welcome on blackboard

Jezebel’s Kate Harding joins the MRM

Well, almost.

TLDR;

Kate Harding, a feminist contributor at Jezebel has stated the following.

  • Jezebel contributor Kate Harding has admitted the major issues addressed by the men’s rights movement are legitimate and correct;
  • Jezebel contributor Kate Harding is pretending that feminism has not opposed the human rights issues of the MRM she now acknowledges as legitimate;
  • Kate Harding of Jezebel admits that the MRM is a strictly nonviolent movement;
  • Jezebel contributor Kate Harding has attempted to claim that she, and feminists in general are responsible for the current successes of the MRM in mainstreaming many of this movement’s issues, including father’s rights, reciprocity in DV, the invisibility of violence against men, etc;
  • Kate Harding, and likely the editors of Jezebel are also evidently frightened by their loss of the feminist monopoly on public gender discourse, as evidenced by a public temper tantrum laced with repetitions of: “Fuck you MRAs”.

 

Feminists are now claiming credit for MRA successes. Kate Harding, a commentator on Jezebel.com, has a few warm words for all of us in the men’s rights movement.

Fuck you, she says.

She gives herself an out, wrapping her diatribe in plausible deniability by announcing that it is the site’s “first annual week of desperate emotional cleansing and unhinged psychic purging.”

If Harding needs to practice some necessary mental hygiene, (she does) I’d much prefer it not be attached to the human rights movement of which I am a part.

However, putting aside the excuses for incoherence, the first paragraph of Harding’s absurd rant encapsulates an emerging change in feminist tactics.

 

Fuck you, first of all, for making it nearly impossible for decent men struggling with abusive partners or unfair custody arrangements to get the help they need and deserve. You have forever tainted those issues with your rage-filled, obsessively anti-woman horseshit, to the point where it’s become difficult for any rational, compassionate person to trust a man who claims he’s been screwed over in family court or abused by a female partner, even if he has.

Kate Harding is trying to position feminism as the driver behind the accomplishments of the men’s rights movement,such as bringing to public notice the anti-father bias in the family courts. According to Harding, we are screwing up the noble efforts of feminists to bring attention to men’s issues.

You read that right, the feminists have figured out they are losing ground rapidly. In response, they are trying to put themselves in front of the parade. They are literally switching sides, and hoping nobody notices.

I suppose we should invite Kate Harding to join the AVFM’s and the NCFM’s Judicial Activism Committee. Perhaps she can help us in the disbarment of the next corrupt family court prosecutor.

Hi Carletta.

I couldn’t make this stuff up, and no, AVfM has not recently partnered with The Onion.

According to Harding:

 

That’s the thing, MRAs. By and large, American feminists are really into equality, involved fathers, justice for all, dismantling bullshit gender roles, and helping folks leave dangerous relationships. We would be the natural allies of MRAs, if MRAs were sincerely committed to the causes with which they claim to be chiefly concerned.

Silly me, and here I was thinking that feminists opposed the decades of struggle of men’s and fathers rights activists for legal recognition and equality under the law.

Oh, wait, they do.

Quoting Gloria Woods of the Michigan chapter of NOW:

 

Michigan NOW opposes forced joint custody for many reasons: it is unworkable for uncooperative parents; it is dangerous for women and their children who are trying to leave or have left violent husbands/fathers; it ignores the diverse, complicated needs of divorced families; and it is likely to have serious, unintended consequences on child support.[3]

In other words, fathers gaining shared custody might impact the amount of money divorcing wives can shake them down for. Stop the bad menz!

But surely, the feminist position of the 1990’s was just a blip in an otherwise egalitarian movement, right?

Barry Nolan, a Boston columnist and feminist wrote this earlier in 2012:

 

Angry, radical men’s groups believe males are being victimized by out-of-control judges and politicians. They’re wrong and they’re dangerous and they need to be stopped.[1]

According to Nolan, we’re wrong, dangerous, and we need to be stopped. Mary Kellett, the Ellsworth County Assistant D.A. recently recommended for suspension by the Maine Overseers of the Bar probably thinks so too, as does her boss, Carletta Bassano.

Contrasting Mr. Nolan’s idiotic lies, a small detour into another oppositional ideologue’s attack on the MRM is worth revisiting.

 

It should be mentioned that the SPLC did not label MRAs as members of a hate movement; nor did our article claim that the grievances they air on their websites – false rape accusations, ruinous divorce settlements and the like – are all without merit.[2]

That’s what Arthur Goldwag of the SPLC admitted in the middle of his backpedaling after publicly crapping the bed in an inept attempt to paint AVFM as a hate organization. I don’t know if the SPLC is still publicly partnered with radicalhub – where Pam O’Shaughnessy’s 4000 word cheerleading for male exterminating eugenics is still proudly hosted.

But according to Kate Harding of Jezebel, “By and large, American feminists are really into equality.”

Of course they are. And now that we’re winning, Kate and her comrades would like to quietly change their stripes to match ours, and pretend our fight was theirs all along.

Of course, in her enthusiasm to type the phrase “fuck you” as many times as possible, Harding makes a huge number of concessions, not just admitting most of the broad arguments made by the MRM are entirely legitimate, but actually trying to claim support for them.

You’re a bit late to the party Kate, but come on in, put your beer in the fridge.

Unfortunately, although conceding the legitimacy of the arguments of this movement, she’s not quite ready to let go of her feminist tendencies to field straw man arguments; to mischaracterize and attribute sinister motives to MRAs. In fact, although seeming to position herself to claim credit for successes of MRAs, she takes several paragraphs to outright lie, presenting feminist-distorted versions of many issues discussed in the men’s rights movement.

Harding claims that addressing the male half of victims of domestic violence, or the substantial fraction of sexual assault and rape impacting males constitutes “trying to make it all about [men]”.

Considering that feminists discussing violence seem incapable of doing so without the limiting clause “against women”, the accusation “Fuck you for showing up every time women speak, especially about rape and abuse, and trying to make it all about you,” seems more like projection than observation. In addition – the mention of “every time women speak” is a well-worn rhetorical trick. It is the conflation of feminism (an ideology) and women (a group of people).

Apparently, Kate Harding is not aware that these two things are not interchangeable, and that a growing number of the women she attempts to lay claim to are rejecting her violent, hateful ideology of gender. In fact, a growing number of women are MRAs.

Harding also characterizes any mention of the feminist hero Marc Lepine not conforming to feminist narrative as “derailing”. Unfortunately, Lepine committed his public muder-suicide 23 years ago in the Canadian province of Quebec, due at least in part to his own dysfunctional and abusive upbringing.

Hanging his behavior on the door of every male human being is an act of nearly transcendent dishonesty and depravity, and attributing his actions to men, or to the MRM is frankly craven. Pointing this out, or pointing out any of the relevant details of Gamil Garbi’s life which influenced that unfortunate outcome is “derailing” according to Harding.

Any examination straying from approved, sanitized, women-are-victims-men-are-evil standard narrative, that’s not allowed.

She also demonstrates difficulty with her reading comprehension. MRAs, according to Kate Harding, want a cookie for not killing anyone. While it’s heartening to see she finally grasps the fundamental ethic of nonviolence of the MRM, we don’t want cookies, we want the basic human rights which women in the 21st century take for granted. Equal provision as victims of violence, basic reproductive rights, the restoration of presumption of innocence in the courts, recognition as human beings apart from male utility as providers of labor and money for other people’s benefit, and as designated sponges for and dispensers of violence. Those things are not a cookie, Kate.

However, in spite of her many lies, and her tendency to impute motive, Harding is at least mouthing the words of agreement with many of the issues of the MRM.

Unfortunately, she disappoints in her claims that the violent and hateful screaming abuse at the November 16 U of T event have now received death threats. This is a case of the Jezebel who cried wolf.

To understand the “cried wolf” reference, a little back story is necessary.

In the summer of this 2012, I was personally invited by email to participate in a debate, proposed and organized by Jessica Mason-Paull on the topic of “has feminism gone too far?”

I Accepted immediately, but within 24 hours, Mason-Paull had cancelled the event, after receiving death threats for daring to propose such a blasphemous topic.

Jezebel published that those threats had been from MRAs after it was already published by feminist blogs in Vancouver that they had made those threats themselves, posing as MRAs, to silence and intimidate Mason-Paull (and to silence others).

Harding, now writing for Jezebel claims: “Fuck you for making rape and death threats against young women who dared to protest a speaking engagement.”

Do I believe there’s internet trash talking from uninformed bystanders? Certainly.

Do I accept the claim that a Men’s Rights Activist is making death threats? No, because it’s nonsense. In fact, it’s such obvious nonsense I wonder that Kate Harding is not embarrassed by her own much recycled damselling.

In addition, Kate’s claims about Dr Warren Farrell – as an advocate of incest are simple lies. Farrel did 7 years of research on that topic, and one of his most surprising findings was that in some cases, sexual contact between parents and children were seen by those children as positive. He was as shocked and surprised as anyone else, and he documented those findings in the neutral language of a professional scholar. He certainly did not advocate any such contact, nor did he claim “little girls would enjoy being raped by their fathers.”

