Manly

What is a real man?

There are many common answers to this question, and most include service, and sacrifice for others. Usually, for a collective, or for others who are socially superior to the “real man” making that sacrifice.

This is already a slippery definition. Because how do we define socially superior? We might assume the clearly defined hierarchies such as between employers and employees, or elected officials and voters explains this. But in those cases, status is not always so well defined. In fact, it is fluid, and depends on the context in which it occurs.

A hired hand, normally lower than their boss can take on higher status than the boss in the light of hazardous work, hostile workplace, worker dispute and so on. The postures people take in different situations change their relationships of power.

Sometimes a child has more power than a parent. In some cases a victim has more power than who victimizes them. Sometimes more power than who rescues them. In this picture, women are victims needing protection, as we imagine them socially inferior to men. They’re smaller, weaker, and in most minds, the low position in the power relationship.

A “real man” is the one who carries the load created by changes in hierarchy, while everyone pretends he is The Man.

This is the dynamic of power, hierarchy, and expectation placing a “real man” in a position to set aside his own needs, his safety, even his humanity. Serve, protect, sacrifice, and (when convenient for anyone except himself) die.

In a top to bottom social relation, the bottom controls the positive identity of the top. Does this sound like the politics of sexual fetish? It is the same. The control of identity in any top to bottom power dynamic is identical. The weaker party controls the social identity, and the human value of the stronger party.

Of course, everyone knows this deep down. Except that nobody knows any of it, and when pressed – will deny any such dynamic exists.

The social contract demands denial of the truth.

The social contract is the label for a view that an individual’s moral obligations depend on an unstated agreement to form the society in which they live.

One obligation, for men, is an unstated demand to protect women. Even at the cost of hazard, injury or possible death of a “real man” must fill that demand. This is why men carry the legal onus to register for selective military service in the US. Women, face no such demand. It is also why in event of violence towards a woman, men are expected to put themselves in the path of it. Absorbing, and dispensing violence on behalf of a woman. A man who doesn’t disregard his own safety, or dispense violence on behalf of a woman under threat, he’s no man at all. He’s a coward, a shirker, hell, he’s damn-near doing violence against that woman himself if he doesn’t protect her using whatever level of force is needed.

This is a basic element of the social contract. It is not just an expectation to assume risk, but to engage in direct violence because somebody else’s actions created a situation of threat to a woman, even when that woman’s own actions are the cause. Step up, protect, and pay, that’s what a man does. And what he gets in exchange is a social identity, to be a human – not despised. Just that, nothing more. Just recognition as a human being. At least, that used to be the deal. Scanty and one sided and deadly as it was, it was enough. It worked. But that is in the past. That is no longer the case.

Roll the clock forward for 50 years of a narrative in which men are bad, and women are not just good, they’re victims. They’re victims of men.

Men’s role in society was always to protect, serve, provide and dispense violence in protection of weaker individuals or in protection of women. Or to absorb violence for all those motivations and (when convenient for anyone but themselves) to die – We’ve spent a half century re-characterizing all that into a story of male oppression of women. And male identity, which was traded – your recognition as a human being if you were male – for your sacrifice, your provision for others, sold to you as if it was a privilege – this identity has been taken out of the bargain, a piece at a time.

Now we arrive in the present, where it is perfectly acceptable for little girls in kindergarten to wear t-shirts, purchased by their mothers, which say “boys are stupid, throw rocks at them”. In which day time talk shows with live studio audiences laugh openly at the mutilation of a human being who happens to be male.

When movie reviewers losing their audience deem it logical to market themselves by telling the male half of the human race they’re inferior. When men are publicly derided as incomplete females, as walking abortions; aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples.

Oh, yeah, but men are still expected to keep on keeping on, to step up, to serve, to disburse and to absorb other people’s proxy violence, and (when convenient to others) to die. That’s the other half of the social contract, the one still in force.

And men, for their part, are increasingly alert to this one sided rotten deal. A deal, or a contract if you will, a social contract in which men are shit, men are aggressors, men are rapists, men are worthless, but oh yeah, they’d better still step up because otherwise, they won’t have a worthwhile social identity, as determined by the fiat of the weaker sex.

And what is the only possible answer to this state of affairs for sane men, human men, humane men, and self respecting men to give to everyone else still participating in that old, crooked, broken, and one sided deal which for men amounts to you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t?

Fuck it, I’m out.

And now let’s talk about the social consequences of a practical ethic of non-violence.

For many men rejecting the dysfunctional and toxic model of acceptable male identity, self definition includes a rejection of violence. This means a rejection of their own utility as receptacles for violence, as well as use as dispensers of force.

In addition to having no accepted path to positive identity, men are increasingly not afforded the protection of law. Men can be murdered, mutilated, and raped – and these events are treated as comedy – not just in fiction, but when they happen to real men in the real world. When men are killed by women, our courts, in the face of proven culpability – manufacture histories of abuse. Obviously, past grievances, when they’re real, have always been the basis for justifiable homicide. Indeed, on my way back from work today, a man driving a Toyota cut me off in traffic. Two intersections farther on, I signaled him by blinking my headlights. We fought to the death on the boulevard; when the police arrived, I simply explained his rude driving and they understood. They gave me a medal. Nice job slugger, you’re a real man.

