Karate

Hitting out

It was the mid-1980s, and I was fourteen years old. I’d recently seen the movie An Officer and a Gentlemen, and became interested in karate as a result.

Now, I ask you, what teenage boy wouldn’t want to do karate after watching that movie?

I think the scene where teenage Zack gets beaten up by a Filipino gang did more to get young boys involved in martial arts than anything else at the time. It certainly worked on me, and I started attending a local karate club shortly after. I became reasonably good at karate over the next year or so.

I’m not sure whether, if I’d have continued, I would have become exceptional or anything, but I was keen and that’s what mattered. And I certainly looked up to the instructor of the club—he was a strong male role model for me, and I would have followed his every instruction without question. If he had told me to jump off a cliff as part of a martial arts training exercise, I would have done so without too much hesitation.

But there were some unhappy aspects of my childhood. I didn’t mix too well, and in some ways, the truth was that I lonely and isolated. I spent most of my time reading science books, programming computers and listening to classical music. In fact, I thought that everybody my age did those kind of things, but later, I would learn that this wasn’t the case. An interest in the opposite sex didn’t happen for me until I was seventeen years old, but around the age of fourteen to fifteen, the only things I cared about were computers, electronics and science.

So getting involved in martial arts was an important break for me. It gave me an interest that was not solitary in nature, and it did a lot for my self-esteem. But then one week, a sequence of events would have unfortunate consequences for me. These are memories I’ve not been back to for a very long time.

The club I attended practised the Shotokan style of karate, and during training sessions, we would often find a partner and spar with each other. I liked sparring session best of all, because it was competitive. It was kind of like play fighting I guess, but it wasn’t full contact and pretty harmless. However, I recall that in one of these sessions I was tapped on the shoulder by a woman who had been sparring with someone else behind to me. She told me that I had caught her hand with a stray kick. I hadn’t realised, but she seemed OK, so I apologized and thought nothing more of it at the time.

Later the same week, there was another, but unrelated incident. An older woman attended the club one evening. She was in her forties perhaps. As far as I can remember, it was the first and only time she came, and as we often did, we paired up for a sparring session that evening. I found myself in the unfortunate situation of having to pair up with her.

Looking back now, it’s obvious to me that a genuine desire to learn karate was not the real reason she was there. I suspect that there had been some anguish in her life, and perhaps she was there because she wanted to learn “self defence”. I don’t know, but whatever the reason, the only thing she wanted to do that night was to hit out at a male—any male. And a fifteen year old boy would do.

She came at me, her face contorted in rage, wildly swinging hook punches. This wasn’t karate at all! Confused, I simply moved around and avoided all contact with her. At the end of the session I went to shake her hand, which was the custom, but she walked off toward the instructor. A few seconds later, he called me over.

When I got there, I caught the end of her calmly explaining how I had hit her. It wasn’t true, but I never got the chance say a word.

Without, a second thought, the instructor turned to me and “punched” me in the stomach. He held back the blow, so the effect was more one of shock rather than physical harm. He said something about not hitting women and told me to get back in line. I just kind of accepted my “punishment” because I didn’t really understand what had just happened. I remember thinking it was a bit unfair, but I don’t recall reading too much into it at the time. I was more confused than anything. I never saw her again anyway, but things didn’t end there.

I turned up for training at the club, as usual, the following week. What I didn’t know then was that the first women, the woman who I had accidentally clipped with a stray kick the week earlier, had spoken to the instructor since. She had, apparently, received a fractured bone in her wrist. I say “apparently” because I hadn’t known about it—I only learned that information quite sometime later through a chance encounter. However, on the basis of what he heard, the instructor had decided that he was going to teach me a lesson, I guess.

Toward the end of the class, he interrupted training and asked me to come out to front, where he had pulled out a table. He told me to get on it and to start doing press-ups, which I did. This went on for quite some time, and I began to struggle because the sweat that was dripping from me on to the smooth table surface was causing my feet to slide uncontrollably.

Next, he suggested that we spar—just him and me—in front of the class. As a lanky teenager against a fast and powerful adult black belt, I stood absolutely no chance. Time and again, he punched me in the forehead and my legs buckled underneath me, and each time he dragged me up by my hair and forced me to carry on.

In reality, the attack was controlled and I suspect that his targeting of my forehead, rather than landing punches on my nose, was deliberate. Nevertheless, it was a public beating and a humiliation that was intended to be some kind of example. Eventually it ended, and so did the class. In the changing room later, a guy told me that he thought what had just happened was “wrong”.

I cried while cycling home that night, without actually knowing why.

I went back to the club a few times, but my heart was never in it after that and I soon stopped going. I switched from karate to running, fell back into solitary activities, and spent my evenings with computers, electronics, physics books and science fiction. People were too difficult, confusing and painful for me.

I had lost something important that night.

Afterword. I originally wrote this as an experiment in challenging society’s attitudes toward males. However, the account is entirely true—it happened to me. But it’s not your sympathy I want, but for you to ask yourself a few questions…

In the text, I qualify the woman’s actions with, “I suspect that there had been some anguish in her life.” Maybe you felt a little sympathy for her, despite her anger? I certainly did, and in fact, it felt almost obligatory for me to put in some kind of compassionate justification for her behaviour in there. But then I asked myself, why? Would I have been so considerate if she had been a he, for example?

Ask yourself this…

What would your reaction be on reading a story in which a 40 year old man turns up to a karate club one night and deliberately attempts to punch a 15 year old girl in the face?

No doubt you would simply regard him as a monster, and nothing more. Please don’t misunderstand me; this isn’t about a bad woman or a bad man, it is about the double-standards in our attitudes.

Moreover, were the actions of the club instructor in my story not really based on misguided notions of chivalry, rather than any rational assessment of the situation? Is it not true that it is often males who display prejudice to other males, but it is not actually regarded as prejudice in our society? Would he have been so willing to beat up a 40 year old woman, had he known the truth, I wonder? (I’m not suggesting that’s what he should have done.)

Finally, I also wanted to communicate that men and boys have feelings—we hurt. Not just physically, but emotionally too. It seems that this needs to be said, because male suffering often goes unseen and unacknowledged. In fact, hostility toward males is normalized in the media to such an extent that males are seen as legitimate targets of aggression. How often do you see TV shows or commercials where a man gets slapped in the face or kicked in the groin, and invited to laugh?

