Lifeboat-pink

Gender privilege in Titanic Era

During the past few months regular movie-goers could hardly avoid James Cameron’s film-trailer announcing the recent release of a 3D version of his Titanic movie in response to the Centennial the shipwreck this month. However, few are aware that the relationship between the motion picture industry and the disaster stretches back nearly a full century. Even fewer realize the two films that “frame” the 100-year span are gross distortions.

Staring a notable and authentic personality, Saved from the Titanic was the first movie in May of 1912. Twenty-three-year-old Dorothy Gibson was among the era’s highest paid movie stars and was also a Titanic survivor. She sketched-out the movie plot herself.

Dorthy Gibson

Dressed in the same clothes worn the night of the wreck, Dorothy played a young woman returning from a European vacation to marry her lover, a Navy Ensign. The young man learns of the shipwreck from a buddy who is a wireless operator. He is compelled to call upon the girl’s parents to inform them of the disaster.

Later in a post-disaster scene when Dorothy’s character is telling her family of the events at the dinner table, she is overcome and faints. Her mom calls upon the Ensign to resign from a seafaring career if he wishes to marry the girl. After some dramatics, the Ensign declines by announcing it would be dishonorable to abandon his duties to the Navy. Admiring the officer’s patriotism, the young lady’s dad says, “My daughter, there’s your husband”, as the final scene closes.

As befit her movie star image, Dorothy is portrayed as a heroine. But her actual conduct was lacking. When she realized the danger was serious, Dorothy became hysterical and entered the first of twenty lifeboats. Once upon the water she began to shiver and accepted an overcoat from a thereafter-coatless gentleman.

After the ship foundered a lifeboat crewmember wanted to return to rescue people thrashing in the water. Everyone aboard, including Dorothy, shouted him down. After the victims’ cries faded away, Dorothy proclaimed that the loss of life was minimal since most of the passengers were saved in lifeboats. She was silenced when a crewmember interrupted to say, “If the boats were filled, not more than a third could have escaped.”

Although married, Dorothy vacationed in Europe without her mate and was greeted with a $1,000 engagement ring by her extramarital lover upon returning safely in New York. She would not divorce her pharmacist-husband for another four years. Meanwhile she continued to accept the largess of her benefactor-lover who was a rising movie industry mogul. By the early 1920s she was living in Europe where she remained until her death by heart attack 1946.

A hundred years later, James Cameron’s 3D Titanic foists another misrepresentation. The familiar plot characterizes the leading lady as a victim of gender discrimination whose miraculous survival convinces her to thereafter lead a lifestyle that boldly challenges the evils of patriarchy. She is portrayed as a pioneering feminist decades ahead of Gloria Steinem and Jane Fonda.  In reality, far from being victims, the ladies of RMS Titanic were highly privileged. 

As the preceding table documents, three-of-every four women were saved as compared to only one-in-every-five men. Moreover, five-to-ten percent of male survivors were pulled out of freezing water, many of whom stood for hours on an overturned lifeboat. Finally, of the four First Class ladies who perished, at least three bravely elected to stay on board despite being offered a chance to enter a lifeboat. (The most oft-cited example was Ida Straus who was the 63-year-old wife of a Macy’s Department Store co-owner.)

Female privilege even trumped the needs of children. The fifty percent survival ratio for children is scandalous compared to the seventy-five percent fraction for adult women.

Contrary to feminist dogma, Titanic males convincingly prioritized the safety of women and children ahead of their own. While the ladies routinely accepted male sacrifice as a gender entitlement, some could unfairly take advantage of men who might simply have been alleged to have of evaded it. For example, two wives famously divorced surviving husbands. Each woman dubiously charged the men with cowardice on Titanic. Given the assumed era-specific female virtues — and reciprocal male obligations – such accusations were enough to condemn the men within society at-large.

Despite the obvious male sacrifices documented by survival statistics, modern feminists are determined to characterize women as victims and men as selfish perpetrators of the disaster. For example, Professor Ann Larabee of Michigan State University states:

Although many men seemed to have behaved admirably…They may simply have had a cavalier trust in technology. Some did not behave like gentlemen at all, jumping on top of women…and when in the boats refusing to return to the disaster site to save those in the water.

Thus, Larabee implies the disproportionate male death ratio merely reflects a false hubris in male inventions, to wit, the ship itself. (Later she contradictorily asserts that men ascribed a feminine identity to the ship in order to designate blame for technological failure on a female as well.)  She further implies that men alone failed to rescue those in the water, whereas women objected to returning even more often and forcefully than men. There are few reports of lifeboat ladies even suggesting a return.

Titanic Survival Table

Trivializing male disadvantages is popular sport among feminists. For example, women have outnumbered men on college campuses for so long that, The New York Times feels justified in publishing articles portraying men as advantaged because of their superior dating environment. Although men have long outnumbered women in the military I’d wager $100 against a good Cuban cigar that The Times has never published an article lamenting the dating disadvantages of male soldiers. More importantly, however, dating status is a trifling matter compared to the growing hostility toward males on campus where they are often forced into indoctrinations accusing them of being latent, if not active, rapists.  

As former Senator Moynihan was put it, “Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.” Simple honesty requires that feminists and Hollywood admit that the overwhelming gender privilege aboard Titanic favored ladies. Even among the crew, over ninety percent of the women were saved.

Sources: Larabee, Ann, “The American Hero and His Mechanical Bride”; Wilson, Andrew, Shadow of the Titanic; Biel, Steven, Down With the Old Canoe; Foster, John Wilson (Editor), The Titanic Reader; Wilson, Frances How to Survive the Titanic; Lord, Walter, A Night to Remember; Lord, Walter, The Night Lives On; Wade, Wyn Craig, Titanic; Marcus, Geoffrey, The Maiden Voyage; Thayer, John B. The Sinking of S.S. Titanic; Gracie, Colonel Archibald Titanic; Lightoller, Charles, Titanic and Other Ships

  • http://oathofman.com Aoirthoir An Broc Masculinist

    Attention women of the world,

    We men are uniting. We won’t be going down with the ship for you anymore.