In January 2011, a New Brunswick resident named Crystal Dawn MacKenzie walked free after her acquittal for the knife-killing of her common-law husband, whose name doesn’t matter, because he’s male…and dead.

McKenzie’s lawyer, David Kelly, pointed out that “Of course she had other options,” but that she was drunk at the time, oh and also female, so a violent history between the acquitted killer and her murdered husband was used to excuse making a choice to stab that man to death. Her defender said this, and she walked.

The standard expectation of men to automatically resolve violence affecting anyone else is what, in a world where men are hated, is no longer acceptable.

Dispensers and receptacles of violence, for anyone but themselves, in a narrative where men are no longer humans with rights. No. Protectors whose quiet presence everywhere in life is a guarantee of safety of others. No. Men, those stoic citizens who, in a moment of violent crisis could always be counted on to step forward without regard for their own mortality. No.

The new deal is men, after half a century of public vilification, marginalization, and the ongoing removal of their human rights and human identities – men are saying no to the expectation that they will dispense the proxy violence of others, or absorb it.

At this point, a reader might wonder what men? What weak men, sissy men, failures, and “not a real man” would ever contemplate refusing to step instantly forward in protection of a woman? What kind of faggot would shrink away, considering his own safety before the safety of a woman or anyone weaker than himself? This is the ethic of non-violence, refusing receipt and refusing to dispense the violence of other people’s proxy.

And that is the consequence men must face, who dare to think of themselves as humans worthy of even being considered human, rather than disposable. It surely takes brass balls to be such a sissy. That is the consequence of an ethic of non-violence. A real man is disposable. That’s what real means, at least when the definition of real man sits in the hands of those who benefit from that manly disposability.

This is the driver of an emerging ethic of male identity in which men, awake to their own status as barely human disposable utilities, are saying no. In increasing numbers men are defining themselves, but as men increasingly demand recognition of their own humanity they earn a constantly escalating torrent of public scorn. Men refusing the definition of themselves as disposable appliances are told with rising volume that any move towards their own identity defined apart from their utility to others is not self worth, it is hate. You just hate women. You’re a misogynist. Men told when they refuse receipt or disbursal of the proxy violence of others, that refusal of violence is violence. Men standing up for their own humanity do so against a climate of censure, hatred, and depraved lies. But those lies, vile, hateful, and condemning of men who dare to claim their own humanity; those are the lies denying men any human identity, shaming them back to disposability. Get back on the treadmill, provide, protect, and (when convenient) die – and we’ll grant that you’re “real men”.

And what is the public narrative in response to men declaring themselves human beings apart from utility and convenient disposability? You just hate women.

You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women and you want to send them back to the kitchen to make you a sammich. And the so called men’s rights movement is a hate movement against women.

Who would repeat such despicable calumny? Rebecca Davis of the Daily Maverick:

…perhaps it’s premature to start worrying too much about the “second sexism” when the first one seems so prevalent still.[1]

 

Soraya Chemaly writing for the Huffington Post claims that male targeted beatings against non-heterosexual boy are actually aimed at women and girls. Oh yes, boys subject to violence are not the victims, girls are truly the victims when boys are beaten. Don’t believe me? Here’s the quote:
[2]

“beating the gay” out of children, especially boys who are “more like” you, is aimed at you.[women]”

 

Rhiannon and Holly; Two Vagendas, One Keyboard of the New Statesman claim misogyny and conservatism:

these men are attempting to fight back against vagina-wielding harpies by reasserting their masculinity in a way that is not only misogynistic but also deeply conservative[3]

 

According to the Simon Fraser University women’s centre web site “masculinity denigrates women”[4] Jessica Valenti has repeatedly claimed that online men’s rights activism is driven by misogyny. Male self actualization is characterized as hatred of women.

Clementine Ford of “how to spot a misogynist” quacked:

If you’re not trained in the spotting of smug, self-satisfied misogynists, you might not know the general thrust of their shtick.

 

Amada Marcotte claims:

…if you scratch an MRA, you find a guy upset that someone is keeping him from beating his wife and kids.

 

That’s right, according to Marcotte, in spite of thousands of blogs explaining the violations of human rights – and male targeting violence, the use of male rape and male mutilation as comedy, it’s really all a ruse so men can get back to beating their wives and children.

According to Arthur Goldwag of the southern Poverty Law Center on the Men’s Rights Movement:

…women haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws, and false rape accusations.

 

Goldwag skipped over “misogyny” and went straight for “woman haters” – although at least he managed to name a few of the areas of concern for men struggling for recognition as human beings.

But in every case, and hundreds more not listed here – according to the opposition, men arguing for the human rights of men and boys really just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women. You just hate women, but if you give up on the foolish notion that as a man you can have an identity as a human being, get back to being disposable, we might just allow that you’re almost a human.

No thanks.

