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Dr T: the siren song of crazy, toxic women

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Are you a crazy chick magnet? Does it seem like every woman you fall for eventually turns out to be unstable, destructive, toxic, controlling and abusive? Can’t figure out what you’re doing? Are you a rescuer of damsels in distress and birds with broken wings?

If you’re a woman, does it seem like every man to whom you’re attracted has a crazy ex he’s trying to get over? Does your partner have a crazy ex with whom he still struggles setting and enforcing boundaries? Are you a rescuer who rescues rescuers?

Are you wondering if you, in fact, may be the crazy one? Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired of your crazy-making relationship pattern?

Tune in to Shrink4Men Radio on the AVfM channel on Monday, October 3, 2011 at 9pm EST when your host, Dr Tara J. Palmatier of Shrink4Men.com, and her guest, Shari Schreiber, M.A. of GettinBetter.com, will discuss the attraction crazy, abusive and self-destructive women hold for some men. If you have questions or would like to share your experiences with Dr T and Shari, telephone lines will be open (+1 310 388 9709.)

 

About Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.

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  • http://lifespeculiarities.blogspot.com/ Izzey

    I am so happy I will be home for this show tonight!

    “Are you a rescuer who rescues rescuers?”
    lol

    I admit it…I was one, once.
    I entered a ‘rescuer detox’. Best thing that ever happened to me.
    ;)

    • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Looking forward, Izz!

      • Stu

        I suppose you could say that Dr T is the ultimate rescuer of rescuers…….mmmmmm……hey wait a sec…….i see whats going on here…….OMG…..I’m starting to see ROR women under my bed……..come to think of it……probably in my bed too. :)

        • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

          Yeah, but I don’t date rescuers! :)

        • Zorro

          Hey…Stu…the…ellipsis…is…not…a…punctuation…mark.

          Just…sayin’.

  • Stu

    Now lets see how this works. Guy is a rescuer of crazy pathetic disfunctional entitled princess bitches. Gets burned, chewed up and spat out, and then moves on to next bitch, who does the same. Then meets a rescuer of rescuer type……..and she does the same. Hey wait a sec…..the rescuer of rescuers is really just another looney bitch who poses as being different…….that’s her game plan……how to get the poor chewed up and spat out guy to get back on his feet and resume his bestowing all his worldly goods……she says……..poor baby……all those bitches that have used and abused you in the past……..what you need is a real woman……(me)……who will nurse you back to health and prosperity with lots of home cooking and blow jobs……..now……if you’ll just sign here on the dotted line we can proceed……..(snicker snicker) lol

    OMG……were you one of those women Izzey? :)

    I remember a conversation I was watching on a feminist ICQ channel years ago. A few feminists discussing the best options for single motherhood. One already had one child and had gotten rid of the father. Here is Australia, the child support is calculated like this………if a guy has one child to a woman he pays 18% of his gross income in child support…….if he has two children to the same woman it only goes to 26%……….three is 32%. This woman was saying she wanted three kids……….and it was better to have them to three different guys…….3 x 18% =54% vs 32% for having them to the same father. On top of that of course, subsidized housing at about one third of the cost of normal…..a sole parent pension……a heap of perks……discounted electricity……telephone….gas……free travel cards for public transport……free tertiary education programs…..no requirements to look for job……but special job placement programs and child care if you want one. None of the pension……child support……housing subsidy……etc is taxable…..and they can earn another few hundred a week on top before any reduction in benefits begins…….or tax. The government also paid an upfront payment of $3000 just for getting pregnant LOL

    I looked into what this woman was telling the others….and found that with everything taken into account…..a woman with three kids to three differnt fathers……each of whom had average weekly earnings…..had the equal of a net disposable income of well over $1000 per week.

    Add to the list of benefits if the woman claims DV, abuse, rape etc.

    Is it any wonder that women have absolutely no incentive to treat men in relationships with any respect.

    • Hayden Hanna

      Any man should be able to show up unannounced at the door of these professional welfare mom types and demand that she cook him a meal. Because he is already supporting her as de facto husband through his outrageous and unnecessary taxation, he should at least get a regular home cooked meal out of the deal. However, most of these single mom princesses consider spaghetti O’s cooking, so it would probably just be rubbing salt in the wound.

