beaten dejected homeless dolls compassion 750

On nerds and “entitlement”: An open letter to The Two Scotts

As you may or may not have heard, in early December 2014, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) took the rather startling step of stripping famed and esteemed physicist Walter Lewin of his Professor Emeritus status and removing his online lectures and courses from its web site because he had been accused of sexual harassment.

In response to this murky sexual harassment scandal involving a retired professor, Scott Aaronson penned a blog post. In his post, he expressed a desire that MIT not penalize the thousands of online students who depend on that professor’s uploaded lectures by pulling them down (perfectly reasonable), as well as some dissatisfaction as to the lack of transparency regarding what had actually transpired that was bad enough to see MIT strip a noted professor of his emeritus status.

This is not an unreasonable request. Sexual harassment policies in universities and colleges are consistently vague as to what behaviors are in violation and where the line is between interacting with women and expulsion. Many such policies rely heavily words like “unwanted” or “unwelcome“:

The definition of sexual harassment may differ slightly among educational institutions. The types of behavior constituting sexual harassment may vary in degree of severity. Its
definition always has one key element — the behavior is uninvited, unwanted, and unwelcome.

His concern, which he went on to explain in the comments, and unlike that of a typical observing public, was not so much that he longed to enjoy the titillating and salacious nitty-gritties of the case, but that for many men, particularly nerdy ones, life is already fraught with the, to them, arbitrary, ephemeral and capricious rules of social and sexual interaction, and for those already living in constant anxiety about offending women, not knowing what offenses had actually earned this man the complete annihilation being meted out… well, nerds across the globe were probably rushing to pharmacies to refill their anxiety meds.

For a group of people high in IQ and low in social expertise, who were likely bullied in high school, who are frequently not conventionally physically attractive and know it (because they heard it, constantly, possibly amid the sound of flushing water while being held upside down, often by people who WERE conventionally attractive), the vagueness of these definitions, combined with the dubious competence of adjudication, the erosion of due process and the sometimes draconian punishments that accompany a finding of violation on a typical university campus, well, Aaronson’s now famous Comment #171, posted under his blog post delves into the very heart of that particular darkness.

And after exposing his vulnerability, fear and pain from a place and time where he has now worked past much of it, the response of the usual feminist suspects was typically brutal.

The establishment feminists dubbed him privileged and misogynistic, accused him of viewing women as subhuman sex objects, and asserted that his entire heartfelt and heartbreaking post was merely an expression of thwarted male sexual entitlement to women’s bodies, a projection of his bitterness at the women who rejected him (though he mentioned none) onto all women everywhere. He told them that feminism–an ideology he still mostly supports!–convinced him to loathe his own sexuality and consider himself simultaneously sexually unworthy and sexually privileged, convinced him that the mere biologically intractable fact of his desire for women posed a harm to women that he wanted to avoid at any cost to himself (even chemical castration), and they responded by saying, “it wasn’t feminism that told you that, you entitled, unworthy, predacious, privileged, rapey oppressor, and daring to say it sucks to be male and shy and socially awkward and alone makes you even more of every one of those things feminism never told you about yourself. Signed – a feminist.”

The level of overt cruelty displayed by bigots like Amanda Marcotte is breathtaking. And as this blog post (long but well worth the read) by another Scott demonstrates, even the most reasonable of all the feminist responses to Aaronson’s pain is rife with plausible deniability and victim-blaming. “It wasn’t feminism that told you you’re a privileged, entitled, rapey creep, it was patriarchy. Also, women have it worse, so stop complaining, privileged man-baby. Also, your complaining oppresses women, so it’s no wonder they don’t like you, creep. Signed – a feminist.”

As Scott Alexander points out in his delightfully extensive blog post:

The problem is that nerds are scared and confused and feel lonely and have no idea how to approach women. From this root problem blossoms both Aaronson’s problem – that sometimes all you can do is go to a psychiatrist and ask to be castrated – and Penny’s problem – that other times people go read pickup artistry books that promise to tell them how the secret is “negging” people.

But Aaronson’s solution to the problem is to talk about it. And feminism’s solution to the problem is to swarm anyone who talks about it, beat them into submission, and tell them, in the words of Marcotte, that they are “yalping entitlement combined with an aggressive unwillingness to accept that women are human beings just like men”

And while Alexander goes to extreme lengths to deconstruct and discredit virtually every feminist assertion on this particular issue (with links to research and studies and all kinds of goodies for people who operate on facts rather than emotion), and while he accurately identifies much of the problem to be binary zero-sum thinking on the part of feminists (that is, one class is privileged and the other oppressed, therefore the suffering of one is by default less bad than the suffering of the other, even when we are forced to acknowledge it), he does not seem to see Marcotte’s final quoted sentence for the projection it is.

I mean, this proposition–that men do not consider women human–is the primary axiom of the feminist definition of “patriarchy,” which has been the dominant social system for as long as anyone can confidently determine. According to feminists, the entirety of history is one where men arbitrarily, capriciously and unjustly oppressed and subjugated women, treated them as nothing more than objects of sexual enslavement and domestic drudgery, for the privilege and benefit of all men.

So let’s unpack this. Men, all through history, were nursed by women as infants, had their boo-boos kissed by women, were cuddled to sleep by women, had their illnesses tended by women, formed their very first and most important (most important because an infant is entirely dependent on the woman who feeds and nurtures it) emotional attachments with women. And yet the men so overwhelmingly influenced by the care and nurturing of women for their formative years, indeed, the men who were molded in the cradle of female love, affection, care and forbearance, created a society that subjugates and oppresses all women for men’s privilege and benefit.

That is the real assertion Marcotte and other feminists have consistently been making since the Declaration of Sentiments of 1848: that men are so sociopathic and subhuman that they would, collectively, oppress and subjugate the very people they formed their most intimate and important emotional bonds with. That men are so universally beyond the pale that they consider the person who brought them into the world and was their sole tether to life for their formative years, and all others like her, as less than human, as a slave class, as undeserving of the smallest human decency or respect.

This is what feminism tells men about themselves (it’s what feminism told you about you, Scott Aaronson), and it’s what it tells women about men. Feminists like Amanda Marcotte (and the #yesallwomen and #notallmen hashtags, among others) just come right out and say it, and then pretend to be victims when men say, “we’re not like that.” And feminists like Laurie Penny, say, “well, men, you’re kinda sorta almost human at this point, unlike all the other men throughout history, but you could still do better,” all while portraying men as a class as uniquely capable of subhuman behavior and uniquely deserving of derision and scorn.

Alexander closes his blog post with this:

Once I see anyone, anywhere, publish an article that not only recognizes our pain, but doesn’t derail it into an explanation of why we’re definitely still terrible and there is no need whatsoever for them to change, then I will be more optimistic that progress is at hand.

This is one such article, but tellingly, it was written by an anti-feminist woman. And there lies the rub, and the kernel of the message I want you to hear:

You said that male nerds are not only more likely to be feminist than other men, but that the average nerdy man is more likely to be feminist than the average non-nerdy woman. The reason for this is not because non-nerdy women are less likely to consider themselves or other women human–it’s because they are more likely than feminists to consider YOU to be human, and therefore capable of seeing your mothers, sisters, daughters and wives as human beings.

