half face of a sinister young man with hair back

A Flood of bad intent

During the course of managing this website I have had exchanges with a few prominent gender advocates that carry an ideological banner. Recently, we got a curious visit from Michael Flood, a sociologist and one of the more strident proponents of feminism in Australia. I say curious because his visit just happened to come on the same exact day that Dr. Greg Canning and myself were interviewed by Guy Mosel, a former men’s magazine (now defunct) editor. Yes, the kind with comely, big chested girls on the cover. He now writes freelance and is doing a piece on the men’s movement for the Weekend Magazine section of the Sydney Morning Herald. The article is due out the weekend of November 24.

I don’t know for sure, but this hardly seems like a coincidence. We will know for sure when the article comes out. My guess is Mosel will present Flood as an expert on the MRM or on masculinity, which he is neither, and us, of course, as regressive sexists, which of course we aren’t. If that happens, there will also be a great deal about Michael Flood of which Mosel will be loath to inform his readers.

That’s OK. We will.

Back to the matter at hand, Flood showed up here complaining that I did not have my facts straight[1] in a 15 month old article I wrote involving some very harsh – read honest – critique of his work.

My sources on the piece were linked, but there is a possibility that one source had some inaccurate information, which would mean that Flood’s conduct, in that specific incident, would be a fraction less unethical than originally presented. You can read the exchange here.

As we are about to see, any ground he gained on that point is imaginary. And with just a couple of quick comments to the thread in question, he showed us why.

In one of those comments, he offered a defense of the White Ribbon Campaign (WRC), a roundly discredited campaign for which Flood is an ambassador. The reason WRC has received substantial scientific and academic condemnation (even as it enjoys political support) is because it presents a model of domestic violence that contradicts substantive research on the subject, and has largely rested its credibility on highly suspect, misrepresented and debunked data. In short, it is politically viable while factually unsupportable. And it appears that for Flood and his fellows that the political viability has overridden any concerns about its statistical validity.

I have elected to take Flood’s comment and present it to you here, with point by point refutations. His words will be displayed in italics, and mine in standard font.

[I]n response to the material about the mistaken “one in three boys” statistic…

The White Ribbon Foundation’s report An Assault on Our Future (2008) contained a small error regarding one aspect of young people’s attitudes towards violence. At one point, the report stated that 31% of young men agreed that ‘when a guy hits a girl it’s not really a big deal’, but here ‘guy’ and ‘girl’ had been transposed (National Crime Prevention 2001: 65). Unfortunately, this mistaken statistic was highlighted in a media release (not written by the reports’ authors) and thus compounded in media coverage. The error was corrected as soon as it was known and the report was re-released.

A small error? Flood’s own study concludes that nearly a third of young men do not see women assaulting them as a problem worth attention. Rather than that being a pivotal, wake up moment for his male targeted campaign, giving him a clear mandate to inform young men that violence against them is also wrong, he simply corrected the faulty numbers after the damage was done, and now calls it a minor mistake.

And let’s be honest here. Flood calling it a mistake, even a minor one, is less than genuine. There is no program information, plans of action or any other form of recognition by the WRC that recognizes what the “corrected” numbers directly imply. A large percentage of young men have no sense of awareness that violence against them by a woman is wrong. Rather than address this issue, Flood and the other ideologues at WRC instead went full steam ahead with an agenda to raise awareness of violence against women only, targeting the whole of men as perpetrators.

There is little point in correcting information if you have no intention of putting it into practice to begin with.

This minor error did not take away from the main message of the report: that young people are exposed to violence in their families and relationships at disturbingly high levels….

We need to stop mid-sentence here. There is no message or awareness advocacy from WRC that young “people” are exposed to violence, just young women. All of their literature, “research” information and awareness efforts completely dismiss male victims and female perpetrators. We see the transition of focus toward the gendered model as Flood completes his thought.

…that this violence has profound and long-lasting effects, that violence is sustained in part by some young people’s violence-supportive attitudes, that young males have more violence-supportive attitudes than young females, and that prevention efforts can stop this violence from occurring and continuing (Flood and Fergus 2008). The full report is available here:

http://www.whiteribbon.org.au/media/documents/AssaultonourFutureFinal.pdf.

Note the move. Twice in a row he referred to problems experience by young “people.” But then, he begins to ease readers toward the intended paradigm of  victims  and perpetrators that are designated by sex. His first step in this direction is pointing to “violence-supportive” attitudes being more prevalent in young men than young women. He offers a research link, supposedly to a study of his own authorship, but it returns a “Page no longer exists” message at the WRC website.

That’s fine for the moment. We can wait to see his his non-reviewed, self-conducted research, and at that point we may even ascertain why it is no longer present on the site. We can still address part of Flood’s gendered notions of violence-supportive attitudes.

First, it would stand to reason that we would infer that at least some portion of what Flood defines as “violence-supportive” attitudes in young men must be explained, in Flood’s own words, by the indifference to violence committed against them by women. Even according to the remainder of Flood’s position, that constitutes the lion’s share of any purported tolerance for violence. It is not, in this case, violence by men against women that is supported, but the reverse.

Flood does offer some “evidence” of the idea that young males have more violence-supportive attitudes than young females, though not nearly in the proportions shown above. For example:

One in three boys (33%) believe that ‘most physical violence occurs in dating because a partner provoked it’, compared to 25% of girls (NCP 2001: 65).

15 per cent of males (but only 4% of females) agree that ‘It is okay to put pressure on a girl to have sex but not to physically force her’ (NCP 2001: 65).

Over one in eight boys (12%) believe that ‘it is okay for a boy to make a girl have sex, if she’s flirted with him, or led him’, compared to only 3% of girls (NCP 2001: 65).

7% of males (but only 2% of females) agree that ‘it’s alright for a guy to hit his girlfriend if she makes him look stupid in front of his mates’ (NCP 2001: 65).

On the surface, these would appear to be some compelling numbers regarding male tolerance of violence toward females. There is, however, a significant caveat. There was no corresponding questions in the reverse of any of these questions, so there is no data here to determine the violence-supportive attitudes of girls. Thus there is absolutely no justification for saying that such attitudes are more prevalent in males.

And how do we know that the reverse questions were never asked? The entire paper, and all its glaring deficiencies were already dissected and debunked by Men’s Health Australia (MHA), a magazine which is considered to be a highly reputable source of information about social and psychological aspects of the lives of Australian men and boys.

Let’s take a look at an exchange between Flood and MHA regarding the statistics he posted to A Voice for Men just hours ago. In dissent of the findings:

MHA: Because these questions weren’t asked in the reverse (e.g. ‘do you believe that it is okay for a girl to make a boy have sex, if he’s flirted with her, or led her’), we don’t know what young people’s tolerance is of specific types of female-to-male violence (only of violence in general – see below).

FLOOD: Indeed, in highlighting the mistaken statistic above, Men’s Health Australia do[sic] not acknowledge that there is in fact greater tolerance for females’ violence against young men than young women. Close to 1/3 (31%) of boys and young men agreed that ‘when a guy hits a girl it’s not really a big deal’ Compared to 19% of females (National Crime Prevention 2001: 65). This may reflect a more general tolerance for violence espoused by young males.

Of course, again, Flood is talking about violence against men, which has nothing to do with WRC, but the greater tell is in the beginning of his comment. He acknowledges that the highlighted statistic is in error; the same statistic he just posted to AVfM as qualified, credible research. In other words, Flood is here at AVfM attempting to pawn off research numbers that have not only been debunked, but which he has already publicly admitted have been debunked to a national magazine.

In fact, his comment here at AVfM appears to be a direct copy and paste from his statement to MHA, except that he omitted the part about the stats being invalid. As we see here, from his recent comment to AVfM:

In fact, there is greater tolerance for females’ violence against males among young men than young women. Close to one-third (31%) of boys and young men agreed that ‘when a girl hits a guy it’s not really a big deal’, compared to 19% of girls and young women (National Crime Prevention 2001: 65). This may reflect a more general tolerance for violence espoused by young males.

I strongly suggest that any reader interested in the academic integrity of Michael Flood read the critique of his research in the link below, with particular attention to his exchanges with MHA representatives. It is incredibly telling information.

Even the series of events that finally led Flood to respond to criticism of his work is informative. Per the MHA document, it went like this.

White Ribbon’s initial response to our concerns was five months of silence. Once we pursued the matter we were sent a response to our concerns written by Dr. Michael Flood – a White Ribbon Ambassador and Lecturer in Sociology at the University of Wollongong with a long involvement in community advocacy and education work focused on men’s violence against women. This response failed to address our core concern: that it isn’t necessary for White Ribbon to downplay, diminish or report incorrectly about male victims of violence in order to highlight female victims of violence.

In addition, Dr. Flood’s response:

  • Failed to address a number of our specific concerns about statistical and factual errors;
  • Contained more errors than the original document when responding to other specific concerns;
  • Resorted to ad hominem attacks in an apparent attempt to discredit Men’s Health Australia;
  • Failed to successfully challenge any of Men’s Health’s specific concerns.

MHA CONTINUES:

On 4th November 2010 we wrote an open letter, co-signed by almost 20 professionals and organisations working in the field of family and domestic violence, to the Chairman and Board of  the White Ribbon Foundation about these errors and unreferenced claims but did not receive a response.

On 23rd November 2010 we sent another open letter, co-signed by more than 30 professionals and organisations working in the field of family and domestic violence, to the Hon Kate Ellis MP, Minister for the Status of Women. This letter was CC’d to all Federal MPs. It strongly urged the Australian Government to reconsider whether the White Ribbon Foundation are an appropriate agency to be funded to undertake violence-prevention work in the Australian community, and requesting that she personally take steps to ensure that they do not mislead the public – either intentionally or unintentionally – with false or misleading information about violence while in receipt of public funding.

On 24 November 2010, we issued a media release titled Federal funding ‘misused’ by White Ribbon Campaign.

On 31 January 2011, an advisor to the Minister replied to us, completely ignoring the entire substance of our open letter.

On 4 February 2011 we contacted the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) requesting new data from the 2005 Personal Safety Survey to help us confirm the concerns made in our original letters.

On 4 April 2011, we replied to the Minister, requesting a further response that addressed the substance of our original letter.

On 20 April the ABS provided our data request, however on 3 June they informed us that the request would have to be reissued because of errors in the original data sent to us. The reissued data was provided to us on 10 June, at which time we asked the ABS to confirm the validity of a number of statistical charts and statements derived from the raw data. Most of these requests were confirmed by the ABS by 18 October 2011 but one is still outstanding as of the date of writing this document due to a change in ABS staff.

On 30 May 2011, the Minister’s advisor wrote back, merely “noting the issue our organisation has raised.”

