Tattoo and derriere

On tits, ass and fucktards

I love a nice set of tits.

I mean, seriously. I don’t mean they have to be big. In fact, small shapely tits are every bit as nice as big ones.

Oh, and I like a nice round ass, too; curvy with a smallish waist floating over hips that flare at just the right angle. I like well-formed thighs that lead up to the promise land, and smooth knees above shapely calves. Of course, all that combined with a woman’s pretty face is a crowning glory; full lips that promise supple kisses and great blow jobs, clear eyes and unblemished skin. All this combines to make a woman utterly fuckable, and visually that is what I like most of all. I like to look at women that are little fuckmuffins.

And I really like it when those fuckmuffins are sexually liberated and adventurous; when they like to please and be pleased, not living life with prudish sticks up their asses made from the same wood that forms the chips on their shoulders. It makes them a fuck-ton more fun.

If you have a problem, with any of this, you can go fuck yourself.

Of the now almost endless list of things that have grown annoyingly stupid and sanctimonious about feminism is the Victorianesque shaming of my sexual programming as a man. Even with the so called “sex positive” feminists, the most hypocritical assholes of them all, the only positive sexuality they embrace is that of women. To them, male sexuality, in all its glory, is something to be buried, controlled and allowed to surface only when it serves the sexual needs of some narcissistic, horny, self-absorbed little “sex positive” princess.

The FAT (feminist and traditionalist) clause applies here, also. And the traditionalists have been at it longer than even the feminists have. Who are those traditionalists? You will know them by their obsequious silence while feminists shame men for committing the scurrilous act of looking at women sexually. Or better yet, as they join in with their “men can stop rape” bedfellows to twist and distort the natural inclinations of young men with Puritan sexual guilt that marches in lockstep with the feminist hatred of male sexuality.

Gynocentrism, as the name directly implies, is about the pussy, not the dick.

Now, all that being said, is woman-as-fuckmuffin all I care about? Hardly. As a matter of fact, I would throw fuckmuffin to the curb faster than you can say “patriarchy” to spend time with a woman of good character and intelligence. I have learned in life that my dick has a healthy agenda for humanity, but not necessarily for me. So as my values have matured, so has my taste in women.

The point here is that my development in this way is a product of normal masculine development. It is not a result of feminist fucktards trying to shame me for liking tits, or traditionalist fucktards trying to shame me for the exact same thing.

And I am the one that benefits from it, not feminists, not traditionalists, and not fuckmuffin, who is prone to act indignant when she feels sexualized (by the wrong guy). She can become so angry at being “objectified” that you can see her tits shake right through that tight sweater with the neckline that plunges to the vicinity of her toes.

You see, if you want men to quit sexualizing women so much, all you have to do is get out of their way. Time and experience will lead them to understand that fuckmuffin should be regarded with same respect as you would afford a stinging insect. The scar tissue from burns bear messages; important ones.  Like, “Hey man, those tits are nice, but pay attention to how she ACTS.”

Most men get this with time. And they learn to value women for much more than their looks. Again, they do this without the chiding of neurotic ideologues or the shopworn moralizing of pious freaks whose main problem is that they are ashamed of their own sexuality.

And until they get it? Leave them the fuck alone. There is nothing wrong with them. Nothing needs to be fixed. If you want to help a young man like that, just start encouraging him to connect the dots between fuckmuffin’s propensity to take her own picture and post it to Facebook four times a day and her ultimate tendency to make him miserable. Eventually he will get the connection. And if he doesn’t, maybe that makes him happy. Either way, it is none of your fucking business.

About Paul Elam

Paul Elam is the founder and publisher of A Voice for Men, WhiteRibbon.org and the founder of A Voice for Men Radio, the AVfM YouTube Channel, and appears weekly on AVFM Intelligence Report, Going Mental with Dr. Tara Palmatier and weekly on MANstream Media with Warren Farrell and Tom Golden.

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  • http://marktrueblood.posterous.com/ Mark Trueblood

    Seemed appropriate—

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Gee, I hope no one accuses me of plagiarism. :)

      • Victor Zen

        I was considering it. :)

        But nah, shit needs to be said. Good on ya, Elam.

    • http://themanonthestreet.blogspot.com/ Al Woods (TMOTS)

      Uhm… did GWW.. Did she jes use the term “fap”?

      Snicker.

      TMOTS

  • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

    Paul, your piece couldn’t have been more timely. Barely an hour ago I had a tense discussion with one of my beloved daughters who opined that I’d ‘objectified’ attractive (French) women in ‘Two Men in a Car’. I told her I was NOT going to be shamed for being a man who publicly appreciates female beauty, something that hasn’t been a problem for 99.9% of human history, but now is a problem, apparently, thanks to hotties such as Andrea Dworkin.

    We’ll get our normally wonderful relationship back on track very soon, I’m perfectly sure, but this kind of thing can get a man down. One of the challenges of being a MHRA with daughters in an era when hate-driven feminism is the ruling paradigm…

    Onwards and upwards!

    Mike Buchanan

    ANTI-FEMINISM LEAGUE
    http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com

    • Mark

      Tell her if you hadn’t “objectified” her mother when you were younger, she wouldn’t be here.

      • scatmaster

        Bulls eye.

    • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

      Do not dignify false language and rhetoric. ‘Objectification’ is a meaningless, nonsensical, non-value added utterance as commonly applied from the feminist bent. Demand that she define what the fuck she is talking about when she attempts to slander you in a derogatory manner with such a label. And when she makes no sense tell her to stfu with her aggression, or make sense. Are you ‘making the female into an object’, are you ‘treating her as an object’? Specifically how are you treating her as an object? What does it mean to ‘treat someone as an object’? Does she objectify the janitor when she calls him to clean up a mess? Does she objectify the movers when she calls them to move her shit?

      • feeriker

        Do not dignify false language and rhetoric. ‘Objectification’ is a meaningless, nonsensical, non-value added utterance as commonly applied from the feminist bent. Demand that she define what the fuck she is talking about when she attempts to slander you in a derogatory manner with such a label.

        Better yet, if you want to send her into a foaming, stroke-inducing rage, tell her that she shouldn’t be flattering herself by thinking that the term has any application or relevance whatsoever to her.

    • Jay

      Objectify – a term popularised by misandrist feminists to shame men from following their normal healthy sexuality of admiring feminine beauty. I would argue by viewing a woman as a sexual being, whether in a photograph or otherwise, you are actually giving them a very human quality, quite distinct from an object such as a desk. These misandrist feminists, do gooders and moralists need to move to the back of the bus.

      Oh, and I’ll send that email via a different account, it was regarding the demonisation of male sexuality and the ludicrous swedish model, so important to misandrist feminists in their effort to criminalise and jail men for simply being normal, healthy and heterosexual.

      Fortunately we have many wonderful women who believe in equality and freedom of choice, they are the women who are the dictionary definition of feminists (equal and fair rights between men and women). Yet feminists refuse to call these fair minded women feminists, instead calling them toxic women, and women who promote violence against women.

      It really is beyond belief that anyone actually believes that a feminist believes in equal rights and gender equality. That’s what feminists claim, and all they do is deny men basic human rights and equality.

  • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

    Hahahahaha; I love it!!!

    PE, you’re as Alpha as a wolf leading a pack of wolves into a feeding frenzy over a fresh kill; and twice as nice!

    Hahahaha, if ever I am in Texas, even if I have to drive several hours; I am going to clink beers with you one day.

    This sailor surely loved the hell out of this piece.

  • Grumpy Old Man

    Good article Paul,

    Ok, I’ll play the objectification game for a moment if that’s the term Feminist want to use to describe my attraction to women:

    When I was younger the girls would have work through my objectification to show their worth. Now they have to prove their worth to earn my objectification. It’s funny how age provides perspective on earned and unearned appreciation.

  • Near Earth Object

    Does anyone else think that Paul could write material for Joe Walsh?

    • Murray Pearson

      I.L.B.T.’s! The best thing about the song was how shocked the producers were when they heard the lyrics. “Shoulda listened to it sooner!” was his reply.

  • keyster

    You’re just making it harder on all the “nice guys”.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      LOL!

  • Kimski

    “As a matter of fact, I would throw fuckmuffin to the curb faster than you can say “patriarchy” to spend time with a woman of good character and intelligence.”

    Nailed.
    (No pun intended.)

  • Nightwing1029

    Yup.
    I can’t do anything but agree with Paul on this.
    Should I ever have a son, I am going to have him read this, before he starts dating.

  • externalangst

    Young men deserve to be given a realistic appreciation that some women are more trouble than than they’re worth. It starts with recognizing their own worth and that society values protecting them from predators. I don’t see currently see this.

    The use of slang for genitalia reflects society’s attitudes. All slang for the penis are derogatory terms with meanings associated with idiocy or contempt. This is not so for vaginas – ‘pussy’ is a case in point. Unlike all penis terms, pussy doesn’t also allude to something negative.

    We need a non-derogatory term for penis (doggy?). Until then, I propose the increased use of a fine word:

    twat / twot / n. 1. a contemptible person; an idiot (silly twat). 2. the female genitals.
    (The Australian Modern Oxford Dictionary)

    • Aimee McGee

      I belong to the group of people dedicated to reclaiming the use of the word ‘cunt’ away from those who think it is a term of abuse.
      It’s a great and simple word for a female vagina. Pairs nicely with ‘cock’.
      People are WAY too precious about language

      • OneHundredPercentCotton

        If it was good enough for Chaucer it’s good enough for me.

      • Aimee McGee

        Hey I got a down vote! Come on, don’t be shy to explain your reasoning…

      • Murray Pearson

        I like you more every day, Aimee! <3

        • Aimee McGee

          Simplicity testimony in action!

