Dannyboy,

    As you know mate I know this story very well. Reading it here again makes me know all the more that we are in stout company to say the least.

    The moray-heels you “commingled” with came off second best. They cannot remove from your Rolodex of history the fact that you got them scraping to the very bottom of the barrel to assemble their last card, and what a sad thing that was.

    Your dedication to memorise the law and their accompanying numerical tags is quite remarkable in itself, but to espouse it fluently to a (pre)judge is the clay of inspiration.

    What a joy it must be for you to have in your mind’s eye the emptying of the room as though a bomb threat had been announced over the intercom ? The look on the judge in front of you must be a Kodak moment you’ve stashed away for a glum day ?

    All in all, from your first smoke to the signing of the stinking bail agreement, “My choice is easy and it was simple. Not one more inch will I retreat. I will not leave this mess for the next guy to clean up.”

    He’s a bloody magnificent boy our Danny. Just magnificent.

    Respect dude ~

    • http://mrathunderinthehammer.blogspot.com/ Dannyboy

      Many thanks Dr. F.
      You did one hell of job on the edit.
      After 2+ years of relating these events verbally it is something else to see it in print.
      I have to admit I do smile at the memory of the lawyers scurrying from the court room that day. For a group of individuals, who most times are very slow and methodical about their daily business they sure were moving like the place was on fire.
      Thanks again for your work on this and your compliments I really do appreciate them.

  • Dazza

    Dannyboy thank you for sharing your story.

    I am proud of the fact that you did not back down from the fight against injustice, no matter how many times they tried to break you down.

    You are a true MRA.

  • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

    What the hell exactly were you charged with, Danny?

    • Alek

      It says at the beginning

      Please note, my incarceration was due to the allegation of a verbal threat.

      This is why feminists fight to have vague laws where something is deemed something based on a woman’s feeling.

      You don’t have to actually say any specific words for it to be considered “verbal threat” –> the woman merely needs to “feel threatened”…

      Same with sexual harassment laws which are now strongly becoming “anything any woman anywhere dislikes on a subjective basis, and if she dislikes what you said, didn’t say, might have wanted to say, or the way you DIDN’t say something, your silence, your tone or the angle of your body—> well you are harassing her… because she felt that way”.

      • Greyfeld

        But you notice, he also never actually said what the allegation or supposed threat was, either.

        I generally try not to be swayed by stories that conveniently leave out part of the bigger picture. I’m well aware how inmates are treated, having spent some short time in prison myself, and this was a very moving tale. But so was “A Child Called ‘It’,” which ended up being entirely fiction.

        Where I live, allegations of threats aren’t met with a half dozen cop cars and tasers. Even in cases of active DV, you only ever get a single car swinging by to check on the validity of the phone call. To have that big of a response, something pretty fucking serious had to have gone down.

        I’m not trying to minimize Dannyboy’s experiences, or justify the actions of those in the system who obviously violated his rights. But I am saying that I’m not “taking sides” based on a tale that obviously left out a huge gaping hole in its story.

        • http://mrathunderinthehammer.blogspot.com/ Dannyboy

          Greyfeld,
          The charge is mentioned fourth paragraph in. (uttering a threat) It was not 6 cop cars but 3 cop cars they try and travel in 2’s up here.
          You’re right there is more background to the story, lots more.
          However article constraints kind of inhibit telling the whole story.
          Suffice it to say Hamilton police services and I, had been well acquainted by this time. Despite the fact that I had no record.
          I had already been in the justice system’s face for about a year and a half. Police complaints filed, judiciary complaints filed, etc. So they knew me very well.

          I will let you know that this was not the only incident or series of events where the justice system made some damn interesting threats against my physical well being.
          I can also provide proof of a set-up by the police against me.
          A motion made in court by the crown attorney based on a police generated document. A document no police officer was willing to sign their name to or produce a corresponding report involving the incident.

          That didn’t stop them from trying though.
          You have no idea how very right you are about there being a much bigger picture, this is but a small corner of the fight I launched. Only 14 days worth, the whole story goes back to January of 2009.

          • Greyfeld

            [quote]It was not 6 cop cars but 3 cop cars they try and travel in 2′s up here.[/quote]

            I apologize, my mistake. I misread, my first time through. However, my statement stands. Even 3 cop cars for a simple “threat allegation” is pretty much unheard of in any first-world country.

            That all said, “uttering a threat” is vague at best, and a manipulative misnomer at worst. It can be anything from the veiled threat present in a simple phrase like, “Don’t fuck with me,” to an overtly maniacal threat of bodily harm, with a whacko waving a gun around in the air, after shooting their neighbor’s dog. Where your situation stands between those two goalposts is up to you to elucidate, as the person telling the story.

            I know that my posts are going to get downvoted because I’m not chanting “VAGINAS ARE EVIL, DOWN WITH THE OPPRESSORS!!” with the rest of the herd, but I feel that it’s more important to be detached, logical, and objective when discussing things. It’s how we determine fault without accusing the wrong person. It’s how we fix problems without accidentally pushing the system too far in the opposite direction. It’s how rational people should tackle problems, rather than just falling into the same old groupthink, and denouncing anybody who disagrees.

            So, is your story sad? Of course. Is it moving? Absolutely. Is it objective proof that the system has problems that need to be fixed? Not in the slightest, in my mind. Because you left out too many parts of the story to make an informed and unbiased opinion.

            And as somebody who hasn’t written an article on here, I’m not sure what you mean by “article constraints.” But I’ve seen plenty of articles written on here with personal issues divulged, so I fail to see where the problem lay.

            Edit: Sorry for the bad HTML. Evidentally, I haven’t a damned clue how to do proper quotes on this thing.

          • Bombay

            @Greyfeld

            ” Is it objective proof that the system has problems that need to be fixed? Not in the slightest, in my mind. Because you left out too many parts of the story to make an informed and unbiased opinion.”

            I do not think anyone here would claim that any story is objective proof. Otherwise we all would support all rape allegations.

            For those of us who have had similar experiences, we do not even need to hear this story to know that it is true.

            If you want proof, spend a week at your local court and serve to witness for people like Dannyboy. And while you are at it – share a personal story with us and I bet people here will show you some courtesy in having told us something about your self rather than suggest your story does not prove anything.

          • Greyfeld

            @Bombay

            It’s not about proving that what he wrote actually happened. It’s about putting it into perspective, to show that his story actually merits compassion.

