big fish

Reasonable Doubt

Every time a rape is reported a crime has been committed. The crime was either a rape or a false report and police need to determine which one. These crimes don’t sound of equal weight but they are, and here’s why.

Rape can affect the sexual life of a victim for the rest of their lives. A false accusation can affect the sexual life of a victim for the rest of their lives. Rape can cause an innocent person to feel like they are living in a virtual prison. A false allegation can cause an innocent person to live in a literal prison. Rape can cause extreme physical damage or be part of a murder. A false accusation can result in death. Rape can result in post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). A false accusation can result in PTSD.

The reason we are asked to listen with compassion to anecdotal evidence of a rape and not anecdotal evidence of false rape accusations is the premise that a woman’s life is more important than a man’s. There is no way around that fact. We are asked to suspend the human, civil right to be presumed innocent because somewhere some woman might be hurt and that chance outweighs the equal hurt that might be done to a man by the accusation. The discussion is cut off by claims that false rape accusations are extremely rare but the reality is that no acceptable empirical studies have ever been done.

The 2% myth and the extended 6-8% mythical allowance are based on guesses. The only attempts at studying the reports with any sort of methodology have resulted in 40-60% false reports. It’s astounding that feminists haven’t conducted proper empirical studies to contradict the best evidence we have. You’d think they’d want proof and they seem so damn sure of themselves so it’s rather telling that they resist making it a fact.

A false accusation of rape is one of the few crimes against which the victim is offered no protection by our current society. In fact, feminists who have lobbied for anonymity of accusers have no interest in providing anonymity for the accused. By insisting that all rape accusations be automatically believed feminists also show they have little regard for presumption of innocence or reasonable doubt which pits feminists against the very foundation of our legal system.

Presumption of innocence is a legal protection offered to all people, and men are people too, which is based on the idea “that most people are not criminals” and “requires that the trier of fact, be it a juror or judge, begin with the presumption that the state is unable to support its assertion.” There is no clause in the constitution that states “unless you are charged with rape.”

Freethought Blogs recently entertained an anecdote that appeals to us to disregard the chances of false rape allegations even though we know they happen and even though we know the rate of false reports is undetermined. This was offered to them as a comment on another member’s blog and it so impressed a member that she featured it with admonishment that 6-8% false report statistics are wrong. I agree they are wrong, but I’m prone to move the number in the higher direction while this person appeals to consider it lower.

Let us have a look at the story.

EEB is the witness. She says that she was raped but forced to say she made a false accusation, arguing that although she was raped the false accusation stat is elevated by cases like hers. In her story she tells us that police dismissed her because she has a mental illness and “I ‘claimed’ I had been sexually assaulted in the past.” EEB does not claim that the other accusations were true only that this particular story is true. By omission, we can assume the others claims were not true and that she is a false accuser in the past so still a legitimate part of whatever stats may exist “when they wrote their reports.” (There are, as yet, no official reports… but we’re working on that.)

She doesn’t want to tell us what “very flimsy ‘evidence’” they had that she was lying for the reason of not “go[ing] into it because it’s both complicated and ridiculous” but feels like the rest of the story deserves detail. She tells us that the police officer accusing her of lying has a personal history with bipolar women that tainted him against her but she doesn’t think we should be concerned with people’s personal histories, like hers. She tells us that a public awareness campaign was launched after her attack was reported and that they spent months questioning her but also asserts that they never believed her claim or took her seriously.

Here is her claim:
EEB was assaulted by a stranger while walking home. She was left “dripping blood,” torn from vagina to anus and having burns on her labia, and somehow made it home to call the police instead of an ambulance. Her father is apparently a cop so she might have had that number on faster than 911 speed dial.

She recounts that instead of sending an ambulance they sent “detectives.” These detectives told her that the hospital “wasn’t ready” for her and, instead, made her answer questions about her rape and what medication she takes. Though she was in shock and “not thinking much” she had the presence of mind to ask for a female “detective” which they denied her, and then asked for a “rape counselor[sic]” when they finally took her to the hospital. The inflatable hospital that just finished getting ready for her only had one black light to look for evidence and it was broken. They also refused to give her any emergency birth control.

My first suggestion to EEB is that she move out of Twin Peaks.

This is truly a monster rapist on the loose. A perineal tear of the third degree usually only happens in childbirth. It should be easy to find a rapist with a cock the girth of a baby’s head and who likely has singe marks on his trousers indicating a penis so hot it can burn labia. Of the copious details given, EEB leaves out the part where she got stitches. You’d think she’d want us to know how many it took. When she was being driven home, the same night, it was by the same “detective” who drove her there. So they released her within the time frame of a work shift.

While claiming that, outside of police, she only told two friends and her family, she states that when the bully cop called the papers because “the community needs to know there was no threat to public safety” it was a form of “public humiliation”. She tells us the police made her re-enact her rape with the bully cop playing the part of the rapist and then the bully cop made her give him a hug after she admitted she made it all up. Her rape counsellor, kept outside of the interrogation room, appeared to be angry with her but, as fate would have it, she ran into said counsellor two years later only to find out that the woman was mad at the cops instead. We all love happy endings.

This counsellor is credited with previously having “kicked major ass. And really helped me through the process; I don’t know what I would have done without her.” Ass kicking just ain’t what it used to be.

EEB says the police questioned her more about her mental illness than about the rape while complaining that “they made me go through what happened” and that she “described the rape more times than I can count,” and “even got on the ground and acted out the rape for them”.

I agree with EEB. I think this case is “both complicated and ridiculous.” The reason that she told this bizarre story is because she wants us to know that false rape statistics are not accurate. Again, I agree with her. EEB would like her anecdote to convince you not to question rape accusations or to consider how many of them may be false but I think she’s accomplished the opposite. I think we need to come up with better tools of analysis and, meanwhile, keep a close eye on all men who have a cock with the circumference of a pineapple.

Anecdotes are the life blood of feminism. They usually contain words and phrases like “shock,” “it never crossed my mind,” “excruciating,” “invasive,” “terrible pain,” “submitted,” “horrific,” “I almost died,” “accusations,” “living hell,” “angry men,” “panic attack,” “humiliation,” “terrorizing,” “he made me,” “over and over and over.” And “I’m not the only one.”

Well, yes, you are.

Surely nobody else knows what it’s like to be EEB. We don’t know why she does the things she does, we don’t know what special false rape accuser support group she goes to in which so many of her friends share the same fate. I’ve never heard of such a group. I’d like to read their minutes. I’d also like to thank EEB for sharing what must have been an extremely emotional story to write. It has given us many reasons to demand a proper method of investigation into all accusations. Something thorough, public, well documented, fair, and respectful of all parties involved.

The law is there for everyone’s protection. It states if there is a reasonable doubt we must not convict.

  • AVFM seeks app writer volunteer

    Are you an MHRA? Can you write apps for iPhone and Android? Are you willing to do that for AVFM on a special project? Please contact us.

