more oppressed iranian women - Copy - Copy

The myth of patriarchal oppression in Iran

Note: This article is also available in French, Farsi, Swedish, Portuguese, Romanian and German.

From the second feminists started spawning their “patriarchy” baby, women’s issues in less-developed countries such as middle-eastern ones were presented as proof of “oppression of women as long as human beings have lived.” Western media and feminists in particular look at a society in a difficult condition and do not see people suffering; they see women suffering.

Western media and in fact eastern media’s handling of the state of affairs is one of adamantly illustrating women as slaves and cunningly displaying men as cruel slave owners. This of course has been only responded to, so far, by some people in these cultures who, in an effort to defend those cultures, usually come up with religious statements explaining the rights of women in Islam and Islamic philosophy, which causes some confusing problems. Among the more evident of the problems lies the question: What if somebody is not religious and does not choose to live with codes of Islamic philosophy?

Iran, for instance, seems to have the least religious people among middle-eastern countries. Rejection of long-ingrained religious doctrines invariably leads to less and less obligation. And for the many who dump religious doctrines, it seems like most are keen to consent to any criticism of the culture – even an unfair one. That is why, for many, the ridding of old cultural norms comes as a package deal with feminism. This is the perfect time for feminism to ride on a mind, repelled of the old restrictions.

However something is amiss here. Are those restrictions all on women? It is fascinating how from a nonreligious viewpoint, the western eyes have only been catching glimpses of some woman in misery while being completely indifferent to the large and ubiquitous pain of men. Feminists are quick to shout “patriarchy!” and others are quick to find faith in it and judge.

Today we pay a little visit to Iran, in hope of finding patriarchy in a highly misandric, feminist-infested culture. This view of Iranian women as oppressed by men, which has been the bread and butter of Western media and feminists, has been served to the public as a patriarchal feast.

Over the past few decades, eyes and ears were bombarded by the media about Iran’s patriarchy and the slavery of women. Unfortunately, that is a joke nobody is laughing at. Each feminist movie was rewarded by Western festivals and film awards up to a level where feminism is now an element of film-making for every director who is desperate for Western attention. Iranians were told billions of times about women’s issues, usually in a lying propagandist manner, and were fed the lies enough times that they actually started believing in them.

So, for any blue-pill readers out there, before your reflexive defensive outburst impairs your judgment and reduces you to a shrill screaming feminist or white knight, crying “women’s issues in Iran!”: let me clarify that I am the last person to discard some issues faced by some women in Iran. I do think some of those issues are legitimate causes about which something must be done. In fact, I wouldn’t discard the notion that any class of people might have some issues.

Having said that, if you bear several paragraphs and put aside the beliefs hammered into your head, you will see how the supposed “Patriarchy” has increased the Quality of Life of women much higher relative to that of most men. In fact, in this part of the world, infantilizing and spoiling women is done to a level possibly unmatched anywhere else. Bear in mind the fact that all the local media, operating under the guidance of their Western counterparts, along with Iranian feminism, are injecting a significant dose of misandry into this society.

We start by examining the basic rights of men and women in Iran, point out some forms of discrimination against both sexes–and then blow your mind about how the media is misrepresenting this whole matter. Although misandry can be easily spotted under the law, it can in no way express cultural norms and expectations of the gender roles which shoot this country right among the top misandric ones.

Keeping in mind that when moving one step away from the law and into the culture, misandry gets much more evident; this article only gives a fair examination of the laws and leaves the cultural misandry for other writings.

Some forms of discrimination against your average woman in Iran include the following.

  • In case there is no will documented by a deceased person and no agreement on the part of the deceased’s family members, the sons will receive twice as much inheritance as daughters.
  • Married women need their husband’s signature to get a passport.
  • Women must wear rousari (veil) when appearing in public and no, it is nothing like what they showed you on TV (if this is what you saw):

oppressive iranian patriarchs

This is what they actually look like when you walk the streets:

oppressed iranian women - Copy - Copy

more oppressed iranian women - Copy - Copy

Here are some forms of discrimination against men:

  • Conscription. All males are mandated to do at least two years of service in the military or armed forces. The conscription is not a draft that one may not attend in case there are enough volunteers. The time to join the forces is as soon as males come of age (18 years old) and is allowed to be postponed to after graduation, if they manage to get accepted in Iran’s university entrance exam system within a 1 year period. Unless their full time in the military is served, no adult male is allowed to leave the country, buy or sell anything in their names, get a license to work, use their university degree, etc. The punishment for not enrolling on time, aside from being reduced to a person with no rights, is that the person is to be taken into the military by force wherever he is spotted, with added service time. The mandate of the service is lifted in case a boy is confirmed to have severe disabilities or he is an only son in a fatherless household where he claims to be the provider.The law forbids women from the service, which is a bit different from what it sounds because it is not necessarily about military training per se. Many of the very important, highly dangerous jobs are done by soldiers. Doing extreme specialized and physical work in 120 Fahrenheit degrees in islands with no supply of fresh water (and void of any women), or in -22 Fahrenheit degrees, is a part of service. This especially poses a big problem on athletes. They have to shun their athletic careers for two years at the peak of fitness in their early twenties. Omid Noruzi for instance, the gold medal winner of the 2012 Olympics, was forced to leave his career and not compete in the 2008 Olympics, despite being qualified as he was the world champion in 2007, in order to join the military – which made him suicidal.
  • “Free” (paid by men) health insurance for women only. Should a single woman choose not to work, she will be covered under her parent’s medical insurance for life even after the death of her parents. Males are covered only up to the age of 21. Married women are automatically covered under their husband’s medical insurance plan (even after the death of the husband). Husbands, on the other hand, are not covered under the wife’s insurance plan if they find themselves out of job. This of course is in a country where medical costs are so unbelievably high that the government subsidizes insurance for medical care. Should an employed woman with her own insurance get fired or choose to leave her job; she will be covered automatically again under her live/deceased father/husband.
  • Pensions for women. Should a husband die, his occupational insurance (his highest salary per day multiplied by the years he worked) will be monthly paid to his wife as a salary for life, regardless of her being employed or not. No such law for men. Just FYI: occupational insurance is mandatory for all jobs.
  • Support for divorced women. Should a woman get divorced, in addition to what she gets out of her husband (called Mehrieh – this will be discussed in more detail in another article), her provider is considered to be her father and in case her father is dead, she will get from the government an equal share of her father’s occupational insurance as her salary for as long as she lives. This way, most divorced women do not have to work.
  • No compensation for surviving husbands. There is insurance for housewives who choose not to work so that after a certain age they will be paid a salary. The husband who pays for the insurance is not compensated in case of the woman’s death, but the woman’s siblings and parents will receive the lion’s share of the money the husband paid for.
  • Welfare for women. When it comes to the poor sectors of the society, any woman who claims not to have a providing father and husband and a state-paying job receives monthly paid wages from an association called Kommiteye Imdad that, aside from women of any age, only registers men who in addition to not having any sort of income are severely disabled or are aged.
  • Inheritance after divorce. If a woman divorces an ill husband who dies as a result of that illness within a year from the date of the divorce, his ex-wife still inherits as if they were never divorced.

Iran’s other marriage and divorce laws, as well as misandry in education,  are left for future articles.

Saddening is the fact that nobody even thinks about these issues – to which must be added some other conditions:

  • There are currently 1.7 million children laboring (ages 5 to 15), 92% of whom are boys.
  • 95% of children living in the streets are boys.[1] (Curiously enough this statistic was very hard to find because almost none of the sources concerning child labor mentioned the disparity between the sexes.)
  • Males make 85% of the homeless.[2] (Interestingly enough you will find that newspaper titles are: 15% of the homeless are women and address concerns regarding that, implying that the goal should be that 100% of the homeless are male. Also, numerous articles, investigations and organizations exist in regards to homeless women.)
  • 100% of battlefield deaths have been and will be men.
  • 100% of battlefield injuries are men.
  • 98.5% of workplace injuries in 2005 were men[3]. (In 2004, 2003 and 2002 respectively 98.5%, 98.7% and 98.7%)
  • 60% of rape victims are male[4] (excluding prison rapes).
  • Males also make up 81.7% of suicides.[5] (Interestingly, it is a piece of cake to find many media outlets openly lying that women have higher rates of suicide.)

This might give you a general idea for starters as to the state of affairs in Iran. But these so far only deal with discrimination under the law and not cultural standards to which men and women are held. The same cultural inclinations that create a society wherein 67% of university students are female, but most will not have jobs. This is not because they are discriminated against, as feminists will tell you, but because the majority won’t even fill out one job application form during a lifetime. University and jobs are hobbies and ego-boosters to many Iranian women.

There is a joke going around the country about how women mostly go to universities to have a diploma in their dowry! Their husbands are held responsible and should they not get married, the father is responsible.

Before I end, here is a typical effort of media at representing Iran as truly proof of gynocentrism rather than patriarchy[6]. This is actually one of the least misandric pieces I have read which does not explicitly attack men, rather it solely concentrates on women. That is why this article you are reading is not tackling the extreme, but rather the typical world we are living in:

The comparison between modern British girls and modern Iranian girls living less than 3,000 miles apart could hardly be more stark.

In Britain, a young woman can wear pretty clothes and makeup in public, talk on her mobile, smoke, go for a drink and have a boyfriend. If she gets pregnant, the state will look after her. If she commits a crime, the worst that can happen to her is imprisonment in a humanely run prison.

In Iran, she must cover her head at all times and may not wear makeup or do anything to display her femininity in public. She may not drink alcohol or associate with boys and if she gets caught, she will be flogged. If she gets caught having sex or gets pregnant outside marriage, she can be sentenced to death for adultery or moral crimes. If she commits murder or is involved in drug trafficking, she can expect to feel the hangman’s noose, perhaps in public. It is claimed by feminist and human rights groups that Iran is one big prison for women.”

Now let’s comment on this. Starting with the last sentence is nice to get the perspective of why to criticize:

It is claimed by feminist and human rights groups that Iran is one big prison for women.

There goes your typical gynocentrism; one big prison for women, but for men it is nothing but blow jobs every second of every day. That way it is also implied that men are the prison guards. Getting back to the beginning:

The comparison between modern British girls and modern Iranian girls living less than 3,000 miles apart could hardly be more stark. In Britain, a young woman can wear pretty clothes and makeup in public, talk on her mobile, smoke, go for a drink and have a boyfriend.

Except for the drink, a young woman does all of that in Iran.

In Iran, she must cover her head at all times and may not wear makeup or do anything to display her femininity in public.

Actually Iranian women are among the largest consumers of makeup in the world, along with Iran having the highest rate of nose jobs for women in the world, and being among the countries with highest rates of cosmetic surgery fr women. These exceedingly expensive nose jobs and other cosmetic surgeries are – as you guessed it – almost always paid for by men. Even most women in the rather poor sectors of society force their men to pay for cosmetic surgeries usually by exercising guilt trips and shaming. This article provides some insight into this:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/iran-blog/2013/mar/01/beauty-obsession-iran-cosmetic-surgery

Quoting from the article:

“…Iranian obsession with physical beauty. Far from focusing on internal spiritual values, young people – some aged 14 – are having cosmetic surgery in the hope of attaining “doll faces” to make them look like the actors they see in Hollywood films and satellite television programmes from the west.”

still more oppressed iranian women - Copy

Back to the gyno-minded article:

She may not drink alcohol…

Boys cannot drink alcohol either; it is illegal in Iran for anybody to drink. It is called prohibition, not oppression of women.

still more more oppressed iranian women - Copy (2)

or associate with boys and if she gets caught, she will be flogged.

She cannot associate with boys? She will be flogged? Really? Pffffffffftt. Victim mentality and propaganda is one thing but this is a new low, even for feminists.

Ask yourself, what kind of a lunatic tells these kinds of lies? Or worse, why did these liars have everybody convinced that there is a heinous patriarchy in Iran ripping women apart? Or worse, why have people believed them? Male-domination, my patriarchal ass – I assure you, articles won’t stop until this whole pathetic charade comes to light.

She cannot associate with boys? Iranian girls don’t have boyfriends? Pffftt and pfffft. Perhaps they also think that Iranian boys all have girlfriends. It must be nice to have no logic and be given a platform to dance on the truth. Their key to success is to conflate religionism with sexism. Much more to be said on this later.