          BTW Murray, Beloved and I are considering starting a blog around some of the MHRA issues and Quakerism – figuring we need to start generating a place for discussing these issues in light of the testimonies.
          Being Quakers I expect it will veer off into other areas as Beloved is exploring the negative impact of post-modernist attitudes on business practice amongst Friends ATM…

          • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

            Hi Aimee. Interested in your comment about your Beloved’s interest in ‘business practices’. This is obviously the core focus of Campaign for Merit in Business http://c4mb.wordpress.com and he might be interested in our briefing paper on the impact of increasing female representation on corporate boards http://c4mb.wordpress.com/improving-gender-diversity-on-boards-leads-to-a-decline-in-corporate-performance-the-evidence/. Feel free to suggest he contact me at mb1957@hotmail.co.uk then maybe we can have a chat. The campaign occupied most of my time between 2.12 – 2.13, before I launched my party, so hopefully I can help him understand the issues. All the best.

          • Aimee McGee

            @ Mike – oops, guilty of Quaker speak. When we talk business practices we are meaning the process by which our faith community makes corporate decisions – we don’t have a pastoral structure and we don’t vote. When there is room for modernist discussion and a willingness to remove ego from decision making, Quakers can make amazing decisions, but if there is failure to understand the importance of discernment things get very messy, very fast.

      • feeriker

        Excellent point, Aimee. The challenge now becomes one of finding the appropriate substitute epithet that makes use of an attribute that is clearly a negative no matter the context in which it’s used. Maybe “PMS Princess” or “PMS Piranha?”

        • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

          I think anyone who believes there are patriarchies in developed countries in the modern era is not only unintelligent, but suffering from a mental illness of some sort. I guess that’s why they had to invent a course that even these people are capable of passing – Women’s Studies.

          A year or two ago I wrote to some milifems asking if they’d contribute to a study I was conducting into the correlation between IQ and strength of feminist convictions. I offered to pay for the IQ test, and would you believe none of the women responded? The same thing happened with my study into the correlation between physical attractiveness and strength of feminist convictions.

          When I look at the milifem protesters at UoT and elsewhere, I’m convinced they’re also suffering from PPMS – Permanent Pre-Menstrual Syndrome. Maybe with the right hormone treatment, financed by the state, they could all be turned into normal women? Now that would be an initiative I’d be happy for my taxes to help finance…

          • Aimee McGee

            One of the bits that pisses me off more than anything is the fact that there is more ignorance about reproductive and menstrual health now than there was when I was a teen. I learned about tracking my cycle, working out when I was likely to be a wee touch ‘crabbit’ and even in the 80s my Mum helped me try various alternative health approaches to my PMT.
            Now, most women I meet know nothing about their signs and symptoms and are amazed when I share my 6 month basic intervention plan for treating mild to moderate symptoms, and would probably drop dead of shock if they only knew I also have a 12 month plan for management of moderate to severe symptoms.
            Problem is these take effort at compliance with lifestyle change to be effective – and most are not disciplined enough to follow even the basic plan.
            So they settle for being victims of their hormones.
            For the record, I recently found out why I have always had moderate to severe symptoms and the gynaecologist was amazed I had got to over 40 without intervention from medics – then I ended up teaching her about dietary interventions!

        • Aimee McGee

          Reminds me of a favourite joke: Why is it called PMS?
          ‘Cos Mad Cow Disease was already taken.

          • feeriker

            Then again, maybe PMS isn’t really a suitable subject for a pejorative term substituting for the commonly used “c” word. It is, after all, a part of the natural female biology, however unpleasant its effects.

            Problem is these [techniques to manage PMS symptoms] take effort at compliance with lifestyle change to be effective – and most are not disciplined enough to follow even the basic plan.

            So they settle for being victims of their hormones.

            Yup. And good heavens, to deny oneself an excuse to play the “victim card?” Heaven forbid!

      • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

        My interpretation of the term is akin to the usage of the phrase, ‘men think with their dicks’. Calling a female a ‘cunt’ is exposing and condemning malicious behavior as based in selfish, hedonistic impulse ultimately derived from the sexual axis. iow, ‘women think with their cunts’.

        • Aimee McGee

          I must say my intimate partners have all been a bit surprised at my preferred slang terminology for my genitals. I can see why it is used as an insult – but for me it has a magnificent linguistic and cultural heritage and doesn’t act as a synonym to a fluffy animal e.g. Pussy or Beaver.
          One of my friends teaches sexual health and starts the classes with a brainstorm of all the words for both genders genitals – as she says, it means that everyone knows what they are talking about and it gets over the giggle factor. She also says she nearly always learns a new term in a different language each time she starts with a new school

          • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

            Oh that’s cool
            Yeah, it’s probably context dependent

            My best on ‘reclaiming ‘slut” and ‘take back the night’ projects.. ;-)

    • stratosphere

      How about dongle? it is an item of positive value.
      plus it would give a whole new meaning to the word “donglegate” too… ^^

      • externalangst

        @ stratosphere: Dongle is good.

        @ Aimee: My not very well made point was the difference in the preciousness of language between the sexes. Generally women object to any common usage of words for female genitals that could be construed however negatively.

        So we have euphemisms like vajayjay etc. used in polite company. The same women would have no problem using words like dick, dickhead, tool etc. also in polite company without a hint of cognitive dissidence. Neither would any of these words attract a ‘course language warning’ from the media. There is a double standard enforced mainly by women.

        I suggested ‘twat’ because it’s classified as ‘coarse colloquial’ rather than ‘offensive’ so can be generally used. It’s this use of language that reinforces the male sexuality bad / female sexuality good paradigm. Using ‘twat’ can suggest that not all ‘twats’ (women and/or vaginas) are worthwhile.

        I imagine that if ‘dongle’ was taken up for general usage, it wouldn’t be long before it would also start to attain misandric attributes. And if ‘twat’ was more commonly used it wouldn’t be long before it was reclassified as ‘offensive’.

        • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

          One of the things I believe has been part of Female Privilege for hundreds of years, possibly millenia, is the power declare what is and is not acceptable language.

          It may stem from mothering, or it may stem from something else, but for my entire life I have encountered women–and it’s almost always women–who chide for “rude language,” or do more than chide and fly into a rage.

          I have met a much smaller number of men who do this, but even they are usually–not always but usually–defending women’s sensibilities when they do this.

          I find the behavior identical whether it’s feminists and their white knights doing it, or conservative traditionalists doing it.

          Control over what is and is not acceptable discourse is something that’s been given over to deference to women as long as I’ve lived, and almost no one ever questions it.

          What is the difference between “don’t swear in front of a lady” and “don’t say that, it’s sexist/misogynist?” Other than a hair of ideological difference, the impulse, and the usually unquestioning acceptance of it, is identical so far as I can see.

          • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

            Dean, you never fail to bring the most salient points, my friend.

            Control of language is control of thought and behavior. Control of language is non-trivial; females and feminists are all too aware of this as they wield their emotional club in control of language. Language is our reality, shaping, limiting and defining the terms in which we think. Any attempts to control language must be seen as the most aggressive and intolerable of offenses, and be met with swift retaliation and annihilation.

          • feeriker

            Spot on, Dean. I think this is one of the things about which I’ve been most resistant over the course of my adult life. I’ve always taken to heart George Orwell’s dictum “”But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.” Ergo, I refuse to allow anyone to force me to alter or otherwise pervert the clear intended meaning of words simply because a preferred (to those in power) demographic group demands it. Needless to say, while it hasn’t made me many friends, I do pride myself in never having had anyone not know exactly where I stand.

            And of course this brings up another famous Orwellian maxim: “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

          • Cousin Dave

            Dean, that’s an excellent point, and it illustrates how feminists don’t mind exploiting traditional feminine privileges when it suits them. Feminists use that traditional female control over language to declare huge swaths of inquiry off limits for discussion in polite company. One can easily see how useful that would be to an authoritarian political movement.

      • TigerMan

        My wireless moose (Ooops thought I was Scottish there for a sec!) has a very small dongle that enables it to connect with my sexy ‘puter. It is very effective despite it’s tiny size. I find that oddly reassuring! lol ;)

  • knightrunner

    What was that you said Paul? For some reason I couldn’t get past the first couple of paragraphs.

    Great article. Well written and subtle as a Mack with a 4″ straight pipe. However I would like to add something if I may. Your right, there is nothing wrong with guys wanting pussy. But there is something wrong with the pussies. I fear and feel sorry for any single guy out on the prowl. Every time he picks up a girl that qualifies for the 3 F rule he will hope and pray that she isn’t a psycho bitch. The problem is that most of the single women out there qualify as both. I say it time that men of all ages demand better. Tell all women to go fuck themselves or eachothet because we aren’t going to anymore. Think about what would happen to the million year old sexual dynamic of men beg women hold back if all the men said “Im a human being, if you want to fuck me your going to have to make it worth my time. And no princes a wet meat hole isn’t worth it.” What would happen if men turned the tables on women? A lot of shit would change.

    So guys go get yourself a 55 gallon drum of lube, a truckload of paper towels, 2 or 3 lifetime subscriptions to your favorite porn site and learn to whoop that motherfucker like a spider monkey.
    To all the good women out there I know this will cause.you some trouble. But Im not sorry for it. You should have spoke up about this shit a long time ago. Now maybe you will join us in fixing the problem.

    Ok, Im done preaching now. So we’ll pass around the offering plate as the choir leads us in a rendition of Go My Own Way.

    • knightrunner

      Paul Ill be through your area either today or tomorrow. It would be an honor to buy you a cup of truck stop coffee.

      • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

        Send me an email with your cell number

        • knightrunner

          Email?

          • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley
          • knightrunner

            Thanks suz, wasn’t sure if it was “Paul” or “Paul Elam” @……..

    • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

      knightrunner, thank you for helping me LMAO with your image of a 55 gallon drum of lube, and making me reflect on how long such a useful facility could make a man immune to ‘lady temptations’ haha. Priceless. You’ve ended my stressful crone-fighting week on a very happy note.

      • August Løvenskiolds

        Actually, wouldn’t one need 2 55-gallon drums? Only one of them for the lube.