♦♦♦

[1] http://dailymaverick.co.za/article/2012-05-22-the-second-sexism-discrimination-against-males
[2] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/soraya-chemaly/message-to-girls-about-re_b_1518849.html
[3] http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/lifestyle/2012/05/mens-rights-zeitgeist
[4] http://www.sfuwomenctr.ca/faqs.html
[5] http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/love-sex/6837194/How-to-spot-a-misogynist
[6] http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2011/09/22/mra-says-yep-were-domestic-abusers/

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  • droobles

    This is my first comment. I’m from Brazil and ended up here after a long time trying to be politically active. You see, it is nigh impossible to bring sensible, rational change around here and it is easy to see why: Extremists everywhere, be they from religion or any ideology.

    And soon I learned about the real standings of feminism and men. I found this site by chance and wished to thank the MRM. I was afraid I was the only one who found all the feminist rambling weird and most of the groups online in Brazil against feminism are quite insane (3~4 months ago some people went to jail because of hate content, and they deserved it).

    Right now, a friend showed me a brazilian blog talking about the discussion in the USA about the rape laws, and the possibility of putting the burden of proof on the accused. I was shocked when the comments started and the “womyn” found that so interesting.

    However, nowadays I can overcome it, but a few years ago I really was lost on this identity of “man”. I may have been depressed for a very long time, but as a man I just took it and kept going on. How naive, as soon as I took the red pill I feel less down by the day.

    So, just wanted to give my thanks, and probably be more active at AVfM and here at home.

    • Paul Elam

      Thank you and welcome. Can you please provide links to the stories of anti-feminists going to jail in your country? Thanks in advance, and again, welcome!

      • droobles

        I guess I am only going to have links in portuguese. It happened at the 23rd of march.

        http://www.dpf.gov.br/agencia/noticias/2012/marco/operacao-intolerancia-prende-responsaveis-pelo-blog-silvio-koerich201d

        Fact is they deserved, the were in favor of killing people because of color, raping and whatnot.

        The consequence is that the MRM in Brazil is quite weak because of that right now.

        • Paul Elam

          Thank you for helping out. I read the article, and while I do not agree with jailing people for speech, I agree, if what was said was true, those people are scumbags, not MRAs.

          I have not seen the actual posts in question yet, but I am always cautious about these things. As a men’s activist who has been the subject of more lies than I can possibly recall, I tend to view accusations with heightened scrutiny.

          I will look into this more, but as I said, if the charges are true, we need some Brazilian MRA’s, real activists, not scumbags, to step up and speak the message.

          It makes me especially glad to welcome you here, and thanks again for the introduction and link.

  • mongo

    A real man doesn’t take any notice of anyone else’s definitions (and he can probably make a sandwich without making a political statement out of it).

  • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

    Bookmarking and sharing again! I know some people who need to see it…

  • amoeba

    “…if you scratch an MRA, you find a guy upset that someone is keeping him from beating his wife and kids.”-Marcotte

    Wow!! That Marcotte is so observant! What an intellectual giant!! That is the most pathetic and childish statement I’ve heard about us so far. I was physically abused by a self proclaimed feminist, who got lots of sympathy from people in spite of the horrible things she did. That, my friends, is just one of the reasons I became an MRA.

  • Rper1959

    Thanks JTO “What is a real man?” no doubt the answer is different for all of us, because we deifine our own humanity and maleness, unique to our own circumstances, rather than having it defined and forced upon us by others, Well at least thats how it should be and increasingly how it is, as more red pill converts reject traditional male utility, protect, provide and procreate, in favour of going their own way.
    As you say “Fuck it , I’m out”

    • JGteMolder

      Defining a real man is pretty easy actually:

      Any human being that has a penis, no breasts, and does not consider herself a woman trapped in a man’s body, or has no penis, or has breasts, but considers himself a man trapped in a woman’s body.

  • Kimski

    What is a ‘real man’ ?

    I don’t really think there is an answer to that question, and as JtO points out here, that definition is almost always made by those in a weaker position, with something to gain from labeling a man as such. It has always appeared to me as a trick question by all definitions, and I’m wondering if I’ve ever heard a man say this shit to another mans face. I honestly don’t think so. It would come across as ridiculous and stilted, no matter the circumstances.
    I think I once heard a man saying: ‘Now, there’s a real man’ about John Wayne, but he was defining the character the actor played, and not the man. What’s worthy of note about that event is that Wayne played a loner who had abandoned everything, to go out in the wild and live as a hermit.

    I do however know what a wise man is.

    That is a man who asks himself the following question, before doing anything for anybody, or even lifting a finger:

    ‘What’s in it for me?’

    Of course, today the answer to that question, in light of a broken social contract and the everlasting disposability required, very often leads up to the conclusive:

    ‘You can all just go fuck yourselves. I’m out of here’.

    I think I’ll prefer ‘wise’ and alive over ‘real’ and dead, any day of the week.
    Just sayin’..

  • Free Human Being

    Thank you for this article JTO.

    Men as a social utility is a subject that needs much examination. I personally think it is a position from which a lot of ground can be gained on moderates.

  • Tawil

    The catch phrase for the MRM is no longer “Hero or Zero?”, but rather “Hero is Zero”.

    Screw the death medal – give me my life instead.

  • andybob

    Male identity has always been artfully manipulated to serve the agendas of others. The fact that violence is woven into the fabric of this identity speaks to the gravity of the stakes involved. The violence we can provoke and endure has been exploited through the ages by history’s most unscrupulous players.

