Radio-Update1122

AVfM Radio: Rape Fantasy

We live in a society that exists in a very strange dichotomy where it concerns rape. On one hand it is a criminal offense that sometimes leaves lasting psychological damage to victims, regardless of their sex. On the other hand, for a great many women, likely even the majority, the fantasy of rape is a source of intense sexual arousal.

It is an area where the lines seem to blur and a split occurs, not in the social or legal arena, but between the mind and the body of woman being raped.

One psychotherapist, a victim of rape herself, reported that not only did she experience an orgasm during her rape, but that some of the clients also reported similar experiences.

What does this say about the human condition? Is sexual aggression hard wired into the species as a part of reproductive strategy? Is the rape “fantasy” just a deeply embedded remnant; an expression of the common sexual psyche of female humans?

It is a tough subject, but it is on for tonight on AVfM Radio. And tonight the show will be hosted by Girl Writes What and Paul Elam, teaming up together for the first time to take their shot at cracking this very tough nut.

The show starts at 8:00 PM Central Time, 9:00 PM Eastern. The call in number is 310-388-9709.

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  • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

    Ok, this subject has always drove me batty. Because either way; the concept of a “rape fantasy” is insane. Possibly Arkham Asylum criminally insane? Either way, I am afraid if it is false; but more afraid if it is true! There can be nothing positive about it other than the occasional discussion about what it’s true definition is; and that is few, and far between discussions in my mind.

    This topic is like Superman’s Kryptonite. I can’t listen live; but I will get to it eventually; no offense Paul, but I really want to hear GWW articulte her beautiful thought pattern on the topic. Like you, she pulls no punches.

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      No offense taken. I am looking forward to her thoughts on this myself.

  • http://www.deanesmay.com Dean Esmay

    Believe it or not, it’s a form of narcissism.

    And/or a desire to have no responsibility at all.

    One should note that there is, on the other hand, a VAST difference between rape fantasy and actually wanting to be raped, as big a difference as between watching a shoot-em-up violent movie and, y’know, ACTUALLY SHOOTING PEOPLE, which anyone who’s done it can tell you isn’t even close to the same thing.

    • TheBiboSez

      There are, of course, a lot more shades of grey (SWIDT) when it comes to rape fantasy and rape-rape.

      1. Experiencing dreams of rape during slumber.

      2. Daydreaming about rape.

      3. Watching theatrical depictions of rape.

      4. Altering one’s patterns of behavior unconsciously in ways that increase the possibility of rape.

      5. Deliberately behaving in ways that encourage rape.

      6. Engaging in BdSm and other rape-ish sexual activities/fetishes.

      7. Participating in hardcore theatrical depictions of rape.

      and so on…

      Ironically, actually wanting to be raped = “consensual rape” = not rape at all.

  • Tawil

    Most female rape fantasies involve being raped by a man the woman desires. Conversely (I’ll wager) actual rape often involves being violated by someone she does not desire at all, or at least not to the extent of wanting to literally enact the fantasy in toto.

    How important this line between fantasy and reality is, one that is little appreciated.

    • OneHundredPercentCotton

      The term for that is “ravished”. I LOVE the thought of being ravished – by a man I want to ravish right back.

      A friend’s husband “ravished” me once with a passionate kiss, and it sucked – it was slobbery and he had bad breath.

      You don’t notice stuff like that when it’s a REAL “ravishing”.

      Rape by some filthy, diseased, mentally ill criminal?

      Are you kidding?

  • Mark

    Rape fantasy? Just more female double-talk. We’re supposed to believe that rape is the most heinous crime imaginable, yet the vast majority of women have fantasized about it happening at least once in their life. To me that’s just another in a long list of reasons why I don’t think male on female rape should be considered among the worst felonies.

    There’s also a blatant double-standard here. Women can admit to fantasizing about being raped without repercussions, but if a man admits to having fantasies about being a rapist, he’s treated as a pervert, deviant, and a likely criminal who should be shunned by everyone who knows him.

  • Codebuster

    This is an important topic, of paradigm-busting significance. Opinions abound, as we’ve seen thus far in the comments. And of course I have my own opinion.