    A Voice for Men seeks a volunteer with solid app writing experience to help us develop an app that will be linked to the AVFM brand. If you have the qualifications and are serious about following through, we would love to hear from you. Your efforts could be of great assistance to this website and to our cause. Please contact Paul Elam at paul@avoiceformen.com for more details...

  • Wikimasters, Editors, Translators, and Writers Wanted *Apply Now*

    Fight Wikipedia censorship! Add to and improve the AVfM Reference Wiki. Volunteers needed for writing, proofreading, and organizing. Some knowledge of the German language will be helpful but *not* required.

    Please create an account and then follow instructions here

  • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

    Let’s accept at face value that this linked story is true (I may find myself wondering where these false-rape statistics are being kept by the government, since I’m unaware of any, and I’m also wondering why a multimillion $$ lawsuit hasn’t been filed given the claimed physical damage and how much of this violates standard police procedure anywhere I know of in the US, but hey, OK, let’s just accept it happened anyway): would it in any way change the fact that false rape accusations are often as horrific, maybe even more horrific, than many rapes? Would it not make it all the more important to call strongly for rigorous statistics analyzing what the actual rate was? Furthermore, would it invalidate the crying need to study in greater detail the taboo subject of female sex predators, female-on-male sexual assault, a subject that continues to scream for attention and continues to be ignored?

    Here’s a book, and interview, I would send to Stephanie Zvan and the FreeThought Blogger crowd, if I thought there was a chance in hell they wouldn’t insta-ban me and castigate me for even bringing any of this up:

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/revelations-when-women-sexually-abuse-men-2/

  • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

    I don’t know if EEB was ever raped, but I can say with a measure of certainty that she HAS been assaulted with a few Bricks of Logic. Quite recently in fact.

    “Twin Peaks.” I laughed out loud.

  • OldGeezer

    In any society where an imperial throne claims absolute unilateral authorities for kidnapping, imprisonment, torture and death long since revoked for most monarchs, principles such as the presumption of innocence are moot in any case.

    Feminism has merely taken advantage of the new legal principles whereby the more heinous the alleged crime the less rigorous the standard of proof. And we all know that rape has now been designated as far worse than the taking of human life (a.k.a. murder) that used to be highest on the list.

    False accusations against men and boys, on the other hand, are so much lower on that list that they require proof beyond any doubt whatsoever, and even then may be subject to jury nullification.

    • Codebuster

      >”… the more heinous the alleged crime the less rigorous the standard of proof.”

      Of course, and that is how it should be… you don’t want the poor thing to relive her horrific ordeal over and over and over again, do you?

      And the less heinous the crime, like stealing a loaf of bread or falsely accusing some male of rape, the less excuse is there for the cops to harass her with pointless questions, over and over and over again.

      It’s a win-win all ’round. Can’t lose. It’s only fair, to make up for all those millennia of oppression by The Patriarchy.

    • JinnBottle

      “…rape has now been designated as far worse than the taking of human life (a.k.a. murder) that used to be highest on the list.”

      So a back alley rapist might as well kill his victim, right? I mean from his POV he has everything to gain – no living witness, and 7-10 years with possibility of parole is better than 35 without, ya? – and nothing to lose.

      This is where the “compassionate” Left, with their insistence on Hate Crime laws, which carry harsher punishment than generic, plain vanilla but exactly similar crimes, show where they’re really at regarding crime and punishment.

  • Robert St. Estephe

    This is a canonical statement:

    “Every time a rape is reported a crime has been committed. The crime was either a rape or a false report and police need to determine which one. These crimes don’t sound of equal weight but they are.”

    Bingo. 100%. The truth.

    I read the following as a rhetorical statement, not a literal one: “It’s astounding that feminists haven’t conducted proper empirical studies to contradict the best evidence we have.” Everybody, with few exceptions, feminists and non-feminists alike, can understand why feminists have not done so. They know very well — the same as we do — that the results of a large-scale properly scientific study using sound method would inevitably destroy their fraud.

    Feminism isn’t about equality. Feminism is about fraud.

    • http://yourthoughttank.blogspot.com/2013_09_01_archive.html sfp289

      Damn right it is.

    • yinyangbalance

      YES

  • FrayedLace

    I don´t believe a word of it. I believe that it is a fictional story told for the purpose of doing what feminists have always done–deny and diminish the very real, and common, problem of false accusations.

    • Kimski

      I tend to agree, given the fact that her dad allegedly is a cop, and would have set heaven and hell into motion in a case like this. Same thing goes for his co-workers, ’cause cops usually perceive an attack on one of them, or their family members, as an attack on them all.
      -And they’re not exactly friendly when that happens.

      This story just reminds me of Swiss cheese.
      Must be the holes…

      • Nostradormouse

        I love the smell of Emmental in the morning…

        • Nostradormouse

          Emmentalagram for Mr. Esme. Emmentalagram for Mr. Esme.

  • Robert St. Estephe

    And for die-hard fans of rape whoppers, here’s and oldie but a goodie one fer yuh:

    George W Wilson, Falsely Convicted of Rape in Utah – 1898
    http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2013/09/george-w-wilson-falsely-convicted-of.html

  • crydiego

    Diana, you just put a pineapple size hole in their story bucket. What amazes me is that I didn’t see one comment that questioned the story, (although I didn’t read more than fifty). They either don’t let dissenting voices be heard or we are talking about some very gullible readers; Free thought indeed?
    Police were talking to a woman who said she was brutally raped, -she is bleeding, and they don’t get her an ambulance. Inconceivable! And the word means what I think it means.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com August Løvenskiolds

    So, her father was a cop…and she called them first…they arrived first…and treated her poorly? The daughter of a cop – treated poorly?

    It beggars the imagination that, in an organization where the members depend on each other in life-or-death situations, the police wouldn’t be falling over each to help the daughter of one of their fellow officers, had she actually been raped.

    Her father must’ve been the most hated man ever to wear a uniform for her to have been treated like that – or, is there a more likely explanation?

    Even if he was 7000 kilometers away, every kid knows that saying “my dad is on the job” (a policeman) is a golden ticket; EEB’s self-serving story has no ring of credibility to it at all.

    A much better explanation is that EEB’s perineal laceration was either caused by, or suspected to be from, a “surprise” childbirth, and the detectives were acting like they were because they guessed that there was a newborn infant in a dumpster somewhere.

    “not ‘go[ing] into it because it’s both complicated and ridiculous'” indeed.

    As Diana noted, the wound EEB described is emblematic of unassisted childbirth.

    I hope the child was found and placed in a good home.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      The daughter of a cop – treated poorly?

      This.

      No freaking way that happens if she is not obviously lying.

    • Rukumouru

      “My dad’s on the job”

      Son of cop here, reporting that this is indeed true 100% of the time. I can stroll around restricted areas in police stations like they’re my backyard.

  • OneHundredPercentCotton

    This story totally defies any logic, and in skimming the first 60 or so comments – in which each and every person absolutely believes this story – I believe there’s a ripe market for worthless desert property on Free Thought blog.

