Let’s belittle men

On 21 May 2012, the online magazine New Statesman ran an article announcing their intention to run a series in the following week on the modern state of men. As the men’s rights movement commands a growing segment of public attention, such features will become increasingly common. Unfortunately, in the series posted on the New Statesman, beginning with the chatty-titled “Let’s talk about men” Helen Lewis-Hasteley starts with a tired and predictable insult.

Lurking in the cellar of the internet are a group called the MRAs


This clumsy metaphor is  Lewis-Hasteley’s attempt to appeal to one of the standard ad-hominem arguments levelled against activists pointing out the growing legal disenfranchisement and public censure of male identity. When faced by arguments based on evidence or logical challenges to standard anti male zeitgeist, attacks of character are the expected standard, purposefully changing the topic, and attempting to shame and silence through ad-hominem argument. This is so common that within the growing men’s movement, a Shaming Tactics Catalog has been authored and circulated for reference in quickly swatting aside such logical fallacies. Lewis-Hasteley’s basement-dweller reference is of course, a variation of the circumstantial ad hominem listed in the catalog.

The target is accused of being immature and/or irresponsible in some manner that reflects badly on his status as an adult male. Examples:

• “Grow up!”

• “You are so immature!”

“Do you live with your mother?”

• “I’m not interested in boys. I’m interested in real men.”

The New Statesman blogger next casts former London School of Economics gender studies student Tom Martin as a typical MRA.  In 2011, Martin launched a suit against that school on the grounds of anti-male bias in the curriculum. According to a hit-piece against Mr. Martin published in the Guardian[1]

[C]ourse material he studied during his six weeks at the LSE was systematically anti-male overlooked men’s issues, and ignored any research that contested a “women good, men bad” line of reasoning.


Of course, according to  Lewis-Hasteley, the LSE student was suing over the hardness of the seating.

From Lewis-Hasteley ‘s New Statesman article: “The man who recently tried to sue the LSE in case which partly rested on the hardness of its chairs.”

Let’s talk about men, indeed. However, Lewis-Hasteley gives herself an out in her yellow pixel’d introduction by adding “but it would be a mistake to dismiss all of their concerns.”

The New Statesman blogger briefly mentions the loss of a “family wage,” but characterizes the attendant economic marginalization of men as perpetual adolescence. It is the same language used by “conservative” women’s organizations like the Concerned Women of America (CWoA), which exhorts men to stop going their own way, and get back on the treadmill of working themselves into early graves for the benefit of wives and corporations. The CWoA is also one of the organizations recently tarred by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate organization – along with this website. Whoopsee, better be careful whose rhetoric you borrow, Helen.

Lewis-Hasteley also notes the preponderance of men in low pay, high risk jobs – which women and feminists seem uninterested in, despite feminism’s half century of campaigning to equalize outcomes at the high-pay high-safety end of the employment spectrum. L.H. Also notes the cultural acceptance of male targeting violence, something else not yet addressed by feminism’s campaign for, ahem, equality.

The recent drugging and sexual dismemberment of her husband by California woman Katherine Becker, because he wanted a divorce – provided fodder for the hysterical laughter of the hosts and live studio audience of a CBS women’s day-time talk show. Clearly, the vicious sexual mutilation of a human being is pure slapstick comedy, provided the victim is male.

Lewis-Hasteley notes however, “None of this is to say that feminism has failed, or has gone too far.”

Indeed, feminism has succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest expectations. The movement whose early second wave was funded by bankers and statesmen has driven a wedge of hatred into the heart of society, pitting men and women against each other, destroying the social cohesion of the family, leaving many women to lives of dependence on the state.

L..H.  says “to admit that there are problems specific to men as a gender is not to deny that women suffer too.”

Indeed, some reactionary, and fringe elements of the blogging community occasionally cast the human rights concerns of men and women as a zero sum game.

In the funding of domestic violence shelters, almost all resources are provided exclusively to women, despite the fact that 35% of domestic violence victims are men. Women’s shelter industry advocates claim that consideration of male victims would detract from the necessary assistance offered to women. Male victims, in this ideology either do not matter, do not exist, or these female-favouring DV advocates see human rights as a zero sum equation.

That domestic violence is not sexually specific or sexually directional is shown in hundreds of studies of the issue, and this is widely known by professionals working in the grievance industry. However, provision of support for men is repeatedly framed as withdrawal of support for women.

According to reporting in the Guardian’s online edition: “Nicola Harwin, chief executive of Women’s Aid, said its branches were still allowed to exclude men from refuges, but were being told when council contracts came up for tender that they must provide services such as advice and outreach to men or lose their funding. [she said] decades of progress in setting up refuges were being undermined.”

L.H admits that acknowledging men’s problems does not exclude the issues face by women. However, she declares that those who brought that discussion into the public sphere – namely, Men’s Rights Activists, cannot be allowed to discuss their own issues without the  input of adherents to the mainstream they struggle to be heard by.

 And talking about them [men’s issues] can’t be left to the MRAs.


After all, if men are not supervised by their betters, they might all poop their pants, collect together in caves to form rape clubs, or set themselves on fire, the poor darlings.

Of course – who best to discuss men’s issues than two female bloggers on the left leaning New Statesman calling themselves by the collective moniker “The Vagenda.”  They are the concatenation of the words vagina and agenda, apparently without any outward hint of parody. These two feminists are claiming to hold authority over what issues are, or should be relevant to men – or indeed be discussed by them. This is comedy that writes itself.

Rhiannon and Holly, following the lead from the loose and hasty introduction by Lewis-Hasteley, posted their contribution in the Statesman’s “Talking about Men” series by talking about women. The article, incongruously called “Men’s Rights Zeitgeist” opens with the declaration: “It’s been one hell of a week for women,” then catalogs several items of female celebrity gossip. Checking that title again, yes, it’s called: The Men’s Rights Zeitgeist, and subtitled “Don’t buy into this pretend battle of the sexes.” The article’s accompanying photo is of a pick-up artist named Neil Strauss. This is presumably included in the erstwhile men’s rights article to legitimize the continued efforts to conflate human rights activists with pick up artists.  When the Vagenda bloggers finally do manage to address areas of concern to men, it’s in a sneering reference to David Benetar’s book “The Second Sexism”.

In spite of the heavily layered snark, Vagenda-twin powers activated, Rhiannon and Holly managed to admit to bias in the family courts, and the primarily male rise of national unemployment.

However, female favoring sentencing bias in the criminal courts is skipped over as two-girls-one-keyboard deify gender ideologue Suzanne Moore. Moore’s rubbishing of Benetar’s book includes the telling paragraph: “Still, abundant tripe trickles down from on high, even academe. Every so often a new tome details how men, not women, are discriminated against (apart from rape, murder, equal pay, genital mutilation, the power imbalance in politics, business, education, law and arts they may have a point).”

Apart from rape – which when men are the victims is treated as comedy, and which according to the Daily Kos[2] the CDC’s recent report impacts men outside of prison far more than anyone outside the MRM ever contemplated.

  • 4.8% of American men claim they have been forced to penetrate someone else. That’s more than three times the number who have actually been raped according to the FBI’s “penetration” definition of rape.
  • The 1 in 5 number for female victims in the CDC report also uses a definition of rape which conflates sexual harassment with sexual assault and rape, revealing a strong ideological bias.
  • While the CDC survey counts 1.3 million rapes of women in 2010, the total number of rapes and sexual assaults (of males and females combined) in the Justice Department survey was 188,380”. These two numbers are an entire order of magnitude apart.

However, even in mainstream reporting which mentions male targeting sexual violence, the claim of under-reporting of female victimization is repeatedly trotted out to impute a higher rate for women, while the same argument is not made for male victims.

In addition, sexual violence in war, used against men to demoralize and break the will of occupied civilian populations[3][4][5][6][7][8] is purposefully suppressed in reporting by UN affiliated relief organizations, while female targeting wartime rape is played up.

Prison rape, due to the overwhelmingly male prison populations in western nations, also targets predominantly men and results in roughly twice as many men raped in prison each year than women raped outside of America’s prisons[9][10]. After decades of public activism by prisoner’s rights advocates, this was finally addressed this month by the Obama administration’s new guidelines aimed at reducing prison rape. Oddly, the guidelines[11] include a prohibition of male prison employees to perform searches of female prisoners, but no rule addresses the reverse case. “male guards are now banned from patting down female inmates, female guards can still have free reign over male inmates”[12]

To re-iterate what the deified Suzanne Moore noted:

Every so often a new tome details how men, not women, are discriminated against (apart from rape, murder, equal pay, genital mutilation, the power imbalance in politics, business, education, law and arts they may have a point).

Murder,  according to the USDoJ criminal victimization survey, impacts men 3 times more than women. According to the abstract of a University of Tennessee study[13]: “A total of 215,273 homicides were studied, 77% of which involved male victims and 23% female victims.”

In fact, men are overwhelmingly the majority of the victims of violent crime, at all ages, and for all types of violent crime according to the collected statistics of the DoJ[14]. “The victimization rate for males (11.6 per 100,000) was 3 times higher than the rate for females (3.4 per 100,000)”.

Moore also lays a claim to Equal Pay as an area in which men face no problem, referring by inference to the pay gap myth. This is the re-framing of male favouring lifetimes earnings imbalance into the narrative of male favouring sexism. This myth[15][16] ignores the longer hours worked by men on average, the higher risk and career choices of income over life-style, access to family and flexibility of work favoured on average by women. The narrative of “pay gap” also ignores that women control the disposal of 80% of discretionary spending.[17]

Genital mutilation is Moore’s next point, somehow failing to register that throughout the western world  female genital mutilation is banned as an archaic, brutal crime, while infant male genital mutilation is still common, and promoted – falsely – as a preventative measure against the transmission of HIV by western outreach programs in continental Africa.

Moore also itemizes power imbalance in politics, but neglects to note that women are the majority of registered and active voters. Is she simply hoping nobody will fact-check her laundry list of lies?

The Vagenda article also mentions the revised version of the Violence Against Women Act, making a factually false claim that the National Coalition for Men (NCFM’s) support is based on recognizing that men are also victims of domestic violence. However, in a and b’s characterization, the NCFM is “claiming it will give the “true victims” of abuse the long sought for protection they need.”

Placement of “the” in front of the phrase “true victims” serves to foster an impression that the NCFM, or the Republican party’s version of VAWA claims that men are exclusively the victims of DV, which is not an honest mischaracterization by new statesman contributors Rhiannon and Holly. The un-attributed National Coalition for Men document supporting the reformed VAWA uses the following language:

We cannot adequately address violence related issues by excluding half the population, allowing precious resources to be squandered for ideological purposes, empowering false accusers at the expense of true victims, and letting malfeasance and maladministration run unchecked without holding applicable program administrators accountable.[18]

The R and H writing duo also take shots at AVfM with the lazy, ignorant, and much recycled argument that the site is anti-female.  After an obligatory small-penis shot taken at broadcaster Tony Parsons, the twins state:

…but that’s the minor end of the spectrum when you consider the anti-woman agenda peddled by websites such as “A Voice for Men.”


In fact, the site’s editorial position opposes the ideology of feminism, which is not the same as women. Women are a group of people, several of whom regularly contribute article content at AVfM, whereas feminism is an ideology, whose proponents are also of both sexes. Rhiannon and Holly are both encouraged to refer back to this paragraph any time they become confused about which is which, or about how they are not the same.

Our dynamic duo also manage to get it wrong when mentioning the online registry Register Her. According to the pair, the register-her project:

…purports to be an alternative to the male-dominated sex offenders’ register, in which they publicly name and shame women who have cried rape.

This description by the Vagenda duo is misleading, whether purposefully or not.

The project’s purpose is clearly stated on the entry page of the site, as well as on the submission guidelines page. Namely, to draw public attention to the rising problem of false accusation without consequence and the damage this does to communities and public confidence in the courts.

The need for was born out of the unfortunate social and legal custom of failing to punish female criminals and to safeguard society from their continued criminality.[19]


From the submission guidelines page of the site: is a registry of individuals that have caused significant harm to innocent individuals either by the direct action of crimes like rape, assault, child molestation and murder, or by the false accusation of crimes against others for personal gain in one form or another.

It is not the intent of this registry to emulate those who commit false allegations, therefore this policy is written to provide guidelines for the approval of submissions designed to ensure the authenticity of the information provided.

Only those submissions that can be corroborated by either a link(s) to a recognized news affiliate and/or digital copies of court records, with correct contact information for that court, or other compelling, substantiated documentation, will be accepted as proof.

