The men’s movement has long carried with it a strong undercurrent of frustration. We lack organization, have made all but inconsequential progress on the political and legal fronts, and remain on the outside of an impenetrable wall around the mainstream media. Countless times the ambitions of MRA’s start up in a flash and falter as just as quickly. Uncle Zed himself has dubbed our tendency to undermine any emergent leaders, and each other, as The Circular Firing Squad.
In other words, we are doing just fine, thank you very much.
The negatives are real, but let’s put a little perspective on this. First, it is critically important to consider that any movement a mere 40 or 50 years old is in its infancy. For women, it was 72 years between Seneca Falls and the 19th amendment; almost 50 years after that before mainstream feminism took hold, and still another 25 or so years before gender activists really started getting the power to destroy families and generally fuck up everything else they touched. That is roughly 150 years from inception to the resultant destruction.
And that was in a culture where base biology drives men to throw each other under the bus in order to open doors for women- and drives women to feel entitled to that kind of paid-for-in-blood privilege.
Following the feminist example is thus an ineffectual and agonizingly slow road for men. Feminists were able to whine their way into de facto governance by the same forces that quash men’s grievances faster than they can be stated.
It all boils down to two simple but insurmountable equations.
Women’s whining = pursuit of justice. Men’s pursuit of justice = whining.
Trying to reason with or educate people in a culture where this mindset is biologically rooted is absolutely foolish. The people we would engage view all forms of support for men like they were dirty hypodermic needles scattered across a schoolyard playground.
Allow me to expand on this.
I recently read an article on a feminist website, Sociological Images, authored by a couple of female Ph. D’s, in which one of the comments named yours truly as an MRA who wrote about men’s superiority over women, and yet another person who commented said they visited A Voice for Men and found a lot of whining going on here.
Par for the course, right?
But let’s just run a short comparison to further demonstrate what I am talking about.
Recently on A Voice for Men, we have engaged in the standard discussions that relate to men in modern culture: A police state that arrests and incarcerates male victims of domestic violence and enables female perpetrators to continue criminal behavior; a ten to one death gap concerning capital punishment that works against men; a five to one death gap against men related to suicide; the staggering attrition of males in higher education and employment; the utter lack of reproductive rights for men, and the incidence of false rape allegations against men which even the police are calling epidemic.
And that is just the past two weeks.
On the other hand, the article from which the comments I cited at Sociological Images was about:
Rulers.
No, not heads of state. Measuring sticks. The kind that sell for $1.19 in your grocery store. It seems the fembots in question found a line of rulers commemorating great scientists of history, and a woman scientist, Marie Curie, had her own ruler under the heading of “Great Women Rulers of Science.”
That’s the horrific injustice that pissed off the author.
Her problem was (or at least appeared to be) that the women were separated from the men, giving us a default position of men as human and women as, uh, something else. Perhaps something less.
But wait a second. For half a century feminists have shrieked and bellowed and raged to get us to recognize women; often insisting we deluge them with pomp and ceremony, even over some of their more mediocre accomplishments. And let’s face it, even after 50 years of efforts for inclusion and assisted access for women into all realms of modern life, mediocre accomplishments are as good as it gets.
Still, when it comes to their demand for recognition, earned or otherwise, we have surrendered our reason (see: psychobiology) and complied. But now, even acting out of that acquiescence, and giving Marie Curie her own 12 inches of fame, this is somehow an affront. We have insulted all women, relegating them to subhuman status, by lauding their accomplishments in the “wrong” way.
And we are the whiners?
And that is really the point here. These educated idiots aren’t some isolated group of imbeciles. Well, they aren’t isolated, anyway. They are not operating outside of mainstream consciousness. They are mainstream consciousness. The sooner we get a firm and comprehensive grip on that, the better.
The current mentality toward men mirrors that toward blacks in the antebellum south. And no, I am not comparing the struggles of modern men to black slaves. Not at all. I am, however, most certainly comparing the mentality of modern women to that of slave owners, complete with manginas and white knights aplenty to serve as their house niggers.
They practice the same level of denial and entitlement that was needed to maintain justification for slavery. No amount of moral outrage will affect them; no amount of suffering (except their own) will reach their hearts.
And no amount of reason will produce anything more than the blank, uncomprehending stare of a cow seeing its own reflection in a pond.
With all respect to Glenn Sacks, just what does anyone really think he is going to accomplish in terms of popularizing our agenda in this kind of moral and intellectual void?
And there’s the rub. Where reason and dialog fail; where activism as we understand the word is a non starter, then responding with more of the same is as stupid as finding a sinister, sexist plot in the school supplies section at your grocery store. The more sensible route to go is withdrawal and intentional neglect.
Or, as Ayn Rand would advise, shrug it.
Shrug it all- the whole nasty, filthy rotten enchilada.
And it’s already happening. It does not require leadership or organization. You don’t need to donate money to it or try to get it on the ballot in your local elections. Men are now shrugging marriage, and for every one that does it will mean another man the state will not be enslaving through the family courts. And it will mean that many more children will not be ripped to shreds as sacrificial fodder to the system.
Men are also starting to shrug partisan politics, chivalry, nationalism, consumerism and the mainstream media; all the slow acting toxins that have landed men in the position of needing a movement in the first place.
And it will continue happening because that is the nature of social physics. There is a pendulum swing in effect here, and it is happening in total indifference to feminists, mainstream media, and yes, to the men’s movement as well.
In short, we aren’t causing anything here. We are just giving it a name, a voice and a language.
We chronicle what is happening; document it, and perhaps in our own way urge some men to reconsider what the fuck has been happening in their lives. But for the most part, I think that many men, when they stumble on our literature, aren’t convinced by it, nor do they need any such persuasion. They just find something that finally puts some pieces together for them; something that articulates the unnamed knot that has been twisting in their guts for a while.
That is why I don’t give advice, don’t see myself as a leader, and don’t want to.
Men don’t need advice or guidance near as much as they need information. And if there is anything that most of them actually need to learn, it is that the only real leadership is in the mirror. Our agenda is defined by our own choices and actions. Our “cause” is our own life, on our own terms.
Most any man can still reasonably secure his freedom and well being with a simple (if not always easy) decision to shrug everything that gets in the way, and to be prepared to build and maintain his own life raft, instead of waiting for the government, feminists, or some supposed MRA leader to do it for him.
Our problem, if we actually even have one, is that there are a lot of MRA’s who still have a hard time comprehending this. They are waiting for someone else to point the way. Or maybe for an instruction manual on how to act like a vertebrate. But give them time. They will change or end up settling for life on their knees, begging for scraps of shopworn pussy and pretending that they are still in Kansas.
I suppose it is obligatory that I state the obvious and say this is just my opinion, and that I maintain full support for the handful of activists that are trying desperately to chip away at the social and legislative machine that is hell bent on destroying men. But I also think it is pretty obvious that we spend too much time wringing our hands over a lack of progress as measured against feminist strategy.
Ironically, my greatest personal inspiration came from the mouth of a feminist icon. To be specific, from Marilyn French, who penned the following:
My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don’t even need to shrug. I simply don’t care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearning were, simply don’t matter.
It was easy for French to make such a statement, because no matter how much she disdained men, she still lived her entire life benefiting from their sacrifices; an ingrate on the tit, she stopped suckling only long enough to complain about the free meal. It was her beta husband who put her through school, and of course she divorced him once he paid for her “independence,” and made himself expendable. And this is precisely the direction a growing number of men are going, only with one very distinct difference.
We don’t need women. Men don’t die, or even get sick without them. There is no RDA for pussy. And as more men start to figure out that being on your knees is the wrong position to be in to receive a blowjob, they will also start learning to get themselves out of harms way, and to assume authority over their own lives.
As I have said before, women are the modern shiv that the government uses to stab men in the back. No one needs leadership to recognize that and act accordingly. All they need is a little common sense, and a good measure of the very uncommon sense that comes with being able to imagine yourself outside the role that has been prescribed for you.
If you are reading this, you likely are one of the lucky ones who have that kind of good sense. Enjoy your own rareness, and enjoy watching what happens when the time comes that men like you are not so rare.
Most men just can‘t do it. Fine by me, let ‘em rot. They sure as hell won‘t hesitate to walk past your stinking carcass. They have the information at their disposal 24/7 to point to a different path than that of the mangina or white knight. And the more of us that Go Our Own Way, the higher the price those unfortunates that just can’t “get it” will have to pay, and the more appealing our way of thinking will become.
Relative freedom is just a few short decisions away. All you have to do is choose it.
Tags: Chivalry, Criminal Justice, Feminism, Government Tyranny, Manginas, Men's Issues, Men's Rights, Paul Elam, Zeta Masculinity
660 Posts in Total
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scatmaster:
Dr. F (Ian Williams):
Dean Esmay:
ladditionstp:
The only thing I can add to this is that every man should read Max Stirner’s *The Ego and His Own*, which offers an even better philosophical justification for egoism in general and MGTOW in particular than Ayn Rand did.
Thank you for writing on this topic. For the past few days I’ve actually been considering writing about something in the same vein, and I’ll try to gather the strength and focus to do it.
Not only that, but governments, especially the Federal government, are not going to take on the task of essentially eliminating the immense powers feminism has given it. With all due respect to the females of our species, dominion over men is the great prize all governments seek to obtain.
I see no chance whatsoever of successfully petitioning governments to stop doing the things they do to men. Feminism is just an very complex and specious excuse for the state to steal the lives and property of men. It is tyranny that infects society and causes us to destroy ourselves through our own energy and volition, rather than from one authoritarian source. There is not going to be a swing toward justice and ‘equality’ in government.
It is a profound shift in consciousness to suggest that a man view and experience his life from within his own existence. Not as a laborer, or husband, or father, patriot, protector, altruist, fodder, perpetrator. All these sacrificial roles that pull the cart.
What a profound experience to discover I am adequate to myself and inadequate to no one. What an exciting development to measure myself and choose the standard. What an absolute sense of freedom to live outside of the walls of shame, humiliation, ridicule, indifference and hatred. It is absolutely exhilarating to feel like more than just a piece of inventory, if only to myself. Although I am afraid that if I continue on this course of self indulgence and self interest, I may actually arrive at feeling human.
Who would have thought it is really all about me.
Thanks Paul !!
did i hear rulers? ^^ awesome article, again, paul…will u ever stop?? ^^
Good to see the discussion we had about the dichotomy of tje movement in terms of leadership has sparked such lucid inspiration and contemplation from you Paul.
Active change would solve our problems but just like any any comimentary relationship of opposites the inverse can accomplish the same. I do IT work and there are so many natural examples that are analogous in all aspects in terms of the Go Our Own Way strategy of victory. In IT security, instead of puting up active offence we ate able to provide thesame result by using security by obscurity.
The same result can be accomplished by employing diametric emds of the complimentary spectrum. The Go Our Own Way strayegy therefore is a means to the ends of which we seek. I do believe however that it is not the preferable means. Lacking sufficient agency to do otherwise men may indeed have no choice.
Once again Paul, you articulate simple but profound common sense. Your article is nothing less than the blueprint for men to obtain freedom on their own terms.
