Taxation

He who pays the piper, calls the tune. Or does he?

Taxation without representation is tyranny. ~ James Otis (1725-1783) American lawyer

Men and boys are discriminated against in many ways in modern democracies. The institutions which are most responsible for those discriminations are state-run institutions, an extraordinary state of affairs in countries where politicians are elected by the popular vote. This begs the question, what proportion of the tax revenues which finance the state is paid by men? Leaving aside the issue of corporation tax, which is overwhelmingly paid by corporations which are the inventions of men and still largely run by men, what about income tax?

A month ago I made a Freedom of Information Act request to Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs (‘HMRC’):

In the latest tax year for which figures are available, what were the collective income tax liabilities of (a) men, and (b) women?

Yesterday I received the answer, in the form of a letter written by a woman at HMRC. It was sent as an email attachment, charmingly titled ‘1219 Buchanan’. The key piece of information for the purpose of this article was a link to an analysis of income and income tax in 2010/11:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/income-by-year/table3-3.xls

So, what does this table tell us? A top-level view:

 

 

Men

Women

Total

Number of individuals with an income tax liability (million)

17.4

13.8

31.2

Proportion of all individuals

55.8%

44.2%

100.0%

Collective income before tax (£ billion)

556

301

857

Proportion of collective income before tax

64.9%

35.1%

100.0%

Collective Income tax liability (£ billion)

108

43.6

151.6

Proportion of collective income tax liability

71.2%

28.8%

100.0%

 

Progressive income tax rates adversely affect far more men than women. To illustrate the point, let’s look at the incomes and income tax liabilities in the £50,000 – £70,000 band. The income and income tax figures relate only to income earned, and income tax paid, in this band. So for an individual earning, say, £55,000 p.a., £5,000 will be in this analysis:

 

 

Men

Women

Total

Individuals with incomes £50,000 – £70,000

1,000,000

373,000

1,373,000

Proportion of individuals with incomes £50,000 – £70,000

72.8%

27.2%

100.0%

Collective income in this range (£ billion)

58.1

21.3

79.4

Proportion of collective income in this range

73.2%

26.8%

100.0%

Collective income tax liability in this range (£ billion)

11.9

4.3

16.2

Proportion of collective income tax liability in this range

73.5%

26.5%

100.0%

 

After decades of women entering the workplace in considerable numbers, and flooding into male-typical fields of employment – particularly fields which are well-paid, low-risk, in safe surroundings, public sector, and with ‘human interest’, such as medicine – British women collectively pay just 28.8% of the government’s income tax revenues which largely finance the state which preferences women throughout their lives.

It’s often said that women’s lesser participation in the workplace is largely attributable to women staying at home to look after young children, but the impact of this factor is far lower than is commonly supposed. For one thing, few women experience more than a decade of looking after young children, in a potential working life of nearly 50 years. In The Glass Ceiling Delusion I cited official data showing that women are markedly less likely than men to engage in paid employment, and markedly more likely than men to work only part-time, throughout their potential working lives. This shouldn’t surprise us. It’s ‘real world’ support for a theory published in 2000 by the renowned sociologist Catherine Hakim, Preference Theory. A summary here:

http://c4mb.wordpress.com/2012/07/19/dr-catherine-hakims-preference-theory/

Dr Hakim’s research uncovered the startling fact that while four in seven British men of working age are ‘work-centred’, just one in seven British women is. Women might say they want equality of outcomes, but the stark fact is that – with a few notable exceptions – they’re simply not prepared to put in the hard work required to reach that goal. So the state does all in its power to give them that equality, in exchange for their votes. We shouldn’t be surprised that in the modern age women show a marked preference (compared with men) to vote for left-wing parties.

What benefits do men get for collectively paying £2.48 in income tax for every £1.00 paid collectively by women? I’m not aware of a single area in which the state – when it demonstrates favourable treatment for one gender over the other – favours men over women. In return for paying 71.2% of the total income tax bill, men (and boys) get the following in return:

1. Boys are made ashamed of their natures by a highly feminised education system which plays to girls’ relative strengths. For every two male undergraduates in British universities today, there are three female undergraduates;

2. Anti-male legislation, and poorer state provision of services compared with that enjoyed by women;

3. Men are increasingly being denied access to political office through all-women prospective parliamentary candidate shortlists;

4. There’s no ‘Minister for Men’, while there’s a ‘Minister for Women;

5. Men hold little more than one-third of public sector jobs, yet the Equality Act (2010) permits public sector bodies to favour women in their recruitment and promotion processes. For every three women registered as unemployed, four men are;

6. Men are being passed over for promotion in the private sector due to the government’s bullying of companies to increase the proportion of women in senior positions, despite the overwhelming evidence that corporate financial performance will decline as a result1

7. Men are obliged – through their taxes – to finance women’s ‘choice’ to have children when those women otherwise wouldn’t have the financial means to support them;

8. Men are obliged to financially support children when women cause contraceptive methods to fail, primarily by ‘forgetting’ to take their contraceptive pills;

9. Men are economic impoverished by sometimes savage divorce settlements, regardless of the proportion of the couple’s joint wealth which was inherited or earned by the men;

10. Men are denied access to their children following relationship breakdowns, because the justice system won’t enforce contact orders;

11. Men are assumed by the police and justice system to be solely responsible for domestic abuse/violence, if their partners claim they are;