If she gets caught having sex or gets pregnant outside marriage, she can be sentenced to death for adultery or moral crimes.

This is an outright lie which is constantly repeated all over the western media; here is the truth:

If a girl has consensual vaginal sex outside marriage in Iran, she can sue the boy and force him to marry her and she will be legally paid Mehrieh, which for now think of it as 150,000 US$. Trust your eyes; you read it right. This will be discussed in another article. Do not miss the upcoming article about Iran’s marriage and divorce laws and again how the media is presenting it.

If she commits murder or is involved in drug trafficking, she can expect to feel the hangman’s noose, perhaps in public.”

The rest of that article is dedicated to the death penalties of women over the past several decades, but wait a second.

Yes, hanging criminals in public does happen in Iran but here are some facts for you:

In 2012, 580 people were sentenced to death – some of whom were hanged in public. 9 were women, 571 were men.[7]

Actually, it is highly unlikely that Iranian judges make this kind of sentence for women. 76% of the aforementioned hanged cases were sentenced due to drug trafficking – only 3 of whom were women. The bias is too obvious to need further explanation.

Media’s distorted representations can be traced everywhere:

So Hitchens says and I quote: “You insult your sisters in Tehran who are being beaten and raped every day when you say they have rights.” When exposing feminist lies and propaganda you just know that rape would come up. Come to think of it, as rape is considered to be a crime of patriarchy; let us study rape statistics in Iran:

900 cases of rape were handled by the police last year in Iran. 60% of victims of rape were men, 40% were women.[8] This shocking fact hides inside it some cultural difficulties that Iranian men and boys face. Also chances of being raped in Iran is pretty much lower than most countries. Suffice it for now to say that in this supposed patriarchy, the punishment for rape is being hanged in public. Same goes for child molestation and being a gay man. Yes, a gay man, not a lesbian.

To sum up, the (western) Mainstream Media is a mess of gynocentrism and feminism. Gynocentric in that you might find 100 articles in English about the extremely few female taxi drivers in Iran, but not one article in any language about the 2076 male taxi drivers only in Tehran who are aged 71 to 80 (also 234 male taxi drivers in Tehran who are over 81)[9] who still work to provide for their thirty-some year old single daughters – daughters who are confused whether they have yoga class or English class today, whether they tell their boyfriends to get out of work early so as to give them a ride home, or if they should go shopping after class. Go figure.


[3] Mahmood Bakhtiyari, Ali Delpisheh, Sayyed Mohammad Riahi, Arman Latifi, Farid Zayeri, Masoud Salehi, Hamid Soori; “Epidemiology of occupational accidents among Iranian insured workers”; Safety Science 50; 2012

[4]Editorial note: after publication the original reference to this was questioned, so please see http://salamatnews.com/interview.aspx?ID=692, as well as the original reference that follows. –DE Original ref: http://ahar91.blogfa.com/category/4

About Ali Mehraspand

Ali Mehraspand is an Iranian engineer, published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. He is also a musician and an avid challenger of the garbage rhetoric around the sexes. He is the editor of AVfM-Farsi.

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  • Bewildered

    Thank you sir ! A very big THANK YOU.
    You have just delivered a big knock out punch to the know all arm chair pundits in the West.
    They are the modern day Don Quixotes.

    • http://www.ecalevolada.info/ tsubasalovelace

      The trick is building the case and proving it in an effective way. My take is that even in a culture that’s repressive to everybody, womyn-born-womyn privilege shines through (although I suppose I could save a few ys [expensive buggers] and just say women since somebody like me would have been hanged long ago over there). This is like arguing that the earth goes around the sun, not the other way around, and having feminists bash you upside the head at every point of your argument because you’d dare say that an astronomical body (the ground under your feet) that is often regarded as feminine isn’t the center of the universe.

  • justman

    Outstanding. This article will reverberate around the web.

  • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

    Ali, thanks for a simply outstanding article, which we’ll link to now. Perhaps the two videos I cite most are two about women’s positions in traditional societies such as Iran. One is by GirlWritesWhat, the other by a young Muslim woman, Zara Faris. Both are downloadable through this link:

    http://j4mb.wordpress.com/2013/06/28/girlwriteswhat-were-women-historically-oppressed-are-they-now-in-developing-countries/

    I look forward to your future articles.

    Mike Buchanan

    JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS
    (and the women who love them)

    http://j4mb.org.uk

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

    Wow. Just wow. Almost speechless here. I have been waiting for this article for years.

    Thank you.

  • Robert O’Hara

    Truly outstanding! Only at AVFM will you ever see something like this published. So proud to be a part of this!

  • Phil in Utah

    I remember in Marjane Satrapi’s Persepolis, she showed an incident from her adulthood where she was wearing makeup in the presence of Guardians of the Revolution (enforcers of the Ayatollah’s ideals, most of whom incidentally were women themselves), so she drew attention away from herself by telling a soldier that a random man on the streets had been making obscene remarks at her. The soldiers accosted him, and of course he protested. “I swear on the Qur’an, on my family’s name, on my mother’s grave, that I did no such thing!” She merely had to say “You dare look me in the face and lie to me?” and he was carted off. The poor man was probably executed later. All so that she could get away with wearing makeup in public.

    And Satrapi STILL subscribes to Patriarchy Theory.

    • Bewildered

      How can you forget your benefactor?

  • http://menaregood.com Tom Golden

    Wow. What an article. The plight of men and boys goes invisible in yet another country. But it seems especially invisible in Iran. What privilege the women get. Damn. How could feminists ever try to spin that? This is hard to believe.

    Paul, maybe we should use this article as the intro for Iran on the misandry map?

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Agreed, Tom. I was going to email you about that today. :)

  • http://vilo13.blogspot.com/ Lucian Vâlsan

    I knew like 50-60% of the things said here. But the one with 80+ year old taxi drivers and the one with 60% of rape victims being men is shocking even to me – and I am a person that can hardly be shocked by anything.

    THIS will go straight into the translation team. Spanish, Romanian, German, Swedish, Italian… you name it. This must be translated in as many languages as possible.

    Thank you for the article and especially for the links!

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      “THIS will go straight into the translation team. Spanish, Romanian, German, Swedish, Italian”

      THIS is why Lucian Valsan has commanded my respect from the day he signed on with AVFM.

      Thank you Lucian. Please send me links in the time ahead to wherever these run and we will make sure they all get included in the Misandry Map for Iran.

    • Ali Mehraspand

      It is a great pleasure to have the likes of Lucian in here.

    • Bench

      If translation work to Swedish is needed, or just proofreading, I would happily oblige.

  • Nightmist

    A big warm, hearty thank you sir. I just signed up to leave this comment, even though I have been following the site for almost a year and a half.

    I’m from Turkey. I live in Turkey and this is the only place I’ve ever been. I don’t know how you folks see us here but I don’t care anyway. Turkey is not as bad as the average Middle Eastern country you see most days, but its still a shitty country. All those things written in the article above and many more happen here as well. You know well how the media portray the Eastern world. Some are lies, some are the truth. But you know how it feels when nobody see you suffering. Having an invisible pain to others. And know this as well: Women in the Middle-Eastern countries like Iran, Turkey, and such, do have bad lives. They do have problems. But the men here, have it maybe ten times worse. You know how it feels to be ignored. Just think about how invisible our suffering here. With all the fuss about poor women in the third world countries. And think about how poor men are. And trust me on this, as a fellow man, this is the truth.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Welcome, sir. Thank you for speaking up. I hope you will consider putting together an article that will help educate our readers on the lives of men in Turkey.

      We would love to have it here.

    • http://vilo13.blogspot.com/ Lucian Vâlsan

      Turkey is a country that has been fascinating me for a while.
      And, of course, as a Romanian and given our common history as peoples with the Turks (google Ștefan cel Mare/Stephen the Great) – I learned more about the Turkish culture than your average Joe.

      I visited Turkey more than once and I have never seen where that Patriarchy is, really.
      Moreover, I recently had a trainer from Turkey coming here in Cluj Napoca to teach at a project in which I was involved (long story). She was no different than your average Romanian or Italian girl. She did not seem oppressed to me at all (She was from Izmir). Several folks around the project who bought all the Western Media stereotypes were surprised to hear that most of what the media says is simply bullocks.

      Anyway, please send me an e-mail at lucian@avoiceformen.com – I want to ask you some more things and I would appreciate if you could translate some things for me, since I cannot compete with Turkish other than the common words/phrases that exist in Turkish-influenced languages (Bulgarian, Romanian, Hungarian and Serbian).

      Cheers!

      P.S.: And, to reiterate Paul’s point, we would really appreciate an article like this about Turkey as well. I can help you write it if you want. Think about it.

    • Stu

      Where ever women have it bad, men have it worse. This is the way it has always been. It is men that lift us out of the caves and to the moon and beyond. It is men that have provided the advancements that we all enjoy, and men mostly do it, to be better providers and protectors of women and children. So women always get the best seat…….and if that seat is a shit seat……you can bet your arse the men are sitting on boards of nails.

      • Bewildered

        ….and if that seat is a shit seat……you can bet your arse the men are sitting on boards of nails.

        This is something that the western bleeding/wannabe bleeding hearts are willfully ignorant about.
        As they keep fudging the truth their stupidity keeps scaling greater heights of buffoonery.

  • Alessandro

    In Saudi Arabia, the female journalist Rozanna al Yami invited a man to talk about sex on television. She got sentenced to 60 lashes. Western newspapers went wild for this offence, until the king granted her the pardon.
    Nobody cared of the man: he got 1000 lashes and 5 years of jail, with no grace.

    This is just one example: often all media storms about sentenced women in Islamic countries hide that men got more severe sentences.

    Furthemore, Western media falsely reported that the Iranian woman Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani was sentenced to death for adultery. The truth is that she killed her husband. This is why feminists like her

  • napocapo69

    This is one of the most important article so far, IMHO.

    well done

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/Razlo5000?feature=mhum Raz

    How do you translate these sources?
    All of these citations take you to iranian websites.
    Thanks.
    ~Raz
    MR-E

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      I fail to see why anyone would downvote this comment. WTF?

      Edit: Raz, Google translator will convert these to English in Chrome. It is a bit rough, but readable.

      • Fredrik

        Perhaps someone confused Men’s Rights – Edmonton with Rockin’ Mr. E. (One of several masculinists who took a disappointing anti-MGTOW turn some months back, for those who don’t follow community drama.)

    • Ali Mehraspand

      Since most sources are in Persian (farsi) I owe it to translate parts from which the statistics are taken. So here we go for each source (numbered according to the articles):
      1. This source (published in vista news) is a long survey on child labor. Under statistics/Iran paragraph 7 is written:
      According to the researches done by professor Seyed Hasan Hosseini of the Tehran university with the aid of the University of Welfare and Rehabilitation, 95% of the children living in the streets are boys.
      2. First paragraph of this source:
      The chief of the city hall’s welfare and social services has declared: almost 15% of the homeless in Tehran are women.
      3. It is a peer-reviewed paper in English (published in the prestigious Safety Science magazine of Elsevier). See the figures and the number of injured men and women for yourself.
      4. There is also a more well-known news source for this:
      http://salamatnews.com/interview.aspx?ID=692
      The first line reads: 60% of rape victims have been male. 900 cases have been investigated last year. It continues to point that this statistic has been officially announced by the chief of Iran’s disciplinary forces (police).
      5. Paragraph 2: According to Isna news, the proportion of male/female suicide is 5.2 to 5.4 male suicides for each female suicide.
      6. This is in English.
      7. Iran’s Human rights report on executions in Iran: In paragraph 2 it is written:
      “At least 580 executions occurred in 2012” (it is written at least because they suspect that there might be unknown prisoners who are executed). In paragraph 4:
      The aforementioned organization (Iran’s Human Rights Organiation) announced that at least 9 women were executed in Iran. Again the at least part is not for the 580 known executions but for suspected executions of unknown prisoners.
      8. Same as 4.
      9. Look at the table.

  • http://gynocentrism.com/2013/07/14/about/ Peter Wright (Tawil)

    Thank you for the poignant examples of sexism against men and the pernicious influences of feminism in Iran – this article has shined a spotlight on the facts that feminists in the West have hidden.

    I have long suspected the patriarchal strongholds painted by feminists were mirages. Iran, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Mongolia, etc. when you look closely at the responsibilities of the sexes in these countries it becomes apparent that women are much more priviliged than the men.

