Well, the complaint is in to two different agencies and now we play the waiting game. In the meantime, we have witnessed some very telling changes at AAC. First, they removed all email addresses for providers in their directory so they attempt to keep them from being contacted. Then they solicited help from their own members to rewrite the information on domestic violence and finally, the big one, the went underground by removing all traces of their identities and importantly removing the presence of credentials from River Smith and whatever Heidi's claims are to professional experience.

They even removed the link to River Smith's book, which has all the signs of "get me the hell off your site" written all over it.

A final success won't be known until we have heard back from the state of Ohio and the APA on actions against them. But in the meantime the message is clear. They are running scared and know that the gig is up.

I am smiling here, and want to again express my appreciation to all of you who hung in there and helped. Fraudbuster, guest, Katie Ancho. You all rock!!

I appreciate your good and kind words. We certainly don't have to agree on everything. I have never read a blog where I agreed with everything there. I expect the experience of my readers will be much the same.

Take care and again, thanks

Paul

...yeah, you're right. I "back-talked" her. I did the same in Al-Anon for nearly a decade and was told by one sponsor (a delegate to their world service conference and someone known as very kind and sweet blah blah blah) that I oughta be on medication. I don't know if it was you or someone else, on this site or the AAC, who referred to a "coda cult". It's absolutely true. No matter what someone's problem, he or she is diagnosed as a codependent. And although I believe there is a bit of that in most of us who've gotten hooked up with abusive people, it's not right for a peer to diagnose a person after reading one paragraph of a forum or hearing a "share" at a support group meeting. I'm not against peer support or the 12 steps or the codependency literature. What I am against is peers diagnosing peers, creating power and control dynamics within the group, and the sort of "going off" that Heidi did on you in the email, which also happens in some support group settings. I don't remember your last name Free. But I remember enough other details from that email -- your first name, the town, your profession -- that is enough for a person to come in and F up your life big time. Very wrong what she sent to you. Very wrong the way you were treated when your loser ex came on. I wonder why that kid "Billy" and his friend/then girlfriend/then wife were not banned? She apparently found this site on their computer and started posting too. I think the regulars thought that was "cute" though because they were younger...maybe Heidi "liked" Billy. lol

You might wonder why I still concern myself with the site having been banned a year and a half ago. Two reasons: 1) I try and keep abreast as best I can of any entity in which I was treated unfairly. That could be a store, could be a gynecologist, could be Al-Anon, and is AAC also. 2) I do get some good info from the site still.

Keep on keeping on Free.

I missed that thread, I think at that time I was wrapped up in personal issues. I read through it though, and it doesn't look like you were banned for speaking out. It looks like you were banned for "back talking" the SC. I mean, look at what the others wrote on that thread, you were mild in comparison. But you did talk back to the SC when she appeared, notice the others did not. It's an unspoken rule at AAC: never back talk the SC. If you do that, she will "cite" you for breaking the guidelines and ban you. That quick, out of the blue, no email discussion, nothing. You're just- gone. Others who violated guidelines on the same thread are fine, as long as they bowed to the SC when she appeared. I wonder what the SC meant when she stated this was not a public forum, that some people are not allowed- I always thought it WAS a public forum, and that all people were allowed.

Katie-A, is it true that whenever people click on the ads at the site, the site, or Heidi, gets money? If that's so, did she get money every time you tried to log on and wound up at google? Or guest and I at a porn site? Or, now when I try to log on I get redirected to that photography guys website. I'm curious, because if she can just redirect people to advertisement sites, and get money for that, is that even legal?

Interesting thread about this article at AAC. We're just disgruntled banned posters -is being said- which to me implies that not one of us has a valid complaint, not one of us has feelings that matter. Mind you, when we weren't banned and were posting, our feelings mattered- we were part of the AAC "family." But now we are outcasts for talking back the the goddess SC.

And that's not a cult?

Guest it's good to see you up and at 'em: more dates than an arab up a date tree? Guest that's hilarious.

Katie-A I just wish i KNEW how to play lawyer lol. The opponent is running scared now though- she's asking for a 4 month continuance. I learned how to write a motion for dismissal and am filing it tomorrow. This is quite interesting, it really is! But then it's not my neck on the block either.

FB I got your email request. Give me some time k? I have to sit back and watch things a bit. Bevdee always got called paranoid, but the paranoid one in the bunch is actually me lol. I'm not ignoring you, I just need to sit on it. (((FB)))

Paul, this has been good for me, to read what others experienced, to share, to be validated. Thank you. Thank you so much.

This is probably the thread you're looking for: http://www.allaboutcounseling.com/BBoards/BBContentv.cfm?BBId=2&ThreadID=31668&UID=1168&DateSelect=-7&GO=1

I don't know what your name was, FraudBuster, but mine was NorthEaster and out of everyone on the thread I was the one summarily banned for speaking out.

You made me blush and I am too old for that! Thanks! And to everyone else, the new article is up. Any comments you care to make are appreciated.

This fight is not over. We are just getting ready to roll, but the end is also in sight! I will not quit until I am satisfied that AAC is operating withing the law, within professional ethics and within the bounds of human decency. The abuses there have to stop.

I am wondering.

!

Kati-A this stuff you found made my skin crawl! That's HER! I remember being asked why I was "doing this" , or something like that, when I was taking on the SC on a thread and responding "because she's not God!" and posters went berserk. Oh I wish I had that, Katie-A, you just might. Boy, I bet the SC wishes she never mistreated you. You copied and saved all the stuff she made disappear! People like her seem to always make the "evidence" disappear, then call their accusers crazy. You saving threads, that's just beautiful. And smart.

I got addicted to the site, too. Being banned was actually really good for me in that sense. Dealing with the disappointment is hard Kati-A, it hurts to be rejected not just by the SC, but by so many posters at the site. Especially after a dependence formed. I can only speak for myself of course.

I agree with Kati-A FB. We don't have to be deprogrammed, just have to deal with the disappointment of realizing that what we thought was so great wasn't so great after all. And for me, the rejection, which continues to this day, even though I'm not even "there."

I know it's hard to say things FB. Just remember, "telling" is freeing, even if nobody believes you. But that's not happening. I believe you. Kati-A believes you. Guest believes you. And we were there.

The price of freedom is high and must be paid, but the "goods" are worth it. I forget where I got that, it's not original, maybe a support group, but it sure stuck with me. I try to keep it at my fingertip, but I definitely struggle with it, especially when I feel alone. ESPECIALLY when I hear "there's free, making herself out to be a victim!" I've worked so hard NOT to be a "victim", to escape that mentality, that this particular accusation throws me off my feet and actually causes me to retreat and ponder- "am I behaving like a victim?" I've actually gone back to support group because of this accusation at the site. Sometimes I need to be told "no, this is how survivors behave, not victims." I need that reinforcement.

You are naming her for what she is, and the site for what it isn't. Be proud of that FB. Takes guts, and you've got 'em.

(((FB)))

Thank you. I got addicted to the site. But, one day I woke up and did what I did knowing full well what the consequences were. I had to face reality. I have more to say but I dont want to on a public forum.

(((Katie))) thanks for understanding.

I have observed the SC to be all of the above. Now I have to complete the process of being deprogrammed.

Not saying it's a cult, but this is interesting to read. I googled groupthink and some other stuff.

If you think "site" instead of group leader, it seems weirder and weirder. :O

http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.
****************

Oh the evil bandits!!!
Just some stuff to ponder.
:~)

I felt controlled. I felt that the most intimate details of my life were handled carelessly. I felt like everything the site claimed they represented was a lie.

We deserved to be Warned that what we were about to post was being observed by countless people in cyber space. We had the right to be warned that the information that we posted could be accessed by the entire public.

What really makes me sick is the thought that Children were allowed to post on the site and were subjected to adult sexual content and were not protected if they posted about being abused.

"Funny how AAC had access to everyone and their personal info but did not allow us to know each other on a personal level. This was designed to put them in control rendering us helpless."

If you have no one to discuss your perceptions with other than on the site, and are afraid to voice doubts about it, because you have seen other people banned, then yes, in a sense it could render one helpless.

This is something I gave a lot of thought to after I made contact outside the site. After I did, I was able to talk about my impressions of the site and I was able to -
either have my perceptions confirmed or
talk about it with someone else, and get some balance. Sometimes it's good to do this - otherwise I might think I am imagining things - or being paranoid!! :~)

I wasn't. Not completely.

When I watched, I noticed the odd things I finally posted about in Weird Questions. Not being able to talk about it, I wondered if all late night posts (after 11pm) were placed by the site. Because I had no one to offer me other perspectives, after I made my doubts known to the site by posting about them, I posted to lots of those late night posters with familiar writing styles, They almost never posted back to me.

I talked to a couple of people about cult mentality, cult characteristics.

Shhh don't tell anyone
Keep this place a secret
Groupthink - everyone at the site beginning to think alike "we codies"
"those narcissists", "those sociopaths"
"US VICTIMS"

And the site was the only safe place from an unsafe world.
It was the only place "we" could go and completely be ourselves. At least that's what the site advertises. Just don't let being yourself conflict with what the site coordinator "needed to do".

That site? If it wasn't so sad, I would LMAO. But it's sad. That sets up a very unhealthy environment for wounded, vulnerable people.

I recall reading a post where SC stating that someone blew "snot", etc. all over her forum and accused another of "internet rape". First of all that is a lie, it never happened. No one ever blew "snot" EWWW all over the site or "raped" it SICK. I believe the people who she accused this of have the right to complain to the Ohio board about that.

This vocabulary of "troll garbage", "throat ramming", "blowing snot", "internet rape" is unbelievable coming from a person who boasts they have a graduate level of education. What it is, is a reflection of someone who is speaking from their own perspective of living a very dysfunctional, ugly, horrific life. The only time I have seen this language used by an adult is one who is either under the influence of drugs and alcohol, mentally ill, in need of getting their psychiatric meds adjusted or someone in a codependent relationship with a very sick individual. No matter how you look at it, this is not good.

Worse yet, this certainly could be used as evidence that the SC is suffering from a mental break down, caused by hallucinations evidenced by seeing "snot being blown on AAC", "AAC being raped", "A person ramming something down someon elses throat". Considering the fact this is not U Tube and there are no live videos there, or pictures for that matter this whole scenario would be impossible. If someone tries to hold SC accountable for the false accusations she made against people for doing things they never did she just might use the insanity defense, you know claim she was experiencing a psychotic delusion at the time. Or she knew exactly what she was doing and deliberatly in a calculating fashion used her influence to turn others against certain people as a means to her ends.

In my opinion the first place to start would be with the Ohio licensing board. A complaint can be filed over the internet. Let Ohio substantiate the complaints. If there are enough of them It will strenghten our stand.

After you get your thoughts together. Write them down. Discuss them with a fraud investigator. They will tell you if they are legitimate or not. My complaints were validated by Ohio.

Get together any evidence you have such as witnesses, copies of the threads, etc. I saw those threads where people were banned and called names in addition to being a victim myself.

Then after Ohio does their thing if these people have been found guilty of violating the professional code then get an attorney. If there are enough people, you can find a malpractice attorney in Ohio, that will take the case for free and take his payment when the case gets settled. No one will have to go to Ohio. The attorney will represent everyone. I am sure River has malpractice insurance.

If you can talk to a licensed psychologist about the trauma suffered at the hands of River and his site. I DID. I told a licensed psychologist everything.

Funny how AAC had access to everyone and their personal info but did not allow us to know each other on a personal level. This was designed to put them in control rendering us helpless.

Hi. This how I am approaching it.
1. I go to the website
2. I go to the far left column highlighted in blue and click on Laws & Rules
-There I saw CHAPTER 4732: PSYCHOLOGISTS
4732.01 Psychologist definitions

(B) "The practice of psychology" means rendering or offering to render to individuals, groups, organizations, or the public any service involving the application of psychological procedures to assessment, diagnosis, prevention, treatment, or amelioration of psychological problems, or emotional or mental disorders of individuals or groups;.....


For example, under this subsection a person can cite that they were diagnosed by the SC as being "paranoid"

Then, I found another section in the same blue highlighted area on the left hand side titled "REGULATORY COMPLIANCE & COMPLAINT GUIDELINES FOR DISCIPLNARY ACTIONS"
On page 4 I found "Guidelines for Disciplinary Actions and Corrective Orders: Aggravating and Mitigating Factors"
Aggravation: Circumstances or factors that may justify an increase in the degree of discipline to be imposed. Aggravating circumstances may include:
1) Adverse impact on the welfare and quality of life of others
*Under this someone can talk about how SC comments, insults, diagnoses, public humilation caused them to feel depressed, etc.

2) Substantial harm to the client(s) including exploitation of trust
*Under this someone can write about how the SC discussed sensitive issues about the person on a public forum, threatened them in private emails, took their money, etc.

3) High level of vulnerability of the victim
* a person can write if they have a psychiatric diagnosis, are taking psychiatric meds, are mentally disabled, have been a victim of crime, are under psychiatric care, etcl

4) Willful, reckless misconduct
*Dr. River allow SC to call people "troll garbage", "paranoid", "throat rammers", etc. on a public forum

This is a good one on page 6 there is WELFARE OF CLIENT VIOLATIONS

2)Sufficient Professional Information. A psychologist of school psychologist rendering a formal opinion or recommendation about a person shall not do so without substantial professional client information.
*A person can write about how SC called the person "troll garbage", "paranoid", "throat rammer" and banned them without SUBSTANTIAL PROFESSIONAL CLIENT INFORMATION.

(8) Termination/alternatives. A psychologist or school psychologist shall terminate a professional relationship when it is reasonable clear that the client is not benefiting from the relationship, and shall offer to help locate alternative sources of professional services or assistance if indicated
* a person who was banned can complain that they were not offered alternative sources of professional services or assistance which was indicated evidenced by the fact that SC said people were "paranoid", troll garbage, etc.

I love this one

CONFIDENTIALITY VIOLATIONS

(2) PROTECTING CONFIDNETIALITY OF CLIENTS. ............(B) of section 2317.02 of the Revised Code. The privilege is intended to protect the interest of the client by encouraging free disclosure to the licensed psychologist and by preventing such free disclosure to others.
*People can complain under this regulation how the SC broadcasted confidential info about them on the forum, such as her assessment of their problems, trolls, paranoid, throat ramming and her/his intervention to ban them. Also about the threads being available to the public, etc.

I also believe that these people may have been guilty of
AIDING ILLEGAL PRACTICE
*Heidi states she has a private counseling practise

IMPROPER FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENTS
**Heidi states site must close if victims dont pay her hosting fees.

Hopefully this will help you come up with a simple, format for a complaint. can also call and discuss it with a fraud investigator that might give an opinon.

If an unknow person signed on the SC wouldnt think twice about insulting people that have been there for a long time and pushing them aside for this new person. Very similar to my mothers tactics. My mom had no loyalites to her children and always put "the other guys" feelings first.

I do recall when the SC accused people of "internet rape"???? As in comparing the site to a human being. Then she accused people of "bullying" her?????????? This is just a reflection of all of the unresloved anger she has inside. What is really bad news is the SC uses some of the people who post as an object of her agressions. When I called the Ohio licensing board and told an investigator this stuff they said it was all "UNACCEPTABLE".

I remember Ma"s post. An unprovoked attack against a poster who needed help.