The sordid characterization of such claim reflects the leanings of Harding, and of the source she cited, notably not the published work of Dr. Farrell.

Strangely, Harding precedes each item in a long list of well-documented problems addressed by MRAs with it’s own “fuck you”. Despite her article’s early acknowledgement of the legitimacy of many of the causes of the MRM, she lists many more, pretending they are fictional. Almost as-if she’s providing an invitation for a MRA to cite examples of each item she pretends doesn’t exist. I suppose, under the editorial guidelines of Jezebel, she can’t just come right out and advocate the MRA position directly.

For example:

Fuck all of you for doing your very best to propagate myths that make it harder for women to be safe—that we’re a bunch of lying temptresses who bang hapless men and file bogus rape charges for the lulz

Yeah, that never happens.

UConn Student Accepted Into Program After False Rape Complaint

http://articles.courant.com/2012-12-12/news/hc-storrs-uconn-false-rape-complaint-1213-2-20121212_1_university-of-connecticut-police-false-statement-warrant-states

Lynette Lee Filed False Rape Claim Over Bad Sex: Cops

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/lynette-lee-false-rape-claim-bad-sex_n_2238263.html

Cornell attempted rape claim a lie, police say–but not sure if they’ll charge woman who made the false report

http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2012/09/27/female-reports-attempted-rape-near-engineering-quad

Woman who falsely claimed she was raped by three men because she regretted having sex with them jailed for two years

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204712/Woman-falsely-claimed-raped-men-regretted-having-sex-jailed-years.html

Harding continues:

 

…or that we get into perfectly even fights with our hardworking, loving husbands, then call the cops and have them arrested because we’re spiteful bitches.

I don’t know whether Harding or anyone else is a spiteful bitch or not. But her disposition, bitchy or otherwise, is irrelevant when considering human behavior across a wide culture.

Almost all domestic violence programs, including that informing the procedural guidelines for police responding to domestic disputes uses the Duluth Model as a theoretical foundation. The Duluth model is a pseudo-academic item of feminist fantasy, dressed up in scholarly language, but claiming that all violence is male, even female perpetrated violence. The result of this being that in many cases where men are the victims of domestic violence, or if they are accused of participating in DV – they are arrested based on profiling by an anti male ideology, and not based on evidence or traditional police work.

For Kate Harding to paint over this is simply absurd. She is a joke.

She doesn’t come right out and use the word “Sammich” but she comes close.

According to Harding:

 

[MRAs] are chiefly concerned with one thing, and one thing only: Putting feminists in their place. Which is in the kitchen at best and in the ground at worst, if you ask these unapologetically misogynistic bags of rot.

Sadly, she appears to have grown so careless that she’s gotten sloppy. We (apparently) want to put feminists in the kitchen?

“..Putting feminists in their place. Which is in the kitchen at best..”

I thought the standard lie was that we want to put /women/ back in the kitchen? Feminists and woman aren’t the same thing, after all. One word refers to the followers of an ideology, the other identifies people by sex. I certainly don’t want Ideologues in my kitchen, or anywhere else in my home. And If we really did hate women as much as it’s claimed, how would that work with keeping them in our kitchens? If I hated some group, wouldn’t I want to keep them away from me?

But she’s not done yet. If not in the kitchen, we want to put “them” (feminists? Women?) in the ground.

Ooh that sounds scary and dangerous, but didn’t Harding come right out and admit earlier in the very same article that MRAs are explicitly opposed to violence? Well, not quite, but she came close, saying “because you [...] want a fucking cookie for not killing anyone.”

As before, it’s not a cookie we want. But public recognition as a strictly non violent human rights movement is progress, now that Kate Harding has acknowledged it, albeit grudgingly.

And in an article with entirely too much nonsense to parse it all, I’ll skip to one other item of note.

 

Your feminist enemies don’t hate men; we only hate men who proudly stand up for the rights of abusers, rapists, and deadbeat dads.

This claim illustrates something truly sinister in feminist rhetoric and thinking. The idea that an individual accused of a crime is simply guilty by virtue of the accusation. That’s the word “rapist” in Harding’s piece, accused, therefore a rapist. Oh yeah, and what about female rapists? While we don’t think kindly of them, they’re still humans with rights.

Similarly, “deadbeat dads” is another vicious item of invective too often applied to men punished and maligned not because they are irresponsible shirkers but because they have been stripped of their incomes, homes and children and encumbered with an onus to pay exceeding their income.

And yes, we even stand firmly on a principled defence of the rights of abusers. ‡‡ Like the young woman who screamed “fucking scum” at a man attempting to discover answers to why his two friends had commuted suicide. It is her right to broadcast her opinion to the world, and we may criticize her, we would never consider silencing her – or denying any human right to anyone.

Finally, according to Harding:

 

The simple fact is, most men don’t beat, rape, or resent caring for their own children, and thus have no need for the kind of support and “activism” you specialize in.

Actually, this reality, admitted by Harding – that most men are decent human beings – informs the urgency and the need for what we do. There aren’t many of us (MRAs), but that’s changing rapidly, and we will not stop. Especially since it’s obvious now who is winning: the side actually arguing for human rights. Even feminists like Kate Harding are now trying to switch sides.

And obviously, if Miss Harding would like to publicly and clearly adopt a position in favor of the issues she’s admitted, the real concerns of this movement, (reform in the family court, in government or education) she’s welcome to contact this site’s editorial board as a prospective contributor.

Summary:

  • Prominent feminists are now aware of the growing success of this human rights movement, and publicly recognize the legitimacy of the core issues of the MRM;
  • These feminists are now scrambling to pretend that they, and their movement have not opposed these human rights issues;
  • In fact, feminists are now likely to claim that the successes of the MRM, which we achieved despite continuous and relentless opposition from feminists and their organizations – feminists are now pretending these were their fights all along;
  • Feminists – including Kate harding of jezebel are now pretending that the MRAs who achieved the small successes towards human rights for men and boys are (according to feminists) /hindering/ the brave, noble and egalitarian feminists pretending now, to have always supported these issues they now publicly recognize as real;
  • Although feminists are now pretending to have been on the side of human rights all along, they’re as yet unable to stop lying about MRAs, and falsely attributing a motive of evil to us. Baby steps for them, baby steps;
  • Kate Harding is invited to contribute as an author at AVfM.

 

‡‡ the double dagger symbol denotes a quote-mining opportunity, allowing an easy point of reference for partial citations and mis-representation of intent by critics or oppositional writers .

[1] http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/2012/08/angry-men-feminist-agenda/

[2] http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/05/15/intelligence-report-article-provokes-outrage-among-mens-rights-activists/

[3] http://now.org/nnt/03-97/father.html

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  • http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

    “Kate Harding, and likely the editors of Jezebel are also evidently frightened by their loss of the feminist monopoly…”

    I’d like to buy two hotels on Park Place for the “Patriarchy” to stay in. :-)

    Just kidding, as we all known the vast majority of men don’t have that kind of “power and control” as gender feminists have fraudulently claimed. The vast majority of males are struggling against all the traditional oppressions that have been around a long time, and also all the numerous new oppressions created by gender feminist influence in policies and laws such as Title IX and VAWA – to name just two.

    I’m not sure what new directions the historically, fraudulently-based, gender-feminist ideology is trying to take, since they can no longer put the cat back in the bag regarding male issues, but know this gender feminists, the MRM will continue to be there to meet any future gender feminist obfuscation with the truth, written large and spoke loudly, IMO. :-/

    http://tinyurl.com/6ze7n6

  • Zarathos022

    Fuck you too, Kate Harding and every other feminazi like you.

    • Zarathos022

      Also it fucking astounds me that they all of a sudden care about male victims about of domestic violence when they write piece of shit articles like this:

      http://www.jezebel.com/294383/have-you-ever-beat-up-a-boyfriend-cause-uh-we-have?tag=gossipdomesticdisturbances

      • Stu

        There bullshit decodes like this.

        “We care about all victims of DV, including men”

        “But there are no male victims of DV”

        “Another guy headbutted his wife’s fist breaking her hand today, violence against women blah blah blah”

        • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

          Hahahahahahahahaha, right on Stu; this backpedaling must be a unique new experience for them as they now have to temper their message.

          JTO: 10,000 points on this article

          KH: 1 point for having a vajayjay; not much else.

          • Steve_85

            No points for a vagina. In fact a lot of my friends would say MINUS points for having a vagina. I personally am indifferent. But you get no points for being born a woman.

          • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

            @Steve

            Merely being beneficial on behalf of our “guest” so she feels like its home; all patriarchy and no hyperbole.

            Hehehehehehehehehehe, maybe a imaginary lifetime membership to Jenny Craig?

    • http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

      If it weren’t for all the actual lives destroyed (mostly male) by the evils of gender feminism, I’d choose to approach this latest gender feminist double-speak and deception with a calm and dispassionate demeanor, however…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtfCRaNg5EU

      http://tinyurl.com/77sbg9u

  • Stu

    Wow, how about that. So we are going to see huge feminist marches in the streets soon, demanding a male pill for a start I suppose :)

    • http://www.genderratic.com typhonblue

      A slut walk with a coherent mission statement and intelligible goals that don’t involve Pretty Wealthy White Woman Problems?