    And y’now I have to ask with all the hate and propaganda, are feminists Islamaphobes? Are they unconsciously perpetuating the crusade against people they believe are “heathen”? If yes then feminists have a fight on their hands, as the MHRM places the humanity of men above religious differences, and as always we will fight against bigotry.

    I hope we get to read many more articles by Ali Mehraspand about men and women in Iranian culture.

    • Ali Mehraspand

      “And y’now I have to ask with all the hate and propaganda, are feminists Islamaphobes? Are they unconsciously perpetuating the crusade against people they believe are “heathen”?”

      Well Peter, many Iranian feminists are not a big fan of Islam but not all of them. That is only because this trend (distancing from Islam) is very popular in the youth now. Like all other feminists, they only can see half the picture (half at best). Ironically though, they are fanatics about Islamic laws that restrict men and put a great deal of power over men in the hands of women like Mehrieh, Nafaghe, etc and will fight tooth and nail to make sure these laws stay forever. That is why you probably have never heard of these laws. I wanted to touch on many more issues but didn’t want the article to become too long. There is really a need for part 2 on this article.

    • Fredrik

      “And y’now I have to ask with all the hate and propaganda, are feminists Islamaphobes? Are they unconsciously perpetuating the crusade against people they believe are “heathen”? If yes then feminists have a fight on their hands, as the MHRM places the humanity of men above religious differences, and as always we will fight against bigotry.”

      Of course, the feminist establishment is upper- and middle-class white women, who moved out into the exurbs out of fear following 9/11, and fully endorsed the expansion of the retaliation against Bin Laden into an open-ended war on terror Muslims. Lest we forget: their hero, Hillary Clinton, voted for the AUMF. And yeah, my loyalty is with my brothers suffering injustice, regardless of nationality, ethnicity or religion.

  • http://www.hermitparkclinic.com.au Greg Canning

    Thank you Ali , a real myth buster of an article, looking forward to more details on the situation in Iran.

  • gwallan

    Over recent years Australia has been recruiting medical specialists from overseas. I currently have about thirty Iranian doctors as tax clients. Half of them are women.

    • http://gynocentrism.com/2013/07/14/about/ Peter Wright (Tawil)

      I have a female Iranian doctor working in my country town – poor oppressed souls not being allowed to study or have a career (according to feminists).

      I’d love to see an article by Ali Mehraspand about education in Iran.

      • Ali Mehraspand

        Count on it!

  • Phorcydes

    Thank-you brother Ali.

    I would like to say that I am surprised or shocked, but I am not. Over the years, my cynicism of the media and many of those in society who choose to live in denial has multiplied exponentially – regardless of location. Your insight and factual article is an eye-opener and exposes the media’s false and grotesque bias of life in Iran for both men and women. Good works.
    Peace.

  • Stu

    I used to chat to an Iranian swinging couple in Tehran. They assured me that plenty of women have lots of unmarried sex in Iran, and there is plenty of drinking as well. She also told me that women are pretty much dressing how they want in Iran now. What used to be a veil is now often just a pretty colored strip which barely covers the back of the head, often on a tarted up hottie who looks like she is taking to the streets with her red light and price list.

    The moral police pretty much have no teeth when it comes to policing women’s dress codes. She told me that her, and all her friends, wear makeup, high heels, tight jeans, tights, jewelry, etc. Getting harrassed by the police is rare, and when it happens, most of the woman just tell them to go fuck themselves.

    • Robert O'Hara

      This is what the moral police do to gay men in Iran:

      The vid states that lesbians face a death sentence too but I don’t see any female bodies hanging here.

      • Ali Mehraspand

        Nope, no death sentence for lesbians. I wanna say see this reference but it is in Persian:
        http://www.radiozamaneh.com/52003
        Even years ago when there could have been a death sentence for lesbians, this was how the law worked:
        In case a woman was accused of sleeping with another woman, she had to be proven guilty and set free until she did it again. After four times of being proven guilty, the law allowed a maximum sentence of death. That is why I have never heard of a lesbian being executed. The new law does not allow a death sentence for lesbians, but not much has changed for gay men.

    • Ali Mehraspand

      @Stu
      You will be amazed to see the fashion in Iranian streets, women wear much more makeup than your average American girl. And about the moral police? Firstly, you would rarely see any moral police and secondly, Aside from the fact that they do not have much teeth and aside from the fact that it is usually women moral polices that handle girls, and aside from the fact that the worst thing the moral police can do is to call the girl’s family to bring the girl more appropriate clothes, and aside from the many men that jump in to defend girls in these situations which really has intimidated the moral police in such a way that they usually do not show their faces in public, the moral police is not for girls only. Not only do boys have dressing codes, but when it comes to couples, the moral police usually tries to deal with boys, especially if their purpose is bribery.

  • Seele

    A much appreciated article, thank you Ali.

    This also demonstrates that the “outside world” – for want of a better term – has a greatly distorted view of other countries. It’s just too easy to paint all supposedly “Islamic countries” with the same broad brush, thinking that when given the rare chance to leave the house, all women have to be in black one-person mobile tents, etc. Islam is not an indigenous invention in Iran, but an import (the indigenous faith there is Zoroastrianism) and the people are not Arab but Persian. This kind of vague generalization can be exploited- and often exploited – by those with ulterior motives or at least misguided fervor.

    (Come to think of it, plenty of people are convinced that there are countless kangaroos bouncing around in Sydney city centre, and we are always at the danger of getting swallowed whole by snakes.)

    While the 60/40 male/female rape victim split is worth further investigation, it would also be interesting to see the legal definition of rape there. I would not be at all surprised that it would only count as rape if the perpetrator is male and involves penile penetration only, and that “you stoopid menz; wimim can’t rape” situation applies.

    This might also have something to do with the difference in how male and female homosexuality is seen and dealt with. I feel sure that one’s sexual preference does not automatically mean having sex physically with people one prefers: say for instance there must be straight men who are celibate. But that is not how most people see it. For straight people – which constitute the majority, I think – male homosexuals are seen to be icky as they are automatically presumed do penetration, but female homosexuals are not icky as they are expected to do none, due to anatomical differences. It’s easier to be tough on the icky ones, and give free passes to the non-icky ones.

    • Ali Mehraspand

      ” It’s just too easy to paint all supposedly “Islamic countries” with the same broad brush, thinking that when given the rare chance to leave the house, all women have to be in black one-person mobile tents, etc.” Seele.

      In Iran, women leave the house every day, on their own. Streets are filled with unmarried couples. Women wear very sexy dresses. The majority of Iranian girls do have unmarried sex. Except for presidency, women can have any political seat, like the vice presidency.

      Also you asked about the definition of rape? Yes, exactly. It only can be perpetrated by men. Even when a while ago a video clip came out in which a fourty-some year old woman had forced a 6-year-old to penetrate her, it was not considered rape.

      You are right about the confusion of most people about Iranian’s racial origin and that they think Iranians have Arabic origins. Iranians are Aryans in their race and speak Persian, not Arabic.

      • http://vilo13.blogspot.com/ Lucian Vâlsan

        Ali, one day, when you will have time, please tell us how are the things in the rural areas. Are they different from the metropolitan areas? (and if yes, how different) I imagine they are (as it is the case with almost any country.

        Thank you in advance.

        • Ali Mehraspand

          Very apt question Lucian. It actually is my intent to write about that, because the realities that you just asked for and the observation of rural and less developed areas will lead to really interesting conclusions.

        • Astrokid

          Lucian,
          I just watched a 1+hr documentary related to this subject.. no 3rd person Narration in the documentary, its “In Their Own Words” type, so you will only see the men and women talking.
          Four Wives and One Husband – Polygamy in Iran – Documentary , on a rural 50yr man who has over time married 4 women, and has 20 children. Its a long doc, but 10mins of watching will throw some light.

          Since its a rural area, as you can imagine life is tough and the women are largely looking for a provider in marriage. 2 of the women he marries are already divorcees, and there apparently is a stigma in marrying a divorcee.. and hence those women were looking for someone to bail them out as a provider.

          It starts with the Old Mom saying “My son loves pussy” LOL. As you may imagine, life is tough for all the wives.. squabbling over resources et al.. and he also struggles to provide for them. And they ALL have regrets over their lives.
          One thing that stands out is the agency of the women, in that they choose him for marriage and it couldnt have happened without their volition. And he exercises control over them, getting physical at times.

      • Astrokid

        Ali,
        I enjoyed reading your article, and not much of it surprised me. I am an Indian living in the US now, and the pattern of gender issues you describe in the article AND the comments, is similar to how it is in India over the last 4 decades.

        4 decades ago in India, people lived in JOINT families (i.e 3 generations living together) out of necessity, coz there wasnt enough wealth to strike out as nuclear families etc. This meant there were several disputes between the individuals in the large families, but they had to adjust coz they needed each other to make ends meet. Women dressed modestly, and also worked in whatever way they could to contribute to the family. As the Nation underwent reforms towards free markets and more capitalism generated wealth by 80s and 90s for MANY middle class families, joint families started waning, nuclear families grew and had more money to spend. Vanity, materialism grew a lot.
        This Western documentary about 1996 Iran, with a women’s-issues-slant reminds me of those times.
        1996 Iranian Women: Are They Covering Up?

        In India, upper and middle-class Women’s clothes are getting skimpier today. Of course, the lower classes dont get a share of the wealth, and continue to struggle. Feminism came by, largely pointed to the struggle of lower class women, painted it as representative of all women, and now enjoy more protections. Of course they ignore all the benefits traditional society bestows on women. Iran sounds similar.
        For e.g in this BBC program, they point to the Divorced woman not getting custody of child (which follows Marriage 1.0 rules), and point to it as a grave women’s issue… while this is the routine state of Fathers here in the US now (as per rules of Marriage 2.0) !
        Feminist Movement in Iran and Persecution of the Activists

        You say:

        In Iran, women leave the house every day, on their own. Streets are filled with unmarried couples. Women wear very sexy dresses. The majority of Iranian girls do have unmarried sex. Except for presidency, women can have any political seat, like the vice presidency.

        I couldnt believe the bolded portion. Turns out that even that is true for the wealthier people in Teheran at least, from this BBC documentary.
        Behind the Rhetoric: The Real Iran | BBC Documentary
        Its a 90-min documentary.. from 27:00 to 34:30 a young woman photographer talks about her experiences living in Tehran, and takes us on a journey through the malls, talk to young women who have gotten nose jobs LOL

    • Fredrik

      What a relief! It is good to know that you don’t have to worry about kangaroos or snakes in the city center, so you can focus on dodging the drop bears. ;)

      • gwallan

        We don’t have too much trouble with any of those beasties these days. The spiders have eaten most of them.

    • JGteMolder

      More like; as gay men you can’t possibly be a tool for women. You elevate yourself up and over your betters; and that’s a no-no.

  • http://menaregood.com Tom Golden

    Thanks for this article Ali. Great stuff. I do have a couple of questions. 1) is it common knowledge that males are raped more often than females? and 2) do you have rape crisis services in Iran and are they mandated to help men and women? thanks.

    • Ali Mehraspand

      You are most welcome Tom. About the questions:
      1) is it common knowledge that males are raped more often than females?
      No according to the chief of Iran’s disciplinary forces.
      2) do you have rape crisis services in Iran and are they mandated to help men and women?
      No, sadly there is no rape crisis services.

  • Mickster66

    Great article, looking forward to more on this.

  • Chibiabos

    Don’t forget to add it to the MAP!

  • Jay

    Superb perspective showing the gynocentric nature of Iran. People fail to realise that in the middle east in general, women are looked after. They are loved like children – looked after, spoiled, not required to do any work, yet somehow they are being “oppressed”. There is a clear difference between being looked after and being oppressed. Otherwise, we here in the west, should be carrying on how our children are oppressed and and worthless – they cannot even vote – see, that’s the proof!

    • colin

      So in your mind there is no difference between children and adult women, and this is an appropriate way to treat people?

      • Marc Dumoi

        He is saying that the way they are treated and cared for is like they are children, which is gynocentric. If you believe in gynocentricity, like feminists do, than you believe in treating women like children. So to answer your question for jay, no. You just chose to look at it in an utterly fallacious way.