    • .ProleScum.

      Yes. And make no mistake, the ship IS going down.

      • Tawil

        “Yes. And make no mistake, the ship IS going down”

        Recently came across the following (1990s) letter to the editor by author James Hillman:

        “The space devoted in Utne Reader and The Nation to Katha Pollitt’s piece on gender issues represents the continued disproportionate attention given to this contemporary symptom in our national psychological debate – the virtues of feminism and of the men’s movement notwithstanding. Is gender worth the trees felled for bringing it so often to print?… this obsession with gender by the psychologically interested citizenry continues two massive diversions from the issues at the core of our national malaise, issues such as racism; violence; inability to grieve, repent, and hold accountable; worship of The Economy; retreat to security; our addiction to innocence (denial); and that prime event of the ’90s—our sinking ship. The whole bloody planet- its species, primordial peoples, biosphere, differentiated languages, gene pools- is sliding fast into extinction. As the ship goes down, does it matter whether it’s men or women who are the first to drown? Even ‘victims’ can pull an oar.” http://imaginal.maxforum.org/2011/10/10/even-victims-can-pull-an-oar-2/#post2

        • JinnBottle

          Got a coupla comments…

          Re Hillman. Tho an original thinker, I see Hillman as a crochetty old man, who once was interested in men’s issues. Until he got bored and moved on. The thing is, tho, Hillman seems to “move on” only to those topics that immediately relate to where *he’s* at at the moment. E.g. awhile after hanging around with Bly, Robert Moore and Michael Meade (this last a mythographer and, IMO, the most intelligent and courageous of all of them) and doing the “men’s conference” thing, Hillman dropped out and wrote a book about old age.

          Re The Utne Reader: Just recently, after taking about a year’s hiatus for health reasons, I got back into recording books for the blind. (So I guess I’m not *totally* cynical about “Contribution” yet.) But before my time-off I used to read the network’s “Alternative Publications” segment – which included “Utne”, “Adbusters” – one or two other bimonthly mags. It was just a coincidence, they needed readers for “Alt Pub” when I first volunteered, and I said I’d read anything.

          At first, with the exception of their “Gender” pov, I enjoyed reading “Utne”; with Adbusters, they seemed to have a truly alternative approach to economics, politics, etc.

          But none of the “alternative publications” offered anything by way of *real* alternative as far as The Gender Issue(s) went: pantyline partyline, all the way. And as time went on, Eric Utne, always a teeterer on the edge of the Feminist suckhole, seemed to get weaker and tireder.

          Eventually, as you’d expect, he turned the show over to his ex(???) wife – who goes by the name Nine Utne…Somethingoranother. (My guess is, she retained the “Utne” for the claim on the well established publication, but kept the final surname as the usual fuck-you, Hubby, by exwives (or – what am I saying! – present ones).

          That, as you may guess, was the end of any semblance of balance, honesty and clarity the mag may once have had – which wasn’t much – on the Girl-Boy Thing. I found myself reading decade-old stuff from Camille Paglia and Howard Schwartz on the program, just for SOME kind of…well, a voice for men.

          Fortuitously, that was also the time my eyes ratcheted down another notch and I had to take a hiatus in reading.

          I’m back with the nonprofit station again (they’re actually great people there). But this time I’m reading my own material (which I printout in nice, seeable, doublespaced 12pt!). Yes, I’ll still contribute – but only to the right people, and if something’s in it for me (in this case, my ego).

    • http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

      I can’t find the article now, but in the last few days I read that “historically” men were not chivalrous toward women in ship wrecks, and that “historically” women had just as high a ship wreck mortality rate as men.

      This was supposedly based on research done on shipwreck survivor records.

      If true, I suspect the equality is based more on ships having adequate life boats available for ALL passengers and not just female passengers.

      Yes, the article did attempt to undermine the sacrifice and chivalry of men of this time as being non-existent. If anyone can find the article, please link it. I’d like to have another read of it. It did seem to reek of feminist CS.

    • akaskillz
      • Paul Elam

        Uh, yeah, that’s the ticket, men sacrificing their lives as a normal part of their gender role never happened. All a myth. Yeah, uh huh.

        • akaskillz

          It doesn’t say it was “all” a myth. Historically men have given their lives to ensure the survival of women/children in exponentially greater numbers than the other way around – but the survival statistics show that wasn’t the case with the prioritization of shipwreck victims.

          Why anyone who supports men’s rights would reject a study showing an area of history where gender discrimination wasn’t the expected norm is beyond me.
          “Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.”
          5 out of the 18 shipwrecks DID give the “women and children” order. But it was not the default protocol as cultural perception claims it to be.

          • Paul Elam

            You are making a distinction without a difference. It is a sufficient enough standard historically that it is still practiced today.

            On the Concordia efforts were made to instruct men to wait back behind women and children while life boats were loaded. Thankfully most of the men ignored it, but those instructions were still given by rescuers.

            When US Airways Flight 1549 was forced to land in the Hudson River, the order was give by the captain, “Women and children first.” That added to his prestige, after expertly landing the plane.

            Oh, and there is the Titanic, as documented above.

            It does not matter how you slice it, “women and children first” is still the standard, on sinking ships or anywhere else there is danger. Check your average heavy combat zone.

            Tossing some anecdotes, however valid on their own, does not change the nature of discrimination against men, or the societal perspective that their lives are less valuable. It is the weakest attempt possible make anyone question male disposability.

            So, as I said, a distinction without a difference. It therefore adds nothing of value to the discussion.