Having heard nothing from the White Ribbon Foundation, we telephoned their Sydney office on 4 April 2011, and spoke with their National Marketing and Communications Manager, Kate Alexander. She forwarded us a copy of the document A response to criticisms of White Ribbon materials made by Men’s Health Australia, authored by Dr. Michael Flood.

Noting that the response document contained as many – if not more – statistical errors and omissions as the original What about the men? White Ribbon, men and violence document, we sought a meeting with the new CEO of the White Ribbon Foundation, Libby Davies, and Ms. Alexander. This meeting took place on 2nd May 2011.

Politically viable. Academically fraudulent. There is sufficient evidence to conclude that Michael Flood has knowingly used a significant quantity of erroneous statistics to promote White Ribbon Day. In short, he misled the public into participating in the project, and the government into funding it.

WRC justifies its existence by reducing the complicated, sometimes intractable problem of domestic violence to a simplistic model targeting men, and only men, as perpetrators, and women, and only women, as victims. This is despite the overwhelming amount of research that concludes men and women are equally prone to commit intimate partner violence, that men are particularly prone to under reporting and that men who are victims suffer a severe deficit in the availability to social services.

Aside from efforts to fund a a manufactured, gender based model of domestic violence, there is also ideological factors that appear to be driving Dr. Flood. While it is well known that he is an avid and active supporter of gender feminism, that is hardly remarkable in modern society, particularly in academe.

What is more concerning is that Flood has given clues that he subscribes to more virulent, radicalized forms of feminism, as opposed to the beliefs of many of his peers. Flood is quoted as saying:

 

The idea that radical feminism is essentialist has become a standard claim. However, this is more folklore than fact, and the actual writings of radical feminists show more hope for change and less biological determinism than such claims allow. [source]

This appears to be much more than rhetoric.

Flood is responsible for the establishment of a blogging community, XYOnline. Part of his efforts there are to recruit like-minded ideologues to supply content for the site. So far his chief acquisition is Julian Real, an avowed radical feminist who describes himself as “[A] white, class-privileged, Western academically and non-academically educated, intergender (and, much more importantly, anti-gender) male who is also gay, asexual, Jewish, and a survivor of childhood sexual assault and adult sexual exploitation.”

Flood announced his addition of Real to the roster on the site:

 

XY now has three bloggers lined up, with one (Julian Real) contributing regularly and the other two starting soon.

Real also manages a blog called Radical Profeminist, where the subject of extermination of 90% of the male population (for the sake of world peace) is openly discussed. While Real appears to have gone in after the fact and posted a disclaimer expressing opposition to genocide, that is contradicted by statements he made in an online exchange with a genocide advocate that was posting anonymously. The exchange went as follows:

♦♦♦

Anonymous: Right now, men know how to shut up when I walk in the room. They are just as deadly as ever, but at least the jokes stop. Step one, shut them up, step two, teach the girls to fight back hard, step three execute all rapists, step four reduce the male worldwide population to say 10%. Maybe then we’d have peace in the world.

Julian Real: I’m all for it, as long as that 90% isn’t comprised of people who are facing genocide by whites, unless agreed upon by the women of that community, society, or nation.

 ♦♦♦

Michael Flood, a man campaigning to reach across the entire Australian landscape and influence young men, has chosen to share a public stage with a man who when questioned about exterminating nearly half the population is “all for it,” as long as the victims are not going to be murdered by someone else first. Well, unless the women say they should be killed anyway.

I am seldom at a loss for words. But I seriously struggle with what to say to this. The depravity is too much, too sickening. Suddenly I am distracted from my concerns about white ribbons and false statistics and sleazing around for a grab at some government funding.

Do I think Michael Flood shares these views? I have no idea, and to tell you the truth I quit caring before I finished writing this article. This is not about domestic violence or even ideology. It is about some very, very sick people who are, regardless of the causes in which they drape themselves, no friend to the society in which they live, or to anyone else. The idea they have access to the minds of young people is frightening.

Men’s Health Australia Report on Michael Flood

 

About Paul Elam

Paul Elam is the founder and publisher of A Voice for Men, the founder of A Voice for Men Radio, and appears weekly on AVFM Intelligence Report, Going Mental with Dr. Tara Palmatier and monthly on MANstream Media with Warren Farrell and Tom Golden.

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  • Roger O Thornhill

    The only way I can describe Michael Flood is that he is from Bizarro World!

    Dig out your old Superman comics!

    • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

      LOL, thats paying him a compliment. Bizarro is a fictional character that does everything backwards. For example, his hello is actually goodbye, and vice versa.

      Flood is nothing like that. His data is not backwards; it is intentionally fraudulent. He thinks he is the persecuted fox in a British hunt. He’s right.

      It just so happens that one of the “blood”hounds tracking him is Paul Elam. The thouroughbreds riding him on a predestined course of career death are actual psychologists; obvisously unlike he is. I imagine he was in need of a change of undergarments in a few of those MHA letters.

      The sad thing is, and it is completely predictable, is that instead of walking away, or recanting his lies; he doubled down on the political angle and picked the place and bloodhound he will attack in the court of public opinion.

      I agree with Paul; he is going to use that former FHM writer to try and backstab him. I strongly suggest they bring their A game; and close their comments section. :)

      Heheheheheheheheehehehehe, alot of people are going to get a real education.

      Good luck Paul.

      • Roger O Thornhill

        Hi JJ,

        Oh,… I thought everyone from Bizarro World was just simply fucked in the head and butt ugly?

        He also needs to stop dunking his head in Grecian 2000 Formula!

        Are you sure JJ, that he’s not really from there…?
        :-)

        • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

          Proof positive. Bizarro was created in a test tube; this guy had to lie his ass off through schooling, college, Masters, and whatever else to get to the level where he is at.

          You can really only have your head permanently strip welded up your own ass one of two ways.

          1. When you are a helpless victim killed by an unfortunate series of events; and you will no longer care about the new “anatomy” your killer gave you.

          2. You are a strangely willing participant.

          Bizarro was a freak accident of a test tube. Flood, is some thing else.

          Can you guess which one I vote for?

  • Man

    Flood is a lying piece of shit who accepted compensation to sell out his own gender.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

      Yep and he is cheap, rumor is that it was a blow job!

      • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

        I’m assuming quite sadly a failed blow job at that?

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

    Off to the cinema tonight, plenty of young men I can recruit for the MRM, the young are the future of the MRM!

    • lensman

      What are you going to watch?

      • lensman

        That is awesome (I am a great fan of the original comic book). Hopefully Stallone is not involved in this one.

        • Kimski

          He is not, thankfully.
          It’s a great movie for a saturday night. Very much closer to the original concept, as Brian Bolland intended it.
          Now I’m just looking forward to a Camelot 3000 movie.

  • Tawil

    I had no idea that Michael Flood’s distortion of statistical materials used in the White Ribbon Campaign was so extreme.

    That he would stir up argument about his (admitted) errors just a month out from WRD would seem counter-productive.

    Sometimes he appears too smart for his own good… and this will get a lot of people questioning WRD rather than endorsing it.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      I think what we may see develop is the use of demonizing the MRM (AVfM in particular) in order to promote WRD.

      He did not show up here by accident, nor is he pushing posts without a reason. He is a narcissistic sociopath, but he isn’t stupid.

      • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

        Yup, but unlike Hannibal Lecter; he is not that smart. Otherwise he would not be digging a deeper hole. He must be aware that the more you persecute someone with lies; the faster your ideology’s demise.

        His morals though, much like Hannibal Lecter, are a work of fiction. It is easy to see he doesn’t have any. This to me is typical of those in his camp; and that women in general never see that the very Michael Floods of the world who claim to be their hero; are actually their master. He merely uses them as the tool to get tax funds and more influence over the state.

        I’d be angry, that is if I still cared anymore. Sometimes people have to learn, women included, and need to sleep in the bed they make for themselves.

    • Shrek6

      I’m afraid I have to agree with Paul. He is here deliberately stirring the pot for a very good reason. I’ll bet these pages/topics that he is spending time arguing in, will have their links plastered around the feminist world and indeed in the media, to sully both this site and also the MRM in general.

      We need to shut down arguing with this guy, because he is trying to make fools out of us.

      Like I said, the Traitor is the worst enemy you can ever have!

      Time to remove this parasite Paul!

      • lensman

        While I agree with you on what Flood is trying to do, I don’t think he should be banned from commenting this site. This isn’t Atheism+ and feminists of whatever gender are allowed to argue their case, as long as they present arguments.

        Sure, Flood’s argument is his own discredited research, and ass-pulled numbers but still… I am against censorship of any kind.

        • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

          I agree.

          We can’t win against these assholes if we are too timid to suffer some of the most brutal accusations they may launch at us.

          They are too entrenched for this to be an easy win. Otherwise we would have won already.

          However, even though guys like Flood helped overturn the pro-father legislation from 2006; it is good that they have to keep “re-winninig” battles. That invariably means that they are losing the war; unless we quit.

          I’ll never go back. You are going to have to bring my dead corpse back instead.

      • Bev

        He has plenty of form. He has infiltrared men’s forums and groups before. He stirs things up then uses the agitation he has caused to condemn the group he has tried to disrupt.

      • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

        I appreciate your sentiment, but I am going to let him speak if he wants to. In just the course of a couple of comments he dug a huge hole for himself.

        As slippery as this character can be, he is also arrogant to a fault.

        Consider the exchange with MHA. He was utterly eviscerated and exposed as a pathological liar. I also have it on word that even the people associated with WRC are in a pickle because they want to get rid of him and are not quite sure of the best method.

        The more this guy talks, the more damage he does to himself and the more ammunition he delivers to be used on him.

        • Shrek6

          Thanks Paul. After reading a little more here, I have to agree with you. I guess I’m a bit nervous about the effects of infiltrating mercenaries. The same type of sub-humans who destroyed the Aussie MRM.

          You need to understand that I am still suffering from a bit of MRM-PTSD. Here in Aus, many years ago, we had a viable somewhat effective MRM. But it was overtaken by, and in some cases the original leaders as well, turned ‘blue pill’ traitors and the whole movement went down the toilet. There was one prominent group that now only exists as a blog, where men were able to come to, just like AVfM, that also ended up turning on the very men it was supposed to be supporting. If any man who was being brutalised said one single word about a woman, especially using the dreaded word ‘Bitch’, he was publicly abused by the moderators and threatened with expulsion from the group. Some of those MRM perps are even posting here, but they keep a low profile.

          Women were allowed into these groups, which saw an influx of feminists and their male puppets. And that would have been okay if we had red pill owner/moderators.
          However, none of the moderators or owners dealt with these feminists and the men left these groups in droves, till there was nothing left, because most suffered being abused at the hands of the moderators, who were doing all they can to keep the women happy. They were all playing the ‘white knight’ game, because there was the scent of estrogen in the air.