  • lula69

    OK, that does it! I get it now. Everything you thought was right is wrong. That is, what I thought for 35 years, what the left told me (because I only listened to them). This weekend I learned that even global warming and all the fuzz that the UN bureaucracy made about that in Agenda 21 was hysteria.[1] Once you get the wiff of it you smell the shit everywhere.

    Thank you so much, Paul, for bringing this to our attention and for taking the pain of going into the sources to bring us truth!

    I now know that we need to up our ante in this game. Seriously. We have been playing it muffled for too long. Warren Farrell, our father in this struggle, blessed be his spirit, he was always so nice. And many nice people with him. Our rhetoric has always started to say how feminism was right in addressing some issues in the past or in other countries, etc. but it’s all bullshit. All of it.

    I recommend to anyone who has not read it to read Esther Vilar, The Manipulated Man. She said it very well and very bluntly. The origin of feminism.

    You name me any subject, and I debunk it for you. I have never seen one of the feminist myth that could not be debunked in only a few hours research on the internet. Another example, related: there is this idea of “femicide” in (1) selective abortion in China and India and (2) honor killings. Honor killings I debunked in 3 hours research using German data from the Turkish population while I only had modem speed Internet sitting in Brazil. The “femicide” issue in China was already explained by Karen Straughan, and it works for India even more.

    We need to up the ante. Not apologize any more. We need to be blunt up front and debunk every single lie that the feminists created and that people around us believe. No more driving a soft line, no more giving credit to any single bit of the feminist complaint. It didn’t work that way. The truth is far more radical than even the majority of MRAs.

    Always remember: The other man is you! [2]

    [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html
    [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En9qPSqNC8k

    • Greb

      With regard to the global warming stuff: nope, global warming is not 100% sure, but this artic cooling doesn’t change anything.

      In most of non linear systems, any sudden change causes two reactions in the system. One of them is the permanent change. The other one, a short-term temporal function, called “transient” and, according to the system characteristics, can cause either a sweet change or crazy oscillations.

      http://www.contaminant-ingress.co.uk/images/TransientSchematic2.png

      That’s the reason why, for example, if you turn off a electric machine, power consumption can increase just after you turn it off (same happens when you turn it on). Indeed, that’s the reason why electric protections have some ‘flexibility’ before cutting off the power. Otherwise, power would go off everytime you start a machine.

      Nobody knows exactly what are the equations that control climate change. But big oscillations? That’s very likely a symptom that climate is indeed changing.

  • tallwheel

    With all those economic safety nets in place, I can hardly understand why any Iranian woman would choose to work. Sounds like it is literally a choice, and there is no woman in Iran who understands the concept of having to work in order to have food/shelter. The universities, to women, must be little more than glorified finishing schools/matchmaking services.

    • http://gynocentrism.com/2013/07/14/about/ Peter Wright (Tawil)

      “Sounds like [work] is literally a choice, and there is no woman in Iran who understands the concept of having to work in order to have food/shelter. ”

      The most common problems Iranian women face could be Maslow problems. :-)

  • Astrokid

    Over the past few decades, eyes and ears were bombarded by the media about Iran’s patriarchy and the slavery of women. Unfortunately, that is a joke nobody is laughing at. Each feminist movie was rewarded by Western festivals and film awards up to a level where feminism is now an element of film-making for every director who is desperate for Western attention. Iranians were told billions of times about women’s issues, usually in a lying propagandist manner, and were fed the lies enough times that they actually started believing in them.

    Ali
    1) Can you provide some references for these movies? I assume they were in English. I would like to watch them.

    2) The imbalanced laws you mention are all the pre-feminist Islamic-heritage based laws right?
    Or are you saying that some of them are feminist inspired laws made recently like elsewhere? for e.g India has recent feminist-inspired laws.. notably Dowry Harassment Law 498A in 1983, and them Domestic Violence Laws in 2005 etc

    3) Re: Hitchens.. Most of the Atheist leaders have Religious Scripture as the basis of their worldview of Middle East as hell-for-women. Sure they may be further influenced by Media propaganda, but Religious Scripture is the basis. Now, I havent read Hitch’s books to say this definitely about him, but I have spent enough time in the Atheist community to see this. I have tried to engage them on this, without any luck. for e.g
    God Hates Women: Christianity, Islam, and the Inherent Denigration of Women in Scripture

    This is identical to their jaundiced view of Western history.. in that they see Historical Oppression of women based on whats written in Christian Scripture. They are not going to make an attempt to understand WHY the rules were like that, or how there was an other side to the coin where men were similarly “discriminated”.
    They cant imagine that women have agency, and WANT a different role depending on economy, differences in sexes, etc. for e.g
    1) Vast majority of Saudi women WANT Driving ban. Sam Harris blames it on Islamic Oppression of Wimminz

    2) Richard Dawkins buys into Dubai Rape Case Hysteria asap, not willing to wait for further evidence. Later evidence of the woman’s OWN agency in the affair DID crop up.

    • Ali Mehraspand

      “Can you provide some references for these movies? I assume they were in English.” Astrokid.

      They are in Persian, but you might find English subtitles.

      “The imbalanced laws you mention are all the pre-feminist Islamic-heritage based laws right?” Astrokid.

      Exactly, the state follows Islamic laws. I didn’t even bring up the most misandric of all laws, it is going to open a whole can of worms in another article.

  • donzaloog

    Holy shit. This is a catastrophe. What happens if a man refuses to get married? Because I know I wouldn’t get married or even associate with any woman in a country like that. That place sounds like hell on Earth.

    • Stu

      You eventually get accused of being gay, and they hang you.

      • donzaloog

        I figured as much. I’d serve my minimum time in the military then get the fuck out of that country or I’d kill myself. What other choice is there?

      • Lee McKinnis

        source?

    • Lee McKinnis

      They force you to get married. As in your family and whatnot do so. I know Arabs set the limit at 30, I dunno about Persians given the urban/rural divide and age of marriage rising esp in urban areas.

  • http://kevin-wayne.blogspot.com Kevin

    This ties in to 3 questions I’ve developed in regards to Women, Men & history, in order to suss out how well does Patriarchy Theory hold up:

    http://underthegoddess.blogspot.com/2013/11/3-basic-questions-to-ask-about-women.html

    Comments & suggestions welcome.

  • Sanguifer

    Okay, so Google Translation is extremely shaky and pretty much useless.

    However….

    “60 percent of male rape statistics
    According to the police chief, about 40 percent of women and 60% of homosexual rape statistics which usually occurs against people under 15 years of deception.”

    The word “homosexual” maxes me wonder here.

    What, exactly, is this statistic about? ’cause it could either be “when it comes to homosexual rape, 40% of victims are women, 60% are men” OR “when it comes to rape in general, 40% of victims are women, and 60% of victims are homosexual men”.

    Clarification please.

    • Ali Mehraspand

      60% of rape victims are men, These men can be heterosexual or homosexual.

      • Sanguifer

        Not very helpful.

        I’ll look around for someone who can actually translate that paragraph, or at least the relevant bit.

        See, I have every reason to suspect that there’s a load of false rape accusations in there, which would inflate the statistic. As You said Yourself, being a homosexual male is a hanging offense. Being a victim of homosexual rape, presumably, is not (necessarily). Logical conclusion: It’s better to accuse of rape (1 person hanged) than admit to consensual homosexual sex (2 people hanged).

        There’s one thing that virtually every MRA I’ve ever listened to has always drove home as hard as possible: Question cited statistics. So that’s what I do – including statistics provided by MRAs.

        You provide one that does not fit the common narrative, but is not verifiable to most readers, and the one way to actually do some preliminary fact checking returns a result that makes me question the relevance of said statistics. When I ask for a clarification, You just repeat what You said in the article. That is not a clarification. I hope You see the problem I am having with this.

        And I’m sympathetic to the cause. Imagine what fun feminists might have with that.

        • Ali Mehraspand

          “The word “homosexual” maxes me wonder here.” Sanguifer.
          ” I’ll look around for someone who can actually translate that paragraph, or at least the relevant bit.” Sanguifer.

          I think you mean the third paragraph of this source:
          http://ahar91.blogfa.com/category/4

          Here is the translation:
          According to the chief of Naja, 900 cases of rape were recorded last year. Almost 40% of this statistic relate to female (victims) and 60% of it is male rape (sodomy) which is usually perpetrated against victims under 15.

          Also the other link http://salamatnews.com/interview.aspx?ID=692:
          Also it is printed in Shargh newspaper, no. 1542 date : 5/30/2012, page 19:
          Title: The chief of Naja announced: 900 cases of rape recorded, 60% of victims are male.

  • Mike Brentnall

    Good news.

    A socially aware man writing on comparative relations regarding the sexes in the Middle East. But minus the repressive feminist veil.

    Am very much appreciative of finally reading an article offering much insight into another culture. Iran, this time. Yet another writer ‘manning-up’ in his own social environment.

    Both Muslim and non-Muslim men alike, those concerned with legitimate men’s issues, are closer to bridge a far better understanding of each other because of this essay. We have far more in common as men than one could have previously imagined. This has been a good day. Thank you Ali for writing.

    From the second feminists started spawning their “patriarchy” baby, women’s issues in less-developed countries such as middle-eastern ones were presented as proof of “oppression of women as long as human beings have lived.”
    Physically invading a nation over oil would have been enough but now cultural interventions involving bankrupt social-sexual policies looms to strike even harder below the belt. Such a non-productive tax payer subsidized export from North America. Feminists got it wrong over here in the West as the truer condition of their ms-represented issues are coming back to haunt them through facts. Since feminism has consistently been proven wrong right in their very own misunderstood cultural domain none of them have any geopolitical business meddling further into areas they know even less about. Mother-in-law jokes aside, this, feminism, is the mother of all uninvited interference.

    Looking forward to more reporting from you, Ali.

  • http://freedomphilosophy.tv John

    Patriarchal oppression is and has always been primarily about dominant males oppressing other males. I believe it arise from biological male-male competition. Islamic culture is an excellent example of such male on male oppression.

  • Turbo

    Fantastic piece Ali.

    You have laid to waste so many of the myths that western media has been sprouting for ever..
    Really looking forward to reading more from you.

  • Glenn Donovan

    Ali, thanks for this article – it’s fantastic and so necessary. Can you also comment on the use of teen boys as human minesweepers during the Iran-Iraq war? There is no clearer example of male disposability than that, in my mind.

    I do have some thoughts about this article.

    1. Tehran is very different from rural areas of Iran, you say you will do an article on it, I”m looking forward to it. Iran has a more western society due to the pre-Islamic govt. being much more connected to the west.

    2. Hitchens – He traveled to Iran and kept close contacts there. I’m not going to argue with you but he was different from many western journalists in that he went to the places he talked about. I think he also may have been referring to the first 15 years of the Islamic Republic. The political imprisonments and the abuses in those jails were horrifying. I’ve read accounts by Iranian regugees who claim rape was used as punishment of women, to shame them and to apply leverage to male members of families. Comments?

    3. Sharia law – Are you a supporter of a society being governed by Mullahs and Sharia?

    Thanks for this, it’s info we simply never get in the west. I also think we’ve been sold a demonization of Iran in our politics to cover up for the coup we sponsored in ’53, our backing of the Shah and the Savak and our helping Saddam Hussein launch the largest chemical weapons attack since WWI against the Iranians. The Iranians were about to win the war against Saddam, we didn’t want him to win, we wanted the standoff to continue, so we gave him satellite imagery of all Iranian troop locations and stood back while he slaughtered tens of thousands of Iranians.

    Most Americans have bought the view of Iran as the “madman” of the region but in fact it is nothing of the sort. Any person who was born and raised in Iran would see the U.S. as its enemy due to what the U.S. has done to Iran – their attack of our embassy in ’79 was due to U.S. provocations, not irrational bloodlust and hatred of the west.. Today we overfly their borders regularly, have covert ops there, have assassinated their scientists, encircle them with our military and until just now cripple their economy with horrific economic sanctions..

    Then there is our support of Israel, which again, most Americans simply know nothing about. Iranians feel a solidarity with other Muslims and the colonial oppression of the Arab Muslims living in Palestine by the Zionists is ignored by Americans.- which again, makes us seem immoral to them.

