Eavesdrop

An Overheard Conversation

A: How did you get here?

B: On Earth?

A: Yes.

B: My mother gave birth to me.

A: How did that happen?

B:  My father got her pregnant.

A: Are you sure?

B: It might have been a sperm bank donation and artificial insemination. Or did she use a surrogate mother? I don’t remember. Come to think of it, she never told me. Dad hasn’t been around, you know, since I was born.

A: I knew. How did you get here?

B: You already asked me that question.

A: I meant to this room where we are talking.

B: I took the elevator.

A  Who installed it?

B: I never knew them.

A: They were all men. How did you get here?

B: Same question? You mean, how did I get to this building?

A: Yes.

B: I came by subway, the A Train, after the ferry.

A: Who dug out the tunnels the train traveled through? Who laid the track? Who built the ferry?

B: Didn’t machines do the tunneling?

A: It was mostly manpower as they say.

B: I walked here from the Penn Station stop.

A: Who built the sidewalks and laid the asphalt on 34th Street? Who built the building? Five men died building the Empire State Building. The view is spectacular, isn’t it?

B: Where can I find their names?

A: I’m not sure. But it took 7,000,000 man hours to complete. How did you friend get here?

B: She came by car from Staten Island.

A: Who built the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge?

B: Men?

A: Yes. And three of them died working on it. Who built the expressways on Staten Island and Brooklyn? Who maintains them?

B: I think I know. My friend’s grandfather works for the City. During the winter, he uses the garbage truck he operates to remove snow from the streets. The rest of the time, he collects garbage. He lifts the bags of trash from the sidewalks and throws them into the truck.

A: How’s his back? By the way, who built the subway cars and the trucks? Who mined the ore used to make the metal for beams in the subway stations and the frames of the cars and trucks? Who forged the pieces? Who drilled for the oil that the gasoline used in the trucks was refined from? Who made the glass for the windshields and subway cars? Who pilots the tankers that get the crude here? Or the windows we’re looking through? Look! You can see the Chrysler Building. Who cut down the trees and milled the beams used in constructing this room? Who quarried the stone that was crushed to make concrete and cement? Who made the bricks?

B: I’m hungry.

A: Let’s order food from the deli down on the street. I’ll have a salad. You?

B: Corned beef on rye.

A: Who brought the food to the deli?

B: Men in trucks. They hauled it in, too, didn’t they?

A: Now you’re catching on. Who raised the cattle and butchered the steer for your corned beef? Who farmed the lettuce and carrots for my salad? Do you want milk?

B: Sounds good. I’ve given up coffee.

A: Who raised the dairy cattle for the milk? Who grew and harvested the coffee beans? (I love really good espresso.) I have a bottle of wine in my drawer. I feel like a sip. Who grew the grapes and harvested them? Who made the wine? Who hauled cases of wine from a truck to the liquor store?

B: All men?

A: All men.

B: Let me write some of this down.

A: Where did the paper come from?

B: Staples.

A: The pulp? Originally, loggers cut down trees. Who carried the carton of paper into your office over on Staten Island?

B: I’ll use my computer instead.

A: Who invented that thing? Who designed the programs that run it? And the internet. Your wifi gets signals from towers and satellites and a lot of it sent through cables. Who built those towers and got those satellites up there into orbit? Who laid the cable? Who installed your cable at home?

B: How did you get here?

A: I flew into JFK yesterday from Pittsburgh.

B: Who piloted the plane? Who got it ready for take off? Who serviced it on the ground?

A: Good questions. Who monitored the flights in air traffic control towers?

B: All men, I’m guessing.

A: Where’s your brother?

B:  Ah. He’s in Iraq. I really love him.

A: (Phone rings. A takes out his cell phone.) Ah. I can take this later. Who invented the cell phone?

B: I think I’ll pass on the sandwich. (B’s phone rings. She answers.) Great! See you in few minutes.

A: Really? I’ll give it to your friend when she gets back. I take it she’s on her way. Yes. She’s coming down from the observation deck.

B: We’re going to leave as soon as she gets here.

A: So where are you going? Back to the Island?

B: No. We have dates. Great guys, both of them. They’re looking for jobs. But they’re really great guys.

A: Have you told them that recently?

Miles Groth, PhD, Wagner College

mgroth@wagner.edu

718 390-3482

About Miles Groth Ph. D.

Miles Groth, Ph.D., is a professor of psychology at Wagner University in New York. He is also the founder of Thymos: Boyhood Journal and is a teacher and mentor to collage age young men.

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  • http://echosofwhisperspast.wordpress.com/ Capt. DaPoet

    Women have always done their best work on their backsides. Other then that they are as a rule are just plain lazy.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW

      Dude no group has a monopoly on lazy – men or women.

      • http://aleknovy.com/ AlekNovy

        The comment above would have had 80 positive votes and 2 negative votes on the spearhead. He must have missed the url, lol…

        • Poester99

          The Spearhead and A voice for men have A LOT of “cross-pollination” of ideas and shared readership. I can’t see how you can draw such a hard distinction. May you just like the owner of one blog more than the other.

          We all need to highlight/use the “hard” (so to speak) emotion evoking cases to effect change toward fairness and balance in ALL cases. Arguing to logic instead of emotion has its place but is next to useless in effecting change.

      • http://www.versifier59@wordpress.com Capt. DaPoet

        My policy is to hold females to the same exact standard that they hold men to which is why I’m unwilling to cut them any slack whatsoever.

        • http://aleknovy.com/ AlekNovy

          “My policy is to hold females to the same exact standard that they hold men to”

          What are the last 100 women you got to know? What statistical sample do you base your assesment of what 3.5 billion people do? Feminists online are not representative of women in general… get that. The loudest women are the ones you see. Its a faulty sample to base your opinion of women on the loudest ones.