Rhiannon and Holly dismiss the action of individuals who willfully made false accusations of rape, confirmed by reporting in reputable news media with the flippant appellation of “cried rape.”

What the writing partners do get right, almost, is the inclusion of bigots in the registry. However, rather than “high profile feminists” as claimed by Doublefem, the Bigot category on that site  “is used to designate individuals whose active ideology is one that results in socially inflicted harm on men and/or boys in the general population”.

Inclusion of “high profile feminists” as is claimed by our heroines would indicate a category for “feminists” which that site does not use, and would obviate articles on AVfM such as  “Why isn’t Betty Friedan on Register-Her?”

However, rather than their public recognition as “high profile feminists” as is claimed, individuals such as Jessica Valenti and Amanda Marcotte earned their way into the registry by their public agitation in the erosion of the legal rights of men and boys.

Valenti merited inclusion principally for the public advocacy of the overturning of the burden of evidence in criminal accusations of rape and sexual assault. According to her authorship of a 2010 washington post article:

…we should look to [Sweden] as a potential model for our own legislation. In fact, some activists and legal experts in Sweden want to change the law there so that the burden of proof is on the accused; the alleged rapist would have to show that he got consent, instead of the victim having to prove that she didn’t give it.

This re-invention of jurisprudence, which would effectively turn western law upside down, has, since been implemented in American universities though the Obama administration, although not yet in the criminal courts proper.

Valenti advocates a system of totalitarian law, for one sex, creating a tiered society along lines of a sexual apartheid.

Amanda Marcotte, also listed in the category of Bigot, earned her spot in the registry by an established pattern in her writing of exploiting the personal tragedies of men, either when they have died or have been brutalized by demonstratively false criminal accusations. Typically she will re-characterize events to portray men killed or destroyed as aggressors and oppressors, and then characterize tragic outcomes in their lives as if they are events victimizing women.

Said Marcotte of the now infamous Duke Rape scandal:

I’ve been sort of casually listening to CNN blaring throughout the waiting area and good fucking god is that channel pure evil. For awhile, I had to listen to how the poor dear lacrosse players at Duke are being persecuted just because they held someone down and fucked her against her will—not rape, of course, because the charges have been thrown out. Can’t a few white boys sexually assault a black woman anymore without people getting all wound up about it? So unfair.

Marcotte has also done her share to emulate Valenti’s ideas on the evisceration of presumed innocence and due process for men.

Journalist Cathy Young described Marcotte as a leader of a “cyber-lynch mob,” writing:

…in Marcotte’s eyes, the real crime of the independent feminists is helping preserve the idea that the presumption of innocence applies even in cases of rape and sexual assault.”[6] The post attracted so much commentary, including from The New York Times, that Marcotte ended up deleting it.

Marcotte is as racist as she is sexist. Her mentality is one that serves to de-humanize male victims, and re-enforce the mainstream narrative that all men are evil, particularly White men, and that all women are their victims. In short, she is a Bigot.

The Vagenda also identifies this site, the parent site of Register-her as the “English Defence League of the men’s rights movement.”  That is accurate enough, except for AVfM not being a right wing site, or left wing, nor racist, nor tolerant of violence in either action or in rhetoric, nor sexist, nor homophobic, nor associated with a single political party, nor attached to one country and also not exclusionary of anyone by religion, ethnicity, political leaning, sex, sexual orientation or other characteristic of identity. Aside from that, yes, this site is exactly like the EDL.

The New Statesman’s week long campaign addressing men’s experience and the rising Men’s Rights Movement appears to be, rather than informative or investigative, a torrent of snark and condescension driven by the fear of lost privilege.

It may be that the volume of insinuation, pejorative and mockery is intended to by its volume to thwart any serious attempt at scrutiny.

However, in spite of poor intentions, the writers contributing to public scorn of men and boys and the derision of male pain must still be thanked. Readers of high traffic sites such as New Statesman are now exposed to the issues of concern of the MRM. Those readers, a few at a time, become readers of this site and others like it. Some few even become contributors, having much to say. They just didn’t know they had a place to say it with a significant audience till they found us, and discovered that we validated their struggles.

The Statesman Sisters are now our publicists.

For writers opposed to the Men’s Rights Movement, in spite of an adversarial editorial stance, several guides on this site have been posted to foster stronger opposition to the MRM. The easily debunked rhetoric prominent in this week’s NS series could have been much stronger, and it is the purpose of oppositional guides on this site to promote a more factually and logically rigorous opposition.

“Thank you feminists and ideologues” is available on the site from John the Other, and offered in a spirit of assistance, as is the similar guide from Paul Elam “An Offer of Help to Feminists.”

We look forward to working with all of you in promoting the “So Called Men’s Rights Movement” into the center stage of mainstream discourse on human rights.



In the torrent of snark, characterization and falsehood recently posted at the New Statesman, one point of apparent sarcastic amusement fixed on by the writers at the New Statesman as well as depraved and futile bloggers elsewhere is recommended self-preservation located on AVfM’s “don’t get fucked” page. The point of that derision being that self preservation denotes paranoia, folly, and apparently; ninjitsu.

Anyone clinging to such view is invited to view the following linked video. A Canadian cab driver was saved from the frivolous false accusation of a girl whose motivation to accuse him was to evade a $ 13 dollar cab fare. Any individual who advises men to not protect themselves in climate of such easy destruction is amoral, depraved and futile.





















About Paul Elam and John the Other

Paul Elam and John the Other are Paul Elam and John the Other and have no intention at this time of becoming anyone else.

This contention is subject to revision. .

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  • bulldogo67

    The tide is slowly turning!
    More & more I see in the comments sections of the MSM an incling of the truth.
    Everyday people are sick of the spin. And they can see right through it.
    This BS is trotted out daily by MSM but people, with the aid of the internet see what’s happening.
    Men’s recognition is just round the corner.

    • Steve_85

      If only it were so.

      Nothing short of enforced marriage 1.0 is going to fix this. And by enforced I mean enforced on women. Get pregnant to a man? Congratulations, you’re having a shotgun marriage and I hope you can cook.

      Until that happens this is all just so much pissing in the wind, and it will continue to worsen until whats left of our societies collapse.

      A marriage strike is the logical outcome of a feminist continuance. It will take exactly one generation of men refusing to breed and our race is done. We’ve screwed it up in as little as 2 generations… I doubt we have even that long to fix it.

    • bcdad666

      Indeed, if only it were so.

      “The fourth wave of feminism is upon us… the new wave of feminism involves institutional changes. Institutions such as the government, the family, sexuality, the media and education need to implement change.”

      “Fourth Wave feminism is about wielding the principal’s paddle—state power… ”


    Great article.

    For the uninitiated, an explanation why Marcotte’s take on the Duke false rape case is a total lie:

    It is amazing that such an article does not hit home and make some open-minded people think about anti male legislation and bias.

    I was shocked to see

    that even proving that feminist senators “underpay” women and discriminate is not enough to make them think straight.

    They list all the same reasons Warren Farrell lists why women earn less. To explain why the senators pay less to women. And still continue to sponsor the (un)fair pay act. They can not make the connection that the reason other employers pay less are exactly the same as the senator’s reasons. And thus we need an equal pay act like a fish needs a bicycle.

    I posted a link to reddit twoxchromosomes, asking why feminist liberal female senators discriminate against women. They did not get the irony.

    Humans are closed minded. Once they have an ideology, no amount of evidence gets them away from their ideology. Proof gets distorted, denied, censored, misinterpreted. Or the messenger gets threatened.

    I always was wondering if Obama, Clinton, and senators can not read and follow simple logic in an article like the above, or in Warren Farrells books and speeches. Amazingly, they can’t. Or intentionally choose not to do so.


    Human-Stupidity is intrigued with the fact: why can’t highly intelligent people see the evident truth in clearly written articles and obvious research.

    It started with the pope and Galileo Galilee, and continues to Clinton, Obama, and Senators regarding domestic violence, VAWA, and pay gap.

    Highly intelligent people totally blinded by religion and ideology. Amazing. This is the topic and interest of and this is why we have such a mess of different topics from men’s rights to drug war.

    There probably is no way to easily open up the human mind to reason, science, and argument. Once ideology has closed it down.

  • Dr. F

    By Jingo these shifty buggers must be wondering what the hell to do next.

    They slight us as women haters and all the rest of it and all the while direct a stream of new onlookers here.

    Keep it up you disgraceful monkeys, the key up your bums are slowly rotating and your wee cymbals are clacking.

    • DruidV

      Cymbal monkey’s gotta clang, clang, clang!!!

      “After all, if men are not supervised by their betters, they might all poop their pants, collect together in caves to form rape clubs, or set themselves on fire, the poor darlings.”

      Dr. Paul, JTO, you know that kind of cheeky sass really pisses mommy off, right?

      LOL, you guys are AWESOME!!!

      This type of arrogant, condescending attitude is now what is mistaken for gray matter inside the prettly widdle heads of every empowered womyn out there today.

      No mommy dearest, we are all done with your mind-rape.

      Our turn…

      FTSU is here and it’s here to stay, baby!!!

      Maybe these fembots should themselves start perusing some real estate in their own mothers’ basements. These will very likely be they only spaces they will have left from which to spew, or where they will even be taken half-way seriously and then, only by their mothers. When at long last, their unbridled hatred for all things Men is finally revealed to all the world and their bigoted ideology is finally destroyed, momma’s basement may in fact begin to look really good to them…


      • Bombay

        “Maybe these fembots should themselves start perusing some real estate in their own mothers’ basements. These will very likely be they only spaces they will have left from which to spew, or where they will even be taken half-way seriously and then, only by their mothers. When at long last, their unbridled hatred for all things Men is finally revealed to all the world and their bigoted ideology is finally destroyed, momma’s basement may in fact begin to look really good to them…”

        What is many times overlooked is that when a woman-child lives with a man – it is the female equivalent of living in MaMa’s basement. She is being taken care of, perhaps more than a guy living with his parents.

        • DruidV

          Excellent point!

          I shall reconsider and have yet another chuckle.

    • Raven01

      Their inclusion at the New Statesmen might do that.
      Lord knows their own blog/e-zine won’t.
      The Vagenda looks to have been put together by a pair of girls in the 7th or 8th grade at best. Their “journalism” really is that bad.
      They also tend to deal with such weighty “issues” as to whether one should “vajazzle” or not(and yes that really is a thing).
      I look forward to their followers having complete meltdowns upon exposure to the light and, a few new followers here that just wanted to see what the fuss was about for themselves.


    Mainstream media is going the way of the do-do.

  • Rad

    “After all, if men are not supervised by their betters, they might all poop their pants, collect together in caves to form rape clubs, or set themselves on fire, the poor darlings.”.

    Perhaps this was a deliberate shout-out to the SFU men’s center article from last week. If not, it made me think of it.

    The attitude by campus feminists a SFU was one of “Yeah, maybe men can have a center, so long as it is guided by our ideology.”, and these “series of articles” at the New Stateman feature the exact same authoritarian attitude.

    This attitude that is being invoked as SFU and The New Statesmen is just more of the same kind of evasion of past decades, albeit (and inevitably) more frantic.

    It is the same culturally as it is with an individual’s psychology. Evasions only can hold you out for so long. Eventually reality intervenes. But before the intervention comes a period of chronic anxiety. We can now see this anxiety manifesting itself when feminists have to acknowledge men’s issues, whilst still attempting frame the debate on their terms.

    It is not working and it can’t work. And I am really grateful John and Paul are here to pile on the pressure as the whole ideology collapses under the weight of its lies.

  • Kimski

    “but it would be a mistake to dismiss all of their concerns.”

    Oh, no, please continue doing what you have done for the past 50 years, and the end of your ideology will come that much faster. You are doing an excellent job of enlisting more and more people to the MRA/MRM, with every new half witted and poorly researched article you hateful bigots bring.

    Even the most feministic bloggers in my country are starting to backpedal now, when they are presented with the outcome: The american feminists version of equality. That includes the landslides of angry emails from women and men alike, whenever they attempt to get away with this sort of radical bigotry.

    Enjoy it while it lasts, fembots, your time is short.

    Edit: BTW, throw Lewis-Hasteley and the Toxic Twins into in the bigot category, as an act of pity. They’ve deserved it with this, and I’m sure they did their best.

    • andybob

      “..I’m sure they did their best.” Mr Kimski

      LOL. They can’t even out-snark us.

      I’m sure you’re right. That article probably was their best, and they were probably proud of it too.

      Ending up on the very site they sneered at (RegisterHer) is justice at its most elegaic. Beautiful.