First published on LastLegionary.com.

About Andy Thomas (aka "Andy Man")

Andy is an outspoken advocate for human rights and a campaigner against family abuse. He writes about the harm and prejudice that men and boys routinely experience, but which society refuses to acknowledge.

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  • echofoxtrot

    I had a similar experience when I took Krav Maga (the Israeli martial arts) in Denver in the early 2000s, although it was nowhere near as bad as what you experienced. I’m sorry to hear that you experienced that bullshit. My experience with Krav Maga at the time was that the female associate instructor spent almost all her time helping the female students. Because I had learning issues, I spoke to the male head instructor about this problem. He didn’t get it, so I quit. Actually, I did have a similar sparring experience where one bitch in the class loudly complained after I put her on her ass twice (I grabbed her leg when she tried to kick me). She was obviously trying to garner sympathy, but the head instructor, to his credit, saw through her bullshit (he knew me and my personality) and didn’t do anything to me.

  • Bombay

    Very good article. Thank you.

    Your experience with the instructor reminds me of family court judges. I even had one say to me that I need to be taught a lesson and he proceeded to do so.

    • http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

      Excellent article. Great insights. Be well.

  • Iron John

    Andyman, I feel for you. Reading your story made me feel pain. Not just for you, but for myself and all the other men out there who were put through this kind of punishment in their youth. What happened to you was monstrous and it served no useful purpose. This was a conscious collaboration between a disturbed entitlement bitch and a wannabe white knight coward groveling for female approval and a sliver of social status. They both got what they wanted, but the cost
    was completely to you. I hope these morons burn in hell.

    • http://www.lastlegionary.com Andy Man

      Having recently had my eyes opened, I find myself seeing past experiences in a completely different light. I just wished I’d have had someone to talk to back then. However, wishing that either of these people should “burn in hell” are not part of my feelings. I don’t wish that all, and it’s not why I wrote it.

      • JinnBottle

        Andy – we understand that. But I also understand Iron John’s feelings. My initial reaction to anything like what you related are often violent emotions, which, however, I’m familiar enough with to know, too, that they must be kept from being acted out, and in any case will pass.

        • http://www.lastlegionary.com Andy Man

          I was very interested to read all the posts here. When I submitted this, I had no idea what kind of response it would get, or even if it would get published. Thank you all.

          Dr. F says:

          “Chivalry is the motor that feeds the gorgon machine. ”

          I think that’s so cool, I’m going to comit that to memory and use it in the future. :)

  • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

    Girlwriteswhat has written about this: some women have a tendency to use a man as their primary weapon. As men, we sometimes, maybe instinctively, go completely along with this. I have seen it, I have had it done to me and, I am ashamed to say, I have fallen prey to it and done it to other men.

    What happened to you was wrong, and dishonorable.

    There are two sides to your ultimate question though. One side says, you should be as outraged at the woman, and not-compassionate toward her by ask what drove her to behave this way. But another way of saying it would be, if a man behaves in such an inappropriate way, why are we LESS inclined to ask “why did he behave that way, what drove HIS anger?”

    I think Tim Goldich hits it on the head with his notion that women are, at least in this society, granted love and compassion pretty much automatically but in an often infantalizing way (not holding them as accountable for their actions as men), whereas men are pretty much automatically respected and thus automatically accorded blame and accountability without love or pity when they are seen as falling short or victim of a situation beyond their control.

    The balance would be restored thusly: it WOULD be right to ask what drove the woman’s anger, and hope to help her heal from whatever that was, WHILE holding her accountable for her wrong action anyway. And to do the same for a man. Up the “respect” setting (respect means accountability) for women by one notch, and dial down the compassion setting for women by one notch. Raise the compassion setting for men by one notch, and lower the accountability setting another notch, so that it’s more equal, more fair.

    It’s hard to do. I just got into an argument I did not even see coming with a female friend who “stopped short” of calling me a misogynist (i.e. said “I’ll stop short of calling your view misogynist,” which is another way of saying it’s what she thinks) when all I’d asked is if she holds women to the same standards in relationships she holds men in. As if the very question is hateful. This particular person tends to read all sorts of malevolence into any questions on gender I ever ask, and it’s hard not to conclude that this is because I am (A) male and (B) do not accept the same set of assumptions she does.

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      I lied; a part of me DID think it MIGHT turn into an argument, but I gave her the benefit of the doubt and tried very very very very hard to be completely neutral and nonconfrontational.

      She’s got some very deep-seated misandry she can’t see. I should have known better I guess. She also accused me of trying to “convert” her to some point of view. I suppose I was, since I advocate for men when I can, especially when a person often says negative things about them as a group. Sad, she’s such a good person inside in so many areas, but once the subject of men as a group come up, well, men are narcissists, men are damaged, men hate women, aye-yi-yi. So upsetting.

    • http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

      “Girlwriteswhat has written about this: some women have a tendency to use a man as their primary weapon.”

      Or, use a politician, or politicians, like Patrick Leahy and Joe Biden.

      “The War on Women” is all the talk around D.C. and elsewhere, especially in feminist circles, but “The War on Women” is really a misnomer.

      There is, however, a new front in the gender war that gender feminists have long waged. It’s called, THE WAR ON FEMINIST PIGS and I’m proud to be a sign carrying protester in the battered and abused army of thousands of MRAs who are fed up and saying, “$-END FEMINIST PORK-$”

      Let’s cut the gender feminist pigs off at the trough, where they feed and proliferate, and while we’re at it let’s kick their boot kissing lackeys out of office too.

      http://tinyurl.com/77sbg9u

      http://tinyurl.com/l7sqet

  • TheMoralGodless

    OT:

    Guys, STOP trying to control Amanda Marcotte’s (and all other “lady’s”) thoughts, opinions, and feelings through Twitter!

    https://twitter.com/AmandaMarcotte/status/226456960218853376

    How DARE we have contrary opinions to her and voice them!

    • The Real Peterman

      Those darn mansplainers, thinking they might know more about something than a woman!