      Hm. I think that might qualify as one of the signs of the apocalypse.

  • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

    Great article, John. It is quite amusing to me. The stink of fear is all over Harding’s article.

    Now, in the most pathetic way imaginable, feminists will react to the growth of the MRM by claiming ownership of issues they have been actively trying to silence for two generations.

    We are about to watch them try one more time to rewrite history; to tell the world that they are advocates for men and boys and always have been.

    Only this time, their lies will not be met with silence.

    No, Kate, Fuck YOU.

    • Stu

      Actually I doubt it Paul. There may be a piece written here and there, mostly full of contradictions, but their actions will speak loader then their words. They will continue to oppose any rights for men at all, and continue their mission to erode the rights of men and boys, while paying a bit of lip service. I don’t think this is anything new. Feminists have always claimed they are egalitarian, while pushing laws through like VAWA, The Plan, etc. Just more double speak from the Ministry of Truth.

      I’m betting one wouldn’t have to research very much to find examples of Kate opposing the very things she claims feminists support regarding mens rights. And same goes for all the politically active feminists. There wouldn’t be many that can claim a lack of opposition to the issues of the MRM without wearing egg on their faces.

      In fact, there wouldn’t be many that aren’t on the record demonizing and vilifying men with statements that would be considered hate speech if they were directed at any other group in society. There is good reason why they stick to “the evil white male” rhetoric. There is no other group that you are allowed to demonize. You can’t say this shit about anybody else.

    • Bev

      Rewriting history is the hallmark of feminism.
      Her article is just the outing of a trend I have seen for a while in comments by feminists.
      “We are all about equality for women and men”
      “feminsm is good for women and men”
      “feminism has freed women and men from social constructs”
      “feminism increases women and mens choices”
      Five years ago the word men did not appear in any of the above statements.

      Feminism is a chamelon and has always been one.

      • Roger O Thornhill

        Hi Bev,

        That’s a very good and interesting point you make about feminist slogans slowly beginning to include men in them.

        Does any other product exist that over half the population knows doesn’t work for the whole population?

        I would really love to see how they attempt to prove those slogans are true and what’s more start using them.

        I think B.A.T. and P.M. would have a better chance at turning public opinion around with their products!

      • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

        First we change the way they talk. Next we change the way they act.

        The MRM is robbing them of the ability for shameless female centrism. They will go through a period of parroting a different set of words so they are not so obvious.

        But that will catch up with them, too.

        Eventually, I do believe we will see feminist activism on behalf of real men’s issues because that is the corner in which we are going to help them paint themselves.

        Doing that, which they will be forced to in order to survive, will cause a lot of disharmony. There is already some slight evidence of that divide coming, and I don’t just mean people like Elly Tams putting them in the rear view.

        At GMP almost all the more mainstream feminists jumped ship, the unspoken but true reason was they were not misandric enough. Just four days ago feministe posts this rant disowning GMP.

        http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/12/12/inside-baseball-with-feministe-and-the-good-men-project/

        This is feminists going at feminists right out in the open. GMP posted just enough articles that are “fair” to men that it has caused a great deal of animosity from the bulk of feminists, who are still giving full blown misandry a chance.

        Before anyone freaks, I am not supporting GMP. They remain FUBAR. But their commercial interests compel them to do more than feministe or feministing ever will. They know that men being seen as human beings is starting to gain some faddish appeal. Not a lot, but enough to notice. When advertisers start recognizing it, change will escalate more rapidly.

        And when enough women shoppers make themselves feel warm and fuzzy by speaking out against misandry, feminists will have some real problems on their hands. It will be change or die.

        Very hard times ahead for feminists. But I am sure you can imagine my concern.

        • Roger O Thornhill

          I was just about to say those exact words Paul! LOL :-)
          Very glad to hear it said by you.

        • gwallan

          GMP was always a womens’ magazine. Men are the subject rather than real participants.

          • The Baron

            This is exactly the impression I always got.

            And when articles were directed at men, the focus seemed to be on how men ‘should’ behave. The clue’s in the name of the publication.

            AVfM, on the other hand, does not give me instructions on how I, as a man, must behave, so as not to displease women or anyone else.

            AVfM accepts men as men. This site, this community, accepts me and doesn’t try to change me.

            And that’s why I support AVfM whereas GMP is worth less than a bucket of piss as far as I’m concerned.

        • Stu

          I reckon feminism will shrink some because of the Elly Tams effect, and also because of all those self styled feminists out there that identify as feminists, but actually know nothing about what feminism is doing. As they learn, many will abandon. But these women were not true feminists anyway. They are useful idiots.

          Also, there will be many “real” feminists, who change their rhetoric, but not their attitudes. Radfems will still be radfems, and they will still be longing for genetic manipulation, castration, and gendercide, but they will be hiding in the closet a lot more, and pretending to be moderates. And by the way, I believe that if you scratch just about any politically active feminist, what you find underneath is a radfem, hiding in a moderate suit. What I mean by politically active is, as in pursuing further benefits for women and more marginalization of men. In other words, the feminists that are doing all the damage, the lobbying, pulling the strings of gov, or are actually the gov themselves, are radfems, and have similar views to those exposed by Agent Orange. Most of the radfems out there, are not calling themselves radfems. Radfems will not change, and there are enough of them in the corridors of power, in government, education, the judicial system, legal system etc, to continue to reak havoc on any efforts to get change for the better for men. I suspect that Mary Kellet would not, has not, ever openly called herself a radfem, but that’s what she is.

          I’m optimistic about getting feminism on it’s back foot, but I don’t think it’s going to happen via a smooth transition or a political effort alone, there is going to be pain…..and not just for feminists, for us to. Things will get worse, legally, financially, and socially for men. This is what will fuel our growth the most. As men withdraw their involvment and support of women out of necessity, and also lose respect for the legal system, things will get bad. I believe we are going to have to go through a period of great upheaval and pain. Something looking like the great depression, which will not end, until the efforts to prop up feminism end. And I would advice every MRA, MGTOW to keep that in mind and try to become as prepared as possible for it.

        • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

          It’s almost entertaining to watch these unstable gender ideologues gaslight themselves.

          “Uh yeah, we opposed men’s rights in order to help men fight for their rights. That was our plan all along. You should actually thank us. You didn’t know the behind the scenes strateegery.”

          • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

            lol, strateegery. Come to think of it, that is the perfect word. Watching feminists tackle men’s issues is like watching GWB tackle English.

        • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

          This is feminists going at feminists right out in the open.

          This really needs to be done in a ring filled with mud on Pay-Per-View.

          • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

            I’ve seen pics of both Kate Harding and Lisa Hickey. Lisa is fucked in the mud wrestling arena.

            She could drown in the splash alone, and it would require a crew to “unbeach” Harding when it was over.

            Yep, I’d pay to see it.

          • Roger O Thornhill

            Hi Dr T,

            Would that would be in VistaVision or Cinemascope or both?

        • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

          Having been advocating on these issues for more than a decade now while being polite and facing uncomfortable stares, stony silence, sniffing, dismissal, outright contempt, or simply being ignored, I came to the reluctant conclusion that while I find being rude to people unpleasant most of the time, it is the only thing that works. The issues have not changed in almost 40 years except to (mostly) get worse; now what I’m seeing from refusing to apologize for being blunt, and getting in people’s faces, may turn some people off but it at least fucking gets attention.

          If ten years from now people are looking back and saying “well those early MRAs were pretty obnoxious but things are much better now” and we’re consigned the dustbin of irrelevant activists because we were part of fixing most of what was broken and get little credit for it–OK by me.

          My own goal is to make the Men’s Rights Movement completely redundant and pointless within my lifetime, to make us no longer necessary at all. Then I can get back to playing video games and writing novels. ;-)

          By the way, in support of your point: I’m noticing an increasing number of people showing up on blogs and on YouTube saying things like “I’m not a Men’s Rights Activist, BUT….” and making 90% of the same arguments we do. Rut-roh. Looks like we may be making an impression. If we have to be the Malcolm X to Warren Farrell’s Martin Luther King, well… OK then. ;-)

          • http://imnotamensrightsactivistbut.wordpress.com ImNotMraBut…

            I’ve noticed that too.

    • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

      LOL, Exactly; usually they try and succeed very easily to co-opt a movement. Occupy Wall street, Civil Rights, sex trade; numerous others.

      Our movement though; don’t think it is going to happen. They must know that the douches at the dumg men project have failed miserably with their message. I seriously doubt that more shaming language; and of this low intellectual caliber is going to scare anyone into the fold.

      Like an obese women with no bearing, introspection, good taste, charm; and a hint of morning after breath from the cock carousel Hardin isn’t getting any points.

      Honestly, from the looks of her I don’t see her having much outside of feminism. So the men she could intimidate but not date; now have information to throw her to the curb where she belongs; and she thought this article was a good idea.

      Keep going with that wild hairy buffalo harpy beast; we have no desire to stop you from defacing your own movement.