As far as the nick name things go, its out of control. But why call some out and ban them and not all???? Maybe cause it might include the SC. I have my suspicions. My favorite are the nicks who never post, never help people then sign on to give people hell. People who dont donate a dime to the site. This is perfectly fine. In these peoples defense they are probably like us people who are not going to take shit off the SC anymore. Actually the SC doesnt give a damn about people using multiple nicks she just used it as an excuse to ban certain people.

To say the least the SC has pissed a lot of people off. Using peoples personal information against them is black mail.

Sorry guys, just been busy and tired (and sleep deprived again argh) most of all. I'm just gonna say that if SC:
- redirects two of us (me and free) to Porn websites
- puts out a secret notice telling Free that she knows all about her

That tells us all we need to know about her which is: SC is nothing but a piece of two-faced crap. Oh yea - I will follow through with that report I'm making. I'll bake it nicely before I serve it.

Bevdee I did get your emails but as usual I delayed on it. I didnt get any reply from Paul, not sure, maybe he's busy too. But that means I will go ahead with the report myself after reading your feedback again.

This is from Wish I Hadn't Stayed So Long, Hayes Carll

And it's always been the same down every road I've gone
Hey I'm glad I came just wish I hadn't stayed so long.


:~)

I think a lot of you for having the courage to do what you did. I didnt understand it then, but I do now. You had a big heart and were there for me. I am the one who owes you an apology.

I'm sorry you experienced the SC's wrath. It DOES bite. What I think bit even more for me, is that people would not stand up for me, only bevdee. I stood up for many people many times, and other posters ridicule that, to this day, saying things like "free thinks that's a noble thing." Well I do! I really think that sitting back and watching an attack is just as bad as being a part of it. Heidi always watches them and is sometimes a part of them.

And yeah, there are some posters, Shaney is one of them, that posts in a brawl and that's about it. Yet I'm called troll garbage and I've been there since 99 I think, when the site was new, and reached out to rape and DV survivors as best I could. I also sought support during challenging times, and when I was banned- I shouldn't have been banned IMO, losermike should have been. I was trying to stand up to him- he should not have been invading and taking my personal space- AAC being one of those, and he successfully did so because of Heidi and posters who would not stand by me. Well how am I supposed to behave when I go there seeking support during the very beginning and raw stages of a divorce and only one poster out of all was there for me?

Emotions already raw, I swang from frantic to enraged to distant to happy to sad to devastated- emotions all over the friggin place. I'm stilled angry about that and I have a right to be.

Fraudbuster, you don't have to tell your nic, all's cool. I was just curious. I won't judge you. I fought with alot of posters over things, especially on lib side, but I never disliked people I fought with- I actually valued their opinions and wanted more. Those I disliked I ignored. If I hurt you in way FB, I'm sorry. I am truly sorry.

Kati-A: Arwen was banned. I think OMW was too as she posted her email address and disappeared. I emailed her once I think, and right after that my computer crashed and I lost it. I don't know about Survivorofabuse, (SOA), the SC won't say but she disappeared.

Guest are you still around?

why cause people kiss SC ass out of fear and to preserve their coveted site on AAC. SC knew how to maniplate the members with the abandonment card. The common thread that kept people addicted to the site was a serious attachment disorder and fear of being abandoned.

Bevdee had something that SC didnt have, an ability to attract people without asking for anything in return.

SC send off had an obvious agenda and that was to hurt Bevdee emotionally, to hurt her bad. Why? when all she had to do was send a private email telling her she was no longer welcome on the site then pushing the button to ban her. Same for Free and guest. Why the public lynching? The only conclusion I can come to is that the SC need to exhibit power and control was far more important then doing anything that would preserve a persons dignity. Instead of inspiring fear the SC could have chosen to inspire love by handling the situation in a much kinder manner.

Buster,

You don't have to tell your nick. It would be easier for me to understand what you are talking about. I've read at that site for almost six years, and I don't remember very many people being banned, and having it announced or discussed. Me, Free, G_. Kathygy, Peacesoul, Mich, Sixfootblonde, Twinks. Horsefly gets herself put on a time out ever so often for her attacks on others, but she always comes back. Probly apologises or blames it on her meds.

I think it's about lip service if you want to come back. If you apologise or publicly thank the SC for the site and all she does. If you make threads about what you have learned from the site, etc.

I dont feel safe putting my nick name out there. I got kicked off the site.

I couldnt help but notice over the years that all of a sudden out of no where the only time some people ever appear if ever is to get involved in a bar room brawl. People that offer nothing but trouble. That is perfectly acceptable.

When you make your nickname, or opt to read the discussions a visitor, you agree to these conditions.





1.All Users are asked to know & follow these guidelines:
2.Respect, Support & Feedback
3.Use Assertive Communication
4.Religion - Use Liberation Brew threads not Support Threads.
5.Absolutely, no e-mail, IM, etc, personal info exchanges on this site
6.Create only ONE nickname, ever. Create a nickname you do not use ANYWHERE else.
7.No advertising
8.Is there a problem with someone on the discussions?

Let the Site Coordinator Know | This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
**************

NO advertising, except River's new book!! :O

Hey Buster,

It's hard for me to understand this because I don't know what nick you used on the site. "Met her wrath for talking to you and that thread disappeared"

You talked to me? Do you remember which thread that was? Was it about religion? Do you mean that the SC got mad at you for talking to me on the site?

Curiouse Kati

She needed to write a paper for college but chooses to do THIS instead. These examples I'm providing illustrate how guidelines are breached. This is the support side of AAC. Us "bandits" were banned for breaching guidelines. Well what about these examples? I can't find the guidelines now, can you? They used to be posted right above the threads I thought. Anyways, there's supposed to be no name calling, support only type of thing. Or so I thought. A wanna be psychologist lollipop3 can't even respect them and a self-proclaimed counselor, Heidi, can't enforce them. What I find especially interesting about this thread (it's the Paul Elam thread, The Truth About All About Counseling) is that I'm first accused of BEING Paul Elam, and then various other people, and all this hostility is directed at ME. That's pretty weird folks!

This post, in the middle of the thread, really caught my attention. Why would a Site Coordinator permit something like this? It's not even permitted in chat rooms!

Anam Cara
28-Sep-09

Dear SC - how long are we to endure this?



lollipop3
25-Sep-09

Free, I mean andii.... Get off your freakin' soap box. You're full of shit and you and I both know it so don't presume to lecture me about what my accusations are doing to posters here. Your psychotic obsession with this site is far more detrimental in my opinion than my calling you and your cohorts out.

You can go straight to hell you lying freak. And go ahead and try to do to me what you and Shonda tried to do to Destiny. You could never be smart enough.

lollipop3
26-Sep-09

Whatever is right Free. I'm not interested in joining this non-sensicle conversation filled with these paranoid conspiricy theories. Of course that's right up your alley (along with creating drama), so feel free to carry on.

Just don't think your going to poke at me in the process.

lollipop3
26-Sep-09

"...watched for a long time....."

Of course you did. Lol

"Watched for a LONG time...."

Of course you did. Lol

As for the rest of it....'tis true what LL mentioned in the thread she started that she and I have hard a rocky past and although not enemies (at least I hope not;) I certainly would not be someone she would defend just for the sake of it.

Also, I happen to like Mich therefore would not have a problem with anyone defending her. Although I know for certain she is quite capable of defending herself.

Finally, anyone reading the interactions between you and I over the past several weeks can see quite clearly who the instigator is so enough with your poor me victim routine. Nobody's buying it.

marypoppins
27-Sep-09

Lolli wrote:

"In my opinion, it is the people that violate those guidelines so blatently that are taking away from this site....not those that are calling the deceptive posters on their lack of integrity."

Well, in MY opinion, some in the latter group seem to be violating the guidelines as well. The SC has stated that we're here to work on our own issues and keep the focus on ourselves. In addition, it's pretty obvious that some simply have grudges against others and calling them out on multiple nicknames is simply a way to put them down.

lollipop3
27-Sep-09

I was actually done posting on this thread (or at least hoped I was going to be) but then I went and checked out that link from Shonda again. I was interested to see if Guest had posted any more remarks. Instead what I found was that some low life, shit stirring , drama addict from this site decided to use the women haters site as a forum to promtote their own twisted obsessed vandetta against Destiny.

Yes, I'm sorry to say there are some fucked up, twisted people in our midsts.

Perpetrators in their own lives and perpetrators here.

I feel sorry for the people in their own lives that have to be subjected to that predatory behavior on a daily basis.

lollipop3
28-Sep-09

Yes Shaney, as I mentioned above....there are obviously some very sick individuals posting on this site.

It's such a shame really what this site has turned into. Of course there are still good people that come here that are trying to get help and support for themselves but unfortunately, it appears that it is becomming more and more difficult to do so.

I have been "reprimanded" previously for saying this but remember how great this site was just a few short years ago? How much support there was? And fun! Sometimes I go back over those threads and just can't believe how far downhill this place has gone.

lovinglife
28-Sep-09

I don't have a lot of time at the moment but hope this makes sense…

1. Enough Already and Mary Poppins both used their AAC names to post on Pauls thinger...and because of that they shouldn't be allowed to post on AAC again...per guidelines - only use your AAC posting name here. Have more thought on that but later.

Shaney
28-Sep-09

lovinglife - I'm not ignoring your question to me, I just think that if I post the link, I'm doing exactly what freetreebugsandii wants me to do --- which is direct everyone to a site where she has attempted to discredit specific people here. Typical pathetic shit ... different day. :o) When I stand back and look at her behavior, it really makes me glad my kids don't have her as a teacher. Scary thought.

Jealouse? I can't imagine. What do you mean?

Probably would have made sense if religion, politics, etc. were left out of the discussions. I didnt come there to discuss any of that. The insane part is she lays down the law but doesnt enforce it. If she does it is unfair. I am going to ask the Ohio licensing board if a licensed therapist or counselor is allowed to tell their clients they cant discuss God, higher power etc. What I am trying to do is find out if they have violated any professional codes.

Boyohboy - hot topic!!

I agree with AAC's guidelines (that are rarely observed and barely enforced) about keeping religion off support. That guideline had been established before I started posting, but there have to be constant reminders because there are some that just don't get it.

I used to get real riled up about that, but it is what it is. I think it's allowed now because there are so few left, and there probably isn't anyone to object, or give a s**t. Or the SC doesn't check enough. As she has said over and over, it is just too much for her to read ALL the threads.

I would quit a therapist that tried to pass religious judgments on me. I did once, actually. She was not listed as a minister, religious counselor, so I felt her judments and Xtian advice was inappropriate. If I wanted a Xtian counselor, I could do that easily. They will advertise as such. If I wanted Xtian feedback, I would look for a church, prayer group or Xtian discussion site.

However, I would go to anyone of any faith, as long as they could separate their personal beliefs from my therapy. If they can't? I don't even like talking to people that can't think past their indoctrination.

I'm sure Miss Free disagrees with me. :~). We always did!!

FB,

I remember a few years ago - early in 06? There was a poster that called a guy on abusive language. She responded to his post about his wife, he didn't like what she said, and he said, "screw you". She started a thread about it and lots of people jumped on a bandwagon and lynched her. She tried a few times to defend herself, then gave up. She posted to someone that she had started a thread on another site, and was banned for that. Not posting her email address, but there was a site that allowed email exchanges.

Now I see people doing that all the time at the site - POF, Facebook, posting emails and allowed to come back. It wasn't that that particular poster did anything anyone else didn't do. It was that she stood up to WD and a few others that had "history", "old energy" with her.

The official SC never responded, but Worried_Dad did, starting a thread about it. Then there were several spin off threads about abuse, is this abuse, bla bla bla. The site went wild, it flamed for a couple of weeks, and the poster that called blantant abuse was gone. It's kind of interesting to go back and read those old threads. I have some of those.

FB, do you remember the name(s) of the thread(s) where your posts were deleted?

Been looking through some threads. Shonda, mich, enough_already, andii, where did they go? Doesn't look like they are even posting anymore.

think they got banned for causing all this trouble with Destinystar, lollipop3 and Shaney?

I wonder. That's would be typical of the twists that occur there.

ShortCake vs. SiteCoordinator both have SC for an abbreviation. On Halloween the SC flew down from Cyberspace on her broom stick to threaten the poor victims with a nasty trick (closing the site down) if they didnt give her a treat (their money).

I would feel safer walking down a street in Beruit in the middle of the night then I would hanging out on AAC.

Oh this is hilarious!

From your posting above KatieAncho, chelonia says "Think of all the times you have come here for support, advice, comfort, healing, personal growth. We are a safe community to express what may have otherwise been unexpressable. Feelings, events and issues are brought here in this unique anonymous forum where we can work through them and learn that we are not alone on our path toward a healthier, happier life.

All this is possible because we are here to support each other and some of us send in donations to cover the costs of keeping this website going. Everyone, please make a donation when you can."

And RECENTLY this happened on the "about andii's nickname" thread





Destinystar
20-Sep-09

Shonda- Mich and Andii posted their names on this site. I have NEVER posted anyones name on this site. You are a liar. This stuff you are bringing up about your face book account is irrelevant. This thread is not about you. Please get the help that you need so you can stay out of situations that dont concern you.

Destinystar
20-Sep-09

Mich- You lied to the SC the last time someone got banned from here about your intentions. The other person put their name out there. And immediatly you went to face book to meet them. You knew that this poster and the SC were having problems and you chose to play the role of a two faced back stabbing liar.

Destinystar
20-Sep-09

Mich- You are such a fucking liar. You lied and told the SC that you would not be fucking with this site anymore. Right after you lied about that YOU went and looked up TreeHugs4Life, AKA Free AKA Andiis nickname on line and met her off line. I immediatly alerted the SC about this. So take your deceitful 2 faced back stabbing bull shit somewhere else. You are not fooling anyone but yourself.

Destinystar
20-Sep-09

Andii- A horses name. What a coincidence Free had a horse that died and had posted about it. You were the one who was STUPID enough to post your name on this site and met up with Mich immediatly afterwards a while back. Both of you know each other and are fucking liars who are fucking with people on this site. YOU 2 are CREEPS. Another coincidence Andii is FREE also worked with victims. Sorry but I can connect the dots and so can others. Why dont both of you take your bull shit somewhere else.

andii
20-Sep-09

Destinycreep I asked you the name of frees horse because it's going to be pretty coincidental if it's "andii".

To anybody reading this thread, I need to be done.

I have never posted my name on this site. I have never revealed any personal information on this site. Not my name, not my profession, not my child's or children's names, not even personal support I'm seeking. For the very reason that there are people like Destinystar on places like this who will stalk and harrass. Destinycreep has not found me and does not know who I am. She posts lies after lies.

The only thing i did to Destinycreep is step in when mich was seeking support as a rape victim and Destinycreep inhumanly attacked her.

For that, this wrath.

I'm done with this thread.

And Destinycreep, I'm done with you. Like I said on mich's thread, you are a coldhearted calloused bitch and if you were my friend I'd shoot myself.

Thank God you are not, and thank God you can't and will never be able to find me.

Destinystar
21-Sep-09

enough- First of all we are not confined to this site as far as posting is concerned. My X husband was in jail 3 times since I started posting on this site. Not exactly a big secret. Seemed to be the reason why I came here to post. Lets see it was MaryPoppins who questioned me about something, sorry dont have to answer to her. And you are a person who has been here for years and has suddenly decided to create a nickname and post. Get real. As far as me coming and going from this site there is no guideline that states we have to check in every so often. Talking about patterns look at yours. You claim to be posting here for years and suddenly have decided to sign in now. By the way what is your real nickname?

