Male reproductive rights

Male reproductive rights—female non-responsibility

In my opinion, the most culturally revealing issue currently discussed in MHRM circles is that of male reproductive rights. The current paradigm of reproductive rights is a morally indefensible double standard wherein the female is valued for her humanity and the male for his utility.

It is one wherein the female gets to decide when the male is exploring his humanity and when he is reproducing, and one wherein she is under no obligation to inform him which act he is engaged in. It is one wherein the female can use her reproductive power to legally impose involuntary servitude on the male for the purposes of financing her reproductive decision.

What virtually everyone in the MHRM sees as a self-evident and fundamental human right is nevertheless vehemently argued against by the majority of people in this society. And in MHRM circles, there is a general unspoken belief that if we find an argument that is more elegantly constructed, or imbued with some higher order of reason, our point will be acknowledged and accepted. As a result, many well-reasoned arguments have been made to support male reproductive rights.

My favorite entry into this discussion was fielded by John Hembling, who recently addressed this topic with a nice article, and Paul Elam and Girlwriteswhat have also provided excellent videos on the subject.

So what can I possibly add to the discussion?

The limitation we face doesn’t exist with respect to the quality of our arguments. The limitation exists in the values of those with whom we argue, and this is an important distinction to understand. The fundamental problem with addressing this topic is that the discussion occurs across two different value sets. Neither side feels heard after the debate because neither side spoke to the other’s values. Thus, any discussion on male reproductive rights is incomplete without deconstructing the value underlying opposition to the topic’s validity. Regardless of how well-reasoned an argument, if those judging it have a deeply rooted cultural value or belief related to that argument, it will result in a bias.

All MHRM arguments on male reproductive rights hinge on a value of female responsibility, every single one of them. Our society does not value male reproductive rights simply because it does not value female responsibility. Those arguing against male reproductive rights cannot conceive of such a thing, fundamentally because they cannot conceive of female responsibility.

Female non-responsibility is the embedded bias in those evaluating any MHRM discussion on male reproductive rights, and it is the limiting factor for progress in this area. Structuring better arguments in support of male reproductive rights is therefore irrelevant, because the limiting factor is a culture that does not value or even expect female responsibility.

For those new to the MHRM, we value female responsibility very highly. We believe it is only natural to expect equal responsibility and accountability from men and women. We expect men and women to take responsibility for their choices. We expect them to take responsibility for their safety (no, we don’t blame victims), and we expect them to take responsibility for their actions, criminal or otherwise. We view women as human beings possessed of all the same cognitive faculties of higher reasoning as men, and we thus see no reason to hold them to a lower standard of responsibility.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of our society does not share our views. Our society does not believe in female responsibility. Neither traditionalists, nor indeed the vast majority of feminists, believe in female responsibility. The feminists might claim to, but their activism proves otherwise. The part feminism played in entrenching cultural female non-responsibility is something I’ll comment on at length in my next article.

As a value, female non-responsibility is pervasive and might well be considered the fuel that feeds our fires, and the light that guides our way. The cultural preeminence of this value would put cold fusion to shame if it could be harnessed as an energy source. It’s the psychoactive ingredient that makes the blue pill potent, and it has our society teetering ever more dangerously close to a complete overdose with each passing year.

And at this point, rehab is going to be a bitch.

So it is fully predictable that attempting to promote a human rights agenda that hinges on a value of female responsibility is virtually guaranteed to fail. Depending on our culture to understand arguments that hinge on female responsibility is like depending on the Westboro Baptist Church to understand arguments that hinge on cultural sensitivity. These are non-universal cultural values. Not everyone gets it.

This is made clear by the following unfortunate reality of Western culture. Where male reproductive rights are concerned, our society is faced with a choice between female responsibility and male slavery …

… and it chooses male slavery.

I’m not going to deconstruct any of the most common arguments made against male reproductive rights. If you’re interested, watch any of the semiconscious individuals on YouTube espousing these arguments and you’ll see the value of female non-responsibility in action.

Among those opposing male reproductive rights, two groups have emerged. Among the first group are those who believe imposing involuntary servitude on a male is preferable to expecting a female to take responsibility for her body and her choice. Among the second group are those who essentially understand this is immoral, but nevertheless view the problem as an irreconcilable paradox because they can’t wrap their minds around the concept of female responsibility.

Feminism is to blame for this cultural stupidity, because feminism casts women as an oppressed class of non-responsible victims. With pregnancy seen through this filter, our culture essentially sees a pregnant woman as one who has been victimized, even if the pregnancy was of her own choosing. This effect works in tandem with a “patriarchal” reproductive contract still upon us that takes a dim view of men not “taking responsibility” and providing reproductive security for women.

In other words, feminists have amplified female non-responsibility as a cultural value while holding men to the patriarchal paradigm of hyper-responsibility.

Where reproduction was concerned, the “patriarchy” was fundamentally little more than a social contract between female reproductive power and male labor and productivity. Love was often a catalyst for the acceptance of this contract, but in many cases it was not necessary. This system was designed to deploy male responsibility in the form of productivity, in order to enable female reproductive security during a time when the world was much more dangerous than it is today. By trading his labor, the male was able to reproduce. This reproductive philosophy has served our species for centuries.

The patriarchal paradigm was also one wherein technological limitations meant that sex would result in pregnancy, and pregnancy would result in childbirth. Females, just like males, were responsible for the sex act that bound them to the chain of causation culminating in parenthood. As such, female responsibility played no uniquely important role in the patriarchal reproductive paradigm, and their culturally acceptable non-responsibility was never made apparent in matters of reproduction.

A womanizing man was looked upon very dimly, because he was essentially breaking the patriarchal reproductive contract. He was accessing female reproductive power for his own pleasure, without contributing his labor and responsibility as called for in the contract. Don Giovanni from Mozart’s famous opera was sent to hell in the finale essentially for engaging in this behavior. Thus, the patriarchal contract always considered it a repugnant act not to provide reproductive security for a pregnant woman.

Modernity arrived and erected three important reproductive boundaries. The first is a boundary separating a sex act and a pregnancy. This boundary is made possible by inexpensive and reliable contraception. The second is a boundary separating a pregnancy from a childbirth. This boundary is made possible by widespread access to safe abortion. The third is a boundary separating childbirth from parenthood. This boundary is made possible by the availability of adoption. In other words, modernity ensured that pregnancy, childbirth, and parenthood would now all be arrived at by choice.

The emergence of these choices, exercised at the discretion of women, meant that female responsibility would play a uniquely important role in the new reproductive paradigm. Unfortunately, as stated above, our society neither values nor particularly expects female responsibility, so females gained reproductive choices while the commensurate responsibilities that would normally accompany those choices remained with males.

The feminist movement purported to move society beyond the patriarchal reproductive contract, but the feminists merely vociferously attacked their own half of the contract while ensuring the other would be enforced. The feminist movement has never fought for female responsibility, but only for female choice. They claimed their choice along with their body, but rejected any accompanying responsibility, and no cultural force expected them to take it. Male responsibility was expected and assumed, and as a result no boundary was made between female reproductive choice and male reproductive responsibility. Thus, our society still uses the patriarchal reproductive contract. Feminists have merely breached the female terms of it.

To put this in perspective, Lindy West’s recent tirade about fighting the patriarchy conspicuously left one fundamentally important male rights issue off the list. Care to guess which one? It isn’t particularly surprising given what I’ve just discussed, since feminists are loath to advocate anything that might involve female responsibility.

I’ll make the necessary addition to her list, since I’m sure it was just an oversight.

“Feminists don’t want men to have to take responsibility for the reproductive decisions of women, the assumption that men are responsible for women’s reproductive security is part of patriarchy.”

Isn’t that right, Lindy?