            In a more extreme example, what if this “allegation of a threat” was that the poster killed his neighbor’s dog and made veiled implications that something worse would happen next time? In such a situation, refusing bail would be fair. The only other rights that were being violated was the right to a couple of crappy books, which seems like small potatoes in light of the rest of the story.

            Not only is the story missing details outlining the bigger picture, but there are a lot of assumptions being made by the writer, being posed as facts. Thoughts that some people supposedly had, because he could “see it in their eyes,” assuming that being moved to different jail cells was an “attempt to break him.” Most of it is a load of assumptions based on his belief that there’s a little circle of corruption at work, holding him in prison in an attempt to keep him from uncovering a web-work of intentional deception and government-level conspiracy that’s been erected just to keep men down.

            Frankly, the entire thing reads like a conspiracy-theorist’s worst nightmare, with national corruption, and secrets hiding in every shadow.

            The MRM stands for equality for both sexes, with a specific focus on males (because that’s who the group is advocating for, which is perfectly normal) who happen to fall through the cracks in what is gradually becoming a gyno-centric society. I’m sure there are people who are corrupted by their beliefs, and I’m sure that Danny’s story is lodged, at least partly, in fact and reality, but I have to believe that the majority of misandry in our society is unintentional and stems from people who don’t actually realize that there’s something wrong.

            At the end of the day, without more context to set the stage for the story, it’s just a story. A story written for the intent of shock and awe. An attempt to rally the troops to the cause. And as glamorous as that is, those of us who can’t divorce ourselves from objectivity and rationality will always wonder, “But what aren’t you telling me?”

            This isn’t a personal attack on Danny, nor a dismisal of any hardships he has had to go through. It’s simply a plea to hear the story from the beginning, rather than feeling like I stumbled into a half-finished conversation.

          • Bombay

            @Greyfeld

            Thank you for the explanation. It does not seem like you have taken the red pill. Please take several field trips to the court house.

            Dannyboy’s experience is not unique but people just do not want to accept that.

            http://www.9news.com/video/1831336159001/1/9Wants-To-Know-Man-alleges-genitals-burned-in-jail

            Do you notice any similarities? I am happy that Dannyboy was not attacked like this guy was.

            Jail abuse is difficult to prove. In a recent case in Denver after allegations – there were several missing minutes of video. No conspiracy there….. Just abused people who are discounted.

          • http://mrathunderinthehammer.blogspot.com/ Dannyboy

            Greyfeld,
            Article constraints “Pieces are generally expected to be between 750 and 1,500 words, but variations on that are not out of the question.” (under “writers” tab)
            This piece is way over 1500 words to go into the back story would most likely run around 20k worth of words, if not even more.
            Uttering a threat is covered under 264.1 of the CCC, it is a strict liability charge, no men’s rea is required only actus rea. It can land you up to 5 years in jail.
            My alleged ‘threat’ was not some maniacal gun waving crazy’ not even close to that. I will tell you it involved a call by me to a crisis line. I am not willing to get into the exact phrase I am alleged to have uttered.
            However we can move your goal posts to somewhere smack dab in the middle of the two examples you give.

            An important point you seem to be glossing over is the fact that I had no criminal record. A police search on my name would have resulted in and did result in 0 hits, nothing, nada, zero, zip, zilch.
            What they did know about me down at the station was how I was getting in their faces about the rampant misandry in the courts / justice system. One of the police reports is shown on my yt channel. (assault by an ex-fiance, she called the police herself, the response was to take her to an abused woman’s shelter, despite the fact that there was no verbal threat made by me or physical interaction engaged in by me. This happens about 7 months before to the day.)
            If I was to break out every single police report and document and put it up on the net you would have about a 1000 documents to look at with word counts ranging from 50 words into the 1000’s.
            In regards to Most of it is a load of assumptions based on his belief that there’s a little circle of corruption at work, holding him in prison in an attempt to keep him from uncovering a web-work of intentional deception and government-level conspiracy that’s been erected just to keep men down.
            Are you fucking kidding me?
            The lieutenant smuggling in ice cream to get me to break and when I didn’t him uttering the phrase “they’re afraid he is going to turn this into a Bobby Sands situation” Means what to you?
            Does it mean that one of his underlings said it? Some visitor? Or is my assumption pretty much spot on when I said it was from someone above his rank?
            Come to court with me sometime and bear witness to the justice system confiscating my whole briefcase, legal documents / arguments and then putting me up before the judiciary.
            Want to see the court transcripts on that one? Three times I ask to see my documents three time there was a non-reply from the judiciary. I do remember the smile on all their faces though when that happened. Then again the judiciary the crown attorney and the cops who were holding my briefcase hostage while I was trying to make a legal argument would not make the legal definition of a conspiracy now would it?
            Just for simplicity sake that would make it about 10 people all involved in illegal activities for that one court appearance.
            The tally for that one instance:
            1 member of the judiciary,
            1 court clerk
            1 court reporter
            2 members of the crown attorney’s office.
            5 police officers. (2 at the metal detectors, 2 holding my briefcase hostage, 1 provincial police officer who helps the crown)
            All engaging in S 139 of the CCC obstructing justice.
            But hey that’s not a conspiracy at all, despite the fact that it fits the law books definition of a conspiracy perfectly.
            I’m not giving you a down vote Grey but damn really think about what is printed in AVfM articles.
            If you still think there isn’t something going on behind the scenes of the injustice system then I’m going to have to say you just ain’t reading them at all.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            Greyfeld,

            You are derailing this thread and are placing academic precision of logic, reason and clarity of citation above something else. Anything else come to think of it, and your own interpretations, logic and reasoning are flawed and here’s how:

            1/
            You mention that the only thing denied the author was a couple of books when in fact he was denied the right to be placed in a non harmful environment. He says in his write here that he was twice placed in sections of the gaol where violent men were placed. One for violent criminals and one time where drug addicts and the mentally challenged reside.

            You missed that bit.

            2/
            You are paying much attention on the initial “crime” of Danny’s. The one that started the whole ugly events. It has been pointed out to you that he uttered a threat and I’ll go one further and point out that the content of the utterance no matter how disgusting/evil/distasteful does not merit several police officers to respond to. You’ve already agreed with this bit, but seem to fail to see that there must be more going on behind the scenes that resulted in such a response. I mean seriously, there must have been something going on or Danny is a fibber.

            Any story can be questioned by anyone anytime anywhere. With every story from a first person point of view there must be an element of trust, or belief, from the reader. You know this and still you barge on and here’s another thought for you – the article is about Dannyboy, not about you and your interesting thoughts.