          Most women do have an understanding for what men go through, willing to cut men some slack etc… It just requires looking at normal women, not spoiled princesses. Spend a year lurking women’s forums (not feminist, women’s you know with topics like make-up, family, getting boyfriends)… your attitude and perception of women will completely change. Your current perception is extremely distorted.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/rula42 RulaZ

    and who invented rock music?? ^^

    • http://musingsofaprohuman.blogspot.com/ Lady Catherine

      Teh menz! :-) Men were the pioneers of the genre, and there are countless men that I think deserve to be on the greatest rock artists of all time. Dimebag Darrell, Bob Dylan, Alice Cooper, Dio, and the Beatles, among others were all amazing and talented men. Rock is and will still be a male genre of music(even if I admire it and love it) :-)

      • Kimski

        -Actually it can be said much easier than that:
        ‘Name just one kick-a$$ axeslinger that is female???’

        • Lady Catherine

          Fair. I can think of a few talented female vocalists(like Christina Scabbia) but of no talented guitarists. There isn’t a female Slash or Dimebag Darrell.

        • Dusty

          The Great Kat. I’m not a fan of her music, but she can shred on guitar. She was a classically trained violinist but moved to guitar. Other than that, though, I can’t think of any other female guitarists that shred. Orianthi is actually a pretty good guitar player and songwriter in a pop sense.

    • http://aleknovy.com/ AlekNovy

      Speaking of which, I love rock-hippies (i’m one of them) who then go and do this capitalist hating stuff. My local rock club has pictures of castro, “fuck capitalism” stickers, heck even some “down with the patriarchy” stickers… And I’m thinking to myself… where did that electric guitar come from? Capitalism… Where did that amplifier come from? Capitalism/patriarchy…

      • Lady Catherine

        O.o I guess I’m waaaaay too patriarchal/capitalist for you. :-p

        Because:
        1. I love men too much. I don’t care if men are largely in control of the world. I is sad lolcat if teh menz are gone
        2. I love capitalism. I love money systems that don’t punish me for being a successful young lady lolcat. ^_^

  • http://huntingforarchetypes.blogspot.com Factory

    “Women have always done their best work on their backsides. Other then that they are as a rule are just plain lazy.”

    I think you sort of missed the point of the article…

  • http://echosofwhisperspast.wordpress.com/ Capt. DaPoet

    I don’t think so Factory as I merely pointed out what the average female is best at; considering that one rarely sees a female working in a dangerous environment that actually requires physical labor. Besides I’m well known for disagreeing with MRA’s since I have an independent mind and and not afraid to speak whats on my mind.

    • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

      Besides I’m well known for disagreeing with MRA’s since I have an independent mind and and not afraid to speak whats on my mind.

      And this implies what, that MRA’s don’t think independently and speak their own minds? Nah.

      I disagree with MRA’s all the time, too. But the point is not that I can be contrary, but whether I am making sense. You almost always make sense to me (at least since MND days) but I don’t think you supported your contention well enough with this one.

      Karma is right, there is no ownership of lazy by women. And the absence of women in dangerous jobs falls on men just as much as it does them.

      Do modern women tend to be opportunistic? Hell yes, especially since we keep creating opportunities for them.

      • http://www.versifier59@wordpress.com Capt. DaPoet

        Paul I only meant to imply that in regards to the MRM that I’m not and never will be a mindless follower and am willing to speak what’s on my mind. And amazingly while you and I have some serious disagreements in regards to some minor details I am in complete agreement with you on the big picture.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW

      Dude you are speaking of YOUR experiences with women.In YOUR part of the world. Which is fine, but ALL women?

      My Dentist, Doctor (GP), Vet, Orthodontist, My ex-wife – a nurse- are all women, all hard workers.

      Surely you are not suggesting we can split the workforce up into two distinct groups.

      1) The people in the dangerous jobs that actually work.

      2)The rest who get payed to do nothing.

      Well I have worked in the trades, done office work, at present I am doing a combination of both (electronics engineer) I see hard workers and lazy people all the time.Some of the men I have worked with/managed in the past 25 odd years have been more of a hindrance then the women.

      If you are going to make such a sweeping generalizations it would be best to quantify them.Not quantifying is well…..just plain lazy.

      Leave the unquantified sweeping generalizations for the feminists, it makes them look silly and we can use his silliness to our advantage.

      The article above has nothing to do with laziness, it was just a dialogue on the fact men are takern for granted and are disposable, that’s all no more or no less.

      ……………………………………………………………………………………….

      Actually a guy, called the rude guy has an interesting take on this, he is a socialist – I am NOT – but if you can get past his political views he has an interesting take on women, he is a little general but still interesting.

      Some excerpts from his website.

      Quote below from this audio file http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2006-04-03-12.mp3

      “Every time a conservative hears something she doesn’t like, she starts throwing out the words Marxism and Communism. Anything she doesn’t like, is labeled and dismissed, as Marxist or Communist. It’s not possible to have a conversation, with a person this stupid, and this brainwashed…And the same goes for LEFT WING bigots. Try and talk to a feminist about men’s issues, and he will insult you, and storm off. He won’t stay engaged. He’s discombobulated. You’ve fed him, a radioactive meatball, and he spits it out. He doesn’t even believe there ARE such things, as men’s issues. To him, to them, anything that isn’t female friendly, is Male Chauvinism. What broken souls.

      You wanna talk about Marxism and Male Chauvinism?…I don’t… I’m not a Marxist OR a male chauvinist. I will not use THEIR labels, to describe MY life. That’s what this show is about, discovering new words and new ideas, to forge our lives.

      I wanna S*IT on corporations and PEE on greedy capitalists, but that doesn’t make me a Marxist. And I want to enLARGE the souls of men. But that doesn’t make me a male chauvinist pig. ”

      Are men the oppressors of women, or are women the oppressors of men?