If “my body, my choice” was to be the paradigm replacing the patriarchal reproductive contract, then it should have followed that a woman would gain the power to choose how to deploy her reproductive power, and a man would gain the power to choose how to deploy his labor. Since our culture doesn’t expect female responsibility, however, it simply compels male responsibility and labor in order to facilitate responsibility-free female reproductive choice.

My personal view on this issue is a simple one. Males in this culture can expect reproductive rights when females in this culture are expected to be responsible for their decisions.

Don’t hold your breath.

About Gordon Wadsworth

Gordon Wadsworth is a Canadian scientist who was also one of Western society's many butlers before swallowing the red pill. He has since traded in his service tray for a refusal to bow or comply, and now endeavors to FTSU.

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  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F (Ian Williams)

    Thank you Gordon Wadsworth for this serving of questions that ask for the truth.

    And speaking of truth, I read your piece and wonder how those that shy from it will handle it as you ask. No doubt some will hunch and snarl as any vampire does when the morning comes.

    What is it that they say, “If you can’t handle the patriarchy then stay away from the kitchen”?

    Fuck ‘em. You do us well to give it as it really is.

    • Gordon Wadsworth

      Thanks, Dr. F.

      I realize this will be somewhat controversial and I guess I just don’t care. Why isn’t state-imposed involuntary male labor considered more controversial?

      To be fair, I realize there are highly responsible, self-actualized women in our culture, but I don’t believe we expect (or value) such attributes in women.

    • Andybob

      You’re back!!!!

      • Lucian Vâlsan

        You replied to a comment that is roughly a year old.

  • PeryMason

    Nice… I have had the same thoughts for years. Im just not so articulate as to present them in such a clear and concise manner.
    Great job.

  • http://www.mralondon.org Andy Thomas (aka “Andy Man”)

    Explained with wonderful clarity. I never failed to be amazed at how well the wool had been pulled over my eyes for most of my life.

    • Gordon Wadsworth

      Thanks, Andy.

  • Stu

    I get sick of hearing about deadbeat dads from feminists, and women in general. You never hear anyone talking about deadbeat mums, but they are far more common. Oh, yes they are.

    For a start, most men raise their children if they are allowed to. Even the men who are booted out of their childrens lives, most of them pay twice, or three times for their childen, and other children that aren’t theirs.

    The man who is divorced when his children are 10yo and 12yo for example, has already raised them for all those years. Then, on divorce, he will usually lose most of his assets, on the assumption that because the woman will have to continue raising the children, she should get most of the assets. Then, after that, he has to pay child support…..derrr. On top of having paid for raising his children to their current age, he has also paid taxes which go to all the welfare for single mothers, and various child welfare payments, for the children of others.

    Then, most of these guys will eventually take up with another women. Usually that woman will have children, and he will share the burden of raising those children also. So, he will be taxed all his life to pay the deadbeat mums. He will pay to raise his children for as long as the mother allows him, and then he will pay after having most of assets confiscated, and pay child support as well, all while continuing to pay the taxes to finance the other deadbeat mum. When he takes up with another women, who is probably receiving some of that tax he pays, as well as child support from the ex, non-deadbeat dad, he will take on at least some of the burden of raising her children too.

    This is the story of most men in the modern western world. The majority. The small amount that don’t pay their child support, are the minority, and most of those are because they have found themselves in situations, through no fault of their own, which makes it impossible for them to pay.

    The law, in fact, never requires a woman to pay for her children. She always has the option of not paying for them, and getting the state, or a man, father or not, or a combination of both of these, to pay for her children.

    A single woman who decides to get pregnant to some guy, can just opt not to work, get welfare, and child support. Actually paying for ones children if you are a woman, is a choice, not an obligation, because the state will take other peoples money, thus forcing them to pay for your children.

    So, why don’t we have a welfare system for deadbeat dads. Why not, we have one for deadbeat mums. Lets have a welfare system for dads who don’t want to pay for their children. They will receive the deadbeat dads pension, which will cover all their livng expenses, plus whatever their child support bills are. This sounds perfectly reasonable to me, since that is effectively what we do for women. It sounds even more reasonable actually, because no woman had a child without choosing it, but hardly any men got consulted in the process.

    Now you don’t have to be an economic genius to work out what will happen, and how this would be paid for, and how this would basically fuck things up. You also don’t have to be a genious to realize that if we had this system, I’m going to be impregnating a many women as possible, the more the better, maybe I’ll stop for a smoke or a coffe break and have Sundays off…..maybe.

    How about when we eventually make the artifical womb. Men will be able to employ these to make lots of lots of babies, and go on welfare. I’m going to be octodad, times 100.

    Lets face it ladies, if men were doing what you do, they would be considered the scum parasites of the earth. But they would never be doing what you do, because nobody would allow it.

    I laugh my head off when I hear some welfare mum bitch about how the dad doesn’t pay LOL. Oh, and you do, by mooching off the welfare system for 10 years or more.

    Want to see deadbeat parents there is plenty of them. The goverment pays them from my hard work, instead of chasing them for money and locking them up if they can’t pay. That is all you need to know about female reproductive responsibility in our society.

    And all this, with the pill, and abortions. Bring on the male pill, and watch how fast the the welfare payments for deadbeat mums shrink.

    • Stu

      Just thought I’d add that I want that male pill completely provided free to all men who want it too, or else I’m just going to have to inform the world that there is a war on men.

      Oh, and those artificial wombs, you got it baby, free of course. You girls get your sperm for free after all, it’s only fair.

    • donzaloog

      Well said.

    • Gordon Wadsworth

      Well said.

    • tamerlame

      Women can dump kids in care for no reason. Why not make them pay child support to the children’s home?

      • Paul Johnson

        This is a point I’ve been wanting to push. That is arguing the equivalence of male child support to women being forced to pay adoption homes (or wherever she took her child) for the next 18 years.

    • se_men

      It came to my mind that if men are replaced with lesbian partners in the husband’s role, how fair these laws of ‘asset division/ alimony/ child support’ will be viewed by feminists and western women? Certainly most homosexual partners prefer mutually beneficial relationship, they should expect equal responsibilties after divorce too. Let’s take the case of ‘”welfare mum bitch about how the dad doesn’t pay “‘, when she does, society supports her but what if the dad is a female lesbo? Will both partners be on welfare then? Lol.

      Also another point in asset division: if one spouse was ‘forced’ to leave her job to take care of children, she is given the lion’s share of assets(made mostly by the spouse who earns), custody, alimony during divorce to keep up with the standard of living. But what if the other spouse was forced to be mostly out of his children’s life to work full time in a low-paid job just for the necessities of the family? He also suffers loss of benefit, lower standard of living due to joblessness of the other spouse and increased expenses after the child’s birth. What if the wife simply chose not to work and the husband is put in this situation? Where is his compensation?

      • Carlos

        Lesbian relationships are a gold mine of feminist hypocrisy. They generally advocate for full and equal rights for the lesbian “partner” of the biological mother while engaging in all manner of schadenfreude with regards to father’s rights. Further, there was recently a very high profile federal prosecution of a lesbian mother who parentally alienated the child from her ex-partner and fled the country to avoid loss of custody. I have very rarely seen such an effort put forth on behalf of a biological father… much less a step-father. And don’t get me started on domestic violence rates with lesbian couples.

    • Steve_85

      WHY CAN’T I UPVOTE THIS MOAR!?

  • Rog

    child support $75000+
    reversal of vasectomy $7000
    and they refuse to give men a vasectomy before they are 40 why again?(canada)

    • scatmaster

      and they refuse to give men a vasectomy before they are 40 why again?(canada)

      Well they do allow it but only if you are married and have your wife’s permission. Seriously.

      • Ben

        Holy fuck that’s misandric as hell. I guess vasectomies are an attack on women’s rights. And men are perfectly FINE with these types of laws! They go in for a vasectomy and when they are told that they need to be married and have their wife’s permission, they shrug and say, “Oh, okay. Do you have any permission slips that I can take to her? Thank you very much and have a nice day.” WTF????????