Feminism’s most basic premises sees men and women as tribal adversaries when they never have been, not even prior to the emergence of homo sapiens sapiens, and they see men as the oppressors of women and women the slaves of men all through history when this has never remotely been the case. It is not men who see women as less than human–it is [female] feminists who see men as less than human, incapable of even the most rudimentary compassion for the very people in their lives they are closest to, and [male] feminists who are convinced to internalize this message not because it’s true, but because it is the opposite of true. It is because you see women as human, even more human than yourselves and more deserving of human dignity and consideration, that you have always felt you could never treat them as human enough.

They are using your compassion for women to convince you that all men (including you) hate women and so much they designed an entire form of social organization that dehumanizes women. It is because you have so much compassion for women, and so little for men, or even yourselves, that you are able to believe it.

You have seen these feminists retreat to their motte when such allegations are levied against them, but they live their lives in the bailey, Scott(s). In the bailey, men are universally privileged subhuman monsters who oppress, exploit and subjugate the very people they love, on a macroscale. And because you are so incredibly compassionate toward women, in your own minds, you could never consider women to be as human as they deserve, you could never treat women compassionately enough, while in the mind of a feminist, you, as a male, are entirely undeserving of anyone’s compassion because you’re a subhuman monster, as was every man who came before you all the way back to the cave.

So my message to you Scotts and all the other shy, nerdy males out there, just let it go. Not your pain. Not your suffering. Not your anger. Not the injury you feel when your disclosure of your most deep and intimate pain earns you little more than a more vicious public ass-kicking by the very people you have begged for understanding, feminists like Marcotte.

Let FEMINISM go. In its entirety. There’s nothing just or compassionate in it, and there never has been when it comes to mainstream feminism, not even as far back as the 1850s. There’s nothing real in it, only boogeymen designed to terrorize women and teach them to live in a state of heightened fear and learned helplessness, and the encouragement of scab-picking and the nursing and expanding of female grudges until they contaminate every facet of the relationship between men and women, and to whip men into guilt, shame and submission as the subhuman beasts they are.

Yes, sexism is real (against both men and women), and yes, gender roles are too rigid (for both men and women), but feminism provides no insight into the actual causes of any of it, and can therefore never provide an effective cure. All it provides for women is a sense of perpetual victimization and undeserved entitlement, neither of which will ever help women succeed, and all it provides for men is shame and self-loathing.

This is an intervention, gentlemen. I’m a bisexual, gender-queer, divorced mother of two sons and a daughter. I want them to inherit a world where the humanity of all people is respected and where all people’s pain can find a compassionate ear and some form of redress. Where even men are considered to be human beings, and where the content of a woman’s character rather than her pants defines what she is and can be.

An ideology that sees men and women as warring tribes, with men cast as the bourgeoisie and women as the proletariat, cannot and will not bring that world into reality. An ideology that sees men as subhuman and women as beyond human cannot and will not bring that world into reality.

So please, I beg of you, and of all the sensitive, wonderful, sweet, considerate, compassionate yet awkward men like you:

Let it go.

About Karen Straughan (aka GirlWritesWhat)

AVfM Contributing Editor Karen Straughan "Girl Writes What" is a middle-aged divorced mother of three who enjoys talking about herself in the third person. Her writing and videography on gender issues features in classrooms in high schools and universities on three continents. But she still has time for the little people, like Paul, and those other guys.

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  • Bora Bosna

    Wow. This hit home on so many levels. Excellent writing GWW

  • crydiego

    I give you a standing ovation for this, well worded, well intentioned, and insightful article. There it is! There it is for all to read and understand if they have the courage to embrace both men and women as humans deserving respect, –There it is!

  • driversuz

    Unparalleled takedown of the very heart Patriarchy, the heart that has been carefully hidden behind pseudo intellectual “concepts” and obfuscating language, for decades on end. Brava!

    • Jack Strawb

      A longer work on the subject might include samples of the lives of typical men throughout the centuries, showing how little they benefited from this mythical patriarchy (and the high price hundreds of millions of men paid to preserve and advance civilization).

  • doubting_rich

    One of the best articles I have read on feminism and the myth of the Patriarchy. Bookmarked for future reference when feminists mention Patriarchy.

    • Tony Tang

      If Karen writes a book called The Myth of the Patriarchy,I will buy it.

      • driversuz

        I’ll buy as many copies as I can afford, and leave them and leave them in cafes, laundromats, and waiting rooms all over my (university) town!

        • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

          And I will contribute plenty to a fund that ensures the books get placed in the hands of men and boys everywhere…one of the most important prospects that could turn this thing in our favor.

          We have GOT to get the average man educated. We can’t win without it, for it will be stupid men who will keep the selfish beast alive long after it’s stupid self has died from its own flaws.

      • Jack Strawb

        Since you mention it, that might be the single most important proof anyone could offer today towards the destruction of contemporary feminist ideology.

  • Graham Strouse

    You’re the best, Karen.

  • leolox

    In addition to Karen’s excellent essay I highly recommend the original blog posts. The “untitled” post by Scott Alexander is an epic take-down of feminist theories regarding “male privilege” and “sexual entitlement” (unfortunately, he also attempts to find common cause with feminists). I find it deliciously ironic that “nerds” — the same people who essentially made women’s lib possible by inventing birth control and labour-saving devices in the home — may also be responsible for fully debunking patriarchy theory. Nerds may not be adept with the ladies but if there’s one thing they’re good at it’s logic.

    • DukeLax

      “nerds” do not have a monopoly on logic, its a falsehood many nerds try and reinforce!!…

      But in fact some of the most prolific scientists were in fact independent / bad boys / types who think so outside the box that even youre geek versus bad boy paradigm seems primitive and low brow to them.

      • leolox

        Fair enough! :)

        • DukeLax

          sorry bro, i just get defensive over the whole geek = logic thing.

      • DukeLax

        But since the “geeks” who can replicate other mens formulas perfunctorily….seem to be the ones who gravitate toward American Quack-ademia….they are the ones who keep reinforcing the false paradigm that “geeks” ………….are more logical than most other men…..which is simply not the case.

  • Tony Tang

    Excellent work as always!

  • Bewildered

    Young boys were being weighed down with guilt about the crimes of
    their sex, she told the Edinburgh book festival, while energy which
    could be used to get proper child care was being dissipated in the
    pointless humiliation of men.

    “I find myself increasingly
    shocked at the unthinking and automatic rubbishing of men which is now
    so part of our culture that it is hardly even noticed,” the 81-year-old
    Persian-born writer said yesterday.

    “Great things have been
    achieved through feminism. We now have pretty much equality at least on
    the pay and opportunities front, though almost nothing has been done on
    child care, the real liberation.

    “We have many wonderful,
    clever, powerful women everywhere, but what is happening to men? Why did
    this have to be at the cost of men?

    “I was in a class of nine-
    and 10-year-olds, girls and boys, and this young woman was telling these
    kids that the reason for wars was the innately violent nature of men.