    Feminists, who never fail to under-estimate the essential decency and intelligence of men, are overplaying their hand. More and more men are refusing to be harnessed. Mr JTOs article is a powerful rallying cry to those who are reclaiming their dignity and independence.

    No wonder the Matrix is floundering around with wheezy old shaming language and increasingly shrill pleas to the white knights to contain the MRM. Too late. One of your most inspiring articles, Mr JTO. Bravo.

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

      “Feminists, who never fail to under-estimate the essential decency and intelligence of men, are overplaying their hand. More and more men are refusing to be harnessed. Mr JTOs article is a powerful rallying cry to those who are reclaiming their dignity and independence.”

      Stealing this to put with the OP on FB.

      *goosebumps!*

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

    amandamarcotte.org

    smirk…

    • James Huff

      This should be done with every high profile feminist out there……what needs to be done to make this happen?

  • Arvy

    “… according to the opposition, men arguing for the human rights of men and boys really just hate women.”

    Not quite yet, but they’re pushing me closer to it every day.

    It’s an accusation with many close parallels throughout the entire global political sphere. All critics of US interventionist geopolitical policies are “anti-American.” All critics of Isreal’s territorial occupation activities and treatment of Palestinians are “anti-Semitic.” Etc., etc.

    The problem for such reflexive blanket accusations against all critics, of course, is that they ultimately become meaningless, losing all of their force and effect even in those cases where they might once have had some actual legitimacy. And, for that reason among others, I say we should encourage the feminists to keep right on running their shallow appreciation of and accusations against men’s rights advocacy into the ground. It’s a very risky strategy for them in the longer run.

  • andybob

    Sorry for going OT, but guess who was entrusted to present an objective review of David Benatar’s new book, “The Second Sexism” in Daily Life?

    Clementine Ford. Remember her?

    http://clementineford.tumblr.com/

    Needless to say, Ms Ford doesn’t even try to contain her snarky condescension as she revels in her fallacious, feminist fantasy land. She even throws in a reference to women earning only 2/3 of men’s salaries in the doomed hope that her readers are all drunken trolls from Radfemhub.

    http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/the-fear-of-women-taking-over-20120529-1zgd6.html

    Mr JTO has already decimated Ms Ford’s credibility earlier this year.

    http://australianmisandry.blogspot.com/2012/05/clementine-ford-calling-fellow.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AustralianMisandry+%28Australian+Misandry%29

    Another epic fail to counter the MRA with anything other than flimsy dishonesty and transparent howlers.

  • AntZ

    10/10 well done

    It makes me happy to know that the MRM continues to strengthen and grow, and the SPLC continues to shrink into irrelevance, and one day none of us will remember who they are.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

    Yes yes yes JTO great article and I like this very much but more to the point let’s talk about me for fuck’s sake.

    OT but is it really ?

    Stay ready and clasp your dud-clusters for ‘The Dr. F Show.”

    That’s right, “The Dr. F Show” via Blog Talk Radio, where the narc from down under will be your nasty meat puppet calling in the drongos and the dull witted peddlers of misandry and giving them a call they won’t forget.

    You know it’s true, and secretly you want my babies to hold aloft and shout out to the world “Thank god for Dr. F and his bad ass cafe attitude.”

    Me and a telephone against a flat skulled tetrapod of misandry and who the hell do you think will come off second best ? They will of course, but I am thinking of you mate.

    You. That’s right, you.

    You will have the beer running down each nostril and the wee in your bladders will kiss the insides of your daks and there’s nothing you can do about it.

    Squirm away while I ring the shitters on love and flowers and the extra smiles we all want, because you know you’ll love that and the bloody rest of it.

    Quite frankly I am too old, bored and jacked off to be the nice bloke anymore.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

      Yes the word is out about the show, I have already had a request from ABC for syndication.

    • Stu

      This is sort of going to be like…….Les Paterson Saves the World……right lol

  • DruidV

    A real Man asks:
    “What’s in it for me, lady?”
    A real Man never settles for “The pleasure of her company…” as an acceptable answer.

    A real Man asks;
    “Why should I dispense or absorb violence on behalf of others (females)?”
    A real Man never settles for “Because she’s your mother, sister, wife (or any other female simply because she’s female), and it’s your duty as a mayun!!!” as an acceptable answer.

    A real Man asks;
    “Where is all of my child support money going and how is it being spent?”
    A real Man never settles for “Don’t worry, it’s being used correctly and besides, there’s nothing you can do about how your ex is spending it, anyway…” as an acceptable answer.

    A real Man asks;
    “Why would you want to chop off the end of my newborn son’s penis, ‘doctor’?”
    A real Man never settles for; “Because you don’t want him to stand out in the locker room…” as an acceptable answer.

    A real Man refuses to register for the draft. Period!

    A real Man rejects all sports and sports talk and instead stays focused on the real world. A real Man HATES bread and circuses.

    A real Man unabashedly calls a skank out on her tramp stamps, scrap metal shoved through her skin and slutty attitude. A real Man laughs at her and encourages other Men to do the same.