Destinystar
21-Sep-09

enough- Since you admit to constantly being present on this site what is your real nick name?

Destinystar
21-Sep-09

Enough- Lets see you call Andii out for violating the guidelines and dont approve of my posts. Since we are here to talk about our own issues what are yours? Seems one of them would be coming up with mulitple nicks such as Enough_already! and make like you are above us all when you are here to stir the pot. In Andiis defense if it is who you say it is she probably cant sign on under her original nick name cause she was banned. What is your excuse?

Destinystar
21-Sep-09

Enough- You accused Andii of being Free in such a definate manner that it makes me think you know her or someone else that posts here off line. After all Mich admitted to having a few friends off line from this site. How can you minimize my post about Andiis nick name to drama when you came on here and as plain as day confirmed my belief. You validated my key points on one hand then condemn Andii and I on another. The Danger here are people like you that get off on throwing the proverbial gasoline on the fire. Now your making like your some victim of an issue that Andii and I are having.

I hope you get the help that you need cause you dont sound like your all there.

Destinystar
21-Sep-09

Enough- You behave like a person that has been banned from this site in the past. That is why you compare me to being worse than a person who gets banned then comes back under a different nick name. You seem to know alot about people who have been banned from posting, what they do and like them you just lurk here cause you are stuck and have no where else to go. I gues if I got banned that would make you feel better to bring me down to your level. What bothers me is when people get banned they just get IP blockers, or lurk on this site for years then suddenly get a screen name and pretend to have a reason to post. "

Now isn't this just a super safe site? Makes one feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I'm trying to find the post from lollipop3 where she calls me a fucking freak. This coming from lollipop3- who is supposedly going to be a psycholigist, a counselor! She had a paper do for a college class and couldn't get herself away from the drama and need to verbally go ballistic on "free", who hasn't posted in what now- 6 months plus?!!

AND "FREE" IS THE ONE WHO NEEDS COUNSELING ACCORDING TO THIS SOON GONNA BE PSYCHOLOGIST!

ROFL, I mean really ROFL!

It's after midnight and the haints are still at the site!!!

I would love to know what happened to Dr Irene. I read on another site that her Catbox forum had a huge meltdown and she was turned in to her licensing board for abusing the members of her forum. I tried to join the forum and it is closed to new members. Many threads have been deleted or are locked.

>:(

FB,

yeah, you oughta search the AAC (support side) for -

contributions
donations
site will close



You can see how many years this has been going on. It's bizarre.

They're short $5. Someone feels so desperate today, s/he has bumped up three threads. Two on Support and one was posted on Liberation side.
"AAC needs funding TODAY. We need to make Octobers Goal."

Crazy.

I wonder if the site will go down at midnight on Halloween? Bwahahahaha.

AAC relies on funding from us to continue- without donations, this site may close

ShortCake
29-Oct-09

Hello Everyone, I just saw we need to reach a goal this month to keep our site going. We only have a few days left to reach it.

I am going to donate $5 today. I wish hit could be more.

Enjoy your day. Shortcake.


ShortCake
29-Oct-09

I just added $5 to the donation list. It will take a few hours to post, but I wanted to let everyone know $5 is coming.

We still need $15 more in donations before the end of month.

Shortcake.


ShortCake
30-Oct-09


bump... only today and tomorrow left.



ShortCake
30-Oct-09


chelonia mydas
30-Oct-09


Hi all of the AAC family, We need to send in funding in order to keep this site going.

Think of all the times you have come here for support, advice, comfort, healing, personal growth. We are a safe community to express what may have otherwise been unexpressable. Feelings, events and issues are brought here in this unique anonymous forum where we can work through them and learn that we are not alone on our path toward a healthier, happier life.

All this is possible because we are here to support each other and some of us send in donations to cover the costs of keeping this website going. Everyone, please make a donation when you can.

Thank you to those that have donated.

To check on funding status, click on the words "donations appreciated" (it will be in the top right corner of the screen once you have logged in and are viewing the list of threads)

To send in a donation you can do one of the following...

send an e-mail to the SC requesting the address to mail the donation. You can send, check, money order, cash via postal service.

or you can pay with pay pal by clicking the link from the donations page

It takes $45 a month to keep this site going. I estimate about 100 of us post here and countless more benefit from this site just by reading. I know many of us don't have a bunch of $$ but even a little will help. If you can, please make a donation.

I try to put in $5 a month... which means that each month I give up a Starbucks coffeebreak. Which considering how much this site has helped me, isn't too much to ask.

It takes $540 a year to provide this service to countless people. Any additional funds are applied to the following month/year... so the more we send in, the longer AAC stays in operation without having to send out a thread requesting funding :)

We could cover this yearly expense if...

10 of us give $54 a year

or

20 of us give $27 a year

or

30 of us give $18 a year

or

40 of us give $13.50 a year

or

50 of us give $10.80 a year

or

60 of us give $9 a year

or

75 of us give $7.20 a year

or

100 of us give $5.40 a year

Now if an entire year is too much, lets do the same break down for the $45 monthly expense

We could cover an entire month if...

10 of us give $4.5 a month or

20 of us give $2.25 a month

or

30 of us give $1.50 a month

or

50 of us give $0.90 a month

or

75 of us give $0.60 a month

or

100 of us give $0.45 a month

so you can see how a little will add up to a lot...

Everyone please send in your support to keep this wonderful resource going. Even if it is just the change you find in the sofa cushions... it all will help.

I just sent in my $5


ShortCake
30-Oct-09

chelonia mydas,

You pointed out some great ways to look at the costs of this site. I myself can donate more often and when I think about cutting out a coffee or packing my lunch one day a month for a simple $5 donation, its silly to not make that small cut back.

Thank you so much for your post and donation.

This site helps so many and I have had countless guidance and support.

Shortcake.

bblue
31-Oct-09

By snail mail but my $10 is coming - $5 for this month and $5 for the past.

Free, what SC did to you by putting in that secret notice too -- this too should be reported and included in whatever Paul is doing. This is shocking to say the least.

Bevdee, here she could just be making it sound "royal":

>> Our apologies for the loss, it's one of the unspoken risks here. Databases can lose information.
SC


Like the little companies with a voicemail "we apologize for the inconvenience", when its just one little guy who owns the company. heh.

>> The Liberation Brew threads (formerly called food for though, etc threads) will start to have some professional thought provoking cultural, political, etc material beginning spring/summer 2004. Dr. C. River Smith (co-founder of allaboutcounseling) will be hosting discussions up on the Liberation Brew threads.

0oo. Yea maybe WD = River smith then, who knows.

I dont know why WD wasnt banned yea. I think it was also because I'd been doing it too often while he did his porn thing and then he didnt do much else. But yes SC was manipulated. She made a decision that showed she was weak. Tez has a picture of him on the site somewhere with a poem that was submitted. He's old family, the "old wise man" and she finds his name comfortable. Its plain familiarity. If she was a LITTLE smart, she would have made a smarter decision which was - to do nothing. It wasnt like I was pointing a gun on Tez or something. Whenever we make a decision in a chaotic disturbed "argh" state of mind, its always wrong. Thats what she did.

Free - please tell Paul about this secret notice SC gave you, or do you want me to do that. I can if you like.

G_. Dude.

I want to talk about your being banned.

It bugged me that you were banned for "being disruptive", after all I had seen from WD in the porn discussions. I KNOW that several people complained in '06. I complained in '07.

Nothing was ever done about it. He continued to post with the same tactics, and the SC excused his behaviour, defended his right to do so in the emails she sent me. "cold &calculating arguments & hurting feelings."? That's just wack.

Since she didn't do it with him, it was wrong to ban you for the reasons that she did, even if other people were complaining. I don't understand the favoritism that she shows to certain posters.

"I’m here now, because there were three notifications in email that Tez was leaving & it was due to the continued throat ramming of guest_guest… I was notified a few months ago of the same, and I showed up. I posted. I talked directly to guest_guest, right here. And in email. And again few times recently. And a few times, in the past. It’s gotten old. In my opinion, GG finally needed to go. He’s not my status quo. Definitely not status quo on the support side. Has been borderline for years on liberation brew side."

I don't understand why she succumbed to Tez's public ultimatum, and why she admitted it in that post. Why she banned G_Dude, but not W_D for his continued throat ramming on those porn discussions, unless it's because no one gave an ultimatum.

Wack?

This is from an old thread -

Thread Title: PLEASE READ - Regarding loss of content here - Site Coordinator

site coordinator
30-Jun-04

Hello again,
It's safe to post, really!
If you increase your "time-frame" of viewing, you'll see threads, it'll just be like going back in time to Sunday morning.
Our apologies for the loss, it's one of the unspoken risks here. Databases can lose information.
SC

Hey

I thought it was an email. So - when you logged in to the site - you were redirected to that letter. Then after that - porn. Seems the SC knows a little more about computers and shit than she wants anyone to know.

It may be the status quo for that site, or it may be accepted to occasionally talk to each other that way, but it is wrong. It is wrong for anyone to talk to another person that way. It's not like you killed her husband or anything. You stated what you knew, called her on her behaviour and would not buckle down and say, "Yes, SC, I wouldn't know what to without this site, I'm not worthy"

When I read it, I was astonished that the names, the belittling and the threat was there. I thought (hoped) that the reason the posters at the site did not stand up and say, "this is bogus, where is the anonymity you preach about?", because they were afraid the same might happen to them. She was on a rampage. The site died, though. It's gasping now.

I still wonder what she so badly needs to do?

KatiBevAnchoDee

I guess I hadn't actually let it go afterall. No reflection on you.

Peace, Love, Growth, & Understanding?

Which of those 4 was SC trying to wish for me when she redirected me to that porn site? I dont know.

Ok I get it, it was "Growth". Ahhh, I should have known. Thank you SC.

That definitely was SC. This too could be used in the legal proceedings as exposing personal information - assuming free didnt post it anytime previously on the site publicly.

I've sent my statement to Paul now.

Hi guest- yes I'm here! You are too funny at times. I'm thinking and contemplating. See guest, I've been through a little bit, and these kinds of things can become consuming. I've filed complaints about the psychological evaluator who took 750 bucks each from my ex and myself. This guy spent an hour with our kids and myself during which he was interrupted continuously by phone calls, which he answered. This psychologist never contacted any of the contacts I had listed, including the marriage counselor the ex and I had seen. The marriage counselor who knew my ex. This psychological evaluator called my ex on the phone because my ex didn't want to drive an hour to see him. Then he wrote his report stating that my ex posed no threat to me or the kids. As a result visitation continued, and the first time he got them, he took off. Then he violated his restraining order, not once, but twice. I was selling a car I had parked int he front yard, this guy comes to look at it, pops the hood, and says "hey, your fuel injectors have been smashed! What happened?" "Good thing you didn't start the engine, this thing is a bomb." And I had three kids I hauled around with me guest, three little ones.

I filed a complaint against the judge who talked to me like I was a piece of trash. I didn't have the money for an attorney on a motion my ex had filed, and I told the judge what was going on and that we needed help. He told me I needed a doctor. I was the one who needed help. My ex spouted "parental alienation sydrome!" and the judge didn't even bat an ey- just bought it. After that, I started getting bullets with my name carved in them, ultimatums in the form of "do what I want or we'll go back to that judge, if you happen to be alive"

I filed a complaint on a police officer for failing to take a report during a time when my ex took off with the kids. My ex did that a number of times. The officer was a friend of his.

I complained to my divorce attorney the first time my ex sent me bullets with my name on them, she sent his attorney a letter stating she would pursue a restraining order if he did that again. Then he sent me a child support check with the words "the rapist" in the memo.

I filed a complaint against the sheriff's department for refusing to take a report when my ex violated his restraining order.

I've filed many complaints guest. Nothing ever happened when I filed a complaint.

Then my ex filed yet another motion- they are usually for increased visitation and lowered child support. The more the visitation, the less child support is. He files annually, the max allowed by law. I retained an attorney. I told the attorney everything. The night before the hearing, I got bullets with my name carved into them in the mailbox. Was the fourth time I believe this had happened. I had a box where I kept things, along with a will and all important documents that would be needed int he event of my death. In them, I put many things, these complaints included, along with notes from my ex, the bullets, the letter from my attorney, restraining orders, etc. I knew he'd kill me eventually, it was escalating, and I wasn't going to let my children be raised by the man who killed their mother. It was this attorney, guest, who called me the night before the hearing on this motion, when I got the fourth set of bullets, who went berserk.

And he got action. He filed numerous complaints and people listened. he field against our city's prosecutor for failure to prosecute, got the case moved to another city, it was this attorney who made people listen guest.

Not me.

My complaints fell on deaf ears. And i spent alot of energy filing those. Alot of time. I'm a nobody in this realm.

That's how I feel. Because that's what I've experienced. I do not believe my complaint can make a difference.

(((guest)))

Hi Bevdee, good for you for standing up to that bowling lady yea! Interestingly I went bowling too with that girl here last weekend.

Free, are you there? I will write to Paul about the detail of what happened. I forgot the date all this happened, I think it was in the middle of april.

Paul, sorry I missed that post of yours which Kati quoted. I will send you an email soon about that. You're completely right, if Heidi is licensed, her site extends her services or whatever it is and so definitely, its serious - good point. I'll write everything I can remember and provide as much detail as possible. Thank you for doing all this and coordinating the effort. With the "real" identity you have, you'll have a greater impact than if we anonymous people did something.

FraudBuster: would be nice if we could know your actual username on AAC, lol, but ok - if you dont want to its ok. I was just curious. Yea I'll write to Paul. I missed his post.

Thank you for your response. I am on your side. I will be careful not to direct anymore posts to you.

I went to the allabout us page on the Allaboutcounseling.com home page and saw
First, River with his pic stating he was responsible for the psych. part of the site with a link that lead to his resume with his license number in the state of Ohio for being a licensed psychologist. The Ohio licensing agency verified his license and place of employment.

Second, Heidi's name and pic with all of her education was listed as well as a claim she had experience "counseling". According to Ohio licensing she does not hold a license in psychology, school psychology, marrige, family therapy, nursing, etc.


I dont think someone can counsel people professionally or hold themself out to be a counselor without a license in Ohio.

If Heidi is a licensed counselor of some sort you have a legitimate basis for a complaint because she is behaving in what I believe would fall under "unprofessional conduct". If she isnt than you have a legitmate basis for a complaint based on the fact that she stated on her web site she was one and is practicing without a license.

Besides, anyone can file a complaint with the licensing board in Ohio and let them decide if the complaint has merit.

You are absolutly right for standing up for yourself and joining Paul with this intervention.

Naw G_,

it's not additional evidence, it's just more weird questions. There are several that say they are nurses. Several teachers. Some psychologists. So- it's just a WQ, since marine biologists aren't a dime a dozen like the other professions I listed. Still, a marine biologist that loves penguins and rallies the site for donations... it makes me wonder.

You know, the recent thread that WD had about his chatty camlady disappeared. A few weeks ago, the site was glitchy, and MsG posted that she could not post on any thread but that one. She posted something about hackers from the site playing games. Right after that, the whole thread vanished. Poof. No one even asked where it went, and it's not like there were tons of thread on Libs. I suppose no one dared after the lessons SC taught the site in April.