      I call it free advertisement! Cha ching for once won’t be the sound of you shopping with your numerous exes stolen money at Lane Bryant cup cake. Not that I am not saying you aren’t “empowered” or anything, so hold your chins up! Hahahahahaha

    • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

      We saw this at the Toronto protest: a guy said he was there to find out about the suicide rate for men (which is massively higher than for women, as few people are aware of it outside of the MRM) and was asked why he didn’t go to feminists about it. Huh? Men aren’t allowed their own space? Feminists have been working on the male suicide problem? When and where?

      I reiterate the invitation to Kate to write for AVfM and welcome her to the Men’s movement. I just hope she sheds the delusion that she and her sisters have been helping men’s issues all along. No, you guys really haven’t, I’ve been watching for 20 years and waiting for it to happen and you guys haven’t. I used to be the one who defended feminists, and I still do for a few of them (the ignorant ones, the ones who are ill-informed but willing to get past their prejudices, learn, and listen) but really Kate, you can’t get away with claiming your fellow travellers have been doing things about these problems all along. No, you haven’t. I’ve been watching and waiting and hoping. I started writing for A Voice for Men when I gave up (most of) that hope, which I’d clung to for 20 years or more. There’s still a tiny, tiny, tiny little spark of hope that Feminists of the Kate Harding variety will, when they get over their emotional outburst, have a moment of clarity when their conscience speaks to them, and they start to work with men on men’s terms not on women’s terms and allow men their own space and their own voice free from the ideological narrative of feminism. Then perhaps, PERHAPS, MRAs and feminists could actually be friends. Because IN THEORY there should be no major conflicts, just debates and the occasional disagreement differing perspectives will normally arise. But IN PRACTICE, for decades, we’ve found the opposite: marginalizing, demeaning, stereotyping, demonizing. This screed read a lot like “fuck you Mexicans, for stealing cars and listening to loud salsa music and running street gangs and dancing like idiots when I was trying to work for your civil rights all along.” Uhm, close but no cigar Kate. But points for trying. Maybe you’ll continue to evolve in an actual egalitarian direction. That would be nice to think.

      But a lot of my fellow MRAs will think me a fool to even think there’s a remote possibility of it. I can’t say I blame them. Decades of watching this make me think my own willingness to at least try to engage the Kate Hardings of the world may just be entirely quixotic, that they’re too narrow-minded and blinded by ideology to talk. I just really, really want to be wrong about that.

      • MWMRA

        I noticed that exact same thing, in regards the protester speaking with the young man looking for information on suicide. I believe her words were “Why come to this event?’ “You can learn about suicide from other sources, like feminism, for instance.”

        It seems to me like no more than Brand naming in the sociology/psychology industry. I have seen this trend of advertising the Feminist Brand in the face of opposing voices growing in equal measure to the volume of those opposing voices. As MRA and other egalitarian movements gain traction I expect to see more and more of this behavior. A behavior which acts as little more than the preservation of cushy publicly funded feminist occupations.

    • keyster

      …feminists will react to the growth of the MRM by claiming ownership of issues they have been actively trying to silence for two generations.

      Kinda like The Good Men Project without the vitriolic condescending attacks.

  • Skeptic

    Well, well, well.
    This is interesting.
    This feminist is apparently so envious of MRM successes she wants to usurp them as a win for the Sisters of Misandry.
    Talk about a chip on both shoulders and an ego the size of Manhattan.

    • RudeAwakening

      Feminists remind me of those circus acts where the clown has dozens of plates spinning on sticks and runs from plate to plate trying to keep them from falling and smashing into pieces. Each lie is another plate on another stick. Unfortunately for them, the MRA’s wind has picked up and there are far too many plates spinning…

    • scatmaster

      the size of Manhattan

      http://i.imgur.com/a2Vmi.jpg

      Yup

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

        Omg Scatters mate. You are as icon cricketer Bradman.

        You walk onto the ground and hit a six on first bowl and take bloody bow.

        Awesome.

        • scatmaster

          Yourself, Skeptic, and Kimski set them up and I hit them out of the pitch.

      • Kimski

        You’d have to sit on your ass doing nothing for a really really long time, before you get to look like that.

        It takes hours of practice, but(t) not that much talent.

      • Roger O Thornhill

        She ate it!

        • Roger O Thornhill

          Goddesszilla!

  • AjaxMurgatroyd

    “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”

    • Steve_85

      There are no ladies anymore. Just wimminz.

      (This is my default position, I’d love to be proven wrong, but so far, no luck)

  • Dusty

    Great article. I thought Harding’s piece was unintentionally funny.

  • Zerbu

    Feminism is one big exercise in psychological projection. They often claim that MRAs are just trying to hold onto their male privilege, and what they claim men did, and often claim they still do, to women is nothing more than a projection of what feminists would do to men if they ruled the world.

  • Augen

    JtO,
    re: “Kate harding is invited to contribute as an author at AVfM”, … the word is applied too liberally so I’m loath to use it, but sometimes you dish out bites of genius. Love it.
    Otherwise … “winning”? I’m not sure. Maybe – almost in spite of ourselves, there’s been an ideological Normany landing and so what you are seeing are the outward manifestations of paroxysmal spasms within the ranks of the adversary’s divisions, representing genuine fear among the officers, rank and file, but I wouldn’t go so far as to claim “winning” yet.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

      Winning as in “part of the process”.

      Anything else is minutia, and it’s dissection will yield naught.

      P.S. The down vote was not from me.

  • James C

    The response to the kitchen remarks were golden!
    I hadn’t actually thought about it in those terms.
    I don’t see how a bunch of men who have no relationship to this woman would give a damn about “putting her in a kitchen”. If she does ever date a man who wishes to keep her in a kitchen for some strange reason, I would suggest that she either confront him on the matter or simply part ways with him and empower herself.

    I should add that it is actually a very important part of a healthy lifestyle to enter a kitchen from time to time, home cooked meals are a great way to save money and eat well. I would recommend she enter a kitchen at least once, if only to dispel some of the myths about them (notably that they are dungeons deprived of sunlight or filled with shackles preventing any escape).
    I myself use a kitchen daily, as does my girlfriend, and we seem to get along fine in there.

    • Bombay

      I like kitchens too. Me and my children cook/party there all the time. If you are going to put me anywhere – a well stocked kitchen would be the place….. LOL.

      • http://www.genderratic.com typhonblue

        Feminists: “MRAs want to put women back in the kitchen!!11!!!”
        Typhon: “So my life will henceforth consist of turning on the washing machine once a week, cooking, writing and going on the internet all day. Terrifying.”

        • James C

          You have a washing machine in your kitchen?
          Well, some MRAs are craftier than others in their ultimate quest to keep all women confined to a single room.
          I should probably get rid of my laundry room and consolidate the two. The shackles barely reach and she is often dwelling in the in-between space separating the two, a troubling occurrence for any committed MRA.

          • Aimee McGee

            I hope you are considering an extension to her shackles, I’m so much more useful now mine let me go into the back yard to dig in the garden and hang out washing….

            Seriously Kate Harding, I’ve not yet been oppressed by an MRA…but many so called feminists have tried to stick me in some kind of box labelled ‘other’

        • Stu

          You forgot sammichs.

          • http://www.genderratic.com typhonblue

            Sammichs.

          • TheBiboSez

            mmmmmmm. Sammichs.

          • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

            Oh for fucks sake. Sammiches. MRAs are always forgetting the e in sammiches.

            Goddam my life is hard.

          • Stu

            You US MRA’s can spell colour without the U, I can spell sammichs without the E :)

        • Astrokid

          I ran into Traditionalist Women’s Rights Activists (TWRA) today via this post “Nazbol” Misandry.
          It contains a link to Women are NEVER justified in working…Under these conditions. These are truly women who want to get back to a totally cozy lifestyle.. #5 is really amazing
          5.) (Dont work) To ease the load for the Man
          “Rather then share his burdens, strengthen him for them. Give him appreciation.”
          Note men do not share with us the childbearing responsibility they do not carry children inside of them for the half of the nine month’s. Therefore, there is no need for us to share the man’s breadwinning responsibility.

          • Roger O Thornhill

            Hi Astrokid,

            Good comment!
            “Note men do not share with us the childbearing responsibility they do not carry children inside of them for the half of the nine month’s. Therefore, there is no need for us to share the man’s breadwinning responsibility.”

            As I see it, in their minds nine months for a woman equals 18-21 years for a man.

          • tallwheel

            This is what a lot of women in more traditional countries (like Korea) are doing now. The ideas that women don’t have to have children, and should be able to get divorced when they want to have permeated the culture, yet somehow the idea that women (especially married women) ought not to work, and that men ought to provide whatever they can for them, still remains. These women realize the sweet deal they have as long as they uphold women’s traditional role, and thus do everything they can to keep it and maintain an image of femininity and helplessness. I don’t approve of their lifestyle at all, but they are the smartest women on earth as far as I’m concerned – if their primary goal is to have an easy life.

          • http://www.genderratic.com typhonblue

            “Rather then share his burdens, strengthen him for them. Give him appreciation.”

            Ugh…

            “You take on the lion’s share of the burden in the relationship, but I appreciate you for it! What? The appreciation of someone who doesn’t give two shits about you isn’t enough? Well I NEVER! WHAT ARE YOU SOME KIND OF FAGGOT!?”