      Of course, it’s women like her who get mad when a man says he wants a traditional woman as a wife, and try to change his thoughts and feelings about that personal subject. But they’re women so I guess that’s alright.

  • Rper1959

    Thank you Andy Man for sharing these painful and personal experiences with us. Yes , we must all question the double standards and hypocrisy that engulf modern society.

    The thug karate instructor you describe clearly knew little about the true philosophy of the eastern martial arts, which if taught well are a great outlet for boys natural masculine energy. Boys can learn to control their power, be confident in their abilities but most importantly, project that confidence to avoid physical conflict. I attended karate classes over a 10 year period with 2 sons and 2 nephews, and this was always the central message. The true master can end a conflict without landing a blow, the way of karate was a way of the mind, but if physicality eventuated it could be ended quickly and decisively.

  • kiwihelen

    Andyman, I keep thinking that the damn instructor should have been observing the class and spotted she was slinging blows in an uncontrolled manner. The fault lies with an instructor not paying attention.
    Like Greg says, a good instructor can deal with this shit without resorting to physical actions.

    • Malestrom

      ^ This basically, sounds like the instructor was incompetent as well as a vicious thug. He probably got into karate because to ”learn how to beat people up” or somesuch, and then it became a natural career for him since physical training does not require much intelligence.

  • Shrek6

    Thanks for the article AndyMan. I also feel for you, but applaud the mature way you handled the situation, even at such a tender age. Can’t say the same for the dickhead instructor, or the nasty bitches.

    I went through a similar situation, but I had not been attacked by a woman. I had lost a job because of a fat over entitled bitch, when I was a teenager of 17 years.

    I had to do courier runs each day for the office staff of a wool sorting company, plus I had to do my own work as well. The office receptionist was this disgusting fat thing that hated males of any age.

    One day she demanded that when on my courier run, that I go to the local shopping centre and buy her sanitary napkins for her, because she ran out. I refused and said I am not doing anything like that at all for her. I was disgusted that she had even asked. I was not rude to her nor angry. I simply refused to do what she wanted.

    Suffice to say that because I refused to buy this disgusting creature her rags, I ended up out of a job just a couple of weeks later. The reasons for my dismissal, were lack of respect for the bitch in the office and not completing my work when I should.

    I have since suffered the loss of more jobs, plus reputation in organisations, all because of the filthy attitudes of women.

    It is my experience in general terms, that whenever women are involved in any organisation that has men in it, they take over and push the men around or out the door. I have not seen men behave in this manner in general terms. Maybe I am blind and can’t see men behaving like these morons!

  • TPH

    Your Karate instructor was not an instructor, but merely a bully with Karate skills. It’s men like him that give the sport a really bad name. There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior. White Knight or not, the guy deserves to be banned from teaching Martial Arts.

    I started of in Judo as a kid and moved into Hwa Rang Do when I got older. I’ve seen women come into match-ups and intentionally break all contact ground rules and try to physically harm men and boys. For some it’s an ego trip, for others it is a real and present desire to intentionally harm others. A good instructor weeds these assholes out very quickly.

    When I was 12 I’ve even had a young 20 something woman intentionally kick me in the groin after losing a Judo match. I was wearing a cup, like most of the rest of guys at the Dojo.

    The instructor picked up the woman’s gear bag, threw it at her and told her to leave and never, ever come back.

    The instructor happened to be a middle aged Korean woman. She didn’t put up with shit from either women or men.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

    Sounds like the attitude of the vast majority of western women, 99.8%.

    They do most of their fighting by proxy this is just another example.

    These two females world have figured out the sensi was a mangina.

    They would not gave tried that on with my old sensi.

  • ActaNonVerba

    I know this isn’t really a thoughtful remark…but…. I think I’d sign up for a karate (or other similar endeavor) simply if I knew there would be women wanting to take me on.

    I don’t hate women. I hate bullies. And, alot of women are bullies……trying to control and intimidate people (how they talk, what they do, how they do what they do).

    I love dropping bullies and I don’t discriminate by sex (or the pc word ‘gender’ if you like).

    • Sting Chameleon

      The best way to deal with bullies is to become an even bigger bully yourself.

    • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

      Favorite.

  • Stu

    OT

    Get a load of this guys.

    http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8503082

    And check the comments under the article. Yep, people are getting jack of women who stamp their feet and expect their demands to be met just because they are women.

    • JGteMolder

      Where are the comments?

      • Stu

        You just keep scrolling down

        • Turbo

          Stu, she has backtracked quite quickly, under a lot of negative comments. That is a good thing, let us hope that she does not carry the flag, she should have eliminated her chances because of her sexist comments. Let us hope that Nick Green selects the best candidate, male or female, as there are great candidates from both genders. I personally think she should be sent home for those comments, a man surely would have been.

          • Stu

            Yeah, the fact that she can even come out and make comments like that just show how far we have slid down the shit slop of misandry. So half the athletes should be ruled out, no matter what, just because they are male. The Olympics should be all about honoring women…..just like everything else. And the fact that she thinks that those comments can be made, so aggressively, on mainstream, prime time national news, just goes to show what sort of company she normally keeps. Talk like that has become so acceptable and normal to her, that she can’t even see that there is anyone out there that might call her on it. So does she spend her every waking hour in her radfem dominated world or something? I reckon she must

  • gateman

    I experienced a similar dynamic, but in the workplace. I girl who seemed interested in me but I had rejected decided to get even by spreading false rumors about me and telling the boss that I wasn’t working, was a troublemaker, etc.
    Consequently over a few months I was given a stern dressing down (humiliation) on several occasions, to my complete bewilderment. It destroyed my future prospects within the company and I left shortly thereafter.
    A few months later the boss begged me to come back (I was their senior team member before leaving) as all her lies had finally been exposed by a client and other colleagues. Needless to say I refused since I had found a better paying job in the meantime.
    There’s no doubt that female violence and bullying, especially by proxy, is rampant in western society in our social situations, workplace, government and legal system.

    • white demon

      I quote: “There’s no doubt that female violence and bullying, especially by proxy, is rampant in western society in our social situations, workplace, government and legal system.”

      Only in western society? Well, I think it’s very much the same all over the world! Even in Middle Eastern countries, although it’s not that apparent!