      • Paul Elam


  • andybob

    Holly and Rhiannon must have been unnerved by the tsunami of eloquently angry commenters who blasted their shoddy article to kingdom come. Take a look at the number of comments they and their fellow bloggers usually get. What went through their minds reading so much tangible proof that readers can recognize an anti-male hatchet piece when they see one is anyone’s guess.

    I couldn’t help but be amused by the feminists who blew Caps Lock gaskets of outrage that men were talking back. One of them accused MRAs of being upset because our toys were being removed. Another stated that she was “really sure” that DV refuges would never turn their backs on male victims. There was no attempt to be either logical or honest – they clung to their grab bag of lies, and snarky shaming tactics with noticeably rising desperation.

    The editor defended herself from the accusation that she wasn’t really concerned about men’s issues by declaring that she wouldn’t have commissioned a “whole series” if she weren’t concerned. She then proceeds to sign off on articles ranging from facile and irrelevant puff pieces, to the ‘Boys are Dumb – Throw Rocks at Them” inanity offered by the Vagenda girls.

    Of course, this was exactly what I expected. My longing to have an honest and intelligent debate with a feminist has long since faded with the realization that they just aren’t capable of rising above their limitations.

    Great analysis of this addition to our gallery of inept feminist responses.

    • Suz

      Thanks for doing the legwork on that. It’s good to know they’re getting such a response, and it’s delightful to wonder what they’re thinking!

      “blew Caps Lock gaskets”


      • andybob

        Thanks Ms Suz. But, after I ‘discovered’ it, I saw that Dr Palmatier had seen it first and linked to it on a previous thread. Nothing gets past our eagle-eyed Doc.

  • Rper1959

    Bravo! Tag team JTO + PE rebuttal of MSM anti male bullshit at its best!

    Meanwhile in Australia MSM lie’s about DV are increasingly being challenged in comments sections

    • chris3337

      Thanks for that link. The best part was the in the responses. Commentators down under have it nailed, they had the stats and the references down pat. They would not let anyone weasle out of their misandric comments, called out on every tired feminist back-talk. Love it.
      Wish we had that type of across the board MRA response to misandric articles here in Canada.

  • Strange

    Excellent article guys!

    I was pleased to see that the Susanne Moore article in The Guardian’s online edition created a mass of comments and conversations about the MRM. I think I saw this site mentioned more than once as a good starting point for those who are interested in finding out about Men’s Rights issues, so there may be an increase in the UK readership which can only be good.

    So far, in the UK, we’ve yet to be hit by some of the more extreme anti-male legislation that has hit so hard at our North American and Australian brothers. Fore-warned being fore-armed and all that, an awareness of where feminist lobbying might try to take the country next may forestall their plans somewhat. And any societal resistance in one country could strengthen those who are trying to turn the tide to redress the balance elsewhere.

  • Fools2234

    Just checked the Register-her website, it seems that when you click on someones profile all of the text is aligned to the left making it difficult to read. I dont know if its just my browser but is anyone else having the same thing happen to them.–_Bigot

  • Skeptic

    Well, well.
    Surprise, surprise – Looky here.

    Another useful idiot is inadvertently driving traffic this way

  • scatmaster

    Another useful idiot is inadvertently driving traffic this way

    Welcome ladies and that includes you montitay.

    Payback is going to be a bitch.

    they clung to their grab bag of lies, and snarky shaming tactics with noticeably rising desperation.

    Predictable and as stated:

    Payback is going to be a bitch


    Had an incident happen to me on Saturday on the drive to the mall. Two women parked on the side of the road one in the vehicle and one out. The one standing on the side of the road is facing traffic. She is just standing there as if to say “look at poor poor little me I need help”. I drove on by. My wife asked me why I didn’t ask them if they needed any help.

    My response snickering to myself.

    “Not worth the effort”.

    I am still smiling.

    • The Real Peterman

      The best way to pay them back is to achieve equality for everyone. That will make them plenty mad, as well as being the right thing to do.

  • Patrick Henry

    Great articles like this is why I support AVfM!

  • Zorro

    Superb article. I find it stunning how women beclown themselves whenever they try to address men’s issues.

    Vagenda. Mother of god.

  • Bubbles

    “The Vagenda also identifies this site, the parent site of Register-her as the “English Defence League of the men’s rights movement.” That is accurate enough, except for AVfM not being a right wing site, or left wing, nor racist, nor tolerant of violence in either action or in rhetoric, nor sexist, nor homophobic, nor associated with a single political party, nor attached to one country and also not exclusionary of anyone by religion, ethnicity, political leaning, sex, sexual orientation or other characteristic of identity. Aside from that, yes, this site is exactly like the EDL.”

    -Oh no! AVfM is being turned into a leftwing conspiracy! Someone give me a pillow to bite quick!

  • keyster

    It is the same language used by “conservative” women’s organizations like the Concerned Women of America (CWoA), which exhorts men to stop going their own way, and get back on the treadmill of working themselves into early graves for the benefit of wives and corporations.

    I realize you guys feel obligated to slip in a cheap-shot on Conservatives in just about every article, so as not to alienate the Liberal MRA contingent, and appear Apolitical to the readership; “fair and balanced” as it were…

    …but just to set the record straight the CWoA is veraciously and vigoriously anti-feminist, and has done more to fight feminist governance in the US than all MRAs worldwide could ever hope to accomplish in their lifetimes.

    There is nothing about them that exhorts men to do anything for women, or corporations for that matter. On the contrary they’ve given up on thinking men even give a shit.

    As long as the (small, disparate, under-funded) MRM community isolates itself from political influence and power, it will remain on the fringe – – right where the Helen Lewis-Hasteleys of the world want it to be.

    • John the Other

      It’s not a cheap shot Key, it’s a reference to what Penny Nance; the CEO of Concerned Women of America said in an interview on Fox News “ Concerned women for America is the nation’s largest public policy organization and we love men. We support men and we’re rooting for them – we think they’re an essential part of the American family. However we want them to feel the pressure to achieve , to put down the remote, to go find a job, to get their education, to build their faith and character […] so walk away from the remote and get busy guys.”

      Nance stated clearly she knows that men are walking away from the traditionally allowed role as protector and provider, adding: “we need them, all the social science together points to the fact that dads are essential in the home, they’re essential in the family. We want them to do a great job now, when they’re young learning how to provide, so that when they are dads they can really be there for their families.”

      source :

      • keyster

        She may have said that on a Fox News interview, but that’s not their policy per se. They do SO MUCH for men, by fighting against VAWA and other anti-men legislation. That cherry picked tidbit makes them appear to be more like the “Concerned Women Who Want to Shame Men into Making more Money so Women Don’t Have to — of America”. As if that’s all they ever really do.

        I really don’t find anything wrong with what she said either. I agree with it.

        My issue is that the MRM isn’t going to single-handedly create a whole new paradigm for civilization that has existed for millenia – – the nuclear family. And by promoting anti-women/anti-marriage/anti-“wage slavery to evil capitalists” – you’re falling right into the hands of Feminist/Marxists who want EXACTLY the same thing you do. Gender seperatism into an Egaitarian Utopia where government is the Father and men are reduced to powerless eunuchs. This is what Conservatives, including the Concerned Women are fighting to stop. They’re on OUR side!

        I’m sorry but the snarky “SoCon” bashing always comes off as gratutious, rather than pertinent to the piece IMHO. You know the “here’s a leftist publication or activist group or author that said something, but then here’s a rather obscure instance where a “SoCon” is equally as bad, just to show we’re not biased. I think it’s disengenious, and it’s veiled political commentary.

        FYI – Other than that, I love the article and I realize you put a lot of work into it. I don’t want to distract from that fact either.

        • John the Other

          I don’t see how when we criticize left-leaning opinion it’s any less, or any more objectionable than when we criticize right leaning opinion. Everybody is fair game.

          Nance’s comments were made in the context of Bill Bennett’s Book of Man which refers to MGTOW men as peter pan syndrome. So that doesn’t reflect the CWoA’s official policy? Okay, she still made that comment, on Fox, thus its relevant to us.

          • keyster

            It is the same language used by “conservative” women’s organizations…


            Of course – who best to discuss men’s issues than two female bloggers on the left leaning New Statesman…

            If the MRM (or at least AVfM) is truely an Apolitical entity (probably not a bad idea, at least for now), then I’d recommend avoiding either label, and let the reader determine that for themselves, if they’re so inclined.

            Whether anything is Left or Right is subjective–unless of course that happens to be the subject of the piece…it otherwise shouldn’t be relevant.

            If both Conservatives and Liberals are equally culpable in the “slavery” and “oppression” of men and boys (as you often posit), than why even make it a point to distinguish between the two in your narrative?

            If there are truly no political solutions, why bother being political at all?

          • Tawil

            “If the MRM (or at least AVfM) is truely an Apolitical entity (probably not a bad idea, at least for now), then I’d recommend avoiding either label, and let the reader determine that for themselves, if they’re so inclined.”

            You’ve raised this a few times, but I’m not really understanding your “apolitical” claim about AVfM. Maybe that is official policy here and you know more than me, fair enough. However what I see happening here is a lot of commenters denouncing misandric political ideology on both left and right, and likewise praising male supportive political ideology on both left and right – ie. wherever good and bad appears… it is only a small number insisting we “choose” one or the other position – and that we must be otherwise apolitical if we don’t do that.

            Endorsing what is male supportive from either political branch is political activism. It aint “sitting on the fence” and it aint being “apolitical”. It is a sophisticated, complex political activism. I for one appreciate AVfM allowing members to choose that kind of political activism.

          • Raven01

            “If the MRM (or at least AVfM) is truely an Apolitical entity (probably not a bad idea, at least for now), then I’d recommend avoiding either label, and let the reader determine that for themselves, if they’re so inclined.”

            Is it not better to warn of the pitfalls of both sides of the fence? They are going to support who they are going to support but, despite being right-leaning I would keep a damned close eye on a bunch of hags that want to force men back into a traditionalist yoke.
            Giving them an environment where it is SAFE for any man to accept a traditional role of his own free will, that would be fine. But, instead of addressing the core issues that make it a losing proposition for men they would prefer to shame them into compliance.
            Not the moral high ground I would ally myself with. Maybe use them to accomplish specific goals but, surely you can see why few self-aware men would buy into their tripe any more than the garbage from the left?

          • Mikey Flubb

            I have been watching this site for many months now and thought it time to make my presence felt.

            You Mr JTO are a complete fuckwit.

            The misogyny you deliver never stops, does it? You and your lap poodle Mr Elam go on and on about the rights of men for god’s sake!

            Let’s take a walk down history shall we you widdle men wiv your widdle dicks and your eency weeny bally wallies.

            Women outlive men because they are calmer beings inside and because they are tethered to Mother Nature in a way you will never know. They are then rewarded with a longer life because of this.

            Men make phallic shaped things like bullets and bombs that take the lives of soldiers thus making their mothers the true victims of war. If you are dead then how can you feel pain? Read Ms Clinton’s speech on it and learn some facts!

            Women work longer hours in the third world while their “men” put their feet up waiting for them to come home to their mud huts in order to be beaten by them.

            In half the homes of the world men hit with hands and knives and paddles made of wood on the soft skins of their women and you expect me to shut up about it?

            I’m telling you right now that I will be silent no more and I will be all over this fucked website like a big fat fly on a man sized shit!

            Fuck you all and now it’s time for a good cwy now dat da big bad mommy has said mean fwings.

          • Turbo

            @ Mikey Flubb

            Welcome to the MRM, and thank you for that brilliant satirical piece reflecting the complete absence of intellectual honesty and integrity at the heart of the feminist machine. Not to mention the complete lack of intellect. Absolutely brilliant, you will indeed be a great asset.

          • Kimski

            @Mikey Flubb:

            That was awesome!
            Best goddamned ms.Clinton impersonation I’ve ever read. I’d even go so far as to call it Hillaryous. Do you come as vaginal spray too, or is it only your slightly bigger head you’re trying to get up their pussies?

          • Astro

            @Mikey The Cunt:
            Women work longer hours in the third world while their “men” put their feet up waiting for them to come home to their mud huts in order to be beaten by them.
            LOL.. I am from the Third World, and people back home in India will be LOLing at this. Mikey, we need a court jester. You sign up?

        • Paul Elam

          Sorry, Keyster,

          In the future we will only take cheap shots at individuals you don’t approve of.

          • keyster

            I think you know what I mean.

            This was an article about ridiculing MRA’s in the New Statesmen and the author felt compelled to suddenly divert all the way over to what a conservative woman said on Fox News months ago, to make the point conservatives are just as bad.