    “You
    could see the little girls, fat with complacency and conceit while the
    little boys sat there crumpled, apologising for their existence,
    thinking this was going to be the pattern of their lives.”

    Lessing said the teacher tried to “catch my eye, thinking I would approve of this rubbish”.

    She added: “This kind of thing is happening in schools all over the place and no one says a thing.

    “It
    has become a kind of religion that you can’t criticise because then you
    become a traitor to the great cause, which I am not.

    “It is
    time we began to ask who are these women who continually rubbish men.
    The most stupid, ill-educated and nasty woman can rubbish the nicest,
    kindest and most intelligent man and no one protests.

    “Men seem to be so cowed that they can’t fight back, and it is time they did.”

    ———— Doris Lessing

    • leolox

      Men can’t do it alone. Just as non-Jews are often vilified as “anti-semites” for criticizing Israeli policy, men are vilified as “misogynists” for criticizing feminism. That’s why women like Karen are so important to the struggle for men’s rights. Granted, such women may be accused of being victims of “internalized misogyny” (just as Jewish critics of Israel are accused of being “self-hating Jews”), but they are undoubtedly given a more sympathetic ear.

      Another honey badger, Alison Tiemen, often speaks of how feminism actually DISEMPOWERS women by encouraging an eternal victimhood complex. This is one of the most bizarre aspects of feminist ideology — it has achieved power through the ILLUSION of powerlessness. Many women have come to believe that they are damsels in distress in need of rescuing by the state, thereby RE-enforcing “traditional gender roles.” Feminism is a bundle of contradictions.

      I recently read a book about the American Indian movement in the 60’s/70’s. One line in particular was revealing from a gender POV: a prominent female AIM activist stated that women “should use their unique power” to help effect change. What!? You mean women have some sort of unique power relative to men? How can this be?

      Women need only RECOGNIZE their power and use it wisely. This means acknowledging female privilege where it exists, and not regarding the male sex as their enemy.

  • Bruce Raymond

    Karen, you are definitely one of my favorite authors. I love what you write! I think the nerdy men should go beyond just letting feminism go and continue on to MGTOW.

    MGTOW is the ultimate destruction of feminism. I’m very much in favor of what AVfM is doing, but I don’t think the real changes will happen until the average woman discovers that men have dropped out and starts to ask why. MGTOW is the answer.

    • Jack Strawb

      “I think the nerdy men should go beyond just letting feminism go and continue on to MGTOW.”

      As someone who enjoys the company of many non-feminist women and has enjoyed short and long term relationships with women, I don’t see MGTOW as the inevitable next step in a nerdy man’s evolution. It may well be, but there are other options. As someone with inept parents who taught me nothing about talking to girls or women, I assure you it can be an acquired skill.

      • DukeLax

        But jack…you gotta admit that todays gender-feminist bullies…do in fact target the sensitive / socially awkward / shy white boys , more than they attack anyone else!!

        • Jack Strawb

          Do they, though? They were taking some pretty nasty (if partly concealed) shots at men of color recently (the whole “street ‘harassment’ ” business). They’ve also gone after outgoing campus men, indeed all campus men. They’ve gone after fraternity men in particular (has any group of men been more maligned by feminists). They’ve also gone after the department of philosophy at Colorado U (iirc). No philosophy prof I know would call himself nerdy, fwiw.

          • DukeLax

            But those guys just look at white gender-feminists as “those cooky birds”…….and the ones that take it seriously and are affected the most by it, are the white geeky/ sensitive types.

      • Bruce Raymond

        It is an acquired skill. I’ve been married for 38 years and am still acquiring the skill :-)

        My personal take on, well everything is that the political class aligned with the feminists in order to subjugate men. Once that’s accomplished I expect the political class to throw the feminists under the bus and concentrate on subjugating women.

        I don’t believe much of anything will change as long as men continue to produce and the feminists and political class can enjoy the fruits of our labors. I believe that men have to withdraw their services as a necessary step towards effecting change. It doesn’t have to be MGTOW, but it does have to be withdrawal.

        • Jack Strawb

          Ordinary women overwhelmingly don’t identify as feminists and while they get a better deal than men are generally quite subjugated by the dominant political class in the US (corporate, far right).

          Women nearly as much as men suffer from stagnant wages, no pensions, a pathetic minimum wage that’s a low among the industrialize west, the lack of anything resembling a living wage, the lack of the ability to bargain collectively, difficulty accessing health care (though that’s improving), tied to jobs to keep health care (also improving, and it’s about effing time).

          • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

            Jack, as much as I like most of your comments when they aren’t endorsing the left, I have to ask you this question—one in which you do not have to answer—are you going to vote for HILLARY? A MHRA voting for a feminist icon and provide our opponents victory to do more of the same they love to do?

            Yes, the two sides are about the same when it comes to misandry but one sides parades actual hatred of men and boys around its neck.

            Fred jones, who spoke in Detroit, said, no matter what else, we MHRA’s MUST have our ultimate priority in order.

            He is right.

            Maybe we all should stop being partisan here and do like Crydiego said not long ago: ” leave our baggage at the door. ”

            From here on, I will. You?

      • artiefischel

        I can see it at least as a temporary step. These guys don’t have the defenses necessary to deal with women. They need to be comfortable as themselves and realize that being by themselves and for themselves is a perfectly valid mode of existence before they step out of that zone.

      • Lorenzo Benito

        I’m sure it is an acquired skill, but that brings up the question: why bother? What makes women so great, that we are all required to get advanced degrees in how to talk to them? I do not make an effort like this with men: every man (and woman too, actually) I am friends with I befriended precisely because it was easy and natural to talk to them, and no-one thinks this in unusual. Why do women deserve special treatment in this regard?

        • Jack Strawb

          Those are worthwhile questions.

          1) Whynot bother? I didn’t saw it was a complex or difficult task (which leaves me puzzled by your reference to ‘advance degrees’). In context, too, ‘talking to women’ is primarily about the first few minutes, where the norms of discourse differ. After that, we’re all just people.

          2) Why not bother? Women are half the human race. That’s a large part of the world to disengage from.

          3) Why do you refer to it as special treatment? When I learned French (not as well as I would have liked, granted) it wasn’t because the French are superior or because they deserved special treatment.

          4) Sure, you can choose to confine yourself to only those people with whom it is natural and easy to talk with right from the start. I’d find that needlessly limiting. One of the best male friends I’ve had, at the start of our long friendship we didn’t have much in common on the surface, so it was awkward the first times we tried talking. That’s not unusual with women, either, since if you’re both heterosexual sex becomes part of the equation (even if only to make clear that one or both of you aren’t interested), something the two of you have to navigate.

    • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

      !!!!!!

  • http://www.judgybitch.com/ Janet Bloomfield

    Bravo, Karen. As the mother of a son, I will be printing this off for him and his friends to read as they get older. The number of shy, socially awkward young men suffering under this hateful ideology can not be overstated.

    • DukeLax

      From what I’ve seen..the only defense a shy / awkward / white boy has against the white gender-feminist mob is to tell the gender-feminists that he’s not one of those “hetero-males”,………….. and the gender-feminists will than leave him alone, and look for another target.
      For some reason, the white gender-feminists don;t try and shame anyone else into rejecting their hetero-impulses…..accept the shy / awkward/ sensitive / white boys.