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      I have had positive and rewarding relationships with women in the workplace my entire life, and around half of my supervisors have been female, which has never been a problem. I have a pretty casual, easygoing manner, and women seem to like talking to me as long as I stay away from political discussions.

      But the worst job in my life, bar none, was a teaching position in a department that was about 90% female. The day I walked in the door I had a female coworker begin bossing me around and when I tried to humorously deflect her bossiness she got even more furious, Within days it became obvious almost every one of my female coworkers hated me too, especially the senior trainer who was technically not a supervisor but ruled the roost because she was noted as the group “leader” and our supervisor (male) was frankly a wuss who never got involved in anything.

      I spent my six months at that job pretty much daily harassed, demeaned, humiliated. I could do nothing right. I was regularly belittled. It was devastating. In my work I was beyond reproach–in this company whenever we taught a class we got ratings from the students and my ratings were always sky-high. Every assignment I did was turned in on time. This one woman, Mindy was her name, though, once gave me an assignment and then intentionally humiliated me by ripping it to shreds even though there was nothing wrong with it–I’d done this kind of work professionally and it was top notch stuff (I can objectively evaluate my own work and readily recognize and acknowledge flaws). She tore me apart just to tear me apart, while other women in the department, especially the woman who decided she didn’t like me the day I walked in, gleefully egged it all on. I was so emotionally devastated and so conditioned to accept blame and responsibility and shame it wasn’t until some time later that I realized what had happened to me: a woman had decided not to like me, got my coworkers to see me the same way, and I was ostracized, demeaned, and humiliated at every turn from then on.

      It wasn’t until a few years later in studying male and especially female psychology and group dynamics that I realized what really happened to me: I was identified as “not to be liked” by a pack of angry females, and I was doomed from the start because when a group of women decide to “get their hate on” against an individual, it’s unbelievably vicious.

      I will reiterate that I’ve had tremendously rewarding positive work relationships with women in the past, and in jobs I’ve had since. I’ll also point out that if you watch the typical pattern of female bullying–which is of a different character than male bullying–it’s often group oriented, and involves getting men (or sometimes other women) to do their dirty work for them. Although one thing I think it’s helpful to note that this female bullying behavior can and will be applied to women who they decide should be ostracized, humiliated, or hurt too. I think if you get to know women who themselves have been bullied, you will be surprised to learn just how often it’s at the hands of other women, who play the same psychological warfare tricks: whispering campaigns, rumour spreading, name-called, ostracization, demeaning and belittling. The level of cruelty can be astounding.

      But it’s like we’re culturally indoctrinated to believe women can’t be like that. One Red Pill moment is to realize: yes, yes they do. They’re just as likely to be bullies as men are, they just usually (usually) express it differently.

      But have no doubt, they’ll do this to other women in the blink of an eye too. I think another “Red Pill” moment may be to realize not just “all women aren’t like that” but rather, women are often the victims of female bullying behavior too. And you can’t tackle the problem of bullying if you don’t recognize all the tactics used by bullies, male and female alike.

  • Tawil

    Loved this piece for its simple but powerful message. Everyone in my family are black belts and this brought back a lot of memories of training- the punitive violence dished out on males during training and the absence of similar treatment to females who had infringed the training ettiquette in a similar way to the punished males. Double standards all the way.

  • Gamerp4

    Nothing can make my heart go soft or sensitive over today’s women conditions and their misery & sufferings, I am not an advocate of murder or violence or any kind of harsh treatment to feminists or women because i believe in humanity and moral guidance as my brother Andy has said that today’s society discriminate against men and boys and with this kind of treatment this state, feminists or women for that matter wont get the loyalty and respect they so desire from Men/boys, you may persecute, murder, emotionally abuse, threaten or put them behind bars
    but you wont accomplish anything rather you women (who claim to be loyal to sisterhood and feminism) will lose the utmost honor of men, their love and romances will be washed away when your FEMINIST UTOPIA DREAM would be forced upon them.

    At last Andy I and many men here read stories of many men and how they were treated and after reading your story and reading your conclusion, I can just say this THAT WOMEN TODAY HAVE LOST THE RESPECT AND LOVE OF MEN ALTOGETHER, AND THEY WONT BE HAVING ANY IN THE FUTURE.

    • white demon

      I quote: “I can just say this THAT WOMEN TODAY HAVE LOST THE RESPECT AND LOVE OF MEN ALTOGETHER, AND THEY WONT BE HAVING ANY IN THE FUTURE.”

      Yes, that is true! And it is sad, cause it’s not the way it should be! I mean my god! There are only two genders of humans on this planet and we should be getting along with each other! Not be at war with each other!

      That said, Gamerp4, there are women, who deserve our respect! And even our chivalry for that matter. We have some of them in this website, and elsewhere in the MRM and in our personal lifes. Sadly, they are very rare, and at times hard to spot!

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

        White Demon,

        I understand your angle here, and the passion in your words is clear and I concur about the insanity of war between the sexes.

        When you say this bit, “…there are women, who deserve our respect! And even our chivalry for that matter. ” I am left cold however.

        Chivalry is the motor that feeds the gorgon machine. Pull the plug on chivalry and feminism has no disposable man army to pedestalise the mighty muff.

        Chivalry tells me to lay down a coat in a puddle and prick my thumb on a thorn on a rose stem for a lass. It tells me to ‘suck it up’ and absorb pain and deliver it in the name of a type of genome and I will never do this.

        An MRA wears chivalry like an eagle does a set of lead pantaloons.

        • kiwihelen

          Agee Dr T, don’t want any man’s chivalry. He can hold the door for me if I have my hands full, but equally I will do the same for him if his hands are full.

        • white demon

          Firstly: “I understand your angle here, and the passion in your words is clear…….”

          I take that as a compliment! Thank You!

          Secondly: “”When you say this bit, “…there are women, who deserve our respect! And even our chivalry for that matter. ” I am left cold however.”

          Sorry Dr. F, for leaving You cold like that, it’s my bad, I should have elaborated a bit.

          Let me just say this. In my day to day life, I do practice ‘mild’ forms of chivalry, like opening doors for women to pass thru, get up from chairs/seats for a women if there are no other chairs/seats around.

