Blackboard background with a hand holding chalk

How to Stop Rape

I’ll tell you first how you don’t stop rape.

Seeing a poster that says “My strength is not for hurting” or “don’t be that guy” won’t do anything that a law doesn’t.

You see an anti-rape law is sorta like an anti-rape poster except with a punishment attached for not following what the poster says.

So how is saying “men, don’t rape” going to be more effective than saying “men, don’t rape” and then adding “if you do, you go to jail?”

Because this is what these feminist inspired posters essentially are. They are a law, against rape, but without the actual criminal punishment. If the law isn’t an effective deterrent, than how is a poster going to be an effective deterrent?

Men who rape are not raping because they’ve been told it’s cool or fun or awesome, or because they heard an off color joke, saw a naked ankle or watched porn… they rape because they have a powerful emotional compulsion to do so.

Let’s get something clear. Human beings—barring the congenitally emotionally disabled such as sociopaths—don’t want to rape. They don’t like rape. Rape is the exact opposite of what a human being wants when they engage in sex. Men, who happen to be human beings just like women, want to feel desirable.

Most men are devastated after being rejected by a woman. What makes anyone think that the average man is going to enjoy enduring the most profound rejection one human being can muster for another—which is exactly what the rapist endures in order to rape.

men-can-stop-rape-inc

If you saw someone eating broken glass, would you assume the glass is tasty or conclude there’s something seriously wrong with the person chowing down?

What the current crop of male targeted anti-rape posters will do is normalize rape. It won’t normalize rape for men who aren’t compelled to rape in the first place. Nope. It’ll just shame them. But it will normalize rape for men who are rapists.

Instead of seeing themselves as damaged individuals who are engaging not just in harm to others, but harm to themselves, rapists—male ones at least—will see themselves as the guys who do what every other guy really wants to do, but doesn’t have the balls.

They aren’t hurting, they’re edgy.

Rapists are in the business of rationalizing their compulsion to repeat, rationalizing their sense of powerlessness, and current anti-rape posters help them do just that. Rape is normal male behaviour, dontchaknow? Something men teach each other to do when feminists aren’t there to stop them.

But if jokes, naked ankles and porn don’t cause men to rape women, what does?

Being raped.

That’s right.  In fact, having been sexually abused by a  woman[1] is a stronger risk factor for becoming a future sexual abuser in boys than having been sexually abused by a man.

horzPosters_prod_r.inddThis is where the emotional compulsion to abuse comes from. This is the motivation. This is the manufacture process for adult male rapists.

Yet despite being sexually violated, only a fraction of these boys go on to abuse! That’s how resistant to raping the average male human is; even the most effective method of training a boy to become a rapist—by raping him–is only effective for one out of every ten boys.

The idea that a bad joke, a naked ankle or porn will cause men to rape is demonizing. The idea that there exists a “rape culture” teaching men to rape in any way but by raping them and then ignoring their subsequent emotional disorder is depraved.

And here’s the thing. Right now, in the US, there is an epidemic of  institutionalized sexual abuse that is being ignored in favor of manufactured statistics about sex trafficking of girls and other juicy sexualized and sensationalized threat narratives designed to push our buttons.

In fact this epidemic of sexual abuse makes the Catholic Church scandal pale in comparison.

Since the 1950s approximately 12,000 men have come forward to admit abuse in the Catholic Church sex scandal.

10,000 boys a year are being sexually abused by female staff in juvenile detention facilities in the US. A YEAR.

So here’s the equation. Boys learn to be rapists by having been raped(even if only a fraction of them go on to enact their abuse), and we’re turning a blind eye to women raping boys in juvenile facilities—better termed “boy rape camps”—and then we’re ignoring, denying and minimizing female-on-male sexual abuse in order to prop up a morally bankrupt feminist empire built on the backs of rape victims—both victims of actual rapists and victims terrorized by rape hysteria itself.

And then we normalize rape with posters that suggest rape is not the abnormal behavior of the emotionally damaged, but a manifestation of masculinity or male culture. Men will rape for trivial reasons because they saw a naked ankle, or porn or hear a rape joke. (Or are dope fiends or black or Jewish or…)

rapecultureBy normalizing rape, these posters do the opposite of what they intend. They empower rapists and disempower emotionally healthy men who would never rape. They promote a distorted, simplistic view of rape as an emergent property of maleness rather than an emergent property of sexual abuse.

As for male victims of female rapists, they never see themselves in these posters. They are never acknowledged at all. This forces the problem of female perpetrated sexual abuse underground; in fact we could see the existence of male-perpetuated sexual abuse as a symptom of our society’s absolute inability to recognize male victims and give them timely help.

So how do we stop rape?

We acknowledge female rapists. We acknowledge why boys grow up to be rapists. We provide services for male survivors of sexual abuse so they have a place to heal. Not just to stop the cycle of abuse but because men and boys who are sexual abuse survivors deserve as much compassion as women and girls. We kick the ideologs out of our institutions of healing because what matters is helping people, not perpetuating feminist pseudoscience.

We start by telling the feminists to shut the fuck up.

There is no ‘rape culture’ and if there is—if the idea of “rape culture” really is ‘a culture which enables rape’–you better start backpedaling because it’s looking like you’re the biggest purveyors of it.

[1] Salter D., McMillan D., Richards M., Talbot T., Hodges J., Bentovim A., Hastings R., Stevenson J., Skuse D., Development of sexually abusive behaviour in sexually victimized males: a longitudinal study, The Lancet, Vol. 361, February 8, 2003

(While we’re on the subject of female-perpetuated sexual abuse, most surveys that ask college age women about the sexual abuse they perpetrate find a shocking levels of female-perpetrated sexual abuse. Other surveys find that men who perpetuate sexual abuse are also sexually abused, suggesting a cycle of sexual abuse on college campuses. Perhaps rather than being victims of an indifferent system these silent female rape victims–who are ALSO part of a culture of cyclical sexual abuse–fail to come forward to the authorities about their abuse because it would mean admitting that they also are rapists? So the constant drumbeat of feminist agitprop about making these women “comfortable” never will, unless feminists invent a ray gun that neutralizes cognitive dissonance.)

About Alison Tieman (Typhonblue)

Alison Tieman (aka Typhonblue) is a Canadian writer and social observer. She is a Senior Contributor and Editor to A Voice for Men, penning superlative works that analyse gender-related behavior in men and women. She also writes for Genderratic, and is a founder and member of The Honeybadger Brigade.