12. Men receive virtually no support when they suffer domestic abuse/violence;

13. Paternity fraud. It’s believed that up to 30% of children in the UK are being supported financially by men who’ve been misled to believe they’re the children’s biological fathers. Paternity fraud is a criminal offence in the UK, yet not one woman has ever been convicted of the crime;

14. Men receive poorer provision of services aimed at early diagnosis of gender-specific life-threatening conditions;

15. Men face higher incarceration rates, and more onerous sentences, when convicted of the same crimes as women;

16. Men face ruin at the hands of spiteful women making false rape allegations, even if they’re cleared of the charges, due to the lack of anonymity for rape suspects;

17. Men represent the vast majority of former military personnel who suffer from physical and mental health problems, including Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. They often find the provision of support services to be poor;

18. Homeless men experience poor provision of support. The vast majority of homeless people are men, especially ‘rough sleepers’;

19. There’s negligible state funding of initiatives to discourage men from committing suicide. The suicide rate among British men is around three and a half times higher than the suicide rate among women;

20. Men typically live 4-5 years less than women, but they must wait longer for their state pensions.

Let’s remind ourselves that British men collectively pay 71.2% of the government’s income tax revenues. How much more income tax do they pay, compared with women?

£64,400,000,000

For American readers, this equates to approximately

$100,000,000,000

It would be intriguing to learn the equivalent figure for other democracies.

You’d expect governments to treat men and boys better than they do, wouldn’t you? The prime objective of our new party Justice for Men & Boys (and the women who love them) will be to persuade British governments to start doing exactly that.

I’m finding the mass media ever more willing to give exposure to well-reasoned arguments. I’ve just contributed to a phone-in debate on a BBC Radio 4 programme, You and Yours, devoted to the topic of increasing the representation of women in the senior levels of business. I was given plenty of time to put my points across. On Thursday 14 March I’ll be appearing on Jeremy Vine’s BBC Radio 2 show, which regularly has audiences of more than six million listeners.

1http://c4mb.wordpress.com/improving-gender-diversity-on-boards-leads-to-a-decline-in-corporate-performance-the-evidence/

About Mike Buchanan

Mike Buchanan is a British men's human rights advocate who leads the political party he launched in 2013, Justice for men & boys (and the women who love them). He was a business executive for 30 years before taking early retirement in 2010. He's written nine books and is also a publisher. His last three books have been concerned with gender and gender politics, the most recent being 'Feminism: the ugly truth' (2012).
In 2012 he launched The Anti-Feminism League and Campaign for Merit in Business. He runs a blog demonstrating that men and boys suffer far more grievously from sexism than women and girls, The Alternative Sexism Project.

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  • Bewildered

    FTSU! material . But the big question is will they see the truth through the thick clouds of their perceptions ?

  • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

    Bewildered, thanks. I’ll do what I can to drop the headline figures – and some of the discriminations against men – into my narrative on Thursday’s radio show.

    Mike Buchanan

    JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS
    http://j4mb.wordpress.com

  • Stephen O’Brian

    Great work Mike and congrats on getting increasing media exposure.
    It seems that whatever the outcome at the voting booth, the formation of a political party is getting people’s attention.
    Note to defeatist Americans. It isn’t the possibility of having a MHRA president, or even Congressman or lower level politician elected. It’s the fact that in forming a MHRA type party you would draw valuable media attention to MHRA issues – as Mike is doing admirably well.

    BTW Mike – as you rightly point out in the UK men not only die earlier in life, but also retire later than women in UK too.
    So women are carried by men’s tax contribution for longer in retirement and thus live about two voting cycles longer. Thus currently given the respective sexes voting patterns which you allude to men are forced to financially support a system rigged against them as many women are still voting (for gynocentric politicians doling out stuff to them) whilst their male counterparts are already in the grave having worked their collective arses there. Truly a disgusting case of male disposability enshrined in law.

    • Near Earth Object

      The way to go…

      “…forming a MHRA type party you would draw valuable media attention to MHRA issues – as Mike is doing admirably well.”

    • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

      Stephen, that’s a good point you make. The establishment of a party HAS sparked interest e.g. people are forced to ask themselves, ‘Why would anyone want to form a party to fight for men’s rights?’ Once people ask that simple question, and they find strong answers on AVfM and elsewhere, the MHRM will – in my view – kick up a gear.

      Another thing which may be of interest to anyone mulling over whether to be the first to form a new party (particularly in the US). We’ve seen a very marked increase in donations since we publicly announced our intention to form the party. I think people see it as a concrete move in the right direction, so they’re more willing to open their wallets. And when all is said and done, political parties need to be financed. It probably also helps that nobody associated with the party draws any income from it, so 100% of donations go towards campaign costs.

      Finally, the party logo designed by that fine MHRA Neil Westlake has attracted a LOT of favourable comment:

      http://j4mb.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/new-party-logo/

      Erin Pizzey wrote, ‘I really love it!’

      • Near Earth Object

        All the best with what you are doing, Mike, it is a great direction to move in.

        Bless Erin!

      • Roger O Thornhill (George Kaplan)

        Great logo!