          • akaskillz

            Then talk about modern times. Talk about Concordia and Flight 1549. Don’t cite to the Titanic, because in this case, the Titanic is the anecdote, not the demonstrable rule.
            You have ready examples of recent gender transgressions that you could cite, but instead you refer to historical anomalies. It’s no better than feminists who cite half-truths about gender disparity, only far more outdated.

      • Bombay

        “The chivalrous code “women and children first” appears to have sunk with the Titanic 100 years ago.”

        What has gone down lately where it was announced women and children first? A flight in the Hudson and the Costa Concordia? So let’s look back a century to prove something is no longer happening when it is the current norm? Only a feminist would deny what is in their face.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/MRAGreatestHits MRA-GH

    There needs to be a universal declaration of official end and rejection of this type of chivalry. Recent events or simply switching on the tv or picking up a paper shows that this expectation is very much alive. White knights and feminists & anyone else for that matter need a memo. Men must be told its optional and ill-advised.

  • Tawil

    “Simple honesty requires that feminists and Hollywood admit that the overwhelming gender privilege aboard Titanic favored ladies.”

    And nothing has changed… the 2011 sinking of the cruise ship Concordia off the coast of Italy shows:

    ‘The worst part came when a lifeboat crew member told everyone, “Women and children first,” Smith said. “All these families who were clinging to each other had to be separated,” he added.’ http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-scene/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/MRAGreatestHits MRA-GH

      That’s exactly what I’m talking about. On what authority does he make a call like that? People enforcing these type of calls should re-educated. They should be held accountable which should include manslaughter charges. I wonder if these terms were outlined when people purchased tickets? If not, they did to sign up for sacrifice to perfect strangers.

      • Bombay

        If he called for one ethnicity to go first, would he have been charged with racism or a hate crime? Little do these people see how bias they are.

        • Raven01

          Bombay ^5. You are definitely onto something.
          As it stands women and children first is not part of any recognized maritime law. Therefore every male passenger of the Costa Concordia should be well within their rights to sue the every-loving crap out of the cruise line for gender discrimination.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/MRAGreatestHits MRA-GH

          Exactly. I wonder what would happen if a black man or Jew claimed that it was their ethnicity that was discriminated against and not that they were male? This situation needs some devils advocates. All men should boycott any cruise that has this policy of blatant bigotry. That should be the first thing a man asks if booking a cruise (maybe flights as well) Would they be so keen to pay for such tickets (or ironically their wife or girlfriends) when they know exactly where they stand? That they will be fish food because they have a penis. Get more life boats motherf%$@#^s. Actually that’s interesting that there always seems to be just enough life boats for all the female passengers?? Coincidence? maybe they’re the only passengers that are obliged to be saved..

      • Raven01

        People making that type of call need a punch in the melon. I’d be damned if I would let some cruise ship lackey inform me that my life is less valuable than that of anyone else. Or that children need fathers less than mothers (the pitifully outcome for children raised in single mother households brings light to the lie).
        The “patriarchy” is little more than enforced gynocentric chivalry and still those that benefit most from it make it out to be a burden to be a non-productive parasite living off of the good will of those they so despise. The simple answer would have been for them to get off of their fat arses and do for themselves. But, I guess it was more appealing to have big brother extort money on their behalf so they could pretend they were independent.
        Meanwhile, men are still dying to support their illusion or rather delusion.
        Funny how the very few women electing to act as men are (either willingly or by force) are lauded as extra-special-brave-women while, those few men acting like men are portrayed as subhuman-cowardly-scum.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/MRAGreatestHits MRA-GH

          We know how far any man would get that tried that in such a situation. He would literally be thrown overboard. That’s why there needs to be an official public declaration. No one needs to agree with it but if they take issue, they have the opportunity to tell us exactly why? That sure would be interesting. Cruise & airline companies should be asked for their official policy and stance on the matter, let them say it on the record them let the PR massacre and public debate ensue. This shit needs to come to a head, otherwise how many more hundreds or thousands of years will go by of this nonsense?

        • Raven01

          few men acting like women
          Not sure how I missed my error there.

  • Zorro

    “As former Senator Moynihan was put it…”

    No need for was

    Good article.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

    James Cameron is a disaster himself.

    His films time and again show ridiculously powerful and quite tremendous women amongst a rabble of incompetant men.

    When he made the film about the Titanic I was still drunkenly rolling about in blue pill paddocks, none the less I could not stand this film.

    The love scenes, the phoney dialogue the twits sweeping about into frame in their toff wrappings oh pass the chunder bag.

    So I see all this on screen and how the hell am I supposed to swallow that this is really what happened ? Nah nah nah…. no way. It’s like trying to convince me that that silly green puppet in E.T. is something I am supposed to invest a couple of hours of empathy in.

    So I change my diet to red and that greasy Titanic film hoists itself up a few pegs into the truly nasty.

    That’s right Mr Cameron, you did gloss over the ‘women living more than the blokes bit’ didn’t you ?

    So a great big shared slow golf clap on this this night a hundred years later. Shame on us all then and let that be the last hideous display of chivalry on a doomed vessel.

    The good news is that more and more men are saying, “That ship don’t fly no more with me.”

    • The Real Peterman

      At the beginning of that movie, Rose says “woe is me, I’m a powerless woman.” Yet at the end, we see she’s gone on adventures around the world after surviving the wreck. Well, which is it? Were women chained in the kitchen back then, or could they go on brave adventures? Can’t be both.

    • Kimski

      Actually it can’t come as no surprise, Dr.F, and I hate Titanic with a passion, too. Two hours of crap, followed by 20 minutes of action, and ending with even more crap.

