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Some weekend thoughts and two bullies

Just a note to wish everyone a good weekend. It has been a very busy week for the men’s movement, and for AVfM in particular. We have every reason to believe that next week will be even busier, as the backlash for publicly profiling the violent ideologues at the University of Toronto will likely pick up a little steam.

I was interviewed by Sarah Del Giallo of the National Post yesterday regarding the series of articles we have run. One of the questions she posed was more of an observation that the people at U of T we have profiled were all women. I explained, quite honestly, that we dealt with the information that came in to us as it happened, and that as our ongoing investigation uncovers the identities of men engaged in illegal activity at that protest, we will cheerfully give them their due attention on this website.

Some of that information has started to come in. But as always we want to appeal directly to readers to add to the portfolio with whatever information you can gather that we can confirm as accurate.

In that spirit, I offer you this snip from the now viral video of the event.

It is a picture, courtesy of our friend Scatmaster, that really does say 1000 words. The man who you see from the back is the one that was trying to attend the lecture to find some peace with the fact that two of his male friends had committed suicide within a very short period of time. Note the looks on the faces of the men blocking his way. Note the intimidation and threatening posture of both of them.

They are blocking his free entrance through a doorway. Their action is illegal, and in my personal opinion, cowardly and despicable.

And in the video you can see the gleeful taunting and clapping of the already identified Vanja Krajina as the dejected young man is lead away from the thugs by police.

These are two white knights acting as feminist muscle against a man for the egregious offense of wanting closure on his grief and loss.

These are precisely the deplorable type of individuals who need to be publicly named and shamed for their actions.

My wish for everyone’s good weekend was sincere, but there is obviously still much to do.

  • Ray

    Congratulations on the interview, Mr. Elam.

    The guy in the photo (left) might temporarily be described described as “Glaring Bad-Hair Dude,” the guy on the right, “The Scowler.”

    • jesus_marley

      How about Scowly the rat faced hipster?

  • Laddition

    “One of the questions she posed was more of an observation that the people at U of T we have profiled were all women”

    yeah, because it has to misogyny when it’s all women shamed, right?

    I’m sure that if you’d only named men, she wouldn’t have said a word…or maybe I’m just too cynical?


  • O’Sullivan

    These men are just as guilty and bigoted as the women they support, perhaps even worse. We should not ignore what they have done. They should all be ousted like the bigots they are, regardless if they are male or female.

    I’ve sometimes said that the biggest obstacle the MRM must overcome is men themselves. Feminists can whine and scream all they want, but if men choose not to listen to them or support them, they will have no power.
    Unfortunately, most men are apathetic to their own rights at best, or actively trying to destroy them at worst.

    • O’Sullivan

      Wow, no idea why this is in three parts.

      • Paul Elam

        It has been corrected.

        • JJ

          What happened to the article that you deleted?

          Was it something I said? LOL

          • Paul Elam

            It was an article inadvertently approved and posted. I removed it. That is all.

        • O’Sullivan

          Thanks, Paul!

        • JJ

          Well; I loved it. Hope you put it back! LOL

  • Greg Canning

    We show no preference for the sex of gender ideologues here, be your name Flood, Fisher, Flynn, Schwyzer, or Maricotte, Valenti, Ford, or Krajina is no matter.

    If you are a bigot supporting systemic discrimination based on sex and particularly if you do it through, dishonesty, misrepresentation, advocacy research or good old fashioned hatred and denial of civil and human rights as in the case of the 2 men above, you can expect to have your game exposed here for all to see.

  • malcolm

    It was natural of Sarah Del Giallo to ask that question, after all it’s a common perception that MRA’s are misogynists, so it’s par for the course.

    It’s a bit of a paradox, but I believe that the shriller feminists become about our activities, the closer we are hitting home with regular folk. As long as the movement stays true to its stated goals it will grow.

    Congratulations on the National Post exposure, I’m sure most Americans will be unaware of what a BIG deal that is, but Canadians will know. It is the largest newspaper that has nationwide distribution. This is really very very big mainstream media exposure up here, so big kudos to you Paul.

    Oh and the ladies can all sleep safely at night knowing that Captain Mangina is staring down the bad guys. What a complete clown. Without his posse around him he wouldn’t have the nerve to stand in that man’s way. Looks like he needs to go back to his dorm for another bong hit.