    A real Man is all about bros before hoes…

    A real Man knows when to STFU and GTFO, before she calls the police to come beat on him, either for revenge over perceived sleights, out of spite, or simply because she is bored…

    There are so many more of these “Real Man” mannerisms, but these will do for a start.

    Okay, one more…

    Real Men GTOW and FTSU!!!

    • Tawil

      Now we are talking true manhood… great examples DruidV.

      Interesting that you threw sport in there… I’ve been lately seeing strong paralells between today’s sport and the entertaiment given by ancient Roman gladiators. I can hardly tell the difference. In both cases there is a social compulsion or pressure to participate in sport as a demonstration of male identity, rather than a spontaneous act of free choice (without pressure).

      • DruidV

        The difference is that “mommy” took away swords and shields and replaced them with leather and rubber balls and plastic helmets.

        After all, we don’t want those ‘deadbeat’ million dollar sports stars killing each other off, right?

        ;)

    • Turbo

      Great list DruidV, and there are certainly more that can be added to the list.

      Just one thing though, can I have my sport back, I do love my sport. I promise too stay focused, I mean, I am here so I think that proves it.

      Cheers mate.

    • Shakaz

      I like some sports and i don’t care to make fun of pierced whores, that is my definition of a real men, that makes your definition of real men meaningless and that is the point of the article.

      • John A

        Good point Shakaz, there can be no definition of what a real man is. That would make the man an object, it would objectify him. What those lists can do is give us a sense of what a real man is. As humans, flaws are part of our make up and by definition every man is flawed.

        DruidV; struth mate, you’ve got to ease up on sport, it’s our national religion. Maybe we can agree to disagree on that? I will concede that sport can be misandric, but not of necessity.

        • DruidV

          I knew that rejecting sports and sports talk would hit a nerve. That’s why I included it. It’s not uncommon at all to be standing there having have a decent conversation and then some loud mouthed alpha sports fan totally derails it with his sports worship. Any meaningful topic of conversation between Men suddenly goes from anything else to being totally dominated by sports.

          Every male involved will want to seem sporty, knowledgeable and manly and that is without fail, all she wrote. “Faking it” to blend in, seems to be prevalent among betas, btw.

          The sports fan hijacks all communications with grunting sounds about this player’s stats and that player’s performance last game.

          Sports talk very quickly takes over like a contagion and I frankly, have to walk away at that point. At least when car talk takes over, there’s something practical at its core and one may actually learn something useful, like how to change a starter out, for example.

          Knowing and reciting the total rushing yards of Mr. Football, is not something I can really use, any more than that of the RBI of Mr. baseball.

          I shall rephrase and suggest that following sports, like anything else, be done in moderation. Worship of and obsession over anything in our culture is a good way to get distracted and diverted. We all know where that leads.

  • Genyooin

    JtO, thank you for a wonderful article.
    I find your articles and videos very informative and refreshing.
    I’ve recently found this site and I’m educating myself on the subject of MRM – although I find it very sad that there are men’s rights and women’s rights. Surely the equality will only be achieved when there’ll be just ‘human rights’ applying to both sexes. We’re all human beings, aren’t we?

    It’s good to see that men are waking up to the fact that they’re imprisoned in the ‘real man’ prison. I hate that expression and think it degrades men to ‘human doings’. It dictates what men should and shouldn’t do and how they should do it, when, where, etc. It takes away the freedom of expressing natural emotions and living life as each and every man would want to.

    Here in Poland many men are trapped into that ‘real man’ absurd. If you’re a man you must be always strong and appear masculine, if not totally macho, at all times – all in the hope of attracting female attention. Only the very young and old men are exempt from that. Showing emotions is ‘allowed’, but only some emotions and to a certain extent. It’s so sad. I know so many women who expect their man to be a ‘real man’ and if he ‘fails’ to be that – they moan and complain and degrade him. In short, for many men here it’s either ‘be a real man’ or ‘no man at all’.

    More men need to wake up to this reality and fight back. Unfortunately, most people here are addicted to blue pills and coming off them will take time…

    Sorry for such a long post but that ‘real man’ absurd always gets my blood boiling.

  • Zerbu

    Great article! Perhaps one of the biggest feminist lies of all time is that violence against women and girls prevalent, ignored and even encouraged.

    Well, they aren’t far off. Just change “women and girls” to “men and boys” and you have a giant truth.

  • http://www.artistryagainstmisandry.com Jade Michael

    I think the first time I truly realized I was never going to be a “real man” was when I was about 14. My mother had picked a fight with our upstairs neighbor (another female). When the neighbor came down and beat on and screamed outside our door, my mother cowered and told me to answer it and to “defend your mother”. I saw no reason to and was visibly uncomfortable with the suggestion. What was I going to do? Beat an adult woman up and risk even more ridicule than the ridicule I would get from my family? Nope. I remained motionless while my mother paced and whispered (she didn’t want the neighbor to know she was home) “are you a fucking sissy…go answer the door…blah blah blah”. I didn’t and the neighbor eventually went back upstairs as I figured she would.