          There are other members here who can attest to what I say.

          So, I guess I am still getting use to the obvious fact that I am now part of a group/MRM that can and does weed out the arseholes from the good people, and that does actually promote the inclusion of ‘men friendly’ women, who are one of our greatest assets.

          Thanks for all that you guys and gals do, and thank you for your maturity, because there are many men in Aus who have been turned away from the MRM by blue pill MRAs’, and these guys need a home to come to.

          • Tawil

            “There are other members here who can attest to what I say.”

            Yep, thats how it happened.

            Most of the red-pill guys and gals from there are here now, and the blog you mention seems to have gathered the other more pro chivalry contingent.

            All worked out for the best, and we have an even better, international forum here at AVfM.

          • Shrek6

            Just one forgotten and very important fact that I foolishly neglected to state.

            We actually did have some ‘red pill’ moderators in the Aussie MRM, but sadly one of the best died young from an unexpected heart attack, and others left the MRM out of frustration and disgust.

            I would like to publicly express my appreciation for those guys (only just a few) who worked hard to try and keep some balance in the MRM, but had to leave because they were out numbered by white night moderator/owners.

          • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

            Art mimics life, all strategy can be made to mimic war.

            I know a lot, but I don’t know everything. IF I was him, I would read Art of War by Sun Tzu (specifically the part on Ninjas), War College Papers; and study the tactics of European assassins of midieval times; probably Green Berets too.

            He strikes me as too arrogant though. Even if he does; this is the internet. You are not fighting just one person physically, in this case Paul Elam; you’re fighting all of ours with all of yours in an electronic proxy “cat fight.” One he does not possess the character necessary to win.

            First he will have to extrapolate some ideas of war; then translate them into an effective strategy replete with detailed analysi…………….Oh, that won’t work for him. Analysis is not a strong point apparently. He claims to be a professional too?

            MHA already showed detailed analysis cannot just be copied and pasted from another feminist website; and expect to not sweat bullets when faced with real professionals. He has struck his own reputation down; to bad for us the sciences move like a glacier; or in some cases geological time. Or the Public in Australia would have already summarrily dismissed him.

            No reason to have fear Shrek6, Flood is very likely to bury himself without us having to do anywork. Since when has he done a detailed analysis on any of us?

            Either way, any of us bloggers that he tries to assassinate be wary; he is a blood thirsty wolf; like the coward at manboobs he is merely looking for a low enough value target whose character he can assassinate to take the steam out our stride in the public court of opinion. Ok strategy, but he has already done that before to F4J. If he came to my site; I’d forward his crap here. Also, it gives us an opportunity to educate the public he does send here!

            I am a blogger, but I have seen his type; I am not arrogant to think that he travels by himself. No reason to fear; just watch what you say around these Dbags.

            They make it easy for women to falsely accuse us of anything; so we already know what he is up to. It is merely finding the path he will invariably take.

  • Booyah

    I have enjoyed some of the more light hearted stories out of the MRM of late. Due to this, at the start of this article I had notions of leaving a light hearted reply along the lines of “Please come back Mr Flood when you have organised Black Ribbon Day in a measure of equality. This day will pay its respect and mourn for the ludicrous attacks on men for the last 40-50 years. Apologise to the young children we told they were monsters through the mainstream media and sources expected to be taken as credible and honest.”

    Any such notions of comedy were quickly replaced by horror and fear that such a biased, bigotted and loathsome creature could have any traction in respectable culture. I cant say surprised because Ive already had the (dis)pleasure of seeing your dishonorable tactics with the underhanded implication of acceptance with gillards ludicrous new DV laws. Oh and the 40-50 years of genocide advocation that you are now shown to be linked to. Thats a bit stale these days since I was first exposed to it at 5 years of age. Ho hum. It makes the Nazi party look like amatuers and you more hateful, hurtful and dangerous than any man who refuses to don your condescending white ribbon. I respectfully suggest that you may have a better career in some form of hate advocation. See if the KKK need a publicist. I really believe this sort of career will be better suited to you when eventually you and every other vile creature like you is exposed and reasoned under sound justice. I know sound justice is a difficult concept for you to understand but it is the principles justice is founded on so you should really try to stretch you tiny and hateful mind just a shade as it could one day have very lasting and damning ramifications for you if it ever eventuates. Normally I enjoy a delicious irony and you being a campaigner for reducing violence and wishing to wipe half the worlds population off the face of it is a doozy. Unfortunately due to the sheer scale of that sort of horrific act of violence I am unable to see the comedy in this particular case. For this reason I am also recommending you do not pursue a career in comedy. I do feel that you will be in need of a new career in the very near future however and wish you all the best in whatever that may be. I am sorry that the simple concept that “violence is violence” was unable to permeate your university trained mind. The world can be so frightfully unfair. Best wishes from this not angry white man =)

    • http://beijaflorbeyondthesunset.wordpress.com Rick Westlake

      Respectfully submit that Dr. Flood is already up to his wet nappies in hate-advocacy work, with the White Ribbon Campaign.

      • Booyah

        I respectfully defer to your opinion my good man.

      • Bev

        The rabbit hole goes much much deeper. This article has just skimmed the surface. A whole series of articles would be needed to do justice to his numerous exploits.

  • Roger O Thornhill

    “Land Fill” is the only other career option I can see in the future for Michael Flood and his acolytes.

  • michael steane

    MRAs have now found a second possible area of agreement with feminists. To add to the universal condemnation of Hugo Schwyzer, we may also be all able to agree that Michael Flood is an embarrassment to academia, feminism and anything else he associates with.

    • Bev

      It is hard to keep track of what institution he belongs to he changes organizations/universities all the time. I suspect he moves when he is found out for what he is. His distortions and dubious research are legion it is a wonder anybody employs him.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

        Another good result of my poster runs targeting the university’s.

        The dark heart of the Floods of the world reside at the UNI campuses, this is where I drive the wooden stake through it, using poster and stickers to deny them the next generation.

        I am willing and able to destroy Floods career, ditto to all of his ilk.

        This is war, it is the only way I see it, there is no turning back.

  • Skeptic

    I met Flood in person at a Men’s Gathering back in the 1990s. He appeared to me to be a blinkered ivory tower pro-fem sort then, so this latest report doesn’t surprise me too much. I recall having a conversation with him in which I tried to get him to acknowledge male victims of domestic violence as well as female victims of DV – it was like talking to a brick wall.
    He wouldn’t have a bar of it. It was clear I was wasting my time trying to talk sense to somebody who appeared brainwashed like a cult member. I remember walking away feeling really disturbed and thinking “Jeeze, What the hell was that?”

    • Aimee McGee

      You might want to read his response to me over on the other article then…such a good advocate for menD

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW
    • scatmaster

      Telstra men, including our CEO, have signed on as ambassadors and supporters of the White Ribbon Foundation campaign to eliminate violence against women

      Was that voluntary or were they shamed into it?

      I used to deal with Telstra people years ago but have not been in contact in years. It would be interesting to know if they were forced to sign this declaration. When I was with Nortel Networks I refused “diversity” training. My understanding from people who had previously taken the course it was a male hate fest.
      Not for me.

  • Booyah

    Id also like to add that since your supporting Gillard’s new DV laws that will put a man in prison if his female partner is unhappy I have chosen to not spend time with women. I am not only an honorable man to sustain my own self worth but I also do fear prison. Any man like me will quickly realise that under gillard’s new law that being in female company comes at a pretty similar risk of being raped as to climbing into a prison cell and asking “who wants to be my boyfriend?” consequently Australia is quickly going to become a country where men fearing prison will stay away from women but those unafraid of prison will be readily available. Its all very exciting and radical and im expecting it will be interesting to watch this help the women of Australia. I’m sure you guys have that all figured out and im looking forward to seeing happier Aussie women. =) I’m thinking you might need a little more than white ribbons now though (pro-tip) Best wishes again.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

    Oh boy this Guy Mosel fellow has a like on his facebook page….. it is the white ribbon campaign….

    https://www.facebook.com/guymosel?fref=ts

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Good find! Page saved. :O)

  • Tawil

    Hmmm, I just found this on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/WhiteRibbonAust/status/75474466309808128
    Guy Mosel ‏@guymosel: Just had a meeting with the guys from @WhiteRibbonAust. Hope to do some good stuff with them this year. Great cause. @FHM_Australia

    White Ribbon White Ribbon ‏@WhiteRibbonAust
    @guymosel @FHM_Australia Thanks Guy – we’re also looking forward to working with you this year – some exciting stuff happening!

    And this:

    http://de.twitter.com/guymosel/status/180648648017854466
    Guy Mosel Guy Mosel ‏@guymosel Phew! Trying to convince people you’re not a hateful misogynist intent on unwinding suffrage really takes it out of you! Night all.

    And this:

    https://twitter.com/guymosel/status/232441089943019520
    Leslie Cannold ‏@LeslieCannold Oz men not losing their manners. Those who’ve always been misogynists no longer feel compelled to cover it #qanda
    Details

    Guy Mosel Guy Mosel ‏@guymosel Do you actually believe that? I would argue misogyny is more punished and less acceptable than ever. Am I wrong?
    ____________________________

    Dont know what to make of all that… bit of a mixed bag. Will reserve judgment for now.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Total blue pill confusion.

  • napocapo69

    a remark:

    “the idea that radical feminism is essentialist has become a standard claim. However, this is more folklore than fact, and the actual writings of radical feminists show more hope for change and less biological determinism than such claims allow.”

    Even for Nazis the extermination of Jews was folklore at the beginning.

    Further, in my whole life, I haven’t heard anyone else considering biological determinism, who wasn’t a feminist and, incidentally, a female one. Call them radical feminists, if you wish, but personally I’m not prone to distinguish moderate Nazis from radical Nazis…so i do with feminists.

    • lensman

      Essentialism is basically the concept that what we are living right now is an imperfect representation of something ideal. In that sense, every “-ism” is essentialistic at it’s core because it implies that what we are living right now is not good, and we should go to the direction the “-ism” indicates in order to approach the ideal. Dawkins called it “the dead hand of Plato”.

      It appears that Flood doesn’t have the slightest idea of what the hell he is talking about.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

    Flood is a long standing proponent of deconstructing masculinity, and an anagram of his name suggests divine irony – Macho Old Life.

    Pardon, but now for the business end of this comment.

    Mr Flood has tipped his hand with his visit, and there is no doubt his arrival has been to smooth the runway for an upcoming article as Paul Elam has asserted. I think he is bang on the green and we should look skyward for the sound of it’s drone coming soon.