Dude, I'm glad you are feeling better. You sound great, and I'm glad to hear that you are turbo dating. Get out there!! Get fresh air, meet people. Get used to talking to women, so you can pick and choose who is going to be right for you. Bust a CandyY move!!

:~)

Did you have an opportunity to visit Ohio's licensing web site for psychologists so you can see for yourself how serious this matter that you and the others are describing is? You can email Paul about putting the facts in writting. It will be a help to him. Writting a complaint is an appropriate intervention. There is a way to file an official complaint on the Ohio.gov website. If you email Paul he can give you the exact link.

I read your post. You sound like an intelligent person. Could you please visit the web site for the Ohio licensing board and tell Paul if Heidi, AAC, River, SC, etc. are guilty of violating the guidelines they set out for disciplinary actions? On the home page on the left in dark blue you will see something titled "Guidelines for Disciplinary Actions". That area should prove to be a great resource to assist in your decision making process. There is alos an area on the left in the dark blue area that is titled "Regulatory Compliance & Complaints" anyone can file a complaint there on line.

I belive that if everyone unites the outcome will be successful. That is awesome of you to offer a hand to Paul.

Wow! KatieAncho, I'm amazed that you kept all this! I kind of wish I had copied and saved some things. I would be surprised if Heidi was a psychologist/therapist/counselor. I've never had a therapist "lose it" with me, and they've always been able to handle anger, never taking it personally. I thought that posting on this site would help me to work through some anger but posting only created confusion in that department. I've never been threatened by a counselor either, and Heidi definitely did that albeit through implication. I wish I had the note from her that appeared once when I tried to log on. All my personal information, stating that if I continue to "mess" with her career then she will mess with mine. I was flabbergasted. I mean really, I'd survived three plus years of felony stalking that culminated in a jury trial and conviction and I'm expected to be intimidated by somebody who says they will "mess" with my career? Jeepers Heidi, if you want to scare me mail me the receipt for a high powered scope for your .306 and then some bullets with my name carved in them. Butcher my pets and leave them on the lawn, douse my yard with gasoline, smash the fuel injectors in my car. Tap my phone, access my bank accounts and answering machine, steal and forward my mail to yourself, hack into my computer. Take off with my kids, photograph me in my daily life and send me the pictures, have 11 red roses delivered to my house and leave the black dead one on my doorstep with a crucifix. Her threats didn't scare me, they pissed me off! I and everybody else posting had been assured anonymity in a "safe" forum and that was/is a lie. Heidi is a liar. She knew my address, where I worked, my ex husbands name, current husbands name, name and ages of my children, where my parents lived, WHICH IS OUT OF STATE, (my PARENTS!) had information about the trial, etc. etc. And she threw that in my face. I felt a twinge of dejavu re being stalked and boy that just brought out the worst in me. I am still angry at being stalked and the legal system's bureaucratic response that caused me to have to deal with the stalking's escalation for 3 plus years. I had an urge to buy a torpedo from an Army Surplus store and mail it to Heidi in lieu of a donation. No kidding. But I don't know her, and if she's anything like "stalker ex," she'd turn that around in a heartbeat.

At some point, I found I had to let it go. This is true with many things ya know? The anger can be consuming.

So yes, I have mixed feelings about AAC and Heidi. The people there like the site, they have found a connection with other people, and they will be sad to see it go. A kind of dependency develops I think. Cyber friendships. Cyber bonds. The site is not all bad. I really believe that few things are. I'm angry at Heidi, but it's hard for me to distinguish the anger I feel towards her and the anger resulting from being stalked. At some point, they blended. I'm unsure what to do about that, if anything.

Bevdee was the only one who stood up for me when SC was firing. Not even WD stepped in, and that was just plain wussy. I always stepped in for WD. I had a soft spot for him, as he is a survivor of domestic violence and his wife took off with his son. He endured a great deal but doesn't seem stronger for it and that confuses me. Tez made an ultimatum to the SC regarding guest and nobody stepped in on that either. SC succumbed to that ultimatum and that confuses me. It just seems nobody will confront the SC and I find that perplexing. The site isn't her "baby," she is the co-author. She had friends who helped her, friends who posted in the beginning, it was a multi person creation. She is not the sole SC. She never e-mailed me about my behavior, and didn't respond when I emailed her. She always posted "post about yourself" and I did just that- I would say whatever was on my mind and await responses- that's what happens in group therapy. But posters at this site take things very personally, and so does Heidi. Had I understood that, I may have posted differently, I'm not sure.

I find myself wondering why more people have not come forward here. I'm certain they are reading. As is well known, I've been stalked and that thank God, has been stopped. But now he stalks through the courts. Many people fear civil lawsuits- but they are no big deal. You just respond by filing what's called a General Denial. The form for doing so can be found at the court website. No need for even a paralegal. If you choose, you can also file an Answer, and list affirmative defenses. These are civil code procedures that would cause the case to be thrown out, such as statute of limitations. They can all be found by googling. If you are sued, most likely that person wants a default judgment, which will occur if you don't file a response. File a response and the charges must be proven and that is all on the moving party. All of it. You don't have to prove you are innocent, the moving party must prove guilt and malicious intent, along with damages resulting from that guilt and malicious intent. Speak only what you believe to be the truth about Heidi and AAC, and she can't hurt you. Slander and libel are lies with malicious intent that result in provable monetary damages.

Heidi is not truthful. The site is not anonymous, she knows everything about you that she desires to know. And it's only safe as long as you don't piss her off.

Paul, I've read through your site. At first I thought it was going to be another "how can I legally screw with that f-ing mother of my children" site, but I see it is not. AAC does show bias and hasn't even responded to a fair request to update statistics. This does not help women trying to escape dv, or their kids. Men who perpetrate these crimes already hate women, last thing a woman needs in this situation is to have good men start despising women as well. And I feel that they are.

I really don't have the time or the energy to fight these battles with the fortitude necessary to be successful, but you clearly do. You have my email address Paul. If there is something you need from me, you are welcome to contact me anytime.

I have taken the time to carefully review everything you have posted. I believe that this is a serious matter. To begin with on the AAC web page under the "all about us" the first person's name I see picture and all claiming responsibility for the psychological end of the site is "River" with a valid Ohio psychology license number listed. The second person is "Heidi" who states she is involved in "counseling". In my opinion the site is working under his supervision and license.

You seem to be an educated, and articulate person. Could you please go to psychology.ohio.gov web site? On the home page please look to the left and you will see a dark blue column with:

-Laws & Rules
-Regulatory Compliance & Complaints
-Guidelines for Disciplinary Actions

Please read this information carefully and cite in writting any regulation that you believe AAC, the psychologist "River" and the counselor (who I found no license under her name) "Heidi" has violated. This should bring clarity to your situation.

Generally speaking you have described A site, who's co-author a licensed psychologist appears to possibly have violated a number of ethical, and professional guidelines that he could be disciplined for. If "Heidi" is falsely stating she is a counselor and is in fact not she could be held liable as well.

From the testimonials that people have written in regard to AAC it appears that this site has caused harm and continues to cause harm from a professional stand point.

Keep up the hard work. You are headed in the right direction. You have the power to reject AAC the SC, in a way that will get everyones attention.

Hey y'all

Here's the weird part. For all that gihugic tantrum sc had about us leaving, I wasn't blocked from the site. I thought, oh she must be so busy deleting deleting deleting all the threads she went off in and the one that I made to Free, or explaining her outburst to the other site admin, but there were posts by the SC in a few other threads about doing a big housecleaning.

From SC on the Liberation side

"site coordinator
13-May-09

Hi everyone,

I felt a need to take the cleaning here to another level for the well being of site visitors and the usefulness of the site. If I feel the need to do more, even a lot more, I will... I apologize if it causes confusion but it is necessary.

Peace, SC"
*************

Hilariously, oxymoronically, in that (housecleaning) thread, Destiny attacked Marypoppins (For the millionth time) and they went after it (for the millionth time), like they have for the past 2-3 years, flinging the f-words and diagnoses around. Catfight. Lots of negativity there!! Nothing against them, but still....those two go after each other more than G_ and Tez did- just sayin.. lip service goes a long way?

Even more funny than that was that since the big banning, I had been able to log in, and posted occasionally until mid-June. Apparently Tree wasn't blocked either, because she and I started posting to each other, and then one day G_dude posted to us. It was the next morning that I was redirected to Google. That was odd, but nothing was forthcoming from the site at that point. SC had gone low again. But- G_dude had as much right to post as Tree and I did. If we were all banned- right?

We were told to leave, but no measures taken to insure that. Why? That's why I posted, LMAO each time I did it. SC is so lazy about that site. I don't think it's a boat skimming over the AASEA, I think it's a helium balloon.

And talk about beating a dead horse. Twinks gets such a bad rap!! and she's gone!! The site really needs to quit obsessing about her. She hasn't posted since 06, when she was banned. Twinks was from England, and her writing even had a British accent. She was succinct and biting, and had a cool sense of humor. After she was blocked from the site, she posted a couple of times as chickietwinks, and another name I can't remember, but stopped a little after that. That's a no-brainer. I think the site really hates her, obsesses about her, because she wouldn't back down to SC and WD, and because she refused to leave until all her posts were deleted.

She made work for the site.
It took the site down for a couple of days.
Think about it.

Really odd, was that in one of the other deleted threads, Isis posted that she could tell from the IP addy of one of the posts that it was Twinks. Someone asked her how she could tell that, and she posted back that it was from her Blackberry. WTF? If a poster who is not part of the site admin, can access IP addys, that's not very safe, is it?

:~o

Hey,

The ruckus started a little ways down.... I did not post on this thread until I was "diagnosed" publicly by SC.

Thread Title: Tez and guest_guest and Site Coordinator please..from omw

on my way
13-Apr-09

Tez, guest_guest and SC,

I am going to state frankly and honestly what I believe to be the problem and when I saw it take place, then will leave it to all.

Tez and guest_guest have been conversing on AAC for years. You both are at fault, and there are always two sides to every story. I do not say this in an accusatory way, but I saw derision begin when we started talking about belief systems. You both supported each other throughout the "Christian bashing threads". However, when the Dalai Lama and the Buddhist threads came into being discussed, to me, all of sudden guest_guest came up short in stature according to Tez. I commented on it and so did a few other posters in guest_guest's defense. I didn't understand the point of it, however I will try not to be judgemental perhaps Tez was trying to get a point across. I saw it as being mean and told Tez so. I interpreeted it as guest_guest "never being able to comprehend or measure up to the practices of the Buddhist faith"....which aggravated me, but whatever. I am not taking up for guest_guest, he has been very rude to Tez and has followed him as Tez has said and harrassed him. However, to me, it seemed to have begun with the previous conversations they had between them which were, I thought, quite demeaning....guest_guest just "couldn't get it right no matter how hard he tried"..

Since then, he has followed guest_guest around and harassed him, most likely out of revenge and anger trying to make him look stupid because Tez made him look stupid. So you both are at fault as far as I can see.

From my conversations with guest_guest in regard to his relationship with his mother...she was a "bitch" to him he says, and he could never do anything right. This seems to be very much alive for you today guest_guest. So my take is that you don't want to be treated that way any longer, or you are extremely sensitive to criticism and will argue and defend rather than listen and adapt.

Two personalities here with different backgrounds....different obstacles.

IF you know something about another, you have to be careful about what you say, unless you are willing to go the extra mile to work it out.

I see hurt and anger. I don't think either of you need to leave. A huge apology may be in order though from both of you.

Don't mean to sound like a mother....but I raised three boys, however getting them to apologize was always like pulling teeth.

I love you both and would hate to see either of you leave.

Just thought I would try to get you all to reconcile your differences.

on my way
13-Apr-09

whoops, meant to say in the third pp that "guest followed Tez and harrassed," not the other way around as I mistakenly stated above.

on my way
13-Apr-09

yep, not patting yself on the back, but I just now read guest_guest response to my question on the "Tez farewell" thread where I said: "You two used to be able to converse, tell me, what has changed?"

It is the 'mother, parental thing"... guest_guest has a problem with being told he is an ideot. I know we are not professional counselors but many of us are dedicated to heling other people....and where is compassion in this instance?

guest_guest
13-Apr-09

hi OM , SC has made up her mind. Its her site and she asked me to leave so there's no room for any reconciliation. I have said everything I wanted to say. If SC wants me to leave, I will. I cant argue with her on it. All I can do is leave some last words and then leave.

Tez threw the tantrum and made the threat to leave and it worked. If he hadnt done that, SC wouldnt ask me to leave. Dont worry about Tez. He'll be back. He wanted me to leave.
I have no regrets at all for anything I've said here. I have personal regrets on real life on other stuff but on this site I have done nothing to make an apology.

I was abused ruthlessly and given vicious racist attacks without SC saying a word to Tez about it. Why? She's afraid to. He's old, more than sixty and he's a dominating aggressive "know-all" personality.

Dont worry about me, I'm fine. I have nothing to regret. I dont bow down to falsehood and I'm not Mr. Nice guy. I say it like it is and it upset Tez to the point he made the threat to leave the site.

truthBtold
13-Apr-09

omw,

I am glad that you posted this.

Yes, I believe that both are at fault here as well.

Though I must say, alot of times the bantering between the two does get really, really old and pointless most times........still is this not still a free country?

I agree with what you said: "However, when the Dalai Lama and the Buddist threads came into being discussed, to me, all of a sudden guest_guest came up short in stature according to Tez."

I have felt that way on more than one occassion that Tez can be quite smug and condescending - a "pseudo-type of humilty", if you will as compared to the genuine artice...which is why I don't even bother with the Dalai Lama thread any longer.
But, on the same token, g_g can get downright disrespectful as well - just in a more, shall we say, unsophisticated manner.

Wouldn't it be great if both could maybe - for 30 seconds... back down on their positioning just long enough to find the similarities among each other rather than always concentrating on the differences?

As a matter of fact, how about the two of you taking that on as a challenge right here and right now?

Tez & guest-guest: I challenge the BOTH of you to look deep in your hearts and find at least 3 things that you could positively and honestly say about the other person..........
How 'bout it?

This could be an opportunity for some great healing on both parts - you think? maybe?

guest_guest
13-Apr-09

hi TbT

>> I have felt that way on more than one occassion that Tez can be quite smug and condescending - a "pseudo-type of humilty", if you will as compared to the genuine artice

Try explaining that to the Site Coordinator.

truthBtold
13-Apr-09

g_g,

So - what say you?

Are you gonna take the first step in my challenge to the both of you????????????

truthBtold
13-Apr-09

Tez,

Might you be the one to take the first step???????

Again, I reiterate - this could quite possibly be a grand step/opportunity for the BOTH OF YOU!!!!!

on my way
13-Apr-09

Well, I have to agree, and it all depends on how one looks at this. Attitude can be everything in many life scenarios. This could have a positive ending if both are willing to take a look at themselves and not blame the other. We are all responsible for ourselves and our actions, reactions and responses, etc.

Bitsy
13-Apr-09

Granted I have had very little interaction with guest guest and cannot think of any I have had with Tez.

With GG I found him to be negative and was able to throw everything back on me. We are all here for healing and growth, not to have to deal with the same type garbage that we are dealing with in the "real world".