    Later that night after my mother had told my (older) brothers of this event, I was scorned, laughed at and smacked in the face repeatedly, mainly because they had an excuse to do it and get away with it (ironically, they would have reacted the same way I did – none of us were too fond of my mother’s behavior in general). My mother said that it would have been better for me to get in trouble for “doing something” to the neighbor than it was to stand by while she got attacked. Well…my mother wasn’t attacked and the whole thing was eventually forgotten about as our neighbor had a tendency to drink and snort herself into daily stupors. The neighbor moved out not long after that. And so did I.

  • Zarathos022

    “But in every case, and hundreds more not listed here- according to the opposition, men arguing for the human rights of men and boys really just hate women.”

    Open palm, insert face.

    And for the record, I know how to make my OWN sammiches. Thank you very much.

  • keyster

    If your pupils dialate when asked, “Can you see in your mind’s eye a lovely nymph being fucked in the ass?”

    ..you are a Man; at least according to some Wymyns Studies majors. It’s true because they tested it.

    • Kimski

      ROFL, Keyster.
      I’m still not convinced they didn’t throw him out because he actually made poetry that made sense.
      :D

    • JGteMolder

      So, that makes every single last human being, women included, a real man than?

      One’s pupils dilating with the thought: “What the flying fuck is wrong with you!?”

  • http://mrda.wordpress.com MRDA

    I agree with the philosophical egoism expressed in this piece, though I don’t think adopting an “ethic of non-violence” will work for everyone. I can think of many a circumstance when a man might *want* to make a violent intervention, namely, to protect a (not necessarily female) friend, valued family member, etc from physical harm.

    I think what’s more important for a self-directing man is the rejection of the concept of DUTY: the notion that a man *must* be fodder for any hectoring charlatan who would lay claim to his time and energies. This notion is pushed, not only by feminists and their White Knight enablers, but by the more traditionalist/socially conservative males in and out of the “manosphere”, even the ones who claim to have taken “the Red Pill”.

  • keyster

    This is a real gem I didn’t want anyone here to miss.

    MRA Humorist and Raconteur Uncle Elmer writes:

    In broader socio-economic terms, we have given women the opportunity to build on their weaknesses (ability to compete against men) and discouraged them from capitalizing on their strengths (youth and fertility). They compete through artifices of fairness and inclusion that are borne on the backs of an ever-dwindling pool of male supporters.

    We have weakened society as a whole by building on women’s weaknesses in attempts to make them the equal of men, rather than encouraging them in their natural strengths. And while this charade is going on, men are encouraged to adopt feminine attitudes and lifestyles at the expense of their own natural strengths, now deemed unnecessary in the new gender-neutral economy.

    • Arvy

      … except when needed as cannon fodder for certain economic expansion activities (a.k.a. globalization) where the natives are disinclined to accept peaceably, in which case some ad hoc male “un-neutering” may be required by the proponents to neutralize the opponents.

      But yes, a real gem indeed that captures the ongoing trend and its underlying implications quite precisely and succinctly.

      • keyster

        My only small issue, is with “given women the opportunity”.

        To the extent they were denied doing what men do, it was to protect them from danger or endangering others in more physical occupations. Today a blind eye will be turned to their physical limitations and lack of productivity vis a vis men. And men are expected to pick up the slack, out of a sense of chivalry and staying out of the unemployment line. (Manning up and being a “team player”)

        The Big Shift was portraying women in the media as overcoming percieved oppression to prove they’re just as strong and competent as men. As a matter of fact stronger, because they had to fight patriarchy too.

        This put intense pressure on women to live up this cultural ideal of “empowerment and independence”, leading to not only extreme angst and confusion, but even more resentment and distrust of men.

    • Paul Elam

      Ayup, and they are reshaping men in this way because men, as they are born, are too strong for women to compete with in their areas of strength.

      Look at what feminism has directed its male subscribers to do….turn on other men.

      Feminism has not come in three waves. There are only two. The first wave was women turning on men. The second wave is men, the ones who were kowtowed by the first wave, turning on their fellows for the same cause. The job of male feminists is to make other men as weak and docile as they are, so that women will have the illusion of being equal to men in ways which they are not.

      • keyster

        Right.
        So there is no Dominant, only submissives leading other submissives – – tediously abiding by carefully orchestrated co-partner/co-parenting guidelines, as determined by pop culture.

        We have a society of emotionally needy, guilt ridden men and their frustrated, angry women. No one dares Lead, as that’s oppressive and unfair.

  • jack

    I wonder whether it would be a good idea for MRAs actively to campaign against recruitment into their country’s armed forces. The motto would be “I don’t volunteer to defend a country in which I, as a man, have no rights”. It would be a very particular kind of conscientious objection.

    • DruidV

      What are they gonna do, shoot you? Oh…wait.

      *reading up on amendment 2

    • keyster

      The vast majority of Men throughout the ages have willfully volunteered to fight and die for their people and/or country. Forced conscription is typically the exception.

      Within the last 40 years men have joined the military because they wanted to; they like it, they have a sense of duty towards their country, they want college paid for or they simply had nothing else better to do.

      It’s so easy to foment pride, patriatism/nationalism, nobility and honor in men, it’s almost ridiculous. This plays-out in our football and other sports every day.