    All of this is part of the context of why Americans are so willing to see Iran as evil – but if you know the facts it’s our hands that are bloodstained, yet you’ll rarely hear an American acknowledge this. Even this commentary will probably have me called a terrorist sympathizer or leftist or something. Just to be clear, I’m anti-Islamist and anti-Zionist – both are religious supremacist ideologies. I think the U.S. should retreat form the mid-east and just buy oil from whomever will sell it to us. I’m a non-Ron Paul supporting libertarian, and was a conservative Republican for most of my life until I woke up after 9/11. – hopefully these facts will ward off the inevitable slurs of anti-semitism and terrorist supporter that almost always follow when I lay out facts like this.

    We are programmed to hate Iran and will grab onto the memes handed to us by feminist/leftist driven critiques of them. In a way this has gotten worse under Obama as Clinton/Rice/Powers have made the “rights of women” a central aspect of our foreign policy, imposing the radfem nonsense around the world. It’s arrogant and against our interests, but they believe they are morally superior. so they just do what they want…

    • Ali Mehraspand

      That was a very insightful comment. It reflected the ability of a man to see through what he is told.
      1. “Can you also comment on the use of teen boys as human minesweepers during the Iran-Iraq war?”
      Absolutely yes. In the war, many men a lot of whom were only teenage boys would go in to a mined area to secure it for others to follow. We also had 13-year-old boys who attached many grenades to themselves and threw themselves under moving tanks to stop them. That is male disposability right there.
      2. Tehran is very different from rural areas of Iran, you say you will do an article on it, I”m looking forward to it.
      That would be my third article. I have been to many rural areas. I save the clarifications for that article.
      3. I do not have anything against Hitchens except the fact that his comment on rape was insulting to men.
      4. Are you a supporter of a society being governed by Mullahs and Sharia?
      Certainly NOT. But wait for the revealing of the many distortions around Sharia laws and of course the other half of these laws that you were never told.

    • captive

      There’s a reason that extremely pro-feminist organizations consistently support organizations like Hamas and Iran and other anti-Semitic regimes. The Guardian U.K. newspaper is both in love with feminists and yet requires them to keep their mouths shut about Islam – no matter how many men, women and children Islamic terrorists murder. It’s all part of the “white men are always the chief villain in the world” propaganda. Ashkenazi and Russian Jews are white, and probably around half of them are male. Islam is a temporary ally to help ensure that white men are crushed under foot by the left due to their racism and sexism. Unfortunately, it’s questionable whether the left is going to enjoy living under Islam given that it is about 20 times more conservative than medieval Catholicism.

  • http://kalishivarising.blogspot.com/ Vivica Liqueur

    Thank you so much for this article! I have seen people on facebook posting photos of women in a Burka saying that this is the reason feminism is needed. Which if a woman chooses to wear a Burka that is her choice and her religion. There are countries debating making the Burka illegal which is insane. The hypocrisy is that such countries say that women should have a right to wear what they want….so…you’re making a Burka illegal, telling a woman she cannot wear what she wishes….so she has the ‘freedom’ to wear what she wishes??

    I had watched Girl Writes What and was explaining to them from this how the women were very privileged and how men’s lives were at risk in this very system. The rebuttal was that women were forced to wear the Burka. That was the rebuttal. I was then told I was-yet again, and feminists use this stupid line every time-ignoring slavery and insulting women and him. Wha? Um…I’m a woman. Hello? Does my voice only count if I’m a victim??? To feminists- yes.

    I watched the video linked and that was horrendous! The woman saying she is not oppressed and the white knight telling her she was!! Horrible! Seeing these photos you shared brings new light into the conversation of women and men in Iran for sure! It’s amazing how ignorant we are in this country of how Iran operates but feminists feel they know so much and enough to jump in and stir up the pot because they are stuck on photos of women in a Burka and enraged by this.

  • djbecker69

    Very interesting article. I have a few questions. If there is so much inequality for men, who makes these laws? Women? Who exactly do you see as being the problem, Western media, religion or feminists? Should feminists take the brunt of the blame when they get their information from Western media? Who controls Western media? I doubt it’s women. In American history the fight for female equality, mainly the right to vote, was taken up by several men who were fighting to better their own status. I’m thinking Frederick Douglas here. Is it possible that men in Iran can band together to fight for the rights of both men and women? In regard to the rape statistics. Are the rapists of these men and boys predominantly other males or are they women? Do the laws that give women the right to sue for marriage and monetary compensation contribute to the rates of male rape? There is no chance of getting a male pregnant, which means less evidence, but if the women are doing the raping, they seem to have much to gain under the system of law.

    Thanks in advance.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      This is your lucky day, because I have the answers you are looking for. But I have to say to start with that you are not asking germane questions.

      Look at it this way. Pointing to the fact that men make laws as contradictory to the idea that there is inequality against men is missing something that it should be teaching you. The problems driving the inequality are gynocentrism and misandry. Feminism is just the most recent incarnation of those things. It is just the latest way that misandry and gynocentrism are expressed. They are also expressed by men, women, certain aspects of religion and the media.

      This is not a conflict just between feminists and their dissenters, and it is certainly not a conflict between men and women. It is a struggle rooted in the idea that society, in India, the US, Canada, Australia and any other geographic region on the planet still operate on the instinct (or socialization if you prefer) that men are to protect women at all costs. That is how you get laws, drafted and passed by men (with a great deal of female support) that impose inequalities on the great majority of men.

      The best thing you can do for yourself if you want to understand the problem is to drop the feminist narrative about MHRAs that informs you that our struggle is just against feminism or seeks to blame all problems on it. We focus a great deal of attention on feminism because it is traditionalism on crack. It is the completely excessive expression of the long standing mandate to place the safety, protection and well-being of women above men at all costs.

      The question about rapes, in the way you expressed it, indicates moral bankruptcy. That is, the questions you are asking could also be asked of a White supremacist about Black on Black crime. Isn’t it a fact that African Americans are most often victimized by other African Americans? Or does that sound like a horrifically insensitive and bigoted question that carries with the it implication of chosen dismissal of Black victims simply because you can tell them it is a problem rooted in Blackness?

      If the question appears bigoted to you, take heart, there is hope that we can reach you! Because if you can understand the depravity of asking something as stupid as “Aren’t Blacks most often victimized by other Blacks, so why worry?” then you are capable, at least, of understanding that your question about rape carries the same depraved and bigoted indifference.

      If, on the other hand, you can see how that minimizing Black victimization that way is disgusting, but it is still OK to do that very thing to male victims, then you may not be reachable. Like a plantation owner in the Antebellum South, you may just be too far down the road of rationalization and sickness to come back from the depths of moral depravity.

      I hope this starts to answer your “questions.” And it only leaves one question from me. Just what kind of person are you?

      • djbecker69

        So basically the laws that men make (in order to protect women first and foremost), that create this inequality, are the fault of women and not the perceptions that men have or make? I think you also have to consider that the ideas of exactly who needs (or is deserving) of protection varies from culture to culture and there does not seem to be one fix-all answer. For example, in the US, White women (and children) are afforded protections that Black women are not. You can turn on the evening news and see story after story of White women who are abducted and being searched for but you do not see the same efforts when the victims are Black. I wonder if Black women and men in Iran are given the same rights as their lighter skinned countryfolk.

        Just so you are clear regarding my question on rape. I am NOT morally bankrupt. I just know that women and men are equally capable of being rapists. My question asked for specifics because it’s not enough to state that men make up 60% of victims. You must also account for who is committing the crimes to better foster understanding of why they happen in the first place. I do find it interesting that you automatically interpreted my question as being bigoted against men. Perhaps that says something about the king of person you are.

        Your statement on Black on Black crime does not strike me as bigoted because I also know that statistics show that the rates for White on White, Asian on Asian etc. crimes are comparable. The difference is that the only crimes you see highly publicized are crimes committed by Blacks, whether it be Black on Black or not. This is why I asked for specifics regarding the rape issue. You have to take into account the dynamics of male on male and female on male rape. The article can easily give the impression that a possibility exists for women to rape men in order to force marriage or for monetary gain. The other side of that coin is males raping other males to prevent being forced into marriage and because men are less likely to report the crime, no matter the gender of the rapist.

        I hope this clears up YOUR misunderstandings as to what kind of person I am. I ask questions because I am open to dialogue and learning from others. What I am NOT is someone who is arrogant enough to think that my opinions constitute all the “answers” or that someone merely asking a question, equates to them being a bigot.

        • alex brown

          Women take advantage of these laws.

    • Astrokid

      Very interesting article. I have a few questions. If there is so much inequality for men, who makes these laws? Women? Who exactly do you see as being the problem, Western media, religion or feminists?

      DJBecker,
      The MRM is pointing out the inequality against men as a response to the cultural narrative that there is a inequality towards woman, and solely towards women. (And of course, we want fix them to make the transition for men possible, just like women have transitioned out of their traditional roles)
      The view of History/Culture as arbitrary, and “one random thing after another” is misplaced. Rather, it grows organically, as explained by Jared Diamond in Guns Germs and Steel.
      I personally dont see religion/culture of the past as a problem.. rather it was largely a “balanced system” whose primary focus was societal well-being and continuity. Individualism was not a concern. That was all they could afford.
      I recommend Roy Baumeister’s 2010 Book Is There Anything Good About Men? How cultures flourish by exploiting men which explains why these roles evolved, and why culture grew out of the “men’s sphere”. There’s a lot to “blame” for today’s situation. Western Media, The State, Human Nature (specifically Male Disposability and Gynocentrism) all play a part.

      • djbecker69

        I agree with you that there are many causes. I have to admit I was thrown by your comment of not seeing “religion/culture of the past as a problem”, and that it was largely a “balanced system”. I don’t consider myself a religious person mainly because I have a hard time “worshiping” any faith that promotes slavery, the subordination of women (or men) to another human being, or the use of violence to spread a belief system. Many religious faiths and texts contain all of this.

        If there is a cultural narrative that there is inequality towards women, then wouldn’t a fair question be to ask WHO is responsible for that inequality? Is it possible that a lot of the inequality men face is self afflicted, more so than the inequality that women face? The way I see it, inequality is bad for everyone, whether self inflicted or due to some sense of duty or cultural norm.

        • Astrokid

          I am an Atheist myself.
          I am not talking about ‘Religion/culture’ as of today.. I am talking as of the past.
          You cant look at the past with modern sensibilities. You have to look at the past from the eyes of the people of the time. Do you really think that if you were born in 500AD, you would have campaigned against slavery? In 500AD, when a peasant owed another person large amounts of money and had no way to pay it back, he became a “slave” to repay the debt (one amongst many types of slavery).
          Religion was roped in to provide divine sanction for pre-existing cultural practices. And there would have been a vicious feedback that allowed the practice to continue beyond its period of usefulness.

          What is reasonable for people of today (say materialistic consumerism or non-vegetarianism) may be utterly repugnant to the generations that come 100 years down the line. Would that make today’s people assholes? And cultural systems tend to have a way to outlive their usefulness.

          ANYWAYS.. I am not going to get into a debate here about the past. Your comments are rather entry-level and you will find the answers if you read more. I have already provided a couple of pointers in my earlier comment to understand the past… and there’s also a lot of MRM literature specifically addressing male-female roles of the past. GirlWritesWhat has posts called ‘Patriarchy Schmatriarchy’, ‘Lets redefine the terms’.

          • djbecker69

            Here’s a suggestion. Referring to someone’s comments or ideas, when they express a genuine interest in your cause as “entry-level”, will not win anyone over or encourage dialogue. I’m done. Bicker amongst yourselves.

          • Astrokid

            What did you come here for anyway? Who are you? How long have you been reading this website or the MRM?
            Our goal is not to “win over” some random person who shows up and acts like a big shot when he/she knows zilch.

  • RobertWCT17

    Personally I am disgusted by the attempt of the Neocons to draw us into a war with Iran. So far the country at large appears to be uninterested, thankfully.