    The common idea of assuming that rape fantasies are confined to fantasies involving men of women’s choosing is nonsensical because by definition, rape is something that is not desired. Surely there must exist a continuum. For example, a prostitute that I interviewed for a book I was working on explained to me that most men left her cold, but it was the grossest, most brutish men that got her off to orgasm. She did not understand this, and it bothered her. There are many contexts that are relevant, especially regarding background, and I got the sense that hers was that of the good girl turned bad… she had some serious demons to grapple with… talk about spooked.

    My opinion? Dump genocentrism, it holds us back. My own theory is that women’s rape fantasies can only be understood in the context of gender roles within culture. Cultural unity is achieved as a kind of tug-of-war between the sexes. There is the cultural known that speaks most directly to the female, and there is the cultural unknown that speaks most directly to the male, and in the context of these opposites, we get cultural evolution. The forbidden is very exciting to women… and very dangerous. My own opinion is that ALL women have within them the capacity to enjoy rape. But of course this does not make rape right. There is something lost/stolen in rape, and just as men have to grapple with moral questions, so too do women. Otto Weininger’s famous thesis that women are inherently amoral while men are moral is not entirely correct. Women also have questions of morality to deal with, and I think that the rape question, relating to the types of men she chooses, is an important part of this. The cultural permissiveness that we observe today, in conjunction with the sexual revolution and our contraceptive technologies, the dumbing down of sex and making it cheap, devoid of that element of the forbidden, making it as mundane as buying a hamburger, point to these questions as to what it is that we’ve lost. I’m pointing to another important thesis of Weininger’s, the relationship that he’s identified between criminality and prostitution.

    For some women, prostitution is thrilling. The stealing into the night, the forbidden… and then they get paid. Imagine getting paid to get your rocks off. But payment implies loss of some kind. So in spite of the thrill, what is it that is being lost or offered up in this kind of transaction? What does Woman’s morality revolve around? This is why getting a propper grip on women’s rape fantasies is so important.

    PUA game, when applied properly and in the right context, works because it taps into and harnesses these elements (eg, danger, the forbidden, etc) of the female psyche.

    I will be particularly interested in GWW’s and TB’s interpretations, given their proclivity to deal with the truth front-on.

  • Jay

    I don’t want to comment about rape, but I will comment on biological reality and feminist misandrist dogma.
    The following is the truth:

    Many, many women get sexual arousal about thinking of a man having full control over them. All women find men who are “men” and not nicely behaved lappies but assertive men who take control and do not ask for permission as sexually arousing..

    This natural and biological reality does not sit well with the misandrist ideology known as feminism. This mainstream form of feminism at its ideological heart is against penis-vagina sex, as it views the penis as a tool of oppression against women. And of course the biological reality of penis-vagina sex which is essential for our species to procreate is just an inconvenient truth for them.

    Hence feminism tends to be against all forms of penis-vagina sex unless it is in a long-term relationship. Hence their moral outrage over sex work and the massive amount of false lies and moral panic over massively inflated numbers of “trafficked women”.

    http://bebopper76.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/exaggerated-statistics-used-in-human-trafficking-research/

    Feminism, on this topic of sex work, has a mountain of falsified research, which is not research at all, but rather anything they can find which ties in with their anti-sex ideology, never mind the reality.

    I urge everyone to point out and fight against all this false research – from sex work, to domestic violence. All this false and fabricated research and lies are driving law changes.

    • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

      @jay

      Ok man, you had to go and say:

      “trafficked women”.

      *TO ALL CONCERNED; TRIGGER ALERT, you have been warned*

      I am a sailor; I have boarded hundreds and hundreds of vessels off Africa and the Middel East looking for these “poor, lost souls!” I know it exists; but what the government won’t tell you is they can’t possibly be looking for them.

      Out of all the vessels I boarded; NONE had slaves. I repeat, NONE HAD SLAVES! Only two ships, in African territorial waters; “might” have been carrying. They may also have just hated us enough to not want to be boarded for whatever else they may, or may not, have been carrying illegally.

      Lets do the math shall we?

      There are approximately 35,000 vessels that are Merchant worthy ships or vessels.

      The averge BS statistic of those tax hoarding feminists is that 27 million woman are sold every year.