      I don’t know why this is, but I would find it a little disturbing if i had a young / white / impressionable sensitive boy in high school.

      • TheManWithNoHat

        If they attacked someone with darker skin everybody would be crying racism, and somebody with more self-confidence would tell them to shove it.

        • DukeLax

          exactly!!

        • Lorenzo Benito

          They do feel the same way about black men, but they have to be more circumspect about it. However, as we saw with the “10 hours of harassment” video, it does show through if you pay attention.

    • DukeLax

      I’m now starting to see that the gender-feminist bullies main target….is the shy / socially awkward / sensitive white boy. The gender feminist bullies don’t try and “Shame”…anyone else!!

      • TJ

        That’s because they awkward guys are an easy target and the feminists hate them because they are a stark reminder of what they will have to “settle for” when the guys they think they are entitled to ignore them and their bullshit.

        • DukeLax

          bingo

        • DukeLax

          the awkward / shy / sensitive white boys…are the low hanging fruit!!!

        • Lorenzo Benito

          I often say that most women are unable to perceive low status men as fully human. This is what allows them to perceive all the men who are at the top, but never remember all the men who are at the bottom (homeless, etc.). I hypothesize that this has a biological origin, an instinct that arose to prevent women from taking unsuitable mates. So, low status men, when they are thought of at all, are just creepy things that must be kept at a distance.

          In Feminists, this instinct (along with many other stereotypically female thought patterns) is expressed more strongly, which is why Feminists hate shy, socially awkward men. All the verbiage they regurgitate is simply rationalization (another thing Feminists are experts at).

          This might seem strange on first read, given how many stories we read nowadays about nerds who make it big in Silicon Valley, or failing that, the fact that most of the high paying jobs available these days are the kinds of jobs shy, socially awkward men are, seemingly, made for. But consider that human societies were not always this way. For most of human history, the path to high status for men was hunting and warfare, and the ancient equivalent of the modern nerd had very few options. This is why nerds are still looked down upon, whereas athletes are still venerated, even though the former are arguably far more important to society than the latter. Our economies have changed, but our psyches have not evolved far more slowly.

          Therefore, we have Feminists acting in very female ways: being passive, asking for favors and expecting men to provide them, and looking down upon what they perceive as low status men. Feminist Theory itself is just a handy collection of believable rationalizations for these instincts: “oppression”, “getting our own back”, “equality”, “nerds feel entitled to women’s bodies”.

  • mramra

    Hey Karen,

    awesome! However, I feel you describe a feel-good utopia at the end – certainly the right goal to strive for, but I think humanity is unfortunately not ready yet … we’ll see.
    I have seen your talk at ICMI’14 and I believe taking out feminism at its roots is the absolutely right – and a very important – thing to do.

    I already see some of them changing their narrative, shape-shifting, ‘assimilating borg brain regroup’, however you want to call it – and I fear that the current MRM will be yet another moment until feminism takes over once more, saying it took care for the boys all along…

  • Trevor Smith

    Very good work Karen. Indeed look at many of the recent feminist memes to consider how much they care about anyone but themselves: yesallwomen, heforshe, killallmen,dontbethatguy, the list goes on endlessly. This is not about gender equality and never was, the lie has been exposed and the emperor never wore any clothes
    . The nerdy guys, over-value women through their own self hatred, which is an edifice that is sure to crumble. That is often why, ultimately, these men reach a critical point where they can no longer reconcile the hyprocrisy, lies and misandry of feminism. There is a point where even their self hatred pales in comparison to the misandry of feminism, and they turn away in disgust. They should not even expect empathy from feminists. This is a group of women, who upon “emancipation” from the evil patriarchy, threw their own children under the bus the first chance they got. They have pushed for right to abort, initiated 75% of divorces where half the children will never see their birth fathers again, manipulated the legal system so that the fathers get shafted and moms win the lottery, throw young children to the care of others so they can go to work, bully young boys in the educational system, ignore their own physical assaults on young boys, encouraged sensitivity to post part um depression to justify hating their newborns.
    The recent explosion in interest towards the MGTOW movement seems to be an indication we are already close to that critical point.

    • Jack Strawb

      The nerdy guys also tend to have the equipment to figure out why it’s important to turn around and fight feminism. There is indeed hope.

      • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

        And since they are often used to being disliked by so many women, they have little to lose already.

        • Nephandus

          They can be demonized far more easily though, so socially we’re not only a free target but will be more viciously attacked by more people far quicker. It’s like being soaked in gasoline. It may be bad enough, but the potential’s far worse.

    • TheManWithNoHat

      I think part of that critical point is that the same women who have scoffed and laughed at them are now storming in with an ever-increasing list of demands, as if they’ve ever been anything but scornful towards them; similar to what happened with the GamerGate fiasco.

    • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

      MRA is one thing, whereas MGTOW is a “hole nuther level”.

      • Trevor Smith

        I disagree with the “hole nuther level” label. I think that is a label that has been fastened to MGTOW’s without validity. If you are going your own way, you move out of the reach and sphere of influence of a gynocentric culture that we inhabit. Therefore you are the most dangerous should others follow your lead, so label the individuals going their own way as nutcases or extremists and hopefully you have taken away their credibilty. Unfortunately, so many men dont care how the pro-female culture assesses them since they arent out for the overvalued commodity it offers. That being said, some MGTOW’s are still dabling woith females but on their won terms. And more guys are jumping on board, without Madison avenue level promotion, which tells you something very significant. That despite the stigma, and the withheld access to the over valued commodity of pussy, guys still want to go their own way!

        • Jack Strawb

          “Therefore you are the most dangerous should others follow your lead, so
          label the individuals going their own way as nutcases or extremists and
          hopefully you have taken away their credibilty.”

          I have to admit that for years I fell for just this sort of demonization wrt the MRM.

          The men’s rights movement is portrayed, very effectively and very damagingly, as a bunch of woman-hating and woman-fearing losers who want to roll back all the gains women have made since 1960. As little more than a bunch of angry clowns weeping over their lost foreskins. The mainstream media in the sense that it is dominated by feminism has been incredibly effective in this regard.

          I only found the MRM after reading Slate’s pieces on the Enliven project’s infographic on rape and rape victims. The feminist authors in its XX section went just a little too far and bent the truth a little too often. That in turn caused me to start tracking down things like the “1 in 5″ claim, and it all started to unravel.

          And that, in turn, caused me to click on a link I hadn’t previously bothered with, to one of those pieces claiming that in 15 significant quality of life issues men fare worse than women in 14 of them. It’s the kind of thing that while reading one goes, “Whoa. Hang on a minute. Where in this is all the privilege I keep hearing about, when men not only die five years younger than women, but that more money is spent on women’s health care even after accounting for reproductive and maternal care?”

          Even so, it wasn’t until around six months ago that I learned that women are responsible for far more abuse of children than men. Until then, based on what I had read in the mainstream, I would have guessed men are responsible for at least 3/4 of child abuse.

  • JackTar1798

    Thanks Karen for a great piece.