        • Cousin Dave

          Ba-da-bing! But seriously… there are an awful lot of drugs on the market these days which have, as a side effect, that they kill the male sex drive. You can be free of it… liberated to live your own life and do the things you want to do. Women will be nice to look at from a quasi-artistic standpoint, but you won’t feel the compulsion. If I was a young man today, I’d be doctor shopping to get myself some kind of SSRI script.

      • knightrunner

        Glad you enjoyed it. I was being a little sarcastic, but I feel the point is still valid. Men should see themselves as human beings, instead of dogs begging for a bone. Once men begin to value themselves as humans, women will have to have more than just a great body and a pretty face to attract mens attention. Something like, I don’t know, a nice personality maybe.

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/MrShadowfax42 MrShadowfax42

      Fuck yes, knightrunner, I could not have said it better myself.

    • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

      Lmao…….

      Brilliant execution, Knightrunner, full of truth

      Got the song in my head…

  • Aimee McGee

    Hmmm…I really did sleep through the ‘how to be an enraged feminist’ classes in my life.
    What is the problem with appreciating the way someone of the opposite sex looks? Hey, standing comparing notes on the firemen with a (male) nurse colleague during a recent fire alarm was a great way to forget the wind that was freezing our asses off…and he nodded and smiled as he recognised two of them who cut him out of a nasty car wreck about 3 months ago.
    I have a sneaking suspicion women who complain are worried they don’t ‘measure up’ – but miss that everyone has their ‘type’ and someone thinks you are sexy.
    Oh, and the 77y/o man who helped me understand age 19, that men truly appreciate the beauty of a woman’s mind was not an old pervert – he saved me years of confusion and self-doubt. I still remember Jack fondly for setting that record straight with a look and some kind words to a gawky, shaved head, doc Martin wearing science geek who was feeling she would never be attractive to anyone

  • Phil in Utah

    I like to deal with this issue by asking “What, fundamentally, is the difference between the way feminists treat male sexuality, and gay-bashing?”

    • Carlos

      Brilliant! I’m going to have to claim this wonderful rhetorical nugget for myself.

      • Phil in Utah

        Be my guest.

    • http://kevin-wayne.blogspot.com Kevin

      Wish I could vote this up 100 times!

    • Near Earth Object

      You may want to consider breaking it down: male-gay-bashing, female-gay-bashing and even other groups who are gay-bashed.

      • Near Earth Object

        I have reason to believe that when feminists speak out on gay-bashing, that it is genuine, but only in the case of female-gay-bashing. In the case of males, and others, they are merely providing a service, so that the public perception is that they are against all gay-bashing.

        It is from this same origin, that I have come to believe that in time, most if not all alliances between the feminist community and other non-female groups with fracture and break.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      God DAMN. I wish my brain would have been firing on enough cylinders to have that click into place before I wrote this piece.

      No bother, I will simply steal it from you for the next time I address this subject.

      Spot on truth, Phil. Thank you.

    • JGteMolder

      Women don’t have to worry breaking nails, they get other men to do the bashing for them?

  • http://kevin-wayne.blogspot.com Kevin

  • lindaskill

    I’m glad I read this post to the end. After I got past the first paragraphs where I was offended, I got a good laugh. The bit about your d!ck betraying you… my vagina’s treated me just as bad. I learned not to listen to it. And my favorite sight is “sunshine on the construction site.” Thanks.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Glad you enjoyed. :)

  • Carlos

    Wow… as accustomed as I am to finding political incorrectness and the poking of sacred cows (pun intended) here at AVfM, this piece even had me cringing (but in a good way!)

    Not surprisingly, I agree with every word, but I wouldn’t have the balls to come out and say it and, frankly, can’t help but wonder how you can even put your pants with balls that big. Hell I’m still so damn indoctrinated with shame over my own evil, oppressive sexuality that I barely dare to look at a fine piece of ass walking by if there are women around to see me… even if I don’t know them!

  • Black Knight

    The whole objectification argument is one-sided bullshit. Men get objectified MORE than women do. But since men are different than women, the objectification takes a different form. Male attractiveness to females is tied up in status, not looks. This is how men are objectified, and they are objectified mercilessly by women on those grounds. Remember the TLC #1 hit “No Scrubs”? That song says it all… if you don’t have a good job/nice car/high social status… then don’t even try to approach me. Women are seldom ever shamed for judging men in this way.

    Much of this is the result of the Protestant work ethic which is embraced by American society and the attendant sexual repression which comes with it. Physical sexuality is therefore shameful, but status is something to be proud of. It’s OK to demand that a man work himself to an early grave, but it’s wrong to ask a woman to get her fat ass in the gym to get in shape.

    Repeat after me, EVERYONE gets objectified in the United States, and men catch it the worst. It’s a fact of life, cupcake. Fucking deal with it.

    • Theaverageman

      Men are objectified because men LET themselves be objectified and it has become the status quo.

      Women are objectified because women LET themselves be objectified and it has become the status quo.

      If either gender wants to stop being objectified they need to change themselves.

      Thats what i like about the mens movement.All social progress is realized through personal change(zeta masculinity for example) instead of telling other people to accommodate you.

      • Black Knight

        You have to fight back against social injustice, and the best way to do that is to withhold your cooperation from the unjust society in question. Simply tell them calmly, but clearly that… no, I’m not going to go along with this anymore. You can do your worst, but this is wrong and I’m not going to take it anymore.

        • DarkByke

          So very very true.

  • http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?tid=451 dhanu

    Demonizing and shaming the natural male sexuality is such favorite among some that they’re hell bent on to ‘prove’ with pseudo-scientific studies/surveys that men’s natural sexual attractions are sexist and misogynist.

    Some even say that it’s wrong to compliment any woman doing anything well in kitchen.

    The cure: Ignore these turds and wave that dick in their faces (not literally, of course, but be proud of your likes and dislikes about anyone and everyone).

  • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

    ¡Agape!

    Free expression includes my expression, mother fucker

  • Roger O Thornhill (George Kaplan)

    Great article Dr Paul.
    I agree also that the most valuable assets any women has are not the ones you can see. I wish our society valued the same.

    You really are the anti-Dr Phil. We’re glad you’re here and not in a alternate parrallel universe! I wish he would go back to where he came from.
    Think about it folks. :-)

  • Dunamace

    The best advice I have seen was scrawled into a pub toilet door.

    “Mate, It doesn’t matter how good looking she is, some bloke is putting up with her shit.”

    • Kimski

      There’s a mountain of truth and a world of hurt embedded in those words.

    • feeriker

      EXACTLY.

  • se_men

    Men like fuckmuffins as much as women like (and takes pleasure from) sweet compliments, lovely touch and appreciation of their beauty and body by men. This is a mutual exchange. Any other demand from women, chivalric or financial for pleasure of their company is financial and sexual exploitation of men.

    • externalangst

      When women have been shown pictures of naked men and their physiological response measured vaginally, their response is sexual arousal. However, they verbally deny being sexually aroused.

      Ester Vilar (Author of ‘The Manipulated Man’) claims that most females decide at the age of 11 or 12 to repress any physical attraction to males as it interferes with selecting (and falling in love with) rich and powerful men – who are often physically unattractive. She says they make this decision in order to concentrate on seeking material goods and services from males.

      • se_men

        THAT must be True. So, it derives that women can’t afford handsome guys even if they like them but pretend and act entitled that relatively poorer men don’t worth the hot damsel . Hypocritical ‘hypergamy’!!

      • Kimski

        Female sexual arousal response to pictures is pretty consistent across the board.
        It doesn’t matter if it’s other naked women, two men, or even, as an example, zebra’s mating. The response is there, and it’s measureable.
        Men are of course no exception to this rule, and gaming is to a certain degree based on that knowledge, where you attempt to bypass the cognitive ego in order to trigger the id, the part of the psyche, residing in the unconscious, that is the source of instinctive impulses that seek satisfaction in accordance with the pleasure principle.

        http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com/news/20030515235025_health_news.shtml

        • stratosphere

          Except male/female humans and zebras, studies must be conducted to measure the sexual responce to hot sexual scenes such as: /watch?v=Mn25PoMUuYQ
          TRIGGER WARNING: contains flowers opening, egyptian obelisks rising, submarines firing torpedoes and hot dog assemby

  • Andy Bob

    Ah, yes. The sex-positive sistahood.

    Sorgasbord Feminism at it’s most predictable. Self-serving and suspiciously Scandanavian (sorry Mr Kimski and our Viking brethren, but it was alliteratively relevant). As usual, the lobster bowl has been picked clean while the salad remains untouched.

    There is nothing more galling than listening to the surgically-enhanced whine about being objectified. The giveway to their hypocritical slant is, as Dr Elam states, their fervent demonization of masculine sexuality.

    I am imagining, with the deepest possible satisfaction, that this article will make that neckless creature with the bullhorn’s head explode in a scarlet-tinted display of outraged indignation.

    Job well done.

    • Kimski

      I have no problem with hearing the truth, Mr.Andybob, and you’re doing very well here.
      Please proceed, and don’t mind me.
      :)

    • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

      On Fire, Mr. Bob

      ..how I love that man

  • http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?tid=451 dhanu

    @externalangst That’s how the female mate selection process works. Briffault’s law also reflects the same thing.

  • Gamer

    To all you anti-seduction guys who have already commented here on the “charms” of celibacy and masturbation:

    As a seducer who has slept with a decent number of women, as a member of the seduction community, and as a man currently in an open relationship familiarizing himself with the swinger scene, the first thing I learned when I began this lifestyle was that women have two separate realities – one for attractive men (alphas) and one for unattractive men (betas).

    Note: I’m talking about your personality, not your looks, which you can control.

    Women make damn sure that those two realities are as separate as possible and that both men are kept ignorant of the existence of the other one.