    Crime History: Masked intruders castrate Wayne DuMond, Arkansas rapist of 17-year-old
    BY SCOTT MCCABE | MARCH 6, 2013 AT 1:30 PM
    TOPICS: LOCAL CRIME CRIME HISTORY
    Photo –
    On this day, March 7, in 1985, two masked men broke into a home and castrated an Arkansas man who was awaiting trial for the rape of a 17- year-old cheerleader and distant cousin of then-Gov. Bill Clinton.

    The intruders were never found, but the case of Wayne DuMond would be used in at least two presidential campaigns.

    DuMond, 35, was castrated while awaiting trial for the 1984 rape of Ashley Stephens. DuMond was found guilty and sentenced to life plus 20 years, and the sheriff displayed DuMond’s severed testicles in jar in his office.

    DuMond’s case resurfaced in the 2008 presidential campaign when opponents criticized candidate Mike Huckabee, who lobbied for DuMond’s parole as governor of Arkansas. Eleven months after DuMond’s release, he raped and killed a Missouri woman.

    • Flying Turtle

      Hi, I don’t get the relevance of the Du Mond case to false rape culture. Maybe there’s a wooshing sound over my head? Wouldn’t be the first time.

      • OneHundredPercentCotton

        I was pointing out how family members of Law Enforcement and other authorities are given special treatment. They are NOT ignored and they are NOT mistreated.

        That door swings both ways. I know of two valid rape cases where the perp freely got away with it because of having LE family members.

        Not to hand out pointers for false rape stories, but if she said her rapist’s father was a cop I would consider this story believeable. Saying HER father was LE? Pfffssssttt! No way!

  • Tofeldian Sage

    Well, since we’re on the subject of false accusations, and the gathering of accurate statistics, here’s a bit of mathematical guidance.

    (and yes, I have been on the receiving end of a false DV allegation)

    When a woman walks into a police station and makes a false accusation, the outcome will not be another statistical point in the ‘false accusation’ column.

    No, it will be recorded as an unsuccessful prosecution. The cops leave it right there, and that’s where the case sits for all time. Not enough evidence to proceed.

    What they don’t do is turn around and go after the accuser.

    In fact, she has to make something like 10 false accusations before the police will even think of going after her.

    Think about what that does to the statistics. It inflates the number of ‘reported rapes’, and it understates the number of ‘false accusations’. Any woman could invent, say, 7 false accusations and have every one of them register in the ‘reported rapes’ category without even one of them being noted as a ‘false accusation’.

    So if you’re wondering why the police genuinely claim to have so few cases of false accusations, well now you know. Its because they have a very high threshold to achieve before they start slinging that term around. And in the meantime their database retains the vast majority of false accusations, mislabeled as ‘insufficient evidence’ cases.

    The implication is that a large number of reported rapes are in fact unrecognized false accusations.

    Why do Feminists think we live in a Rape Culture when the police statistics say we don’t? Inflated report statistics.

    Why do Feminists think the prosecution success rate is too low and represents a problem? Because the prosecution system is in fact successfully weeding out most of the false accusations.

    Its the statistics that are not being recorded properly, and those are used for setting policy for the next generation.

    Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

    • Dasque

      Except that even if the report rate is inflated it still doesn’t even come close to what they claim. Somewhat ironically, college campuses and the laws governing their private security forces are some of the best tools for debunking the persistent myths.

      College age is the most at-risk time of life for a young woman with regard to sexual assault or rape. All the alcohol available at the sketchy frats, sexual liberation – hell, we know that every man there is a potential rapist.

      So if we use the college numbers we should get the high end of the reported crimes.

      The US Cleary Act requires all campus police forces to publish information about crimes that are reported in their purview (these can be reported to them directly or the local LE can report to them as part of an investigation).

      Using my current institution as an example (though use any college you like, the steps are the same), I go to the public safety page (http://oregonstate.edu/dept/security/) and find the link to the most recent cleary act report (the 2012 numbers were just released). VAWA has added a second row this year – not sure if the VAWA Sexual Assault is an overlap with the Forcible Sexual Assault, but let’s assume it isn’t for the sake of inflating the numbers.

      Next we track down the enrollment for the same period. Google is often faster than trawling the school’s website. For OSU in the 2012 calendar year, the average enrollment for women (because men can’t be raped, doncha know) was about 10,150. I included the summer numbers for the sake of seeing what it does to the average (it would be about 11,600 without).

      We have then, 18 incidents of sexual assault in the year 2012, out of a student population of 10,150. Assuming that none of these women were victimized more than once and that women never lie about such things, that gives us a rate of 0.177% of women raped in a particular year (I selected the ugliest numbers as would a feminist making a point).

      To determine the number of victims in a five-year college career, we take the probability of not being victimized in a year and multiply it by itself for each year: 0.99823^5 = 0.99116 or a 99.12% chance of not being sexually assaulted or raped in a given college career. This leaves us with the (dis)comforting probability of being raped during college at 0.88%.

      …Wait, isn’t that supposed to be something approximating 1 in 4?
      That’s one hell of an underreporting epidemic.

      For giggles, what if we extend it to a 75-year lifespan, ignoring lessened chances of being raped at other times in life? 0.99823^75 give us a 12.4% chance of being raped ever. 1-in-8. But we all know the report rate is shit, so it must be at least 100 times that because we know 11 out of 10 women are raped every minute.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

    I have to give Diana a lot of credit. I think the woman is lying and I don’t mind saying so. Certainly, my opinion that she is lying is just that, my opinion. I don’t pretend to have proof or any inside information. I certainly don’t have either. It is just that I read her story and I don’t believe she is telling the truth.

    Even her telling of this for a blog comment, years after it supposedly happened and with plenty of time to be thoughtful, is short on facts where it counts and long on her identity as victim. And all of it is clearly intended to sell the myth of rape culture.

    Where are the cops names? Where is the outrage that leads a person to name names, expose the insensitive police that would not provide her a taxi service to a pharmacy? Surely an open account of what happened, naming the police department and the individuals involved in her ‘mistreatment’ would have garnered enough outrage from the feminist community that they would have swarmed her with support and issued relentless demands that the problem be corrected.

    Surely, if she did not want other to go through this, she would do more than post a comment to a blog known for making false accusations of rape?

    Why not move in that direction instead of doing what she did, which was to use her anecdotal allegation to lead into a sweeping indictment of anyone concerned with false rape allegations?

    Yep, she’s lying. About being raped. And about how she was treated. I think the more likely story, if there is any truth to this at all, is that she made it up and the cops knew she was full of shit from jump. That much at least explains why that cop felt uncomfortable doing anything but taking her straight home.

    And I am betting he felt uncomfortable with that. After all, he was alone with a woman whom he apparently believed was telling lies about being raped.

    I would have called her a cab — warned the driver — and called it a day.

    And that is why I credit Diana. As we all know (and have seen) FTB is an environment where fraudulent allegations are the standard, and the “believe the woman at all cost,” mentality prevails. Diana remains balanced and keeps it in perspective.

    Still, this woman is about as credible as PZ Myers, which is to say she’s not.