      Cameron was married to Gale Anne Hurd, a daughter of a very wealthy investor, who fucked her way up through the ranks by marrying or dating brilliant moviemakers like Roger Gorman, Brian De Palma and James Cameron. Basically, another hypergamy story presented as anything but.

      Gale Ann Hurd has been active with the Hollywood Women’s Political Committee for years, and are a feminist of the worst kind. You know, the ones who pays for the ball with the latest husband’s money, and takes credit for the movies, without actually doing anything else but setting the rules for the narrative of the themes presented in them.

      In a lot of the blockbuster movies she has been involved in, that would of course be the world from a feminist perspective. You should know by now, that they are excellent at taking credit for everybody else’s work, while trying to present reality from a biased feminist viewpoint.

      Quote from News and commentary about Hollywood from a feminist perspective:

      “Dispassion is something of a trademark for Hurd, and while she admits she will lose her temper like anyone else, she has made a conscious effort not to do so in her work.

      “To some degree I think it’s still a sociocultural situation,” she says, “where if women lose their temper they’re labeled ballbusters, or whatever, that would never be applied to a male producer.”

      Whine, whine, whine, yakka-yakka-yakka..

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gale_Anne_Hurd

      http://movies.nytimes.com/person/95228/Gale-Anne-Hurd

  • jatkoroikka

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/04/sea-disasters

    I found this article interesting. Apparently men didn’t go down with the ship in most cases.

    • Tawil

      That’s interesting all right… interesting how much trouble people go to (including you posting that here) in order to obfuscate the fact that women have always been privileged to go ahead of children and men… regardless of other factors. That is the ideology that remains to this day.

      Children need to start coming first and adults second in no particular gender order.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

      No ?

      Hmmm – not as fast as your post is you can be sure of that.

    • blueface

      I made the mistake of following the link. The Swedes, those gender giants, came up with this drivel.

      They tried to shoot down the “myth” (just because it happened on the Titanic doesn’t make it real) of putting woman first because its natural to protect yourself in times of crisis, but still imply a moral imperative to save women first, because they are clearly disadvantaged in a boat sinking situation.

      Nothing in their report about recommending shipping companies to put on more fucking lifeboats than the bare minimum, though.

      A lesson in statistics, for the Swedes might be appropriate. Statistics only become statistics when you have comparable items. The usual phrase is comparing apples with apples.

      18 different ships sinking in 18 different situations with 18 different sets of crew, 18 different sets of passenger, 18 different sets of weather conditions, 18 different combinations of nearby assistance and 18 different distances from shore means your statistics are not worth shit.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

        Blueface I thank you for your post.

        With that, I am inspired to play 18 holes of golf with 18 mates and we are going to down 18 pints of ale while discussing how at 18 we were dills who knew it all.

        I’m glad I didn’t fall for this link clicking business splattered here as I knew right from the get go that I would end up in a cul de sac of drivel on all sides. You are braver than me.

        From Sweden you say ? Oh no… I have a brother just returned from living there and he tells me it was sheer hell for blokes and he is a blue pillarian.

        Right, back to golf as I hear it’s a disgustingly concentrated environment of blokes doing and chatting in their blokey way.

        F o r e

      • jatkoroikka

        I agree that comparing 18 separate shipwrecks is not ideal, but it does seem to be more representative than just looking at Titanic.

        • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

          Yeah, the same way comparing 1 apple to 11 oranges is more representative than 1 apple to 1 orange. Obfuscate the truth, you will not.

          • jatkoroikka

            Is comparing Titanic to 17 other shipwrecks really similar to comparing 1 apple to 11 oranges?

          • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

            @ jatkoroikka

            Hi,

            “18 different ships sinking in 18 different situations with 18 different sets of crew, 18 different sets of passenger, 18 different sets of weather conditions, 18 different combinations of nearby assistance and 18 different distances from shore means your statistics are not worth shit.”

            And written from a typical male-hating agenda, bias and perspective (Men Don’t Exist)?

            Far worse than apples and oranges, the consequences.

            The primary modern application of “statistics” in this context is for the express purpose of fucking the public mind. Nothing to do with honest observation. It’s about the data which they selectively exclude to present a distorted image. It’s phlegminist bedrock 101.

            Want to have a contest to see who can come up with more examples of self-sacrifice on behalf of the opposite sex? Hey that will be fun.. for me. Not so much for you. Come on jatkoroikka, let’s do it, and while we’re at it let’s get to your point, or as Paul more aptly points out, your purpose.

          • jatkoroikka

            @perseus

            If you believe that the statistics of the study are not worthwhile, alright. But how is Titanic any more representative of the gender norms at sea than any other individual “maritime accident”?

      • Kimski

        “because they are clearly disadvantaged in a boat sinking situation.”

        Ehh..That’s not entirely true. Actually women survive in cold water for a longer period of time than men, due to their extended layers of fat under the skin. That’s why a lot of longdistance swimming records in cold water are held by women. Also the increase in plasma thyroxine is more pronounced in the slower swimmers, (women), while the change in blood cortisol concentrations is higher in the gender having the most acute decrease in body temperature.

        http://www.doversolo.com/lynnecox.htm

        Again, the ones least likely to survive an extended stay in cold water are thrown in, because women and white knights think women should be protected from something they are more capable of surviving, than most men are. But of course there’s also the consequences of living a lifestyle that makes you as weak as an infant, to take into consideration here.

    • Paul Elam

      Indeed. Men did not act like lemmings in every case they were expected to.

      So what is your point?

      • jatkoroikka

        That men didn’t act like lemmings in every case they were expected to.

        • Paul Elam

          Does your point have a purpose?

          • jatkoroikka

            I do wonder if a special case like Titanic is entirely representative of women’s gender privilege in the “Titanic era”.

          • Kimski

            @jatkoroikka:

            Maybe you should take that discussion after taking a 20 minutes swim in subzero seawater, while staring up at a woman in a lifeboat, wearing another man’s warm wintercoat.
            I’ll bet that puts things into a more realistic perspective for you.