            It was gratuitious.
            It didn’t need to be there.
            It didn’t fit.
            Yet it consistenly seems to happen.

          • John the Other

            Keyster, In my opinion – and by golly, I could easily be wrong : this is not a left-right issue. The left hates men, the right hates men, both sides of the political divide hate men, how they variously express that is reflected by their political leanings. However, framing the men’s rights movement as a left versus right issue is, IMO a distraction. When I taunt the opponents of male human rights, sometimes I will point out their political leanings. Thus – I refer to the NS as a left leaning magazine, and later, in the same article, point out that an author deified by two-girls-one-keyboard is parroting the rhetoric of a right-leaning women’s organization. I, myself, do not care what side of the political spectrum anybody is, if they attack male identity, they’re my lunch.

            And before anybody’s wig flies off – I agree with some of the points of view which find a home on the political right, and I also agree with some of the points of view from the left as well. But various points of agreement doesn’t give anybody a free pass to shit on men, or tell self actualizing men they’re just playing peter pan without earning a rebuttal from me, or Paul, or any other writer on this site. What political orientation anybody cleaves to makes no fucking difference at all.

          • Tawil

            “Keyster, In my opinion – and by golly, I could easily be wrong : this is not a left-right issue. The left hates men, the right hates men, both sides of the political divide hate men, how they variously express that is reflected by their political leanings.”

            I completely obvious fact to most, but worth repeating nonetheless.

            Lets leave the cold war thinking back in history where it belongs.

          • keyster

            I, myself, do not care what side of the political spectrum anybody is, if they attack male identity, they’re my lunch.

            And nobody devours this lunch like you JTO.

            But my point is, if you truly don’t care what side of the political spectrum anybody is, than why label ANYONE as either left or right at all? Whether they be Bill Bennett or Terry O’Neil; why should it matter?

            Because in doing so, you end up distracting from the original point; that point being “male identity”. IOW, if it’s not a left/right issue then stop labeling and generalizations about either/or in the narrative. It serves no purpose.

            Once you enter the realm of Left/Right politics, you’ve entered politics, and politics matters to most people.

            Be aware however, that there will never be a “Men’s Party” or a spontaneous and glorious Awakening, without co-opting an existing power base. Alienating both sides, is a non-starter. Yeah, politics is a shitty business, with shitty people.

            So rather than condeming both, condem neither and wait to see whether your toast lands butter up or not, is my point. Keep it philosophical/cultural and above the political fray.

        • Paul Elam


          I actually think this has gotten sad. Fucking SAD. From my writing, recently and always, I have made numerous, unrelenting attacks on left where it concerns men’s issues. Whenever it is called for I also go after the right. I know you have to know that because I know you read this site a lot.

          But then you come up with this gem:

          I realize you guys feel obligated to slip in a cheap-shot on Conservatives in just about every article, so as not to alienate the Liberal MRA contingent, and appear Apolitical to the readership; “fair and balanced” as it were…

          Motherfucker, please.

          You are way to smart to make this kind of a jackass statement.

          Look at it this way. John has said before that he leans slightly left in politics. You know how I know this? Because I heard him say it to someone else.

          On the other hand, I fall squarely in a conservative libertarian camp. And I know full well that has been consistently reflected in everything I have ever written here.

          I have talked to John almost every day for a long time now. Do you know how many times we have discussed, argued about or explored our differences in politics? Never.

          It never comes up because we never talk about anything other than FTSU on feminists, misandrists and utilitarian traditionalists.

          We don’t check with “the party” to make sure it is OK to defend men and boys. And the day we relent to people like you, AVfM will be as fucked as is can possibly be.

          You need a traditionalist milieu, Keyster. One the Conservative Women of America would issue pats on the head for. This place ain’t it.

          I have always liked and supported you here. I know we see things differently, but an honest examination of the comments and articles here will demonstrate that I have supported and encouraged your input and perspective. I have always thought your ideas, even while I disagree with some of them, were an important part of a balanced discussion here.

          Since the thug brothers invaded to try to bully us into holding our tongues, however, you seemed to have altered you methods, and headed in the less balanced, irrational direction of distortion and misrepresentation preferred by those that want to dictate which anti-male ideologues we can speak ill of. It saddens me to see you go this way.

          For the record, Keyster, John and I have a no holds barred approach to attacking institutions and individuals who attack or exploit men and boys. We don’t give a fuck who they are aligned with, and each and every page of this website fucking proves it.

          • keyster

            “I realize you guys feel obligated to slip in a cheap-shot on Conservatives in just about every article,…”

            I said that because I believe it to be true.
            There is always that “Oh and by the way, Conservatives are no better…” comment that pops up in there. It comes off as forced IMHO.

            I think avoiding the “C” word and the “L” word altogether is the best approach. Neither should matter in a purely philosophical or even journalistic context with regard to men. If you’re not going to be political then don’t be political at all, or it’ll just end in division and discord.

          • Primal

            And to your credit, you have a fairly thick skin when it comes to being attacked yourself even about topics related to your own profession. The ‘no holds barred approach’ is the only thing that will destroy feminists in the end. Hurt feelings from time to time are the price one pays for freedom, for creativity and for potent power.

      • Mr. XY

        Thanks for the video link. They have brainwashing bullshit down to a science to convince women they are victims of male oppression and therefore need to be liberated by going to work….and they tell men to man up and grow up and go to work (while telling women to “Expect More [from men]”….
        Work work work for the new world order and golman sacks vampires.

        My absolute favorite lie in that news video was how they blame men for “walking away from families and children” over the past 20 years because they somehow lost and how men need to just stop walking way! Walking way? How about the feminists and the Government throwing men out and forcing them in to tax/child support slavery?

        What they are saying is women and men work work work because the bankers and the state need your slave labor as they take your children, re-educate them, and load them with impossible taxes and banker’s own debts.

        Lying tyranical bastards. I’m with Karma…mainstream [corporate/government propoganda] media needs to go.

    • TheMoralGodless


      I agree that the CWA, and similar folks, can be allies in many circumstances.

      However, I’ve corresponded with several prominent anti-feminist conservative women and a couple of them have admitted to me that traditionalists still value female privilege over male well-being. And they prioritize marriage over fixing any of the dangers to men in getting married.

      Just as we can cast shame at Leftist colonization attempts of men’s issues, so can we cast shame at the blind spots of the Right.

      • keyster

        Oh and there are blind spots ‘aplenty.

        Subjective concepts like “privilage” and “well-being” implies men and women should be viewed exactly the same. They can’t ever be, as much as the Left (and many on the Right) fantasizes about it.

        As long as women get pregnant and have babies, the rules are different; which is why Feminists fight so hard for reproductive power. They don’t want to be viewed as mere utilities, whereas in that sense they are. And men are “utilities” too for providing and protecting her.

        I guess we’re all just “disposable utilities” in the end aren’t we? Perhaps we should make pro-creation illegal or something, you know like they do in China.

        • TheMoralGodless

          Even before modern medicine, pregnancy was less dangerous to women than war and dangerous jobs was to men.

          Women have never had to sacrifice like men have.

          • keyster

            Even before modern medicine, pregnancy was less dangerous to women than war and dangerous jobs was to men.

            That’s simply not true.
            Maternal death historically has averaged about 1 in 100 births. For perspective, the worst it ever got for men was 2 in 100 during our brutal Civil War (and even then maternal death rates could be as high as 40%). Everything else, including “dangerous jobs”, is measured in tenths of a percent.

            I don’t mean to sound all anti-MRA and everyhing, I’m just really into the truth, and hate hyperbolic statements like that.

      • Primal

        Yes indeed. For instance, Phyllis Schaffly is on of my favorite anti-feminists. Her knock down of feminism is withering and unrelenting. However, she also mentions that men live ‘a dogs life’ and seems quite willing to encourage that sorry state of affairs as a Right wing woman.

        It’s important to shame WHOEVER believes men can be disposed of or enslaved for whatever religion, secular or sacred, which is anti-male.

        What about being intellectual…and letting the pitiful political chips fall where they will?

        • TheMoralGodless

          Right. That’s my point. Cue drumbeat: “Get married. Man up. Sacrifice.”

          Yes, they can be very valuable allies to men’s rights. But as long as they are still happy to see their sons suffer for the benefit of their daughters, they need to be called out on it.

        • keyster

          What about being intellectual…and letting the pitiful political chips fall where they will?

          My point made.
          Thank you.

          • Primal

            So fire away. I really enjoy having you bring truth to dispel popular myths. The more reality we bring to the party the better we will be able to crash the other party, one which relies on fantasies, foolishness, and falseness to do us in.

            I tend to be very anti-Left and anti-Right here because, to me, both political platforms rest on false INTELLECTUAL foundations. I’ve noticed that most people here seem to be happy for me to fire away at the Left but some seem to get all hot and bothered about challenging the silly Sky Daddy superstitions that form the foundation for Conservatism. That said, I’ll be the first to support any idea on the Left or Right which is based on some rigorous reasoning.

          • keyster

            Here’s a popular myth to dispel:

            Conservative foundation is not based on a “Sky Daddy”. It’s based on the Constitution, Free Market Capitalism and limiting government’s role in people’s lives wherever possible.

            The “God and Country” moralizing comes from the Evangelical portion, who’s spokesmen have a pulpit and loud voice.

            Why aren’t non-social Conservatives more critical of Rick Santorum and Michelle Bachmann and that ilk? Because we believe strongly in freedom of religion too. We don’t mess with a person’s Faith.

            FYI – I’m Libertarian (with a pretty big “L”), not Republican. I don’t like Republicans, I prefer them over Democrats.

          • Primal

            Yes to the Constitution, yes to FMC (in principle rather than practice), and yes to limiting government’s role in people’s lives (unless one is a rich Republican deserving of socialism of course!) BUT In God We Trust is one core belief that all Conservatives I know share…some more strongly that others. That core religious superstition forms the foundation for the most strongly held tenets of Conservatives…some ‘hold to’ the Faith more firmly than others but all believe. And since politics, both feminist and Conservative is fathered by faith, I believe that to take faith (particularly where that faith is irrational or dangerous) off the table is irresponsible and often dangerous. I believe strongly in freedom of superstition, freedom of delusion, even freedom for hate mongering feminists AS LONG as there are no limits on messing with said faiths as well. The taboo on messing with one’s faith has got to go because one’s faith always has consequences to others.

            That said, you’ll find that I wholeheartedly support the Constitution, genuine free market capitalism, and limiting government. I just don’t have much interest in religious dogma informing politics for the same reason that I don’t enjoy feminists using their Earth Daddy Karl Marx to rape men’s rights. To me liberty begins in being critical of whatever happens to arouse one’s ire. It’s shocking to me that religious people are routinely able to censor anti-religion screeds just as feminists do anti-feminists screeds. It’s seems that religious people are more than willing to mess with other’s faiths but they don’t like to see the tables turned. That’s where I differ because I believe in freedom for everyone. I need to see all sides covered.

          • Primal

            Not to grind my axe, but this timely article shows religion-related abuse shocking similar to what stupidly ‘religious’ feminists have become infamous for:

    • bhwebb

      Keyster, it is important to distinguish political ideology in relation to gender politics. Although Repblicans/Conservatives and Democrats/Liberals differ greatly on many political and social issues, they share common traits when it comes to pandering to women and their stunning level of naivete regarding men’s issues.

      Making such distinctions underscores the commonalities. Of course, there is a political solution; unfortunately, the simplest of solutions sometimes proves the most difficult to implement. The simple solution

  • http://none universe

    Thank you JtO & Mr. E. for all the effort given to (the casual) dissecting of the Statesman’s recent attempt at informing its readership of AVfM and other men’s oriented issues. I’m a little biased myself in that I’d prefer that you two gents continue relaying the issues.
    But speaking of bias:
    bigot 1. a person who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc. 2. a narrow minded, prejudiced person.
    It appears that we may have a few more in the waiting for the next wave of inclusions to Fortunately, for the enlightened, the intolerant can be found in two places at once – in the Statesman plus

    How those priding themselves on mouthing a model of parity consistently manage to overlook their stated goal all while being unaware of their own failure to reach that goal is not all that surprising but unfortunate for everyone else. Having the privilege of protection from accountability contributes to the furtherance of bad outcomes from poorly realized ideals will do this. This privilege contributes to miring the entire population in regression but off the backs of the most effected by their playing- house/pretend at civil rights – men.

    Thanks again, gents, for labouring at what many find distasteful – meeting ignorance head-on and bringing the issues rightfully back on course again.