Main Website
View All Posts
  • AVFM seeks app writer volunteer

    Are you an MHRA? Can you write apps for iPhone and Android? Are you willing to do that for AVFM on a special project? Please contact us.

    A Voice for Men seeks a volunteer with solid app writing experience to help us develop an app that will be linked to the AVFM brand. If you have the qualifications and are serious about following through, we would love to hear from you. Your efforts could be of great assistance to this website and to our cause. Please contact Paul Elam at paul@avoiceformen.com for more details...

  • Wikimasters, Editors, Translators, and Writers Wanted *Apply Now*

    Fight Wikipedia censorship! Add to and improve the AVfM Reference Wiki. Volunteers needed for writing, proofreading, and organizing. Some knowledge of the German language will be helpful but *not* required.

    Please create an account and then follow instructions here

  • Steven_Bukal

    @Typhonblue (Asha James)

    “This is working off of the presumption that the vast majority of abusers will be formerly abused children. Otherwise the science is useless.”

    The science would be useless for the purpose that you want it to serve, but the purpose of the paper seems to be identifying not men in general who are at risk of becoming abusers, but male child victims who are at risk. That’s what they said in the introduction:

    “Identification of childhood victims at greatest risk of subsequently abusing children would allow therapeutic resources to be directed more accurately and effectively than at present.”

    Basically, they want to help professionals working with child victims to do their jobs more effectively.

    Now again, I think you’re very certainly right in your overall conclusion, and I don’t doubt that the connection between abuse in childhood and going on to become an abuser is very strong. I’ve seen some studies to that effect myself. But this particular paper doesn’t really say that.

    I think I’ve said all I have to say on this point. You can have the last word if you’d like.

    “I’m using “partner” as a short hand for sexual partner, without specifically referencing a relationship.”

    Got it, sorry for the confusion there.

    “start by asking yourself “why would a normal, healthy person rape when evidence suggests it’s _feeling desirable_ that’s the real draw for sex for humans”

    Okay, now I see what you’re getting at. That’s an interesting point, but some counterexamples jump to mind. Feeling desirable is certainly a draw for sex for humans, but I think it’s a stretch to say that it’s the ‘real’ draw. Otherwise, why would masturbation and prostitution exist? Why would PUAs exist?

    I think all of these things tend to be more about the sex itself, the physical pleasure of the sex, etc. than they are about being desired by a partner (except insofar as it is required to get the sex). And I would hesitate to call any of these things abnormal or unhealthy.

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      @ Steve

      “The science would be useless for the purpose that you want it to serve, but the purpose of the paper seems to be identifying not men in general who are at risk of becoming abusers, but male child victims who are at risk. That’s what they said in the introduction”

      I’m guessing I have to draw the parallel explicitly.

      This is their goal:

      From the paper: **To identify risk factors for
      sexually abusive behaviour by adults**, we prospectively
      assessed childhood experiences and personal
      characteristics of male child victims who became abusers in later life.

      They’re not identifying risk factors for sexually abusive behaviour in sexually abused adults; they’re identifying risk factors for sexually abusive behaviour in adults.

      If there wasn’t a strong correlation between being abused and going on to abuse, this science would be useless because they aren’t studying a population that accurately reflects the population they want to make conclusions about.

      “Otherwise, why would masturbation and prostitution exist? Why would PUAs exist?”

      Actually, prostitution and sex work support the assertion. Much of it is, apparently, about making men feel desirable. In fact in terms of strippers, men have made this connection explicit: they go to get attention from attractive women.

      I think PUAs are very much about developing desire in women.

      Masturbation may just be about sexual pleasure–or maybe, self-desire–but it’s also not an activity that impacts anyone else negatively. In fact it could prove my point. If masturbation affords a better sensation–and many men and women seem to think it does–why seek out the social aspects of sex?

      • Steven_Bukal

        “Actually, prostitution and sex work support the assertion. Much of it is, apparently, about making men feel desirable.”

        I wouldn’t be surprised if *some* of it was. Everyone likes to feel desirable, so making your client feel desirable is going to make you more successful no matter what your service is. I would be highly surprised though if in sex work making the client feel desirable was half so important as giving the client pleasurable sex.

        “In fact in terms of strippers, men have made this connection explicit: they go to get attention from attractive women.”

        Is it to get attention from attractive women, or to see attractive women period? I would liken visiting a stripper to purchasing pornography, which men also do in vast quantities.

        “I think PUAs are very much about developing desire in women.”

        This could be its own discussion, but I don’t think it’s contentious to say that the primary goal of pickup artistry is sex. That’s why they focus almost exclusively on the bar and club scene, where people tend to be more interested in casual hooking up, not relationships of mutual interest. I think it’s also not contentious to say that a significant number of PUAs are mostly interested in sexual conquest and the number of notches on their bedpost. Not that I have any issue at all with these things as goals.

        “Masturbation may just be about sexual pleasure–or maybe . . . ”

        I don’t think many men consider masturbation to afford a better sensation that sex. Is this actually your experience talking to men?

        And again, even though I think that sex and the sexual pleasure itself are more important to men than you do, I’m not saying that mutual desire is of no value to men. I think healthy, normal men would choose a sexual relationship involving desire above one that lacks desire, but that they would still find something greatly valuable in the latter.

        I think the reason normal, healthy men don’t rape isn’t because doing so would yield absolutely nothing that they want. I think it’s because they have empathy for their fellow humans and believe that taking this thing that they want by force is wrong. Law factors in as well, obviously.

        • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

          @ Steven

          “I wouldn’t be surprised if *some* of it was. Everyone likes to feel desirable, so making your client feel desirable is going to make you more successful no matter what your service is. I would be highly surprised though if in sex work making the client feel desirable was half so important as giving the client pleasurable sex.”

          Prepare to be surprised. Pros report that it’s more about the “girlfriend experience” than the sex.

          “Is it to get attention from attractive women, or to see attractive women period? I would liken visiting a stripper to purchasing pornography, which men also do in vast quantities.”

          Nope. A study reported that when men view attractive women in photos they only get a dopamine dump if the woman _is looking at them_.

          “This could be its own discussion, but I don’t think it’s contentious to say that the primary goal of pickup artistry is sex.”

          I doubt it. Again, in terms of pure nerve-end stimulation there is no woman who can beat what masturbation offers. Or toys.

          Look up the Venus2000.

          I don’t think it’s contentious to say that they’re mostly after sex however if nerve-ending stimulation is better done through mechanical means and the women PUAs are picking up are, logically, going to be far less attractive than porn stars…

          What is it that they’re really after?