GG I am not happy to see you go but I do think you need to reflect on why you created such strong feelings in others. Sometimes you have to have a sign that says you are looking at the problem and you have to go to a mirror with that sign.

truthBtold
13-Apr-09

omy,

Yeah, it ain't easy chocking/gagging on a piece of good ole piece of humble pie at 'tal.

But you know what?

The times that I have hunkered down done it in the past - and swallowed my own pride temporarily.... has produced some amazing and surprisingly positive results in ways that I could have never, ever imagined in my wildest dreams!!!!

Oddly enough, it resulted in my finally feeling really grounded and perfectly.....imperfect....(if you will....)

I really don't think that there is any other substitute, as far as this goes.

I KNOW first-hand how healing this can be!!!! - which is why I have made the challenge.

See, I believe that BOTH guest_guest AND Tez (as well as the rest of us here, myself included...) truly deserve a sense of peace and happiness - (otherwise - we just wouldn't BE HERE in the first place....you know?) and I feel deep down that if they can both somehow see fit to reconcile their differences - or even - merely consider this.....would be like a pebble thrown into a still pond.....and that the positive reverberations of just temporarily setting aside your own agenda and being vulnerable and risking will prove worthy of this small effort - ten thousand-fold!!!!!!!!

I really do wish the best for both - and hell, for all of here for that matter!!!!!!

truthBtold
13-Apr-09

marypoppins
13-Apr-09

The SC wrote:
site coordinator 13-Apr-09
"...But in truth, I have been hoping for years that GG would learn and grow out of this ‘trashing everything’ point of view/state of mind, or whatever it really is. I honestly don’t know, and it doesn’t matter. The resulting crap is the same.

GG – I’ve asked you to stop the negativity and horse-beating of threads and ideas that has become not only common practice with you over the years, but now, it’s 99.9% of what you do on these threads.

I don’t like it. It’s not healthy for you, these boards, or anyone who comes here. Myself included. I want you gone for me and the sake of the site. No one should be asked to tolerate you or stay in spite of you. In my opinion, you have defiled good sense and healthy dialogue far too long."

We have to trust that the SC has a vantage point that we don't have. Perhaps we believe we "know" something, based on our experiences and interactions with certain posters, but not one of us has the perspective the SC has.

The SC seems to want this site to be a healthy place. I don't always know what's healthy and what's not. I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that a lot of us developed a high tolerance for craziness growing up.

I trust that the SC knows more about recovery and health than I do.

Mary

kroika
13-Apr-09

My goodness, what a hullaballoo! What a brouhaha! What a great way to perk up the hit count at this site :o)

Mary, you wrote, "The SC seems to want this site to be a healthy place." And Bitsy wrote, "We are all here for healing and growth"...

But those could just be assumptions, and not necessarily correct ones. Some people are no doubt here for healing and growth; some may be here for entertainment, some may be doing research, some may be here to cause mischief, and some may be earning a living or at least a buck, who knows. Remember a few months back on one of the Narcissist threads when somebody found this site's statistics online, and it said it employs over 25 people (too many posts to wade through... but it's in there somewhere). How many site administrators are there? We don't know. What do they do? We don't know.

Check out the very interesting thread from May 2005, entitled Should These Threads Stay Up? - Site Coordinator. At that time the SC stated it was getting too hard to moderate this place, and threatened to quit. Numerous posters, including Guest_guest, felt the SC's pain, and offered services as co-administrators, or suggested "hiring professionals" to moderate the site. Who knows if it ever happened?

As for banning... sometimes people who have been banned "for life" come back.

(Anybody see that happen with "peacesoul" last year?)

So I'm sure Tez and Guest and the SC will all be just fine.

have a happy day everybody

kroiks the kurious

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

Hmmm...

This conspiracy issue that bevdee & kroika speak about is really disturbing to me. It is paranoia. No validity.

There is 1 site administrator, me. I've only ever posted as site coordinator. I don't ever monitor or give a hoot about hit counts... guest_guest is NOT HELPING HIMSELF, or others by being here. I've written to him several times in email asking him to 'ignore' Tez, leave him alone, stop the pestering... and to no avail. He doesn't even understand or see it as this. It is hopeless, and there needs to be peace, and it isn't happening. One of them has to go, and since GG does similar tacticts with others, I 'chose' him.

It's time for learning and peace and growth to restore here instead of this constant back and forth pitting.

I have tried a truce with Tez & GG, it doesn't work.

And a sincere shame on those who believe there is some kind of "hit count" shit going on... unbelieveable - It saddens and sickens me to hear this.

Carry on... as usual.

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

Ha!!

I skimmed kroika's post previously... and really only skimmed it again. I don't have time to read anything entirely.

But, employ 25 people? I think someone who knows something about the internet, and how those 'statistics' get created should speak up (not me, I'm not qualified, cuz I could 'give a hoot').

But 25 people? I wish!! Well, no, I don't. There's one of me. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble about this place, but it's one person. I had a vision, a big vision... I asked friends and loved ones for help in creating this place. It was so very hard, and this is my 'baby'... my baby of love. I regret that I do not devote enough of my time these days to upgrading or 'keeping the peace', or teaching, etc... but this place is what it is. Trash it, make fun of hit, hang me for being just 1 person or 25 people... it's what this place is for. Open dialogue.. open so long as it moves along and promotes eventual growth and health. GG, was stuck here. Could not anyone see this? This place is NOT HELPFUL for him. It is harmful. He surely has better things to do than this. I would hope.

marypoppins
14-Apr-09

Dear SC,
I posted this to Tez last night:

"marypoppins 13-Apr-09
(((Tez)))
More than once, you reached out to Guest. I know that you were hoping that Guest would one day come around, as the SC wished, too. For the past year, I've followed many of the exchanges between you and Guest and gotten involved several times. I also tried to reach out to him, felt hopeful at times, but then, people are ready when they're ready. I hope that he finds peace.

Each of us has enough on his/her plate to contend with. A disagreement now and then, a challenge we can grow from, and opposing views are all to be expected on a site such as this, but we should be free from constant harrassment.

You held back for a long time before striking back. To those who only saw the more recent months of exchanges between you and Guest, it may look differently than it truly is. You're under no obligation to anyone but yourself.

All the best!

Mary"

I wanted you to know that I appreciate your efforts, a lot. Maybe your question about anyone seeing that Guest was stuck was rhetorical, but I did see it.

Thank you for writing from your heart. I did post some links with info about the site from the Narcissist thread. I don't know much about the Internet. People hear things and get paranoid. A lot of our secrets are here. Again, thank you for clarifying, and I'm sorry if I've added to your frustration.

I've learn so much from this site. Sometimes the lessons are hard, and I've had to face unpleasant truths about myself, but the support I've gotten has been consistent. I've seen growth in others here, too, which is inspirational. Most importantly, I don't feel alone.

Sincerely,

Mary

Healing.. and peace
14-Apr-09

Dear SC,

I did see exactly what you have posted in regard to Guest. Sad to say, I hope he does seek whatever help he needs, and wish him the best.

bevdee
14-Apr-09

Hey SC,
Thank you for all you do. What a brilliant way of reminding us to keep it focused on ourselves and not diagnose each other -

"This conspiracy issue that bevdee & kroika speak about is really disturbing to me. It is paranoia. No validity. "

This was also a great way of reinforcing what you have often cautioned against- shaming each other -

"And a sincere shame on those who believe there is some kind of "hit count" shit going on... unbelieveable "

It took me a minute to realise that is what you must have meant. At first, I thought you were upset or some shit like that. Brilliant.

marypoppins
14-Apr-09

I don't understand your post, Bev.

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

For those who may think that the status quo is “fighting”… I’d like to address that.

My belief: What you do and what others “do” on this website is YOUR OWN status quo. Not mine or this website’s. If you fight, feed it, condone it, stay here and read it and you don’t report it… then it’s your status quo.

What I have done in the past: There is a sign posted on top of the thread page with the mission of the site on it. It’s written in orange letters with orange Header Lines around it. I made those. Guidelines are plastered everywhere. I made those. I step in on occasion when I am notified in e-mail of a problem. I’m here right now. There is a specific guideline that asks EVERYONE here to E-MAIL me when there is a problem. I do consider unresolveable and continued “fighting” a problem.

What I continue to do: I ask people to leave the site, I remind people of the guidelines, I create new guidelines when needed (ie: no religion on support side), I reinforce and reminded of those guidelines… Because, it’s not my status quo. I’m writing this… it explains what I think of “status quo” here on the site.

What I don’t do: I do not read these threads. I do not follow story lines. I do not keep a naughty check list. I don’t delete content unless absolutely necessary. I don’t bleep out swear words. I don’t console hurt feelings. I don’t beat others up. I don’t assume.
If something meets these 3 criteria, then it’s a “problem/not status quo”: #1 is breaking the guidelines #2 is unacceptable or irresolvable by others on the site #3 I’ve been notified of it.

Many times, I’m notified in email, and by the time I get the notification, the problem is already resolved. Apologies are handed out, a resolution has been made, or the like. That happens about 90% of the time. I smile, and feel like there is hope in the world.
I’m here now, because there were three notifications in email that Tez was leaving & it was due to the continued throat ramming of guest_guest… I was notified a few months ago of the same, and I showed up. I posted. I talked directly to guest_guest, right here. And in email. And again few times recently. And a few times, in the past. It’s gotten old. In my opinion, GG finally needed to go. He’s not my status quo. Definitely not status quo on the support side. Has been borderline for years on liberation brew side.

It’s not the status quo not to follow the guidelines. Most people do follow the guidelines, most of the time. And most people don’t follow the guidelines, some of the time. It’s the status quo FOR YOURSELF, for GG, for WHOMEVER when we do not follow them.

Disclaimer: No where does it say that the site coordinator will be here day by day to watch and scorn and correct people for flinging their issues on people, for breaking guidelines, or for being the teacher of healthy communication… that’s your job. That’s your responsibility. When you drive an automobile, it is your responsibility to follow the guidelines. If you’re caught or reported, you get a ticket. If you do it again, you go to jail.
I mean, what planet do we think we’re on here? I’m on earth over here, maybe I’m broadcasting into outerspace.

Seize the opportunities you have in this life. Enjoy them. Saver them. Learn from them. Enjoy the opportunity you have on this site. If you don’t like the status quo you have all created here, then go elsewhere. I’m assuming you all like it, or you’d split.

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

No, really bevdee you should feel ashamed here. What you have said and done deserves it. Shame is what keeps horrible acts from happening to other human beings. What you have done to "ME", deserves shame. To defile and work to discredit another human being and their works of love, deserves shaming. I do not deserve what you are saying and doing here.

Shame is what keeps us from stealing and murdering in this world.

Shame on you. You should be APOLOGIZING.

And folks, really, I'm done posting on this... carry on.

tree_hugs_4life
14-Apr-09

I'll carry on. Bevdee has always done, and continues to, speak her mind. Tactfully, politely, ingeniously, fearlessly, and honestly. That's not shameful. That's respectful.

Admirable.

BEV'S post is brilliant. Think about it.

peace

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

And wow. I actually just read what you wrote bevdee... I mean, really read it. I'm flipping shocked. I'm brilliant for trying to convince someone of what??? This is paranoia.

Absolutely. I don't know how else to tell you bevdee, but you are paranoid. Come to Cleveland , Ohio , and see me. See my life, my family, my friends. What I do for a living. See me struggling to keep bullies like you at bay. Sit down and hear my story. I've got one like everyone else here. Sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse, and numerous other "issues" that I shall not name as it will make me a 'target' more than I already am. I've got issues :) they'll never all go away. I'll die first.
You actually think I'm being in-sincere?

I'm flipping pissed, enormously offended, incredibly SHOCKED, hurt.

You honestly, I mean, come ooooNNN! think I'm not a sensitive caring and feeling human being, who created this place, WORKED thanklessly for years for this place... I mean, where do you think this shit comes from?

I'm definitely tired of shit like this when I post. And for shit when I don't post, and people like you who think there's something fishy going on. It's called a life! I've been living with this website for 12 years now. I've got other things to do. Gimme a break!

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

tree,
bevs post is brilliant if you think that her broadcasting that I'm a liar and a fraud is "brilliant". That's what she did. Read it agai.

How is that brilliant? It's disrespectful. And you just said that it was done respectfully? It had about the hardest slap in the face possible with words.

that isn't respectful at all. it was a 'brilliant' disrespectful slap in the face. that's what it was.

I'm losing hope in this site again.... I really am.

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

tree... and bevdee...

I'm starting to think you're both imposters from the past. How's that for paranoia?

I'm requesting that you both leave the site permanently. Don't come back. Go somewhere else. Please create your own place that follows your own beliefs and rules. Give me the address when you're done, and I'll stop by to see how it's going.

Please, both of you, once you're done shitting on me and this site, find someplace else to dump your shit. Or create a new nickname and come back as someone else... but go as you are.

Because you are both no longer "welcome here" in my home. I've had enough of this brilliant disrespecful bullshit from the both of you. Assuming my life? How dare you. How fucking brilliantly bold and honest of you to know that I'm a liar and a fraud. thanks. you're welcome.

tree_hugs_4life
14-Apr-09

Oh stop it sc. The site is doing great and you're to be commended for that. "Children" develop a mind of their own, and move away as they grow, breathe, spread their wings. You've built an awesome thing. It almost lives and breathes. Now set it free. It WILL come back to you.

You're hurting it by not doing so. You're rousing the rebel rousers. Trying to control the teen during the tumultous times. It can be done, but that takes incredible tolerance, patience, understanding, self-control and deliberateness. Ya know?

Bevdee has been here a long time, has suffered enough shame in her lifetime, and you attemptimg to shame her pisses ME off!

The gloves need to come off. I'll take mine off if you do.

peace sc

peace

lollipop3
14-Apr-09

I hate when people speak in riddles. My sister always speaks in riddles.

If ya'll got something to say can ya'll just say it?

This is one of the main reasons I can't read the threads on this side. Way too draining for those of us who have jobs and lives and shit.

Forgive my ignorance but could someone explain the conspiracy please? What is brilliant? What hit counts are?

Someone? Anyone?

Thank you

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

tree,

This place doesn't live and breath, according to bevdee. I thought it did, so I leave it alone. And I'm condemned for not 'posting more' or bashing people for mistepping guidelines. I mean, that's my status quo? yes? I let it live & breath as a fighting machine according to bevdee. thanks bev. nice.

I love GG. I really do. Despite the shit he's said & done and heckling and unending bullheaded crap from him. I love that dude. I don't know who he is, but it hurts ME to ask him to leave. Almost to tears. He's family to me.

And according to bevdee, it's a lie and a fraud. and therefore, she really must go.

I've seen him post through the years. Typed a few emails to him over the years. Nothing special. But he is real to me. A real person. I didn't want to do this. I don't. But this 'living breathing place' needs me to.

And you tree, sound like someone who has been here before, left and come back. maybe bevdee too. She might have a couple aliases... but I sure don't!! when you see "site coordinator", it's me. just me. I have NEVER EVER posted as anyone else. And no one else has EVER EVER posted as me. that's the m-f truth.

Both of you. Leave this site. Neither of you are welcome here anymore.

I am a human being. I am not a computer, and I am strongly asking that you both exit the door.

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

sorry lolli. :)

but I think the people that this is 'intended for' get it.

there's a couple trouble makers that are boiling to the surface here while I'm here booting off guest_guest... so here I am... being the good ole SC.