    • http://lifespeculiarities.blogspot.com/ Izzey

      “OMG……were you one of those women Izzey? ”

      Stu…did you notice I left out your smiley face?
      Stu…you added too many rescuers to your post.

      Izzey is not laughing.

      (yes she is)

      I rescued a rescuer…….ONE TIME.
      And now it’s show time…back later.

      ;)

  • Paul Elam

    Looking forward to listening to this one. There is a wealth of unspoken information about the sexual power of a lot of really crazy women. That is how a lot of BPD’s rope men in.

    Should be some good stuff.

  • Hayden Hanna

    You will read a lot of negative comments from me about female nature and feminism, but I will give credit where credit is due. After I was set adrift as burning wreckage from a near-marriage relationship with a 9 for 9 narcissist, it wad my ex-wife, with whom I maintain a relationship of mutual respect who threw me a lifevest by challenging the alternate reality of the narcissist.

    For the first year after the narcissist and in retrospect, I would have hated to be another human being attempting a relationship of any type with me. I don’t think it is healthy for them, but I have sympathy for the rescuer of rescuer, as they have their work cut out for them healing their man and fighting off the personality-disordered woman.

    I learned of Dr. T during the period of time in my life that the narcissist’s cancer felt like it was killing me. I firmly believe that there are parts of me her cancer did kill and will never be resurrected. Dr. T sits out there on the Internet like a blinding goddamn lighthouse for those other smoldering ships, and for that she has my eternal gratitute and respect. I don’t mean these things in some cheesy, fawning, kid with a crush kind of way. They are sincere, and I don’t miss a single damn chance to promote this wonderful lady’s work.

  • Merlin

    I don’t normally tune into Dr T’s show but found the recording this morning to be very interesting. What I did notice is that her guest healer had an opinion that healthy, self respecting men shouldn’t be with a BPD in the first place, so why is it some stay. Dr T also had a similar opinion and it was interesting to note that it was predominantly a female perspective. There was a suggestion of a chink in the armour, and some form of conditioning; maybe because of previous encounters with BPD’s in their past.

    Now what I will say to that is from my perspective as a man it’s not always easy to explain away with psychology. Sometimes, like Paul said…a cigar is simply just a cigar and nothing more. There’s nothing more deep rooted or mysterious at all. Sometimes it’s something far more practical.
    When I say practical, I mean sensible issues you have to take into consideration being the man in a modern relationship, where if things go sour, the woman is normally the one who comes up smelling of roses regardless.

    The man needs to take into account housing; where he’s going to live if there are kids involved. Money? how will he make ends meet in the event of a split, and could he support himself fully as well as a manipulative ex partner and the kids. It’s not as straight forward as “getting out” if you’re with an abusive partner when you’re a man. A man has to consider all the consequences of his actions when doing so; where as the woman has things pretty much sewn up, particularly if kids are involved. It’s a win, win for the woman every time.

    So to suggest that the man may have been conditioned, or maybe, even have some sort of addiction to BPD’s is too much of a sweeping statement. I agree with Paul in the respect it’s often a very simple answer where the man is concerned…and that is he’s trying to figure out what’s wrong and how to fix it. It basically proves he bloody cares and it doesn’t automatically label him as a BPD lover, or someone with fixation issues himself.

    • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

      Hi Merlin,

      I agree that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. However, I would say that a majority of the men I work with have issues that go straight back to childhood that makes the crazy behavior of their partners seem “normal.”

      When you combine that with the social messages men get about women and relationships, well, some of these men never stood a chance.

      • Merlin

        I think the reason they are seeking help from you is because underneath they know this behaviour is becoming tiresome and they need another perspective. This would suggest that they aren’t seeing this as normal, even despite social messages.

        We all wake up eventually I believe…it just takes some a little longer than others.

        • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

          Excellent point, Merlin.