      A woman wakes up in the morning, in a house built by men. She starts the water to boil on a stove built by men, and sits at a chair and table, put there by men, to read a newspaper written, in part, by women…but printed and delivered by men…She nibbles some toast, made from grains, grown and harvested by men….whoops…Time to take a shower. She turns a faucet handle installed by a man, and lo and behold…out comes HOT water, delivered by a vastly complicated water system, built by men. She drives to work in a car built by men, on roads built by men, powered by petroleum, drilled and refined and delivered by men. She arrives at an office building built by men. Walks to her desk, fires up her computer, and glances out her window at a city… built by men…full of potential customers for her service business… Out of the corner of her eye, a table in the conference room, that seems awkwardly out of place, snags her attention. She strokes her ear lobe. At that moment, the janitor scoots by in the hallway.

      “Bob! Oh Bob. Could you PLEASE move that table, further into the corner. You’re such a dear.” She pins him, with a delectable, and utterly phony smile. Bob, oblivious to the cheapness of the words, and falseness of the smile…thrilled to get any attention at all, from such an attractive person…pitches right in. And as he lugs one corner of the heavy table, across the carpet, she EXhales a comfortable sigh. Her day, has begun.

      She will spend the next 8 to 10 hours telling OTHER people, what to do. That’s HER understanding of work. This creature, who has NO idea WHERE things come from, HOW they are made, and has not the slightest knowledge, about HOW the world works, has been put in CHARGE of it…because there is really nothing else, of any specific value, she COULD be doing.

      If she lived in a world built by women, she would be sitting in a tent, watching her breath in front of her face, stitching animal hides. But…she lives in a world BUILT, almost ENTIRELY, by men…and, AMAZINGLY, she has NOT the SLIGHTEST appreciation, or GRATITUDE for that fact. She never even stops to THINK about it. Never stops to think, that if all the things men make and do, were MAGICALLY removed, right now she would plodding through a MUDDY SWAMP, looking for red-wing blackbird eggs.

      She thinks the world is made out of proper grammar, and attractive clothing, and polite conversation, and correct opinions…instead of rivets and concrete and copper and petroleum. From the day she picked up her first teaspoon, she has been learning how to manipulate the things men provide, as if they were put in front of her by God or Mother Nature. She has NO IDEA what men actually do. Yet, according to her, and the media she consumes, men are assholes.

      How long do you think this is gonna last?

      When I think of the men…the lumberjacks, and truck drivers, and paper mill workers, and printers, and deliverymen… the men who have to get up early, every morning, and do VERY hard jobs, so that Ellen Goodman, and Maureen Dowd, and other feminist blowhards, can sit in their climate controlled offices, shitting out editorials about what assholes, men are…when I think of those women, walking on the backs of all those men, I want to start BOMBING things. Let’s bomb them all the way back to the unheated tent, and the muddy swamp, and see what they complain about THEN. MAYBE they’ll start writing editorials, about how women should start doing, REAL work. Not just OFFICE WORK.

      Here are the facts:

      19 out of 20 people who die on the job, are men.
      4 out of 5 suicides, are men.
      85% of the homeless, are men.
      Women live seven years longer, than men.
      65% of American’s wealth, is owned by women, says Forbes Magazine.
      Men are not regarded as equal parents to their children.
      Men are drafted in time of war, and women are not.

      Given these facts, how could anyone with half a brain, possibly believe that men are the oppressors of women.

      Now hear this… Men are now, and always have been, the protectors and providers for women… men are NOT NOW, and NEVER HAVE been, the OPPressors of women. The simple proof of that being, that women are not now, and never have been, OPPRESSED. It’s all uh preposterous lie.

      Nowhere in history do the oppressed, live longer, and have more money, than their oppressors. If 19 out of 20 people who died on the job were women, if four out of five suicides were women, if 85% of the homeless were women, we would have a FEDERAL task force investigating the outrage. But they’re just men…so no one cares.

      The bottom line is, we have the whole gender/power thing completely backwards.

      Let’s hear what Leo Tolstoy said about it, in the late 1800s:

      (quote) “I have wondered why so many intelligent and good men live so blindly and badly. The reason lies in the POWER, women have, OVER them. They let themselves be carried along by the current, because that is what their wives and mistresses want. The WHOLE story is told in BED.”(unquote)

      Any guy knows, it’s no different today.

      OK, I’m gonna read some excerpts from the Introduction, to What Men Know That Women Don’t. Here we go:

      What most men want to know is: How come we live in a society, that APPEARS to be run by men, but FEELS like it’s run by women? The answer is pretty simple. The men who run modern society – the politicians, businessmen, educators and priests – are men who THINK, like women. They are men who espouse and advance female values. WHY do they do this?…Because women have more purchasing power, more voting power, and more cultural power, than men. Women control the marketplace, the polling place, and the content of our schools, churches and media. The “secret of success” of the modern, “successful” man, is that he sold his soul to women, and female values. Our society is being run by men, who think and act, like women. That’s why we have so many problems. The Patriarchy is, in fact, a Matriarchy. Female VALUES rule.

      George W Bush is not a man’s man, he is a woman’s man. Bill Clinton is not a man’s man, he is a woman’s man. They are both charming, seductive, boyish, winsome…and…insincere, deceptive and manipulative. These are NOT John Wayne types. NOT the strong silent types. THESE are the FLAMBOYANT, SHALLOW types. FEMINIZED men. Not men, raised by men. But men, raised by women. Women’s men.

      Female values rule…. Actually, female MEMES rule. The Rude Guy talked about memes on show number 9. Memes are thought-modules that spread like viruses from brain to brain. So…a man standing at a podium, or writing a magazine article, saying that MEN are the oppressors of women…even though he is TECHnically uh man…he is spreading FEMALE memes. He is disseminating FEMALE values, and prejudices, and a FEMALE worldview. This is what’s going on throughout our society. The government, schools, businesses, churches, everything…though they SEEM to be run by men… are molded, and powered, by female memes. Female values. Female ways of looking at…and administering, life.