            My point here is that the content of the utterance is totally irrelevant when stacked against the effect from that utterance. The effect is the article – not the exact phrasing of the utterance. Get it ?

            Greyfeld, the man has opened his heart to something that happened to him that has caused him tremendous grief and changed him for the better. He does not get any money for this service you get. He has contributed to this site by making it just that much more enriching and interesting. Then you ponce in here waving a teacher’s laser and highlighting areas in his write where we should stop and wonder about the integrity of the information here. You invite others to pause for a moment and really think about what is true and what is not. You are bringing discord where none is required.

            I am wanting to know why Greyfeld.

            You’ve suggested (to me anyway) your motivation is for the purpose of deconstruction and analysis of argument and so on. I find it attention to minutia and I assert that you are “getting off” on being the shit stirrer who says what no one might think, or gosh, dare to say.

            You are being tremendously obnoxious and you insult. I am calling you out on it.

            I will not reply to anything you say as I am done with you here. So yes, go for it. (sigh)

        • lensman

          @Greyfield

          I upvoted you because I have a policy of giving courage to people who come here and post different opinions.

          I was about to write a lengthy response about what is wrong with your post, but Dr F. beat me to it and made most of the points I wanted to make… Guess I am going to have to delete those txt files. Thanks for Fluffing My Shit Up doc!

          Instead, I am going to pick on something else:

          I know that my posts are going to get downvoted because I’m not chanting “VAGINAS ARE EVIL, DOWN WITH THE OPPRESSORS!!” with the rest of the herd.

          Uh… where exactly on this did you see anybody, blame women for this? One of the judges was identified as a “she”, but Dannyboy didn’t put her in a negative light… at least not much more negative than the rest of the male judges.

          The whole point of all this, is that it’s the system that is evil. Sure, it took a woman to start this whole clusterfuck, but in a just and decent society this wouldn’t have gotten this ugly. It was self-righteous white knights that arrested Dannyboy. It was power-addicted (to the point of narcissism) Judges, mostly male, that threw him in jail. It was complicit jailers and police officers, again mostly male, that made his situation worse. It was complicit lawyers and prosecutors, once again male, which ran for the door when the judge broke the law.

          And this system is made up and maintained by power hungry people, (once more with feeling) mostly male, who seek to infantilize the one half of the population in order to control the other.

          It has nothing to do with sex, and everything to do with human rights and their violation by people (men and women) who view men and boys as chickens to be plucked at best or lambs to be slaughtered at worst.

          There are plenty of women here and elsewhere who wake up to the truth (often violently), by seeing a loved one get destroyed, or by actually looking at things logically -and then getting labelled as a “gender traitor” and attacked by their erstwhile sisters. And those women offer great insights and contribute a lot to the Men’s Rights Movement.

          Sure there are some people here who view women, even the ones here, with suspicion, but tend not to dominate discussions, and are kept in line. Contrary to what David Futrelle tells you, there is very little woman bashing, if any, here in AVfM, much less in fact than what you get to see in other “male oriented” forums. If anything, it’s the white knights that deservedly get most of the bashing.

          This has nothing to do with sex, and everything to do with justice.

          • Turbo

            Agreed 100% Lensman.

            @ Greyfield

            You may make all your points, requests for detail and clarity, as you have done. You may disagree, entirely, have a difference of opinion etc. that is fine as well. It is a robust discourse here.

            But if you really believe this statement that you made

            “I know that my posts are going to get downvoted because I’m not chanting “VAGINAS ARE EVIL, DOWN WITH THE OPPRESSORS!!” with the rest of the herd”

            then you seriously do not belong here.

            That statement is just offensive and insulting to the people here. Of course, offensive is not illegal, so that is your right.

            But this is no fucking herd here. If you want more information then just ask, instead of trying to make yourself out as the great fucking moral arbiter of all that is right and logical.

            @ Dannyboy

            Enjoyed the read mate, glad you got thru it OK, keep up the good work.

          • Darryl X

            “The whole point of all this, is that it’s the system that is evil.”

            Please stop using the malevalent and all-powerful “system” to excuse the criminal and evil and irresponsible behavior of women. Especially in the context of our brutal feminist regime.

            It really is women. They’re evil. Statistically speaking, which is all that matters, the chance of a man escaping from any kind of a relationship with one (romantic, sexual, professional, etc…) unscathed in some sort of serious and practical way is pretty small.

            The system exists. It always has and always will. Women choose to wield it against innocent and responsible men. Please stop using “the system” to excuse the criminal and evil and irresponsible behavior of women.

            Women are responsible for their behavior despite the system. The system does not preclude women from their freedom of choice in almost all instances. They always have choices. Certainly more than men.

            That women have options and so consistently choose to do things for their own personal gain at the expense of others is what makes them evil. Usually they have the choice to do things for their own personal gain and not at the expense of others.

            But they still make the choice to do things for their own personal gain only if it is at the expense of others specifically. Dismissing other options which may still get them what the want because it doesn’t hurt others enough.

        • Aimee McGee

          @Greyfield, I’ve been around this site for a while now. As a woman I’ve found this place welcoming and supportive. It also has a huge range of articles. Not all I agree with, but many I do.
          Danny’s story provoked in me an unusual response…I try to keep my ‘work brain’ disconnected when I read here, but my first response was from my training, which demands a cool, rational, crisis management perspective. It was almost 4 hours later when I got the feelings I knew I would experience through…anger and sadness.
          I would say to you – have you been a part even peripherally of a high conflict relationship breakdown? My pacifist SO has been painted as a violent abusive oppressive bastard by his ex. She has alienated his eldest daughter and a huge chunk of his faith community. Twice she has committed criminal acts that had she been male would have given her 12 hours in the clink and a visit to a judge. She also has multiple contempt events on a family court ruling. Where Danny went, my SO could go. It could happen so easily.

        • Darryl X

          @ Greyfeld –

          “Where I live, allegations of threats aren’t met with a half dozen cop cars and tasers. Even in cases of active DV, you only ever get a single car swinging by to check on the validity of the phone call. To have that big of a response, something pretty fucking serious had to have gone down.”

          For some perspective, the experience of Dannyboy is very similar to my personal experience (in the US no less) and the experience of many other men. (Not with prison but with the arrest about which you express disbelief.)

          My wife left me for a younger man with more money and a bigger dick, snatched our son and took a restraining order against me. There had never been any evidence of any violence on my part. There was however evidence of violence on her part and a police record to prove it. (She had stabbed me in the back with a pair of butcher knives without any provocation and after considerable premeditation.)