  • Merlin

    When a man makes a decision on a woman it’s usually a physical attraction first and foremost. He see’s her across the room and thinks “Yeah, I like the look of her, and wouldn’t mind getting into her knickers”. It’s normally as straight forward as that. Not really anything complicated or any BPD fetish, just plain and simple, primal driven lust, depending on your taste in women. There are other forces at work, but the predominant factor in my humble opinion is it’s initial attraction and lust and nothing more.

    Bearing that in mind, I don’t believe in the theory of being attracted specifically to a BPD. That’s what you tend to find out after the initial flirting and usually accompanied sexual encounter. So, to say that someone consciously or unconsciously chooses a BPD in my opinion is open to question from a male perspective.
    Certainly if I think back on some of my relationships I’ve sometimes had a run of BPD’s, but I don’t give that any more thought other than a bad run of luck. I certainly didn’t go out of my way to find one or attract one, it was just the way they turned out to be.

    And, certainly after previous experience, and being single, I didn’t hang around too long to find out how bad it could potentially get. Anyway…that’s my two cents worth!

    • Boxer

      I don’t believe in the theory of being attracted specifically to a BPD. That’s what you tend to find out after the initial flirting and usually accompanied sexual encounter. So, to say that someone consciously or unconsciously chooses a BPD in my opinion is open to question from a male perspective.

      I definitely agree with this in part.

      Most normal men (normal in the normative sense, meaning common rather than necessarily balanced) sever ties with dysfunctional women early on. If I meet a woman who has lousy/no boundaries, poor impulse control or a dysfunctional view of life, I quit talking to her. This weeds out 90 percent of the crazies before you ever get into the bedroom stage. It doesn’t matter how hawt she is. If she’s nuts, then I tend to lose any sexual attraction straight off the bat.

      There is a small subset in the male community who actually remain attracted to the nutjobs, and I believe that the nutjobs actively (though perhaps not consciously) seek these men out in a frenzied orgy of dysfunctional neediness. Parasites tend to know their hosts instinctively.

      So in that (admittedly more complex) context, we could justify a discrete population of “rescuers”. These men think that they are put on Earth to “help the less fortunate” and their pattern of bad relationships is their calling card, the outward manifestation of their neurosis.

      The only thing I disagree with Dr. Palmatier on is the ability to help them (in my experience, these types are incredibly resistant to change) and the ethical responsibility to try to help someone who is so deeply caught in a complex that suggests he’s on some crusade to help someone from herself. People usually do this because they have problems themselves, and they do it as an excuse to keep from working on their own problems. It’s a lot easier to get into a relationship with someone who is deeply screwed up, and then make that poor dear the focus of your consciousness, than it is to admit you’re not a perfect fella and take the appropriate steps to make your own life a little better. It is an interesting discussion though, and I’m grateful it’s being had.

      • http://www.shrink4men.com/ Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

        The only thing I disagree with Dr. Palmatier on is the ability to help them (in my experience, these types are incredibly resistant to change) and the ethical responsibility to try to help someone who is so deeply caught in a complex that suggests he’s on some crusade to help someone from herself. People usually do this because they have problems themselves, and they do it as an excuse to keep from working on their own problems. It’s a lot easier to get into a relationship with someone who is deeply screwed up, and then make that poor dear the focus of your consciousness, than it is to admit you’re not a perfect fella and take the appropriate steps to make your own life a little better. It is an interesting discussion though, and I’m grateful it’s being had.

        Exactly right, Boxer. When I encounter a man who won’t let go of the rescuer impulses and who isn’t willing to look at his own issues that are causing him to stay in such a destructive relationship, I typically end treatment. I’m not interested in wasting my time or anyone else’s. There are plenty of therapists out there who are more than willing to let their clients hang out and hide out in the therapy office week after week, month after month, year after year.

  • BeijaFlor

    Izzey: Rescuer detox?

    That’s new to me, and yet I wonder if I might need it.

    Not that I get into “rescue-based” relationships; I don’t get into relationships, period. But I’ve got issues in the “gotta-fix-it” department, and I am also a recovering guru….

  • KatieCaliente

    If only the self destruction could be sped up, right?

    We could bunker it out :)

  • keyster

    The cigar will first wait until you’re emotionally invested enough in the puffing of it, before it reveals the tainted tobacco. This is why sometimes lighting from the other end is wise.