        I swear, on any university campus in the USA, Canada, western Europe, or Austrailia, a student would be applauded if he stood on the front steps and said:

        “I do not support men’s rights. I support women’s rights.”

        • feeriker

          I guess vasectomies are an attack on women’s rights.

          Of course. They interfere with a woman’s right to the sperm-on-demand that provide her with a meal ticket (i.e., baby) and weapon (i.e., child support/alimony) to hold against a man’s throat. Don’t you know that it’s a man’s RESPONSIBILITY to be a babydaddy?

          I can’t for the life of me understand why there aren’t underground vasectomy clinics all over the western world.

          • Ben

            So true. You know, vasectomy is not really a good procedure, anyway. It is sometimes not reversible. So, when a man is young, and he is just trying to protect himself from feminist reproductive totalitarianism in which he can become enslaved by whatever woman comes into contact with his sperm, with or without his consent, he has this desperate procedure done. Then, when he is in his middle thirties or early forties, he decides to have children. But the feminazi governance will have already taken that away from him, in the likely event that his vasectomy is not reversible. I sometimes wish there were no interference with reproduction of any kind in place, actually: no abortion, no vasectomy, no contraceptive. You would see feminism begin to diminish and personal responsibility and in-tact families start to become the norm again. Just a thought, of course.

          • Paul Johnson

            There probably are.

      • feeriker

        I’m in the wrong profession. I should’ve gone to med school, majored in urology, and opened up an underground vasectomy clinic.

  • Falland

    Men have two technological aces up their sleeves. The first is that within decades, possibly one decade, we will see a safe and reliable male birth (fertility)control pill. The second is DNA.

    It probably will not have as great an impact as the women’s pill but a MBCP will definitely have an impact on sexual politics and the balance of power between men and women. Once there is a MBCP women will no longer be able to completely control the timing of their pregnancies. This will force their hands giving men far more leverage than they currently have which is almost none. The price for riding the cock carousal will have increased making women more prone to settle rather than endlessly play the field. Women will still be able to find some schmuck to get them pregnant but they will find that there will be fewer alphas or men with higher sexual market value to do the deed. The men who will be most inclined to use a MBCP will be the ones with the most to lose. Most of the oops pregnancies I have been aware of are always more of a surprise for the men. Go figure. Now it will be the other way around.

    The other card men hold is DNA. In my humble opinion, this will be the biggest game changer of all. For the first time in human history, men can now be 100% certain of the paternity of their children. Up until this point all of our biology, laws, and cultural norms have been stacked to compensate for the fact that only one side really knew the cards they were holding. Over time there will be a stronger connection to biological parenthood and children rather than a legal construct as it is now. It will be used increasingly to assess financial responsibility thereby punishing “alphas” for their easy access to pussy and it will weaken the link beta taxpayers have to publically support bastardry. The mating strategy of Benobos, our closest link, is precisely to use promiscuity to mask parenthood thereby insuring the baby chimps will receive support and cooperation from all members of the society. Once everybody has to show their hand the bets will have to be collected.

    • napocapo69

      Falland, I agree that the “male” pill and the DNA test have a stake, but they are not the main asset of men reproductive rights. They are technicalities, let me explain.
      The real point is that parenthood is a choice that has nothing to do with biology.

      When you decide to be a father of a child then you assume responsibility for lifetime, as it should be. It does not matter if you are the biological father or not, assuming that you are aware of it.

      It is a matter of choices. A man should be granted the right of assuming/denying responsibility of the fatherhood of a child he does not want, even if the child is “produced” with his own “ingredients”. The DNA is not relevant if not just for proving a cheating that undermines his awareness in making the parental choice.

      This must be our battle; a man should “DECIDE” to become father and a woman should not be granted anymore with the escape gate of “he impregnated me”. Women have gained the choice of abortion, the pill and the unilateral possibility of giving the baby for adoption. They have no excuses anymore to conscript men liabilities, and men should not feel anymore bound to situations they were not willing to face, full stop.

      Until we stick to the relationship DNA match=legitimate parenthood, we will always lose, because that is not a choice. Women already have much more than that and men should not feel ashamed of reclaiming their fare share of rights.

      Be prepared to face traditionalists’ shaming more than feminist shaming on this topic.

      • Falland

        Napocapo69,

        I don’t agree with you. I have children and I believe they are my responsibility. I also believe that I have just as much right to be a parent as the mother and certainly more than the state. Yes, she had the medical ability to abort the child while she was pregnant but that is what happens when only one sex can bear children. I also believe that all biological parents who have children are responsible for the consequences. If I wanted more children I would have had them. I am not looking to have a percentage of my hard earned labor siphoned off to pay for other people’s progeny.

        By tightening up the link between biological parenthood and rights / responsibility it will up the ante for both men and women. A MBCP is not a panacea or magic pill and it will simply give men an option they don’t have now. One of the big problems with our society is that women simply do not pay for their risky behavior. If their only option to support themselves and their offspring is by relying on the father then women will be far more careful with whom they become pregnant. They will also think twice about leaving for greener pastures if the children cannot come with them. Men who have children with multiple women will quickly find their resources depleted thus reducing themselves to permanent financial betahood or omegahood (pretty good, I think I just invented two new words) which is just fine by me.

        • Paul Johnson

          Male fertility control, I think, will have a stronger impact than you think. It will cut the birth rate in half, and women and government will respond. Women will negotiate, and government will get even more draconian.

      • tamerlame

        Why are women allowed to dump kids in care then? Both genders should be responsible or neither should be.

      • Paul Johnson

        I’m glad you mentioned traditionalist shaming. I recently followed a “hot on the web” link to National Review on “Feminism should marry the MRM” or something like that to throw in my two cents.

        The shaming is thick there. It’s thicker than it ever was when arguing with feminists. At least feminists pretend to present arguments. With traditionalists, if you don’t accept their bogus premises up front, they go straight to the shaming — and in particularly the gendered shaming.

    • feeriker

      It probably will not have as great an impact as the women’s pill but a MBCP will definitely have an impact on sexual politics and the balance of power between men and women.

      The other card men hold is DNA. In my humble opinion, this will be the biggest game changer of all. For the first time in human history, men can now be 100% certain of the paternity of their children.

      I think you’re waaaaaayyyyy too optimistic here on both counts.

      First of all, I don’t believe for a second that the feminist-dominated governments of the western world are going to allow an MBCP to be anywhere near as freely available as the existing FBCP, and for the reason you cite: it will upset the balance of power by taking it away from women and giving more of it back to men. There is NO WAY that ANY government (all of them have used feminism as a weapon for further entrenching themselves in power) is going to allow any such a thing to happen.

      Second, as far as DNA is concerned, the State does not give a damn what science says. If a woman needs a man to support her bastard offspring (HEAVEN FORBID that she be expected to assume RESPONSIBILITY for these CHOICES she’s made), then the State will force the most conveniently available man to cough up child support for those bastard children, knowing full damned well that said children are not his and that he has no inherent moral obligation under natural law to provide such support. And why does the State do this? The most common excuse that the corrupt, criminal family “law” courts give is that “it is in the child’s best interest to be supported by the person most able to provide that material support” – or some other such weasely, sophistry-laden bullshit. Such legal decisions are not an aberration either. Google “child support payments”+”non-biological father” and you’ll get nearly 350,000 returned hits. It’s happening, guys. With revolting regularity.

      So, in summary, unless the eventually MHRM forces changes in the western world’s legal systems (a Sisyphean task), all the technological advances in the world will count for naught and the status quo will continue.