    • Raven01

      Women weren`t even “on the ship” in most cases.
      Besides do you really expect hysterical people to thrive in any disaster situation? Or to stare around like a pole-axed steer waiting for some man to make it all better?

    • http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

      Thanks, that’s not the article, but shows the same tack as the one I mentioned. It shows a similar misandrist bias when it starts speculating.

      This from the article:

      “The results are striking. Women had a lower chance of survival in 11 out of 18 instances. Only on two ships was it an advantage to be a woman: on the Birkenhead in 1852 and on the Titanic.”

      It sounds like some weak little women don’t fair very well, when left to fend using their own physical prowess and resourcefulness – contrary to feminist thought.

      If women are supposedly men’s equals in every way, why should women have been allowed, or be allowed, to go first? Let’s see:

      # Weaker sex

      – Not according to feminism

      # High value for reproduction/survival of the species.

      – 50,000,000 abortions in America alone, since Roe v. Wade would seem to negate that view, especially since it’s only the woman’s “choice” that is considered legal and important.

      # courtesy and chivalry dictate women go first.

      – Why? How about, “form an orderly line?” Imagine the confusion on board the “miracle on the Hudson” plane wreck as men moved into the aisles to let women with window seats get out first, then moved back into the seat area to let the women clear the aisles – not very orderly.

      From the article:

      “Finally, the results are bad news for notions of British chivalry: surprisingly, women fared worse on ships under British command, not better.”

      And why would that necessarily be “chivalrous men’s fault?”

      One thing that should be mentioned is the extreme aversion of some independent minded (I always know best) women to follow any man’s instructions or orders. There are certainly more than a few that come instantly to mind for me. When the life boats are being lowered and the ship is sinking it’s time to row to a safe distance to avoid being sucked down with the ship. How many female ship wreck fatalities failed to take orders, “choosing” instead to gather up money and other valuables until it was too late?

      Might there have been other factors of a feminine quality that lead to women’s higher mortality rate in the instances cited? Oh wait, the article’s apparently PC authors didn’t explore that for the apparent sake of not wanting to appear misogynistic. HOW QUAINTLY CHIVALROUS! :-) :-) :-)

    • dejour

      I’d like to look at the original study before changing my mind. eg. are the shipwrecks chosen truly representative? Did the men survive because they were better swimmers? Did most shipwrecks become “famous” because women died?

      Still, this calls into question the idea that women’s lives were given priority.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2128812/Women-children-Sadly-quite-chivalrous-real-life–twice-men-survive-sinking-ships.html

      • jatkoroikka

        Mm, it’s hard to compare 18 unrelated incidents (as someone remarked above). If you find the original study, I’d like to look at it as well.

        Thanks for the link.

    • Otter

      Two things:

      1. They don’t include any raw data, the type of ship involved or even more pertinent the amount of men and women on board. For instance, if one of those vessels had only one woman on board and she died, that would make for a 0% chance of survival for women on board that ship and would skew the average sharply.

      2. Guys, these are feminists we are talking about from Sweden no less. They have 50 years of lies to show for themselves and an enormous funding stream to protect. Jat, you would have to be ignorant to swallow a “statistic” like that hook line and sinker whilst smacking your lips from a group that has consistently falsely represented factoids and blatant lies to further their agenda without even asking to see the raw data and methods used. You have an agenda, buddy.

      • jatkoroikka

        Dejour linked the original study with all the raw data in the appendices. You’re free to take a look, the comment is right above yours.

        • Otter

          Danke. 80 pages will be an undertaking but well worth it. I swear what the feminist lack in intellect, logic, creativity, and moral fiber, they more than make up for in sheer volume of bullshit.

    • Grey Knight

      “Women and children first” is a line coined from the HMS Birkenhead. In fact, during a Birkenhead Drill, women and children are generally placed in front of the line. Even Rudyard Kipling describes the drill in his poems.

      That kind of data spewed forth from a feminist country should be compared in contrast with other data from anywhere else.

      I am not a seafarer myself nor am I well versed in the history of it but in the grand scheme of things, men are asked to sacrifice their very lives at the behest of women. Feminists claim that infantilising women would be considered an insult but they have no problem with white knights and chivalry as a whole when it comes to crisis — seafaring or not.

  • Dazza

    We are men and we matter.

    I know it must have meant really difficult choices to make in really difficult circumstances, but men and women are equal. All children should have survived and just as many men should have survived as women.
    I don’t know how that equality would have been achieved, but we are men and we matter.

    • The Real Peterman

      I agree, let all children off first. Adults have had time to make something of themselves and enjoy all that life has to offer. Children haven’t had those chances yet.

  • Tawil

    Does anybody know how many men vs women died in the recent sinking of the Costa Concordia? Last time I heard it was about 13 deaths in total, and the majority were male deaths (was it 2 female deaths?)…. I couldn’t find the info just now, someone would need to confirm.

    And based on the statistical average that 65% of all people who go on cruise ships are female I’m assuming the majority of passengers on the Concordia were female (?).

  • scatmaster

    “Votes for women!”

    Was the cry,

    Reaching upward to the Sky.

    Crashing glass

    And flashing eye-

    “Votes for Women!”

    Was the cry.

    “Boats for women!”

    Was the Cry.

    When the brave

    Were come to die.

    When the end

    Was drawing nigh-

    “Boats for women!”

    Was the cry.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

      Good man Scatters he knows tricks,

      He walks ’round with clams on sticks,

      He sees ships full of misandry,

      And writes a poem for all to see,

      He tells of violence on that night,

      Of good men drowning with no fight,

      With his write we know it’s true,

      There was no red just seas of blue.