      • Krolll

        You’re doing a great job, i wish there was a party like yours in the Netherlands! About the new logo: I’d prefer it to be looking more like this:

        http://oi47.tinypic.com/29aywyq.jpg

        (it’s just a sketch I made, I wanted to resize and tilt the woman’s face)

        • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

          Thanks Krolll. I too wish someone in the Netherlands would start a MHR party. Amsterdam is my favourite city in the world, and I don’t even smoke dope. If someone paid my travel costs I’d be over like a shot to give what advice I could, and hopefully find ten minutes to pop into my favourite tobacconist not far from Dam Square, which sells Havana cigars for a fraction of what they cost in the UK.

  • confusion

    This looks like a good response to keep in one’s pocket for when the mythical wage gap comes up.
    “Women make 75% of what men do? Then why is it that men are still paying three quarters of the overall income tax?”
    For once they’ll be the ones jumping to explain that it’s not that simple.

  • keyster

    Here in the states this is being done through ObamaCare, where insurance companies are being told women get “free” healthcare for female specific exams and treatments, while men foot the bill.

    The gender discrimination within ObamaCare is not discussed in our media.

    • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

      Keyster, that’s appalling. I’m starting to wonder whether the ‘differential taxes paid’ angle might not be the key to really driving interest among men, especially in the US. Given that British men pay 72% of all income tax, the equivalent of $100 BILLION, what on earth must the figures for the US be? Britain’s National Health Service is equally appaling for people of all classes, while I understand poor Americans have a harder time of things. Which suggests there are reasons for men in ALL socioeconomic classes to be angry, especially in the US.

      • keyster

        Britain’s National Health Service is equally appaling for people of all classes, while I understand poor Americans have a harder time of things.

        We have Medicaid for the poor.

        If you’re middle-class (have some tangible assets), but you’re caught without health insurance by say a heart attack or cancer, the costs can wipe you out.

        ObamaCare mandates everyone have health insurance – so if everyone has health insurance, costs should come down. That’s the theory anyway.

        The ultimate goal is to have an NHS style system, after the one they’re trying to implement collapses.

  • gastirad

    Bravissimo Mike !
    People will always vote for a political leader who cares for the proper way to use their money.
    We could find lots of other ways men are discriminated against.
    Divorce laws: Male partners in families brings in 60% of earnings, on average, but get less than 50% after divorce and often much less.
    No links with the fact that women initiate 70% of divorce ?
    Same with retirement benefits, healthcare …

  • malcolm

    Well done Mike! You are bringing clarity to this debate, something that has been lacking for such a long time.

    I’m actually surprised HRMC was forthcoming with those numbers.

    • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

      Thanks Malcolm. I was surprised too, indeed I was expecting to write an article fulminating against the unwillingness of HMRC to supply the data

      • TigerMan

        Perhaps she senses the zeitgeist is about to change and wants to get in the good books of those who hold the keys to tomorrow! ;)

  • TigerMan

    Bravo Mike -this information coupled with the government spending on womens issues vs men’s has got to blow a hole a mile wide through any whining bullshit that having fewer women “at the top table” means women interests are not represented fairly! Actually they are quite correct come to think of it as womens interests are indeed not represented fairly because they are represented very UNFAIRLY compared to men. ;)

  • TigerMan

    Oh by the way for non uk readers those two radio shows not only have very large audiences but the listener-ship is weighted towards the well educated and well heeled in our society. Getting slots on those programs (as well as the ones he’s already appeared on) is a massive boost for getting men’s issues across not only to a mainstream audience but to a highly influential one as well :)

    • Roger O Thornhill (George Kaplan)

      Brilliant!

  • Kimski

    Well done, Mike.

    “Men and boys are discriminated against in many ways in modern democracies.”

    The politcal systems of most western nations ceased to be democracies, when the emotionally driven herd of voters outnumbered the ones, who originally put said political system into place. At the moment it doesn’t matter if you vote left or right or at all. The elected representatives on both sides are too busy sucking up to that majority to care about anybody else.
    Just saying..

    I used to always vote, but I don’t anymore.
    I simply fail to see the point.

    • TigerMan

      “seized” should be “ceased” = there fixed it for you :)
      Oh excellent point by the way :)

      • Kimski

        Thank you for correcting my english which stinks. :D

        • TigerMan

          Well if english is not your first language youi have been doing remarkably well :)

          • Kimski

            It is, but 35 years of living abroad has taken it’s toll.
            :(

          • TigerMan

            One of my Aunts went to France and became a nun – by the time I met her she spoke english with a strong french accent and told me she dreamt and thought in French! lol

        • Roger O Thornhill (George Kaplan)

          Don’t feel bad, I struggle with English. And it’s the only language I know :-\

  • napocapo69

    One of the most politically incorrect truths.
    Just imagine Cameron taking the speech and reading this…

  • http://www.judgybitch.com Janet Bloomfield (aka JudgyBitch)

    Wow, Mike. That is just stunning! I knew that since men on average work longer and harder than women, they would pay more tax.

    But +70% of all taxes?

    Unbelievable.

    • Kimski

      In Denmark every woman gets 2,4M DKr during her lifetime from the state, while every man pays a little over 800.000 DKr to the state during his.
      These numbers apply to most western nations with very little difference, and is all part of the illusion that women can make it on their own, considering who the vast majority of fundings are extracted from.

    • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

      Thanks Janet. I’m starting to think this might be an issue which really has ‘legs’ with non-MHRAs

  • Xevaster

    Let me get my shrill feminist voice going…”See that just proves the men make more than wimin! The Wage gape is real. See! It is only fair pay more because they make so much more than us.”