          Saying it’s sex is simplistic. Because another thing I’ve noticed is that most of the promiscuous men I’ve men have really bad fucking sex. At least they seem to complain about it a lot to me; whereas they’re telling all the men they meet how awesome it is.

          It sorta goes like this:

          PromiscuousGuy to another guy: I just got laid by an 18 year old hottie! Fuck she was smokin’.

          PromiscuousGuy to typhon: Jeezus that was the worst sex I’ve ever had. She had no idea what she was doing, I had to stop her three times because I was literally in pain from the stupid shit she was pulling; and then I had to lie about it because… blah blah blah

          For some reason guys like to talk to me about this stuff. I’ll be hanging out and some fellow will walk in, look around and make a beeline for me.

          Fellow: You look like a likely sort, let me tell you all about the foibles of my sex life.

          Typhon: Good lord, why?

          Fellow: It all started when I was seven…

          “I don’t think many men consider masturbation to afford a better sensation that sex. Is this actually your experience talking to men?”

          Yes. I’ve heard many men say that they masturbate in order to enjoy themselves because sex itself is rife with expectations. Also, let’s be honest, when you’re masturbating you can concentrate on what pleases you specifically.

          “And again, even though I think that sex and the sexual pleasure itself are more important to men than you do, I’m not saying that mutual desire is of no value to men. I think healthy, normal men would choose a sexual relationship involving desire above one that lacks desire, but that they would still find something greatly valuable in the latter.”

          And I disagree. I don’t even think most men like porn in which there is no suggestion of desire in the porn actress.

          Biologically, human beings switched from having sex triggered by hormonal compulsion(heats, musts, etc) to something else.

          That something is desire; it’s become far more mediated by social cues than anything else.

          Again, if it was just physical pleasure, toys + porn is more satisfying. And a hell of a lot safer.

          “I think it’s because they have empathy for their fellow humans and believe that taking this thing that they want by force is wrong.”

          That’s the point. Sex is an exchange of empathy; that’s the draw, that’s what desire means.

          Rape is not.

          “Law factors in as well, obviously.”

          Likely far less than you think.

          • Steven_Bukal

            “Prepare to be surprised. Pros report that it’s more about the “girlfriend experience” than the sex.”

            That it’s *more* about that experience than the sex? I confess, this I will need a reference to believe.

            “Nope. A study reported that when men view attractive women in photos they only get a dopamine dump if the woman _is looking at them_.”

            Again, *only* when they are being looked at, or *mostly*. I suppose it would then also have to be asked, do most rape victims look at their rapist?

            When I have some time I will look into these myself, it would be unreasonable to expect you to have citations on hand.

            “That’s the point. Sex is an exchange of empathy; that’s the draw, that’s what desire means.”

            Okay, well I’ll have to look into your above points (the ones you made that I didn’t quote I agree with) and the general statistics on rapists and history of child abuse, but I think we’re just about in agreement then.

            Men rape when they have an abnormal desire for sex and lack of empathy, usually caused by abuse in childhood. Fair phrasing?

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            “That it’s *more* about that experience than the sex? I confess, this I will need a reference to believe.”

            Do you have evidence for your belief? You are asserting something every bit as much as I am.

            Do some reading about what pros say about their clients.

            “Men rape when they have an abnormal desire for sex and lack of empathy, usually caused by abuse in childhood.”

            Almost. They do not have an abnormal desire for sex. They have an urge to rape.

            Sex is not rape; the purpose and intent of rape is as separate from sex as a gynaecological exam is(a gynaecological exam being neutral, not exploitative.)

            There is some evidence that 1. male rapists have difficulty maintaining an erection during rape 2. male rapists are indiscriminate in selecting their partners. In other words, a male rapist who is straight in his consenting relationships will often chose men as well as women to rape.

            Rape is not forced sex–if it’s forced, it ceases to be sex. Rape is it’s own quantity entirely.

            Also, it’s not just men, it’s women too.

    • JGteMolder

      I don’t know about you; but in my fantasies, the women want me. In fact, even the rape fantasies – that is not getting raped, but raping – is ultimately not about brutally forcing a person to do something against their will (much like getting raped fantasies are not about a person brutally forcing you to do something against their will), it’s about being so sexually desirable that even if you take what you want, your “victim” won’t consider him or herself being victimized, they will just consider it a good fuck.

      Prostitutes exactly make the fantasy of being sexually desirable by another person more real by having a real person present during the sex act. And in the case of men going to female prostitutes, more than that; as many a story of a prostitute attests – sadly, even in places where prostitution is legal, I cannot for the life of me remember any extensive studies that exist beyond trying to show how bad prostitution is, so we’ll have to do with anecdotal evidence – men often come to prostitutes without even having sex with them, or if they do have sex with them, the talking to the prostitutes mostly about their stresses and problems, and prostitute simply supporting and “continuing to value you”, is as much if not more a draw than the sex. It seems then, that the reason a lot, if not a majority of men, seek a prostitute, is not merely to feel sexually desirable, but to feel, however illusionary and briefly, valued as a complete human being, period.

      PUAs? Seriously? Game is one giant racket to convince women to find you sexually attractive – even if it means they’re only into the illusion and fake you you presented, instead of the actual real you. It is destroying yourself, just to get a moment of the holy grail – feeling sexually desirable by having sex with a person.

    • JGteMolder

      Prostitution is nothing but making the fantasy that one is sexually desirable more real by getting an actual real person to play a part in that fantasy. Considering I don’t know of any intensive studies into prostitution and the people making use of it without the intent of showing how bad it is, we’ll have to make do with anecdotal evident, but prostitutes have said that men sometimes do not even want sex, just the ability to talk about stresses, nothing at all, or weakness, and sometimes just being held. When sex is part of the transaction; the other aspects are more often than not a part of it. As such, men, if not a vast majority of them, go to prostitutes beyond merely to feel sexually desirable, but to feel like a complete human being with the value thereof, period.

      PUA is nothing but a racket to give you the illusion of sexual desirability. What makes you feel more sexually desirable than having not one, not two but whole slews of people find you sexually desirable enough they had sex with you? And they are willing to destroy their own identity and self-worth to achieve this; how important is sexual desirability then?

      Masturbation is accompanied by fantasy; I can think of no fantasy of mine where a woman is not in some way desiring of sex, sexually desiring me. Even those who have rape fantasies – raping, not getting rape – are ultimately about being sexually desirable. None of these are about violently and brutally taking something against another’s will (just like getting raped is not about a rapist violently and brutally taking something against your will but about how sexual desirable you are), in the fantasies, overpowering the “victim” without doing harm, the “rapist” is so sexually desirable that the “victim” does not consider his or herself victimized, but that it was just a really good sexual encounter.