          • http://www.genderratic.com typhonblue

            What really strikes me is there is absolutely no sense that a woman needs to earn the right to have a man care about her appreciation via demonstrations of friendship and mutual support.

            Does this work in any other relationship dynamic?

            “Yeah, Fred, I could get off my lazy ass and help you move my furniture, but I’m just going to sit here and appreciate you, bud!”

            “I’d pay for my meal, Sally, but you know, my appreciation should be enough for you!”

            What an entitled fucking attitude.

        • The Baron

          MRAs want to put women in the kitchen … so they can use those labor-saving devices men invented, which made women’s liberation possible in the first place.

          My mind is blown.

      • Turbo

        “..Putting feminists in their place. Which is in the kitchen at best..”

        WTF ???

        I too spend a lot of time in my kitchen. I find the prospect of a feminist in my kitchen to be, well

        …. repulsive, and kinda creepy, at best

        and

        ….. downright dangerous, at worst

        • Aimee McGee

          Yeah, there are things like knives in the kitchen!

          • The Baron

            I wouldn’t even let a feminist near a spoon.

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

      The kitchen????
      But…but…but…SAMMICHES!

    • http://www.judgybitch.com JudgyBitch

      Hey, Kate? Some of us have never left the kitchen. The correct adjective to describe us is “oppressed”, if by “oppressed” you mean “happy”.

      Hell, you never know with ideologues. Words mean funny things sometimes.

  • TigerMan

    Thank you Kate Harding for finally admitting that the problems we have been highlighting are legitimate. As for your name calling so what, if you pick up the slack that is and in which case I will gladly fill my time with things of a more pleasing nature.
    If you fail to pick up the slack as I strongly suspect then we continue and use your shrieks and howls as encouraging indicators that we are on the right track :)

  • Merlin

    When you shine a light on the roaches they ‘all of a sudden’ decide to change tact.

    I’ve exchanged dialogue with feminists on YouTube, and this tends to be the way they are creeping. Trying to maintain that all along they have been working in the background to help males?

    Please pass the bucket, someone.

  • http://www.genderratic.com typhonblue

    “It is her right to broadcast her opinion to the world, and we may criticize her, we would never consider silencing her – or denying any human right to anyone.”

    It’s her right to broadcast her opinion. It’s not her right to do what she did, stalking, obstructing and verbally harassing a man just because he wanted to listen to a lecture she didn’t approve of.

    What she did constituted assault in Canada. That she wasn’t arrested, as a man would have been, is testament to the real double standard that feminists should be decrying.

    • gwallan

      Her opinion should be broadcast for everybody to see in all its foaming glory.

  • Roger O Thornhill

    Great article JTO, As I’ve said before I’m in constant awe of those who write for AVFM. That’s why I tend to stick to creating images as often as I can and the odd (supposedly) witty observation. :-)

    This seems to be a case of the rats leaving a sinking ship.
    I think that Feminism would have to be the most toxic product of our times, deadlier than anything you can mention.

    A re-branding of it will fail because people are beginning to see the truth. Everyone either directly or indirectly has been touched by its poison. If it hasn’t affected you I bet you know someone who has!

    So if Feminists really do care about the plight of men and boys, lets fix all of those laws that harm men and boys right now! (The sound of Crickets chirping!)

    So what’s next? Oh I know, the Futile Blob with boobs is really an MRA too! You read it here first folks! LOL

    Finally my heart and mind goes out to all of you who share your stories bravely here at AVFM! You really are inspirational!

  • RM1970

    I think the feminism (Costa Concordia) got its Captain Schettino (Kate Harding). It’s well deserved

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

    When a ship sinks the seas become filled with people on life rafts and big rubber doughnuts and whatever they can grab.

    So, the ship of fools taking in water and this Katie whatsit is standing on the deck of another. She’s “tsk tsking” the hapless ding-bats overboard and saying, “Thank god I wasn’t on that boat, phew.” All this while she’s towel drying her hair.

    The Nuremberg trials had many Nazis telling their woeful tales of how they too were not on that ship either.

  • faroefaxi

    a part of me wants to say, go fuck yourself you hateful man hating bigot feminazi. you have made your bed and made it well know. that you mean that are nothing more than bests. no you can’t switch teams go lie in the bed that you and the feminazis have made. FUCK OFF tú helvids hora vit vilja ikki hava teg her. the other part of me is just laugh my head off muhahahahahaha. your time is over men are feed up with your lies

  • faroefaxi

    well know. that you mean that men are nothing more than bests. a word just disappears strange

  • http://whoism3.wordpress.com M3

    I wonder how long it will take before the other feminist realize she actually agreed that MRM positions are indeed legitimate and proceed devour one of their own for straying too far off the beaten path.

    Feminists will eat their own if they deviate even 1 degree off the bullet points.

  • Astrokid

    or that we get into perfectly even fights with our hardworking, loving husbands, then call the cops and have them arrested because we’re spiteful bitches

    Fuck You Right Back Kate Harding.. thats exactly what happened in this case, and we have audio recording to prove it.
    Assault case against Conboy dismissed
    William Conboy, 35, a former assistant district attorney most recently under District Attorney David Soares, was charged with attacking his wife at 1:30 a.m. on Jan. 30, 2011, inside the couple’s home on Meadow Lane. Kelly Conboy alleged her husband kicked and choked her and pushed her to the ground, kicking her in the throat with a rubber-soled boot and dragging the boot from her throat to her chest, according to court papers filed in City Court.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      “or that we get into perfectly even fights with our hardworking, loving husbands, then call the cops and have them arrested because we’re spiteful bitches”

      No, no, no, Kate. You are ALL honorable, oppressed but loving sweethearts who would NEVAH EVAH be spiteful bitches under ANY circumstance…..

      ….BUT…the way the laws are written and carried out, you legally CAN do exactly that…

      *not that you would* of course, of course…but the fact remains that WOMEN can and MEN can’t.

      And THAT my dear Feminist, is NOT “equality”…and we just KNOW you are allllll about equality!

      • Kimski

        “or that we get into perfectly even fights..”

        ROFL.
        This may very well be the most amazing distortion of reality I’ve ever read, on so many different levels, that I’m having a hard time finding out where to start.

        Mind blowing.

  • IAmA_WhiteMale_AMA

    I tried thinking of retorts to her article, but with the amount of projecting she was doing, it was difficult. It was like someone asking you, “So when did you stop beating your wife?”, and you don’t even have a wife. It’s easier to attack us, which was the point of this article, if she builds up a negative strawman for us and a positive one for feminism. If feminism did half the things she claims, we wouldn’t need an MRM.

  • bowspearer

    Yeesh, where the heck do I start here. Tbh, since everyone has already blitzed the concrete level, I thought I’d play to my strengths and examine the abstract level.

    Ok let’s deal with the fundamental issue first. Was feminism crucial in the genesis of the Men’s Rights Movement?

    Sure, the answer is a conditional yes, but those conditions sure are telling.

    What happened of course was that where once men were trapped in, figuratively speaking, a “gingerbread prison” (ala hansel and gretel) of epic and mythological proportions, feminists essentially turned all the sugar in it to vinegar and in doing so, became proxy jailers.

    So yes, in much the same way that someone who is “abuse prone” (and I say that having been so in the past) enters a relationship far more violent than the others and eventually something is done to them that makes them not only leave but reevaluate themselves, feminism has been an adversarial driving force for the Men’s Rights Movement. I’ll give Ms Harding that much.

    However as for the rest of the article, there isn’t a single thing that is accurate in it besides the fact that she points out that the Men’s Rights Movement is non-violent and has legitimate issues.

    She fails in this regard on several accounts.

    First off the whole of feminism is driven by the mythical concept of Patriarchy, which has since been debunked in favour of Hegemonic [and subordinate] Masculinities. Rather than breaking free of CONSERVATIVE (watch out Conservatives – once we’re done with the global oligarchy’s feminist puppets, YOU’RE next!)) gender stereotypes, it reenforces them by perpetuating and compounding a gender paradigm which epitomises male disposability and female infantalisation. This isn’t helping men at all, but merely playing on female stereotypes advantageously and playing on male stereotypes in a demonising manner, for personal gain.

    This is further compounded when she demonises male anger by equating all anger- even the anger of male victims – no matter how righteous and justified it might be, with the misdirected anger which comes with the lashing out of an abuser. You cannot claim to be sympathetic to men’s issues whilst demonising the completely natural, human and justifiable emotions they cause.

    Further still and even more telling is the hysterical ramblings about relegating women to the kitchens – which plays on female infantalisation and is blatant propaganda. Those of us [men] who are MRAs and aren’t part of the MGTOW movement are mostly married to, living with or dating highly intelligent and capable women [my fiance is a brilliant software engineer for example]. As for female MRAs, many are on the front lines and even breaking down the infantalisation of women so that women are treated like adults [which can only lead to the agency which feminists CLAIM to seek].

    However I’ll be kind to Ms Harding. Perhaps she’s started to wake up to male issues and believes that they deserve a hearing. However it’s clear that she’s taking a pill that is so blue that it is neon blue right now.

    For her to truly be a force for human rights and human dignity, she needs to take the red pill. I truly wish her luck in that as I suspect it will be an incredibly bitter pill for her to swallow.