We have to learn to become considerably more selfish, however much that may seem to go against the grain. After all, it works for women and for the state. Now it is high time it worked for us. And the great thing is that it is within the reach of every man. Another great thing is that it does not have to come at any cost to others; except to those who wish us harm and try to exploit us.
I have spent the last few years stepping away from the state, the dead brain of the mainstream and the stultifying and destructive expectations of those who care nothing for my welfare, and learning the ways of MGTOW. It has been a wonderful experience, and the best years of my life. I heartily recommend it. And Paul is right; you don’t need anyone’s permission, leadership or approval. Quite the contrary. You just need to approve of yourself. And you ARE worth it.
I die inside whenever I see someone as obviously intelligent and practical as Paul
Parmenter, among many others, talk about MGTOW.
It is absolutely shameful that we now have a society where the best and brightest are left with no option except to disengage from the system. The state steals our money and uses it towards ends which we know are bad ideas. The worst is when it gives our own money to support our enemies.
MGTOW makes me very sad. They are men who ought to be fathers and leaders in their communities, but society will not allow them to do so. We all lose as a result.
I don’t know what I would do if I had had the opportunity to have a real life. I’m not sure if I would be a MGHOW or if I would try to find a successful way to change the system. I consider myself super-privileged to be exposed to the wisdom and knowledge of the MRM, and to know a great deal about how the world actually works. I am deeply ashamed that I cannot put my knowledge to good use.
I remember all the debaters quoting from Marilyn French as if she was some sort of genius. How I’d like to go back for about a month to re-argue all that feminism. Alas, time moves on.
HERE IS WHERE THE BUCK STOPS!!!
http://mgtowchat.mgtow.net/
MEN GOING THEIR OWN WAY ver. 2.2
The goal is to instill masculinity in men, femininity in women, and work toward limited government!
By instilling masculinity in men, we make men self-reliant, proud, and independent.
By instilling femininity in women, we make them nurturing, supporting, and responsible.
By working for a limited government, we are working for freedom and justice.
Women have other qualities is not interesting to men because we don’t need them! Femininity will be the price women pay for enjoying masculinity in men!
This is the aim of “Men Going Their Own Way”.
By holding this point of view, we are helping other men and, more importantly, we are helping boys grow up to become men.
This goal is to take away everyone’s “right” to vote on other people’s affairs thus rendering it impossible for political organisms and ideologies to impose their personal will on everyone else. It is not about reinstalling patriarchy or revoking female voting rights or making socialism illegal. It might have this as a side effect – but not directly and not as a political ideology. Only the future will show what happens and by going our own way we are preparing men and boys for that future.
It is important for men to have a practical approach to implementing our strategies.
PRIME STRATEGIES FOR ACHIEVING OUR GOALS
We have 3 main strategies:
1. instilling masculinity in men by:
Demanding respect for men
Serving as good male role models
Living independent lives
Fighting chivalry
2. instilling femininity in women
We will hold women equally accountable to men and ignore and shun those who refuse to take any responsibility for their own circumstances. Thus we induce women to take a complementary position with men instead of a competitive position as is now the case.
Feminine qualities we want from women:
Nurturing
Supportive
Responsibility
Respectfulness
Honesty
3. Limited government
In order to be independent of society, and live within it, while at the same time work for limiting governmental influence upon our daily lives, men will:
Go Their Own Way
Support other men
Legally reduce any taxpaying
Truthfully act out any duties in accordance with their conscience
Use any rights to the benefit of other men as well as themselves
It is those 3 strategies that come together in one.
MEN GOING THEIR OWN WAY
This is the logo:
Every man supporting this idea is welcome to use the logo in this or similar contexts.
What we do as activism or the way we behave personally are the main tactics.
Use of a logo which symbolizes the strategy.
Run one or many web-sites and fora that promotes this.
Run one or more web-sites which tells the truth about feminism.
Provide stickers, T-shirts, etc., with various statements such as “Chivalry is dead!”.
Writing articles supporting our product.
Producing music promoting our product.
Hold international events and local meetings.
Establishing men’s clubs.
Boycotting certain products.
You will basically be alone doing this. There is no organization supporting you. You just go your own way and do what you believe is right. You are never obligated beyond your own conscience. True masculinity is also about accepting the rights of other men and not letting them down for any short term personal benefits.
The men’s movement does actually cover a much larger picture. By instilling masculinity in others, as well as yourself, you will actually be improving the lives of everyone, including women and children.
IF IT’S NOT RIGHT, GO YOUR OWN WAY!
Take care brother!
The MGTOW logos and the MGTOW Manifesto are public domain, explicitly designated so by their creators (the men of MGTOW) to be used by anyone for the purpose of promoting MGTOW. May 1, 2006
[ Back ]
@ Peter
I had intended to include an MGTOW image in with this article. Thanks for the reminder!
@ Paul Parmenter
Sir, if you would ever care to write an article covering your experiences in making your transition to the MGTOW path, I would be honored to run it here.
Your words are the stuff that changed lives, SAVED lives, are made of.
I appreciate most of your comment, Peter, but the last vestiges of what alpha personalities have done to the world can be seen in their convincing too many of us that government (meaning “they”) is necessary. Based on coercion, the idea of limited government is, to an extent, death-oriented:
http://strike-the-root.com/coercion-is-death
It is in the nature of any system of coercion (government, institutionalized religion, etc.) to grow exponentially. If the men’s movement succeeds in taking hold of the reins of government, even reining it in, the benefits (if any) will be short-lived, I can assure you. But I agree with all of your other ideas.
The main point Paul is trying to make is about shrugging, and I know that Ayn Rand agreed with the idea of limited government, but her greater idea is simply not associating oneself with those who wish to initiate coercion. Paul has mentioned all three points in what I consider to be the three necessary criteria for any freedom revolution to win:
1. It must be peaceful. (Yes, you can still own a gun for self-protection.)
2. It must be individual, with no mass movement to join.
3. It must have the distinct lack of a charismatic leader.
Amazingly, Paul touched upon all three points, writing not one single word with which I disagree. Since he did all of this without ever discussing the three points laid out above, I am becoming increasingly convinced that I am correct on the criteria.
And keith, this ain’t my website, but I’m begging you to submit something! Fine comment. Sounds to me like the revolution for freedom, in your case, is already won. Me, too.
And I defy any feminist or misandrist to factually point out a single instance in any article I have thus far submitted wherein I can be found whining.
Hi Paul,
While I typically agree with most of what you say I have to disagree with you on this one, brother.
Shrugging off misandry will not defeat it, will not change it, and is simply not good for men. Period. The system needs to be fixed from within.
We need to fight. We need action. You are certainly correct when you say that so far we have only identified the problem and given it a name. This is because of the great work of men like yourself, Glenn Sacks, Factory and countless other MRA’s
But identifying the problem is simply not enough. We need to organize, build a warchest, fight the enemy and win. Do not disengage the system. We need powerful, positive action – not negative action or indifference.
I am a business owner who works with venture capitalists and a well known, contributing member to the community that I live in. A friend of mine is a political consultant (he gets candidates elected) and together we have decided to form an organization that will fight for men. It will be powerful, well funded, effective and 100% motherfucking unapologetic in its affirmation of men’s rights and its mission to educate men on how to fight the current system and win.
Building an organization like this will take time, money and personal sacrifice. It won’t be easy, it won’t always be “fun” but it WILL happen and there is nothing the feminists, or their lap dogs, will be able to do to stop it. Nothing.
Men like myself, and many of the MRA’s here, feel great pain from the injustices faced by men everyday but we keep moving forward no matter what. They may slow us down but they will never stop us. Men like myself are unbreakable, unshakable and unconquerable.
Shrugging off misandry or “going ghost / going Galt” is not a solution. There will always be some mangina or woman ready to step in and fill your vacated role to keep this sick system moving along. We need men in powerful leadership positions, we need men to be mentors to their families, their communities and other men. Instead of just telling young men to avoid marriage, our message should be: “Don’t get married, go to college!” or “Don’t get married, start a business instead!” All of this talk about the manufacturing sector disappearing forever may be accurate but there are plenty of other opportunities if you examine the market. I called a service to clean my carpets last week and the guy who came over spent about 15 minutes working in my home and I paid him $100 for the service. As he was packing up to leave I struck up a conversation with him about his work. Turns out that this guy owns and helps run the business and he gets roughly 8 or so of these appointments a day. $800+ a day is great money for a single man in his early 20′s. Men like him should use some of that money to help other men just as women (and mostly men) contribute financially to women’s causes.
While there is much talk about teaching boys to “respect girls and women” there needs to be more talk about teaching girls to “respect boys and men”. If you’re the father of a young girl you can start doing this today. I taught my daughter to respect men and she does. She’s not a pushover by any standard but she certainly won’t exhibit any crazy feminist behavior and already sees feminism for the sexist, bigoted bullshit that is is. She is one less soldier in the feminist army, one less weapon in the war against men. As a father, husband, brother, friend, uncle or boyfriend it is YOUR responsibility to teach the women in your life to respect men and reject the bigoted politics of feminism. The feminists sure as shit ain’t gonna do it!
Start getting involved in your communities, start mentoring the young men in your lives, start getting the women you know to respect and support men. It’s all on US – don’t ever forget that.
Over the next few months I’m going to be revealing our strategy and creating the road map, roles and responsibilities that we will need to get started. I’ve already been in contact with Paul and several other MRA’s in multiple countries. This organization needs to be international in its scope and participation and needs to include ALL men: white men, black men, latino men, asian men, indian men, native men, gay men, straight men, bisexual men, rich men, poor men, free men, men in prison, married men, single men, and all the others. It also needs to include women. There are women like Beth Lang ( http://avoiceformen.com/2010/09/11/a-lack-of-rights-for-men-a-mother-fights-back/ ) who have seen the injustices faced by the men in their lives and are ready to fight. The more people we can turn against feminism the quicker we can turn it into an embarrassing footnote in the history books.
Feminism is confusion, bitterness, hatred and bigotry. Because of that it cannot continue to exist forever. It will ensnare too many in its clutches and eventually its supporters will turn against it. Look at what happened to John Stewart from the “Daily Show”. He was accused of sexism against women, for no real reason, so the women who worked side by side with him released a letter saying that John was certainly NOT sexist against women and the Daily Show was NOT a hostile work environment for women. Many feminists somehow took that letter as undeniable evidence of John Stewart’s misogyny, continued to attack him and started accusing the women of the Daily Show of being in league with the “Patriarchy” (feminism’s favorite term to describe their conspiracy theory of history). That’s the definition of insanity.
I’m inviting all of you to pitch in and help. We can only get stronger from here on out. If you want to contribute your time, knowledge, talent, services or money then contact me at ycombinator1@gmail.com
We will win this fight. Mark my words. The only question we need to ask ourselves is “When?”
MGTOW makes me very sad. They are men who ought to be fathers and leaders in their communities, but society will not allow them to do so. We all lose as a result.
Eincrou, why should men who go their own way be fathers? Why should they be leaders in their communities? Why should they even be part of a community? Why shouldn’t they go their own way, and refuse to stand for any cause but their own well-being? Why should any of us think in terms of “we”?
Bah. I screwed up the HTML when quoting Eincrou. I should have known better.