      • scatmaster

        Sorry Dr F I should have put author unknown underneath or italicized it. Not my work. However your poem is outstanding

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

          Ah yes I see the author of it now.

          ENOUGH SAID
          by Clark McAdams

          St. Louis Dispatch [1912]

          Very interesting and I am all the more chuffed about it because it means that our intentions here go way back to the very same year of the disaster itself. In essence the misandry scam felt disagreeable rumblings way back then from a man with no MRA officialdom to his name.

          In 1912 Clark McAdams wrote this and his words do all the well with us right here a hundred years later.

          He did well to write this and you for telling us about it.

          • scatmaster

            Thank you for your kind words I should have investigated it more before posting. I am however going to use it on as many comment threads on MSM websites as I can tomorrow April 15th. I will just post the poem itself nothing more. I can hear the screeches already.

    • BeijaFlor

      Le mot juste, Scatmaster, vous dites le mot juste.

  • blueface

    Great article.

    The rewriting of history is a common occurrence. And, as Orwell foretold, the rewriting must be continuous to cover up the next lie in the tale.

    I loved the shit about the men craftily staying behind on the ship because they trusted the technology.

    Clearly, the technology of the big boat taking on water is superior to the technology of the intact lifeboat. WTF?????

    Personally, and in all seriousness, I cannot imagine the situation of the titanic in any rational way. People would have been scared shit-less and all kinds of irrationality would have ensued.

    The sanctimony that allows people to judge those who have been in those situations is fucked.

    In such a situation there is no sensible way to behave. I think the crew have some obligations, because they have the training and experience to deal with it better than the passengers.

    But, in the situation when there are more lifeboats than passengers, I don’t have an answer. However, pre-selecting one lot for death based on gender is fucked. Men have as much a right to survival as anyone else.

    • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

      “The sanctimony that allows people to judge those who have been in those situations is fucked.” Check.

      “However, pre-selecting one lot for death based on gender is fucked. Men have as much a right to survival as anyone else.” Check.

  • Merlin

    Good article, Phil…

    I’m glad you covered this one, being topical right now. I’ve covered this subject on YouTube more recently and simply spoken the truth. Unsurprisingly, feminist trolls false flag anything you have to say on the subject without opening an adult debate. Do you think this says something? I’d certainly say it does, without question.

    Needless to say, the channel owner corrected the false flagging. The truth hurts I guess…

  • .ProleScum.

    I wonder if it would be possible to determine the proportion of male Titanic casualties that did NOT have the vote.

    Presumably all of the male passengers in 1st class would have had the vote but, as estimates indicate that around 40% of adult British males could not vote at the time, a significant number of men in 2nd class and steerage would not have had the vote.

  • http://equalitythroughtruth.blogspot.com/ Jean Valjean

    Every time I hear a feminist/white knight complain about wymin/victims I like to say either:

    Man up or Take it like a man.

    Now we know why women were kept in the kitchen for the last 10,000 years. As soon as they left they began to declare themselves victims of everything in the world.

  • keyster

    James Cameron is a hopeless Leftist/Feminist. His movies wreak of “man bad/woman good” narratives. The “privilaged white male class” is ALWAYS the antagonist.

    I heard some conservative women lamenting about the days of “women and children first” now becoming the days of “every man for himself”.

    The turning point was the MS Estonia in 1994, which claimed 852 lives, ironically sinking off the coast of Sweden. The survivors of the shipwreck were mostly young, of strong physical composition, and male. Gender Equality was not only supported, but physically enforced.

    Of the 138 rescued 111 were men and only 26 women, even though the male/female ratio was 50/50.

    The big difference was between the Captian of the Titanic, who ordered and enforced at gun point women and children first, and the Captian of the MS Estonia who did not. This is a clear victory for Gender Equality Feminism!

    http://www.pubchoicesoc.org/papers_2012/Erixson_Elinder.pdf

    Every man for himself is the new…
    …Open your own damn door.

    • the hermit

      “James Cameron is a hopeless Leftist/Feminist. His movies wreak of “man bad/woman good” narratives.”

      Cameron is using the general Hollywood script. Business as usual… nothing special

    • Atlas Reloaded

      Sarah Connah!!

  • Don

    What have women done for me? I’ll tell ya… first my Mother abandons me when I was young and I was forced to live with my stepmother who everyday called me a piece of S**T!! My first wife walked off with my house and money and told lies to everyone I knew. Then my second wife took my kids, my home, 65% of my pay and doesn’t let me see them.

    When I go to bars the girls screem at me “What the hell are you looking at”? They let doors close in my face when I go shopping. They control the conversation at work and I’m always wrong and their always right! They don’t give me the time of day when I go to the family courts. Almost all of them will tell you that most men don’t pay their child support even when you show them proof that it isn’t true. A lot of them are just plain F*****G nasty!!! I hear them in the elevator complaining about their husbands while they carry bags and bags of cloths and shoes for themselves. They flip me the finger when I wave to them. You know what I say? I’m done with them all!!! FTSU!!! Ignorant people can be educated, stupid people are stupid for life. Down with all the blue pill takers….

  • Patrick Henry

    Check out the man space this guy has created. Wow!

    http://vimeo.com/39346092

  • Otter

    “Female privilege even trumped the needs of children. The fifty percent survival ratio for children is scandalous compared to the seventy-five percent fraction for adult women.”

    Those selfish lying cunts.

    “For example, women have outnumbered men on college campuses for so long that, The New York Times feels justified in publishing articles portraying men as advantaged because of their superior dating environment.”

    Those selfish lying cunts.

    I swear if ever put into that situation I’m saving the children and telling the women to go fuck themselves.

    • Steve_85

      How do you save a Feminist from drowning?

      Take your foot off the back of his/her head.