    • Paul Elam

      Just for the record, I think it was a fair question to ask. I don’t mind journalists doing their jobs, especially as I have nothing to hide.

      • Cultural_Expat

        I hope the interview will be reported fairly. I personally would not allow myself to be interviewed by any major media without asking and receiving permission that the interview be recorded in its entirety.

        Whenever i read major media, or woman’s studies articles (with their perpetual redefinition of language, terms and meaning), jezebels broad and unspecific man hatin article, and finally…of course, how can i forget, my lovely multipage, 30k dollar divorce judgement and subsequent court orders – from almost 2 decades ago -without thinking of this song:

        • Strangled

          I think we stand a good chance in the National Post. Their columnist Barbara Kay, who has been with the paper since it was created, is amongst the most outspoken MRAs in the media. If it’s a hit piece, we should cc Barbara on our replies; she will be a willing audience.

      • OneHundredPercentCotton

        It might be a “fair” question, but I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot they would be concerned if only male MRAs were outted.

        • Paul Elam

          I asked her a question or two as well. :)

  • yinyangbalance

    When feminism turns on these two men, I hope they will see feminism for what it is. This is where I come from, if something like this happened on my campus when I was in school, I would have been one of the ‘white knights’. These type of men are those whose selfesteem is dependent on what overberring and femdom females want and think. They are out to ‘prove’ themselves at their own cost and everyone else’s. How they came to be this way is also an issue which is tied to the increasingly high suicide rate of men.

    • The Real Peterman

      Yes, wait until they get married and their wife socks them with a divorce. “Half my salary AND my house? Uh, maybe those MRAs weren’t so bad after all!”

  • harrywoodape

    The National Post? This should be interesting. I hope there is a record of the full interview after they publish whatever hatchet piece they do. They craft their news.

  • Tawil

    Like others on this forum I was hoping to profile the identities of these two males from the protest along with, or even before the females, but after much searching could find no information about them (yet). The few females were much easier to gather information on because they are more heavy users of social networking media like facebook and Twitter… thier gossip was easily found.

    I’ll keep searching for info about these more secretive males… will send anything through that I find.

  • harrywoodape

    Just read this. My reaction is that this is absolutely great advertising for the MRM. Really! It is such an awesomely biased and nasty, full of lies and bullshit. It is great! It also invited people to check out this evil website. Awesome. Thank you feminism!

    “Feminism has the ball! Now the MRM asks them to share the ball! Feminism gets angry and tried to foul the MRM! Feminism attacks the referee! The incident I’d confirmed for the entire world via instant replay! Feminism then gets extremely angry and kicks the ball into their own goal!”

    • cvar

      If you’re going to condemn CAFE for linking to AVfM and claim that is an endorsement(even if they say otherwise), you shouldn’t have so many links to AVfM in your main article. It begs the question; does this author endorse AVfM despite his critical post?

      Perhaps his readers should click those links and read for themselves this site he’s clearly endorsing by linking to. That’d be swell.

  • scatmaster

    Interesting when I approached Barbara Kay ( as Paul knows) her response via email to me was that she felt the story was that the story was too old. Seems her fellow journalist at the NP and the editors do not agree.
    I have been searching their website but have been unable to find the story perhaps it will be in Sunday’s edition. Purgatory but at least it will hopefully be there.

    Her byline is in the Toronto section of the newspaper.
    Well done Paul!!!

    • Tim Legere


      Here is Ms. Kay’s response to me on December 5th when I asked if she was going to cover the protest at U of T.

      Thanks for writing. I know and use Farrell’s work. I have great respect for him. The protesters are stupid and irrational. I saw the video at the time of the lecture. I didn’t write about it because I didn’t want to give publicity to idiots. Barb

      • Strangled

        That leaves us with the perfect riposte should it be a hit piece. Surely she won’t be “giving publicity to idiots” if the idiots are the National Post itself?

      • scatmaster

        Seems as if we got the same type of reply except mine was based on it was “old news”. As I said it seems one of her colleagues does not think so and I am sure her editors have given her the go ahead.

  • Krazie316

    I wish they would have tried to block my path……….

    • JinnBottle

      Krazie – By your statement I can make a very educated guess as to how you *feel*, and would have felt at the actual situation – mainly because I can relate, and I did upvote you.