    Betas are the financial providers and worker bees. As far as these men are concerned, women are asexual creatures whom these men need to earn the sex from via supplication, subjugation, and slavery. Since women see themselves as needing these providers, they will send you on a wild goose chase, in terms of what they say they expect (a castrated nice guy).

    If you, as a beta, start acting like an alpha, you will be shamed mercilessly. You will be called a creep and a stalker for flirting with women. You will be called a “rapist in training” for propositioning women or doing anything suggesting that women have a sexuality. You will be told that you are a pig and men can’t act this way in a civilized society.

    If you step out of line, you will even be falsely accused of rape, arrested, have your kids taken from you, bankrupted, and the like – all just to reinforce the beta reality that women have laid out for you.

    And then there are the alphas. Women encourage behavior from them that they viciously discourage from the betas. They see sex from these men as a gift to them (the women). As such, they encourage these men to flirt with them, dominate them, get them to submit to their masculinity, and do everything else that they convinced you will lead to a false rape accusation.

    They love this “uncivilized” behavior from the attractive men and they fully show their sexuality in front of these men, giving them the impression that these men are doing these women a favor by sleeping with them – a favor that these women are genuinely grateful for.

    Call it a “secret society” if you wish. And the women make sure that the alphas are completely ignorant of the beta reality as well. When a beta who is fearful of getting arrested for false rape talks to an alpha, the alpha is shocked. He says to the beta, “Dude, what are you talking about? Women love sex. They love to be dominated. They’ll literally throw themselves at you and be grateful for your sexual attention. Just talk to them.”

    The alpha is completely ignorant of the beta reality, and vice versa. This “masculine lover/castrated provider” dichotomy has worked well for women, but it has also made them incredibly deceitful.

    Whether a woman is a psycho (I’m talking about normal women, not feminists) depends partly on her personality, but it also partly depends on yours. Deceptive predators can smell fear and they only go after the weak, while submitting to the strong (referring, in this case, to psychological strength).

    The same woman will falsely accuse one man of rape for doing something, while gratefully appreciating a second man for doing that exact same something. One man will be put in handcuffs for “sexually harassing” her, while another man is invited into her bed for doing the exact same thing using the exact same words, with her grateful appreciation.

    Cultivating psychological strength, psychological dominance, confidence, outcome independence, an abundance mentality, and certain other things will peg you as an attractive man. Yes, there will still be psychotic feminists out there whom you should avoid, but the doors of the so called “secret society” will swing open to you and women will, for the first time, encourage you to do that which would have sent you to jail on trumped up charges for doing as an unattractive man.

    This is from my personal experience from having been in both camps (beta and alpha). And let me tell you: I’m currently living a lifestyle of sexual abundance with no fear of “psycho bitches,” even if these women are indeed “psycho bitches” towards other men, the way they used to be towards me many years ago.

    The nature of the feminine is submissiveness. But she will only submit to masculinity, while dominating and subjugating the feminine males via sexual shaming, asexual pretensions, and even legal action in order to keep the beta ignorant of the other reality.

    The seduction community has taught me “game” and “screening.” Yes, there are still feminist psychotics out there, but I’m not even talking about those crazies, who are crazy towards every man (whom the MRM is addressing). I’m talking about the nature of the normal female predator and whom she wishes to eat vs. whom she wishes to submit to.

    Please think about these laws of the jungle before you “stock up on tissues and porn.” Normal women (not talking about deranged feminists) hate psychologically weak men and, using a matriarchal legal system, will destroy them. But they love men who can pass their shit tests and show that they can handle them. That’s how they submit to you and feel safe with you, after you’ve proven you can handle them.

    Real rapists or real stalkers tend to be feminine men, or “the providers.” Masculinity is the anti-rape, the source of protection, which makes lesbian feminists trying to get rid of masculinity chilling, as it will increase real rape, thus confirming feminism’s anti-male thesis and strengthening their political position.

    A woman can tell if you’ve got femininity in you, immediately. When they smell true masculinity (unless they’re mentally deranged feminists), they will get enthusiastically horny right after they get the other chump fired for “sexual harassment.”

    Please understand the two realities before you give in to an externally motivated mindset of helplessness and disempowerment due to the extrinsic environment.

    P.S. A woman can be both a fuckmuffin and an intellectual and wise soulmate!

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Yawn.

      • Gamer

        Okay, then let me give you the extremely short version: A woman’s personality represents only 50 percent of what is relevant. The man’s personality influences and shapes hers, or triggers certain insane or sane reactions. Men who are looking for female companionship shouldn’t be disempowered with feelings of helplessness in the face of crazy women, and they wouldn’t be if they knew just how powerful they (the men) really are to influence women’s dispositions towards them.

        And just so we’re clear: I know you’re not pro-celibacy yourself. I was simply responding to the guys preaching sexual surrender.

        • http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?tid=451 dhanu

          @Gamer Please see that:

          1. Most people are beta, not alpha.
          2. Most betas are not gamers, nor should they have to be.
          3. Also read the About section (link on top) of the site.
          4. This place is primarily for the men’s rights (legal equality etc). That is what I think the article was about (men shouldn’t be ashamed of their sexual likes and dislikes). It’s not about the Game and teaching false alpha behavior to appease women, it’s about not being ashamed for being men just because someone says they should be.
          5. While your points do have some commonality with the points relevant here, there’s a fundamental difference: A gamer does everything to please women as a mission of his life and existence as a human being. A real man doesn’t seek a woman’s approval, sexual favor, or company for existing.
          6. Alphas are not immune to feminist policies. Obama was just forced to apologize just for calling a woman good looking. I’m pretty sure had he been a woman, he wouldn’t have been forced. Addressing and eliminating such differences and double standards is one of the goals here. Your thinking in the above case would probably be that Obama’s skills are not good enough and he needs to improve upon his game to make himself sufficiently worthy to a woman for praising her so she likes it. Hence the difference.

          • Gamer

            In your order:

            1. Correct, but that is a choice. Being an alpha or a beta has very little to do with genetics or anything deterministic.

            2. Well, being a “gamer” is all about becoming an alpha.

            3. Done.

            4. I agree that men shouldn’t be shamed for their sexuality. My original post was precisely a blueprint for undoing the shame. I don’t appease women. Castrated nice guys with no game appease women.

            5. Incorrect. A gamer does the exact opposite. A loser/chump does everything to appease women, which has the effect of destroying a woman’s attraction for him. Ever heard the phrase “I did everything for that bitch and she ruined my life.” Yeah, that’s the problem. The guy supplicated to her like a feminine nice guy instead of dominating her like an alpha.

            6. First of all, Obama isn’t an alpha. He is a supplicating nice guy chump. Like all politicians, he says his wife is the smart one in the marriage, trashes his own gender in official speeches every Father’s Day, said he begged his wife for “permission to run for president,” and is what the seduction community would call a “nice guy,” or a “pussy,” if you will.

            Second of all, no, my solution would be the opposite of what you suggested. It’s not about praising women or giving them flowers. That’s what chivalrous chumps do, and it destroys women’s attraction. It’s about pedestaling yourself so that women will praise, respect, and submit to you! Obama should have said, “I’m sorry, I meant you’re terrible looking. I didn’t notice the excess fat. Are we good now?” Sarcasm and mockery are the only solutions to female attempts at castration. Yes Obama needs to improve his game by standing up to these bitches, starting with his wife!

            Wow! Most of you guys think that game is the opposite of what it really is.

          • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

            Gamer,
            Quite the contrary. Most of these guys know exactly what game is, and have in a way, moved beyond it. The ultimate purpose of game is to please women. Yes, it’s done by “displeasing” them, but the goal is to win women’s approval. Not feminists’ approval, women’s approval – the kind of approval that keeps them horny, begging for more.

            The bottom line is that maintaining attraction is work, and there are relatively few women worth the effort.

          • http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?tid=451 dhanu

            @Gamer Thanks for the response.

            2. False alpha. Real alphas don’t need the Game.

            4. You advise men to behave like alphas. This part is okay with a men’s rights activist. The difference is in the aim of doing this. A Gamer’s intention is to attract the women by doing this (changing yourself to appeal to the women, make yourself desirable to the women); I call this appeasing the women. A non-Gamer is free to act however he wishes, without having to wear a false alpha mask and without the fear of being ridiculed or shamed for having deceived some woman by posing as alpha.

            5. A Gamer is still open to all the legal risks that a beta is. The system is rigged in the favor of women. When the game is stacked against you, the best move is not playing. Once an alpha gets into the hot water, all the Game has to say is he was not good enough with the Game. That’s laughable.

            6. How do you define alpha? BTW, there are other examples of alphas, like Brian Bank. Or is he not alpha as well?

            Secondly, the response you proposed for Obama would surely get him into hot water. Because it’s not a shit test (these Game terms are all you seem to think of in every situation involving women).

            I get what the Game is, I meant to tell you that it’s not fully consistent with the movement here and the part that is relevant is the only thing that matters here. You’re completely disregarding the concepts of legal equality and the relationship on equal terms, which is the point of relevance here.

            See this thread for some cases of false rape accusations. See this thread for the terms [b]Date Rape, Dear Colleague, Rape Culture, Witch Hunt[/b] to know what the movement is against. Then think how much your propositions are relevant.

            (You can also see the definitions of alpha, beta, game, pua, etc that I’m using.)

          • donzaloog

            That story where Obama had to apologize for calling that woman attractive made me sick.I know Obama’s a politician and a majority of his job is kissing people’s asses but I would’ve put my foot down on that one.

            “How dare I find her attractive? How dare you be offended by the fact that I find her attractive? Save your shaming tactics for somebody else. My attractions are not subject to your prejudices” Is what he should’ve said.

          • Gamer

            @Suzanne:

            Please see my response to Theaverageman regarding mutual dependence equality vs. mutual independence equality. The future of the species depends upon men and women being equally “dependent” on each other for sexual, emotional, and spiritual comfort. Many people here mistake “mutual dependence equality” for gynocentrism, supplication, matriarchy, feminism, and female supremacy.