I hate it!

don't worry about it. if you don't know what's going on, it's ok. I wish I didn't. Wish I didn't stop up here to see this shit.

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

I'm sorry everybody for being so 'public' like this.

I guess I'm all in on this one. Happens once every 3-4 years! And this is personal for me. Extremely PERSONAL. This place actually is part of my "real life", so hope you understand.

So, what I wanted to add, is that I posted the status quo stuff on the wrong thread. I was responding to what bevdee wrote on the "what is this site about" thread:

She wrote:

bevdee 13-Apr-09

Tbt, Actually, I have thought the fighting that was allowed to go unchecked at this site was the status quo. I was surprised at and consider the decision the SC made today to be shaking things up.
__________________
read what I have to say about 'status quo' if you're interested about 7 posts above here... and then I went on to rant and boot bevdee & tree. Which I do mean. I hope they leave.

tree_hugs_4life
14-Apr-09

Ya know what sc?
I never said this place lives and breathes according to bevdee. It does so on it's own.

You've created a marvelous thing.

Nobody is condemning you. Give the victim thing a break. Everybody here loves the site or they wouldn't be here.

Don't say you love guest and that he's family and then ban him. THAT SC, is bullshit. You got an ultimatum from Tez and succumbed to it. Ultimatums are manipulation ploys, you should know that.

Why can't bevdee just say what she wants? Why are you so afraid of her? Posters here can decide if they agree with her or not. She is harmless to you. People make their own decisions. What ya gonna do- ban everybody who vocalizes their questions regarding this site? That's encouraging not freedom of thinking. That's oppression.

This living breathing place didn't need you to ban guest. It needed to you let it live and breathe. cough cough joke choke

I sound like somebody who's been here before? Now let's talk paranoia. Making accusations. Sad, sad, sad. In your own words SC. Sad, sad, sad.
Of course. Leave the site. yawn. SC's intentions get questions, heads roll. Doesn't the Taliban do that? Didn't Stalin? Hitler?

Let it go SC. The posters could have handled guest and Tez. The posters could have handled this. You're the one causing all the shit. And you make it look like "poor SC."

Well enough of poor SC.

Take the gloves off. It's silliness to be fighting anyway. For you to be involved in it is just unbelievable. You could have done it in e-mail.

But no. You do it here. For all to see. For all to be intimidated by. For all to be afraid of.

For all to feel shame.

Well.....

THE SHAME IS ON YOU SC, and YOU should be the one apologizing.

Ya big enough to do that? ha.

now....

peace

mj
14-Apr-09

Dear SC, You are human. You have feelings. I hope that you know that this site is an amazing place. I am grateful for you the Creator. Years ago I offended you and you banned me. I have learned so much about myself because of your Allaboutcounseling website. I have lots more to learn too.
I just wanted you to know how your expression of emotion has taught me its ok to real. Love YOU

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

I want you gone tree. You are not welcome here.
GO!

If YOU were big, you would someday realize the immense enormity of your misteps here.

Find the door, and go...

marypoppins
14-Apr-09

Tree,

In my opinion, you're way off the mark.

Best of luck to you.

Mary

tree_hugs_4life
14-Apr-09

Bevdee's not your enemy sc. And neither am I.

peace

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

Tree & Bevdee,

Please, leave this site.

Please do not come here any longer.

You are both sincerely and officially asked to go!

NOW!

Say your goodbyes if you must, and take another DUMP on me, but then exit. If you want an apology, I'm giving it to you... I'm sorry, but you need to leave.

site coordinator
14-Apr-09


so tree, please post and let us know who "you" are... what other aliases and nonsense have you pulled in the past?

tree_hugs_4life
14-Apr-09

no.

tree_hugs_4life
14-Apr-09

oops we cross posted. the "no" is to leaving right now.

As for who I am? SC, you're being paranoid.

I don't know what to say to that. How about who do you think I am? lol

I mean really

peace

site coordinator
14-Apr-09

OK. that's what I thought. Probably twinks... I should do again what I did before, select all, delete.

If you're twinks, I've definitely uncovered a rotten egg.

marypoppins
14-Apr-09

Tree,

You don't have a choice. This isn't your site.

Why would you stay where you're not wanted?

This isn't a game. If you were fired from a job, would you refuse to go as well? If someone asked you to leave their home, would you cross your arms and stay put?

Peace
********************************
on my way, the thread starter, posted her email addy a short while later. She hasn't posted since. I assume she's banned, but we can't be sure, can we? :D

SC could of chosen not to respond. Once SC responded it should have been relevant, based on sound counseling advice. From my perspective it appears that you may have established a professional relationship with Heidi based on the fact she chose to give you advice about a problem you were having that caused you to be in psychological distress. The guidelines that she posts are a written contract after one clicks on them. AAC states in writting that the people who come and post agree to abide by the guidelines. The statements I read here are valid. The best way to bring closure is to call the psychological licensing board in OH and speak to an investigator about all of these concerns. I believe that they are the ones who are most qualified to deal with these issues. In my opinion SC answers were inappropriate as well as unprofessional. A counselor's job is to help people not to make them feel crazy.

Paul,

I really think most of the posters of the last 5-6 years have gone, having made contact with others they connected with, or just outgrown their need for it. Some of those remaining use the site for social contact, of just plain contact.

If each post was moderated, that would cut down on the chitchat the site claims to discourage, but allows. It would take more time on the site's part, but the SC, whoever that is, would know more what is going on. Of course, she or they would have to take responsibility for their site.

As for those remaining needing support - if the site is no longer there, maybe it will force them to find it elsewhere. Once they leave, they may realise what a mind suck it can be without the balance of other means of support. How indoctrinated the site is. I notice that, unless it is another codep site, not many people talk about codependency as a reality. I'm beginning to wonder if that model is passe. Many posters discuss that as a diagnosis, and it's not. It's a behavioral theory, not a medical or psychological condition. "We codies"..... "As codependents, we...".

It's easy to get wrapped in a mindset. I saw the same quotes over and over, every time I logged in. Shhhhh. Don't tell anyone.... over time, I did get weird about anonymity and found myself, when talking about my ex boyfriend, not saying his name. If I talked about him at all, I wouldn't divulge basic details!! The same books, written twenty years ago, are recommended to new posters at the site, and like you mentioned, site writings based on stats that are 15 years old are all that are posted.

The "site coordinator" has posted, in Heidi's style, over the years, that she was too busy and it was too exhausting to read all the threads, and relied on the community to self monitor. I found that bizarre. I looked at every thread, have several jobs, and went to school for two of those six years. This always confused me, the neglect she called detachment. Several times, in discussions that became flame wars, SC, in Heidi's style, would post only to say that she was learning much from the thread. And the name calling continued.

If one had a problem with a poster, or threads, she recommended emailing her to bring it to her attention. The few times I did, she would tell me to look to myself. If she responded at all.

I emailed SC once about Horsefly and her late night rants and name calling, calling posters bitches and being her last dream in hell (this was a while before doing jail time for possession that she posted about). This was the Dreams while we are sleeping thread. I got no response from SC, other than the auto reply the site sends out after business hours. Horsey probably got banned, because no one saw her chatter for two weeks, but she came back to do more of the same.

Once time I emailed the SC, got no response other than the confirmaton that it was received, then emailed back to see if she had had time to read it. Finally, I was told the response had been sent, I must not have received it. (Oh yeah, I'm such a ignernt hillbilly slut, I fell for that!!) Then I received an answer in vintage SC style - look to yourself, don't focus on others. Basically that it was my problem, not hers.

I just re-read all those emails, and I still shook my head, the way I did when I first read them. If I looked to SC, writing in Heidi's style, for guidance, I really would be delusional. It's crazy-making. I wondered at the time if her missing the point was deliberate, or just her own inabilities. I may never know.

Later-

I found some more info on Raynor, emailing to Paul.

Good thinking. Staying anonymous. According to the professional practice code a psychologist cant charge money without providing a service.

A police report might protect someone from being responsible for unwanted website visits showing up on ones computer.

You are a stand up man. Many thanks to you!

G_dude,

I don't think of it as "paying for" a mistake. I believe the site should be held accountable to professional ethics of their profession. I don't think what the site did to you or Free was ethical.
If it's just a matter of the SC trying to manipulate me or the site by shaming me, I can handle that. I'm not that vulnerable, and I'm not ashamed. I responded to SC the way I did, because she had so often posted that we were not to shame others.
I don't feel excluded or ostracized, because I have support in real time. I journal and examine my writing. There were some eye-openers, however, about who spoke up, who was scared to and who wasn't. Even those who emailed with me. Those that so appreciated all I contributed in the Narcissist thread and other threads did not post to me or about my banning, but were thanking the site coordinator for the site. Wow.
At a previous job, I used to be the one who spoke up at dept meetings. The entire department could have agreed on something, without the director of course, but when I brought it up at a meeting, no one would back me. The very same people that agreed with me so vehemently in private would look down when the director would start to disagree and try to talk over me until I shut up. So, I was the troublemaker, the malcontent, and they had their safe place.
For a while, I sorta bought into the "safe place" that the site purports to be, even though I never stopped noticing the late night bumping, deleted posts, etc. I sent donations when I could, on a fairly regular basis. Every other month or so a thread for donations is bumped up. It sure wasn't safe for the folks that tried to have discussions about porn addicted partners.

This thread "AAC relies on funding from us to continue- without donations, this site may close"

was started by Chelonia Mydas, the marine biologist of the site. She and Heidi have that in common.

I believe it is Raynor. As far as I know, she is the one who calls herself SC, says she is the only SC, and is the one who bans people, and directs posters to porn sites if they try to log on after being "banned."

To clarify on the "child's account", accounts are not separated into these categories. This child, treehugs, was 18 at the time, her friends 17-20. Part of what infuriated me about being directed to a porn site is that porn computer history could have a tremendous negative impact on my career. Because my 18 year old has the maturity to understand this fact, she is the only one of my children able to log on to my administrative account where it would even be possible to access a porn site.

I don't feel traumatized though.

So funny! Ok I'll be back later with replies.
-------
Tez Said:

"kindly remove your hobbed-nailed boots!"

That's funny. I don't own a pair.
-------
Its in the "who owns us all" thread.

The disturbing matter that involved redirecting a childs account to a porn site should be directed to the District Attorneys office in Ohio. I believe that logging on under different nick names is not illegal, forcing pornography on children is.

Paul, it's very gracious of you to let us post here. I am also grateful for your allowing the thread to derail. Haha - now that I have permission, get ready for the long long posts!!!!
Free, I emailed with Paul a couple of weeks ago to let him know I saw the slant he saw at AAC, but did not agree with all of what he writes on his site. And to let him know that what I was going to post would not engage him in debate. He emailed back that my agreement didn't matter to him at all. Totally cool about that, he was.

I see injustice and inequality on both sides. But I also see progress. I think it depends on the individual parties involved. I have a friend who let her son live with his father when he turned twelve. Her son wanted to, so she did it through the court system. The court ordered that support flip around to her, and she pays monthly child support and carries his health insurance. Visitation is open- they work it out between themselves, focused on the child's needs and wants, which have changed as he matures. He's sixteen now. She bought him a car, and dad pays the insurance and maintence on it. It's amicable- maybe it's the exception, I don't know. A lady I work with gave custody of her children to her husband because she couldn't afford a place big enough for them, and because she works 12 hour shifts, and the children needed someone with them - Dad works from home. They get along for the most part, at least when it comes to decisions about the children. They bicker about child support, but he has only asked for an increase once - and lost.
My stepsister divorced her little boy's daddy, and he bought a house across the alley from them, and eats breakfast with them every morning. On nights that her new boyfriend stays over, my nephew stays at his dad's. Whatever feelings they have about this are put aside for the well-being of their child.

All of this was settled before they got to court, or in such a way that the judicial system wasn't needed. So, I don't know as much about the courts as you and Paul do, since I don't have kids, have no first hand experience with it, and have never even been close to nasty court wars like you have. I saw my ex work the system to his benefit, not the child's, and I also saw my sister do the same thing when she got divorced.

I like discussing or watching discussion of different viewpoints as long as there is no mudslinging and name calling involved. I love respectful sharing of ideas and philosophies.

I logged on to AAC today, and saw the thread Who Owns Us All, saw Tez in the minority, and some accusations or interpretations tossed his way. It's not new at that site, people getting disrespected because others don't like their manner of speaking, or what they are saying. Because I like Tez, I started to get riled, but decided to wash dishes instead. I mean why. The guy helped me a lot. I never took everything he said as truth or enlightened, because I know he is a flawed human like the rest of us, but I like him. Some of his "wisdom" worked for me and I didn't need to challenge that which didn't.
What others may have interpreted as arrogance, I attributed to his generation, and upbringing in a different country. His language is proper, more British, ours is sloppy and slangy, mine's redneck. He was a professor at a university years ago. I never considered his speech as talking down to me. He wasn't always an easy read, but that caused me to slow down, re-read, and prevented me from reacting instantly, other than to ask him what he meant.

Now, the responses to Tez on that thread that I referred to are all by women, but I do not consider that to be man bashing - it's a couple of opinions that differ from his, held by women on a site that is 99.7% female. (my estimate)
While I did the dishes, I thought about this - I wanted to post to him to let him know that I agree with some of what he says, and that some of it was worth considering, maybe put a different slant on it the way I always did for three years. That I appreciate reading the references he takes the time to put out to the site. But I can't now.

And... for all that I love him, for all that his friendship meant to me at one time on that site, I do remember how he went totally underground when we got banned. He was all over the place, then nowhere. No taking up for us there. Wouldn't even say a "proper" bon voyage to me or Free on the site. So- he really doesn't need me to diffuse any heat he may get on the site. He can hold his own, and is - by posting long posts that are basically saying "mirrors" or "one fingers points out, three point back". or "I know what you are, but what am I?"
:~)
But it's great to see him in action, and to see the responses he gets.
The beat goes on, at least with some of the old faithfuls of the site. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Free, I don't know if I would call them dog packs, but there are (were) definite factions, or alliances at the site. That's human nature. I used to get accused of that (not talking about you, Free) but by another poster that considered everyone that did not agree with her, when she went on attack, a clique. She told me I was toxic. That was most everyone, except of course those she had her alliances with.

There are people like this in real time, though, aren't there? Does art imitate life or does life imitate art?
Is a discussion forum community simply a concentrated version and lesson, if we make it that, of what goes on in real life? That forum, and a couple of others with all the packs, factions, whatever have been good lessons for me- at work and in my family.

It's true that there are a lot of people at AAC that have made contact outside the site. I did, but out of respect for those that still need to use the site for whatever reasons, I won't share who it is. If it weren't for respecting that need, I would post the whole list. That doesn't seem to get anyone banned. Talking about it doesn't either. Ladeska openly admitted emailing Survivorofabuse, Lovinglife admitted it in Paul's thread, said she admitted it to SC, and Seeker came back after Guppy admitted they met. Rising came back right after the latest discussions about it. Michigan came back, with an apology to the site. Both posted their emails. I don't think that's the big deal. You can read the threads and see when people have made contact- they give away little hints, then their posting to each other drops off. They can talk about where to find each other on Facebook, FarmTown, other sites that allow PMs.

The only thing that really seems to get you banned is if you don't appear to agree with SC's.