      Still, I think the “reply” of the event’s attendee was more powerful than anything I (or you?) would have reacted with. He was obviously close to tears when interviewed later; and tho your and my fury at those 2 angry androids is emotionally honest, I think the actual victim’s response is that, but more effective in that it will be perceived as insightful and brave in its vulnerability, rather than merely reactive. (I don’t even like to *picture* what a PR disaster *my* reaction would have been!) : /

      • Steve_85

        I agree with JinnBottle. I know exactly what my response would have been and I’m glad I wasn’t there for that exact reason. Same reason I’m glad Krazie316 and Jinn weren’t there.

        I won’t take shit like that from anyone, and I don’t think anyone should have to… but this was a much better result.

    • The Evil Weasel

      I agree 100%. I would just love to show up a couple of manginas for getting in my face.

  • TheMoralGodless

    The people who were blocked from attending this event are gentle souls with more self-control than I, because I would have lost my voice screaming at these petty tyrants.

  • Dean Esmay

    “Outed” in what way? She’s got every right to spout her dishonest and bigoted shit, as does the guy whose article she’s commenting on. The aggressive ignorance that defines all bigotry drips from both of them, there is no honest attempt at discussion of the issues, as we have found for years to be true on these things (which is why we started getting rude). Even when we tried to ask for a debate what did they do? They issued threats and harassment against a self-described feminist who was willing to debate us and “mysteriously” the guy who offered to host the debate suddenly got fired. That’s how these thugs operate.

    So let them squawk. No one called for any violence and they know it. So all they can do is keep poisoning the well, which is what hatemongers do best.

  • Raven01

    Any bets she refuses to publish this?
    “Now, now, the SPLC has ADMITTED that they over-stated the case and MRA are not a hate group, yet you link to an old articles purporting this to be the case. Do I need to research the rest to show the fake info you pretend is real?

    Girls were falling behind and not doing well in school and we re-acted. Admirably I would say in helping girls to do better, now the case is reversed and it is “hate speech” to suggest that we take the same steps and offer the same help to boys we did to girls.
    Your stance is morally untenable and quite frankly sickens me.
    If you represent the “new feminism” then count me out and paint me with the fake neck-beard, basement dwelling MRA brush because after reading for myself instead of taking others words for it I can say these people have the moral high ground.”

    • cvar

      She published that and demanded a link. I bet she doesn’t publish any further responses from you. That way it looks like you couldn’t do it and fled into the internet.

      • Raven01

        I got a few more through but now I bet she wants to delete the entire exchange after this one.

        A cult?
        No, I am simply pointing out that some “feminists” aren’t feminists at all but instead ardent supporters of human rights and equality before the law for everyone. And thus far, the MRM is beating feminism hands down in “walking the walk” instead of just “talking the talk”.

        “All the article you link to here does is reinforce that. Let me explain something to you. Anger from minority groups towards groups who have oppressed and abused and exploited them for centuries is justified”
        Sigh, women are not now nor have ever been a “minority. Also, minority or majority status should have zero bearing on whether or not anger is justifiable or not. Either a fellow human has been wronged or they have not.

        “This is why white pride groups are racist and psycho and the anti-racist activism done by people of colour are not. Because white people are not oppressed on a systemic level as a group.”
        This view is racist. The colour of any persons skin has no effect on whether or not what they say is racist, it is what they say that is or is not racist.
        Here is an example of equal racism to illustrate.
        White people are better than anyone else = Asian people are better than anyone else.
        See that? Both are equally incorrect and equally racist. If you don’t believe me pull out a dictionary.

        “Why must I “accept the “specific examples” found at radfemhub of feminists wishing to quite literally kill men and boys for being boys as representative of feminism”?”
        For the very same reason you expect others to buy your cartoonish caricature of the MRM.
        Oh, yes. And, because those nutjobs featured at the radfemhub are educators indoctrinating children while by their own admission fantasizing about killing the male children, they are political advisors, leaders in the feminist movement, feminist authors, lawyers and so on.

        “but MEN, like as a group, are not and never have been subject to exploitation and oppression.”
        You can make that claim with a straight face when YOU face a draft to front-line military service, when women falling to around the 40% of university students is cheered as a great victory(the US president and every major feminist group have done exactly this).

        ” but also, as pointed out by the SPLC IN THE ARTICLE YOU LINK TO, feminists don’t literally ‘hate’ men. ”
        Not exactly a reliable source when you consider that Athur Goldwag penned a couple articles flat out claiming MRA’s were members of a hate group only to later be forced to retract and the discovery that Radfemhub actually is one of the SPLC’s patrons. They aren’t going to bite the hand that feeds them now are they?