      • Falland

        Freeriker,

        You might be right. However, if we live long enough we will see everything. Let me explain why I feel the way I do…

        Once the technical aspect of a MBCP is solved, it will be as hard to block as the FBCP is. There are many people, religious or otherwise, that have tried to prevent the spread of birth control. It has not worked. The best opportunity feminists have of blocking it is by strangling it in the crib by preventing research and testing. However, it is going forward in other countries so even if we don’t develop it here, someone else will. At best, they can delay things a little longer.

        As for DNA testing, that cat is already out of the bag. It might take decades for the law to catch up with the science but it will. The feminists are playing with fire because out of all the issues that could galvanize the Men’s Movement and where women occupy the moral low ground, paternity fraud is the one. This could easily be to the MRM what Roe v. Wade and abortion was for the women’s movement. Once again, their only strategy is repression but that can’t succeed for very long. Feminists are doomed on these two issues and if men are smart we will take up the cause handing them a humiliating defeat.

        • Paul Johnson

          It is already on the market in India as RISUG, and it is already in testing in the states as Vasalgel.

  • lensman

    Gordon, your paradigm is a strong and essential one. It brings a whole lot into the discussion that we haven’t considered yet.

    Something else that I’ve noticed in Lindy’s list was that she didn’t address the huge disparity between men and women as far as prison sentencing goes, the fact that over 80% of prison inmates are men and that in places like the UK and Australia, special policies exist that dictate judges to be more lenient and forgiving to women for the same crimes that men do.

    This certainly fits in with the whole paradigm of valuing female non-responsibility.

    So, in addition to what you say about male reproductive rights Lindy West should also add the following item to her list:

    Feminists don’t want you to get higher sentences for the same crimes that women commit. The assumption that men are responsible for everything women do is part of the Patriarchy.

    And, yeah, I won’t hold my breath for that one either.

    So, all in all, my hat’s off to you for taking the discussion to the next level.

    • Gordon Wadsworth

      Thanks, I agree

  • Xayadvara

    Gordon Gordon Gordon,

    Can’t help saying this but you are the class act. Quite the gentleman in your words. Though I do enjoy your writings, I am quite skeptical of the ability of certain rabid folks who are very much entrenched in their “radical notion of humanity” to admire your writings and class.

    It’s like expecting a gorilla to admire the subtlety of Bordeaux wine.

    *Sigh*

    • Gordon Wadsworth

      Far too kind, I’m just a guy who works in a lab. Sounds like I may need to consider a lab in Bordeaux though. :D

  • Bemused Curiosity

    Kinda reminds me of the Concordia propaganda that Barbarossa confronted where they bemoaned men for not letting pregnant women in the life boats or something. Soooo if she is my equal in everyway why do I need to make way for her and her child? So she can row ashore and make her way to an abortion clinic? At which point it becomes ‘my body my choice and none of your business’. So what is it? Apart from the obvious we want it all and will pick the option that suits me best at the time, are you seeking equality and total bodily sovereignty or a place in the life boat ‘cuz Im a pregnant girl’?

    • scatmaster

      and if she makes it out alive, you don’t , and she decides to keep the baby. Guess who goes after ALL the money in your estate even if it is portioned to others and the biatch will get it too.

  • Jolly_Mcfats

    This is one of the best articles on the subject I have seen. Sometimes I can get people to re-think their position for a moment when I point out that if the “war on women’s reproductive freedom” were lost, it would put women in the same place, legally, that men currently occupy. The moment of clarity usually dissipates when they think of how indispensable the current arrangement is for children and women wanting freedom. Male servitude is just too convenient and useful to abandon, and acknowledging it is too ugly a truth. Society will continue to insist that when a man offers sex, he offers fatherhood, but that when a woman offers sex, she only offers sex.

    The best practical hope for men is more effective, convenient, and pleasant forms of birth control.

    • feeriker

      The best practical hope for men is more effective, convenient, and pleasant forms of birth control.

      Good old-fashioned abstinence is still the most effective, if not always the most convenient or pleasant. I also has the added benefit of driving hypergamous vulturettes absolutely bat-shit FURIOUS.

      • MrStodern

        That’s what I chose. I will never stick my dick in a woman, ever. If society thinks I’m worth only the money it can squeeze out of me, then forget it.

  • Ben

    Call me crazy, but I honestly can envision one day that the selective service merges with Roe, requiring 17 year old young men to not only register to bear the burdon of killing and dying for rights that are simply granted to women for free (such as the right to university enrollment), but to also donate sperm and register with an integrated database that tabulates the most current amount of their income along with recent, required photographs and medical records so that women can simply impregnate themselves with “good” men.” At the time of conception, a state agent will send him the bill for child support and alimony, along with a federal government warning of 10 years in prison with hard labor and a $250,000 fine for non-compliance.

    • feeriker

      Given the increasingly dystopian Bizarro World in which we now live, I wouldn’t hold this to the realm of science fiction at all. I would say “don’t give them any ideas,” but I’m sure somebody within the halls of power has already thought of it.

  • OldGeezer

    “In other words, feminists have amplified female non responsibility as a cultural value, while holding men to the patriarchal paradigm of hyper responsibility.”

    Precisely. What was once known more accurately as “women’s liberation” is now advertised as “equality” and has been accepted as such by most of western society, including most of its male membership it seems.

    Men, including MRAs, who currently seem prepared to accept equality as their own goal need to be damned careful about what that actually means and who gets to define it. As you suggest, it’s not going to achieve much so long as the existing societal outlook on the apportionment of privileges and responibilities continues to prevail.

    The accursed “patriarchy” that seems to linger in the minds of feminists and THEIR children has now been entirely deprived not only of its patriarchs but also of any progeny to call its own. One wonders how they might define matriarchy.

    • feeriker

      Men, including MRAs, who currently seem prepared to accept equality as their own goal need to be damned careful about what that actually means and who gets to define it. As you suggest, it’s not going to achieve much so long as the existing societal outlook on the apportionment of privileges and responibilities continues to prevail.

      EXACTLY.

    • se_men

      well said

    • Bewildered

      Patriarchy : Cloak and dagger Matriarchy

      Matriarchy : Full-blown,unabashed gynocracy

  • Truyardy

    As it stands right now, here are the choices available to women and men

    WOMEN:

    1) A woman can have an abortion even if a man wants to keep
    2) A woman can decide to keep even if a man wants her to have an abortion
    3) A woman can change her mind and decide to have an abortion even if she and her partner had previously agreed to have the child
    4) A woman can change her mind and decide to keep even if she and her partner had previously agreed to have an abortion
    5) A woman can have an abortion without even telling the man she was pregnant to begin with
    6) A woman can carry out the term of her pregnancy, raise the child, and not even tell the man that he has a child
    7) A woman can have a child without telling the man she was pregnant, and then if things get too tough in the later stages of the child’s life, she can seek out the man (after YEARS have passed) and force him to pay child support
    8 ) A woman can give a child up for adoption for any reason
    9) A woman can drop a child off at a safe haven for any reason

    MEN:
    )
    )
    )
    )
    )
    )
    )

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

      Now now, don’t go exaggerating. Men can always “keep it in their pants!” That’s a choice, right? And hey, according to Lindy feminists are working really hard to eradicate all the inequities between men and women. I’m sure they’ll have it all squared away in no time.

    • Carlos

      Ahh.. but you forgot men’s only reproductive right and it’s the one that fembots love to throw in my face every time I discuss this topic.

      Men have the right to keep ‘it’ in their pants.

      See? Male reproductive rights!

    • Paul Johnson

      For men, you left out “Can keep it in his pants” and “can go off-grid, avoid law enforcement, and stay grata non persona.”

    • Susie Parker

      1) pay for it or 2) Prison. Two choices.

    • Gavin Grant

      Men have the right to ask their wives for permission if they want to get a vasectomy.

  • shmiggen

    With pregnancy seen through this filter, our culture essentially sees a pregnant woman as one who has been victimized, even if the pregnancy was of her own choosing.