  • Astrokid

    I found an Iran clip thats rather hilarious. Can Ali confirm the translation is accurate?
    Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei on Europeans
    Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei is saying that Europeans are barbarians who beat their wives.
    Isnt that beautiful. West says men in Islamic countries beat women. And they return the favour by saying men in Western countries beat women. LOL

    • Ali Mehraspand

      LOL. The translation is accurate.
      Violence against women has never been tolerated. In the old days men would get together to teach “wife-beaters” a lesson which I have witnessed happen especially in less developed areas. Finally when the law was in control, assisting battered women has been a priority. In Iran a female victim of domestic violence has the right to Rojeie divorce which means aside from the legal punishment for violence (possible imprisonment and other punishments), the husband has to pay Mehrieh, Nafaqa, ojrat almesl probably for the next hundred years! That is a mind-boggling amount of money! Usually more than 10 times the blood money of a man!
      What about the male victims of domestic violence? Do they have the right to Bayen divorce? No, not even if the wife is a serial killer, because we pretend they don’t exist.
      Also because we are pretending that men “have the right divorce”. Yeah, right, the Rojeie divorce!
      http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-lies-feminism/indentured-servitude-for-men-in-iran-the-myth-of-patriarchal-oppressive-divorce/

      • nawotsme

        Salaamu Alaikum Ali,

        I note that the standard feminist line is to quote from surah An-Nisa 4:34. What they never mention is that there are social mechanisms in place to deal with “wife beaters”. The picture presented is one in which a man may beat his wife with impunity because it is the word of Allah, and that all other men are enablers by not intervening. You say in your comment here that you have witnessed otherwise. Can you explain a little further on this, perhaps in your next article?

        They also always fail to mention that the Prophet (saw) did not agree with the ayat, but conveyed the message.

        It is a classic example of cherrypicking ‘facts’ to suit an agenda from what i understand.

        • Ali Mehraspand

          Hi there!
          Just for clarity, I have a secular interest in examining the culture, not here to defend or attack any religion.
          Right now in Iran, there are 81 articles of law on the way to be legislated all about violence against women. They are mostly about expanding definition of violence and reducing the evidence needed for the courts to proceed with a case.
          About that incidence of vigilantism I mentioned, it was 17 years ago. When it happened I saw people expecting men to teach that wife-beater a lesson. Some of them I felt were reluctant but did not dare oppose. Funny thing was the husband left town for a few years out of fear!
          Anyway about cherrypicking, stay tuned for a big one!

      • Mehr

        I have witnessed a lot of oppression against women in marriage life and in getting divorced . There are some cases that rich men are forced to pay Mehrieh to their wives . But why do you generalize these cases ? Mehrieh has been used as a medium by women who want to get divorced because they don’t have the right to get divorced . But if a man is not rich enough to pay it, the court will not force him to do that and he is allowed not to divorce his wife forever. Most women have to give a lot of benefits to their husband just to have their children. Your article is a shocking lie for me who lived in Iran and witnessed a lot of difficulties that Iranian women have to tolerate .

        • kakasia

          that is a big fucking lie

  • electricman

    Ultimately most all of the world’s violence is perpetuated generation after generation, because men are scum by default as soon as they’re born, the violent sex, the sex with less intrinsic value. When males of any age attempt to spit in the face of their default stereotype by being decent, compassionate human beings what usually occurs? What usually occurs is that these types men are considered to be effeminate, betas, wimps, pussies, etc.

    It appears that no matter how hard a man tries to be decent, he’s not allowed to because he’s supposed to be playing out his role being an uncaring, uncompassionate, hypermasculine jerk. I really do feel that, like my first sentence above implies, that the majority of violence and hatred throughout this world is the result of men being conditioned to uphold nearly impossible masculine standards, combined with the fact that they know deep down inside that nobody gives a shit about their problems or concerns.

    I find this article above to be rather surprising concerning some Muslim theocracies, but not entirely shocking. Concerning gay rights I’ve always been rather surprised this has been considered to be a homosexuality issue, when in fact it’s really a sex/gender issue. I live in a very conservative area, and there are many lesbians who are very open about their lifestyle, even holding hands and kissing each other. A gay couple would get the shit beaten out of them if they would do the same in my neck of the woods. (I’m straight but had a gay brother).

  • Anil Kumar

    Great Article, Ali.

    Your article is a big relief to me as, I was a kind of the lone warrior in AVFM talking about cultures in Southern parts of Asia. Now, I was waiting for article by different other neighboring countries of India.

    Being an Indians, I can always relate to what you have written and the kind of lies spread in western media by feminists about countries like India and Iran. The fact that a woman who have pre-marital vaginal sex can sue the man to force a marriage on marry him, relates to what always happened in India. Today, the guys refusing to marry get false rape cases with woman claiming, “he raped me for 7 months”.

    Regarding prohibition, the Western Indian State of Gujarat has prohibition since a long time, though other states in India have no such restrictions.

    Great. I am eager to read your other articles on gynocentrism in Iran.

  • parthasadhukhan

    Brilliant article. But there is no option to reblog this on my network..:(

    • Fredrik

      There are ten options. You’re going to have to say which one you want, because no one is going to guess your #11.

  • darthgavin

    Hello, everyone. Been lurking the site for a while, but never really bothered making an account. Ironically (but not surprisingly not that I’ve been reading about all the crazy things feminism does these days), in a tumblr post about how mras hate women.

    Anyway, great article. It’s amazing the amount of misinformation spread by feminists and the Media about these things.

    • markis1

      Welcome :)

  • captive

    So we make apologies for the Iranians here?

    Sorry, no excuses for the anti-Semitic, gay-executing, atheist murdering and artist terrorizing Shiite or Sunni states. Islam is the embodiment of male disposability.

    Any society where even the most radical people start thinking that young boys ought to be soldiers, much less suicide bombers, is not, in the slightest, pro-male.

    • Scribbler G

      @ Captive – You know very little about Iran as is obvious from your comment. It is not a secular society and there are vile excesses – just like say Israel is a religious state with much intolerance and official bigotry. So, if you are railing against religious states, then yes I’m with you, they are all loathesome. Sadly, Israel was the only one formed by U.N. resolution by an institution dedicated to a “post-colonial order” – but itself was a colonial operation. So yeah, when the Iranians and other Muslims stand in solidarity with the millions of Arab Muslims living in Palestine against such transgressions, I don’t call it “anti-semitism” – I call it consequences.

      But hey, as far as being against traditional male roles, sure I’m against it in every society and Muslim one’s are very problematic. As for the rest of your comment, yeah, tell your story walking.

  • somao

    As an Iranian, I can only attest that this is true.
    Furthermore, when most of these Iranian women come to US, like leeches, they suck their husbands dry through alimony and child support laws. Especially, here in LA Iranian women that claim to be authentic, warm, traditional and loving, mostly engage in bitter and fisty divorce proceedings.
    I know at least two friends who got divorced after they were set up with domestic violence.
    My advice: don’t get married out of desperation or loneliness, UNLESS she makes more money than you. Yes, unless she makes more money than you, because she has something to loose if she thinks about messing with you. Also, keep in mind if you bring an Iranian woman from Iran and she doesn’t work, you have to pay her Alimony for half of the time you were married, until she gets remarried (and that’s without any children involved)….Very fair, isn’t it?

    • Mehr

      As an Iranian woman , I have to say that I do
      not agree with the author of this article in most of his comments. There is a
      lot of gender inequality and discrimination against women in Iran . I
      personally have seen and experienced many of them. How can the author ignore
      the attacks and harassment against women who do not have complete Hejab in the
      streets by the regime officials ??? Those girls that are shown in the picture
      above may have been arrested up to now. How can the author ignore the right of
      men to divorce ? Women do not have the right to divorce . Women do not have the
      right to leave the country without the permission of their husbands . The
      custody and guardianship of children belong to men in case of divorce . I heard
      a judge saying ” A father is allowed not to send his kids to school or
      even kill them and you can not do anything as kids belong to their father
      ” . Also, there are a lot more oppression and discrimination against women
      that can be mentioned ………

  • Mehr

    I need to add that women are considered as properties that are bought by men after marriage . They need their husbands’ permission to make every decision. If they are lucky to have a good husband who is not likely to use his privileges , they won’t have any problems. But if they marry a man who wants to use his privileges, they have to tolerate a lot of difficulties to have their rights to live as a human being because their husbands are totally supported by law to oppress them.

    • Ali Mehraspand

      I am trying to figure out which one you are: a shameless liar or simply an uneducated dumb who thinks if she regurgitates the lies she’s been fed, we’ll keep buying them as well. There is not a third choice here, let me elaborate.
      First off, I am responding randomly to some comments you have made on this thread. You said:

      “There are some cases that rich men are
      forced to pay Mehrieh to their wives . But why do you generalize these cases ?” Mehr

      So I’ll ask you again, which one are you? A liar or a dumbo? Mehrieh applies to all men regardless of their status. Now, for somebody who has lived in Iran, your ignorance of something which applies to all men shows that you either are a brainwashed narcissist or a liar, the likes of whom I will keep exposing here. Among other gems you have typed here:

      “Mehrieh has been used as a medium by women who want to get divorced because they don’t have the right to get divorced . But if a man is not rich enough to pay it, the court will not force him to do that and he is allowed not to divorce his wife forever.”

      Oh, where do I begin with this? First of all, women do not have the right to ROJEIE divorce because they are entitled to Mehrieh, But they have the right to Bayen divorce. Second, if the man does not have the money for Mehrieh, he goes to prison. In 2012, 3500 men were in prison for their inability to pay Mehrieh and almost the same number of men, were in prison for their inability to pay Nafaqa. And that is a small fraction of all the men who are paying their Mehrieh monthly. You know, for such a liar or a dumbo I am glad to tell you that people on this site know a lot more than you about these laws that you are trying to mislead people about just like feminists. Ironically you have lived in Iran, hehehe:

      http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-lies-feminism/indentured-servitude-for-men-in-iran-the-myth-of-patriarchal-oppressive-divorce/

      Actually women have the right to Bayen divorce which accounts for more that
      90% of divorces. Tell us that bullshit about how women do not have the right to divorce again? Seriously, I recommend reading that article before making a fool of yourself.

      Now up to this point I was generous enough to consider you are
      just a dumbo who makes comments on things she has no knowledge of, but here I have to call you on one of your lies and I will keep this as a reminder of how some Iranian women have been lying for the past several decades, you say:

      “But Islamic law of Iran allowed my ex-husband to forbid me leave the country and my passport was seized.”

      Wrong place to lie honey, it is not the Guardian. Your ex-husband has no power over your life. Yes, a signature of husband is needed for a passport, but not the signature of an ex-husband. And when a husband signs, the passport is good for five years. Now are you deliberately not saying “my now ex-husband” instead of “my ex-husband”? Actually after divorce to which women have much more rights than men, it is only the ex-wives that have control over their husband’s life. Paying Mehrieh for several decades aside, until the entire Mehrieh is paid, the ex-husband cannot leave the country. Funny that you said:

      “Also , your comment (J. G. te Molder’s comment) about their rights to divorce is completely wrong . Why do you give comment about something that you do not have any knowledge about that ? ”

      Your knowledge of this subject is much less, a little self-scrutiny here. May I recommend again that you read the article I just linked? You have been watching feminist shows too much and they have lied to you. Lies which you feel you need to spew here.

      About the comment to which I am putting this response, I can reverse the gender in all your nonsense and it will be truer.

      Finally about your comments on how you didn’t like your life here in Iran, most men do not like it either which is why although it is men who do not have the right to leave the country until they have served their time in the military; it is mostly men under 25 who escape Iran and never get back.

      I will leave the rest of your bullshit (and you have said a lot of them) for that I don’t consider them important enough to be worth my time. Chao for now.

      • Mehr

        Ali Mehraspand ! I was shocked by your impolite and offensive words towards me . An educated knowledgeable man never talks like this to a woman. You addressed me as dumb , shameless liar who says bullshit . I hadn’t insulted or offended you before because I considered you as an educated man . You must be ashamed of your behavior. You don’t need to figure out who I am . You need to figure out who you are and increase your knowledge about an issue that you give comment.
        I am neither an uneducated dumb, nor a liar . I am a doctorate student and all I said was a real truth because I experienced and felt all those realities in my personal life . If you reflected more , you would understand that I meant my ” now ex- husband ” forbid me leave the country last year. At that time he was my husband and could forbid me leave the country because husbands are allowed to do this if they want. After my divorce , I could leave the country fortunately.
        Regarding Mehriie , there has been a new law since 2013 that husbands will not be prisoned for Mehriie . You need to study more on this . Also , if they don’t have any properties or if they hide their properties by making their properties in the name of one of their relatives, the law only asks them to pay a small amount of money to their wives. so they are able to not divorce their wives for many years . I went through all challenges for a long time and I felt how the Islamic laws of Iran are unfair to women. I felt all these by my mind and my heart . I don’t need to read that article because I was in the court for my divorce for many months and I know all about divorce much more than you.
        I think you are not worth to pay more time on your bullshit . I hate the Islamic law of Iran that oppress women by every cell of my body and my heart because I had to go through a lot of challenges by them. I also hate you that try to mislead people by your lack of understanding and your poor culture that made you consider your gender superior to women. You think like those Mola , Sheikh , and Hezbollah that ruined Iran .