            That being said, with the current cultural climate, I agree that most women aren’t worth the effort. Only about five percent of women are. These are the women whom you and others hatefully refer to as “dysfunctional sluts” despite them being the only women in the world who want nothing from you except what you want from them.

            They are our only equals with whom we can experience harmony, and shaming them with your matrix-inspired morality is doing the matriarchy’s work for it, because they do ruin everything for the female power structure. That’s why they are spit on and referred to as “low class, dysfunctional skeezers, sluts, trash,” and so forth.

        • Theaverageman

          Mosts guys here don’t promote celibacy even most MGTOW don’t promote celibacy. What you describe as “game” is no more than gynocentric pussy worship which results in self entitled princesses.
          The PUA garbage you’re talking about is incompatible with mens rights, men have always been defined by women and what you’re suggesting is more of the same while you attempt to explain human relations through the lense of pua junk science

          The Zeta male is a individual who defines himself independent of women and societal gender based pressures,while being unapologetic for who he is.

          • Gamer

            Two things:

            1. Becoming a masculine man whom women submit to is…………pussy worship??? Interesting interpretation. You’ll forgive me if I stick to the opposite conclusion.

            Pussy worship is male femininity, which will make women use you as a provider (and thus, tell Oprah they love you and send you on a wild goose chase) while being sexually disgusted by you. The seduction community teaches masculinity, which is very compatible with men’s rights.

            Psychologically dominating a woman and giving her femininity permission to do what it secretly wants – submit to you – will prevent lots of false rape accusations and Family Court heartache, don’t you think?

            2. You’re PARTIALLY correct in stating that the seduction community isn’t compatible with the “zeta male” philosophy of “mutual independence equality,” as distinguished from “mutual dependence equality.” It is the general thesis of PUAs that men and women are incomplete and sick without one another. We believe men are necessary for women’s mental health, and vice versa.

            If you teach “mutual independence equality,” on the other hand, you’re essentially saying that, “a man needs a woman like a fish needs a bicycle.” To me, that’s feminist rhetoric – the difference being that feminists are liars when they preach “mutual independence equality,” since what they secretly want is supremacy, followed by the extermination of men.

            Anyway, that would be an interesting debate to have with zeta males. Yes, seducers believe in “mutual dependence equality,” and that one gender is sick without the other. We believe the opposite type of equality is toxic and not conducive to human harmony.

          • Gamer

            @dhanu:

            2. You’re talking about those whom the seduction community refers to as “naturals.” They are the ones who know this stuff instinctively. Not all alphas are naturals, however. Some of us used to be betas and had to learn this stuff. But there is nothing “false” about such alphas.

            4. Who said anything about deception? Lying is a very cowardly thing to do. You should never “pose” as an alpha. You should really be one. In terms of changing my attitude and mindset, I had to do a lot of hard inner work (inner game) to get to the mental place I’m in now. It wasn’t easy. But there was no “lying” to women involved. Lying is for chumps who can’t get laid, not alphas.

            I agree with your outcome independent stance. Paradoxically speaking, when you stop caring, the women will come, because outcome independence is attractive. So if you care about getting laid, you must stop caring about getting laid. But the only reason I stopped caring about getting laid was because I wanted to get laid, lol. I am aware of the Zen-like state this has put me in and the schizophrenia of this mindset doesn’t escape me, but fuck it, it works and it’s awesome!

            5. But that’s why you need to learn female psychology.

            Picture this: You’re living in an absolute dystopia where everything is legal for women, including murder. A woman may murder you in front of a cop if she wishes. Women are legally recognized as infallible goddesses. But there are two types of men: Men whom women will choose to kill and men whom women will choose to treat like kings.

            Which is more reasonable? Dismiss the men who are treated like kings by women as “useless gamers,” while you get shot in the head by a feminist, or learn from them?

            In such a dystopia, you have two short-term solutions if you want to survive: Be celibate OR become a master of female psychology. A long-term solution would be to change the laws and form a men’s movement. That’s good, but that takes time. What about in the meantime?

            The MRM works on dismantling the dystopia on the collective scale via changing laws. In the meantime, the seduction community works on dismantling the dystopia on the individual scale via mastering female psychology without needing to change any laws for the individual man. We really are natural allies. Both communities should be given all the support they need without being ridiculed by the other. I have never ridiculed the MRM. Sadly, the same can’t be said in reverse.

            6. An alpha is defined as a man who is masculine, dominant, confident, competent, outcome independent, possessing a mentality of abundance, and is the king of his own life while making decisions from a position of strength, not fear. If you look at all the items on that list, you will see that Obama is the opposite in every respect. He is nothing but a matriarchal chump enslaved to mainstream values of chivalry!

            I don’t know who Brian Bank is so I can’t tell you if he’s alpha or not.

            I agree that my response would put Obama in hot water because politics today is a beta game. In order to win, you must appeal to the matriarchy. No real man, like Calvin Coolidge, who said to a woman “you lose” in response to her saying she bet her friend that she can get him to say at least three words to her, could ever be president today.

            The reason I made my original post was because I felt it was relevant to the topic at hand – men getting shamed for sexualizing women. I was trying to point out that there is hope in avoiding this, because women shame only a certain type of man. I agree that government policies encouraging the shaming should be changed, but I think there is something to be said for the short-term solution as well.

            That’s all. I meant no harm.

          • http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?tid=451 dhanu

            @Gamer

            2. OK. If it’s about being the true alpha (by, say, doing hard work and really get on the top) rather than just posing as one, and that too for one’s own personality/lifestyle/status development (sans attracting women), then that is similar to what any man can strive to achieve and I see no conflict with the MRM up to this point. However, the Game differing from the MRM from here. Whereas the non-Gamers have not necessarily done this specifically to attract women, the Game is explicitly for attracting women. In your opening comment, since you specifically mentioned people who choose to stay away from women and you seemed to think that they made this decision because they were unable to get laid. That is not necessarily the case; many alphas also choose the same and avoid LTR and marriages even when they have the setup to be in one (you can read many such stories in the AVfM forums). Not all of them are incels, some do not want to get into relationships because they really do not see it worthy of the effort. However, in the mentioned comment, you seem to have assumed that they’re all doing it wrong and they must learn the Game. Since teaching or advocating for the Game is not what this site is about, I pointed that out. The MRM and the Game do not have to be absolutely mutually exclusive (at least as much as I know about the two). The common points, though, end at trying to be alpha (which is nothing but striving to make oneself better, which no movement can call bad). The aims of the MRA and the Gamers are completely different, and therefore, an MRA cannot be a Gamer and vice versa. Therefore, at one point, the two paths do become mutually exclusive.

            5. “In such a dystopia, you have two short-term solutions if you want to survive: Be celibate”

            Which is the method of the Grass-Eaters (a subset of the MGTOW). They can be MRA or non-MRA, no conflict between the two.

            “OR become a master of female psychology.”

            Which is what the Gamers do. But just as the Grass-eating is not for everyone, you need to realize that Gaming is also not everyone’s cup of tea.

            “A long-term solution would be to change the laws and form a men’s movement.”

            That’s the MRM.

            “That’s good, but that takes time. What about in the meantime?”

            Anything one likes. If one likes to have relationships no matter how risky it might be, that is fine. The MRM does not make anyone avoid the relationships, it just makes them informed about the risks (red-pills them). After knowing them, it’s an individual man’s own wish.

            “The MRM works on dismantling the dystopia on the collective scale via changing laws. In the meantime, the seduction community works on dismantling the dystopia on the individual scale via mastering female psychology without needing to change any laws for the individual man.”

            As I said, the alphas are not immune to the laws and if you have gone through those terms I mentioned, you must have come across many a case where some alphas (and countless betas) got the short end of the stick in the relationships. The reason some in the MRM (not I but some others) view the Game as dangerous is that it creates a false sense of security. To cite your example, if the woman can shoot any man with impunity, then maybe the risk is less for a Gamer but it’s still there.

            I’ll give you another example. Suppose there’s a plate with three drinks on it, one of which is poisoned (it would kill the person who consumes it). You’re told that, invited to pick one, and drink it. If you picked up the poisoned drink, you die; otherwise you enjoy the taste. What would you do? Personally, I don’t mind what you choose to do. Some others, however, might suggest you that it’s better to not take any drinks because it can be poisoned. A Gamer tells you with a certain degree of confidence (reasonably so) that you can perhaps choose the right drink (better said, avoid the wrong drink) if you follow the Gamer’s advice (but even the Gamer cannot guarantee that the drink chosen with that method would not be the wrong one). So three groups of people are there: My kind, who don’t mind whether you choose your drink or not; the second kind (those other, more caring MRA’s) who think you shouldn’t take any drink; and the Gamer kind, who think you must take a drink. You see, the latter two groups’ recommendations are opposite to each other. So there’s sometimes a conflict.

            “We really are natural allies. Both communities should be given all the support they need without being ridiculed by the other. I have never ridiculed the MRM. Sadly, the same can’t be said in reverse.”

            Well, I can’t comment on behalf of the whole MRM. However, I’ve seen many a Game gurus (including the most prominent one) ridicule the MRM. So you also cannot say this thing on behalf of the whole Game community. I’d say both of these groups/communities/movements are made up of so many people with different mindsets, so a bit of conflict here and there is a given, as with any other groups. There are conflicts within these groups too, showing that no two people can be completely identical in thinking. That’s natural.

            “6. An alpha is defined as a man who is masculine, dominant, confident, competent, outcome independent, possessing a mentality of abundance, and is the king of his own life while making decisions from a position of strength, not fear. If you look at all the items on that list, you will see that Obama is the opposite in every respect. He is nothing but a matriarchal chump enslaved to mainstream values of chivalry!”