But Free, you are right about this - the site seems to have gone low since the last flame - the weekend was way slow, and Monday only a couple of threads on Libs are showing for one day, and Support is at an all time low. Maybe someone(s) took the day off, it WAS Columbus Day, after all!! Maybe they will be back from holiday and the hits will come back up.

However, I am still interested in the outcome of professional ethics being investigated. I've wondered about Admin's non-response to it, too. Maybe they think it's best not to address it. Or maybe all the SC's all have avoidant personality disorders, have magical thinking and think it will go away.

There are some people there that don't seem to have found any other means of support yet. I really hate to see Army posting and hardly anyone posting back to her. Her issues are so serious though, and most of what is going on there is social, or put out by the site. I wish her godspeed in her journey.

As I have said in the past, any and all of you are welcome to use this particular article as a meeting place for as long as you desire. I couldn't care less about how long you stay.

This website is more of less a holding are for my written work. Traffic here is slow and steady at about 2,500 visitors a month. My real activism happens off site.

In fact, as the thirty day days notice I gave AAC regarding it's practices soon expires, you will be able to come back here and read the blow by blow accounting of what happens. It will be helpful to you if this site comes up in the forum at AAC. And it will give you the real story if AAC goes offline.

Well y'all, I'm not qualified to run anything like a mental health forum, but I can talk.

Not sure I want to do the kind of support I did for two years on the other site- lessons learned, life enriched from all that, but I can be nice. I just don't know how much time I would devote to it. I work extra whenever I get the chance, I have all these little per diem jobs in addition to my regular one - I'm saving to move, build a house. I mostly log on on the weekends from work when I can.

"Discussion board softwares are free" Seriously, no cost? If you have the time, why not? You did that other one didn't you? I don't have the knowledge to do it. You might need input on the speed dating, this conveyor belt thang you got goin on all of a sudden, and if there were other men at the site, you might get a better balance of that. You certainly got enough women's advice at AAC, didn't you?

Candy Mountain? Well, if you think you are Charlie, then I'm going to be the purple lady. Free gets to be the pink one cause she's not here to pick. But be careful Dude, remember they got his kidney AND his TV, mat and little lamp. They have the amulet.....

have you seen 3? " We have to be sneaky.... into the liquid abysssss"

and this one !! look at this one and decide about your own site. :D Hilarious.

Yeah, we need to get off Paul's site. We're too silly.

Oh do we really want to say "all about" anything?


Hmm... All about anything
A little bit of everything
Lib Brouhaha

G_Dude, I am imagining you on a scaffold hammering away, building a site. I am also remembering you posting something really sweet to a poster called Bowlinggreen during those porn wars in 06 (???) - you said ~ you deserve to have someone to snuggle with~ and it made me cry when I read it. We all do.

Mr Paul Elam, thank you for the encouragement. It's given me pause, thinking about taking all that has happened to me and putting what I have learned during and after to good use. I'm considering it. but. I posted my farewell to Free at AAC and said something like this - I either can't remember the name of the thread I started ????? or .... can't find it?????
>:(
anyway, I told her that her contributions to the site, along with a couple of others was incredible,one for resources and her for the way she calmly reached out to victims of abuse. She gives calm, focused, consistent support in a way I am not able to do, because I still get too riled up. I told her I am better at paperwork and behind the scenes, whereas she is front line support.

Miss Free, it's something to think about.

for this country girl. You don't have to get fancy on accounta me

Now if THAT ain't scary.....lol

G_dude,

Build it and I will come.

G_Dude, ever the irreverent ain't ya? TMHBLOL (tossing my hair back...) you ARE the Banana King. Nekkid dancers? My mom would probably just get ta dancing with both of them. But- she wasn't sexually abused or affected by porn, that I know of. Y'all were and shared it at the site.

There's a huge discrepancy there, in the way the posters are treated. That was one of my main concerns, and after a couple of unsatisfactory exchanges with the SC about the abusive, bullying behaviour of one of the posters in the porn threads. S/he/they pretty much shrugged it off, saying that it was Libs, people got hurt - Even though porn was moved from Support because it was of too sensitive a nature and triggering to some, but was not given the sensitivity it deserved on Libs because one person liked it, needed to defend it, and couldn't stand to hear an opinion about it than was different than his. Can the continuing toleration of such behaviour on a counseling forum be compared to a person trying to share with their counselor the effects porn had on them, and the counselor taking it out of the office into the full waiting room where songs like Me So Horny, I Touch Myself, Strokin, are playing? Everyone watching and commenting that the person trying to share is an anti-porn hystericist? Bizarre.

"3. The Liberation brew threads are however, for debate, which does & can involve cold &calculating arguments & hurting feelings. This needs to be remembered, and so in cases such as this where there is a NEED to not have opposing opinions debated, hurtful, there can be "pro" "con" "debate" and "excludatory" threads all on the same topic (if need be.)"

Whut? It's like reading a different language - I had to read it twice!! Why should debate/discussion involve coldly,calculatingly hurting feelings? whut? Why can't the rules of civil debate be adhered to, and every person held to that standard? We know that threads get deleted, people get banned, but only in particular cases, namely for critiquing management, maybe unknowingly. : /

Bottom line - the behaviour was tolerated, no matter that I was not the first one to voice a concern about it, not the only one at the time, nor probably the last. Think porn threads turned into flame wars, how many times they occurred, and why. Every time these occurred, the site went dead, lost more people, but nothing ever changed.

Maybe the porn redirect was one of the "other" one's lil idears!!

I decided not to engage in double talk any more - been there done that, moving away from it. But it opened my eyes to the fact that all there is not what it seems, or what is purported to be. It was then that I started to wonder if there was more than one captain of the ship on the AASea. Who is defended, left alone, not called on for accountability, etc. So many that claim the same professions, credentials. There are a few such at the site. Think about it.

No, Mr Elam, I didn't think it would happen simply because you want it to. If that happened, you would be some kind of magical man. I see you as a person who works very hard toward achieving goals you have set for yourself. Action and perserverance, not magic. I'm interested in this because I have wondered about what I have seen at that site and a couple of others run by "counselors", and about professional ethics on the internet.

Happy Sunday!

LOL, I wasn't thinking that they would all just leave because I said so. Still, I got several emails from people who said they had written the site admin and instructed them to remove their listing. And of course, I am not done yet. Google allaboutcounseling.com and see what pops up on the first page. Think about what that could mean in terms of my future plans regarding the individual providers that list there.

I assure you before I am done, the people listed there will care. I'm not new to this or to their profession.


:) Paul

From new masculinity

"Vigilance--regarding all our actions & attitudes. oppression and prejudice permeate the atmosphere."

This says more about the author than it does about the real world, doesn't it? Whose atmosphere?

Letting "ACC be" is not in the stars. If whoever is running the site wants it left alone, then they can make that happen with a few keystrokes by removing the false information and misandric slant of much of the information. That this has not happened is a signal to me that not only is the hatred intentional, it is worth it to someone to fight to keep it there and they are willing to put the professionals who are listed there at professional risk in the process.

I also have to say that your ideas on this strike me as profoundly selfish and self serving. And quite frankly of questionable values.

Personally I have removed myself from a couple of men's issues site that were nothing more than places to bash women. Remaining would have been better for me personally, in order to expose more of my work. But my principle belief is that women are not the enemy and that painting them that way is false and destructive. So I left.

I am sure there are good people at the AAC forum. As I have said repeatedly I have no problem with them. But I owe them nothing either. AAC is spreading lies that have been hurting men, women and children for decades. That is a lot more important to me than anything else, and it should be to you as well, but I can't make you see that. So be it.

At the end of the thirty days you will see a STORM of activity around AAC, and it will include many names, addresses, phone numbers and the like of people listing services there.

I won't quit till they change or lose their directory. It is their choice.

And when I am done there, trust me, the bigger fish are next. Someone has to try to put an end to this insanity.

The email treehugs posted (that was taken down right away) not only stated the above. It stated my name, my occupation, the names of my children, the names of my abusive ex husbands, where we live, and the names of my parents and where they live, which is in another state! It was scary. However, it taught me to be much more careful on the internet. How this specific information was obtained is quite an enigma to me. AS treehugs I was banned for sharing what I knew about the site- when it was forming there was more than one SC, and these people posted and knew each other, one poster, Arwen was her nic, was amongst them until she angered the "head SC", Heidi (I'm omitting her last name), and was banned. Arwen made another nic and this enraged the other SC's as Arwen had been posting without their knowledge. This has made me wonder if the current obsession of lollipop3 (who by the way knows that "rising" has a former nic and is posting currently), Shani, Destinystar, and Lovinglife are from this group of the early days and thinking that maybe free is Arwen- thus this animosity toward anyone they think might be free. A cop from louisianna, Elliott, posted his email in response to Arwen's multiple bannings as a form of protest, and was subsequently banned. Arwen posted hers as well and we talked for some time. She made a suicide attempt (not the first time) and I was angry with her for that, and she never contacted me again. Elliott was as onry as guest, but I don't think guest_guest is Elliott. For a long time I thought WD was Elliott, but I think Elliott just plain left. Arwen I lost touch with a couple years ago. A room mate of mine, taz, came on and raised holy hell for awhile because I'd asked her to move out. This is when ladeska started the coffeehouse. I'm not sure about the story of twinks. I, as free, had refrained from the internet completely as a safety precaution during a time when my first husband was beginning stalking again (serious stalking- he was tried by jury and convicted)and I did not come back to the net until probation got him back under control. At that time when I came back there was a war in libs with wd and a war on support (actually everywhere) with twinks. I have never been able to find out what exactly her story is, or what happened, as she was banned shortly after I came back. But I'm quite curious if you're reading twinks. Are you Arwen? I'd love to hear from you if you are and hope things are well with you.

As free I was banned because my second husband came on as losermike when we separated. I confronted my then husband losermike on the site. Big mistake. Michael is incredible at head games. He got other people involved to post against me and when he tried to get my oldest daughter on "his side" she and her friends got involved and they were all posting- against him. A group of teens from myspace were posting against him, for him, against me, for me. Everyone including myself got banned. I learned that I only had a couple cyber friends at the site. This was a time of great grief and I needed support but it wasn't there. Understandably so, because I had not as free, been nice much of the time. I had a huge chip on my shoulder and could rarely resist a fight. My daughter started posting as treehugs and I'm not computer savvy, so I just used her nic when I wanted to post because it worked. Free was banned from my computer, treehugs wasn't and I didn't care to learn how or why. Shaney- she can't resist an opportunity to jump on me or anybody she thinks is free and I don't know where that comes from. I rarely see her post otherwise.

That's the saga of the site as I know it. It's a cyber soap opera. It's not a man's hate site or a women's feminist site, it's a saga site where personal issues can be worked out in cyber space. I learned to deal with bullies, how to fight back, how to let things roll off my shoulder, how to be a shoulder for someone to cry on. The site caused me no harm. Shock at being redirected to a porn site yes, but harm- c'mon. this is cyber space- if you don't like what somebody is saying then don't read it! Old stats can be updated and then just leave them alone I say. The people there are there because they want to be there. They like the site and shouldn't have to explain why. Nor should they have to fear it being taken away when they've bonded in that cyber way that people do. It's not fair to them.

Just leave AAC be. For the most part people there are good people, as most people are. And the SC, well, ya know, she's human too. let bygones be bygones. I don't get the whole secrecy of the site thing,nor will I abide by it, but whatever, I'm sure the secrets are there for a reason, and the reason is not to exploit people. If they are making money, so what? They aren't making a fraction of what our legal system makes exploiting people. If they are collecting data, well be careful on the net. I get a buttload of junk mail everytime I register at a site. So if this SC is collecting data, she's no different.

Let AAC be. There are far bigger fishes in the ocean.

If no money is being made from it, and it's so draining, what purpose is the site serving to the owners? Is it really altruistic? It's gotta be more than that - since it's such a thankless, dangerous tiresome job.

Does the site function as research for the owner(s), as it does for some of the posters? Some posters openly claim to use it for those purposes - papers for psych and sosh classes, etc, and nobody minds.

One even stated in Mr. Elam's thread that her participation is for a distraction and she will write about the dynamics in a paper she is working on. Some researchers with sites or blogs do this openly, stating that they are collecting info on this or that. (Sociopathy, for example. Women who love them... The charm/abuse of the Narcissist) Those sites state that your story would be used to compile information of the effects of this or that. So, unless they are guarding some secret, a copyright for example, why not just say it? Sorry for the conspiracy thang, I just hadda say it. But it isn't stated clearly, it's talked around.


But really, there's not much there since April. This shows a year of site traffic, dropping from almost 42,000 in April 09 to maybe 12,000 in Aug 09.
http://www.quantcast.com/allaboutcounseling.com

What really puzzles me is how these demographics are obtained. When I registered, I did not have to state my age, sex, race, income, # of children I have had, or my education level. I had to give them an email. That's it. The site encourages us not to give out too many details, because of anonymity. And many people don't. For total anonymity, I gave an email addy that did not have my real name on it. So- where do they get these figures to submit? Do they watch the threads and chart down info as it's posted? I wonder. Donations might give some clues. A check or money order signed with a real name, credit card info. Postmarks on the envelope. If they cared to investigate. Remember that email that treehugs posted - the one that called her troll garbage, mother of three?



Some of the older posters referred to SC as him, and some of them as her. Sometimes they. It's very obscure. Even the developers are not listed as the "SC", who states preferring anonymity, not feeling safe on the site. I don't understand the fear and I don't understand the lack of transparency. I didn't understand a lot of things. Being banned for what I said cleared some of it up, but not all of it.

A contradiction, or something misleading is that when counseling is googled, AAC comes up. It's not about counseling. It's unmoderated discussion by non professionals in a mosh pit.

Hey you two -I totally don't understand them redirecting you all to porn sites. That was so not necessary. You, who were vulnerable enough to share the effects porn and sexual abuse had on you. Plus those can really mess up your computer. Whoever did that must have been really angry. Like afraid, not thinking, angry.

G_ "For SC to explain all those site details was unhealthy. She didnt have to explain anything to anyone. " It sure wasn't anonymous or confidential, was it? I don't remember protesting your banning, or questioning that decision. So, I thought it odd.


G_dude, you can look up a site's real estate value here -
http://www.websiteoutlook.com/
See how much the ole mud hut is worth.

SInce I was banned, I've shown the site to some people in my real life. I showed them some of the threads on Support, and they were amazed at the responses some of these posters got, especially the dv threads. One of these has experience with patient counseling, and the other? No training, just a real nice person, a good listener. He said how is this considered counseling or support?

Even though AAC will pop up when counseling is googled, it's because of the domain name.

hi Bevdee ah, the whopper calling told me it was you but when I checked the saved post where you were banned, it was Kroika who made the "hit count" claim. Maybe she was repeating what you'd said. Oh well. Yea! So how you been? It may not have been a loss for me to not be there at the AAC site but Site Coordinator definitely made a bad move to ban you. Oh well, we are here. "bannedit" - funny!

>> I think the thing that really ignited admin was that someone quoted me quoting a website that said AAC claimed 1-25 employees.

Lol, funny that SC got mad on that? Thats a rough stats from website statistics companies. 1-25 - didnt she notice the ONE in there? Yea.

>> I care so much about the site because I created it, by hand, peck by peck, out of my mind, with help from some SUPER FRIENDS... I had such a vision that it consumed me for years.