    I realize most people today are not particularly religious, nor am I. However, I was raised a Catholic and one thing that does sadden me is the above view that pregnancy is a right and not a blessing It’s a rather nihilistic worldview and yet it is the air we breathe. Framed in these terms, coupled with the feminist rejection of our collective judeo-christian heritage, the stage is truly set for Oswald Spengler’s reverie. We are in decline, there can be no doubt. When women no longer care about children, and men no longer care about women, it’s time to check out and go mgtow.

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

      Ever try referring to a 35-week fetus as a “baby” in front of a feminist?

      • TigerMan

        “Ever try referring to a 35-week fetus as a “baby” in front of a feminist?”
        Yes and she “retaliated” by insisting that it was in fact a parasite! The cretin thought that was a winning argument!

        • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

          Oooh, parasite! How very edgy! I always hear the dry old “cluster of cells” or “tissue mass.”

          • TigerMan

            Yes but such feminists make me laugh because if they are sincere in their anti-life attitudes then they are also sincerely ensuring their extinction from the gene pool! lol :)

          • http://akseiya.deviantart.com Michał Lech

            “Anti-life”
            Yeah, sure.
            Sorry dude but LIFE is what happens AFTER birth.

          • Dennis Markham

            I guess I’m one of the walking dead then. My mom had a c-section.

          • Stu

            Can’t keep it in your pants if your in a defacto or marriage. Not in Australia It’s dv now for a man to withdraw sex or affection from his wife. It’s also dv for a man to nag, or coerce his wife, who is withdrawing sex and affection from him.

            I’m betting it will be dv for a man to take the pill or have a vasectomy once the male pill is on the shelves too. You’ll need wife’s permission for either.

            Probably be considered rape if a man on the pill or who has had a vasectomy has sex with a woman without informing her that he is shooting blanks, incase the reason she is having sex with him is to rope him into 18 years of child support.

            Fine, I’m sure these laws will drive our numbers ten fold without any effort from us. Every cloud has a silver lining.

          • Fredrik

            My sister is going to have her parasitical tissue mass removed next week! We’re all very excited, but especially me, since I’m hoping for a reprieve from our parents hinting at how much they want grandkids. :)

          • Susie Parker

            ” Removing a Parasitic Growth” is the term I heard, like an unborn child might just as easily turn out to be a wart or cyst instead of a human being.

  • feeriker

    When women no longer care about children, and men no longer care about women, it’s time to check out and go mgtow.

    I’d only revise this to read “When women no longer care about children and when men and women not only no longer care about each other, but are hostile and antagonistic to one another, then it’s time to check out and go MGTOW.”

    Yup.

  • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

    Thank you, Gordon. I have been trying to make this point to so many people for ages.* This article is clear, well organized, and irrefutable. This is the “what, how, and why,” and utterly lacking in “but…but,” and “I feel…” You maintain a strong focus on the most essential points in a VERY important issue. And you should be teaching journalism, before that art is completely lost to mankind.

    *hyperbole, for Joanna.

    • Gordon Wadsworth

      Thanks very much Suzanne. I appreciate it.

      • TigerMan

        Yes I’d like to thank you too. It is very important in such matters as parenting that we focus on what most of us can agree on. That is the measures we may need to take to restore fair and equitable treatment to both parents balancing rights with responsibilities.
        As for parenting “methods” I don’t see cows, dogs, cats or any other creature going to the library to figure out “how to be a parent” but overall they seem to do a pretty good job. :)

  • Frimmel

    “Female non responsibility is the embedded bias in those evaluating any MHRM discussion on male reproductive rights, and it is the limiting factor for progress in this area. Structuring better arguments in support of male reproductive rights is therefore irrelevant, because the limiting factor is a culture which does not value or even expect female responsibility.

    For those new to the MHRM, we value female responsibility very highly. We believe it is only natural to expect equal responsibility and accountability from men and women. We expect men and women to take responsibility for their choices. We expect them to take responsibility for their safety (no, we don’t blame victims), and we expect them to take responsibility for their actions, criminal or otherwise. We view women as human beings possessed of all the same cognitive faculties of higher reasoning as men, and we thus see no reason to hold them to a lower standard of responsibility.”

    I suggest that is the barrier to every discussion we try to have with feminists. Good stuff. Thank You.

    • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

      On the issue of Male Reproductive Rights instead of demanding that women be held responsible by fighting to uphold the rights of men to their children the MHRM is demanding – just like the feminists did for women – for the right to be irresponsible in regards to the children men procreate through unprotected sex.

      This attitude is UNACCEPTABLE and reason enough for the general public to reject the MHRM…

  • Bewildered

    ” then they are also sincerely ensuring their extinction from the gene pool! lol :)

    They should be actively encouraged.
    It would be good riddance to bad rubbish.
    We need to protect posterity from these scum.

  • knightrunner

    Game. Set. Match.
    Gordon, you have just made the one most perfect argument I have ever heard on this subject. This article should be at the top of the list as one of the greats. I can’t praise it enough.
    A most excellent job.

    • Gordon Wadsworth

      Thanks, man. Glad you enjoyed reading it.

  • Carlos

    Another home run Wadsworth!

    This article does a fine job of elucidating the disconnect that prevents so many from understanding the double standard vis a vis male reproductive rights.

    I do feel that any article on this topic is a somewhat remiss if it fails to account for the disparity in parental rights between men and women and the draconian set of laws, policies and practices that exist to collect “child support” and the corresponding total lack of enforcement for “visitation” (a telling euphemism for “parenting time” itself.)

    Of course, rhetorically speaking, most opponents of the MHRM will simply point to the single working mother who actually was abandoned by a philandering husband and say, “How dare you say women are not taking responsibility!?” …but then expecting intellectual honesty, integrity or consistency from opponents of the MHRM is a fool’s errand.

    “A womanizing man was looked upon very dimly”

    …but, but, I was just talking to a feminist today and she told men that promiscuous men are held in high regard!?

  • MGTOW-man

    Thank you Gordon Wadsworth for your clear understanding of this topic and taking your time to share it—hopefully with men and women on the fringes who just might take your logical article to heart and do something about the pending disaster for men and boys—before it is too late.

    Your writing reeks of truth that is well thought-out and categorized…making it ready to be understood clearly. It is really good reading, stuff that makes the feminists squirm… and will hopefully motivate undecided men and women to take necessary action to educate and become activists in the ongoing fight for men and boys’ human rights.

    You really put things in perspective. Now if we can get the masses out there to embrace it.

    I propose that we take the best writers on this site and beyond—those with the persuasive, realistic ability to motivate undecided men and women, to collaborate on writing a new book on the misunderstood history of males, how feminism misinterprets it—often with malicious intent—and how smart men and women will react to change course and help shape changes that are sure to come for all.

    To those who think more books will not do any good… we must keep trying to educate and empower men and boys. No stone should be left unturned.

    If we are to find out we failed, it is better to learn on the other side of having tried—in every way we can!

    A super-explanatory book with all the cornerstone, must-read-article content compiled here on this site, would make for a darned good one. The world can resist only for so long. We should never stop hurling the truth. A new, earth-shattering, ground-breaking, game-changing, book would do a lot of real good right now.

    How about it?!!! Ready to turn these pages into a book—one that will spare no truth and allow no defeat?

  • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=723002896 napocapo69

    Breaking News
    Men sabotage women birth control! Didn’t you know?
    Read on…
    http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/05/when-men-sabotage-birth-control.html

    • Flo

      Those pesky men

  • I am woman

    I am a reproductively responsible female, you men have to get some balls! You are the other part of the equation! Plain and Simple! Fight for those rights, fight for the right of the life of your unborn child..or stop knocking up unresponsible females.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Fighting for men’s reproductive rights never occurred to anyone around here. Thank god you showed up to give us instructions.

      • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

        I get what you are saying , really. But I took her comment as trying to motivate men to fight back harder. Like me, when I address men , trying to get them to DO something to help their own sex, I may write here, but I am speaking to all the other men out there who DO read our comments, but who don’t have the balls to stand up to women. I think this is an important part of our movement… That is, if we really want to win this thing. Without average men on board, our efforts are not nearly as effective. I appreciate the kick in the butt she was delivering to all the weak apathetic men who are giving away the farm.

    • Turbo

      Thanks Einstein, you are a genius.

    • Dennis Markham

      I suspect you don’t have any balls because you sound like someone who’s never tried to argue with a pro-choicer. They’re spoiled, self-centered princesses who think the world is their castle, generally speaking. You can’t appeal to reason or compassion with them. You can only give them a taste of their own medicine.

    • Daniel Kulkarni

      How does one know if a female is responsible in an aspect such as this, aside from the obvious (knocking her up and finding out firsthand)?

  • http://melodybrooke.com Melody Brooke

    When we talk about “reproductive rights” we are really talking, as you state, about personal responsibility. If you REALLY don’t want a child, then it’s your responsibility to make sure it doesn’t happen. And men, you actually have more control over that than women! Yes, it’s true. You can choose to 1) not have sex with someone you can’t trust 2) wear a condom 3) get a vasectomy.

    Women don’t always have full control over when they get pregnant either. 1) rape 2) birth control failure (it reduces the odds, but doesn’t eliminate them).

    I agree that women have impunity in MANY areas and act socially and personally irresponsibly. As a society, this MUST change. One way to improve the situation is for each man to take ownership of their own reproductivity.

    • externalangst

      “each man to take ownership of their own reproductivity”

      This would include similar options of birth control for men that women enjoy – the male pill – so they cannot be unwanted fathers and subsequently financially and emotionally raped.

      Also, artificial wombs – so they can control their reproduction without having to relying on a woman. Just as women today can choose to reproduce without the involvement of a man.

      May I also suggest that if either a woman or a man want to reproduce, they should be individually financially responsible for that child.

      The future does hold promise Melody.

    • Turbo

      “If you REALLY don’t want a child, then it’s your responsibility to make sure it doesn’t happen. “And men, you actually have more control over that than women! Yes, it’s true””

      No Melody, that is completely wrong.

      Let us examine what birth control options men and women have.

      Men have the following

      A. Not have sex with women — 100 % effective

      B. Use a condom — As low as 85 % effective

      C. Have a Vasectomy — 99.9 % effective, permanently sterile for life.

      D. Rely on a woman’s word being on contraception — 0% effective, there is no visible evidence, can be lied to.

      Women have the following

      A. Not have sex with men — 100 % effective

      B. Use Birth control Pills — 99.9 % effective

      C. Contraceptive implants and injections — 99.9 % effective

      D. Morning after pill — 99.9 % effective

      E. Have tubes tied — 99.9 % effective, permanently sterile for life.

      F. Various Intrauterine devices and systems, Diaphragms and caps, Vaginal rings — effectiveness varies ( didn’t have time to look it up )

      G. Insist that a man uses a condom — as effective as a condom can be because there is visible evidence, cannot be lied to.

      So in reality, apart from ignoring each other or becoming sterile for life, women have plenty of birth control options that are virtually 100% foolproof.

      In the absence of a male contraceptive pill, men have none.

  • crydiego

    In reply to Melody Brooke

    So, men are ultimately responsible for all births and abortions because they had the choices you mentioned but ignored them. I see what you mean about women having impunity.
    Gosh Melody, stick around for awhile, I’m sure you’ve got more like this rattling around up there and you need to get it out.

  • Gordon Wadsworth

    God help me, how can someone be a marriage counselor before whom comprehension can only throw down its weapons and surrender?

    The only way for women to become more personally responsible is for men to “take ownership” and become more responsible? Did I read that correctly? Are men not currently taking ownership of their own “reproductivity?” Women’s birth control can fail but a condom can’t? Men, but not women, should be held to such an extreme of “trust” as a prerequisite for casual sex? You think women are held to any standard of responsibility in the current paradigm of reproductive rights?

    Next time you appear on “women’s radio” make sure to announce that our society can do away with abortion because “if you REALLY don’t want a child, then it’s your responsibility to make sure it doesn’t happen.”

    If anything I went overboard in my description of female non responsibility, and you still don’t appear to understand you’re holding women to a lesser standard of responsibility.

    It absolutely blows my mind.

    • Turbo

      Holy shit Gordon, I wondered what you were talking about, so I clicked her name and went to her website. I must remember to do that more often in future.

      Hey Melody, you picked the wrong website to try to drum up business.

      Your comment was a blatant lie, piss off.

    • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

      And yet your solution is to hold men to an even lower standard of responsibility in regards to the consequences of their willful choices and actions by allowing men to void their responsibility to the children they procreate only to claim that they never wanted to be a father in the first place. The only just and fair way to hold women responsible for their actions is for our society to enforce the rights of men to the children they willingly procreate, which would mean placing the child in the custody of the father who has the financial resources to care for the child, as opposed to leaving the child in the custody of their mother who does not have those financial resources yet refuses to marry the father.

      • Dennis Markham

        Even lower standard of responsibility? The man’s “responsibility” is to pay for a woman’s unilateral decision not to have an abortion, ie a decision that’s not his. THAT is a much higher standard of responsibility (higher than should exist in a free a society) than women have, which is to not even be responsible for a choice that truly WAS hers (the choice to have sex).

        • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

          You cannot have your cake and eat to too – if one does not wish to become a father then don’t make the choice to become one by engaging in sex with a partner you don’t want to be tied too by an unwanted child.

          • Dennis Markham

            You cannot have your cake and eat it too, unless you are a woman, you mean. Women have abortions and adoptions.

          • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

            Yes women have the right to MURDER their unborn child through the means of abortion used as birth control – a despicable act perpetuated by a self centered and sociopathic woman.

            MHRA’s claim to be better than that yet demand the right to void their responsibility to the children they procreate through the means of a paper abortion – the despicable act of a self centered and sociopathic male who believes he is entitled to sow his seed far and wide without suffering the consequences of his own actions and poor choices.

            Making MHRA’s no better or more moral then the feminists they oppose: yet equality as intellectually dishonest.

          • Dennis Markham

            If you hate abortion then make the pro-choicers pay for their arrogant dismissal of father’s/children’s rights until they cry “Uncle!” by consummating that with a dismissal of male responsibility.

          • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

            Dennis demanding the right to act like a spoiled brat with an entitlement chip on their shoulder is not the mark of an well adjusted adult. On the other hand it is the act of an individual or group who wish to enforce their own sociopathic agenda upon others by force of law.

            As I’ve said before the only moral solution in regards to male reproductive rights is for MHRA’s to insist that our society and legal system hold women responsible for both their poor choices and actions: by upholding the rights of men to their children. Who would not have been procreated – I might add – if the non-wanabe biological father’s had restrained their sexual impulses in the first place.

          • Dennis Markham

            David, we’re not talking about personal behavior, we’re talking about the law. Stop this self-righteous bullshit. Why would any responsible man even pay child support in the first place? A responsible man would be a REAL father, and if the mother wouldn’t allow that he would not appease her with cash. Child support removes a man’s bargaining power in the family equation and turns him into a slave.

            I would, without question, step up in the case of an accidental pregnancy (accidental by BOTH parties, I should qualify). But this isn’t about me, this is about what works and what doesn’t work in society as a whole.

            Besides, if I don’t pay child support the only difference is whether the child lives 20X better than the average Sri Lankan, or 40X better than the average Sri Lankan. Not whether the child lives or dies. Stop comparing this to murder. Do you call women who put their kids up for adoption sociopathic?

          • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

            If the average person were honorable and not prone to indulging their sociopathic tenancies our society would have no need for the LAW! Unfortunately that is not the case which makes the law necessary in order to visit the “CONSEQUENCES” upon the heads of those dishonorable individuals who believe they have the right to impose their sociopathic behavior onto others and society at large.

            Indeed the groups of men who will reap the most benefit from “Paper Abortions” are the pump and dumpers, PUA’s, Gamers and Player’s. Then again perhaps that is the real point and end goal of the MHRM.

          • Susie Parker

            No it isn’t.

            No man has ever LEGALLY taunted a woman with “I killed your baby”.

            No man has EVER showed up years after the fact saying “I had your kid in High School and you never knew”.

            ……or you owe me tens of thousands of dollars ‘cuz I changed my mind and want money now.

            No man has EVER told a woman “That baby isn’t yours”.

            No man has ever filed for back child support against a women wrongly imprisoned for 17 years.

            No woman should have the legal sanction to do that to any man. It’s as simple as that.

            My kids won’t even associate with kids who don’t come from intact parent homes – they’re just too screwed up, damaged, or tainted.

            It’s a shame, it’s not the kid’s fault – but they’re too screwed up. Raising a child that way is immoral. Child support kids are getting to be multi generational, and it shows.

          • Dennis Markham

            “Indeed the groups of men who will reap the most benefit from “Paper Abortions” are the pump and dumpers, PUA’s, Gamers and Player’s.”

            Ummm, no. Women will be less likely to sleep with dodgy characters when we have “paper abortions.” History shows as much.

            Although they might benefit from women using their birth control more when they do sleep with aforementioned dodgy characters.

          • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

            Making the MHRM no better then Feminism and at this time not worth supporting!

          • Susie Parker

            So we have even MORE hated, neglected and unwanted children in the world.

            Great solution.

          • Sagamanus

            I assume you believe that abortion as a national waste just cutting into GDP? And that if we could only get rid of it the economy would be saved?

      • Susie Parker

        What about men paying for children that aren’t even theirs, David M. Green?

        I taught my daughter the same thing as you claim to have taught your sons. If SHE becomes pregnant because she chose not to listen to me, guess what David M. Green?

        She has CHOICES.

        She can OPT out.

        She ISN’T tethered to a man she never wants to see again, a man who lied and said he was using birth control when he wasn’t or “no obligation…until it’s GOTCHA TIME.

        She can finish college, start her own business, find love and happiness without the guy she made a mistake with haunting her life, using an innocent child in the process.

        It’s about the child, David M. Green. It’s about not bringing an innocent child into the world that’s unwanted and not used as some pawn in a sick person’s gaming moves.

        No mentally healthy woman would use an innocent child that way, David M. Green. An INNOCENT child.

        Do you not understand that?

        • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

          Paternity Fraud is a legitimate issue and a far better issue for the MHRM to focus on finding a solution too. While demanding the right to mimic sociopathc females irresponsible behavior towards their sexual partners and children; by fighting for the right to be legally and financially immune to the consequences of indiscriminately spreading their seed far and wide. Actually in both the short and the long run destroys the credibility of the MHRM while at the same time fully exposes their own moral blindness and moral turpitude.

          • Susie Parker

            I think “What’s best for the child” is the most legitimate issue here, especially considering almost half of all children born are unwanted by at least one if not both parents.

            Using an innocent child to entrap a man or get a free ride does not count as being a “wanted” child, btw.

            Continuing to force men to pay for a women’s “choice” while not allowing him choice is obviously not working. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it’s ruining children’s lives. Is that your intention?

            When a woman does not want a child, she aborts, adopts it off, drops it off at a “safe location” or simply throws it in a dumpster and claims post partum.

            If the fathers of these children were allowed to take the child and get a child support judgement leveled against her, it would probably make “forgetting to take my pill” a thing of the past.

            If men could trick or entrap women into an unwanted pregnancy, then force them into child support + medical + college, while strangling them from any future hope of having a family with someone they love, it would probably shut down the Unwanted Children racket in a heart beat.

            But that is’t going to happen, now, is it?

            Maybe giving men the right to refuse will have the same effect – no more unwanted children running wild in the streets. No more rogue latch key children watching a succession of Mommy’s boyfriends coming and going in and out of their lives while she teaches them to hate half of their own genes.

            Maybe instead of forcing men or women into having unwanted children to burden society with, we should just level the playing field and give everyone “choice”.

            There is NO excuse for bringing an unwanted child into this world. None whatsoever. Qualified MEN should be first in line for adoption consideration, since they can’t just go out and get pregnant by any old stranger.

            If you are going to have a child, you’d better be 1000% on board with the responsibility it takes.

          • Dennis Markham

            Beautifully said, Susie. I hope you take you this message into enemy territory.

  • Reality check

    Hi there, Gentlemen.

    I find it absolutely disgusting how incredibly self-righteous (some/most) women in our society are and their reprehensible behavior regarding having sex and placing “blame” on the man if a pregnancy happens. My boyfriend and I broke up for a few months last year; he rebounded with a girl that now is the mother of a child she claims to be his. He dated her for less than 3 months and now is bound to her for 18 years, financially speaking. His whole family turned their backs on him because he didn’t come running to save her from this “horrible experience he put her in.” Why should he have to be tethered to this woman who may have had this plan in the first place. She already had one child and receives child support, she even named the new baby by the name of her previous boyfriend. Everyone looks at her like a victim and treat him like scum. I wonder if her motivations were for a payday from the beginning. He has only seen the baby once and he would be involved with the baby more, but she and his family won’t allow him to have me around, because she is too jealous and childish to accept that she was a rebound. We live together and he thinks of himself as my children’s father, so we’d love to welcome this child into our family, but the baby’s mother refuses. We’re looking for suggestions and we’ve considered court, however most courts are skewed in favor of the mother. I’d like to think our society could actually evolve to the point that each person is treated equally, but I doubt that will be this century.

    • Susie Parker

      This happened to my son as well, only the “rebound” was a one night stand with a cocktail waitress. He DID offer to try to have a relationship with her, he knows a broken home is bad for children. She replied that A BROKEN HOME WAS BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME. Her mother and sister both are single mother child support queens, and lo and behold, she is carrying on the family tradition.

      I too, only saw the child once. Out of the blue she offered to let him spend the weekend with us when the child was 10 months old. The following Monday he was served with court papers for child support (after refusing to allow him to put her on his insurance or help pay, she NOW changed her mind and wants arrears ’cause it’s…HARD being a single mom!)

      She wrote a letter to the Judge saying the child was neglected in our care, his diaper not changed causing severe diaper rash, he was unbathed, his nose not wiped and I had slept in the same bed with him.

      All in one over night.

      The Judge didn’t even question how she witnessed all this without being there, it was just accepted as truth.

      As a Grandmother, I have to wonder why I have no more rights than my son has, but HER mother does. Are mothers of sons NOT nurturing either? Are mothers of son incompetent boobs that can’t be trusted around children also?

      How did I suddenly turn into a man?

      • http://akseiya.deviantart.com Michał Lech

        You defended a man, so you became infected. No, no, Orwell wasn’t really quite so right, no….

  • Patrick DiSandro

    A beautifully written article.

    The issue (not the article) sums up like this:
    I happen to be pro life (or rather, anti-choice as I put it). Whether you are pro life or pro choice matters not, the fact remains that it is legally allowed for women to get an abortion. It’s their body, they have to carry the kid, they have to deal with any side effects that may entail, so they get to choose. That is what the law has decided.
    Just how a major issue of female rights boils down to the contradicting viewpoints of “We don’t want to be seen as nothing more than sex objects” and “we don’t want to be shamed for wanting to be viewed as sex objects”, Men’s rights takes a similar stance on reproductive rights. “We don’t want to be forced to financially support children we didn’t’ want in the first place” and “we want to be able to have equal custody in our children”. Add in a similar issue of “a woman just aborted a child that was mine and I wanted to have without my say so.”
    I say these are contradicting points (on both sides) but both sides are valid. Women shouldn’t just be expected to be nothing more than sex toys, but if they chose to live a sexual life they shouldn’t be shamed for such. If a man and a woman make a child, the man should have a say in it’s life and wellness.