    • Diana Davison

      There is a certain point where a rape story can get abducted by aliens.

    • Cam

      I think you are dead right Mr Elam. I do not think she was raped either after reading her story a couple of times. There are so many holes in what she is saying you have to wonder what else the police had on her (obviously quite a bit) that she will not reveal.

      I find it particularly strange that she describes the bodily injuries (the evidence) that she says she incurred but nothing at all about any foreign bodily fluids or even any DNA on her body in the usual places that would indicate contact with another person. I suspect from her story that she inflicted those wounds on herself and then cried rape. But of course that would be a a tall order because we all know young women, even apparently sane ones do not cut themselves or otherwise self mutilate. Oh wait – they do.

      She ultimately told the police she made the whole thing up. I cannot imagine any person, male or female, who was truly damaged and violated by another person the way she said she was would EVER say “they made it up” – unless they did and had been caught out and had no where to go. Like this woman.

      Lets see:

      1. The police did not believe her so it sounds like there was no evidence but her injuries. How odd when she claims there was “so much physical evidence” but never mentions any evidence of any other person being in contact with her body. Strange.

      Strange and weird how she does not say anything at all in her story about her attacker that caused such brutal injuries.

      2. Then she admits:
      “Because I have a mental illness. Because I was hospitalized after attempting suicide. Because I “claimed” I had been sexually assaulted in the past. Because I was crazy, and he was sure I was just looking for attention.”

      OK so she had claimed to have been sexually assaulted previously but does not at any stage mention that this was a true statement. Only her latest rape was true. From her own story it does sound like she had made an entirely false claim of sexual assault previously but now we are supposed to believe she was really raped this second time. Her mental illness and previous self harm(suicide attempt) are not relevant here because people like her do not make false sexual assault allegations and then do it a second time apparently.

      3. The Rape Counselor.

      She claims in her story to have been horribly raped, suffering bad injuries, interrogated by police, take to hospital and examined. Once there she had the presence of mind to “request” a rape counselor. Hmm. In her claimed state that is the last thing I would have thought of doing but not her. She knows the system well apparently.

      4. She said: “At the time, I thought the rape counselor hated me, thought I was a liar like everyone else. She didn’t; she was pissed at the detectives, but I didn’t know that until I ran into her two years later at an event.”

      If this lady thought at the time that the rape counselor thought she was a liar then you would have to have little doubt that the counselor probably did at the time.

      5. “They accused me over and over of making it up. They had very flimsy “evidence” (which I won’t go into because it’s both complicated and ridiculous) but mostly it was their “instinct”.

      It does not fit well with her story so she is not going to tell you what the police evidence was. As well no doubt with the apparent lack of evidence that the injuries were rape inflicted and not some form of serious self mutilation by a person suffering with mental problems who had previously made a false sexual assault allegation.

      6. So after she admitted she made it up ——

      “A very pissed off rape counselor and my very broken looking father were in the hallway just outside.”

      Apparently the father was not upset or pissed off. Just broken looking. If my daughter had truly been raped there is no way, especially if I was a cop, that I would ever allow matters to rest there.
      I am not surprised the father was broken looking having a daughter with mental illness together with a previous false sexual assault allegation and an attempted suicide behind her and god knows what else. It is fascinating how she does not mention in her story if the broken looking father ever really believed her. (Only the counselor apparently and only 2 years later). With that significant omission one can only conclude that he had serious doubts also.

      But ..oh wait – she said..
      “At the time, I thought the rape counselor hated me, thought I was a liar like everyone else. ” Apparently the everyone else must include the father because at no time does she say he even believed her. Hmm. God knows what the poor parents have been through with this lady besides all the past hell she describes.

      The lady has done a good job in her story of attacking the police and describing how firmly they treated her. You only have her word for that. It would be fascinating to hear the entire story from the police files, and from their perspective, which no doubt places this phony rape allegation in an entirely new light.

      I do not believe her story with her own naturally biased description so I can fully understand how dubious the police were. And of course in the end she was caught out and had nowhere to go but to admit she made it up – but then only after she was guaranteed immunity from prosecution and handed a free get out of jail card.

      • Bewildered

        But that’s good enough for FTB ,which supposedly is filled with critical thinkers !

  • http://fathers4fairness.blogspot.ca/ fathers4fairness

    For the record, I happened to run across this account of a false rape against a young Quebecer named Roch Guimont from 2001. It reads like a typical account – and of course he was turfed from the Police Academy he was attending at the time despite the case being thrown out.

    http://www.injusticecanada.ca/eng/articles1.html

  • Zyavol

    In the article, Diana mentions that the accuser is granted anonymity while the accused is not. I would like to comment and red flag this. If one reads the Constitution, they will immediately recognize that anonymity of accusers is actually UNCONSTITUTIONAL. It is a violation of due process, in which the accused is denied the 6th Amendment, specifically the right to confront the accuser. Why hasn’t the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional?! It’s so obvious to me and I didn’t even go to law school, just a review of the Constitution as an American citizen.

  • http://gynocentrism.com/2013/07/14/about/ Peter Wright (Tawil)

    With each week A Voice for Men is increasingly wresting control of the public discussion about rape from those who promote rape hysteria. Thanks to Diana and the numerous authors on AVfM who have contributed to bringing this about – we are now one of the leading voices in the global discussion of rape.

  • http://gynocentrism.com/2013/07/14/about/ Peter Wright (Tawil)

    Part 1 of 4

  • rayc2

    “By insisting that all rape accusations be automatically believed feminists also show they have little regard for presumption of innocence or reasonable doubt which pits feminists against the very foundation of our legal system.”

    This really torques me…

    http://www.cotwa.info/

    “LONDON LOONS

    …Orr wants the wrongly accused to suck it up and “declare that despite their personal suffering, they are proud to live in a society that takes people seriously when they say they have been sexually abused . . . .” The wrongly accused should be grateful that the system gives credence to false rape accusers and should serenely declare “so be it” — Orr’s words — when it happens to them. To Orr, the “real” victims aren’t the wrongly accused, they are rape victims who find it traumatic to report their ordeals. The ordeals of men and boys who’ve been wrongly accused, on the other hand, are righteous sacrifices “to a cause much bigger than them – the fight for justice for [real] victims.” ”

    Pretty damn scary to consider that these types of attitudes are being transformed into government policies.

    I always thought that feminists were against chivalry because they found it condescending….turns out, apparently, they were against it because it didn’t go far enough. Enforced hyper-chivalric religiosity anyone?

    I guess she didn’t get the memo…we’re done “sacrificing” and we cast off our imposed “duties.” What we want is equal liberty, equal standards, and equal treatment. I thought that’s what they wanted too.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      Don’t kid yourself – this is TYPICAL of the attitude shown the falsely accused, and worst of it is we are ALL guilty of promoting it.

      Myself included.

      A man in our town went to prison for “shaken Baby Syndrome” crying his innocence all the way. Disgusting! A DOCTOR testified it was shaken baby syndrome, there were many “Don’t Shake A Baby” awareness Public Service announcements going on at the time, yet it seemed a sudden rash of babies were being shaken anyway.