          (I always laugh at the advertisement at the top of this page for Register Her because my wife didn’t stab me in the back with lies. Instead she stabbed me in the back with a pair of butcher knives. Gotta see the humor in everything nowadays. But I digress – sorry.) Still, she got a restraining order against me.

          One year after she left me (the restraining order still active), she showed up with our children and her boyfriend fifty feet from my residence. Why doesn’t matter and had nothing to do with me. I was surprised when I walked out my front door and there they were. (They were part of a crowd gathering to watch a fire works display.)

          It was inconceivable that a year after leaving me and lots of communication between our attorneys that she did not know I lived there. Or at least that I lived somewhere in the immediate vicinity. She had moved to and lived in another town thirty miles away but I had not left our original residence.

          So she had traveled thirty miles from her current residence to the town in which I still lived and gone to a place she knew to be fifty feet from where I still lived or at least from where we used to live together. As soon as she saw me, she whipped out her cell phone. I waved at my son who I had not seen in a year (what else was I supposed to do – I was honestly in shock).

          Within two or three minutes, two sherriff’s deputies, two municipal law enforcement officers and two state troopers all in three cars descended upon the scene, drew their guns (six guns for little ole me unarmed and has never even ever discharged a weapon let along owned one) and arrested me (in front of our son).

          And it wasn’t just an arrest. The arrest involved pulling my hair out of my scalp and slamming me up against one of the cars and twisting my arm around till it almost came off. Right in front of my residence and more than a few witnesses.

          After a hearing and many continuances, a DA’s obsessive desire to prosecute me (a female DA) without relent and cost to me of more than $6,000, charges from criminal contempt of court in the first degree (I think but it might have been second) for failing to comply with a restraining order were finally dropped after eight months.

          • Sasha

            @Darryl X

            My heart goes out to you. You’ve had a bloody awful time clearly. I’ve also survived chronic abuse, from a wife I’m in the process of divorcing. I’m not going to swap stories though, there’s no point: you’ve really got me beat with the butcher knives in the back bit, that’s just fucking psycho.

            But look, you can’t say ‘all women are evil’, it’s clearly not true and it’s ultimately a recipe for bitterness that’ll just eat you up. Hate will just destroy your own heart in the end. What is it that they say? ‘The best revenge is living well”. Well, that’s what you need to do now. Eat well, exercise, don’t drink, develop healthy interests, get yourself out and about and live expansively and generously.

            We know the way society is allows some women to get away with everything including murder. Constantly elated by the power they have to treat men as ATMs they can expel at whim, these women go through life with an unspoken assumption of dominance, privilege and entitlement. They’re experts at manipulation; playing the victim when it suits them then shaming, blaming, attacking – essentially they’re bullies, and they’ve a lifetime’s training. They’ve even established what Fidelbogen calls a ‘cultural worldview’ – feminism – to represent their interests.

            BUT, not all women are taken in by it. There are plenty who aren’t. You may even find one who’ll become a lifelong companion, who knows?

            Having said that, perhaps keep the knife drawer padlocked for a while.

            No point taking risks eh?

          • Darryl X

            @ Sasha –

            Thanks. For point of clarification and dipolomacy, I have attempted to retreat from provocative statements on this site (no matter how truthful or accurate).

            I did not write “all women are evil”. I reviewed what I wrote and don’t think I wrote that and if I did or if it was interpreted that way, I apologize. Obviously, all women are not evil. It just seems that way.

            Because I have adopted an interpretation of facts and data and their objective analysis to conclude that “almost all women are evil” so that I don’t end up wrongly condemning those women who obviously are not evil. “Almost all” is not the same as “all”.

            Although all women are not evil, I personally have never met any who are not. But I believe there are some who are not evil. Even though I have not met them. It’s impossible for all of them to be evil. (I think.) I just haven’t met any. I hope I do some day. A woman who is not evil must be a remarkable thing to behold.

            However, I do believe that almost all are evil. And here’s my defense of that statement. That not all are but almost all are. Just concerning divorce, custody and child support, one-third of all adult women in the US during the past forty- four years have deliberately and maliciously defrauded both the fathers of their children and their children.

            That’s one-third of all adult women in the US during the past forty-four years. And that’s just concerning one mechanism – the divorce industry. I’m not including all the women who have misused or abused laws concerning sexual discrimination and harrassment, made false rape allegations, committed paternity fraud, committed adultery (which is really financial fraud against their husbands so it’s a real crime), abused their children routinely, etc… That one-third of all adult women just concerns divorce, custody and child support. The number only grows rapidly as you consider all the other mechanisms.

            So I hope you understand that I do not believe that “all “women are evil but why an objective analysis of facts and data show that “almost all” women are evil. And if not “almost all” then how about “most” as I’m sure it’s much more than half if as many as one-third just concerning divorce, custody and child support are.

            It is easy to dismiss my conclusion about women because I have had a bad experience and calling me bitter. I am not bitter. (OK, maybe a little.) I prefer harsh truths to polite lies. However, living well after all your past, present and future income has been taken away is not possible. And in the US, men who owe child support are not eligible for any public assistance. Or almost none. That means no health care either. After the courts steal everything from you, they leave you to die on the street and if they have an opportunity, they throw you in jail for being an inconvenience to them. For being poor.

            Living well is not an option in the US. I know in other places like Europe, they do not take away your health care. So at least you have that. They do in the US. Staying alive (barely) just to be a pain in the ass and to impose myself upon them and to remind them of what they have done and that their is a heaven and a hell and that they are going to hell is about the closest I can come to living well.

            Hope you appreciate my efforts. Even after my death, I want my inanimate and decomposing body to be a pain in their ass. Unfortuantely living well is not an option. We really are at war. And there really are casualties and even death. Please do not forget who your enemy is and why it is an enemy. It is because of conclusions drawn by remarkable scholars who have analyzed objectively facts and data gathered in compliance with the Scientific Method show that some people want more than everyone else and don’t care how they get it. Some people are evil. And they will not stop persecuting innocent and responsible men and their children until they have been forced to do so.

            “You may even find one who’ll become a lifelong companion, who knows?”

            I’m kinda thinking not – LOL. I won’t be searching until this war has reached its inevitable conclusion.

          • Aimee McGee

            Daryll X, I hope some day you meet a woman who is not going to take advantage of you. Please feel free to come over to a Shrink4men if you need a space to explore the emotional after effects – there are good people there who are working through this stuff

      • Alek

        I’m sad to say I don’t like what I’m seeing here. The swarm of people replying to Greyfeld responded in a very feminist-like fashion.