    It gets legally tricky here, but I think with a leap of faith we can conclude that:
    Women are the ones to carry the kid, they get the final say on if it will be born or not.
    Since women have the final say, they also have the final responsibility. If they cannot financially support a child, then they may have extra consideration to make before going forth with the birth.

    The alternative would be this:
    Men and women have an equal say in a childbirth. If one wants the child and the other doesn’t that one will have to assume full ownership and financial responsibility.
    So if one does not want it, and the other insists, the one who did not want it has no responsibility since they had no say in the matter.

    I’ll stress again, I consider myself ‘anti-choice’. I can see the grey issues, but I think the potential life should not have the choice of it’s existence made for it. I think the life is a responsibility that both sides should bear. But legally, I have been overruled. As such, if the option is there to terminate a pregnancy then the choice bears responsibility.

  • Pvblivs

    “Neither side feels heard after the debate because neither side spoke to the other’s values.”

    There is some merit to this statement. Unfortunately, you go on to say to any critics “you just believe in female non-responsibility.”

    I have seen this site for a good while. And I know that many of its members advocate for “legal paternal surrender.” If I believed that abortion should be a right, I would also agree with “legal paternal surrender.” I do believe that men’s and women’s rights and responsibilities should be equal. I believe that neither should be given the option of abandoning (or killing) the child. That is not advocating in favor of female non-responsibility.

    Now, I’m sure there are people who do advocate for female non-responsibility. But when you assign that motive to someone who doesn’t hold it, you give off the impression that your argument is going to be dishonest. Assigning a motive like that is a terrible strategy. It’s like the christian saying “you just love your sin” or a feminist saying “you just hate women.” You just put up a wall.

    • Junky

      you didnt address adoption or safe drip sites both are non violent options for the woman to relinquish responsibility for they child after she gives birth and are both already legal

      while having these after birth options you cannot hold men to the much higher standard of responsible at conception(this argument was defeated in roe vs wade)

  • Dennis Markham

    Go to Slate and see how these spoiled little princess bitches talk about male reproductive rights:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prudence/2014/07/dear_prudence_i_hid_my_abortion_from_my_boyfriend.html?wpisrc=obnetwork

    One commenter brings up the issue and literally the only response he gets is “*rolls eyes*” (which gets 12 upvotes) and “You could have said ‘no’ to sex.” (which gets 8 thumbs up)

    Lizard brained cunts. And we’re supposed to believe feminism cares about men.

    • MrImmoli

      “You could have said ‘no’ to sex.”

      That same thing could be used as an argument against abortion and those same people would go on about how that’s a horribly misogynistic thing to say.

      It also ignores all the men who are raped and then forced to pay child support to their rapists.

      • Dennis Markham

        You forget, though.

        Men have sex, women are the victims of sex.

        That’s why men are supposed to keep in their pants for their entire lives if they don’t want to be fathers, while women can’t even keep it in their pants long enough to save up 30 bucks for a bottle of pills. That’s why when a man is cheated on, he blames the other man only.

  • Chris

    If the issue is pressed until society agrees to changes, like everything else things will not turn out as intended. Feminists want to abolish fatherhood altogether, have the few male children they allow for to be raised with absolutely no male role models or contact, fully supported by the cradle to grave by the state. This is what they will get from the government in response to the males demanding for female reproductive responsibility. No more alimony, just way higher taxes so they can stay at home for 18 years, more messed up children who don’t even know what a man looks like. Law of unintended consequences.

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    I still say change men, change the world. Deterministic processes steering female behavior coupled with men’s unintentional abbetting feminism has reinforced the gynocentric world. Most women won’t/can’t change from this norm. Thus, it is men that will salvage what remains. We must find ways to influence men to stick up for their own sex; women sure as hell aren’t going to do it for them. Love women but do not forsake ourselves.

  • Dennis Markham

    My body, my choice.

    Your body, your responsibility.

    If you don’t care the child is half mine in the case of abortion, you don’t get to care in the case of child support.

  • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

    Our society has rightly imposed “CONSEQUENCES” on those self centered sociopathic males who wish to indiscriminately sow their seed far and wide. If one does not wish to suffer those consequences then logically speaking one should avoid the behavior and actions that lead to those consequences. That is what I taught my own son when he came of age and is a lesson that many MHRA’s have failed to learn to their utter shame and regret.

    • Dennis Markham

      The birth of a child isn’t the consequences of pregnancy, it’s the consequences of her choice not have an abortion. My body, my choice, remember?

      Besides, there were 6X fewer kids living without fathers before we put the teeth behind child support so cram your self-righteousness up your ass.

  • jg
  • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

    Our society has rightly imposed “CONSEQUENCES” on those self centered
    sociopathic males who wish to indiscriminately sow their seed far and
    wide. If one does not wish to suffer those consequences then logically
    speaking one should avoid the behavior and actions that lead to those
    consequences. That is what I taught my own son when he came of age and
    is a lesson that many MHRA’s have failed to learn to their utter shame
    and regret.

    • jg

      “If one does not wish to suffer those consequences then logically speaking one should avoid the behavior and actions that lead to those
      consequences.”

      OR…one could do what women did and get society to repeal any such consequences.

      • http://whatistrulyneeded.wordpress.com/ David M. Green

        The only moral and logical way to hold women responsible for the consequences of their choices and actions in regards to reproduction is to demand that our society uphold the rights of men to the children they procreate whether or not they are married to the woman who bore their child(ren).

        • jg

          OR……demand that our society make abortion illegal, and end safe harbor laws, thereby requiring women to take responsibility for the human life that they created.

    • Dennis Markham

      That’s circular fucking logic. “If you don’t want to deal with consequences, avoid the behavior that causes such consequences.” You are using the existence of the child support to justify child support. You are saying child support laws are just because we know we’ll have to pay child support.

      Again, cram your self-righteousness up your ass. History shows men naturally “deal with consequences” when they are treated like respected parents, not slaves. Before child support got its teeth the number of fatherless children was 1 in 10. Now its 6 in 10.

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    Gordon, this also means that males aren’t “supposed” to win against women since doing so isn’t of service to females. With this too, our work is compounded. Men absorb the responsibility that should be women’s. In fact, given the dynamics between the sexes, males are competing for women using the very things that in turn will make the most damage and yield the most grief for themselves and especially the boys’.

  • PoeTentiate

    LoL! So Child Support is a patriarchal construct?

  • Homine

    The articles in this site are long, so verbose. But anyway..

    Responsibility in relation to biology and pregnancy, belongs entirely to women, not men.
    Contraception, abortion, promiscuity in women, feminism, porn, etc, are the problem of women being irresponsible.

    Why men have to be responsible, for women’s biological reproductive system ?
    Why a man has to be forced to be a father ?
    - Fatherhood is something that should be natural, by choice, not by force.
    - Otherwise we can’t expect society to be sane. Good fathers and good mothers, both responsible.
    - Nature rewards good decisions, by making every creature face the consequences of their decisions.
    - This society rewards women’s bad decisions, and punishes men instead
    Sex and pregnancy are linked together in women’s sexuality, not in men.

    The responsibility is only hers, if women do not see this, they will never be responsible

    How different would be if women were conscious about sex and its consequences instead of demanding equal rights based on men not having a womb, hence not having an inherited responsibility.
    - Women then, would plan their lives and future maternity
    - Would be more conscious about who they get attracted to, more lucid, more realistic

    | Contraception and abortion for women, are two of the biggest mistakes in human reproduction.

    All this women-be-like-men, serves ideological interests. Ultimately destroys women.