      What is WRONG with people!?!

      A few years later I met a woman at a Garage Sale of all places, who began discussing how Junk Science is used to convict innocent people of Shaken Baby Syndrome. Uh-oh. Turned out her husband was the infamous baby shaker from our town. I cut the conversation short and got away from the woman in short order.

      At the time I presumed she was nutty, delusional, “in denial”, lying to protect her evil husband or just trying to get her bread winner out of prison. Imagine the nerve of her still living in our town and joining in her husband’s claim of innocence!

      I never for one second suspected she might be telling me something that I would be facing only a few years later – that our Just Us system was broken, corrupt and circumventing Constitutional Due Process rights to convict at all costs for their OWN profit. Researching false child abuse accusations and convictions I soon discovered Shaken Baby Syndrome is about legitimate as any other child abuse “syndrome” claims – based more on public need for vengeance or to “do SOMEthing” than actual evidence or science – or guilt.

      Ever wonder why the Duke LaCross players aren’t screaming to high Heaven about their injustice? Or Brian Banks? Or the over 300 innocent men released because of DNA? Notice how the Hofstra accused were horrendously victim blamed and shamed when they DID try to make the public aware?

      The Falsely Accused are told to shut up, take their pain and go away – THEY are to blame for “hurting REAL victims” by validating false accusations DO exist, and making the public aware of being wrongly convicted quite easily by malicious prosecutors isn’t good sportsmanship.

      You lost. Take it like a man.

      So they do as they’re told. They fade into oblivion, they keep their pain to themselves having been told their pain causes other “more worthy” victims pain…without any thought to the next man who will be falsely accused and may not be so lucky as to have recorded evidence, DNA proof or enough money to put forth their truth against the all mighty power of The State’s “truth”.

    • Theseus

      This reminds me of the attitude that certain countries in Asia have about individual rights. It’s like they expect the innocent guy in prison to be celebrating and saying “Golly I’m so glad I’m contributing to my society’s greater good; being falsely imprisoned is a small price to pay”.

      I read the article, and this Orr woman is not only a lunatic but a hypocrite of the highest order. There is no way that she would be celebrating and doing back flips on how well the justice system works if she was falsely accused of something.

      • OneHundredPercentCotton

        Therein lies the rub – women KNOW the odds of THEM being falsely accused of rape by a man are next to ZERO. One in a hundred million – if THAT much.

        It’s like a fat woman claiming starving children don’t exist.

  • donzaloog

    This woman is an obvious pathological liar and has probably been through this with the police many times before. There no way the daughter of a police officer gets treated like this by police after make a report of rape. The police would move heaven and earth to find the perpetrator in a situation like this. The fact that they didn’t is very telling.

    She most has BPD or NPD, maybe even Munchhausen’s and is just looking for attention. She’ll find plenty of it at Freethoughtblogs.

  • victrola21

    So are you ok with men being penalized for false rape accusations? Because personally I am not. Especially since many men wouldn’t feel comfortable acknowledging that they had been raped in the first place. I’m not comfortable with it being penalized for either sex. There is something you can do, it’s called sue them. And yes, I do believe in rape culture. Especially in Steubenville. And for men as well as women. Also, if I am correct, this woman didn’t accuse anyone. She said she was raped by a stranger, not identifying anyone. Regardless of how many false accusations you believe happen (I definitely don’t agree with your stats), there are many, many rapes that go unreported. Trying to make this into a crime won’t do anything to help men who have been raped, indeed, this article only reinforces that stereotype that only men do it to only women.

    • Bewildered

      What exactly are you trying to say here?

      And yes, I do believe in rape culture.

      High grade BS. Belief =/= Fact !

      Also, if I am correct, this woman didn’t accuse anyone. She said she was raped by a stranger, not identifying anyone. Regardless of how many false accusations you believe happen (I definitely don’t agree with your stats), there are many, many rapes that go unreported.

      Just because she said she was raped by a stranger, we are supposed to believe her ! WOW!

      Accusations have to be specific, they can’t be whispering campaigns, if you expect them to be taken seriously

      You don’t agree/disagree with stats but accept/reject them,they are NOT matters of opinion but matters of fact.

      How do you know many rapes go unreported ?
      In fact I would speculate that there are many false rape cases that go unreported because there are lots of people like you who think that bringing them to public notice would dissuade rape victims from reporting the crime.

      • victrola21

        …I think you’ve misunderstood what I’m saying. No, your stats are not THE stats. They are not accepted for a reason. You apparently think you can disregard the stats though. And if you really think either men or women report every single time they are raped, you couldn’t more than wrong. Many, many men and women don’t. I know because I know plenty from each sex. Also, my point in the fact that she didn’t accuse anyone wasn’t to say we should believe her because she didn’t accuse anyone, but merely to point out the fact that SHE IS NOT ACCUSING ANYONE. She is saying she is the victim of a crime, yes. But she isn’t accusing Joe Schmo down the street. It doesn’t seem that anyone is in danger because of her accusation. And no, you can’t just penalize someone because their story seems unbelievable. If you don’t want a man automatically presumed a rapist because it seems most likely that he did it, you can’t immediately presume someone is lying because it seems most likely. There has got to be more digging done. And I really don’t understand what you mean when you say false rape cases go unreported. Do you mean that people fail to falsely accuse someone of rape? Because if that’s the fault of people who think like me that’s ok by me.

        • Nostradormouse

          Some rape accusations are documented but excluded from crime statistics.

          This procedure came to light when accusations were leveled against Washington DC Metropolitan Police Department of unsympathetic and unprofessional detection practice in regard to Sexual Violence cases. Independent investigators reviewed 1500 cases, and found the accusation to be a political tactic to undermine the department.

          An example of a dismissed accusation was the case of the Bikini Wax Rape Accusation. Upon investigation, an accusation of rape was found to be against a Beauty Parlour. On the accuser’s second visit to the Parlour, a technician performing a Brazilian Bikini Wax was accused of touching her in an inappropriate way.

          Your written comprehension skills see to be in question. It is not suggested that women fail to falsely accuse someone of rape.

          On investigating an accusation of rape this embarrassingly bogus, and this trivial to disprove and dismiss, Police Procedure is to have a few salty words with the accuser about wasting their time, and tell them to go away, so as to minimise time wastes processing paperwork.

    • Theseus

      “I do believe in rape culture”.

      For the umpteenth time until I get a straight answer…WTF does “rape culture” mean? Do you understand that one (of many) of the reasons that it is scoffed at is because it remains undefined and it can be morphed into whatever the claimant says it is?

      If you are going with the standard “normalizing and joking about it” definition, where the FUCK is your goddamn proof?!! Do you really understand how weird and stupid it is to use the word “culture” in respect to a small minority of completely unorganized degenerates? Where are all these large groups of men that sweep the nation laughing, joking, and normalizing rape? Hmmmm?

      They do not exist! Look if the vast majority of men don’t engage or tolerate this behavior then it cannot constitute a “culture”. And if you say it does, then frankly your are a liar, or in denial, or both.