        I even saw someone accusing him of “derailing”. What is this, a feminist community flipped upside down to serve men? Next time I see an MRA accusing someone of “derailing” merely for asking evidence, proof or data I’m gonna vomit. Brings up memories of discovering feminist sites too closely.

        Greyfeld asked a very reasonable and rational question of “can you tell me xyz or show me abc” and he was given answers like “well you haven’t taken the red pill yet” alongside 2 page rants. Sounds awfully familiar to skeptics on feminist sites being told “shut up and read more patriarchy theory” or “check your privilege”.

        It’s not that I don’t trust Dannyboy (I do, I love the guy), but Greyfeld is correct, the story is vague, full on emotions, and low on specifics.

        I’m not saying that this is wrong, I just concur that objectively Greyfeld is right on that front. I also agree that people new to the movement will not be swayed by this story (precisely because it’s low on specifics). Yelling to them “believe the pill” isn’t very effective (sorry guys).

        People outside the MRA are already super-skeptical of most of the stuff we say. They can only be won by specifics, data and hard-facts. People we can win-over with emotions are not someone we want. I don’t want to see an MRA movement based on emotion – that’s feminism for men (not interested sorry). Emotion driven movements produce ideologues. Data-driven movements produce justice-fighters.

        • Adam

          I agree with Alek’s assessment. We need no shaming here or demand that others follow the MRA herd.

          The truth is our ally and by bringing it to light, we can show the world over that this situation sucks! People, such as Dannyboy in his post and others, are tortured until they are compelled to give in. That we live in a world of extortion and corruption.

          • Sasha

            Alek, Adam,

            I agree that we should never descend to the level of the feminists. ‘Derailing’ is just one of those words, like ‘problematic’, whose natural home is on the Good Men Project, where it can huddle up against the cold alongside other bankrupted nouns who were once really useful, like ‘patriarchy’.

            However I disagree that Dannyboy needs to ‘provide evidence’, we’re not the Feds here – he doesn’t need to DO anything he doesn’t want to. It’s a thought-piece, a riff, a sharing of experience. You want footnotes and references? There’s a place for them, sure, but not always.

            I thought Dannyboy’s piece was as much for him as for us. That’s OK. If you can’t do that here, where can you?

            Thanks for sharing Dannyboy. Stay strong.

          • Greyfeld

            @Sasha

            While I don’t deny any person the very therapeutic action of sharing their trauma with those who will listen, I feel that such sharing should be contained within a less public space. The articles here on AVfM should, in my opinion, be more journalistic in nature. They’re effectively the voice of AVfM (and by extension, one of the larger voices of the MRM), and so they should present a font of information, experience, and activism.

            Dannyboy’s story, while tragic in its own way, is essentially an emotion-laden anecdote, which is probably more appropriately written as a blog, or a forum thread, where personal experiences can be shared between friends and acquaintances who are more interested in delving down others’ personal rabbit holes.

            On the other hand, if he chose to expand his story to share the facts of the larger picture, the story would serve a larger purpose. Aside from giving it more validity, it would give AVfM an additional cornerstone of experience to build its message upon. But as it currently stands, that’s simply not the case.

        • Greyfeld

          Thank you for your post. I logged in today to see a barrage of accusations, and wasn’t sure where (or if) to start. I was fully ready to shrug my shoulders and let them pat each other on the back as they slammed the one person asking for a more objective view of the situation.

          Fact is, I know there’s shit wrong with society. There are areas that men are fully fucked, and they need to be fixed. I’ve been in the system before (Both as a minor, and as an adult. I’m not going to say why, because it’s irrelevant, and some of it is very personal.), so I know what it can be like on the other side of the justice system. I know what it feels like to fear for your safety, and to wonder if somebody is going to help when push comes to shove.

          But that doesn’t mean that I have to look at every emotion-laden story and accept its validity when the story-teller is blatantly withholding information. I’m a skeptic first and foremost. I demand facts and full disclosure before deciding on my opinion or drawing any sort of conclusion.

          And frankly, I don’t care which side of the Feminist/MRM debate you fall on, I’m going to attempt to approach every discussion with a view of logic, objectivity and equal opportunity.

          • Alek

            I’m not actually an MRA for that reason because I don’t feel I am ready for prescriptive opinions.

            MRA involves activism and prescriptive demands (society should do this, society shouldn’t do that). That’s way too complex for me, and I don’t think I’m yet capable of saying what society should or shouldn’t do.

            This is why I restrict myself to “gender truth seeker”. I only want to know and dig for the truth. I want to uncover the truth, blast it out loud, and then let society have an honest discussion on whether things are right or not.

            (This is going to sound odd), but I actually wouldn’t even mind if society pampered and gave women extra privileges AS LONG AS IT WAS HONEST ABOUT IT. Because if feminism ADMITS what it does, and society ADMITS what it does to boys and girls, and society is STILL ok with it – then that’s their collective decision. My only problem is that society right now has NO IDEA what’s happening to boys and that someone sneaked in a new gender contract without letting anyone know.

            If society came out and said “Hey, we’re putting up a law to give women extra privileges coz they have wombs, so we’ll give them this and this and this and this extra privilege” —> I’d be like “ok, my job is done, they told the truth, now I’ll let others fight whether this is right or wrong”.

            My ONLY issue is with society, academia and the media LYING THEIR ASSESS OFF about gender. The thing that pissess me off isn’t ineqaulity toward men per se. It’s all the LIES around it. It’s where men are treated like crap, while simultaneously told that they’re “privileged”.

            Society currently does this.

            – Let’s lie that women are disadvantaged,
            – Let’s lie that men have it easy
            – Because we find women to be weaker and needing more protection
            – And we also need their wombs, so they’re more valuable to us evolutionarily speaking
            – But let’s not admit we’re doing all of this because it might make women feel bad to know that we’re pampering them due to their wombs, so let’s couch all of this in patriarchy theory, and make up lies about how we’re only being fair to women to protect them from the “big bad men”

            That’s the shit that gets me.

            I’m not so appalled by the fact that feminists push laws allowing random women to fuck over unattractive men with sex-harassment suits. THE THING THAT GETS ME IS THE DISHONESTY AROUND IT.

            If feminists passed a law that said “we want women to be able to treat unattractive men like shit” – I’d be like “ok, my job is done, they admitted it”. I’d let someone else fight the fight over whether it’s right to give women the right to fuck over men for merely being unattractive (and not arousing enough).