          I DO as a courtesy hold doors, give my chair/seat to any elderly/senior and handicapped men and any man, be him younger than me, who I feel or notice, is having trouble standing for whatever reason.

          That said, If a woman starts a fight with a man or with me for no fault of the man. I WILL never side her or go to her aid if the fight turns physical. I hold women accountable for their own (bad) actions. I have been looked down upon for doing so. To sum it up: I don’t mind been chivalrous, as long as I’m respected for doing so (my manhood respected that is)! And if a woman or man, expects me to be chivalrous with a woman, just for the fact that she IS a woman, so she must be excused for her own bad actions…….then that’s where, I’ll draw the line!

          There is a limit to everything!

          I hope that explains. If not please let me know. I really like constructive criticism!

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            White Demon,

            I understand what you are saying.

            You will not interfere as a white knight and bust up a fight and you won’t become a mangina cheering on a jerky woman just because she’s a woman. I also get how you open up doors for the handicapped and will walk a senior bloke across the road.

            You know what, I reckon those things are great, and when I see stuff like this I am reminded that it’s the small things like this that make a better community.

            I want to do a thought experiment with you to explain where I have a divergence in our thinking with something in your post here.

            Imagine you are a black person in 1900. You are watching a play and the curtain is about to rise. All seats are filled and every single person there is white except you. Then, the usher comes along with a white patron, a latecomer. The usher points to you and the white latecomer nods and heads towards you. It’s expected that you will give up your seat and you do and you are thanked sincerely but none the less it was expected of you.

            I think we are all so brainwashed we blokes are all “black folk”. We are the “Jews” and we are “coons” and the “spiks” and the “rock apes” and the “boongs” and the “slap heads” and the “wogs”. We are all the epitaphs under the sun and the epitaphs give up seats to the able bodied non-epitaphs.

            That’s just what is expected, and what is expected is never thought about differently. It’s not even thought about at all.

            I reckon you just haven’t thought about it like this and I want you to for a minute and if you can see where I am coming from with where we diverge in our thinking then please let me know, ok.

            P.S.
            I upvoted your post because I am awesome in absolutely everything known to man and beast.

        • white demon

          For some reason I can’t reply to Your last post so I’ll reply to this instead.

          Well, I must admit that at times when I’m been chivalrous, I do question my actions: I ask myself, “if ‘modern’ day women say that they can do the same thing men can do or even better than men can do it…..why should I help her? Surely, she can stand better longer…..carry more weight…..handle more pain etc etc, so why can’t a woman just stand and wait, open the door for herself or a man?”

          Unfortunately for me, chivalry was embedded in me by the women and men in my life that it seems I do it unconsciously. But, thanks to sites like AVfM, AH, SH etc etc….. my views are somewhat starting to change! I’m glad!

          I understand what your example with black man……

          I stand enlightened further!

          Its not an easy process though………

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            Mr Demon.

            Mate you’re right. It’s not easy is it?

            Quite frankly anyone that takes the red pill as we do is proof that miracles can happen.

            Places like this site are miraculous for us and have us learn more all the time.

  • Codebuster

    Good article Andy Man, providing a microcosm of the way that men do women’s bidding without even questioning (your instructor didn’t even ask for your side of the story). We can extend this to the relationship between feminism and chivalry. Feminism is chivalry. Feminism would never have gotten off the ground without the supplicating white knights lining up to do their bidding.

  • JinnBottle

    AndyMan – Very moving account, and we feel your pain, even all these years later. Your story triggered a memory I have of my sole foray into martial arts.

    In the early 90s (a bad time for men altogether; it’s gotten steadily worse since, but the early 90s standout especially for me), I was verging my 40s, recovering from drugs, and began to take getting-in-shape seriously. The martial art that captured my imagination most was kendo (Japanese swordsmanship).

    This whole business of women mixing with men in physical activities (other than the classic one), was new to an old uncle like me; nevertheless, this was the San Francisco dojo and when in Rome…

    I mentioned this women-with-men mixture one night to a couple of fellow male students. One of them responded with a story about the Boston dojo (I’m from Boston originally, and have been back here for 20 years now), wherein in the early days of introducing women to men’s dojos, one male student sparred with a woman. As in many other sports (my sister mentioned hockey in the 80s), the men, for lack of any other training orientation, went into sparring with their first female opponents…just as they would go into it with male opponents. In this case, the man, of course, was winning, when the sensai called him off and aside, and proceeded to give him a “stern lecture on etiquette”, etc.

    So it launched, in the 80s-90s: If a man started winning over a female sparring partner, he was pulled aside and lectured sternly (or worse, the kind of thing you were subjected to, Andy!) If he held back – sometimes needing to hold *way* back – and the woman “won”, it would be all over the dojo, the media, the teaching sessions – “See? Women are as capable and more capable than men in the martial arts (/sports/chess/etc, etc, etc). Gawd, they were held back for so long! No excuses!” blah blah and more blah.

    After hearing this anecdote, I reacted by mentioning the inappropriateness of women in men’s classes. The other of the two students talking with me mentioned the sole Advanced woman student in our class. “I bet she could take you,” he said.

    He didn’t get it. I bet she might have been able to, too! I was 40, fat, out of shape, etc. Before kendo class, I used to often get there early and watch a gal practicing karate kicks on a wall-mat. I bet *she* could have “taken” me, too! (She couldn’t now, tho, at 59-pushing-60, I’m in better shape than I ever was before in life.) But my point was that women’s being in men’s space like that was a lose/lose for everyone (even the woman: how can she test her true mettle in sports – or business, or occupation – on such a tilted playing field?).

    But my younger male colleagues didn’t get it. They still don’t, apparently.

  • Tawil

    OT, just wanted to remind everyone that the Dr.T radio show is due to start in less than an hour…. I didn’t see any reminders (I may have missed it).

    Now to locate the link….

    • Tawil

      Shit, I mean Dr. F !

      • Tawil

        Just spoke with Dr. F. Show cancelled. will be on again next Sunday. FYI.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

          Yeah, what he said.

          The Dr. F Show will be announced on Tuesday this week for broadcasting the next day at 8 P.M. in the evening Central American time, and that’s Thursday 11 A.M. Melbourne time and 2 P.M. New Zealand time.

          Don’t ask me about Europe as I am still trying to work out the very concept of a timezone itself.