@ Y
I anticipated disagreement on this one. The only surprise was that it was so polished and congenial. And trust me, I hope you are right. But you will have to forgive me for claiming citizenship to Missouri on this one and saying that when it happens I will believe it.
I’d love to eat crow on this one, though.
In the meantime, I will stay my personal path of MGTOW. When something presents itself that I can sink my teeth in to, that I can believe, I will jump in on the quick.
@Eincrou:
“MGTOW makes me very sad.”[cr]
No need to be sad.
“But there is another way – in diametretic opposition to that of social duty and the popular cult. From the standpoint of the way of duty, anyone in exile from the community is a nothing. From the other point of view, however, this exile is the first step of the quest. Each carries within himself the all; therefore it may be sought and discovered within. The differentiations of sex, age, and occupation are not essential to our character, but mere costumes which we wear for a time on the the stage of the world. The image of man within is not to be confounded with the garments. We think of ourselves as Americans, children of the twentieth century, Occidentals, civilized Christians. We are virtuous or sinful. Yet such designations do not tell what it is to be man, they denote only the accidents of geography, birth-date, and income. What is the core of us? What is the basic character of our being?
“… By such meditations he is driven to his own profundity and breaks through, at last, to unfathomable realizations. No man can return from such exercises and take very seriously himself as Mr. So-and-so of Such-and-such a township, U.S.A. Society and duties drop away…
“The aim is not to [i]see[/i], but to realize that one [i]is[/i], that essence; then one is free to wander as that essence in the world.”
- Joseph Campbell, “The Hero with a Thousand Faces”
Sure, it sounds like a bunch of spiritual mumbo-jumbo, but I know plenty of men who have been going their own way since long before the term was coined who nod in recognition at that description. Inevitably, that’s the path you step on when you take full responsibility for creating your own life.
All in all, it’s not a bad gig.
Why should men be fathers? Because if our brightest men who are aware of the misandry and hatred towards males go their own way and don’t have children they are like lemmings and intentionally extinguishing themselves from the world. Their ideas and worldviews will become extinct. If only the mangina’s have families and children then guess what? They will raise their sons to be, gulp, mangina’s. I agree with Y, we have a fight on our hands and we need to strategize, and we need to develop pockets of men and women with kids fighting the obvious and default lies that construct most people’s version of reality.
Paul! You hit it with this one: “Women’s whining = pursuit of justice. Men’s pursuit of justice = whining.” This is all related to our biology and men need to arm themselves with related knowledge. It is in the bloodstream gentlemen. Women choose and men compete.
@ Paul Elam
And that is fine with me. You are another great voice in this fight, a true Voice for Men.
My intention is not to segregate or dismiss anyone who does not agree with me. We are ALL men here.
We will certainly win this fight. It’s going to take educating men to turn the tide, to stand up and make some noise, to get into positions of power and enforce fairness, to sue in court when they are discriminated against, to make the enemies of men retreat in defeat the same way the civil rights movement sent the racists to the margins of society. Once we have CREATED cultural change it will be easier to create legal change.
I would encourage all MRA’s to know the facts (the stats, numbers, names, dates, studies, etc from reliable sources) but use emotional tactics. Study how the Tea Party has used the Internet to get their views into the mass media. The Tea Party gets a lot of free media coverage. You DON’T need to agree with their politics but you DO need to understand why they have been so successful.
Read Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” and George Lakoff’s “Don’t think of an Elephant”. Learn how to sway people over to our side. Learn how to have all the facts to support your argument but fight dirty like a son-of-a-bitch. Feminists have been fighting dirty for years and we can, too. Never give in and never give up.
I’m still hoping men will ORGANIZE and GET SOMETHING DONE. I think there should be reading programs for young boys. Bill Gates enjoyed reading as a young boy !I can imagine the feminists fighting this program for boys if it ever got started.
Hi Tom,
Always good to see you here. And I anticipated your reaction to this one.
Here is my take on this. First, you are absolutely correct with this:
That is certainly a very real danger, but let me pose a couple of questions to you about this. One, where are the brightest men who are fathers who are actually doing anything to help. I know, there is a handful. I am most thankful to count you among them. But in terms of impact, aren’t we really talking about what needs to happen because it is not happening at all?
In fact, if what needed to be happening was actually making any progress at all, I would have written an entirely different piece.
And for round two of my devil’s advocacy, allow me to react to this:
I am going to make the argument, Tom, that it is men who go blindly into marriage and fatherhood who more resemble lemmings than those that don’t. I know this does not speak to future generations. In that respect your position is unassailable.
But my honest take on this is that a period of men on marriage and familiy strike is one of the most valuable weapons we have. Perhaps as it gains momentum it will give a synergistic boost to efforts to change legislation aimed at making marriage less of a dive off a cliff than it currently is for so many.
In the end, I really agree in principle with both you and Y, but I do think that keeping men and boys as safe as possible while we “wait” for real action is only sane and more than a little practical.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you wrote and would like to add. A hell of a lot of us were raised as manginas. I know I certainly was. I was raised to seek female approval and it is a poison in my system I still struggle with. Marriage and children is a looser bet in my opinion. The risks far,far out weigh any possible gain I might possibly experience.
@ Y
If I could only clone that attitude and distribute it throughout the MRM, we could wrap up business in no time.
Consider this site at your disposal whenever you are ready to go public with your plans.
Reading the comments on this article, something occurred to me. Just thought experiment, that might in s small way, be instructive:
What if the feminists…instead of gaming the government to enslave men…had their own marriage strike, or a WGTOW movement?
Something to think about on a longish drive.
Fantastic article, Paul. Good counter to the Spartacus piece @ SH.
Paul…
Back in my mid thirties I actually thought that I would be one of those guys who would take his own life after being disposed of by the company he worked for in a layoff. Up to that point in my life I had allowed the job I went to every morning, throughout the work week to so totally subsume my identity, that I would have been utterly lost and cast adrift on the deep blue sea of uncertainty had my worst fear come true at that particular moment in my life.
But after the death of my father at the tender age of fifty-five when I was thirty-five I began to write again and shortly purchased my first computer so that in time I gave up my job as my primary identity and began to identify myself as a writer and a father. Nor did it matter if nobody else ever read the poems or short stories that I wrote; because I was following my dream in the manner of my own choosing. {Which I had stupidly allowed my immature wife to derail during the first year of our marriage.} Instead bottling up everything inside to the point that I was seriously considering taking my own life. Long before I did indeed lose my job due to the shuttering of the plant where I’d worked for eighteen years and two months.
So that by the time I was actually facing the loss of my job I was able to tell the person who asked, that I would be all right and that I would survive because I was a writer and all that I had to do was find another job before my unemployment benefits ran out in order to pay the bills which I did in less than thirty days after the plant was shut down.
Today at fifty-one I am still a writer and gainfully employed and absolutely refuse to make my wife, family or the job I do in order to pay the bills the absolute center of my life.
Why?
Because even after all these years since the uncertainty of my thirties I AM STILL A WRITER!
Yes Paul, I figured you would see it coming. ;>)
In answer to your first question I would point out that you and I both are fathers who have had significant influence on the ideas of our offspring. My daughter’s husband is a lucky man to be married to an mra. That is the sort of relationships we need to encourage in our young men. Don’t settle for a woman who breathes the status quo, find one that honors men and will truly love you and treat you like a partner. If you can’t find one, don’t get married but don’t stop looking. There are some out there and there are ways to find them.
Quite agree with you that men who marry feminists are truly lemmings. No question. They are going to get fleeced. It’s a given and a predictable trap. I just think we need to start encouraging our young men to know what they are getting into and to be able to tell the difference in women who treat them like wallets and those who are more concerned with their well-being. Reminds me of Warren Farrell’s idea that women are interested in men who are in touch with THEIR feelings. Not men who are in touch with the man’s feelings! But men who are in touch with HER feelings. LOL
MGTOW: once when I was younger I was having a conversation with an old man. We were talking about altruism. I said something that thoroughly shocked him and ran contrary to the knee-jerk SNAGism that permeated our community, “All true altruism is self-interest.” But after giving it some thought he told me that what I had said was true.
Biologically it’s true: Types of altruism make a man more fit through kinship selection, and by sacrificing short-term gains a man tends to strengthen the benefits he receives from long-term reciprocity. But I had meant more than this.
A man who acts in his true self-interest categorically acts in the interests of others. I don’t know if this is objectivism or is in accord with The Fountainhead or anything else by Ayn Rand. I’ve never read her, only about her. But that’s what impresses me about MGTOW, men acting in their best interests who also by necessity are acting in the best interests of all. I wish you all real freedom. I wish you all success.
Pilfered!
But then you knew that would happen, didn’t you Paul?
Y: I wonder, you have a good writing style there, and some pretty strong ideas. Have you ever considered writing a “blueprint” type article for those wanting to take a more active, organized stance? I know that I personally would like to form an org dedicated to promotion of MRA viewpoints (creating media material, hand-outs for schools, etc), but the ‘cost of entry’ is massive, especially considering most MRAs financial position.
I think an article like that could be most entertaining and informative. If it could be positive in tone, rather than negative, that would be even more better.
In any case, though I have no idea what you have planned, I’ll help where I can.
Eincrou: “I am deeply ashamed that I cannot put my knowledge to good use.”
I don’t know about that, you’ve got writing skills and insight, and you use them. As for general society, this is ‘the way things are’. A predictable result of credentialism, where actual ability is devalued so much that it can hardly be recognized, in favour of ‘approved credentials’. This is why the best and brightest can often be seen flipping burgers. Immigrants run up against this all the time.
—-
My take on the article and the issues raised?
I think we all can contribute in whatever way we feel most effective, and we can do so safely. Whether you believe in changing perceptions, or laws, or expectations, you are right.
Frankly, we have so few players on the field, they can run all willy-nilly and never bump up against another….
My opinion is that rather than arguing over the ‘best’ approach, or who to ‘follow’, we are far better served by simply doing our own thing, and whatever we can to help our peers in theirs.
Making Feminism more unpopular serves our ends.
Shining light on Feminist hypocrisy serves our ends.
Showing the Government control connection to Political Correctness serves our ends.
Gaining public sympathy for Fathers serves our ends.
Winning lawsuits against DV shelters serves our ends.
Introducing Shared Parenting legislation serves our ends.
Educating men as to their legal status serves our ends.
Working to improve the education of boys serves our ends.
Fighting to save the lives of countless suicide victims serves our ends.
Exposing Family Court for the corrupt institution it is serves our ends.
Winning tiny court battles over ‘ladies night’ and suchlike serves our ends.
Questioning politicians about our issues when possible serves our ends.
Not putting up with bullshit in our daily lives serves our ends.
Making better choices serves our ends.
Knowing more about women, and their motivations, serves our ends.
Knowing more about ourselves, and how we are raised, serves our ends.
There is no ‘right’ way to do this. Or, put another way, there are so many ‘right’ ways to do it that arguing over methodology is not only pointless, but borderline crazy.
I will do what I can, wherever I can, for whatever worthwhile project I am invited to help with. If anything, that’s my advice to anyone who wants it.