    What I learned from it is the importance of Objectification. Since men, in general, have a deep love and respect of women, how can that be reconciled with the supposed male hatred of women? Objectification! It so simple — men love women as objects, whilst simultaneously hating them as subjects — and we don’t even notice.

    Since most men are sexually attracted to women, you tell them that that attraction is Objectification, and voilà, case closed. Now you know your sexual desire is evil Objectification — no Church could do a better job.

    • Jack Strawb

      “It so simple — men love women as objects, whilst simultaneously hating them as subjects — and we don’t even notice.”

      One of the many ways feminism brings me sour amusement. This is the sort of rancid philosophical dualism resulting from a hate movement, a supremacist movement, that seeks to undermine one of the enemy’s best qualities. For feminism, all male emotions must be rooted in the desire to oppress and exploit women, hence this absurd straddling. The love of women is really hate, you see.

  • http://divergentnature.wordpress.com/ Ratha

    Beautiful! Well done, Karen.

  • PlainOldTruth

    Listen to the words — closely. They might remind you of some bigmouth antisocial Third Wave-Reich dames in the media.

    • DukeLax

      “hard hearted Hanna…the Vamp of Savannah”…..lol

  • mark mooroolbark

    How I wish you had a regular column in mainstream newspaper, Karen! Your wisdom and compassion for all would surely awaken our society to the truth of what you say, Thanks so much for your ongoing voice-your courage is inspiring.

    • leolox

      Who gives a shit about noose-papers? That’s old media, dominated by the 1% of plutocrats. Still, I would love to see Karen write a book. Based on what I have seen of her vids and essays she could debunk patriarchy theory in the first chapter.

      • mark mooroolbark

        Too often these superb articles are simply “preaching to the converted” and I want her message to reach a broader audience. Millions still read newspapers and are greatly influenced by what they contain.

        A book would be great but again, only those who are already supporters of Karen would buy it. Newspapers are read by those who are neutral or ignorant about the reality of feminism and they are the people who are most in need of an education. At the moment our papers are awash with feminist bigotry and no one calls it out.

        • leolox

          Fair enough. But the amount of time and money being spent on “cyberwarfare” by the Pentagon and CIA is illustrative. Old-timey noose papers are probably doomed to extinction at this point.

          • DukeLax

            The federal pork bloating of the pentagon, and the CIA…..will be shown to the rest of the world as to what happens when an industrial powerhouse such as the United states, goes into decline because its industry has been made to compete with 3rd world nations.

          • DukeLax

            The American industrial Elite made billions of dollars stripping American industry and moving it to 3rd world countries where the labor force will work 50 hours per week for 3 dollars an hour.

            But now the US is so broke (because its been stripped of jobs)…that it has to get federal pork bloating dollars ( put on the tab with china) just to buy these cheap / plastic/ disposable junk toasters……. coming from china.

          • Jack Strawb

            The US isn’t broke. No entity printing it’s own money is ever broke. There are other issues, of course, arising from owning your own currency.

            A national debt of around 75% of GDP is perfectly normal for sound, robust economies, so consider the current debt in that context. Furthermore, the course of the deficit would be reversed if taxes merely reverted to historical norms. They’re currently near postwar lows. It’s not really sustainable. It’s as if you kept deferring maintenance on your house to send your kids to Disneyworld every few months.

          • DukeLax

            We can engage in protocol perversions and semantics games until we are blue in the face……the reality remains that American industry has been stripped, and now decades later, we can no longer afford the cheap plastic toasters / shit / made in china.

          • Jack Strawb

            Except, we can indeed afford cheap plastic toasters and other shit made in China.

            Definitions and the accurate diagnosis of foundational economic problems really, really matter. Without correct analysis we can’t begin to know how to proceed, what to emphasize, what to fix, who to vote for.

            It matters, and it’s not merely semantics (though in a real sense, when it comes to communications, semantics is all we’ve got). It certainly isn’t games.

            Cheers.

          • Dusty Ayres

            I trust that you’ve noted that Obama’s policies have actually made U.S. manufacturing come back? Including the Big Three automakers?

  • RiseOfDivergents

    Karen is my favourite. She was the one who inspired me and directed me to MHRM. I read her again and again. Thank a ton.

    • Fatherless

      Me too.

    • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

      And she is certainly one of my heroes I celebrate when I speak of them in this movement. No wonder why she is wildly popular. The honesty she speaks is like water on the wicked witches.

    • DukeLax

      Karen is quite perceptive…as she distinguishes who are the most susceptible to gender-feminist Inflama-prop……………..which is the white / shy / sensitive/ male.
      I mean come one folks….who else has that kind of insight????? the lady can articulate what most have a hard time even comprehending!!!

      I say she if right up there behind sommers as far as the greatest thinkers in the US for 2014!!

      • Alex Cockell

        Doris Lessing also noticed it when she told feminists to lay off men in 2001.

      • Jack Strawb

        Duke, what work by Sommers do you particularly like or recommend? Thanks in advance.

        Oh, and Happy New Year!

    • LachRuhig

      Same here. I can say without a shred of hyperbole that her video about male disposability changed my life.

  • TLC

    ““It wasn’t feminism that told you you’re a privileged, entitled, rapey
    creep, it was patriarchy. Also, women have it worse, so stop
    complaining, privileged man-baby.”

    Men are commonly portrayed as wanting to be the “alpha male.” Feminists, on the other hand, are always telling us how much worse women have it than men.

    Apparently, women want to be the “alpha victim.”

    Just as there are benefits that come with being the alpha male–It’s good to be the king–so, too, there are benefits that come with being the “alpha victim.” Sympathy and lots of benefits from the government.

    • Fatherless

      Alpha victim. Excellent frame.

    • DukeLax

      “victim Olympics” was a phrase that was being passed around the MRM a few years ago.

  • Nate Jones

    Bravo. I’ll say without hesitation that feminism is one of the most malignant social ills humanity has ever faced, and its proponents are beneath contempt. They prove it with every word they utter, every truth they corrupt, and every change they make to government and to society. They appear intent on destroying humanity’s past but offer nothing to replace it with but distorted realities and misery.

    They are leading us by the nose to a dystopia their duped patsies can’t even begin to comprehend, and one which will take them completely by surprise. And every evil they inflict on the world finds a scapegoat in men and the bogeyman Patriarchy, allowing them to continue on unhindered towards the ultimate fempocalypse.

    • PlainOldTruth

      Truth! You are now on the Girlstapo list. Join the club.

  • DukeLax

    When Massachusetts was burning “witches” a few hundred years ago, it was rooted in 2, 14 year old girls running around making these accusations.

    Hundreds of years later, Looking back we say…that Massachusetts society must have been in a sort of “mass hysteria” to do that kind of wacky / barbaric shit.

    Its now 2014 / 2015……and Massachusetts is again balls deep in a sort of “mass hysteria”…but this round of “mass hysteria”…can be traced back to federal funding!!!

    • Seele

      The Salem trials was one of the many instances; in the 1950s, children in mainland China were encouraged to tell on their parents and they would be summarily executed for being anti-revolutionaries; as soon as it’s possible to be the accusers, and the accusations always believed, at no cost to the accusers themselves, it would be an atmosphere of terror that can not be easily lifted.