      I’ve had it up to here with you mental giants that laugh and ridicule religious nut jobs for being anti-evolution and believing in dogma and then turn around and go “Dahhhrrr, I’ll use the exact same idiot reasoning skills and dogmatic belief when it comes to feminist bullshit…. Daaahhhrr.

      Fucking Hypocrites with your selective reasoning..

    • crydiego

      I’m only replying to you because I can see you really believe in what you’re saying. I think you heart is in the right place but maybe you haven’t thought it through. Forget gender, forget rape and ask yourself if you think false accusations for any kind of a crime should be illegal.
      What if I were to say you committed a crime and you got arrested, maybe fired from your job or your spouse left you? You would just tear my ass up in civil court; that’s your plan? No problem for you, you would just take my last $5000 dollars and start a new life.

      • victrola21

        I can take more than just what you have left. I can garnish up to 25% of your wages, and any real estate you own, etc.

      • victrola21

        The way the American judicial system works is that at the end of a trial someone is guilty or not guilty. There is not a guilty party no matter what. If the person is accused of commiting a crime and not found guilty, he is not guilty. The prosecutor is not automatically guilty. What you are proposing is that at the end of every trial SOMEONE will be convicted. Someone will be guilty. Someone’s guilt will be proved by someone’s innocence, and vice versa. But this isn’t the way the world works. There was a case in Cali (I believe, don’t remember the state) where a woman accused a man of rape. He had pretended to be her boyfriend at night, which he had admitted to. He was pronounced innocent because of an outdated law. It would have only been illegal if he had been impersonating her husband. I do NOT think that she should therefore be guilty of a crime simply because the court declared him innocent. If a man brings a woman to trial saying that she raped him, and she is found not guilty, I do not think that he should than be declared guilty. If I believe that someone robbed me, and bring charges against what seems a likely suspect, and it turns out he/she was not the perptrator, no, I don’t think that I should then get a guilty verdict. If someone is accused of murder, and found innocent, no, I do not think his prosecutor should be penalized. I could go on, but I won’t. I believe that what seems to be proposed shows a lack of knowledge as to how the court system operates.

        • Nostradormouse

          The playing field has a distinct gradient.

          A woman can make an accusation of rape, and it is incumbent on the man to prove his innocence. Her name is kept private where his is published. If the prosecution fails to convict, he is not considered “innocent”, he is just not considered provably guilty.

          There is no down side for a woman. She can accuse men of rape until she is blue in the face, and no negative consequences are visited upon her.

          Once there is an accusation of rape, a crime has been committed. The crime is either rape, or defamation of character. Both have very serious life consequences for the victim. Either the rape provably took place, the accusation was provably false, or it can not be proven either way.

          A policy of investigating, and where a crime had been committed, vigourous prosecution and the full penalty of the law every time would have no effect on genuine rapes. It would, however, turn false rape accusation from a hobby into an extreme sport like waterski-jumping over a shark pool, or alligator wrestling.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      You believe in Rape Culture? Oh, I do too!

      I mean, how many innocent men have been tarred and feathered, beaten to death, lynched, imprisoned for DECADES, blackmailed, and the entire black district of Tulsa burned to the ground on the say so of a woman? No proof needed. He’s guilty, git a rope.

      When a woman cries RAPE how often is HER name and photograph emblazoned on the front page of every newspaper and news source, as opposed to a MAN “allegedly” accused?

      Even after a man is provably the victim of a false accusation, such as the Duke LaCrosse players, they are STILL pronounced “guilty” – because of “rape culture”?

      Seems more like False Rape Culture to me.

      • victrola21

        Yes, I do believe innocent men have suffered as a result of false rape allegations, though I believe that what you’re referring to had much more to do with racism. Yes, I do believe that’s wrong. Yes, I do believe that something should be done. But pretending that rape is a made up most of the time won’t help. It doesn’t hold water. It injures your case when people can’t find you credible. You can’t simply pick one side and pretend like no damage is done to the other. It would be the same as me saying that what you’re referring to never happened.

      • http://yourthoughttank.blogspot.com/2013_09_01_archive.html sfp289

        The problem was never rape culture, but rather a generation of women who have no conscience and therefore are part of what I call, “lying whore culture”.

        • victrola21

          Ahh yes. I forget men never lynched anyone. It was the lying whores!!! That is why the KKK was made up of entirely women.

          • Nostradormouse

            The members of the KKK were male, but were the ultimate “White Knights”. Women had literal power of life and death over the black male population with no personal repercussions. This was violence by proxy, and women had all of the power with none of the responsibility.

            Privilege is invisible to those who wield it.

          • Fredrik

            @Nostradormouse: Speaking of literal, I once met a guy who explained the cross tattoo on his hand by saying that he was a grandson of the founder of the White Knights, which was apparently a KKK-like organization.

          • Nostradormouse

            You couldn’t make it up.

  • rayc2

    I find it hard to believe that any rape accusation, with the injuries she described, would not be taken seriously…not today or even anytime in the past by anyone; cops daughter or not. If her story is true at all, there must be a lot more to it that she isn’t telling us.

  • Jay

    Unless we are presented with more evidence from EEB, it is almost certain that this EEB character is simply telling a lie to further her political agenda of misandry.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      More evidence? What “more evidence”? Rape culture! Rape culture! How DARE you ask for evidence?

      EEB SAID SO, therefore it’s TRUE.

  • Nightwing1029

    “The 2% myth and the extended 6-8% mythical allowance are based on guesses.”
    Had this one thrown at me once. I told them thus: “If it’s acceptable for 2-6% of reports being false, does that mean you believe that 2-6% of women being raped is acceptable?”
    They hate that.
    And they don’t seem to understand that none of that should be acceptable. Gender doesn’t matter.

    • victrola21

      No. It doesn’t. But an accusation is just that, an accusation. It does not mean the person was pronounced guilty.

      • lensman

        “An accusation is just that, an accusation. It does not mean the person was pronounced guilty.”

        No, a false accusation doesn’t necessarily end with a conviction but it can have some very dire consequences.

        I once shared three stories of false rape accusations that have happened to some friends and colleagues of mine. Note that these people are not in any way associated with the MRM, they are just people that I am talking to on a first-name basis.

        I believe I should add an epilogue of sorts as to what happened to them afterwards.

        My uncle, the one who was jailed of rape even though he was clearly set up (I guess that makes him a “false positive stat”) is currently going through depression. He hardly talks to anyone, and whenever I talk to him there’s a big gloom hovering his entire being. Before the incident he was a fun-loving guy who always smiled and enjoyed life. Now he is a virtual recluse, a shadow of his former self. He is clearly showing signs of PTSD, and my entire family is on the look-out so that he doesn’t do anything drastic.