    • chrixthegreat

      It is likely that the children of the RMS Titanic were a 50/50 male/female split. I am willing to bet that the 50% of the children that got off were all female. If that is the case, then that would be even more disturbing then just 50% random children.

    • Sting Chameleon

      Careful there bro, lest you be labeled a pedophile for ensuring the welfare of children over women! Fucking cunts, the lot of them.

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/MRAGreatestHits MRA-GH

      Women consistantly use children as their shield or their meal ticket. They’ll tell you that’s why they’re on the life boat but when comes down to one or the other, the kids will get thrown overboard right after the men, as seen in these stats. The only thing that gets a woman more sympathy and benefits than loosing her husband is loosing her child. Women are the primary victims of war remember.

    • JinnBottle

      “Those selfish, lying cunts” on the New York Times.

      And the women are even worse!

  • scatmaster

    I swear if ever put into that situation I’m saving the children and telling the women to go fuck themselves.

    hear hear

  • Rad

    “As the preceding table documents…”

    But the table comes after those words, not before.

  • Truyardy

    Whoa! The survival percentage of the women was even higher than that of the children.

  • Zorro

    Titanic, one of the most popular films ever, summarized:

    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Lowly male character established.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Privileged female lead, established.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Supporting characters, established.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Turning point #1; Act 2 goal established.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Complication for male lead.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Male & female leads meet; clash.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Male & female leads reconcile.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Tits.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Ice.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Panic.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    Boat propeller.
    Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
    End credits.

    • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

      That was super brilliant.

      I might just throw in one or two more there near the end.

      Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
      Token male sacrificed.
      Ship exterior, rising crane shot, panning right.
      Lead male sacrificed.

      • Zorro

        Yeah. Pretty much.

  • Atlas Reloaded

    Well I know I had a great dream last night:

    See, I was at this awesome nightclub owned by Paul and co-owned by Perseus (so I got in for free). And so I come in there with a big group of guys. Finally I spot this one hot babe and start talking to her. She tells me that she DOES NOT WANT TO TALK TO ME! CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?? HOW DARE SHE!

    So, I say to her “Why don’t you fuck off??” Know what she does? She has the nerve to say it right BACK TO ME!! “No, you!” Well she had to be punished so I slapped her acorss the face. Then the unbelievable happens!! SHE SLAPS ME BACK! I WAS FLABBERGASTED! But only for a moment because suddenly GWW, Typhonblue, Izzey, Dr T a few other women rushe her to the ground, beat the shit out of her , repeating over and over “How can YOU slap him? How CAN you slap him??”

    Ah fairness and justice.

    • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

      You dream in piercing satire, Atlas. A sign of keen wit and a sharp mind.

      Free indeed. I believe you have a table permanently on reserve.

      • Atlas Reloaded

        Thank you brother I humbly accept, as my Spartanic shield remains locked unto yours in glorious battle.

        • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

          : /

          They will be no match for our pycne phalanx.

          Looking forward to the new gravitar you cook up. May I suggest?

          • Kimski

            Excellent suggestion. :)

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

            @ Kimski,

            Uh oh, You’ve got your mean face on and quite frankly with a mug like that you’d get a lifeboat all to yourself.

          • Atlas Reloaded

            My name is Atlas Reloaded and I approve this icon! I love it! I thank you! And…it is not showing up on my profile. Having trouble, would like to know what I am doing wrong please.

          • Kimski

            @Dr.F:

            Why so serious. ;)

            I’ll share my lifeboat anytime with my fellow MRA’s. No need to worry if you’re not a feminist. Those will be eaten after drifting the open sea for a couple of days.
            Mmm..Tasty..!

            @Atlas:

            Mine does that too sometimes.
            Just keep trying.

  • scatmaster

    http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/04/14/maritime-disasters-bring-out-the-worst-in-men-study

    Have at it people.
    Disqus related account required.

    google, facebook, yahoo, etc.

    • Atlas Reloaded

      Read it. Made me sick.

      Glad it cleared things up proper though:

      If men don’t perform the self-sacrificing chivalry expected of them, just threaten to kill ‘em. That’ll whip ‘em into line.

    • Steve_85

      Pretty much par for the course from what I’ve seen lately.

      • scatmaster

        Agree: But I was kind of hoping others would jump in on the comment thread on this website. As you can see there is some shaming language going on.

        As I have stated my intellect is far below most on AVFM.
        We need to hit MSM comment boards and here is one for the taking. My debating skills are lax and I would let my fellow MRA’s down trying to engage.

  • http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

    “Male” and “Privilege” are antonyms. From the moment they pop into this world with a tiny penis and and gasp their first breath of air, men are set on a destiny of fighting for their preservation and fulfillment of their biological mandate. The exact opposite is true of females.

    The first and most fundamental thing one needs to learn about the feminist zeitgeist is that the truth is precisely opposite to everything they say. Language is not second to sexual in their tools of manipulation. Be as suspicious and contemptuous of every syllable uttered as you are of her appearance. It is all lies, all deceit. Layers and onion-like layers of lies upon lies. The corrupt dialectic.

    Please share your understanding of male privilege here.

    • Steve_85

      How can you tell a feminist is telling you untruths?

      Their lips are moving.

    • Atlas Reloaded

      This article just further proves the fucking point!

  • valdez_addiction

    God I hated this movie even when I wasn’t an MRA.

    The biggest problem with movies like this, which are based on actual events, is the fact that Hollywood always feels the need to fabricate some bullshit story, which almost always devalues men.

    Unfortunately this type of glorification of women is running rampant on every television show and movie theater.

    If it’s not the woman surviving some God awful disaster, there’s always some guy who makes it to safety and has to go back into the [insert dangerous situation] to risk life and limb to rescue some chick.

    The scene with Dicaprio in the water beside her on the plank of wood makes me wanna throw up. He just happens to last long enough to die right before the boat comes.