  • DruidV

    An oldie but a goody:

    I often marvel at the ingenuity of Men;

    Thanks to the exceptional intelligence and flawless efforts of several socially unacceptable males (think; the other shaming N-type word…) in a university of the recent past, we can now easily access all of this lovely counter intelligence instantly, and at the touch of a button (or better yet, a touch screen, thanks to some more of those socially unacceptable, N-type word males of today).

    Thank you Computer Science Experts of yesterday, today and tomorrow, for making it so damn easy now, for all of us to continually FTSU!

    The rest of us Men owe you a debt that can never be repaid!

    As far as your being “socially unacceptable” goes today, it’s no loss, really. Popularity contests are and always have been for those with less intelligence and with less important things to do with their lives.

    If nothing else, neither the AW nor her approval, is anything to really want anymore, anyhow.

    Onward and upward!!!

  • Paul Elam

    @ Keyster,

    “I think you know what I mean.

    This was an article about ridiculing MRA’s in the New Statesmen and the author felt compelled to suddenly divert all the way over to what a conservative woman said on Fox News months ago, to make the point conservatives are just as bad.

    It was gratuitious.
    It didn’t need to be there.
    It didn’t fit.
    Yet it consistenly seems to happen.”

    Let’s get this correct.

    It was gratuitious. Whenever it attacks the right.
    It didn’t need to be there. Whenever it attacks the right.
    It didn’t fit. Whenever it attacks the right.

    Yet it consistenly seems to happen. Indeed it does, precisely because it is not gratuitous, needs to be there and fits.

    We attack tradcons here because their values in modern society are harmful to men and boys. I’d like to stay and discuss this more, but I have to write a 5,000 word hack job on that chivalrous fuck-stick Mitt Romney.

    • keyster

      We attack tradcons here because their values in modern society are harmful to men and boys.

      And what pray tell are these “values” of which you speak? That something as intrinsic as male/female pair bonding and pro-creation needs a major time out, as in men need to eschew women as mates?

      Ain’t gonna happen Doctor.
      As Uncle Bern says, beat liberalism and you beat feminism; a liberal/feminist movement that got us to this point in “modern society”. That they had to drag along “tradcons” in the process should be revealing enough, and that some continue to fight it, even more so.

      • Paul Elam

        Keyster, Buddy, you are way behind the curve on what AVfM is intended to do, as well of what I think it is capable of doing.

        Did you really think that I thought a website was going to cause men, generally speaking, to walk away from women? Dude, underestimate my intelligence if you must…but by that much?

        We document men in retreat, but certainly you didn’t imagine we were driving it, did you?

        Sigh. This is not something that ends with a ticker tape parade.

        Anyway, just so you know, I never thought anything so silly. So allow me to school you on what AVfM is capable of, and what I think it can and will do.

        AVfM is a launching pad for efforts to change the collective consciousness about men in the west. And by that I mean that men’s side of the story in life becomes normalized and accepted as valid, and will be voiced regardless of whether most, all or some people want to hear it.

        We can’t hope to get everyone on board that, but it hardly takes a majority to cause significant change.

        We can be unimaginably powerful by getting even a small percentage of the general population to acknowledge to themselves that men are human beings, and we are a part of doing that, which is why you see us under increasing attack (from people you oppose ideologically. Remember them, the people we are fighting?).

        They know that men getting a seat at “life’s table,” with all other human beings, would gut them completely. It would be the catalyst for more change that I think you could imagine. All we have to do is stay focused and be as much a part of that process as possible.

        I don’t care if other MRA’s have other plans. I support a lot of them. I don’t agree with something about all of them. I don’t care. They are doing good stuff and they are not nut cases calling for violence.

        Why is there not a voice in your head saying, “Shut up and let this happen?”

        If you want to fight liberalism, then I respect that. You might have better plans than to try to push a non affiliated website into changing its entire mission to fit with your plans.

        Just sayin.


        • keyster

          Duly noted and I have the utmost respect for both you and JTO and the work you do, and I mean WORK and the dedication.

          I tend to think the “men as disposable utilities throughout human history” is waaaay too much for common consumption.

          I understand the point, but I don’t see it resonating beyond the MRM, or blue pillsville – – particularily “tradcons”. It’s a radical shift in thinking that keeps the MRM with the “radical” fringe groups IMHO. The unindocrinated might call it “extremism”.

          Getting people to rap their minds around such an immensely challenging paradigm shift as “Hey, men are victims too, maybe even more so than women.”, is a tall order indeed.

          Now the critical analysis of feminism politically and the affect on women and society culturally…has definite traction, within this zeitgeist anyway.

  • DruidV

    “I’d like to stay and discuss this more, but I have to write a 5,000 word hack job on that chivalrous fuck-stick Mitt Romney.’

    No need for that Dr. Paul, old Mittens pretty much does that to himself, every time he shows up somewhere and proceeds to speak.


    • keyster

      “I’d like to stay and discuss this more, but I have to write a 5,000 word hack job on that chivalrous fuck-stick Mitt Romney.

      OK, now what exactly has Mitt Romney done to hurt men and boys?

      And yet nearly a negative word spoken against our current Feminist-In-Chief, who instituted the President’s Council on Women and Girls and signing the Lily Ledbetter Act into law by executive decree was his first act as President, — gets a pass from AVfM.

      Do you see what I’m saying…yet?

      Be political if you must, but lean one way or the other at your own peril.

      • Primal

        Here’s Uncle Mitt in action on VAWA: Better than nothing but ignorant, indifferent and hardly confidence inspiring. Republicans usually hurt men by simply ignoring us…and by backing the lovely ‘War Against Women’ ladies because they are too cravenly corrupt to risk losing votes from female bigots. To wit, Sandy Adams had nary a word to say about men in her new version of VAWA.

        That said, one sure can hack away first and foremost at our current Feminist in Chief and his Vice-Feminist in Chief. Mitt can have his turn as First Target in Grief, as soon as he weasels his sorry way into office. For my money, any shot at sociopathic politicians on either side of the aisle is useful.

        • keyster

          Republicans usually hurt men by simply ignoring us…

          I’d prefer apathy than direct negative action any day.

          To wit, Sandy Adams had nary a word to say about men in her new version of VAWA.

          It can never, and will never be like that so stop thinking it should or could. As long as Feminists/Leftists control the victim narrative through political correctness, Men can NOT be victims of anything as a group.

          And FYI – in case you didn’t notice, Paul was being sarcastic when he said he’d write something about Romney,

          • Primal

            I tend to find those who are apathetic Constitutional hypocrites more disgusting than the normal political scumbags. When the ‘patriarchal’ party of rights ignores their own half of the population, I become disgusted. It’s like Democrat John Conyers waxing poetic about ML King style justice as he buggers his black and white brothers to the hilt. I also have good reason to believe that covert Conservative misandry is far more dangerous than the feebleminded overt hatred one can easily see and challenge in Democrats.

            And as far as political correctness goes, it only take one courageous person to break that narrative. Imagine Sandy Adams OFFENSIVELY telling the Dems that VAWA is War on Men…rather than defending herself feebly regarding the fictional War on Women. The PC bullies tend to cut and run the moment someone courageous changes the narrative.

            And I did notice his sarcasm. I responded to your question about Romney.

          • DruidV

            Sarcasm? What’s that?

  • MRA.

    Here is the problem they are facing, they want to pretend to care about men and boys now without relating it to the MRM which is impossible, the people who get their first touch with the MRM do it by simple searching about corruption in DV, parenting rights, corrupt family court etc, just a search on Google of any of these terms will take you to right to the manosphera, their attempt is to stop others from finding the MRM and keep the MRM and discrimination against men apart form each other, which is impossible.

    • DruidV

      The fembots have no hope of stopping or even slowing this very necessary human rights movement and they know it.

      Their panic and desperation are really beginning to show, lately.

      Watch for even more pathetic and disgusting, crocodile-tear filled cries of “Those awful Men are so mean!!! I am womyn and I am the real vyktym here!!!”.
      (so much for all that roaring, eh?)

      They just can’t seem to pry their lips off the jug long enough to see how low they have sunk, or how they are being openly laughed at, since any pity for them has long since evaporated.

  • Stu


    More bullshit from feminists, more freebies for women

    • Paul Elam

      Not that it will be approved, but my response…

      Is it enough to put women on a level playing field? No.

      The only thing that will do that is women making different choices. When they elect to put income ahead of family and lifestyle, ahead of personal safety and quality of life. That is your gender wage gap, as has been documented repeatedly.

      If you want pay parity, make your life about work, even if it kills you. You need to dig your equality out of ditches by the shovel full.

      • Ben

        I get so sick of the pay gap myth. On some certain day in April, they erect a huge plywood sign that announces the end of the work year for women which, on cursory examination, makes absolutely no sense at all. Until you walk closer, that is. I thought to myself, “why are women quitting for the year? It’s only April???” LOL..

        Come to find out, they are trying to say that this is the day of the current year that women would have to work until in order to reach the same pay as their male counterparts from the year before. And wouldn’t it surprise you; it is men who are standing around the sign distrubuting pay gap propaganda to passersby on the sidewalks. They distrubute this pay gap lie all over our college campuses and it needs to stop.

        They need to put one up that addresses all the implications of male students having to register with the selective service in order to be admitted to a public university. But, of course, we would just be told to “stop whining.”

        It’s purely biological, I think; we have not evolved much since Homo Habilus or Austrailapithicus Africanus (or whatever those scientific terms are, lol.; I am in no way an anthropologist).

        • Roderick1268

          Good to see you back Ben.

          • Ben


            I was thinking about erecting a plywood sign here that debunks the gender pay gap. But then I realized that if I were to do that, I might as well make one to display beside it that denies that the holocaust ever happened too.

          • Bombay

            Ben – pass out the government report showing:

            “Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.”

   Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

            The fact that this study is ignored shows the dishonesty in this subject area.

          • Kimski

            The pay gap myth goes into the same box as ‘walk a mile in her shoes’, ‘men dominating in politics’, ‘it is so much harder for a woman’, and ‘slutwalks’..

            It is basically a box stuffed with stupid choices women make for themselves, and then continues to blame on men, for no apparent logical reason.

            Confront them with their own stupidity of those choices, and watch the guppy imitations.
            I have yet to get an explanation as to what exactly ‘it’ is, in ‘it is so much harder..’, and pointing out that women are the majority of voters, and therefore places men in top positions themselves, will also shut them down quickly.

            It all boils down to questioning the things they feel they are entitled to, without putting in the work:
            If you want to spend more time with family and kids, you can’t expect to be payed as much as somebody who does not make that choice. My favourite reply to this BS is usually just asking why business owners don’t hire women only, if they can get the same amount of work for less money in wages.
            If you think it’s harder for you to do a job, because you have to work in high heels and put on make up before that, you might consider taking off those shoes, and not wear make up. Or does the knowledge of men finding you attractive, so they are more easily manipulated, really mean that much to you?
            If you think it is unfair that men are represented it larger numbers in politics, you might consider reading up on the subject of politics enough to understand that if you vote for men, that is what you get.
            If you’re afraid of being raped and hate being called a slut, you might consider not dressing, drinking and acting like one.

            And the list goes on and on.
            I really don’t think it would be very hard to make a book that would outdo Jeff Foxworthy’s ‘You might be a redneck’-book in stupidity and bad choices that some women make. I would buy such a book in a split second, if anyone get my drift and decides to run with the idea.
            ‘You might be a woman if..’


        • JinnBottle

          Actually, I think you got the names right! :D

      • Stu

        Yeah I doubt they will actually approve my post either

        • Turbo

          Just clicked the link Stu, no comments so presumably yours and Paul’s comments were “not approved”.
          How surprising.

    • DruidV

      Pay gap mythology will, IMO, be one of the very last femunist lies to be dismantled, simply because it is so widely accepted and engrained. Society ain’t even trying to see the lie here.

      Nothing screams “damsel in distress!!!” like imaginary “unfair” pay dragons flapping about, high above that mean old glass ceiling.

      As if…

      This myth pisses me off to no end, because fuckwits who espouse it never stop to consider exactly why the EEOC along with all of their allied gvt. alphabet cliques, aren’t constantly crawling up corporate ass and dispensing swift justice to all the misogynist stooges who purposely oppress wymyn with lower pay, at virtually every level.

      Because like firey dragons, there ain’t no such animal, never even occurs to them.

      • Raven01

        They fight it so hard because they know that logic dictates that women SHOULD be paid less. Precisely because, they will not offer any company the same years of service and will require extra payments not given to their male counterparts.
        Employees can be a non-capital way to invest in your own company. Adding quality employees, training them and, paying them enough to retain their services can be costly. That would make men and, women with grown children the more desirable employees. With men still coming out ahead as they can offer more total years of service to my business.