            Okay. Brian Bank is all except perhaps “outcome independent” which I don’t know what it means but maybe someone who just does one’s things regardless of (not caring about) whatever else one gets as an aside/by-product. NFL star Brian Banks spends 5 years in prison on false rape accusation by Wanetta Gibson. Persuaded by questionable legal advice, he pleaded guilty to a crime he denied doing in a deal that avoided the possibility of a decades-long sentence. You decide if he was an alpha. I’d say he reasonably fits.

            “I was trying to point out that there is hope in avoiding this, because women shame only a certain type of man.”

            That is the misconception. As I pointed out, Gamers generally tend to view everything from a Game perspective. The MRM has as its primary focus the systematic shaming (demonization of the men and boys as a group), not individual shaming (which is easy to come over just by ignoring it rather than having to learn a whole new theory). And the Game in no way helps in reducing the systematic shaming. Consider feminists telling men that they’re creep, misogynists, rapists or rape-supporters, etc. The government officials and politicians (and priests and the MSM reporters and writers) also shame men. This is done for the whole group of men. The solution to this is not encourage all the men to become Gamers (because when all the men are being collectively being shamed, Gamers are not exempt from that – try showing off your Game skills at a feminist conference; the guy being shouted at in this video is a self-proclaimed Gamer/PUA, it doesn’t work there even on an individual level), but to tell them that they should not be affected by it. Also, if such a thing is being done in an area where a similar shaming of women is not allowed, the MRM’s goal is to make it the same way for the men too. So, as you can see, the goals of the MRM and the Game are completely different. Up to the point of making oneself alpha, I don’t think anyone here will object to that, because becoming an alpha is nothing bad. It’s the purpose of that move that determines the nature of a movement/community.

            “I agree that government policies encouraging the shaming should be changed, but I think there is something to be said for the short-term solution as well.”

            That is fine but the problem was, you came off as forcing that solution on all those who have chosen to withdraw from the relationships, as if all of them are necessarily incels/AFC’s/betas. Had you left a choice for them and respected everybody’s decisions rather than assuming yours to be the best solution, it would have been all fine and good I think.

        • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

          Yawn again, and fuck you. No one here is preaching, though you may be an exception. I am not pro-celibacy or anti-celibacy. I am pro men choosing to do what the fuck they want without getting shame from feminists, traditionalists or anyone else. I don’t even begrudge you your lifestyle of chasing dysfunctional, low rent skeezers and building your self esteem on it. Whatever makes your boat float is no skin off my nose.

          But what I don’t like and won’t have here is asshats acting like snake oil salesmen. Go peddle your bullshit elsewhere.

          • Gamer

            Paul, it was not my intention to insult you or anyone else, despite the fact that that sentiment isn’t mutual in your case. At the risk of taxing your patience and/or making you yawn yet again, I feel that your inflammatory rhetoric and desire to malign the reputation of my women (rather unbecoming of a human rights activist, if you’ll forgive me) deserves a respectful response:

            Every time I’ve posted on this site, it was to offer some relevant feedback to the topic at hand. In this article, you condemned the shaming of men for their natural desires. I agree with you, and I was simply attempting to give some hope to depressed men who have been brutally shamed by women for being something other than castrated eunuchs. I did this by helping them see the “why” behind it all, in the hope that they will use this info to improve themselves instead of giving up.

            I’m also “pro-men doing whatever they want without shame” as long as their choices are coming from a position of strength and not despair. In other words, my original post was meant in the spirit of help, despite your curious designation of me as a “snake oil salesman.” Although you probably don’t think I’m worth this much effort, I’d be curious to hear your take on why my brand of psychological empowerment is useless and “snake oil.”

            In any event, I’ll let the other men here decide if it was helpful and empowering to them to read that there is an alternative to celibacy AND being treated like garbage for your natural human urges.

            Secondly, you defaming my women by calling them “low rent” betrays a vast ignorance of the “upper class nature” of swinger parties and the polyamorous community (there aren’t many working class people there). As for them being “dysfunctional skeezers,” well, all I can say to you, my good sir, is that you are way too intelligent to utter such a blue pill statement of puritanical judgmentalism. I’ll let a member of your own site (Peter Pan) who wrote the article still on this website – “MGHOW, My Journey” – refute you on that.

            http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/mens-issues/mghow-my-journey/

            You and I have the same goals – to empower men. We may disagree on the methods, but please don’t malign my character, or the character of my women, with hateful rhetoric. As I stated, it really is unbecoming of a human rights activist whom, believe it or not, I actually respect.

          • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

            ” malign the reputation of my women ”

            Pfft! Really? You’re White Kighting for sluts who are slaves to their hormones? You have a strange definition of “upper class.” Money doesn’t buy class.

        • Peter Wright (Tawil)

          Game is an 800yr old manipulation culture that caused an inflated sense of women’s entitlement, so its the first thing that has to go. Take away the heroin and the junkie can go into withdrawals and reform.

          Without game the MHRM -and feminism- would not exist today.

          • Gamer

            Really? So that means the feminists must love me! They must invite me to their lesbian orgies so I can watch!

            Dude, they hate me! They hate the seduction community and they think of us as “rapists in training.” Can’t you give us credit for being hated by your enemies?

            The seduction community is not ideologically monolithic. The version of game I was taught involved precisely dethroning women and getting them to chase you, instead of vice versa – getting women to jump through my hoops, instead of me jumping through hers by awaking her “selfish sexuality” instead of her golddigging nature forged in the crucible of fictitious “sexual generosity.”

          • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

            Gamer,
            Feminists may claim to hate you, yet they can’t keep their hands off of you. They don’t hate the PUA community; they WANT to hate it. The truth is they thrive on the attention and the displays of masculinity. For that, they hate themselves. If sleeping with PUAs weren’t rewarding, feminists wouldn’t do it. It IS rewarding, however. PUAs pander to and encourage female hypergamy, which is already so far out of control, it dominates just about every aspect of society.

          • Gamer

            Suzanne:

            Slut shaming is misandry, as Peter Pan brilliantly articulated in the avoiceformen.com link that I gave in my response to Paul. A woman can think she is being selfish in bed or generous. If she thinks she’s being generous, or doing the man some kind of a favor, she is a matriarch who demands male supplication and financial extortion. “Sluts,” as you call them, are men’s only true female friends, as Peter Pan stated in the article I linked to.

            As for me “white knighting:” Please! I doubt Paul would appreciate someone insulting his woman. He claims he doesn’t want to shame men for their sexual preferences, but he apparently has no problem shaming women for theirs if they don’t conform to blue pill matrix-approved sexual morality.

            I’ll stick with my sluts. The “dysfunctional skeezers” are the non-sluts demanding slavery in exchange for the “sacrifice” of having sex with men. This isn’t about “white knighting.” It’s about knowing where your self-interest as a man lies.

          • Gamer

            Suzanne: Really? Show me one PUA who is sleeping with feminists and I’ll show you a suicidal masochist!!!

            Do you know what I’d have to do to sleep with a feminist AND avoid a false rape charge?

            1. Wire my bedroom with high tech visual and audio surveillance.

            2. Make sure she’s on top.

            3. Ask for verbal consent during every step of sexual progression.

            4. Sign a written consent form with a lawyer present.

            5. Make sure I suck in bed, otherwise she can claim that her out of control orgasms “overwhelmed her free will at the moment” thus freeing her up to accuse me of “rape via sensory overload” despite our contract, etc…

            How crazy do you think I am? PUAs are not suicidal. A part of feminists’ reptilian brains wish they could sleep with us, I’m sure, but they always end up with beta nice guys/manginas/white knights, or just cats, which they see as “more cuddly, less rapey,” lol. They wish they could press a button and vaporize the seduction community, side by side with the MRM, so our two communities have that in common. We should build on that, I think.

            As for hypergamy, oh man, that’s another discussion which gets into the myth of monogamy. This is why I’m in an open relationship. A woman trades up when a man is no longer a challenge. Sexual competition, on the other hand, creates incentive.

          • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

            Gamer,
            If they weren’t immersed in feminism (whether they call themselves feminists or not) they wouldn’t be “sex-positive” and on the prowl for cock. They are essentially prostitutes, and to them sex is a commodity, though they “pay-off” isn’t necessarily money. The pay-off is the “satisfaction” of being in charge of their sexuality, without obligation. Men of course, do this too, and prostitution has a place in every society. But it is still prostitution – recreational and not productive. Being productive (and I don’t mean utilitarian) builds real confidence and give long term satisfaction. Morality has nothing to do with it. PUA, as a “lifestyle,” is shallow and narrowly focused; any man who wants to build his confidence and his satisfaction with himself, needs a much broader focus when addressing his masculinity. PUA is all about a man’s relationships with females, as such it renders his relationships with other MEN as secondary and narrowly defined – their roles become limited to little more than wing men, competitors, or lowly chumps.

            It is men’s relationships with the mothers of their children (not prostitutes) that motivated men to build civilization. It is men’s relationships with OTHER MEN which made it possible to build civilization.

            The PUA premise that sexual relationship/Alpha confidence transfers to other aspects of men’s lives, is sound. By the same token however, self confidence born of non-sexual (read “broader”) accomplishments, transfers just as well to the sexual relationship realm.

            In the end, focusing primarily on women offers most men less satisfaction than having a broader “primary” focus.

          • Stu

            @Suz

            Actually I’d have to side up with Gamer on many of his points. And one thing your definitely wrong about Suz, is your assumption that the sort of women Gamer is talking about are feminists. I have known many of them, slept with many of them, had long term friendships with many of them, and some of them I’ve been very close friends, (with benefits) for over a decade. The only women I have enjoyed friendships and sex with, without hassles, mind games, and attempts at control are from this lifestyle. They are about the furthest thing from prostitutes as you can get.

            To liken someone to a prostitute because they are getting the pleasure of the sex as payment, that is a stretch. The hallmark of a prostitute is having sex for gain of a material nature, not physical pleasure, not emotional reasons, weather that is romantic, or erotic in nature. They don’t have sex for the sake of the sex, they have it for the material benefits they can extract from doing it.