        I already mentioned the consequences of the false rape accusation to my lab-supervisor’s career. What I didn’t mention was what it probably did to his character: he has a big problem trusting people and forming meaningful relationships with anyone, and that includes his immediate family. Though he is a good supervisor, as far as the lab goes, in his personal life he is… well… an asshole. And I can’t help but wonder if the false accusation had anything to with it (the accusation occurred years before I met him)

        As for my friend… He told me that he has had enough of “Crazy Greek women” (his exact words), and decided to move to Turkey and set up his life there. I haven’t hanged out with him in years, but from what he has been telling me over skype, he is perfectly happy where he is and is currently engaged to a muslim girl. His family, especially his father, who is a Greek-Orthodox priest, is not taking this very well.

        A false accusation doesn’t end in conviction, but it always has consequences… always.

      • Nostradormouse

        The US Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs had a plague of rape accusations. The General put in charge of the investigation questioned everybody with a lie detector. The 40% of rape accusations being false comes from the every single case being investigated, and 40% of accusers recanting their accusation.

        There were Courts Martial, and dismissals. There were inconclusive cases. 40% of those accusing other cadets of rape withdrew their accusations voluntarily.

      • Bewildered

        But an accusation is just that, an accusation. It does not mean the person was pronounced guilty.

        Let us say as an accuser I am given annonymity and I accuse Mr.X of being a pedophile and among other things he sodomizes his daughter [a very precious human being !] regularly and by some miracle of miracles HE’S ABLE TO PROVE HIS INNOCENCE .
        I made a false accusation right? So by your logic I am not culpable of slander and I deserve anonymity because other accusers who make true accusations won’t come forward to save precious females,who must be protected at all costs.Without due process, courts would have become lunatic asylums long ,long ago.

        • Nostradormouse

          This discussion must exclude the fanciful, and restrict itself to ‘decision support’ to improve the outcomes of a system reaching decisions, based on the available evidence.

          Current Model of Rape

          Zone 1: “Provably Guilty”.
          The accusation is proven, the accused is punished.
          The accuser is vindicated.
          The Law works as intended, the Social Contract is reinforce with mass Catharsis.

          Zone 2: “Unprovable/unproven”
          The accusation is unproven, but the accused is damaged by the accusation.
          The accuser experiences no sanction.
          Asymmetrical Justice corrodes the Social Contract.

          Zone 3: “Provably Innocent”.
          The accusation is disproven. The reputation of the accused is tarnished with Rape.
          The accuser is guilty of Libel but typically experiences no sanction.
          Asymmetrical Justice corrodes the Social Contract.

          The innocent must have no need to fear of Justice, but with Rape, they even fears accusation. In such a paranoid world, Mental Health is determined by a roll of the dice. A crime that can take place without malicious intent of the alleged perpetrstor, or where originally lawful activity can be retrospectively reconstructed as criminality based on perception opinion or emotion, makes Justice extremely problematic and unstable.

          The process of Law must required evidential proof to deny liberty, since without it an accusation by a malicious accuser will inevitably be abused. Making false or malicious allegation without consequence is Power without Responsibility; no win for the accused; no lose for the accuser.

          Anonymity for both accuser and accused during the trial makes a serious but unproven accusation neutral for both sides. Accusers who genuinely believe that their accusation is true would not be discouraged from come forward and accuse in good conscience.

          A Guilty Man able to prove his innocence by dint of supernatural intervention, falls outside the scope of this discussion. It would call the efficacy of the entire Criminal Justice System into question, and precipitate a much more fundamental and radical discussion about what we replace the Phorensic Science Industry, Police, Courts, and Criminal Justice System with, to counteract Divine Intervention.

          [fairyland]
          The literary canon suggests that ‘Muggle’ accusing anyone who has effectively deployed “magic” to escape punishment for incestuous pedophilia, will likely be poorly served by the conventional Judicial System.

          Unless you can conscript Hogwarts in your defence, the Mental Health System may be your most effective escape from his influence. By the sounds of it you’ll fit in quite happily.
          [/fairyland]

  • scatmaster

    I told them thus: “If it’s acceptable for 2-6% of reports being false, does that mean you believe that 2-6% of women being raped is acceptable?”
    They hate that.

    Well done.

  • victrola21

    Actually, I think I’ll go along with the general spirit of this blog.
    http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/stay-safeyou-deserve-rape/comment-page-1/#comment-186392
    Men, you need to understand that there is risk. You NEED to not put yourself in a place where a woman could accuse you of rape. Do not be alone with a woman. Don’t go drinking with a woman. Avoid dark alley ways at night where you seem like a possible predator. Do not flirt with women. Do NOT try to pick up or take women home. Do not have one night stands. You need to realize that there are risks and take them into account. We cannot teach women to not cry rape. Please take some of your own advice.

    • externalangst

      @victrola21: From the general thrust of your comment, I would agree. Men, especially young men need to be taught about the dangers of women as women are about men. Boys need to be instructed that some or many women will lie on the most despicable way to destroy males for their own amusement or trivial benefit. Tell them that many women are very bad and dangerous people and that they should be careful.

      Boys and men should also be instructed into the natures of white knights and manginas. How power attracts these kind of people and other psychopaths that would do them harm for their own nefarious reasons. We owe the males of the future the truth. But victrola21, how do you think that would go down with many women and their champions?

    • lensman

      I believe your intent is to prove that there is a “double standard” here concerning our treatment of rape and false allegations….

      Sadly for you there is none. Taken at face value, what you are saying is true and a lot of people here will agree with it. Young men really need to be educated on the risks of interacting with women in a public setting where lots of alcohol is involved, about the risks of false allegations, especially when they try to have a multitude of sexual partners and behave like a playboy. And they need to find out how they can protect themselves and those they care about in a way that doesn’t compromise their social life.

      Do you now see why AVfM is pushing for Men’s Centers in University Campuses?

      • victrola21

        No, not a double standard. Just showing how wrong it is at the end of the day. Although these two articles seem to suggest that at least the authors of the pieces have very different standards.

      • victrola21

        You think that this shouldn’t be the case for men, and hate it and are trying to do something about it. But women had better watch out? It does seem sexist that you’re advocating for them to do what you’re trying to fight against you having to do.

    • Nostradormouse

      This advice has been completely internalised within the Men’s Rights Movement, and is communicated at every opportunity.

      It is our experience that feminist women are every bit as toxic as you suggest, and that men really should have nothing to do with them. Don’t date. No one night stands. As you value your sanity and liberty, don’t speak to a woman unless you absolutely have to, and only then in informational monosyllables. And ABR. “Always Be Recording”. When faced with such an environment, it isn’t paranoia, it is self-preservation.

      We call it MGTOW (Men Going their Own Way).

      Interestingly, the Japanese “Sushoku danshi” are a few years ahead of the West in this regard. If you would like to see the logical consequences of this on population demographic, have a look at this article on Japan.

      Chairman Mao’s “Women can hold up half the sky” was edited down by feminists to “Women hold up half the sky”.

      If the systematic feminist assault on men continues, the punctuation is going to change to “Women, hold up half the sky”.

      From where I’m standing, the endgame may well be “Women, hold up the sky!”

      • Bewildered

        Cheer up ! brother, don’t be a pessimist.

        • Nostradormouse

          Interesting that you don’t question the line of argument.