      Take 27 million or 27,000,000 women/year and divide by 365 days/year=almost 74,000 (73,972.6 to be more exact)

      If a ship were to carry say.thirty slaves onboard; divide 30/vessel into 27,000,000 women per year=?

      900,000 slave rides per year!

      Now divide that by 35,000=?

      25.714 average risks of boardings per year/vessel around the world per year!

      Now to be honest, it takes a ship a week or two per port to unload, save for oil tankers, which most are corporate owned. First off, they have to unload cargo, then maybe a port visit; followed by taking on cargo.

      Depending on the cargo, and the speed for which it needs to be moved varies. So an oil tanker will be a day, maybe two and off on its way. Even loading oil, which is all done mainly by machines takes hours to load these massive carriers.

      The other types of carriers; well, they take a little longer to unload and load most of them. The other thing is if a vessel is going to carry contraband, be it people, drugs, laundered money, or anything illegal; we are very unlikely to find them. Also, people shoved in containers probably don’t last very long mind you.

      These ships are massive; they have under thirty people on board most of them; and they are only there to maintain the vessel; mostly. Dock crews do the work of loading.

      In all my experience only two vessels did we suspect were carrying people; I don’t deny it happens. However, contrary to stuff in the movies, these people have help and “somehow” know where we are? Both times these vessels stayed close to the shore; less than 3.5 miles off shore which is considered territorial waters.

      I was the engineer alot of times and I really desired to find anything! A bad HVAC reading here, a low oil level there; anything I could find which might lead me to think someone was hiding something. You have to understand; even the intake valves on these shipboard engines are taller than me; and I am almost 6’6! There are so many places to hide; yet most of these peope are well paid; and can bring family onboard. Would you risk your life to run into a guy like me packing a machine gun, side arm, mace, an a whole lot of know how on Jiu Jiutzu; with the desire to use all of it?

      Yeah; maybe not? My ego requires you say yes! Muahahahahahahaha

      Most of these fisherman on smaller vessels are not educated enough to hide people like slaves or terrorists; they would not be there in the first place. They also don’t have the space to hide anything. For oil smugglers it is either oil, or ice for fish. We caught several of these idiots. Trust me; they are not that smart if trying to move thirty people on a Dhow fishing boat! Or less for that matter.

      So back to the math: 35000 going into 74000 would be less than 2.5 people per ship, per day! That is if they left the same day they went somewhere. So in other words; you have maybe half of these vessels are “out to sea” at any given point. That is being generous; it is most likely much less. Also, they are all over the planet. You don’t know if they got something or not.

      What is my point(s)?

      GREAT FRIGGIN QUESTION!

      1. They don’t put too many slaves onboard ships, they have to burn more fuel and oil; therefore time and money delivering people they won’t get much pay on considering the hassle of not just myselfbut unloading, customs, blah, blah, blah, blah.

      2. Africa still sells it’s own children to the Middle East (Dubai and Manama, Bahrain are major hubs for slave labor both child and sex trades!); but these kids parents are the ones knowingly selling them! I say again, these kids parents are the ones knowingly selling them!

      3. Many of these kids make it back, and I am sure they don’t “mantain a relationship” with their parents. I could be wrong? I doubt it though. You get tricked into being pumped for cash you don’t get to keep working over Muslim men and Europeans; and see if you want the grandparents over for Kwanza?

      4. Asia, Latin America, South Asia, the good ol’us of A I am not totally sold ( I think we have “girls next door” suckered by pimps more than actual slaves?), and Europe and Russia put them out as well.

      5. The government agents who do it have to KNOW what they are doing; and have help to get them (read slaves) here and there with the aid of foreign officials in on the scam!

      6. Most of these kids are taken over land as it is cheaper; being told they will get “work” when they get to the place to “pay off their family’s debts.”

      7. If my big, dumb shiny personality actually caught a boat load of slaves; do you think I could write anonymously? Huh? Do ya?

      I don’t think so; Bush or Obama would have had my electricly magnetic good looks in parades from here to Timbucktoo!

      The slave trade all over the world is well funded; and well known to leaders everywhere.

      It was merely an excuse (in my opinion, maybe I’m wrong?) to buy more crap; and expand the debt.

      Tantrum over, and I’m out……….of breath.