        • Astrokid
        • Ali Mehraspand

          :) It still amazes me how opposing feminist lies have become synonymous as
          advocating for a certain religion in the brilliant minds of doctorate students.
          Could your hyper powerful faculties assist us in finding where I even slightly
          advocated for Islamic laws? I am trying to make people see that restrictions
          are not all on women or even more on women or even just slightly less on women.
          Anyway thanks for pointing out that some people such as yourself who consider
          themselves “open-minded” actually think that by opposing gynocentrism, one is a member of Hezbollah.

          Since your self-righteous attitude has kept you from learning, about that lie you said that has apparently stopped men from going to prison for Mehrieh since 2013: It is in the article I linked, the law does not stop men from going to prison, it just gives them an opportunity to pay 110 gold coins up-front so that they are
          allowed to pay the rest of it monthly. By the way, it was not even 2013, it was
          2012 and the statistics was taken AFTER this law had freed many of the
          prisoners. Your ignorance and arrogance about how men somehow do not have to pay Mehrieh cannot be cured, so I will consider it for a good laugh and will
          refer to such attitudes typical of a portion of Iranian women in the future.

        • SGT Ted

          What makes you think that women deserve any extra consideration from men regarding insults and use of language? Because you are a girl? What a laugher. Bullshit is bullshit and your being a female doesn’t grant you special privileges over men as far as conduct and argument goes. Women need to quit expecting special rules for themselves that privilege them over men. It’s called “equality”, look it up.

  • Mehr

    J.G te Molder ! You must be ashamed of your rudeness to judge me before knowing me . I am an Iranian woman who lived in Iran for all my life except the last few months. Fortunately, I could leave that male-dominated society a few months ago and live in a country that put value on women as human beings that are equal to men unlike Islamic government of Iran that considers women as inferior creatures who need to be supervised and controlled by men.
    I passed a lot of difficulties and experienced all these discriminations in my life. How could you give that ridiculous and unreasonable reason for women’s not having the right to leave the country without their husbands’ permission ? You consider women as creatures who need their husbands to take care of them. Maybe your wife or your sister are these kind of women . But there are many Iranian women like me who do not need anybody to take care of them. I have been a strong woman who have been able to protect myself and even protect and support my ex-husband and my kid. But Islamic law of Iran allowed my ex-husband to forbid me leave the country and my passport was seized. He could neither protect and support himself , nor my kid and I . But the law doesn’t consider these differences.
    Also , your comment about their rights to divorce is completely wrong . Why do you give comment about something that you do not have any knowledge about that ? Women only have right to divorce in Few special circumstances . For example, if her husband is mentally ill or if he leaves the marital life for more than six months. But men can divorce their wives without any reason.
    Finally in your response about judging me , I do not wish to advocate the privilege of having custody of my kid without responsibility. I do want the right of custody along with responsibility and protecting and supporting my kid. But the law does not consider this right for women. However, I could get it after passing a lot of difficulties and giving a lot of privileges and money to him that were unfair to me . But I had to go through all those challenges in order to save my kid and myself and in order to get rid of those unfair rules against women. It may be difficult for you to understand because you have not experienced those discriminations and you have not experience those challenges due to being oppressed in your society. So , do not give any comments when you do not have enough knowledge about an issue. It is better for you to be silent rather than telling those nonsense words that are a big lie.

  • fizziks

    I’m sorry, is this article a joke??

    First of all, I don’t know what planet you are on but here on Earth Western feminists do not usually denounce Islamic oppression of women. Instead they mostly take every opportunity to look the other way or excuse it. The only time mainstream feminists ever raise a real alarm against child marriages, honor killings, female genital mutilation, burqas, or the other things that happen to women in Muslim countries is if it can be used as a cudgel to bash US foreign policy, Israel, or some other far-left boogey man. In fact one of the major hypocrisies of Western feminism is the contortions they go to in order to AVOID criticizing Islam or Islamic societies. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard a supposed feminist excuse burqas or honor killings in the name of cultural relativism. The claim here that feminists are leading the charge in criticizing Iran or any other Muslim country is ludicrous. They are doing exactly the opposite – they rarely criticize Iran or any other Muslim society.

    Second of all, a lot of these comments are ignorant as all hell. A few people seem to think that Zionism, a secular nationalistic ideology, is the same thing as Islamism, a religious ideology. Others here have veered into the tiresome banal conspiracy theories. Look, Iran is a kleptocratic theocracy that routinely threatens to “wipe other countries off the map”. Your feelings about George Bush or Obama or the MSM have no bearing on those facts on the ground.

    Lastly, as I was just saying, Iran is simply a repressive government that absolutely restricts the freedom of all who live there, male, female, straight, gay, and whatever else, and engages in supporting terrorist proxy armies. There is nothing redeeming about the Iranian regime, and arguing over whether men or women have it worse there is like arguing whether chickens or turkeys have it worse in the slaughterhouse. The kind of rhetoric here really discredits the very real issue of misandry in the West.

    • Tom Golden

      I found great value in the article pointing out the hypocrisy of the prevalent claims that women were the sole victims of this sort of regime. I had never heard the man’s or the boys side of this as the author offered. It was a refreshing switch from the all too tired and hackneyed BS about women being victims and men the perps.

      And yes, I think you are right to point out that the fems look the other way when it comes to the evils perpetuated. However, I think that the media whether feminist driven or not, has been locked on to these women being oppressed and the men as oppressors. At the same time they are mum about the hardships faced by men and boys. This article helped balance that by showing the side of men and boys.

      • Star Seed

        You have seriously never read an article on all the hangings in Iran? And you seriously didn’t know the most prevalent victims of rape in not just Iran but the Middle East are little boys and men? And this is the fault of feminists?

        • http://menaregood.com/ Tom Golden

          Actually, no, I haven’t seen many articles on men and boys who are raped in Iran. Your comment made me curious so I went to google and searched the washington post for “rape in Iran” and had a quick look at the results. There is one 400 word article in 2007 about a 20 year old boy in Iran being hung due to his allegedly raping three young boys. But the article focused on the perp and ignored the boys who were raped. I think most of the other articles focused on women who were raped and in those articles the focus is not only on the perp it is on the female victims, highlighting their plight. This is what I have seen repeatedly, yes, some info gets through about men being victims but it is filtered and dwarfed by what you see about women and girls. Maybe you can offer links to multiple articles in the Washington Post that focus, as you have claimed, on the rapes of boys and men? I would like to see that.

          And btw, I never claimed it was feminism that was doing this. Read my post again and see that what I did say was: ” I think that the media whether feminist driven or not, has been locked on to these women being oppressed and the men as oppressors.”

          https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=rape+in+iran+site:washingtonpost.com

          • Star Seed
          • Star Seed
          • Star Seed
          • Star Seed
          • Star Seed
          • Star Seed
          • Star Seed
          • Star Seed
          • Star Seed
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          • Star Seed

            It all depends on how you word the search, though I will admit it took me several attempts to find decent results. However, though the victims are both men and women, girls and boys, the rapists themselves consists of an overwhelming majority of men and though the majority of the articles are on women, it doesn’t negate the rape committed against either women or men. Personally, the gender of the victim doesn’t matter to me. What does matter is the prevention of any sexual assault and justice for the victims, whether they are male or female. If, as MRA’s claim, feminists overlook male rape victims (and I’ve seen a few that have) but only chose to speak out for male victims, then the MRA is no better than the feminists that overlook male rape victims.
            Another factor to consider is that the majority of male rape victims don’t speak out due to assigned gender roles that dictate male rape victims are not men because they have been raped. They fear being shunned and looked down upon by both their family and friends. Assigned gender roles isn’t a feminist stance (if anything they are on the opposite extreme). Either way, I don’t see how feminists or MRA’s improve society because both are only concerned for the rights of their gender – at the expense of the opposite gender.

          • Astrokid

            If, as MRA’s claim, feminists overlook male rape victims (and I’ve seen a few that have) but only chose to speak out for male victims, then the MRA is no better than the feminists that overlook male rape victims. ..
            Either way, I don’t see how feminists or MRA’s improve society because both are only concerned for the rights of their gender – at the expense of the opposite gender.

            I see.. Then I am sure you can show us instances of you arguing with the much larger number of feminists and feminism-supporting-institutions that they are doing it wrong by focusing on only one gender.

          • Star Seed

            I don’t exactly copy the pages of online arguments, especially for the purposes of keeping records. Do you?

          • Guest

            A copy would be somewhat inadequate, given that it lacks context. I prefer actual URLs to comments. And when I comment on feminist-friendly newssites and websites, then.. Yes I do take copies, coz the original comments often get deleted at feminist sites.
            But some commenting systems capture the history themselves. for e.g I looked at your Disqus history, and I didnt see you arguing with feminists. I see you doing this at ROK though

            Discussion on Return Of Kings
            How To Convince A Girl To Get An Abortion
            Star Seed • 11 months ago
            Again, if you don’t want a kid, then keep it in your pants. Also, how in the fuck does a woman trick a man into getting pregnant, when having sex in itself is a risk you take in reproducing a child? Besides, are you telling me that you would be dumb enough to trust someone you just met that she is telling the truth? That’s like a woman believing that a man that tells he has fallen in love with her on the first date and wants to marry her.

            You quack like a feminist. Do you identify as a feminist?

          • Star Seed

            Apparently, your comment wasn’t deleted.

          • Astrokid

            Shucks.. I accidentally deleted my comment. Ok I will type again.
            Yes.. I do take copies of my comments when I am commenting on feminist-friendly websites, coz they often delete my comments. And some commenting systems like Disqus preserve your comments even if the site deletes them, so no need to take copies then.
            I looked at your Disqus history, and found not one instance of you arguing at feminist sites. Instead, I see this

            Discussion on Return Of Kings
            How To Convince A Girl To Get An Abortion
            Star Seed • 11 months ago
            Again, if you don’t want a kid, then keep it in your pants. Also, how in the fuck does a woman trick a man into getting pregnant, when having sex in itself is a risk you take in reproducing a child? Besides, are you telling me that you would be dumb enough to trust someone you just met that she is telling the truth? That’s like a woman believing that a man that tells he has fallen in love with her on the first date and wants to marry her.

            You quack like a feminist. Are you a feminist?

          • Star Seed

            Nice, and mad respect for you. Did you also happen to take a look at the way I was attacked by feminists on the Hobby Lobby article?

          • Astrokid

            I cant see how you were attacked by feminists.. coz that would require me to go beyond reading your disqus history, to individual sites to read responses.
            Thats why I asked you if you can demonstrate your own work where you told feminists the exact same thing you are telling us here.. that they are doing it wrong by “focusing on one gender”.

            I see you commented elsewhere just now that

            Discussion on Raw Story
            Women Against Feminism show how bad arguments against feminism really are
            Star Seed • 4 minutes ago
            Lmfao! I was just accused of being a feminist about thirteen minutes ago by an MRA. Labels are such a bitch.

            Star Seed • 20 minutes ago
            How about listening to these women and trying to understand their views, instead of demeaning them? Just because they have a different opinion, their stance isn’t less valid then anyone else’s. Also to be fair, there are quite a number of extreme feminists that do publically accuse all men of being rapists and argue that consensual sex between a man and a woman is rape. There are also many men that fear anything they say will be used in the wrong context against them. This isn’t even the tip of the iceberg and are issues that need to be addressed.

            Note that I ASKED you if you were a feminist, coz you were quacking like one. I didnt ACCUSE you LOL, coz I know numerous people who dont identify as a feminist, yet quack the same theories.
            Also, Re: your 2nd comment there.. Lets see how well you argue with feminists. Why dont you tell them they are doing it wrong by focusing on one gender. That will be really interesting.

          • Star Seed

            Omg. I was gang-banged by a bunch of hateful feminists. I wasn’t able to get that far with the “focusing on one gender”. I couldn’t get past getting them to see that the women they were bashing had a right to their own opinion.