    Anyway, Very interesting article. I wonder if the numbers are the same over here in Canada.

  • SPECULA

    The nice people in Boston refused to allow a highly taxable commodity to be imported into their colony, called tea. Citing ‘No taxation, without representation!” back in the ‘Mother country’. 1773.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party
    Well, ~250 years later, it seems that Jolly Old England hasn’t got the message yet, OR that once the tax revenue is legitimately collected with elected representatives, the ‘marketing’ of votes to a demographic that VOTES AT A HIGHER RATE than all males, (under senior ages) the issue is resolved by activism that is eco-political.
    Congratulations on starting a political party.

    One virtual ‘Tea Party’ (not to be confused by the far Right U.S.A. branch of the Republicans) seems to be overt non-participation in the piracy of marriage and family formation/childlessness. And, the covert ‘failure to achieve/prosper’ in the economy/career by male youth, across the ‘Western world’.
    In both cases far less tax revenue is collectable, and no one in government gives a damn. For now. The Man-cession, (double-dip ‘recession’ with mostly male youth ‘oppressors’ leaving the economy of work involuntarily, chronic – estimated to be as high as 50% in parts of the EU.)
    This is a time when governments better start caring, or their agenda mandate as pro-feminists might be unsupportable financially… a London Tea Party no one actually saw happen… same effect, the END to gender colonialism.
    Jolly Good Show, Mate. :-)

    Patrick
    the other London, in Ontario, Canada.
    World Figure Skating Championships on here this week, see http://www.worlds2013.ca/

  • Steveyp333

    Mike, massive props for the radio spots.

    These figures are absolutely staggering, and portray a frighteningly stark picture – men are being used as work mules so that women can sit on their fucking asses and churn out as many kids as they want.

    And no doubt plenty of those womens’ husbands/boyfriends are handing them money on top.

    Suddenly, those groups of mothers sitting around every shopping centre in the middle of the day sipping expensive lattes and wearing designer clothes makes a whole lot more sense.

  • Robert Sides

    Mike, have you contacted John Waters at the Irish Times? He might be able to provide some good exposure for you. Can’t hurt to see if he’d interview you.

    I corresponded with him 15-20 years ago. He’s written some pro-male pieces…plus went through some “difficulties” regarding custody when he had a child with the singer, Sinead O’Connor.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Waters_(columnist)

  • The Unforgiven

    Hmm… Explains why all of the working poor that I know are men, most of my coworkers have been divorced and have to pay there exes almost every penny they have, wile they live in squaller, working hazardous and grueling jobs, so princess can live it up.

    My friend told me that his wife hasn’t even worked in 5 years because of the substantial amount of alimony she gets from him, on top of this she gets a shitload of money from some government assistance bullshit fund for women, like she needs assistance, she drives a mercedes for christ sake! Meanwhile he lives in a shack and can hardly afford to even buy the basic necessities he needs so that he can even work.

    Its fucking sick and inhumane what is being done, boys are being cheated out of a decent education, men are being kicked out of higher education, kicked out of the comfy jobs with air conditioning and even kicked out of our own homes and its all being done with our tax dollars.

    I wonder when men will finally wake up and get tired of being treated like second class citizens by the very government they pay for.

    Im glad that I have decided to ghost at a young age, I don’t want the parasites in the U.S. government using my hard earned money to fund courts, programs and laws that essentially turn men into public slaves.

    • Stephen O’Brian

      Who is John Galt?

  • http://bcdad.blog.com Kalan Chinuck

    Keep it coming Mike. You’re an inspiration, the poster child for ‘this is what an MRA looks like.’

  • MGTOW-man

    Thank you Mike, for all you do to help men and boys. You are a shining example of what more men need to be. I am always encouraged to read your stuff. Perhaps, when you get the ball rolling, the rest of us can get behind you and help it snowball into the “avalanche” that will follow.

    You are an inspiration.

    There is one thing for sure, you will not have your head hung in shame when the boys—the future men—ask, and they WILL: “What did you do to help stop misandry and male punishment?”

    Thank you so much.

  • belindabrown

    I think it’s brilliant that men are drawing attention to these injustices and it had often occurred to me what a fuss feminists would make of it if women had higher suicide rates, homelessness rates died younger etc. So I think this is all great. But there are a few things I disagree with. Buchanan suggests that women only need ten years out of the work place to rear children. Actually rearing children is a lifetime’s work and even up to secondary school they benefit a lot from having a parent who is around to make sure they don’t spend too much time on computer games, that there is someone at home to ensure that they do their homework and that there is tea on the table. It might sound trite but actually all those sorts of things are important. There are lots of other things which women do when they are not at work – they do care for the elderly, raise money for charities, help out at schools. I don’t expect the state to support me in those activities and I don’t expect to have special privileges in the work place on account of them. Of course women probably did much more of this type of activity prior to feminism and as a result of feminism we are more dependent on the state and therefore men in general to ensure that these things get done. Previously we were more dependent on the individual man we had chosen to be with (which will have had its own problems). Basically women’s contribution may be less apparent but I don’t want it written off.