      • tallwheel

        I really can’t understand why others buy into the pay gap myth so easily. Personally, before I even knew the MRM existed – and was even a subscriber to several feminist ideas – I never really bought the whole idea of a pay gap. Always thought it was BS, even before I had my first whiff of the red pill. The MRM explanation of the pay gap is exactly what I always assumed to be true. I hope there are many sleeping MRA’s out there who realize the same, and will be introduced to the red pill soon.

        • Eye in the Sky

          One of the more interesting things about the “pay gap” is that the vast majority of HR departments are staffed entirely by women. They know when women are slacking off and they also know when women are abusing mat leave, sick days, and stress leave (all the time). They do it themselves.

      • Mateusz

        It’s not like a dragon so much as an ostrich. Ostriches exist, but they just don’t bury their heads in the sand, and yet, an ostrich with head in sand is myth that will never fully go away. It’s an image that persists because it’s passed along, makes an easy to reference cartoon image, and because it’s not a mythical creature, but real-life animal. The income gap exists, just that the nature of the gap is not what is claimed. It’s easy to look at women earning less and say it’s due to discrimination, rather than choices or the option to work less which men don’t have.

        Political cartoonists can easily draw a glass ceiling, and it makes a handy reference.

        If people actually observed ostriches, they’d realize they never bury their heads in the sand, and if people actually examined the income gap, they’d see that it’s not due to some system of discrimination. However, in either case, people would rather go with the popular myth. The only main difference is you can challenge the image of ostriches with heads buried in sand without powerful organizations accusing you of fighting a war on birds.

    • Ben

      What a bigoted article!

      They are even regarding the fact that women outlive men as oppression of women on the grounds that, because women live longer, the effects of the pay gap are compounded as women reach retirement. Amazing!

    • Raven01

      So, when she gets his money to add to her money when he dies before her…. she is still a victim? Not, that the health-care industry is failing men.
      I honestly cannot get my head around how so many women are even capable of being so completely self-centered. That same behaviour(and correct my unqualified azz if I am wrong) in a man is defined as part of the sociopaths flaws. The inability to connect their actions with the damage it does to others or to feel any empathy?

      • Kimski

        “I honestly cannot get my head around..”

        Don’t even try, Raven. You’re very likely going to cause harm to yourself trying, and end up with a split personality disorder.

    • Raven01

      I will find out tomorrow if I join 2 of my MRM heros in having my comment rejected.
      Keep it up guys.

  • Roderick1268

    This whole thing about the hard chairs and Tom at the London School of Economics is a load of crap. It was before the case and had nothing to do with it.
    Tom had the chairs changed for everybody because they were uncomfortable. If I remember correctly, he stated to the university that the seating was uncomfortable and it wasn’t conclusive to studying well for long hours.
    He solved a problem, and considering the place is dominated by woman it benefited them the most. It was a deliberate and dirty attempt to make tom look petty and take the attention off the real issue. Phhh!
    Tom is now involved a new project of his own. I think he has discussed the court case on facebook and twitter, which I don’t partake in yet.(Call me old fashion)
    Tom recently had a live public debate with a feminist, which was being filmed and is working on a documentary about his case and the MRM.
    I’ve been hen pecking him to update his site Sexismbusters and make a public statement for MRAs.
    about the case.

    and it was no conclusive to

  • Turbo


    More research on the Male contraception.

  • JinnBottle

    Paul – Who are “the thug brothers”? LOL, even tho I don’t know what the ref is to, I like the name.

    • DruidV

      There are at least two individuals here who shall remain nameless and who are, or were, as the case may be, attempting to “bully” others into agreement with their own, personal political opinions.

      I’m hoping with fingers crossed, that this activity is a mere anomaly and that the concept of political bullying, will not spread or be widely accepted here.

      “This is your brain.This is your brain on political opinions, projected as fact.”

      “Just say FTSU!!!”

      • Dr. F

        1/ Rocking Mr E.

        Bugger this they shall be nameless stuff.

        Facts is facts in fact.

        • DruidV

          I didn’t want my friend Dr. F here, to have to name any names…

          I tried it the nice way people, I really tried…

          “Good” cop, “Bad” cop.

          What are you gonna do?

          I’m gonna go ahead and step out of the room for a minute to get some coffee, Doc…


  • andybob

    The editorial board of “The New Statesmen” had a vagenda alright. The most offensive aspect of the series of articles was the pretence of balance and objectivity. In the words of an eminent Australian scholar, “as if.”

    James Ball, the author of “A shed of one’s own,” comes close to laying forth a case for men’s rights, but reveals that he was closely monitored with this line:

    ”Success as a man is for many of us loaded with the guilt that comes from having it easy – and talk about male culture too quickly slides into chauvinism.”

    Guilt? Having it easy? Can’t you just imagine the rancid coffee breath on his neck as Ms stood over him. God forbid he should slide into chauvinism as he attempted to point out that men have problems too.

    The feminist commenters were equally dishonest. Some of them claimed that MRAs are homophobic. Here is part of my response:

    “I would refer you to the number of recent articles at A Voice for Men that declare staunch support for the rights of gay men. Take note of the 100 plus comments on each thread that demonstrate some of the most perceptive and eloquent understanding of the gay male experience that I have ever read. Gay Rights Activists could take lessons.”

    Then, MRAWatch (which MR JTO suggests is David Futrelle – God knows he cites Manboobz as the source of all wisdom often enough), tried to suggest that a “breed white women out of existence” comment on a recent Spearhead thread was much worse than anything on RadfemHub. Here is my response:

    “The MRA was positing the entirely credible suggestion that western women have become so infested with man-hating, gynocentric entitlement that men would do well to avoid them – no sperm, no genetic future. RadFemHub is advocating mass genocide, leaving the minimal percentage of men required to live in slave camps to fulfill the nasty jobs that overlordettes deem beneath them.

    The MRAs is merely suggesting the witholding of money and sperm from western women until men can cut a better deal. Radfems are suggesting concentration camps, massacre and bloodshed. There is a vast gulf of difference between these two positions, as well you know.

    MRAs would long to have an honest discussion with feminists, but we are always met with this kind of willful obfuscating of the issues. Men are talking back, and feminists can only respond with schoolgirl antics – lies, arrogance and snark. If that’s all you’ve got, then I suggest that now would be a good time to panic. It won’t hold back the changing tide for long.

    Gay men like men, support men, identify as men, because we are men. More and more of us are supporting our straight brothers demanding to know why male pain is dismissed with the kind of ridicule so apparent in these articles. Do the men in your lives know how much you despise them? I hope that none of them ever need to rely on you for anything.

    May God have mercy on your sons.”

    • Dr. F

      Mr Bloody annoying Mr Roberts.

      Write an article you flaming great dollop of dingo dung.

      Is it just me wanting this ? Yeah right…. as if ?

      • andybob

        Exploding keyboard, remember?

        • Dr. F

          Exploding Dr. F mate.

        • Stu

          Oh oohh, he’s at it again. I’m going to go and hide.

          • Dr. F

            Heckle and Jeckle the two of you.

            There’s AndyBob with his arms crossed and a smirk on it’s face and now here’s you nipping and snapping with a “Nyar nyarr.”

            Drongo twins you lot are I swear it.

          • Stu

            You are right, we are drongos. Dumber than the dumbest dog shit. It’s good that we don’t write then isn’t it ?

            Ok you have caught us out, we don’t write because we can’t even spell “it” or “the” without spell check. But I’m working on it……I got a book to help……it’s called “How ta rite mor beterer” by Dr F.

          • Dr. F


            If you won’t “rite” an article with your name on it then I will.

            Yep, it will be a lukewarm slice of dishwater that will ruffle not even bum fluff.

            I’ll sign it with your first name “Stu”, with your last name “Pid.”

        • Paul Elam

          So let the motherfucker blow up! :)

  • amoeba

    I get so angry about this. I hate when these bloggers/magazines/tv/radio shows have these buffoons who think they’re the authority on male issues, tell everyone who all men are, how they think, and of course, have a snide, condescending bias towards MRA’s. They try to make us look whiny and stupid, and manipulate you into thinking that they’re obviously right and anyone who disagrees is obviously an unobservant imbecile. I know I’m basically rehashing what’s already been said. But I can’t help myself. The reality that I live is so radically different from what they keep telling me, that I feel like I’m living in some kind of alternate universe.

  • Bubbles


    Seems Bill Burr is going soft and promoting idiotic white-knightery:

  • Mikey Flubb

    Ah the great man himself!

    I saw one of your stupid sexist stickers on a blog here in America and I thought to myself if I was there in your fucked up land down under I’d teach your men a little old something called Misogyny. Mate!


      Yes I am great….you got a problem with that?

      Ya better get used to it toots because be are not going anywhere.

      Anyhow must go as we are going on a sticker run at the local high school tonight.

      KMM (The Great) AvFM Youth recruitment officer

      • Tawil

        Lol. It appears Mikey is getting a little unsettled about KMMs sterling example of activism. You notice a little change in public opinion lately, mikey?. Nothing like a feminist advocating violence to further make our point for us.

        Good luck with the teen education, KMM :-)

      • DruidV

        FTSU, Karma, but remember to smile a big old Cheshire grin while doing so. FTSU looks good on ya, brother!!!

  • Roderick1268

    Mikey Flubb
    Ahhhh the refreshing voice of feminism!
    You inspired piece took me right down memory lane,
    And reminded me exactly why I am here.
    Your violence is barely concealed.
    Thanks Flubb.

    • Mikey Flubb

      Listen here Woderwick 1268 (what’s that number mean? Your birth year? Your yearly salawy?)

      I write poetry for my the local Wimmins Cave Enclave and always when I read out to my SIPs (Sisters In Pain) my poems from a wimmins heart, we all group as one and hug until dawn. No words need ever be spoken among us during the Pagan Moon these nights because the crying is released and then becomes the words unto themselves.

      You wouldn’t understand this with your hating hard heart made of fossilised Dinosaur shit!

      I was just about to post some poems but no I don’t think so now, you do not deserve it!

      • Tawil

        Here’s a poem:

        Roses are red,
        Violets are blue,
        feminists feign victimhood
        and not a word of its’ true

        PS. And I expect one of those all-night hugs for my heartfelt outpouring.

        • Mikey Flubb

          That’s not a poem!

          Shut the fuck up you stupid male! If you don’t I’ll show you up with my own poetry and make that so called poem look like the shit it i and then you will have to scuttle off with a burning red face.



          Editor’s note:

          Note that the user Mikey Flubb, aside from demonstrating irrational rage that somebody might disagree in doggerel verse, the use of “Male” as an insult and pejorative is telling. No matter what other protestations of “equality” this example of rad-feminism might make, “male” is an insult. You gentlemen are, by your sexual identity, inferior, despised, not worthy of consideration as human beings.

          A bigot named Mikey Flubb,
          whose heart had no room for love

          she could not resist, taking a piss
          on the carpet of the men’s club

          She claimed as the victim
          their forbearance but kicked in
          the glass of the open french doors

          They tried to be patient
          with her irrational hatred
          but finally showed her the door

          • Stu

            You are correct about one thing, that was a shit poem. You can tell, the whole structure of it……with it’s simplistic sonnet style and rhyming…..I have a better one for you that suffers from none of that.

            Roses are red

            Eat shit

        • Mikey Flubb

          We had an impostor one time a few years ago.

          “She” was new and the tears did not flow from “her” and we got suspicious. So we hug-broke and asked “her” a question. Pagan Wim looked “her” in the eye and said, “Can you see in your mind’s eye a lovely nymph being fucked in the ass?” and do you know what happened? No, of course you don’t you stubble faced plastic lego effigy of capitalism, so I will tell you.

          “Her” pupils dilated and then we knew. We pulled off the wig and kicked his smelly ass out and now we check newcomers at the door.

          Yes, we use a glove in case of infection.

          • Kimski

            Just let me guess here..
            You became suspicious because he had talent, right?

        • DruidV


      • Kimski

        “I write poetry for my the local Wimmins Cave Enclave.”

        Never mind my question above.
        I think I got my answer in spades.

        Here’s another, then:
        When did you sell out on your pride and dignity??

        • Mikey Flubb

          Paste me on the sidewalk, and in the burning rain,
          I am just a wimmin, so smack me thence and again.

          Our red of which we shed is off’red to Mom Moon,
          We dance mud splashed upon a thatch of brack from dawn ’til it meets the noon.

          He r***d me with a knife of flesh that burst from an overcoat,
          That seed did swell and now we tell my tum is over-bloat.