      That’s why our young men are joining gangs. The whole goddam world is feminized, and they can’t STAND it, and they CAN’T fit in.

      After some 200 radio shows, a dozen TV shows, and twenty print articles, I’ve been forced to hone my ramblings down to some two-minute soundbites. My simple thesis is this:

      Feminists are corporate whores.

      For over 30 years feminists have demonized men, undermined the family, and ridiculed religion. Male values, family values and religious values have been marginalized, made fun of, dismissed as passé. In the vacuum created by the hemorrhage, of these historically cardinal values, corporations rushed in, and flooded our brains with THEIR core values: wealth, celebrity, and the “free trade” smorgasbord of things to buy. But since, as their root strategy, corporations design themselves, to appeal to the SHOPPING compulsions of women…what we are left with, is an incestuous, self-perpetuating, cycle of greed. Feminists feed corporations, and corporations feed feminists. Feminists don’t care if corporations ship our jobs overseas. They only care if there are equal numbers of women, ON the boards of directors, OF the companies, that are shipping the JOBS, overSEAS. Feminism is not uh grassroots movement of oppressed women. It’s uh multi-billion dollar a year “INFORMATION INDUSTRY”, that has infected our schools, government, factories and families, with high-paid workers, oozing an academic PUS, of wrong “facts”, misplaced priorities, bad ideas and self-righteous rhetoric.

      • Nancy

        Zubaty rules!

    • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

      I’ve worked in male dominated industries all my life. I have noticed that some women actually put in extra effort to compensate. The workplace is a bit different than everyday life, lazy people are universally despised by management and coworkers and don’t get special treatment.

      Women generally choose office jobs and such. I can’t fault them because I made the same choice in life when I decided that I prefer a 9-5 office job rather than working in the mines or construction.

      Aside from employment, women are really good at manipulating men to do all of the labor intensive and dirty work, but that is partially the fault of men who participate and allow them a privileged status in life.

    • Aimos

      The women I work with are the hardest workers I have known. One of them used to do my job, and all the responsibilities she had compared to me, the hours she worked. She puts me to shame! Women can be very industrious individuals when they apply themselves. They contribute a lot to society, just in a different way than men. We compliment each other.

  • Lovekraft

    Men have this concept of knowing one’s place. Those who don’t learn eventually. Growing up, it is a great tool in personal development, so that the right people go into the right direction, so to speak.

    Is this lacking in women? I’m not sure, but it does seem to me that should a man try to mention a woman’s place, he is met with vitriol and ridicule.

    So, the result is a general self-censorship of this concept, to where most workplaces that are heavily feminized are basket cases of inefficiency and resentment, because no one is able to put anyone else in their place. There is a lot of childish banter and dwelling on the mundane, which for a capitalist society, spells disaster.

    Oh, if only we were to instill the concept of putting one in their place into the workplace.

    Why this is on topic: because the West has lost that dynamic creativity spoken of in the article. We seem to be obsessed with the overpaid athletes, American Idol and GaGas.

    • http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

      I just don’t understand the obscure reference to “knowing one’s place”. I expect the same from women that I expect from myself.

      I don’t know my place, except that it is whatever I choose for myself.

      • Lovekraft

        Society places external expectations upon ourselves, usually imposed by gov’t and its elites. In my generation’s case, it was Political Correctness, Affirmative Action, Pro-Choice, multicult etc etc. These are contrary to male instinct which, incidentally is a delicate balance to manage, since we are by nature the more aggressive sex.

        So, for lack of a better term, I stated that PC has upturned the notion of ‘knowing one’s place’ to the point where the hard-working, sensible and rational take a back seat to the feminists, the militant gays, and other fringe exercises.

        Whether we can ever revert to instilling the notion of proper attitudes in places like the workplace is anyone’s guess, but as our capitalist system feels under greater pressure than ever, now is the time to sweep away so much of the irrelevant, counter-productive (read: bleeding heart, getting along) attitudes in favor of male competitiveness and drive.

        Hope this helps.

        • John A

          I’d rather call it accepting one’s responsibilities. “Knowing one’s place”, to me, means accepting someone else’s role and someone else’s values. Accepting one’s responsibilities means you choose your way in life and take the consequences of your actions. (Failure is a possible consequence)

          That means that if a person does a job they do what is required for that job and judged on their performance. For a woman, like a man, that means that if they want to achieve in a difficult or dangerous job they need to take the physical and financial risks and accept that they will have to make sacrifices at home. Either they will have no children or will have to pay someone to bring them up.

          BTW Feminist fallacy #n+1 -> “housework is unpaid” NO! it is not and many housewives get the free use of a car as well. Housework is untaxed – that is all.

  • KARMA MRA MGTOW

    Hmm I seen this in both genders.Still I agree.

  • http://www.versifier59@wordpress.com Capt. DaPoet

    Hello Paul,

    I don’t always claim to be right and I don’t mind those who disagree with me as long as their argument and or POV can be logically sustained. As far as females are concerned and having been married for 29yrs plus I find the average female to at best redundant and unnecessary.

    I don’t need a female for sex since my body came equipped with a pair of hands and my mind with an extremely over active imagination. Don’t believe me then check out the poems, essays and short stories posted on my blog.

    I don’t need a female to cook my food or boil my eggs as I prepare the majority of my own meals anyway and I can buy boiled eggs already peeled and ready to eat at the grocery store.

    I don’t need a female to make up my bed or clean up my mess as I can do that myself and if I wasn’t married and/or didn’t want to do these chores I most likely would live in a motel room where maid service is part of the service.

    Nor do I need a female for companionship as I have the best friend and lover a man could ever have, which is the computer that sits upon my desk, and I am quite capable of entertaining myself as well. And I am also enjoying the e reader my Son {the best thing that has come out of my marriage so far} gave me for Christmas.