SC has to stop thinking that. Building a website with a discussion forum costs well, lets see: $5/month nowdays. There are free Discussion board softwares available and even then! You can actually get free discussion boards. She has to stop thinking about the money and the people who built the site. That site is actually WAY old tech as compared to other discussion boards on the internet. Its like a mud hut when everything else around is built with bricks.

>> GG had to go. I've talked to him 1:1 numerous times, and it was time. Whether or not Tez made his grand stand.

She didnt even have to DO anything. All she had to do is let the site self-govern. Tez would have left on his own. She had to do NOTHING. At the time I had no fights with anyone. But they're both of the same frame of mind: they love wallowing in intellectual BS and stroking people's ego's and love getting their own egos stroked. Anyway. So when she banned me, she knew she was travelling on the wrong side of the highway. She'd lost her footing and hence the outbursts and banning of you (and treehugs too; although Tree was ofcourse more confrontational so that ban was probably expected).

For SC to explain all those site details was unhealthy. She didnt have to explain anything to anyone.

>> Oh, and your friend Tree is actually Free. She was asked to leave a while back, year or so, can't remember, because she is mean, cruel, defiant... and you think I'm a shamer? she shames people on a daily basis. She hurts people, for real. All the time. And you have hurt me.


Aw poor SC, well, get back in here with the other people and change your username to "Site Coordinator Needs Help Too".

>> Why refute it over and over, in public, then in private? Point by point. Then s/he/they always claimed that the posters hurt her/him/them, and intimated at shutting the site down. Really manipulative on a codependency site.

Yea most definitely, you got it. Tell you what, she should give up the site. It will free her burden and make her a happier person, I'm not kidding. Other people can find other websites to go. Its a pain in the butt, administering that site. She shouldnt do it if she's that vulnerable to hurt herself. What use is the site to her? I dont know. If she's not making any money off it, that $25,000 and her dear programmer friends - thats all a sunk cost.

>> so I have a quagmire in my life

Ah, SC, please let it go. I knwo you're reading this. Go take care of yourself. Shut down the place. It wont harm anyone, honestly. They'll miss the site for a few weeks and then it'll be ok. The only thing to come out of it? A massive relief, for YOU. I'm not kidding. Its freedom that you dont know about.

>> I feel a tremendous PERSONAL sense of pride and responsibility

It was pride in the past. As I said, making a discussion board nowdays is $5/month. Look up phpBB, its free discussion board software, 100 times more advanced than whats there on AAC right now. I've told you about that in email before but you said you wanted to keep it simple. ANYWA, give it up and feel the freedom i.e. - if its such a problem for you. An average person simply cannot handle 100 people on a mental healthy site alone and keep them all in line. Its asking too much.

>> Will I step up again?

You need to step the hell up for YOURSELF. Screw everyone else.

>> In short, managing this site over the years has really taken it’s toll on me… emotionally.

THERE ya go, SC! You said it real short and I had to blah-blah to say the same.

>> I feel exhausted when I skim through the threads, which is truly skimming like a 50 mph power boat ride across 100 miles of ocean with miles of sea underneath

YEA!

>> because I wonder what my ‘role’ is anymore… if I were to take a more active role again, what would it look like?

I'll tell you what your role should be. Your role should be to shut down that site OR transfer the responsibility to a mental health student somewhere in C. Talk to a teacher. It can be a project for a student who'se learning to be a counselor. They can even jump in to give online counseling. Whatever, just leave the site or shut it down and -- join another mental health site and be like us. Talk about whats bothering you. Drop the mop and sit down and relax.

You're not a bad person but its hard on you. You dont have to do it - do you? BUT, if the site is giving you say, $300/month? Keep doing it, thats fine. Everyone has to work for money, consider this your work and work is usually never fun.

Ok back to Bevdee:

>> Feels too vulnerable to post on a site she espouses as "safe" to be vulnerable? Oxymoronic, isn't it?

lol. yea! Thats so funny. Its like: This chair is so comfortable that it breaks my back. Or this chair is so uncomfortable that it cures my backache. Something like that.

>> I think some people were so freaked by her rather violent reaction that they are afraid to say anything contrary to what they think she wants to hear.

Yup, the stiffling air is present all the time. I think the guidelines are too restrictive. Dont chit Chat. Dont do that. Dont tell the poster their zipper is down, whatever. Just pretend everything is fine.

>> I'm sorry G_, you hotbald candydancing Y dude, I waited for you, but you never manifested yourself to me. ;~x

You know I've made that mistake actually in real life a LOT. The other day I checked out the profile of a girl who had some kinda crush on me and I didnt return her advances and guess what - now she has a picture of her with her hubby on facebook. lol. Ahh, too bad. But its ok, now I'm determined.

So you've been having fun hm, thats nice! I log on to AAC cause I got a software that stores all my usernames and passwords so its a single click to log on. Great software. But I go there since I'm in a habit.

I'm trying to fix my sleep nowdays. I found out its my congested sinuses. But I'm happy atleast I know whats wrong. Still single and been busy on online projects and pass times and played a computer like mad for two months and gave it up.

*** Hi Treehugs! ***
*******************

Ha, so you were redirected to the Porn site too? That confirms it! Now we know we're not alone. And lollipop3 there talked about it on AAC and there wasnt any response. Its so incredible that everyone just skipped over it in disbelief "what, nah that couldnt have happened. Not SC, not AAC".

>> I almost fell out of my chair when that happened!

lol, yea. Oh what a shock. "Be gentle. Dont judge. Limit Chit Chat. Be positive". And then BAM - you're taken to a red and white porn movies site. Thanks SC.

God, about Worried Dad, I have different thoughts than you as you probably know. He likely hooked up online with an Asian chic in Phillipines or something. He said he had to look at 2300 applications? WHATT. And then that woman cheats on him, he flies to her half way across the world and gets DUMPED when he gets there. Poor WD. He puffs up like he's 6"3 when he's shorter than me, lol. And I'm short. Well he did always make me mad over religion so yea. How sad.

I feel the site is still the same. Its still the same occassional "What do I, I'm sad, in trouble" post from a newbie. The Liberation Brew was dead before too if you took me, Tez, Bevdee and the other people haggling over religion and issues out of it. The site overall was never active and has always been a low traffic site - like most typical sites. Thats how it is with the internet.

Anyway thats nice to know you're doing well on the site.

*** hey Tez i know you're reading this! ***

I always LOL at the last line I left in the "Is Reincarnation possible?" thread. Lol, too funny. Ooohh, that was good. Sometimes I go there to check it out. Poor you, you couldnt take it. You cried Mama and your Mama SC came to save you by banning me from the site. You're double my age. It was nice to know though that the whole episode "caused a scar on your psyche". Yea, it did because I was telling the truth about your beliefs and it HURT like hell, didnt it? Yea. SCARRED your psyche, damn right it did. lol.

Poor SC, you cried for milk and she gave you some. And then she redirected me and Treehugs here to Porn sites. A scarred psyche and a porn website. What a strange ending.

G_dude,

Just three of us that were banned. I was Bevdee at AAC. KatiAncho means wild rose in Choctaw. You were fun to argue with cause you came close but you never won!! Haha. It was all in fun and I think the site coordinators and some of the other folks took it too seriously. And that SC - ballistic on the site, then weird emails, trying to explain itself. I got this after I was asked to leave, but could still log in. I guess s/he/they didn't get around to actually banning my IP addy till a couple of months later.

I think the thing that really ignited admin was that someone quoted me quoting a website that said AAC claimed 1-25 employees. That's when the stuff really hit the fan. That's when I was proclaimed sick and delusional. :D Treehugs came in and told her to cut the crap (or something like that), because she knew there was more than one coordinator. Treehugs was told to leave immediately after she posted that.

(the only thing I have altered is to *** out my email addy)

bye...
Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:48 AM
From:
This sender is DomainKeys verified
"All About Counseling"
Add sender to Contacts
To:
[****************]

Hi whoever you are...

I really wanted to say a couple things.

1. You're very wrong about everything you wrote & think about me and the site... there's 1 person here. I know it's hard to believe, but, o well. I'm by myself back here.

2. I care so much about the site because I created it, by hand, peck by peck, out of my mind, with help from some SUPER FRIENDS... I had such a vision that it consumed me for years. Over the years I've had to let it "go" because I am too attached to it. Like a child I suppose. And I love the people who visit.

3. GG had to go. I've talked to him 1:1 numerous times, and it was time. Whether or not Tez made his grand stand.

4. I haven't a clue what hit statistics the site gets. Google ads don't go by 'hits' either, it's got to be click throughs only. But I haven't even taken the time to figure that out either. I put them up because a friend suggested it a couple years ago, and they earn enough to cover the tax on the website hosting (which goes above the $45/month), plus the yearly network solutions fee - so I don't pay that anymore, and it covers the Fees that Paypal takes out, which when people donate a little, they take out even more, ... so realy, the ads keep my out of pocket expenses at pretty much even. Which is good, because I've sunk over $14K of my own money into the site. I consider it still, worth it.

It's so disheartening, I don't know why I care, but it is, that you think I'm some kind of ... oh, insincere liar as is the picture you have painted. It's shocking and TREMENDOUSLY hurtful to me.

Oh, and your friend Tree is actually Free. She was asked to leave a while back, year or so, can't remember, because she is mean, cruel, defiant... and you think I'm a shamer? she shames people on a daily basis. She hurts people, for real. All the time. And you have hurt me.

Peace, SC"

She shore did protest a lot didn't she? Why refute it over and over, in public, then in private? Point by point. Then s/he/they always claimed that the posters hurt her/him/them, and intimated at shutting the site down. Really manipulative on a codependency site, wouldn't you say? Pretty unenlightened of a counselor not to see that in her/himself.
But, as you know, we all could still log in.

Admin posted this in Weird Questions after I first posted my observations of the site.

" site coordinator
26-Feb-08
Hi Bevdee (and Tez).
It was rewarding for me to read your above post Bevdee from Feb 25. It has inspired me (somewhat) to write a little about what’s going on with me and the site… but even so I’m hesitant and not sure if I will post! It’s risky for me to make a statement, request, etc on these threads. And such is the nature of the site itself… people who are hurting and vulnerable and wanting to learn coping skills tend to react in part unpredictably and irrationally. Rocks get thrown and prayers are said. And since I created this place in 1997 and it’s ‘going live’ in April 1998, the www has expanded and evolved and included billions of more people around the world. And I have a big target on my back for those unpredictable, irrational, ego-protecting rocks because of my perceived roles here… so probably several years back I more or less unconsciously began not to post – and I know consciously now that it was for personal protection. This site is more of a ‘reality’ for me than for anyone else here… so it has potential to ‘leak’ into my real personal life, self-esteem, emotional well being, etc… it’s not an option for me to ‘walk away’ and ‘find another place’. To say “screw this place it sucks!” - to detach myself from it’s ‘being’. It’s not an option unless I destroy it, which has it’s own devastating emotional consequences… so I have a quagmire in my life… quite funny and interesting when I think about it. This place “IS” a reality for me I realized that probably 8 years ago. I feel a tremendous PERSONAL sense of pride and responsibility… although I have let some of my responsibility sift and slip away over the years. Will I step up again? This is my egging question to myself that has been clacking at me for the last 8-10 months or so. But when I have these thoughts, I let them go as quickly as I can because I know what this commitment and effort means…
It may too be of interest to know I have not ever posted under any nickname other than my own “site coordinator”. And no one other than me, has posted as “site coordinator”.
In short, managing this site over the years has really taken it’s toll on me… emotionally. I feel exhausted when I skim through the threads, which is truly skimming like a 50 mph power boat ride across 100 miles of ocean with miles of sea underneath… because I wonder what my ‘role’ is anymore… if I were to take a more active role again, what would it look like? How will it affect me? How will it affect the site? Is it a risk I want to take? Do I have a choice? Is this quagmire like a child that grows up and the parent truly never lets go?
Well, I think I’ve said enough for a day, and if you choose to respond, I will post back to you :)
Love, SC"

Whatever? Yeah, I loved answering that one. Feels too vulnerable to post on a site she espouses as "safe" to be vulnerable? Oxymoronic, isn't it?

And it was dramatic and shocking, I think. I think some people were so freaked by her rather violent reaction that they are afraid to say anything contrary to what they think she wants to hear. I know attendance dropped way off. Even if you can't login, look up the site traffic on Alexa for the last 5 months. Telling.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/allaboutcounseling.com

Alexa traffic rank for allaboutcounseling.com:
7 day avg 908,155
1 month avg 783,903
3 month avg 697,863
3 month change -197,343


But it's all good. I've had the best summer! I have been doing a lot of yard work (hard labor to this former princess) spending alot of time outdoors getting a farmers tan, battling fire ants (pronounced far aints), collecting quartz, looking at stars, kickin it at the lake. Been writing on my book-that-will-never-be-finished-let-alone-published. Oh yeah, and I went and fell in love. And it's really good. I'm sorry G_, you hotbald candydancing Y dude, I waited for you, but you never manifested yourself to me. ;~x

It sure got wild there didn't it? Then after that, it died. It's funny, in a trippy kinda way. I don't log on there much any more, but did last Friday and saw Mr Elam's post which led me here. I'm happy to know you are doing ok.

Mr Elam, isn't it interesting that you became the one with the problem at AAC? Pulsating with hate and in pain? you NEWBIE who made the big mistake. For stating an opinion that was different from the mainstream, upsetting the status quo, you were oh-so-graciously interrogated, by so-faux counselors, then asked to share your pain and work through your issues. Crazy, ain't it?

Thanks for letting us post on your site like this - us bannedits.

No guilt necessary. Use the comment section as you please. And welcome.
Paul

And come to think of it, Free and I, maybe a couple of others, were one of the few women that actually had respectful discussions with the three other males at the site. If anyone did respond to those men, or new ones, they were kind of hammered on, in my opinion. I even emailed that once to the SC. Hmmm.

Hi Paul, its me again. I had just sent you two emails. Commenting on this:

>> This insanity needs to end, and that starts with the professionals who list their services in the ALLABOUTCOUNSELING.COM directory.

All of these professionals probably pay Site Coordinator to have their ad placed on her site. As its a venue for advertising they'll probably keep the ad with her.

Now I want to announce to the World wide web that when this Site Coordinator of the AllAboutCounseling.com website banned me from the site, she redirected me to a Porn movies site for a few days whenever I visited the Discussion threads. After a few days, the redirect was changed to Google which it is to this day. As to why I was banned, I was banned because a Buddhist condescending personality named Tez (who gets chastised for being so by other users to this day) couldnt take my criticisms of his Buddhist beliefs and threatened to leave the site. Site Coordinator couldn't take the pressure and banned me. She also banned Bevdee (a nice person inspite of our conflicts who is probably badly missed by all there) and another user Free on the same day (who I believe has come back as Andii).

So thats it folks - the Site Coordinator (website owner) of the AllAboutCounseling.com website redirected one of the banned users to a Porn website. Yes its true but she knew I could never prove it happened since I dont care to record video screen evidence but this happened, as incredible and unbelievable it sounds.

First, thanks for the kind comment.

I agree, the APA will take a lot more work, and I am developing a long term cooperative plan for them. But as far as allaboutcounseling.com is concerned, they can be handled pretty easily by one man armed with the truth and the proper connections in the MRM community.

Allaboutcounseling.com will not be allowed to continue these abuses of the truth and of the people who come there seeking help.