  • http://www.wildmanproject.ca BrianC

    TyphonBlue,

    I know I’ve only just introduced myself on Genderratic, and you have history with the involved parties, but I am having a really Orwellian moment reading the comments on Genderratic’s “MALE DISPOSABILITY – Mary P. Koss Influencing a government Entity to Erase Male Victims of Rape” that are aimed at discussing this article. I would like to parse it out.

    I’ve read “How to Stop Rape” three times now, and I can’t see where ‘Clarence’ or ‘Daisy Deadhead’ are getting this interpretation that you have said all rape victims are necessarily rapists. In fact I would say you pretty clearly eliminated the possibility of this interpretation in the paragraph reading:

    “Yet despite being sexually violated, only a fraction of these boys go on to abuse! That’s how resistant to raping the average male human is; even the most effective method of training a boy to become a rapist—by raping him–is only effective for one out of every ten boys. “

    I wanted to thank you for the latter sentences of that paragraph, by the way. As a man who has survived sexual assault, to hear someone speak well of those of us who have been so harmed and chosen not to spread the pain around means more than I can clearly articulate.

    They seem to be cherry-picking arguments from the last paragraph only, ones which simply don’t follow the logic as I understand it. As far as I can tell your paragraph, unpacked into logical arguments suggests that:

    1. There is a high incidence of sexual violence perpetrated by females on campuses.

    2. That a portion males who have been the target of sexual violence on campus also tend to be the perpetrators of sexual violence against women on campus.

    3. There is also a suspected under-reporting of sexual violence committed against females on campus.

    4. It is plausible, therefore, that a portion of the sexually violent females on campus have been both the perpetrators and victims of sexual violence.

    5. That in such cases, reporting the sexual violence that targeted them would lead to an investigation which would reveal them as perpetrators as well.

    6. This would disincentivize such offender / perpetrators from reporting their abuse.

    7. Properly framed this would suggest that _some_ of the female victims of sexual assault on campus are _likely_ to _also_ be perpetrators of sexual assault, and therefore explain, _in part_ the under-reporting of on-campus rape.

    8. This may also suggest a culture of mutual rape, cyclical sexual violence, or a form of semi-consentual mutual rape evolving out of the hookup culture at Universities in North America.

    Am I right in this reading? Are these two commentators (along with all the ‘gleeful feminists’ they describe) being deliberately obtuse, emotive, and intellectually dishonest, or am I missing something?

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      Almost entirely.

      Except for this:

      “That in such cases, reporting the sexual violence that targeted them would lead to an investigation which would reveal them as perpetrators as well.”

      There would be multiple reasons why they’re disincentivized from reporting. The first reason is that they are adverse to identifying the behaviour they engage in as rape. They may also be adverse to identifying themselves as rape victims. Or they may feel the feminist framing is irrelevant to their lives.

      Grossman “on killing” talks about how engaging in atrocity can create a “group identity” in which people are bonded through abuse and avoid talking about it/recognizing it in mutual silence.

      • http://www.wildmanproject.ca BrianC

        Interesting. Is this a topic you will be exploring in more depth in the future? I would be curious to see more permutations of the concept.

  • Max Cade

    Obtuse, emotive, intellectually dishonest feminists? Surely not!

    • http://www.wildmanproject.ca BrianC

      Touche.

      I ask honestly because the individuals in question do not purport themselves to be gender ideologues per se.

      And perhaps Obtuse may be an understatement. There is a level of doublethink going on in their writing and behaviour that is literally hurting my brain. Thus why I ask. My mind is staggered by the discourse I am seeing.

      • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

        @ BrianC

        I’m now convinced they’re trolls.

        And after reading your post I realize I got sucked in because I was affording them too much good faith.

        With a bit of distance from that, I realize you’re right. Interpreting what I said the way any of them did is just simple bad faith.

        • http://www.wildmanproject.ca BrianC

          I suspected as much. I found something very dissonant between their stated motives and their actual behaviours from the latter part of the Koss study down.

          They used some pretty manipulative language to force you on the defensive, much of it geared towards trying to make you say things that could be further manipulated.

        • Near Earth Object

          I am only somewhat familiar with what is behind this conversation.
          Your reference to good and bad faith brought me to a halt and triggered some memories from the agency I worked at—R.F.I.C.

          Just thoughts…
          Thinking back, I was at the bottom of a vertical playing field.
          I was—willingly—confined by my personal values and they could do most anything they wanted—to win.
          I exercised good faith to maintain who I was and what I stood for. Were I to have compromised my value system, then I would have become just like them—evil unprincipled bastards!

          At AVfM, where we exercise good faith as a means of keeping our doors open to others who may be struggling with similar social forces and/or indecision, and may want to join us, we are at risk of encountering our opponents version of FTSU.

          At the end of the day, I do believe that our FTSU is bigger than their ftsu.

          I appreciate your work Asha, and that you are on this side of the field.

          • OneHundredPercentCotton

            That makes two of us.

  • Fredrik

    By normalizing rape, these posters do the opposite of what they intend. They empower rapists and disempower emotionally healthy men who would never rape. They promote a distorted, simplistic view of rape as an emergent property of maleness rather than an emergent property of sexual abuse.

    Minor quibble, but I think that it would be a reinforcing feedback loop of sexual abuse.

    An emergent property is something that “emerges” at the level of the system-as-a-whole, and is not found in component parts of the system. For example, it takes a fairly complex system to make a single pixel on your monitor, and yet it is not an image of anything. “Imageness” is a property that emerges in a metasystem of multiple pixels.

    Your other use would be correct. When a man is assembled, misandrists seem to see rapeyness as a property that just emerges naturally from the interactions of his component subsystems, without the need for a specifically rapey component.

    (Even if they consider penises inherently rapey, the rapeyness would still be an emergent property from cell differentiation and assembly into that particular organ. At some point of decomposition, whether organs or cells or molecules or atoms, you would eventually reach a level of no rapeyness at all, so it’s an emergent property somewhere.)

    As you demonstrate, rapeyness is better considered as a result of sexual abuse, which might also be a result of sexual abuse — a reinforcing feedback loop or “vicious cycle”.

    To go off on a tangent, there are also “virtuous cycles” of reinforcing feedback loops, such as a better-educated populace leading to higher standards of living leading to better education etc. There’s also counter-balancing feedback, such as how in a stable complex system, trying to change its state with brute force may result in violent pushback.