            I don’t mind the fact that women use creep-shaming to blast lower-status men. It’s the DISHONESTY around it that gets me. The fucking double-speak and hiding their shallowness behind invented dumbass pseudo-intellectual theories.

            If they come right out and say “hey, I want it to where if a man doesn’t make me wet, I can completely destroy him” -> I’d be like “oh, she admitted it, my job is done”. I would feel no emotion toward it. At least more men could choose MGTOW. Right now society is simultaneously interested in lying to men that they’ll all be treated fairly by women, while giving women tools to treat men unfairly.

            I detach myself from things and look at things from the big picture. Perhaps biological evolution is meant to favor and give extra benefits to womb-carriers (females)? I don’t know and I don’t care. My only issue is that I want society to be HONEST when it gives women extra privileges and treats men like shit.

            I just want there to be an honest discussion so that the people can COLLECTIVELY decide if it’s right or not. Right now the feminists have sneaked in a gender contract under the guise of the night, where society doesn’t even know the contract has changed.

          • Alek

            I have a question to the three people who downvoted me. Did you read the comment in its entiery, or did you downvote on a knee-jerk reaction past the first sentence?

        • Tawil

          Agree with everything you wrote above Alek. I thought the questions raised by Greyfeld were completely valid and in fact were the same questions that arose in my mind when reading the article…. what were the police responding to? Why were they behaving that way? That missing detail made it harder to understand the issues at play. With that said I still got a lot out of Dannyboy’s description of how he (and many men) are treated by the system, and how he responded to it.

          Greyfeld: keep bringing your logic, objectivity and sense of equal opportunity here… its appreciated.

        • Theseus

          Alek, as a general application, I agree with everything that you wrote. No one posting on this site should be shamed for asking for specifics or applying logic and reason to any given topic.

          I also agree that Dannyboys piece wouldn’t be the greatest article to present to the general public as evidence that men are being fucked over by the system.

          With that being said however, I looked at Dannyboys article as a personal journal or memoir, if you will, of his experiences as a man in our current system of justice. Nothing more. Nothing less.

          Was it emotional and did it strike a cord? You bet. Was Dannyboy writing for the “crowd”? Maybe so. However, taken for what it is, does that make it any less valid? No.

          Currently, AVFM has a large number of well researched articles that are backed up by data, logic and facts. As long as we can make the distinction, I think there is a place on AVFM for personal experiences like Dannyboys.

          • http://mrathunderinthehammer.blogspot.com/ Dannyboy

            Alek et al,
            I appreciate all your constructive criticisms.
            About the only one that pissed me off was Greyfeld’s part about there not being collusion and or a conspiracy of sorts in the family / justice system.
            All one has to do is look at the Filler, Smith and Kirk cases among others on AVfM to know there is something rotten in the state of Denmark.

            I didn’t write this piece to document the tragic events.

            Hell I don’t see them as tragic so why should you all?

            I got bullied by Goliath, I spat in his face, now my name gets dropped they know they are in for a fight, and I’m not afraid to take it to them in non-violent ways they never imagined.

            I wrote this piece to let you all know that there is a guy in Hamilton who is fighting for everyone of my brothers rights.
            See people like JTO, the Chicago group, the Seattle group, the Edmonton Group, me and every other person who takes a stand against misandry need you all as a safety net.
            Those of us who are on the front line putting up posters, speaking out, taking a stand in the courts need you to be with us.
            We stand the very real risk of being arrested and or retaliation for our actions to get misandry purged from society.
            And if we don’t let the readers know what we have done, where we have been, what stands we have taken how can we ever feel justified if we asked for your support if one of us was ever incarcerated?
            Through journal / memoir type articles we are creating a part of MRM history and the downfall of feminism.
            Something that IMHO is needed.

          • Alek

            Why are you ascribing things I didn’t say to me? I’m not greyfield. I’m a separate unique human being with separate unique views…

            The fact that I defended Greyfield’s right to say things without being internet-lynched doesn’t mean I support eveyrhing he said or am saying the same things…

            wtf?

            Illustration
            Greyfield: abc
            Swarm: SHUT UP, DERAILER
            Alek: You know he should be able to say abc without being stoned
            Theseus: Alek, you know I don’t agree with you that abc.

            BUT I NEVER SAID “abc”. I was just supporting greyfeld’s right to say it.

            As long as we can make the distinction, I think there is a place on AVFM for personal experiences like Dannyboys.

            I NEVER SAID THERE WASN’T a place… I’m not greyfeld. I was just supporting his right to say it. I didn’t actually say it myself.

          • Alek

            @Dannyboy

            Alek et al,
            I appreciate all your constructive criticisms.
            About the only one that pissed me off was Greyfeld’s part about there not being collusion and or a conspiracy of sorts in the family / justice system.

            I NEVER SAID THAT – I’m not greyfeld, wtf?

            Greyfeld said a dozen things. I defended his right to say all dozen of them, and I agree on the logic on a few of them. That doesn’t mean I’m saying the same things.

            Why are you calling up my name “alek et al”, in order to say which greyfeld part you didn’t like? I don’t get it?

            What “alek et al?’ Is there some group with supposed unified views? I don’t even get all these comments calling up my name, and then linking me to things greyfeld said. What’s up with what?

          • http://mrathunderinthehammer.blogspot.com/ Dannyboy

            Alek,
            et al just means and others.
            I was making a blanket statement to everyone who got in on that part of the comment section.
            Your name is just the first alphabetically, hence your name et al. I didn’t intend to link you in any way shape or form.
            Yes Greyfeld made that one part of a comment, not you.
            My apologies as it seems my comment was interpreted differently than I intended.

          • Theseus

            @ Alek

            Whoa. Bro’ frankly I’m surprised. I think we have a slight misunderstanding.

            I said: “I agree with everything that you wrote. No one posting on this should be shamed for asking for specifics or applying logic and reason to any given topic”.

            Isn’t that in complete agreement with the point that you made? BTW I also agree with you on the “derailing” example that you just gave.

            I agreed that Dannyboys article is”vague, full of emotion, and low on specifics”. That is why in the second paragraph, I said that his article wouldn’t be the greatest evidence on the plight of men to present to the general public.

            The rest of my post was my personal take on the situation. The quote that you listed , was a clarification of my view point; It was not a disagreement or an attempt to put words in your mouth. Perhaps I should have been clearer?

            Sorry about the mix up.

  • Gamerp4

    Fantastic, Impressive and Ever youthful DannyBoy.

    Your words just made me feel proud, We are having a war that can be dangerous but we will do it for the humanity, Men and Boys of the next generation may never remember us but still we will pave a way that can be comfortable for them in the near future.