          The delay is due to me as it was my bad. Pardon.

          Signed:
          Dr. F on a whaling vessel in the Atlantic heading to Siberia.

  • white demon

    Well, it reminds me of a saying from George Orwell’s ‘Animal Farm':

    “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others”.

    Also, I always thought that men like the instructor in this article by doing what they do get a ‘sexual high’ doing so….. Like, “oh look at me, I’m being a real man! I’m so popular among the opposite gender! Wow! I’m really impressing the girls/women here”!

    The double standards are so FUNNY!

    Personally, I feel one day or the other, that men like these are really gonna get the butt whipped by men and who knows, some women for this sought of chivalry.

    I wonder when that day would come!

  • keyster

    I was in High School just as the 60’s generation was taking it over with “social justice” initiatives – Home Ec was replaced with sex education, Civil Studies was replaced with Social Studies and so forth.

    One fine day we come out of the locker room onto the gym floor and the girls are standing there. We’re told henceforth gym class will be co-ed (a new word for us). After the usual jumping jacks and squat thrusts to the beat of Mr. Murphy’s whistle we were to play a game of volley ball.

    After no more than a few minutes Priscilla Grouer and I decided to both hit the ball at the same time and I dislocated her thumb. I was banished from gym class for one week, (I preferred the library anyway) and eventually as more girls got hurt they ceased co-ed gym class. This was ’72/’73.

    I don’t remember feeling bad about doing it. My only statement was “That’s what they fucking get for making boys and girls take gym class together!” I was not among the beloved of faculty or student body. Everyone liked Priscilla.

    My father, being an active member of the John Birch Society assigned to monitor our school district for Communist infiltration, did not help in my endeavors to become popular among the nu bleeding heart set, fresh out of Indocrination U.

    The new Social Studies teacher, Ms. Cassiday was also a girls gym teacher who was also married to Algebra Teacher Mr. Cassiday. I faired poorly that year in Social Studies and Algebra.

    Dad ran for a seat on the school board the next year; he got 23 votes not including his own. I was sentenced to obscurity among the outcasts on leper island with the likes of Eric, Dylan, PigPen and the only black kid in school. There was a girl named Donna we’d let join us sometimes, but she was crippled.

    • white demon

      Unfortunately, Shit happens!

      Your own dad! Damn! Sorry to hear about it…….

  • Jay

    Yes, it seems females and males enjoy seeing violence against males. Just look at most of the torture pornography and about 90% of it has women torturing and degrading men. It is sick and far more sick than stuff which is considered illegal such as drawings from peoples imagination (I’m sure if it was possible there would be a dream police which would make it illegal for any man to have certain fantasies about females). I would’ve thought men would like to see naked fertile females. It seems the feminist and mangina dream of making men and boys into feminised submissive manginas has become a reality. Funny how feminists carry on that pornography degrades women, when actual degrading pornography degrades men. You can be absolutely guaranteed that any Internet filtering system installed by a government would block and make illegal any porn which features women in a submissive role, but would allow and encourage the mountains of porn which features violence against men.

    Feminists are not about gender equality, but rather about violence against men, whether directly or through proxy (as numerous articles have explained the violence by proxy such as the socially accepted and institutionalised practice of prison anal rape of males, with more than 1 million instances of this happening per year in America alone). Feminists are using the government to put men in jail for trivial things, and the new domestic plan 2009 in Australia means buying a car without the consent of your partner if you are male could mean getting anally raped in prison, is yet another example of this twisted world.

    If we extrapolate forward at what is happening in the misandrist countries such as Sweden and Norway, we can see that there is every possibility that normal male-female sex (ie. penis-in-vagina) which has been the biological mechanism that allows us human beings to exist for millions of years will be considered as rape, and would only be allowed in certain circumstances. We have already seen instances in Sweden where consensual sex has resulted in men spending ten years in prison. So the future is looking very grim. Thank you Andy Man for your excellent article and highlighting violence against boys.

    • white demon

      I quote:”Feminists are using the government to put men in jail for trivial things, and the new domestic plan 2009 in Australia means buying a car without the consent of your partner if you are male could mean getting anally raped in prison, is yet another example of this twisted world.”

      Gee, and they are wondering why an increasing number of men don’t wanna get married or enter a committed relationship with a woman!

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

    Andy Man,

    This story is pretty heart wrenching.

    Thank you for telling it to us and shame on those that made it possible in the first place.

    It’s quite illuminating reading the responses you have received as there seems to be a note of commonality here. Beating bad men with fists or bending rules.

    Beautifully written piece. A joy to read.

  • Kimski

    “Maybe you felt a little sympathy for her, despite her anger”

    Nope.
    Not even close.

  • .ProleScum.

    Thanks for this Andyman.

    Damn, I feel you man. One of the many perils of early male adolescence is that you enter a Goldilocks Zone for certain women where you are Man enough to trigger the deepest misandry, yet still physically Boy enough that these women judge you a safe target for violence.

    I would have been about 12, sitting on the top deck of a bus minding my own business, when a plume of cigarette smoke blew past my ear, obviously intentionally blown that way by someone right behind me.

    This took me by surprise, as when I got on the bus just a couple of stops before nobody was sitting in that seat, and nobody had got on the top deck since.

    So, I turned round, expecting to see another kid from my school. Instead, there was an attractive but thickly built woman between 25-30 years old. She immediately brandished her cigarette at me and coolly said “Are you gonna stop fucking staring at me, or am I gonna stub this out on your face?”

    I just turned around, waited another stop and then got off at school.

    Shit like this foments a special kind of anger, precisely because it goes by without comment or intervention from those watching. As an adult, I find myself watching closely the interaction between adults and adolescent boys. Usually it is the adults who are the first to adopt a hostile posture to the boys (don’t get me wrong I know young lads can be the most incredible arseholes) and I will as an observer call the adults out on it.

  • http://www.lastlegionary.com Andy Man

    I was very interested to read all the posts here. When I submitted this, I had no idea what kind of response it would get, or even if it would get published. Thank you all.