      • DruidV

        I agree Keyster,
        Still, I worry over the return of a draft, simply because if they really want to they can do it and they will enforce it.

        They really don’t need much of an excuse either. One false flag is all she wrote.

        War is a racket :

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

        • keyster

          Technology has forever changed warfare as we know it. Gone are the days of sending battalions of infantrymen aimlessly into spawling battlefields only to be mowed down by machine gun fire or blown to bits by mortar rounds.

          We’re actually cutting back head count on our forces, from around 1.3 million to 500,000 in the decade to come. There will never be another draft.

          The new war is Terrorism; as in “your civilians are open game”. That’s a war of intelligence, vigilence and precision strikes.

          • Poester99

            Aren’t 80%+ of Americans ineligible to serve in the armed forces?

          • keyster

            If that’s the case, that would mean we only have about 65 million citizens to choose from. Our total military worldwide is 1.6 million, most of which is in the USA and/or USA territories.

            I think we’ll be OK.

            It’s not that easy to get in.
            You have to have a high school diploma and no criminal record and pass a drug screening and be in good enough physical condition to get through basic.
            Sadly, these are requirements that too many of our young men cannot meet today.

          • DruidV

            I pray you are right Keyster. All I know is that they aren’t gonna be grabbing my son and throwing him in front of the cannons, while I draw breath.

    • Raven01

      I really like the idea Jack. But, Keysters last paragraph sums up very nicely one huge obstacle.
      If you do follow through, alimony, child access/custody, et cetera would be good points to make. Contrasted with, the same government asking these boys to risk their lives will not hesitate to throw them under the bus if they should be left while they are overseas, or if they are at home.

  • Mateusz

    As has been noted, the feminists are really doing us a favor with all the blatant hatred and poorly-constructed attacks. Sure, at first, men respond to all the “You just hate women” style comments with renewed effort to prove, “No, I’m really on your side. Really! I’m one of the good ones.” But, a guy can only take so much being beaten down before he stops taking it, and starts to grow a spine. At some point, the man in question will realize that feminists are just attacking men simply to keep them in line. You can only push so far until you reach a limit, and men decide they really don’t enjoy being a punching bag.

    At least, that’s my experience. I got plenty of indoctrination in school and in society at large, being told how much of a worthless, sub-human, abomination they are, before I started to question what I was told. Feminists’ ramping up their hatred will only accelerate the process of men and women questioning the conventional wisdom, and considering the notion that men are deserving of rights too.

  • Mr. J


    ….

    DruidV says, “A real man rejects all sports and all sports talk and keeps focus on the real world…a real man hates bread-and circus”





    ***THANK YOU***


  • Keith

    Personally, I think its time for men to start fighting for labor and output equity. Walk into any retail big box store and observe just who is doing the manual labor. Who is working in the shipping departments. Who is stocking the shelves with 50 and 100 pound products.

    Pay equity is passe and known to be bullshit but labor parity and output equity has never been addressed. Ask any feminist if she/he/it supports labor equity or output parity and watch them scratch their heads. Next time your in a store look and see who is doing the actual physical labor.

    Fuck pay equity I want output parity. If I’m a fireman (person) and standards are reduced for women then give me output parity and labor equity. Same for cops, military, you know ….. the people that make this world turn.

    Regarding “you just hate women” hate is a very strong emotion and many women in my life haven’t proven they are worthy of that much emotional effort from me.

    Regarding ” male violence” I have only one question.
    What would “male violence by proxy” look like?

    Regarding being a “real man” : what does a “real man” look like when you are on Prozac, or anti-depressants, or lithium, or hormone therapy, or alcohol, or fucking crack (but not your own).

    I went to my doctor last week and asked to be put on prescription masculinity……..did I mention my doctor is a woman. She told me to drop my pants and bend over. I’m inserting a suppository in your rectum, but don’t worry she said its just a placebo. Then why the hell are you doing it I asked. Its just a distraction while I empty your wallet she replied.

    Great article JTO, by the way isn’t “marcotte” a pasta stuffed with that smelly grated cheese they call a rape?

  • Keith
  • Jay

    John the Other – what a great article. Great execution, hitting the nail on the head. To quote my favorite writer Kyle L. “maybe one day men will no longer be considered the disposable cogs of society”. Somehow, I doubt it. I really, really doubt it. To, you, Paul and everyone who contributes to this site. I have since I was a child recognized the evil of misandrism that is the cornerstone and the complete ideology of radical feminism. Yet, somehow it is considered good. Yes, misandrism is considered good by mainstream media and society. Thank you for nicely bringing together the obvious – but unfortunately, it is not at all obvious for the average person in society who just believes all the bull he/she is told.

    • Turbo

      You are correct Jay, but be enlightened as you are, and be excited, as you should be. Because it will not happen tomorrow, but it is happening slowly, and then more quickly by the day. We will win, because the enemy is in retreat, recent events prove it. Stick with us, we will get equality for men, that much is clear. Hang in there Jay, cause we have no other choice.
      The job will get done, this site proves that.