    Sadly the most important job women used to do {namely bearing and nurturing their children while caring for their husbands and homes which they were doing while their husbands went out and bore the risks of the dangerous jobs mentioned in the above article} the majority of females have abandoned in the vain search for self fulfillment.

    So it is up to my wife and her sister’s to convince me of their worth and not the other way around since I have already established my own worth.

    And the oldest profession is after all prostitution which generally as a rule is a female working on her backside and/or her knees.

    • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

      Thumbs up. but I still think you are seeing women in a vacuum and not considering male complicity in all of this.

      How many men in the past said “No wife of mine is going to work”?

      How many “men” continue the tired old tradition of leading with their wallets. I am as frustrated and often disgusted with modern women as any man, but I can’t force myself to ignore that lazy gold diggers, just like misogynists, are created by a culture of men and women working together dysfunctionally.

      • Dusty

        Agreed. When a man doesn’t allow his wife to work, he’s also doing himself no favors. First, she’ll think she missed out on something. And second, when he has a bad time of it at work, she won’t understand what he’s going through, because she has no point of reference.

      • http://aleknovy.com/ AlekNovy

        “”How many men in the past said “No wife of mine is going to work”?

        How many “men” continue the tired old tradition of leading with their wallets.””

        There’s an awesome point to be made when women whine about how much of a jerk the average guy is (or whatever lame complaint)… You can simply point out that the average male traits were shaped through natural selection, and if most men are a certain way, its because women have decided to fuck guys with these traits, and not guys without these traits.

        There’s a counter-point here. It also means that we as men have some responsibility in how women turn out too. In other words, if there are a lot of bitchy women in the general population, it means there are guys who put up with it and ask out, marry and otherwise reward that behaviour.

        I don’t buy the excuse that a woman was an angel and after 20 years of marriage turned out to be a witch… Point is, as long as men bend over backwards for pussy, even if it comes attached to an insane personality, we as men bear responsibility for the procreation of the “insane woman” genes.

        So it is a responsibility of men to not give any attention to, hire, work with, have sex with, or even so much as give sexual validation (glances) to women who’s traits we don’t approve of. Many men complain of bitchy behaviour, and then go on to pursue the exact same women whom they complain of.

        • Poester99

          Oooo, I have the perfect example of what you are saying.
          This Billy Joel song, is exhibit A, it always pissed me off:

          She can kill with a smile
          She can wound with her eyes
          She can ruin your faith with her casual lies
          And she only reveals what she wants you to see
          She hides like a child,
          But she’s always a woman to me

          She can lead you to love
          She can take you or leave you
          She can ask for the truth
          But she’ll never believe you
          And she’ll take what you give her, as long as it’s free
          Yeah, she steals like a thief
          But she’s always a woman to me

          CHORUS:
          Oh–she takes care of herself
          She can wait if she wants
          She’s ahead of her time
          Oh–and she never gives out
          And she never gives in
          She just changes her mind

          And she’ll promise you more
          Than the Garden of Eden
          Then she’ll carelessly cut you
          And laugh while you’re bleedin’
          But she’ll bring out the best
          And the worst you can be
          Blame it all on yourself
          Cause she’s always a woman to me
          –Mhmm–

          Bridge

          CHORUS:
          Oh–she takes care of herself
          She can wait if she wants
          She’s ahead of her time
          Oh–and she never gives out
          And she never gives in
          She just changes her mind

          She is frequently kind
          And she’s suddenly cruel
          She can do as she pleases
          She’s nobody’s fool
          And she can’t be convicted
          She’s earned her degree
          And the most she will do
          Is throw shadows at you
          But she’s always a woman to me
          –Mhmm–

          Read some of the comments here too, some of the guys “get it”:
          http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/She%27s-Always-A-Woman-lyrics-Billy-Joel/98F5BA02E8B085A548256870001B6C6D

      • http://www.versifier59@wordpress.com Capt. DaPoet

        Paul I am well aware of male complicity and indeed work with men who constantly ridicule me whenever I express my opinions and try to discuss these issues with them. This is one of reasons I have such a hard time being willing to fight on behalf of these worthless bozos.

        Having grown up as a latchkey child myself I didn’t want my wife to have to go to work until my own son was at least in high school but she had other plans. Which is one of the things that helped to open up my own eyes in regards to the modern day female which is why I no longer advocate marriage as a viable option for men.

      • http://www.versifier59.wordpress.com Capt. DaPoet

        @ Paul

        Here is a sampling of poems in which I take men to task.

        Spineless Cowards

        When it comes to acting like men
        conservatives and republicans
        are as spineless as a jellyfish
        just as limp wristed as the gays
        they love to hate and bash
        for a sniff of a woman’s wang
        they willingly betray their brothers
        prostrate themselves upon the ground
        wiggle like the snakes they are
        instead of acting like a real man
        like a doormat they let women
        walk all over their sorry carcass
        wipe their dirty feet upon their backs
        instead of standing up to women
        by saying no and really mean it
        then to prove to one and all
        that they are indeed men after all
        someone else’s children
        they send off to fight their war
        yet a coward is who they really are

        Manginas

        There is a blight, an outright plague
        of locusts who eat anything in sight
        spreading across this once great land
        a vicious group known as manginas
        who intentionally betray their brothers
        by taking the side of the feminine gender
        in order to get laid and a taste of wang
        upon their sorry worthless backsides
        they proudly wear like a badge of honor
        their significant others dirty footprints
        some are creepy lawyers and judges
        while others are two faced politicians
        still others are journalists or writers
        who use their words to falsely accuse
        condemn and judge innocent men
        of the very crimes they themselves
        are so eager to commit against
        the weaker members of their gender
        the one thing they all have in common
        is that they are yellow bellied cowards
        who betray and prey upon their brothers
        who don’t have the money or connections
        to resist their oft illegal depredations
        for thirty pieces of silver and some wang
        they intentionally rape their brothers