      • Jay

        Yes. “Trafficked Women” and its massively inflated numbers is yet another myth of feminists. Add it to male privilege, gender wage gap, patriarchy. The latter three actually have more going for them than the ridiculously false number of trafficked women.

        Check out the link I gave above.

        It is pretty obvious that if we live in a liberal society we should be supporting sex work and removing the stigma associated with sex workers, not painting them out as “victims” which is all misandrist feminists do.

        Rad fems hate penis-vagina sex and view it as “oppression of women” which is why they will make up all sorts of lies, like “trafficked women” to push forth their agenda of unfairly criminalizing men in sex work and denying recognition, kindness and respect for sex workers and the choices that sex workers themselves make.

    • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

      Hahahaha, I stopped at trafficked women! Sorry bro; havng read the rest; I get that, and I agree! The statistics cannot mathimatically be correct! Not possible!

      • bubbajoebob

        JJ, I’m afraid that your annual Trafficking In Persons training is not taking. Please report yourself to the political officer soonest.

    • neely

      “All women find men who are ‘men’ and not nicely behaved lappies but assertive men who take control and do not ask for permission as sexually arousing..”

      There’s nothing that *all* women find sexually arousing. With the sheer number of preferences and fetishes out there I’m genuinely amazed that yours is still a widely-held opinion.

  • dhanu

    When young boys (or men) are raped by their female teachers (or other women), it’s commonly termed as a reward for them that supposedly fulfilled their sexual fantasies. In fact, they’re also considered lucky. Reversing the sexes and discussing about the effect is only natural. If this offends someone but the male victims being raped and laughed at does not, that only shows that that person is a feminist (that is, shows that person’s hypocrisy and double-standards).

    • http://gloriusbastard.com/ JJ

      “thats my boy”

  • Kimski

    This program is guaranteed to become a monolith in the MRA archives, and most certainly a program I will return to more than once.

    The female sexuality, and the obvious cognitive dissonances it entails, has always been a source of constant amazement to me.

    I look forward to be enlightened on the subject, after on a lot of occassions having been asked to ‘pretend’ I raped the one I was dating.

  • TheBiboSez

    This is in response to a comment that Paul made during the early part of the show regarding a woman who during the course of a painful medical foot procedure experienced an orgasm.

    It turns out that in the brain structures (the somatosensory cortex) that process sensation, the area that handles the feet/toes and the area that handles genital sensation are right next to each other, and the theory is that a signal for intense foot stimulation (pain or whatever) can “jump ship” and cross over into the genital sensory processors.

    Here’s a link: http://trueslant.com/daviddisalvo/2010/07/15/in-your-brain-feet-and-sex-are-old-friends/

  • http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

    The article that TDOM wrote in 2010 is being slammed with traffic.

    I have never seen anything like it. Every time I refresh the stats it jumps by 80 hits or so. I thought something was wrong at first (a DOS attack on the site) but I now realise that the server is choking.

    What a delightful problem.

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/legally-obscene/

    • https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Voice-for-Men/102001393188684 Paul Elam

      Yep, the article has been hit over 90,000 times in the last 18 hours.

      • RM1970

        It’s my first time here, I am following this site since may/28, I never like MSM, I never believe their lies, especially the feminist lies. Well I am commenting here to celebrate the ratings, this morning, in Brazil, I hit this site and hit the little RM’s globe, I never saw so many countries (57), cities and page views (845), by the other hand, I can watch the slow death of MSM, here in Brazil the TV’s ratings are lower and lower, and two Big Newspapers stop their printings, they only exist in the web, I am happy.

        • RM1970

          I mean it’s my first time commenting here, it’s my first comment here, I can’t miss the opportunity to point out this rating.

          • Kimski

            Welcome to AVfM.

            I see the same thing happening in Scandinavia, where the most manhating and despicable female blogger is starting to write about men’s issues, after whipping up a total shitstorm of condemning replies from men because of her articles.

            The water in the kettle is starting to boil on a global scale.