  • limeywestlake

    This may be totally off-topic, but please bear with me as I feel as though my head is about to explode into a million shards. This evening, the missus takes my youngest boy to the local school to attend cub scouts for the very first time (up here in Canada they call them the Beaver Scouts.)
    Now, the missus is down with my MRA-ing and she often points out misandry to me when she comes across it her daily life.
    Having put the kids to bed, she turns to me and says that there was one thing about attending the Beaver Scouts that she found rather unsettling. To get to the point, the issue in question was that there were – shock, horror! – girls in attendance, wearing the uniform – yes, the MALE scout uniform!
    Rather perturbed, she asks one of the people in charge there whether or not little boys could join the Girl Scouts and the answer was a snigger and a definite ‘no.’
    So what I want to know is this: why is it okay for little girls to infiltrate a boys group, yet forbidden when it is vice-versa.
    I am so mad I am afraid I am going to choke.

    • John A

      For women equality is a right, not a responsibility. So she can be equal in one context and protected in another, she can move seamlessly backwards and forwards through equality and protection. The trick for men is to correctly ascertain which stage she is in and respond accordingly.

      When I was in scouts (in 1970s Australia) the same thing happened, but at age 15. We went from playing rough, physical games and doing constructive things like throwing rotten fruit at each other, to sitting around and talking. Oh, we got to play volleyball, but don’t be too rough on the girls.

      BTW, would you let your daughter join the beavers?

      • limeywestlake

        It would be hypothetical as I do not have a daughter. But if I did, the answer would be no.

    • kiwihelen

      In the early 80s when my brother was in Scouts, I was dead envious and refused to join Guides because the boys did interesting stuff and the girls got to do naff stuff.

      I now understand that it would not have been fair to them to have a girl in the troop, because of the assumptions and concessions that would have been made for my being less strong etc.

      But I was still jealous.

      • Kimski

        I think you just described the driving force behind feminism with that comment, kiwihelen.

  • MGTOW-man

    A real man? Most males out there wouldn’t know real manhood if the concept somehow morphed into a giant snake and bit them in their faces. They are too hung up on letting other men (and women) tell them how they are supposed to act, be, and think. Today’s average “men” are puppets, cowards, feminized wimps, fools, liars, and customers—yes customers—because they absorbed the crap that their fathers and other men impressed upon them… “get the girl, no matter how many lies you must tell…or else you can’t be a man.”

    Males care too much about winning and competing but find themselves complacent with fitting in with other males at minimum. They defer to women and the herd mentality of other males to determine their own worth and whether or not they get to be a man. …and it means sooooooo much to them, so much in fact, that they allow the world to ruin over it.

    When we change that weakness, we change the world!

    It is the above manhood rules that are causing males to cave in to feminists even though they darned well know that women are not right all the time—even when they know that allowing manipulative, exploitative, femi-scheming to run rampant and change everything is screwing up natural dynamics and stuff—which goes against every shred of decency and commonsense.

    Feminists aren’t winning because they are correct; they are winning because men aren’t fighting. Men are leaving the playing field all to women and feminists to do as they practically please—regardless of how much doing so screws up the futures of boys—proof that the average modern male is clueless about real manhood. Real manhood REQUIRES a male to defend his sex…no matter what it costs him, and to NEVER lose his bearings over women. You simply cannot undermine yourself and your own sex and still call yourself a man. NOPE!

    Me, I do not defer to women or the herd mentality of wheel-spinning, supposed hardwiring-tethered, ego-obsessed males to validate my sense of man-worth. I am a full man of my own accord, worth, power, existence, opinion, fortitude, volition, self-respect and any other entity—abstract or not. I own, power, and operate my own control panel and never leave it to others to determine how I am to behave, which usually ends up meaning I have to abandon myself to live my life for others—whatever THEY need. None of that for me. There is more to me than my utility for others.

    It is my life; I will live it as I deem worthy. There isn’t a man or woman on this earth that can rob me of my sense of true manhood. Women and kids are definitely optional when it comes to manhood. Not all real men are fathers and husbands, just as not all fathers and husbands are real men. The two are not related. Those who disagree are living in pretend-world myth-land and are the problem that we MRA’s need to change.

    When we get men to think independently, we change the world. That should be the goal of every true MRA out there!

    There is nothing that scares the living hell out of a feminist as that of an independent man…one who defines his own manhood and does not end up a puppet and living machine that propels feminism forward to ruin all that we know and cherish. This is why feminists hate this website; because they know we are right and will never cave in to them. We do not identify as beings who are here for their disposable utility. They say we hate them but the truth is they hate us and the truth we represent because we won’t let them have their way all the time.

    Piss a feminist off; be male…be a REAL man! Real men will stop the feminists’ synthetic replacement scheme about everything, everybody, everywhere.

    Just in case you’re wondering, real men do not frequent and are not welcome on askmen.com. Those “men” welcomed there, and that fit in there might as well be women. That site should be renamed whateverpleaseswomen.com or manhoodisownedbywomen .com or menarepuppetcustomers.com.

    Real men tell the truth; that is exactly what they do. Now, how many real men are there out there?

    Be man enough, have the courage to tell the truth as determined by objective nature and you will be a real man.

  • Marcos Frederico Andreoli

    That’s why I call myself weak and proud of it.
    JtO just wrote exactly what I’m just observing in my life.