        I doubt you will have the integrity to post this, you’ve already stated that you fear an honest debate and attempt to paint it as “de-railing”.
        You should note that I addressed points you brought up in you OP and you subsequent comments in each of my comments so that is hardly even close to de-railing. It is offering a different view that you do not subscribe to and I have already learned that a very common feminist tactic to any dissent is to try to “gag” the source of dissent.
        Well, it will not work, the MRM grows daily while women are more and more likely to not self-identify as feminist.

  • Robert St. Estephe

    Psychotropic drugs and Big Pharma / FDA falsifications (including the autism epidemic and the link to vaccines, the “hoax” accusation/persecution of the British doctor connecting gastrointestinal disorders/autism to vaccines is now proven to be the real hoax) are big issues for 2013. New info is pouring out. The drugs are ultra-damaging. Boy-drugging must end.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      This is soooo scary. It seems trust in the medical profession is at an all time high when it should be at an all time low.

      My daughter is in a “high risk” pregnancy status right now, and they are drugging her, and zapping her…I can’t allow myself to really focus on the possible consequences.

      My older sister is a DES daughter and I have always had a very healthy distrust of doctors.

    • harrywoodape

      Drugging children (predominantly boys by far) is a really huge issue to me. The above link is to a psychiatrist of great prominence named Thomas Szaz and what he has to say. I agree with him.

  • Neapals

    “One of the questions she posed was more of an observation that the people at U of T we have profiled were all women.” A question like this always concerns me. It always seems to me when a question like that is asked; They are looking or an answer that they can spin too make it look like we are a group of misogynists. To me it seems like they have already made up their minds about us. They are just looking to confirm it.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      As I asked Paul – if the shoe was on the other foot, would they ask why feminists didn’t “out” female MRAs?

      Would they even expect it?

      • Kimski

        And if a female MRA were being interviewed, would they then ask her the same questions, to make her look like a mysogynist?

        Both are very valid questions, I’d sure like to hear the answers to.

  • gwallan

    This exchange WILL be deleted…

    MLM Says:
    December 14, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    “Farell is a men’s rights apologist who touts his former “feminist” credentials to act as the intellectual spokesperson of the MRA. He is the point person they trot out to to make Charles Murray, Bell Curve style arguments that obviously distort and misuse statistics, anecdotal evidence and historical record in defense of what are transparently specious and ahistorical notions that patriarchy is a myth not only now, but even in the past”

    This is a link to a 1977 Penthouse interview with Warren Farrell (by Philip Nobile) about the allegedly positive aspects of incest. (Huge trigger warning – it’s even worse than it sounds).


    Greg Allan Says:
    December 14, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    “This is a link to a 1977 Penthouse interview…”

    At which time Farrell was a feminist and informed by feminist ideology rather than any other. The ideas espoused are feminist in origin.


    Meghan Murphy Says:
    December 14, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    Farrell was NEVER a feminist. Ever. That is an outright lie and, just a warning, I will delete comments that state things that are not true, as per my comment policy.


    Greg Allan Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    December 14, 2012 at 10:00 pm

    Your assertion is contrary to the public record I’m afraid and therefore should be deleted under your own policy.

    • Wilf

      It think it was unfortunate that Farrell chose to do the interview in Penthouse especially as his work on his book was incomplete. This was/is a serious academic subject and was not appropriate to a magazine like Penthouse.

      There is a good reponse to Manboobz recent comments on Farrell on this site:!/2012/12/ive-seen-quotes-floating-around-about-dr.html

      I would like to see Farrell complete his book, and if no publisher is willing to publish it, then he should look to make it available as a pdf. As long as it remains unpublished, those with an agenda will continue to mis-represent it.

      • OneHundredPercentCotton

        Back then, Penthouse and Playboy were very respected news sources and prominent men’s magazines that frequently featured serious academic subjects.

        I always got my husband Playboy subscriptions for Christmas(his ex girlfriend was on the Feb 1973 cover so I never subscribed to Penthouse) – the old joke “I just read the articles” was actually very true.

        You’d get a big eye roll when stating “Playboy” or “Penthouse” when challenged for your fact sources in high school debate class, but that was theater – those really WERE as good sources as Newsweek or Time for important issues of the day.