    Oh yes and we must do a reasonable job of looking after our husbands as married men live longer than unmarried men (whereas married women don’t live as long as unmarried probably because of the toll of childbirth etc)

    I also disagree with what Mike says about men footing the bill when women accidentally get pregnant from taking contraceptive pills. Men should absolutely be just as responsible for contraception and some women don’t like taking hormone altering pills. Of course once men foot the bill they should certainly have access to their children and a major role in their child’s life but don’t just leave contraception to women.

    Also this question of paternity fraud – well the child will be totally your child – I am sure it has happened through the ages and resulted in children who are totally devoted to their father regardless of biological connection. Of course if it is used to get a father to pay out for a child with whom he has not contact that is terrible but otherwise I don’t think you should pay so much attention to it. And who knows there may even be situations where women have ended up looking after their husband’s ‘love’ child.

    Oh yes and finally I think feminism has done some useful things – it is a lot easier for women to work than prior to feminism and also men and their children do seem to really value and appreciate the extra time which they have looking after their children due to changes in employment laws – for which feminism is responsible.

    • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

      Belinda, thanks for making some interesting points. I’m very pushed for time at the moment, so I’ll limit myself to just two of the points you make.

      1. If in a sexually active couple the woman is taking the contraceptive pill, surely it’s reasonable for the man to expect her not to ‘forget’? Several women have told me they ‘forgot’ in order to get pregnant by a man who didn’t wish to have children. This is a financial and emotional assault on men.

      2. As for men financially supporting kids who they’ve been misled into believing are their own, to my mind this is just as evil. Let’s do a gender switch here. Would you think it OK for a woman to be required to work 20+ years to support another woman’s kids?

      Both forms of paternity fraud are covered in our party’s public consultation document:

      http://j4mb.wordpress.com/our-public-consultation-exercise-2/

      The male contraceptive pill can’t arrive soon enough. But naive men won’t take it, and they’ll be financially and emotionally assaulted as a result, with the justice system (72% financed by men, 28% by women, in the UK) assaulting them too if they don’t comply with manipulative women’s demands.

      Mike Buchanan

      JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS
      (and the women who love them)

      http://j4mb.wordpress.com

      • TigerMan

        Just listened to your spot on the Jeremy Vine show and once again I have to give you much praise for the way you kept your cool with the feminist journalist attack dog Laura Bates.
        Laura was peddling without shame a doctrine which makes the implicit assumption that aside from anatomical differences any other differences between the sexes are purely down to socialisation and therefore any inequalities that arise are thereby down to “discrimination”.
        The biggest fallacy of all of course that I see consistently pushed by feminists is what a New Zealand MRA (Peter Zohrab) called “The Frontman Fallacy” which is the assumption that a predominance of men in parliament etc means that women and their interests will not be fairly represented – the problem with this assumption however is it does not account for the reality of male chivalry both personal and institutional. Nor does it account for the bigger payoff in pandering to women and their interests for more votes or kudos.
        The day when radical feminists acknowledge this reality is the day hell freezes over because once they do their primary complaint about discrimination will be so shot through with holes it would be making points for the other side.
        Anyway you were very much in the heart of enemy territory and given the time you were allowed you did a sterling job of sticking to your guns and getting your main points across and in this respect at least I thought Jeremy was somewhat helpful in bringing the discussion back on topic as Laura was evidently very uncomfortable with dealing with that and did all she could to derail the topic.
        The readers calls and emails were of course mixed with feministspro-feminists of both sexes spouting the usual crap but supporters were also quoted and what was really heartening was the housewife who wrote in fully supporting your points. (She will have the sisterhood gnashing their teeth!)
        Saying essentially that women make their choices how they prioritise their lives and can’t expect to have it both ways at once etc.
        Anyway here is the article by Peter Zohrab where he gives a fuller explanation of how and why he coined the term “The Frontman Fallacy”.
        I think this is a good weapon to have handy whenever feminists try to play the numbers game regarding representation in x. :)

        • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

          Thanks TigerMan, good points. Have already been contacted for two more BBC radio appearances (Radio 5 Live about 11.00 tonight, and Radio Ulster tomorrow morning) and LBC want me to appear tomorrow lunchtime. I appear to have lit the blue touchpaper haha!

          • TigerMan

            Great news! (Fist pumping the air here!)
            Will try and catch as many of those shows as possible especially the radio 5 live one tonight as I don’t usually go to bed before 2am! lol ;)

          • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

            Thanks TigerMan. Planning to put up files of any TV or radio appearances on YouTube, but three radio shows in the next 24 hours have already resulted from my appearance on Jeremy Vine’s show this lunchtime:

            11.00 tonight BBC Radio 5 Live
            09:30 tomorrow BBC Radio Ulster
            14:00 ‘ish’ tomorrow LBC

      • belindabrown

        I’d agree it is awful for women to manipulate men in that way especially as there are systems in place to make men pay for a child they didn’t intend to bring into the world. I hope it doesn’t happen too often.

        With paternity fraud – this has happened all through the ages – imagine there is a happy family and then the woman is unfaithful and gets pregnant – but she does love her husband etc etc….it would be wrong to break up the whole family on account of it…I actually knew a family this happened to – the father found out when his middle daughter was 12 that she wasn’t his (she was his best friend’s who told him out of spite) – he had loved the child as his own and she loved him all totally traumatic but he went on loving her and the family stayed together. I think men have the capacity to be incredibly generous like that – it seems to me more so than women. The point I think I am making is that the child isn’t the other person’s child – the child is your child.

        • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

          Unbelievable. Let’s do a gender switch. If a man has sex with a his wife’s friend, the friend has a baby as a result, the wife should be forced by the state to work for 20+ years to financially support the other woman’s child?

          • belindabrown

            Mike in the example I gave what would have been achieved if the man left the scene – three children without their dad – he loved them they loved him – I don’t really want to get caught up arguing about it because I basically agree with you about most things – but I actually think the guy did something totally heroic and I certainly wouldn’t have blamed him one jot if he had done otherwise. I don’t really believe in doing gender switches but if my husband had an affair and I got to keep the baby – hmmm well I would have got something positive out of it and I mean that. I’ll read what you say about it in your manifesto – I may find I agree with what you say in that form.

      • belindabrown

        Mike I’ve read the consultation document and think I do want to comment on the paternity fraud section but it says that only members or donors can comment within the document – as I’m neither do I just put any responses here?

        • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

          Hi Belinda. We normally ask people to make a minimum contribution of £20.00 (for party funds) to give feedback on our public consultation document, but we’ll happily waive this for AVfM staff, article writers, and commenters. Email me at mb1957@hotmail.co.uk and I’ll send you the ‘Word’ edition of the document, Thanks.

          Mike Buchanan

          JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS
          (and the women who love them)

          http://j4mb.wordpress.com

    • Stephen O’Brian

      “Actually rearing children is a lifetime’s work”.
      That’s a gross exaggeration. I think anyone hanging onto their offspring and treating them as dependents when their grown adults has major psychological issues and should get therapy.

      “married men live longer than unmarried men”
      I think that despite studies apparently supporting this statement it’s becoming something of a fallacy. There has been an explosion of Men’s Health media besides which the average length of marriage throughout the western world is only something like 7 years, so the idea that married men live longer than unmarried men seems rather odd.

      “I also disagree with what Mike says about men footing the bill when women accidentally get pregnant from taking contraceptive pills. Men should absolutely be just as responsible for contraception and some women don’t like taking hormone altering pills”.
      That wasn’t what I read Mike to be saying.
      I think what he’s rather referring to is the fact that with a dozen or so forms of contraception at her disposal it is virtually impossible for modern woman to become accidentally pregnant. Men entrust women to take contraception without putting a gun to their heads and forcing them to take it. So then the onus is on women to honor such an agreement. Clearly with so many ‘oopsie’ pregnancies many don’t.

      “Also this question of paternity fraud – well the child will be totally your child – I am sure it has happened through the ages and resulted in children who are totally devoted to their father regardless of biological connection. Of course if it is used to get a father to pay out for a child with whom he has not contact that is terrible but otherwise I don’t think you should pay so much attention to it. ”
      Wow! That’s disgusting right there.
      Let’s unpack your statement to see what you’re saying.
      Some other man’s offspring will be yours – fallacy. They are another man’s genetically.
      In effect you’re saying that men aren’t worthy of being guaranteed their bloodline continuing, but should pay through blood, sweat and tears to raise kids who aren’t their own, and in the process let lying, duplicitous cuckolding women off the hook.

      “children do seem to really value and appreciate the extra time which they have looking after their children due to changes in employment laws – for which feminism is responsible”.
      There is absolutely no proof that feminism has in any way advocated for men to have closer relations with children. In fact on balance the evidence is overwhelmingly the reverse. Just read this site for myriad examples.

      That’s my intellectual response to your post.
      My visceral response is “fuck off with the treating men as disposable and kids as commodities. No amount of magical think is going to make feminism OK. That boat sailed long ago”.

      • belindabrown

        Stephen I don’t think feminism is okay but I do think there are some positive things which have come out of it and it would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater. As I understand it there are changes in employment law which enable men to spend more time with their kids and that is a good thing. On the whole feminism has probably done more harm to relations between fathers and children than good but if there is anything positive it should be acknowledged.
        I replied to Mike about the paternity fraud thing – there must be many of us around who aren’t genetically related to our fathers but our father’s love us and we love them and genes aren’t that important. After all its only recently you could actually test it. I’m not advocating it – I suppose its to do with my attaching a great deal of importance to the family …I knew people would get really cross with me about that.

      • belindabrown

        About your first point – child rearing is a lot longer than the ten years Mike allowed for it. Of course you shouldn’t hang on to your kids but then your kids go on to have kids and you help out with them. Also for lots of women their priorities (and possibilities) just really change after bringing up a family and I don’t think you feel like dedicating yourself to work in the same way as you did pre-family. They are still however engaged in valuable and important activity.

    • Carlos

      It’s really not possible to get “accidentally” pregnant now days — and certainly not with contraceptive pills. Furthermore, pregnancy no longer directly translates to parenthood given the plethora of reproductive rights (which women hold exclusively.)

      Paternity fraud is a truly hideous and vile crime. It robs one father of an opportunity at a relationship with his biological son, a son a relationship with his biological father and cons another man into investing his resources (financial, emotional, spiritual, etc) into a child that is not his. The fact that paternity fraud is not criminally sanctioned is, in and of itself, sufficient evidence to totally discount the theory of “male privilege.”

      • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

        Carlos, I may have misunderstood your final point, but paternity fraud IS a criminal offence, in the UK at least. By any count there must be MILLIONS of British men unknowingly supporting children who they think are biologically their own, but aren’t. It’s one reason my party is calling for mandatory paternity testing at birth (se p.11 of our draft consultation exercise document, below).

        http://j4mb.wordpress.com/our-public-consultation-exercise-2/

        The Child Support Agency publicly admitted in 2008 that it had records of more than 1,200 women who’d attempted paternity fraud, but paternity tests had found them out. One wonders how many men don’t think of asking for a test… and not one woman has ever been convicted of paternity fraud in the UK. It’s a vicious and widespread assault on men.

        Mike Buchanan

        JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS
        http://j4mb.wordpress.com

  • OneHundredPercentCotton

    In researching the topic of disappearing male teachers I came across a feminist commenting that it’s ALL MEN’S FAULT they make the most money but have the least say BECAUSE THEY DON’T VOTE.

    I am curious myself why men have stopped voting, but one “theory” I have is with our present Male Prison Population/On Paper situation a large swath of male voters are INTENTIONALLY banned from participating in the voting process.

    • TigerMan

      That is a good point but I suspect the main reason is that men have far more reason to be disenchanted with voting than women because no matter who gets in the focus is more on womens needs than men’s both in terms of spending and policy.

  • justman

    Mike,

    The slant of this article is too right-wing for my taste. Consider the following:

    Rich people (in the US) also pay a lot more taxes than the middle class, and that is solely because they have MUCH higher total income than the middle class.

    Should rich people “call the tune”, as you say, of government because they pay more taxes per person than other people? In the US, it is an unfortunate fact that the government is in fact controlled by and run for the benefit of the wealthy. They ARE calling the tune. It is the middle class that suffers.

    Now, don’t get me wrong: Middle-class men suffer much more than women because they get back less than 50% of the services that government offers, and often the laws and actions by your elected representatives and government officials (judges, prosecutors and police included) are actively discriminating against men in the most heinous ways.

    So, please do not think of men’s rights as a left/right issue. It is not. The Democrats are lousy at supporting men’s rights, but we should all know that the Republicans really only care about low tax rates for the rich and supporting crony capitalism and corporate welfare. Republicans will give token support and pander to some men, but they will not do anything, for example, about men’s reproductive rights, the inequities of divorce law, or draconian child-support regimes. Instead they will rail against gay marriage and try to scoop up some middle-class and poor voters that way.

    What is needed is a third (or fourth or fith) party that DOES care about men. The problem is that the US election system strongly disfavors a third party. Basically, when you vote for a third party candidate, you know your vote will go to waste and in effect you end up voting against the best one of the two major-party candidates. That applies in all elections, from President to US Congress to State-level offices and representatives.

    So if you want men to be heard politically, you have to work to change election laws in each state first. And that is very difficult to do, given the entrenched interests of the two-party system.

    • Stephen O’Brian

      “What is needed is a third (or fourth or fith) party that DOES care about men. The problem is that the US election system strongly disfavors a third party. Basically, when you vote for a third party candidate, you know your vote will go to waste and in effect you end up voting against the best one of the two major-party candidates. That applies in all elections, from Presiden to US Congress to State-level offices and representatives.

      So if you want men to be heard politically, you have to work to change election laws in each state first. And that is very difficult to do, given the entrenched interests of the two-party system”

      I think you’ve missed the point some of us are starting to make on this issue. There is acceptance of what you’re saying, however there is another very good reason for a party for Men’s Rights getting up and running in USA. For even if it stands a snowball’s chance in hell of being elected it draws attention to Men’s Rights. Indeed having such novelty value I reckon it would be quite a sensational thing to do, and certain segments of the main stream media revel in sensationalism.

      • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

        Thanks Stephen. Our strategy is to secure enough votes in marginal seats held by incumbent MPs of whatever party is in government, that those MPs lose their seats, when they might otherwise not have. There are about 25 marginal Conservative seats where the margin in the 2010 general election was under 1,000 votes. Those Conservative MPs are already nervous of UKip – UK Independence Party – and we intend that by May 2015, the next general election, they’ll be nervous of us, too.

        • TigerMan

          Indeed my take on the raison detre’ for Justice For Men and Boys Party is force those parties which are in the mainstream and thereby more likely to be the ruling party to take mens issues more seriously and encourage positive reforms.
          That said I don’t think we should put unrealistic expectations of Mike’s initiative – we have seen both new Labour and now the Conservative led coalition reneging on promises to do just that before most notably with Fathers For Justice when they were at the height of their popularity and activism.
          With that in mind I think we should all be prepared for the long haul and continue with whatever we can do to get the facts and counter arguments across to the general public.
          We have more chance of effectiveness now than perhaps at any other time as the form(s) and shape of the MSM is rapidly changing right before our eyes as the more interactive online media begins to predominate the traditional and print based forms.
          Therefore I see Justice for Men and Boys as a potentially powerfull tool in our armoury to change public perceptions and opinions on mens issues but I think alongside that we need to continue efforts to get as much influence in the online world as we possibly can because our enemy sure isn’t letting the grass grow under it’s feet either.

  • billybob

    EXCELLENT article, Mike, and information which is a devastating blow to so many claims by feminist ideologues. Thank you.