      I think I mentioned before that feminism is difficult to deal with as it’s a shapeshifter that contorts itself to fit any upper ground, real or imagined. But I believe it is gynocentrism that’s the social force to create a class of men who’re betas: beavering away, complying to what women claim to want, and if very lucky, might even get a few scraps thrown at them.

      • DukeLax

        bingo!!

      • DukeLax

        As Karen stated…its mostly the shy / sensitive/ geeky white boys who are most affected by todays gender-feminism.

        • DukeLax

          They get so wound up by gender-feminist “Inflama-prop: that they need medication just to remain calm.

        • Magnus

          And also the group most likely to follow feminists blindly.

      • Jack Strawb

        And the right screamed “Traitor!” and “Treason!” at anyone who questioned the bombing and invasion of Iraq; Americans were advised to keep a weather eye on their neighbors’ behavior as they were by Joseph McCarthy (R-Wisconsin) . This is always the stuff of totalitarian movements of all political stripes.

        edit: Huh. McCarthy succeeded Robert LaFollette and was followed by William Proxmire. That’s unlikely company, though I suppose Wisconsin’s political schizophrenia explains its role as both a home of organized labor and as kicking off the execrable career of Scott Walker.

  • Bob Loblaw

    Jesus this is the best article I’ve read on AVFM. Great work Karen!

  • PlainOldTruth

    This is it. The standard of discourse the MHRM has to offer. Ms. Straughan is really smart, has a firm command of critical thinking, has true grit (character), and is bountifully talented in both writing and in public speaking. She does not have a classy dogma compliance receipt (fancy ivy league degree), she is not a man and she is neither heiress or a spouse-supported bohemian writer. In other words, she is not the product of special conditions that would prepare her for such achievements as she has made. She is not, in social engineering newspeak “privileged,” even though she is, “cause she’s white.” (The idiocy of the p-word/p-idea is revealing itself, no?).

    The inattentive among us who habitually parrot the “privilege” slur rolled out a few years back (notably by the Duluth marxists) out to try to figure out how this “white” woman got to be good at this stuff. The marxist dumbed-down “privilege” notion will not explain talent, industry, profound meditation, courage, earned wisdom, etc., etc. The parroting the “male privilege/white privilege/heterosexual privilege” brain-rewiring propaganda talking points of the class-war mongers — merely, it seems, because the term has been so widely proliferated by now — will come back to bite anyone of use who is not authoritarianism-positive in the ass (I guarantee it.).

    Karen’s rhetorical care (and flair) deserves to be studied closely and emulated. It sets a standard we warriors in this information war (including me) need to strive to adopt.

    • crydiego

      I have to admit that I didn’t completely understand your first two paragraphs but the third compleatly won me over; well said.

      • Foamy Darkale

        so far as I interpret it, Duluth meaning only men are wrong (actors) versus women (the acted upon) in every situation. Marxists=socialists. persoanally I believe in a degree of socialism mixed in with a good amount of capitalism and a pinch of free market just to keep it interesting. But mostly all collectively working together for the same goals with a heavy/robust public review of performance. but hey screw me for thinking we need to work together sometimes right? :3

        So far as the second paragraph that lies in the realm of history and it needs to be unearthed and expounded upon shoving the track record of feminism’s misdeeds in the faces of these ignorant pups coming along claiming ‘that didn’t happen’.

        • Foamy Darkale

          by the by Crydiego, the Duluth Model is abit of witchdoctoring that shapes just about everything from media to scientific studies to even sentence structure.Try looking into it and pay attention to the wording of it. it was ‘invented’ in 1993 and so far as anyone can tell has bad results for males in every society it has been used in as well the damn thing is blatantly sexist.

          • Alex Cockell

            1983.

        • Andy C

          There is no such thing as a free market. Because some will get established and set about controlling the market. There will always be a controlling agent. The only question is about the source of the control.

          • Jack Strawb

            True, that. The number of elements required to establish and maintain an ostensibly free market are many, varied, and as you note all subject to manipulation and control.

            Currencies, ports, roads, communications, courts, police, national defense, and on and on and on.

            This is one of the signal failures of libertarianism, to adequately account for all these features of markets. That, and since I will be compelled to pay taxes towards each of these features, why a government focused on the formation and maintenance of free markets is superior to other forms of government.

          • Andy C

            A carefully tended market, like a well kept garden would be better than free. Free to be carefully tended by those at the top. Would you really rather a corporation, which in term is effectively a shield for those at the top. Which precludes them from most if not all prosecutions, seemingly. Thus also, responsibility or more importantly effective accountability for their actions. At least with a government some how people have it in their heads that governments should be accountable, even if they are too disorganised to hold them so.

    • Jack Strawb

      (notably by the Duluth marxists)

      “Duluth marxists”? Who are they?

      • sputnik

        “Duluth Marxists” are those who crafted the Duluth model, I presume. It worked in context. Otherwise, it’s like Lake Woebegone gone pinko. :-)

  • Aryan Jesuite

    I have heard it said that White males are suicidally altruistic ~ evolution made us this way for the survival of our clans and tribes in the colder climates. Now this altruism is being mislabeled as ‘white guilt’ and manipulated into political, legal, cultural and economic gains compensating those victims of the ‘evil white male patriarchy’ of which white males are guilty… When the altruistic builders of western civilization and culture are re-labeled and transformed collectively from the inside out, from altruism to guilt, then what’s next? Living down to the cultural and societal expectations of guilt and becoming gangs of outlaws? Believing the lies and becoming groveling manginas forever making reparations for all the ‘wrongs’ of our genetically flawed existence and history of hateful oppression? or maybe altruistic Men Go Their Own Way and avoid the hate as much as possible…

    • crydiego

      I believe the same is said about the men in every culture on earth. It is uncanny how much alike we all are.

  • DukeLax

    Karens a superstar, and may her writing career be fruitful!!

  • Chad_Nine

    Excellent article.
    I think feminists have gravitated towards abusing nerds because nerdy men lack the self-esteem to say No and walk away from the abuse. It’s tragic.

    • Fatherless

      Unless you fuck with their games.

      • Daniel Freeman

        It stands to reason that SJWs can’t comprehend passion for an abstract activity. They would have to experience it first. Oh wait… No, they just lack empathy for men.

  • Bombay

    The feminists will abuse everyone/anything they can for their cause. It is what they do. Some people are more vulnerable to abuse that others.

    • Paul Johnson

      I almost cried when Matt Taylor apologized. I’ve gotten this treatment before myself when I expounded my pain and frustration with the friend zone problems I was dealing with at the time. These vulnerable moments are signals for the cluster Bs to attack most viciously. They are without remorse, and they are cruel beyond description. And invariably what they attack with is retribution for their own beliefs and bad behaviours, ascribed to their victim.

  • jq747

    I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again.. feminists really are horrible people.

  • http://batman-news.com MGTOW-man

    Karen, they do not know how to “let it go”. They are clinging to losing. Their historically-evident and awesome love of women—proven by the giving of their very lives often—have been so hideously exploited by creatures who misunderstood liberty to mean an unbridled free-for-all to control and punish men for not having allowed women to run everything thus far in the world, has gotten most men completely having lost in their bearings. And the man-rules that males force on each other and that recipient males seem eager to absorb, further confine and doom them. Losing is all they know now.