@Tom
” Because if our brightest men who are aware of the misandry and hatred towards males go their own way and don’t have children they are like lemmings and intentionally extinguishing themselves from the world. ”
Women are beginning to CHOOSE the intelligence of their offspring …
http://www.xytex.com/sperm-donor-bank-patient/
We’ve disagreed on much in the past Dabir.
I am glad to say we see things 100% the same on this one. Writers are generally writers first, human beings second, and we need them to be that way.
Exactly what I see, and what I believe Paul was writing about. This is freedom.
Same here. Self-interest will always involve love and desires for one’s children, and one’s woman. It goes beyond that to concern for one’s poker buddies, one’s coworkers, the business at which one is employed, one’s community… The list goes on and on.
I like many of your ideas, Y, and I think they can and ought to be incorporated nonviolently. However, this comment reminds me too much of the character of Boromir in The Lord of the Rings trilogy: “Why not use this ring?!” To fight “dirty” is death-oriented, and I will have no part of it.
I don’t think they’d ever figure out how. Marriage benefits women more than it does men. There are no groom magazines out there, showing you what tuxes are in season this year. To refuse to marry a misandrist is to shrug, and it is in keeping with peaceful principles and criteria for successful freedom. Political action, short (perhaps) of a whole bunch of Ron Pauls, is death-oriented. As of now, no one has been able to refute my conclusion that coercion is death, and I don’t think anyone ever will.
“Women go their own way”: The result? Self-interest and freedom abound.
“Men go their own way”: The result? Self-interest and freedom abound.
“Women clutch at power to ‘get revenge’ on the male sex”: Death.
“Men clutch at power to ‘get revenge’ on the female sex”: Death.
Great post.
From my observing comments thread in various MRM sites over the past few months (concurrently to a messy ending of a three-year relationship), I can try and summarize the types of people in the MRM:
- seasoned, grizzled veterans of the gender war. Who know what decency is and how much it got spit upon by feminist/socialist ‘tinkering’. These guys are the hull of the ship.
- posers/confused/noobs/infiltrators: useful in the way that if we are on message consistently and don’t fall into any traps, they will absorb our arguments and the movement grows.
- idealists. Like myself, I am like the exile who is timidly returning to the village after hearing word that it is safe to do so. We aren’t old enough to have been fully instilled with ‘manhood’ (I think of Mr Chapin as one of these guys), but in fact have been the mice in the lab. We bear the scars of direct social re-engineering, being forcefed the blue pills.
I’m sure there’s more, but this is my take on it.
great comments on here..alot of thought and information….are there any thoughts or plans on ORGANIZING AND GETTING SOMETHING DONE ?
@Paul
A few hours ago I wrote a huge response to your fabulous article and saved it (or so I thought) in Clipdiary so that I could check it out later before posting – only to discover just now that I have not yet installed Clipdiary on this computer.
LOL!
Ergo, no huge response.
All gone.
And so I shall have to summarise my response thusly, …
” Where reason and dialog fail; where activism as we understand the word is a non starter, then responding with more of the same is as stupid as finding a sinister, sexist plot in the school supplies section at your grocery store. The more sensible route to go is withdrawal and intentional neglect.”
More sensible perhaps for oldies, but younger men would be crazy not to fight; particularly given that they will, without a shadow of a doubt, win.
The alternative is that they sit back and let their governments continue to walk all over them and to cheat them.
Furthermore, the MGTOW route does not really solve the problem for most men, because most men cannot really escape from the horrors of feminism; one example being the lack of resources for researching prostate cancer.
How do men who take the MGTOW route avoid the consequences of that!?
And how will *most* men avoid, in practice, the biased tax regime by adopting MGTOW? – only by impoverishing themselves presumably.
Finally, my impression is that MRA activism is, in fact, having quite a large effect – but often in a rather oblique manner – perhaps because most men are still fearful of speaking out directly against feminism. But once that barrier to criticise feminism is finally smashed down, and more public discussions about it start taking place, then I feel fairly confident that the ball will start rolling fairly quickly.
Let us also always remember that gays and feminists were very tiny minorities just 40 years ago, and just look at the political power that they now wield.
But men are not such a tiny minority.
And when they finally wake up – which they will – feminism is dead.
We just need to wake them up!
@ Sir Harry
I hate it when that happens. Ugh.
Let me say about your summary that I don’t think we are on a different page at all. In fact, I think we are in abosolute sync, just on different roads to the same destination. Rather I am talking about what is on the entrance ramp and you are talking about what is on the freeway itself.
My take on this is that sense we lack the biological framework to react (and be heard) in the same way that women have, that our road to eventual real activism is first in shrugging.
Shrugging requires a rejection of the biological imperative, but it doesn’t require anyone, particularly young men, to face the wrath of the world alone. They can simply check out of many of the problems and build affiliations with other young men who are doing the same. Kind of a baby step. And I say this knowing that none of this stuff gets “directed” by anyone anyway.
Shrugging works, AND IS WORKING, because it fits the natural ebb and flow of social physics. But even though I focused exclusively on it in this article, I don’t see it as an ends at all, but just a needed first stage.
What do you thinik would happen if a subculture of “shruggers” starts to mold itself into something more known and universally accepted in the world of young men?
Visible activism is my bet. And the fighting back you are talking about that, true to your good words, will certainly happen.
I just don’t think we get there by any other means than the back door. It is much easier to support young men for saying “fuck this,” especially when they may not be fully cognizant of all the details. The awareness will come, and I believe will put them on the path that you are thoughfully advocating.
It will be an easier path if they have already learned to say NO to feminine influence. That skill to say NO is the best form of wake up we can support them for having. Once it becomes rote, I don’t think our young men will take a lot of shit quietly, or complacently.
Great analysis and discussion.
Men don’t need advice or guidance near as much as they need information.
“We don’t need women. Men don’t die, or even get sick without them.”
“Shrug it all- the whole nasty, filthy rotten enchilada.”
Shrug marriage, partisan politics, chivalry, nationalism, consumerism and the mainstream media.
That doesn’t mean shrugging the men’s movement.
Y wrote: “Shrugging off misandry will not defeat it, will not change it, and is simply not good for men. Period. The system needs to be fixed from within.”
If we suffer, then everyone suffers and it becomes a problem for everyone. Then and only then will everyone start to care about men.
Glenn Sacks does a great job and gets some mainstream media coverage, he’s FRA or MRA lite. He appeals to a certain demographic. Paul Elam is doing a great job. Everybody is doing something a bit different, going their own way. I don’t really see the conflict or necessity to reject either as effective in their own way at popularizing men’s rights..
Let me just say one more thing in defense of peaceful, non-political opposition. The systems in which some of you wish to work were not designed for zeta males, they were designed for certain alpha males and their “posterity.” If you want to work in this sick system, you can count me out.
There is a crucial difference between fighting from within and fighting from without. For instance, Beth Lang has a son who is facing a lifetime of hurt and pain because of a system designed for the ruling elite, who swallowed feminism whole and have included them in the Court of the King. I proposed that we contribute to Tyler’s defense. I was informed that my contribution was the only one. If that’s how much you care about starting, at the very least, with peaceful solutions, then I’ll abandon this site just as I did years ago with MensNewsDaily when I was savagely attacked by such people in the comments section, when I tried to defend the legitimacy of 9/11 Truth (in spite of the whackos that sadly stick around). But if you want to buy what the government and media have said, let’s not make that an issue.
Men are only served by life-oriented behavior. Mr. Elam is terrific in that he clearly understands it. I think Angry Harry does, too. I am quite certain that what they advocate is fighting this crooked, unsalvageable system on the terms the government has set (through proper defense in a court of law, for instance).
But running for political office? Forming political parties? Turning the guns of the state toward someone else, and not back at the state itself? Count me out.
Wow!! Mr. Merrick, are you suggesting that if the readers of this site don’t contribute as you see fit to a cause you name that you won’t participate here?
Isn’t coercion death?
Aside from that, I think it is important to remember that not everyone has the means to donate 5 cents, even for the best of causes. And for me personally, if I had 200 million bucks in the bank, I would not react very well to that kind of threat.
You are free to do as you please, and I appreciate the articles you have posted here, but I totally oppose the “do what I want or I will take my toys and go” attitude toward readers here regarding their money and their choices.
This is a shaming tactic, B.R.
Not cool.
@ Denis
“I don’t really see the conflict or necessity to reject either as effective in their own way at popularizing men’s rights.”
Wise words and I knew there was some risk of this when I posted what I did, but I stand by my beliefs on it. And note, however, that I think Glenn has done some good and will do some good on perhaps getting some legal action going.
But without pulling out the MRA dirty laundry, there are other factors in the history here involving public perception of the MRM that support my POV. I’d be happy to discuss it with you privately, but really don’t want to take it up here.
Paul, your zeta-male response is 100% correct. In shaming men, I was initiating coercion, because as you pointed out, the truth lies someplace else other than what my conclusion was, and therefore my comment was death-oriented.
Gentlemen, if I made any of you feel guilty or ashamed, then know that it is now I who am ashamed at lashing out, an activity that in the last few months cost me all future wealth I might have enjoyed with another anarchist correspondent, who lashed out at me without reason, as I just did here.
All of you pursue your self-interest at your leisure, and never let anyone make you feel bad about that.
Y wrote: “Shrugging off misandry will not defeat it, will not change it, and is simply not good for men. Period. The system needs to be fixed from within.”
To the freezing ever-night of intergalactic space with trying to fix the system from within. I tried that for a couple of years by working for the Libertarian Party, and accomplished nothing. One of the first things about computers I learned is that sometimes the best thing to do is punch the reset button. Our society doesn’t have a reset button, so we have to wait for the system to crash.
@ Angry Harry:
Gays wield political power? That’s news to me. That must be why gays with money are fleeing Amsterdam and why Pym Fortuyn was assassinated by a leftist. Myself, here in Canada I’ve been harassed by police three times in less than two years. Twice for liking guys and once for my atheism. Also, my apartment was illegally entered and a lifetime of correspondence stolen. If gays have any power whatsoever it’s only if and when we tow the feminist line. That is, when we have utility to women. When we speak up against feminism or even just in favour of men this “power” evaporates.
What I feel is not being appreciated enough by MRAs is the fact that the powers-that-be will be terrified of the MM.
I do not necessarily mean that the individuals themselves will be terrified (though that might happen eventually to some individuals) but ‘the systems’, the ‘organisms’.
The MM is a bit like what Galileo with his telescope was to the Catholic Church.
He could present some kind of psychological dynamite to the people which could really upset the power of the church.
The MM has similar potential. And it is completely unstoppable – assuming that the internet stays alive and free.
Assuming the latter, how on Earth can the MM be stopped? – which, basically, means that in order to grow we just need more and more publicity.
As such, therefore, there are surely only two realistic possibilities in the long term.
Either the MM succeeds *OR* we end up living inside some kind of *tyrannical* dictatorship – the *only* persistent force that could stop the MM.
And one good way to help bring about the former is to keep alerting the populace to the utter horror of the latter. And, fortunately, we will not be alone in pointing out the likelihood and the extent of such horror should we stop being vigilant; because there are millions of others (e.g. libertarians) who are already doing this.
With regard to the public perception of the MM, I do not think that this really matters; because if the public ever got interested in the MM then people would actually start to look at us – and they would see that our claims are valid.