    To go on an even further tangent, contrary feedback is not just a philosophical principle in the way that Stefan Molyneaux talks about the use of force tending to achieve its opposite, but rather a causal factor of systemic stability. If you observe said stability, then you must logically expect that there are mechanisms in place that will push back against direct action.

    Anyway, sorry for the pedantry; but having studied systems science a little, the little distinctions matter to me. :)

    • Fredrik

      I must acknowledge that I’ve used the term “emergent property” on this site before, in a very sticky context that would not have made the meaning clear at all. There’s a question that I’ve had for a very long time, that no one has ever been able to answer to my satisfaction.

      People have personalities. Groups can exhibit behavior that you would not expect from the individuals performing the behavior, such as a child psychologist figuring out how to make toy advertisements produce more of a nag factor, just because she happens to work for an advertising firm.

      To what extent are the actions of a group attributable to the individual human components, and to what extent are they attributable to the group?

      Can an organization exhibit attributes that do not exist in its component humans? Is it possible that there is such a thing as a metaperson, with novel properties that emerge from the interaction of the group members?

      If metapeople exist, do they have metapersonalities? In particular, can the “personality” of the reified group as a whole have a disorder that is not present in its component human people, or (for example) must a sociopathic group have at least one sociopathic member to make it that way?

    • JGteMolder

      >As you demonstrate, rapeyness is better considered as
      >a result of sexual abuse, which might also be a result of
      >sexual abuse — a reinforcing feedback loop or “vicious
      >cycle”

      Not quite; one form of rapeyness is a result of sexual abuse, and very possibly just plain abuse.

      There have to be other forms of rapeyness that are not a result of being abused or raped themselves, for after all, if that were the ONLY cause, where did the first rapist come from?

      There was no rapist before him or her; therefor they themselves could not have suffered such abuse, thus should never have started, yet they started the raping cycle anyway.

      So, at least some rapists (and other abusers) must be around, that did not suffer the abuse; I believe the term for those is sociopaths.

  • paigefa

    A great article addressing the issues with our current popularized ideas about rape. That being said , just as others need to step back and use common sense, there are some truly nonsensical things in your argument. For example, if rape creates rapists, there should be many, many more female rapists than men.

    Obviously there is a correlation between gender and rape – more male rapists does not negate female rapists, but saying that rape creates rapists but only when men are raped implies there is another contributing factor. Similarly, areas/ nations that give more power to men have skyrocketing rape rates, and I do not believe that is because in those countries men are raped proportionally more – obviously most men enjoy consent, as do women, but we both also enjoy power and excercise mg it when we are taught that is is correct to do so. Looking at countries in Africa you will frequently find that yes, the average man is a rapist as a point of pride.

    Your solution also completely dodges the fact that rape is a contributing factor, not a cause. What about the other 50% of rapists that haven’t been raped? They are raping for some other reason. I don’t necessarily believe it to be rape culture, but clearly there is some social, economic, or physiological reason to rape outside of previous abuse, and that reason affects men much more than women.

    I have read some of the best articles ive ever come across about human rights on this site, but I have to admit that the hatemongering and blaming of feminists for all things bad in the world gets just as old on this side. Sometimes I feel like this site exists to bash an debase feminists more than to educate people on real solutions, which is a strong deterrent as a party seeking intelligent information.

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      “there should be many, many more female rapists than men.”

      Considering that our social narratives hide female rapists, this is actually possible.

      “Looking at countries in Africa you will frequently find that yes, the average man is a rapist as a point of pride.”

      In South Africa something like 3 out of 5 boys reveal that they are victims of child sexual abuse with the majority of the perpetrators being women.

      “What about the other 50% of rapists that haven’t been raped? They are raping for some other reason.”

      What 50% of rapists that haven’t been raped?

      The most difficult population to study is boys who have been sexually abused. The reason why is that men who have _documented case histories of child sexual abuse_ that is their sexual abuse was proven to have happened… only disclose that abuse 16% of the time on a survey instrument designed to capture it (this compared to 64% of women with documented case histories of child sexual abuse.)

      The fact that between 60-80% of surveyed rapists and sexually aggressive men disclose child sexual abuse is remarkable and likely an indication that the actual numbers are even higher.

      Regardless, to believe your theory that men rape without having been raped is to believe that men are somehow not human.

      I find that a repulsive belief.

  • http://kevin-wayne.blogspot.com Kevin

    Typon: Consider this one shared fa sho!

  • Ecclesiastes

    This is … silly.

    Tragedy overdone is farce.

    I understand participating on this thread as comfort to a rape victim, appearing to earnestly want to address the problem, but there just isn’t enough science here to do anything except extrapolate unscientifically.

    While the cited study does give hope of finding a, not a cause but a contributing fount, for Legitimate Rape and even justification for money to be spent on further investigation, there honestly isn’t enough information to do more than gossip.

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      “but there just isn’t enough science here to do anything except extrapolate unscientifically.”

      The reality is that feminist interventions have not been proven to be effective at all.

      The assertion that rapists are made by abuse is not controversial in psychology. In fact that’s why the study I cite only surveyed boys with case histories of child sexual abuse to uncover additional factors to developing abusive behaviour.

      Additional factors.

      If the consensus was that abuse wasn’t cyclical, than this study would be less than useless because it arbitrarily limited itself to abused boys.

  • http://gravatar.com/rigorist The Rigorist

    Typhon, lack of controversy isn’t evidence. One method’s failure doesn’t tell you which one will succeed. There just isn’t enough here to go on.

    “Ready. Shoot. Aim.” is not a good plan.

    We have to ask better questions. We need to collect additional data. Bitching won’t get it done.

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      I don’t think you understand what I mean by not controversial. That mean’s it is an established fact upon which other hypothesis are hung.

      How do you “collect additional data” when the people collecting the data are pushing an agenda? How do you ask “better questions” when people pushing an agenda are the ones deciding which questions to ask?

      Good luck getting around that roadblock without ever recognizing it exists.

  • http://gravatar.com/rigorist The Rigorist

    I know fully what the “roadblock” is.

    I am suggesting that you pile your money up and get research done.

    Geez. What a crybaby. “Nobody will do my research for me!”

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      What money?

      • http://hyperskeptical.wordpress.com robertcrayle

        How much would you like?
        (Unfortunately, research is too often ranked on a monetary scale; it allows bad research to hide behind an aura of “efficiency”).

        • http://gravatar.com/rigorist The Rigorist

          Bob, forget it.

          I get a negative vote every time I post something about addressing the problem and Typhonblue gets an up tick every time she stands up for doing nothing and bitching.