    Even as a fictitious version of the story, it’s bullshit.

    • Atlas Reloaded

      You make a point that is hard to argue; most historical/period peice films based on historical fact that are smeared with bullshit always end up making men look bad and devalue their existence.

      I guess all healthy film makers know; most of the world’s problems are caused by men. In technicolor too!

  • Bombay

    The women first meme reminds me of who gets off the elevator first. Like on ships, women tend to get deference. I stayed at a hotel all last week and rode the elevator quite often. Yes, those women were doing their women first thing. I found that it was more interesting to watch them than to attempt to get off before them. And every time I thought – what a bitch. I wonder how many other people in the elevator thought that and if those women had a clue (NOT).

    If ever you want to see how privileged someone thinks they are, yield to them. Many men will yield back, not women.

  • BeijaFlor

    … And I spent the 100th anniversary, not protesting at the Titanic Memorial (that was called off), but working on my own boat. A small, sturdy boat that would simply bounce off an iceberg like that which pierced into the vitals of the Titanic.

    In other news – Matt Rutherford, a solo sailor in a 27-foot Albin Vega sailboat, is about a week from completing his year-long, non-stop, solo circumnavigation of the Americas – a 23,000 mile odyssey.

    He sailed solo through the Northwest Passage last summer … sailed down the West Coast of the Americas … and rounded Cape Horn in its summer. Next Saturday (April 21), he expects to bring his boat, Saint Brendan, to City Dock in Annapolis for a well-earned hero’s welcome!

    I would like to nominate Matt for “MGTOW Of The Year.” A man alone can do miracles, as he shows us with his achievement!

    (Oh – and just for the sake of “equivalent honor for equivalent achievement” – I would like to nominate Laura Dekker for “WGTOW Of The Year”. She’s the Dutch girl who sailed around the world solo, ending her circumnavigation 123 days after her 16th birthday. She completed her voyage DESPITE the interference of the courts of the Netherlands! Flame as you will; she’s a hero in my book.)

  • JinnBottle

    Just hadda upvote *that* one, Jean.

    OT: Hey I just now got where you got your name. Just yesterday I recalled the name, when I was looking over a French copy of Les Miserables. (Have translated Verne’s Maitre du Monde recently and was looking for a new public domain Fr novel to translate…Not in the same ballpark as my first attempt tho, eh?…Think I’d better stick with Verne’s “Robur le conquorant”, or maybe Charles Perrault’s Fairy Tales… : / )

    Anyway, re Les Mis – I was like, “now where have I heard that name before…??”

  • Paul Elam

    @akaskills

    “Then talk about modern times. Talk about Concordia and Flight 1549. Don’t cite to the Titanic, because in this case, the Titanic is the anecdote, not the demonstrable rule.”

    Male disposability is the demonstrable rule. And you are telling me not to talk about examples of it?

    Sorry, but I don’t debate with crazy or stupid.

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/MRAGreatestHits MRA-GH

    • Bombay

      I want to hear of an example of people announcing men first during an evacuation. Without that, quibbling about how not all evacuations announce women first is just that. It reminds me that “All women are not like that” – In this case it is “all evacuations are not women first”. LOL. It seems that these people need a lesson in logic/debate as well.

      • Eilís

        Do you know when the phrase ‘women and children first’ is first documented to have appeared? 1860. In a romance novel. That’s 154 years ago. And do you know when the concept is first known to have been put into practice? 1852 on the HMS Birkenhead. That’s 162 years ago. Seven years (excluding the start and end date) before the phrase appeared. It’s never been a part of maritime law. And it isn’t and never has been representative of most shipwrecks. And guess which gender it was that originally constructed and idealised the concept of chivalry? Men.

  • Tim Legere

    Barbara Kay on the Titanic …

    “If the men could have taken seats in lifeboats without being shot or shamed for the rest of their days, they would have”.

    The above was the “price” for male survival on the Titanic in 1912. Bruce Ismay paid it, but the cost was social ostracism.

    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/04/10/barbara-kay-on-the-titanic-and-womens-suffrage-its-about-votes-and-boats/

  • Roderick1268

    I love film particularly science fiction, but I think James Cameron is a misanderous jerk.
    The men in his films tend to be dishonorable, thick and selfish arseholes. All his woman tend to be the heroic powerful competent morality superior hero’s.
    The only men who are any good, assist, rescue and admire the female hero.
    The real nasty fuckers are all men.
    The special effects may be top notch, but the political angle and misandry is well past its sellbuydate.
    His movie examples I can think of are: Ripley from Aliens, – the all powerful useless horrible bitch from Abyss, and the third world female superiority, and male immortality and basic inferiority of Avatar. Feminism taking over science fiction too, Crap!
    It is hidden feminist propaganda in popular culture.
    The man is traitorous and immoral like the men he portrays, he judges every man by his merits.
    Rod.

  • Skeptic

    Jade ice waters surged nearby,
    as hatred perspired in her eye.
    The captain called amidst the swell,
    of voices rising as death’s knell.
    A seagull was seen on clouded loft,
    as her anger and anguish harshly scoffed –
    “You are a man sir, stand aside,
    as husband kneels before his bride…….
    and take your turn to swim seas wild,
    for ’tis the best interests of the child”
    This moment held in frozen guilt,
    with eye locked fast as fresh blood spilt.

    But man rose equal to the task,
    screamed as four winds – but not to ask.
    “You, vain siren do not see me,
    nor any other men that be.
    We are not your chattels to expend.
    We will endure. We will not end.
    And thus he launched upon the boat,
    in whose frame his life would float.
    And then the storm dispersed and faint,
    left only memory in it’s taint.
    As a million times and still once more,
    He heard the mighty ocean’s roar.

    Dedicated to the men of RMS Titanic.