        Man or Wuss

        Are you a man or a cowardly wuss
        who runs in fright
        to appease the women in your life
        whenever they get angry
        every time they pitch a temper tantrum
        throw a hissy fit
        do you stand your ground like a man
        tell your wife or daughter
        no and actually mean it-the way things are
        or do you cave in
        hoping that she’ll give you some nookie
        between the sheets
        do you find yourself bullying your brothers
        yet lose your backbone
        ly down on the floor like a spineless doormat
        at your wife’s every command
        my friend if indeed this is how you behave
        a man you truly aren’t but a
        wuss whose balls reside in his wife’s purse
        is who you’ll always chose to be
        until you decide to stand up tall and proud
        grow a pair of real testicles
        by telling each and every woman in your life
        what they need to hear
        instead of taking their crap like a coward

        The Average Male

        When it comes to women
        the average male
        is an all too willing sucker
        a naive schlemiel
        just begging to be fleeced
        by a con artist
        twisted around the pinky
        finger of his squaw
        she leads him round about
        like a gelded bull
        with a steel ring hanging
        down from his nose
        commanding him to heel
        like a lil doggie
        contented to wear a leash

        All Four Poems Copyright by Captain DaPoet 2011 all rights reserved.

  • KARMA MRA MGTOW

    “So it is up to my wife and her sister’s to convince me of their worth and not the other way around since I have already established my own worth. ”

    This should apply to every human on the planet. :)

    Self-worth must come from inside.

  • http://www.versifier59@wordpress.com Capt. DaPoet

    @ KARMA MRA MGTOW

    Re: This should apply to every human on the planet.
    ________________

    I agree yet in our society men have to prove themselves on a daily basis while all a female has to do is show up and look pretty.

    • KARMA MRA MGTOW

      Umm not always, but it happens we have all seen it.

    • John A

      “all a female has to do is show up and look pretty”
      This is not so easy as they get older.

      • Dusty

        That’s when they start complaining about how women are judged only by their looks. They have no problem using their looks until they lose them. :)

        • http://www.versifier59@wordpress.com Capt. DaPoet

          Feminized males bow down to young pretty females in order to get in their pants while feminized males bow down to older females in order to get into their daughters pants.

          • John A

            The sad part is that so many men will sell their dignity, not to get laid, but just for a hint of approval from a woman they don’t know and will never meet again.

    • http://aleknovy.com/ AlekNovy

      You’re doing the same sampling error that feminazis do. They ignore 99% of men and focus on just the school jocks and millionaires to say “there… men have it easy”.

      Same with you assuming “all women have to do is show up and look pretty”. You’re forgetting most women don’t even have the ability to look pretty, because well, you don’t even notice they exist :D You’re performing a sampling error.

      I would say they do have it easier in sum, yes… In that a lot more women can achieve “pretty” than men can become celebrities or millionaires, but its very fallacious to say “women” just have to show up and look pretty… at least for a majority.

  • KARMA MRA MGTOW

    Ok people my last cut and paste from the rude guys website, sorry about the word count.

    Text below edited from audio file @ http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2008-02-01-48.mp3

    [The Cultural Devastation of American Women by Nancy Levant]

    This is The Rude Guy. Rich Zubaty. [RG voice] The 3000 pound mosquito of LOVE. Wiggling worm on the Wheel of Karma. Escapee from political feminism. [RZ voice]Welcoming you back to the Reality Cult, the Toolbox of Truth, where we hammer together a future, made out of ideas, not people� Ideas. Not ideologies, not opinions� Ideas.

    This show�s gonna be a book report, on the book, by Nancy Levant called: The Cultural Devastation of American Women: (subtitled) the strange and frightening decline of the American female (RG voice: and her DREADful timing)

    Nancy Levant is an American. I never heard of her, or her book, before I ran across it at the home of my friend Martin Harvey, in Cambridge England. It was sitting on his bookshelf, right next to two of my own books� so I plucked it right down. Thank GOODness for amazon.co.uk.

    Nancy Levant�s a mother and grandmother. But more importantly, she has been a daycare provider in her home, in Michigan, for 13 years. And out of the mouths of her daycare children, and through the attitudes and actions of their mothers, did Nancy Levant come to be reVOLTed by modern American women.

    I�m going to do little more than quote from her book, and take an occasional pot shot, from the hip. But it�s clear to me that if I, as a man, said the things I am about to READ to you, from HER book, someone would put plutonium in my soup.

    So here we go.

    Page 19� Concerning food:

    Meals are leaving the consciousness of the American female. Half of the children I have cared for, over the past 13 years, were either underfed� or overfed on drive-thru food� HALF!!! I have seen hundreds of children who have never eaten vegetables, and hundreds more who eat pizza, Taco Bell, McDonalds, or macaroni and cheese, every� single� night. They are bundled through the door with baggies of the previous night�s COLD fries, and chips, and Cheetos and M&Ms. I have seen one hundred pound 4-year-olds, and 25 pound 4-year-olds. I�ve had babies and toddlers vomit apple juice and milk, because they only drink carbonated soda. I�ve seen kids who beg for food the INSTANT their parents leave my house. Nowadays the best case scenario is if they arrive at my house having eaten cold cereal. Bacon? Eggs? Oatmeal? Forget it. Soups and sandwiches, and fruits for lunch? No way. Mom�s not around for lunch. She�s at work, or in school, or spa-ing.

    Sez me: The modern female battle cry of �I don�t cook!� is easily extrapolated into: �And my kids don�t eat properly.�

    Sez Nancy Levant: There are a lot of mothers out there who starve their kids � a lot of them!

    Poorly fed children not only CAN�t learn, but won�t. Their brains want to rest and shut off� coast. How do I explain this to college educated career moms???? HOW?