    Go On Brother, You’re one of the Inspirational MRA we got.

  • Theseus

    Sir, you are an inspiration. If I ever find myself in a similar situation, I can only hope that I would have an ounce of the courage and resolve that you displayed in this travesty of justice.

  • Tim Legere

    Unbelievable. Thank you for sharing your experience Danny.

  • http://mrathunderinthehammer.blogspot.com/ Dannyboy

    Huge thanks to Dr. F for his edit on this piece.
    It was a long one but he did an amazing job on it and am extremely grateful for his efforts.

    These events start on August 24, 2010.

    This was a fairly brutal time in my life and while it most likely had some long term detrimental affects health wise, I would take the same stand if given the chance to do so today.

    It is also part of the reason why I am on AVfM. See I take FTSU seriously, but always in a non-violent way.

    Like I said in the article at that point in time my knowledge and understanding of misandry was limited to the ‘justice’ system, now I am able to converse and or debate on numerous topics of misandry in society today.

    Due to the written words of Paul, JTO and others I am now able to refute many of the blue pill ideas which spew forth from feminists tongues today. I don’t think there is a time in my day where I am not ready, willing and able to do a little FTSU if I catch some feminist spewing lies.

    Drag their lying asses out into the light of day is the best policy. FTSU in action.

    Thanks for reading everyone, the events aren’t pretty but such is life.

    • TigerMan

      Wow what happened to you was very Kafkaesque. What is scary is that despite your consistently non violent stance even at point of arrest you were treated as if a very dangerous individual. Of course we have leaders and the MSM feeding and supporting an orthodoxy that contains a poisonous amalgam.
      This amalgam contains a high proportion of bias towards men via the use of strategic application of so called male chivalry and the divisive forms of feminism. Such political orthodoxy is as impervious to reason ability as any other religious version since power is vested in the upholding of its dogmas not it’s compromise.
      This can never be a pleasant experience when challenging it especially when they have you firmly in it’s grip (literally!).
      It does however serve as a sobering reminder of what we are up against and the need for a fundamental positive shift either through new and better ideas “having their time” and\or revolutionary change brought about by strategic activism.
      I am delighted that you have shared your experiences here because at the very least they can serve to open the eyes of those who are blase and or unaware how poisonous and socially negative our orthodoxy has become. :-)

  • lensman

    Man, your story is something else.

    Prior to reading it, my opinion of the American Legal System was lower than a midget’s kneecaps. Now it’s lower than a rat’s testicles.

    Fridge horror has just set in. All of this is happening in a supposedly free and democratic country where freedom is supposedly valued…

    Words fail to descride the effect that your story has on me. You truly are an inspiration.

    As, a side note, when this happens again, you are no longer alone.The next time somebody will be with you on that court-room (probably with a hidden camcorder).

  • Bombay

    Thank you Dannyboy.

    Your experience documents the reason that prison rape is not stopped. This is one of the tools that government uses to coerce men. I expected that this threat would have been used as I read your ordeal. Perhaps that is what they hoping for as you were put with more dangerous people.

  • Augen

    This was an inspiring, very upsetting and moving read

    • danipettas

      Agreed

  • tallwheel

    I would wager few feminists have the pleasure of explaining the ‘plight of women’ to jail guards and inmates in a similar fashion. That’s the difference between their problems and real problems.

  • the Tired Low Social

    if i may, would i be able to ask what the offending statement was? i like to get in decent level of in-depth on things as it helps me understand everything better

  • Kimski

    Thumbs up, Dannyboy.
    Thanks for sharing, bro’, you’ve shown real courage.

  • OneHundredPercentCotton

    So half of all marriages end in divorce, and a VERY large number of those divorces end up in Family Court, exposing hundreds of thousands of men to the reality that our Just Us System is very corrupt and very broken.

    Why is there nothing but silence from the hundreds of thousands of people gettting a first hand education in how the system really works?

    Is everyone too caught up in their own pain, or feeling so isolated they don’t know what a large voting bloc they are?

    We have hundreds of thousands of American Boys attending college and being told on no uncertain terms they no longer have Constitutional Due Process Rights….and again, silence….

    Countless men are arrested and put on restraining orders over bogus DV accusations. Silence prevails.

    False rape accusations. CPS child snatchings. Traffic court, for christ’s sake!

    The majority of Americans have to know that something very wrong is going on….

    Yet silence is the only response…Where and when is the tipping point on this madness?

  • Augen

    Forcing a person, or forcing people, to live in injustice, live in oppression.

    That is what I understand fascism to be. That to me, is the antithesis of freedom. They are wholly, totally incompatible and utterly unreconcilable.

    Forcing a person to live in squalor, suffering or a state of oppresion, with: (1) no means to improve his or her own state, (2) no means to escape, (3) to permit no means by a person to simply stop LIVING in collusion with his imposed state of oppression or injustice- to prevent him or her from non-violently, non-warfully resisting oppression or injustice, up to an including his or her own death, with his or her own life, which is the ONE, SINGLE INVIOLATE thing, … to prevent a person from resisting oppression or injustice even non-violently with his or her own life, through for example a hunger protest … that is fascism. That is antithetical to freedom.

    That is one reason why this article is so upsetting to me. It appears that at least in Canada, authorities must resort to any means they can to stop a hunger protest.

    Here in the US, MANY courts have established precedent for force-feeding prisoners who hunger protest.

    This isn’t impossible for me to live with, but it takes the shades off my eyes.

    This isn’t the country I grew up to believe in and when we will not allow prisoners to exercise their own conscience to hunger strike, we have taken a long, deep dive into fascism that is so much further than waterboarding and torture, that one almost worries that the Patriot Act was just meant to distract us.

    It is easier for a prison system and its attendants to violate a prison, 15-45 minutes every day, than it is for our system, country, society or government to come to terms with states of injustice and oppression than many find intolerable to the point of hunger strike.

    I do not believe that I can count myself in the “tolerate a little fascism” crowd. None.

    Behave, and prosper. Nazi Germany offered that bargain and there were people who prospered.

    Mis-behave, and be removed from the mainstream, be stripped of habeus corpus, and protest with your life if you want … it doesn’t matter, because we won’t even allow that.