  • Raven01

    Great article, John.
    This little nugget almost had me fall off my chair laughing:
    “…or that we get into perfectly even fights with our hardworking, loving husbands, then call the cops and have them arrested because we’re spiteful bitches.”
    Trying to slip in the “because women are usually weaker they have every right to start a fight they can’t finish and aren’t bitches for being corrected by a shot to the chops from some man that has had enough of being hit (often with weapons). That the initiator is still the victim if the initiator is a woman. That we would not be better served by programs teaching non-violent conflict resolution to everyone, men and women alike.
    Too much.
    This leopard is not being very successful at changing her spots.

  • AntZ

    Here is how Jezebel reacted to demands that Obamacare treat men and women equally:

    http://jezebel.com/5922194/mens-rights-activists-upset-the-word-men-isnt-used-more-in-affordable-care-act

    Oh yeah, they are all about equality over there.

    • napocapo69

      Obama,
      a “non white male”,
      nice smile and good fit,
      happily married,
      2 daughters and no sons,
      mother and no father,
      licking at every moment women’s intimate parts with the white knighting rethoric.
      Isn’t him a perfect President for the Feminist States of America?.

      It’s all for a greater good, or should we say “for a greater God”?

  • Lordmep

    Well if they can’t stop us, they might as well co-opt us like they’ve done so many movements in the past. I wonder if the fact that the Mens Rights Movement being largely built around anti-feminist ideas will hamper their intentions.

    In any case, I take this as a positive sign. They’ve acknowledged their inability to simply stop us.

    • Roger O Thornhill

      Hi Lordmep,

      Great comment. But the word I see missing is ATTEMPT from your first sentence. They will fail at this miserably!

  • mongo

    I find it hard to get offended at Kate Harding. If a parrot flew by my house and squawked ‘fuck you, fuck you, fuck you’, I’d probably laugh.

    The more I listen to feminists, the more I marvel at the younger me that once took any notice of them.

  • oldfart

    When I was very young my mother would wash out my mouth with with liquid detergent for swearing (or if she ‘thought’ I might be swearing)
    After a few years of that I had gastrointestinal problems and would get sick just at the smell of a hint of soap residue in a glass, I still have that reaction.

    If Kate-dahling had a mother like that perhaps she would not swear so easily,nor think all women were such angels.

    Have a tablespoon on me Kate,it’s free and I don’t even want your cookie in return.
    (Then repeat daily until swearing stops)

  • TheUnknown

    “…it’s become difficult for any rational, compassionate person to trust a man who claims he’s been screwed over in family court or abused by a female partner, even if he has.”

    Likewise, Ms. Harding, it’s sad that feminism-founded deceptive statistics, anti-masculine and arguably misogynistic dogmas and subversions of civil liberties with respect to crimes against women have made it more difficult for compassionate, rational people to trust a woman when she discusses her experiences of rape, domestic violence, or other such terrible things, not knowing if she’s embellishing for a political agenda or abusing new systems for personal gain.

    Can’t wait to find this quote taken out of context by David Futrelle.

    “By and large, American feminists are really into equality, involved fathers, justice for all, dismantling bullshit gender roles…”

    I’d love this to be true, I honestly would. I’m gay and mostly liberal; feminism has its feet planted firmly in my favorite movements, and I would surely not be reading this or commenting here if feminism fought for men and boys. But they don’t, and when they claim they do I ask, “where are you fighting for men right now?” and all they give are shallow excuses and apologetics.

  • TheBiboSez

    My Dearest Kate Harding –

    It is well known among men that, sometimes, women can become quite, um, brazen, in soliciting men for sex.

    Although the feminist stereotype is that men are always the sexual aggressors, you did quite the job of smashing this misapprehension to bits with your repeated demands that we “fuck you”.

    Now, while some feminists like Rebecca Watson object to being politely asked for “coffee” (which she took to mean “sex”, using a women’s intuition that she is on record as believing doesn’t exist) even once, we MRM’s are much more tolerant than feminists, and we know how to refuse, politely, a polite request. So, no, thank you. Perhaps some other time.

    However, when you, Katie, repeat this “fuck you” DEMAND for sex over and over (15 times by my count), it doesn’t make you seem more attractive to us. To be honest, it makes you seem sort of creepy. And I’m not even counting your passive-aggressive offer of your “cookie”.

    So, to Katie and feminists, don’t do that.

    I know that may sound harsh of me. It wasn’t meant to be. I value you as a friend, and I’m just trying to help you as a friend, but without the benefits, if you take my meaning.

    One of the many things you need to learn about MRAs (and especially MGTOWs like me) is that we reject the idea that men must be sexually available to a woman whenever that woman demands servicing. We know that rejecting your sexual advances can be dangerous – at best, you will shrug it off, but more commonly, you will accuse us of rape, or homosexuality, or whatever, in order to exact the proverbial revenge of the woman scourned.

    Penis chopping, too – feminists giggle with glee over that.

    You see, we are no longer your slaves, Katie. We know that this is a troubling message for you to hear, but nevertheless we have freed ourselves from your purview. Rarely since the days of Sparticus has a slave-class overthrown their oppressors, and we are proud to be counted in that number.

    All your attempts to control us will fail: Your shaming tactics. Your anger. Your boobs. Your wet vagina. Your simpering white knights. All your tools of slavemastery over us have been destroyed. Utterly.

    It is no wonder to us that after this carnage you would want to coopt the messages and continuing successes of the MRM. Good luck with that, but beware – your feminist comrades are quite keen on rooting out traitors in their ranks, and unlike the MRM, they actively embrace violence as an acceptable tactic against their perceived enemies. We’ve got video proof of this, if you are interested.

    Don’t despair – I’m sure somewhere there is the right man for you – Utah, maybe. For example, you might have better luck with that pussybegger Manboobz. We know you detest sycophants like him, but I understand that there are a wide variety of commercially available sexual lubricants that you can use to help you overcome your body’s visceral rejection of him as a suitor and baby-daddy.

    I could warn you, though, that when the feminist hordes come after you, Manboobz will NOT have your back.

    We could whine that you are sexually objectifying us, or trying to oppress us, or whatever, but we in the MRM don’t think claiming victimhood is a good thing. Victimhood, ideally, is temporary condition to be overcome with all due speed and agency, NOT a valid perpetual identity to be exploited for status or gain.

    Someday, Katie, when you grow up and become a woman of strength, wisdom, and personal responsibility; when you reject your faux victimhood and begin to campaign for the full rights of both men and women alike, only then will you become worthy of us.

    Until then, enjoy your fine whines. Just don’t get too drunk on them.

    And that is what the Bibo Sez.

    Bless you!

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

      That was simply beautiful!

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      “Victimhood, ideally, is temporary condition to be overcome with all due speed and agency, NOT a valid perpetual identity to be exploited for status or gain.”

      Sticker, Bumper Sticker, T-Shirt!

      • TheBiboSez

        I’ve to give a tip ‘o the hat to JtO for that one – I think I got that line (or the idea for it) from one of his videos.

  • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

    Perhaps she was drunk when she wrote it. I’ll bet the next morning she tried to file rape charges against her keyboard, because she. is. so. fucked.

    Pardon my French.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/TruthAndOblivion Woolybumblebee

    Thank you Kate, for a wonderful (early) X-mas present! You are doing great work for the MRM, and I for one am glad to welcome you to the fold. But please, keep the cookies… I much prefer the beer.

  • dhanu

    Now that the MRM has made it impossible to ignore the plight of male victims of DV, rape, false rape accusations, misandric laws and healthcare policies, wars, sexist feminist policies like affirmative action, Title IX, etc, the femmies have no choice to agree that these issues do exist. (Initially they could simply say that no male can be a victim and other bullshit, and people who knew nothing better would agree.) This femmo is not acknowledging the issues faced by the men out of her own spite; but she’s been forced to. If she does not (and says, “Men are having no issues”), she know nobody is gonna take her seriously, but she’d be laughed at. Therefore, this acceptance of hers is not her taking a partially red pill or something; it’s just that she has no other option.

    Next, after having been forced to accept the men’s issues, she has the thinking of at least keeping it up to this level; that is, okay, just accept the male issues now that they’ve been highlighted so much (merely accepting doesn’t cure them anyway), so no harm. At least now stop this MRM thing before it proceeds further and tries to solve the problems faced by the men. She is afraid that just like the men’s issues have come to recognition, next the MRM is soon going to gain momentum and may become impossible to ignore anymore. So she is trying to kill the movement as much as possible; her thinking being, “If I call the men’s issues legitimate, and the MRM radical and unnecessary, men would cheer for feminism and denounce the MRM”. This is her stupid little plot. A child could have thunk better. Idiot.

  • tallwheel

    This was my initial reaction to the article as well.

    Welcome to the MRM, Kate. Glad to know we now have someone covertly writing satirical articles behind enemy lines. Can’t wait to read the next one.

  • http://danipettas.com Dani Pettas

    Awesome piece.

    One thing about Harding’s writing: it’s a series of assertions. No data or statistics are given, not even a misogynistic quote.