    Dr. F says:

    “Chivalry is the motor that feeds the gorgon machine. ”

    I think that’s so cool, I’m going to comit that to memory and use it in the future. :)

    • Bombay

      Your article is like the one about being crowed off sidewalks by groups of women, we all have had experiences where women were out to get us, lied about us and then experienced a white knight intervention. This is the every day life we live when nothing is done about these aggressive women.

  • Alan Vaughn

    OT:
    Have any of you guys seen Fatrelle’s latest effort? He also made similar ‘pussified mirror sites’ for Register-Her, Bernard Chapin, MGTOW Men Going Their Own Way and Anglobitch.
    Beats me how he finds the time to all this for us…
    (He must be really pissed off to go to all that trouble)
    LOL….

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      Hey that “Meowified” mirror site is hilarious! I’d put that on the front page with a big “thank you to Dave Futrelle for all his support and encouragement!” message.

      Fact of the matter is old Dave there has found himself a lucrative hobby of spreading hate. It’s just what he does. He obviously makes decent money from his blog, and it’s possible he’s also funded by some of the thugs in the very lucrative “non-profit” industry that is dedicated to infantalizing women and demonizing men. That’s what certain “women’s rights” organizations really are you know: moneymaking machines, making their money making women feel “empowered” by telling them they’re victims and that all-powerful men are responsible for everything that irritates them. There’s a lot of money in that.

      Futrelle is just pretty obviously a little lamprey. Maybe he’s just feeding off the scraps of the sharks, maybe he’s actually being fed directly by the sharks, maybe a little of both. And what he does is so easy; demonize, mock, and bully. Like all bullies, at heart he’s a coward, but what he actually does is easy.

      If you pay him any attention at all you should view him as a source of amusement, entertainment, and inspiration. Trolling through blogs and Reddit looking for nutty comments you can pick out of context, or even that he or one of his little minions may have left, just so he can create an illusion of massive “misogyny,” it’s just so easy if you know the tricks. He’s pretty transparent once you get what he’s about. Sad, sad little man that he is.

      • Alan Vaughn

        Dean,
        Exactly right, hence my comment about it:
        Beats me how he finds the time to do all this for us…
        Somebody must be paying him somehow with ?something?, for sure!

        • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

          Oh his tip jar is I’m certain perpetually full from the people who buy his particular brand of bullshit hook line and sinker (misandry is a lucrative industry), but given how deeply he’s enmeshed in the professional feminist spaces, it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if he’s also getting some money from that particular “non-profit” industry. Maybe not, but it wouldn’t surprise me a bit. I’ve seen other professional trolls in action in other areas, and he’s got all the markings of it.

          “He sold his soul for a shot at fame, catch-phrase and wig and the jokes are lame, he’s got no style, he’s got no grace, he’s banana facile, he’s a fat waste of space.”

          Poor little man. Hahah.

          • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

            Oh and let’s not forget his sponsorship money from the ads he puts on all his posts.

            Oh yeah, have no doubt: he’s making money at this. Being a professional hater is pretty easy these days actually. The cost is your soul, but hey if that’s your thing man, whatever.

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      In fact, thinking of “ManBoobz” Futrelle made me think of this hilarious David Bowie cameo on Ricky Gervais’ classic series “Extras”:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv6mEv_rDdE

      Always we should laugh at this bullying, cowardly buffoon. He makes money infantalizing women, nut-picking, out-of-context quoting (probably some left by himself or his friends), and generally being cruel to his fellow man. The problem is, there’s no substance to his cruelty once you really look at it. He’s just a dumbed-down, shallow, silly little fat man. ;-)

      (By the way, I’m fat too, but I’m not insecure about it. LOL.)

  • Alan Vaughn

    The problem is, there’s no substance to his cruelty once you really look at it. He’s just a dumbed-down, shallow, silly little fat man.
    That’s for sure, at least he is now. However, this is what he used to advocatein an earlier incarnation

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      Completely unsurprising. There is a quote I like a lot, even though I know very little of the rest of the author’s work: “The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity” –Jacob Burkhardt

      In his ’90s work, Futrelle showed that he understood complexity and the danger of latching on to simplistic answers. Today, he’s discovered the fastest and easiest way to sell out in our current “news” media environment: sell a simplistic message of hate. Take the worst examples of those you wish to criticize, and hold them up as exemplary (it’s called “nut-picking”). A particularly pernicious form of nut-picking in the internet era is actually to anonymously troll and sock-puppet to also make your opponents look worse (dunno if Futrelle et. al. engage in that but it wouldn’t surprise me). The other cheap trick is quote-mining; people of all political causes do this. Grab a quote out of context and play it up as big as you can. It’s one of the oldest tricks in the book, and that’s because IT WORKS. And then, of course, you also do everything you can to dehumanize them; these are all ways of dehumanizing others, actually.

      And here’s the thing: IT MAKES MONEY. Look at Futrelle. Absolute denial of complexity, absolute dehumanization of men’s advocates, nut-picking, quote-mining. I see at the moment hapless Tom Martin is busy trying to argue with him, occasionally saying dumb or controversial things, and giving Futrelle just more to play up and quote out of context to make them seem even dumber, and Martin just keeps going back for more beating. Beautiful for Futrelle: makes him more money. Once again, just note: big prominent tip jar (not that there’s anything wrong with one, but the best way to pump for tips is to feed the hate of your readers so they’ll give you more money to feed their hate-addiction). And notice, EVERY post has a sponsorship ad on it. HE IS MAKING MONEY DOING THIS, and doing it in the most essentially tyrannical way: denial of complexity. Dumb down, quote-mine, nut-pick, dehumanize. I don’t know whether he makes a few hundred or a few thousand dollars a month, whether it’s a part-time moneymaking hobby or has managed to turn into a full-time job for him, but have no doubt: one of the reasons he has the time for his shameful pandering, this patronizing of women and demonizing of men who stick up for their own human rights, is the almighty $.

      Also, little-known but very real is the fact that some large powerful organizations (they can be governments, government-funded, corporate, corporate-funded, non-profit, doesn’t matter) actually pay people to do things like this, to further their cause and dehumanize their opponents, deny any complexity, gaslight, etc. Is Futrelle on the payroll of an anti-male hate group? Don’t know. Only he could answer.