Indeed, this is why the feminists do not, by and large, slam us publicly. They are terrified of giving us publicity.
If they could trounce us publicly, then they would. Same for the tabloids.
But they don’t!
Furthermore, not only will the MM become hugely powerful, in my view, those individuals who really understand the power that can be wielded through the internet will be very much *personally* empowered.
Indeed, the greatest danger for the MM stems not from the feminists or the tabloids or the politicians, but from those who wish to block and stymie free speech on the internet.
Our main ‘problem’ is our failure to get *ongoing* publicity.
There are many reasons for this, but this really is our biggest problem.
@Paul
“What do you thinik would happen if a subculture of “shruggers” starts to mold itself into something more known and universally accepted in the world of young men?”
We’ve got one or two million of those already here in the UK. They’re on welfare, in prison, and/or generally being a nusiance. And the government workers love them. It’s just what they need to maintain their jobs and their empires.
And, as I pointed out above, single women are now CHOOSING their sperm from shops.
In other words, shrugging will not work. The shruggees will just be left to rot while the women and the government get on without them.
More to the point, perhaps, is this. If we can get young men to adopt MGTOW in SIGNIFICANT numbers then, surely, we can get a SIGNIFICANT number of them to fight instead!!!
After all, either we have some significant influence, or we don’t.
If we don’t have significant influence then, quite simply, we are ineffective whatever we say, and if we do have significant influence, then why waste it by telling men to start shrugging!
LOL!
What I would tell men to do is what **YOU** are doing.
You are one of the best MRAs I’ve ever encountered.
Always stirring it up, and causing trouble.
LOL!
Sry I meant “toe the line”
@ Eincrou
“the state to steal the lives and propoerty of men”
Right now you are more than half right. But, if enough men realize that , come this Nov 2, you will be less than half right.
If not, perhaps these irresponsible, self centered, over-educated myopia sufferers are right about whining.
Mickey T, forgive me for what may be my own myopia, but I’m not sure what you mean. Could you restate that less cryptically, please?
If you mean that Republicans will take control of Congress in the elections, I hope they do, but I know that they will ignore their ‘mandate’ to significantly cut back on the government just like the Democrats ignored their mandate to end the wars in 2006.
@Harry: I think the BEST avenue for the MM is to tap into disaffected young male anger. Music, art, articles…however it can be done.
Give these angry young men a goal, I say!
@ angryharry
Although I don’t agree with everything you say, I like your optimistic DO SOMETHING attitude. It is a necessary part in the leadership for the advancement of the MRM. Without that, I believe there is little hope for success.
But, not to worry, I also believe that you could, and probably will play a major roll in “parting the sea and leading your people out of Egypt” without my total approval.
Never stop.
Thanks, Harry. I need to be reminded of that from time to time. I believed it the first time I read it in one of your pieces and I still believe it, though it is easy for me to forget at times. If the MRM materializes into what it could be, whoa, the world better watch out, lol!!
In the meantime, I will keep doing what I can an hoping for the best.
@ Factory
Damn straight. We have talent out here by the truckload. I am anxiously waiting RulaZ next music vid. I know there is more to be discovered.
@ Eincrou
There is a world of difference between a political party who doesn’t do all of what you want, and a party who does NOTHING, or the opposite, of what you want.
Make no mistake, the Democratic party is the feminist party. It is the party of big government. It is the party that is obsessed with power as is the feminist movement. They walk together hand in hand. This party is still passing a great deal feminist legislation pushing further and further into bondage. Yes, we are still going backwards.
If we gain The House you will see a positive, but not necessarily major and overnight, difference. If we gain both The Senate and The House, you will see more of a difference.
Even if you don’t think that is so, you must realize it will stop or slow the progression rate of the feminist agenda.
@ Eincrou
Also, the fems totally support the Dem party. And it is always payback time for the fems for that support in the form of passing legislation. The Republican party is their enemy. That in it self is reason enough to support the party.
NOW and other women’s organizations a very well funded. THAT is another major obstacle for the MRM which needs to be addressed. I’m always encouraging the support, to best of one’s ability, of men’s organizations which I see helping the MRM.
Mickey T, I agree with your assessment. That’s why I hope the Republicans take a majority in both chambers, even though they probably won’t accomplish much except slowing the agenda, as you said.
The only genuine positive feeling I have about it is that Rand Paul is almost certain to win his Senate seat in Kentucky. He is someone that isn’t content to retard the big government agenda. He is 100% about repealing laws and actually shrinking government.
feminists vote democrat so i’ve voted republican….its the one thing I can do !
@ John
Exactly!
But, just making that statement here, where it could influence men in a positive way, is doing more.
I think this article makes good points about the misandry culture and how men and women are treated differently.
I especially like the nicely raised point, French had a man taking care of her while she stated she shrugged off men. That makes her a liar.
It brought a picture in my mind ‘moment’ of MGTOW being a generation of young men living off their mums and dads or single mothers with the attitude, ‘I do what I want, when I want’ but I know that’s far from what MGTOW is about.
Another picture moment is the cultures where parents consider it the norm to hand over the parental responsibility of their daughters to a husband who takes on the responsibility. Haha, that’s going to have to change.
The Republicans will also continue to ignore men and pander to women, as long as they know that they have your vote. Feminist democrats or chivalrous republicans…both are a problem.
Angry Harry says.
****Our main ‘problem’ is our failure to get *ongoing* publicity.
There are many reasons for this, but this really is our biggest problem.****
The main reason from a journalist pint of view is that news is something new. If you phoned the media and said, “Such and such is protesting outside a courthouse”, the media will say, “They’ve been doing that for years”.
If you were to ask the media what they will write about on your behalf, they will say, “Give us something new that you are doing”, or “Present something like someone’s personal story when a political move is happening” or “If you are out there presenting your works to groups or are holding a special speaker” let us know.
Community groups have their own personal journalists and they phone them up each time they have something interesting happening or want a say about something political”.
Just thought I’d add something some people might not know.
@ Eincrou
I’m with you on RP. Campaign promises are always better when backed up with a voting record. Can’t have everything.
@ Denis
Which is worse, Denis? If what you say is true, I would take a chivilrous Repub over a feminist ANYTHING. How can you compare the two? Chivalry is overlooking some of it, while feminism is CAUSING it all.
If you hurry you might catch that flight to Utopia.
Don’t mean to be sarcastic, but I’ve heard this too many times and it still makes no sense to me. I also believe that attitude hinders the cause.
Also, you and all men, would do well by going to Phyliss Schlafly”s website and search feminists and democrats. You might be surprised.
Mickey T, you’re arguing against a point that nobody has made. Neither Denis nor I contests the idea that Republicans are obviously less likely than the Democrats to do outrageous things with government.
But, if you think an acknowledgement of that blatantly obvious fact should translate into him or me actually positively supporting Republicans, I’m going to have to disappoint you. I don’t know if you’re actually saying that, but the general idea that Republicans aren’t as egregiously bad as the Democrats would only be denied by a fool, in my opinion.
Democrats are a -100, and the Republicans are slightly better at -75.
Take the Democrats out of the picture and look only at the Republicans and they are still in the negative, i.e. an enemy. I will only support candidates that are friends of liberty, of which the Republicans have very few.
[img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/42883.jpg[/img]
[img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/kang-kodos.jpg[/img]
Kodos: It’s a two party system! You have to vote for one of us!
Man: He’s right, this is a two-party system.
Man 2: Well, I believe I’ll vote for a third-party candidate.
Kang: Go ahead, throw your vote away.
Real radical feminists are a small minority, it is the traditional feminine privilige and and male chauvinism that gives them all their power.
ROFL, Denis.
The left-right paradigm is fooling fewer and fewer people. The Ds and Rs are only considered to be opposition by people with no imagination; people who allow them to set the limits and bounds of acceptable thought. They pretend to be enemies, but if they were you’d see them repealing the efforts of the other. Rather, they count on us having short memories. Right now, the Republican establishment has been forced into saying the right things like never before, but the agenda that has been seamlessly carried out over the decades will not stop.
You know, I really love my brother Mickey. Damned good man. But I have to sound off on this one in dissent. And by the way, I will have more to say in my upcoming election piece, “Obamatons and Bushtards”
If you do your research, you have to know that Republikans have been no friend to men, no friend to the constituion and no friend to small government. What Mickey is talking about is an ideal that Republikans used to stand for.
You can also google Repulikan records on voting with things like bail outs, VAWA an a host of other anti freedom and anti male legistation.
The problem is that by simply promoting one party over another we are immersing ourselves in a losers game that has landed us precisely where we are.
I love the way Bernard set out the parameters for his Men’s Voting Block, and if I had thought he was insincere, or just wanted to promote Republikan candidates, that video would not be on this website. As it stands, I couldn’t wait to get it posted. Bernard, in my opinion, has impeccable integrity and high stanards, so I trust his intentions.
That being said, it is also clear to me that conservatives may offer more hope than other candidates. But we have to hold their feet to the fire, and we don’t do that at all by acting like cheerleaders for the RNC.
The RNC is an enemy, but one that may be molded into serving our cause. Let’s put the hammer on the bastards and force their hand at making real changes instead of selling us out like they have been for so long.
Good God, you guys. I never claimed to be a great communicator, but is that any reason to banish me from A Voice?
Havn’t you ever heard of the “lesser of two evils” theory?
Paul,
This isn’t the first time we disagreed on where that infamous line is. We are buried so far down in deep shit, they look like a picnic. “ideal”? Now there’s breakdown in communication.
Eincrou,
In my opinion, Denis DID imply there is not much difference between the parties. I’ve heard that crap for too many years. It’s nonsense and lemmondlike to say such a thing. And I’m not even talking about you. But, now that you mention it, I think your 75-100 opinion is way off.
Denis,
Your last sentence is irrelevent. Traditional feminine power didn’t create the abuse and neglect of children, throw men into almost total slavery, weaken our country’s defense, on and on. I know it wasn’t fair to men in the past, but now I suppose men would rather have it back, than to be in this mess. One step at a time, you’re going too fast for me.
This is not an election of what candidate you want to win, it’s an election of who you DON’T want to win.
Again, read Phyliss Schlafly. She may be able to communicate my point better than me. I can see by the responses that most do not know what the dems are doing to promote feminism.
At least I got you guys to give this critical matter a little more attention, I think. I’ve always felt that it should be a priorty, because that’s the we got into this slime hole to begin with.
I would like to comment on Bernards proposal. How long do I have to wait, before re applying for A Voice posting privilages?
Steel your wits, because you will hear it more and more. People are finally waking up to the full continuum of possibilities and refusing to accept that we have to submit to the ruling class’ tag team exploitation of our nation.
The only material differences between the parties are best summed up by Judge Andrew Napolitano:
I just emailed the Dino Rossi campaign here in Washington State, asking what he has done or will do if he is elected to the senate. If he comes to my hometown I will try to meet him and ask him again why he deserves the male voting bloc in Washington state.
Mickey, LOL! Chill dude!! WTF gave you the idea you were banished? Comment away, no one is censoring you here. And never will.
Or were you just being dramatic for effect?