    Unfortunately, they think they are winning because, well, they “get the girl” more often whereas the men who are honest with women fair less—EVEN IF THE FEMALES THE COWARDS WIN (buy) ARE MEAN ENOUGH TO BITE THEIR HEADS OFF.

    Change men change the world. Like you, I will not stop pointing my finger at them until they relent.

    Surely the future of boys is worth it, that is, if they are man enough.

    • Bora Bosna

      You have been saying “change men change the world” in a lot of comments and it is once again proven true in this article. I am beginning to understand what you mean.

  • DukeLax

    Karens future as a journalist / writer looks alot brighter than most other journalists who are merely writing articles to appease the mob mentality!!

  • DukeLax

    sorry GWW ….if i post too much on yer article, but i truly believe you should be right beside Sommers with the most forward thinking individuals of 2014.

  • Roby 83

    Scott Aaranson, you should understand that feminists hate you because you are a male:: if you excuse yourself and try to be nice, feminists bullies will attack you.

    • Magnus

      Its ironical isn’t it. Feminists demand men change into people more or less just as Aaranson, and when we men do we are still hated.
      Why? Because we aren’t the problem here.

  • sputnik

    Brilliant writing by GWW. Just brilliant. And just simply— correct.

    Now, if any readers here skipped the Marcotte article link, it is easily the most appalling thing I’ve read in a very damn long time. Here’s the comment I posted after it:

    Gods! This screed is as appalling as it gets. The sheer quantity of projection, imputation, and presumption, here, coupled with a cruelly inhumane lack of… not one tiny IOTA of human compassion and understanding… is so utterly, caustically… bone-jarring…

    Just bone-jarring.

    This woman is insane. Pathetically, but dangerously, starkly-ravingly insane.

    And I suppose that we have rawstory to thank for the exposé. So why’m I not feelin’ quite so thankful?

    Then I came back and finished this article. Projection, indeed! Aaronsson is merely opening up, and thus is revealed a human being, and I can relate: His experience was mine, if but to a much lesser degree, in my case. It has the ring of truth, subjective though it may be.

    Characters such as Marcotte, on the other hand, are literally — yes, literally — betrayng themselves as the cipherous excuses for humans that they are. She has lain herself open, and. there. is. nothing. left. there…

    Nothing. (A tiny nugget of fulminating sulphur, sputtering for dear existence, and then—Just let it go— fffft.

    • Jack Strawb

      “Now, if any readers here skipped the Marcotte article link,,,,”

      Skipped. I just can’t do it any more.

      Awhile back Marcotte was the first feminist other than the big names I paid any attention to and as I read I just went slower and slower as it dawned on me, “this is all lies and bullshit.” She’s one of those writers who oozes sleaze. In discussing “attempted sexual assault” becomes “sexual assault and rape” which then becomes “rape.” I’ve spoken with damaged women who get most of what they think they know from Marcotte and her ilk and the way those women’s fear and terror are played on and preyed on disgusts me no end.

      Marcotte is the worst sort of gender hustler, the sort of garbage who feeds the worst of her fans a steady diet of raw, festering meat. She never met an issue she couldn’t make divisive or slant so that it appeared men delighted in the suffering of women. If you read only the sites in which her work was featured it’s easy to see how you’d come away convinced that women in the West are horribly persecuted and in constant danger from the nearly all men who are little more than sociopaths. She’s sickening.

      • sputnik

        So you already got the message. I only became aware of Marcotte since I’ve been hangin’ here. I quickly discovered that she’s some serious bad news, but with this response by her to Scott Aaronson, I now view her as the lowest of the low.
        A. person. could. not. get. any. lower. One couldn’t profane this individual with language any further than she has already profaned herself. She’s a total implosion of a human being. Karmic toast.

        • Jack Strawb

          Nailed it. I believe the appropriate word is “scum.” Marcotte is scum.

          “…she’s some serious bad news,…”

          Yes, and actively so, as in actively harmful. She pits people against each other who in fact have far more common cause than cause for division, and as such postpones the day when we’ll be able to meaningfully address such as the rights of working people, the reduction of interpersonal violence, and actual rape prevention.

          Marcotte’s not an idiot, though. To give only one example of the harm she inflicts Marcotte has to know at some level that because of her and columnists like her there are thousands if not millions of young women who spend their college years terrified of going out at night, terrified to be alone with a man, terrified of taking that flight of stairs. How can someone knowingly damage other people so easily?

  • ComradePrescott

    It’s pretty hard to undo the damage, if I am more honest than I want to be. I’m a boy who grew up in Australia with exactly that sort of nonsense. And frankly, even though I kind of know all these things, it’s pretty hard not to feel pretty bad about things. If I switch off the computer, which I keep trying to do so I can have more of a life, it seems like basically everyone I have ever met hates me as rather quite a norm. Most of the people who have actually met me. And then otherwise people are mostly indifferent.

    I feel ungrateful that my father’s love is not enough, but it isn’t. Hate is not even too bad I think. I handle it pretty okay. The emptiness is pretty agonizing though. Isolation. I use to think it was something a person could just meditate on and get over. As time goes on I only feel worse.

    I’ve never had my head held in a toilet, but I think people can express their hatred and be cruel in many ways even if they aren’t bigger enough than you to just physically dominate you.

    Often I see this same sort of pain and the shutting down in other young men and I have tried to reach out at times, but there is something I notice. Friendship is important, to be sure, but men love women far more than they love men. A man doesn’t want a hug or a kiss from me. And I don’t want to give him one either. I have empathy and sympathy for him as my fellow human, but I can see that I can’t really make a connection with him anyway. I can hardly be a friend, if I tried very hard, but these guys, just as myself, are starved for loving and safe connections. This can create the more visible ultra desperate loser who is so starved for love he’ll die for scraps of it, but I think quietly alone at home sulks more who have been hurt enough that trying isn’t even worthwhile to them. Why try when a lifetime of experience has shown them that all efforts are punished and anyone who seems loving is insincere and acting on an ulterior motive.

    I can think of very few times in my life anyone was kind to me, even slightly, for any reason if they did not want me to suffer for their benefit if I don’t include my father. I can definitely understand not being able to believe in sincere kindness or love when it finally appears since I myself, honestly, cannot. My own mother hated me, and then so did everyone else I ever met after that. My father loved me, but the exception doesn’t make the rule and everyone tried to keep him away anyway.

    But I’m rambling now. I don’t even know what I’m saying anymore. I’ll just say good post Karen and stop.

    • Bryan Scandrett

      Where abouts in OZ are you at?

      • ComradePrescott

        Melbourne. Are you Australian too?

        • Bryan Scandrett

          Brisbane

    • Magnus

      ” Friendship is important, to be sure, but men love women far more than they love men.”

      This is true, well partly. Love is probably the wrong word. I think men desire attention from women more than they want friendships from men… and then call it love.
      Thing is, most of these guys end up just as empty and miserable. I have seen one to many guys kick their friends under the buss if it means they can get a girlfriend… but girlfriends don’t last forever.