      I do know it’s very obvious he’s making significant income spreading hate in the ways I described: nut-picking, quote-mining, and dehumanizing. In our internet era especially, it’s so very common. You have to sell your soul and your integrity to do it, but Futrelle is not the first, and will not be the last, to do so.

      No reason to go participating in his comments, because that’s a honey trap. I left one comment there, once, that showed him to be a fraud. Of course I was avalanched with accusations of being a troll and won’t be back. Any comment you go leave over there that in any way contradicts his central message will be savaged, mocked, and if at all possible pulled out of context and put on the front page to help him make more money. Don’t feed the beast. ;-)

      “He sold his soul for a shot at fame, catch-phrase and wig and the jokes are lame…”

      • Alan Vaughn

        Any comment you go leave over there that in any way contradicts his central message will be savaged, mocked, and if at all possible pulled out of context and put on the front page to help him make more money. Don’t feed the beast.

        Yes I know, I only discovered the meowified mirror quite by accident, then remembered seeing something on his blog a few weeks ago with cats like those on AVFM (in the feline universe) and put 2 and 2 together. I went to manboobz and as I expected: found the links to the meow mirror sites.
        I must confess though I L’dOL, at first only at the cats and the context in which they were used, but then my laughter turned to him, because this confirms that he is indeed patronizing all of his so ‘open-minded’, intelligent and fair-minded ‘equality for all humanity’ supporters. (I.e. DF knows most women love cute li’l kitty-kats, thus these depictions of them should attract their undivided attention).

        I rarely ever visit any feminist blogs and have never attempted to post a comment on any of them and never will, for the reasons you’ve just given, but also because unlike us (MRA’s): where we pretty much allow anyone a bit of flexibility at first (even hardline dissenters), they would probably not even publish the things I would like to point out to them, i.e. the TRUTH…

        And yes, I have noticed the glaring presence of adverts with all of David’s posts…
        Apparently he’s also employed by Time Magazine, so it doesn’t look like he writes an awful lot for them, if he did he probably wouldn’t have time to go creating feline themed MRM websites…
        LOL!!

      • keyster

        FYI – He doesn’t make that much money, but he’s hoping to gin himself up as sort of a “gender expert”, write a book, get air-time and maybe a contract with a cable news outfit.

        He has some past journalistic cred, but very little.

        I would recommend another career path besides being the MRA-Contrarian and critic-at-large, because all he’s ever done is popularize the fact men’s rights exists at all. Not too bright.

  • http://krazie316.com Krazie316

    Violence by Proxy eh?

  • AntZ

    Feminists have embraced violence by proxy, without reservation. In the eyes of a feminist, no punishment is too vicious, no injustice is too great, and no pain is too unbearable … as long as the victim is male.

    Thanks for telling your story.

  • Patrick Henry

    Andy,

    He might have had a black belt but he was no Master, let alone a Sensei. He had no control of his emotions and was used as a tool by a woman. Not to mention he wore you down by having you do press-ups until you exhausted yourself before he fought you; he had no honor either. You were the only one who acted with honor that day. You bested a black belt that day. You at 14, were better than him. Namaste.

    • Poester99

      +1000 YES!
      This story got me seeing red, because it was similar to a few experiences I had when I was young that also changed me.

      Namaste

  • Phil in Utah

    Even in my pre-MRA days, I would’ve sided with you. No matter what sexes the parties are, an adult beating up on a child is just wrong.

  • Spoon

    You shouldn’t spar with women. They tend to hit you in the groin by “accident.”

  • http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

    “Finally, I also wanted to communicate that men and boys have feelings—we hurt. Not just physically, but emotionally too. It seems that this needs to be said, because male suffering often goes unseen and unacknowledged. In fact, hostility toward males is normalized in the media to such an extent that males are seen as legitimate targets of aggression.”

    I’ve personally heard Marines (serving in Vietnam) tell each other, “Get though or die.” They did plenty of both.

    Youbetcha, when it comes down to the lowest common denominator, males have always been role conditioned as the disposable sex – to take slavery, abuse, violence and even death as their expected lot in life.

    Ask yourself, “Where would Great Britain, America, Germany, India, Australia, Canada, etc., etc. be today if they never had their male slave population?” Answer: Back in caves, with the little cave woman hurling sticks and stones, abusing imaginary men and children, to get them to go out and provide and make her life better, more comfortable. Shame, blame, abuse, and violence (used to promote her self interests, her priorities) have always been her driving force, no matter how much Joe Biden, Patrick Leahy and other pathologically criminal liars ludicrously say otherwise. :-/ She is woman hear her roar!

    http://tinyurl.com/3knvdft

  • http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

    It might be a man’s world, but it’s sure as hell a woman’s nest! :-/

    Ask many a man, his home is not his castle as long as little female feminist (Hitler in a skirt) is on the rampage.

  • Not buying it

    CHIVALRY! !!!

    FUCK CHIVALRY & ITS PROPONENTS.

  • http://none universe

    Credit due to those who published Andy Man’s de-souling rite of passage.

    The dirty secrets of feminism and those who utilize their unnatural female privileges exposed for the world to see. Expressing analysis after analysis and anecdote after anecdote points to an undeniable consensus in the long run. There is a problem that needs to be solved.
    Bringing attention to these matters will give consent to men to participate in coming forward with their objections to how the asylum is being run.

  • Auntie Pheminizm

    Anyone else notice how 3 “heroic” men died protecting women at that Dark Knight movie premiere massacre?

    Will NOW protest, asking for equal female sacrifices at future showings?

    Also, how come no females, in these modern times, died protecting the MEN they supposedly love?

  • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

    Awesome recount Andy Man.

    I can’t figure out which disgusts me more, manginas or typical females.

    In place of ‘don’t ever hit a female’, my son will be raised on the mantra, ‘respect your fellow man, he’s earned it.’

  • http://pinterest.com/zetapersei/male-privilege/ Perseus

    OT:
    ‘Dark Knight’ Shooting: 3 Boyfriends Die Shielding Girlfriends During Aurora Massacre (VIDEO, PHOTO)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/aurora-shooting-boyfriends-died-protecting-girlfriends_n_1695290.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular#slide=more240264

    God bless the souls of these men.

    How does that saying go? ‘They’re ain’t no feminists in a burning building.’ Guurl power. For totally.