    There is another incident that has been buried by Flood, and a tunnel to intercept this coffin is now being dug.

    I won’t say anything more about it right now, suffice to say while you are watching the skies you might also glance down now and then to soon find a rotting corpse laid on our mortician’s table. It will be ugly and it may result in Flood covering his face as the fan hits the hill of fresh dung.

    I ache to apologise to Flood in advance, and I really would apologise if I was a different person, but I’m not so I won’t because I can’t.

    For those that know me a little you will understand why I do apologise for this other less funny, but highly polished stone – Hold Of Malice.

  • http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

    Males are the target of hateful, lying, domestic violence laws. http://tinyurl.com/yaunbxr

  • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

    Under no circumstances, ever, do we tolerate any advocacy of violence unless it is overwhelmingly obvious that it is meant entirely and completely humorously (ala Bugs Bunny type thing). That is not the case with a recent comment you’ve left, which I’ve removed, and I must tell you that if you do it again you’ll be banned. If you feel I’ve acted inappropriately or injudiciously or unfairly, let Paul Elam know.

    • http://shiningpearlsofsomething.blogspot.com Suz

      I wouldn’t be here if you weren’t committed to this principle.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      I would not advise he complain to me.

    • Bev

      Thank you Dean. I read the comment and thought Oh Oh. This exactly the sort of comment Flood would jump on and quote to build a case about “violent MRA’s.”

      He has a history of self serving selective quotes to make his point as others have found out the hard way.

      • Patrick Henry

        Come to think of it, who’s to say it’s not Mr. Flood.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

          Different IP address matey.

          • Ricardo

            Same neighborhood perhaps? People have friends do their bidding.

            I see regularly how the professional haters, like that Futrelle guy, pulls any comment he can out of any context and sometimes I think he makes his living having people write hateful things just so he can quote them to make more money for himself. It makes me sick. Some men’s advocates, they really can be crazy, but everybody I have seen here, they are never like that ever. Can it be such coincidence this is on the same day?

          • Booyah

            the comment acknowledged that AVFM and the MRM has a zero tolerance to violence and then kind of revealed a half joking threat. It was off colour and distasteful but not as ominous as the deletion makes it look in a way. The decision to delete was correct IMO however. Personal frustration just spilled over and articulated poorly would be another way to judge it really.

          • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

            It is annoying in a way because frankly it does look a little more ominous to remove it than the actual content, which was most likely not serious. No matter. The policy is zero tolerance.

            On the other hand, I will venture that I would enjoy seeing Michael Flood buy himself a giant slingshot from the Acme company in his attempt to capture the Roadrunner known as his credibility.

          • Ben

            I would bet that it is not a coincidence. I have noticed that the only time that outrageous threats of violence (that sound nothing like anything I have ever heard from any other MRA) appear is right around the times that this site has adversaries from mainstream publications. Strange…

          • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

            There is some truth to that, but it does come up at other times, too. What most of it is, in my opinion, is just someone who is angry blowing off steam and taking it too far. I bet that more than 9 out of 10 of these comments come from people that would not actually want violence to occur, but we have no way of knowing that. And of course we also have to be responsible about what message this environment sends out to the body of readers.

            I read that remark. I have seen far worse but I agree with Dean’s thoughtful handling of it. I also got a very adult emailed apology from the person making the comment. He is not banned and is welcome to continue posting within the guidelines we set.

    • the Tired Low Social

      the comment’s intent was to say people like Micheal Flood can make this site and other MRA’s look like those all bark, no bite people in an area where it is important to show people that this side actually CAN follow through. even i would prefer to stay away from violence as much as possible, but i recognize that that option may not always be available. from what i’ve seen about Flood and others like him from this site, he and the rest sound like people who could see every piece of logic, reason, and their own shit thrown at them and it still wouldn’t change them much. these people live so violently that it becomes the only thing they tend to understand. sides, if he had picked up on my comment, he would’ve been screwed once people find out i’m only a 17 year old american kid who has little experience with people on his level. note, i’m not advocating violence.

      • Bev

        You live and learn. It is to be hoped that the message gets through to young people like yourself just how hateful feminism is. Your age does not help with these people Flood would hold you up as an example of “bad” masculinity and why “reprogramming” is necessary. He has pushed for (and succeeded) aided by others in introducing a feminist view of the world to very young boys as a compulsory subject in schools under the title of “respectful relations”. You are slightly younger than my elder grandsons and I fear for them and all young men in the world they are growing up in unless things change. and I will fight against feminism while ever I can and as I have since before you were born.

        • Tawil

          Flood began his attack on boys in Victoria… since then his ‘feminism for boys’ propaganda has been rolled out across the nation. Here is an old Herald Sun newspaper article about it that was released on ‘White Ribbon Day’ in 2009:

          http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/boys-face-compulsory-feminism-programs-in-state-schools-across-victoria/story-e6frf7jo-1225803918910
          Boys face compulsory feminism programs in state schools across Victoria

          BOYS face compulsory feminism programs in state schools across Victoria.

          Possible classroom activities include students acting out scenes of sexual coercion after which students would suggest more appropriate behaviour.

          A VicHealth report for the state Education Department calls for teachers to be trained in gender, violence and sexual health issues so they would be comfortable discussing “taboo” issues.

          But it would help if teachers could “make the program fun”, the authors said.

          The report says programs for all students should start at primary level and be reinforced across all year levels in subjects including drama, English, science and sport.

          They would combat common attitudes among boys such as young women are either “good girls or sluts”, the report said.

          It said feminist theories were best at explaining the link between gender power relations and violence against women, and must underpin the programs.

          But the authors of the “Respectful Relationships Education” report admitted there was considerable community hostility to feminism, even among teachers and students.

          “However, a feminist conceptual framework is essential both to reflect research on violence in relationships and families and to anchor the political commitments of the program,” they said.

          Australian Family Association spokesman John Morrissey said boys were already getting feminised education due to the falling number of male teachers in schools. “I’m sceptical if boys will respond to it if it is dressed up in feminist language and ideology,” he said.

          “Strident feminist propaganda won’t wash with boys.”

          Report author Dr Michael Flood admitted there was always the risk of a backlash, but said it was crucial that students were taught that sexist attitudes and unequal relationships between the sexes were central to explaining violence.

          “We need to do that in ways that are careful and respectful and don’t make boys in particular feel blamed and demonised for the problem,” he said.

          “Not by shoving capital ‘F’ feminism down their throats.”

          Education Minister Bronwyn Pike said four schools would run anti-violence pilot programs from early next year.

          • Tawil

            Here’s an update from this year:

            http://juliecollins.fahcsia.gov.au/node/126
            New $3.7 million funding to promote respectful relationships

            12 May 2012
            Joint Media Release With:

            Senator Carol Brown, Senator for Tasmania Deputy Government, Whip in the Senate

            The Australian Government is providing 11 organisations with $3.7 million in new funding to encourage healthy relationships among young people as a way of reducing violence against women.

            The Minister for the Status of Women, Julie Collins MP, and Senator for Tasmania, Carol Brown, today announced the 11 recipients of grants for the third round of the Government’s Respectful Relationships initiative during a visit to one of the successful applicants, the Migrant Resource Centre (Southern Tasmania) Inc. in Hobart.

            “Educating young people on how to engage in respectful relationships is an important way of working towards breaking the cycle of violence against women,” Ms Collins said.

            “We’ve already delivered Respectful Relationships education to more than 33,000 young people across Australia and this new $3.7 million in funding will make it possible to reach thousands more.

            “Sadly, there is still a great need in Australia for programs such as Respectful Relationships – nearly one in three Australian women has experienced physical violence and one in five has been the victim of sexual assault.

            “Changing entrenched attitudes is a long-term challenge, but some great work is being done through Respectful Relationships projects.

            “Since the program started in 2009, we have invested $9.1 million in 32 projects to help equip young people with the skills to engage in respectful relationships,” Ms Collins said.

            Senator Brown congratulated the Migrant Resource Centre of Southern Tasmania Inc. on its successful bid for what will be an important program for the local community. It has received $238,000 to carry out the program.

            “The Centre will deliver a respectful relationships program to high school students from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds in Southern Tasmania,” Senator Brown said.

            “The program will include education sessions with students as well as workshops for teachers and school staff.

            “It will address a number of issues including gender stereotyping, media influence, ethical conduct and skills-building and will make a big impact on students in the area,” Senator Brown said.

            Other successful applicants include the Women’s Health West in Victoria – which trains young women to become peer educators and YWCA NSW. YWCA NSW will implement the Kids, Family & Community project using school-based educational activities and information sessions for parents.

            “These programs cover a range of approaches, showing the diversity of initiatives the Government has put in place in this important area,” Ms Collins said.

            “This funding is part of our $86 million National Plan to Reduce Violence Against Women and their Children 2010-2022.

            “The National Plan brings together all governments and the non-government sector to co-ordinate efforts to reduce violence against women.

            “The Australian Government is supporting other significant prevention initiatives under the National Plan, including Community Action Grants and The Line campaign,” Ms Collins said.

          • Tawil

            Interestingly, my kids were forced to take a series of these ‘Respectful Relationships’ classes (initially unbeknown to me) and they told me how it worked. They arrived for class and were told they would watch a video about 8 girls who had been sexually abused – first hand accounts by the girls who had been raped, assaulted etc. in graphic detail. One girl in the video, for instance, talked of being a foster child in a home where her step brothers and father would hold her down and insert things into her vagina and rape her, and then threaten her with death if she told anyone. She went into great detail.

            Before this video was put on, the children were told what the subject would be and that they had the choice to not watch it… BUT that if they refused to watch it they must come out in front of the class and explain to the whole class why the disagree with learning about girls being sexually and physically violated.

            I’m not joking.

            After watching the video and discussing males tendency to rape and violence the kids had to ‘enact’ a variety of situations in which a boy was being disrespectful or violent to a girl, in front of the class, and everyone had to discuss thier feelings toward the perpetrating boys, and how they felt for the violated girls. Boys were particulary targeted and asked how they felt “thier” actions must have made the girl feel. They then had to write about ways that boys can learn to stop this behaviour, and how girls can respond when being disrespected and violated.

            Finally all the kids had to create a ‘sexual assault information pamphlet’ that they would hypothetically place in an emergency ward at a hospital for women/girls to read if they arrived at hospital after being assaulted. They also had to make an alternative pamphlet for general educational info about this social problem targetting the general public. The entire ‘Respectful relationships/Feminism’ course ran at our school for several weeks.

            Naturally I was stunned by all this and visited my school principle advising that boys and girls who had been sexually abused would find watching video (etc) traumatising, and that any refusal to participate would be equally traumatic as they would have to stand in front of the class to explain why they didnt want to participate, and be interrogated for thier reasons. I also pointed out the obvious- thats its basically an exercise for stereotyping boys in the worst imaginable way.