    There’s something bullying about completely tearing down a group of people, but without even a “because…”

    The one “because” is the all caps phrase, “BECAUSE I’M A FEMINIST.”

    That sounds a little like, because I’m bigger, better or holier-than-thou.

  • James

    I can’t help but draw parallels between ‘Fuck You Week‘ and the classic Two Minutes’ Hate of 1984. Surely I’m not the only one who sees it.

    • gwallan

      The “Fuck You’s” are a regular Jezebel feature where they demonstrate their true being.

      They are the only group I’ve ever seen whose hatreds approach those of the inner Melbourne radical lesbian seperatists of the seventies.

  • ZenCo.

    I fantasize about Ms. Harding having the brass to actually submit an article. I’m sure she would be given a fair shake too. One can only dream…
    How’s about it Kate? You could change history by having the actual temerity to find out for YOURSELF what the MRM and this site are all about. It would take ‘true grit'; the kind that would be respected and appreciated around here – despite any disagreements with the actual piece. You might even find it liberating.

  • Kimski

    Am I the only one who thinks Kate Harding sounds exactly like Vanja Krajina??

    What is it with these grrlz and their inability to reach out in a positive and unbiased way?

    Is it an inhereted mental deficiency, or the results of years of entitlement, pampering and brainwashing from equally disturbed minds, that has done little more than make them the most unhappy women, that has ever walked the face of the earth?

    Well, we already know the answer to that last question..

    “•Jezebel contributor Kate Harding has admitted the major issues addressed by the men’s rights movement are legitimate and correct;”

    Can’t help noticing that the ever present follow up: ‘-BUT..’ is becoming less and less frequent these days.

    Btw. Fuck you too, Kate Harding.
    You aint seen nothing yet.

    • Poester99

      JtO and the rest of the AVFM crew are definitely Takin care of Business..

  • http://menzmagazine.blogspot.com/ Factory

    I prefer this response myself…

  • andybob

    Within the past year, two events occurred which have shaken feminists to the core.

    First, was the release of the Agent Orange Files (now freely available in an autographed boxed set – the perfect stocking stuffer) which was a milestone in the MRM. Try as they might, feminists could no longer hide behind the pretense that theirs was a humanist ideology concerned about equality for all. Radical feminists, the victors for supremacy within the sistahood, were revealed in all their man-hating malevolence.

    The AO Files also gave lie to the frequently-stated feminist myth that their radical element only hovered on their fringes of the movement, toothless and irrelevant – an embarrassment to the noble equalists working tirelessly to free men from the yoke of the evil patriarchy.

    We now had indelible proof that the radicals came in from the fringe long ago, and took up influential positions in politics, the media, education and the law. Some were even putting finishing touches on “The Plan”, one of the most willfully egregious examples of gender-based cruelty ever devised.

    The second event was the outing of radical feminists whose violent protest on November 16th at the University of Toronto revealed their callous disregard for the fundamental civil liberties of men and boys. Both of these events were driven by the tireless work of outstanding activists here at AVfM. They have revealed just how ill-prepared feminists really are to deal with the one recent development they, like many others, did not factor into their game plan at all.

    The Internet.

    By controlling those who control the MSM, feminists have managed to shape perceptions and direct the discourse about gender-related issues. They have not managed to control the MRM because we are essentially an Internet movement that has built its base on-line. That is why feminists have felt so comfortable dismissing us as a band of basement dwellers with no power base. They are just beginning to wake up to the fact that they have severely underestimated sites like AVfM.

    Kate Harding’s Jezebel offering was made in the wake of the U of T outings in which feminists demonstrated their real attitude towards men. It has now been seen by hundreds of thousands of people. Even more disturbing, was the revelation by Dr Elam that he has been interviewed by Sarah Del Giallo for ‘The National Post’ about this event. This is a very big deal and feminists know it. Men’s issues have made it into the MSM with one of those ‘basement dwellers’ discussing an event in which feminists look very, very bad indeed.

    Feminists have no choice but to make some kind of attempt to pretend that they care about men’s issues. I know it is hard to believe, but Kate Harding’s venomous rant is actually a feminist’s idea of being sympathetic towards men.

    It reminds me of a rabid dog I once saw on a family holiday in Mudgee. Cornered, and with no clue how to respond to its predicament, it began eating its own tail. Fortunately, Grandpa shot it before the hapless mutt reached its arsehole. Ms Harding has not been so lucky. She publicly devoured her own sphincter in a spectacle that will be witnessed for all eternity by generations of people curious about what feminists really thought about men.

    There will be no co-opting of men’s issues by feminists. It simply isn’t possible for feminists to disguise their hatred of men long enough to convince anyone that they actually care about the rights and welfare of men and boys. If any of them does manage to pull it off, we need only point to the Internet, where Ms Harding’s letter will be but a drop in the ocean of man-hating bile that feminists have been spewing for decades.

    Feminists will be key players in their own undoing. Our biggest weapons will be technology – and the truth.

    • Roger O Thornhill

      andybob,

      Do you know how to get coffee out of carpet? I just laughed and sprayed my coffee all over the place reading your comment! The part about Ms Harding devouring her own sphincter cracked me up!

      Bravo Sir!

      • andybob

        Thank you, Mr Thornhill – and sorry about the carpet.

        That distempered mongrel bitch was the first image that came into my head when I read Ms Harding’s screed. Don’t you just love how Jezebel has declared this as a special week of “desperate emotional cleansing and unhinged psychic purging” as though it were different from any other week at Jezebel?

        Feminists cannot feign concern for the welfare of men and boys. They just can’t do it. Feminism is a teetering edifice supported by the triple phantoms of male priviledge, patriarchy and rape culture. This shambling structure depends on their hatred of men. Recognizing our essential humanity completely undermines feminism because it is akin to its adherents calling themselves on their own bullshit.

        David Futrelle’s response to Ms Harding’s pooh-flinging was the squeeling of an excited schoolgirl. I was embarrassed for him. He was excited because he actually believed she scored some points for feminism. What she really did, was demonstrate that flinging pooh is feminism’s only possible response to our advance and, like Mr JTO, it warmed my heart.

        If they were clever, they would actually give us a respectful hearing, but they are not clever. They are potty-mouthed pooh flingers, with Manboobz cheering them on. Now, that’s a recipe for failure if ever I heard one.

        Love your graphics by the way, Mr Thornhill. The power of the image will be an increasingly vital part of our fight and we are lucky to have talented artists like you and Dr F, among others, on our side. Cheers.

        • Roger O Thornhill

          Thanks andybob :-)

        • TheBiboSez

          “…the triple phantoms of male priviledge, patriarchy and rape culture.”

          Much like the ghosts of Xmas past, present and future. You sir are the reincarnation of Charles Dickens.

          Cheers, mate!

      • Kimski

        “Do you know how to get coffee out of carpet?”

        Use a feminist.
        Any will do, as long as you remember to dispose of it immediately after use.

        • Roger O Thornhill

          That gets the coffee out, but what about the whine?

          • Kimski

            For that you might consider using an MRA.
            Rinse and dry after use, and they’re good to go for many years to come. A very sound investment in the future.

  • Booyah

    Dear Kate.

    I don’t want a feminist in my kitchen.
    I don’t want a feminist in my house.
    I don’t want a feminist corrupting my human rights movement dedicated to true equality.
    I don’t really want a feminist anywhere in my world, however.
    I don’t feel the need to threaten opposing viewpoints or advocate violence and eugenics like feminists do….

    Please just leave the MRM alone and get back to the hatred and bigotry that you folk do so so well. We have no desire to be co-opted and corrupted like every other movement in its path that feminism co-opted. You had 50 years of unopposed voice and power. You folks have had all the time and voice in the world to actually do the right thing and provide the true equality you PROMISED. Your complete and utter failure in that 50 years to promote anything but bigotry and hatred is evidence that drowns out your shrill and disparaging and inherently fraudulent words. We all know what you are all about. If your not in the MRM at this point in history you’re a very poorly disguised bigot and female chauvinist pig. You will be recognized as such and treated with the righteous disdain you deserve

    No sane man wants a feminist for anything….

  • OneHundredPercentCotton

    Think maybe women suing the government to be allowed in combat roles has anything to do with this sudden change of heart?

    For almost a hundred years now, since women got the vote without the requirement for combat duty, they’ve been paying lip service to “the boys won’t let us so we just don’t try”, but now it appears four of them have flown the Cuckoo’s nest and actually started a legal push for it.

    There are ALWAYS a few ham-handed idiots that don’t understand the finer points of the “rhetorical”.

    Trust me on this one – Feminists hate military women since military duty actually requires “walking the walk”, rather than prestigious or privileged Affirmative Action perk jobs like Doctor, Lawyer or CEOs.

    Feminists only welcomed military women into the fold lately because of the”rape culture” goldmine to be plumbed – which, unfortunately, has only paid off in glaring evidence of rampant false accusations and gross misconduct by the Saintly Sex.

    Let’s just see how much longer this “all the rights and special privileges without any of the risks or responsibilities” train keeps chugging down the tracks.

    Should the Women In Combat lawsuit gain any traction, you’re gonna see the rats jumping ship in full force.