          My glass is neither half full nor half empty. My glass is over-engineered.

    • Bewildered

      We cannot teach women to not cry rape.

      Wrong ! This is a socially constructed behaviour. Ensure that there are serious repercussions for crying rape and notice how quickly women learn to ‘not cry rape’.
      However you can’t teach any rapist not to rape,like how you can’t teach a feminist to talk sense.
      Both are mental cases with very little chances of a recovery.
      The main difference being the former is a biological accident whereas the latter is a socially induced,mostly irreversible, damage to the hard wiring of the brain.
      However there are some well known miraculous recoveries from the latter via the red pill treatment route.

    • Bewildered

      Men, you need to understand that there is risk. You NEED to not put yourself in a place where a woman could accuse you of rape. Do not be alone with a woman. Don’t go drinking with a woman. Avoid dark alley ways at night where you seem like a possible predator. Do not flirt with women. Do NOT try to pick up or take women home. Do not have one night stands. You need to realize that there are risks and take them into account.

      Men! since you have been made aware of the ‘dangers’ these sham sluts pose, visit a professional whore and demand good service. Heck! it might turn out cheaper and a lot safer.

      • Nostradormouse

        If there were no difference between the experience of having a girlfriend and “the Girlfriend Experience”, universally available sex through hookup culture (which is a real thing) would have killed off the prostitution business model.

        Yet it appears to be alive, well, and thriving. What do these women know that lets them charge for pretending to be a girlfriend, where most women can only get a booty call or a meal if they go Dutch?

        It is not an original observation on this site that women could learn a great deal from prostitutes about how men like to be treated. Forget talking dirty to me, talk to me as if you can actually stand to be in the same room with me. Oh yeah – say something nice. Say something complimentary. Say something respectful… oh baby, say something affectionate to me!

        Sorry about that. Flash back.

        • victrola21

          I’d rather not get my advice from a hooker. A prostitute is 3 times more likely than a returning war vet to have ptsd. Not to mention my husband would be disgusted if that’s where I was getting my advice. He doesn’t want an act, he wants me. I don’t want him to get tips from a prostitute either, I have plenty better advice for him. Maybe instead of going to hookers and marriage books and pastors for advice on what our partner needs we should just ask our partner? If men like to be treated like a john, and how horribly you’re getting treated is true, than, baby, you’re getting treated like most prostitutes wish they could treat their johns. Congrats, your wish has come true.

          • Nostradormouse

            You ask a Pastor about your married life? Unless he is qualified as an advisor therapist or counselor, that may be part of your problem.

            The continuing flourishing existence of prostitution in the face of a hostile legal regime, and especially their “matrimonially impaired” trade might suggest you may be in error, and that married women need precisely such advice.

            When you alude to being treated like a John, I assume you are “slut shaming”, rather than describing the behaviour their clients value so strongly that they not only pay, but accept significant risk of universal opprobrium to experience?

            If you were slut shaming, I would remind you that this is an almost exclusively female behaviour (hence ineffective here). Hetrosexual men are naturally curious as to the identity of the women you refer to as sluts, but are not motivated by any desire to judge or sanction them. Not so much ‘slut shaming’, more ‘slut identification for reference’.

            Prostitutes are honest business women. If they don’t supply what men demand they go out of business. Men demand partners who are imaginative, clean, pleasantly fragrant (“smells that appeal to men”, not “perfumes women wear”), feminine, gentle, playful, happy, non-shaming, emotionally & sexually available, enthusiastic, unambiguous, accepting, intimate, and pretending to find the John desirable.

            I would recommend any married women seek the services of a consulting “daughter of negotiable virtue”. Obviously the strain of pretending some of, let alone all of those behaviours for any period of time would cause most modern women fatal cognitive dissonance. Prostitutes get a premium because that is the fantasy of how women behave in men’s dreams.

            Of course it is unrealistic, just like the narrative in any work of Women’s Romantic Fiction e.g. a chubby neurotic dumb secretary scoring an International Civil Rights Barrister.

            What’s that you say? “How dare you! Bridget Jones is a documentary!”

            The case for the defence rests, M’lud.

  • Mika

    So here is another classic case of a false rape accusation for those that may be interested.

    http://jonathanturley.org/2013/10/08/temple-football-player-cleared-after-being-charged-with-rape-stripped-of-scholarship-thrown-out-of-college-and-publicly-ostracized/

    As Mr Turley says in his article………….

    “I have previously discussed the pattern of prosecutors in either not charging false rape victims or seeking relatively light sentences despite the incarceration of innocent men. ”

    It is heartening to see others, especially some of those in the legal profession, highlighting this problem as well as questioning the treatment handed out (or lack thereof) to the false accuser women.

    I suspect he is somewhat of a lone voice in his profession though.

  • transom

    I know this is an old thread, and I apologize for bringing it back up, but I want to say a loud and clear “thanks” for this article.

    It’s the worst time in my life. Last week I was accused of consent violation by a woman I’d recently ended a year-long relationship with.

    Although the details do not seem to be as dire as many other men in my situation, it feels personally devastating. I’m unable to sleep, I’ve had dull (but constant) chest pains for the past 5 days, my appetite and sex drive are both completely absent.

    I’ve been the subject of a lot of traffic on a social networking site we’re both a member of, and I’ve already been convicted among that community, as well as among many of my friends. There’s been no criminal case, no police reports, but a large portion of this community is now convinced that I’m a rapist and a stalker. This incident has spurred a lot of conversation on that site about false rape accusation statistics, victim-blaming, victim-shaming, and all the other elements of this dynamic that have come up in the comments section here.

    I feel completely alone. My disgust at the idea of consent violation combined with the vehement defense of my accuser has me, at times, doubting my own innocence. There have been moments where I haven’t been completely sure I had the strength to get through this.

    This is a woman I’ve *adored* for the past 18 months. I did everything I could to make her feel good and help her be happy. She said beautiful and kind things to me. She seemed to adore me back, and place me on a pedestal and honor me. I turned my life upside down for her.

    In the end, I had to end things for my own emotional safety. It didn’t go well. I had no earthly clue this was coming, and when it did it went from just trying to get over love lost to something completely new and incomprehensible.

    When I was told of the accusation on social networking, I was stunned to the point where I couldn’t even cry. When I was served with a hearing notice for a protection order two days later, it felt like the knockout blow. I’ve had to take sick days simply because I can’t pull my shit together enough to actually do work.

    I want to thank everyone on this page for the things they’ve said. Even though my case may be mild in comparison to other cases, I feel less alone. It helps.

  • Nobody True

    after a 2 week trial at huge public cost i was found not guilty of 4 counts of rape. my accuser has made many many allegations in the past. all of this was hidden from the jury. i had my name trashed. my life destroyed. a year on bail. 6 months i wore a tag and 2 weeks i was on remand in pentonville. but im not even allowed to tell the full story in order to protect her anonymity. she was proven to be lying on the stand. we live in a world where every man has to worry that the next women he says hello to may accuse him falsely. things have to change.