      • TigerMan

        There are (alledgedly) approx 72 trillion gallons of water in the pacific ocean – I have no idea what that means. 90,000 hits within one day – that also too big a number for my limited imagination to grasp but I do know one thing – those kind of number defo cause ripples! :)

      • dhanu

        Maybe time to attract some advertisers, publish some ads in famous news outlets targeting businesses detailing the AVfM hit stats and offering low initial prices and 20% free hits to the pioneers, get their support, and spread the MRM?

        Once a few of the brands turn to this and see the competitive advantage, more will follow.

    • RM1970

      I was so happy, commenting here about the today’s ratings that I forgot to compliment the author and everyone who works here. To everybody here, congratulations, your message is reaching the men around the world. I always afraid to comment here about something sad, some tragedy or injustice, I don’t like to whine, but my first comment were about something happy.

  • Cumbria

    I was wondering what had happened! I looked at the little map very early this morning and there were 59 countries and nearly 500 cities!!! I couldn’t believe my eyes. I guess God (or whatever power you may believe in) wanted people to know about this site. Who would have thought that a long tucked away article would bring so much attention to the site and the cause. Fantastic!!

    • RM1970

      It’s wonderful, to be exact, there were 545 cities when I hit, 8: 00 AM in São Paulo Brazil, I wondering if the message hit some sort of critical mass and start a chain reaction, it’s early to decide what happend, but it’s so good.

  • RM1970

    @ Kimsk I don’t know the men’s situation in Scandivavia, I read it’s not good, here in Brazil we have many problems, the main stream media is overwhelming feminist, as well the courts, I am familiar with that because I am lawyer, so marriage in Brazil is too risky, but we can see a very small MRM begining. I cite AVfM in my comments in the web, in the YouTube, it’s little, but I am doing something.The situation here is so bad we can’t openly talk about men’s issues, we have to be clever to start talk about it, not everybody accept it, could get you in trouble, they were brainwashed, by brazilian MSM.

    • Kimski

      I hear you, brother, and I wish you the best of luck with penetrating the armor of ignorance.

      The situation in Scandinavia is the same as in every other country on the planet. Feminism can only be compared to the black plague in number of victims.

      • RM1970

        I think the men’s situation is bad in whole western world, the men took more than two and a half thousand years to built a free, rich, high-tech, safe society and the feminism is ruining it in a couple generations. I compare feminism to the neutron bomb, destroy the life and spare the property. They try to destroy the men, but without men they can keep our society working? I don’t think so. I wish you the same, the best of luck to pierce the ideological shield, my brother.

  • TigerMan

    What I heard of the show was great but I really have to stop behaving like a schoolbrat in the text chat – I was one of the oldest there as well. :(
    ps I downloaded show so will listen to all later.

  • yinyangbalance

    I missed the show. Where is it available now thats its already aired?

    I’d like to say thanks for daring to touch on a taboo subject. Also I think its unfortunate, as much as I respect GWW, that men are not allowed to talk about this without a woman in the discussion to be ‘safe’. Its an off limits subject amongst men in general for we fear being labeled rapists for even talking about it. I have brought this up with my buddies before and I get an immediate negative reaction like I’m a rapist or something. I merely want to openly talk about the thing that I have noticed women like in the bedroom with me.

    I have read “my secret garden” and its full of what I would think of as disturbing fantasies. I was appalled to discover that my wife was really into that (when we were married). I told her it disgusted me. Over the years I better understood what it was my ex wanted, so I incorporated some things that are reminiscent of rape into my sex life after divorce, like hair grabbing and binding their wrists one handed and it has helped my sex life tremendously. Why is that? I can only guess, and I have my theories but its just a fact that when I toy with certain “rape” behavior with the women I date it turns them on and they wont stop calling me back afterwards. It sort of distrurbs me. The only thing that keeps me going is that besides all that there was attraction there between us to begin with. I can work with that. But the thought of having sex with a woman that doesnt want to have sex with me is a BIG turn off for me. I just can’t do it, seriously I can’t get it up if I see a woman suffering. So in the bedroom I am firm but I dont like to hurt at all, binding, holding, hair pulling, spanking and nibbling is as far I am willing to go. It turns me on when they are turned on….but some of those things in My Secret Garden, even if they are turned on about it, is a turnoff for me.

    • yinyangbalance

      Oh oops never mind I found the link to listen. I will listen to it tomorrow. Thanks again!