Oh, let me toss some gasoline here on the fire. I don’t see a hairs difference in the parties when it boils down to what they actually do. I am not implying it, I am declaring it.
Governor Chris Christie is a Republican who has followed through with his promises to shrink the government of New Jersey. He’s a guy that has a direct, honest, and masculine approach I believe many in the MRM would approve of.
The second video is him using facts and undeniable argumentation to smack down an entitled female teacher peddling the typical bullshit about how they work so hard and are underpaid/undervalued. Gov. Christie is the real deal and someone I wholeheartedly support. If the Republicans produced more men like him and the Pauls, who win elections in landslides, they could take over governments across the nation. Curious, then, that they refuse to do so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUDN40oszjk
Re: Dems vs. Reps: Republicans are no better than Democrats here. And we should avoid making the mistake the Christian right made ten years ago: they allied up with the Republican party, and as a result, they lost the hearts and minds of a generation of Americans. Republicans are not on your side, they will say what it takes to get your vote, and then fuck you in the ass. The GOP is the party of big business, and big business looooooves itself a nice liberated woman with a big fat mastercard.
Although I do respect the good judge, and much of what he says is true, I don’t agree with everything he says.
I think you may be missing my point. I’m not elevating the repubs, but de-elevating (if that’s a word) the dems. I’m well aware of the things mentioned here about the repubs, and much more. The party is rich in RINOs and prostitutes, people like Graham, Collins, Snow, Pataki…..even Hatch has let me down lately. Many others vote with the dems. But, they are, as a whole and on the most crucial issue of our time, feminism, a hell of a lot better than the dems.
I’ve believed, for about the last twenty years, that feminism, particularly, radical feminism, is the greatest destuctive force facing our country.
I don’t believe you, and many others, know what feminist legislation the dems are responsible for. And the enormously negative impact it has on our country today.
The Democratic Party is THOROUGHLY corrupt. One Cannot be a member, if they don’t follow the party’s MO and ideologies. PERIOD!
Let’s just say, for the moment, your 100-75 would be, regarding the abomination which is NOW upon us, my 200-75.
@ Paul
If there was no difference in what the parties actually do, you especially, would be in solitary confinement. Literally.
So, why don’t we just go to the dem party to cure our woes. They bribe easily for political support and money. They don’t give a rat’s ass about legislation infringing on human rights………
@ Paul
To clarify my first paragraph, I believe that if the repubs did the same things as the dems, you would be in solitary because you are doing something right.
The second paragraph means the dems don’t care about any legislation violating human rights, as long as THEY sponser it. As what they did to men and children.
If you want to pick the lesser of two evils…go for it.
Personally, I say shrug it, neither the dems or repubs are friends to men.
Support the independants and ignore the major parties until they come to their senses.
[img]http://avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/kodos_dont blame me.jpg[/img]
@ Factory
That is exactly what we are working on right now: a blueprint. My partner and I are meeting at least once a week to work on the organizational structure and our plan of attack.
BTW – I recently contacted you via Reddit so you should have an idea of who I am…
@ Matthew Graybosch
Kudos to you for going out there and giving it a shot! You’ve done more than the majority of men are willing to do. But realistically this will take more than 1 man and a couple of years. We must be prepared to fight. Feminism didn’t become a powerful force overnight. Those activists fought and kept pushing for their agenda day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year.
From The Phyliss Schlafly Report- Feb 2010
Obama Panders to the Feminists
“A White House document entitled Opportunity and Progress for Women and Girls describes 15 federal programs that will receive increased federal funding to appease the feminists. Chief among them is VAWA , which is targeted for a 22% increase, an extra $117 million more than the current funding , which is already close to $1 billion a year.That earmark is a Joe Biden project known as feminist pork because the money goes right into hands of radical feminist centers where they teach their anti-male, anti-marriage ideology. counsel women to get a divorce, and urge criminal prosecution against a man no matter how slight or unverified the alleged offense. ”
Seems the dems have us paying to be hated……..
To be continued-
@ Mickey
With complete republikan complicity and sposorship. Men will never be helped by being blind to half the truth, and by parroting the kind of sound bites we can expect on cable news, which makes your whole schtick here a non starter.
Sorry. MT. we don’t have “what would hannity say” bracelets to wear here- Thank God.
An sorry Mickey, but I couln’t resist this one.
“Although I do respect the good judge, and much of what he says is true, I don’t agree with everything he says.”
You mean anythng he says that doesn’t support the GOP?
@ Mickey,
Lesser of two evils means that they’re both shit, but one has more flies.
I like Phyliss Schlafly, she’s a rare gem and not a politician. Are there any politicians who publically support her views?
Radical feminists are definitely a problem but why support politically correct cowards that do nothing to oppose them and nothing for men?
Why support alpha’s and beta-male enforcers of feminine privilege?
I believe that the issue of partasanship is of tantimount importance to the MRM. Some of the most oppresive features of both domestic violence and child support came as a result of rabid support from ultra conservative Republican politicians like Rep. Judge Poe who is quite possibly the biggest freak on the hill when it comes to supporting VAWA. George bush was the one who realy put teeth in the Bradly Amendment when he decided that it would be a great idea if we threw men in jail for failure to pay child support thus putting every non custodial father at risk of incarceration for simply loosing his job. Remember Bob Packwood? The guy crept on all of his female staff and even documented it carefully in his diary. What a douchebag! And who were his most outspoken defenders? Feminsts! He gave the feminist lobby everything they asked for with his vote. When I saw a representative from NOW defending him on TV because of his voting record I was amazed at the lack of priciples.
True, the democrats are not our friends but we must understand that misandry and bias against men shows no political bounds and is, in fact, ingraned in to law itself.
I deeply respect devotion to any political party but one must be very carefull of the intentions of any political entity in todays misandric world.
@ Paul,
“With complete republican complicity……….”
I’ve never seen any evidence of that. The unholy alliance between the dems and the fems has been well documented for many years.
I watch Sean Hannity occaisionally. I often have criticism for him, as well as praise.
“You mean anything he says that doesn’t support tha GOP?”
I thought the judge was a repub. I am not a Republican, I’m a registered Independent and consider myself conservative. While I have contempt for the dem party, I have a great deal of criticism for the GOP. I mentioned some individuals earlier. I just know what political party which has hurt men and children the most. This, I thought, is common knowledge.
Now why would anyone vote against an article by a woman with impeccable credentials such as Phyliss Schlafly? Maybe she is some sort of repub operative?
I’m not idolizing the GOP, it’s the only “political place” where we have a chance to get some help right now.
I’ve not heard any better ideas than those that take a longer time than we have to survive under the present conditions. But I’m still all ears.
@ Mickey T
Radical feminists have been known to team up with right wing conservative groups to do things like ban pornography and go after “deadbeat” dads.
Radical feminists will work with any political party that can advance the RadFem agenda.
@ Mickey T
VAWA was passed and has been refunded with substantial repubican support. It was originally signed into law by George Bush.
Ronald Reagan was the first governor to sign no fault divorce into law.
It was Richard Nixon that signed title IX into law after it garnered widespread support from republicans as well as the dems who sponsored the bill.
Gerald Ford signed Title IV-D into law, which turned family courts into corrupt profit centers that have inflicted the worst kinds of abuses on men.
Those four things are the most significant pieces of legislation that have resulted in extreme civil rights violations practiced against men. It is clear that much of it was pushed by democrats, but the record is crystal clear. Republicans have agressively involved themselves in misandric legislation. And they need to be held to account instead of being hailed as an answer to our problems.
@ Denis
Radical fems are THE problem.
“why support politically correct cowards who do nothing to oppose them and do nothing for men?”
Because we have two choices. People who have given us the shaft, and will certainly continue to do so if reelected, or people who have NOT given us the shaft but do nothing to help us. We vote for the non-shafters to halt the continuation of the shaft. We’re ahead right there. Then, we make it crystal clear to the candidate we elect, what we expect in return for our support and what we expect in order to continue our support. We do this as a group and we don’t waiver.
See their plan is working, most of the comments are about the Left and the Right! I’m 30, I saved my virginity till I was damn near 26 becuase I wanted to find the right women and get married blah blah blah despite being an good looking guy(according to women) I was shy and a preacher’s son(nuff said), I didn’t know any better. That RIGHT women was 5 years older with 4 kids, needless to say she wanted a slave, even though she LOVES me she treated me like her child.
Long story short. If I had invested all that time and money in MYSELF I would be more satisfied with my life. Women are a bad investment, you’ll get a better return with yourself. I’m living with parents and no job right now but at least I see the truth. Just as I don’t believe in the State and Governments anymore, thanks Thoreau, my belief relationships has died. There is a thing called Love but we’ve been feed a false love.
The MRM tends to focus on gender-related issues to the exclusion of the zillions of other things going on in the world (which is an appropriate thing to do, IMO), but feminism/misandry is definitely not the only, or even most important, problem we face. It is certainly one of the most unacknowledged aspects of our declining situation, but there are other agendas that threaten men, women and children. I have followed these things for years before learning about feminism’s role. The Republicans’ relatively less rabid gender policies count for almost nothing in the big picture.
@Mickey
Don’t support either party – but undermine the Dems more than the Republicans!
Howzat?
My name is Paul Elam and I approve of this statement.
@ angryharry
“Howzat”?
Zat’s terrible!! How are these oppressive laws, most of which have been in place for decades, going to change??? Osmosis??? A coup??? Anarchy??? Wait and see how it goes???
We need to take action NOW, while there is a great opportunity for us, which we may never see again.
I think I need to go outside and scream now.
I’ll be back to address Paul and whoever else.
Mickey,
Promoting fear of feminist democrats and pretending that chivalrous republicans are the answer is deceptive politics.
There is a third option…shrug it!
@ MR
“I don’t believe in the State and Governments anymore, thanks Thoreau, my belief relationships has died. There is a thing called Love but we’ve been feed a false love.”
For myself, from birth to divorce was a wheel in a hamster cage. Every step made, was designed for the next taken. What amazes me, is being physically directed to engage the process, to support the onset of a pavlovian trance. The years of my life were spent erecting a scaffold of beliefs, habits and trust. Just high enough to make it dangerous to fall off. First the scaffold sways, so you hold on tighter, maybe even climb down a couple rungs to reinforce it. Inevitably, it’s a push a stumble or jumping that takes you off the scaffold. Being lucky enough to survive the fall, I look back at the scaffold still standing there and say never again. I’ll keep my feet on the ground from here on in. What I have found difficult is the next step in my life. The hamster wheel is easy, no thought required and I guess for allot of guys it’s safer.
Once I lost the beliefs of the scaffold, I was pretty empty with no direction. I think it’s like coming back from a war. You know you can’t keep doing what you did and you know you have no credentials to do what you don’t know to do. It’s weird, the whole society looks at the MM like a bunch of vets back from a war. If they don’t talk about it maybe we’ll all just go away. Allot of guys get so pissed off they start climbing their scaffold again, like a reflex, back into the hamster wheel. I imagine their thinking if enough men start climbing the scaffold again that will make it right and good. I take a strong message from it. Not to climb again but the right and good part, I think that’s what they are really trying to do. I love these guys, their strongest passion is for right and good. As for your point about love MR, I couldn’t agree more. I don’t know what it is and I suspect it’s because I haven’t given it to myself. So that’s what I’m doing. I am starting by loving myself, and like the rest of the guys, if it’s right and good, then I’ll share it.