            Who cares what arrangements lead to the creation of civilization. Those arrangements are impossible now, rendered impossible by feminism. As long as men keep “maning up” and giving women the sort of relationships they want, that is just sending the signal to woman that things have not gone too far yet, and there is room for some more ramping up of the draconian laws, and striping more rights from men. Why should men give a fuck if civilization starts to collapse anyway, it’s not serving us anymore. Should we continue sticking to our part of the bargain even though women don’t have a single obligation to us anymore. I say no. And if woman don’t want that to happen, then they better get on board with getting rid of feminism and getting rid of all their legal innovations along with it, because if they don’t, this will continue until even the biggest pussy begging desperado and mangina won’t have a bar of a marriage or defacto relationship.

            As for your comments on recreational sex, all sex is recreational unless it is done for the specific purpose of producing the child. Even with life long monogamous couples. They don’t have sex with each other because they love each other, they have sex because they feel like a fuck.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/MrShadowfax42 MrShadowfax42

          Whoever preached sexual surrender?

          As far as I can see, that’s what you are doing.

          • Gamer

            Establishing the kind of sex life I want is the opposite of surrender. On the other hand, suggesting that men “stock up on tissues and porn” because anything other than celibacy will apparently ruin their lives, due to a bunch of crazy bitches, is an attitude of fear and voluntary castration.

          • http://www.youtube.com/user/MrShadowfax42 MrShadowfax42

            Gamer in reply to MrShadowfax42
            “Establishing the kind of sex life I want is the opposite of surrender. On the other hand, suggesting that men “stock up on tissues and porn” because anything other than celibacy will apparently ruin their lives, due to a bunch of crazy bitches, is an attitude of fear and voluntary castration.”

            It’s quite arrogant of you to assume that those of us who abstain are NOT working to establish the kind of sex life they want, wouldn’t you say? Not everything in life is an “easy win” and funnily enough some things are worth fighting for and, yes, making short-term sacrifices for.

            Further, you seem to assume that everybody else posting here wants the same sex life that you apparently currently enjoy, ie perverting and misrepresenting their own character in order to have sex with somebody they are basically manipulating. In my opinion that is an order of magnitude less dignified than being a street-corner hooker. Just saying.

            Why not look to develop some self-respect and not decide major life decisions based on slavery to your own penis?

            You’re like somebody with a recreational drug habit, where the local stash is contaminated with boot polish and engine oil and you just don’t give a shit, you keep on tokin’. Then you come here to try to give us tips on how to scrape off the worst of the shit before we take a drag ourselves.

            Thanks but no thanks.

          • Gamer

            You need to explain to me how I am perverting or misrepresenting my identity/character in order to get laid. I don’t lie.

            As for manipulation, what’s that? It’s everything. There’s nothing undignified about bypassing the matriarchy by psychologically manipulating the manipulators – while you insist on doing everything the hard way and won’t enjoy yourself until every other man can do the same. I’m all for helping other men do the same, but psychological tactics should work together with legal tactics, not ridicule each other.

            That being said, if I sounded super arrogant or disrespectful, I sincerely apologize. And if you genuinely wish to deny and suppress your own sexuality, not out of fear, but out of a genuine position of strength that justifies cutting yourself off from an important part of your humanity, then more power to you, even though it is indeed beyond my understanding.

            As for your drug analogy, I’m not sure how it’s “contaminated,” unless you’re talking about matriarchal laws that can be bypassed with game (no anti-male law is worth its paper unless a woman’s psychology chooses to invoke it).

            And no, I don’t assume everyone here wants my sex life. My sex life is very specific. I was just speaking about celibacy vs. non-celibacy.

            And as for being a slave to my penis: See my response to Theaverageman concerning mutual dependence equality vs. mutual independence equality.

            Oh, and why would you say I’m scraping off “the worst of the shit?” A woman is either a slut or a slave-master.

        • Grumpy Old Man

          “Desire to malign the reputation of my women” WTF? You arrogant bastard, I don’t think even the women you may be involved with would appreciate this comment. You assume way too much of all the men and women here in my humble opinion. We’re busy here in this forum talking to each other as equals…both men and women working specific issues. Then you come along and presume to educate. Fuck you Mr. You have no clue. We are not playing games with each other here. That’s the point of it!

          Son of a bitch where do guys like you come from?

          A bit Grumpy today!

          • Gamer

            Referring to my women as “dysfunctional, low rent skeezers” is precisely maligning their reputations. What would you call it?

            And I don’t think I talked to anyone here as anything other than an equal. Everything I ever said here was in the spirit of helping others. The condescension is coming from others.

    • http://www.genderratic.com Typhonblue (Asha James)

      “This “masculine lover/castrated provider” dichotomy has worked well for women”

      It’s not a dichotomy any more then there is a “courtesan/scullery maid” dichotomy.

      Both are slaves fulfilling certain roles for the Master. You can talk all day long about the skills a scullery maid needs to elevate herself to the status of courtesan but at the end of the day you’ve done nothing to address the underlying slavery.

      ” But she will only submit to masculinity, while dominating and subjugating the feminine males via sexual shaming, asexual pretensions, and even legal action in order to keep the beta ignorant of the other reality.”

      Yep. Masters sure do love courtesans with a bit of spirit in them. Until they don’t.

      Usually around the time the courtesan’s six pack starts looking like a keg and she starts to get a bit of salt in with the pepper. Or she starts to assert any real independence.

      • Gamer

        I’m having difficulty understanding your post. Perhaps you can update your terminology and clarify what you meant. Who is the master and who is the slave in your hypothetical?

        • Near Earth Object

          Have you considered updating your terminological resume?

        • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

          Of course you are having difficulty understanding TyphonBlue. She is 17 times more intelligent than you. Oh, and she is not one of “your” women.

          Let me ask you one last (and I mean that literally) question, oh master and lord of sociobiological determinism and shopworn, anybody’s pussy. Is there some part of your genius that can read the writing on the wall right here and now? Dude, no one is buying any of your shit as relevant to this forum. You are getting shit on by both men and women. The down votes dominate.

          Now, I am the last person to stop saying something just because it is unpopular. But I am smart enough to not carry a message to a place where it being accepted is totally hopeless. You won’t see me in exchanges with feminists at Jezebel. I think I had one brief exchange with Roosh in his comment, but he and quickly established that we live on different planets.

          So I did the smart thing and left it alone.

          If you are not smart enough to figure out where you are not welcome, then you are not smart enough to tell me shit about men or women.

    • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

      Excellently insightful, thank you for that, Gamer

      Game exhibits two primary attributes:

      1) Pedestalization of the female and gynocentrism
      2) Insightful exposition of female machinations, behavior and psychologies or iow her callous, deceitful and duplicitous manipulations

      By all means, nuke number 1 into oblivion, but need we throw the baby out with the bathwater? Gynocentrism aside, are men not better off armed with the awareness?

      • Gamer

        Where is the gynocentrism? Is it in our desire in the seduction community to get laid? The community precisely teaches you to take women off the pedestal and get them to start chasing you, if you ever hope to be attractive to them.

        • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

          “if you ever hope to be attractive to them.”

          Bingo.

          • feeriker

            I doubt Gamer is smart enough to realize the irony in that sentence.

        • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

          First off, making no judgments, I want to empathize with you in the flack you’re receiving here, no glory for the meak ;-)

          Their is some emotion around this as it’s an issue that seems to persist without anyone really being able to fully and decisively crack the nut. I am receptive and appreciative to what you’re saying. The notion of silos and walls between game and MHRA I think serves some purpose, but I’m not sure it isn’t ultimately somewhat deleterious as well. That said, for this community to be more politic focused and the game community to be more guerrilla interpersonal focused may be an effective division of focus for the time being.

          With regard to your reply as to the question of game and female focus, there are a couple of things at play here:
          1) nature vs. nurture
          2) people’s inclination to think and speak in terms of absolutes rather then spectra

          1) Nature vs Nurture: Chicken and egg scenario: does game assist in meeting existing male needs? Or does engagement in game and game culture encourage elevated male focus and attentions placed on female needs desires wants, pussy, etc., and contribute to tying the male identity and esteem to the female?

          Much of the friction between MHRA and gamer lies here in this paradox. To the extent that ‘game’ can be approached, incorporated and applied with precision that it only serves a male’s innate needs and desires and does not contribute to him becoming entangled in a web of counter-productive gynocentrism and identity dependency, then it has productive value. However, hopefully you can see phenomenologically how game culture and focus in and of itself can absolutely have the effect of reinforcing the very desire that you claim it satiates, well, let’s just hope that you can :-)

          The point is, it’s a fine line, which is naturally a source of friction.

          2) You state that the specific version of game you studied is not gynocentric specifically because of its particular approach. But in this is the inherent admonition that other brands of game display gynocentrism. Therefore, you go back and forth between defending game in general and defending or promoting your specific brand of it.

          That said, it appears that game is evolving and sounds like it may be doing so in a way that reflects more closely with MHRM perspectives and goals. Such a cross-pollination can only be a good thing.

          I very much appreciate this discussion and have benefited significantly.

          Thank you and godspeed in your endeavors

          • Kimski

            “There is some emotion around this as it’s an issue that seems to persist without anyone really being able to fully and decisively crack the nut.”

            Ask yourself if it’s worth it, considering the possible consequences of the outcome.
            Living on the streets as a homeless was a very real outcome for me, and I’m not going through that again. Ever.
            As far as I can see, the only way to make absolutely sure it won’t happen again, is to remove that power from my partner completely.

        • DarkByke

          Please stop.

    • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

      And one sort of retort, Gamer-

      Can we lose sight of the fact that even if we are successful in jumping through the hoops, playing the part, sculpting our own persons to be that which she submits to, that we have just submitted to her in shaping ourselves to be what she wants? I mean, I guess if that’s your thing, and to the extent that it fulfills needs and wants, it can be appreciated in that respect. Yet still, with the jumping of the hoops, etc. etc., are you really self-actualizing, living your own agency, or just slight-of-hand supplicating?….

      • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

        Perfectly said, IMO. This is the thing with Game. While the knowledge of female predispositions toward thought and conduct is beneficial the gynocentrism could not be more out of place in a place like this.

        Gamers coming here to share their theories on women is like chimpanzees stepping up to teach basic math to a room full of physicists.

        • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

          Paul, thank you very much, it’s an honor.

          It’s really great to have someone who is able to see through the distractions and pull our juvenile heads out of our asses when we get caught up in stupid shit. :-) I know it has helped me.

      • Peter Wright (Tawil)

        “with the jumping of the hoops, etc. etc., are you really self-actualizing, living your own agency, or just slight-of-hand supplicating?”

        Great point Perseus. What’s the point of waking up after 30 years of playing game/s only to realize you hadn’t expressed much of your true self.

        • Gamer

          The idea is that being a masculine (read: attractive) man IS your true self that was stifled by our feminine culture, thus explaining why men have trouble with women. Your true self isn’t to be a feminist stooge/unattractive nice guy.

          • feeriker

            Your “true self” is what it is. If that “true self” doesn’t make horny, self-centered entitlement-princess sluts happy, then so be it. Indeed, a mature, sane male would be falling on his knees thanking whatever deity he believes in for that fact, knowing that the long-term consequences of “vagina worship” will be the destruction of his own soul (and much else).

            Prediction: I have no idea how old you are, but in not very many years, once the “game” wears off and your quarry sees you for what you are (and realizing that the ‘charm of youth’ has worn off), you’ll be experiencing the male version of the lonely, embittered feminist sharing an apartment full of cats.

        • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

          Thank you, Peter

          To play some role for extended time rather than freely experiencing and expressing oneself seems a steep price to pay for some superficial attention and phagina

          That said, I think in the cross-talk on this there is an issue of binary vs analog analysis.

          I credit Gamer for an important point when he says that one of the objectives of game theory is to shed unhealthy overfeminization and to unleash and develop the natural masculinity that has been suppressed and atrophied. This in and of itself seems healthy and consistent with MHRM principles. So the devil is in the details as it becomes a matter of degree. To what degree are we nurturing and cultivating our true nature, and to what degree are we going beyond that and overlapping boundaries, our behavior being dictated by appeal to feminine desires? At this point that answer is not clear, but I do believe it worthy of pursuit thus my interest in this dialogue.

          One might sum it up thusly:
          A male must stop and reflect and ask himself, ‘what portion of my behavior is dictated by appeal to females, either directly or indirectly?’ And he must make the determination as to how much of his time, energy and behavior- if any- is appropriate. Then see if the two match.

          As an aside, I might speculate that gamers would have a tendency to lowball that estimate, but I could be wrong, it’s just a thought.. :-)

      • Gamer

        The typical response to such a question by the seduction community is as follows:

        Liberal feminism and traditional conservatism have de-masculinized our boys, taught them to be castrated nice guys, and made them feel ashamed of their own manhood. This is the reason they are having problems establishing the sex lives they wish – women aren’t attracted to a bunch of castrated wimps (although they love them as providers).

        As such, “sculpting your personality to trigger submission in women” is deprogramming yourself of all the feminist and chivalrous garbage that has poisoned your mind as a little boy, in order to become the real man that nature and evolution created you to be.

        This is not supplicating. This is dominating. Supplicating would be continuing to be that sensitive nice guy that our culture has taught you to be. Deprogramming yourself to become the real masculine man that you were meant to be (and thus attracting women as a consequence) can never be seen as “supplicating to women.”

        • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

          ” “sculpting your personality to trigger submission in women”

          Or you could “sculpt your personality” toward any number of masculine activities, develop confidence in yourself, and be what you consider “successful.” You will have your personal success first (and always) and the women will follow because they find your confidence attractive. But if you have confidence, you don’t give a shit whether women follow or not, because *it’s not about them.*

          Understanding the principles of Game can be useful as a means of re-learning how to outwardly express one’s natural masculinity in a feminized culture, but perfecting Game in order to add notches to one’s bedpost, is more about women than it is about masculinity. That’s the gynocentrism we’re describing.

          • Gamer

            You call it “gynocentrism.” I call it “mutual dependence equality.” I agree that it has to be mutual in order for it to be something other than gynocentrism, hence my love of, as you call them, “women who are slaves to their hormones.” What’s my alternative besides celibacy? Golddiggers? Women who think they’re doing me a favor by fucking me? That would be true gynocentrism.

            And who said I’m not successful?

  • donzaloog

    I love this article. Good work, Paul. You’ll never hear me apologize for being a straight man. I like women. I like intellectual women, I like fun women etc. I don’t like prudes.

    And fuck that objectification noise. Everybody is an object to someone else. Whether it be an object of lust, respect, hatred, love, apathy etc. There’s nothing wrong with that and those can change over time.

  • Mr. J

    Hmmmm……….

  • http://pt-br.facebook.com/aldir.gracindo Aldir

    I was reliefed to read the first line and see that there are still men (there must be more then one) that clearly and publicly says: I like boobs! I like to look at them. I like to look at a woman’s BUTT! Boldly rounded or delicately thin woman’s butt chicks! Yeah, peeplez!!!

  • boston86

    A grand prix driver recently placed his hand in a pinching gesture near the backside of female on the podium and furious articles were written about this objectification.

    I have forever been perplexed by the fact that young women have literally torn the clothes off the back( and bottom) of rock stars in a frenzy of lust for decades and this has never been commented upon. I’ve just read a bio on ACDC and they said one of the most frightening experiences was an appearance in a Melbourne shopping complex. They were scratched, had their hair pulled and crotches groped. Their clothes were torn to shreds and they had to literally run for their lives and escape through a back door. If men did this to a woman they would face years in jail for sexual assault. When women do it it’s cute and funny.

    I think the whole groupie phenomenon is something which should be pointed out when feminists start ranting about sexual objectification

    • stratosphere

      And you’ll probably get a reply like “the groupie phenomenon exists because patriarchy discourages women to produce her own rock music”

  • Gordon Wadsworth

    But.. but.. men are supposed to find attractive only what women tell them they should find attractive. Doesn’t this Paul Elam fellow read the Huffington Post?

    If we’re talking tits, I prefer a B cup, and I especially like athletic body types. I’ve never searched for compliance in a woman, nor am I willing to jump through any hoops myself. I agree with you completely about a non-prudish girl who isn’t scared of exploring her sexuality.

    Nice article, Paul.

  • Steve_85

    All I’m going to say on this topic (Game) is that it works but it comes with a high cost. With a little bit of experimentation, you can literally distill it down to push button -> receive sex.

    What they don’t tell you in game school is that you will hate the person you become while doing it. If you don’t, then you probably have bigger issues than which women will sleep with you.

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suzanne McCarley

      Older PUAs say that all the time, but younger men who tend to know everything would rather worship pussy than listen to wiser men. And who pays attention to wise men these days anyway? Like most people indoctrinated by feminism, Gamer can’t seem to comprehend the existence of what he can’t see – a reality where women are not the center of the universe. He sees, “Women are not the center of the universe” as nothing more than, “Those grapes were probably sour anyway.”

  • http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?tid=451 dhanu

    @donzaloog Personally, I think this serves him good as he is a pussy-whipped mangina. However, the trend itself is sexist and misandric and needs to go. As it stands though, any response from him other than the apology would have had the feminists (and the MSM) up in the arms, something nobody wants. This kind of fear and public shaming (resulting in resigns etc) is the only reason the feminist rules are followed, not because they’re reasonable or liked by everyone. In other words, the feminist empire is built on creating fear and shame as its foundations.

    • donzaloog

      I agree. I saw that link someone posted about Obama resigning over that “sexist” remark. It’s a sad world we live in where calling a woman pretty invokes calls for you to lose your job. Even “The Most Powerful Man in the Free World” is not exempt from this bullshit.

      I think, as unpopular as it would be, this would’ve been the perfect opportunity to shine some light on this misandry in the media. Obama should’ve stood up for himself. He didn’t touch the woman. Was she even present when he said it? And he was right, she is attractive. Is noticing that a crime? Is having eyes a crime? Only if you’re a man.

      And I just realized that my spellcheck doesn’t recognize the word “misandry” Funny.

  • OneHundredPercentCotton

    “And you’ll probably get a reply like “the groupie phenomenon exists because patriarchy discourages women to produce her own rock music”

    Come to think of it, I’ve never seen female rockers (yes, they exist) being mobbed by sexually over charged men.

  • Primal

    The Female Orgasm Law is next, I imagine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y21GbLsreWg That said, this hilarious clip speaks volumes about the reality of male sexual subjugation/enslavement. Since ‘eventually’ getting the connection comes too late from most men, it’d be nice to see some wisdom on how to speed things along a LOT.

    • DarkByke

      Nice find!

  • AUDIO NOIR

    yeah women are taught to judge themselves by their physical attractiveness and, conversely to resent it and blame men rather than compete for their attention which is of course encapsulated by the infamous “women don’t need men for anything” theory so endlessly pushed by the feminazis.

    men are taught to judge their worthiness by 3 things:

    1) how much money they make
    2) how many women are willing to sleep with them
    3) how good they are in a fight with another male

    white knights are especially eager to achieve the last 2 in one fail swoop. kill 2 birds with one stone as they say.

    while the feminazis will do everything in their power to teach anti male sentiments in order to stop women competing for male attention they exploit number 1, 2 and 3 to the fullest possible extent and white knights are so subconciously eager for women’s approval they buy right into it without a second thought.

    i guess privelege is the most addictive drug of all. and just like an addict will resort to just about anything to get their drug so the femininiazis do the same. only difference is the media, the white knights, etc. are just too happy to keep them supplied.

  • CTOH

    You all are Incels for a reason.