    Freedom here
    Fascism there
    Unless you misbehave in freedom
    Then we take it away

    There are simple, simple freedoms that we cannot do without. We cannot do without habeus corpus. We cannot do without an inviolable right to hunger strike, especially by prisoners. We are already too far, terrifyingly far, down a road that has no left or right turn to safety. The only way is reversal, or resistance.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW
  • The Unforgiven

    @ OneHundredPercentCotton

    Because most people are trained to conform to the system at all cost or risk ridicule, humiliation and punishment by peers, the state and the media. Its the reason most men wont stand against injustice, because standing up means being singled out, shamed and ridiculed.

    And there is always a drug of your choice available to medicate your pain, whether it be sports, television, video games, porn, et cetera. A form of instant gratification is available 24/7 to help you zone out and forget about the injustice of society, why fight the oppressive system, when you can play Xbox and fight the Covenant in Halo or watch some football instead, after all fighting for your rights is hard work and takes to much time.

    Then again I wouldn’t blame anyone for choosing to zone out and give up entirely, I often hear people complain that young men in my generation are addicted to video games and porn, can anyone blame us? If you ask me its just the symptoms of young men deciding not to be slave work mules for the state and finding at least something that makes them semi happy.

    It seems like every day we are getting closer to living in some sort of warped gynocentric totalitarian state were you can be locked up for merely looking at a women funny. Judging by the number of men currently in prison, the stripping of civil rights, the never ending wars the US are involved in and the the stories I have heard such as Dannyboy’s, that day is almost here or it has been here for some time?

    “The great strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it.” – Adolph Hitler

  • http://www.backlash.com rodvanmechelen

    The longest I’ve fasted was 10 days. It seemed longer.

    Several years ago Roy Lambert staged a hunger strike on the sidewalk outside the King County Courthouse in Seattle to protest being barred from seeing his children. Nothing came of it. I get an email every now and then from Roy. Far as I know, he still has not seen his daughters.

    Before Roy’s hunger strike, several MRAs in the Seattle area staged a protest march on the Seattle Times. I forget what the issue was. Nothing really came of it.

    I believe that Christopher Robbins (singer, same agent as Tom Jones, lives in Humphrey Bogart’s old house) is still painting purple hearts on his house to lament each day he has not seen his son.

    A fellow named Usher, don’t remember his first name, staged a national protest over a misandrous movie. Nothing came of it, that I recall, just a mention in the new, little more than a footnote. “MRAs march to protest but nobody cares; more news after this.”

    Flash to the present. The oligarchs who hold the reins of power are getting nervous. Not because of the MRAs. Flyspecks are just a nuisance. What worries them is the global economy. In a few countries they have riots and unrest. Within five years these will spread to the anglosphere colonies, including the US and Canada.

    Few of the oligarchs will suffer financial ruin. Their wealth will diminish, but relative to the rest of us they will be wealthy, still. Maintaining their power and stability is what concerns them, most.

    To maintain the power, government agencies are preparing for violence. In the US, even the Social Security Administration is getting armed to the teeth. All indications are that in the US, the feds are prepared to respond to unrest with severe violence. And they are labeling the slightest criticism “potential terrorist.” I read about this a few weeks ago. Doubtless, some of you here know about this. I intend to look it up and write about it.

    Confronted with the fact that the US and other governments are prepared to mete out harsh reprisals, and that Congress continues to try to pass laws that will empower them to shut down all political blogs, I do not see anything good coming out of the MRM engaging in standard protest methodologies.

    • Darryl X

      I like the comment you’ve posted. It shows a comprehensive understanding of our problem. And I want to expand on it.

      For one, I think your interpretation about our government agencies, even ones not associated with law enforcement, arming themselves to the teeth is a good observation that not too many are aware of. But I want to present an alternative reason to the one you presented. I don’t think these agencies are buying billions of hollow-points in preparation for violence. I toyed with the idea that they were supporting commodity prices but dismissed that explanation because there are better and less provacative ways to do it. Then I came up with the idea that the government is using these agencies to remove hollow-point bullets from the market so others can’t buy them. I don’t know it’s a thought.

      New York State has huge natural gas reserves beneath the Marcellus Shale. The State has always been very independent of the US federal government. It’s fair to say that the NYS government hates the federal government. And that the NYS government has created even more of a police state than the US federal government. So I was dismayed to learn that the US federal government (the USDA to be precise) was buying vast amounts of land over the Marcellus Shale. This development is very odd.

      Your right to point out that there is a greater context within which our problems as men exist. The economy is a slow-motion train-wreck. Starting about forty-four years ago and accelerating about ten years ago and then even more about five years ago. But feminism is fundamental to this economic collapse. It was engineered by those in power and feminism was its fundamental tool to oppress men and take away their freedom to make responsible choices for themselves and their children.

      This is how governments satisfy their addiction to power and control. And they use the money from trafficking children and enslaving men to do it. Educating people about these developments is futile. Most of them are too short sighted to see or care as they are being bribed by their governments to turn a blind eye. The money for those bribes comes from innocent and responsible men. And the governments use their children to do it. Horrible dynamics. Atrocious. Inhuman. Uncivilized. The US has emerged as the most malevolent regime in the history of the world.

      Trying to educate people is really not much of an option. It won’t help. But it can’t hurt. So might just as well try. Most people aren’t going to listen. The only real value is to show other men in similar situations that they are not alone. Activism like with the whores Mary Kellett and Lori Jackson will help too. But not much. There are thousands of them. They can’t be stopped.

      We need to find a solution which does not involve engaging our government. That is something we can’t win (I believe). It’s simply too big. I’ve promoted the idea of finding a place (state, country, territory, whatever) to which men may escape. All they need when they get there is adequate shelter, nutrition, health care and transportation to affect these. There is no frontier to which a man may escape anymore. And the US government is cracking down on passports. Rather than letting men it doesn’t want around to leave. Idiots. But maybe there is someplace to which men may escape.

      As you’ve pointed out correctly, the economy is collapsing and the impact on men will be disproportionately great. And the governments are preparing by buying hollow-points and natural gas reserves. Even if these purchases may be illegal. There are no laws operating anymore. Men are not protected by them. I do not think any man can do it alone. His survival will depend upon cooperation with other like-minded men. But the government must be kept out and disengaged. It is evil. And so are feminists. Feminists must be destroyed. But leave them to their own devices. They will eventually destroy themselves. Men need to concentrate on helping other men and shunning feminists. Refuse to acquiesce to their manipulation of others with the public spectacle of their chronic victimhood.

      There are dark days ahead.

      • Skeptic

        Rural Mexico?

        • Bombay

          I would think it would be a place where food is best grown and has good Internet. With telecommuting, the “colony” could function quite well while the world still limbs along and with good agriculture would last when the world fell apart – and yes rural.