          Bitching won. Let it go.

          • Turbo

            Who is the crybaby now ? “All these bad people gave me a down vote”

        • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

          If you want to fund research, I wouldn’t mind a budget of around 1.5$ million to do a survey based on the CST2.

          Minus all the feminist tinkering to attempt to get the results they want.

          http://www.genderratic.com/p/2943/mary-koss-the-corruption-continues-manboobz-style/

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            But then again… if you have 1.5 million to do a survey, maybe that money would be better off going to Kristina’s effort to get the only shelter for men off the ground in Canada.

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            Wait. That 1.5 million could also go a long way to funding the DV helpline for men and women!

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            And now that I think about it, what about all those poor fathers who can’t afford the legal fees to fight to be in their children’s lives. I think that 1.5 million could really do some good there.

          • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

            On second thought, maybe the best use of those funds is to lobby government to change family law to a presumption of joint physical custody.

            Or we could create a series of ads to bring awareness to male victims of domestic violence and rape.

            Or how about we found a help line for suicidal men? Or a database for estranged fathers to try and eventually have contact with their children? Or how about men’s rights campus groups on campuses around the country?

            I think the group proposing a white house committee on men and boys could really use some dough to get their work going.

            And how about some money for Mike Buchanan and his political efforts to get the issues of men and boys on the radar in Britain? I bet he could really use a shot of funds to help him out.

            Or maybe…

          • http://hyperskeptical.wordpress.com robertcrayle

            A strange thought occurs…

            Just thinking about society right now, it seems we have never lived at a time where there has ever been more money – raw cash – in existence than right now.
            And yet there is so much want for so many worthwhile endeavours and suddenly, no money at all for it.

            Typhon, you’re right – our society is a hollow joke.

  • kali

    I do believe that ‘rape’ is normal in the sense that it’s a sex strategy that can be deployed by most males if they really want to have sex, but can’t get it by other means.

    The reason most men don’t do it is not because they don’t want to, it’s because the fear of getting caught (what will my family think of me/jail time). If there were no repercussions at all (not from cops, not from the victims family), most men would forcefully engage these females.

    I thought in wartimes, lots of men (majority?) rapes women because they don’t fear any repercussion.

    and an anology: if I asked you if you would steal a cd from wallmart, you would say no. “ofcourse not, i’m not a thief”.
    But since you can easily download music without any fear of repercussion, almost every downloads (aka steals).

    • http://www.genderratic.com typhonblue

      … And that’s all folks!

    • Near Earth Object

      “most males” this … “most men” that … you are out of fucking order in using the word “most” when a better fit might be ‘some’.

      Think about it!

    • Turbo

      I am sure there are plenty of websites that encourage people like you to project your sexual fantasies.

      This is not one of them. Now go away !!

    • http://hyperskeptical.wordpress.com robertcrayle

      I don’t think your name is actually kali, so I’ll have a go at guessing…is it either Thomas Hobbe or Thomas Carlyle?

    • J Galt

      by your logic the real problem regarding rape is that pussy is over priced and leads to illegal uploading. Seems there might be a different strategy to apply to the problem in your universe.

  • http://gravatar.com/rigorist The Rigorist

    Thank you, Kali, for reminding me of one of the reasons I really don’t care about rape anymore.

    Thank you, Typhonblue, for giving me a NEW reason not to care about rape anymore.

    Remember, guys, any co-ed embarrassed at having drunk fucked a nerd is just as “legitimately” raped as a 16 year old beaten and raped behind a garage. Rape is rape!

    • Near Earth Object

      That is a very Rigorist Mortist position you have taken there.

      Now sudden moves now—you’ll snap!

  • http://gravatar.com/rigorist The Rigorist

    NEO,

    Respectively,

    1) Men will always be guilty
    2) Women really don’t about why
    3) Rape is whatever she says it is and it happened whenever she says it did.

    So, whatever.

    • Near Earth Object

      “1) Men will always be guilty”

      No. Some men. Not “men”. Not ‘all’ men.

      “2) Women really don’t about why”

      Not sure what you mean here.

      “3) Rape is whatever she says it is and it happened whenever she says it did.”

      THIS is what needs to STOP. ASAP

  • http://gravatar.com/rigorist The Rigorist

    NEO,

    You’re dreaming.

    Kali has only expressed the common knowledge of the day.

    Typhonblue is undoubtably the MOST interested woman on the issue of how rape could be prevented that I have ever seen, and she folds up like a cheap beach chair when there is any work to be done. Any solution would take a majority of women behind the effort, and – face it – Typhonblue is a glorious abberation.

    Rep. Akins was voted out of office for disagreeing with my third point.

    So I got tens of thousands of reasons to support my position, including the last 50 years of American history. Just what have you got? Hope?

    Wake up and grow up. Protect your daughters yourself and screw the rest. This is the world that women have demanded. Let them have it.

    • http://hyperskeptical.wordpress.com robertcrayle

      That’s right! Fuck them niggers!
      Oh, wait, that was 100 years ago…
      Screw them jews!
      That was eighty years ago…
      Has it occured to you that the most powerful thing on a societal scale is “loudly sitting and talking?”
      Civilisation can be equated to a single property: language. Threat narratives (and by extension, all ideologies) reduce language to propaganda and thereby shut civilisation down to a standstill. Talking and writing to free the language up is the most important and most difficult step. It is the very definition of a thankless public service. Be proud to be part of it.

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      Folks up like a cheap beach chair when there’s work to be done? Are you insane? No offense but her work is fucking enormous. What’s yours by comparison?

      Cheap shots at contributors here who’ve put in thousands of hours of work are out of line. Seriously. I know the work she’s done, publicly and non-publicly, and I would bet a hefty portion of my next paycheck it dwarfs your own, and most people’s for that matter. And that’s just a factual analysis based on personal observation.

    • Near Earth Object

      You’re dreaming.
      > > Happy are those who dream dreams and are willing to pay the price to make them come true.

      Kali has only expressed the common knowledge of the day.
      >> More like he has expressed an opinion which you agree with.
      >> What constitutes “knowledge” in your book, my epistemological deficient friend?

      Typhonblue is undoubtably the MOST interested woman on the issue of how rape could be prevented that I have ever seen, and she folds up like a cheap beach chair when there is any work to be done. Any solution would take a majority of women behind the effort, and – face it – Typhonblue is a glorious abberation.
      >> Whose work? Yours?
      >> She’s doing wonderfully and will continue to do so, after you opt out.