      • ComradePrescott

        I think the English language simply fails us on matters of love. I love my brothers, even the fraternity I have with men who are not my biological brothers, but this is difficult to describe in a single word in English. Most of that stuff is “gay” and will result in other men being reasonably put off.

        But where I will argue with you is that those men that you mention are not getting actual love from a woman. I agree that it is a mistake to throw your friends under the bus, whether the woman is good or not, but they end up empty and miserable because they are so desperate that they will allow themselves to be conned and not because a woman’s love isn’t what they really want.

        • Magnus

          You are right about the word “love”. As a none English native it always annoys me that there isn’t really a word for the situation of “falling in love”, you know that period were you are crushing so hard on someone and is all irrational, as opposed to the “brotherly love” you described, or the love you have for a long term partner. (Which is different from the initial love surge)

          That said, we tend not to tell other people than family and partners that you “love them” in Norwegian either.

          As for friends VS girls: I agree, most people who will ditch their friends for “love” are tricking them selves and are so easily manipulated.

          • Nephandus

            Limerence is the unofficial shrink term. Or you could use love style terms such as Eros, though Storge was an odd choice to refer to what should be Philia.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_styles
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philia
            There is an advanced stage of Eros that continues limerence without Mania, unlike how most people burnout then play house in the ashes and call it “mature”.
            http://scan.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/01/05/scan.nsq092.full

            Personally, I never experienced Philia in my life, and Storge didn’t survive childhood. The only playmates I ever missed were girls I had an infatuation with if not a crush on, so I can definitely agree that I’ve no direct/personal emotional use for males nor any such potential for non-attractive females, which just gets more fun the older I get…

          • Magnus

            I’m sorry, those words just don’t work. As they are definitions, not words. You would never say “I’m in limerence with you”… yes there is a word for the actual act of “falling in love” but it’s not something to be used in daily speech.

          • Nephandus

            Uh, “crushing on” and the like would be the vernacular, and words are definitions. Otherwise, they’re gibberish.

          • Magnus

            As I said there isn’t really a good word for it in English :) (Then again Norwegian use the same word for a hell of a lot of things, so we aren’t much better)
            To crush on is in my mind a little different, it’s similar but a poor substitute. Oh well :)

            And yet words are definitions, but some definitions are clinical and descriptive rather than something you’d actually use in a normal sentence as a statement of how you feel :)

          • Nephandus

            Crush has been overused in the last decade or so, but, other than lacking any indication of mutuality, it means falling in romantic love as limerence.

            I prefer my “definitions” to be descriptive thus use plenty of clinically/academically accurate terminology when available. Stating how I feel would be easier with more such words (and more people with sufficient vocabularies capable of avoiding culturally loaded language that unrealistically limits context to norms).

          • Magnus

            Thats the thing though “forelsket” the norwegian word, is often associated with being mutual. It doesn’t have to be, but it can be.
            Often if it’s not mutual we will add a descriptive word like “hopeless” or “distance” to it, to indicate what sort of “forelskelse” it is.

  • Magnus

    “it is [female] feminists who see men as less than human, incapable of even the most rudimentary compassion for the very people in their lives”

    It’s funny, after I discovered the MRM, and really started to think about gender dynamics, I became more of a humanist, not less.

    Firstly I started to view men in a better light. No longer was I one of the purple poodles that thought I was better than all the “manly men” who were just womanizing pigs. No, I saw them as equals. I saw my fellow brothers as just as trapped within the same feminized world as I, and them trying (and sometimes failing) to navigate this world.
    No longer did I need to hate those guys who hurt the “poor women” because I started seeing that most of these women hurt them selves through their actions and in actions. People get dealt shit hands in life, but not due to their gender.
    At the same time, I stopped viewing women as this (un)obtainable prize (like feminists say they want me to stop doing, but rally who are they kidding?). Why? Well I stopped being an apologetic for their bad behavior.

    All in all the MRM did in about a year what feminism tried and faild for 30 years: Make me view both genders as human… as equals

    • Bryan Scandrett

      “Firstly I started to view men in a better light”

      Me too.

    • Michael Shur

      Me too.

  • donzaloog

    Excellent article, Karen. These nerds need to learn.You don’t ever apologize to feminists. Ever. They hate you just for existing. They hate you down to your core. Even if you gave them every single thing they want, they will still hate you. Men in general need to get over that biological need to appease women. Walk away from toxic women. Live for yourself.

  • Andy C

    I thought feminists didn’t see men as human, because patriarchy.

  • Keddy43

    Wonderful piece Karen, as always, erudite, clear and utterly irrefutable in it’s reasoning and logic. brava!!

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

    ..

    • Graham Strouse

      It’s a giant clown head with two huge testicles for ears! Wait, this isn’t a test? Bugger…

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Paul Elam

        Actually, it is a test. Find the penis in the thermonuclear explosion.

        • DukeLax

          find the phallic structure

          • Seele

            According to some, everything is phallic.

        • John Rbe Gray

          I can see a clown’s face with a huge grin… No penis though …

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ Dean Esmay

      There goes Paul Elam, making his terrorist threats again.

    • Viredae

      Not sure if this is referring to Karen dropping the bomb on the subject, Paul’s mind being blown, or just the volume of his laughter.

  • BiggerThanUorI

    It’s pleasing to see the scientists and nerds smoking the rambling feminists and sjws in the comments, but the latter won’t learn and nerds are still outnumbered. It’s 2015, we have the information age, but there’s still lots to learn.

  • Daniel Freeman

    I suppose they might as well attack all of STEM, since they’re already attacking atheism, gaming, and science fiction. Any nerds that aren’t actually in those groups must at least know someone that is, so they would run the risk of a scientist or engineer being exposed to the debunking first, before even hearing their raving madness firsthand. Still, I think that they’re biting off more than they can chew.

  • iggy

    As always, very insightful article that Karen put together here. Predators use the compassion of their victims to get what they want. Feminism is predation on the compassion of men. The cure for feminism is not the hatred and distrust of women… no… it to STOP hating and distrusting yourself and other men.

  • John Rbe Gray

    Karen! truly fantastic writing, you are a wonderful human being!

    nice one babycakes!

  • Hlaford

    I can so much reflect in this.
    I’m a nerd and introvert, and much of my youth was spent in fighting that curse. OK, science is rewarding on its own, but not nearly enough to make one wholesome.
    I healed my sores, and I’m in a healthy marriage now, much like the above mentioned Scott.
    For what it’s worth, the women in STEM are awesome. The vast majority of them. There must be something anti-bimbo in the whole attitude of studying STEM fields. They are not brat-friendly at all. There are no kinda, sorta, whatever… solutions there.
    Thanks.

    • Lorenzo Benito

      Well, considering how incompetent Feminists tend to be, I am hardly surprised. Think back to all the Feminists campaigns you can remember. When I do that exercise, I find that they are all variations on the same theme: if you see something you don’t like, complain as long and as loudly as you can until a man comes over and fixes it for you. Any environment that requires people to pull their weight will be completely inaccessible to this sort of person.