            It was explained to me that all schools implimenting this program relied on outside agencies who had applied and been approved by government to receive funding to either teach it in schools or provide the ‘curriculum’ materials/guidelines for teachers to impliment. Most of the “providers” were women’s DV shelters or various other women’s services.

            As a result of my complaint to the principle and to the Minister of Education in my State, the program was deleted immediately from my kid’s school and reviewed throughout schools in the rest of the State.

            First hand account of folks, happening in schools all around Australia right now thanks to people like Flood.

          • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

            Is there any way you could get us a copy of any of this material, including video, audio, transcripts, writing, etc.?

            I assure you we would make very good use of it.

          • Tawil

            Dean,

            I can understand it would make for a great article. Unfortunately that was last year and I did not receive a copy of any of the materials nor of the curriculum design despite having asked for them. (Did these ‘providers’ even draw up an individual materials list for approval, or just work out of their misandric minds??)

            Thing is that what the government and the architects of this national program say its about is bad enough, but then the approved “providers” implement it in an even more disturbing way, apparently without supervision or checks on the material.

            I havn’t checked but there may be more accounts by parents and teachers online, and some providers may have placed thier chosen study materials online (though I assume they will be fairly sneaky about it). The topic upsets me too much to search into it further, but for those interested it may be worth looking for more info on the www.

          • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

            Well you (and anyone else) should keep an eye out for any opportunity to snag material like this. Be assured it would be put to good use. And no, you don’t have to do the writing unless you want to, we’ll take care of that.

            If you (or anyone) were to get your hands on such material, you would also have the thrill of knowing you will be guilty of Practicing Journalism Without A License, and can practice your evil laugh and cackle “victory shall be mine!”

          • Bev

            This is the real rub. I did hear of young boys on White ribbon day being told (shamed) that they should take the “pledge” lest they grow into violent men like all their male relatives. Not everywhere but what happens and what they are told is dependent on how zealous the “providers” are. There is no control.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

            Sure is, Doris Lessing warned us back in 2001 about this.

            The unedited version you will not find this original version on the ABC website.

            I taped this when it first aired about 11 years ago I think, the version on the ABC website has the anti-feminist bits taken out.As the ABC is a feminist run this form of slimy carry on is to expected.

            BTW the ABC is our government owned TV station in Australia.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

            Woops wrong video!

            Still maybe it was an electronic Freudian slip of where feminism is heading.

          • John A

            You could try using freedom from of information laws to get the materials.

          • Theseus

            Damn Tawil, I knew it was bad for young boys, but this? Teaching little kids – like my two boys – that there is something inherently wrong with them for being male, and that they need to be fixed.

            It’s bad enough when this kind of shit is laid on us as adult men, but children?!!!!

            Dude, I have no words.

          • Bev

            Good for you. I suspect however you are fighting a losing battle if the release of the latest DV crusade by the Victorian government is any guide. Objections to the roll out “respectful relations” will be just ignored and those that object will be painted as DV enablers and I suspect their children will be subject to all the bile feminists can muster.

          • Shrek6

            And what shits me off the most, is that girls are not told that if they go out dressed like little harlots that they are as much to blame for their plight.

            I am totally anti-PC and I am totally against females of any age going out dressed in just a handkerchief, then crying rape when someone ogles them or they are actually accosted.

            Oh, but I have the right to go naked anywhere I want and no man should ever look at me or whistle or even touch me. Says the dumb stupid bitches of today who think along the lines of that other naked jerk, Lady Godiva!

            Heck, I agree with these stupid women. Hell, they should be able to go to the Zoo and walk into the Lion’s cage before the animals have been fed, and say to the Lion, “hey, you cannot eat me, because “I am Woman” and I have rights, so back off!”

            I’m sure the Lion is going to take note of that little demand.

            And yes, I could be accused of saying that men have no restraint and will always attack women.
            Well, to that I say, BULLSHIT!

            The fact is, there is evil out there. And that evil is manifest in both men and women. If you are stupid enough to knowingly put yourself at risk in the company of this sort of evil, then in my opinion, you deserve all you get.

            Girls in schools need to be told these hard cold truths. The problem is, they are told the opposite, because the boys are all told that they are the evil mongrels and that one day they will rape a girl. WTF!

            If my kids’ school tried to push any of that crap, I would not only demand they didn’t, I would remove my kids and give the idiot Principle one hell of a dressing down with all the facts and figures to go along with it, plus an inclusion in our local newspaper. Not sure if it would be printed, but I have done it before on another contentious topic that i disagreed with, but unfortunately my efforts failed. At least I tried for the sake of my children, which was always my intention.

          • http://none universe

            I have no issue w/you Monsieur Shrek:
            Girls in schools need to be told these hard cold truths.”
            – Young people need to become educated in matters such as you wrote above – moral boundaries – by their parents.
            Any father worth his salt would soundly reprimand his daughter’s sexually inviting attire.
            If the father is absent from the household due to marital strife – as is apparent in high enough percentage of cases – then the mother is relegated to such duties. If some girls are want to dress themselves as strumpets and get away with doing so is this not symptomatic of the single mother household allowing such wanton behavior? I realize it is easy speaking to the choir.
            Perhaps the reasoning may go today that young people in school are not being told the facts of life from home and therefore have to then be told at school.
            Pretty little “patriarchy” smashing design, huh? Destabilize the family by removing its natural boundary upholder and raise a certain percentage of the fatherless in public institutions teaching the values of the already floundering fatherless. A lot of the young female “teachers” are products of broken homes.

            Schools were once about teaching enough proficiency so as to enable a child/young adult to funtion as efficiently as possible in an already made world. As Tawil has shared with us it appears schools have a function as a really dumbed-down political indoctrination center. Especially of the feminist variety.

            The remedial factor?
            A friend recently told me that he instructed his daughter as to why men are paid more in her chosen profession – they’re able to perform the physical side of the job that women are not able to. From what I could see his daughter had no real objection to this.
            In other words – be there to tell the kids the facts of life. As it is sans all the feminist make believe.
            This may not be enough to stem the flood of the belligerantly ignorant but something nonetheless.

            Anyway, just M O.

          • Shrek6

            Thanks Universe. I agree with what you say.

            Yes, most if not all moral lessons fall on the parents and in my experience, where there is a father in the home, the girls never dress provocatively, and the boys are much better behaved.

            Women, or mothers, seem to lack the ability to instil this sort of self-discipline in their children. Not sure if it is a gender thing, but it most certainly is there.
            I guess this is one reason why children need both parents present in their lives, for the entirety of the parents lives. We never stop learning, and our elderly parents have much to teach us.

            Feminism has all but destroyed the moral compass of most women in society. Yes, I would go as far as saying the same about most so-called normal or non-feminist women are included in that statement. Very few women, seem to be able to see dangers in any of their behaviours or what they allow their children to get up to. They seem to live their lives on the “Feelings Philosophy” that has been the main tool by feminists to change all of society’s parameters.

            Once upon a time we had laws or rules of thumb that we all adhered to, because breaching these rules would mean a negative impact on another person, plus ourselves at some point.

            Today, children, but girls mostly, have been told that there are no rules and that they can do and have whatever they want. That there are no consequences for them to bear.
            If it feels good, then it is okay. Or if your feelings are hurt, then you can use the law to punish this person and you won’t have to face your own responsibilities in this matter either.

            And of course we all now know that the most obvious consequences have been the destruction of the family unit, the father/child relationship and of course a gender divide that is greater than the Pacific Swamp.
            (Sorry for saying swamp, what can I say, I’m an Ogre!)

            Seriously though, we will never see any changes, in my opinion, until we get many more women of good character to help out, plus we can actually get the word out there to get the majority of men who have their heads buried, to actually stand up and start fighting for their children’s future.

            Taking down parasites like Flood and his cohort is one step in the right direction, but more so, we must continue to do our damnedest to educate our children so they grow up with an intact moral compass!

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

            I will target those same schools with AvFM posters, if I cop a fine I will pay it, the posters and stickers will never stop untill Flood and Co are cleaning toilet bowls with for a living.

            A small sample of my work below.

            https://www.facebook.com/KARMA.MRA.MGTOW/photos_stream

      • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

        You’re 17? I get it. You’re probably a really smart kid, but still got some learning to do. One thing I suggest is to realize that your words will be used against you by people like this, especially because you are male and especially because you question the dodgy statistics and hateful malevolent sexist tripe that people like Flood have made careers (i.e. significant money and power) peddling.

        If they can paint you as a violent criminal who needs to be arrested, they will.

        Here is also a simple fact of life: you can go into any of dozens of forums dominated by feminists and women of other stripes who will say all sorts of horrific things about visiting violence upon men, castration, even going so far as to advocate eugenics and genocide against men, and no one will call them out on it (except maybe us). You, on the other hand, can make an offhand remark that you’d like to punch a guy in the mouth, and there will be hordes of people declaring you a “violent MRA” and will call for government censorship, having your career or even just the career of people you know destroyed, even potentially YOUR PARENTS (NO I AM NOT KIDDING) put in jail because you are “dangerous.”

        This is our experience, and our burden.

        Are there times in this world where violence is justified? Yes. But in this area, we’re far away from such a situation, and indeed, any use of violence would only beget a disproportionate response anyway. A man who practices violence in the name of the men’s movement is the enemy of men and boys so far as I’m concerned.

        A year or so ago, one man so desperate in his pain at separation from his children by the brutal family court system SET HIMSELF ON FIRE, died, and was called a “violent terrorist” for it. For KILLING HIMSELF. That’s just how evil some who criticize us are. Our requirement in response is to hold ourselves to a higher standard.

        At least, that is the standing editorial policy here. No hard feelings and nothing personal.

      • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

        Just wanted to say I am glad you are back posting here. I appreciate the email you sent, which was far more mature than any I have gotten before from people who have been warned.

        Some people are 17 going on 40, some are 40 going on 4.

  • harrywoodape

    So they want to reduce us? They want to reduce my son? Is that fucking right? Come get some.

    • Sting Chameleon

      As Mr. Nukem would say “It’s time to kick ass and chew bubblegum. And I’m all out of gum”.

  • Howard Beale

    Flood is an ideological zealot who needs to be exposed and discredited. [Who writes a PhD on why heterosexual men don't wear condoms?]

    How dangerous he currently is in Australia’s radical feminist controlled government can be seen in the citations of his “research” propaganda used to justify Gillard’s family violence amendments to the Family Law which underhandedly & unilaterally repealed shared parenting in Australia.