      Rep. Akins was voted out of office for disagreeing with my third point.
      >> Oh, there was a bit more to it than what you claim here.

      So I got tens of thousands of reasons to support my position, including the last 50 years of American history. Just what have you got? Hope?
      >> You exaggerate of course. That’s not very honest of you.
      >> I have most everything before the 50 years you speak of.
      >> Social pendulums have a way of going back and forth. Think: Revitalization Movements (shhh).
      >> I like hope. Hope floats, or haven’t you heard. When did you lose your hope and take full-time custody of apathy?

      Wake up and grow up.
      >> Fuck Off. Do it fast. Do it hard.
      Protect your daughters yourself and screw the rest.
      >> Do you classify yourself as a ‘free rider’, ‘social loafer’, or both?
      This is the world that women have demanded. Let them have it.
      >> All women? Some women? A minority of women?
      >> Not while I share this planet with them.
      >> Not on my watch.

      (extends open hand, offers The Rigidist a Red Pill)

    • Turbo

      I think you are an antagonistic shit stirrer with a giant chip on your shoulder.

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

      Your morose fatalism is neither as cutting-edge nor as impressive as you think it is. Go share your wisdom with the other all knowing sages, where you can sit together and nod soberly in unison over your various dire predictions and hopeless pronouncements.

      We are working steadily and patiently, to change our lives and to change the lives of anyone we can reach, the numbers of which are growing exponentially. You are underfoot.

    • http://kevin-wayne.blogspot.com Kevin

      You are SO full of shit. Typhon’s recent videos on Threat Narrative will make you think. They did me, anyway. For a lot of people, that’s the medicine we need right now.

      • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

        Yes he is.

  • http://gravatar.com/rigorist Ecclesiastes

    Bob,

    I don’t remember the “niggers” demanding to be slaves.

    What are you talking about?

    • http://hyperskeptical.wordpress.com robertcrayle

      Only that in a threat narrative ideology, indifference to the target group is engineered purely through language – as there is seldom much evidence of any underlying reality. 100 years ago, slavery was illegal in first world countries. The social problems of a segregated community could be ignored simply because there existed no united language of protest – people remained passive largely because of angered confusion. A fundamental need is to return the language to the citizenry, not to hunker down and turtle while saying “it’s hopeless”. Someone who has access to that source of language (the MHRM) has no excuse to stay silent.

  • http://gravatar.com/rigorist Ecclesiastes

    Well, Bob, I happen to be IN the target group, so I don’t see you characterization as applicable. I certainly don’t remember any “niggers” saying “Screw the niggers.”

    Dean, I suggested more research to support her point, she first complained there was no money and then thought of at least 6 other things she’d rather spend it on even if she did. I’m not going to take her research any more seriously than she does, K?

    Yes, she’s wonderful and even inspirational, but I’m not going to be any nicer to her when she waffles than I would a man.

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

      Nice of you to stop by, Ecclesiastes.
      Thanks for the non sequitors. Or maybe straw men?

    • http://hyperskeptical.wordpress.com robertcrayle

      They weren’t. They just had no common language to unite them. People like The Rigorist was saying screw them – not out of malice, but most confused indifference. Sort of like “I can’t untie the knots, so I’ll just take care of me and mine”. This attitude is beyond callous, it’s repulsive, particularly in someone has identified a root cause of the problem and has access to the most important weapon of the solution – the most likely approximation of the truth.

  • http://gravatar.com/rigorist Ecclesiastes

    Actually, I remember that when Blacks knew they would be quickly accused of raping White women, their response was to avoid White women, and let the White people figure out their own rape problems. I am suggesting no different.

    • http://hyperskeptical.wordpress.com robertcrayle

      Martin Luther King: “I have a dream – that every black person fuck off to their own little corner and you honkies figure this shit out, yo!”

      Your comments thus far indicate a very simple picture of you – the worst kind of pseudo-cynical, underming moral coward who whines that nothing will improve and we should just stop, even though I’ve told you the most fundamental thing to do and all you can do is complain it hasn’t happened yet and thus never will.

      • http://gravatar.com/rigorist Ecclesiastes

        Robert,

        Rev. King, in his own analogy, presented the check written by Thomas Jefferson and it had be returned NSF.

        Tell me me the name of woman who has written that check to men, a woman all other women revere, and I’ll swallow your imagery.

        • http://hyperskeptical.wordpress.com robertcrayle

          Get back to me at that stage, and I’ll show you.
          In the meantime we are not going to stop just because it’s too much for you. You have already surrendered to the inevitable. You are as much a victim of ideology as is possible to imagine. Getting cranky at people who choose not to be passive is as arrogant as me insisting you should do…well, anything other than what you choose to do for yourself.

          For everyone else, look up “Pnyx” in Ancient Greece. That was a place (not just a landmark) once. It has been recreated with the Internet. Now go forth and inherit the language – it’s been in solitary confinement too long.

  • http://gravatar.com/rigorist Ecclesiastes

    I switched browsers and the handle came up different. Rigorist and Ecclesiastes are one in the same. Any appearance of sock-puppetry is my error.

  • http://gravatar.com/rigorist Ecclesiastes

    Seems everybody here has a problem with my pessimism.

    My son is 28. Any of y’all have any real evidence or historical precident to suggest men’s situation is going to improve in his lifetime? Or have the lot of you only got NEO’s hope?

    • Bombay

      The narrative has recently changed from no acknowledgement to feminism helps men too. I expect this evolution to continue.

      The MHRM is beginning to become coordinated internationally.

      The traffic on MHRM sites is growing exponentially.

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

      Considering how much men’s status has changed over the last 50 years I’d say the position is rather fluid. One thing we know for certain though, is that if we do nothing, men’s situation won’t improve even in your grandkids’ lifetimes. We don’t expect guarantees, we just do what we can while dodging potshots from the peanut gallery.

    • http://hyperskeptical.wordpress.com robertcrayle

      Possibly a look at Ancient Greece?
      And the idea that you may be _regaining_ a personal status you haven’t had for nearly 2500 years?

    • Turbo

      I don’t give a shit about your pessimism, you are entitled to be as pessimistic as you like.

      It’s your egotistical attitude I have a problem with.

      No one on this website here owes you a thing, and you have contributed nothing here except a high and mighty attitude and abuse.

      So why don’t y’all lose the attitude.

    • Bombay

      A person either cares about others or they do not. It is not about hope.