          It’s over-bloat no not with fruit or fish but from that ring in hell,

          Mother stitch who flies on twitch made from earthen sticks. I call you now and ask of what will be.

          When my cunt has ope’d wide shall I greet a new born babe,

          or will there be or another r***r, that has come to be?

          • Turbo

            Go to bed Mikey, tomorrow is another day, see a doctor, you may be cured.

          • Kimski

            I can not wrap my head around
            this madness you present.
            The infancy is shining through,
            the make-up and pretend.

            With every stilted word you proved,
            the quality it lacks.
            You need your medication, girl,
            and please get off our backs.

            Your feelings doesn’t mean a thing,
            it’s time that you grew up.
            Stop wasting time with childish words,
            get out and get a job.

            ‘Cause words are not just words, you see,
            You need a certain flair.
            And what you just presented here,
            brings nothing but despair.

          • Kimski

            @Mikey Flubberass:

            I’ve been writing lyrics for rock tunes for more than 30 years, cupcake.
            I can match anything you can come up with, and do it better than anything you could possibly imagine, in half the time.
            I don’t need to copy stuff. I use what brains and testosterone god gave me.

          • Roderick1268

            God how ugly.
            (Mikey Flubb poem)

          • DruidV

            Dude, wtf? I mean seriously…

            Yer gonna come here and attempt to talk us out of your misandry?

            You fuckwit femunist assholes really are very stupid.

            For the last fifty years you idiots have been waging overt war on all things Men and family in an effort to feed your bottomless egos and now you have the absolute fucking gall to cry foul, because we just aren’t gonna take it anymore and in fact because we are fighting back?

            You must be the brainy one in the bunch though, because you can actually type (pound) on a keyboard! Maybe you can be taught…

            What you type here is the usual bile filled, misandrist bullshit that drips from the mouths of all fembots like yourself, but then what did we really expect? You are not clever. You are not hip. and you certainly are not getting laid around here either, if that’s what you’re after.

            You better womyn-up, already and prepare yourself!

            Then get over it…

            FTSU is here to stay!!!

      • Turbo

        Hope your spelling in your poetry is better than your posts here

        • Kimski

          Probably not.
          There’s also not a whole lot of words that rhymes with women, wage gap and/or misogynists.

          • Turbo

            Holy shit kimski, i just down voted your pride and dignity post, when I wanted to upvote, damn my lack of motor skills and damn that they are so close. The click of a button is a pisser, but plus one for you

      • Roderick1268

        Actually Flubb I was born in 1268 but people have kindly told me I look older.
        SAP (sisters are pain) I’ve been in your Cave Enclave.

        I was blubbering till dawn too, but I got groped, so I left.
        Here’s my poem:
        My Mummy didn’t love me neever, – she was to busy eating beaver.
        No disrespect to healthy gay woman, – but God!!!!
        Shave your back and do something with your hair!
        For the sake of the children.
        Woderwick, sob.

  • scatmaster


    • Kimski

      You might as well call out a 5150 alert, scatters.
      That’s the police call sign for escaped mental cases.

    • DruidV

      and here I was wondering what I was gonna do with all this troll chow I bought in bulk…


      Let’s get Mikey!!!

      He likes it, hey Mikey!!!

  • Turbo

    I will say it again Mikey Flubb, you need medical help, good luck, let us know how you go.

  • Turbo

    A debate does not start with you calling everyone a cunt.
    Get some mental help, really, you need it. If you are then ready to debate, actually bring up a subject. You will find here that you will be debated to oblivion if you deal in facts. But you are not ready to be here. Go away and learn, and come back when you are ready to use more than abuse.

  • Turbo

    Well, Mikey, you are not integrating seamlessly into society here, you are attacking a group of people who have been beaten, emotionally and financially, by a system that is incredibly bias against males. Yes that is right, males. We have had our children stolen, our property stolen and our wages garnished to be given to our overlord women that can or cannot grant us access to our children at a whim. All with the consent of our governments.
    As I said, you need help, so do most of us, just to survive.
    So get that help, you have some sympathy because you are rambling incoherent rubbish here. But do not expect that to last, cause we are experts in emotional pain here, we have been forced to eat it for breakfast. Now go away and get the help you need, your delusion need s urgent attention, I am serious here, you need help.


      “Ok fair enough I will not say curse words on the condition that someone out there here will debate me with facts and numbers that say I am wrong with my above post.”

      Actually the onus is up to YOU to provide the source URL’s to back the points you make.

      BTW you WILL provide them or you will be banned.

    • Turbo

      You want a good debate with no shaming, but so far you have called everyone a cunt. News for you Mikey, you cannot demand disrespect from the get go and then demand respect from those you have abused. Read this site for a while, your list will be dismantled before your very eyes. That is if you are genuine, which I doubt. There will be no debate here for you, because you have been dishonest and abusive. I think you crave attention, sorry, we don’t have time, we have work to do.

      • Kimski

        Thank you, Turbo.
        I wrote a long reply to MF, and then my pc ate it. You said it better, and a whole lot shorter.

        • Roderick1268

          Nothing worse than effort and passion being lost without trace. That entitles one to a meltdown.
          In which I have partaken, myself.

          • Kimski

            It’s okay, Rod.
            I’ve known for a while that my pc is PC.
            Ovis ex machina.

        • Turbo

          Thanks Kimski, most annoying when your PC does that.

  • andybob

    Manboobz, sorry to interupt, um, whatever it is you do when not betraying your own kind, and come and collect little Mikey from the side exit where she is waiting in disgrace.

    We recognise that it must be a challenge to keep tabs on all of the oddballs who shelter on your site. So, in the interests of the Greater Good, we suggest that you introduce a programme that encourages social skills, personability and personal hygiene. Even the unhinged should be housetrained.

    This will ensure that the next time little Mikey ventures forth she will be less likely to inspire the pity and disgust that has so characterised her recent venture. Please collect her immediately.

  • Roderick1268

    I tell you what, – AVFM couldn’t have payed for this!!!

    Only the best MRAs writers and orators could match this, – in explaining the MRM or why most men and woman are here at AVFM.
    At first I thought this was a MRA acting up for slapstick humor. Then I realized it is a possibly a younger woman.
    The thing to remember guys we have here in black and white the example why we are here, and what we are dealing with, – a believer as Dr T has coined.
    Now lets look at Mikey Flubb’s opinions and responses.
    My joking aside,
    I’ve worked with and been friends with adults with neurological differences and various genetic disorders and some personality disorders.
    Many people who suffer more serious dysfunction than my own, which is why I understand them.
    Many of the most volatile high functioning adults I’ve met personally were woman, – a couple were my friends.
    By the responses we have received from this woman this is typical of the feminist world outlook. and we are very fortunate to have this.
    Whatever her opinion, this woman is being honest with us about what she believes to be real at the moment.
    I am convinced she has no awareness of her mental limitations what so ever. Or it may be better to say limited emotional intelligence.
    People don’t realize – that suffered trauma has much to do with peoples measurable abilities as well.
    A missing parents love in a child’s development, or a fucking crazy parent has huge affect on persons life.
    All this has been explored or covered by many of our best people here.
    This person is raw material for us, an wonderful example for us of the Feminist mind set for us to work on.
    But we can do this in the comfort of our own site under the scrutiny of our own best minds.
    And Mikey Flubb please continue to share with us what has already been rammed down our throats all our lives.
    Thank you Rod!

    • Kimski

      I agree a 100%.

      She underlined everything that was mentioned in the article and the comment section perfectly, and at just the right time. Right down to the violent threats when presented with reality, and the shaming language from A to Z to top it off.

      I’m beginning to suspect that we are seriously overestimating their capability for rational dialogue and reasoning here, guys.

  • Roderick1268

    Kimsky, you poor guy I hate it when my computer eats my work, It enough to make even a the calmest god to have a meltdown!

  • scatmaster

    we suggest that you introduce a programme that encourages social skills, personability and personal hygiene. Even the unhinged should be housetrained.

    That is kind of difficult when mooby has none of those skill sets.

  • Roderick1268

    This is pitiful,
    and should be embarrassing.
    A car crash in slow motion, but a great example of Feminism for us.

  • Roderick1268

    Hey guys, I’ve been thinking none of us have bothered to seriously answer Mikey Flubbs accusations about men.
    We are in a public forum, should we take turns in answering each accusation, or treat them with the disdain they deserve?
    Usually someone steps in who can be bothered to deal with this nonsense, step by step.
    Feminists learn by rote, do we all need to?

    • Kimski

      I don’t want to waste any more time by crediting a bigoted malebashing racist with gay issues with an answer.

      Like you, I thought it was another MRA making fun at first, but she proved to be everything I’ve come to despise in women. I hope she chokes on all that hate.

    • andybob

      Disdain is probably best.

      ‘Mikey’ is deranged and deluded. She is irrational and incoherent (drugs?). I’m doubtful that any worthwhile discussions are possible with someone who writes about “menz” and “wimmins”. Also, she called our Mr Kimski a shithead and our Mr Turbo a cunt. That makes her unworthy of our engagement.

      We ought to wait for the AVFM clean-up service to resume operations. I think Dr Elam will need a high-pressure hose to remove all trace of ‘Mikey’.

      Take note guys: the only person who has ever called me a fag on this, or any other MRA website is a radical feminist. They just can’t help themselves.

      • Kimski

        “They just can’t help themselves.”

        Nice of her to prove everything that’s been said about feminists and gays for the last couple of days, though. Never mind the shithead. I’ve been called worse things by women. But that one post to you was priceless as evidence.

        • andybob

          I’m telling you buddy, they hate all men – gay men are no exception.

          I just re-read her nonsense and noticed that she has insulted JTO, Keyster and Roderick1268 and Mr Merrick as well. Then pleads for a debate. Something is seriously amiss with this one. She says she’s taking screenshots and going back to “dump a big crap” on Radfemhub. Charming.

          Loved your poems, by the way. Did you read Dr F’s? LOL! I think ‘Mikey’ has flounced back to Radfemhub for her ‘big crap’. She expected us to respond with outrage, but was met with pity, humour and poetry. Her head must be spinning. What will they think of next?

          • Kimski

            We’ll find out in a couple of days when the next racist bigot comes this way, presenting her feelings as facts, as if we’ve never seen their propaganda before.

            They really need to woman up soon, ’cause I’m getting somewhat bored here. They all sound alike, and I’m starting to loose track of who said what, because their rhetorics are so similar right down to the phrases they use.
            Brainwashed much?

          • DruidV

            One of the best ways to be shown the door around here, is to start aimlessly abusing and insulting JTO… simply because he is right!!!

            Notice, how JTO was just sitting there, doing some light reading, minding his own damn business, and WHAM… fembot attack, from behind (as usual) and out of nowhere!!!

            Sorry about that brother. Vigilance is key and we “flubbed” it. Lemme help you get those femuknives out of your back here. There, that’s better. Mr JTO, I’m afraid those tar stains ain’t coming out. You will definitely be needing a new shirt. Damn femicunts don’t care who the smear…

            We will be needing better look-outs.

            Mister JTO, in all seriousness, I suggest you wear their hatred of you like a badge of honor, sir. Penning a point by point article which highlights and then dismantles such bigoted hateful “facts”, as the kind demonstrated by the flubster, never goes out of style.

            It’s a thought.

          • John the Other

            DruidV mate, If I was inclined to keep trophies – I’d have printed and framed the comment listing myself, Andybob, Merrick, Paul, and Keyster as most hated. Key, who by the way is in no way to be discounted over a minor disagreement over politics. As I’m not a trophy-collector, it still put a great big smile on my face.

          • Turbo

            @ JTO

            Now John, you are being too modest, you were on the list too. I think you were called a fuckwit if I am not mistaken.


            “You ( Keyster, my addition ), that fag Andybob and his dung-boy Merrick, Elam, and JTO were the ones we despised the most as we know that the “blue-pill” people might listen to you.”

            Gentlemen, I agree with DruidV 100%, wear this as a badge of honour. They are scared of you.

            Now, I know they sent an intellectually inept agent to do their dirty work, that just means that the smarter of the femos will not dare venture in here, lest they be beaten up with logic.

            Well done, you are like Eczema under the femos skin, and they are now itching uncontrollably.

          • Turbo

            @ DruidV

            i agree with your sentiments,although I am not sure that we flubbed” it.

            I think what happened here is what i see happen time and time again. People come here with differing opinions, whether they be aggressive and abusive, argumentative or stupid. I think that the posters here have a great perspective of a troll, a blue pill person that may be swayed by logic or any other. I think the perspective here is acute.