    P 32: Concerning DAD:

    Here�s what Nancy�s day care kids have to say about dad:

    �My dad�s stupid.�
    �My dad doesn�t like to be with us.�
    �My dad doesn�t like it at home.�
    �My dad is a control freak.�
    �My dad wants to STEAL me.�
    �I�m not allowed to talk to dad when he�s working.�
    �I�m not allowed to talk to dad when he�s watching TV.�
    �Dad never does anything.�
    �I don�t know what dad does.�
    �Dad never talks to mom.�
    �Dad likes his car better than us.�
    �Dad never takes me anywhere.�
    �Dad doesn�t like to sit with mom.�
    �Dad likes his computer more than mom.�

    Sez Nancy Levant: Do you think three, four and five year olds come up with this on their own?� or do you think they HEARD this from someone?

    Find this in full below.

    http://www.therudeguy.com/?p=134

    Audio version @ http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2008-02-01-48.mp3

    Four other interesting audio files below.

    The Rude Guy (Maui) Podcast #4 February 6, 2006

    What IS it�with the fragile FEMALE ego?�The fragile FEMALE ego. audio below

    http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2006-02-06-4.mp3

    ………………………………………………………………………..
    The Rude Guy (Maui) Podcast #3 January 30, 2006
    http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2006-01-30-3.mp3

    ………………………………………………………………..
    The Rude Guy (Maui) Podcast #12 April 3, 2006
    http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2006-04-03-12.mp3

    ………………………………………………………………….
    The Rude Guy (Maui) Podcast #13 April 10, 2006
    http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2006-04-10-13.mp3

    • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

      LOL, it is a real good idea to save these blocks of text in a word document as an html file before posting. :)

      • John A

        What’s the preview button for?

        • KARMA MRA MGTOW

          It does not show on preview. :)

          Oh well.Shame it would have been a good one! Next time I will just type it or save it as a word file.

  • KARMA MRA MGTOW

    Ok people my last cut and paste from the rude guys website, sorry about the word count.

    Text below edited from audio file @ http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2008-02-01-48.mp3

    [The Cultural Devastation of American Women by Nancy Levant]

    This is The Rude Guy. Rich Zubaty. [RG voice] The 3000 pound mosquito of LOVE. Wiggling worm on the Wheel of Karma. Escapee from political feminism. [RZ voice]Welcoming you back to the Reality Cult, the Toolbox of Truth, where we hammer together a future, made out of ideas, not people; Ideas. Not ideologies, not opinions; Ideas.

    This show’s gonna be a book report, on the book, by Nancy Levant called: The Cultural Devastation of American Women: (subtitled) the strange and frightening decline of the American female (RG voice: and her DREADful timing)

    Nancy Levant is an American. I never heard of her, or her book, before I ran across it at the home of my friend Martin Harvey, in Cambridge England. It was sitting on his bookshelf, right next to two of my own books; so I plucked it right down. Thank GOODness for amazon.co.uk.

    Nancy Levant’s a mother and grandmother. But more importantly, she has been a daycare provider in her home, in Michigan, for 13 years. And out of the mouths of her daycare children, and through the attitudes and actions of their mothers, did Nancy Levant come to be reVOLTed by modern American women.

    I’m going to do little more than quote from her book, and take an occasional pot shot, from the hip. But it’s clear to me that if I, as a man, said the things I am about to READ to you, from HER book, someone would put plutonium in my soup.

    So here we go.

    Page 19- Concerning food:

    Meals are leaving the consciousness of the American female. Half of the children I have cared for, over the past 13 years, were either underfed or overfed on drive-thru food; HALF!!! I have seen hundreds of children who have never eaten vegetables, and hundreds more who eat pizza, Taco Bell, McDonalds, or macaroni and cheese, every� single� night. They are bundled through the door with baggies of the previous night�s COLD fries, and chips, and Cheetos and M&Ms. I have seen one hundred pound 4-year-olds, and 25 pound 4-year-olds. I�ve had babies and toddlers vomit apple juice and milk, because they only drink carbonated soda. I�ve seen kids who beg for food the INSTANT their parents leave my house. Nowadays the best case scenario is if they arrive at my house having eaten cold cereal. Bacon? Eggs? Oatmeal? Forget it. Soups and sandwiches, and fruits for lunch? No way. Mom�s not around for lunch. She�s at work, or in school, or spa-ing.

    Sez me: The modern female battle cry of �I don�t cook!� is easily extrapolated into: �And my kids don�t eat properly.�

    Sez Nancy Levant: There are a lot of mothers out there who starve their kids � a lot of them!

    Poorly fed children not only CAN�t learn, but won�t. Their brains want to rest and shut off� coast. How do I explain this to college educated career moms???? HOW?

    P 32: Concerning DAD:

    Here�s what Nancy�s day care kids have to say about dad:

    �My dad�s stupid.�
    �My dad doesn�t like to be with us.�
    �My dad doesn�t like it at home.�
    �My dad is a control freak.�
    �My dad wants to STEAL me.�
    �I�m not allowed to talk to dad when he�s working.�
    �I�m not allowed to talk to dad when he�s watching TV.�
    �Dad never does anything.�
    �I don�t know what dad does.�
    �Dad never talks to mom.�
    �Dad likes his car better than us.�
    �Dad never takes me anywhere.�
    �Dad doesn�t like to sit with mom.�
    �Dad likes his computer more than mom.�

    Sez Nancy Levant: Do you think three, four and five year olds come up with this on their own?� or do you think they HEARD this from someone?

    Find this in full below.

    http://www.therudeguy.com/?p=134

    Audio version @ http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2008-02-01-48.mp3

    Four other interesting audio files below.