    • http://gravatar.com/jgtemolder J.G. te Molder

      Damn. What a world this would have been, if 50 years ago, 90% feminists said, “Do you actually think we’ll succeed in stripping men of their presumption of innocence, of demonizing them to the point that society will blame him for everything while handing us all their money, let alone killing 90% of them in our daughters’ lifetimes, let alone our own?” and then threw up their arms and went home. Do you think all the misandric, stripping men of their rights bullshit we’ve seen in especially the past decade and a half, would have happened? Hell, no.

      You see; those folks, and thus using them for their own purposes weren’t so short sighted and needing immediate gratification. No. They said; it’s gonna take us decades, multiple lifetimes perhaps, and we’re going to do it.

      The rest of us are like them. Decades, our lifetimes, our sons lifetimes, we knew and know it might take that long. It might even take a 1,000, but we’re going to do it. We’re not throwing our hands in the air and whining that all take too long, so I’m just going to go home and give up, no, we’re going to do it, even if it takes us 10,000 years.

      And we’ll do activism, and we’ll talk to people, and we’ll try to convince them. If we succeed with just one person, all of us; and if that one person joining us means instead of 10,000 years, it’ll take us 9,999 years, 364 days, 23 hours and 59 minutes; a whopping one minute bonus; we’ll do it. It may be just one minute less of suffering through this bullshit for our descendants, well, it will still be one minute less.

      We’re in this for the long haul, pal, and if you are indeed so destroyed, and so in need of instant gratification in order to do anything but throw up your arms and go home; well go do exactly that and get out of our way. We’ve got enough on our plate fighting all of society; having to deal with people so narcissistic they can’t except other people not given up in the same way and need to try and prove their point by trying to turn everyone into clones of themselves, means we’ll be losing some time. And every minute we shave off of 10,000 figure is one shave off.

  • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

    You’ve been around for a while and some of us are familiar with your personal attitude toward women, Ecclesiastes, and you will not spew that garbage on this site. You’re out.

  • http://www.socialsweetspot.com K

    So let me clarify – your answer to men not raping women (or children) anymore is to blame women and stop talking about human trafficking statistics? Al righty then – guessing you are not going to go down in history as a brilliant thinker or problem solver. You go GIRL – bawhahahahaaaa!

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      What’s your answer to women raping men and children?

      • lamartin

        see my comment below, but as rude and obnoxious as the above commenter is, your thesis is that women rapists are the cause of male rapists, which is simply not true or helpful.

        • JGteMolder

          >Because what I got from it was: #1feminists are wrong,
          >#2 men are not to blame for rape because #3 rapists
          >have been raped by women.

          Men are not to blame, because men do not rape; rapists rape, both male and female ones. It also means that women aren’t to blame either.

          Rapists, the vast majority of them, have been in some way abused while they were children, most of the time sexually, and even raped.

          >I’m interested because I feel compassionate towards
          >men and think that if rape is endemic, there must be an
          >endemic social issue that is at the heart of it.

          There is; most notably the complete lack of a care of what happens to boys at the hands of women when they grow up. Indeed, if adult woman in her thirties abuses a young teen and gets herself pregnant, the boy is made to pay child support. Now there’s a rapist waiting to emerge. That level of abuse and complete lacking of caring by an entire society; that kind of pain and horror will fester, almost certainly turn to hatred, and there you go.

          >Finally, “rape culture” refers to the kind of widespread
          >acceptance of such phrases as “easy rape” and
          >“legitimate rape”, which- I think- are non-gender-
          >specific and I think the phrase is still applicable….

          Those phrases are completely unacceptable in our society… unless the victim is a man.

    • J Galt

      Myopia is hardly a clarification. But it does make it easier to locate your navel. Call me flighty, call me self involved but narrowing the indicators of rape to a self preferential narrative exclusive of reality is a form of human trafficking. But the important point is to not peddle my flesh.

      Mmmm “K”

  • lamartin

    I am interested in what exactly the message of this article is supposed to be: what is the takeaway.
    Because what I got from it was: #1feminists are wrong, #2 men are not to blame for rape because #3 rapists have been raped by women.
    I know that all rapists have not been sexually molested, and especially not all exclusively by women.
    I’m interested because I feel compassionate towards men and think that if rape is endemic, there must be an endemic social issue that is at the heart of it. However, taking the stance of “feminists are wrong and perpetuating the problem” seems to be as problematic as outright blaming men.
    Finally, “rape culture” refers to the kind of widespread acceptance of such phrases as “easy rape” and “legitimate rape”, which- I think- are non-gender-specific and I think the phrase is still applicable….
    Interested in learning more, please do respond!

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      If that is what you concluded from reading this, I doubt any additional assistance will help your comprehension.

      • lamartin

        well, I did read it and didn’t understand how this could be the takeaway so rather than assuming it was, I asked what it was supposed to be. but, you know, doubt away…

    • J Galt

      “I’m interested because I feel compassionate towards men..”

      Just curious do you always negotiate your morality and ethics by “feeling compassion.”

      • lamartin

        don’t know how to answer this question. I didn’t say I navigate every issue from the point of compassion_ although that doesn’t seem like a bad way to do things. I was explaining that I wasn’t coming from a place of blaming men but wanting to better understand the intentions of the article.

    • RevSpinnaker

      First, the term “rape culture” was coined by a black man to describe the prison underworld. It was hijacked by feminists. The notion that “#1 feminists are wrong and perpetuating the problem” is the understatement of the new century.

      I was on the forefront of men speaking up about child sexual abuse of boys back in the 80’s. At the time feminists were saying men deserved to be raped as children because they were part of “the white male system.” “Now you know how it feels,” I was told. Your point ,”#2 men are not to blame for rape because…” was said where? Citing a prevelent cause

  • mhub

    This article does have a lot of good information. Men who are sexually abused by women often go on to rape because it instills a need to gain control that was taken from them by the woman. I also think there’s another dimension to it: society, itself, forces boys into sexually abusive situations because it does not allow boys to say that sometimes they don’t like it when a woman wants sex from them. Boys and men are not allowed to require consent. When that is how things are, they aren’t going to respect a woman’s need for consent – we can only appreciate giving to others what we can have ourselves. If society says I have to put out whenever a woman wants sex from me, otherwise I’m a worthless pussy, then I’m going to think that a woman has to put out, too, under the same conditions. That frustration leads to rape. However, this change won’t or can’t come from feminists. This is a situation where men have to back down on their ideas of what boys and men should do sexually and start accepting each individual for what they are up for. Promoting male promiscuity and the macho image and not being supportive of boys and men who don’t fit that model or who personally don’t want to be put in certain sexual situations is what I think they mean by rape culture. And I do think that mentality does lead to rape.