          • Astrokid

            I decided to take a few snapshots anyway and append it to an existing storify. Others here can also check it out if they want.
            Feminists dismiss criticism of feminism, or raising mens issues

            The real deal is that you seem surprised by the result. Thats why I wanted to see your history and if you had interacted with them before. Are you not aware of how feminism is seen even by many non-MRAs on the internet? for e.g TheAmazingAtheist has a bunch of videos on them..for e.g Beware the Feminist Lynch Mob!
            There’s one called ‘Feminism vs Freedom of Speech’. Another popular Atheist thunderf00t has many on ‘Why feminism poisons everything’.

            While those are entertaining, more interesting is the fact that feminists have been cast out of the Sisterhood for dissenting ideas throughout the last 5 decades.. you might be aware of Erin Pizzey, Camille Paglia, Christina Hoff Sommers, Wendy McElroy, Cathy Young. Another one is: Canadian Donna LaFramboise in her 1996 book:
            http://www.freezepage.com/1399064185JDOLBIPZOL

            The book has eight chapters. In the first chapter Laframboise refers to the “lunatic fringe” of feminism in critiquing the writings of Marilyn French andCatharine MacKinnon. She accuses these writers of perpetuating sexism against men in the form of male bashing. According to Laframboise, these writers are guilty of perpetuating extremist gender stereotypes (e.g., all men are exploitative of women, all men are guilty of committing crimes against women). In contrast, Laframboise is critical of feminists who portray women as being morally superior to men and incapable of committing violent acts unless they have been corrupted by men.
            Chapter 4 deals with the issue of political correctness. According to Laframboise, many radical feminists are intolerant of those who disagree with them, and women who diverge from the “party line” are dismissed as not being true feminists. This aspect of intolerance of dissenting opinions concerns Laframboise the most. Using several examples, she illustrates how women who have tried to express any views that are not considered acceptable to radical feminists have been viciously attacked on a personal level and treated with contempt as the enemy. The author is especially upset with professors who engage in “indoctrination” as opposed to scholarly inquiry.
            In Chapter 6 she discusses the men’s movement and its implications for feminism. Here Laframboise discusses the problems men have to face because of how men’s roles are stereotyped, and she encourages feminists to be more understanding of the problems dealt men.
            In Chapter 7 she states that feminists have used biased statistics in their analyses of male power. She asserts that, in reality, many men who are in low paying jobs, for example, lack the power attributed to all men by feminists. In fact, a relatively small group of men hold economic power over most men as well as most women. Men who are at the low end of the economic scale are also disadvantaged because many women consider them to be less desirable as potential partners. Furthermore, Laframboise argues that compared with men, many women have sexual power that can be used to their advantage and that male sexuality is devalued in comparison with female sexuality.

            As you can see, none of this is new. I have to critique your response to the people at RawStory though. Surely you could have found better examples than that obscure feminist WitchWind. What do you expect the rest of feminist community to do if WitchWind is nuts? They cant shut her down.. the best they can do is avoid her, or disown her if she gets a noticeable following. You need to find problem-feminists with some degree of power.

          • Star Seed

            No, I wasn’t able to search for additional results. I was being bombarded. I have never received such an onslaught by anyone or any person that associates with a political party or particular ideology until today. There was no reasoning, no compassion, no empathy, just mob rage (and I’m not speaking of myself but for the women featured in the article). I’m not going to lie, I’m genuinely surprised and very disappointed. I’ve dealt with radicals before but never seen so many collective radicals in one place.
            I agree with your critique and appreciate the information you provided, of which I plan to research and read. However, I don’t agree with using feminists with power. The reason being is that if the voice of a single woman is ignored by those that supposedly adhere to an ideology that is supposed to support women, then the cause is already lost.

          • Mr Happy Face

            The common response is “what, men get raped? You’re just a misogynist”. The typical response I receive from men is “I’m a white heterosexual male and my life is easy so you must be advocating for the right to beat up women”.

            In fact, to draw attention back to that latter point; the most common counter argument I hear, regardless of what issue I try to discuss (be it an increasingly large number of men committing suicide (80%+ of all suicides globally), a declining number of men receiving higher education (~40% of higher education enrollments are male, and decreasing). I am usually shunned and ridiculed as “advocating for my right to rape indiscriminately”.

            So, I say; good luck raising meaningful discussion with a monster that has already generalized you as a violent rapist hell bent on oppressing all females, knowledge, and reason, with a patriarchal system of systematic discrimination.

          • J.G. te Molder

            Well, if you had bothered to read around this site when it comes to rape; you will find that us MRAs have a beef with feminists and their rape definition requiring penetration of the victim, as this makes the victims of most female rapists disappear. Most female rapists do not penetrate their victim. We have a problem with it because it makes male victims of female rapists invisible, and it’s our focus as it is the largest group that disappears. However, we ALSO have a beef with it, because it makes the FEMALE victims of female rapists invisible.

            Indeed, the feminist goal is to make female perpetration invisible; for if they have to acknowledge female rapists, and large numbers of them, their narrative of women as the eternal, pure as snow, innocent victim completely falls apart.

          • Star Seed

            I will take a look. Thanks.

    • Astrokid

      Hey dude.. Fuck you.
      I dont give a fuck what feminists do with respect to 3rd world countries. They have their motives.
      From the perspective of us 3rd worlders who have seen things from both sides, US isnt an innocent angel. And its foreign policy isnt a far-left boogeyman.

      I have spent a lot of time in the US Atheist movement, and all those morons do is look at one side of the issue and wail. And they throw the words “rational” and “reason” around as if they own them. You have a problem with female genital mutilation in some Muslim countries? Did you know that its the result of female-on-female competition, and enforced by mothers and grandmothers?
      You have a problem with ‘the oppression’ of Burqas? Who are you.. a fan of Pat Condell or a Richard Dawkins? Did you talk to women from those countries or perhaps listened to Zara Faris?

      Perhaps the way it works is for cultures to build solutions based on what their environment/resources dictate, and they progress by educating themselves, and prosperity helps overcome old ways. The prosperity that is in part denied by centuries of Western colonialism, and in post colonial periods by economic imperialism. Perhaps if the muslim countries discover a New World continent nearby, and they go ahead and colonize it and wipe out the natives, it will all work out just fine. They can also get on a high horse and preach.

      Lastly, as I was just saying, Iran is simply a repressive government that absolutely restricts the freedom of all who live there, male, female, straight, gay, and whatever else, and engages in supporting terrorist proxy armies

      Oh.. and what was US doing just about 50 years ago? It wasnt repressing gays? And No.. it doesnt support terrorist proxy armies. No sirree bob. And if we are to believe the feminist narrative, the West has oppressed women for millenia, and you are one of those asshole oppressors. And why shouldnt I believe the feminist narrative, when you believe the Western Mainstream media narrative?

      • fizziks

        Why yes, I am a fan of Pat Condell and Richard Dawkins. In part because
        they are logicians who expose the disgusting and lazy moral relativism
        behind such sentiments as you have expressed here. I certainly hope
        that MRM does not become associated with lazy far-left defenses of
        female genital mutilation or the Iranian regime’s Holocaust denial –
        that will be a sad day indeed.
        Anyway, I think Code Pink called and they want their rhetoric back.

        • Astrokid

          In short, you have nothing to say about the substance of this article or the points I raised.
          Look at what you did.. this article neither defended Iran’s politics nor FGM. Neither did I. While the MHRM does not side with politicians, the people here represent the entire political spectrum and have some latitude in using those viewpoints. I am a classical liberal myself. I am also a 3rd worlder, and just as you have your worldview lens, so do I. Each subgroup of the Atheism community call themselves the “rational” ones, the “logical” ones.. and call all the others irrational. Outsiders, including psychologist Jonathan Haidt of ‘The Rational Delusion in moral psychology and (New) Atheism‘ fame, laugh.
          You just backed out, chickenshit.

    • Mr Happy Face

      A lot of this is valid, and I agree with a lot of it. Without cherry picking anything in order to discredit your argument itself, I would like to address a certain point which you made.

      “Zionism, a secular nationalistic ideology”

      Zion, the promised land of the Jews. Usually, this term is used to refer symbolically to Jerusalem, the birth place of Christ (and indeed, the homeland of typical Judaism itself, although with some confusion arising in the distinction between conventional Judaism, and the Khazar Judaism which evolved in and around the 8th Century).

      Zionism, as an ideology, is a Jewish concept for Jewish people, in other words; a concept inherent to a religious (aka non-secular) group which identifies itself as a product of religious (aka non-secular) heritage. The ideology itself centers around the promise of a land without semetism or discrimination or persecution (which is somewhat contradictory, since this land is ONLY for Jews).

      So, we have a concept, born from a spiritual belief, of a promised land, identified as the spiritual center of almost all modern spiritual faith, granting freedom from discrimination and persecution to, and only to, a group which defines itself as a product of its spiritual heritage.

      Please can someone explain to me how that makes it any more secular and nationalistic than Islam?

  • Guest

    This reminds of of this great video about the fall of Sparta. Iran today seems eerily similarly to Sparta before it fell. And to say the obvious, nobody is perfect and I just found Hitchens making a totally stupid argument, thanks. An actual Iranian woman is sitting in front of him telling him he is wrong about Iran and his only argument is “you’re wrong.” Imagine you are American and you try to explain to an European that not all Americans are rednecks and drive Hummers and he says you’re wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbhVF39XEOA

  • Llort Bew

    This reminds me of this video of the fall of Sparta. Iran today seems eerily similar to Sparta before its fall. And to state the obvious, nobody is perfect and I just found Hitchens making a stupid argument. An Actual Iranian woman is sitting in front of him telling him Iran is not like that and his argument is “you’re wrong.” Imagine you, an American explaining to an European that America is not all monster trucks and guns and he says “you’re wrong.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbhVF39XEOA

  • Jack

    Just how many broken links and missing citations do I have to wade through to verify this information?

    • Astrokid

      The naive author doesnt know that the internet is full of Sir Highness’es like you.

    • Ali Mehraspand

      All the links work for me. None of them is broken. Though for the first two links, you need to directly copy and paste in your browser’s address bar. If you are referring to the third one, it’s not a link, see the abstract on elsevier.

  • http://www.federaleagent86.blogspot.com/ Federale

    Disappointing that this site is supporting Islamist terrorism. Does the editor of this site not remember the embassy hostages, the attack on the American Embassy in Lebanon by Iranian Muslim terrorists? The attack on the Marine Barracks in Lebanon by Iranian Muslim terrorists? Islam is violent and dangerous, especially the Ayatollahs in Iran. Excessive welfare for women does not justify Iran’s support for Al Queda. Get a grip on reality.

    • http://www.libertariancomment.com/ Glenn

      Hey, genius, since you are blasting in here trying to sort us dummies out, just answer this question. Why were Iranians so angry with the U.S. to begin with? You do realize we overthrew their democratically elected leader and armed, trained and supported the repressive regime of the Shah, In fact, the Savak (Iranian secret police under the Shah) were subcontractors to U.S. intelligence and often did our bidding within Iran and elsewhere.

      • http://www.federaleagent86.blogspot.com/ Federale

        He was a communist agent of the Soviet Union. You like Muslim terrorists? Are you justifying the bombing of the Marine Barracks, the American Embassy, and the hostage taking?

        • ScribblerG1

          Mousadegh as a “communist agent of the Soviet Union” – you are out of your mind. You do realize you just revealed yourself as full of BS, right? You just made that up. He was a communist though – I guess in your dim world that justifies overthrowing them. Even though he was popularly elected. But in any event, your ignorant and pathetic attempts to justify that action are not relevant. What dopes like you never get is that there are consequences to our actions. The taking of our embassy was one of them.

          The Marine barracks bombing was in retaliation for us putting troops into Lebanon. In case you forgot, putting troops on foreign soil uninvited is a hostile act. We did so to support Israel, fyi. Apparently Reagan was much smarter than you because he realized what a mistake he made and retreated.

    • Astrokid

      Dont be silly.
      This article is a rebuttal of gender myths in iran.
      Its not a political stmt about iran or US foreign policy.
      Get a grip on reality

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ David King

    Not that it’s particularly apposite whether he’s really Iranian or not, and not that his standard of English is evidence either way. Plenty of people become fluent in foreign languages before they ever leave their country of birth.

    I remind you that personal attacks are contrary to our comment policy. If you disagree with what Mehr’s saying, rebut his argument, not the person.