    The Rude Guy (Maui) Podcast #4 February 6, 2006

    What IS it�with the fragile FEMALE ego?�The fragile FEMALE ego. audio below

    http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2006-02-06-4.mp3

    ………………………………………………………………………..
    The Rude Guy (Maui) Podcast #3 January 30, 2006
    http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2006-01-30-3.mp3

    ………………………………………………………………..
    The Rude Guy (Maui) Podcast #12 April 3, 2006
    http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2006-04-03-12.mp3

    ………………………………………………………………….
    The Rude Guy (Maui) Podcast #13 April 10, 2006
    http://www.therudeguy.com/audio/The_Rude_Guy-2006-04-10-13.mp3

    KARMA MRA MGTOW
    January 11th, 2011 – 02:35 is a stuff up – my bad – Paul can ie be deleted.

  • Elder Swami

    I think this article is more about the little respect or gratitude given to men despite the fact we hold this society up! Without the jobs that physically produce something there is no civilization.
    Maslow’s hierarchy of human needs is in this order: Physiological, Safety, Love, Esteem, Self actualization. The two first stages (physiological and Safety) encompass food, water, shelter and protection, these things are fulfilled by male dominated jobs, the remaining jobs are just luxuries.
    How can people then go and say that we are increasingly unnecessary?

    • Aimos

      Haha!! Yeah exactly!!!

      Have you heard that joke about the mother who decided to take the day off? It’s a joke with a moral not to take your wife/women for granted because of everything they do around the home.

      What if the father decided not to go to work? What if men decided life on the Savanna like our prehistoric ancestors is preferable to being unappreciated and demonized? Women could say goodbye to their rights and freedoms men worked so hard to prop up for them.

    • The White Rider

      “Sex” is also part of that physiological bit in Maslow’s hierarchy if you’ll notice and there’s quite a bit of sexual impoverishment among men now as well.

      • Matthew Graybosch

        Only among men who think there’s something wrong with masturbating, and they can go fuck themselves.

  • Keyster

    Surely women must have been involved in all those things at some point. Accounting or maybe secretarial duties? Making sandwiches for lunch?
    Men did all the hard work of designing and dangerous work of building, but women had paper cuts, bosses sexually harrasing them and white-out fumes to contend with. I know its not quite the same, but they are the weaker sex after all.

  • Tom

    Damning Arab Take on the American Male:
    http://www.henrymakow.com/the_emasculated_american_male.html

  • concujak

    Excellent Piece ! Just posted the link on my facebook for all to see !

  • concujak

    Very nice Piece !

  • http://gynotheory.blogspot.com Adam Kostakis

    For the attention of Mr Elam:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/11/rosin.ted.women.men/index.html?hpt=Sbin

    Is Hanna Rosin backpedaling? Consider the title of her latest piece – “Are women leaving men behind?” Rather less radical than “The End of Men (implied full stop),” wouldn’t you say?

    She acknowledges that people by and large hate her, and scales back the rhetoric accordingly.

    “I can’t help but notice that while most of the other TED talks shown on the TED website draw comments of “inspiring” or “courageous” or “beautiful,” mine is labeled … “obnoxious.””

    “This is not feminist gloating. It’s not any kind of value judgment. It just is.”

    “Many of the changes happening are obviously beneficial to women: They have more economic freedom and power than ever. But many of the changes are not all that positive for women. With more freedom and power comes the burden of managing, heading households alone, being ever more perfect. And the stresses show up in reports of increased rates of unhappiness, alcoholism and even violence among women.”

    “I have a father, a brother and a husband I love, not to mention innumerable male friends and colleagues. Most importantly I have two darling sons. I talk about the “end of men” not to make them feel hopeless and doomed to failure, but to open their eyes to the idea that gender roles are more fluid than ever, and that they do not have to fill some particular expectation. If you are prepared for it, then the end of a particular kind of macho can be a relief, not a curse.”

    “You may be the boss, but you’ll get nowhere if you don’t bring the men up with you.”

    • Dusty

      I still can’t help but think that she’s just putting words in men’s mouths in order to silence them. The MRM should be about men speaking for themselves.

      • Dusty

        There’s just this underlying tone that says “Get used to it, guys. We run the show now.” What she seems to be saying is that women should make the transition from “superior” to inferior as easy as possible for men. I put superior in scare quotes because it’s arguable that, aside from an elite few, we’ve never really been in the superior position.

    • John A

      Hanna rosin is a good resource for the MRM. Yes, she is offensive, but she does construct a good argument for the end of affirmative action(for women at least).

    • Keyster

      “You may be the boss, but you’ll get nowhere if you don’t bring the men up with you.”

      Ain’t gonna happen cupcake.
      You can all pretend women are equal to men, but women will NEVER pretend men are kitchen bitches and will ALWAYS vote for this with their choice of mates. I hope your darling sons learn this fact early in life. Women don’t like men who are “more fluid” in their “gender roles”.

    • http://avoiceformen.com Paul Elam

      I think she is definitely back peddling. Her presentation and writings are so over the top misandric that it even inspired some people to speculate that she was abusing her children with hateful ideology and gloating the current miseries that are befalling men and boys.

      And I think it is another sign, Mr. Kostakis, of an unacknowledged influence of the manosphere.

      In my recent exchanges with the pinheads of the men’s studies group I have noticed a slight amount of backpedaling there, too. They have little choice in the matter.

      I can almost feel it in the air. There is a hint that male bashing is on its way out, and that those that participate in it on the level of Rosin, Kimmel and the rest, will feel the backlash from it and learn to be more careful to camouflage their ideas and intentions.

      I think that backlash comes from us and resonates further across the culture than most of us imagine, or is certainly beginning to.

      I think the next opportunity she presents, I will write and article and dog her even harder. We can’t cut these people ANY slack. We have to put them down, and then kick them when they are down.

      And then kick them again.

      • The Man On The Street

        Oh you evil vile violent male you!

        /sarcasm

        TMOTS

      • Matthew Graybosch

        Don’t just kick them. Grab a sledgehammer and beat ‘em into the ground.