@ Paul
Way off. VAWA was drafted by Joe Biden and originally signed into law by “Slick” in 1995. GW did renew it in 2006 WITH CHANGES. Some of those changes included the assistance of men and young people.
I don’t think I can read much into the governor of LA-LA Land signing no fault divorce law forty years ago.
I don’t, along with many others consider Nixon your typical GOP member.
I’ll research Ford.
Through all those years you are going to find repubs doing things we didn’t want, but to say “with complete republican complicity and sponsorship.” ” agressivly involved themselves in misandric legilation”………. “these four things…”I believe is misleading and partially inaccurate. The dems have passed literally thousands of laws which are unfair to men. There is no comparison.
@ Paul
I’d like to make a submission to you, that I would ask you to consider posting. No biggy just a little twist on “shrugging”. After all there’s shrugging and there’s shrugging.
How do I get it to you.
@ Keith
Fantastic! Please send it to me by pasting the text into the body of an email and I will take it from there. My email is avoiceformen@yahoo.com
And please include whatever name you want to use for a byline.
Looking forward to it!
@ Mickey
I get it, Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon weren’t real republicans. And George Bush only signed reauthorization into law. And so I am assuming you think that VAWA is now a balanced and male friendly since he didn’t veto it?
VAWA, exactly as it is since Bush signed the reauthorization, is responsible for the biggest roll back of civil rights since Jim Crow. It is an abomination, signed, sealed and delivered by a republican president.
Sorry, man, I can’t do this with you. You know the issues, but your blindly partisan politics means you will accept only a slightly lesser of capitulating evils, one that hurts men and boys to the core, while you are willing to tout it as an answer to the problem, which it clearly is not.
You are a good man, Mickey, and I completely defend your right to your beliefs, but you are playing the role of useful idiot to a poltical party that has clearly caved in to the very things most all MRA’s are concerned about. And it is disappointing that a man as intelligent as you, and as concerned about men’s issues, is willing to sacrifice them to whoever has an R behind their name.
@Mickey
Who passed the IMBRA law?
“How are these oppressive laws, most of which have been in place for decades, going to change??? Osmosis???”
They will change because of the PRESSURE that we put on politicians, professionals and the media – and, of course, the PRESSURE that we put on the population – through our activism.
The latter does not require us to support any political party.
I don’t think I’m communicating very well here. I’ll try again:
The only recourse that we have, that I can see, is political assistance (amending laws etc). That is the way we got here in the first place.
If anyone here cannot see that the dem party is responsible for the major part of our problems, they needn’t read any further.
Putting pressure on, or whatever persuasive methods one might use, the dems is, in my opinion, virtually an excercise in futility. At least with repubs the chances of assistance exists based on past performance of both parties. Apply pressure where it might be the most effective.
Today I called my US Senator’s office. I had a nice talk with one of his assistants. I told him that I represent some men’s organizations, and we are all very concerned with anti-male laws. They wanted specifics, so I went right to VAWA and the arrest of a man with only a woman’s allegation of wrong doing. They explained that some of that is local. I was unprepared, as most, or all, of us would have been. I then requested all provisions in VAWA which come under Federal guidlines (amendable by this Senator). I don’t believe ANYONE here is aware of this information inspite of much discussion on the topic. By this time they were showing signs of annoyance, which is always good. I asked for this information ASAP because the Senator is up fpor reelction this Nov.
That was my male Republican Senator. I will contact my female dem senator ASAP and keep all here apprised on the entire matter.
When I determine which level of gov’t is responsible for each provision I will persue accordingly.
@ angryharry
Sorry old boy, but SO FUCKING WHAT!
SAVE THE MACRO LENS FOR INSECTS!
Besides, I havn’t heard your intelectual analysis on the worth and value of IMBRA.
No rush on that!
You are right. I say put your effort into using the party etc who is most likely to help you. If it means supporting them to get what we want, then support them.
BTW, when is all this “pressure” going to come about?
Here in the US we are coming up on a crucial election. We need more action and perhaps less profoundly and intellectually insiteful dessertations on countless related or otherwise topics.
@Mickey
“BTW, when is all this “pressure” going to come about?”
An asinine question like that suggests to me that you are just being bloody-minded.
“I say put your effort into using the party etc who is most likely to help you.”
And what if no party is *likely* to help you, eh? What then Mickey?
Nothing, according to you, it would seem; given that you think that supporting some party or other is the only solution.
So, I repeat: What if no party is likely to support you? What do you do then?
” when is all this “pressure” going to come about?”
When more people listen to Paul Elam!
@Mickey
And, further, why on Earth would any political party support men’s rights at this particular point in time when they would almost certainly end up losing votes by doing so?
They would be attacked from all over the place by powerful feminist-dominated media groups, academics and others.
Just like MRAs are attacked.
Maybe you should read more to find out what happens to people (and politicians) who do not kowtow to the feminist/Marxist/globalist/politically-correct agenda.
They get hammered.
@Mickey
“Today I called my US Senator’s office. I had a nice talk with one of his assistants. I told him that I represent some men’s organizations, and we are all very concerned with anti-male laws. ”
That is first-class activism.
“By this time they were showing signs of annoyance, which is always good.”
Even better!
LOL!
That’s great work Mickey, you have to raise the issues and voice your dissent.
Never, never promise them your vote until they have something tangible to offer for men. If they don’t perform support an independant.
On traditional chauvinism and feminine privilege…
http://www.westernstandard.ca/website/article.php?id=2742
The sinking of the Titanic illustrates powerfully how gender expectations that favour women go almost unnoticed–or if noticed, approved–even in our equality-conscious age. If a contemporary statistic is needed to support this claim, consider that 97.4 per cent of occupational deaths occur to men. This is not an employment opportunity that anyone seems eager to equalize. A century after the Titanic, we still instinctively lump women and children together, first, in almost every social policy or program where gender is a relevant variable.
Feminism has enjoyed remarkable success, in an historically short period of time, reshaping society to eliminate the disadvantages suffered by women under traditional gender norms. This success has been possible only because feminism preys on a powerful, natural inclination of deference to women that is bred into both men and women alike. If women feel passionately about wanting something, it just isn’t manly or prudent for men, individually or collectively, to deny it to them. In the ideological battle of the sexes, it is of the first importance to understand the origins and power of this innate inclination of deference to women.
@ Denis
“Promoting fear of feminist democrats…….”
I’m doing neither. I just want to give dems as little power as possible. The power that has given fems control over all our lives.
Then we work on amending.
@ angryharry
“What if no party will help…?
Don’t want to waste time on your hypotheticals. I’m in the process of finding out. How about you? How did you find out for sure?
Reread- I said party ETC. You guys are reading what you want to read. Is that called “reading comprehension”?
“When more people listen to Paul Elam”
When enough people listen to him, then???? when????
I’m getting older everyday, Harry. Got to do something.
Would it surprise you to know I have no dog in this fight? I’ve never let any bitch jerk me around. I’m deeply sadened at what has happened my brothers and the children.
“They get hammered”?
Did you expect it would be a picnic? We already are in the trenches.
Right, Denis.
I said to him, “convince me to vote for you”
@Denis
When I said right, I was referring to your description of how easily men are manipulated. It’s expected.
Somewhere along here in these men’s rights blogs I saw a very appropriate description of men as being the “shit gender”.
@Mickey
“Don’t want to waste time on your hypotheticals.”
My sentiment only seems ‘hypothetical’ to those who have yet to understand more fully how the political process actually works.
Indeed, you admit that you are just in the process of doing this. I quote you, …
“I’m in the process of finding out.”
And what you will discover is that what I am saying is correct.
It’s very simple.
Politicians, right now, do not want to upset the feminists and their supporters, because if they do upset them, then they are in for a hammering.
The only way to change this is to change public opinion.
And when, finally, a particular politician or party, finally decides that it would be wise for them to do much more for men, then I am sure that both Mr Elam and I will give them our support.
@Mickey,
When you realize that the politicians don’t care, I hope you continue critisizing them for their lack of concern and action.
To quote angryharry:
I don’t know who you are, Sir, but I can tell you what you are worth. If your partner was to cut off your penis tonight, the world would laugh.
http://www.angryharry.com/esWhataPieceofShtisMan.htm
Here in Washington state we have a very important race for senate. I will not waste my time with the fem/dem incumbent. That being said, I will not vote for the (R) until he makes it public that he supports Men’s Rights and will vote to repeal VAWA and other legislation.
@ angryharry
Before going any further, understand this- there is a difference between some loose words getting thrown around when emotions are running high, as this subject always does, and disrespect. I did not intend any disrespect to Paul, you or anyone else here. We are all here for the same reason. So, please refer to Paul by his first name when addressing me. And please don’t patronize.
I know all of what you are saying, but I get this feeling that by the time you and Paul are ready to support a party we will be a third world country. Or, we all will be in another world before that ever happens.
I believe, with the help of others and at this particular moment in time, we can start gaining influence at the legislative level if we act promptly. I don’t know if you can understand that.
Politicians, contrary to popular belief, are also humans. I believe that many see the wrong and would prefer to change it but can’t, as you say, under the circumstances. Some just might act after this Nov. provided they see some support. Which is what I’m trying to accomplish. I don’t think we will ever get the opportunity to get this much support from the opposition in our lifetime.
@ Patrick
Did you make your feelings known to the Republican candidate?
@angryharry
Correction: SOME politicians are human.
@Mickey
I do agree with your view that there are some politicians who would like to do more for men. Indeed, only a few weeks ago, here in the UK, the new government wanted to give anonymity to men accused of rape.
Guess what happened.
As soon as they articulated their intentions, they were threatened by the well-orchestrated feminist lobby. In essence, they said, “We will scream and howl all over the media if you go ahead with this idea, and we will label you ‘abusers of women’ etc etc etc”
And so the government (YES, THE GOVERNMENT – THAT WAS ALREADY IN POWER) backed down.
The idea has been dropped.
***That’s*** the way that it works out there.
Scream and holler and you get your way. Otherwise, you don’t.
@angryharry
So, men will become free if or when they say so.
They are the government. The Conservative and Labour Parties are the clerks.
The problem is that the manginas and the White Knights more often than not make policy.
Today I called my dem US Senator’s office in Washington DC and explained my position as I did yesterday with my repub US Senator.
I was told in order to discuss my concerns on VAWA etc. I would have to contact their “LC” (legislative correspondent) via email. I was given the address and advised to “give him a heads up and tell him that I wanted to call him and talk about men’s issues and VAWA sometime this week” “don’t take him by surprise”. I thanked the young woman.
Stay tuned.
My own thought is that (for me) political advocacy and activism is a lost cause, a waste of time, and an illusion UNLESS you have huge, inexhaustible financial resources. The vast majority of our state and federal elected officials are bought and paid for. The more things change the more they stay the same (unless there is heaps of money and the potential for personal profit involved). When a government abrogates the rights of the people (and in our case the rights of a select group of people — men and boys) by passing more-and-more restrictive laws, the people affected by those laws tend to never get their rights back. As Thomas Jefferson has said “Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. ” Of course Jefferson also said, ”
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.” The time for speaking up has long since passed, IMHO, but each of us must act upon what they think and feel is best for their own interests.