        I was around in the ’70’s, before all the “new enlightenment” when people were actually much more forthcoming about this stuff, thinking it was “sexual liberation”. The “ruined for life” panic and hysterical “worse than death” pronouncements weren’t even around until the later ’80’s.

        “Research” of this sort was in it’s infancy at that time, and the politically correct “don’t blame the victim” dictate was years and years off in the distance. People were just starting to talk about that stuff then, it had been totally “hush hush” before…like homosexuality is now considered “born that way”, but back then homosexuals were simply moral degenerates – IF homosexuality was even discussed at all.

        This is like condemning a WWII vet as “racist” because he called Japanese Americans “Japs” in 1944 or banning Mark Twain because he had a bad attitude toward Jews, which was common in the late 1800’s.

        I guess context is too much to ask of those still blaming and hand wringing because women “just” got the right to vote a hundred years ago.

  • by_the_sword

    I read the article. The lies that this woman writes about us makes me want to throw up. Everyone

  • by_the_sword

    I read the article. The lies that this woman writes about us makes me want to throw up. Everyone is making us out to be hate mongers.

    It makes me want to work harder to prove them wrong. To prove to everyone that we are interested in the non-violent pursuit of fair treatment for men and boys.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      You can’t prove anything to people like that.

      Do the right thing for the right reason, and don’t worry about what “they” think.

      The only person you have to “prove” anything to is yourself.

      Seriously. Didn’t your mother ever tell you that?

    • Steve_85

      You’d be trying to teach a pig to sing. It can’t be done.

  • Roderick1268

    Accountability, accountability, and then we hear “they made us” we find out who they are.
    More accountability and a long while later compensation.
    Society and academics and all the rest, start paying for boys and men’s positive out comes.

    • Steve_85

      “Society and academics and all the rest, start paying for boys and men’s positive out comes.”

      Pay for your own positive outcomes. The last thing I want to see is the MRM becoming just another group looking to get handouts from big daddy government. I want smaller government, not fucking more of it.

  • keyster

    A good reporter might ask why the protestors singled out only male attendees from entering.

    The next time we’ll be more inclusive in exposing radical man-hating bigots. You can never be too diversity aware in your coverage. Next time lets be more reflective of the entire misandry industry; including men, and anyone else who is not a hetero-normative caucasian. Couldn’t we at least get a gratuitous shot of a “person of color”, otherwise it seems pretty racist – like a drunken white power pep rally in downtown Toronto.

  • greg

    Megan Murphy is Disgusting.

  • AjaxMurgatroyd

    After watching the Toronto video a few times and thinking about the similarities to all manner of leftists protests, I have concluded that these people are doing their best to instigate violence. They get up in your face, screaming and spitting, with maybe a shoulder bump or a finger in the chest, in hopes that somebody pushes or punches them in retaliation so they can perform a big flop à la Patrick Roy and cry victim (and claim moral high ground). At that point, the general rules of a hockey fight are in play; who swung first isn’t as important as who the referee saw swing first.

    Being rational, honest, or even trying to make sense never even enters into it. The whole goal is to get the targeted individual to swing first. The way these two men are crowding the other is a perfect example of this.

    It also reminds me of this:

  • Wilf

    The Rational Male site has a piece on the protest and one of the commentators (called Wilf – not me) linked to an article on Ryersonian:

    Have a listen to the audio recording from the protestor called Trista Muller (just above the “Trista Muller, U of T computer science explains why she is attending tonight’s protest.” section). It is truly laughable.

  • Klarth

    Dunno who the guy on the left is. Dude on the right is named Tully Morris. I went to high school with him at Parkdale Collegiate, his mother, a self-proclaimed feminist, taught there. We did not get along at all (I wonder why…). I think he’s in the Transitional Year Programme at U of T now, but the truth is, I’ve always known him to be a jerk and not at all a white knight (for example he and a friend in our senior year beat up on a guy with Asperger’s-and he definitely is not a feminist unless his mom put him up to it). But yeah, at least you got his number, now.

    • Paul Elam

      Thanks for posting this. Can you connect me to any kind of verification on Morris’ identity. Maybe an image from a school yearbook, etc?

      Any other information you could provide would be appreciated.



  • Terilien

    Hey, I know Tully Morris. He bullied me while I was at (U of T). :/