    —–

    I am not sure whether this radio show will be accessible via the internet from outside the UK, but Jeremy Vines’s show on Radio 2 is at 12h00 (midday – UK), and Mike Buchanan will be a guest on this show on Thursday,14th March 2013.

    web link to audio:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_radio_two

    (The local time (across the world) at which this show will be aired:
    http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fradio%2Fplayer+%2Fbbc_radio_two&iso=20130314T1155&p1=136&ah=2&am=5 )

    ps. The BBC notes that (from the link at: http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/outside_the_uk/):
    ” Most radio programmes are available to listen live or on demand outside the UK, in addition to podcasts, although sporting and other programmes may be subject to rights agreements.”

  • http://www.hermitparkclinic.com.au Greg Canning

    Bravo Mike, the “taxation gap” as you describe should always be explained when we are faced with the feminist dogma of the pay gap! As in the colonial Americas, taxation without representation should lead to a revolution and slowly but surely this is happening!

    • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

      Thanks Greg. As a quotations ‘geek’ I typically spend an obscene amount of time searching for the perfect quotation to head my articles. But after I’d found the following quotation for this article – from my international bestseller (NOT!) ‘Buchanan’s Dictionary of Quotations for right-minded Americans’ – nothing else came close.

      Taxation without representation is tyranny.
      James Otis (1725-1783) American lawyer

  • yurlungur

    “BBC Radio 4 programme, You and Yours, devoted to the topic of increasing the representation of women in the senior levels of business”

    Gordon Bennett, when are they ever going to shut up.
    Give em hell mike; ask them why they never do any topics for men like the lack of male teachers.

    • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

      Thanks Y. I think the women in the studio might have preferred it if I hadn’t called in. 5 minute section in the clip below. One of the women said I’m ‘part of the problem’. I felt distinctly unloved haha

  • feeriker

    Taxation without representation is tyranny. ~ James Otis (1725-1783) American lawyer

    “As it is WITH representation as well.” ~ Feeriker

    • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

      Haha thanks feeriker! Not sure everyone’s grasped my point in employing the Otis quotation, that MEN face taxation without representation. I seem to recall Americans once kicked British arses/asses over the matter, it’s time for Americans to start kicking some American arses/asses!

  • belindabrown

    I listened to Mike on Jeremy Vine and I would like to support what he said about women and work . I did some research into childcare that involved talking to mothers and we found that mother’s attitudes towards work could change quite dramatically after having children (Valuing Informal Care pp: 24-28). And just what I observe – it seems to me that once women have children work really isn’t as important as it was before and they happily downgrade their job or reduce their hours so that they can be more involved with matters closer to home. I wrote this in an article recently
    http://www.london24.com/news/international_women_s_day_the_loss_of_the_private_realm_by_belinda_brown_1_1969834
    and it doesn’t seem to have received any negative comments so I get the impression a lot of women agree with that.
    Also what that rather irritating woman (understatement) said about gender stereotyping is just not true – I naively tried to give my son a doll when he was 2 he chucked it across the room – whereas my little girl role played being a mother from as soon as she was big enough to hold a doll. It’s helpful having sons – they teach you how different the opposite sex is. Men seem to know that even before they have girls….

    • http://fightingfeminism.wordpress.com Mike Buchanan

      Thanks Belinda.There was a story recently in the UK about a mother who tried to get her young son to play with dolls but he kept pulling the heads off and putting them under the furniture. In ‘The Female Brain’ the psychologist Prof Louann Brizendine relates the story of a mother who tried to avoid gender-typical toys and gave her young daughter a red fire truck toy. One day she walked into her daughter’s room. The daughter had wrapped the truck in a small towel, was rocking it gently and murmuring softly, ‘Don’t worry, little truckie, everything will be all right!’

  • http://www.NewDemocracyWorld.org Dopesauce42

    So, we pay taxes and the government decides, without our consent, how to spend it?

    So, we are being fucked over by this system and the people who operate it.

    And the solution is to whine about it until they start spending the money the way we want them to?

    So, we have a partner who lies to us and steals from us, and we’re going to whine at them until they stop – or until we Think that they stopped.

    Doesn’t work in relationships of that scale, and it doesn’t work for relationships of a larger scale, either.

    Why are our sights set so low? The issue is the totally undemocratic nature of our society. Until that is addressed, we will ALWAYS have the lies and dictatorial powers decreeing the laws we must obey or be put in prison if not killed.

    Folks, its time to start Thinking About Revolution:
    http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/revolution/Thinking.pdf

    Before you jump down my throat thinking I’m a commie, keep in mind, I said ‘democratic revolution.’ Please tell me what is democratic about communism? Right, nothing is/was. And socialism? Right, same thing, just single party domination and “representative” government that is set up to prevent regular people from actually having the decision-making power.

    I’m talking about a revolution for REAL democracy. Imagine no law gets passed in your community without your participation? Imagine there is no ultra-powerful federal government to bully us into submission, claiming that they are commanded by our ‘elected representatives,’ we know by now that’s not a legitimate claim to authority. Imagine neighboring cities and communities work together via VOLUNTARY federation to organize the complex system of trade that our hospitals and schools etc depend on?

    I’m talking about YOU making decisions for YOUR life with YOUR neighbors. Everyone has equal political power. Sure, some people can rally people around an idea better, but these people should not be made ‘representatives’ who time and time again work only to increase their power and the powers of the ultra-rich.

    I have thought this through, so, lay your questions and accusations on me, I can more than handle it – but don’t think i will be dismissive or rude, not at all.

    -Peace!