The pressing question for me is how does one conduct oneself under tyranny? The best advice I have found comes from my own years of experience working under and watching Information Technology managers and teams, and recently from a site I found a two years ago concerning “Fighting Paranoid and Incompetent Micro-managers (PIMMs)” http://www.softpanorama.org/Social/Toxic_managers/Micromanagers/fighting_micromanagers.shtml
The same principles that apply to surviving and thriving under PIMMs applies to men going their own way and those that want to avoid the legal entanglements of feminist jurisprudence. Have a read of the information at the link above. It may help you in your work and in your advocacy and activism (or as in my case, to simply move on and go your own way).
“The pressing question to me is how does one conduct oneself under tyranny?”
How did the early feminists conduct themselves when they believed they were under tryanny? And how far did it get them?
“The pressing question to me is how does one conduct oneself under tyranny?”
How did the early feminists conduct themselves when they believed they were under tryanny? And how far did it get them?
The early feminists organized and fought the system, BUT THEY WERE GRANTED POWER BY THOSE IN POWER (mostly men and certain families with heaps of money and political clout). Once new laws are passed that restrict freedoms and liberty and assign rights to one group at the expense of another group, those rights will never be returned until there is massive social incentive to do so. Moral panic and hysteria will keep the current system as it is and allow it to grow — no amount of men’s right activism will change it unless we get major financial backing and provide other incentives to those in power. The best thing to do without the political or financial backing is document it and figure out as an individual man how to best protect yourself from the tyrants: be it individual women, groups and institutions, or the government.
The question behind your question is: “Why were women granted this power in the first place?” If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say that it is an attempt to control the world population and establish control over as many people as possible by destroying the family as the basic unit of power in the society and assigning that power to the state. Rosie the Riveter’s daughters got birth control pills in the 1960′s and corporations turned them all into corporate tools.
Where did all these efforts get the feminists? Into a position of power so that they can falsely accuse any man or boy they please of rape or domestic violence, and assume the role of hapless, helpless victims. Ultimately, this will backfire because the western world will only be sustainable if there is equal justice under law and a restoration of due process. The “Misandry Bubble” explains where we’ll likely be in 20 years if things continue as they are currently:
http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html
“The early feminists organized and fought the system……..”
I see it much the same as you. What you left out, is that men who gave them power, prostituted their legislative influence for political support. Vote for me, and I’ll pass ANY law you want. The same way that it’s working in the dem party today. From Obama on down.
“Heaps of money….. “?
Men have plenty of money. The greatest disadvantage men are faced with is their common decency which the fems never let get in their way.
And, when men reconcile with fact that they cannot free themselves while being gentlemen, and are able, or willing, to “bit the bullet” only then will they finally see some freedom.
Difficult, women have their nature working for them, while men have their nature working against them.
Women always have it easier, don’t they?
That’s why I believe the only way to freedom is politically. Other than being close to equal in the eyes of the law, men don’t have to forfiet too much of their gentlemanlike manor.
I hate to say this, but I believe our future as men will be radically changed in the not so distant future. Society is currently changing from a Patriarchy to a Matriarchy, and the result of a Matriarchy for men will be castration and slavery.
I am currently working on a long explanation as to why I believe this will inevitably happen.
Here are the basics:
With the advent of machines, men are less important to society. There is little need for strength anymore, and we live quite comfortable lives, so the need for innovation has been lowered as well.
There is still one important reason to have men around, and that is war. When war breaks out, as it will very soon, men are needed to bravely protect the women and children from harm. But after the war is over, the blame for said war is placed squarely on men’s shoulders.
I strongly believe that World War 3 is coming soon due to the economic depression. This war will be far worse than any other war ever experienced by humanity. The numbers of dead could easily top 1 billion, due to famine, civil war, and war between nations.
The world is currently over populated, so this war will be productive for our environment. Although, over population would easily occur again within a few generations.
If we do, in fact, have a world war, what will the future, after this war, look like?
I believe there are three possibilities:
1) Mass chaos and death across the world leaves the world fragmented across cultures, languages, races, and religions. Leading to thousands of patriarchical small thiefdoms. These thiefdoms eventually grow and start the whole process of nation building all over again.
2) A return to normalcy with current national boundries and the possibility of yet another world war after a few generations.
3) A world government with local authorities reporting to the worldwide parliament.
In my estimation, the future will definitely be #3. The stated goal of this government will be to avoid another world war at all costs. This government will be the first lasting Matriarchy in history. It will be run by women and for women.
There will be 2 classes of women and 2 classes of men. All men, including those in the upper class will be castrated at age 16 or so.
All reproduction will be done via en vitro fertilization.
Women will rule and men will be relegated to dangerous jobs.
That is about it for now. If you don’t believe this could happen, think harder about it.
The Schlafly Report – continued
Obama Panders to the Feminists Feb 2010
When Obama presented his multi-trillion dollar budget, he declared with great fanfare that he was calling for a freeze in discretionary spending . Feminists immedieatly had a tantrum to complain that the freeze exempted funding for the military, intelligence and homeland security……………………………………………….To please the Feminists, other spending that will be exemted from Obama’s freeze includes an addtional $400 million for the discretionary nutrition program for low-income women and an increase of $10 million for family planning………………………………..Obama’s budget also provides for an additional $1.6 billion for the Child Care and Developement Fund as part of reauthorization of government spending of daycare. The Feminists believe that child care should be taken over by the government in order to overcome society’s expectation that mothers should care for their own babies.
@Seth L:
Your third scenario is what we’re being inexorably driven toward. I don’t know if war will be the catalyst. The political establishments of the west are determined to centralize power into unelected, unaccountable bureaucratic superstates. They’ve done quite well in amassing incredible power over all aspects of life without such catastrophes. Feminism has been just one vector the globalists have used to achieve this.
The time to fight this peacefully is now. Governments have made it clear that they are not going to stop gaining more power and control. Either freedom lovers somehow force them to stop or they will continue down this path toward tyranny.
@Eincrou:
I agree that #3 will be the inevitable conclusion of our current condition. I also believe world war is the inevitable conclusion to our current economic situation. Because I see both of these conclusions as inevitable, I don’t see any reason to try and fight it right now.
What I do agree with, is to start planning for this eventuality, and to band together in communities to protect ourselves and specifically our sons from the tyranny that is coming.
By the way, I have never been a conspiracy nut. My thoughts on this began after reading an article called The End of Men. The article got me thinking of what happens AFTER a catalyst like a world war.
One thing that is quite interesting about my thoughts on this, is that it actually lines up very well with biblical prophesy. In a well established Matriarchy, where men are sufficiently suppressed, there actually would be no war. Other than small skirmishes with rebels at the beginning of the Matriarchy’s reign.
Excuse me, but what is a shopworn pussy? I dont understand the expresion.
Hi Daniel,
The reference is to women who screw anything in sight, and then still try to treat their vagina like it is some sort of scarce commodity.
Cheers.
Everyone has probably left this dicussion, but I said to stay tuned for further developements with my anti VAWA “campaign, so here it is:
My dem female Us Sen is not up for re-election for four years. However I made my groups feelings clear to her staff.
MY repub male version is no longer taking my calls. I pinned down one of his senior staff members after he tried to brush me off, by saying, “so, all you can tell me is that the Sen feels that everyone who commits a crime should be punished and nobody should be falsely accused”. He lost patience with me, after I lost patience with him, so he referred me to some flighty young sounding girl. She was also useless. So, I ended the conversation by advising her that the Sen lost my vote and I will inform the groups which I represent of such.
And that’s exactly what I did. I voted early.
I hope you get that, Paul, if you are listening. I dumped my Republican US Senator.
FYI- VAWA is up for renewal next year. It needs a 2/3 majority in the House and Senate to pass.
Happy voting
What kind of wimpy bullshit is this?? “We can’t win, so shrug it off”? And you’re calling *them* manginas? A man fight for what he wants he doesn’t cower and hide for fear that he’ll be beaten (lol and by women at that) Seems to me that you guys are the manginas who are afraid of women. The whole message just seems so defeatist and cowardly.
And yes, this is me (some random unknown internet person) telling you what a man is…The time is NOW, not 20 years from now, stop being a bitch, reattach your testicles and fight for what’s right!
LOL! You used to be able to set your watch by the fact that whenever you post an MRA piece some white knight almost immediately jumps in to tell everyone what a real man is. As though any of you know, or ever did.
Luckily it seems in recent years you guys are reaching some sort of half life, so you just wander in on the tail end of a month old article, blowing harder than an unknown starlet.
OK, dude, so what’s your story? I mean, we all know your “man enough” to drop in to a group of strangers, bearing a fake name and calling everyone “bitch.”
Oh, yeah, number one man material if I ever saw it.
But just out of curiosity, oh keyboard Rambo, just what the fuck are you suggesting we fight for? The right to take care of a woman and let her leech her way through life on blow jobs for the first year?
I mean, isn’t that how its done in your house?
I was late getting to it Mickey, and in fact might have missed your post here if I didn’t have to approve the one from the douchebag above.
But I hear you loud and clear, brother. And may I say, good job!!
Thanks, Paul. But, but are you feeling up to all this?
I never said that ALL repubs a good, I just say that ALL dems are not.
Voting records and “intentions” tell a lot.
“keyboard Rambo”? is that one of yours?
I am feeling much better, Mickey. While I still have the damned stones, the one that was causing all the problems migrated to the bottom of my kidney out of the way. They scheduled my laser for just after vacation and took the damned stent out! I am 1000% improved in the way I feel, and will now have a lot more fun.
And I do believe that “keyboard Rambo” is mine. Unless, of course, some Keyboard Rocky wants to claim it belongs to him.
lol, when I posted that, I had just found your site through Google, (I didn’t even know it was that old) and maybe I misunderstood what you were saying, but I got out of it that we shouldn’t try to fight against the feminist machine, and should, instead use this passive-aggressive “Shrug” and maybe…EVENTUALLY our Feminist overlords will allow us to be one of her “House Niggers”. My post was to say that we should be ACTIVE and AGGRESSIVE in our fight for egual rights. I said that being a bitch who just sits and whines isn’t where it should end.
Hell, I’m burning Jock straps, Anyone want to join S.C.A.B (Society for Choking A Bitch)?
Fuck these Bitches
That is one way of defining the shrug. The actual point of the article is that we fight best by writing them off and taking care of ourselves instead of them.
Don’t marry them. Don’t finance them. Don’t rescue them. Don’t do the heavy work for them. Let them take care of themselves, or get their house niggers to do it for them.
For most men that actually takes more balls than getting in their faces.
And I support that as well. This site is about as in-your-face as any in the MRM. But that doesn’t stop me from walking by a woman being assaulted or raped and shouting, “Hey, call 911! And have a nice day!”
I believe once the numbers of men who shrug it off reaches critical mass it will get daddy government’s attention. Sometimes silence speaks louder than any words ever could. As far as political parties are concerned; republicans and democrats both kiss the ass of femminism. Although if I must choose the lesser of two evils I am siding with Angry Harry on this one