    I repeat my comment from the Fathers4Equality blog article “”Michael Flood – when equality becomes the new enemy of Feminism ”
    http://www.f4e.com.au/blog/2011/11/17/michael-flood-when-equality-becomes-the-new-enemy-of-feminism/

    Comment by Michael Flood:
    Howard Beale gets a whole bunch of things wrong. In brief;
    My material on false allegations of violence and abuse came from a published journal article, not a ‘blog’, though I also summarised it for a ‘fact sheet’ I put up on the website XY.
    In relation to the Wikipedia page, I was the one who recommended it for deletion, after the page turned into hate text. But Wikipedia editors argued for its retention.
    I’ve never instructed anyone to lie in Family Court.
    I did edit the page anonymously, but did so out of naivety rather than dishonesty. More recently I’ve created a Wikipedia log-in and used this. (Yes, go read the Wikipedia discussion to see this history.)
    As for being a metrosexual, feminised wanker, I’m guilty as charged.
    Cheers,
    Michael Flood.

    Howard Beale reply:
    The essay format appears to be causing Dr Flood some difficulty. We don’t want anyone to miss out on credit marks simply because they’re unable to answer simple and straightforward questions, so let’s make it a dot-point and answer format.

    1. “My material on false allegations of violence and abuse came from a published journal article, not a ‘blog’, though I also summarised it for a ‘fact sheet’ I put up on the website XY”

    Hmm, strangely you don’t name the journal or mention peer-review. Which roughly translates to it was thrown in the crap bin.

    But wait! Let’s follow the link!

    Here’s a tip for those playing along at home: Google “Senate Report family violence bill” and see what’s on page 38 in particular the footnote 79.

    FOR THE RECORD
    “… the clear and succinct synopsis of the research in this area prepared and appropriately referenced by Dr Michael Flood, a sociologist at the University of Wollongong:

    He concludes that child abuse allegations in the context of family law proceedings have been researched in four* Australian studies and have found that:

    – False allegations are rare;
    – The allegations rarely are made for tactical advantage;
    – Any such allegation rarely results in the denial of parental
    contact.

    In relation to [the] myth about false accusations of domestic violence and misuse of protection orders he again analyses the research succinctly and concludes:

    – Most allegations of domestic violence in the context
    of family law proceedings are made in good faith and
    with support and evidence of their claims;
    – Women living with domestic violence often do not
    take out protection orders and do so only as a last resort;
    – Protection orders provide an effective means of
    reducing women’s vulnerability to violence.[79]

    [Fuck me. Is this boofhead on heavy duty lithium or what?
    Flood, how much of that shit are you taking]

    [79] see Dr Michael Flood, ‘Fact Sheet #2: The myth of women and false accusations of domestic violence and rape and misuse of protection orders’, available at:
    http://www.xyonline.net/content/fact-sheet-2-myth-women’s-false-accusations-domestic-violence-and-misuse-protection-orders (accessed 26 July 2011); Dr Michael Flood, ‘Fact Sheet #1: The myth of false accusations of child abuse’, available at:
    http://www.xyonline.net/content/fact-sheet-1-myth-false-accusations-child-abuse (accessed 26 July 2011)”

    So the Senate Report identifies Flood’s personal blog, XYonline, as the source for the material considered in its recommendations. The lead researcher personally confirmed verifying the online hyperlink supplied.

    And this Committee [chaired by Ms Crossin (Status of Women spokesperson), Ms Pratt (married to a transman), Ms Siewart (brainfart)] concludes at page 61 paragraph 3.169

    “… the committee accepts the research findings of Dr
    Michael Flood and, in particular, the finding that false
    allegations are rarely made.”

    The determining factor for our most important social policy, the future of our children, and the sacrifice of our justice system is the propaganda “women don’t lie and men deny allegations to further abuse women”.

    This was googled off the personal blog of Australia’s #1 pro-feminist manhater Michael Flood – a self-confessed liar who claims to be puerile naïve (at 40 years of age).

    [Small wonder the Green/ALP controlled Senate passed a guillotine motion the night before the Family Violence Bill was scheduled for debate, this allowed 2hrs scrutiny for 5 bills, voted to adjourn the Senate 3 days early – despite the legislative overload used to justify the guillotine – to avoid any question time and sacked AG McClellan

    • Sasha

      Great points. It reminds me of the speech by Phil Davies MP at Westminster (the story’s elsewhere on AVfM) where he tore into the shoddy research, unsupported assertions and generally half-assed pseudo-science that feminists base nearly all their demands on.

      I had an interesting one over on reddit/mens rights where there was a discussion about an Intel advert for Inter’l Women’s Day which claimed that it was a good idea to invest in girls education because ‘women re-invest 90% of their income in their families, but men just 10%’.

      Blow me, I thought, where’s that figure come from? A bit of internet research later revealed that Intel’s source was The Nike Foundation whose source was a UN report, whose source was the OECD, whose source was an article in the Yale Daily News about a speech a feminist academic gave where she said it. I emailed her, and ten minutes later she came back and said ‘I must have been misquoted, I know of no study that says that.”

      Unbelievable. For the past decade this figure has been used by organisations like the UN, World Bank and OECD, to justify the investment of tens of millions of dollars, and when you try and track down the source you find out it’s completely made up.

      • Aimee McGee

        Sasha, that would make a great short article

        • TigerMan

          You beat me to it Aimee as I was going to say the same thing! ;)

          • Sasha

            Hmm…yeah, yeah alright go on then I will. And frankly you’re all going to regret getting me started on my favourite topic of ‘statistics that are completely f**king made up but which just won’t die’. I might do something in the form of ten rules, like…

            1. If a source is ‘various UN statistics’ treat with caution.

            Ever been told that ‘women are one half of the world population, one third of the workforce; do two-thirds of the work; but according to some estimates receive only one-tenth of the world income and possess less than one-hundredth of world property?” Well, what ‘according to some estimates’ actually means is ‘Krishna Ahooja-Patel, a UN statistician in Geneva, admitted in 2007 to pulling this out of her ass, but it’s easily memorable, so we’ve been using it ever since.”

            After all, as Phillip Cohen says: “In the U.S. in 2009, the 106 million women who had incomes averaged $29,700 each. I think that’s $3.2 trillion. The whole world’s gross domestic product — a rough measure of total income — is $58.1 trillion. So, it looks to me like U.S. women ALONE earn 5.4% of world income.”

            Because some countries are socialist, some work is unpaid, some – if not most – property is communal, I frankly haven’t a clue what the real figures behind this statistic are, but I DO know that these figures aren’t right.

            etc.

  • TPH

    I have some real concerns about the young men who will be affected by Michael Flood’s campaign to further demonize the male sex. The proof of his academic merit has been called into the open and has been shown to be lacking and even fraudulent when the data was analyzed.

    The facts and Michael Floods research do not support each other and that is a definite credibility issue for Michael Flood. I suspect that is why he has come ‘a Callin to AVFM. He needs to find some dirt or statement that can be twisted out of context to support his views.

    Michael Flood’s connection with anti-male genocide advocates cannot be ignored. This is a situation that need to be investigated. The man is not stupid, nor is he easily sidelined as a radical nut job. He has an audience that listens to him and that is a danger to us all.

    Bending statistics to suit a desired outcome is no big surprise to anyone. Using flawed statistics and unbalanced argument as a logical truth is academic malfeasance. There is another term for that view and behavior: Feminism.

    • Sasha

      Didn’t the SPLC and Arthur Goldwag have some connection with radical feminists too? These rats all stick together don’t they?

  • Patrick Henry

    Some more advertising for AVfM. That’s great, we didn’t need to do a fundraiser or anything.

  • keyster

    You pre-empted his pre-emptive strike.
    Very clever.

    Flood is an opportunist before anything else.
    He’s sees the market for female suffering, and realizes how easy it is for a male to exploit it. Our own Hugo Schwyzer is the poor man’s Michael Flood.

    • Sasha

      Yep. Thought it’s not really a ‘market for female suffering’, it’s a market for pandering to women’s illusions of suffering.

      Hugo Schwyzer; tried to murder his ex, slept with four girls he was chaperoning on a college trip, teaches workshops on ‘the myth of male vulnerability’. Michael Flood; distorts statistics and admits to fraudulently passing himself off as a campaigner for fathers to troll and discredit them.

      Fuck me, feminists really do know how to pick ‘em don’t they? Don’t they ever look around at their male fellow-travellers and think; “Hold on, if this is who’s on our side exactly what’s wrong with this picture?”

      It wouldn’t matter if they didn’t cause such havoc.

  • Doc

    “Radical Profeminist, where the subject of extermination of 90% of the male population is openly discussed.

    And who exactly would carry this out? I, and every other man that I know, have enough fire-power and knowledge of how chemistry operates that it seems relatively simple as to exactly WHO would win in that scenario, and it wouldn’t be the wussies who advocate such things.

    Pick up a weapon, and you are a target, and you will NOT be walking, crawling, or otherwise doing more than decaying from where you took action. So if that is what women actually wanted, they would quickly be tucked away in the harem of the men that survived and be bred – happily ever after. Since that is what women really want for all of their whining to the contrary – a man who takes control and doesn’t put up with their non-sense.

  • http://none universe

    Looks like various members of the WRC and Australian government are playing the carnival pea-under-the-shell game – a contestant wagers or bets that they can locate the shell with the pea under it after the the shells have been vigourously shuffled.
    The good shell manipulators always know which is the pea`d shell and most carnival goers, not accustomed to the rapid movement, do not. The object of the game is to match wits with the shell shuffler through one`s observational skills to locate the ‘marked’ shell. The bad shell manipulators lose their edge and the witted observers trump both the shell pusher and the game. Shell manipulator pays out too much of their own money by continually loosing the wager and eventually closes shop.
    In the real life game that politics and ‘gender’ politics are, those who aren`t familiar with either game, the public, lose almost every time. That`s where the majority public are in real time terms of the `gender game` – on the losing side of the game for lack of familiarity with the whole process. However, a skilled observer of the shell shuffle and, more importantly, of the pea itself can effect the entire game. They’ll know not only where the pea is but why it was put there. Sleight of hand.
    However, both the manipulative shell shufflers financially enabled by manipulators in government still operate shop. But, not forever.

    Great work with piecing the obfuscation into cohesion Paul. Invaluable service.

  • Ben

    Wow, another great one, Paul!

    “…he simply corrected the faulty numbers after the damage was done, and now calls it a minor mistake.”

    Isn’t that a recurring theme with the IPV ideologues? Just like Christina Hoff Summers said, once such a large body of egregiously false information is out there, even when attempts are made to retract it, it cannot be reversed (paraphrased). Ideologues use that phenomenon as a weapon to imprint society with false information.