            What I see here mostly is posters, yourself included, that take up the discussion to these people, so that the main players can just move on, or comment if they so desire. In other words, the generals have back up so that they can concentrate on other things.

            Seems to me that it works pretty well, from what I have have read.

            You know what DruidV, I reckon Paul and JTO smile when the knife goes in their back, and I reckon they laugh even louder when they pull them out. I think they love it, and so do we.

          • keyster

            I’d have printed and framed the comment listing myself, Andybob, Merrick, Paul, and Keyster as most hated.

            It’s truly an honor to be recognized along with such men.

            If anyone else but a rather emotionally unstable and delusional radical-feminist had said that, I wouldn’t have believed them.

  • Roderick1268

    She’s a sweet stable soul, and loves as all really.
    A font of wisdom.

    Dr. F I have had fun, but is she worth the time?

    • Dr. F

      Mate I don’t reckon.

      I wrote a poem in response to that dreadful crap she wrote and that’s that aye.

  • DruidV

    “I was brought up in a violence free home…blah blah bla. Wymyn are more better than teh menz!!!

    Wow! You really are a deluded feminidiot dude. Textbook in fact…I could go point by point and destroy every one your feeble “facts”, but I think you know how baseless they really are and everyone here already knows that too.

    This one sided bullshit won’t fly anymore, asshole. Now tell your story walking, weakling.

    You and yours are finally finished and it couldn’t have come sooner!!!


    • Roderick1268

      I will tell you based on people I’ve met, and some how this connects to being in care with my sisters but at the moment I don’t remember why.
      The weirdest and worst most damaged and perverted people I have unfortunately met in my life time.
      Either are totally silent about their families, or paint a rosier than life picture about their kin.

  • keyster

    You, that fag Andybob and his dung-boy Merrick, Elam, and JTO were the ones we despised the most as we know that the “blue-pill” people might listen to you. I am ashamed to say it as representative of struggling wimmin that we were worried about your writing but not now cunt!

    Thank you, but why would you and the “struggling wimmin” ever be worried about what I write?

    And why do you feel compelled to engage in vitriolic rants and invective? Why can’t you seem to make a point without resorting to it?

    Don’t you see you’re behaving exactly as you purport Men to be; angry, irrational and violent? You don’t want to be like Men do you?

  • DruidV

    I swear, Doc, I never even saw it slither in., We are getting the garrotes and a pet carrier together, as we speak, though.

    So no worries. Well cage it and return it to its proper cage, at the shelter.

    If you’d like to help, put these gloves on.

    When it comes to femisnakes, they are generally all hiss and no bite, but you do have to watch out for the fangs, they hold lots of venom and occasionally, certain snarky specimens will try to take a nip at you. This venom isn’t lethal per se (except to civilizations, families and fathers), but it does cause a burning, itching sensation and if you should be bitten make sure to keep reading AVFM until it passes.

    There are already far too many victims of the femisnake out there. Let’s all make sure no one else succumbs.

    Safety first!!!

  • Izzey

    I’m biting my tongue on this one. OMG..It is bleeding so badly that I am sure I need stitches.

    Who left the barn door open?

    And did anyone notice that in spite of the hypocrite accusing everyone of “shaming language” it uses it the most?

    Biting my tongue….biting my tongue.

  • keyster

    Dearest Mikey Flubb:

    Let’s all work together on a horrifying societal trend that might inarguably be a common cause…

    OH, the wicked webs we weave.

    • DruidV

      Indeed, let’s truly discuss “gendercide”.

      I’ll bet my own hard earned dollars that there were exactly NO chants of “Mybodymymindmychoice!!!” coming from any of these conscripted Men who died, so that women like “mikey” could shove white ribbons at their fathers, brothers, sons and grandsons, continue to endlessly over-consume resources, embrace utter trash, slut-thug culture and mindless conformity and all while adapting to and adopting, the very socialism their Men were often fighting against.

      Disparity &
      Disconnect much, femmies?

    • Roderick1268

      Very unpleasant,
      may I ask do woman abort boys because they wanted a girl as well?
      And if she did, would there be a movement against it?

      The other question is (apart from automatically blaming fathers) I guess many are by choice single mothers.
      Why would a woman not want a daughter in this modern society?

      • Raven01
        “Abortion Statistics and Gender Preference
        I recently read an anti-abortion article stating that, since U.S. parents prefer boys, girls were aborted disproportionally more often. When I contacted the author, he couldn’t substantiate this statement, but assured me that he read it somewhere. What he probably read was that worldwide, far more females than males are aborted — but there is no evidence that this is true in the U.S. In fact, since the legalization of abortion, the birth ratio of girls has increased relative to boys. ”
        “Only 5% of abortions in this country are even potentially gender related, because only 5% occur when it is likely the mother knows the baby’s gender. I hasten to point out that “only 5%” of the 1.3 million abortions annually in the U.S. is still a staggering 65,000 babies, and the loss of each one of those little souls for any reason is a tragedy.

        The U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention tracks and publishes extensive data on abortion, but information about the gender of aborted babies does not seem to be available.
        The Birth Ratio of Girls Has Increased Since the Legalization of Abortion”
        Add in that parents adopting seek girls ahead of boys, and you pretty much have your answer right there.
        No one wants to say it but a small percentage of women seem to be following the Radfemhub’s directive to abort boys. Or it could be for their own reasons, like knowing a girl will have a better chance of succeeding as she can access her money, big brothers money and the money of any guy she gives a hummer to.

        • Raven01

          As an aside.
          There is contraception in the US isn’t there?
          1.3 million annual abortions for around 300 million people seems staggeringly high. And abortions only apply to about half of that 300 million. So, just under 1% of the female population aborts EVERY year?
          Not to open up the whole pros-cons of abortion thing but, damn doesn’t that speak volumes about American women in general?

          • keyster

            Just in case you didn’t know, we try to avoid the “A” word around these parts – – its editorial policy.

            The point of the video – if women are given the power of “gender selective abortion”, they seem to overwhelmingly prefer boys.

            I wanted our RadFem interloper to be aware of this “Fact”.

          • Raven01

            Priceless Key. You bring up the subject matter then say “we aren’t supposed to discuss it”
            I was answering an honest question from someone else. Injecting no claim that it was either right or wrong.
            I was and still am slightly shocked that with the plethora of options to prevent pregnancy in the 1st place that abort is still sought that frequently. And, I was kind of curious how the inability to plan ahead might relate as it could relate to so many women supporting anti-male laws and groups then wondering “where are all the men?”
            Really, on the numbers alone my head is still spinning.
            If 1% of all guys totalled a car every year… they’d be paying much higher auto insurance. Wait they do.
            Maybe healthcare should be funded the same way. Then they could really squeal about the pay gap.

      • keyster

        may I ask do woman abort boys because they wanted a girl as well?
        And if she did, would there be a movement against it?

        The point behind the women purposefully selecting AGAINST giving birth to a girl in favor of a boy, was to VEX the militiant pro-abortion feminists. It’s pretty brilliant IMO.

        Why would a woman not want a daughter in this modern society?

        For the same reason they’ve preferred boys since time immemorial – – for their eventual “utility”. There’s no greater love than a son for his mother…daughters not so much.

        • Keith

          Don’t forget Keyster, we are living in a “service economy” which gender will have the expectation of “service heaped upon them? Even consumer parents have figured this out.

    • Poester99

      oh, I see!
      “Their bodies their choice”, unless they make the wrong choice… O_o

      • DruidV

        That’s right Mister Man!!! Now, stop asking questions, grab this rifle and get into that trench!!!

        Don’t MAKE me go all white feather on yo’ azz!!!


        (Sorry, I couldn’t resist.)

        • Dr. F

          DruidV you stop it.

          Pull your head in or I will come over to your house and prong your chooks with my clanger and shave your dog and roll it in Vegemite and oats.

          “Mister Man” indeed. There is no such person as I checked so I am calling you out as a liar and stuff.

          (Not sorry, and I could resist.)

          • DruidV

          • Dr. F

            . .

        • DruidV

          Sorry you feel that I’m a liar Dr. F.

          I assure you my intentions here are legit and sincere.
          I have nothing but the utmost respect and regard for you and if you were offended by my sarcasm, then I sincerely apologize to you. No offense was intended.

          As far as my submission of an article is concerned, I need help with WP and that is the simple truth. It’s not exactly user friendly.

          A very respectful good day to you, sir.

          • Dr. F

            Mr Druid I was not offended in the slightest.

            I was merely rolling about in silly wordplay. My goodness good man, I thought your use of “Mister Man” to be funny as hell.

            Your posts always entertain me, this one was no different.

            It is incredibly difficult to offend me as I am the inverse version of paranoia and all the rest of it.

            Not finding “Mister Man” on google was testament to the idiotic character I was playing in my puckish post mate.

            Your article will come when it comes and I will be there with a Pom Pom dress dancing about for it.

            Well… In my mind anyway.

          • DruidV

            Sometimes it’s hard to tell if you’re genuinely pissed off, or just joshin’, F… No harm, no foul.

            So, does this mean you’ll help me submit my article then?


            (You have mail…)

          • Dr. F

            Yes matey.

            Contact me

    • http://none universe

      “War on baby girls”.
      (By women).

      Well well.
      Hoist by their own petard. Again. Another self-centered plot by vociferous design backfired.
      Of course they never saw it coming.

      Imagine the plot. Feminists danced in the streets (saw the newspaper photos 20 + years ago) when abortion became ‘legal’. I suppose now these “progressives” would want to spend even more leveraged public money to outlaw aborted females.

      Vid brings new life to an old term: (exclusively) “my body, (but) my choice” (on whom to murder. As long as my ass is saved) .

      Would the producers of above vid rather murder more unborn boys?
      Or if more girls are selectively murdered by abortion is the public inadvertantly saying that modern Western girls are such collective pains in the ass and so let’s not have them? If feminism and potential future feminists are an indicator of anything perhaps this is the case.
      Imagine the plot further – feminism at the root of miz-aww-jinny.

      Bask in all your glory, feminist abortion stumpers. Once more you cannot pin the blame for your messing of humanity upon men. It’s front and center – youze did it all (to) yourselves (And to the rest of us. But not to worry – we’re keeping track and score. We’re getting to know you individually).
      Just keep your grimy blood stained mitts off the public purse if the collective lot of you louses decide to right (muddle) your most recent solipsistly perceived wrong.

      These people are simply not fit to run anything except themselves to the ground. Tragically at others’ expense, nonetheless.

      Be gone, the whole sordid lot of you. You won’t be favourably missed.

      • Kimski

        “Or if more girls are selectively murdered by abortion is the public inadvertantly saying that modern Western girls are such collective pains in the ass and so let’s not have them?”

        “These people are simply not fit to run anything except themselves to the ground”

        I think you may be very very close to the truth on both accounts, and what’s more, I think they know it too, -deep down inside.

        • http://none universe


          If the above quoted is close to being the truth I’m sorry to hear it acknowledged by another as well as having spoken it myself.
          Those feminists who inhabit an adult female body truly are setting bad examples and giving womenkind a bad rap.

          If, as you say, that feminists deep-down realize their shortcomings it stands to my reasoning that they need a source of whom to point it out and lead them away from it all.
          Let the known collective crash hard and burn long first.

          • Kimski

            I’m basing my statement on personal experiences and observations, Universe.

            On several occasions I’ve heard it stated from women themselves, that guys are living an illusion if they think that girls are easier to deal with, while they grow up.
            I grew up with two sisters myself, and their ability to spread a toxic and malignant atmosphere in the home never ceased to amaze me.

            When it comes to the second quote, I only have to ask why they find it necessary to fight mens rights tooth and nail?
            People who are balanced and feeling good about who they are, don’t behave like that, when faced with quite reasonable demands.

            The conclusion can only be that they fear that the truth, which they are well aware of themselves, are going to be exposed, and they are fighting hard to keep it hidden, even to themselves.

            Feminism has basically offered them excuses for their own shortcomings instead of solutions, and it’s a damned shame for all parties involved.

  • keyster

    Fact – Women suffer the most with the deaths of their sons in war.

    And the fact that a woman suffers as the result of her son’s death, completely misses the fact that he’s actually DEAD, as in denied continuation of life, and she is not.

    Are the tears of a grieving woman worse than being 6 feet under in a flag draped coffin at Arlington Cemetery?

    The cognative dissonance of Ms. Clinton and the rest of you grrls regarding this one is astounding.

  • Roderick1268

    andybob she is saying if you do what your told, and focus entirely on her swirling kaleidoscope ever changing narcissism, you could be her nodding pet.
    Don’t do it buddy,

  • Astro

    Can you just fix us some sandwiches already?