    Suddenly The Kitchen and The Sammich Mines are going to be the symbol of Ideal Womanhood and what Feminists were struggling for all along: respect for things feminine.

    Remember you saw it here first.

  • http://dudequest.wordpress.com Brian Barnson

    @Booyah-

    dude, This is beautiful. The first and biggest mistake the feminists made was whining about the MRM and MRA’s.

    The moment you acknowledge something you make it real. Every single time some feminist spouts off about how evil we are, several readers decide to look at the ‘evil’ for themselves… and then, when they are greeted with reason, logic, and a belief in the inherent nobility of humanity, many of those doubters will contrast it with the angry, enraged vitriol and psychotic assumptions of feminist theory.

    They take the red pill.

    Once you have taken the red pill, it is impossible to ‘reinsert you into the computer’. They may simply quietly listen for a while, or even backslide into attempting to quote-mine before finally coming around, and they may never say a single word on a single site against feminism.

    But they will listen, and they will make choices, with their hands, with their voices, with their money and their hearts.
    They will refuse the marriage trap. They will ignore the white knight reflex of coming to the aid of an abusive woman when her partner finally defends himself. They will stop supporting the angry lesbian diatribe, and downvote celebrities preaching about women victims. They will refuse to help police jail innocent men for crimes ‘they could have committed’. They will look for the truth behind every feminist horror story, and may in fact find the truth behind other similar stories.

    They may come across Thomas Ball, or read about the quiet desperation of jobless men starving to death because they cannot pay ruinous child support and feed themselves at the same time. They may read about how feminist teachers are physically and psychologically ruining children.

    Every time some outspoken feminist rants about MRA’s, it is added to OUR score, not theirs. They are preaching to their own choir, and their hatred is turning members of their tribe away from their philosophy of bigotry and feminist supremacy.

    • Booyah

      Hi Brian. Don’t think I’ve had the pleasure of crossing paths with you yet. :) Thanks for your kind comment. I wholeheartedly agree. Fact is most men aren’t particularly verbose. Most men vote with their feet. Women vote with their mouth. We’ve already seen that is the case with the marriage strike and the defacto strike when the playing field changed there due to the marriage strike. Now were in the end game. Once again men are walking away quietly but this time they are walking off the field completely. This means that its going to be even harder to repair the damage and to defend feminism. Its the end game to some degree.

      Some of us like you and I delight in the chance to air our views without restraint given the chance here (within the pretty agreeable posting policy of course.) However we are very much in the minority. AVFM had 20 000 hits between days one day last week when I checked. Thats a lot of men doing the traditional male thing of voting with their feet.

      I think the more men speak up the better. I think its the fact that we have accepted everything quietly that has got us into so much trouble. (with exceptions for the handful of long standing MRA’s with respect of course), however I acknowledge we’re all different and there is no doubting the quiet masses voting with their feet have made a big impact silently before.

      Understanding and acting is a very close second to posting in real world effect and this website is getting a lot of silent readers.

      As to the co-opting that is a very real fear as many of are currently worrying that feminism may be co-opting both humanism and libertarian causes. Ironically destroying the very principles they represent. The MRM MUST be unco-optable for mens issues to have any certainty of a future. That’s a grim reality that must not be overlooked.

      Lastly the poor deary (Kate) seems to be under the illusion that some MRA might be out to get her when the fact is that most would do anything not to have to pay her a moments attention, let alone destroy our own future due to her. In fact we run a feminist community service that considerably cuts down on the amount of mansplaining these poor suffering dears have to put up with. We’re actually interested in the views of the men they don’t want to listen too. So it’s a win win situation and I didnt want poor little Kate and her cookie worrying.

      Looking forward to seeing you round and pleasure to meet you.

  • keyster

    For the first time in our history:

    More women are employed than men.

    More women have drivers licenses than men.

    More women (two-thirds) are graduating college than men.

    And so, I’m still trying to figure out why a Feminist Movement even exists.

    • Steve_85

      Because they’re being oppressed dammit! It’s the Patriarchy don’t’cha know!?

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Because it has absolutely nothing to do with the factors you just listed.

    • Stu

      Because the world population consists of more then 10% men.

      Because somewhere on the earth, there is at least one women who has a complaint about something.

  • napocapo69

    quote “We would be the natural allies of MRAs, if MRAs were sincerely committed to the causes with which they claim to be chiefly concerned”

    In other words we should pass feminist approval process…

  • Verdad

    Feminists these days…

    “shake my head”

  • Nostradormouse

    All organisations develop a pathology. The effective ones are self-aware of their strengths and weaknesses, creative and flexible enough to play to their strengths, and manage strategic blind-spots. The purpose of the organisation, and its operating environment generates its membership, culture, organisational behaviour, and the eccentricities which seem from outside like behavioural ticks.

    MHRM
    Take for example the MHRM. It is almost impossible to subvert because the members follow ideas rather than leaders. Historically, the operating environment has punished passion ideology and emotion in its activists, eroding all but the most persistent, pragmatic, principaled, and resilient. The Internet is an incredibly good organisational and cultural fit, and a force multiplier, given that the movement is geographically dispersed, committed, and against all the odds, currently ascendant. The movement’s weaknesses include financial, command and control, structural, resource, force concentration, organisational discipline, and formation of high level policy.

    When I speak of irrational ticks, I mean that the MHRM could, for example, spontaneously rout feminism in weeks, then inexplicably stop within sight of the finish line and descend into bickering, leadership-bids, and point-scoring. Its cohesion resourcefulnes and effective while out-numbered, embattled, and defensive may not fit the next phase of offensively chasing down its enemy quite as comfortably.

    We are aware of our weaknesses, and the changes in culture required in the next phase. We have an interesting blend of strategists, communicators, recruiters, policy wonks, and networkers. We have a good understanding of the environment we face (gotta love those little red pills). Our culture is resolute, civil, tolerates dissent, and is patient with newbies.

    RadFem
    Institutionally, feminism is also an interesting case study. Think “organisational psychosis” poster children.

    They are ideological incumbents facing change, their dogma is explicitly fanciful, and lacks mechanisms for correcting misconcetions. The meritocratic ones left the movement a couple of waves back drawn towards real jobs gained on merit. The pragmatists who could reason and observe what is actually happening in the environment saw how radfems attack Apostasy even more furiously than opposition. Self-preservation requires that anyone with a mind capable of framing thoughts differing from radfem orthodoxy will get increaingly twitchy as they veer further from reality, and will be formulating an exit strategy.

    All of this would be fine dandy and irrelevant. What I am leading up to is that there is just so MUCH money envolved, and that money has a strange consciousness distorting effect even on initially rational people.

    I am not studying the institutions framing radical feminist policy particularly closely, but I read their current phase as “internal discipline”. The cartel dictating gender discourse has been broken for the first time in a generation, and the status quo is in transition. Fine if you are the underdog, especially if you are tolerant of change. Whoever controls the purse-strings is highly motivated to keep the status quo. They will have started an “Inquisition” to enforce ideological discipline among those employed using all that nice federal money embezzled by the DV industry. Given the nature of the organisation in question, the use of the word “Witch-hunt” in this context is so exquisitely ironic and has such a rich layer of comic subtext that I’m going to leave that particular loaded weapon alone. Let the punch lines write themselves.

    The Meat
    They will be irrationally hostile to voices for change within their own movement (and I am aware that the Radfem benchmark for irrationality is set quite high). Look for rigidity and less compromise rather than more. Professionalised Radfem is blinded by panic at the prospect of the loss of quantities of money that they would never be able to access on merit. Unless the market of Marxist indoctrination really picks up, then when their funding finally goes, they have no real-world job skills. With the possible exception of the Women’s Fashion Retail, Food Service, and Janitorial sectors, they may never work again.

    Whatever passes for a strategic thinker is being crowded out by apparatchiks, true believers, and second-class minds to the point that they are becoming unable to operate; they see the “Mene Mene Tekel Ufarsin” on the wall; and they will be formulating personal exit strategies.

    By logically conceeding major MHRM points, Katie is playing a dangerous game either with sophistication or stupidity. While not eating their own young, Radfem strategy documents infant euthanasia; what qualmss will they have about reacting violently to dissent in their own ranks? Unless conceeding central articles of feminist dogma is an impenitrably Byzantine high level strategic change of approach, Katie is running a terrible risk of personal Red-on-Red violence.

    Speculation
    I am put in mind of “The Hunt for Red October”. Could Katie be pulling a “Sean Connery”? Telling us she wants to defect? If she does, she’d better be bringing the equivalent of undetectable submarine propulsion technology with her.

    Katie, if you’re reading this, you’ve found your “Jack Ryan”, only maybe without the big hair. You’re probably used to chick-flicks and non-competitive games rather than Chess and Espionage movies, so listen carefully; unless you are packing a game-changer – something like Audited Accounts of N.O.W. 2002-2012, then for all I care you can take your chances with the Red-on-Red you will draw down on yourself trying to defect from RadFem. If you do have something juicy like that, you are offered a place with the Men’s Human Rights Movement.

    Send me a message, and don’t forget; at the bottom of the hour, “Crazy-Ivan” to starboard.

    Or am I just overestimating my enemy for comedic effect?