    Why do mistakes in IPV statistics only occur in one direction? The laws of probability would suggest that we should be seeing an approximately even distribution of mistakes in reporting, with some favoring one’s own agenda while others err to the contrary. However, all “mistakes” seem to mysteriously dovetail with the man-bad-woman-good paradigm of academia and feminism.

    I really would like to have a face-to-face with Michael Crud to give him a piece of my mind. I, for one, am tired of being harassed for my sex, semester after semester, with WRC and the strategically placed propagandistic “mistakes” people like him perpetrate on this particular campus and elsewhere.

    You might find it hard to believe but, as I walked back from class just today, I picked up yet another piece of feminist propaganda on this campus. It was about domestic violence. It pointed out that boys who grow up in abusive households are twice as likely to become abusers themselves while girls are twice as likely to become the victims of abuse… Yeah… And that glaring hypocrisy goes right over everyone’s heads — no raised eyebrows, no dissent, not even a passing critique by ANYONE.

  • Railstar

    One in three boys (33%) believe that ‘most physical violence occurs in dating because a partner provoked it’, compared to 25% of girls (NCP 2001: 65).

    I read this question and realised a “yes” answer here would not necessarily indicate violence by boys or against girls. That 33% could be boys who blame themselves for violence committed by their girlfriends.

    • Aimee McGee

      Good response, I wonder how they phrased the questin

  • Theseus

    Hey everybody, I know this is a little off topic but could some of you head over to Huffington Post ( hey sometimes they have a good arts section)? There is a Feminist named Soraya Chemaly with an article “50 Actual Facts About Rape”. Yeah, I know. I know.

    She tried to tie in some of the (in my opinion silly) things that Republicans have said about abortion lately into a lot of these bogus “facts” she pulled out of her ass.

    I posted a response there saying that these stats are a separate issue entirely and I questioned her sources. I don’t know if they put it up.

    A lot of impressionable people are reading this stuff, let’s see if we can get some more dissenting rational views on there. Sorry, I spaced on the direct link.

    • Rex

      I saw at least one post along those lines, I added another.

      “I agree she mentioned it, but in a condescending [i] men can be victims too but…[/i] sort of way. She acknowledges that the definition previously did not acknowledge male victims at all but fails to point out that there is a serious gap in the current system.
      From her link in #32
      “The new provision will define rape as any kind of penetration of another person, regardless of gender, without the victim’s consent. It also includes a broad range of rapes involving both males and females in which attackers use objects to penetrate their victims.”
      This means that a rape is not a rape when a rapist uses her vagina. If you think this is an inconsequential minority ill direct you here:
      http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf
      Page 18 and 19 break down sexual violence and in this year the estimated number of female rape victims was 1,270,000 the estimated number of male victims was of course zero. but buried down in the “other sexual violence” category is Made to penetrate at 1,267,000 showing a rate of near parity between the genders if “rape” is defined as forcing a partner to have sex as opposed to forcibly inserting something in your partner. I would love to call this “rape apologism” but under the current political climate all i can say is that it is “other sexual violence” apologism, however It is equally disgusting.”

      hoping it sticks

      also direct link:
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/soraya-chemaly/50-facts-rape_b_2019338.html

      • MarkofWisdom

        One of the ones that stuck out the most to me – “19-
        State seeking to reduce childcare welfare benefits to women cannot provide proof of their pregnancy-causing rapes: Pennsylvannia”-typo hers
        So let me get this straight-there is a state that is trying to reduce the amount of fraudulent claims for welfare based on pregnancy caused by rape if said rape can’t be proved? How is this a bad thing? It is trying to make sure money isn’t wasted and isn’t being taken by people committing fraud.
        Another was “39- Country where women are imprisoned for being raped: Afghanistan”
        Perhaps she should look up the country where men can be imprisoned or executed for being raped? There are multiple African countries that do this, and unlike the situation in Afghanistan-if that even actually happens-people don’t give a damn about the men trapped in the hellish situation in Africa. Nope all support goes to women who may or may not exist in a country known for being less than reliable with making sure foreign aid goes to it’s intended recipient.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      For the past TWO DECADES, Republicans have relentlessly won elections by whipping up sex offender furor, fear mongering unConstitutional laws such as sex offender registration, housing restrictions, school bans, park bans, library bans, halloween restrictions, passing out fliers and forcing those publicly registered to post front yard signs declaring themselves dangersous, and inscribing the words SEX OFFENDER in large red letters across driver’s licences even though any cop at any can immediately access that information.

      Republican lawmakers and celebrity victims such as John Walsh, Ed Smart, Mark Lunsford have made themselves millions promoting GPS tracking systems, Offender sites and Phone aps, not to mention billion dollar boondoggle legislation that has proven ineffective except to fan the fears of soccer moms.

      Republicans have whipped Democrat’s butt with “SOFT ON CRIME” claims, and shredded Constitutional rights for the accused mercilessly.

      Now Democrats are decreeing themselves the protector of women and Republicans condoners of rape and violence against women!

      UN-FREAKING-BELIEVABLE!!!!

      War on women? This is a double barreled full out war on MEN and BOYs.

      • Theseus

        Exactly. Got it coming from both sides.

        Don’t get me started on the burgeoning prison system, the war on drugs, the VAWA, family court ETC.

        Can’t stand the epidemic right wing and left wing fear mongering and witch hunting All directed at men and boys.

  • yurlungur

    Women get awarded equal pay for equal level of work:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2223292/I-d-mop-floor-heavy-dustbins-cold-What-lunacy-insist-jobs-paid-same.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2222441/174-women-win-Supreme-Court-equal-pay-fight-Birmingham-council-paying-bonuses-men.html

    Comments on those articles are un-moderated.

    It’s not equal pay for the same pay it’s equal pay for different jobs.

    The previous government in it’s infinite wisdom decided to grade levels of work.

    So now women who’s jobs are in the same bracket of worth can claim they’ve been discriminated against because they didn’t receive the same pay and benefits.

    Will the men who worked the same job as the women be entitled to compensation as well? Or will this unfair compensation only be awarded to the women.

    • Sasha

      No it’s worse than that. Women in the UK public sector are making equal pay claims dating back to the 1970s. This is under the Equal Pay Act 1974 What no one ever seems to point out is that until 1999 the UK paid a Widow’s Pension if a husband died, but not a Widower’s pension if a wife died; this left an estimated 15,000 UK men each year impoverished. Also, even today the state retirement age is not equal, and it will not be until 2024. Men received their state pension five years later than women, until quite recently and even now it’s three years.

      These were two incentives to pay men more – because they’d be earning it for longer, and if they died their wives and families would still benefit from his National Insurance contributions. There is no move to compensate many millions of men for this systematic discrimination they have endured for several decades, and which continues in lesser form to this day.

      Why is that I wonder? Oh yes, it might be because, as men die younger, most of the men who might object are dead.

  • Bev

    Dr Flood is no longer at The University of Woolongong he has moved (yet again) to James Cook university in Townsville (a hot bed of radical feminism). Here is part of his cv from Woolongong.

    “Dr Flood is an established researcher with a strong national and international reputation. Dr Flood has an extensive record of publication, with a total of 24 journal articles and 14 book chapters, 17 research monographs, and over 80 other publications. His research has attracted close to $900,000 of external funding”

    Don’t they say follow the money.

    Further:

    “He is the co-founder and Co-Director of the Centre for Research on Men and Masculinities (CROMM), the first research centre in Australia focused on this field of scholarship. He is the lead editor of an international encyclopedia on men and masculinities (Routledge), he has presented invited papers at international gatherings held at the United Nations (New York) and the United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific (UNESCAP) (Bangkok), and he has contributed by invitation to various reference and expert groups (including for the Australian Burea of Statistics, the Human Rights Commission, the NRL, and the AFL).”

    He has spread his poison far and wide.

    It is interesting that despite this write up he did not last long at this university and moved yet again.

    http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/ssmac/staff/UOW084229.html

    About CROMM

    “The governing aim of the Centre for Research on Men and Masculinities is to advance the critical study of men and masculinities and provide an interdisciplinary centralised focus for initiating, developing and sustaining research on and about men and masculinities through engagement with internal and external researchers and research centre’s.

    CROMM locates itself primarily within the overlapping fields of Women’s and Gender Studies and Sexuality and Queer Studies and as an advocate for feminist scholarship. CROMM’s research will contribute to scholarship in these fields and to social theory more generally.”

    http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/research/cromm/about/index.html

    So it is not about men but about pushing a feminist view of men and “re-educating” men and boys to suit a feminist agenda..

  • SeaforthCJ

    On AssaultonourFutureFinal.pdf giveing a 404, do you guys want a copy?

    Edit :-
    Second time I posted this. First time i attached halfway up the tree and I assumed I had clicked the wrong reply link by mistake. Deleted tried again, definitely the right reply (Bottom of the page). Did it again, something borked in your site guys?

  • Astrokid

    Only tangentially related:
    In the linked Michael Flood lecture on Victim and Power feminism, it starts off
    – INTRODUCTION –
    In the early to mid-1990s, several commentators on feminism and the women’s movement made the argument that contemporary feminism was dominated by a focus on women as victims. This argument was made for example by Naomi Wolf in Fire with fire (1993), Katie Roiphe in The morning after (1993), and Rene Denfeld in The new Victorians (1995).
    This criticism echoes earlier criticisms of feminism, and especially of those strands of feminism concerned with physical and sexual violence.

    I hadnt heard of Rene Denfeld, and I just listened to a CSPAN discussion from 1995 with NOW’s Kim Gandy, where she says that she’s a feminist, and complains about “extremism in women’s studies thats putting off young women, and prevents them calling themselves feminists.. and most women dont call themselves feminists for that reason”.
    Reminds me of this article from a few days ago
    ONLY ONE IN SEVEN WOMEN WOULD CALL THEMSELVES A FEMINIST.
    But nothings stopped them from enacting one legislation after another.. None of the criticism from outsider women.. i.e conservative scholars.. has had any impact either.
    What are we to make of this? women by and large pretend that they are against feminist excesses, but are more than happy to make use of all the laws and policies enacted?

    • SeaforthCJ

      “What are we to make of this? women by and large pretend that they are against feminist excesses, but are more than happy to make use of all the laws and policies enacted?”…

      I’m sure there’s a manosphere term for this, but I can’t be bothered googling at the moment.

      They way I think about it is this, I’m a working class guy from Little Italy from the time of your favorite Scorsese movie. I’m honest and hardworking but I know a few shady characters from my childhood and we still get along. Suddenly the barman at my favorite bar is giving me lots of free drinks and nibbles. He’s having problems with the local wise guy’s and wants to keep them and their friends sweet. I know this, and explain that I’m not one of them but the drinks keep coming. Even though I know that it drives up prices for everyone, and the bar could close as a result, do I have a moral obligation to pay for my beer and nibbles? I think yes, but not everyone would.

  • John A

    Here we go again…

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/paid-domestic-violence-leave-setting-a-world-standard-20121026-28b1w.html

    The Workplace Relations Minister, Bill Shorten, commended the employers that had signed up to the leave.
    ”It is pleasing that where society silently ignored domestic violence, we are increasingly willing to speak out against its perpetrators and support its victims. This should extend to the workplace,” he said.
    ”If you don’t oppose domestic violence and support women, then you are part of the problem.”

    The last sentence says it all – another flood of anti-male legislation.

  • http://thereluctantmysogynist.blogspot.ca/ limeywestlake

    Sorry: OT but necessary. A post from Iron Man on the forum:

    Hello all. For those of you who did not catch the show on AVfM radio last night you might still be unaware that Eric Duckman, a tireless crusader for the MRM, has found himself in dire straits. As we all know, he was arrested for spray painting the AVfM logo on a subway station located in Edmonton, Canada several months ago. With some help, he managed to pay the fine which resulted from the offense. Now, the state could have just let it go, taxes being what they are graffiti removal would undoubtedly be included in any responsible city budget. To that end, they have charged Eric Duckman: twelve hundred dollars. This sum is roughly twice as much as the initial fine. While the city claims this is a removal fee, I cannot imagine any reasonable contractor charging this amount for paint remover, brushes, and a few hours work. I think you see why this exorbitant fee is being charged. We cannot just let one of our own be swallowed up by the system. I am asking anyone reading this message, friendly to the MRM, to visit Eric Duckman’s site and donate as much as you can towards paying off this outrageous fee. I don’t think I need to tell anyone what will happen to him if that fine goes unpaid.

    http://mensrightsedmonton.com/

    Please, please help Eric. I know him personally and he is a very committed MRA and a really nice guy. Even $5 will help…

    OK – back on topic.

    • TigerMan

      Donated – thanks for letting us know about this. :)

    • scatmaster

      Donated

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

    SMH/Theage fairfax will pay for the last 30 years I will campaign them into the grave…

    • TigerMan

      Excellent work – please let us know as time goes on of any reactions positive or negative. :)

  • gwallan

    re the “respectful relationships” programs….

    In those age groups there are as many male victims as there are female. Whilst most of those female victims will have been abused by men the boys are just as likely to have been abused by either sex.

    I wonder how those pre-existing male victims, particularly those abused by a woman, are expected to hear and understand this stuff. It frightens me to think about how I might have dealt – more likely not dealt – with something like this in the aftermath of the abuse by my aunt. I can’t see how it could have a positive outcome for any boy who is a pre-existing victim. Maybe it will prepare them for the messages they’ll keep hearing later on about how lucky they were.

    Unfortunately the potential harm in the target demographic isn’t limited to existing victims. Note that it includes pre-pubescent boys. Whether they intend to shame boys or not is moot. They ARE being singled out as the bad ones. Shame will be the outcome for many of them. The unfortunate conjunction of shame and sexuality is one of the very problematic elements for victims of sexual assault and a huge challenge for many. Make no mistake that some of the boys who go through these programs will later have very similar symptoms to those of actual rape victims.

    Personally, and not really keen to admit it, reading about this program has made me a little nauseous. I was certainly aware of it’s presence previously but even thinking about it is something that causes me difficulty. I can’t effectively advocate against these programs in my own community because the whole thing upsets me too much. My own experience was relatively mild compared to those of many of the victims I’ve come to know. Imagining some of them, or kids with similar experiences, forced into a program such as these in proximity to their abuse is heart rending for me.

    There is some irony to these programs and it relates to the environment in which it takes place. Among female perpetrators of child sexual abuse nearly ten percent are in teaching roles in the commission of their abuse. For male perpetrators it’s fewer than one percent. Even though male perps commit three times as many acts as female perps overall the most likely in a school setting is a woman by a significant margin. The most likely student victim of an adult molester in a school is a boy by an even greater margin. The tone of these programs will infringe upon the ability of boys to deal with those women who may be aggressive in this way. It will do so in the midst of an environment where they are already the most likely victims and follow them onward into their adult lives.

    Ultimately there is a breathtaking level of empathy aparthied in play.

    • John A

      Women and men, boys and girls – they are equally good and bad. The difference being that the bad females get sympathy, while the male victims are invisible.

      The way those boys are treated, many will blame themselves for the abuse they receive. For victims of abuse: it is never your fault – unless you are male.

  • TigerMan

    If you look at human relations from a humanitarian perspective then you must treat BOTH sexes respectfully as human beings and not try single out one sex (and/or sexual preference) as a scapegoat for the ills suffered by the other. In this respect Micheal Flood is not part of the solution but rather indeed a creator of the problem.
    Shame on all those in public office who ignore the frauds and misrepresentations of his work when it is made clear and even more shame on those who try to deny their existence!

    • TigerMan

      BTW Paul in my last response I forgot to pay tribute to the painstaking work that obviously went into your article.
      With articles of such clarity maybe one day enough folks will know that the “Empress” is indeed butt naked and all involved in it’s vast fraud will be exposed for what they are.

  • TigerMan

    The establishment in many nations of the West has enabled a socio-political orthodoxy that unfortunately includes some very divisive and toxic sexual politics adhered to as “credo”.
    This toxic ca-ca is en-wrapped in the finer language of egalitarian expression as if indeed it was a true expression of humanitarian concern. For example if a man beats a woman it is a “gendered” act but if the reverse occurs it is just an exception to the rule.
    Thus does private actions become political for one sex whilst for the other they are anomalies to be conveniently explained away or minimised if pressed.
    It is against this kind of toxic backdrop that even dishonest incompetents like Micheal Flood can thrive.
    In other words they can thrive with their lies because our very orthodoxy and establishment has become corrupt at it’s core. Since the MSM is largely complicit in this the only right if reply the person in the street has to these lies and divisive falsehoods is that afforded by world wide web.
    Another reason of course to be wary of government attempts to censor and limit freedoms of speech and expression.
    Such wariness and concern should also be extended to partial definitions of what comprises “hate speech” and convenient get out clauses by used of partial definitions of “protected groups” i.e. making it open season on all HUMAN beings not belonging to a “protected group” etc.
    In many respects Micheal Flood is indeed the true face of what has replaced true egalitarianism and humanism for a Frankenstein birth born of political expediency.
    Still “masn’t gramble” as my cockney friends might say! :)

  • Tawil

    UKMan posted this link on another thread, showing a violent woman openly battering a man in public and attempting to bash others as well. It is all caught on camera, see here:
    http://bit.ly/SfWTS0

    This is a good video to post on the Flood thread. Notice the violent female batters an older man physically and tells a younger man she is going to bash him too and he replies “I do not hit girls”.

    Throwing this woman off the train was the best way to highlight the slogan, “I refuse to commit, condone or remain silent about violence… against men and boys.”

    Even when the woman was removed from the train she pulled what we might call the “Michael Flood trick” by claiming that it was her that had been assaulted.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

    “Perhaps the one contribution of mainstream outlets, before they die off altogether, will be to inform their dwindling audience that we are out here speaking the truth.”

    Bingo! :)

    That’s always been my goal, to make TV radio and newspapers a museum piece. Private and Government owned.

    Fairfax media is nothing but a used condom to me…

    I will continue to recruit young males, turn them against the main stream media, thus denying them a future customer base.

    If I have to do this out of the back of my car so be it.

    • Booyah

      had a doorknocker boygirl knock on my door recently to survey my media watching habits recently. “what do you watch on TV?” “I dont watch the lying feminist controlled main stream media” “what newspapers do you read?” “I dont read the lying feminist controlled main stream media” Judging by the rapid scuttling of boygirl back down my driveway, I dont think my results were recorded and big media will once again be left wondering why no-one watches it anymore. Not my problem *shrugs* You are an inspiration sir and a model us other aussie mra’s should very much emulate.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

    Voluntary.

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism-page/karma/ KARMA MRA MGTOW

    Correct video below

    • Tawil

      Karma, what a gemstone that video is. Admire her wisdom and her compassion for boys.

    • TigerMan

      The humanity of the woman just shines through and that quality tends to get my attention. Her words are not bent to suit a prejudiced mind but rather in service to her sense of dignity and humanity and I always find words delivered that way inspiring to listen to even if they might reveal and challenge unacknowledged biased preconceptions of my own.:)

  • bowspearer

    In many ways Flood has brilliantly succeeded here already, along with other gender academics. Once more he creates a polarised view by members of academia (largely negative) and in doing so, isolates and alienates the MRM from what is effectively the think tank of society and one of the greatest battlegrounds for this war to be won in.

    Yet just as Patriarchy is an idiotic notion on the grounds of viewing a group as a zeitgeist; so too is viewing academia in a similar way.

    Now don’t get me wrong, academics like Flood have become the “mainstream” in some regards, but they’re not the entirety of academic.

    Forgetting about Warren Farrel whom many of us know, when are we going to look at tenured academics like John Tosh, Stefan Dudink & Karen Hagemann.

    These are academics who have debunked the notion of patriarchy, pointed out the double standard of how male and female issues are viewed by society and examined the notion of hegemonic masculinities.

    All of these things are ground gained for us, yet why aren’t we promoting their work with the same zeal that we’re exposing Michael Flood?

    As long as people in the MRM continue to view academia as “the enemy” rather than the battleground where established and respected gender academics exist (one of my lecturers even positvitely brought Dudink and Hagemann up when discussing gender in a modern history class last semester) which we should be working with and adding to the work of, in order to change the system from within; we can never truly make the inroads we need.

    • TigerMan

      Whilst I do think AV4M under Pauls leadership is as roughly pro-active as it is reactive I also think you just provided some useful inspiration.
      I am also ashamed to admit that apart from Warren Farrel I had not heard of the other academics you mentioned.
      So thanks and once more Google shall be my friend. :)

      • bowspearer

        One thing I will deal with up front. They do deconstruct masculinity, but the fact is thjat masculinity needs to be deconstructed if we’re truly to understand not only the plight of men stemming from feminism, but the plight of men since antiquity. The problem in most cases has been that said deconstruction has been from a patriarchy-obsessed bias (making the whole thing an utter oxymoron in practice) rather than a masculinist bias.

        In fact the best way we can gain ground is by our own version of the Dolittle Raid and attacking gender feminist decinstructions of masculinity.

  • Carlos

    Feminism is the diarrhea of academia and Flood has a PhD in it (literally.)

    I appreciate the detailed article, though I think it suffices to simply say that this guy is, literally, full of shit.

  • TheDoctor

    Thanks for this great article, I’ve been looking into Mr.Flood for a while now and this WRC as it looks like a shaming tactic.